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AA/ NA members compared to people who become abstinent through other, more rewarding means.

Steppers are now more defensive and reactionary now that there are people who are abstinent without program . I love the alcohol free hashtags on Instagram . If you compare the posts where people give up booze or drugs and reclaim their lives , to the arduous and joyless followers of the cult , it’s quite striking. steppers never give any real encouragement. Never anything positive about the benefits of being abstinent or reducing their intake . It’s all “ it’s going to be so hard and you never are cured ” it’s horrible . When you read posts of people with multiple years sober and they act like it’s still got them by the balls .

by Anonymousreply 19January 23, 2023 1:52 AM

The 3 steppers at my work were discussing their weekend plans yesterday. It all revolves around meetings, sponsors and step work . BORING!! These are people with years of sobriety. It’s an obsession and addiction.

by Anonymousreply 1January 21, 2023 6:02 PM

Rarely have we seen a person fail. Think about that. It was written 80 years for a very small populace of low bottom drunks. There's my statistical proof that this thing works? Oh yeah, it works if you work it. Whatever that means. But just keep coming back...for more misery.

by Anonymousreply 2January 21, 2023 6:04 PM

So I noticed something and was hoping for anyone’s input on this ….. from NA the narrative is that one is powerless over their addiction (drugs) yet I have heard many claim (almost all of them really) that they had a DOC (drug of choice) do you think this is an oxymoron or contradictory perspective since it gives the addict the impression that ( there is or was a choice in their drug usage?) what are your thoughts?

by Anonymousreply 3January 21, 2023 6:05 PM

“Alcoholism” is caused by drinking alcohol, not “character defects”, “moral shortcomings”, “instincts run wild”, “selfishness, self centeredness” or “self will run riot”. Even if one does have “underlying issues”, 12 step cult religion is the worst way to deal with them. I prefer to deal with my “issues” with trained professionals, not cheap religious crackpots. I will admit that a “spiritual perspective” can help, but aa doesn’t have any. aa is the opposite of spiritual . AA is less than worthless

by Anonymousreply 4January 21, 2023 6:07 PM


by Anonymousreply 5January 21, 2023 6:36 PM

How sad that you reply to yourself so often.

by Anonymousreply 6January 21, 2023 6:38 PM

Yeh why get sober and then have no life...lol...love my sober life without belonging to a cult.

by Anonymousreply 7January 21, 2023 6:41 PM

R6, I’m just sharing my experience, strength and hope you dullard

by Anonymousreply 8January 21, 2023 6:42 PM

[quote]...people who are abstinent without program...

Yeah, those people have been abstinent for about a week to ten days. I think people who feel as if alcohol use was destroying their lives are different from those who may feel modifying their alcohol intake might offer benefits. Why do you care?

It's puzzling that after thirty-five years sober in AA, the unflattering descriptions I read here about sober people almost never matches the thousands of people I've actually known in sobriety.

by Anonymousreply 9January 21, 2023 7:58 PM

The 13th step was the only step I was good at.

by Anonymousreply 10January 21, 2023 8:04 PM

It's not like "step work" and meetings take 48 hours. In cities, you see people meeting with sponsors or doing stepwork all the time. Look at it this way--its an hour or two that they're not drinking or doing drugs. Meetings are the same.

They are designed to take up time and provide social connection. It is very, very hard for most adults to make new friends. These meetings (and the phone calls in between) force people to get to know each other.

It's great when addicts find anything that helps them stay sober. Programs are in place for when they can't do it on their own. By definition, an addict is someone who can't stop using recreational substances on their own because it temporarily makes them feel better even though it is making them feel bad and ruining their relationships, friendships, and career.

It's also totally normal for people to do lots of meetings early on and find what works for them in the long term. Usually some other activity they enjoy will take over.

by Anonymousreply 11January 21, 2023 8:37 PM

R11, trauma is the root of addiction. And describing yourself as addict / alcoholic after giving upon your vice is not healthy . Doing that becomes your identity. It’s sad to see someone who has been abstinent for quite some time, navigate their existence through the lens of addict / alcoholic. They invoke their “ disease”in every aspect of their lives .

by Anonymousreply 12January 21, 2023 10:56 PM

I’m in North Ft Myers, FL right now, visiting my aunt and uncle, dodging the snow back home. Had one of the best weeks of my life, with people I love. Alcohol free. Amazing how you can stay alcohol free without checking your soul into the hands of sick people

by Anonymousreply 13January 21, 2023 11:01 PM

Except no one is doing that r12.

by Anonymousreply 14January 22, 2023 1:11 AM

R14, you’re a liar !!

by Anonymousreply 15January 22, 2023 1:35 AM


by Anonymousreply 16January 22, 2023 5:37 PM

the 12 step life is a time suck...no time for anything else.

by Anonymousreply 17January 23, 2023 1:15 AM

r12 is a great example why conversation about addiction is important. Imagine so flippantly just writing "trauma is the root of addiction". In movies, it tends to be.

Maybe R12 is right because all humans experience trauma.

12 step programs do say that while some people can point to factors that make some more likely to experience addiction (trauma, abuse, genetic predisposition), it really isn't important because the path out of addiction is the same for all addicts. And it comes down to recognizing their status as an addict who can't control their relationship with a substance, building a social community around them, and giving them tools to stay on top of their emotional, spiritual, and physical well being as they move forward. The social community part is important because it can help prevent relapse. Some addicts are willing to call other people they trust and say "i'm thinking of using again". And the discussion doesn't have to be about that. A discussion about literally anything else puts the addict's focus on something else and stops the repetitive thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 18January 23, 2023 1:30 AM

My ex-boyfriend was an alcoholic. When I discussed alcoholism and what it does to others with my therapist, she told me, "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic."

Roughly five months after that discussion, he was murdered by his brother. I am still dealing with the fallout from what happened in June. He was in AA after getting a DUI some years ago and had a breathalyzer in his car. He had several AA chips, which I saw on his desk. He was proud of that.

His friend (whom I met after his death) told me that he had obviously picked up drinking again and had gotten a new car. He picked it right back up after the breathalyzer was apparently no longer there. He was gone not long after that.

Drugs and alcohol are just the worst. I'm no saint; I've touched opiates and pot, but I'm not good at drinking. Neither is my mother; I guess I inherited that. And I have a non-addictive personality. I can drop off substances whenever I want.

I am honestly okay with abstaining from alcohol for the most part. I have actually dated two other guys besides him who had a drinking problem. I cannot stand it any longer. Two in a row began their alcoholism because they blamed themselves for a death in their immediate family, in this case, both their mothers. It is vile, and I only hope people who got into this rut will find their way out. We, as a civilization, deserve better.

by Anonymousreply 19January 23, 2023 1:52 AM
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