40 years after her passing, the documentary “Karen Carpenter: Starving for Perfection” will debut this weekend

Kristen Chenoweth? I suppose she'll be praising the eating tips she learned from Karen

I thought the title must be a joke but they actually signed off on that and chose it.

I could really do without the interviews of the celebrities who never actually knew or worked with her. They're really just talking out their asses.

Bring your snacks.

Why do we need a documentary about this fatty?

Her brother directed Halloween.

This should’ve been called Karen Carpenter:Superstar. I mean, it was right there.

No one needs this film. Todd Haynes already told the story.

Karen ruthlessly spread her legs for every music producer she met.

It helped early on, but became embarrassing for Richard and their parents.

I can't believe it's been forty years.

^Blasphemy

It’s not blasphemy — it HAS been forty years.

What did she pass forty years ago? No wonder she didn't want to eat!

She was kind of a weirdo

Will Richard try to block this release?

They were the top selling American singles act of the Seventies , following three British acts (Elton, Bee Gees, McCartney). It's a shame they recorded that depressing Sedaka dirge "Solitaire" that ended their hit streak.

“Karen Carpenter: Pooped for Affection”!

Didn’t she do a disco album that Richard suppressed?

I’m ready for my close up now, Mr.. DeMille

I’m FINALLY skin and bones after forty years of rot!!!!

That was terrible, R19, as well as terribly funny.

[quote] Didn’t she do a disco album that Richard suppressed?

That's not all he was suppressing.

I wish they would focus on other aspects of her life than the anorexia. Obviously, that was a big part of who she was in her last years, but it isn't the only interesting thing about Karen Carpenter. It feels like her musical legacy and even her humanity have been obscured by the fact that she had an eating disorder.

White girl has it all, isn’t satisfied, refuses to eat.

Gripping.

Sue Lawley is a horrible woman. Always going straight for the jugular.

[quote]Why do we need a documentary about this fatty?

Thanks for weighing in Mrs. Agnes Carpenter, formerly of Downey, CA

[quote] It feels like her musical legacy and even her humanity have been obscured by the fact that she had an eating disorder.

I think the problem is, she *has* no musical legacy. With the possible exception of their Christmas songs, what Carpenters songs are played today or even remade by some indie artist. Aside from her eating disorder, the tragedy of her KC is that a talented woman was saddled with her incompetent, talentless schlocky brother. In the hands of different producers, she might have created enduring music. It's telling that Richard producer one of the biggest acts of the 70s, yet had no career in music after his cash cow died.

I agree, R27. I think it's a case where the behind-the-scenes story has a morbid fascination, and people go back and listen to the music (which was not acclaimed at the time and still is not distinguished) and find layers of sadness and longing in it. The music and the biography get fused together in tragic spectacle, in a Billie Holiday effect. But Holiday's music was better. Certainly she had better collaborators and material.

I remember exactly where I was when I heard she had died, like I remember where I was when the Challenger exploded, or when I heard about 9/11.

Eugenia on the guest list?

They really missed the opportunity to reuse the same title and do a double feature with Mama Cass

[quote]I thought the title must be a joke but they actually signed off on that and chose it.

It's downright tacky.

Can we stream it somewhere?

R16 I think 'Solitaire' is one of her better recordings. It seems every single artist was recording Sedaka's song, or singing it in concert at the time - Carpenters, Cher, Johnny Mathis, Jane Olivor, etc - and everyone seemed to have different lyrics to the song. Makes me wonder how many versions Sedaka wrote back then ?

R3 I agree with you - she was very good friends with Olivia Newton-John and Dionne Warwick at the time (and I think Mike Wilson of the Beach Boys). But that was it - couldn't they have just limited interviews to those three ? I mean what can Chenowith have to contribute ?

R34 - I hope you mean Brian Wilson (and not Mike Love).

Erm, these posters saying she has no musical legacy are nuts. Rainy Days and Mondays is legacy enough, and there are plenty more terrific vocal performances beyond that. She was uniquely gifted, even if her biography makes people uncomfortable.

r36 and, her and her brother has as much charisma, if not more to hint around the vague idea of an incestuous relationship... leading many young men of the era to become gay and young women to write dime store fanfiction.

^ more as much charisma as Donnie and Marie.. but yes, actual talent behind them, too

'Now and Then' is a great album. It will survive.

Other great cuts: Goodbye to Love, I Can't Make Music, Mr Postman, Love Me for What I am, Top of the Word, We've Only Just Begun, It's Going to Take Some Time, For All We Know, Masquerade, Hurting Each Other.

The reprise of "Yesterday Once More" at the end of 'Now and Then' is truly haunting. One of the best cuts from the album.

“Close to You” was in The Simpson’s movie. It’s a classic.

ONLY FUCKING YESTERDAY!!!

Better late than never ?

Carol Burnett was a witness to Agnes Carpenter's cuntiness.

Will she be revealed as a lesbian?

Agnes knew about the incest and blamed Karen for it. Richard was the golden child who could do no wrong so she took out her anger on Karen.

[quote]r27 the tragedy of KC is that a talented woman was saddled with an incompetent, talentless, schlocky brother.

KC? Make that [bold]KFC[/bold]

Moo

When will we get the documentary about Agnes' plight of having to raise such a little harlot?

R8 right now I’m watching that, and I’m not sure if I like it or not.

Even for a biopic, it feels very rushed, and superficial, and bowdlerised. It’s certainly a hazy, barely-there take on violent ED and family skeletons. It seems more like a very long series of tribute music videos, with a bit of plot and backstory sprinkled in. It’s way fluffier and thinner (sorry) on the ground than even The Jazz Singer.

The costumes, sets and sound are all fantastic, though. And Cynthia Gibb is very good in the role of Karen, though I find some of her line deliveries a little syrupy.

[quote] around the vague idea of an incestuous relationship... leading many young men of the era to become gay and young women to write dime store fanfiction

I thought the only slash fanfic around in the 1970s was about Star Trek. That’s what started the entire movement.

And why would Carpenters fanfic turn little boys gay?

My Pussy Keeps Changing My Mind

The Carpenters should be inducted into The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame!!! Their hits are timeless and they were one of the best groups in the history of music!!

They don’t need no stinking Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, they already have a shrine built for them at Cal State Long Beach!

Cole Porter

That’s a kind of terrible arrangement. Did the brother do it?

ONJ probably had an eating disorder herself. Obviously not to a deadly extent, but she was so so skinny in the Grease /Xanadu era so if they were that close Olivia was probably her skin-spo - which didn’t help.

She and ONJ probably went out to lunch all the time and just chewed on ice cubes and moved the salad around on their plates.

Agnes was such a CUNT!

[quote] Better late than never ?

That's the documentary title about her menstrual cycle due to anorexia.

Being a fan of The Carpenters=OGT (‘Obviously Gay Trait’)

What is a skin-spo, R57?

Paul Simon was a cunt to her!

Paul Simon was a cunt to everyone.

R6, I found an unknown blog that claims this. That’s it. Where did you get your info?

Ugly as sin. Her later day hairstyle resembled pubic hair.

That title is a mouthful!

I'll add my bitchy two cents. What was so great about Karen Carpenter? She always sounded like skating music to me. Would she be hailed for her vocal/musical genius had she lived?

I'll be having a viewing party and serving Metamucil Stingers.

[quote] That title is a mouthful!

Ironic, isn't it?

And sugar-free gum and Ex-lax for dessert [R69].

Don't cry for me Datalounge.

2023 isn't very subtle with its titles.

R62 whoops - I guess I meant thin-spo. Same diff

"Will she be revealed as a lesbian?"

If she really was a lez, I doubt she had any real experience, maybe a few youthful fumbles that left her confused rather than liberated. Because she never did liberate her mind, she never broke away from her horrible family's control on her, even when she finally got her own place they were still embedded in her psyche, controlling her thoughts and actions.

And that's her legacy to me, an example of what happens to a person who never breaks away from the family dysfunction and finds their own way to happiness. I don't think that poor woman ever knew what she wanted, sexually or otherwise, because her controlling family had convinced her that the one thing she could never do as long as she lived, was to put herself first.

OP’s photo looks more like a certain princess that doesn’t like to share her lip gloss.

She was a gifted singer and a number of her hits were quite fine. Perhaps if she had lived we would have seen her branch into other vocal genre like Ronstat and and Streisand did.

"Starving for Perfection"?! Maybe Richard Carpenter can record the title song with Dionne Warwick.

Starving for Pussy

“Starving for Perfection” is definitely not a title best bestowed to the biopic of a DLer.

Has anyone watched this yet? Was it any good or did it have anything new to add?

New video of Richard and his daughters singing 'Top of the World' to congratulate M.M. Keeravaani and Chandrabose on their Oscar win.

So, people who viewed this---is there anything new?

Where can we see it?

I think it's still being shown at film festivals.

Anorexia is a mental illness that becomes a physical illness and kills you. Really sad.

She unfortunately had big hips

[quote] “Karen Carpenter: Starving for Perfection”

It's as if the DL workshopped the title.

She really could stand to lose a few.

She wasn't fat as a young woman, she just wasn't camera-thin. A healthy normal body, rather than the kind of body that looks good in a white outfit, on camera, with stage lighting.

Why the hell did they have to pressure her to starve herself! It's not like starving would make her beautiful, whether she was normal or thin, she was still a plain girl with a great singing voice.

I have always gotten the impression that Karen was a very sensitive and naive person (a bit childlike, really), which ultimately led to her self-destruction. Despite her professional success, her personal life was a wreck and she seemed somewhat emotionally stunted. Thinking about her life makes me sad. Her singing was divine—she had a pure, otherworldly quality to her vocals that is unlike any I’ve heard before or since. There’s something intrinsically heartbreaking about her that comes through in the music, and I think it’d be noticeable even if you knew nothing about her life or death.

Agnes was a real piece of work.

R90, she's beautiful there. I would fall in love with her, and bed her, and consider having a life with her.

R91, I think she was delicate, sensitive, and full of dreams and desires that she could not voice with words, and it came out in her singing. She most likely was a closeted lesbian who wanted children, who wanted intimate sex, a partner (she tried to find this in a man, unsuccessfully) and a full life, all of which was out of reach for her due to circumstance, made worse by the people around her.

It's all very sad, and completely heartbreaking.

I found it very interesting that Richard isn't involved in this project.

Oh god let her die

Agnes seems the type to shame her teenage daughter into not eating.

Karen worked in an industry that was full of gorgeous women and she was very insecure about her appearance and had low self-esteem. She thought she was unsophisticated, unattractive and overweight.

just a reminder of how beautiful and haunting her voice was

This was quite good, a slim book, which is part of a larger series, with five essays on KC by a Filipino-American dyke who was actually named after her by her musical family. In the Philippines, KC is worship like a saint and her music there is omnipresent.

Is it true that she had the slimmer’s disease?

^She was pooped!

What's next? "Mama Cass: Big Legs and Ham"?

Then what? Sarah Jessica Parker: Straight From The Horse's Mouth?

If only she had lived, she could have sang "My Splenda Walls"

As opposed to “Larger than Life”!

The author of the excellent Karen carpenter biography “little girl blue” is involved in this so no he isn’t involved and no carpenters songs will likely be in the documentary. Richard got the Todd Haynes movie pulled because he didn’t get permission to use carpenters music in the film. Mitchell Anderson and Cynthia Gibb said the script of the 1988 tv movie was changed several times to make Agnes less of a cunt. The final movie still showed what cunt Agnes was to Karen.

The title is sad, the way it reduces her life to an eating disorder.

It's hard for me to be objective about her voice and her music because I grew up listening to it. My parents liked The Carpenters' music, as well.

John Lennon liked her voice, too.

[quote] In the BBC documentary Only Yesterday: The Carpenters Story, her friend Nicky Chinn said that John Lennon walked up to her at a Los Angeles restaurant and told her "I want to tell you, love, that you've got a fabulous voice."

I think Superstar is probably my favorite song. I like Luther Vandross's version, as well.

Easy to make fun of Karen, now. She was very earnest about her singing. She was the opposite of cool. But I did enjoy her voice.

[quote] "Why do we need a documentary about this fatty?"

R5= Gwyneth, allowing herself a second single weekly American Spirit due to current circumstances.

[quote] "Her brother directed Halloween."

LOL @R6! Sadly though, more than a year before her passing, Karen did resemble a skull-faced alien from "They Live".

I'm no fan but she really did have a glorious voice, and she sang gloriously at a time when it was out of fashion to sing like you'd have voice lessons, or at least out of fashion for white acts. It was fashionable for female singers to be sound as loose as Joni Mitchell or as unpolished as Stevie Nicks or Debbie Harry.

This thread inspired me to listen to SUPERSTAR.

I wish camera phones had been around back then. She and Cass went out to dinner together, and were singing duets. Seriously.

She was a fantastic drummer.

[quote]her friend Nicky Chinn said that John Lennon walked up to her at a Los Angeles restaurant and told her "I want to tell you, love, that you've got a fabulous voice."

She was at a restaurant? What was she doing there?

R113 Black coffee

Who are the DL mourning mongers still worked up about this white trashy bitch 40 years on? Her voice as 8brecall was insufferable in life, and time has not improved it

When Neil Peart of Rush was asked "What’s it like being one of the best drummers in the world?" He replied " I don't know, ask Karen Carpenter."

Did she ever drum during concerts, or just sing?

[quote]R99 This was quite good, a slim book…

It could have been slimmer.

Quitter!

She started out drumming and singing, then they pushed her into standing out front just singing because people loved her voice and that was the important part. That was also the beginning of her problems as she didn't like standing out front with all eyes on her. She felt even more pressure to be thin, attractive, and acceptable. She felt safe hidden back there behind her drum kit. Their ridiculous concert schedule didn't help, I'm sure. All of this was the fault of their management at the time, not Richard as so many like to place the blame. Keep in mind they were both just naive kids who wanted to make music and they were completely unprepared for the popularity they found. Agnes always wanted Richard to be like Liberace (no further comment), so this was all fine with her. With pressure from all sides, they were were fucked from the beginning; they didn't stand a chance.

Later, Karen going back to the drums was a treat (for both her and the audience) during concerts. Eventually, she didn't have the strength in her arms to play the drums at all, which was a disappointment to her.

It's true they had a punishing tour schedule. The amount of concerts they gave after they became famous was grueling. I saw a Carpenters documentary years ago and their former manager said that he now regretted the schedule he had them on, and he should've done things differently.

[quote]R119 Eventually, Karen didn't have the strength in her arms to play the drums at all, which was a disappointment to her.

But it’s such a good workout! She could have burned a LOT of calories!

Let her die for God’s sake!

Thank you for posting that video, R98. I always forget and then remember and then forget again, just how dreamy and unique KC's voice is. There's nothing else like it. Her voice evokes a certain safe, warm, cozy 70s mood that I have deep, deep nostalgia for.

I love her.

As far as calling this doc "Starving For Perfection," if the focus of the doc is about her ED specifically, then fair play, I say. Sadly, besides the music career, which she was very torn about, her personal life pretty much hinges on the ED. She didn't expand into painting or business. Her marriage was awful, and she died never having experience a triumphant growth arc. She didn't "do" much of anything except sing, starve, and die. Her death was senseless, it was preventable, and yes, her anorexia and death will forever inform the music she made. Kind of like how Kurt Cobain's music can't be discussed now without acknowledging his suicide. The death informs the life.

[Quote] the focus of the doc is about her ED

R123 I didn’t know she ever had erectile dysfunction.

For r6

I think eating disorders are as hard to overcome as drug addiction. So, I don't think her death was necessarily "avoidable." The same way I don't think deaths due to long-term drug addiction are "avoidable." People are there, along the way, to try to help. In the end, it's up to the person to take the steps towards getting better.

Agnes deserved a swift kick in the cunt. Bitch.

I'm surprised Karen never did any recorded duets (she did several on TV specials). I would've loved to hear her sing with David Gates, of the group Bread, a band whose success and style paralleled the Carpenters.

Eating disorders are harder to overcome then alcohol or drugs in that the current philosophy of treatment of them is to completely abstain from alcohol or drugs, Everyone needs food to survive, so instead of withdrawing from it, you actually have to find a way to live with it and fix the problems at the root.

On her solo album, Karen recorded a duet with Peter Cetera of Chicago. The song is "Making Love in the Afternoon". It's not bad; very upbeat, perky but also cheap and shallow. It's also a perfect example of why the album was not released at the time. Bad song choices thanks to Phil Ramone pushing more "sex" oriented songs and for some reason, Karen sounds more like Olivia Newton John than herself.

[quote]"Now" was a work lead, recorded in one take, and was intended to familiarize the musicians with the song as well as Richard's arrangement of it. After a complete music track had been recorded, Karen would have then returned to the studio and recorded new vocals for the song. But as it was, the work lead turned out to be the last song Karen ever recorded.

Her breath support was weakening, but those basement $$$ notes were still magic. Beautiful voice. RIP

@ R115

[quote]. I like Luther Vandross's version, as well.

I guess you didn't dance with your English teacher.

And yet fasting is now considered very healthy.

[quote] I like Luther Vandross's version, as well.

[quote] I guess you didn't dance with your English teacher.

You can use an apostrophe plus S after a name that ends with S.

She very obviously suffered some horrific childhood trauma. We will never know the real story, we only see it manifest in her adult behaviors.

Creatively, what I find extraordinary is that at first she didn't consider herself a singer. She was a musician, a drummer. To just accidentally discover that you have that exquisite voice with that range and breath control...

It's not like she had Cissy Houston shouting at her "SING LOUDER, BITCH!!!" for all of her formative years.

I LOVE her! She looks amazing for a fat chick

Unfortunately Karen's solo album was pretty lackluster. The songs weren't suited for her, but the one exception was her cover of Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years." That was the only good song.

The Carpenters in an outdoor concert - they sounded just as good live as they did in the studio.

It was amazing how Karen could control her voice so well while playing the drums.

This thread is getting kind of long. Are we going to have refreshments?

[quote]violent ED

?? Erectile dysfunction? People on this site place too much faith in acronyms, I'm tellin ya.

[quote] It was amazing how Karen could control her voice so well while playing the drums.

It's amazing when drummers can sing (while drumming). As much of an asshole as Don Henley (Eagles) seems to be, he can sing (well, IMO) and drum at the same time.

The people who have such fond memories of this music are people who weren't even alive when it was being broadcast on Top-40 radio, on and on and on, and thus weren't subjected to its numbing, saccharine sweetness. Personally, I loathed their treacly, oppressive bullshit. Nowadays, I find it mildly appealing to my evil side, knowing what that perky, maudlin singer was secretly doing to herself all along. But no, it's not really interesting music. It's pablum, just Muzak.

r144 just fuck off.

[quote]And yet fasting is now considered very healthy.

Periodic fasting and an eating disorder are two very different things.

She was addicted to laxatives, so no doubt she was constantly shitting her panties.

I always loved the carpenters. I adopted three AA boys out of foster care. An AA friend of mine came by one night to watch the boys for me so I could take a bath in peace. I lit a candle, put on the Carpenters and got into my nice hot bath. Once my friend heard I was listening to the Carpenters he opened the door and told me he was going to call CPS on me...... subjecting my poor kids to that. Thought it was hilarious, and my poor kids grew up slistening to Rent, Into the Woods and Wicked so maybe he was on to something early......

[quote] This thread is getting kind of long. Are we going to have refreshments?

Yes - coffee, prunes and flaxseed muffins.

Let's splurge! Tic Tacs for everyone.

Rich white girl who refused to eat her breakfast.

Am I supposed to care?

There have always been rumors that Karen was molested by Richard. If true, that would explain a lot.

R64, Tell me about it.

Karen’s gold digger husband of one year, Thomas Burris, is still alive.

R152, I read Little Girl Blue, and although it makes no allegations, it's pretty easy to read between the lines that Richard was abusing her. When Richard married his "cousin" (the family says she's not related by blood, but the author didn't seem to completely buy that), Karen wasn't happy about it at all (to put it lightly) while Agnes was all for it (you'd think she'd be scandalized?) I guess I thought Karen would be happy Richard was moving on, but apparently Karen's reaction tracks for sexual abuse victims.

Agnes was a real cunt. I hope she’s burning in hell.

Richard with Barbara Mandrell

Yuck, Kristen "stinky pussy" Chenoweth and her fivehead. She, the Platt family, Lin Manuel Miranda and Billy Porter are the worst things to ever happen to Broadway.

I've disliked her even more after she did a documentary about three girl scouts (whom she barely even knew as a child) who were brutally murdered in their tents nearly 40 years ago and made it all about herself.

Did Richard eat out Babsy Mandrell’s snatch?

Did Karen have any close female friends? Because that's one thing I look at when I wonder if some gal is a closeted or an unawakened lesbian, seeing whether she forms deep attachments to other women. Like, maybe there's a Robyn Crawford or Gayle King, or maybe the sort of platonic friend that's practically a life partner.

Although, maybe the Carpenters didn't let their daughter have friends. I wouldn't put it past them.

R160 Karen seems like the kind of woman who would come out and find happiness as a late in life lesbian after a string of failed relationships with men had she lived much longer. I wouldn't blame her if she did.

I believe her husband was a piece of shit and her brother and parents were known to be assholes. She deserved better. I hope that one journalist who made the comment that upset her and sparked her anorexia died a slow and painful death from cancer.

R160, Karen had several close female friends, as well as celebrity friends Olivia Newton-John, Dionne Warwick and Petula Clark.

Prior to her brief ill fated marriage, Karen dated Mark Harmon and Tony Danza, among others.

Why do birds suddenly appear 🦅

Even at the peak of their fame and popularity, their mother remained a controlling force.

Richard was always the favored child.

Once, after a concert, their mother approached a family friend in the parking lot and exclaimed “Wasn’t Richard wonderful?”. No mention of Karen, whose talent went unrecognized by their mother.

Karen’s voice is so soothing and wholesome.

When I was a kid my older sisters played their music non-stop. Probably when it was at the pinnacle of their career. What people might not realize now is that back then it was a breath of fresh air compared to the hard rock that proliferated the airwaves back then. On top of that they were only one of a few young groups that had a squeaky clean non-druggy image that a lot of parents were looking for. If they were going to embrace this new music and Hippy styles, The Carpenters were one of the few they actually liked. Sonny and Cher were also in that handful of acceptable mainstream hippies.

Ironically, Richard turned out to be a major drug user once their music fell out of popularity. And of course Karen addiction weight loss and body dismorphia was her drug of choice.

Where can we watch this? I can't seem to find it.

R154, she's such a big old lesbian in that wedding photo. I'd marry her in a second. I don't know why I feel so seduced by her (in her pre-anorexia days), but I do. She's beautiful.

I don't think she's beautiful, R168, I think she had an interesting face but of course the perception of beauty is purely individual and subjective.

When I look at the teenaged Karen, though, what I chiefly see is a tomboy's face under a femme's hairstyle, a strong little face that would be much more comfortable under a softball cap than that ridiculous bouffant. And of course we know that nobody in her family or her work life would ever have encouraged her to relax and let the tomboy out, so how can a lesbian look at her and not feel the urge to rescue her? Hell, I feel it, and I'm gay!

[quote]Karen wasn't happy about it at all (to put it lightly) while Agnes was all for it (you'd think she'd be scandalized?) I guess I thought Karen would be happy Richard was moving on, but apparently Karen's reaction tracks for sexual abuse victims.

Karen was mortified because it was a cousin and she thought that they would be inbreeding. Richard had to take a blood test before they got married.

I don't think there was incest or abuse in the family. The Carpenters seemed like a lot of families of that period where great emphasis was put on the son to do well where the daughter's only goal was to find a nice husband and settle down. And the parental unit of the hen-pecked husband and the controlling ballbuster of a wife who emasculated him.

Agnes couldn't handle Karen not only having musical talent but becoming the focus of the group. And Richard, who was told he was the "prodigy" since being a toddler couldn't fully adjust to the dynamic either.

Speed + thyroxine + starvation = dead girl.

Who did she pass?

Yeah Mary was their first cousin and was adopted at birth. Her mother is Agnes sister Bernice.

I don't feel an urge to rescue her, R169. What I feel is that I'd love to be in her arms, or would have loved to... She seems strong yet delicate, and there's the tomboy aspect you mentioned. All that while being quite curvy, when she was still healthy.

I don't know - something about her.

^Her voice, which is certainly unique in quality, has a real affinity for the same kind of timbre as Patsy Cline's. It's hard to define, but there is something otherworldly about both of their voices. For me, it's the only saving quality about their otherwise treacly music [the Carpenters, not PC].

That sick, Cluster B mother - complete with the abuse, control issues and “golden child” - deserves no sympathy nor mourning.

She did indeed kill her daughter.

Even more respect for Carol Burnett for shoving that disordered bitch on to the street like the vile, trash she was:

Her upbringing emotionally stunted Karen, still living with her parents well into her 20s, collecting Disney memorabilia and stuffed animals, little girl behaviors. Even her expressed wishlist for a partner sounded more like she was looking for a Prince Charming than a real human being: He had to be rich and famous and handsome and family-oriented.

The best thing she could have done for herself was move far away immediately once the Carpenters hit and she had the money. Moving to NYC in the early 70s might have saved her life.

R176, what a sad story. Too bad she didn't just say Fuck You to the lot, and used another producer.

She had a crush on her brother and he fancied slender girls, but she went too far.

Even if the cousin was adopted, it's still gross.

I left a bag of shit outside the Carpenter crypt, meant for that huge cunt Agnes. I hope the crypt keeper smeared it on her resting site.

Agnes Carpenter was a control freak, and so was Richard. While Richard is alive, we'll never get an honest Carpenters movie or miniseries, because they won't get access to the music.

Yeah, adopted children are family members. Marrying your cousin is still creepy and incestuous even if there is no genetic relationship. And yes, I know it's legal in half the US states, but that doesn't mean it's not gross.

Both FDR and Rudy Giuliani married distant cousins.

FDR and Eleanor were something like fifth cousins, that's so far removed you might as well not even be related at all. First cousins are quite closely related.

Karen was not an attractive person and truth is that both Karen and Richard were very dull personalities, musically and otherwise. They had no opinions and little insight into anything beyond their career. Politically and sexually they were not just conservative but fucking BORING.

Karen did have some female friends of equal stature in the business and they always spoke highly of her. Her voice.

Richard is talented, but lets not pretend that there bland pop music stardom wasn't a formula. Because it totally was. They were nothing without each other and their popularity was dim and the sound gone stale before the time of her death.

They would have been a legacy act on PBS or Casinos.

Karen Carpenter was no Linda Ronstadt or Diana Ross - vocally, viscerally or intellectually. There was no reinventing what she did.

I always got incesty vibes from Richard

R186, Bullshit! I forgot more than you know.

I'm sure you have, R188.

R186 And yet 40 years after her death she’s still remembered as one of the purest voices ever recorded. That’s her legacy, a beautiful voice that transcends time.

“Karen Carpenter was no Linda Ronstadt or Diana Ross“

Karen’s voice was far superior to both of those women.

Adopted or not, it's still weird to marry a first cousin - especially since Richard was rich and famous and could have pretty much any woman he wanted. Why go for your cousin?

If she hadn't starved/drugged herself to death, there would not have been much gas left in the Carpenters' tank for the future. They would have been pretty much forgotten about. Face it.

Like Bread and America, two fitting comparisons. Nobody much cares about either today. And deservedly so.

"Karen’s voice was far superior to both of those women."

But overall, her music was inferior.

Honestly, her only hope at both life and an ongoing career was to ditch her family, especially Richard, ditch her managers (who kept trying to sex her up), and re-invent herself as a sophisticated jazz or easy-listening singer. And maybe just work as a drummer for a while just to change things up and clear her head. There is money to be made in easy listening and sophisticated jazz, not top-forty money of course, but somebody's got to make the sort of music that upscale restaurants play in the background. But well, that didn't happen. She didn't save herself.

I think had Karen lived, she could've had a comeback during the big easy-listening wave of the late 80s.

R195, She tried to “escape” by recording a solo album.

Richard and others convinced Karen that it wasn’t good enough to release.

I’ve heard rumors for years that KC and ONJ were bffs with benefits. Can anyone confirm this? She was so awkward, and Richard’s arrangements so cringeworthy, and their Nixon/Downey schtick such a turnoff, that only when I hear Superstar once every 10 years am I reminded that she had a beautiful voice and was a talented musician.

I do hear similarities between Karen’s and Patsy Cline’s voices. Would’ve been interesting to hear Karen sing less treacly songs.

R198, Check out this joint appearance in 1981 on Merv Griffin.

By 1981, Karen would have had enough of her gold digger husband, of whom she speaks. The beautiful boat she refers to was most likely repossessed.

I wonder if Karen got a fair share of the "The Carpenters" money?

The record industry was and is full of crooks, and Momma and Richard probably would have insisted that Richard get more money than Karen as well as his song publishing rights, because they considered it to be "his" band. So between the horrible Carpenter family and the usual record industry hijinks, well. Anyone know if she got fucked over financially?

I've been listening to Weyes Blood recently, and the way she enunciates-- or holds a note, or something,--is so reminiscent of Karen Carpenter. And the indie crowd seems to love her, so if Karen hadn't died, she may well, at some point in the future, have had a audience.

Sonic Youth (sexy Thurston Moore on lead vocal) recorded what is hands down the best cover of Superstar so far.

Unsurprisingly Richard Carpenter (being the prissy little queen that he's always been) strongly dislikes their version.

Karen has the best vocal on a recording of Superstar of any of them - but the collegiate glee club multitrack chorus detracts from the grit and pathos of what Leon Russell called his "groupie" song.

Carpenters version is a cover of a cover of a cover already.

Richard Carpenter saw Bette Midler sing Superstar on a TV special and tracked down the Bonnie Bramlett version. She was the co-writer and original singer. Rita Coolidge had something to do with the song too - was she the groupie or the superstar?

Sonic Youth must have sounded cool to people who were 50 years old in 2004? They used that version in the movie Juno - just to demonstrate how ironically unhip it was.

Luther Vandross sang this song, at every concert for years. He makes an aria of it, which it maybe didn't need. But what gorgeous singing. He gives the song back its intended meaning. Romantic longing for an idealized lover. Midler did that too - but it was too much drama.

Karen's voice had inherent pathos, but I doubt she had a one night stand or any significant sexual relationship in her california V O W E L life. She has a terrible affectation on her vowel soungs when she sings. And a sibilant sound, always. She was a close mic singer. Richard made her lip sync more often than not. Very unusual for a vocalist of her calibre and skill.

Luther knew what true longing was.

Karen's most beautiful vocal is on For All We Know.

She was hungry for other things.

If only Bonnie Mace had shared that ham sandwich with her!

I was never into Karen as a teenager, but I've come to appreciate her talent.

[quote] Karen Carpenter was no Linda Ronstadt or Diana Ross - vocally, viscerally or intellectually

Truly there are few intellectual giants who can be the match of Diana Ross.

[quote]r186 Karen was not an attractive person and truth is that both Karen and Richard were very dull personalities

^ Yikes ^

[quote]R204 Karen's most beautiful vocal is on For All We Know. She was hungry for other things.

Like dinner.

Evan Peters IS Richard Carpenter

Of all the people who recorded Superstar, The Carpenters' version is the most famous. It's one of their signature songs. Karen's longing is present in her voice.

Too bad Karen didn't run for her life. She wasn't ugly, a little dental work and minor surgery and she could have been a solid 7.

I think her version of Superstar is gut wrenching because she wanted, and didn't have that experience.

She deserved better. But did she want it?

Her own idea of a solo project and future career was terrible.

Karen Carpenter had a gorgeous vocal tone and unique resonant quality that penetrated without reaching or force. She had a great diaphram that supported her beautitul breath control and trademark legato. (aka -she could sing long melodic phrases with vocal agility and meaningful interpretation without needing a breath or losing dynamics) Her vocal quality was so special that we NOW project greater meaning onto her voice. Her pitch was perfect and that's unusual, but not rare. She was just thought to have a pretty sad voice that came through with immediacy. People didn't seek out to categorize or evaluated voices in pop music so much back then. Her voice still has that effect today - when the song is not too drecked up. This Masquerade is always used in her bios for a reason. Like For All We Know and Rainy Days and Mondays - these songs can be enjoyed without much cringing.

Karen could perform well. But her recorded voice promised depth of feeling and musical complexity that she did not possess.

She sounds great here - she almost always sounded good to great. But her VOICE deserved better.

[quote] But her recorded voice promised depth of feeling and musical complexity that she did not possess.

She had plenty of both.

[quote]. But her VOICE deserved better.

She has a catalog of incredible songs, more than many other singers, in her brief career. Who the hell knows what she would have done had she lived.

Cher knows nothing about singing or phrasing. I don't think she can read or write. Sure as fuck doesn't understand lyrics. She poses her way through songs and lets her dark tone and heavy vibrato and wig choice convey the "emotion." BUT, she is a perfomer and a hustler. Not intelligent, but smart.

Karen wouldn't have done anything but tank further into irrelevanc and obscurity if she had lived. Her time was over several years before she died. She was mostly a cover artist by the time she died.

Karen Carpenter could have a great hit with Madonna's Live to Tell. Madonna was emulating KC as best she could in that great song. .

Why pick on Cher? She's had a 60 year career. Managed to escape her controlling husband and forge a new sound.

Listen to her atrocious "singing" of Superstar R217!!! Cher doesn't need defending. She wasn't controlled by anyone. She loved and used people who helped her growth and career. She is her own mythmaker. It's always been about her. Cher is a minor talent as a singer. She's 80 years old with the mind of a not very bright teenager.

She murders that song @ R216. That's why I posted it. Because we are discussing the song Superstar. And singers. Cher was once beautiful and is very rich. She had some charisma. Bitch had a long career thanks to gays with bad taste. Otherwise she would have been over 30 years ago. That's the most praise I will give her.

[quote]“Karen Carpenter was no Linda Ronstadt or Diana Ross“

So in your world she's nothing special unless she has big black flowing Afro and parachutes into a stadium wearing white fur.

Thank you, r216. Cher’s voice has always reminded me of a mid level lounge singer’s.

[quote] Karen Carpenter could have a great hit with Madonna's Live to Tell.

Or "Take a Bow."

[quote]She has a terrible affectation on her vowel sounds when she sings. And a sibilant sound, always.

THANK YOU. She's one of those singers that had a naturally melancholic tone, and thus seemed to be able to convey emotion, but her phrasing was SO cloying and off-putting most of the time. If she'd really been feeling those songs, she wouldn't have constantly leaned on those annoying affectations.

Karen Carpenter has been widely lauded for the melancholy emotion she brought to her songs.

[Quote] Too bad Karen didn't run for her life. She wasn't ugly

LMFAO

Cher never pretended to be a great singer, she isn't. She's barely passable. But she's a totally enjoyable performer!

I admire good singing, I admire good singers who are also good performers, but I also admire great performers who aren't good singers - like Cher and Mick Jagger.

As I was saying..... at least pick a reputable critic.

Vile BBC interview 1981

R218, I'll let Cher know about your praise. She was concerned.

R221, another Madonna connection. Her number one "Crazy For You" was written by John Bettis, who wrote three of the Carpenters hits.

The End Of The World

John Bettis also wrote "Human Nature" for Michael Jackson. He got a cut of the Thriller royalties so he must be loaded.

[quote]R229 Vile BBC interview 1981

Vile? The interview subject’s dying right in front of the journalist, and she isn’t buying the subject’s bullshit.

No one should have.

You sound like a wonderful person R234 .

Karen Carpenter was the Rock Hudson of fakeness. She had pop stardom but a false identity. She was a public fake and liar. In private she did all the things that anorexics do. She did nothing to help anyone in her life. When she was young - she did try to obey. Her mind rebelled.

Anorexia is a mental illness that most therapists won't touch. Because it is all about the manipulation and control of others. Lying. Very few want to get better.

There is a lot of vengeance involved with anorexics. Like all wired addictions it is defined by rituals and lying. Defensiveness and pleading. Cheating and RAGE. Karen was not pooped.

Karen had a mean bitch of a mother and a collosally strange brother. The seeds were sown. That's not a pass to be a dumb bitch for the rest of your life. She was techy, humorless and POOPED! She had help and money and some understanding. People were finally concerned. At the end - she was unlucky. Like a hot shot of heroin when you've been clean a few months. And she was using ipecac too. She didn't deserve to die, but neither did her illness require others to tiptoe or join in her pyschotic lies.

She couldn't be saved because she didn't want to change her life. She was unloved and incapable of maturing. She wouldn't last a day without people like R235.

Karen Carpenter's voice is more intriguing than Karen Carpenter. It's a trick of the ear.

The interviewer asked Karen if her weight got down to “6 stone.” Karen said she didn’t even know how much 6 stone was, then rolled her eyes. I thought it was odd that the interviewer wasn’t afraid to ask questions about the elephant (no pun intended) in the room, but then uses stone as a weight measurement. I try not to be US-centric, but if you’re going to confront someone, use their language.

6 stone is 84 pounds or 38 kilograms, BTW.

Is anyone else uncomfortable with this continued perception of people with autism, who are transgender and now here anorexics as evil and agents of chaos and deceit? Trust me, anorexics are completely wrapped up in denial and the path to self destruction to really give a fuck about anyone else, any lying and manipulation is about protecting the path they are on and achieving their goal of annihilating their body.

“6 stone is 84 pounds or 38 kilograms, BTW.“

Which the interviewer explains on the video.

[quote]Is anyone else uncomfortable with this continued perception of people with autism, who are transgender and now here anorexics as evil and agents of chaos and deceit?

Nah. I'm just trying to decide where to have lunch today.

[quote] Karen Carpenter could have a great hit with Madonna's Live to Tell. Or "Take a Bow."

Or Where's The Pate?

[quote] Would’ve been interesting to hear Karen sing less treacly songs.

It's not the songs, it's the production and arrangements.

According to Madonna, Rain was inspired by Karen Carpenter. You can even hear the influence in Madonnas vocals for it..

Where do i watch this?.????????

R238, I once heard a long interview with a former anorectic, who described her anorexia as "A knife in the heart of the family". People with anorexia don't starve themselves out of spite, they don't do it to pay back their controlling parents, but... they DO hurt their families terribly.

You can't seriously address mental illness or behavioral differences, without admitting that people with mental illnesses or neurodivergence can and DO hurt others. And that sometimes they cause pain in ways they can't help, and sometimes they cause pain in ways that they could stop if they chose, or deliberately.

[quote] And that sometimes they cause pain in ways they can't help, and sometimes they cause pain in ways that they could stop if they chose, or deliberately.

What?

Mentally ill or neurdivergent people can be assholes too, Rose at R246.

Karen was such a CUNT, you have to understand I had to put her in her place, so Richard's genius could shine.

Why did Richard Carpenter’s career go straight down the shitter?

He made Laurie Strode Michael Myers' sister. That's why!

^Oh Cuddles, SPEAK ENGLISH!!

Did Agnes’ pussy stink?? Well did it?

R93, R168...Your posts touched my heart. I thought she was truly beautiful as well LL. Though I'm a gay bloke, I see what you do; there was a sweet vulnerability to her, along with the tomboy aspect.

Though there are always detractors in the KC threads going on about her "horrible California accent", I adored her regular speaking voice as well. Until reading these threads, I really had no clue her manner of speaking was particularly, or strictly Californian, I simply knew I liked it. Other than a typical exaggerated "valley girl" accent, I wasn't really familiar with particular differences in Californians' speech at the time. (not American)

I think it came through in her music in a uniquely beautiful way she'd hold a certain note a bit longer, or accented certain syllables differently to most people.

I think Bette did the best “Superstar.” I always picture this sad, broken, deluded groupie. Her record was the best arrangement of the song too.

As someone noted, Karen’s version sounded so bubblegum in comparison.

I wish there was a clean copy of this performance around somewhere. Midler never sang this song live often.

Karen had the better vocals of course, but Midler understands the longing and pain of the song. Bette had a resonant reedy natural ache to her vocal tone that once was so affecting.

Superstar: It seems to be an accepted "fact" in the world that Karen didn't have any heart/soul, including many who post on DL. I love her, so I have a bias, and I think with the right arrangement, she was the best vocalist, and I'd include "Rainy Days" and "Superstar" in the "best of" mix.

Superstar is a song about a longing groupie, a groupie who's been with her idol, and longs for it again. Of the many singers besides Karen who covered it, sure it's a more believable lyric from Bette, Rita Coolidge, Cher, Vandross. No question, those artists bring a certain realism and logic to the lyrics and song.

YET Karen's version destroys all of those artists' versions. Not even close. I know the Carpenters got criticism for substituting the word "be" instead of "sleep." Again, so what. Doesn't matter. Detractors and their theories about another artists's version may very well be factually correct on paper, but, again, theories be damned, Karen's version, with Richard's correct arrangement, tops all of them.

Ironically, they got the idea of doing "Superstar" from watching Bette Midler perform it on Johnny Carson. A year later, Karen and Richard were handing Bette the Best New Artist Grammy..

They did a great job with certain songwriters, especially Leon Russell and Paul Williams.

Karen was such an odd choice for that song, it's sung form the POV of a "groupie", and Karen came across as prudish and/or virginal, but somehow she nailed it and it was a massive hit!

Of course that was partly because her voice was so melancholic, and she really excelled at slow material where she could extend a luscious phrase forever... but also because it ISN'T a song about a groupie, it's a song about an extremely naive girl! Someone clueless enough to believe that love and sex are the same, that a straight man will still be interested after he's put his pants back on, someone who isn't willing to accept that she's made a mistake, and who tries to convince herself it was true love because that's the only kind of acceptable sex. You can actually visualize a grown-up prude like Karen singing this about her younger self, still feeling regret and heartbreak all these years later, while a Bette Midler would be enjoying the bragging rights.

Exactly, R259. She was perhaps longing for what never was, or what was meant for just once, maybe a variation of the "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" lyric theme.

I can't remember where I read it, and if ANYONE was not a trash talker, it was Karen, and when someone queried her about the various versions, the differences, all of that, Karen said something like, "but WE have the gold record for it." A gold record isn't necessariy the definition of the best version, but I certainly believe it was in this case.

The Carpenters have the definitive version of Superstar.

Suicide Queen Karen Carpenter could take any song and turn it into a funeral dirge.

I just don’t buy when Karen Carpenter goes into the chorus. It’s a great sound with the layered voices, but the brass and Carpenter’s energy make it too celebratory for my taste.

The resolution of the song is at aids with that. Even the way she articulates “loneliness” is too careful and prim.

I prefer this version.

[quote] The resolution of the song is at aids with that.

Well, that’s a mess!

[italic] The desolation of the song is at odds with that.

How to not feel seduced by this? I have to admit it makes me feel a little weak - the voice, the 'commanding' presence in that outfit... makes me turn into a girly-girl with a crush and I can barely recognize myself (the irrationality of it all!)... it is THAT 'bad', you know?

R264, Ella was singing “live”, Karen was not.

They really padded Karen's outfit to try and disguise how skeletal she was in the clip with Ella.

I wish they would starved themselves for perfection. Dudes in my neck of the woods are FAT.

Karen is lip synching in the Ella Fitzgerald duet, while the great Fizgerald sings LIVE. Such disrespect and fakery.

Karen Carpenter lip synched most of the time - even in concert.

Karen duetting with Ella is great, even if she was lip-syncing. I love it when she starts singing My Funny Valentine in the video. It makes me wish Karen had recorded an album of standards.

One of my favorite recordings of hers is her cover of I Can Dream, Can't I? An absolutely sublime and haunting performance. There is a gnawing pain in her voice that's present in many of her songs, but it feels heightened here.

I think if Karen had lived she definitely would've recorded several standards albums, like Rod Stewart did and had great success with.

R270, I agree. She did a medley with Perry Como on one of his Christmas specials, and her voice just blends so well with his.

Richard wanted the album sound whenever he could. Karen, though, live, was also wonderful. There are a few youtube videos I've recently come across where they isolate her singing voice. It's just sublime.

If Karen had recovered and lived, the Carpenters would have enjoyed a revival in the 90s when the 70s were cool again. There probably would have been a tour and at least one new album. Things always come back around.

I agree that Superstar makes more sense if you imagine a naive girl who fucked a rock star and thought he'd fall in love with her. A hardened groupie would have been on to the next rock star. It's why Karen was perfect for the song--she really was that clueless and romantic in real life, which is why she never had a successful adult relationship.

I think there are other reasons she never had a successful adult relationship, R274, a lot of us suspect she was barking up the wrong tree for starters!

And who knows what her awful stifling family and egomaniacal brother did to her in private.

Voice for the ages, that even shined through Richard's schmaltzy arrangements.

To the poster above who shared the Sonic Youth version. I also enjoy that version very much, an excellent take. I still prefer Karen's version, I think maybe for some of the reasons you didn't. Her stretching out the word "loneliness" is authentic to me, and accurately tells her story of the naive groupie. I remember when I was younger, and the song was actually on the radio rotation, what a thrill it was to hear the opening notes. When I'd play the song at home, I'd try my damndest to pretend or to manipulate the very specific groupie lyrics to my own youthful crushes.

The painful melancholy of her voice contrasted with Richard's saccharine arrangements makes the music more tragic to me.

Funny that Richard never did much after Karen died. He did one album a few years later with Dionne Warwick, Dusty Springfield and a few others but that was pretty much it. I wonder why he didn't do more producing/arranging for other artists.

"I wonder why he didn't do more producing/arranging for other artists."

Good question! Was he too schmaltzy to be popular within the industry, or too egotistical to work with artists he couldn't push around?

I know he did concerts, but don't even have enough interest to look on YouTube.

He produced three albums for other artists, they were Japanese singer Akiko Kobayashi, Véronique Béliveau, and Scott Grimes.

Here is a song from Véronique's album

This one's from the album with Akiko.

Scott Grimes

^cheese, cheese, and more cheese.

r282 that's not really the point. Why didn't Richard work with established American/British artists in the 80s/90s? He was very well-known.

Richard’s extreme gayface kept him from rising in the industry.

Karen and Richard were lovers

Karen dated Mark Harmon when he was hot as fuck.

Karen dated the toilet bowl.

Her one and only long term relationship!

Karen Carpenter had some degree of friendship with Olivia Newton-John and Dionne Warwick---which has been discussed already.

R392, And Petula Clark.

^R292

Here's an old blind item about Agnes getting kicked out of the studio when the Carpenters were guests on the Carol Burnett Show. If this story is true, then I can only imagine how Agnes must have reacted to being told to leave, she must have cunted up a storm.

One of the best songs ever recorded by Karen Carpenter was Neil Sedaka's "Solitaire", though it wasn't a huge pop hit on the Top 40 chart.

That same year, Johnny Mathis recorded the song for one of his albums - his recording is different, and almost as good as KC's. He has different lyrics and a different arrangement - more lush and romantic.

Jane Olivor's version from her album at the same time is quite good, but it comes across more as a 'cabaret' song.

And then there's Cher's version - performed on her variety show back then. What can I say except her costume is way more interesting than her version of the song (which she gives an odd country twang to on some verses).

"Solitaire" was kind of a turning point for the Carpenters. Up until then, almost all their songs were top ten (mostly top five). Solitaire broke that streak, peaking at # 17. Also, Neil Sedaka , who wrote the song, became their opening act on tour, but began upstaging them, so they fired him, which brought all kinds of bad publicity. To make matters worse, Sedaka's composition "Love Will Keep Us Together" became a huge hit for new act Captain and Tennille, who for a short while began to eclipse Karen and Richard. So, I doubt they considered Neil their good luck charm.

Dionne must not have been a good friend or her psychic friends would have forewarned her of Karen’s impending collapse and she could have had an ambulance on standby to revive her.

R297, Neil Sedaka made the mistake of introducing Tom Jones, who was sitting in the audience one evening, during his opening act.

It was Richard who threw a fit and fired Neil that night after the show.

Not enough Tom Jones could raise Karen off the comode.

Did Tom Jones dick Richard and Karen?

Why would Tom be interested in that bag of bones and her ugly brother?

Tom Jones is no fag.

Richard and Neil Sedaka hated each other. I get the impression that Richard was an easy person to dislike.

I've never thought Tom Jones was attractive at all.

R305, He is from the waist down.

R299, Richard felt that any celebrities attending the show should be introduced by him or Karen, not the opening act, which Neil was.

Sedaka has an ego that knows no bounds. (What kind of father performs a song called "Having My Baby" with his own daughter?!) At some point during the tour, he demanded HE be made the headliner and Carpenters as the opening act. Just because he had struck lucky with "Laughter in the Rain", execs wanted to capitalize on Sedaka's new found popularity, so he was quickly partnered with Carpenters tour. Richard was understandably protective of the business side of their career and Sedaka was threatening that. They actually had a loud verbal confrontation backstage before a concert, with an audience seated. It had nothing to do with them being upstaged and did not lead to bad publicity. It was a bad pairing to begin with.

I think those who say negative remarks about Richard already have their minds set to dislike him. A lot of the bullshit projects put out by this Schmidt asshole is a "Fuck You" to Richard because he refused to go all Fox News, tell-all tabloid with their story. There is such a thing as showing respect for the dead. Don't believe everything you read. There's a lot of sensationalized crap out there.

That "Having My Baby" song is really creepy.

R308, Richard has also always been carefully respectful of his mother’s memory, given all that’s been written negatively about her.

What a mama’s boy pansy

Thank you, Richard at R308.

R308

That was Paul Anka.

Richard at R308, this thread isn't about you. But since you're here, how does it feel knowing that no one, and I mean absolutely no one, likes you? Can you also see that your mama was a monster? I hope you can.

Richard will never say a word against his mother, R314, not as long as he lives!

She was not only his biggest fan, she was his only fan...

I wonder if Karen was already through with Burris by the day of the wedding. She seems distracted during the ceremony. And the veil covering her face the whole time is odd:

"The couple settled in Newport Beach. Carpenter desperately wanted children, but Burris had undergone a vasectomy without telling her before the marriage had been arranged and refused to get an operation to reverse it. Their marriage did not survive this disagreement and ended after 14 months. Burris was living beyond his means, borrowing up to $50,000 (the equivalent of $149,000 in 2021) at a time from his wife, to the point where reportedly she had only stocks and bonds left. Carpenter's friends also indicated he was impatient. Karen Kamon, a close friend, recounted an incident in which she and Carpenter went to their normal hangout, Hamburger Hamlet, and Carpenter appeared to be distant emotionally, sitting not at their regular table but in the dark, wearing large dark sunglasses, unable to eat and crying. According to Kamon, the marriage was "the straw that broke the camel's back. It was absolutely the worst thing that could have ever happened to her.

In September 1981, Carpenter revised her will and left her marital home and its contents to Burris, but left everything else to her brother and parents, including her fortune estimated at 5–10 million dollars (between $15,000,000 and $30,000,000 in 2021). Two months later, following an argument after a family dinner in a restaurant, Carpenter and Burris broke up. Carpenter filed for divorce on October 28, 1982, while she was in Lenox Hill Hospital."

How can I watch the full show? Or has it not aired?

Sue Lawley is the biggest cunt of all time.

Her fight song

Hey hateful dyke @ R314 , someone else brought up Neil Sedaka and started singing his praises, in addition to acting like this Schmidt character is "getting out the truth" so I thought I would tell the other side of the story. This is a message board where people will discuss a variety of topics related to any given thread's individual subject within that thread. You don't like what I said, tough fuck cunt; the hate in your spewed comment was unnecessary. Maybe I don't like Melissa Etheridge and The Indigo Girls, but I keep my mouth shut (till now anyway). I've never had a problem with you before, Lipstick Lesbian, but now? Waddle off with your cane and go masturbate with a chainsaw up your twat and die bitch. 🖕