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Ryan Reynolds Says He And Blake Lively Will Always Be "Unreservedly Sorry" For Their Plantation Wedding

Ryan Reynolds opened up in detail for the first time about how much he and his wife Blake Lively deeply regret their decision to get married at Boone Hall, a former plantation in South Carolina. It was 2012 then, and they had seen the venue on Pinterest. Last May, Pinterest banned plantation-style wedding content, meaning photos of Lively and Reynolds' fête itself are no longer on the photo-sharing platform. That made headlines.

Now, especially in light of the Black Lives Matter movement, Reynolds tells Fast Company that he and Lively are dedicated to making up for that decision by being better. The shame will stay with them, but they are motivated to continually do the work now to be anti-racist.

The plantation wedding, “it’s something we’ll always be deeply and unreservedly sorry for,” he said. “It’s impossible to reconcile. What we saw at the time was a wedding venue on Pinterest. What we saw after was a place built upon devastating tragedy. Years ago we got married again at home—but shame works in weird ways. A giant fucking mistake like that can either cause you to shut down or it can reframe things and move you into action. It doesn’t mean you won’t fuck up again. But repatterning and challenging lifelong social conditioning is a job that doesn’t end.”

In June, Lively and Reynolds shared on their Instagrams how they plan to raise their three daughters James, Inez, and Betty differently than they were raised. "We’re committed to raising our kids so they never grow up feeding this insane pattern and so they’ll do their best to never inflict pain on another being consciously or unconsciously," Lively and Reynolds wrote.

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by Anonymousreply 214January 25, 2023 9:53 AM

People were sufficiently politically correct and informed of history in 2012, which was not the dark ages.

They knew the optics and didn't give a shit. Neither has a higher education, of course. But come on.

by Anonymousreply 1January 22, 2023 4:20 PM

Oddly enough, the photos depict black people getting married there. Seems like much ado about nothing.

by Anonymousreply 2January 22, 2023 4:22 PM

Its an ado for people who are virtue signaling, including corporations such as Pinterest. Otherwise, yeah.

by Anonymousreply 3January 22, 2023 4:23 PM

He's Canadian, we had little or nothing to do with the relatively recent slavery issue in the US (compared to the rest of the world). I guess he can "pretend" apologize?

by Anonymousreply 4January 22, 2023 4:24 PM

Lots of plantations are used as wedding venues now. What R2 said. They're being ridiculously PC for the sake of PR.

by Anonymousreply 5January 22, 2023 4:25 PM

R5 Exactly. This entire country was built using slaves and the money that slaves generated. Accept it because you sure can't change it. Move on.

by Anonymousreply 6January 22, 2023 4:29 PM

Unless they actual slaves working the event, I wouldn't be too concerned.

by Anonymousreply 7January 22, 2023 4:30 PM

A pretty house, in a pretty setting, that serves as wedding venue is not a problem. Liberal white people who keep apologizing for bullshit nonsense, instead of addressing real problems is the problem.

by Anonymousreply 8January 22, 2023 4:30 PM

"we had little or nothing to do with the relatively recent slavery issue in the US"

"Recent" slavery "issue"? Mary R4, get off it.

by Anonymousreply 9January 22, 2023 4:32 PM

[R6] "This entire country was built using slaves and the money that slaves generated. Accept it because you sure can't change it."

This is absolute woke bullshit. Some of it was, sure. But very little. The Industrial Revolution exploded post slavery and that is what made the USA and UK enormously wealthy. There were no slaves working in industrialization save wage slaves.

by Anonymousreply 10January 22, 2023 4:33 PM

Cannock! duh!

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by Anonymousreply 11January 22, 2023 4:36 PM

What R8 said!

by Anonymousreply 12January 22, 2023 4:50 PM

Shut the fuck up, Ryan, and put your Deadpool mask back on. I think this story belongs in the "Actors Who Need to Be Taken Down a Peg"thread.

by Anonymousreply 13January 22, 2023 4:56 PM

Was it a plantation themed wedding?

by Anonymousreply 14January 22, 2023 4:59 PM

Good for them. Until recently Plantation tours wouldn't even mention slavery.

A Plantation tour guide wrote an article about how ignorant some people are about what slavery even is. She fielded questions and comments like: "How much were the slaves paid? Weren't most slave masters kind and trying to help slaves? Weren't slaves better off than poor farmers? Didn't most slaves love their masters and were very loyal? Why did slaves try to run away? Field work sounds harsh but weren't house slaves well treated? Also the white people (the few black people never asked questions) would get visibly agitated at the mere mention of slavery.

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by Anonymousreply 15January 22, 2023 5:00 PM

For you R10

“In the pre-Civil War United States, a stronger case can be made that slavery played a critical role in economic development. One crop, slave-grown cotton, provided over half of all US export earnings. By 1840, the South grew 60 percent of the world's cotton and provided some 70 percent of the cotton consumed by the British textile industry. Thus slavery paid for a substantial share of the capital, iron, and manufactured goods that laid the basis for American economic growth. In addition, precisely because the South specialized in cotton production, the North developed a variety of businesses that provided services for the slave South, including textile factories, a meat processing industry, insurance companies, shippers, and cotton brokers.”

by Anonymousreply 16January 22, 2023 5:04 PM

[quote] Field work sounds harsh but weren't house slaves well treated?

We's house workers

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by Anonymousreply 17January 22, 2023 5:08 PM

FFS yes slavery existed. Yes, slavery still exists. Not pretty but at least it was abolished here. Can't say that for other countries.

Canada is guilty of atrocities against indigenous tribes, like us. Spain, Belgium, GB are guilty too as well as a host of other countries.

by Anonymousreply 18January 22, 2023 5:10 PM

[R16] Pre Civil War and pre Industrialization. If anything slavery delayed and retarded economic growth in the South. The North had a massive advantage in manufactured goods and weaponry. The North had another huge advantage in oil and coal which was a growing source of revenue and again was untouched by slavery. The USA would have been as rich without slavery but perhaps a bit slower. And would have avoided the disaster that was The Civil War.

by Anonymousreply 19January 22, 2023 5:12 PM

[quote]Field work sounds harsh but weren't house slaves well treated?

This is the one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I'm sure those house slaves loved being forced into sex work later in the night.

by Anonymousreply 20January 22, 2023 5:12 PM

^ the foundation for the Industrial Revolution that took place post slavery was set up during slavery. America would have never been in a position to capitalize on the Industrial Revolution in the way that it did if the capital from slavery wasn’t there in the first place. Even though the North didn’t have slaves, major industries in the North were established and grew and lined their coffers from the slave made products, industries.

It is what it is. And I think it would stop being such a thorn in America’s side if they would just fucking admit this and move on. To pretend slavery had little to do with the great nation that America was to become, like r10 does, is completely out of line with the truth. America became what it is BECAUSE of slavery. It wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 21January 22, 2023 5:14 PM

R20 Exactly. Many people think 'Gone With the Wind' was a documentary.

by Anonymousreply 22January 22, 2023 5:16 PM

[quote]This is the one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I'm sure those house slaves loved being forced into sex work later in the night.

And I am sure the wet nurses loved being kept pregnant so they could nurse young white babies while their children starved. Female slaves were often bred so their pregnancies lined up with their owners. Their subsequent babies were either done away with, sold or starved for milk.

by Anonymousreply 23January 22, 2023 5:19 PM

LOL [r21] USA did not need slavery to industrialize. If anything it slowed it. Germany had no connection to slavery at all and somehow managed to be a world leading industrialized nation. Many things made the USA wealthy. Cotton was but one.

by Anonymousreply 24January 22, 2023 5:39 PM

I miss a world where nobody cared about this stupid shit.

by Anonymousreply 25January 22, 2023 6:08 PM

I don’t r25. Yes, the virtue signaling is past it’s shelf-life, but I don’t want a world where we can’t face our history. That is for weak people.

by Anonymousreply 26January 22, 2023 6:33 PM

Are you R10 / R24 or actually two misinformed individuals?

"Of the many myths told about American slavery, one of the biggest is that it was an archaic practice that only enriched a small number of men. he argument has often been used to diminish the scale of slavery, reducing it to a crime committed by a few Southern planters, one that did not touch the rest of the United States. Slavery, the argument goes, was an inefficient system, and the labor of the enslaved was considered less productive than that of a free worker being paid a wage. The use of enslaved labor has been presented as premodern, a practice that had no ties to the capitalism that allowed America to become — and remain — a leading global economy."

I don't know why people can't accept this. I am not saying feel guilty about it. But from a very objective point of view look at the facts and realize the truth. It's akin to saying huge advancements were made in medicine due to the Nazis experiments on the Jews. The sad tragic fact is that that is true. America became a leading world power due to over 200 years of free labor.

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by Anonymousreply 27January 22, 2023 6:48 PM

It's easier to mock statements like his than to make one yourself. I find Reynolds and Lively exceptionally boring, but his apology was decent by celebrity standards because he didn't shy away from validating the criticism they received.

by Anonymousreply 28January 22, 2023 7:06 PM

I always wonder if people who have plantation weddings are either sociopaths or slept through the slavery unit in American History. I personally would be as likely to get married on a plantation as I would be to get married in a concentration camp. In terms of Ryan and Blake, it's good that they understand why it's wrong now, at least.

by Anonymousreply 29January 22, 2023 7:07 PM

R27 You are totally right. Slavery was hugely profitable, and there was a reason so many investors, northern and southern (and British, for that matter) wanted it to expand, and kept trying to pattern "free labor" contracts on slavery long after the civil war. Southern slave owners weren't opposed to industrialization, per se. It was labor-saving and time-saving as much as it was in the north. Where there were solutions for industrialization and technological advancement without increasing the risk of slave rebellion, they embraced it and instituted it.

by Anonymousreply 30January 22, 2023 7:09 PM

R29 many people just see it as a beautiful house. Bad things happened in a lot of historic homes.

by Anonymousreply 31January 22, 2023 7:12 PM

And 👻 spooks abound!

by Anonymousreply 32January 22, 2023 7:35 PM

It was well known in 2012 that antebellum plantations were specifically designed and operated for the purpose of human immiseration and exploitation. If you chose to incorporate that reality into the celebration of your marriage, don’t APOLOGIZE. Just admit that for you, partying among the ghosts of enslaved Africans gave it that extra touch of olde worlde elegance.

by Anonymousreply 33January 22, 2023 7:52 PM

I suspect this for Black Lively's M.O. :

When she tried her lifestyle brand "Preserve.us", she wanted to be a guru and create an identity (similar to goop) of the beautiful serene lady of the contemporary "plantation" which is "lifestyle". Commanding a staff of creatives (slaves) and worker bees, but in an enlightened way. Nevertheless, mistress over all. That's what all these female lifestyle gurus aspire to. Martha did it to the max with her estates of impeccable gardens with immense staff. Noblesse oblige - but with a modern twist, and everything is MERCHED to the max - (that's the product of the plantation - lifestyle merch.) The merch gets you "purchase" of the mistress of the contemporary plantation lifestyle, impeccable, glamorous, by all means SERENE lifestyle.

Blake having her wedding to the Hollywood dreamboat, at the REAL plantation, fits right into her fetish. (Failed fetish.) She's not fooling anyone, the dumb bitch.

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by Anonymousreply 34January 22, 2023 8:30 PM

She probably gets ethnic types to dress her for her princess cosplay. Lacing her into those corset gowns.

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by Anonymousreply 35January 22, 2023 8:35 PM

Didn’t valet get caught in some problematic crap at one point? She’s always struck me as an Ivanka Trump type. Prob loves socializing with liberals but will easily become a conservative witch later on.

by Anonymousreply 36January 22, 2023 8:35 PM
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by Anonymousreply 37January 22, 2023 8:37 PM

Hollywood dreamboat is stretching it.

by Anonymousreply 38January 22, 2023 8:41 PM

Well everything is ersatz with these two. Ryan is the best she could do.

by Anonymousreply 39January 22, 2023 8:50 PM

The US became a superpower because of slavery. People underestimate it but cotton was extremely profitable globally and not just cotton but indigo, rice, coffee and tobacco. And many African slaves were tradesmen who could work with iron and metals, create pottery, do carpentry, work as fishermen and carriage drivers. The Industrial Revolution sped things up but The US established its global and trading power through the goods they produced under slave labor. Add products of the industrialism to the mix and it created a superpower.

by Anonymousreply 40January 22, 2023 8:53 PM

Only a “woke” ass would apologize. Those places provide jobs where they’re most needed. Relax, Ryan and you too, Lively!

by Anonymousreply 41January 22, 2023 8:57 PM

The struggle between the South and the North is still a thing. The South wanted a fascist, medieval agrarian environment where the ultra rich control everything and there's a hierarchal caste-like system to keep everyone at the bottom even banning interracial relationships. The North wanted a more cosmopolitan, intellectual and technologically advanced environment where secular, free speech and democratic ideals flourish. The two parties reflect these ideologies but in a very essentialist - almost to the point of parody - way .

by Anonymousreply 42January 22, 2023 8:59 PM

It was a venue. The history doesn't change the architecture or the grounds or the setting.

Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 43January 22, 2023 9:01 PM

[quote]The North wanted a more cosmopolitan, intellectual and technologically advanced environment where secular, free speech and democratic ideals flourish.

First time I've heard the legend of the Old North.

by Anonymousreply 44January 22, 2023 9:02 PM

This was old news. Why are they bringing this up again?

by Anonymousreply 45January 22, 2023 9:04 PM

Canadian creeper. Undertalented wife. Next…

by Anonymousreply 46January 22, 2023 9:07 PM

They didn’t mention slavery during the plantation tour in “Tammy and the Bachelor” though Debbie R got to play the cornpone.

by Anonymousreply 47January 22, 2023 9:18 PM

I like Blake Lively, but my favorite Blake Lively story is how she was fucking Ben Affleck, texted him nudes, and his wife Jennifer Garner somehow got them and released them. What a mess that was.

by Anonymousreply 48January 22, 2023 9:39 PM

Too bad we didn't get Ben's hard dick pics.

by Anonymousreply 49January 22, 2023 9:42 PM

She seems very WASPy to me. I thought she was the only one on Gossip Girl well-cast.

by Anonymousreply 50January 22, 2023 10:15 PM

Having a “plantation wedding” has an element of cosplaying the old south. Not a strong element (I’m sure the packages offered, the location, the practicalities of the venue and many other elements come into play), but it’s there. Even if the bride isn’t wearing a hoop skirt and carrying a parasol.

So, yeah, a plantation wedding it really weird when you think about, but it’s believable that a couple might not have really thought about it a decade ago. Especially a 25 year-old from LA and a Canadian. However, they SHOULD have thought about it, so I don’t think an apology is inappropriate and I like the way they highlight their embarrassment. They are embarrassed that they didn’t realize the message they were sending (Hey, wasn’t this a cool, romantic period? We are going to re-create the feeling for our wedding!) and committed to not being so stupid in the future. The wording is little over the top and I don’t understand why they bring their kids into it (almost makes it seem like they are blaming their parents), but I think the message is reasonable.

by Anonymousreply 51January 22, 2023 10:15 PM

That place will now be booked up for the next 5 years for events. Best PR they never paid for.

by Anonymousreply 52January 23, 2023 3:31 AM

Should people stop getting married in Catholic churches, because of paedophilia? Awful shit happens everywhere. Having their wedding at a plantation doesn't mean they support slavery. The world has gone mad.

by Anonymousreply 53January 23, 2023 3:46 AM

[quote]The struggle between the South and the North is still a thing.

Ya think? The South still wants to fly the Confederate flag. Only in the upside down, hypocritical world of the United States would flying the symbol of the most treason act against the nation to date make you MORE American.

by Anonymousreply 54January 23, 2023 7:17 AM

[quote][quote]It was a venue. The history doesn't change the architecture or the grounds or the setting. Jesus

There is reason people wouldn't get married at Auschwitz even though the venue has proven it has room to host thousands. Of course the history of a location taints the place itself. At best you are showing that you are indifferent to the horrors that happened there. And on the basest level it's just bad chi.

by Anonymousreply 55January 23, 2023 7:18 AM

He’s full of shit.

Blake Lively was using an antebellum theme for her failed fashion / lifestyle line she was trying to hustle.

To pretend that they stumbled upon it on Pinterest and were oblivious to everything is boldface lies.

Blake had a thing for the antebellum south period and that’s why she chose the venue.

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by Anonymousreply 56January 23, 2023 7:38 AM

The Gawker criticized Blake Lively for her “love letter” to the antebellum era and she went after them.

So anyone believing Ryan’s lies can stop.

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by Anonymousreply 57January 23, 2023 7:43 AM

Hmmm.

I wasn’t particularly “woke” in the late 90s when my sorority-girl cousin had a full-on plantation wedding in the Nashville area. It was complete with a bridal luncheon with white ladies at the country club served exclusively by uniformed Black ladies.

It was unbelievably uncomfortable.

When I got back to LA, my Latina fiend mocked me for my discomfort, saying “oh, you don’t know how to have fun.” I remember being surprised that she just didn’t get it.

Point being: lots of people don’t get it, and never will. Doesn’t make it ok.

by Anonymousreply 58January 23, 2023 7:54 AM

Good lesson for them. It was 2012 - not 1980. We were all aware of these things years ago. Certainly at that time. They must have been very isolated and living in some other reality if they didn't quickly consider how they receive abnormal amounts of scrutiny because they are famous and was it really a good idea. That's what smart people would have done. And nobody in the support system even thought to have the discussion either!

Anyway - they've made a serious apology (for actors) and made quite a few reparations according to that story. Stupid thing to do.

by Anonymousreply 59January 23, 2023 8:07 AM

I don’t know anything about this couple or their wedding. But many historic buildings were built by enslaved people, the most recognizable being The White House.

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by Anonymousreply 60January 23, 2023 8:11 AM

It was a former plantation where slaves were imprisoned, abused, starved and lived miserable lives while being worked to death. Not the White House. There's a difference R60.

by Anonymousreply 61January 23, 2023 8:14 AM

A lot of white people are anti-slavery but we still really, really love Gone With the Wind. Sorry. But that’s what it’s all about.

by Anonymousreply 62January 23, 2023 8:45 AM

It’s so funny cause white people are such big believers in ghosts and haunted houses and shit but have no worries getting married and going on vacation to old plantations.

by Anonymousreply 63January 23, 2023 8:50 AM

Technically, the White House was built by general contractor John McShain Inc., in the early 1950s. It's a facsimile of the one "the slaves built", which was collapsing and very dangerous.

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by Anonymousreply 64January 23, 2023 9:14 AM

R63 "white people"? I'm white and don't believe that shit.

by Anonymousreply 65January 23, 2023 9:36 AM

[quote]There is reason people wouldn't get married at Auschwitz

Well, it's also ugly as shit unless your idea of charm is gray concrete.

by Anonymousreply 66January 23, 2023 9:41 AM

It's bizarre how white Americans downplay slavery and racism and do shit like this and act stupid when people call them out on it. They know this is wrong and they aren't sorry. Just admit you don't give a damn about Black people and stop pretending like you're so innocent. They do the same with Native Americans, dress up as Indian chiefs and claim parts of their culture yet don't do shit to help actual Natives who suffer from poverty.

by Anonymousreply 67January 23, 2023 10:25 AM

[quote]Liberal white people who keep apologizing for bullshit nonsense, instead of addressing real problems is the problem.

Nothing they said is a problem. It causes no problems whatsoever when a celebrity says "we're going to do better," even if they don't mean it when they say it. It's just celebrity PR talk and it's about a very minor issue, as you said yourself.

The only reason you and others on DL think it's a problem is because you don't like it. That's it. It's not a problem, it has not caused problems, it will not cause problems, you just don't like it, and you're so self-absorbed and needy that you exaggerate small things like this into larger things so you can pretend like your minor personal irritation is actually a huge cultural problem.

It's not.

by Anonymousreply 68January 23, 2023 10:29 AM

If they really want to apologize, maybe "Ryan Reynolds Says He And Blake Lively Will Retire From Acting Forever" is a better statement.

by Anonymousreply 69January 23, 2023 10:59 AM

What precisely do you want, R67? Yes, humans are selfish. They are tribal. So it has been, so it always will be. People care about them and theirs. Most people (95% ish?) do not care about people of other stripes, they mainly profess to as an exercise in virtue signaling. I've only seen it in real life when a person is directly impacted, e.g., their kid marries a POC, etc., where perspective and concern change.

The calvary is not coming. No one really cares because they're too self- absorbed or they have too on their plate to give it much thought. You are on your own. The only way to get what you are seeking is to band together and fight for it.

by Anonymousreply 70January 23, 2023 11:00 AM

Ryan can return to that planation and take big black cock, on video, to absolve his sins.

Oh wait, I have fetishized the Black Mandingo Male for my white pleasure. I'm guilty too. I will join Ryan to pay for my sins as well.

by Anonymousreply 71January 23, 2023 11:16 AM

R70 stop projecting your shortcomings on the rest of us. You’re racist, hon.

by Anonymousreply 72January 23, 2023 11:22 AM

Hit a nerve, R72? That you immediately opted for an ad hominum attack speaks volumes.

by Anonymousreply 73January 23, 2023 11:45 AM

[quote]Nothing they said is a problem. It causes no problems whatsoever when a celebrity says "we're going to do better,"

I don't agree. I think apologizing for your plantation wedding is easy, too easy. None of these people want to focus on the hard work or the real problem that is systemic racism in the country. So instead, they focus on plantations and statues and old movies, instead of getting their hands dirty with the real problem. A lot of bad things happened in a lot of pretty houses in this country. A lot of bad things happened in many revered buildings in this country.

Some ancient plantation isn't responsible for voter suppression or bad cops or the ways in which the country put up roadblocks for many black Americans to gain generational wealth and just live the American dream.

Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are going to make an empty apology about a plantation wedding and then go back to their lily white lives, send their kids to lily white schools, and pass down their wealth to their lily white children.

by Anonymousreply 74January 23, 2023 12:49 PM

Whenever I see him interviewed or on a chat show my gaydar goes off big time. I wonder.

by Anonymousreply 75January 23, 2023 1:32 PM

[quote] None of these people want to focus on the hard work or the real problem that is systemic racism in the country.

Unfortunately the country is fucked from this. Something that started in such a dark place can never really function or last that long - especially a country that touted itself as the Land of the Free. It will implode because of the weight of never dealing with it properly. It is a cancer that the country will die from in time.

And it's too useful a tool of separation to just let go of or try to remotely fix. And it would take GENERATIONS of focused national energy for American to untangle itself effectively from its hurtful past. And ain't nobody got time (or attention spans) for that.

And the God's honest sad truth is that most people, White, Black or otherwise have no idea where to even begin or what to do? Where do you even fucking start? And no, "chunk of change" is not going to change anything - although I would like to get me some if they're handing it out. But it will just be used in the future to say "shut the fuck up with your bitching about a problem we already paid you for." A problem that was never really addressed fully by the United States.

There are no more Roman Empires these days. Nations don't rule for 800 years. America will get a good 250 years of superpowerdom under it's belt and then it's a wrap. The 20th century, as wrought with strife as it was for the United States, was its century.

by Anonymousreply 76January 23, 2023 1:36 PM

Personally I don't think former working plantations should be sites of leisure today. They shouldn't be B&B hotels, or special event venues, or conference centers. But who am I to say. Capitalism.

They definitely should be preserved and these incomes help for that.

Jefferson's Monticello plantation, run by a foundation as a museum, of course, had a change of heart awhile back and decided to tell the whole story. And then did archeology to discover the remains of as much as they could find of the plantation system in place at Monticello. They even discovered Sally's room - a bricked room in the cellar of the house itself. It's pretty fascinating and important.

I think you would tour a place like Monticello and afterwards not so much be inclined to have your bourgeois wedding celebration there.

by Anonymousreply 77January 23, 2023 1:41 PM

Such beautiful homes. Love touring them during Garden Week or the Holidays.

by Anonymousreply 78January 23, 2023 2:05 PM

When you think of it, it is really kind of sad that a nation that has become the richest nation in the history of the world and that began with what on paper is amazing foundation of self-governance started in such a dark place that it has no means of extricating itself from. Yes there have been attempts to make things right here and there, but it has never faced its history of slavery and racism head on. We've danced around the issue so much that we are all tired of this same song. This country is akin to a father who beat his kid his entire life then buys him a car on his 16th birthday. The personality is formed and the damage is done. And again, where do you even begin to take on such a seminal issue?

One way for sure NOT to do it is to keep downplaying the impact of slavery on America and the influence slaves had in building this nation. Start teaching that in schools instead of - "oh, it wasn't so bad," "or slaves didn't do much when it comes to nation building," as certain posters on this thread continue to do.

by Anonymousreply 79January 23, 2023 2:13 PM

r2 it is but protesters of the day went after every big name and got their organization boosted - which cashed out less than a year later but no one remembers that part. They also went after all the social justice singers that preformed there...

r1 no one thought about the optics because it's a historical site that does educate the public and attached to several charitable organizations in the region and beyond, most viewed it like a museum with gardens and entertainment space. It's rarely people's first choice but an available wedding venue that is close enough for their multiple friends and family to fly out.

but as the word is celebrity people will interject their own politics unto it over said hate or the need to platform other shit. It's nt a plantation the feigned outrage sense, which everyone knows.. the only people truly raging are those that believe all of history should be burned, including the text books, so we can forget, move on, and rewrite history with pc fiction instead.

by Anonymousreply 80January 23, 2023 2:22 PM

it's like the bds movement against Israel, even the most virulent, anti-Israel activist embraces Israeli technology.

or maybe more, say the countless people and govts that want to Auschwitz and similar sites, claiming it's theme park for nazis... for the govts, they don't want to be attached to that history and politicians come out every few years to denounce it despite it bringing hefty tourism funds. Still, there's many organizations that want to see it destroyed, despite jews large and by want to keep it, if only so few believe in it but others allegedly speaking on their behalf cry out against it for various reasons.

but the compromise for tis short of shit is like the central park protesters that instead of destruction got a safe space plot for their reparations.

by Anonymousreply 81January 23, 2023 2:31 PM

It's always interesting when the subject of slavery in the US comes up that the 200 years of slavery in the northern states is never mentioned. Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island were the three New England states with the largest slave populations, although most other states in the northeast had legal slavery as well. Since the south had much more of a farm economy slaves there were mainly used as farm labor, while slaves in the northeast were more often used as house or business labor. Doctors, lawyers, ministers & merchants in the northeast had slaves working their homes, offices, and stores.

by Anonymousreply 82January 23, 2023 2:31 PM

It's interesting reading Boone Hall's website. It notes that 80% of West African slaves came through Charleston. People on both sides of my family were slaves in South Carolina, so my ancestors most assuredly came through there. Although from what I know my family was more in the north western part of South Carolina and eventually settled in South Western North Carolina, Tryon area. But we were spread out over three states overall - Alabama, South Carolina and Tennessee. I wonder if any of my family ever lived, worked in Boone Hall.

My great great grands were slaves. So it's crazy to think my grandma's grandma was a slave and that my dad met her as a child.

by Anonymousreply 83January 23, 2023 2:50 PM

I will always be unreservedly bored by people who miss no opportunity to reiterate that they will always be unreservedly apologetic for their wedding on a plantation in the 21st Century.

by Anonymousreply 84January 23, 2023 3:02 PM

Side note: they'll be renewing their vows at Auschwitz.

by Anonymousreply 85January 23, 2023 3:41 PM

What's up next from the creator of "Preserve.us" = ??

by Anonymousreply 86January 23, 2023 4:14 PM

[quote]None of these people want to focus on the hard work or the real problem that is systemic racism in the country.

Sorry but blacks are responsible for a lot of their own problems in their communities. That's just reality.

by Anonymousreply 87January 23, 2023 4:32 PM

R87 What communities? The neighborhoods in inner cities they were pushed into that have white landlords and non-black businesses and vacant lots owned by white people rotting away? Those communities?

by Anonymousreply 88January 23, 2023 4:57 PM

I'm not R87 but many of the problems is a lack of respect for education which is touted by many as being "white" along with speaking intelligible English.

by Anonymousreply 89January 23, 2023 5:01 PM

A culture that celebrates violence and anti-social behavior, a lack of fathers, indifferent parenting from the mothers/grandmothers who raise the kids, looking down on anything educational as "acting white" etc. It's a total mess of dysfunction and depravity.

by Anonymousreply 90January 23, 2023 5:07 PM

R89 This is where your racist white superiority sprouts up.

I’m always flabbergasted at the idea of white Americans claim they speak proper English and love education when the last President of the United States they voted for had neither.

The white upper / upper middle class is a very small pool of white people in America.

It’s like most men are at the top but there’s a huge amount of men who are at the bottom. Yes men are a majority of CEO’s and business owners and politicians but it is a SMALL POOL and the majority the homeless, drug addicts, homicide victims, suicide victims, prison, etc are men.

And that’s the same thing with white people.

This idea you have in your head that white people are majority Stepford people is false false false. For every ghetto, there’s 100 trailer parks. White people make up the majority of welfare, section 8, drug addicts, etc.

White people have such a high delusion view of themselves.

Most of you are white trash.

by Anonymousreply 91January 23, 2023 5:09 PM

R86, hopefully spare.us

by Anonymousreply 92January 23, 2023 5:12 PM

r91 false.

by Anonymousreply 93January 23, 2023 5:15 PM

So does this mean our wedding at Auschwitz was not a good idea? Oh dear.

by Anonymousreply 94January 23, 2023 5:22 PM

R82 True. The North doesn’t get away its racist history though. Because there were no Jim Crow laws in the North, they used alternative ways to segregate, which is why schools in the North are so segregated now.

I remember on Twitter I was talking to a teacher from California who moved to Massachusetts a few years ago and she said she was horrified at the segregation.

I also know a teacher in Florida who worked at a rough black school but then moved to a rough white school and she said nothing is worse than white meth parents. She never faults the kids, she faults the parents and she said meth addicted MAGA parents were absolutely brutal.

by Anonymousreply 95January 23, 2023 5:24 PM

R93 100% True.

The majority of America is white trash or blue collar. And fat.

There’s a museum in China where they have statues of people from countries around the world and for the US, they had a big fat white couple with sandals and visors and fanny packs. That’s what people think of white Americans.

by Anonymousreply 96January 23, 2023 5:35 PM

[quote]Sorry but blacks are responsible for a lot of their own problems in their communities. That's just reality.

[quote]A culture that celebrates violence and anti-social behavior, a lack of fathers, indifferent parenting from the mothers/grandmothers who raise the kids, looking down on anything educational as "acting white" etc. It's a total mess of dysfunction and depravity.

These are just two examples of where the United States Educational system has intentionally failed us.

We are all just left to believe blacks left plantations to go stand in welfare lines. But the truth is post slavery a large portion of the black community pulled themselves up by their boot straps, started businesses, started their own schools, were in government - elected representatives and senators. More than 1,500 African American officeholders served during the Reconstruction era (1865–1877) and in the years after Reconstruction before white supremacy, disenfranchisement, and the Democratic Party fully reasserted control in Southern states. There were thriving black communities with businesses and schools that were attacked, the citizens massacred or driven out. And when it wasn't done on purpose through violence, it was done on purpose through threats of violence and the law like the Willa and Charles Bruce Family who bought land in what is now Manhattan Beach, CA to start their own resort. California seized the property from them 100 years ago and just recently is paying the family 20 million dollars. There is a lot of generational wealth that was stolen from black families who were forced out of property they rightfully owned and then ghettoized in certain sections of major cities. These communities were 100% black owned, run, operated with no help or handouts - there were none to be had anyway.

But these are things you will never learn in school, for a reason. Black people were terrorized for decades after the end of slavery. 2,000 black people were recored as having been lynched during Reconstruction alone. From 1865 to 1950 the number is about 6,500 reported victims of racial terror killings - reported... That's over one person a week for nearly 100 years. That doesn't include all of the discrimination on top of that like not being able to claim GI Bill benefits that enabled your white contemporaries to purchase homes for their families, voter rights discrimination and red-lining in all major cities that disenfranchised the black vote and left them powerless to affect needed changes in their own communities. ALL of these things were done with this specific purpose in mind. There is a reason they call it systemic racism.

This isn't a "woe is me," story. It is more of a "getting fucking real" story. And it's the Slyfox's at R93, the Johnny-Come-Very-Latelies of America who think they have all the answers and think that the way they understand things is the way it has always been. But he has been born and bred on an educational system that made him believe, made all of us believe that what he believes is the truth. It isn't.

R93, r89 before you speak up again, I urge you to educate yourself on the actual history of the country you live in. It's your history as much as it is mine. You can start below be reading about these various massacres and what happened to the existing thriving black communities in each city. You might get a clearer understanding of how we ended up where are now - not just black people, but the country as a whole. Can you even imagine what our country would look like today if all people were just left in peace to pursue their American Dream?

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by Anonymousreply 97January 23, 2023 5:52 PM

The fact is that American black communities are broken, mostly due to their own behavior. You can rail about "white trash" all you want but you do not see the extreme levels of violence and anarchy in their communities.

by Anonymousreply 98January 23, 2023 6:00 PM

r97 all of the things you speak of were generations ago. White people are not responsible for the extreme levels of violence and anti-social behavior in black communities. Sorry, they aren't. That's all on blacks. Other black people have spoken of this. Not everything is the fault of white people, no matter how fashionable it is to claim that. Nothing is going to change until black people look at themselves and change from within their own communities.

by Anonymousreply 99January 23, 2023 6:02 PM

The GI Bill rip-off is particularly outrageous and I think there should be reparations to those veterans' families.

by Anonymousreply 100January 23, 2023 6:20 PM

R99

first slaves in the New World / America to the end of Slavery = 246 years

End of slavery to let's just say 1950 = 85 years

Total = 331 years

compared to 1950 to 2023 = 73 years of the white man no longer wanting to be blamed for any of it.

You have at least 200 more years before you can spout your specific kind of bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 101January 23, 2023 6:30 PM

Sorry r101 not bullshit, but facts. You can approach the subject academically all you want, but it's not the real world.

by Anonymousreply 102January 23, 2023 6:35 PM

R101, if they were actual facts, I would have no problem accepting it. The fact is black communities aren't their worst enemies. The worst enemies are the things that put them in those communities to wither on the vine in the first place.

As far as the education system in the United States, I will say this. My grandmother grew up in the south in a segregated school. Actually the same two room school building that Nina Simone attended. Side note - my great uncle who worked for the NSA in the 70s ended up buying the land the school was on and converted into a family compound where we spent all of our summer reunions with a pool I was in fives hours a day as a kid. Anyway, those kids were educated in their history as well as American history overall. They didn't grow up with a sense of feeling less than, unwelcomed, "lucky to be there" that I grew up with. They learned all about the contributions of black people to the country beyond slavery. All the stuff I didn't learn. Some might say this is an argument for segregation.

This is not an argument for segregated schools. It is an argument for all schools teaching all students their actual American history. It's an opportunity to teach all kids that one race didn't hold a monopoly on ingenuity, scholarship, entrepreneurship and business acumen. It's an opportunity for black kids to learn they are more than a handout, that they have a birth right to be where they are and have a great history when it comes to building this nation. Every student would benefit from this. Black kids wouldn't grow up feeling inferior, unwelcomed and eschewing education as a whole. Feeling that our only real path to success is through entertainment or sports - that we actually have a legacy of success in all areas that has been erased from the history books. And white kids wouldn't grow up with an inflated sense of superiority and become the SylFoxes of the world.

Like why the fuck am I just learning in my 40s from a movie about Katherine Johnson, a black woman, who worked at NASA and was one of the brains behind sending the United States to the moon in the 1969? Can you imagine if this was taught is school - and not that she is just a black woman but an American.

by Anonymousreply 103January 23, 2023 7:14 PM

^ sorry r102 I meant...

by Anonymousreply 104January 23, 2023 7:15 PM

Also white people from Europe, Australia and Canada know white Americans are racist and ignorant. Black Americans are actually very popular and respected worldwide and seen as big contributors to what made American culture so distinct. Black Americans who have traveled abroad talked about how much better they are treated and how white Americans are one of the most hated groups in the world.

by Anonymousreply 105January 23, 2023 8:45 PM

In fact white Americans are seen as low as North Koreans and Saudis due to always having their nose in global conflicts and profiting from wars. The Christian Right in America is easily compared to Al Qaeda and ISIS. The world doesn't hate Black Americans regardless of if they stereotype them because they see them as victims of the bullshit of white Americans who are among the most disliked group.

Europeans put their nationality first. White Americans put their political whiteness first. Even European racism is very different and more ethnic and religious conflict rather than racial one.

by Anonymousreply 106January 23, 2023 8:50 PM

They both seem dumb (Reynolds and Lively).

That said, I do think people can have epiphanies, causing them to regret past behaviors.

As mentioned, their wedding wasn't that long ago.

by Anonymousreply 107January 23, 2023 8:53 PM

R107 Fair enough. They are like a real life Ken and Barbie. Plastic and vacuous as fuck. I bet they share the same surgeon

by Anonymousreply 108January 23, 2023 9:00 PM

I will always be unreservedly sorry for listing my condo as having a master bedroom and master ensuite. I'm a monster! 😭

by Anonymousreply 109January 23, 2023 9:20 PM

Well R109 I am black and think that is so absurd. A master refers to a master of a house, not a slave owner. Although I can see it being seen as sexist since the Master is a man.

by Anonymousreply 110January 23, 2023 10:17 PM

Good luck with all that, R103. The point of a public school education is to make compliant consumers/worker drones/soldiers/flag wavers. Anyone who wants their children to have a comprehensive education on actual American history will have to take it upon themselves.

by Anonymousreply 111January 23, 2023 10:44 PM

I think many white Southerners are starting to see they have more in common with Black people due to both being ruled over by WASP gentry and living in the South for three centuries. I mean, both Southern whites and African-Americans have English/Welsh/Scottish last names, both are Protestant especially Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal and non-denominational Evangelicals, both call their mothers "mama", the cooking is very similar with fried chicken, cornbread, watermelon and barbecue, both black and Southern whites played a hand in developing rock and roll, jazz, gospel and blues, which was a mix of West African rhythms, chants and percussion with British Isles ballad and rhyming music and country and bluegrass owe its existence to the banjo which was a West African instrument, etc. There's too much culturally similar. White Northerners looked down on white Southerners. Black Northerners looked down on Black Southerners. Both parties weren't welcoming when Southerners moved up North for work.

by Anonymousreply 112January 23, 2023 10:54 PM

R97 Well said but don’t waste this on a racist like R83. White people like him have been saying the same shit about black people since slavery and they’re just racist POS.

by Anonymousreply 113January 23, 2023 11:12 PM

R83 is a racist descendent of slaves? R113 schoolmarms (like yourself) must proofread their posts.

by Anonymousreply 114January 23, 2023 11:14 PM

R91 not all white people voted for Trump.

by Anonymousreply 115January 23, 2023 11:19 PM

The anti-black racism in America makes no sense to most people outside of it because white and Black Americans are culturally identical and there's no reason for white people to hate Black people. Even the anti-Hispanic prejudice is stupid to most because Hispanics aren't a race and they are culturally Western and Christian. The idea of hating someone for their skin color is very irrational especially when they share the same culture and values. People hating others for their class, their ethnic background, religion, etc is way more universal due to conflicts of values, personalities and beliefs.

by Anonymousreply 116January 23, 2023 11:26 PM

R115 Enough did to put him into office.

by Anonymousreply 117January 23, 2023 11:38 PM

Maybe, maybe not R117.

by Anonymousreply 118January 23, 2023 11:44 PM

Well as long as they are UNRESERVEDLY sorry.

by Anonymousreply 119January 24, 2023 1:14 AM

Slavery was a horror obviously and probably the worst time in US history. But it's interesting that you never hear any black people blaming slavery on the source, Africa. Did they forget, or not know, that Africa sold them into slavery?

by Anonymousreply 120January 24, 2023 5:46 PM

R120 Plenty of us do. Many of us do not identify with Africa and it doesn't help African immigrants and countries look down on us. Despite us being the most successful Black group in the world. We consider ourselves Americans first unlike white Americans who want to be Irish, Italian or French first. And will vote based on racism and a "white first" identity despite it being against their interests as working class.

by Anonymousreply 121January 24, 2023 8:29 PM

And wealthy Africans sold Africans just like wealthy white people sold white people into slavery. Arabs sold both black and white people into slavery. But slavery in the Americas was chattel based and created a hierarchy with race and class that the white elite perpetuated. This was extremely unique and not like anything else in the world. Slavery before was usually prisoners of war, lower class individuals of all colors and conquered tribes. The British declared anyone with African blood was born into slavery and made it a permanent position to the point free blacks were captured and enslaved.

by Anonymousreply 122January 24, 2023 8:34 PM

Reese Witherspoon and Ryan Philippe had a plantation wedding as well.

Mind you, Reese hadn’t published an article on her blog about the beauty of antebellum femininity, so.

by Anonymousreply 123January 24, 2023 8:42 PM

R123 I think people expected this from Reese. She's a snobby Southern WASP and brags about it. Ryan was a gentleman who only married this Southern belle to protect her reputation and make daddy proud. At least Reese and Ryan have Southern roots.

Blake is a California Barbie girl from an acting family. Ryan is a smug schmuck from Canada. What the fuck do they have to do with plantations?

by Anonymousreply 124January 24, 2023 8:53 PM

[quote]It's bizarre how white Americans downplay slavery and racism and do shit like this and act stupid when people call them out on it.

What did they do? They held a wedding reception at a venue. Should it be torn down? What do you want, seriously? Spell it out. Because your snarking and whining is pointless and dull. Tell us what to do to make this better.

by Anonymousreply 125January 24, 2023 9:30 PM

No one from the 20th century would pass the 21st century smell test. Neither will any of us pass the 22nd century smell test if our species makes it that far. What virtually all English speaking colonizers did to indigenous populations is a moral abomination. But asking a person from the 19th or 20th century to behave with the sensibility of a 21st person is absurd and unjust. And erasing all history that may give offence is to repair one injustice by committing another. I can see dismantling statues of the men of the Confederacy. I can't see dismantling former plantations that today serve a purpose as a venue. You cannot argue terrible things happened there because terrible things happened across the country - the whole country. Is there anywhere terrible things didn't happen? This absurdity will topple under its own weight and then the real, hard work of figuring out the past can go ahead without the theater and posturing that does more harm than good.

by Anonymousreply 126January 24, 2023 9:34 PM

R125 Reparations and giving land owed to descendants of slavery. I don't blame white Americans for slavery but I blame them for being ignorant and perpetuating a racist system. I find them they most un-American group of people ever who think being white and claiming Irish or German is more important than just being American and looking out for everyone and seeing all colors as brethren. Why else vote for Republicans who are screwing over poor white people? Americans enslaved fellow Americans and should repay them for forced labor. It's not a racial thing but Americans of European extraction are obsessed with being at the top.

Also most of the world considers white Americans absolute trash and sympathize with Black people. There would be no American culture without African American contributions.

by Anonymousreply 127January 24, 2023 10:03 PM

People get married at churches and town halls or parks. Not places where Africans were enslaved and tormented. They can get married there if they want but they should be prepared for criticism and why romanticize a period that was awful for black people and most white people too. People on this thread are being stupid on purpose and it's not funny.

by Anonymousreply 128January 24, 2023 10:12 PM

The irony of the situation is that by now one of the BLM conmen has probably used the white guilt tax deductible donations to buy venue

by Anonymousreply 129January 24, 2023 10:29 PM

R129 No a fan of BLM grifters. But after the Confederacy fell, black people should have been given all the land from the plantation owners who enslaved them. So nice idea, dude 😎

by Anonymousreply 130January 24, 2023 10:31 PM

[quote]Also most of the world considers white Americans absolute trash

Um, no. At least not the kind of Americans who travel globally.

by Anonymousreply 131January 24, 2023 10:40 PM

[quote]At least Reese and Ryan have Southern roots.

Ryan is from Delaware. That's not the South.

by Anonymousreply 132January 24, 2023 10:42 PM

[quote] because white and Black Americans are culturally identical

You know nothing about the US. Black American culture is very different from the various white American cultures.

by Anonymousreply 133January 24, 2023 10:43 PM

[quote]Also white people from Europe, Australia and Canada know white Americans are racist and ignorant. Black Americans are actually very popular and respected worldwide and seen as big contributors to what made American culture so distinct. Black Americans who have traveled abroad talked about how much better they are treated and how white Americans are one of the most hated groups in the world.

Where do we even start with this ridiculous statement?

by Anonymousreply 134January 24, 2023 10:45 PM

R133 No it's not. Have you met white people from the South? Also black and white New Yorkers are very similar. Americans of all colors have way more in common than not. Jazz and blues is the cornerstone of American music. Black Americans outside of Southern Louisiana retained very little African culture compared to Caribbeans and South Americans. Black American culture is heavily influenced by British Isles culture.

by Anonymousreply 135January 24, 2023 10:58 PM

[quote] I can't see dismantling former plantations that today serve a purpose as a venue. You cannot argue terrible things happened there because terrible things happened across the country

Oh please R126 shove it up your ass. It would be like having a wedding ceremony at auschwitz. How romantic.

by Anonymousreply 136January 24, 2023 11:01 PM

R134 While white Americans enacted segregation and refused to allow black people to play in venues or star in certain roles. Black actors and artists were living in and touring Europe and Asia. Jazz was very popular and even in Japan, black jazz artists enjoyed popularity. There was a whole movement in France called Negrophilia where white French fetishized African diaspora and their artwork and contributions. Europeans regularly bash white Americans and consider slavery and the systemic racism black Americans face absolutely embarrassing. The gun violence and slaying unarmed black men is disgusting to them. White Americans who travel tend to be wealthy and more educated. Europeans see them a bit different than the majority of white Americans who they see as disgusting racists.

by Anonymousreply 137January 24, 2023 11:03 PM

R132 Delaware is historically the South and a slave state. It is below the Mason Dixon line. Ryan grew up Baptist. Delaware has a large black population that is definitely Southern in culture. Yes it's more Mid-Atlantic like DC and Maryland nowadays thanks to all the transplants but it used to be the South and is historically the Tidewater region which was where the Southern Gentry and Southern culture originated from

by Anonymousreply 138January 24, 2023 11:07 PM

[quote]Europeans see them a bit different than the majority of white Americans who they see as disgusting racists.

Hon, white Americans see the other half of white Americans as disgusting racists. Americans also see half of Brits as low class chavs.

BTW, most white Americans are not white trash. You just see a lot of white trash in the media because they're irresistible to cover.

Black Americans who travel overseas to Europe and Asia experience lots of problems. Magic Johnson's son EJ has talked about this, for one example.

[quote]Also black and white New Yorkers are very similar.

Are you fucking kidding? A white person on the UES or Park Slope has very little in common with a black NYer from the Bronx or Bed Stuy.

You can't be American. An American can shoot holes in everything you posted.

by Anonymousreply 139January 24, 2023 11:09 PM

This thread is amazing. I get to block all the racist trolls 😊. Thank you all for exposing yourselves!

by Anonymousreply 140January 24, 2023 11:10 PM

r138 Delaware was not part of the Confederacy

by Anonymousreply 141January 24, 2023 11:12 PM

[quote]it used to be the South and is historically the Tidewater region which was where the Southern Gentry and Southern culture originated from

Virginia, dear.

by Anonymousreply 142January 24, 2023 11:12 PM

People from Delaware are in no way culturally Southern. They're more aligned culturally with Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

by Anonymousreply 143January 24, 2023 11:14 PM

R142 It's right next to Virginia and was a slave state. Delaware is historically Southern, get over it. The US still officially considers it The South.

R143 It was Southern historically. It isn't now but it was. Just like DC was a Southern town. Why do you think it has a large black population? New Jersey and Pennsylvania do not. And also NJ and PA have heavier German and Quaker influence.

by Anonymousreply 144January 24, 2023 11:17 PM

Excuse me r144 but you have no idea what you are talking about. Again, are you even American? Modern people from Delaware, such as Ryan Phillippe, are not culturally Southern. It is not considered "the South" by any fucking American. The South begins in Virginia. The mid-Atlantic states are a separate entity, although culturally they are much more Northern than Southern.

[quote] Why do you think it has a large black population? New Jersey and Pennsylvania do not.

OMFG. NY and PA don't have a large black population? GTFO of here and shut the door behind you.

by Anonymousreply 145January 24, 2023 11:20 PM

NJ I mean.

by Anonymousreply 146January 24, 2023 11:21 PM

Americans in the Deep South (GA, AL, MI, LA) don't even consider Virginia to really be Southern. Delaware and Maryland might as well be New York to them.

by Anonymousreply 147January 24, 2023 11:23 PM

Sorry, MS not MI!

by Anonymousreply 148January 24, 2023 11:24 PM

There's a lot of non-american trolls spouting off about a lot of shit they have no clue about and it shows. New Hampshire is not "the South" and many Europeans have shocked the hell out of me with their racism and I am in the South. Worked with a lot of Scandinavians who dropped the "N" word very casually.

by Anonymousreply 149January 24, 2023 11:41 PM

I said New Hampshire but meant Delaware which is still not the South.

by Anonymousreply 150January 24, 2023 11:47 PM

r149 Spaniards are particularly awful when it comes to being racist.

by Anonymousreply 151January 24, 2023 11:48 PM

Oh yes R151. I know first hand.

by Anonymousreply 152January 24, 2023 11:50 PM

[quote] Delaware is historically Southern, get over it. The US still officially considers it The South.

Absolutely, totally, completely fucking false.

by Anonymousreply 153January 24, 2023 11:56 PM

[quote] I think people expected this from Reese. She's a snobby Southern WASP and brags about it. Ryan was a gentleman who only married this Southern belle to protect her reputation and make daddy proud. At least Reese and Ryan have Southern roots.

Isn’t that worse? They understood what they were doing.

by Anonymousreply 154January 24, 2023 11:56 PM

Chris Harrison the Bachelor host was canned for sticking up for one of the contestants who went to a Plantation style party a few years ago.

by Anonymousreply 155January 25, 2023 12:14 AM

[quote]I don't blame white Americans for slavery but I blame them for being ignorant and perpetuating a racist system.

I don't either. What I blame them for is dismissing slavery by posting things like "but my ancestors never owned slaves" or "you think the slaves had a bad, but let me tell you about how my Irish/Italian or whatever ancestors had to go through.

Then you have the types who dismiss or who just don't know about the abandoning of Reconstruction and just allowing the south to re-enslave black people via Jim Crow Laws, which brought about housing discrimination, redlining, employment discrimination, loan discrimination, segregation, which didn't allow many black Americans to build generational wealth, lead to substandard schooling, and just a general you're less than unless you're tap dancing or throwing a ball.

We are almost 60 years out of Jim Crow. I'm sure some DLers remember Jim Crow. Do you really think you're gonna fix what's broken in just 60 years?

I don't think most white people are racist, but I do think that many of them are racially illiterate and that's not their fault. It's not like they're taught true American history or in many cases you really don't have to think about race a hell of a whole lot. I just get annoyed at well meaning white liberals, who think they're on our side, but are often times just as insensitive as those who are not. Black people, not on Twitter, don't care if you had your wedding at a plantation, there are way more important things to care about.

by Anonymousreply 156January 25, 2023 1:54 AM

Rehobeth Beach has palm trees. Delaware is the first Southern State with Maryland, when you are traveling from north. And they share the Delmarva Peninsula with Virgina. Ok its not super Southern. Delaware and Maryland were Slave States, my dear, on the Mason-Dixon line

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by Anonymousreply 157January 25, 2023 2:07 AM

[quote] Delaware is the first Southern State with Maryland, when you are traveling from north.

Virginia is the first Southern state. Every American know this.

FFS Delaware and Maryland were not part of the Confederacy. Delaware and Maryland are mid-Atlantic states, no American would ever consider them Southern. Just quiter157 you know nothing about the US or Americans.

by Anonymousreply 158January 25, 2023 2:16 AM

They were not part of the Confederacy but they were Slave Holding States my dear.

by Anonymousreply 159January 25, 2023 2:31 AM

I know history. And I'm American, among other citizenships. Educated in USA (among other countries). Delaware had slaves until 1865. It is subjective, what is the South and what isn't. You're a know it all troll who presumes to speak for "every American" but in New York we could easily consider Maryland and Delaware as half in half out of the south. AND SLAVES.

SLAVES HONEY. PLANTATIONS. UNTIL 1865.

But do continue.

by Anonymousreply 160January 25, 2023 2:34 AM

r159 just stop. Any American will tell you that Maryland and Delaware are not Southern states. They are mid-Atlantic states. They are not culturally Southern at all. End.

by Anonymousreply 161January 25, 2023 2:34 AM

Sez you.

by Anonymousreply 162January 25, 2023 2:35 AM

[quote]but in New York we could easily consider Maryland and Delaware as AND SLAVES.

As a native of NY/CT I can tell you we do not consider Maryland or Delaware "half in half out of the south." Even though the Mason Dixon line went through Maryland, Maryland and Delaware are mid-Atlantic states and are not culturally Southern at all. You are just an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 163January 25, 2023 2:36 AM

. As defined by the U.S. federal government, The South includes Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia.

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by Anonymousreply 164January 25, 2023 2:38 AM

However, culturally Delaware and Maryland are not Southern.

by Anonymousreply 165January 25, 2023 2:39 AM

I know you are but what am I?

by Anonymousreply 166January 25, 2023 2:39 AM

If you are asking if Delaware is southern from a historical perspective, again, I would say no because while it was a slave-owning state, it fought on the Union side during the civil war.

Also as others have pointed out, depending on which organization is doing the reporting and tallying, you will often see Delaware classified as “Mid-Atlantic” and occasionally as “Southern.” So geographically it could technically be Southern, but most references I have come across use the “Mid-Atlantic” classification more often.

by Anonymousreply 167January 25, 2023 2:40 AM

See, the cunt is hedging because he is wrong. Maryland and Delaware are definitely arguable "Southern". But MISS CUNT speaks for all Americans so she must be correct. Miss CUNT has never heard of the Mason Dixon Line. CUNT CUNT CUNT IGNORANT CUNT

by Anonymousreply 168January 25, 2023 2:41 AM

OH honey, I though you spoke for EVERY AMERICAN and I was dead wrong when I said they are considered half in half out. HEDGE AWAY you stupid twat.

by Anonymousreply 169January 25, 2023 2:42 AM

r168 enjoy your meltdown. Delaware and Maryland are Mid Atlantic states, culturally much more Northern than Southern.

by Anonymousreply 170January 25, 2023 2:43 AM

Is Maryland A Southern State? Not According To Most Marylanders

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJZ) -- Is Maryland more northern or southern? The answer to that question depends on whom you ask, but most Marylanders say it's northern.

That's according to the results of a new Goucher College poll, which shows 65% of residents consider Maryland a northern state, more than double the 27% who view it as a southern state.

While the responses seem fairly cut-and-dried, the state's history is a little bit more complicated.

Maryland actually sits below the Mason-Dixon Line, which divided free states in the north from their slave-owning counterparts in the south during the Civil War era.

For decades, the state's song was James Ryder Randall's "Maryland, My Maryland," which called Abraham Lincoln a "tyrant." In May, Gov. Larry Hogan signed into law a bill scrapping the tune.

But ultimately, the consensus among residents from all walks of life -- regardless of age, gender, race, and political stance -- is that Maryland is a northern state.

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by Anonymousreply 171January 25, 2023 2:44 AM

Yeah you're the desperate one trying to hedge away from the position you took. YOU SAID - ALL AMERICANS consider them not not Southern.

And I am the well informed reasonable one who said it arguable and depends.

ANd for proof, you post the article above that supports MY VIEW. Not yours.

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJZ) -- Is Maryland more northern or southern? The answer to that question depends on whom you ask, but most Marylanders say it's northern.

Most Marylanders does not = ALL AMERICANS. Desperate Dumbass.

DOn't be so hyperbolic when you debate people. Did you skip debate at Bridgeport Central Shit Hole High? Busy in vocational school, no doubt.

by Anonymousreply 172January 25, 2023 2:50 AM

Americans consider Maryland and Delaware Mid-Atlantic states, for the most part. I have never known any American, including those from Delaware or Maryland, who would think otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 173January 25, 2023 2:52 AM

Maryland shares almost no traits with what we think of as “the South” :

by Anonymousreply 174January 25, 2023 2:53 AM

Hedging. 😵‍💫🤪 Maybe if you block your yourself you won't have to read your previous and first arguments and won't be so embarrassed. "for the most part" hahahahah does not equal ALL AMERICANS

by Anonymousreply 175January 25, 2023 2:54 AM

[quote]And I am the well informed reasonable one who said it arguable and depends.

You said they were Southern states you fucking nut.

by Anonymousreply 176January 25, 2023 2:54 AM

Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, and DC make up the Mid-Atlantic States. While each of those states have a complicated history - Virginia most of all, in the present, except for certain areas, they are as far from their confederate roots as can be.

by Anonymousreply 177January 25, 2023 2:56 AM

R15 I think the generation of us who lived/ grew up in the 1970s have an advantage because of Roots. There were only three networks and EVERYONE watched Roots. You could not come out of that viewing experience thinking idiotic pleasantries about slavery. If I hadn’t seen Roots, slavery would only have been something we covered in a textbook. Cut to 45 years later and it’s still a chapter in a textbook…plus a lot of “alternative facts” noise on the Internet.

Part 1: 28.8 million households Part 2: 31.4 million households Part 3: 31.9 million households Part 4: 31.2 million households Part 5: 32.5 million households Part 6: 32.7 million households Part 7: 30.1 million households Part 8: 36.4 million households

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by Anonymousreply 178January 25, 2023 2:57 AM

I said one could argue. And You said I'm an idiot and ALL AMERICANS consider them not southern.

Abraham Lincoln had to fight very hard for Maryland not to be "Southern" and secede, dumbass.

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by Anonymousreply 179January 25, 2023 2:57 AM

r179 you said:

[quote]Delaware is historically the South and a slave state. I

[quote]Delaware is historically Southern,

Basically saying it's the South

by Anonymousreply 180January 25, 2023 3:03 AM

Sorry r179 you are just wrong. Nobody thinks of "the South" when they think of Maryland or Delaware.

by Anonymousreply 181January 25, 2023 3:04 AM

The troll who keeps insisting Delaware is a southern stare is not American. I'd suggest just ignoring it.

by Anonymousreply 182January 25, 2023 3:13 AM

True r182.

by Anonymousreply 183January 25, 2023 3:14 AM

R180 you have me (the WRONG IDIOT) confused. I am R179 but not the author of the post you have quoted R138 from way up thread. Sorry for you.

by Anonymousreply 184January 25, 2023 3:21 AM

Which only proves there are several who say one could argue Delaware as southern in this very thread. But NOOOOOOOOOOOO. We must shut up. Stop. Because we are idiots. AND ALL AMERICANS AGREE. Twat.

by Anonymousreply 185January 25, 2023 3:22 AM

Too bad for the troll.

by Anonymousreply 186January 25, 2023 3:43 AM

[quote]AND ALL AMERICANS AGREE. Twat.

Why yes, all Americans agree that you're a twat.

by Anonymousreply 187January 25, 2023 3:45 AM

Don't feel bad Ryan Reynolds. Some of Harvard's endowment is based off slavery. Should we get rid of the greatest educational institution in the world?

No.

Love them for being respectable.

by Anonymousreply 188January 25, 2023 3:46 AM

Yes I'm the twat who pointed out that you are wrong.

by Anonymousreply 189January 25, 2023 3:47 AM

Both sides of my grandparents moved here from the Netherlands. Why should I pay for reparations when my people lived in another country?

by Anonymousreply 190January 25, 2023 3:50 AM

More than half a million slaves toiled in Dutch colonies and the Dutch shipped 600,000 total.

by Anonymousreply 191January 25, 2023 3:57 AM

You still have to pay up r190!

by Anonymousreply 192January 25, 2023 4:13 AM

Fuck that

by Anonymousreply 193January 25, 2023 4:14 AM

Slavery still exists and everyone on this thread partakes. Both slavery in the most literal sense (overseas) and in the economic sense (undocumented labor). Unless you source everything you buy, and the materials from which they're made, and build or grow everything yourself, you benefit from modern day slave labor. Undocumented laborers don't have it as bad, you say? They're free, you say? Are they really? To do what, live on the street? When you buy that steak at the grocery, do youvthink of all the undocumented labor who lost bodyvparts or their lives in meatpacking plants? When you buy that lettuce, do you think of those who died in combines and threshers? Do you think about the undocumented women who sew your fast fashion for pennies and are subject to sexual assualt and rape from management because who are they going to tell? Slavery still exists and we are all guilty.

by Anonymousreply 194January 25, 2023 4:16 AM

Isn't the Dutch American charming! Completely ignorant of Dutch history in New Amsterdam. Which included African slavery.

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by Anonymousreply 195January 25, 2023 4:18 AM

r128 how many museums raise funds by allowing events, including private parties and weddings? The same goes with many of these... would you feel differently if they were of a darker pigmentation? Would you be donating to preserve the history of such places if they no longer allowed weddings, concerts and other social engagements YOU find inappropriate?

by Anonymousreply 196January 25, 2023 4:58 AM

for all the lip service so called anti-racists give... you really don't see them do much more than change their avatar for a day or send out a hashtag.. and of course, if they created said hashtag, oh how they demand the credit for it. . .

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by Anonymousreply 197January 25, 2023 5:01 AM
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by Anonymousreply 198January 25, 2023 5:05 AM

^ black, jewish, gay and fat.. is that diverse enough for you?

by Anonymousreply 199January 25, 2023 5:06 AM

should really look up black historical reenactors and historians.,. they tend to get harassed and shamed by either idiot kids that don't know better or willfully ignorant adults that refuse to educate themselves with their feigned outrage on how these places operate... because they're too triggered for reason and want to bring segregation back while censoring history from those parts they don't like.

In fact, a few years ago (pre trump even) that was exactly the problem, with a complaint against said place for mentioning it's history with slavery, a white karen went ballistic because apparently she was unaware.

Also, if you want to talk history - historically black towns, like those in Oklahoma, which only recently were acknowledged on a national level, still exist, barely, no one gives enough of a shit to re-invest in them but now everyone and their mama brings it up and uses it for their own damn agendas but certainly don't look into preserving that..

slave graveyards -- almost everywhere you look... states are notoriously bad about not only keeping the records up to date, even in the digital age, but protecting and maintaining them. Soon the only resource we may have of them are the few that had headstones and the people that did rubbings of them.

Even more fucked up is how few communities actually give a shit about these things either... nearly every configuration of ethnic background has a story to tell across the states but most don't give a shit about what falls outside of their immediate location... like much of native american history, it ends up written in a liar's scrawl.,.. even today, where everything old is new again and people are rewriting the past with their truths, new truths, new narratives. . . marred by dirty politics. For most minority groups, it's hard to get them to give a fuck about a piece of history without celebs... historical or otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 200January 25, 2023 5:17 AM

Seriously? Fucking please, you two Hollywoke idiots. So, now does everyone who was married in a Catholic church (child molestation, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.) need to be “unreservedly sorry” Does everyone who got married in a destination wedding in the Caribbean (colonialism, racism, etc) need to be “unreservedly sorry”? Does everyone who got married in a cheesy New Jersey banquet hall (non prevailing wage, suggestion of anti-Italian stereotypes, etc) need to “unreservedly sorry”? Where the fuck does this bullshit stop?

by Anonymousreply 201January 25, 2023 5:28 AM

[quote]Where the fuck does this bullshit stop?'

So far it doesn't stop. It only gets more and more ramped up.

by Anonymousreply 202January 25, 2023 5:32 AM

Well said, R200.

The US can't even agree slavery was bad. So spare me the "wokism gone mad!" outrage.

by Anonymousreply 203January 25, 2023 5:45 AM

I’ve never been quite clear as to why Blake Lively is famous. I think she was on a TV show I didn’t watch.

by Anonymousreply 204January 25, 2023 5:57 AM

[quote]I’ve never been quite clear as to why Blake Lively is famous. I think she was on a TV show I didn’t watch.

She was on Gossip Girl, which I didn't watch but even I know she was on Gossip Girl.

by Anonymousreply 205January 25, 2023 6:08 AM

[quote]Modern people from Delaware, such as Ryan Phillippe, are not culturally Southern. It is not considered "the South" by any fucking American. The South begins in Virginia. The mid-Atlantic states are a separate entity, although culturally they are much more Northern than Southern.

What fascinates me are states like Maryland and Delaware that were slave states but had successful FREE black people living there. That must have been awkward as hell. I have this joke of a bougie Black woman planning her bridal shower:

"Filomena said she can't come, she's got Slavery that Saturday."

by Anonymousreply 206January 25, 2023 9:23 AM

I’m from Boston and I love that the first freed slave in Boston was a woman who sued her way out of it. It’s such a Boston thing to do

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by Anonymousreply 207January 25, 2023 9:32 AM

One side of my family bought themselves out of slavery. I forget exactly how they did it. But having free relatives in the North always helps.

by Anonymousreply 208January 25, 2023 9:34 AM

R207 This story would make a brilliant movie.

She overheard them writing a document about emancipating from England because they were being enslaved and she said “shit, me too!”

by Anonymousreply 209January 25, 2023 9:35 AM

R208 My grandmothers’ side comes from a runaway who joined the Union.

I discovered the story of the last slave in my family a few years ago. He was written about in a book about the Fort Pillow Massacre.

It was liberating because we’re taught white people freed slaves and white people fought to free slaves and to come from a runaway who became a soldier was a double fuck off. White people didn’t free my family or fight for me.

by Anonymousreply 210January 25, 2023 9:39 AM

And my grandfathers side settled into Indian reservations. I don’t have any Native American ancestry in my DNA and neither did my Aunt.

But my grandfather was born and raised on an Indian reservation in Tennessee and I believe his family had been there for a few generations.

We’ve been told that they were not slaves but I’m sure they were slaves at one point until they were invited or married into that reservation.

Btw Indian reservations were fucking nightmares. The stories I heard were brutal.

by Anonymousreply 211January 25, 2023 9:42 AM

R207 Reading about Elizabeth Freeman, you can see how fucking brutal white women were to slaves. They act like they had no part in it but there’s a story of Elizabeth saving a female slave being beaten by a heated shovel by her female slave owner. Holy shit.

by Anonymousreply 212January 25, 2023 9:47 AM

And that’s the big thing about Southern Belles that Blake Lively leaves out when romanticizing the antebellum. They were brutal, vicious, and cruel. They were just as violent and sadistic to the slaves as the men were.

by Anonymousreply 213January 25, 2023 9:49 AM

I am directly descended from Ramesses II but my DNA says I also have Sea People heritage, so it is likely the Sea People slaves were used as sperm donors and surrogates. I told my bff Paris about it.

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by Anonymousreply 214January 25, 2023 9:53 AM
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