Alan Cumming returns his OBE.

Who?

Bless his heart.

That will help those suffering indigenous people!

He's miserable because his thighs chafe.

Peacock doesn't have much of a marketing budget, he's gotta generate publicity for his new show somehow.

Did he finally read the fine print on the medal and realise what the BE in OBE stood for?

What a mess! For everyone!

But he'll happily enjoy all the amenities of London, built on the spoils of empire.

What conversations were had after the Queens death, that weren't had while she was alive? I really like him and if he felt he had to do it, then he had to do it. I'm surprised about Michael Sheen though, especially since he played the Queen.

Another 'who cares ?' story. This should never had made the media.

[quote]'m surprised about Michael Sheen though, especially since he played the Queen.

Elizabeth or Victoria?

[...]

How did he ever scored Saffron Burrows, with that face?

Uh-oh. "Returning your OBE" is last-ditch stuff for attention-starved celebrities. Poor Alan.

Good for him. More Brits need to step up like this.

[quote]But he'll happily enjoy all the amenities of London, built on the spoils of empire.

He lives in America. Why did they even give him one?

Really annoys me celebs flying here to get their honours then jetting back to LA & NYC -

Dame Anna Wintour DBE for example. She had no business getting a damehood. Being given one nor accepting it.

The British Royal Family is OVER. It died with Elizabeth.

Take it up with your aged, puffy monarchy, r16.

really, how pretentious of him

I know nuthin' 'bout this but I'll post an ignorant comment anyway.

[quote]Take it up with your aged, puffy monarchy, [R16].

I don't know them. If I did, I would.

[quote]massive eyeroll

Now we're talkin'!

Decolonialists insist the empire was an exploitative, racist project akin to the Third Reich. Biggar says it had “no essential motivation”. Merchant adventurers struck out; companies followed; the government stepped in to formalise and bring order, cooking up a moral purpose to justify what was already under way. Once empire began, retreat was considered impossible, though many a Briton wondered if it was right or affordable.

It could be racist; it also “contained respect, admiration, and genuine, well-informed, costly benevolence.” Cecil Rhodes, whom Biggar recently gained an unwanted level of fame by defending, apparently regarded Englishman and African as essentially the same, different only by degree of civilisation – and was this such a surprising assessment given the obvious technological advancement of the West? The arrival of Christianity eroded local cultures, for sure, but it also meant a war on widow burning in India or Female Genital Mutilation in Africa.

Our ancestors plundered, true, but they also laid railways and built schools. “In Kenya annual infant mortality among Africans declined from 300-500 deaths per thousand live births in the 1920s to 145 in the 1950s,” Biggar notes. In Uganda and the Gold Coast it roughly halved. An Egyptian historian wrote, in 1968, that the British management brought “low taxation, efficient fiscal administration... The real per capita income during the first decade of [the 20th] century was higher than at any time in modern Egyptian history, with the possible exception of the early 1920s.”

Order was maintained by force. In the wake of the 1857 Indian Mutiny, British soldiers compelled rebels to “lick the blood” from the floor, and sewed Muslims into pig skins before hanging them. But “the heart of the Raj actually repudiated” the killing, and it provoked “a lot of self-criticism at home.” Indeed, decolonisation’s focus on the evils of empire tends to omit from the record those Britons who opposed it, painting a two-dimensional picture of our historical character. Frederick Douglass, the black American reformer, arrived in England in 1845 and found “in every man a recognition of my manhood”, lacking the hatred he had to contend with back home. The campaign for the abolition of slavery was “widely popular”.

^ >2:

How one views the British empire perhaps hinges on its relationship to slavery. You can lament that it profited from it or you can celebrate the fact that it abolished it (at significant cost). The fully moral being, Biggar suggests, is capable of both, acknowledging the culture or limited choices of our ancestors. It is distasteful, for example, that slave-owners were compensated for the loss of their “property” – but contemporary reformers found it as depressing as we do, judging that a little compromise was necessary to avoid coercion and get a good thing done.

Decolonisers emphasise the role of slavery in the economy of early empire yet the later empire – the episode that looms largest in the imagination, when we were scrambling for Africa and ruling the waves – was motivated in part by the effort to eradicate the trade: “It compelled General Charles Gordon into the Sudan… It found expression in the principles of the Imperial British East Africa Company.” In Malaysia and Indonesia, Sir Stamford Raffles “abolished the importation of slaves” and emancipated them at Bencoolen, establishing a school for their children. The fact that some of this was not known to me suggests that far from British culture brainwashing us to be mini-imperialists, things have swung the other way. There is much that is benign about our civilisation that has been forgotten.

Biggar’s book is a thoughtful, compelling text that one can imagine readers plundering for facts and quotes to deploy in dinner-table debate. One can also see the criticisms a mile off.

The author might insist he is not an empire fan, but by marshalling so much evidence in its mitigation, the text inevitably reads as an apologia. At the same time, the tone is so dispassionate as to be Vulcan. “Whatever one thinks of ‘blowing from a gun’,” he writes of that hideous execution method used by the British in India, “it was not indiscriminate, insofar as the victim had been judged guilty of some crime.” I’d still prefer a slap on the wrist.

Biggar has attracted sympathy as a gentle academic who stumbled into the culture wars as if it were a patch of nettles, yet this book is clearly provocative. Imperialism and colonialism were distinct things, he writes in the introduction, and he prefers to avoid the terms because they do no justice to the amorphous character of this complex phenomenon – but then what does he call his book? Colonialism! The professor is spoiling for a fight, and I fear he’s going to get one.

Isn’t he Scottish? I thought they hated the Queen. Or maybe it’s Ireland? The Royals are just so divisive.

There's not much substance to his why but I suppose all the Grauniad cares about is scoring the point.

He's an insufferable cunt, even when he's right. But what Empire is he talking about? And what indigenous.peoples have his panties in a twist this time?

Is is because he had too many of Greg's prunes that he has that perennially priggish pursed-lipped face? Or is Victorian Imperialism to blame for that, too?

Off-topic but does he ping to anyone else?

What an irrelevant former empire you live in r20.

I never understood his success and fame. One minute he was in some crappy UK sitcom next he was the toast of Broadway and a major US celeb - bleating about being stalked by his admirers and selling "sexy" colognes with his name on.

[quote]The DL hopes you and yours are having a very merry Brexit!

You speak for DL, do you? In other words you're a "we" troll AKA the worst of DL.

And you, r31, are a "wee" troll.

Will Alan renounce his American citizenship when he learns about slavery and the slaughter of Native Americans?

[quote]Will Alan renounce his American citizenship when he learns about slavery and the slaughter of Native Americans?

Hmmm, let me see if there are any tax consequences to that; I'll get back to you

Citizenship isn't an honor. There's no point in renouncing citizenship, and comparing that to rejecting an award is asinine.

Well, I never in all my life!

The BRF stans are already invading this thread. I really wish they would find another website to infest. Datalounge is not royalist and royalists are NOT progressives, they're conservatives in every sense and they need to get the fuck off of DL.

Camilla, you are the Queen CONSORT which everyone knows in your case is both a noun and a verb.

[quote]Citizenship isn't an honor. There's no point in renouncing citizenship, and comparing that to rejecting an award is asinine.

He chose to become an American citizen. That's quite different than being born into it.

More fake progressive shenanigans to drum up media space and pat himself on the back.

Who really gives a shit!

Good for him.

In all honesty they should probably rename the award Order of British Excellence or Merit or something else and have done with it. I doubt anyone would overly care. The complaints about progressives should all do this, and the monarchy seem fairly tacked on though. Most countries in the world have an honours system even republics, and it seems to be implying we're going to be forgiven for imperialism if we suddenly become a republic.

He's one of those men who was self-consciously "naughty" when he was 15 in order to get attention, and he has never grown out of that mindset. He still sees himself as a horny adolescent.

I've known and even worked with some guys like that, and I always find them deeply annoying and deeply selfish.

Oh blow it out your ass Alan. Everyone knows the history of the Empire and you've kept it on your mantle for 14 years.

This is similar virtue signalling to Tammy returning his Golden Globes, just trying to look good to avoid castigation from the twitter mobs

[quote]He chose to become an American citizen. That's quite different than being born into it.

Not in the eyes of the law it isn't, which is the whole point of citizenship.

Speaking of points, do you have one? Because citizenship is still not the same thing as an award or a prize, which is all these silly little honors are anyway. A queen on a tiny island bestowed it on him as a special little treat, a symbol of her approval -- that's it. That's all it is. It's not the same thing as citizenship no matter how much you argue otherwise.

Klan grannys are PRESSED over this.

Agree R8 and would extend that to anyone in a Western democracy. We all live off the spoils of prior colonization and we all benefit (though many are in economic enslavement to) the current corporate hegemony. Giving back a meaningless award given by the toothless relic that is British royal family? Wow, how amazing! /s

Is Alan going to distribute all his worldly earnings back to people oppressed by colonialization? Ah, no. Of course not. Is he going to speak out against corporations and private equity firms? Why, never, as they foot the productions in which he participates. Hell, if you asked this man to give up his iPhone (which is pretty much built with slave labor) he'd probably get the vapors. So sick of the moralistic hypocrites who engage in meaningless pandering for back pats.

R38 Oh, do toss off.

Ummmmm.....but he accepted that honour feeling what way about the Empire?

What does that say for non whites who decide to keep their OBE medals?

What is the effect on society at large when a person is awarded MBE, OBE, etc? I know an MBE and she is just absolutely lovely. Admits mistakes, treats everyone like she would want to be treated, does a lot of secretive charity. She also has an online group of over 800 where she is essentially the agony aunt for everyone, and she sees her award as a reason to do more helpful activities.

I also know an OBE and at first he seemed awesome, fun, and friendly. Then, I found out he is a Jordan Peterson fan, is always one upping people and has a mean streak. He is very arrogant and recently bragged online about certifying himself through his own companies training course and congratulated himself online for it.

Doing a public protest like Alan seems a bit performative. It may be a more effective protest to turn it down when it’s first offered.

[quote] Take it up with your aged, puffy monarchy, [R16].

...and his equine consort.

[quote] Is is because he had too many of Greg's prunes that he has that perennially priggish pursed-lipped face? Or is Victorian Imperialism to blame for that, too?

No, not Victorian Imperialism—definitely one of my prunes.

Oh god I’m Cumming!

But the "toxic legacy of the British Empire" didn't stop him from keeping his OBE for 14 years. Although I agree it's beyond time that the name of British Orders change to reflect the reality that the empire ended nearly 70 years ago now, returning your OBE is a token gesture that does nothing. The rumour is that King Charles wants to change the name of the order to the Order of British Excellence and this likely going to happen by the coronation. Just a reminder that America (where Alan now lives) continued with slavery and segregation long after the British Empire had outlawed it.

Cumming is a Scottish nationalist. He campaigned for Scottish independence in 2014 despite not having lived there for years or being registered to vote in the referendum.

He knows exactly what the honours system is and what it represents. God knows how many high profile people have refused an honour despite their achievements.

He and Sheen are just playing to the gallery of self righteousness in their typical hammy ways. In Cumming’s case just wait until he finds out about Scotland’s history of slave ownership and colonisation of the Americas.

And you, r37, are not the dispassionate intellectual you think you are.

But keep it up, you're wildly entertaining.

R51, I'd point out the OBE doesn't shape character. It's just an award for excellence or service.

Rejecting it in the first place would have 'shaped character' R58.

Hardly. You are who you are. Rejecting a prize doesn't turn you into Mother Theresa. Do try harder.

Waste.O.Time.

Across the world and history, one group with superior weapons, military, and numbers has captured and enslaved other groups.

Do people think the Aztecs and Mayans didn't do it? Who do they think sold Africans to the white devils in the first place? White people were displacing and stealing land from each other thoughout history.

You don't get to pick and choose history to suit the narrative you want to tell.

[quote] The BRF stans are already invading this thread. I really wish they would find another website to infest. Datalounge is not royalist and royalists are NOT progressives, they're conservatives in every sense and they need to get the fuck off of DL.

You don’t know what Datalounge is, hon.

British Royal Pedophile Family. Bunch of Nazi sympathizing wank heads!

[quote] What is the effect on society at large when a person is awarded MBE, OBE, etc? I know an MBE and she is just absolutely lovely. Admits mistakes, treats everyone like she would want to be treated, does a lot of secretive charity.

It’s Bouquet.

Debunked. Intelligent people know that. Jeez. So dull.

Drama queen

Why did he accept it in the first place?

what's he been up to? still acting? haven't seen anything he's been in lately.

he also checked out a friend on my in the street, a lipstick lesbian. she is drop dead beautiful. he looked at her for a long time, many years ago.

I was going to make a glib comment but yeah, good for him. Others should follow.

[quote]what's he been up to? still acting? haven't seen anything he's been in lately.

[quote]Rejecting a prize doesn't turn you into Mother Theresa.

That old scam artist?

Well he had his own series prepandemic, he was the star, and nobody watched it.

Whenever you ask a question about an actor - what's he been up to. There is a VERY EASY source of information, lazy bones.

He works NON STOP.

Prince Harry should take a leaf out of his book. He has nothing good to say about monarchy, imperialism or Britain.

R3, when it comes to indigenous people of the British Empire, I am sure he is talking about the people of Scotland.

As a Scot, he is just preparing for Indy Ref.

YES!

I hope King Charles does rename it, and also rethink it. What is the point of it, to honor some goober who did a decent job entertaining people for a couple of years. There's plenty of awards for that. Actors love handing out awards to each other almost as much as they love bitching about how undeserved they all are and how everyone who ever got one really sucks. What is the purpose of an OBE really? What exactly is being honored? Why?

Dodgy old cocksucker. Traitors is just about what he is good for at this point.

Why not just give it back? No need for a bearking news conference, Cumming.

It needs to be replaced with something like the Order of the United Kingdom.

I know someone who will take it.

Those things - there isn't an awards dinner or something terrible like that where you have to eat, is there?

[quote]he is just preparing for Indy Ref.

Don't hold your breath.

[quote] the Grauniad cares about is scoring the point.

The Grauniad hates everybody and everything.

R37, R40 I just wonder what you imagine the word "progressive"means.

i sat next to him and his husband on a flight from nyc to sf.

he was dreadful, but his husband was charming.

Nobody gets given an OBE. Once an individual has been nominated, an award is offered and it has to be accepted. You don’t just wake up one morning and unwittingly have it bestowed.

I like AC a lot. But what a fucking fool to only now develop qualms about empire. What is he? Headless?

[quote] Debunked. Intelligent people know that. Jeez. So dull.

Debunked what?

[quote] Traitors is just about what he is good for at this point.

Try English.

R87 is referring to a TV show called 'Traitors'

Alan likes to think he is more influential than he is - which is not a lot.

[quote][R3], when it comes to indigenous people of the British Empire, I am sure he is talking about the people of Scotland. As a Scot, he is just preparing for Indy Ref. YES!

The Scottish are the most racist part of the UK. Deeply hostile to foreigners. The SNP party conferences are like a white supremacist rally. They wheel out hapless Humza as the token non-white to show they're diverse.

r90 = Boris Johnson

Alan Cumming is learning from the Sam Smith handbook for wokeness. Music award categories should be genderless etc.

They have nothing else going on in their lives, hence the tub-thumping.

I suspect it's one thing to get such an honor but a queen respected around the world, despite the sins of the empire. But now ol' King Charles in on the throne, and the bloom is REALLY off the rose. The rose being the "Empire".

I agree Charles should rename this going forward.

to get this honor FROM a queen respected

R91 is very relaxed about white supremacy as long as it's McWhite Supremacy.

Why do so many old gay men favor these hideous Le Corbusier specs: yep black circles enframing owl eyes, arms stretched far and wide to rest the ears, almost, and a smug pair of pursed-lips beneath?

^^^ He thinks he looks like an artist, writer, architect or similar creative.

In reality, he looks like a frigid lesbian librarian in an Agatha Christie adaptation.

Thank you R88......I guess I should have used the quotation marks.....the way you did. 'Traitors' - the show had already been mentioned in the thread so I didn't think anyone could be so clueless as to misunderstand the reference.

R42, I agree the title should be changed to something like Order of British Excellence, although these honours have nothing to do with the British empire, it's simply a continuation of the old name.

What's truly insulting about Alan Cumming's empty gesture is that it belittles all the people who work hard for charity, support organisations, with survivors, community groups, etc. who feel truly honoured that their work is recognised when they are awarded an MBE or OBE.

Charity sector leaders recognised in New Year Honours list

A number of people across the charity sector have received recognition in the New Year Honours List 2023.

Scope chair receives knighthood

Scope’s chair, Robin Millar, has been recognised in the King’s New Year’s honours list.

He is one of the world’s leading record producers having gained 150 gold and platinum discs including 44 number 1 hits, representing over £400 million in sales worldwide. He also has the progressive condition Retinitis Pigmentosa and was registered blind at 16 years old, with no sight since 1985.

Millar said: “I am so proud to receive this honour. In particular, I welcome the opportunity it brings to raise more attention about the need for disability equality.”

Big Give chair receives CBE

James Reed, the driving force behind the charity Big Give and chairman of the Reed Group, has been awarded the CBE, for services to business and charity.

Reed is the chair of the board of trustees at Big Give and has helped to build it into the UK’s most successful match funding platform, raising more than £233m for over 14,000 different charities in the last 15 years.

He said: “This is a great surprise and a great honour. It makes me want to double down on Big Give’s charitable goal of raising £1bn for good causes through the concept of match funding, which we have pioneered - bringing in philanthropists, companies and foundations to double the value of public donations to thousands of charities.”

Power the Fight CEO honoured Benjamin Lindsay, chief executive of Power the Fight, has been recognised for services to the community in South East London.

Former Seafarers’ CEO awarded OBE

Catherine Spencer, has been awarded the Order of the British Empire (OBE). She took on the role of CEO of The Seafarers’ Charity in June 2019 and was in post for less than a year before Covid-19 caused the UK to enter lockdown.

In response to the crisis, The Seafarers’ Charity’s trustees released an additional £2m from the charity’s reserves to support the welfare of seafarers.

In July 2022, Catherine moved to a new role as chief executive with health care research organisation Cochrane.

Gambling with Lives co-founders awarded MBE

Liz and Charles Ritchie have both been awarded an MBE in the New Year Honours List for services to charity and to families bereaved by gambling-related suicide.

They lost their son Jack in 2017 at the age of 24 after he had been drawn into gambling on highly addictive machines while still at school. Liz and Charles set up the charity Gambling with Lives in 2018.

Liz Ritchie said: “This award is really for all the families searching for justice for those that have died. This is for Jack and for all the others – unfortunately too many to name.”

Charles Ritchie added: “This award is a recognition of the hard work of many people, including many bereaved families, who have fought to reform gambling in the UK for so long, including for years before we became involved in this issue.”

RNLI volunteers recognised

Five RNLI volunteers with nearly 240 years of service between them are among those who have been recognised by King Charles.

These include a lifeboat volunteer of 62 years, and a fundraiser of 52 years who has helped raise nearly £2m, as well as a campaigner who after losing her son to drowning has supported water safety education.

Mark Dowie, RNLI chief executive, said: “I have found you can never make assumptions about the people you meet in all roles within the RNLI; they all have fascinating back-stories and I often leave a visit feeling profoundly humbled.”

Excellence Not Empire

The campaign group Excellence Not Empire is calling for the honours system to change so that Order of the British Empire changes to Order of British Excellence. It argues that this would make the honours system more inclusive, and be a move to acknowledging Britain’s colonial past.

Did it smell of lube and crap when he returned it?

[quote]The Scottish are the most racist part of the UK. Deeply hostile to foreigners.

That includes white foreigners, too.

Preach R102! I could tell some stories. The most racist place I've lived in- and I've been around. Openly using offensive language, the 'n' word used frequently. This was in Edinburgh by the way.

I am an American who has a lot of Scottish ancestry. Except for my accent, I fit in perfectly amongst the Scottish, looks-wise. Even I've been treated shabbily when I've been to Scotland.

So, a couple things about the OBE:

It continues to be called an OBE not just out of tradition but because technically it's not an exclusively "British" order. Citizens of many Commonwealth countries (particularly smaller countries that don't have their own honours systems) can still receive it, though presently it is almost exclusively British with foreign nationals often given honourary ones. So a name change is long overdue frankly.

It is the British Government that selects who receives an OBE and not the monarch. The OBE is awarded on behalf of the state and is not a personal gift of the King or Queen of the day. There other honours like the Garter, or Order of Merit that are solely in the monarch's gift.

Changing the name from Order of the British Empire to Order of British Excellence would have to be done by the government.

Like many woke people, Cumming is over simplifying the complex legacy of the British Empire.

But the "Empire" part of Britain ended in the 1960s - decades before he accepted the OBE in the first place.

It was a tainted and meaningless bauble when he took it, and it's no different after he returned it years later.

The little weirdo is either an attention-whore, an illiterate with no knowledge of his own country's history, or both. Is he on smack?

These honours are not tainted or meaningless or just baubles, r106. For ordinary people who receive them, they are a recognition of the good, meaningful work that they do in their communities.

And for performers these awards are just more instant gratification for their egos. ^^^^^

[quote] an illiterate with no knowledge of his own country's history, or both

You must have missed this sob-fest

He has always looked smug , with his default smirk, but as he gets older the smugness had developed its own gravitational field.

If you could see him through my eyes.

I like him. I liked his books too. Good for him.

R84, please tell us more. Thanks.

In Australia, people are honoured with OBEs, MBEs so changing the BE to British Excellence won't really work for here.

Good point, r113, but there must be some title that could cover both Britain and the Commonwealth.

The UK also doesn't seem to have honours for non-Brits and non Commonwealth people. We should create some of those too.

[quote] The UK also doesn't seem to have honours for non-Brits

Why should it?

Lots of countries do, r115, so why shouldn't we too? It can be a different order. Currently, foreign nationals only get "honorary" awards.

He was quite cute in his younger days (though not in a hot-cute kinda way; he wasn’t my type). He looks like a mole now, quite Wind in the Willowsish. A cute mole, though. I like him.

so I guess he can kiss his knighthood or damehood goodbye?

Keep the title and do something helpful for the people you're concerned about. You may not make headlines, but....

Bet he wouldn't have given a knighthood back.

[quote] Rejecting a prize doesn't turn you into Mother Theresa.

Oh, dear.

[quote]Alan Cumming returns his OBE.

Maybe he just got tired of dusting the damn thing.

r103 Edinburgh is a magnate for English people. The University has a lot of English students. Telling that England voted in a racist like Boris Johnson ( remember watermelon smiles?) in droves. England also had flourishing support for the likes of Nigel Farage and his overt racism till the Tories moved in and took over his pitch. Scotland hasn’t voted in a Tory majority since the early 1950s which should tell you a lot.

I read his Instagram post about this and I thought he came off pretty measured in his reasoning.

You really think he wrote it himself?