Hollywood casting director says "Don't come out"

She’s just as modest as you’d expect

[quote]Then there was the time I was seated next to Bea on a flight to Vancouver and she told me Betty White was a cunt.

I used to work at a newspaper, the typos in this article are sloppy

#17 he says Gary Cole is the most underrated actor in Hollywood, but didn't make him happen!

He was right - don't come out. Coming out will change your voice into some effy gay voice, and the audience don't like it.

RETIRED Hollywood casting director says "Don't come out".

[quote] Recently, we sat down with Joel Thurm, a retired casting director has worked on Hollywood films, Broadway, and classic TV for over three decades!

Joel has some great stories to share from back in the days. His opinion of "don't come out" is based on his active days in the business. He has since retired.

[quote] How has the act of casting changed since you became involved?

[quote] Joel: From what I can tell, there are far fewer in-person readings and meetings, and a lot more people are putting themselves on tape now. It's a shame because there used to be meetings with agents and managers where they would introduce a new client to us, but I don't think that happens as much now.

This shows that he doesn't like change. The rules of "don't come out" applied to his time in the business, not so much nowadays.

[quote] I do think things are changing though – do you know who Jonathan Bailey is, for instance?

[quote] Joel: No.

To quote Bea Arthur: CUNT!

I wouldn't come out if I was an actor, I would try to keep my life private which I realize would be hard in the days of everybody filming you with their phones. I have had actors ruined for me because of dumb stuff they say, it's better to keep it as close to the vest as possible.

I wouldn't be surprised that he's a Datalounger, as I had read this about Bette White and Bea Arthur's feud verbatim in one of the older threads years ago:

[quote] Joel: Well the thing is, Bea and Betty did not get along – well, Betty didn't have any undue hard feelings about Bea, but Bea did not like Betty for several reasons. Bea was a "real actor", so to speak. She needed to prepare and when you broke her concentration, she went out of it. Betty was not that kind of actor. I don't know what her training was, but she was a TV personality first and then she became an actor. They clashed in terms of methods, I think. And yeah, during the flight we chatted, and Bea referred to Betty as a cunt. It's important to note, however, that regardless of how Bea felt about Betty personally, it never ever, ever interfered with the show or surfaced during production.

*Betty White ^

Seems like a petty reason to call someone a cunt - you don’t like her “acting methods.” It’s a fucking sitcom, not Madea.

People tried to act like Betty was so endearing at the end of her life but I wasn't crazy about her, just like I didn't care that much for Lucy. I often think comedians are bitter people who cover it with a laugh.

I mean, he wasn't saying that no film actor should come out. He's speaking specifically about leading man types. Unfortunately, as outdated as it seems, he may still be right about that, though I think we're on the cusp of that changing.

But he was correct about Jonathan Bailey's part in Wicked.

I’ve always had the hots for Joaquin Phoenix. I like his personality quite a bit too

Travolta must have followed his advice

The problem is there are so few openly gay male actors who are conventionally masculine or are not stereotypically gay. Such men cannot convincingly play a leading man, romantic lead, most superheroes, or action star. It’s sad, but a man with stereotypically gay mannerisms and attributes is inconsistent with playing those major roles.

the bisexuals, who r the majority of the human beings r ashamed of their same-sex desires, whenever they hear gay, they feel the shame, they will never go see any movie with a gay lead

[quote][The cast of Grease] were all chosen because they all looked approximately the same age. Nobody stood out as being terribly older or younger.

Fact check!

[quote] The problem is there are so few openly gay male actors who are conventionally masculine or are not stereotypically gay. Such men cannot convincingly play a leading man, romantic lead, most superheroes, or action star. It’s sad, but a man with stereotypically gay mannerisms and attributes is inconsistent with playing those major roles.

A stereotypical homophobic argument about stereotypical gay mannerisms. How stereotypical.

Look at Billy Eichner and Bros. He was the leading character and had a romantic plot line. The problem for me wasn't that he was too gay acting. He was just boring.

“Suspension of disbelief”? He means “suspension of belief”, although he doesn’t know it.

He’s not quite as clever as he thinks that he is and whoever edited that article should be fired.

R21, I fully agree with your second statement. However...

Yeah the thinking is normally this idea is unbelievable but this time I can accept it.

Luke Evans came out as a gay bottom in the uk and went back in the closet when he got himself a US agent . He even posed with a beard and described what he likes in a women in Marie Claire magazine, but the internet is forever and datalounge went in a uproar with thousands of threads about it after they discovered his previous interview on his sexuality which spread throughout social media and wide that he had come out again. Tom hardy was much more luckier and his PR team smarter even though he was also way more open in the uk .

r20, I believe the problem with Bros. was that it was pushed to be a mainstream hit when it should've been a gay themed indie feature with a much, much smaller budget. It was a bad decision to push for a theater release so close after a pandemic, but I guess it was an attempt to get "The Gays" back into the theaters, and it didn't meet the mainstream movie studio's expectations (Eichner's social media rant didn't help either).

Did he talk to Bradley Cooper?

R25- bros should be a sitcom at best, it was so boring, 20 million on that, wtf

wasn't there an interview about a gay actor who was told he was too straight acting to play gay

R22 - thanks, I stand corrected, although I still can’t get my head around suspending disbelief. My problem, though, and I’ve learned something new today.

Was there ever a case where an actor came out for the sake of his career?

A celebrity coming it out is usually because of either mental distress or, more likely, to get ahead of being outed (like an exposé from a magazine).

I agree that DiCaprio and Winslet had no chemistry together.

Did NPH come out because he was about to be outed? I can't remember.

Is he saying that Joaquin is gay? Cos we don't want him.

OMFG the cast of Grease looked like they were in their late 30s to late 40s.

[quote] Did NPH come out because he was about to be outed? I can't remember.

IIRC his agent claimed that he was straight and NPH came out to set the record straight, so to speak.

R33 Yes, doofus. Every man in history is a homo. That is what he is saying.

R35 NPH was going to be outed by that asshole Perez Hilton as I recall, and wanted to get ahead of it.

I love John Travolta and especially loved him in Urban Cowboy. I don't know if he's gay or not and I don't care, he's a great actor. I think what comes through in his performances is HIM. I'm glad to know that he really is a nice man. Joachim Phoenix is like that for me also. He's just totally believable in whatever he does ( except that stupid movie he did with Casey Affleck). I think what Billy Eichner did with Bros took guts, even though the movie didn't do well.

Besides all the cast looking middle aged in Grease. Travolta gave his gayest performance ever in that role. No girl thought for a second he was a breeder. And there asre literally hundreds of stories of Travolta being with men. Cruising for men. Being caught with men. Get with it, ya dumb frau.

R7, if you were a straight actor who was married to a woman would you pretend your wife is just your "roommate"

R39, all the girls at my school had a crush on Travolta in Grease. And, yes, they did assume he was a "breeder"

R41 Those same morons prolly also wet their panties over George Michael or Liberace. Girls ain't too bright.

R42, more likely, fans only care what the male celeb says rather than what he actually does. As long as he himself doesn't puncture the fantasy, all is good.

Homophobes in this thread. SMH

DL fave Beverly D’Angelo was almost cast as Rizzo??!? I would have loved to have seen that - how different would her career have been?

I can't even watch Grease as he is so fucking gay/effeminate. I can't believe for a second this 40 year old dude is in love with 45 year old looking Olivia.

My God how ancient is this queen that he doesn’t know who Jonathan Bailey is? Casting people are supposed to know EVERYONE.

Joel Thurm doesn't cast anymore. He's been retired for a while.

“ I think, for some reason, you can be a female movie star and be an out lesbian... Probably because straight men find lesbians "interesting". However, there is not one single out gay movie star. Television, yes, you have people like Matt Bomer and Neil Patrick Harris (although he grew up in front of our eyes, so he doesn't count). But name me one out gay movie star in feature films ever. There is none! I think the closest we ever got was Richard Chamberlain, but he came out after a certain point when his career was kind of over. I think it's because of the tremendous amount of money involved in feature films, and the suspension of disbelief. That disbelief totally disappears on stage, but it doesn't translate to movies. I guess I would urge, if you are a handsome leading man on track to becoming a movie star, keep it to yourself. Do not come out.”

The person dates himself terribly, movie stars don’t exist anymore. What he is saying is not incorrect, but it’s from an era that ended maybe in the early aughts with the rise of prestige cable drama, when there was still a marked delineation between movie and tv actors. This world hasn’t existed for almost twenty years. That’s why his “name one out gay movie star in feature films ever” rings hollow and cruel.

R49, so who is the big gay male star in the current version of Hollywood?

It’s no surprise that he’s gay and says things like this because gay men in power or these kinds of positions are very bad. Very dangerous.

*not

Older gay men seem to really cling to the closet.

From his POV it’s a defense mechanism for guilt from an unfair system that he helped to perpetuate

[quote]From his POV it’s a defense mechanism for guilt from an unfair system that he helped to perpetuate

Unfortunately, older gay men project this shit onto younger gays filling their heads with fear and despair. Hopefully this dies with boomers and older Gen X.

[quote]wasn't there an interview about a gay actor who was told he was too straight acting to play gay

John Barrowman when he auditioned for WILL & GRACE, so they went with Eric McCormack, instead.

That being said, I think most actors who can pass well in straight roles will continue to stay closeted until the reach a point in their careers they are comfortable with

For example Pedro Pascal appears to be coming out to now that the first season on Last of Us is complete and Hollywood is embracing him as a celebrity

Would he have gotten to this point if he had come out during Narcos? Unlikely.

On the other side of the coin, Richard Madden appeared to be coming out a few years ago and got major roles in Eternals and Citadel; however the first film was greeted with indifference and the tv shows looks to be the same. Perhaps he would have opened himself up to richer character roles if he had come out during Bodyguard instead of these generic blockbusters.

[quote]Is he saying that Joaquin is gay? Cos we don't want him.

No. That he's the most difficult actor in Hollywood, because he doesn't like to play the game. It's been like pulling teeth with him to get him to do interviews and the talk show circuit to promote his movies. Nevertheless, the casting director said that Joaquin is a nice guy whom he's known since he was 8 years old.

Actors didn't come out in the past because guys like this one never casted them.

Right now an actor can come out and have a good career and there are a lot of examples of that.

Can an actor come out and be a lead male on films? Probably not, but it's almost the same for straight actors. The youngest actors that can carry a film an put people in the sits are all over 40

Muriel, can you please put an automatic ban on anyone who uses the term "casted?"

Or at least charge them triple to post.

[quote]Actors didn't come out in the past because guys like this one never casted them.

Yep. I’m curious how many gays ruined the careers of other gays in this field. Seems gay men dominate the “casting director” field, unfortunately.

Casting is like 90% white women.

[quote]The problem is there are so few openly gay male actors who are conventionally masculine or are not stereotypically gay.

I never would have guessed that Ben Aldridge was gay when I first saw him in Pennyworth. We'll see what happens to his career now that's he flung the closet door wide open.

There was another gay gatekeeper who told that Colton Haynes to stay in the closet, as well as with another actor who’s name escapes me. I think the best option is for gay actors to avoid gay gatekeepers.

*whose

Yeah, coming out has done wonders for Colton Haynes' career.

The point is these gay Nazi assholes telling these gay men to stay closeted.

R66 Coming out had zero effects on Colton's career. It were other problems what halted him (and he was in Arrow as regular after coming out)

R63 He seems to be doing fine, although he’s mostly been playing gay characters since. And now that I know he’s gay, it seems very obvious.

Aldridge is british, coming out seems way less problematic for them. There are a good bunch of openly gay british actors who get constant work.

Generally what makes the difference is how good the actor is and how easy is to work with him. A good actor who is not a spoiled diva generally gets work (specially if he is stablished before coming out).

The problem with coming out very young is they don't get the opportunity to show they have range but that happens a lot to straight actors too when they gpt famous very soon

[quote]He seems to be doing fine, although he’s mostly been playing gay characters since.

That sort of confirms the casting director's point.

I understand what he is saying about leading men not coming out to protect their careers.

Some leading men or heartthrobs have done it right in my opinion and some have done it wrong and raised questions rather than silencing them.

Hugh Jackman has done it right. Got married so he has decoy and he can live his other life privately. She was attractive when they got married. No incessant photo ops or interviews. No TMI or over-the-top PDA. He trots her out quarterly and proclaims his love for her. That's it. Well done, Hugh!

Tom Selleck has also done it right. Very lowkey and private.

Leo has gone a bit overboard with the young models but his PR campaign has successfully ingrained in the public's mind that he likes young women so mission accomplished. He always has a decoy in place.

Tommy Cruise did it right with Nicole, not too over-the-top. But he went off the rails with Katie. Everything was excessive. Constant PDA, constant interviews giving too much information, couch jumping, very public wedding. It just screamed hiding something and desperate to prove he's straight.

Clooney did a half-assed job for many years with the beards on two-year rotations. His good looks worked in his favor deflecting from the lack of chemistry with the questionable beards. Then he went off the rails like Cruise. Relentless articles, interviews and photos about the marital beard. Incessant PDA, minutiae details of the "relationship", very public wedding with tacky Kardashian style People magazine spread. All this and yet zero chemistry with the beard. He definitely was trying to get in front of something by being so loud about it. Low key and private would have invited less questions and commentary about his sexuality.

R71 True. But I got the impression that Aldridge wants to primarily play gay characters anyway, so it could just be the roles he’s going after.

Thank you r60. It’s a travesty!

[quote]Joel thinks that Gary Cole is the most underrated actor in Hollywood.

Certainly one of, because I think he's great. I love him.

The two romantic male leads of Bridgerton are gay, Rege-Jean Page and Jonathan Bailey. Women eat that show up with a spoon.

I love Gary Cole too, stunningly sharp bone structure as he ages. At least now we know Gary is straighter than an arrow I suppose.

Gary Cole was one of the best things about Veep.

r76 are you sure. I hear Rege dates women.

RJP is not gay.

[quote] I hear Rege dates women.

Homely looking ones, at that.

The point is a gay actor, like heterosexual actor, has to be credible as a masculine character and persona, if Trey want Dwayne Johnson caliber A list roles. More than ever, superhero, anime , action, and dudebros roles predominate amongst the big roles. With limited exceptions, you need a certain type of actor to pull these offs. There are gay men who can, but mostly openly gay actors so far cannot.

R72, do you think Keanu is gay and, if so, has he done a good job keeping it under wraps in your opinion?

He’s not

Now that it's progressive to demand that everyone is cast along their irl sexual orientation, I expect it becomes a real consideration again. Who wants to restrict himself that way?

Yeah I think he should've expanded more about why closeted actors shouldn't come out. But there is a lot of experience and wisdom in that advice, and it should be respected. Even though it's not a nice truth, it's an honest fact about the industry and audiences. Look at what happened to Bros and The Real Friends of WeHo the past year, most gay guys didn't even give them a chance and denounced them the second they were promoted. People in the industry are watching these reactions, and the only thing execs care about, gay, straight, or ally, is money.

And international audiences are even harsher

[quote]But there is a lot of experience and wisdom in that advice, and it should be respected.

No way.

The guy who he and his boyfriend saw, and that he approached was Eric Roberts.

Foul-mouthed R10 can't spell 'Medea'.

R85, except the vast majority of gay roles AND straight leading man roles still go to straight actors. So much for progressiveness

[quote] She ended up coming in and reading, but she wasn't right for the part. Anyway, then she goes, "when you want to start?" The producers were so embarrassed, but they more or less initiated it!

Huh?

Another story about Bea Arthur calling Betty a cunt.

Of course gays and the SJWs think that Hollywood is the only profession in life and if Hollywood is fixed, all of society’s troubles are over. lol. Hollywood is a business. It’s not for everyone.

[quote] I used to work at a newspaper, the typos in this article are sloppy

Examples?

[quote] My God how ancient is this queen that he doesn’t know who Jonathan Bailey is

99.9% of people have never heard of him.

Jonathan Bailey is extremely effeminate.

Jonathan Bailey isn’t a lead and Wicked will bomb.

The two leads are the two witches. Everyone else is supporting.

I can’t take anybody seriously who claims that John Travolta and Olivia Newton John had the best onscreen chemistry in the history of film. If this queen wants to talk about too gay, Grease feels like it was made by a team of gay aliens to explain to the concept of heterosexuality to the residents of their home planet.

[quote] Grease feels like it was made by a team of gay aliens to explain to the concept of heterosexuality to the residents of their home planet.

Been on here twenty years and this is one of the most beautifully bitchy things I have read here. Will be stealing it.

R100, and yet heterosexuals love it. My nieces love it and they weren't even born when the movie was released

Everyone loves Grease. It's a terrifically fun movie.

r11 Did you know Betty personally. How the fuck would you know if she was endearing or not?

r100's post is one of the greatest commments ever made, in any format. Thank you.

Ryan Gosling was cast as Ken and not Matt Boomer?

Luke Evans and Lee Pace came out, where are they now? They were doing great before that, specially Luke.

Grease is simplistic mush.

I felt that way when the movie first came out and still feel that way now.

I wouldn't come out. I'd do want I like discreetly and let them gossip. A fabulous actor doesn't owe anyone anything, least of all the intimate details of their private life. It's a choice now of course, but I always liked to keep my work life and private life separate. I was in a business where it didn't matter though. Advertising, so many gays in advertising. It's a fun field. It was anyway, when I was in it, I'm retired now. Got a little crazy at the end when everything went digital. Easier in so many ways, too.

I worked with gay men who blabbed all the details, and some who said nothing. One in particular, a dear friend who simply never mentioned his private life. He didn't have to tell me though, when we socialized it was with his gay friends. He died of aids in the early 1990s. Such a loss, I lost so many friends then.

Just declaring Phylicia Rashad to be one of the "nicest" people in Hollywood has completely destroyed his credibility.

"Luke Evans and Lee Pace came out, where are they now? They were doing great before that, specially Luke."

Didn't he get cast in stuff like The Alienist and Beauty and the Beast AFTER coming out?

"A fabulous actor doesn't owe anyone anything, least of all the intimate details of their private life."

Merely stating your orientation is not the same thing as going on and on about the intimate details of your private life. Straight stars don't hide their spouses.

[quote] Luke Evans and Lee Pace came out, where are they now? They were doing great before that, specially Luke.

Luke has the same career now as he had before he came out. He's been a B-lister who got lucky to be in a franchise in which he was not the star. Lee never had much of a career outside the Lord of the Rings movies, so once that franchise was over, so was he. He works when he can, has a fan base that is tied to the fans of LOTR and that's about it. You can say the same thing for Elijah Wood, and he hasn't come out. Where's his career?

Always a shame when you hear stories about gay actors being told to stay in the closet

Lee Pace is one of the sexiest men alive.

When was the last time Matt Dallas actually had an acting role?

Travolta had great chemistry with Winger in Urban Cowboy.

Bailey had great chemistry with his love interest in Bridgerton. I had no idea he was gay in real life.

See I told people not to come out years ago and you all mocked me. Faggotts!

[quote] When was the last time Matt Dallas actually had an acting role?

Every YouTube video when he pretends to be in a happy marriage with Blue.

The thing is that anyone, celebrity or regular person, should only come out for his own mental health (because the pressure to keep it a secret is crushing him mentally). I find the casting director's comment rather sad to put career, money (and social status?) over your mental health. No matter how successful and rich you are, it's not going to mean much when your mental health is at its lowest (despite all the physical and mental treatment you get, making you worry it will come out that you are seeking treatment).

Stick ur mental health up your poon.

^ We tried sticking it up yours but it kept on falling out.

Too clever. Fuck off with your lame psychology. "I can't come out if it affects my mental health". Good fucking queef. Oprah watching frau garbage.

Young women these days don't care if an actor is gay, as long as he's attractive. What they find attractive is not always the same thing most gay men do, but they won't care if he's out as long as he's their fantasy type.

[Quote] There was another gay gatekeeper who told that Colton Haynes to stay in the closet, as well as with another actor who’s name escapes me. I think the best option is for gay actors to avoid gay gatekeepers.

Wasn't that Podwall?

[Quote] Yeah, coming out has done wonders for Colton Haynes' career.

I think it's about the same. He wasn't ever going to be an a-lister doing blockbusters.

[Quote] Now that it's progressive to demand that everyone is cast along their irl sexual orientation, I expect it becomes a real consideration again. Who wants to restrict himself that way?

And actors who are gay/bi but keep their relationships private can also get backlash for lying or faking it.

Back in the early 80s when I told a straight roommate that Travolta was gay and everyone knew it, she accused me of "wishful thinking."

That accusation is made by straight people and their quislings even to this day.

R125 I really think it depends on the celebrity. Rabid stans who claim someone is gay or bi based on the most minuscule thing will get laughed at.

Very interesting article actually considering it's BuzzFeed.

Real shame about his advice not to come out. I love that he seems to know nothing about Bailey getting cast in Wicked but immediately identifies he is in talks for Fiyero since the role is not really main and somewhat campy.

The really interesting part for me was that the casting couch is apparently still alive and well. That story about the actress giving blowjobs to producers was disturbing as fuck. It makes me glad that he's observing more people putting themselves on tape in lieu of in-person meetings/auditions.

It must be difficult to demand a blowjob from a pre-recorded video.

It's one thing to not publicly state your preferences, and keep all your dating life as private as you can so you can have the career that you do, but when it comes to fabricating lies about being straight and having beards, that's more than just ' not coming out ' that is just straight up bullshit, and I hope your ass gets busted in a leaked gay sex tape.

[Quote] The really interesting part for me was that the casting couch is apparently still alive and well.

I can't believe some people legitimately think it doesn't happen anymore.

r129, how can it still happen when the only guy who ever did it, Harvey Weinstein, was caught and thrown in prison?

R29, Simplified:

The movie begins. You say, "Hey, that's Tom Hanks!" Or maybe, "That movie set looks impressive!"

However, somewhere along the line you stop saying these things. You think in terms of the film's world, that you really are looking at the center of the Earth, or Arakis, or Graceland. And that you care about what happens to the explorers, or Paul Atreides, or Elvis.

You entered the theater aware that it is not your real world you will be watching. YOU ARE AWARE OF YOUR DISBELIEF.

But then, then you are swept into the world on the screen, and YOU BELIEVE. You care, you empathize, you feel. How? Why? BECAUSE YOU HAVE UNCONSCIOUSLY PUT ASIDE---SUSPENDED---YOUR DISBELIEF.

I thought the interview was fantastic. He has clearly done a lot in Hollywood and he knows his stuff. He was witty and just the right amount of vulgarity.

But of course, all the frau and wanna-be frau gays are clutching their pearls in the comments.

R129. I guess what threw me wasn't that it still happens, Weinstein was neither the beginning nor the end of that grotesque practice.

But what's shocking is that it's SO blatant. It's disgusting enough to invite someone up to your hotel room for a drink and start jacking off.

But it's horrific that this actress was scheduled to be auditioned at the end of the day by TWO producers because they wanted to have enough time for their blowjobs. And that they then had the gall to question why she was moved to the middle of the list because it meant there wouldn't be time.

And THEN, with this guy IN THE ROOM, she just openly asks when she is supposed to start sucking them off completely unprompted. As casually as if she was asking to get them a coffee.

Revolting.

the homophobic guys can not stop thinking about gay sex

Thurm is 80, which is the age of mentality of a lot of DLers. Anyway, he admits something that a lot of DLers cannot RE: the casting couch:

"I think [the casting couch is] probably more common on a lower level with sleazier agents – I'll represent you, but you gotta blow me first. I could see that happening. Obviously with someone like Harvey Weinstein that happened at a higher level. I don't know, my thought is still that it's mostly at the lower level."

It's mostly not a thing amongst most big Hollywood stars.

Anyway, he really hates Richard O'Brien!

r133, what I find appalling that these two producers were likely those who'd belittle and demean an openly gay producer, director, or casting agent using his power to fuck a guy in exchange for being cast (suitable for the role or not). A lot of gay men in Hollywood with some power were terrified of such a reaction from their straight peers, and discriminated against their fellow gay men as a result.

Sorry, I meant that the gays in power feared that their straight peers would assume that the Gays would do it even if they don't do the casting couch thing.

OMFG one of the Ewoks just died. Imma heartbroken.

R42 it is unfair of you to say that girls are stupid. Young George Michael or John Travolta were not obviously gay. They had mainstream voices and mannerism. Maybe someone with a good gaydar could have had their doubts (Boy George said that he had known about George Michael the moment he laid his eyes on him) but for average person, not only a young girl, they looked like any other straight guy.

"I think the closest we ever got was Richard Chamberlain, but he came out after a certain point when his career was kind of over."

R49 He was deeply in the closet while women were drooling over him in the time he was playing that sexy priest. Wasn't he the most desirable bachelor or something in that era.

R139 It's not girls fault they are stupid. It is the estrogen. Girls are cursed by biology. Anyone with two eyes could see Travolta and George Michaels were super gay. They farted rainbows wherever they went.

"It’s no surprise that he’s gay and says things like this because gay men in power or these kinds of positions are very bad. "

I just think that he is a businessman in the first place, before being gay and he knows that in the homophobic Hollywood the career of an ambitious and promising actor would be over in a heartbeat if he came out.

R133 it's disgusting and i wouldn't last a day in Hollywood.

R135 it's obvious when you look at some of the lpsg threads about certain c-list actors.

Is the interviewer AI?

A gay man giving career advice isn’t the same as him wanting gay men to stay in the closet. What he said is true. Come out if you want, but, do it with the understanding it may limit some of your career potential. He is acknowledging it, not endorsing it.

[quote]Back in the early 80s when I told a straight roommate that Travolta was gay and everyone knew it, she accused me of "wishful thinking."

I have straight women friends who still don't believe Travolta is gay.

[quote] Come out if you want, but, do it with the understanding it may limit some of your career potential.

Except he didn’t say it like that. You are giving him nuance when he doesn’t deserve it. Without the nuance you are just perpetuating the worst of the homophobia.

For example if you are of his black and white mindset you wouldn’t have actors like Hunter Doohan coming out right after Wednesday because a monster hit and getting signed by William Morris.

He really is a terrible person.

R147 I guess I am going to have to trust the words of an extremely successful, gay, casting director over some pearl clutching woke scolder.

R6 But name me ONE out gay movie star in feature films ever.

[quote] Hugh Jackman has done it right. Got married so he has decoy and he can live his other life privately. She was attractive when they got married. No incessant photo ops or interviews. No TMI or over-the-top PDA.

Recently that's been true, but not originally. They used to talk to the press about the sex they said they had (including in his Wolverine costume).

[quote]But name me ONE out gay movie star in feature films ever.

Ahem.

He comes across as a vulgarian.

Ian McKellan is not a movie star. He's never opened a film. He's been in franchises as a supporting actor.

Also, Sir Ian is a senior citizen so no one really cares.

[quote]He's never opened a film

Again this line of thinking is from a bygone era. Actors don't open movies anymore. Intellectual property and branding opens movies. So arguing that an openly gay actor hasn't opened a movie is a road to nowhere because an actor could not be openly gay at a time when actors could open movies, which was twenty-thirty years ago.

[quote] Again this line of thinking is from a bygone era. Actors don't open movies anymore. Intellectual property and branding opens movies. So arguing that an openly gay actor hasn't opened a movie is a road to nowhere because an actor could not be openly gay at a time when actors could open movies, which was twenty-thirty years ago.

Don't be dim. Ian McKellen is not a newly minted famous actor. He's been well known for over 40 years and his heyday in film happened during the time when actors did open films. He's been openly gay since 1988 and his franchise films all happened more than a decade ago.

[quote]And he's gay, too

He's also 700 years old.

Ian McKellan’s hit movies were intellectual property movies XMen and LOTR. Iam McKellan is a forerunner of what we have now where an out gay actor can be part of an ensemble of a big IP film (ie Bailey in Wicked.)

When you say “an actor can open a film” this is basically like 90s/00s thinking where you have someone say “Let’s put Meg Ryan and Russell Crowe in a movie together”. That world does not exist anymore. ACTOR A + ACTOR B movies are only getting made at the streaming level ie Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson’s entire career now is basically financed by Apple.

[quote] I find the casting director's comment rather sad to put career, money (and social status?) over your mental health. No matter how successful and rich you are, it's not going to mean much when your mental health is at its lowest (despite all the physical and mental treatment you get, making you worry it will come out that you are seeking treatment).

Then the simple answer is don't go into the movie business. People expect certain worlds to bend and meet then where they are instead of realizing that maybe they are just not made to be in that world. I am sure denying your sexuality is on a long list of things most movie stars have to compartmentalize when it comes to getting where they want. Some of them would go crazy IF they didn't become a star - denying family, denying sexuality, denying your true slutty character, you extreme religious, political beliefs, denying your abusive past.

[quote] When you say “an actor can open a film” this is basically like 90s/00s thinking where you have someone say “Let’s put Meg Ryan and Russell Crowe in a movie together”. That world does not exist anymore. ACTOR A + ACTOR B movies are only getting made at the streaming level ie Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson’s entire career now is basically financed by Apple.

Again, who cares? This particular conversation was not about what is going on right now, so why are you insisting on trying to fit it into your narrative. The question was asked- name me one out movie star in films *ever.* And someone mentioned Ian McKellen. Ian is a film actor who happened to play a couple of supporting roles in some very big franchise film series. That does not make him a movie star. That makes him a working actor. And those movies ALL came out prior to the rise of streamers and collapse of the box office. McKellen has never had the clout to either open a movie or get a movie financed on the strength of his name. That is what a movie star is.

"But of course, all the frau and wanna-be frau gays are clutching their pearls in the comments."

You're clutching your pearls over people criticizing this guy. Who cares, people are allowed to criticize other people. Maybe you're closeted so you can relate to a guy telling people to stay in the closet

"I guess I am going to have to trust the words of an extremely successful, gay, casting director over some pearl clutching woke scolder."

A guy who hasn't worked in years. Using woke as a pejorative gives you away as a Fox News viewer.

At the moment I think Luke Macfarlane has probably had the most success as an openly gay leading man, and most of that was on the Hallmark Channel. Aldridge and Bailey might outdo him in a few years. As much as Neil Patrick Harris would like to believe he can open a project as a leading man, he can't. Matt Bomer might have been able to, but he dropped about 95% of his masculine behaviors when he officially came out and instead became very soft spoken and delicate-seeming, which works for neither romantic leads nor action roles.

I fail to see how Bomer is more "delicate seeming" than Tim o' Tay or Bradley Cooper or whoever

[quote] I fail to see how Bomer is more "delicate seeming" than Tim o' Tay or Bradley Cooper or whoever

Is your vision like 20/200?

He could play a Disney princess at this point

R165 Aldridge has started to act more feminine too. He’ll probably go in the same direction as Bomer.

Come on R167, Tim o'Tay seems manly to you?

This casting director is a million years old, and he reads like it.

In an age of “only gay actors should play gay,” they’ve been also relegated to only gay roles

R152 Ian was never a mainstream movie star. Movie stars have universal appeal - think Margot Robbie or Chris Hemsworth. They are idolized which means that straight men and lesbians want to be like them and gays and straight women want to be with them…..

R167, no, but yours probably is

R172, except straight actors still play most gay roles. Try again

R173, Margot Robbie is box office poison and Hemsworth cannot open a movie outside of the Thor franchise

[quote] They are idolized which means that straight men and lesbians want to be like them and gays and straight women want to be with them…..

R173, you sound like you're from circa 1978-1995. None of these cliches about stars are true anymore, because stars as we knew them don't exist. This is no longer a movie culture. People barely go to the movies anymore, as in go to a theatre.

Being gay and coming out is a dead issue.

There is a movie culture, Avatar made like $700 million in the US alone

Avatar does not a movie culture make, R178.

[Quote] [R172], except straight actors still play most gay roles. Try again

But openly gay actors only get to play gay roles

r180, that isn't true at all. On Lifetime and Hallmark openly gay actors play straight characters usually falling in love with the female lead. As is already mentioned Jonathan Bailey on Netflix's Bridgerton.

What may have been true in the past isn't true these days.

Avatar was a hit because movie culture is all IP now. The highest domestic grossing film not based on existing intellectual property or brand (I’m counting Elvis as a brand) last year was #14 “Nope” which did not have any big stars. The next highest grossing was #16 Smile. #17 and #18 The Lost City and Bullet Train are the highest grossing non-IP films sold solely on star power. Ergo, movie stardom is dead.

R180, that's the way it's always been. Try to keep up

You watch Lifetime and Hallmark movies, R181?

Matt Bomer was always soft-spoken and delicate seeming.

[quote] You watch Lifetime and Hallmark movies, [R181]?

Is that your way of saying: My statement at r180 was completely wrong?

No, I'm asking if you watch Lifetime and Hallmark movies, R186. Quite apart from the subject at hand.

Jonathan Bailey and Ben Aldridge basically only play gay characters anyway, aside from Bailey’s Bridgerton role, R165. They’re no different than Bomer.

Bailey has mostly played straight characters, actually

[quote] Quite apart from the subject at hand.

It is indeed. And yes, I do watch the occasional Lifetime or Hallmark movie.

I would love it if Jonny Bailey would play the gay character who fucks me in the mouth until the white stuff flows out of each of us.

Aren't lots of leading men "soft spoken"......Johnny Depp and Leonardo DiCaprio don't exactly have loud, booming voices. Neither does Tom Cruise but that didn't stop Top Gun from making a billion dollars or whatever

R189 Well, Aldridge at least has basically only played gay characters since coming out. And Jonny’s going to be in that movie with Bomer, which will probably push him more toward gay roles anyway.

Bailey is playing straight in Wicked

This guy's on to something.

Apart from some of the names mentioned, this thread feels like DL circa 1994.

Does Fiyero really count as straight?

Hold me Matt. I'm scared.

Which Ben are you R198? There's more than one openly gay Ben in Hollywood and I'm guessing a LOT more who are transparently closeted.

Same question about Matt really.

r199, I am dumb as fuck and I even I know this is about the (b)romance between Ben Affleck and Matt Damon.

Lucien Laviscount was forced back into the closet. Everybody knows he's gay, but he's being coy to protect his career.

R123 Truth.

They're gonna need a bulldozer to stuff HIM back in the closet!

R201 bang up job he's doing 🤣

[quote]Hemsworth cannot open a movie outside of the Thor franchise

Think about it, is there ANY actor who can open a movie anymore? Franchises get people in seats, not actors.

I don't agree with him about the coming out for leading men. But what I will say, is that I think with many actors we learn too much about them and it bleeds into the roles they play. I don't want to know what their homes look like, or how often they go to the gym, or anything else that seems too personal. There are basic things, like with Denzel Washington for example, what I know about him is that he has a huge house, his wife is a concert pianist, he has four kids two or three of them in "the business. These are things I have picked up over the years. We know TOm Hanks has four kids and at least two of them are in the business. On the other hand, Will Smith, overshares. Totally. A lot of actors are successful in carving out a "zone of privacy" and aren't publicity whores. But there is freedom in not hiding your sexuality. And if you are a private person, you're fine being out.

R201, Lucien is a beautiful young man. Those guns 💪

A shame about his outfit.

the current public mindset is only gay actors can play gay roles.

and that's progressive.

of course, anyone over 40 recalls when it was homophobic

Jonathan Bailey is really going to shake things up if he's cast as the next James Bond.

Where's the lie? Direct your anger at homophobic men. Most straight men won't support a film with an openly gay lead because they fear it will make them look 'gay'. The same way most of them do not support female driven casts or women as leads unless it's Kate Beckinsdale in a painted-on suit. Gays and women are 'less than' in their minds and support of either is 'gay'. Hell, there is barely even a market for middlebrow fare with straight male leads - again, too 'gay'. It's all comic book crap, violence and the like because that's what straight men go see. If you want to make that $$$, stay in the closet.

R208, No, it is not "progressive" at all. It is instead destructive of the entire concept of ACTING.

"Progressive" gays had best be careful of what they wish for, lest once out and, according to r206, "free," the backlash will be that they cannot therefore play straight characters.

And that is indeed why the Celluloid Closet.

[quote] Where's the lie? Direct your anger at homophobic men.

Nobody claims that it's a lie. Some believe that a gay man should show more support to his fellow gay men than support the homophobic bias still controlling his thoughts after he has retired from his profession. Times have changed a little since he left the business, and he refuses to acknowledge that, which makes his view outdated in the eyes of some DLers.

Most gays cannot act.

Well gays believe only gays should play gay roles, so. Gay roles are usually the best friend type shit, not the lead.

Well based on the names and films cited in the interview, it's safe to say as good as an agent he was in 70s and 80s, but he has not worked closely in Hollywood for the last 20 years.

Two of the male romantic leads in Emily in Paris are gay, Paul Forman and Lucien Laviscount. No idea if Lucas Bravo is gay or bi.

It's no longer the case that a gay man can't be cast as a straight romantic love interest.

Does the casting couch have a loyalty card?

r216 I wasn't aware that Paul Forman and Lucien Laviscount are out.

R218, Not out publicly, but everyone knows that they're gay.

R217 why? Do you know where i could get one?

[quote] - [R218], Not out publicly, but everyone knows that they're gay.

So, for the sake of their career, they are in the closet?

Hunny, Gay men have been cast as straight characters ever since movies were invented. Convincingly. And saying only Gays should play Gays is silly. That really ends up marginalizing an actor when it's hard enough to get work. It's dumb.

It's not hard for straight men to get work since they get all the straight roles and most of the gay roles, too.

R219, We've been here before, ad nauseam. "Knowing" and a declaration are not the same. You are being disingenuous, not a pretty look.

The blind items with Zac E., Corey H. etc. (with numbers as high as 300 guys coming over to have their way with them at "parties") make me believe that many of these "gay powerbrokers" use the closet to keep themselves out of the tabloids, courtrooms & prison. I wonder if this guy is one of those types.

R225 300?? 😳

R226 I wish I were in that position.

[quote]It's no longer the case that a gay man can't be cast as a straight romantic love interest.

True, but I don't think that was the point this casting director was ultimately trying to make. I think he was just saying that the reality of the business -- even in 2023 -- is that you can't come out if being an A-list movie star is your ultimate goal. After all, how many out-and-proud A-listers are there? As of this writing, I would say approximately zero.

When posters cite actors like NPH, Ian McKellen, Luke Macfarlane, Matt Bomer, etc., all of these guys are very successful, openly-gay working actors but they are not A-list movie stars. There's a very distinct difference. Thankfully, yes, things have improved to the point that you can definitely be out and gay in Hollywood, work consistently, be cast as the straight male lead in certain projects (and not just Hallmark movies), and even win major acting awards like the Emmy and the Tony (as in the cases of Billy Porter and NPH, respectively) but being an A-list film star is a totally different stratosphere altogether. In my opinion there are two types of A-list film stars, the box-office powerhouse (Tom Cruise, Will Smith, Keanu) and the serious award magnets who are first choice for all the top directors in Hollywood (Leo DiCaprio, Tom Hanks, Denzel, Brad Pitt). No disrespect intended but Macfarlane, NPH, Porter and Bomer are not in either of these categories. (McKellen is definitely a respected actor but not sure he's on the short list of most top A-list directors.) Again, there is a very distinct difference between being a successful working actor and being an A-list film star, which is why A-list film stars -- and those who want to become A-list -- do not come out of the closet. They stay in because they know it's the only way to safeguard their status in the business (hello, Bradley Cooper).

So again, I really think that is the point this casting director was making, not trying to stop actors who want to come out from doing so. If you want to come out and be open and honest about who you are, that is no doubt a wonderful and admirable thing but doing so and expecting to have a career like DiCaprio or Hanks just may not be realistic, at least not yet. Hopefully, one day it will be.

r228. The issue with that is that DUH FUCKING DUH! Telling like it is now doesn't require some retired insider. Dude wasn't involved in casting for something big for decades. The public is well aware that there is no openly gay A-list superstar leading a blockbuster franchise. You mean to tell me that in Hollywood, you still need to have a straight image in order to have a chance at becoming A-List? Whaaaaaaaat? Seriously? *put on my shocked face*

It's him dismissing any sign of things changing (Jonathan Bailey, for example) for the better in Hollywood that makes him a cunt.

Is it really too much to ask for some Gays to stop tearing other fellow Gays down and no longer let bias from the past live rent-free in their heads?

R228. Thanks for that. I definitely think that's what he meant.

We can all agree to disagree on whether that stuff is TRUE or not, and to what extent, but I think the important thing here is that this comment about "coming out" isn't coming from a malicious place per se. Just what this guy sees as a realistic one.

Well, r228, since Ian McKellen is 83,.....

[quote] We can all agree to disagree on whether that stuff is TRUE or not, and to what extent, [bold] but I think the important thing here is that this comment about "coming out" isn't coming from a malicious place per se. [bold]

[quote] I do think things are changing though – do you know who Jonathan Bailey is, for instance?

[quote] Joel: No.

Tell me you're headless without telling me you're headless.

Ups. Sorry for the formatting issue.

[quote] We can all agree to disagree on whether that stuff is TRUE or not, and to what extent,[bold] but I think the important thing here is that this comment about "coming out" isn't coming from a malicious place per se. [/bold]

[quote] I do think things are changing though – do you know who Jonathan Bailey is, for instance?

[quote] Joel: No.

Tell me you're headless without telling me you're headless.

R233. I fail to see your point?

Are you confusing ignorance for malice?

r234,

so, your argument is that he's an ignorant fuck who should be ignored? I agree with that. If he genuinely doesn't know who Jonathan Bailey is, then his comment on current Hollywood business is of no value and only a sad attempt to drum up some controversy for this sorry excuse of an interview. "Oh, Bea told him Betty is a cunt? Wow! What a confirmation of Golden Girls gossip! Bea didn't like Betty's approach to acting? This is brand new information we've never heard or read before!".

[quote] but I think the important thing here is that this comment about "coming out" isn't coming from a malicious place per se.

His "get off my lawn", stuck in the past cunt attitude makes him look bitter and unpleasant.

Your attempt at making him look sort of innocent, just making an innocent comment about coming out, makes you look foolish and disingenuous.