Cindy Williams is DEAD TO ME!

Damm! That’s pretty young for a health nut . Awe sad

So sad. But perhaps we should be asking who WILL SURVIVE 2023!

I assume Cyndi Grecco will be singing at the funeral. I doubt she has much else to do.

Just got home and saw this. Damn, that really sucks. RIP, Cindy.

"Pothead!"

I just recently rewatched The Conversation. She was terrific in it.

Has Boo Boo Kitty commented?

We'll miss you, Shirl.

She went from rags to riches!

So I guess Lenny's the last one standing now.

Someone check on Joyce DeWitt!

Stupid show, but beloved characters.

R10 The Lone Wolf…

Awwww. That’s a shame. She was so good as Murray’s wife.

Wow, that’s very sad. That age, 73, seems young.

No… NO!

Doin' it our way!!!

R12 The show was hilarious in its time. It did lose a lot of its quality in the later seasons, though.

I still remember being a kid and watching the episode where the girls needed money to attend a fancy party so they could try and meet rich men. They volunteered to do medical experiments to pay for the party. Laverne did a sleep deprivation study, and Shirley did a food deprivation study.

I laughed until I cried when Shirley pounced on the cracker that fell on the floor.

Her long Archive of American Television interview is very interesting.

Just, awwwwww.

Her age was 75, reported earlier as 73 and then corrected. I wonder if her death was Covid related.

What sudden illness?

I told her that move to Hollywood would wind up killing her!

She should have stayed in Milwaukee!

R22 No, apparently she had cancer.

R23 Brief illness, not sudden illness.

Lots of 60s/70s tv people dying this month. Will Tina Louise make it through tomorrow???

She was in a ridiculous TV movie with Markie Post and John Ritter that you can catch on Tubi. (Lesbians, you'll enjoy Post's slutty wardrobe.) It's shocking to think they're all gone.

Nudies!

Vo-De-O-Dead.

She is Kate Hudson former step-mother.

Loved her in the Steel Magnolias series, except for season 7 when she played a ghost.

I had no clue she was married to Bill Hudson and had kids with him.

Bill Hudson forgot on occasion. Hence, the divorce.

R19 truly a hilarious scene. I loved this show when I was a kid. She was a gifted comedienne who deserved a better career after L and S. It’s mind boggling she and Penny couldn’t snag one Emmy nomination during its seven years on air. I guess the Academy considered it too low brow.

One of my guilty pleasures is More American Graffiti. She was fine in the first one, but I find her better in the second, even though critics panned it and the public stayed away. She and Ron Howard had great chemistry, and Richie and Shirley using profanity is still funny to me.

Bill Hudson got involved in Cindy's career and turned Laverne and Shirley into a fiasco. Cindy finally left the show. She and Penny didn't speak for years but eventually reconciled. Their joint interview with the Academy (linked above) is really fun to watch.

She was a much better actress than she was given credit for. I saw her in 'Travels With My Aunt", "The Conversation" and "American Graffiti" and she was very good in all of them. "Laverne and Shirley" made her a star but it pretty much doomed her to no longer being considered a seriousl actress but slapstick comedienne. She was very talented, and I think, under appreciated. May she rest in peace.

I hate it when they don't tell you what the person died from.

[Quote] I hate it when they don't tell you what the person died from.

Me, too!

R38 Apparently, it was cancer.

I seem to remember hearing Cindy and Penny would hang out on the regular toward the end of Penny’s life.

What kind of cancer?

R36, I saw that joint interview. Glad that Penny just told it like it was: Bill Hudson (Cindy's then-husband) was a meddling pain in the ass.

I liked Cindy as Shirley. I think it was smart of her to drop the NY accent (Shirley's) and be more of a contrast to Laverne.

Oh dear, first the unfortunate Steele Magnolias TV series and now this.

R36 I remember Penny discussing his influence on the relationships and conditions of the production. I think she never speaks his name, but lays a lot of the conflict on him.

I remember reading once that there was a lot of tension, and line counting (to see who spoke how many lines in each script), it sounds generally miserable.

Cindy sings Baby Love in More American Graffiti. In this case more was less.

I was in line at the pharmacy and when I read this I GASPED!! and did the clutch pearl move to my neck.

The gay man in line behind me said "Bad news about your family?"

I said "Shirley from Laverne and Shirley died" and he too GASPED!

Has Oliver Hudson commented on Step Moms passing? ....Have any of Kates multiple baby daddies released a statement?

Cindy for Foster Grant

R36 she was pregnant at the time she left, and the producers wanted her to work right up until her due date. Cindy didn’t want to work that much into her pregnancy. Penny told her she would do all the slapstick and physical stuff, while Cindy could just sit and lay there in character, but she quit anyway. The producers weren’t accommodating at all to her plight. Hudson might’ve been behind the lawsuit they filed, which was settled out of court though.

R48 were you in front of the Princess Di Dead Queen?

Laverne's NY accent was explained by saying that Laverne and her father moved from NY to Milwaukee when Laverne was a kid. She and Shirley met each other in school.

This is a direct link to the joint interview with Cindy and Penny. It was nice they made up and became friends again.

“ I seem to remember hearing Cindy and Penny would hang out on the regular toward the end of Penny’s life.

—Anonymous that made me smile 😊

“Betty, please…” 😢😢😢

Busybody cancer, r42, you might want to get tested.

PICKUP BETTY

R52 Yes! I heard the slo mo scream!

I was a kid when "Laverne & Shirley" was first on & thought it was hilarious, MUCH funnier than "Happy Days." Have never re-watched it, but still relish belly laughs it gave me way back when...

RIP

Predictions for the next two celebrity deaths- Mel Brooks and Lesley Ann Warren

This is just karma because I left a great comment on her Instagram once and she didn’t Like it.

R48

Somehow, with all the drama, this is cute.

But yeah, I get it, too.

Cindy and Bill Hudson.

Has Susan Dey commented?

She was fantastic in American Graffiti. Her non-verbal acting in that was hilarious.

r65 see r14

In loving memory I will rewatch the episode in which Shirley teaches Laverne to drive by recreating the car experience in their living room. An LP is the wheel, a banana is the gear shift, can of corn is the clutch. Ever earnest Shirley: "Let's go. Depress your corn and shift your banana." Already good. But watch for when Laverne pisses her off, Shirley has had enough of Laverne's not taking it seriously so Shirley storms out of the car and slams the imaginary door. Priceless. I bet that was Cindy's addition to the bit. RIP.

Got to meet her and Penny Marshall at CHILLER in Jersey. Have "Laverne & Shirley" Season 1 signed and Penny added "Betty Please!". Cindy told me in the episode where Shirley lines the plates of food up her arm wasn't in the script but she just did it because she had been a waitress and knew how to do it.

R48's comment reminded that I was in a hair cutting place (National chain) when Betty White died. For the next 45 minutes I was there the Queen "hair tech" would glide up to the new arrivals and say "Well my day is ruined." Then he would get the obligatory "Oh?" Then he would say "Betty White just died."

Worked with her in the 1990s. She was not quite as nice as you might think.

*

Michael McKean is the only one left.

[quote]Worked with her in the 1990s. She was not quite as nice as you might think.

Maybe it was you.

Who had Williams on their 2023 Bingo death card ?

So the cycle begins again: Lisa Loring, Cindy Williams, who will be the third TV actress ?

Meredith Baxter Lesbian?

In the next several years we're going to see one Boomer celeb death after another. The older Boomers are all in their 70s now.

Adam Rich another ABC 70’s TV

....

Has Leslie Easterbrook commented?

You bitches won't be laughing if Susan Dey dies next.

[quote]Loved her in the Steel Magnolias series, except for season 7 when she played a ghost.

There was a Steel Magnolias series? And it went 7 seasons? How have I never heard of this?

R71 I’d be interested knowing about your experience working with her. Was she jaded and demanding?

r71, let's hear some details...she won't know you spilled the beans.

James Burrows wrote in his memoir that Laverne and Shirley fell apart because Penny Marshall’s brother Garry got involved in the show and other relatives were on the writing staff and production and Williams felt she didn’t have any input. Burrows wrote that the problems seemed insurmountable so he walked away. He wrote that it was a big mistake and should’ve stuck around and supported her.

Friend of mine and her husband wrote some of the scripts for Laverne and Shirley. Times gone by.

[quote] Has Leslie Easterbrook commented?

Fuck that. Has Leslie Jordan commented?

God, I hated "More American Graffiti." It was SO bad. Ron Howard and CIndy WIlliams, so good as a couple in the first movie, come across as unbearable in MAG. In "American Graffiti" they were Steve and Laurie; in "More American Graffiti" they were Richie and Shirley. both comic buffoons. That was so fucked up.

[quote]You bitches won't be laughing if Susan Dey dies next.

I won't be laughing, r81, and I certainly won't be commenting.

Stop the dying! I can’t fucking stand it!

I loved the scene in R47. I don't remember much else about the film, though.

Such sad news. What a brutal month for losses!

I was genuinely disappointed when I realized this was Cindy Willians and not Cindy ADAMS. The Wednesday Addams stories got me confused.

I always liked Laverne and Shirley. I thought they were very gifted physical comediennes, and I always liked the theme song.

Penny died a few months after she turned 75 too.

[quote]You bitches won't be laughing if Susan Dey dies next.

No, we'll remain silent.

Boom Boom go the Boomers.

My goddamn cat stares at me like ' can I eat your face yet?'

I wonder if these Hollywood types favor cremation. I'm thinking Julian Sands had the right idea.

My dad was a chronic alcoholic, smoked 3 packs a day & made it to 75. Damn. She went too soon.

[quote]Adam Rich another ABC 70’s TV

Also Lance Kerwin and Lisa Loring this month. Weird co-incidence both Lance and Lisa were at the last CHILLER this past October.

This one really hurts

And yet still Keanu walks amongst us.

Ironic that both 'Laverne and Shirley' died at 75, and 'Mary and Rhoda' both died at age 80.

R55…from People Magazine..

“It was a show about happiness and, in the end, that was everyone’s goal,” said Williams. She added, “I go to Penny’s house I get in bed with her and we watch TV. She’s like my sister.”

[Quote]I hate it when they don't tell you what the person died from.

What business is that of yours and what difference does it make R38? You sound like trash.

If only Laverne and Shirley hadn't crashed and burned. First they totally fucked it up by moving the cast to California. Then Cindy Williams left and they had her character leave the show in such a dreadful, simply cutting and running without even saying goodbye to her lifelong best friend Laverne. And then the show just limped along with Penny Marshall as Laverne. I wish the show had had a proper finale. I would liked to have seen the show end in Milwaukee, with both Laverne and Shirley marrying, but not to the rich, upper class guys they allowed wanted to hook up with. I would liked to have seen them marry two blue collar guys and live happily ever after.

Oh hi r104 welcome to a gossip forum!

[quote]I would liked to have seen them marry two blue collar guys and live happily ever after.

Laverne could finally give into her urges and make the lez-lez with Big Rosie Greenbaum.

This thread has been surprisingly kind and respectful.

Damn, that was a hot piece of ass.

I see someone touched a very, very sore spot of r104.

She was a big Republican. Perhaps she chose not to get vaccinated.

If anyone was doing the lez let it was Sgt. Alvinia T. Plout!

An alarming amount of "short illnesses" have been snatching a lot of people up lately; get screened, folks.

So "short illness" is code for Covid?

Actors like Cindy Williams die when Keanu Reeves still walks among us.

Me-OW! Would love to know THIS story.

[quote]I know I write often how nice folks who've passed away were when they joined us at Chiller. But Cindy Williams stood tall amongst anyone to ever join us. [bold]Spent the entire weekend apologizing for Penny Marshall.[/bold] RIP

Penny Marshall was sick and her mind was kind of addled in the last years of her life.

gasp

Apologizing could just mean because she wasn’t there

I didn’t like that Shirley married some random guy instead of poor The Big Ragu

Cindy really had great comic timing--she really made that show work. She really needed Marshall to play off of, but she was about five times funnier than Marshall was.

[quote]It’s mind boggling she and Penny couldn’t snag one Emmy nomination during its seven years on air. I guess the Academy considered it too low brow.

And yet they gave an Emmy to John Ritter for "Three's Company" for doing basically all the same things that Penny and Cindy were doing every week on "L&S." And I don't point that out as a swipe against Ritter (who of course was great on "TC") but rather just to say that, to R35's point, Penny and Cindy were every bit as deserving as Ritter and yet were always ignored. Made no sense.

I wonder if Garry Marshall or ABC had some behind-the-scenes deal with the TV academy *not* to nominate either of them for an Emmy. They were already competitive to the point of counting the number of lines each character had. Can you imagine if one had been nominated but not the other? Or they both get nominated and one wins? The show would probably never have survived the fallout.

Nice words from Ron Howard.

This from the NY Times is very poignant. Her professional goals were never quite achieved: “And that was sort of my life, too.”

“She was sort of an optimist, kindhearted, repressed, temperamental, fun-loving person,” Ms. Williams once said of her character. “I always saw her as having this fear,” she added, noting that while Shirley’s desires were never explicitly played out onscreen, both Laverne and Shirley strove for the comforts of modern life.

“That was the sadness of those characters to me,” Ms. Williams added. “What if that never happens, then where are we? And that was sort of my life, too.”

Why didn't she do more films? Did doing a popular long running sitcom ruin her chances of film stardom?

Sally Field and others went on to film stardom after doing TV series.

What film roles could Williams have done?

r126 I think she could have pursued films after AG and The Conversation, but after the Happy Days guest spot and L&S, that was that.

Sally Field had a long run after Flying Nun when she was not taken seriously. Sally in Norma Rae was shocking to people. The Flying Nun can act?!

But Cindy was far too old to pursue films when she left L&S. She had also had very young children and she was far too associated with Shirley Feeney.

However, had she pursued movies instead of L&S I can easily imagine her as Wendy in The Shining.

While she rarely did them, she was great in dramatic roles.

She did an L&O (or one of the versions of it) and was great.

[quote]And yet they gave an Emmy to John Ritter for "Three's Company" for doing basically all the same things that Penny and Cindy were doing every week on "L&S."

I don't think they were ever nominated in the same category.

She did "The Drowsy Chaperone" on Broadway for a while, replacing Jo Ann Worley in mid-December, 2007. That was her Broadway debut (at age 60). It's too bad she didn't do more Broadway in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s. She was a gifted actress of many talents that would've transferred nicely to the Broadway stage.

[quote]I was a kid when "Laverne & Shirley" was first on & thought it was hilarious, MUCH funnier than "Happy Days." Have never re-watched it, but still relish belly laughs it gave me way back when...

I remember watching this show as a kid. Marshall & Williams had great chemistry - Shirley was needy & Laverne was grating but between the two of them, they made it work.

R127 btw Sally is 2 years older than Cindy and Marsha Mason is 5 years older than Williams. Timing had a lot to do with it as well. During the time Williams was doing a sitcom 1976-82 Fields and Mason were doing some of their best work in films.

R115, we heard you at r101.

(^.^) 'we' needs to get laid

IIRC the first time Sally Field was taken seriously as an actress was when she played the title role in the TV movie of SYBIL (based on the best-selling book). That's what led her to good film roles.

And I think this was the same time that she and Burt Reynolds were having their much-publicized affair. Ironically, though Burt wasn't doing many serious film roles then, his A-list status as a movie star pulled Sally along.

[quote] During the time Williams was doing a sitcom 1976-82 Fields and Mason were doing some of their best work in films.

It's Sally FIELD.

Not FIELDS.

Your stunt cock is here.

[quote]But perhaps we should be asking who WILL SURVIVE 2023!

Oh god, please not me.

That was the big one, r135, but Maybe I'll Come Home in the Spring was her first breakout drama.

There are several L/S episodes that still make me laugh, but I especially love:

When they try to be high fashion models. They go to an agency and the woman at the desk asks to see their portfolios. Cindy replies: "We lost them."

And when Lenny & Squiggy [OMG I just realized they are also L/S!] wrote the girls' phone number on a bathroom wall. Two college guys show up and try to put the make on them. The physical comedy (Cindy and actor Bruce Kimmel) end up in a clinch, standing up, lying down, and eventually rolling off the counch onto the floor.

[quote]Maybe I'll Come Home in the Spring was her first breakout drama.

That fucking vacuum cleaner gave the breakout performance in that film.

R105

Well, that would've been Lenny and Squiggy.

Wonder how that would've been?

The California episodes had a few underrated gems ...

• Laverne gets drunk at work off rum balls from Bardwell's candy counter: "Do you know what this is, Laverne? Great big gobs of SATAN SAUCE!"

• The girls take a nightmare vacation at Raoul's by the Sea: "Shirl, we ain't got no wall!"

• Two Brit pop stars get L&S high and talk them into getting married as a tax shelter: "I'd like to be married by my spiritual name: Star Monkey!"

My favorite line from a California episode: "It's 'Squiggy.' Andrew's my baby name."

Squiggy: We'd like to borrow some sheets.

Laverne: What's the matter with *your* sheets?

Squiggy: They're hard.

Shirley: [bold]GET OUT![/bold]

R75 Annie Wersching, a TV actress, died on Sunday.

Not Quite South of the Border aka Raoul’s By The Sea was actually from the last season they were still in Milwaukee though it doesn’t really matter since it was a vacation episode. It’s one of my favorites though it gets chopped down to nothing in syndication

I didn’t know they were still on in syndication.

It still pops up sometimes in syndication. I think Logo was running it a year or two back. I just remember catching the Raoul’s By The Bay episode in the last few years and noticing how much had been cut to squeeze in more commercials. I’d buy the DVDs but those are apparently edited as well.

I’d bet money Antenna or Decades or one of the mesothelioma rerun channels will run a Laverne & Shirley marathon this weekend to remember Cindy. One of the others will do The Addams Family for Lisa Loring

Pluto has Seasons 1–5.

Goofy’s friend?

R146 But could she have done films?

A clip from the hurricane episode. So funny. I remember watching this when it aired.

'Dead Lazlo's'

Laverne and Shirley was an updated version of Lucy and Ethel. It was very popular and enjoyable.

Sort of sweet dorky show - I much prefer Ab Fab, but I guess for America and for its time, it was ok. I had friends who loved it, Barney Miller, Welcome Back Kotter, etc. in high school and I just rolled my eyes a lot. But they all hated Monty Python which I loved.

I'm so glad they got back together as friends.

Well, they're back together as something.....

☝🏼 and friends in next world

I wish the TV version of Steel Magnolias had been picked up. She was a great choice for M'Lynn and it would have been a great comeback for her. RIP

Betty, please.

[quote]Goofy’s friend?

TRIGGERED.

r150 Sorry -- Decades is running a binge of "The Royal Family" and "That's My Mama" this weekend.

I remember someone quoted Lucy from an interview back then, in which she said that "Laverne and Shirley" was a rip-off of 'Lucy and Ethel', and she wasn't too happy with their series. There were plenty of television comedies in the 70s that Lucy found fault with (especially 'All In The Family' and 'Maude') but one of her favorites was 'Three's Company'.

Lucy had awful taste.

[quote]R156 Laverne and Shirley was an updated version of Lucy and Ethel.

How? By showing two women who were friends?

It’s hardly as if “I Love Lucy” invented slapstick comedy.

[quote] Lucy had awful taste.

I take issue with that statement.

Lucy was slatternly. On her shows and interviews both. Loud, brash megalomaniac who was so insecure she made poor Vivian weigh 20 pounds extra, wear shit clothes, be married to that oaf, and have the name Ethel. I don't know how our Saint Vivian put up with that. The female Jerry Lewis or Jackie Gleason?

Anyway, Penny and Cindy were high art, comparatively. Hell, so was Roseanne. Well, really, everybody.

Shirley thinks she's a stripper named Roxy LaTour after bumping her head and mistakes Laverne for a fan who wants her autograph ...

Laverne: Shirley?

Shirley: "To Shirley ..."

Laverne: [bold]Laverne.[/bold]

Shirley: ... Laverne. "To Shirley Laverne" ... I like that name! You know, kid, you could strip with a name like that!

“I treat my body like a temple, Laverne. You choose to treat yours like an amusement park.”

All those drugs Laverne took, and they both only made it to 75

When your kids call you funny in the death announcement, I believe it. I use this as a barometer of what people really think of the dead. Oh sure, devoted, loving, but funny? That's when I know you were good people.

“The passing of our kind, hilarious mother, Cindy Williams, has brought us insurmountable sadness that could never truly be expressed,” the statement said. “Knowing and loving her has been our joy and privilege. She was one of a kind, beautiful, generous and possessed a brilliant sense of humor and a glittering spirit that everyone loved.”

[quote] It’s hardly as if “I Love Lucy” invented slapstick comedy.

No, but I believe 'Lucy and Ethel' were the first two women on television to work together on a sitcom doing slapstick. As funny as 'Lavenre and Shirley' was, the writers did borrow heavily from 'I Love Lucy'. I can understand Lucy's disinterest because of that.

Twenty years before I Love Lucy, Patsy Kelly and Thelma Todd did a series of short subjects about two women getting involved in nutty, slapstick situations. (After Thelma Todd died, Zasu Pitts replaced her).

So a Bronx cheer to Lucille.

R174 - Good try, but it wasn't a weekly television sitcom that ran for multiple seasons like "I Love Lucy" (and later "Laverne & Shirley") did , playing to millions of TV viewers each week.

The difference being that Viv was second banana and Laverne and Shirley were equals. It wasn't called the Lucy & Viv Show.

R156 is correct.

Creator Garry Marshall, who had worked with Lucille Ball on The Lucy Show, envisioned the show as a ‘70s version of I Love Lucy. At the time, no one was doing low physical comedy on television and he saw an opportunity.

R176 I don't think it's a major difference. You have a weekly sitcom where two female best friends get into predictaments each week (usually involving the opposite sex) and get into physical, slapstick comedy to make the TV audience laugh. That was the premise of ILL and 25 years later with L&S.

Major, r178? I don't know. But there's definitely *a* difference.

And to add...Lucy went on without Viv. Laverne was not as successful without Shirley.

But yes, r178, same dynamic within that genre.

And let's not forget her in The First Nudie Musical!

I remember seeing Cindy first in the short-lived musical/comedy TV show called "The Funny Side," which featured five couples of different ages/ethnicities/relationships and Gene Kelly as the host. Cindy was paired with DL fave Michael Lembeck as the "Teenage Couple." (Her character was known only as "Teenage Wife." The other couples included "Mama's Family" creators Dick Clair and Jenna McMahon as the "Wealthy Couple," and John Amos and Teresa Graves as the "Minority Couple." It only lasted for six episodes.

JFC you queens can remember every single episode of every single tv show you ever watched.

If we couldn't, you'd accuse us of having Alzheimer's, r184.

It's why I love Datalounge, R184.

We're just adding to the communal memory bank.

Growing up, I always loved Penny and Laverne, but as I've gotten older I've really come to appreciate how well they worked together and how much William's comedic gifts made everything work so well. I feel like Marshall and Williams' comedy was much more physical than Lucy and Viv's, but I could be wrong, but I feel like they were doing more stunts that required more elaborate physicality, especially since Marshall was a dancer, Williams was very lithe and their costuming was much less physically restrictive than Lucy and Viv's.

r188...

and...

Lucy wanted to play Mindy in Mork & Mindy but Gary Morton and Gary Marshall both told her not to do it.

I don't think "I Love Lucy" and "Laverne and Shirley" were in any way alike. Lucy and Ethel were MARRIED, for God's sake.. They were two stereotypical females from the 50s; housewives, dependent on their husbands. They were gossipy and into shopping and other feminine interests. Laverne and Shirley were blue collar younger single women who made their own living. They did have feminine dreams of marrying a nice well off man and moving up in the world. But I don't see how any comparison can be made between Lucy and Ethel and Laverne and Shirley except for friendship.

Rehearsing with Ron Howard American Graffiti

[quote]R192 I don't see how any comparison can be made between Lucy and Ethel and Laverne and Shirley except for friendship.

Me, either. You could say the duos had some commonalities, but the dynamics were totally different… not to mention that Laverne & Shirley had a larger regular cast.

For chrissakes, stop being nitpicky. They're the same female buddy dynamic in the physical comedy genre. That's it.

Yes. I’m objecting to r156 calling L&S “an updated version of Lucy and Ethel.”

Same dynamic and genre, r196. Also not that updated.

R195 No

MeTv is doing a tribute to Cindy Williams on Sunday, showing of block of L&S episodes that were favorites of hers. I plan to watch. RIP, Cindy/Shirley.

r198 Yes

[quote]MeTv is doing a tribute to Cindy Williams on Sunday, showing of block of L&S episodes that were favorites of hers

I knew one of my mesothelioma channels would come through!

R199, and Decades is doing the same for Lisa Loring, showing a block of Addams Family episodes.

How's your vaginal mesh, r201?

Thankfully no vaginal mesh. Just living my best life wrapped in my adowable Shriners blanket propped up on MyPillow with my LifeAlert at the ready.

Don't forget your SuperBeets.

Nooooo! We are losing everyone! 😢

After reading this thread, I have a new respect for Cindy Williams as an actress.

A bunch of Laverne and Shirley episodes are streaming on Pluto TV. Pluto doesn't have a search function so best to Google the show and go from there.

I love the hot sailor dancing with Laverne in the first season's opening theme song.

I'm surprised no one posted Cindy's Star Wars audition for Princess Leia.

Cindy was sounded ridiculous saying the dialogue from "Star Wars." She was too authentic and real for science fiction.

r209 she sounded like she had no idea what the fuck she was talking about, and she later admitted she didn't Carrie Fisher had it in the bag. She took the complex dialogue and made it sound real and she came across as quite intelligent.

Remember, we're all so used to science fiction and fantastical dialogue today, but back then it was very strange. Hearing that dialogue from a 1976 perspective must've sounded so bizarre but Carrie sold it.

I loved the audition scene with Ronnie Howard posted above. That was a great scene in the American Graffiti movie!

]quote] She took the complex dialogue and made it sound real and she came across as quite intelligent.

Oh, please. Many a young actress could have played that role well enough. I think Carrie Fisher got it because she a very noticeable bitchy quality to her that suited the characters. Princess Leia was a bitch and so was Fisher.

r212 you weren't paying attention. She was actually more subdued in that audition than in the movie. She just hit all the right notes.

The dialogue in "Star Wars" was "complex?" It was just science fiction babble.

[quote]Many a young actress could have played that role well enough.

They tested many, many young actresses and couldn't find Princess Leia until Carrie came along. Other audition tapes are out there and most of the other actresses they auditioned just couldn't make the dialogue seem real or they were too intense.

r214 it was difficult to say and make believable. All of the actors in the Star Wars films have spoken of this.

[quote] They tested many, many young actresses and couldn't find Princess Leia until Carrie came along.

Whatever. CIndy Williams may have not been right to play the bitchy Leia but she was a far more talented actress than Carrie Fisher.

Who cares r218. She wasn't right for Star Wars but Carrie was perfect.

[quote] Who cares

Obviously YOU do. At any rate, "perfect" Carrie was much less talented than Cindy Williams. Fisher was a one note act, very limited.

R220 "Carrie was much less talented than Cindy Williams. Fisher was a one note act, very limited. "

Most people would consider Cindy Williams a one-note act as well.

Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia will live forever.

One thing I've learned here is you do NOT fuck with the eldergays when it comes to their beloved 1970s tv shows. They watched every tv show in the 70s and still have an intense connection to them, still watch them all the time and have an encyclopedic memory of every scene and can tell you who all the guest stars were on any given episode.

I can't remember a fucking thing about an SVU episode I watched last month.

[quote] Most people would consider Cindy Williams a one-note act as well.

Only if they're ignorant of her work in films like "The Conversation" and "American Graffiti." Ever heard of those movies? I guess you haven't.

Early onset Alzheimer's, r223?

"American Graffiti?" That one of those movies about Boomers masturbating to themselves, right?

R224 Oh I've heard of them alright

R223, remember we Elders spent time growing up in a world of five or six channels. Independent stations would rerun the hell out of these old sitcoms. They’re etched in our brains.

As for SVU, I have hell of a time remembering those episodes too.

Doesn't really matter. Her one note made her a beloved TV icon. Carrie is only iconic for one thing and while it may have been on the big screen, after that she was relegated to supporting roles doing *her* one note thing. It was a pleasure to have experienced work from them both.

[quote]Carrie is only iconic for one thing

Yeah, the most famous films in cinema history and a cultural phenomenon. Not too shabby.

{quote] Yeah, the most famous films in cinema history and a cultural phenomenon. Not too shabby.

Oh, give it a rest, you pathetic fangurl. You're only embarassing yourself further.

Crazy that Penny Marshall smoked about 10” cigarettes a day and did all the drugs in the world and yet they both lived to the exact same age.

100 whoops not 10. 10 would be sort of ok.

It's true r231.

Has anyone mentioned "Travels With My Aunt," with the always wonderful Alec McCowen, and of course Maggie Smith?

A lot of the Penny Marshall interviews are popping up on my YouTube stream. I didn't realize it, but she does seem like she profited quite a bit from being Garry Marshall's sister. She constantly name drops. At this point, I think Cindy was more talented (at least as far as acting and comedy).

[quote]r236 I didn't realize it, but Penny does seem like she profited quite a bit from being Garry Marshall's sister.

Ya don’t say - -

Another fuckin’ nepo baby.

Have Kate and Oliver commented?

Williams was always so funny on "Laverne and Shirley" when at the end of an episode her character would pretentiously announce to Laverne they had just learned an important life lesson. That always made me smile.

r238 they've never had any kind of relationship with their father, never mind Cindy.

R223 maybe that says more about tv shows now than the people who watch them.

The fact that r223 still watches SVU says quite a bit, r241.

SVU is great when you're bored. Most 70s tv is unwatchable today.

[quote]maybe that says more about tv shows now than the people who watch them.

70s tv was mostly dreck. Modern tv has so many quality shows. Tv is better than most movies now.

In the 1970s, there were three networks. To remain competitive, it was all about churning out whatever you could churn out to attract an audience and getting advertising revenue on limited budgets.

With all the streaming services today, there's more money to be spent on quality - these streaming services like Network and Prime can pay for better writers and directors and meet the salary requirements of established actors.

The city of Van Nuys, where Williams grew up outside of LA, has officially declared Janaury 25 as 'Cindy Williams Day' - the day she died. The city wants to honor Cindy each year for being an inspiration to young girls everywhere that you can achieve your dreams. No word on whether the city wil observe this as an official holiday, with city offices and schools closed. Who knows - maybe even WalMart will close for the day each year on Janaury 25 ?

I started watching the first episode on Decades but I think I'll wait until the episodes where Shirley is the Shirley we know and love.

Mack Phillips posted a tribute on her IG that said she had just seen Cindy in Cincinnati two weeks ago (which actually means a week before she died). I don’t know what kind of “illness” no matter how brief (I don’t mean a heart attack or stroke,) one could be running around to a convention a week before death. That’s a little weird.

No I’m not some conspiracy nut I just can’t imagine what it could be - unless it really was Covid.

Like the above poster said it's kind of ironic that Cindy Williams, who was healthy all her life, and Penny Marshall who smoked like a chimney and did drugs both died at the exact same age. 75 is relatively young these days.

Life is such a fucking crapshoot.

She, Henry Winkler, Tom Wopat, and Catherine Bach were in Cincinnati for a vintage car show.

Wow. That was only a few weeks ago.

Preach, R223!

Maybe Cindy had a better quality of life than Penny, despite them dying at the same age.

Anjelica Huston said that Penny used to hunker down in her basement, AC cranked to sub-Arctic temperatures, doing coke and ordering Beanie Babies from QVC.

Both Penny and Cindy put on weight, but Cindy appeared to be in better shape and slimmer.

Apparently Penny was still doing coke into her 60s. That's just insane.

Cindy might have overdone the lipstick and hair dye, but she never proceeded to the tinted granny glasses and Afghan hound wigs.

R251 less than two weeks before she died. Interesting.

In retrospect, Penny and Whoopi Goldberg aged the same way.

Glasses way down on the nose. Gained a significant amount of weight. Caftan-esque clothing. Both seem(ed) like lesbians. Curmudgeonly, although Whoopi is way worse. Penny had a daughter when she was 19 or so. Whoopi had a daughter, as well.

[quote]The city of Van Nuys

Van Nuys is not a city--it's a neighborhood in the City of Los Angeles.

Whoopi had her daughter at a young age, too. I believe she was 16 or 17. She's became a great grandmother at the age of 65.

AS far as Penny being a lesbian, in Joan Collins memoir from last year, she called PM 'an out and proud lesbian' as far back as the early 90s. (She hated PM and couldn't understand how she could be so revered in Hollywood back then).

Joan Collins is hilarious. I wonder why she hated Penny.

They do have their own town hall and airport, r258, so it's a large neighborhood.

Joan hated anyone who could do what she couldn't: act.

This episode just ended...

What evidence does anyone have that Cindy Williams lived such a healthy life? Because she played Shirley who was a goody-two shoes? Obviously, she wasn't as excessive as Penny, but that still leaves a lot of room for excess...

[quote] It's true

Actually, It's the blathering of a psychotic fangurl with an obsession with "Star War's and Carrie Fisher.

Get fucked r265. You need help.

R264 pretty sure people meant in comparison to Penny - and it’s really the smoking that was so egregious. I’m sure she did all the recreational stuff that any celebrity of that era would have done, but there’s no evidence it went beyond that, and I highly doubt it did.

Maybe Cindy partied a little bit in the 70s but it never went beyond that. Penny was into drugs for a very long time.

Boy I did not know that about Penny Marshall.

Neither wanted to do the album but were told that there *would* be one whether it was their voices or not.

AMATEURS!

I'm watching the Fabian episode. Lucy and Ethel, eat your heart out.

Has Cindy’s cause of death been revealed?

R266 = psychotic Star Wars fan in love with Carrie Fisher's rotting corpse

Yes, r273, but we aren't going to tell you.

Are COVID deaths the new AIDS deaths? We just call them "short illnesses" in the obituaries?

No, r276, they aren't, but bless your heart.

r274 - eldergay who is enamored of the incredible talent of Cindy Williams and will not tolerate any criticism of one of his most beloved 70s tv shows. Don't even THINK of making fun of the 70s tv shows he holds near and dear to his heart to this very day.

Odd friendship alert.

hula hula

For anyone on the west coast, Decades channel is doing a L&S marathon right now. Highlights coming up in the next few hours:

8:00pm - Playing The Roxy (Shirley thinks she's a stripper)

9:30pm - Supermarket Sweep (the girls win a shopping spree in a supermarket)

10:30pm - Not Quite South of the Border (aka Raoul's By The Bay mentioned previously in the thread; the girls go on a budget vacaction)

12:00am - Murder on the Moosejaw Express Part 1 (mystery, murder and cross-dressing on a Canadian train)

12:30am - Murder on the Moosejaw Express Part 2

1:00am - The Diner (Betty, please!)

r282...

Do Kate and Oliver Hudson have any relationship with her two kids with Bill Hudson? Kate and Oliver don't even acknowledge him as their father, they call Kurt Russell Dad.

Kathy Ireland’s shoutout to Ed Begley Jr…were he and Cinds a woosome twosome?

NM, I just saw R281.

R281 I remember seeing a recent interview with Ed Begley, Jr. He said he asked her out on a date back in the early 70s. He's always been a hardcore environmentalist, and he said he had bought an experimental electric VW Beetle. On the way home from their date, the Beetle lost power, and she had to help him push it home.

He said she turned him down for a second date after that. :-)

R287, Cindy walked away from Ed’s reportedly big dick?

I've heard she could difficult too. She must've not been a mega bitch though because she had an alright career. I remember listing to a podcast youtube of a guy who has interviewed countless actors (mostly b list and lower) and he always wanted to interview Cindy and interviewed several of her actor friends they all told him "you don't want to interview her."

Sounds...vague, r289.

It was just a matter of time. Has her substitute, Sherri Shepherd, commented yet?

In rewatching Laverne & Shirley, a few things strike me:

There are many episodes where Laverne & Shirley are separated, meaning Laverne does her gags and then Shirley does her gags separately. There were rumors that the two always fought.

Lenny & Squiggy played a larger role in the show than I remembered. There are a few episodes where it's just them with minimal screentime for L&S.

The 1970s featured very heavily in the show (even though it was set in the 1950s and 1960s). In the California episodes, there is a Bicentennial tablecloth on their table in a few episodes. Several of the scenarios and a few of the costumes are heavily 1970s. For example, Supermarket Shopping Spree gameshows were very popular in the 1970s (as inflation was kicking the ass of the nation).

Penny Marshall's daughter makes an appearance in Season 7 (the one where they go to the frat house with two college guys). She's the student that likes the fat guy.

A lot of their physical comedy is stolen directly from Lucille Ball.

Was the word "cocktease" invented in the 1950s and 60s? Shirley strings Carmine along, while dating other men and Laverne does the same thing to Sonny when they hit California. And speaking of Sonny...

The show was very subversive. In Season 5, Episode 24, Ed Marinaro plays Laverne's cousin from Italy. They stand Marinaro center stage and put him in the tightest pants they could fine, very clearly showing his VPL through most of the episode, very daring for prime time. (Marinaro is resurrected in California as the guy who lives upstairs, but like Edna Babish, disappears without any mention in the following season).

[quote]A lot of their physical comedy is stolen directly from Lucille Ball.

So many shows stole directly from Lucille Ball. It happens to this day.

One example that immediately comes to mind is the Will and Grace reboot where Grace and Karen get stuck in a shower stall that's filling up with water. Lucy and Viv did the exact same thing on The Lucy Show.

[quote]A lot of their physical comedy is stolen directly from Lucille Ball.

I prefer the term *borrowed*, r293. Also, Supermarket Sweep began in 1965.

r293 - They were very open about that being an homage when it aired.

[quote] So many shows stole directly from Lucille Ball. It happens to this day.

There are at least two episodes where L&S are out on a balcony doing sight gags. (Stolen from Lucy's Superman episode).

The episode where they are in the vat of beer (Stolen from Lucy's grape stomping episode)

Laverne's "drunk on chocolates" heavily borrows from Lucy's Vitavetavegamin (being drunk while working)

Laverne singing off key while Shirley can sing quite well echoes Lucy & Ethel (although Shirley doesn't sing as well as Ethel).

I think Penny Marshall did more ripping off of Lucille Ball than Cindy Williams did. But I have to admit that they were both very agile in the stunts they did.

There was an episode where Lenny got depressed. The "L" from the "Lone Wolf" on his jacket fell off and got lost in the laundry. He professes his love to Laverne. She give him one of her fancy script Ls to replace his Lone Wolf L.

R293 You're not very bright

[quote] A lot of their physical comedy is stolen directly from Lucille Ball

I remember watching one of those behind the sitcoms E! Type things where someone working on the show said “the problem was they both thought they were Lucy.”

[quote]“the problem was they both thought they were Lucy.”

Why wouldn't they, r298? The show was called Laverne *and* Shirley. Penny got first billing and Cindy got top billing.

I agree r299 - but that’s where the conflict and the counting of lines and gags etc came from . Like their agents used to come in with a stopwatch - supposedly - to make sure each was getting equal time.

Unfortunate, r300, but not unforeseeable based on the dynamic.

Penny Marshall had talent, but with her looks she would never have made it in the industry without the help of her adoring brother. Luckily she got into directing finally where her talents could pay off, and where she could be as stoned and slovenly and fat as she had always wanted to be.

Same trajectory as Rob Reiner.

r297 it's still a ripoff no matter how you say it

R304 Bless your heart.

r305 is a superfan of Will and Grace, don't talk about no ripping off Lucy!

"Let's do an 'homage.' We'll just copy everything shot for shot and call it that and it will take up half the episode."

And they said so in advance of airing, r307. It's not like they didn't give credit where credit was due.

Did Cindy have any relationship at all with Goldie Hawn?

Not only did Debbie Reynolds eventually reconcile with Elizabeth Taylor, she was also friendly with Connie Stevens.

Most women don't have a relationship with their husband's ex wife.

R296

My fav ep. I love the 'One Wolf' joke. Hilarious.

Ok. Say Cindy gets up to Heaven. The Pearly's open. She sees Penny.

Penny: 'I get top billing, here, (Hands on hips) I get top billing this time 'cause I got history here, people know me. Friends. They LUV me'.

Cindy" 'Well excuussee me but right now I'm all the rage in the headlines down there...no EARTH! I mean 'EARTH, not 'there! Oh for goodness sakes, don't even THINK that.

Penny: Well, you vo-dee-o-dodo'd.

Cindy: I DON'T vo-dee-o-dodo

Penny: You DID vo-dee-o-dodo

Cindy: I DIDN'T vo-dee-o-dodo

PENNY: You vo-dee-o'd

Cindy: ONCE.

...and that's when the Gates, those Pearly gates opened wide and they were kicked out.

And they landed in the re-runs.

stuck

R310 has never seen "Reba."

[quote] A lot of their physical comedy is stolen directly from Lucille Ball.

How do you figure that? Lucille Ball didn't write the scripts for "I Love Lucy."

r314 is retarded

R310, R309 gave two examples. Often, they have to if children are involved.

Nancy Reagan said she was once intimidated by Jane Wyman, but over time they developed a relationship.

Gisele and Bridget also developed a relationship over time.

It happens.

So tonight MeTV had "Betty Pickup" while Logo had the Mama's Family film noir at the same time. Two of my favorite episodes. Such a dilemma!

Ain’t you got a DVR?

r318 Of course, and I have every streaming service known to man, but sometimes when I'm in the kitchen I don't want to deal with remotes and buttons.

Glad I didn't know, r317, so it was only "Betty Pickup" for me.

Well I lied, didn’t I! I love how she delivers that line.

R315 is a retard who thinks Lucille Ball invented all the gags on her show. What a retard!

Lucille Ball invented a lot, actually. And people have been stealing from her ever since.

Lucille Ball didn’t invent anything, her writers did.

And she would often admit that.

[quote][R315] is a retard who thinks Lucille Ball invented all the gags on her show. What a retard!

Please, don't say retard, we prefer the term little people.

Fabian turns 80 today.

As of today, Cindy has been dead for one week.

I just can't believe how all of the celebrities that I grew up with as a kid are now dead. They were at the top of the world back then, and now they're gone.

After watching the L & S dvd set, I saw just how much the Golden Girls stole from Cindy & Penny.

I’m tired of seeing this thread. She isn’t a big enough star to warrant this response.

How very DARE you!

r329 you have to remember our eldergays spent the entire 1970s in front of their tv screens, watching absolutely fucking everything. The shit television shows from that decade are still beloved, and discussed and analyzed constantly to this very day. Of course Cindy Williams' death would be a big deal on DL.

The video at R328 proves that when $ is involved, Penny can talk clearly & often.

The rest of the time she is just a lazy inconsiderate speaker who doesn't give a damn.

[quote]Do Kate and Oliver Hudson have any relationship with her two kids with Bill Hudson? Kate and Oliver don't even acknowledge him as their father, they call Kurt Russell Dad.

I have wondered what they thought/think of Cindy.

She and Bill Hudson were married 1982-2000.

Oliver was born in 1976 and Kate in 1979, so they grew up with her as their stepmother,

And it's not like Bill wed a nobody. Cindy wasn't obscure in the '80s or even '90s.

Also, Bill divorced Hawn the same year he married Cindy.

Since Oliver and Kate have always despised their dad, I wonder if that spilled over onto Cindy.

Was she the (distant) evil stepmother to them? The other woman?

I don't believe Kate and Oliver Hudson have ever had any relationship at all with Bill Hudson.

It seems to have been forgotten that Cindy was in “The Conversation”, an excellent film.

Laverney and Shirley was the number one tv show in the late 1970s when that meant major numbers in terms of people watching. She and Marshall were two of the most famous women in the world from the late 1970s to mid-1980s, so it completely makes sense that there would be a long thread on her death.

[quote]She and Marshall were two of the most famous women in the world from the late 1970s to mid-1980s

In the US, not the world.

Americans think anyone who is famous in America is world famous. Many American celebrities are not internationally famous.

R328 I don’t see that at all - but the Debra messing & Val cat fights were very L&S.

[quote] The video at [R328] proves that when $ is involved, Penny can talk clearly & often.

Cocaine and Beanie Babies don't pay for themselves.

[quote]Americans think anyone who is famous in America is world famous.

It usually works out that way.

r340 there are big stars in America who aren't well known in other countries. Oprah isn't a huge star outside the US.

[quote] I’m tired of seeing this thread. She isn’t a big enough star to warrant this response.

Then don't read it, retarded troll.

[quote] I have wondered what they thought/think of Cindy.

They probably never met her. Or their half brother and half sister. It seems to me that Bill Hudson was completely cut out of the lives of his children with Goldie Hawn. Cindy and her children were probably kept entirely separate from Oliver and Kate. What a nasty situation.

Oliver and Bill Hudson have a relationship now.

R343 if you look hard enough there are pics of both sets of children together. But yes I’m sure they weren’t close

[Quote] It seems to have been forgotten that Cindy was in “The Conversation”, an excellent film.

'Cindy Williams so good in American Graffiti is woefully unconvincing as a femme fatale'-John Simon June 1974

[quote]As of today, Cindy has been dead for one week. I just can't believe how all of the celebrities that I grew up with as a kid are now dead. They were at the top of the world back then, and now they're gone.

NO - she died on Wednesday, January 25. It was announced five days later, on Monday, January 30.

R346, John Simon once compared Liza Minnelli’s face to that of a beagle.

Since Goldie Hawn, Oliver Hudson and Kate Hudson have made no comment on the passing of Cindy Williams I think it's safe to assume they had no relationship with her at all.

I wouldn't expect them to, r349.

Did you know that Laverne & Shirley was the most-watched American television program by its third season? That was back when pretty much every household was watching primetime TV.

[quote] I wouldn't expect them to

Well, some posters have wondered if Goldie Hawn was friends with Cindy and whether or not Oliver and Kate had any relatinship with their half siblings. You would think Oliver and Kate would have something to say aout the mother of their half siblings. But as it's been said it looks like they had very little to do with them, which is sad.

Oliver admitted to Andy Cohen on WWHL that he and Bill Hudson do communicate.

[quote]You would think Oliver and Kate would have something to say aout the mother of their half siblings

No, r352, *I* wouldn't...

[quote]Oprah isn't a huge star outside the US.

Oprah is HUGE everywhere, if you know what I mean.

[quote] John Simon once compared Liza Minnelli’s face to that of a beagle.

That's insulting!

[quote]Most women don't have a relationship with their husband's ex wife.

Some do especially when kids are involved. Carrie Fisher was close to her half sisters Jolie and Tricia.

Family Reunited: Cindy Williams' Death Brings Kate & Oliver Hudson Along With Feuding Foes Back Together

Gotta love these articles that pass as “news.”

All 100% speculation vis a vis the clobbering together of old quotes.

Everyone’s ragging on them for not releasing a statement (when they clearly had no relationship) but what about Bill Hudson himself? Who is never not wanting attention. He sounds like a real piece of shit.

Yes that is common knowledge r351

[Quote]'Cindy Williams so good in American Graffiti is woefully unconvincing as a femme fatale'-John Simon June 1974

She's great in the film and has one of the saddest lines in film history.

"I always think that he was once somebody's baby boy. Really, I do. I think he was once somebody's baby boy, and he had a mother and a father who loved him, and now there he is, half dead on a park bench, and where are his mother or his father, all his uncles now?"

[quote]R329 I’m tired of seeing this thread. She isn’t a big enough star to warrant this response.

I’m sick of the Julian Sands one.

At least Cindy Williams isn’t draining the public coffers for search teams to dredge the snow for his D List ass.

Julian's ass was faaaaaaar from D-List. It's more a B+.

One of my favorite scenes in L&S is the episode with Jay Leno. The gang is playing baseball and Shirley is the cheerleader for the team. Cindy is fucking hysterical as she pom poms her way around the players and at one point gets nailed behind home plate as she is cheering the hit that was just made. She is stunned by being bowled over by the runner sliding into home plate and she gets up off the ground and staggers away....still lopsidedly cheering. I tried to find the scene on youtube, but no luck. Maybe someone else can find it.

That’s the first time the words “Jay Leno” and “favourite” have ever been in the same sentence.

[quote] That’s the first time the words “Jay Leno” and “favourite” have ever been in the same sentence.

So so true. I also think L&S was really a working class version of the Odd Couple (of course another Marshall show) more than anything else. And agreed Cindy was never given enough credit for her comedic skills (which were up there).

Ron Howard said that Cindy was a drunk and she probably drank herself to death

Was Cindy in the Oscars In memoriam?

No.

[quote] Ron Howard said that Cindy was a drunk and she probably drank herself to death

Sheesh. Is that a joke or did he really say that? Sweet little Opie??

R370 Ron Howard never said that.

[Quote] Ron Howard said that Cindy was a drunk and she probably drank herself to death

R367 are you confusing Cindy with Erin Moran?

[quote] Ron Howard said that Cindy was a drunk and she probably drank herself to death

No, he didn't. What a stupid lie.

Eon Howard said this about his co-star Erin Moran after her death: "Such sad sad news. RIP Erin. I'll always choose to remember you on our show making scenes better, getting laughs and lighting up TV screens."

^ 'and getting drunk in your trailer'