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Americans Head To Europe For The Good Life On The Cheap

This American couple from Florida look rather TRASHY anyway- let Europe have them.

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by Anonymousreply 33March 24, 2023 4:15 AM

It's interesting that Portugal's Golden Visa program to attract foreign investment was successful enough that it has been shut off. Their's was probably the most attractive program that existed with easy requirements, low investment thresholds (raised successively over several years), and instant reward of the equivalent of permanent residence and a path to citizenship.

Visiting Lisbon in particular over the last six years, it's remarkable how frequently with which one encounters people speaking English has grown in that time. It's become commonplace to the point that it rarely takes my attention now. At the same time, the numbers are not huge: there have been 11,700 (19,000 people in total as part of family applications) residence permits granted to (all) foreign visitors since 2012; and at the end of 2021 it was estimated that there were 7000 Americans living in Portugal.

Spain has about 40,000 U.S. nationals living there, up 13% between 2019 and 2021; and had a total of 7,500 Golden Visas holders in 2022. But these numbers are lot in the much larger group of 300,000 English speakers from the UK who live there full-time. Italy has about 16,000 U.S. nationals in residence. Statistics for Greece are more difficult to sort through but about 72,000 U.S. nationals in 2000.

The pressure on the housing markets comes more likely from pressures from AirBnB forces where residents lose out to investors in touristic apartments. Americans buying apartments at €400,000 or 500,000 or more depending on country requirements isn't directly keeping 35-year-olds living at their parents' homes, and to be fair that was an established pattern years before AirBnB and Golden Visa-type programs. Tourism has been a much bigger force in rents and property prices at the lower and mid-range of prices that have Golden Visas stirred trouble at the top of those markets.

It seems the number of Golden Visas holders could readily be absorbed into these countries without any serious upset in housing costs for their own nationals. The NYT seems to focus on the least of the causes of some very real housing cost problems.

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by Anonymousreply 1March 21, 2023 6:01 PM

oh those zany Millennial parents, now jetting abroad with kids!

by Anonymousreply 2March 21, 2023 7:26 PM

From America’s Florida to Europe’s Florida?

by Anonymousreply 3March 21, 2023 7:30 PM

New York Times, furiously fingering it's gash, trying to be a zeitgeist reporter, first on the scene to chronicle the next Brooklyn in Europe.

What's annoying and unctuous is that the NYTimes has always worshipped gentrifiers but now they are buttering the bread on both sides.

Meanwhile monied Russians have invaded several cities in Eastern and Southern Europe, stepping on locals as well.

Maybe the expats will kill each other to get the best apartments with the highest ceilings and most artisanal local commerce.

by Anonymousreply 4March 21, 2023 8:00 PM

It's in the NYT so take some it's broader conclusions and finger-pointing in this piece (and elsewhere, frankly!) with a degree of caution.

To be blunt, I hate the NYT.

Mostly that's so because of specific staffers, i.e. uber c**t maggie haberman and her condescending arrogance, the bitter and over-the-hill waster of column space otherwise known as maureen dowd and the over-entitled bret stephens who recently has been embroiled in a controversy that some liken to a scandal that the paper is trying to cover up and ignore.

by Anonymousreply 5March 21, 2023 8:29 PM

Here's that scandal.

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by Anonymousreply 6March 21, 2023 9:02 PM

Is that where DL fave Melissa Beth Miller moved?

by Anonymousreply 7March 21, 2023 9:16 PM

[quote] The result is a generation failing to launch, with more than 90 percent of southern Europeans under 35 still living at home, rates that eclipse their American counterparts.

This has always been the case in southern Europe, it's a cultural thing, nothing to do with poverty. The Mallios family, who moved to Greece, are clearly of Greek origin.

This is such a stupidly condescending article.

by Anonymousreply 8March 21, 2023 9:25 PM

Well there has been a significant challenge for Southern European younger generations to find good jobs. It is worse than it used to be and it is not just cultural.

by Anonymousreply 9March 21, 2023 9:26 PM

Since when is Europe cheaper than the U.S.?

Of course, if you go to some rural area or small town in Europe you can find a cheaper cost of living, but that's no different than going to some rural area or small town in the middle of the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 10March 21, 2023 9:39 PM

The numbers have gone up but they're small and pretty insignificant in the bigger picture. The Brits in Spain are a bigger deal than we are. I'll bet one or more of tgehsepeople happen to be acquaitances of the auther.

by Anonymousreply 11March 21, 2023 9:48 PM

Tgehsepeople are the worst. They have ruined Berlin and Nice.

by Anonymousreply 12March 21, 2023 9:50 PM

"On the cheap"?! Wait till they have to fill up on petrol.

by Anonymousreply 13March 21, 2023 9:51 PM

WTF are "tgehsepeople??"

by Anonymousreply 14March 21, 2023 9:53 PM

Bad hombres

by Anonymousreply 15March 21, 2023 10:01 PM

[quote]Since when is Europe cheaper than the U.S.?

Since a long time. America has high salaries but they get eaten up by higher costs of living.

Lisbon compared to Philadelphia:

Consumer Prices in Lisbon are 33.9% lower than in Philadelphia, PA (without rent)

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Lisbon are 31.3% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Rent Prices in Lisbon are 26.8% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Restaurant Prices in Lisbon are 33.4% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Groceries Prices in Lisbon are 46.9% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Local Purchasing Power in Lisbon is 66.5% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Paris compared to Philaldephia:

Consumer Prices in Paris are 3.5% lower than in Philadelphia, PA (without rent)

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Paris are 6.2% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Rent Prices in Paris are 10.9% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Restaurant Prices in Paris are 9.1% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Groceries Prices in Paris are 6.4% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

Local Purchasing Power in Paris is 38.7% lower than in Philadelphia, PA

L.A. compared to Madrid:

Consumer Prices in Madrid are 30.4% lower than in Los Angeles, CA (without rent)

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Madrid are 43.9% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

Rent Prices in Madrid are 59.7% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

Restaurant Prices in Madrid are 41.3% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

Groceries Prices in Madrid are 40.9% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

Local Purchasing Power in Madrid is 30.8% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

I live in Spain in a major city where housing costs are >66% less than in Chicago, >80% less than Chicago, 55% less than Milwaukee...

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by Anonymousreply 16March 21, 2023 10:04 PM

Now compare health care costs R16

by Anonymousreply 17March 21, 2023 10:17 PM

Yes, there is that, R17. There's also the comparison of quality of life.

by Anonymousreply 18March 21, 2023 10:34 PM

I don't know about Southern Europe. Many times in richer Northern European countries, infrastructure is very advanced and highly developed in all domains. For example the public transportation systems can be quite dense, very modern and clean, very frequent, and run on time. People can move from village to town to city, seamlessly. Everyone benefits from this, rich or poor. Other infrastructures can be day care, nursery schools, very small local schools all over the cities and towns. Or for example, public sports and fitness facilities. Municipally owned indoor and outdoor city pools and sports centres for kids teams and adult teams. Not some crappy old ball field. Nice installations. Quite a lot of infrastructure for handicapped people - physically and mentally. Not entirely decrepit subsidised housing. Affordable senior living centres. And on and on and on. Think about what a junky sprawling town in the USA might offer. Nothing. Maybe a dead mall.

by Anonymousreply 19March 21, 2023 10:50 PM

I retired from Europe to the US because the US is cheaper. That article is nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 20March 21, 2023 10:56 PM

I'm sure I recently saw a headline that Portugal was ending their Golden Visa program for some reason.

by Anonymousreply 21March 21, 2023 11:16 PM

Maybe they expecting nice retired couples. Instead they go truly crass yet boring riche bobos pricing locals out of bourgeois housing and swanning about like they are the new Lost Generation.

by Anonymousreply 22March 21, 2023 11:30 PM

[quote]Of course, if you go to some rural area or small town in Europe you can find a cheaper cost of living, but that's no different than going to some rural area or small town in the middle of the U.S.

Yes, but maybe small towns/rural areas in Europe are generally nicer than the ones in the US?

by Anonymousreply 23March 21, 2023 11:43 PM

[quote]I'm sure I recently saw a headline that Portugal was ending their Golden Visa program for some reason.

It has ended, as mentioned in OPś linked article.

by Anonymousreply 24March 22, 2023 12:05 AM

OP's behind the paywall article which I couldn't read.

by Anonymousreply 25March 22, 2023 12:07 AM

A rural village/town in most of Europe is likely to have decent public transport links to the nearest city.

Fifty miles out in most European countries is considered a long distance to travel.

by Anonymousreply 26March 22, 2023 12:07 AM

[quote]I retired from Europe to the US because the US is cheaper.

I would say, then, that your experience is one of a rather unique perspective, then. and not based on experience in Southern European countries, nor in any but five or six countries in Europe where the cost-of-living is higher than in the U.S.

I would guess, too, that you are an American returning to the U.S. with some kind of healthcare available to you. For a European retiring to the U.S., one monthś health care premium would be the equal of one year's premium for an American taking a health care insurance policy in Europe -- and he would potentially incur far greater costs in the form of out-of-pocket expenses, co-pays, deductibles, percentage contributions to covered expenses, etc.

I may be wrong on some of my guessing, but the U.S. is not exactly an attractive country for immigrants to retire to. There is no program for any sort of retirement visa, the closest thing that I am aware of is a normal green card or Visitor Visa or a EB-5 Investor Visa (an investment of $800K or >$1.05M for green card-equivalent residency benefits). Health care insurance and social services would be a big stumbling block for anyone not relatively rich.

There are few Europeans retiring to the U.S. a few solid reasons, cost-of-living being a big one.

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by Anonymousreply 27March 22, 2023 12:49 AM

It can be cheaper to retire to Florida if you make a conscious choice not to have medical insurance or air-con and generally eat out in your own Country.

Sounds a bit of a precarious existence though?

by Anonymousreply 28March 22, 2023 1:05 AM

R16 Spain and Portugal may be cheaper but France is NOT. Don't know where you came up with those French prices. The UK, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany are all more expensive than living in the US - NOT in Southern California, Northern California or NYC, but certainly much more expensive than living in flyover country.

by Anonymousreply 29March 24, 2023 3:11 AM

R29- Here on the datalounge we refer to that area as


by Anonymousreply 30March 24, 2023 3:46 AM

DL still loves Max Emerson, our best type of Florida boy.

by Anonymousreply 31March 24, 2023 3:57 AM

R26 In America’s largest metros, that is sometimes a one way commute.

by Anonymousreply 32March 24, 2023 3:59 AM

I’d bone the dad.

by Anonymousreply 33March 24, 2023 4:15 AM
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