Third Clancy child dies of his injuries at Boston hospital

Where was that skinny daddy when this was going south?

[quote]Historically, cases of women who have killed their children have often involved postpartum depression or psychosis, the latter being a condition that can severely alter a person’s mental state after giving birth. If left untreated, it can pose serious dangers to both the mother and her child.

Or, they've been narcissists who used PPD as their twinkie defense to save themselves after murdering their children.

R2, really? This woman was kind of dramatic in killing her kids. You think she’s thinking she’ll get out of it because she ate twinkies?

Almost certain there was some element of postpartum depression going on here, if she had a child under 1 year old and two other kids.

Tell me your a young’uns without telling me your a young’un R3

I can't believe there isn't already a thread about this.

You’re not your

This is so sad. The kids are adorable.

Andrea Yates 2.0

[quote] The kids are adorable.

Not anymore.

R4 Do you think it started with baby #3? I’m not too familiar with PPD but I’m assuming it started with baby #3 if she had 2 young ones before.

Love how folks are softpedaling this outrageous murder. Bitch killed her children.

With Andrea Yates it got progressively worse with each birth and her son of a bitch husband kept getting her knocked up one after the other so she never could normalize. She was catatonic at one point and the doctors kept telling him "no more kids" but Rusty had to be fruitful as the lord commanded.

I see R3 is more of a Ding Dong fan.

If she had been serious about committing suicide, she'd at least have jumped from the roof after strangling her poor kids, not flopped out of a second-story window!

Lazy bitch.

I'll wait and see what comes out, R12. For Yates, it turned out that she had repeatedly told her husband the voices in her head were telling her to kill the children and she begged him to get her help. She was seen by a doctor who told Rusty she should be hospitalized, she also begged to stay, and he yanked her ass back home cause he wasn't going to watch those kids. Rusty Yates should be rotting under a prison right now.

Fuck! What an awful situation.

R12 Who is?

R8 *were

That husband has a big dick, too

Where R20?

R21 Crotch area

eye roll R22.

R23 likewise

I knew a family that was excitedly waiting for the first grandchild. Mom was a thrilled expectant mother but about 3 days after the birth everyone noticed she withdrew and exhibited zero interest in her baby and refused to touch it or feed it. She was diagnosed with postpartum depression and treated but it took months before she got back to normal and her family was freaked out.

r25 it's great that the mom got treatment and there was a good outcome. This is a real condition, just like depression is a chemical/neurological thing that sometimes really needs to be treated with medication. Anybody who denies this is a trogodolyte/cave.

^caveperson

R26 also *troglodyte

I am from Duxbury and I cannot tell you how shocking this story is

My parents still live there and my mom got this info from friends who knew the family:

She had been committed to McClean Mental Hospital and spent time there and was released to a 5 day outpatient program. She was not allowed to be alone so her husband changed to completely remote. Her parents moved in to their home and had to leave for some reason. She asked her husband to get takeout for dinner and that’s when she killed the children. . . worst decision of his life.

This lady was diagnosed with severe PPD and was intensive outpatient treatment five days a week. She should have been hospitalized.

My friend’s wife had post partum depression after she gave birth to twins. It progressed to post partum psychosis and she was hospitalized for a few months. Her husband insisted that she was admitted. He never shared the details but I suspect she threatened or tried to harm the babies.

R29 " I cannot tell you how shocking this story is "

But you did

Those details make this story even worse, r29

What a horrific tragedy.

[quote] worst decision of his life

How do you know, R29??

It’s very scary hearing the call of the void. This lady decided to answer, unfortunately.

Animals also get the syndrome. In some cases they cannibalize their young. It is a very real thing. I think Brooke shields also had it. There are people that wait a long time to have children, want the child very much, and get hit with his syndrome.

If you read the Cases and the situation surrounding it, it’s usually not a child that is a surprise or unwanted in someway. It’s a child that is being welcomed into the family. However, the Andrea Yates situation is very very significant.

She had shown the propensity for the syndrome, and I think that her depression might’ve been driven also by PTSD, due to being abused and isolated. But the instinct to protect and care for the young is hormonal and neurotransmitter-based and when that goes wrong, it can get extremely scary for everyone involved.

Unbeknownst to me at the time, I had post partum depression and I really believe it brushed right up against post partum psychosis for a bit. I look back and man, it leaves me cold knowing it could have turned out really badly. It makes me wonder how many other women had it and didn't know. It was really confusing and scary but I didn't talk to anyone about it because I was a teen and have a family history of violence and social services and everyone was expecting worst from me anyway.

Original thread

It was until censorship invaded the damn site.

R38 I wonder what happened on that thread that got it deleted?

"This lady was diagnosed with severe PPD and was intensive outpatient treatment five days a week. She should have been hospitalized."

Probably due to the desperate shortage of mental hospital beds in the USA. It's so bad that anyone who is together enough to fill a prescription and who isn't actively threatening to do harm is pushed out onto the street, particularly if they are like this woman and have family who can provide care while the medications slowly take effect.

So the best thing the family can do, when they're able to pull out of the grief enough to function, is sue the hospital for discharging this poor woman too early, and then start campaigning for more mental hospital availability. There's a supercritical shortage of space in American mental hospitals, because neither the government or the for-profit medical system wants to fund more, so only a tiny fraction of the people who need serious mental health treatment get any time in a hospital at all. And if they get any time there, they're chucked out far too soon, usually onto the streets, so that some other poor soul can have a few days of inpatient treatment.

Oh, well. Maybe they can patch things up and try for more.

PPD?

Why didn’t *I* think of that?

r40, this family was from Duxbury, one of the wealthiest towns in Massachusetts. They were upper middle class, they could afford the best mental health care and a longer stay in McLean. These children should never have been left alone with the mother for even a minute, while she was in the state she was in. They probably should have been moved out their home entirely, for their safety and for the duration of their mother's recovery. The grandparents were said to have moved in to help - they should have taken the children OUT of the home for the weeks or months it took to get the mother stable.

Also, this couple had three children under the age of five. They were well off, but that is still unusual among people their age. Most young couples in that social strata, living outside of Boston, tend to have small families (two or less kids) or if they have three or more, have them spaced well apart. Or helped by nannies or au pairs.

I see that they were Catholic - the church still leans on young people to have families, having children is the foundation of a lot of what they are about. I'm not blaming the Church, but I wonder if there was some pressure there.

[quote]R13 With Andrea Yates it got progressively worse with each birth and her son of a bitch husband kept getting her knocked up one after the other so she never could normalize.

The Christian zealot dad also had the family living in a converted school bus at one point, with the wife having to homeschool all the kids (who were all in different grades, which made it even harder.)

I’d snap, too!

I worked with a few people who knew the Yates peripherally. Andrea was quiet and cowed by her overbearing husband. One guy worked with him and he was known as an asshole at work and not a "team player" meaning when Nasa projects came up requiring input from team members he was not cooperative in sharing his work. Kept to himself and didn't associate with coworkers even at work. He should have gotten some jail time IMO.

R2, PPD/PPD psychosis, is a REAL thing.

It doesn’t provide an excuse in any possible way, as to why mothers, murder their own children.

However, it provides data, & an explanation.

She needs to either spend life in prison or get the chair.

No comments on the children's names, especially "Dawson"? You surprise me, DL.

USA is not going to sort out its health care crisis. So its not going to invest in necessary mental health care, including residential treatment and all the other extremely costly health care necessary for outliers - insane people, from children to old people. Please remember that all the resources of a very rich country must move UP to the very rich. That system is working better than ever. The economy grows and grows and the very rich suck ever more life and wealth out of the peons.

R47 Your, use, of, commas makes me, think, you are, William, Shatner.

Provide some dick pics, R51.

If I like what I see, I’ll consider beaming you up.

What a sad story.

Also agree that Rusty Yates should be in prison.

Patrick Clancy, the Duxbury father whose three children were allegedly killed by his wife at their home, on Saturday wrote about his achingly painful loss and the deep love and forgiveness he feels for his wife, Lindsay.

“A lot of people have said they can’t imagine and they’re right, there’s absolutely nothing that can prepare you,” Clancy said in his first public remarks, which were posted on a GoFundMe fund-raising page set up for his family. “The shock and pain is excruciating and relentless. I’m constantly reminded of them and with the little sleep I get, I dream about them on repeat.”

The Clancy children, Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and Callan, 8 months, were allegedly strangled by their mother on Tuesday night at their home. Patrick Clancy called 911 after arriving home shortly after 6 p.m., when he found his children unconscious and that his wife had attempted suicide.

Lindsay Clancy, 32, is in a Boston hospital and is facing murder and assault charges.

Patrick Clancy wrote with loving compassion for Lindsay, and says he forgives her, and asked for others to do the same.

“I want to ask all of you that you find it deep within yourselves to forgive Lindsay, as I have. The real Lindsay was generously loving and caring towards everyone — me, our kids, family, friends, and her patients. The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I wish for her now is that she can somehow find peace,” he wrote.

A labor and delivery nurse at Massachusetts General Hospital, Lindsay Clancy had written of her long struggle with postpartum depression on her Facebook page over the summer, just six weeks after the birth of Callan.

“Our marriage was wonderful and diametrically grew stronger as her condition rapidly worsened,” Patrick Clancy wrote. “I took as much pride in being her husband as I did in being a father and felt persistently lucky to have her in my life.

“I still remember the very moment I first laid eyes on her and can recall how overcome I was with the kind of love at first sight you only see in movies. It really didn’t take long before I was certain I wanted to marry her.”

The couple married in 2016 in Southington, Conn., according to an engagement announcement published in the Scituate Mariner newspaper.

Patrick Clancy described Cora, the couple’s first-born, as a caring older sister to Dawson and Callan.

“She used to say she wanted to be a doctor and a mama when she grew up and she would practice by giving Callan check ups,” Clancy wrote.

He said Cora loved her baby dolls and would practice wrapping them in swaddles.

“We would tell her she’s such a ‘good little mama,’” he wrote. “She loved all babies, both real and pretend.”

Clancy said his oldest son, Dawson, was “naturally humorous and generous beyond the norm of a typical toddler, always willing to share his toys with others.”

“His best quality was his pure kindness,” he wrote.

“He would hug me tighter than most adults and every night he told me in consistent words at bedtime, without fail, ‘goodnight dada, I love you.’ ... He was my buddy, my first boy, and truly a gift.”

Callan was born on May 26, 2022, and his death Friday at Boston Children’s Hospital came one day after he turned 8 months old, according to a spokeswoman for the Plymouth district attorney’s office.

Clancy wrote that Callan was “our easy going child,” always smiling. His parents called him “Happy Callan.”

“If I was ever having a bad day, Callan always knew how to heal me,” he wrote. “Perhaps that’s why he held on a little longer — to spare me whatever pain he could. As excruciating as it was, I was fortunate and grateful to feel his warmth until his very last moment. Faith is my only hope of believing he felt mine.”

He also thanked the Duxbury community, police, firefighters, clergy, and others who have supported his family during an impossibly difficult time. Hundreds attended a candlelight vigil for the family Thursday evening at Holy Family Catholic Church.

“I promise I’ll put all my energy into healing and rediscovering my purpose. I owe that to all of you, Duxbury fire and police, our compassionate health care workers, our local faith leaders, the Microsoft community” — an apparent reference to his work — “and especially Cora, Dawson, and Callan. I don’t know how or when I’ll be able to do it, but your love and generosity will help me get started. I know that love always wins,” Clancy wrote.

Reminds me of Sheila Epker who killed her four kids before taking her own life in 1989.

He’s a bigger person forgiving her already. She’s only 32, so they have time for a do over. In less than ten years, if she gets treated properly, they can have another set of kids and try again.

I'm as compassionate as they come, but I think it's in everyone's best interest that she not have ANY more kids, r57.

Pretty sure she'll be committed like Andrea Yates and a divorce will proceed R57.

That's what I'm thinking as well, r59. This man will eventually possibly have more children, but not with his current wife.

Hopefully she dove head first and will soon leave this planet, the selfish bitch. Those poor beautiful babies!

I love how people have zero sympathy for women with postpartum psychosis. You realize they don't know what they are doing or in Andrea's case she thought she was saving their souls?

Misogyny rears its ugly head.

r62 You're right. If you read the article in r56, that woman had a child under a year old. And yet nobody in the article even mentions postpartum depression. Granted, it was 1989.

In 1989, PPD wasn't really an often recognized illness.

The closest people ever got to recognizing some sort of mental illness surrounding postpartum depression was to call it some form of "baby blues."

Can you imagine feeling like you're in the depths of despair, at the end of your rope and maybe even suicidal or worse and being told by your obstetrician "oh, sounds like you have a case of baby blues...go on home, dear, put your feet up and maybe take a bubble bath...you'll be feeling back to yourself soon. And look at your beautiful baby? How can you be upset about that?"

Those poor fathers who are left to pick up the pieces after these tragedies, especially as in the link at r56, walked in and found his wife and kids dead.

Yes, I had my son in 1991 and even now I am not entirely certain if specific things actually happened or if it was in my head. I had never heard of PPD and I knew that I was the worst mother who ever lived, that I didn't deserve such a perfect baby and that terrible things were absolutely going to happen to him to punish me for even considering being his mother. That if I were truly a good, loving mother I would just kill myself so he could have a great life without me.

I got psychoticly over protective of him and our image to people. I watched him sleep because I just knew he would die in his sleep if I didn't watch every minute and that people would say that I killed him. He actually had sleep apnea so that's likely what started that obsession. I just didn't sleep for days for more than a few minutes at a time.

shit like that. I didn't realize what it actually likely was until geez, 10 years ago or so? It got pretty dark without me realizing it and then turned into just desperate depression for a few years. I resent the fact that I never actually got a chance to enjoy my son's childhood.

Also (in an attempt to maybe explain her state of mind) I worried. I didn't know if people who abused children actually knew they were abusive or if they did stuff and didn't realize they had done it. So I had this constant 'did I abuse him? I don't think so but, would I know? What if you black out and abuse him? what if you sleepwalk and abuse him? what if you snap and abuse him and don't remember it? what if I already did?' It just ate at my brain constantly.

My mother had PPD when I was born. Not as bad as these women obviously but she said she had ongoing feelings of despair over bringing, in her words, "an innocent little baby into this horrible, ugly world just to die at the end".

[quote] Greg Epker knows how his wife killed their four children and herself, but he doesn’t know why - and authorities say he likely never will.

Oh, sure.

Was he that shitty a husband that he had absolutely NO clue who his wife of nearly a decade was or what she was going through??

I have a strange and intense hatred of Rusty Yates. He is a type. And I hate his type.

Did he ever remarry?

I think so, r71, and had more children

r69 From what I remember about that case, Sheila Epker hid her crazy from everybody. Nobody, not even the husband, had a clue about what she was planning.

r71

I can’t even begin to imagine what her issues are.

rescue chick at r67 - thank you for sharing your experience. May I ask, how long after birth was it before your PPD started to clear, and you began to recover back to 'normal' (or what you felt was that state). Because it's supposed to clear at some point, the hormonal and chemical imbalance eventually comes back into line, even if slowly.

Was this your only child or did you have others at the time? How old were they?

Little Miss Overachiever.

I only have one r76. I was never financially or relationshiply stable enough to have another one. I don't know if I would have found any circumstances that I would be comfortable having had another one because it would have been tragically unfair to my son.

I don't know when it ended in any way to call normal because my normal is high levels of actual clinical OCD. But, I am confident of everything after be was 2 years old of having actually really happened and been bound in full reality. Interestingly enough, basically after I stopped breastfeeding. I think it helped stabilize my hormones to a more sane level.

Interesting, rescue chick, especially the part about the breastfeeding. I wonder if Lindsay Clancy was breastfeeding, and if stopping might have helped her.

Thank you for sharing.

A defense attorney for Lindsay Clancy told The Boston Globe his client was overmedicated on prescription drugs that sparked homicidal and suicidal thoughts on the evening she allegedly strangled her three children and attempted to kill herself.

He told the newspaper that between last October and January, Clancy was prescribed 13 different psychiatric medications, including zolpidem (sold under the brand name Ambien); clonazepam (sold under the brand name Klonopin); diazepam (sold under the brand name Valium); fluoxetine (sold under the brand name Prozac); lamotrigine (sold under the brand name Lamictil); lorazepam (sold under the brand name Ativan); mirtazapine (sold under the brand name Remeron); quetiapine fumarate (sold under the brand name Seroquel); sertaline (sold under the brand name Zoloft); and trazodone, hydroxyzine, amitriptyline, and buspirone.

She needed to be in a looney bin but alas we don't have them.

I think this husband's letter is TOO SOON and anyway I shouldn't be reading it. Ew. He's a highly suspect person. Something in the dynamic between husband and wife was rotten.

Three kids in 5 years?

The articles hardly mention Patrick, other than his name. If you just lost three kids and your wife was on suicide watch, would you be waxing eloquent on GoFundMe? I'd be on Thorazine.

Were they religious nuts like the Yates clan?

R82, that’s because he’s a Christian, they’re literally obsessed with “glorifying God” in tragedy, they know they’ve got their 15 minutes when something like this happens so they get right to the heart of the matter. I agree, waaaaay too fucking soon to be declaring your forgiveness and to be telling other people to forgive. WTF are you, Jesus? The husband is a freak — but I feel enormous compassion for his loss, no one deserves this kind of pain. Even Christians.

Rescue-Chic, I really appreciate your very real story. We still romanticize motherhood and don’t prepare women for the reality that so many do not enjoy domestic life and do not “find themselves” through motherhood, if anything, it can ruin a woman. May I ask, do you have a relationship with your son now, and how is it (if you’re comfortable)?

I fucking hated being home with my kids, not because I don’t love them, but because it was 18 hour days without end, interrupted sleep nightly, and I already had other serious health issues. Also, I was in a terrible marriage that I didn’t have the backbone to leave until my second son. I was too young/immature/damaged to second guess what I was doing. I don’t regret my children at ALL, I adore them, but I only became a better mother when I started getting myself healed and making myself happy. It is a very very difficult choice we give women, if we offered universal childcare, there wouldn’t be tragedies like this case.

R68 Your mother wasn't mentally ill she was a realist.

"A defense attorney for Lindsay Clancy told The Boston Globe his client was overmedicated on prescription drugs "

Ah, that's going to be the legal strategy. Sue the deepest pockets, which is the pharmaceutical companies, the mental hospitals that let her out too early due to desperate overcrowding don't have enough of a budget to be worth taking!

If there was a private medical insurance companies that put a limit on the amount of inpatient care they'd paid for, I hope he sues them as well. A lot of Americans don't realize how many decisions about their medical care are made by their private insurance companies rather than their doctors, the medical insurances decide what kind of medications or surgeries they will cover, how many days of outpatient physical therapy or psychiatric care will be covered, and definitely how long a hospital stay is allowed to be. If this woman was told that she had to leave the mental hospital or her family would be bankrupted, even though she was still gaga... then her family needs to sue and to raise hell.

R67 Parenthood sends you into a frenzy of second-guessing and uncertainty. It just snowballs.

If you watch Forensic Files, the killer always 'just arrived home' or was conveniently otherwise away when the tragedy happened.

r84, I love my son but I don't maintain relationships well long term so as he's now an adult we have drifted.

I totally get it r90, I think that will happen with one of mine too. It seems to happen more with sons, thank you again for openly sharing.

Family is such a weird concept, sometimes you just have to acknowledge that r91!

Husband looks like a lesbian at OP. Surprised nobody has pointed that out, yet.

Rusty Yates looks like a scumbag at R75. Anyway, 2 years after Andrea's trial, he filed for divorce, saying it was the "hardest decision he's ever made." Yeah, sure. He now has a biological son plus 2 stepchildren.

Agreeing with R82--there's something off about the husband's response. Too quick to mention forgiveness and far too quick to talk about his marriage and his relationship to his wife as in the past. He's using the past tense about his marriage. He's totally giving up on this damaged woman. Forgiveness for him means locking her up and throwing away the key, likely followed by a divorce already in the works. Basically, it seems he is speaking of her as if she is already dead and he is moving on very quickly.

Also, the husband looks WAY TOO SKINNY and has a very young look in the family photo. What causes that? He doesn't look like the father of three. I thought he was an awkward teenage older brother of the kids, not the dad.

They aren't Christian they are uber-Catholic. A particular kind of Catholic that exists around Boston and the greater Boston area (those from there will know what I mean....). Not hyper conservative, but not liberal either. Solidly middle class and church-going, believing in the foundational teachings of that religion that children and family are the main and important foundation for marriage. Couples should have as many children as they can handle or afford - but not too any that they live in squalor or their lifestyle is heavily affected. Wives should have children early in the marriage and preferably back to back.

It was too much for her to handle, and her PPD after the last baby blew up into full on Post Partum Psychosis. It wasn't the meds that did it, it was the full blown, dangerous illness. Those kids should have been temporarily removed from her care for the duration of her recovery, even if it took months. She should have been under constant medical care, and her life as stress free as possible.

With a combination of treatment, proper meds, rest and time she would have improved, even if slowly. But what do you want to bet they didn't want to separate the children from her, despite her symptoms? I bet she was still breast feeding the baby.

[quote]r97 They aren't Christian they are uber-Catholic

Catholics aren’t Christian?

I wonder how much time she'll get -- in a mental hospital, I assume.

I kind of wonder how Andrea Yates is doing these days

I live about an hour north of Duxbury and it is a lovely town and I also have some clients based there.

This story got me. Those kids were beautiful. I'm almost 44 so a generation above these folks-

Its pretty clear that the woman was seriously ill and not evil. That makes it worse.

The husband is young and his response is very much of these times.. Instagrammy, Go Fund Me, ect..

The GoFundMe turned me off completely but when I thought about it and also researched more about Post Partum Psychosis- Its really tragic.

How does anyone live with a tragedy like this? How does she? Then I I go deeper- If this was an african american family, would they be treated differently? Or Iranian, ect?

Something about this story brings up a lot of shit-Its just fucked.

Check out this video, this chick seems around the parent's ages, and actually has some personal experience with post partum, had a friend who killed herself suffering from it.. Its very long and a little tedious but she has some solid insights.

He seems to want a quick reset with no serious consequences. I would say this is indicative of his generation but I think he may be an outlier and as dark as his wife. SICK.

R102- I see what you are saying- I'm getting that evil vibe yet..

For christ sake, she was a delivery nurse no less.. Its really dark,

Look at those kids- they were just adorable.

But yeah, the length and "final chapter of a book" vibe from his "statement" does give me pause- but how does one ever really react to something this dark. It has to feel like a nightmare that doesn't end.. I don't know..

^^ not (getting that evil vibe yet)

Jesus, such a horrible sad story. I really do feel for that father.

R87 The lawyer's setting up her defense in the court of public opinion before she has been indicted. She is scheduled to be charged from her hospital bed on Tuesday. Her lawyer's throwing in everything except the kitchen sink: "She can't move." He says she's not paralyzed and that she can move her arms and legs, but that "she can't move." Why? Because there are guards at the door?

R80 The story said she was on 13 meds since last October. Is that too many? Was she taking all 13 meds at once? Or was she trying one drug and then, if it didn't work in a week or two or however long it's supposed to take or had unwanted side-effects, the shrink prescribed another one?

The GoFundMe raised $400,000 in a couple of days. Unless he's a writer, the message from the father seemed almost too perfect for someone who'd lost their family a couple of days before that and was likely in shock. I'm guessing someone helped him put his thoughts into words.

So awfully sad, though, and about 10-12 miles away from where Ana Walshe - another 30-something mother of three - lived before she disappeared in early January. Her husband's in jail, but at least her kids will grow up.

[quote]Catholics aren’t Christian?

Well of course they are, I wasn't clear in what I was saying. I was explaining a particular kind of cultural Catholicism, one that is predominant in their geographic area, and the factors of it that may have influenced this situation.

Observant New England Catholics, particularly Boston-area ones, would not want to be lumped in with their southern Protestant/Christian counterparts, generally speaking. They are very different culturally, politically and the like.

Too many kids in too short a time. Women can't pop them out one after the other like a pez dispenser. Shit, even the ancient Hebrews knew this.

Nonsense r108!

I think her lawyer has a point to be honest. That list of prescriptions is crazy. Those are some heavy heavy hitters, several of those pills could make someone really turn for the worse on their own. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about Seroquel. I'm not saying she should be absolved in any way, but I can buy that there's some malpractice and serious irresponsibility here with how her medications were handled.

R102 or he snapped and he's thinking somehow everything will return to normal somehow. denial after extreme trauma can be powerful it can seem crazy.

What if she were to become pregnant again?

"He seems to want a quick reset with no serious consequences. "

He's a straight man. He's going to deal with the tragedy by finding a new wife and having a new clutch of kids.

He does not look like a straight man.

If he had used Door Dash, those three children would be alive today.

Nah, he was also getting another prescription for her on that 20 minute trip...

R116, CVS delivers.

Yay this generation quits everything.

R116, The grandparents had moved in to keep an eye on her and they foolishly were out of the house when the husband went to pick up dinner.

If she gets released to a hospital/institution, he’s going to knock her up.

This is really sad but the " you go gurl mistakes happen sweetie " support I'm seeing for this woman is bizarre. There's got to be a halfway point between old school ignorance and denial about mental illness and .... whatever this is. I can't recall ever seeing this level of enthusiastic cheerleading for equally crazy people who have hurt children. The reality is people like the aurora guy are clinically insane nutjobs too. And no one is rallying for him ( not that I'm suggesting they should).

R121, women are victims of patriarchal systems of inequality. They're subjugated and infantilized. They're babies themselves really. Would you give a baby a baby to take care of?

I didn't think so.

R120 will they call it their rainbow baby I wonder? They seem crazy enough to consider it.

I can't believe how eager some are to shove money at the Clancy's. Has anyone else made so much money from hanging their kids ? I can't recall it. You can have sympathy but this is just weird. Surely there are more deserving recipients of 1 million then a stepford mommy who went psycho. What's next for her, a hit reality show? Maybe title it No Kids and Counting: Lindsay's Journey.

Were the twelve(12) prescriptions issued by the same doctor?

Last year in Danbury, CT a mother of 3 killed them all and herself. Her husband, the kids’ father, came home to find his whole family dead and a suicide note. They were Spanish speaking immigrants and the story barely lasted a week in the local news cycle. I doubt it made national or international news.

R124 "Surely there are more deserving recipients of 1 million then a stepford mommy who went psycho."

Maybe. But defense attorneys don't come cheap.

Update . . .

Maybe one of the kids did it?

I didn't realize she's paralyzed from the waist down

R130, It’s not permanent paralysis.

Yikes, when Lindsay Clancy woke up and was intubated, the first thing she wrote on the white board they gave her was "do I need an attorney?"

I feel like Lindsay grew to hate her kids because of her own childhood trauma, she was probably molested as a child and never dealt with that.

I was molested.

So the latest is that she didn't have PPP at all? Is this true?

The doctor that prescribed all those meds is gonna come under fire. She could have been doctor shopping, and multiple drs prescribed all those meds.

And she was a maternity nurse? Yikes.

Who doctor shops for mood stabilizers and antipsychotics?

At the least I hope she’s fired from her job as a pediatric nurse, even if she receives therapy, just to be cautious. In my opinion she can’t be trusted around children. Eventually I think she’d be fine working with adult patients.

She's probably gonna go to prison, not similar at all to the Andrea Yates case

Shocking new information revealed during the arraignment:

--She very clearly planned her husband leaving the house to go to a further away restaurant (out of their normal go-to local takeout spots) to get food from ThreeV in Plymouth, MA; she texted with him about an hour earlier (while he was downstairs in his home office) to ask what he wanted off the menu -- she got a mediterranean power bowl, he got scallops & pork belly risotto

--She also had her husband stop at CVS, presumably to have more time for the killing

--The round trip maps detail is - Home >> CVS >> ThreeV Restaurant >> Home; 26 minutes driving time, plus a few minutes to stop at the two locations, probably 35-40 minutes total ​ --Friends, family, pediatrician everyone that interacted with her that day said she was completely normal that day and week leading up to that day. Additionally, she spent time that afternoon building a snowman in the backyard with the older two children and sent photos and texts of the snowman and kids to her mother and to her husband

--She also had two very normal phone conversations with a CVS manager (inquiring about whether children's miralax was in stock) and while placing a takeout order with ThreeV restaurant about an hour before the killings

--Her husband called during the killings (approx. 10 minutes after he left the home, while he was at CVS); she answered the call and spoke with him briefly. Her husband indicated that she sounded alright but seemed to be "in the middle of something"

--Patrick returned home to a silent home, called her phone looking for her and then went upstairs to find their bedroom door closed and locked. He managed to get it open and walked in to find blood on the floor in front of a full length mirror and the window open

--He rushed outside to be with her and asked what she had done, she said she "tried to commit suicide". He was on the phone with 911 when he asked her where the children were and she said in the basement. He waited until EMS arrived and could stay with her before rushing inside to look for the kids, not knowing they had been harmed. He walked down the stairs and said "guys??" before discovering them and screaming out in agony

--She strangled all 3 children with exercise bands and left them in the basement, face down. When police and EMS came to the basement, he exclaimed "she killed the kids!" -- all of this was still while he was on the phone with 911

--She kept a very detailed diary - "meticulous"; her diary entries indicate resentment towards the older 2

--Doctor indicated in December that she did not have postpartum depression or psychosis

--The first thing she asked when she awoke in the hospital was "do I need a lawyer"

--She called her husband for the first time last week and claimed to have heard "voices" and had 'a moment of psychosis' however that was the first time she claims to ever have heard voices or used the word psychosis (according to Patrick)

--She is paralyzed from the waist down and will remain at her current hospital until she is medically cleared to move to another facility; she will have two guards present at all times

--She has not cried or shown any emotion over the death of her kids

This one is the video to watch, it's the prosecution laying out their case at the arraignment:

Source r131?

Under her husband was leaving her for a man. She’s a Southie Madea!

R141, She’s fine and sends her love.

R139 MARY! Imagine that. I feel really bad for the guy even if he's a jesus thumping dope. I'd be in total denial too.

[quote]r107 New England Catholics would not want to be lumped in with their southern Protestant/Christian counterparts, generally speaking. They are very different culturally, politically and the like.

They have plenty in common, as they’re all deluded.

[quote]R139 Her husband called during the killings. He indicated that she sounded alright but seemed to be "in the middle of something"

Well, she was!

[quote]R139 her diary entries indicate resentment towards the older two

An understandable issue.

Initial reporting said the grandparents had moved into the house to keep an eye on Lindsay and help with the children.

If so, where were they that night?

The drunken freeloaders were probably at a church bingo hall.

What's the point of anyone setting up a GoFundMe page for an upper middle class man who lives in a wealthy suburb? His kids are gone and he most likely has health insurance and a great job. His heath insurance will also cover his mentally ill wife's medical expenses.

R121- It is absolutely bizarre. As is having a GoFundMe in the first place.

This story is very 2023.

R138 I'm hoping that's an attempt at humor but given the discourse around this case you might well be serious. No one ( adult or child) wants this woman hovering over them when they are helpless.

How quickly the tide of public opinion turns.

But I'm going to reserve judgment.

When the Andrea Yates story broke, I was in high school. A lot of people were clamoring for the death penalty, including the Harris County DA. A good friend and I got into a huge argument about the case. He thought Yates should fry; I argued she was deeply mentally ill. The argument didn't exactly end our friendship, but I never saw that friend in the same light.

The husband looks like Ellen.

R155 Ellen would have eaten the corpses

Who was the young man sitting alone and slumped next to the Zoom screen in the courtroom during her arraignment?

As the details of the killings were being read, he appeared to be crying.

It wasn’t her husband, possibly her brother?

No sane or qualified psychiatrist should have prescribed that boatload of meds at the same time. It may be that new meds were tried as other meds failed. I worked in mental healthcare and it was a constant battle with private insurance companies to not only keep a patient in the hospital more than a few days, but also to keep them in intensive outpatient programs once discharged from inpatient. I remember speaking with one insurance representative over the phone to request additional days for a patient in our outpatient partial hospital program (three hours a day, five days a week). Patient was still expressing passive suicidal ideation but the insurance rep said "just increase the medication dose" (wow why didn't we think of that?) I arranged an MD to MD consult with our psychiatrist and the insurance company's psychiatrist and, of course, the insurance company "won" as they usually do and patient was denied the additional days. We really do have a mental health crisis in this country, and I feel the insurance companies are at the heart of it.

"Side Effects" was in rotation on HBO recently...

I read one of those true crime books about Andrea Yates. The true story with all the full details was shocking. She was deeply mentally ill, this is not a person who should have been around kids at all. Multiple psychiatric hospitalizations and multiple doctors saying she was a massive danger to herself and others, without heavy meds. Apparently during her last hospitalization she responded really well to the meds and started to improve rapidly. Her asshole husband had her released from the hospital and knocked her up again immediately. She was off the meds and that’s where the story ends. Completely avoidable tragedy.

I am mystified by this case as this woman (seemingly) has no history of mental illness. It’s truly so tragic

Can you imagine what Patrick’s going through? You think you know someone who’s the love of your life, the mother of your children and apart from the last three months or so, he had no reason to doubt her - she was sick and it appears he did everything he was supposed to do about getting her psych treatment.

Like I said, you think you know someone…

Stone cold psycho bitch. How did so many shrinks misdiagnose her "postpartum depression"?

R158- Can I just say thank you, from someone who has been in an inpatient program? You are just one of many, many unsung heroes in the mental health field.

I'd care about this story more if it involved an attractive husband.

I don't think that's an unusual number of prescriptions for a psych patient. You try an SSRI, she can't tolerate it so you move to another one. Etc. She was obviously having mental problems and they were looking for the right combination of meds.

[quote]He told the newspaper that between last October and January, Clancy was prescribed 13 different psychiatric medications, including zolpidem (sold under the brand name Ambien); clonazepam (sold under the brand name Klonopin); diazepam (sold under the brand name Valium); fluoxetine (sold under the brand name Prozac); lamotrigine (sold under the brand name Lamictil); lorazepam (sold under the brand name Ativan); mirtazapine (sold under the brand name Remeron); quetiapine fumarate (sold under the brand name Seroquel); sertaline (sold under the brand name Zoloft); and trazodone, hydroxyzine, amitriptyline, and buspirone.

R165- This seems right. They showed that huge pile of bottles as if she was taking all of the medications simultaneously. Maybe a smart (if deceptive) move by her lawyers to sway public opinion, but kind of unethical in the context of her likely treatment process.

She was sick. I don’t blame her at all. But there was another mother who drowned her children recently (maybe near Coney Island). It also sounded like a case of post partum psychosis, but she was single, poor, and black and is being prosecuted. Medicaid is pretty good insurance, but maybe it’s not so good for mental health or maybe there was nobody around to see how bad she was.

Post partum psychosis is NOT a bad case of new mommy blues.

R163: Thank you for your kind words. I hope you are doing well and your inpatient stay was of benefit to you.

[quote]I love how people have zero sympathy for women with postpartum psychosis. You realize they don't know what they are doing or in Andrea's case she thought she was saving their souls? Misogyny rears its ugly head.

Oh yeah, and people have SO much sympathy for male schizophrenics who stab random people in the street or shove them onto subway tracks, right? Get the fuck out with this misogyny bullshit.

People need to stop with this I need 3 or 4 kids for status and attention BS. I have noticed in 90 percent of these cases the woman doesn't go nuts after one baby. It's when she keeps compulsively having them in short succession again and again. Keep the family small or space em out.

R164 he looks DLs type. Just not as muscular.

R167 She didn’t have post partum. She had anxiety.

None of the meds were anti-psychotics or anything like that. It was Zoloft and Valium. Basically, shit everyone takes.

These meds weren’t all prescribed at the same time. They prescribed her meds, she said they didn’t work, so they gave her something else. Over and over again.

To me, it sounds like she was going to use all of this as a defense. There was no record of her hearing voices until that day. There was nothing in her phone or journals that indicated she was delusional and heard voices.

Seroquel is an anti-psychotic but at low doses is used for sleep/sometimes anxiety. But you are correct in that the others were anti-depressants, benzos and a mood stabilizer (lamotrigine).

R174 right and none of those meds would make you strangle your infant with an exercise belt.

Jesus, why was she given so many benzodiazepines?

I agree, R175. She should have been pretty zoned out on those meds.

I thought that was a very emaciated Anne Heche at OP.

R178- Ahem.

The odd thing was as much as she hated her kids, she wanted to have more kids. Why?

A lot of people like the idea of parenthood as opposed to the reality; her mental illness+medications+social media fixation of what #mommylife should be

I just finished Neal Gabler’s bio of Walter Winchell, a 30’s thru 50’s Piers Morgan prototype - Winchell was a gossip columnist - and while she wasn’t as nutty (their kids were fucked up but she didn’t strangle them), his wife was described as someone who loved babies but not children. She was all over ‘em until they were two or three, then the kids were more or less on their own. Like I said, she didn’t off them as babies but their parenting skills were suspect. Their son committed suicide and the daughter was mentally ill.

Babies are cute. Kids are a handful.

[quote]Medicaid is pretty good insurance, but maybe it’s not so good for mental health or maybe there was nobody around to see how bad she was.

Medicaid actually does cover therapy and psychiatry, moreso than most health plans.

There is never an excuse when people who don't pay for their health insurance don't take advantage of the help they need. Medicaid covered a relative's cancer surgery at NY Presbyterian! Don't ever believe that Medicaid sends patients to the worst doctors and hospitals, that's another GOP lie. Total myth. In fact, most doctors and good hospitals accept Medicaid because they know they will get paid immediately.

Of course, in many instances, these mentally ill individuals somehow manage to make their friends and family think everything is OK, until they snap one day, then kill their kids or someone else. Then, the family and friends come out of the woodwork and tell the press, "How great a mother she was to her kids, there were no signs of mental illness blah, blah, blah." Then, there are the awful CPS workers in NYC, most of them are incompetent. Some of those people don't even show up to check up on families in their system.

I worked at what was a primarily Medicaid clinic (85% of patient population had Medicaid) and the behavioral health therapists and psychiatrists/psychiatric APRNs were excellent. So good psych care can be available with Medicaid (this was in Florida).

[quote]I worked at what was a primarily Medicaid clinic (85% of patient population had Medicaid) and the behavioral health therapists and psychiatrists/psychiatric APRNs were excellent. So good psych care can be available with Medicaid (this was in Florida).

Pretty sure your vile governor, De Satan, will make sure to end all that! His agenda is to take away services his constants actually need and stir up the crazies in his base. This carb-faced creep is always deflecting, he goes on about banning books, going after Disney etc. What a fetid disgusting individual.

Damn auto correct, that would be "constituents."

I hear you, R185/186 with regards to Florida. There is an ever-increasing need for mental health services across the US, regardless of what insurance patients have. It truly is a crisis.

[quote]She didn’t have post partum. She had anxiety.

She did nearly a week inpatient at a major local mental hospital, one famous for treating hard core depression and serious mental illness (McLean). This was three weeks before she snapped. She had a lot more than simple anxiety going on.

Read up on the Thomas Toolan case if you want to see a fraction of what Kevin Reddington is going to do.

Every impairment and victimization known to man will be thrown into the mix and then the pathos level will be cranked up to… I was going to say eleven, but with three tiny children, it’s going to be off the charts.

Three missed first communions; the missed homecoming trip to the auld sod; and three missed BC graduations (maybe one Holy Cross for the underachiever) will set the tone and then he’ll be off and running. If he doesn’t produce a drool-stained my-first-rosary rattle at some point, I will be shocked.

wtf? ^^ @ r189

She was spitting out the mood pills and craftily planning and waiting for the moment to murder her children. Lordy people make up such bullshit when the truth is plain as day.

r189 is referring to Lindsay's colorful local attorney. Those from Boston, understand.

R192, What’s the 411 on Attorney Reddington?

r193 he's from Brockton, tough town with a tough rep. He once notoriously repped Whitey Bulger's girlfriend, Catherine Grieg, so you know there's no fear complex there. He's repped several other high-profile South Shore murder defendents. See the profile here:

When I hear stories like these, if anyone is going to take a child out of the world, it should be done by the mother. I feel less bad about it. It seems like 100,000 years of human nature taking over. I don't mind it.

R195 = Susan Smith

I have a difficult time believing she was in her right mind when she did this. WTF did she think was going to happen? She’s likely spending the rest of her life in prison. Even if she detested her children, why did this eventual scenario, not cross her mind?

I just don’t understand why people do this.

You don’t want to be a parent and a spouse? Then don’t get married or have children. And if you do, just leave them behind. It’s also horrible, but less horrible than murdering your own children.

This case is so bizarre.

When I was much younger, I hung out with a girl regularly, who appeared to despise her kids, and in particularly, despised her youngest son. Our friendship ended due to a situation where I became privy to information, that she was allegedly abusing him.

Even after the police provided me with evidence that she had abused him, and had her kids removed from her custody, she denied it until she was blue in the face. I was really, REALLY naive back then, but I believed what the cops told me.

Eventually, I heard she got her kids back after attending parenting classes.

I think about those kids regularly, knowing they’re adults now. I hope they’re OK.

Not everyone is meant to be a parent.

I think it's better to be dead than trying for the rest of your life to make up for a mom who killed herself. The mother child dynamic is so fundamental it is fraught with so many detrimental issues if gone awry. Look at Madonna.

What? Are you saying her kids are better off dead than surviving had she committed suicide instead of strangling them. I can’t say I agree.

Kevin Reddington is at his most entertaining when he picks up a single thread of diminished capacity and then manages to weave it into the defense equivalent of the Bayeux Tapestry.

I can’t even imagine what he’ll do with the wealth of riches he’s been handed in this case. But thousands of pills will be dumped on the floor in front of the jury at some point; of that I am sure.

The Toolan case, which I mentioned at r189, would have been pretty straightforward in the hands of any other defense attorney, but Reddington brought it up to telenovela level.

Below is just a taste:

[quote]R164 I'd care about this story more if it involved an attractive husband.

Look, he’s a married straight man! What more do you NEED to make all your dreams come true??

In the pic I've seen of (the father), he has some of the skinniest upper arms I've ever seen on a man.

Married straight man? Get you gaydars tuned up.

No sympathy for her at all.

It’s just that there are so many horrific stories you hear when it comes to children. So many stories that break your heart that your brain tries to find some rationale to cope with the tragedy of it all. Much like the boy in a box thread that was going around DL not too long ago. When it comes to these particular horrific stories my brain copes by saying “at least it was the mother” and not some stranger who snatched and tortured some poor terrified child. It’s little peace but it’s something.

Hell Is For Children

[R80] I don't believe for a minute she was on all of those medications at the same time. That likely represents everything they had tried over a period of months. Several of the medications listed were actually in the same class and wouldn't ever be prescribed together.

r207 my first psychiatric hospitalization was in 2004, on the psych unit of a private general hospital. I was in for eleven days for severe depression stemming from previously un-diagnosed bipolar disorder. By the time I was discharged from the hospital, I had been prescribed lithium, Depakote, Seroquel, Geodon, Buspar, and (I think?) Abilify. They added a new med every other day because my depression was not improving. (And they never stopped any of the meds.)

I can totally believe it.

My pet hamster ate all of babies the day after she had them. I was horrified and cried. My parents explained to me it was nature. Maybe she wasn’t healthy enough to be a mom, maybe the babies were sick, maybe they were delicious.

I do believe that she has Post Partum Psychosis-

Those kids were all adorable and its just beyond tragic...

She will be in prison for life most likely.

I cannot fathom what she will feel once reality sets in and this psychosis abates. (Does it? or does it permanently make someone straight up crazy?)

When I was young there was a local family where the mother killed the kids and then herself but it was so gruesome and I don't remember she staged it to like this way but the father ended up getting charged with murder. He was eventually exonerated but it took several years.

R211 Who? I want to google that one- it sounds crazy- I love True crime stories.

It was only a twenty(20) foot fall from the house window.

Is that enough to kill someone?

I wonder when she actually made the decision and what finally set her off. Did one of the kids give her a look?

If anyone in her life has an ounce of compassion for this woman they will give her access to something that will allow her to finish the job and kill herself.

R212 here you go.

She is a paraplegic now. That may make it more difficult for her to finish the job. She’s not a quadriplegic, like in that boxing movie, but it’s still going to limit her options especially since her access to drugs will probably restricted and nobody is going to let her near a weapon.

I thought her paralysis was temporary.

R218, A couple of bone fractures that will heal and with PT she’ll be good as new.

We’re not talking Christopher Reeve injuries here.

The only place I've heard her paralysis was temporary is DL

R220, Her lawyer, Reddington, is a known drama queen. He played up her injuries to the judge at her arraignment. She only fell twenty feet onto soft ground and sustained a couple of small fractures which will heal.

Paralyzed, my ass.

From Newsweek:

"She is not paralyzed. She can move her legs and feet. She can move her arms." Lindsay Clancy has also been writing and is able to verbally communicate, she added.

wtf with the husband?

I understand she is the woman he loves and married but the psycho just killed all their kids. He can feel compassion for whatever she was going through but I cannot believe he asks the public to forgive her. He should fucking divorce her and start over with a new family.

r223 = Rusty Yates

Why is Reddington considered a good lawyer? His clients get the max or life, mostly. There’s no death penalty in MA so he’s not saving them from the chair. Mrs Whitey got 8 years with him as her lawyer for not talking. Perry Mason he’s not.

R225, Whitey’s gf was released early, she’s been free for a while.

R226, Not released early, but she’s been free since 2020.

Lindsey Clansy arraignment hearing. Very chilling. Her attorney is really pushing the idea that the drugs made her do it. As the prosecutor states, she was never on more than 4-5 medications at a time and was only on 3 medications by the time she committed the murders (maybe she should have been on more). If the testimony of the prosecutor is correct, this was premeditated.

The husband wasn’t at all suspicious when she sent him to a restaurant quite a distance away from their house to pick up takeout, knowing her mental state?

She also sent him to CVS to obtain an unneeded stool softener for one of the children to give herself more time for the murders.

She had gone on Apple Maps to gauge how much time she would have with hubby away to commit the murders.

Andrea Yates also used a window of opportunity to kill her children (after Rusty had left for work, and before her mother-in-law was scheduled to arrived). There was SOME degree of premeditation. She's still nuts.

Give the bitch life in prison. She should have offed herself first.

I believe that there was clear evidence that Andrea Yates was psychotic. That does not appear to be the case with these murders. The only similarity is that both cases involve a mother killing her children. Yates was delusional and her husband and everyone else (family/friends) knew it. If Clancy was delusional, she was far better at hiding it from her family and psychiatrists. She didn't mention hearing "voices" until after the fact and to the psychiatrist hired by her defense council. Based on her symptoms and timeline, I don't think there is any way she could be diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. I guess that's why the defense is going for "the drugs did it".

This case is not even a month old. I'm sure a whole lot more will come out.

A lot more will come out in the trial, for sure. I am sure she had post partum psychosis but I bet she had some psychological issues before she had kids.

I have a no-nonsense female cousin who had post-partum depression. She told me she felt like hurting her baby. I forgot whether she was talking about her 1st or 2nd baby (she had 2, total). Coming from her, a very non-dramatic person, I believed it 100%.

My sister had a friend with a colicky baby and when they were talking on the phone the friend jokingly said “I am going to kill this baby!” My sister was at her house in a flash, made her friend take a shower, took care of the baby, cleaned up and got dinner started. She checked in on her every day and helped out whenever she could.

Her friend was fine, raised 3 well adjusted kids. 30 years later she admitted to my sister that she seriously wanted to kill her baby.

It's almost like temporary demonic possession, if you are prone to believe stuff like that. This isn't the first time a perfectly normal woman has a few kids, after one of the births slips from depression to something deeper and less controlled then onto an out-of-control psychotic state. Rare, but happens.

It's like something about the vulnerability of having given birth, and the subsequent weakened mental or psychic state (chemically or hormonally caused?) leads to control by outside/external entities, who push or get them to harm themselves and the children. The hearing of voices, the lack of control, the conviction that what they're doing is necessary. I mean, if you don't believe in outside possession fine, but it makes one give pause to entertaining it as a far-fetched theory.

This is one reason I haven't had kids. I already have depression, the post-partum hormones would probably turn me homicidal.

If a girl - woman takes a low dose of progesterone for 20 years, she is not going to have a natural reaction to pregnancy and birth hormones.

Wanting to kill your baby is NOT normal or acceptable. Birth control needs to be studied with longer longitudinal effects, including years after giving birth.

post-partum depression is real but c'mon, if this woman gets off for killing her kids then what's next? We'll just start saying anyone who has a period of mental illness is excused from terrible crimes they commit? Most mentally ill people do not harm anyone else. If she felt she was going through something then she should have sought out therapy, maybe even removed herself from the home and stayed in a hotel for a while.

Its not so easy to just "remove yourself" from a bunch of kids when you're their mother.

Once I was at a job and was "mobbed" / bullied by management and my spirit sank, depressed, yet I was a nervous wreck, to boot, as the job was a necessary stepping stone. I wanted to kill one particular bitch boss. But I did not.

This woman is a murderer and a very high danger to society.

R239 I doubt very much this kind of thing has only been happening since hormonal birth control was available.

R242 post partum psychosis, whether this woman had it or not, is not in the same galaxy as getting bullied at work and wanting to kill your boss.

r239 is unfamiliar with Medea

R244 im not r242 but childbirth and chronic bullying are both extreme life stressors that can sometimes result in people snapping. It's kind of silly how many people are demanding this woman be given a special pass that no one would give to another mentally ill individual. People need to go to work to survive. She didn't really need another kid that she was clearly psychologically unequipped to handle. She didn't like having kids so another kid at that point was just about status.

Unless there's a boyfriend on the side uninterested in having children (ala Susan Smith and Casey Anthony) and this woman's pathologically self-centered (all highly doubtful), it seems this must be severe postpatrum psychosis. What else could it be? What a horrible event.

Someone upthread mentioned Brooke Shields. I vaguely remember Tom Cruise publicly condemning her for taking antidepressants for severe postpartum depression. I also vaguely remember she was pretty gracious in responding to him. How did he get by with that?

↑Those are not the only 2 options. She can be mentally ill without it being postpartum psychosis. She can even be psychotic (though her symptoms do not indicate that she is) without it being PPP. I don't doubt she's mentally ill, but that doesn't mean no severe consequences to what she has done. People that butcher and eat their victims are also mentally ill and often suffered abuse as children. Doesn't mean they spend a few months in a mental facility and are back in society.

I don’t think anyone has expectations that she will ever be back in society, r248. Life in prison/psychiatric facility.

R249, Don’t forget, this happened in Massachusetts, the most liberal state in the country.

[quote]I vaguely remember Tom Cruise publicly condemning her for taking antidepressants for severe postpartum depression.

(Childishly) I'm quoting myself to say that I just read that the district attorney (who's prosecuting Ms. Clancy on charges of first-degree murder) is named Tim Cruze.

Anyway, he's described in the NYT as "a rare Republican prosecutor in Massachusetts" who "is widely seen as uncompromising". This must be disheartening for her husband and family.

^ postpartum

^Cruz

[quote]She can be mentally ill without it being postpartum psychosis. She can even be psychotic (though her symptoms do not indicate that she is) without it being PPP. I don't doubt she's mentally ill, but that doesn't mean no severe consequences to what she has done. People that butcher and eat their victims are also mentally ill and often suffered abuse as children. Doesn't mean they spend a few months in a mental facility and are back in society.

And even if it WERE post-partum psychosis, I don't see why she should be treated any differently than someone who killed three children while suffering from any other type of psychosis, e.g. garden-variety schizophrenia. From my understanding, schizophrenia is one of those mental disorders that are mostly caused by genetics and are really more neurological than psychological, so it's not something that you can prevent/overcome by "working on yourself".

I feel like a lot of people make excuses for murderous mothers because they see women whose mental illness was triggered by childbirth/pregnancy as tragic martyrs, while others are simply looked at as evil sickos for committing similar crimes. Women are still put on a pedestal for giving birth, and frankly I'm sick of it. The only thing that should be taken into account is whether or not she was certifiably insane when she killed those children, not what caused that condition. Post-partum psychosis is NOT more "real" than any other type of psychosis.

The trial will be interesting that's for sure.

[quote]Post-partum psychosis is NOT more "real" than any other type of psychosis.

r253 = Thomas Szasz

[quote]post-partum depression is real but c'mon, if this woman gets off for killing her kids then what's next?

Well, PMS is real too, so...

The "the drugs made her do it!!" defense is ridiculous because you don't end up on a cocktail of a dozen heavy psych meds unless you're severely, dangerously mentally ill. Also, in my experience midwives tend to be outspoken earth mother types who would NOT blindly follow a doctor's advice. They're more likely to act like they're smarter than doctors, warn you about the dangers of "chemicals" and push "natural remedies". If Lindsay Clancy really took all that stuff, something must have been very very off with her.

Supposedly a lot of people in her community are supporting her. Weird but I've always found new England a bit weird ( though their small towns are quite charming).

R258 "I do not know a better mother" Hmmmm

R258, Unbelievably, there were those here in Massachusetts who supported the Boston Marathon bomber and still do.

Their thinking is that he was under the control/influence of his older brother.

R259 A cokehead stripper who names her children after car models and feeds them Cheetos all day is still a better mother than Lindsay just by virtue of not offing them.

R259: "“I do not know a better mother than Lindsay Clancy,” wrote nurse Erika Sevieri, who worked alongside Clancy at Massachusetts General Hospital. “She lived and breathed for her children.”

“I did not know a better mother than Lindsay Clancy,” wrote nurse Erika Sevieri, who worked alongside Clancy at Massachusetts General Hospital. “She lived and breathed for her children until she strangled them.”

Fixed that for Erika...

R257- I agree. It's going to be really hard arguing in front of a jury, with the reputation that McLean has, that her psychiatrist acted recklessly.

Psychosis is a scary-sounding word, but it's a feature of many, many clinical diagnoses, including major depression. You can be going through a severe episode of psychosis and still know the difference between right and wrong. The prosecution and defense will, I am assuming, bring in psychiatrists to testify on the potential side effects of the drugs she was prescribed (the ones she was supposed to be taking) at the time. From the bottles I saw in the photo that was posted, the argument that they caused a violent, psychotic break is a really thin one. I hope they did blood sample tests on her, as well, at the hospital. They'll be able to tell which medications she was actually taking.

R241 NOW you’re making excuses for her. They had a father who was working from home.

She was a rich woman from Duxbury and the Dad worked from home. They had all sorts of resources to do something.

This is why I agree with R240. This nonsense I see in this thread is she was a woman with a mental illness, she couldn’t help it.

R264 They were mostly ADHD drugs they give to kids! Which is exactly what the prosecution will say.

And WHY are we still talking about postpartum when prosecution said she wasn’t being treated for it because her doctors said she didn’t have it? She was evaluated and they said no. Massachusetts literally has some of the best doctors in the world. She wasn’t being treated by some quack in Kansas. She’s a Boston nurse with access to probably the best healthcare in the country.

So all this healthcare crisis and postpartum talk don’t make any sense.

R267 “Don’t make any sense”.

Oh, dear! I meant doesn’t.

R266 Please specify the ADHD meds she was on. ADHD meds are stimulants. She was prescribed a mixture of SSRI antidepressants, or specific serotonin reuptake inhibators, benzodiazepines and antipsychotic and antiseizure drugs in the months leading up to the killings. These included Prozac, Zoloft, Trazodone, Seroquel, Amitryptiline, Remeron, Valium, Klonopin, Ativan and Lamictal.

Not a single ADHD med listed....

R268 Prozac and Valium make you psychotic?

The biggest argument to be made is she wasn’t actually take them if anything.

Initial reports stated that grandparents had temporarily moved into the house to help out.

That has not been reported since, although a grandmother and a great grandmother were interviewed while laying flowers outside the house the day after the murders.

You never hear about fathers going this fucking crazy.

When parenthood gets too hard, a father just leaves.

When parenthood gets too hard, a mother snaps and gruesomely murders her entire family.

R272 About 90% of family annihilators are men. When it comes to murdering children, it's close to equal between mothers and fathers. But most cases (in either case) are never reported in the national news.

R272, Not really. How many times have we read of stressed out fathers wiping out their wives, kids and themselves?

R273 Citation needed, if you please

R275- There's more recent, publicly accessible studies out of Australia and Canada showing similar results. This was the most recent large-scale study in the United States I could find without going to a database.

Umm r272? We'd like to have a word with you.

[quote]And WHY are we still talking about postpartum when prosecution said she wasn’t being treated for it because her doctors said she didn’t have it? She was evaluated and they said no.

What was she being treated and evaluated for during her nearly one-week stay at McLean Hospital then? if not for serious mental issues, post-partum and otherwise.

You don't do inpatient like that without a very serious reason. Nearly all treatment these days is outpatient-based.

Harvard-affiliated Mass General Hospital employee goes to Harvard teaching hospital McLean's in Belmont most likely paid for by her MGH/Harvard-level health insurance. And McLean's had an empty bed on New Year's Day.

That's how, R278.

R278 Not when someone is classified as suicidal. You don’t go to a hospital saying you’re going to kill yourself and others and stay for 24 hours lol. They’ll keep you in there until they feel you’re not a harm to yourself.

My point, R280, was how she got there, not why. Someone else in Boston in her situation would be lucky to score a bed at BMC, let alone McLean's.

My guess is that the MGH connection helped get her admitted to one of the best psych hospitals in the US where presumably she got good care.

But now, arguably, not good enough care when she kills her kids three weeks later.

One of Phil Donahue’s sons was a patient at McLean Hospital back in the 1980s when a friend of mine worked there.

His son was being treated for pyromania.

The hospital was abuzz one evening when Phil and Marlo came for a visit.

Ray Charles was there instead of jail. Rick James was there for rehab. James Packer, the Australian who almost married Mariah was there.

As was Mrs. Clancy.

McLean's is an excellent mental health facility.

You bitches are slipping!

R272 What planet are you on? Don’t you ever read about murder-suicides in the news? They happen all the time with the perp being the father. There was just a huge one in Utah last month (8 dead). And let’s not forget DL fave Chris Watts who killed his family.

R283, Joan Kennedy has been a patient there, as well.

She sure did . . .

Reddington's favorite expert witness is a McLean psychiatrist. The guy just does not flinch.

During the Edgewater shooting trial, even after evidence was presented which showed the defendant had purchased clinical psych books on malingering and had done internet searches for "how to fake a mental illness," he never showed even a fleeting glimpse of "WTF? Is anyone believing this?" as he insisted that the defendant truly believed he was sent though a time portal by St. Michael, on a mission to sneak into Hitler's bunker and kill everyone in it.

That was yet another case of homicidal ideation as a side effect of every drug from aspirin to zolpidem, and a few dozen diagnoses thrown at the wall to see which ones would stick. They even dragged out Cotard's syndrome!

OMG . . . I didn’t realize Reddington was “Mucko’s” lawyer, the Edgewater killer.

That occurred in the town where I was living then, Wakefield, Massachusetts.

Mucko got 7 life sentences without the possibility of parole. The defense wasn’t very effective.

R291, One of his victims was a new mother, murdered on her first day back at work after maternity leave.

[quote]The defense wasn’t very effective.

Statistically speaking, it never is.

The insanity defense is only employed in ~1% of felony cases. Of those, the success rate is about 20-25%. And of those, it's almost always due to a plea agreement.

They get an inordinate amount of attention due to the spectacle factor.

James Taylor was one of McLean's most famous patients. He wrote "Fire and Rain" about a suicidal girl he knew there.

McLean’s is impressive. Kitty Dukakis also stayed there when she was depressed and drank bleach.

R295, It was rubbing alcohol, not bleach.

What didn't she drink?

[quote]BOSTON -- Kitty Dukakis, wife of 1988 Democratic presidential candidate Gov. Michael Dukakis, drank hair spray, after-shave, and other household products to induce 'oblivion' and fight depression before seeking treatment earlier this year, a published report said Sunday.

[quote]The Massachusetts first lady wrote in her new book that she ingested mouthwash, after-shave, vanilla extract, nail-polish remover, and Tylenol laced with codeine before entering an Alabama clinic in April to combat her substance-abuse problem, the Boston Sunday Globe reported.

[quote]Despite seeking help in February 1989 at the Edgehill Treatment Center in Newport, R.I., Dukakis said, she suffered relapses when she returned home.

[quote]Following her hospitalization after drinking rubbing alcohol, Dukakis says she ingested the after-shave and hair spray while home for Christmas from a psychiatric hospital.

I remember years ago having to pull over on the Storrow Drive at Charles Circle in Boston for an ambulance surrounded by State Troopers to go by me and then onto Charles Street and the MGH one night. The trooper escort made me think there’d been a cop shooting or bad accident.

Nope. It was in the papers the next morning. Kitty Dukakis was being rushed from Brookline to the hospital because she’d sprayed a can of Adorn hairspray down her throat trying to get high from the alcohol content.