I want to die!
My Electric Bill is $360 this month!
|by Anonymous||reply 94||January 22, 2023 8:52 PM|
Move to a warmer state.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||January 19, 2023 5:36 AM|
I just bought a house last month and it’s completely empty. We’re not moving in until next month. There is nothing on but the fridge and the wireless router and the hot water heater. Why the fuck is 1 month’s electric $108?
|by Anonymous||reply 2||January 19, 2023 5:36 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 3||January 19, 2023 5:36 AM|
That's cute, R3 ...but I am under no illusion that this outrageous bill is not super high due to the fact we had 7 and 9 degree nights when it normally never goes under 20 degrees during the winter.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||January 19, 2023 5:53 AM|
Where do you live, OP? What kind of dwelling are you in If it's an apartment, that's crazy. If you're in an 8 bedroom McMansion that's something else.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||January 19, 2023 5:59 AM|
[quote] Move to a warmer state.
Then you need air conditioning. Guess what that runs on.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||January 19, 2023 6:11 AM|
Damn, 82kWh daily average is high!
|by Anonymous||reply 7||January 19, 2023 6:45 AM|
Check your water heater - frequent cause of outrageous electric bills.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||January 19, 2023 6:52 AM|
R2, call the electric company and then shut everything off for as long as you can and then ask the electric company how much power has been used in that amount of time. There shouldn't have be anything. Remember to shut off the water heater (you can just shut it off at the breaker box)
|by Anonymous||reply 9||January 19, 2023 8:14 AM|
We had the same recent frigid blast with temps below freezing for 48 hours and my bill was $85.
My HVAC is a heat pump with natural gas backup. I made the smart decision to go dual fuel when it was installed 12 years ago.
If people understand hybrid cars (gasoline + battery backup), then they should understand the concept of dual fuel HVAC, also known as “hybrid heat.”
|by Anonymous||reply 10||January 19, 2023 9:23 AM|
I'm glad someone started this thread; I've had the same thing - I keep my heat so low even Bob Cratchit might complain and yet my heat bills $160+ for a relatively small space. But I'm going to look into the hot water heater angle, though I've heard that turning down the temp is not so easy.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||January 19, 2023 12:21 PM|
r11 -- Look into installing an electric water heater timer. I did it when I had an all electric home. Big money saver. Amazon it!
|by Anonymous||reply 12||January 19, 2023 12:26 PM|
Both my heating bill and electric bill were the highest they've ever been last month. The bills weren't high compared to most because I really skimp on what I use ... I can't imagine the kinds of bills other people are getting.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||January 19, 2023 12:27 PM|
I used to have issues with the electric bill until I took those damn Phillips hue lights out. Those will up the bill by at least $100 per month depending on the number installed
|by Anonymous||reply 14||January 19, 2023 12:46 PM|
R11, there's a little knob on the bottom of the water heater. Just turn it to the left. There are markings.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||January 19, 2023 1:10 PM|
My electric and gas bill was $700 the last two months.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||January 19, 2023 1:15 PM|
Forgot to mention that my dual fuel gas bill covering the cold snap was $58.
So $143 total. Midsouth single family 1500SF.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||January 19, 2023 2:59 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 18||January 19, 2023 7:08 PM|
Lay the blame exactly where it belongs: at the feet of Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||January 19, 2023 7:11 PM|
Do any DLers heat their homes with anthracite?
|by Anonymous||reply 20||January 19, 2023 11:54 PM|
Turn the hot water heater off until 20 minutes before you need hot water.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||January 20, 2023 12:09 AM|
[quote]Move to a warmer state
You know what an electric bill in Arizona is like in the summer R1? $360 is chump change.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||January 20, 2023 12:11 AM|
$360 sounds steep, do you live in a large house?
|by Anonymous||reply 23||January 20, 2023 12:13 AM|
My electric/heat bill was $114 -- and I live in FL. About 750 sq. ft.
But my air will be about $120 in the summer as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||January 20, 2023 12:15 AM|
Mine was $370 and I live in a small new home with good windows and insulation. I keep my heat set on 68 degrees.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||January 20, 2023 12:19 AM|
Hopefully OP prepaid the funeral.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||January 20, 2023 12:21 AM|
[quote]I just bought a house last month and it’s completely empty. We’re not moving in until next month. There is nothing on but the fridge and the wireless router and the hot water heater. Why the fuck is 1 month’s electric $108?
How much of that is account fees and taxes and how much is actual electricity usage?
I'm in a cold climate, heating over 3,000 sq. ft., and our electric bill was around $45. But the gas bill should be $350 or so, with most of that due to the boiler.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||January 20, 2023 12:22 AM|
I spent 400 dollars on sex toys. Isn’t that outrageous? How will I afford food this month?
|by Anonymous||reply 28||January 20, 2023 12:34 AM|
Our records indicate you ran a fuck machine and laptop pron for approx. 8 hours a day in December, OP.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||January 20, 2023 12:46 AM|
[quote]But I'm going to look into the hot water heater angle, though I've heard that turning down the temp is not so easy.
You can get a hot water timer. You set so that it heats it up in the morning and the evening, or around your shower schedule and it's off the rest of the day.
You probably might have to have someone install it. If you ever need hot water longer, you can reset it.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||January 20, 2023 1:23 AM|
Here's an article on a hot water heater timer
|by Anonymous||reply 31||January 20, 2023 1:26 AM|
Electric companies are unregulated monopolies. They pay people like R3 to blame ECO FASCISTS or whoever on their price gouging but it's just that. A monopoly gouging people who can't do anything about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||January 20, 2023 1:28 AM|
We had a high gas bill, but we were politely warned by the gas company that it would be higher because of the cost of natural gas.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||January 20, 2023 1:30 AM|
Where I live they send you an estimated bill each month, then every 4-6 months come out and do an actual meter reading. That's where I sometimes get hit with a major bill, especially after long hot spells in the summer.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||January 20, 2023 1:32 AM|
Plenty of USA natural gas is being liquified and transshipped to Europe to counter the Russians cutting Europe off.
Hence higher domestic prices. Get heat pump!
|by Anonymous||reply 35||January 20, 2023 1:48 AM|
I live in a rent-stabilized, elevator, doorman one-bedroom with heat, hot water and gas for cooking included, of course.
My last electric bill was $72. Is that a lot?
|by Anonymous||reply 36||January 20, 2023 1:58 AM|
FPL rules Florida. Anything they want they get from Dumb Santis and the Repugs they bought and paid for. They are raising rates THREE times this year.They have fought solar every step of the way and now they are going after natural gas. They just got a FPL MINIMUM monthly rate approved. . Which means if you have a vacant home or apt ( which many snow birds do have) with zero electrical usage you are still charged $30.00 a month. Robbery is too kind a word.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||January 20, 2023 2:01 AM|
R35 4Chan rot.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||January 20, 2023 2:18 AM|
I got upset when my energy bill ballooned to $27. I won’t complain anymore.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||January 20, 2023 2:28 AM|
I'm on the budget plan, where they add what you pay a year and divide it by 12 monthly payments. Last year it was $94/mo. This year: $141/mo.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||January 20, 2023 2:43 AM|
About $500 a month here for gas and electric. $550 in the deeper cold. I'm by Lake Superior. I keep it below 70.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||January 20, 2023 2:47 AM|
[quote] You can get a hot water timer. You set so that it heats it up in the morning and the evening, or around your shower schedule and it's off the rest of the day.
So it just keeps hearing all day while not in use in case you wish to use it?
|by Anonymous||reply 42||January 20, 2023 3:03 AM|
[quote] I live in a rent-stabilized, elevator, doorman one-bedroom with heat, hot water and gas for cooking included, of course. My last electric bill was $72. Is that a lot?
I live in a 3200 sq. ft single-family home and my last electric bill was $47.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||January 20, 2023 3:23 AM|
[quote] I want to die --OP
Much more expensive.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||January 20, 2023 3:27 AM|
[quote] Plenty of USA natural gas is being liquified and transshipped to Europe to counter the Russians cutting Europe off. Hence higher domestic prices. Get heat pump!
Boris, I count four things in your post that indicate non-native English. Please try harder.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||January 20, 2023 3:50 AM|
R42 , no, it stops heating during that time. My mother had one when I was a kid and there were three of us. And we always had hot water. So, having it turned off most of the day didn't seem to affect us. The water still stays hot enough. Although, that was in Florida and it was kind of a big water heater.
You might have to heat it 3 times a day to have constant hot water if you lived in another state, that's colder. There are also insulation blankets for water heaters.
Not having it on 24 hours a day can save you some money.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||January 20, 2023 4:10 AM|
TURN OFF YOUR VIBRATOR!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 47||January 20, 2023 4:26 AM|
R43 Rubbish and you know it hon.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||January 20, 2023 5:26 AM|
R38 and r45:
You are a total idiot!
|by Anonymous||reply 49||January 20, 2023 2:36 PM|
R38 & R45
What you wrote is flat wrong.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||January 20, 2023 2:37 PM|
From R50's chart, why would Kuwait be importing US LNG? Makes no sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||January 20, 2023 4:37 PM|
I live alone in a one-bedroom apartment. I pay for gas and electricity. My apartment is often so warm (I cannot control the heat from the radiators) that I often keep a window cracked open, even in winter. I cook on a gas stove and rarely use the microwave. I rarely turn on more than one light or lamp at a time. I unplug small appliances when I'm not using them. My TV, cable and internet are plugged into power strips which I turn off at night and when I'm away all day. My utility bills are in the range of $80 - $100 per month---more during the summer if I turn on the AC. My lifestyle wouldn't work for most, but it works well for me.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||January 20, 2023 4:47 PM|
R52: Maybe for tertiary oil production in moribund oilfields. The gas can be pumped downhole and then separated from the oil produced.
"Gas injection, which uses gases such as natural gas, nitrogen, or carbon dioxide (CO2) that expand in a reservoir to push additional oil to a production wellbore, or other gases that dissolve in the oil to lower its viscosity and improves its flow rate. Gas injection accounts for nearly 60 percent of EOR production in the United States."
|by Anonymous||reply 53||January 20, 2023 4:53 PM|
I have an HVAC/gas furnace like the poster above wrote of.
The thermostat is set to switch over at 32 degrees. But it was taking a LONG time for the HVAC to raise the temperature even two degrees - from 66 to 68 degrees. Maybe it's too small for my house.
ANYWAY, I changed the thermostat to Emergency Heat that turns on the furnace for heat even if it's in the 40's outside and my electric bill went down almost $55 last month.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||January 20, 2023 5:38 PM|
r54 -- Use your gas furnace (Emergency Heat) for rapid heat rise and once reached, allow your heat pump to resume as the primary heat source.
I turn off my central HVAC overnight and then use my gas furnace as I described above. Takes about 15 minutes to raise the inside temp from ~62˚ to 68˚.
This technique has saved me a lot of $$$.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||January 20, 2023 6:14 PM|
I wish posters would say where they're living.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||January 20, 2023 6:42 PM|
This is R54 - I live in Indiana.....well that's where my house is.....I wouldn't call it living.
R55 that's what I'm saying - the HVAC would run for almost an hour to raise the temp even 2 degrees.
If I leave it on EM HEAT - the blower and furnace run about five minutes a couple of times an hour and gets to the temp I've set it at. If I keep on the HVAC I have an hour's worth of electricity use.
Like I said - it cools fine in the summer - but it might be too small to heat the house. And yes I have it serviced every year.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||January 20, 2023 7:51 PM|
I'm in northern California which means PG%E for all my energy needs. PG&E, bringing pipeline explosions and firestorms to your town soon!
So we got this notice from them recently:
Natural gas market prices this past winter were about 90% higher in our service area than in the previous winter. Electricity market prices have also increased due to higher natural gas market prices because natural gas is one source used to produce electricity.
I too assumed it was the Ukranian thing, and I am not a Russian Bot. If I was, I wouldn't be shopping for another throw blanket would I? Our heating bill this month for a 1400 sq ft house is $250. We keep the thermostat on 65 degrees.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||January 20, 2023 8:41 PM|
Northern Wisconsin. My house is here, but I wouldn't call it living either. $500 a month + for gas and electric which are billed together. No paying off the gas over the summer either. You fall behind on either from April 15-Nov 1st and they will cut you off.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||January 20, 2023 9:14 PM|
[quote] Do any DLers heat their homes with anthracite?
Oh, what the hell would Tylenol do to heat a house?
|by Anonymous||reply 60||January 20, 2023 9:28 PM|
R52, you don’t pay for water?
|by Anonymous||reply 61||January 20, 2023 9:31 PM|
R52, do you wash and dry your clothes at home?
|by Anonymous||reply 62||January 20, 2023 9:32 PM|
R57 R59 Thanks for the laughs. I've never been to Indiana so I can't review it but I've lived in Madison and been to northern Wisconsin so I kind of feel your pain.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||January 20, 2023 9:58 PM|
They charge us a fortune to live here r63. Some of the highest prices in the state. No competition for anything, so it's price gouging every day.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||January 20, 2023 10:09 PM|
I have friends in Wisconsin - their winters are much harsher than mine down here in Indian-No-Place.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||January 20, 2023 10:14 PM|
Here you go, OP
|by Anonymous||reply 66||January 20, 2023 10:35 PM|
[quote] Move to a warmer state.
Nope, won't work R1. I live in Florida and have had to run my AC this winter. Today was 80. And wait until our 9-month long summer hits.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||January 20, 2023 11:14 PM|
You ran your AC today, R67? I can't believe it! I live in FL all year (Ocala National Forest) and I'm not even warm enough until it hits 80. Hell, that's where I keep my air in the summertime. And this winter, I've kept my heat at 62 at night and 65 during the day. I just wear a lot of layered clothes and sleep with my little dog under my heavy comforter.
Maybe you should move (back) up North.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||January 20, 2023 11:43 PM|
[quote] I'm not even warm enough until it hits 80.
You sound like my octogenarian parents. How old are you?
|by Anonymous||reply 69||January 21, 2023 1:33 AM|
Cut down on the rechargeable dildos.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||January 21, 2023 1:41 AM|
Go pick your ass outdoors!
|by Anonymous||reply 71||January 21, 2023 1:44 AM|
I've enrolled in budget billing. It's been worth it. My place is small. 800 SF. So I pay about $55 to $65 each on a monthly basis. My high speed internet is about $100, and the water bill is $120. My most expensive utility. Altogether I pay about $330 a month. My mortgage is about $1400 a month.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||January 21, 2023 1:56 AM|
R52 here. No, I don’t pay for water. Yes, I wash and dry my clothes at home. I live in New York City. My building has a laundry room in the basement. I can get a week’s worth of laundry washed and dried in about an hour (using several machines at once).
|by Anonymous||reply 73||January 21, 2023 2:54 AM|
I'll trade you my summer electricity bill for your January one. Last August it exceeded $1000 for the first time and I nearly puked when I opened it.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||January 21, 2023 3:12 AM|
Mine was $66 - live in Los Angeles
|by Anonymous||reply 75||January 21, 2023 3:37 AM|
OP,,if it’s really a hardship, consider getting a roommate. It saved me tons of $$$ during my single years..
|by Anonymous||reply 76||January 21, 2023 3:39 AM|
If you have certain insurance supplements, they give you cash to pay your utility bills. And there are some programs that can help - but I am sure they are stretched to the breaking point.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||January 21, 2023 3:48 AM|
How old are your appliances? Your refrigerator in particular. Big energy hogs.
Our local electric company provides rebates for replacing old appliances with energy efficient models.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||January 21, 2023 4:30 AM|
My bill was $200 this month (combined electric and gas). (1800 sf house). We had almost a week of temperatures that never went above 10 F in December and the remainder of the month was mostly in the mid-low 20s F. I have gas heat, thermostat set to 68 during the day, 66 at night. However, I was gone from Dec. 24 through the end of the month and the thermostat was turned down to 63 while I was out of town. I have a lot of windows, and some sliders. I put weighted blankets along the bottoms of the sliders, which always seem like a spot for cold air to leak in or warm air to leak out and I put a clear vinyl bath curtain on a rod across the slider to preserve view and daylight during our short winter days. Close curtains during coldest weather. Turn off the lights in unused rooms. I expect one more high bill, then the bills will taper off. Summer bill typically about $40. Maybe $70 if I use a lot of AC. I'm looking into a heat pump. In the past they were not used much in areas like mine, where winter temperatures are extreme. But supposedly there are new generation pumps that do a better job of heating even below 32. I need a little more info. Based on some of the responses above, there are some posters who have heat pumps and use their gas heat to get the house to a warm temperature before switching over. That's a possibility. Or I'll just use a heat pump for cooling the house in the summer and warming it in the shoulder seasons of spring and fall - saving gas heat for mid-winter. I'm in eastern Washington. (Montana-lite).
|by Anonymous||reply 79||January 21, 2023 5:41 AM|
R75 How I wish I had LADWP. SCE has always been much more expensive.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||January 21, 2023 6:17 AM|
Last August mine was $500.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||January 21, 2023 6:39 AM|
R58 I live in central California and we have Southern California Edison. I received that same letter.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||January 21, 2023 6:43 AM|
As someone who has lived in New England with heat pumps for 33 years, I'd advise you to think/research long and hard before switching from all-gas heat. Your gas cost of less than $200 for an 1800 sq ft home during a very cold month is low. I'm assuming you're thinking about getting a heat pump with gas (not electric) supplementary heat, as the former in your cold winter climate would be at least several times more expensive than your current gas cost. In addition, no matter how efficient new heat pumps are, your supplemental gas heat would likely be turning on frequently to assist the electric heat pump all the time when it's 10 degrees and below outside.
Never locate the outside part of a heat pump near a bedroom window. In heat mode, they can be several times noisier than the outside part of a central AC system. The colder it gets outside, the noisier Heat pumps get. Again, another issue to consider.
In my part of New England, the winter electric rates have increased 66% from last winter. The gas rates went up "only" 20%. My upcoming one-month electric bill, including my all-electric, 13-year-old, originally-high-efficiency heat pump will be at around $800 to keep my 1,400 sq foot condo at 68 degrees (all appliances in my condo are also electric). The insulation is poor in the building, so that certainly contributes to the high cost, but I don't think it accounts for all the difference between less than $200 and around $800 dollars per month.
This is why I advised you to think carefully about a heat pump when you now have fuel bills less than $200 for a cold month.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||January 21, 2023 7:09 AM|
^^^ "as the former in your cold climate" should be "the latter" by which I meant electric supplemental heat.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||January 21, 2023 7:16 AM|
Thank you r84. That's exactly the real-life experience I'm looking for as I make some decisions.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||January 21, 2023 10:19 AM|
R72 - My local electric utility has been pushing "monthly bill budget" plans for years. Finally I gave them a call to see how it works -- I don't know what your circumstances are but for me it was a total rip-off. First off, they add up the last 12 months for a set average (rounded up of course). This sounds fine until you read the fine print stating that if you exceed the average, you will be billed for that separately. If you come in under the average, you get bupkis. So, in other words, let me pay more for my low months and the same as always for my high months. Never trust your utility service to be looking out for your best interest.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||January 21, 2023 12:52 PM|
"Monthly bill budget" sounds like a different program, than levelized billing.
My 12-month average levelized billing amount is $67. It varies a little monthly, depending on usage (weather) and changes in fuel costs as well as rates.
Overall I like being on leveled billing.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||January 21, 2023 2:40 PM|
I live in a passive solar house (2000sf - central VA) and have a high efficiency heat pump/air handler. The house is well insulated and has a southern orientation with windows all across the front main level to take advantage of the low angle of the sun during the cooler months. My most recent electric bill was $194 - this included the bitter Christmas weekend cold snap. I also have a gas fireplace that I use in the mornings to take the chill off the front room and supplement the Heat Pump on the colder overcast days.
The problem with heat pumps is that they freeze up in the lower temps and go into defrost mode which blows cold air throughout the house during that cycle. Plus, they get very noisy trying to pull the cold air through the outside unit extracting what little heat there may be in the outside air. The emergency/supplemental heat kicks on to blunt the cold air in defrost mode but it's still cold. Fortunately the really bitter cold spells we have here are short-lived.
Where the heat pump really shines is during the cooling season - I set my temp to 74 and my monthly bill ran about 100-120.00 which I consider reasonable.
My electricity is provided by an electric coop so I pay less that having a big name electric provider although they did add another surcharge (15.00) to cover the increased cost of energy.
Considering what others pay for their heating/cooling in other parts of the country I consider myself lucky.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||January 21, 2023 4:42 PM|
[quote]and I put a clear vinyl bath curtain on a rod across the slider to preserve view and daylight during our short winter days. Close curtains during coldest weather.
I am NOT putting a tacky vinyl fucking shower curtain over my sliding glass doors. How miserable.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||January 21, 2023 5:25 PM|
Another instance of growing up with a father who was just insane about money. We weren't poor, but if you listened to my depression-era father, you would have thought we hadn't a penny to our names. I was about 8 years old before I realized that no, you didn't have to freeze throughout the winter. I went to play at a friend's house and had to strip off two layers of sweaters and a long-sleeved thermal shirt after only a few minutes, and when I asked his mother what the thermostat was set at she shocked me by saying "72". I thought under penalty of law you couldn't set the thermostat higher than 64. My father insisted it not be set higher than 62 during the day and — I don't know how we did it — 50 at night. Days after receiving the gas bill were particularly bad; one time, he turned the furnace off completely and froze the pipes overnight, which ended up costing a lot more to fix than running the furnace.
I therefore refuse to be cold (or hot during the summer) and run the HVAC without regard to the bill. Living in SoCal, I also received the nice note from SCE about the natural gas prices and was expecting a fairly large bill this month, so was pleasantly surprised when it came in a few days ago at $439 (as opposed to last January when it was about $160). Hubby was fretting because his brother visited over Christmas and wanted to swim so we heated the pool for two days. I reminded him that when we lived in New England I budgeted $500 a month for HVAC year round, and that was 20 years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||January 21, 2023 6:20 PM|
R85 Reading some of the subsequent replies reminded me to add that the inside part of my electric heat pump system is in an unconditioned attic which surely also contributes to the high running cost of my heat pump.
And in a twist of fate, last night my heat pump conked out, and now I’m running on emergency electric heat, which will drive the next bill even higher!
|by Anonymous||reply 91||January 21, 2023 8:08 PM|
I can’t afford to pay $400 a month. I’m so cold.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||January 21, 2023 9:44 PM|
Heat pumps are not for every application -- proper sizing and expert installation is key -- but they are getting very popular due to advances in their technology.
Sales are booming.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||January 21, 2023 9:47 PM|
If you already have central HVAC consisting of electric AC + a gas furnace, then converting to a dual fuel HVAC can be very simple.
Say your AC goes out but your gas furnace is fine. Simply ask your HVAC company to quote you a replacement AC system like you already had, but ALSO a heat pump of the same tonnage.
For not very much more money, you’ll get a system that has superior cost and energy efficiency.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||January 22, 2023 8:52 PM|