Are you an Anti-natalist?

yes

Yes

Yeah. I'm one of those. I actually love kids though, I just think the world is in a weird place right now and I rather see quality of life be addressed over quantity. Imagine living 100 years, but they could slow physical aging down, so 100 was more like 50. Imagine half the people, where labor was valued higher and pollution was cut in half. I'm very envious of the population numbers from 100 years ago.

I grew up with a bigger sized family, as did others I know, and it's not always good for the kids. You get limited attention and the older kids are forced to care for the younger ones. Kids I knew from small families, of 1 or 2, seemed to be more confident, had more support, and mentally more fit if they came from a decent home. The parents were able to give them the right amount of attention.

The people who really need to stop having kids never pay attention to that shit.

Bump for the purity of rejection of conception and birth.

For the most part, yes. But the opposite phenomenon -- when a nation has a negative birth-rate and the population is elderly-heavy -- presents with its own problems as well. See Japan, Italy.

No, what a stupid movement.

R3 There will be children who will change things in the future.

I remember watching “They Shoot Horses, Don’t They”, which was released in 1969 and was about the 1930s and I remember Jane Fonda telling the pregnant woman “why bring a child into this horrible world”.

People have been saying this forever.

It’s just negative nonsense to me.

We don’t have enough children as it is. We need more. This is the reason why so many Western countries keep importing immigrants.

I recently became acquainted with that term. If people don’t want children they shouldn’t have them. Certain countries cannot support an ever expanding population. I think that the main problem is that low I.Q. dysfunctional people are reproducing like rabbits. The rest of us ending up having to fund their basic living expenses, special education & assorted services, substance abuse treatment, mental health services, the justice system etc.

^ “..end up.” It’s late.

I say let's have mandatory sterilization for low IQ people. Smart and attractive people can reproduce.

A higher standard of living automatically increases the IQ of children. People have estimated that the average IQ of industrial workers in England in Victorian times was in the upper 70s to the low 80s, not 100 as it is now. Why? Desperate poverty, lack of economic security, poor food, inadequate sleep, lack of education, lack of resources. The people from third world countries are just as capable of having intelligent children as their counterparts in developed nations, if given good conditions and good educations. Marilyn vos Savant was asked this question once and her response was that people shouldn't attempt to breed for higher intelligence - that there are so many genetic components involved that it would never work. Instead, give good conditions for mental development and people will end up more intelligent. It's that simple.

I think that people should aim for one child/per couple until the human population is reduced to a level that is sustainable on our planet. As it is now, the population is expected to peak at about 9-10 billion in the next 25 years and then rapidly decline. But will it get down to the 1 billion or so that the planet could reasonably sustain? I'm not sure. And religions will fight this decline tooth and nail. (As will the real estate industry and all industries that rely upon constant population increase for profits). I live in a city of 500,000. It would be rather weird to think of it as a city of 50,000, and 9 out of 10 houses empty, but that's what it would/could/should be all over the planet.

I read that during the great medieval plague of 1348-1350, over half the population of Europe died. But this created greatly increased wealth and great opportunities for those who survived. Workers could and did demand higher wages and in many cases simply moved into vacant houses that they could never have built on their own.

David Attenborough: A Life on Our Planet

Attenborough shows us the science behind the various environmental catastrophes we are facing and their consequences. If things dont change immediately by the year 2080 the planet will be uninhabitable for most humans. Its grossly irresponsible to bring a child into this world at this time. At the least, at our current global population, our standards of living will have to seriously decline.

Gawd no. It’s either have more kids or import more immigrants.

[quote] I say let's have mandatory sterilization for low IQ people. Smart and attractive people can reproduce.

So have you been sterilized yet?

R15 they were being ironic

R14 Right on!

Thats what the Nazis did in the mid 30s before advancing to their T4 program to euthanize genetically inferior people,

"At the beginning of the twentieth century, the sterilisation of people carrying what were considered to be hereditary defects and in some cases those exhibiting what was thought to be hereditary "antisocial" behaviour, was a respectable field of medicine. Canada, Denmark, Switzerland and the US had passed laws enabling coerced sterilisation. Studies conducted in the 1920s ranked Germany as a country that was unusually reluctant to introduce sterilisation legislation.[19] In his book Mein Kampf (1924), Hitler wrote that one day racial hygiene "will appear as a deed greater than the most victorious wars of our present bourgeois era".[20][21]

In July 1933, the "Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring" prescribed compulsory sterilisation for people with conditions thought to be hereditary, such as schizophrenia, epilepsy, Huntington's chorea and "imbecility". Sterilisation was also legalised for chronic alcoholism and other forms of social deviance. The law was administered by the Interior Ministry under Wilhelm Frick through special Hereditary Health Courts (Erbgesundheitsgerichte), which examined the inmates of nursing homes, asylums, prisons, aged-care homes and special schools, to select those to be sterilised.[22] It is estimated that 360,000 people were sterilised under this law between 1933 and 1939.[23] "

I'm pro Natalist. I love having children.

Of course. I think having children should involve more than getting pregnant, and that pregnancy should involve more a more genuinely existential level of thought than planning the theme of a gender-reveal party.

From my experience, it's mostly younger parents and bored middle-aged parents who whine about the despoliation of the earth, the plastic islands of soda straws swallowing up beautiful turtles, the hole in the ozone layer, the impact of animal-based diets, heated discussions of how thoroughly to rinse and sort one's recylcables, etc., etc. Besides leading a reasonable conscionable life, the family tree ends with me: not reproducing is my too rare gift to the world. Don't ask me to cry your same crocidle tears for the choked turtles when you're popping out children thinking that's your gift to the world.

Yes. Untrained children are the number one problem in the world.

No one was ever harmed by not being born.

It’s not like we’re suffering from a people shortage on this planet

Absolutely. The fewer humans, the better the world for everything else.

Yep. I am. Not every person is born to be a parent.

As a matter of fact, here in the United States, MOST people aren’t parental material.

It’s sad but true.

I’ve observed SOOO many shitty parents, here in the United States.

Interestingly enough, as a younger person, and even as a child, I traveled with my father to poorer countries than the United States, & even really poor people elsewhere, seem to be MUCH better parents than most Americans. And let’s not get into parenting in wealthier countries, because most of them blow Americans away regarding parenting.

Some Americans are amazing parents. My hardcore crush, is a single dad. From all that I’ve observed, he’s an AMAZING, American dad. Single dad, too. Just a wonderful father, so not every American tends to be a shitty parent.

No, I wouldn’t say I am, OP. Though some are nicer than others. For instance, I don’t like outies as much as innies. But, if you get one with a nice treasure trail, that’s beautiful regardless.

Yes.

Yes. Scream this louder for the people in the third world.

No.

Nope r8. They are importing them to keep wages down. For 40 years now. They are neither wanted nor needed.

Its crazy to see this post, as ive been researching Why do people have children. The top 10 reasons have nothing to do with the child but all to do with selfish people. As someone said above, no one was ever harmed by not being born. Life is hard. Many people are trapped. If ur trapped in a horrible place, who decides to bring in a human who may suffer too?. Adopt a child who is already here.. imagine changing the lives of those Romanian orphanage babies...I only see selfish reasons for bringing kids into this world. Name one thats a positive for the children, instead of not being born....just ONE.

Most people who have kids didn't want kids, they wanted unprotected orgasms.

R32 are you saying that children are an STD?

When you create a life, you create a death. No baby, no cry; no cradle, no grave.

Yes, there are too many people on earth.

My views on this differ per region/country.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCKING HATE THESE RUGRATS

India really needs to figure some stuff out. They are set to eclipse China.

People have kids when they're young, dumb, and healthy. They don't have kids when they're older and more experienced, because by that time they realize how dangerous life is.

Amen, r34.

every cradle is a grave. why bother?

R31 Adopt Romanian babies? While heartwarming, apparently you are unaware of what a nightmare that was for a lot of parents.

R12 I was actually speaking about the US.

The more educated a woman is, the less children she tends to have. It would be absolutely an accomplishment for people the world over to have access to things like education, healthcare, adequate food, resources and safety. Greed, grift, and corruption seem to get in the way.

Fewer!

Have more kids! The rich need more slaves.

We should have limits on how many though. You should have to prove that you can afford to raise them. Mandatory birth control at puberty.

[quote]I’ve observed SOOO many shitty parents, here in the United States.

Care to elaborate, r25?

R4 nailed it.

[quote]For the most part, yes. But the opposite phenomenon -- when a nation has a negative birth-rate and the population is elderly-heavy -- presents with its own problems as well. See Japan, Italy.

Yes, but we do need to have a national conversation about people to stop having children they (and the rest of us) can't afford. At least 48% of all children in America are born to mothers on Medicaid, which means, taxpayers pay a minimum of $22,000 for each child to be born. That's bullshit.

I live in the South and white women mostly plan/time their marriages for after they have their children. They have one through 2 or 3 children (medical bills paid courtesy of the taxpayers), then they'll get married. They purposely do it after the state (the TAXPAYERS) have paid all the hospital bills for the births of all their bastard children. And they all get food stamps and WIC too. At least 60% of these white welfare whores are republicans

R42 [quote] Greed, grift, and corruption seem to get in the way.

Don't forget about religion

There is a subject that infuriates MAGA idiots. The simple responsible choice to not have kids, with no abortion to arrest a person for drives them into a rage. For some reason intelligent people have figured out how not to reproduce, the maga crowd burns with murderous jealous rage.

My coworker got disowned by her alt right family because she chose not to marry or have kids.

Yes.

Funny thing how people love getting rescued animals, but won’t pay children the same courtesy. Adopt them and stop giving birth.

If you can't feed your baby, then don't have a baby

Mama say, mama sah, mama-coo-sah

I work at a court.

If you were allowed to observe child support court, after a couple of cases, if you had a lick of sense, you'd be running out of the court room like your hair was on fire, going to clinic and be getting a tubal ligation or a vasectomy on the spot.

I think any person, wealthy, poor, of any race, ethnicity who thinks it's a good idea to have children should have their head examined.

[quote] Most people who have kids didn't want kids, they wanted unprotected orgasms.

and are idiots and probably raising idiots.

Birth control, abortions, tubal ligations and vasectomies should be as easy as to get as a flu shot.

Hell, put birth control right into the public water supply.

Watching Idiocracy and The Wild & Wonderful Whites of West Virginia will turn anyone anti-natalist.

Yes. We need fewer people on this planet. Anyone with a brain knows this.

I'm not talking about making it a law like in China. Unfortunately, people will always be too arrogant and selfish and will always want little versions of themselves walking around and taking up more resources on a planet humans have already endangered.

Would any gay man be PRO-natalist?

I think the question OP poses is kind of silly. It's ot about being anti-natal. It's about being ecologically responsible, which flies in the face of adding more people to the planet.

[quote] Would any gay man be PRO-natalist?

I knew a gay man who gave birth to an ass baby once. His name was Andy Cohen! And the baby came out slathered in cocaine!

…and sideways. He didn’t scream or nuthin. He was a real trouper.

R49 Catholicism, LDS, and the Qiverfull movement.

The Catholic hierarchy encourages big families, but that message is falling on deaf ears. Most Catholic nations in the developed world are losing population rapidly. Croatia, Portugal, Hungary, Poland Italy, Cuba - all Catholic nations, all in the top 20 nations losing population. Spain is also losing population rapidly. In most of Latin America, population has just about reached its peak and will start declining in the next 10 years or sooner.

R64 I didn’t know that. Good news.

[quote]...and I remember Jane Fonda telling the pregnant woman “why bring a child into this horrible world”.

The best things in life are free, r7.

Italy is really losing young people at a rapid rate - the birthrate is very very low.

I kind of don't have any skin in this game - as a gay man, the world already has my own contribution of abstinence. I also don't feel terribly comfortable telling other people how to live their lives. Of course the world would be better off with fewer people in it, but it isn't really feasible to get people to stop reproducing. Anti-natalism is bound not to succeed; people will do what they are going to do regardless. It will come with its own consequences, eventually.

^^^Tell all of the gay men and lesbians who are procreating and not adopting. We are becoming part of the problem too R68.

Having kids was something people did for entertainment before the internet. I see no reason for having kids today.

[quote]Having kids was something people did for entertainment before the internet. I see no reason for having kids today.

YES!

Having kids is a hobby.

I'm kinda glad my parents had a kid.

More people should spend time thinking about having children and setting themselves up financially so that they will be able to comfortably afford the children. People seem to have no sense about this at all.

You are old beyond your years, oh R7

The Only people that should be having kids are people that can afford it and people that are invested in bringing up children right. Like manners, respect, and all the stuff that seems so lacking these days.

Yes. Limit it to one, at least.

[quote]Do you think people should stop having kids?

Of course not.

There's a subreddit called "Regretful Parents" — if you're on the fence about kids, the stories there will put your hair up in curlers. SO many people know immediately after the kid is born that they've made a life-altering mistake that cannot be reversed.

"Honey, our lives aren't stressful enough--let's have a baby!"

What do you tell somebody from a repressive theocracy that tells you that a woman’s main purpose is to make babies? When the church or mosque is in charge, it will be impossible to get through to folks to not have children.

Bring a child into this world so they can do what? There's nothing here.

Nothing, R81? What can you possibly mean? There's art, literature, travel, museums, rain forests and mountains, oceans...to name just a few things that are, in fact, here.

I think children should be removed from most public places, but the reasons of these nutters are up there with political vegans that kill more animals and eliminate species than they save.

so, I'll be dedicating a porn thread to them later as an anti-protest to create spank banks for when they go in to donate their baby batter while trolling the rethugs that gayness has contaminated the supply, because we all know many of them have low T and the few with goodlooking kids don't look anything like their fathers and one too many pitctures with fey poses and vpl they don't have.

That's quite a strange rant, R83.

R82 If you enjoy those things, go for it. Just don't drag someone else here and expect them to be into it. There's no guarantee offspring will share their parents' values or even be grateful they were brought into life.

Yes, R81/R85, I do enjoy all those things, as any mentally well-adjusted person would. As for dragging anyone here, I have never advocated "dragging" anyone anywhere (I couldn't even if I wanted to), and I am all for having a lot fewer people on the planet, through birth control, abortion, planned parenthood, etc.

And of course one can't guarantee that the world's children will be grateful for oceans or sunsets or fine art. But what a strangely nihilistic way you have of writing off everything that's here for all of us who did not ask to be born, but nevertheless were born, to enjoy.

One of my late father’s hobbies was to get stinking drunk and slobber his declaration of love for his family. The next day, hungover and remorseful, he hurled expletives at us…so, no, I don’t share my father’s hobbies.

R86 Enjoying what life has to offer is different than thinking life has to offer something that compels you to invite more people here so they can experience it. It's not THAT good. Not when there's so much potential harm. Spinning the 'Wheel of Destiny' for someone else is obnoxious and rude. There are millions of people on this planet in chronic pain, but not one is in chronic pleasure. There's always been a massive asymmetry in life. Always more bad than good.

R88, I don't think that life "has" to offer something, but if you're born, you're stuck here (unless you decide to kill yourself), so there's probably something you can find to enjoy. And as I already said, I have not "invited" anyone to bring people into the world--the opposite, in fact.

R89 Are we disagreeing? If you're already here: find things to get into, have fun, enjoy yourself, do good things -- just don't have kids. There's no reason to. Live may be worth living but it's certainly not worth perpetuating.

I am all for not having kids, and for others not having them, but the latter idea has never really taken hold, and there's nothing we can do about it. Not having kids ourselves isn't going to save the planet.

R91 Anti-natalists don't want to save the planet, they want to save sentient life from the harm of coming into existence.

I'm more for saving the planet, R92. The planet truly did not ask for all this human life on it.

[quote] My coworker got disowned by her alt right family because she chose not to marry or have kids.

Oh honey, that's not why...

you ever listen to an anti-natalist's deranged rants?

you know, and once you have.. the appropriate question is why haven't they off'd themselves.

They've got no desire to make way for other people's children despite the environmental impact. In fact, they'lll go out of their way to justify it. It's the same at the other end, though, they also tend to want to kill off people of a certain age and their ideal age group just happens to be the age group their in. Imagine that.