Four Students Found Dead Near the University of Idaho Part 12 SUSPECT ARRESTED

Would there be any reason for the prosecution to offer BK a plea deal to avoid the death penalty? Or do you think they might be absolutely set on pursuing the death penalty and so determined to go to trial?

The trial won’t be done in that area. These detectives and prosecutors don’t seem like the brightest bunch. Experts said that the list that of what was taken from his house was shockingly low. There wasn’t much in the way of evidence. It may come down to the computer.

I had figured he'd take a plea deal to avoid the death penalty, but reading on here about the lack of evidence (like the stuff taken from his house), I'm not sure anymore. He's so arrogant, I do wonder if he'll decide to fire the public defender and take over the case himself, a la Bundy. The spotlight would be on him, and that might be irresistible.

Ashley Banfield show - guy interviewed a former employee of the Mad Greek, where Xana and Maddie worked. This person said Bryan came in and was very specific how he wanted his vegan pizza prepared. They showed a picture of the Mad Greek, a very small space, so if they were working when he came in, he almost certainly would have noticed them. It's like the only place in town that serves vegan food - and it's known for it.

Some news about the gag order being made stronger - so that current employees of the Mad Greek couldn't talk to the press, so it was lucky this reporter found the one who worked there in the past, but when Maddie and Xana worked there and also when Bryan came in.

Oh and that the redditor believed to be Bryan 'inside looking' said in a post that Xana and Maddie were the targets.

"It's okay. I'm here to help you". !

The words he said to Xana that Dylan heard before he killed her!

Xana and Maddie were servers at the Mad Greek.

Did Xana say this to Kohberger at the Mad Greek? Did he say this to her as a last taunt so she'd remember who he was, did it refer to something that happened there he was pissed about after she said this to him as a server?

Good god, I suddenly thought of that sentence and realized this might be the meaning of that horrifying sentence.

R6- Calm down, sunshine. I think you may be a bit lost.

R6 = Maaaaaary!

He's locked up and unlikely to ever get out. Next...

From yesterdays NYP article, sounds like we called it a few threads ago— BK “met” the girls at the restaurant where they worked and / or stalked them on social media.

I'd much rather get the death penalty than life in prison. Assuming it would be carried out quickly.

Back in my day (which was admittedly a long time ago), there was a certain type of socially inept, creeper guy. Often they would have good credentials on paper.

They would tend to go after girls who were cute but not beautiful. (These girls were still out if their league.)

When these girls rejected them, they would get angry. You could almost see them thinking “But you aren’t beautiful! You should be GRATEFUL for my attention!”

Now we have incels, who certainly aren’t accomplished even on paper.

Anyway, I can see BK thinking he was some kind of catch and these cute but chubby, cute but not beautiful girls should be grateful for his attention.

Or maybe there was actually some sort of negative interaction at the restaurant.

^ I was discussing this last night. He ignored the beautiful Dylan, not not these three “all-American” girls who felt attainable to him. He was outraged they wouldn’t respond to him.

I am sure at least the two waitress roommates discussed him because they likely waited on him, and I’m sure he got really fucking weird with them. No idea if all three girls had discussed him following all of them on SM.

He definitely knew how to stay on the right side of stalker laws by only sending “how are you?” The sad and terrifying reality is that a stalker like BK isn’t someone who can be stopped. I’m sure the girls all decided that their only option was to ignore him, which they 100% did, and look where they are. Women should not have to live in fear, I see it as trauma, they know they are sitting ducks for lunatics and that’s a horrible feeling.

The only other thing the girls could have done is block him, go private, or shut down their social media altogether. I think it’s time for law enforcement to start teaching women that if they want to stop a stalker, they’ve got to get off of SM. Stop feeding the beast, you’ve got a shot that they might get bored and move on.

I got blamed on earlier threads for “blaming the victim,” but people (not just women) have to start taking personal safety seriously.

Get off social media or avoid posting anything too personal. Install secularity measures. Even inexpensive bars and latches slow down burglars.

Get plenty of outdoor lighting and use it. Get cameras if you can. If you get cameras, position one of them where the camera can’t be reached. In my area, there was a group of burglars who just sauntered up to Ring cameras and put tape over them.

Security measures.

Criminals probably don’t care if you are religious.

yes, but how to get rid of personal information that's available online? you put in someone's name and all this fucking info comes up, who they may be related to, who lived at the address etc, how long they have been married to their spouse etc this is so fucking ridiculous.

[quote]In my area, there was a group of burglars who just sauntered up to Ring cameras and put tape over them.

But their faces and other things would’ve been saved before the tape, no?

[quote] Even inexpensive bars and latches slow down burglars.

When my local police department did a security survey of my house they gave this advice. They said if a burglar wants to get into your house, they will. The idea is to make your house less of a target and more difficult to get into so they’ll go to a different house.

For instance, a bush that blocks the view of a burglar from the street by a first floor window. The burglar could sit there all night and work on that window because nobody would see him. Yet if the hedges were trimmed, he may just move on to another.

R16, one thing you can do is update your billing addresses on all cards, etc to be a PO Box. Convey your house and other assets to a trust with a separate address. The trust should not have your name in the title of the trust.

You can supposedly opt out of / suppress these online search services like Radaris but I’m not sure now.

One thing I found ironic about this case is how Kaylee's family insisted that Kaylee was always careful and hyper aware of safety and her surroundings. Meanwhile, their daughter lived in a flophouse with no security features and all kinds of people coming and going.

Here's a pic of all the roommates. I'm not really seeing how people find them all that attractive. They all look cheap aside from Xana who is the only one who appears remotely natural.

Kaylee’s parents are MAGA.

They think loudly proclaiming something makes it true.

Daddy Big-Mouth should have been installing safety features at Kaylee’s house instead of flapping his gums. (You know he was already a blowhard before the murders.)

These kids wouldn't have been afraid of burglars because they had so little worth stealing, and their personal possessions were in their rooms behind combination locks. Definitely not a house that would be targeted by burglars, unless someone was under the impression that they had an interesting amount of drugs, and I don't think these girls could afford an interesting amount of drugs.

And if the girls were brought up by MAGA idiots, they probably thought they were as safe as anyone, living in a very white small town. The right wing likes to project all fears for personal safety onto Others, immigrants or POC or drag queens who read stories to kids, and ignore the fact that all-white small towns aren't safe at all. There's lots of crime in white small towns, much of it drug-related, but they still like to believe that crime is an "urban" problem, and assure themselves that white neighbors and guns are enough.

College towns and small, blue collar, “white” towns are notoriously high-crime.

College towns because they are targeted by crazies and because the population is so transient.

Small, poor towns because of drug crime.

What's the crime rate in Moscow?

No crime Moscow. Nyet.

Even without a serial killer, these roommates had too many people coming into their space. I had a roommate whose boyfriend stole from all of us. You don't have to be a millionaire to care that your belongings are stolen. Fuck that.

"Kohberger is said to be a strict vegan. In an interview with the New York Post, a former family member, speaking anonymously, revealed that his aunt and uncle had to buy new pots and pans as he would "not eat from anything that had ever had meat cooked in them."

I wonder, horribly, if that is why he wore a mask. He knew there would be blood and tissue flying and did not want anything to enter his mouth or nose.

Personally, I think the aunt and uncle are idiots. You think I’m buying all new cookware to please your little whims? Bitch, you can buy your own cookware and make your own food or eat your meals at the local ranch like the cows grazing. The fuck I care?

He’s not a vegan - he’s plant based. He doesn’t give a shit about animals or any living being obviously.

Vegan = ethical stance against animal suffering in any form

Plant based - not eating animal products

[quote] From yesterdays NYP article, sounds like we called it a few threads ago— BK “met” the girls at the restaurant where they worked and / or stalked them on social media.

That’s not what they said. There’s no evidence that any of that is true. Just rumor and theory. Stop.

R28 has a brain tumor.

[quote] I wonder, horribly, if that is why he wore a mask. He knew there would be blood and tissue flying and did not want anything to enter his mouth or nose.

Right, it couldn’t have been to keep their identity hidden, dumbass frau.

[quote] Even without a serial killer

Learn the difference between serial killer and mass murderer.

R31 well of course I did consider the obvious but this guys a real whacko. So picky about the pots and pans is what made me think that.

Now the he is a resident of the Moscow Marriott, I wonder how much worry he has for pots and pans?

Hey R30 - Veganism is not a diet you philistine

[quote] Learn the difference between serial killer and mass murderer.

…and a spree killer.

A vegan patronizing a small town vegan restaurant two times isn't especially damning

I’d call this a multiple murder. “Spree” implies more than one location. “Mass” suggests more than 4. Now, if he’d gone for the other two girls . . .

About the online address problem - look, I'm old, and I think the crime rate was even higher back when nearly everybody had their name, address and phone number in the stupid phone book - copies of which were everywhere, like in phone booths and public places.

And many criminals just pick people and places randomly - like Bundy wandering around looking for a girl that was his 'type'.

Whoever said secure your house was right. Cameras in hard to reach places, a dog or two if you can, I checked on "inside burglar bars" once and they weren't too expensive - well, maybe $2k for a 4 bedroom house. Make sure you figure out the possible fire hazard, so that you can open the bars on the inside yourself to get out - you might need a key? Be purposeful and alert when you go anywhere - if you think someone's following you, drive to the police station and not home - etc etc. I'm sure there's more advice online. Or take a self defense class, with or without gun training.

And put the damned smart phones DOWN when you're in pubic - and pay attention to your surroundings including all the people and how they're acting.

Lock your doors. It's not hard.

I’m not locking my damn doors. I am sure I will get murdered too, but I can’t be bothered.

Some expert on the subject said that the killer might be a hybrid killer, someone with characteristics of different types of murderers, for instance serial and spree.

On another note, I found this on the first thread:

[quote] Has anyone interrogated the Criminology majors yet, this may just be an end of the semester special project? [/quote]

No, it's not Bryan, but it's still kind of spooky.

[quote]From yesterdays NYP article, sounds like we called it a few threads ago— BK “met” the girls at the restaurant where they worked and / or stalked them on social media. That’s not what they said. There’s no evidence that any of that is true. Just rumor and theory. Stop.

Which part do you contend was not reported (and “verified”) via a witness?

Sure, some witnesses lie, but when you say it’s just a rumor it makes me think you are an idiot.

R43- Are we sure? Their last post on any DL thread was 12/26/22.

If LE would just verify they found dog hair in his apartment that matched that stupid Golden Doodle, that would be the end of it, for the most part.

[quote]Convey your house and other assets to a trust with a separate address.

Yes why didn't these teenagers in college just convert all their assets into a trust with a separate address, and also install expensive security measures on a house they were renting and would only live in for a few months?

R46 They aren’t dumb enough to do that and give the defense more info. The frau detectives can wait.

[quote] Veganism is not a diet you philistine

Sure, Jan.

[quote] If LE would just verify they found dog hair in his apartment that matched that stupid Golden Doodle, that would be the end of it, for the most part.

They should be concentrating on the car. He probably lived in a filthy place. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t hair. Nothing they took sound’s incriminating per experts. They were actually shocked by how poor this looks for LE.

[quote] Some expert on the subject said that the killer might be a hybrid killer, someone with characteristics of different types of murderers

Oh, please. These idiots are now just pulling shit out of their asses to get a fee for appearing on cable television. They’re running out of material.

[quote]Nothing they took sound’s incriminating per experts.

Oh, fucking dear!

[quote]Nothing they took sound’s [sic] incriminating per experts. They were actually shocked by how poor this looks for LE.

Well, then it’s a good thing the experts weighed in, without knowing what exactly was found, where or how. I’m glad there are experts out there to tell me what I should believe about a criminal investigation because I wouldn’t know what to think otherwise.

Holy shit, R6, He probably rehearsed the crime endlessly in his mind. If he had a catch phrase, that was it.

There was a similar catchphrase at the center of this week’s episode of “Will Trent.” It was spooky.

You're on an anonymous gossip board, R53. People are allowed to speculate, post theories, and talk shit.

While having good security is obviously recommended regardless, a murder like this is really very rare. You're much more likely to be killed by a car but that doesn't stop you from driving or going out. A lot more likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner too but that doesn't stop you from dating either.

Well, I like to think that’s what stopped me from dating anyway.

R58 Touché!

[quote]Nothing they took sound’s incriminating per experts. They were actually shocked by how poor this looks for LE.

Is he going to get away with it?!!

Jackie Fischer, the owner of the Mad Greek restaurant in Moscow slammed a People report where a former unnamed employee claimed that Kohberger had stopped by the eatery twice in the weeks before the killings and ordered vegan pizza.

Two of the victims, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20, worked at the Mad Greek as waitresses. The employee said that the alleged killer’s order was notable because Kohberger, who an aunt told The Post had “very, very weird” dietary restrictions, wanted to ensure that no animal products touched his food.

“𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒏𝒆𝒘𝒔/𝒎𝒆𝒅𝒊𝒂 𝒔𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒍𝒅 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒅𝒐 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒅𝒖𝒆 𝒅𝒊𝒍𝒊𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒃𝒆𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒆 𝒓𝒖𝒏𝒏𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒂 𝒔𝒕𝒐𝒓𝒚 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒑𝒍𝒆𝒕𝒆𝒍𝒚 𝒇𝒂𝒃𝒓𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒆𝒅 𝒊𝒏𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏,

“𝑻𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒑𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒐𝒏 𝒘𝒉𝒐 𝒘𝒂𝒏𝒕𝒔 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 5 𝒎𝒊𝒏𝒖𝒕𝒆𝒔 𝒐𝒇 𝒇𝒂𝒎𝒆 𝒉𝒂𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒘 𝒄𝒂𝒖𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒂 𝒘𝒉𝒐𝒍𝒆 𝒃𝒖𝒏𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝒆𝒙𝒕𝒓𝒂 𝒘𝒐𝒓𝒌 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝒎𝒚𝒔𝒆𝒍𝒇 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒊𝒏𝒗𝒆𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒈𝒂𝒕𝒐𝒓𝒔,” 𝒔𝒉𝒆 𝒂𝒅𝒅𝒆𝒅.

Moron r47, my post re trusts was directly responding to r16, who asked what to do about online information.

That applies to everyone, not just the Idaho students. In fact, we don’t even know if online information was used by BK.

Here’s my full post:

[quote] [R16], one thing you can do is update your billing addresses on all cards, etc to be a PO Box. Convey your house and other assets to a trust with a separate address. The trust should not have your name in the title of the trust. You can supposedly opt out of / suppress these online search services like Radaris but I’m not sure now.

But I guess it was very important to you to mischaracterize my post.

Maybe ask yourself how you became a liar.

The owner of the Mad Greek also said "The news/media should really do their due diligence before running a story with completely fabricated information. This will be my only response to this story from People… It is not true. This person who wants their 5 minutes of fame has now caused a whole bunch of extra work for myself and the investigators. I also have not forbidden employees from speaking to reporters. We all decided collectively to support the families and not share anything that could potentially harm the investigation or cause the families more stress. To all media/reporters/internet sleuths, etc.. please allow us to grieve the loss of our friends and co workers. This has been incredibly hard on us. With our phones ringing off the hook, reporters banging on my door at my private residence and “hunting” down employees as well as showing up constantly at the restaurant, we have not been afforded the time to grieve. Please stop calling, messaging, knocking and showing up. I personally will not be doing any interviews or entertaining wild accusations at this time. My employees also feel the same! To all others, please don’t believe everything you read. If it’s not coming from the courts or the police, wait until it does or doesn’t before judging. To everyone who has supported myself, my family and my employees, thank you. Your kind words and support help us get through each day while we navigate these unknown times. Respectfully, Jackie Fischer Mad Greek" but in the comments I saw "IF BK has NEVER been to the Mad Greek cafe then why would you and the employees feel you had to come together and "agree not to talk" in order to "support and not hurt" the families, etc.? If he was never there, and what was said by former employee was "not true" there would be no need "to come together" and nothing to agree upon!" and that makes a lot of sense. I do not want to disbelieve the owner of the restaurant but what that poster said about it is a thought.

[quote]Maybe ask yourself how you became a liar.

You're the one who claimed you read that BK met the victims at the Mad Greek in the NYT, which didn't happen: you read it in People Magazine, not NYT, and it turned out to not be true. The restaurant said so yesterday.

You're also the one who was complaining in multiple posts about how the victims deserved it because they didn't have security measures, and you were whining up a storm about how others had previously said you were blaming the victims -- which you have been, constantly, on nearly every thread. And on top of all that, half of your posts are you calling people stupid, idiots, or liars.

I get that you're some dumb old frau who thinks being a cunt is the same as being "witty like a gay" but that's your problem, and you should stop making it ours.

[quote]but in the comments I saw "IF BK has NEVER been to the Mad Greek cafe then why would you and the employees feel you had to come together and "agree not to talk" in order to "support and not hurt" the families, etc.? If he was never there, and what was said by former employee was "not true" there would be no need "to come together" and nothing to agree upon!" and that makes a lot of sense. I do not want to disbelieve the owner of the restaurant but what that poster said about it is a thought.

You fucking idiot, they explained it right there: "We all decided collectively to support the families and not share anything that could potentially harm the investigation or cause the families more stress."

It's right there. RIGHT. THERE. But you think the owner is lying because they said something you didn't want to hear, right? Fucking incredible.

The biggest issue with all the internet heat around this case is going to be finding some impartial jurors. There has been too much pontification about this case and BK's likely guilt which will only help the defense to argue that they can't get a fair trial or, afterwards, to appeal a guilty verdict (if that is the outcome) due the members of the jury being "tainted" by all the media coverage.

[quote]You're the one who claimed you read that BK met the victims at the Mad Greek in the NYT, which didn't happen: you read it in People Magazine, not NYT

You are the dumbest motherfucker to ever draw breath.

I wrote that I read it in the NYP.

NEW YORK POST.

Which I did. Do you need me to link it for you or do you know how to use the internet?

And, anyway, that post had nothing to do with the post you were trying to snark on. So good job bringing up irrelevant bullshit.

Too bad you YET AGAIN failed to read.

You have written several posts bitching and meaning about the Mad Greek and telling people to “just stop” (which is dumb cunt language if I’ve ever heard it.)

Now you’re stalking people.

Go out and get laid. You are the most pitiful bitch on DL, and that’s saying something.

[quote]you’re also the one who was complaining in multiple posts about how the victims deserved it because they didn't have security measures,

No one ever said that.

Again, you’re a liar.

Well shite. No updates huh?

No, he just site in the pokey eating his cheerios and almond milk.

I just spent yesterday trying to scrub my info from those people search sites. it's fucking crazy how much info they have on you!

I'm also getting a private mailbox ASAP! if anyone has any privacy tips (online or otherwise) please let us know!

One tip I found. USPS sells your addresses. esp when you fill in those change of address forms. However, if you put the move is temporary(not permanent), they aren't supposed to sell your new address.

Why is “Concerned”European so obsessed with crime in the USA?

R68, some nervous Nelly or Nellies have been annoying the snot out of everyone by obsessing over what security measures those kids should have had, when they lived in a rental house with little spending money and five residents apparently asking lots of people over. We're annoyed because 1) Security equipment is the landlord's responsibility, not the renter's, and 2) the repeated rants over what those kids should have done comes across as victim-blaming, which every decent person loathes.

The nervous nellies can feel free to bore everyone by saying what security measure you're implementing yourselves, and what you think is reasonable for various income levels. If the NNs do that they will still be bores, of course, but they will be much less offensive.

[quote] Security equipment is the landlord's responsibility

Door locks are "security equipment." We can discuss locking doors without blaming these students for getting murdered.

If this pasty asshole was that obsessed with them, he would have gotten them anyhow. It wasn't a crime of opportunity where he walked by and saw the slider open.

If you want to bore everyone's ass off by proudly talking about locking your own door, go ahead and be a dullard!

But talking about what those students should have done is pointless and victim-blaming, and too tedious for words. Give it a fucking rest.

Somewhere on one of these older threads I suggested that vegetarianism was part of his motivation-that he felt the girls were not being proper vegans or didn’t honor his veganism. I suggested that’s also why he didn’t kill the dog.

R72 Mainly so gobshites like yourself can storm onto the threads stamping your foot and demanding i leave, and then I get to watch you combust in impotent fury when I refuse.

Unlikely, R77, because 99.99999999% of humans would fail to take his veganism as seriously as he supposedly took it himself.

Isn’t vegetarianism and vegan two different things?

Yes, R80, they are 2 different things.

Thanks, r81.

[quote]Isn’t vegetarianism and vegan two different things?

They are both mental illnesses.

Neither are mental illnesses, just lifestyle choices. Vegetarianism means you can eat dairy and eggs but not meat. Veganism means no animal products at all.

R77, that’s a fascinating post, no sarcasm. I’m the purple-hands troll, & I’m convinced he has OCD and is obsessively washing his hands (maybe the gloves he wore a lot had latex and he’s allergic?? Idk.). I think we can all agree that he is quite extreme, likely neurotic, and for sure neuro-divergent. And hearing how adamant he is about his food (actually a better description is “militant”) I wouldn’t be shocked at all if his diet ties everything together, stagger things have happened. Anything is possible with this guy so far.

I want to point out that while he was indeed a complete moron during the crime in too many ways to list, in other ways, he actually did a decent job of covering his tracks. Right now, aside from minuscule DNA on sheath, the rest is truly circumstantial. Unless they come up with more DNA, this is not a slam dunk. The prosecutor will have a narrow path to victory. And if BK actually fights for himself, and I think he’s going to, he may just wiggle out somehow. Yes, he pinged in the towers that show his route, but there’s nothing that proves he went in that house, especially if the sheath is touch dna. Dylan’s testimony will never be conclusive to a jury. Literally the only case the prosecutor can make is that they must see “the totality of the circumstances”.

The one bright spot is that he followed them on social media. I’m pretty shocked he didn’t have a burner phone, if he had done this using a burner, he would be free, though I have no idea if burners could allow a criminal to surf the web completely undetected? The user would need a VPN scrambler, a Tor browser, and god only knows what else, though I think there has got yo be other methods to track a “dark web burner”, any one know if it’s possible to completely hide your web browsing on a burner phone? If it’s possible to have a second device that can be 100% cloaked, that means there will be a copycat who learns from BK’s mistakes and does exactly that because killers evolve. If the killer uses a burner phone and leaves his cell in the house, they’re home free.

[quote]Right now, aside from minuscule DNA on sheath, the rest is truly circumstantial.

Who says the DNA found on the sheath was “minuscule”? You’re assuming facts.

Second, if your DNA is found at a crime scene where you have never been before and it has no business being there, on a piece of equipment that housed the murder weapon no less, the ballgame is over. A decent prosecutor can get a guilty verdict on that alone, throwing out all the other evidence.

[quote] Is he going to get away with it?!!

It all depends just how circumstantial this is. If they don’t have a smoking gun then anything can happen. Casey Anthony is still out there walking around.

[quote] Who says the DNA found on the sheath was “minuscule”?

If it’s touch DNA, they’re screw. It’s considered pseudoscience and many courtrooms don’t even allow it in.

If they have blood, that would be a big deal. However, because it’s a party house, the defense will simply say he had once been there like so many others.

If they have his skin under the victims’ fingernails, that would be a slam dunk.

I wonder if he’ll try to accuse his father of the murders.

[quote]Right now, aside from minuscule DNA on sheath, the rest is truly circumstantial.

Um, do you know what the definition of circumstantial is?

[quote] Somewhere on one of these older threads I suggested that vegetarianism was part of his motivation-that he felt the girls were not being proper vegans or didn’t honor his veganism. I suggested that’s also why he didn’t kill the dog.

That wild be hilarious. I doubt it though. Most people aren’t vegan.

[quote] If they have blood, that would be a big deal. However, because it’s a party house, the defense will simply say he had once been there like so many others.

I should have added if they’re going by skin cells found at the residence or a shoe print. Blood would be another story if it was found there - his blood.

[quote]If they have blood, that would be a big deal. However, because it’s a party house, the defense will simply say he had once been there like so many others.

So the last time he was at this hypothetical party—which no one saw him, because if they did they’d be called to testify—he bled there? And left his knife sheath with blood on it which, by golly, also happened to have contained the murder weapon?

That is very serendipitous.

You're forgetting they found bloodstains at his apartment, which are being analyzed. If that blood belongs to the victims, how does he explain how it got there?

R88 would say “um, um, maybe he got his r gs from one of the women and wiped it on a napkin and dropped it in his car and then brought it in his house because he was out of Bounty. All perfectly, easily explainable.”

Because we can’t look at the facts.

🙄

“maybe he got his r gs from one of the women”

Should read maybe he got his r gs from one of the women

Oh, I guess that word is censored here. They are things planes have and they’re red. If you don’t know what that means, Google it.

R86, for the life of me I cannot remember the source on a “minuscule” example, I can’t cite a source for that so take it with a huge grain of salt. But let’s pretend just for now that it is true that it is a teeny tiny sample. Would that influence a jury, hmmm? I am saying that I think it could. Soon enough we will know how big that sample was…

R89, what am I missing? It looks highly circumstantial to me. Aside from that single DNA sample, there is no other DNA so far. It is a series of actions that point toward his guilt (I believe he did this FYI), but there are *plenty* of cases where someone was wrongly convicted and later it was proven definitively that the accused was indeed innocent and it was all based on circumstantial evidence. I think it is possible for a lawyer to argue that if we have no other DNA, he must be found innocent because our country has a history of wrongful convictions that occurred in similar cases. “You must err on the side of innocent because tomorrow this could be you on trial”. So what am I missing for real?

[quote]but there are *plenty* of cases where someone was wrongly convicted and later it was proven definitively that the accused was indeed innocent and it was all based on circumstantial evidence.

But those exonerations were based on finding—what? Wait for it—DNA that was not the convicted persons.

The very same evidence you’re saying is “minuscule” and doesn’t mean much.

[quote]Aside from that single DNA sample, there is no other DNA so far.

How much DNA do you want? Pools of it? If your DNA is found at a crime scene, especially tangential to the murder weapon, that’s it, you’re done. Period.

Not always R99!

I'm a lifelong vegetarian (not vegan) and it's not very weird to ask questions about the kitchen before ordering. For example, a restaurant with veggie burgers on the menu will often cook the patties on the same grill as the beef burgers. It's not really vegetarian if it's cooked in animal fat. I used to ask, but now I just know and don't bother ordering it unless it's a completely vegetarian restaurant. My friends who are vegan and vegetarian tend to ask similar questions or might ask about possible hidden meat sources in the food (e.g. burritos at a Mexican restaurant may have animal fat in the beans or their could be oyster sauce in your veggie Pad Thai).

Maybe servers hate this, but these questions shouldn't come as a surprise and I'm pretty sure they hear it a lot from fellow vegetarians and vegans. It's probably the most normal thing I've heard about BK so far.

Do you think it’s normal that he made family throw away pots and pans r101? My husband had an ex-wife who made him throw away the laundry machines because a pen leaked in them, and she believed the ink was cancerous. I don’t consider either normal.

He didn't make anyone throw away pots and pans, R102.

Au contraire r103. Do you know him that you can say that with such confidence? I don’t. But I did read the pots and pans story one multiple outlets, I think it is already an accepted part of the BK Canon.

R102, I do think it's unusual to request separate pots/pans that have never touched meat, especially if it's not a house BK lived in. But I also have to admit there is a preference among many vegetarians and vegans for the kitchen itself to be all vegetarian or all vegan. It just reduces the possibility of anything touching meat, no risk of encountering anything on a poorly cleaned pan, etc. and that really is a comfort, especially if someone is doing this for animal welfare reasons. It would be a "plus" but not something most would ever ask for.

But if Bryan was willing to eat at Mad Greek then he must have known those pots/pans, plates, and utensils had all previously touched meat. So I'm skeptical of the claim and wonder if he used it as an excuse to not have to eat at his aunt's house or so he could bring in better outside food. If I was arrested for murdering 4 people, I wouldn't expect an aunt to immediately release a statement saying I was an OCD type of eater. I think BK definitely committed the murders but his aunt sounds like a twit.

Your reading comprehension is very poor, isn't it, R104? You never once read that he made anyone throw out pots and pans.

[quote]Your reading comprehension is very poor, isn't it, [R104]? You never once read that he made anyone throw out pots and pans.

I'm not r104 - in fact I have posted on all 12 of these threads maybe half a dozen times - but I have certainly read that BK made his uncle and aunt throw out pots and pans and/or buy dedicated pans for his vegan cooking - that doesn't mean that it is true, r106. People post a lot of crap on threads like these, and even in the press when they have nothing else to talk about.

When Anne Heche died, it was printed in many papers that she was probably drunk, because there was a photo of a bottle with a red cap in her car. It was immediately assumed that it was a vodka bottle. Over a month later, the tox report came back - and there was no alcohol in her system. That bottle was never identified, other than it had a red cap on it.

All of that talk - much of it stated as fact - came to nothing. Sometimes crazy people do crazy shit for no reason at all.

Why on earth are you two arguing whether he had people throw out pots and pans or not? What does that have to do with the murders?

[quote]When Anne Heche died,

Ahem.

[quote]or their could be oyster sauce in your veggie Pad Thai

Oh, dear!

[quote]Not always [R99]!

[quote]—OJ's bronco

Again, this guy is no OJ Simpson. The Simpson jury would’ve done anything to acquit him for a variety of reasons, one of which was the prosecution put on a horrible case.

One of the first post-exit interviews of a juror she complained about them putting on the domestic violence witnesses because, in her mind, DV had nothing to do with the murder. Really?

Also because OJ was much beloved. This guy is a fucking weird creep.

R107, please point to a source where it's said that BK made anyone throw out pots and pans.

[quote] So the last time he was at this hypothetical party—which no one saw him, because if they did they’d be called to testify—he bled there? And left his knife sheath with blood on it which

They never said it was blood.

[quote][R107], please point to a source where it's said that BK made anyone throw out pots and pans. —I'll wait

Wait for the rest of your life, r112. I said I'd read it (and I have), not that I had a source - and that's the point I'm making. You are spinning in circles because a random person said BK had told someone to throw out pots and pans. Why does it matter, and why are you wasting your time asking for verification over something of no consequence?

You chastised someone else for reading comprehension issues. What I said was:

[quote]I have certainly read that BK made his uncle and aunt throw out pots and pans and/or buy dedicated pans for his vegan cooking

Do you not understand what "and/or" means? It means one, or maybe both things.

Here's one:

What did you expect them to take from his apartment? A severed hand? The forensics on the car, any evidence not in the PCA they had pre-warrant, results of the apartment evidence analysis, we won’t know any of this until trial or leaks from discovery (in June). I don’t know why people feel one way or the other about how strong the case is.

R113, did you not read the quote I cited before my quote? Here, let me post it again:

[quote]If they have blood, that would be a big deal. However, because it’s a party house, the defense will simply say he had once been there like so many others.

This poster is suggesting that if they found BK’s blood in the house the defense would say he’s been there before.

R116, read r91.

[quote] Oh, I guess that word is censored here. They are things planes have and they’re red. If you don’t know what that means, Google it.

No idea what you’re talking about.

R117, yes, as you read it now. However, when those posts were made (last night) they came in seconds apart.

R118, it’s the name of the NHL hockey team in Detroit.

R96- rigs?

R114, you interjected in a conversation that didn't involve you, I was addressing. R104, who did indeed say in his post at R102 that BK made people "throw away" pots and pans. That has never been stated in the media, anywhere.

What has been said is that BK's aunt and uncle bought him new pots/pans (that hadn't been tainted by meat). Do you suppose his family converted to veganism and also used the new "untainted" OR do you think that they bought them for BK and his diet alone and continued to use their regular pots and pans?

Why is this an issue, you ask? Ask R104, who tried to correct my post at R103. He or she is the person who erroneously stated that BK had people throw away pots/pans instead of simply buying a new set that hadn't been contaminated with meat.

[quote]What has been said is that BK's aunt and uncle bought him new pots/pans (that hadn't been tainted by meat). Do you suppose his family converted to veganism and also used the new "untainted" OR do you think that they bought them for BK and his diet alone and continued to use their regular pots and pans?

Thing is, r122, I don't care because it doesn't matter regarding the murders. I can't imagine why his aunt/uncle would buy BK pots and pans when he could buy his own, but in the end, what does any of that matter?

I don't comment much, but I have read most of the posts on all 12 threads. I understood the backstory between you and the other poster, because I read it. It involves me because I observed that exchange and wanted to comment on the absurdity of it.

R123, I imagine they bought him separate pots/pans because he was annoying and it was just easier to get them for him. Or maybe they didn't know he was crazy and just wanted to do something nice for their nephew. If he was being difficult with them, then that speaks to his character, if they were just being polite and accommodating, then it doesn't matter.

Don't they have his car, with the license plate visible, on video...circling the house three times minutes before the murders? How's he going to explain that away? He doesn't live anywhere near there and had no reason to be there at 4am.

Not to mention his phone pinging on their tower that night at 4 am or whatever. Fucking moron brought his phone to a killing...Or were his car and phone stolen that night but he never reported it?

I'm blushing!

Things she thought:

Sorry, Mrs. Kernodle but I've got a better party (for my career) to go to! ~ Anne Taylor.

Just a thought, and I'm no psychiatrist but Kohberger has an aversion to meat, does not eat it, wouldn't eat it, did not want to eat off pots and pans that had been used in the cooking of meat. He was not just a strict vegan but it's reported "The former aunt described Kohberger's food restrictions as "very, very weird" and "far beyond vegan." Has been reported by others. In jail he has requested a vegan diet.

Humans ARE 'meat'. Kohberger's last name ends in 'berger' (burger/meat). Does his strict veganism reveal a subconscious hatred of himself, 'KohBERGER'/ 'burger' who is 'meat'?

Well, that's my take on it. Any psychiatrists out there having this thought?

Just an observation.

^^Oh, FFS.

R128- I read somewhere (don't quote me on this) that Anne Taylor is the only qualified public defender for death penalty cases in Kootenoi Country. Which sounds both like a plausible reason for her withdrawing from the other case, and a provocative marketing campaign for a certain down-on-its-luck women's clothing line.

I really don't think his veganism is at play at all in this. He probably turned vegan because he was a former fat fuck, I think that's really all it is. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

This is a generalization, but of the vegans i know the ones who are most militant were often bullied in school and I imagine felt pretty defenseless. I think "saving the animals" has something to do with feeling helpless as a kid and sort of preyed upon by the bullies. Maybe they wish someone had rescued them? They feel a kinship with these hunted animals so they dedicate their lives to protecting them. Sometimes it feels like there is an underlying hatred of humanity there.

What R132 said.

Good lord, R133.

I was a vegan for a couple of years, it was a bit much. It's easy to stay thin when you follow a vegan diet. I've been vegetarian since college (20+ years now)- I did it because my friends were doing it, it was cheaper and healthier. It basically stuck ever since. Case closed. Absolutely nothing to do with saving animals or kinships with them being hunted for christ's sake

You have to be somewhat insufferable to be a diligent vegan. I suspect Brian was insufferable on many levels.

r134, I hear you. I've been a vegetarian for almost 35 years now so I'm coming from a relatively informed perspective. I'm just providing an observation of former friends/lovers who were especially hardcore about their veganism. This is just what I saw in them and I still think it's true.

IMHO hard-core animal rights activists (including the most annoying vrgans) and anti-abortion nutters have loads in common. They're all troubled souls who are trying to heal themselves by saving "innocents", and who have serious issues with regular humans, which is why they dont care who they hurt in pursuit of their goals. All probably due to past traumas they haven't dealt with.

Which has nothing to do with the Idaho murders or BK! I doubt he gives a rat's ass about either animals or humans.

Most animal rights activists are liberal and pro-gay. Anti-abortion activists are far right nuts who hate gays. Don't lump them together

R136- Thank you for blessing the world with "vergan."

You're welcome, R138. but don't thank me! Thank my goddamn phone and its "keyboard"!

Flip side of the same coin r137

[quote] Most animal rights activists are liberal and pro-gay.

Link.

Yes, Brigette Bardot is so pro-gay and liberal. lmao

I did not post that r142, but really? I don’t think Bridgette is representative of the typical animal rights activist. I’ve never even met someone who is into animal rights who leans right. But I’ve met a ton of left-leaning animal rights people.

Either way, I’m sure we can agree that extremists are all nuts, regardless of which side they fall on.

Brigitte Bardot was born in 1934 and is half crazy (if not whole crazy). And always was. I don't think you can compare her to modern-day left-leaners in America (or anywhere).

R143, Bo Derek is also a Republican. Many on the Right are animal rights activists. Get out of your bubble.

Oh dear. Though I live for these semantics sort of arguments on DL. For the record:

"... liberals are far more likely than moderates of conservatives to ditch meat or dairy. The poll found that 11 percent of liberals are vegetarian while 5 percent are vegan. Only 2 percent of convervatives are either vegan or vegetarian... "

Two percent is still a hell of a lot of people and the conservative vegans/vegetarians are probably very likely to be less sane than the garden variety liberal vegan/vegetarian, because it's more of a contradiction to their typical character.

He was vegan because he thought it would cure the “visual snow” and he posted at length over and over again about it. He was a “health reasons” vegan.

R147

And so now it looks as if the outcome of that is he will spend a long and healthy life in the graybar hotel. Oh well, these things don’t always work out like you hoped for.

You are truly rude r145.

Meat is murder!

R148 The joke's on you! he will never be able to smoke or get any sun, so who will look younger? He will!

Prisoners don't get an hour a day on a playground or something? Even death row ones did I thought. Geneva convention or some such.

IIRC, prisoners need to get at least 1 hour (out of 24) outside of their cells.

This is correct.

In white collar prisons, they are required to have access to 60 minutes a day of free-range, grass-pasture grazing.

Anyone who is vegan had mental issues.

If he's found guilty... putting him in Gen Pop, for life with no parole, would have to be the worst sentence, period.

Found a meme for Kohberger.

Posted on CDAN Tuesday:

Today's Blind Items - The Detective There is a private detective hanging out in the northwest. Actually, there are several, but, there is one that is not working for the defense or the one that is working for an insurance company. No, this other detective is actually working for a pair of documentary producers who want to see if there is an angle, other than the obvious. These producers specialize in offering alternatives to what everyone thinks are slam dunk cases. The investigator, and his team, probably believe the standard narrative. No one knows though. What everyone does know now though is that one of the parents offered up an offspring for sex for much of their tween years. And another parent sold parent/offspring naked videos. The question is whether the documentary will be finished and aired before trial. Will it sway a jury?

"Everybody does know" ? Who is this "everybody"?

Is this blind item suggesting the detective is digging up sexual dirt on the victims? Because that is really gross if true.

If it's an Entertainment Lawyer blind item then it is almost certainly untrue

I don't understand how this could make any difference? The victims could all be prostitutes, drug addicts, have only-fan accounts and hard-core porn backgrounds.... And.... that means it was ok for this psychopath to get into their house and stab them to death?

R161 is correct, anything posted by that CDAN creep is 99% likely to be bullshit.

However, since that "blind item" seems to be describing someone nosing around Idaho, looking for any nasty bullshit they can post on youtube rather than facts, there might be a rare grain of truth in the first part. But since he's always liked to post his own jerkoff fantasies about famous women being secret prostitutes, he obviously made up the bit about the poor murdered girl being "offered up". He wishes, the old perv.

^ Yep, he's obsessed with rape, abuse, and trafficking

Sanpaku eyes for sure. I could not stand him looking towards me. He looked like a walking red flag.

Saw that video this morning, the one at r165. I think we already knew that Xana and Ethan were killed after the other two, and that she fought back. The part about her fingers is gross, but probably accurate.

People from the scene said early on that the crime scene was 'chaotic' - I always believed that was Xana's room, left in shambles after she and Ethan tried to fight off their killer. Some of the furniture they removed a few weeks ago, from the house, had noticeable blood stains all over them. I believed these were from Xana's room.

The new item re Ethan's death and where he was found counters what the police reported though. Although I'm inclined to believe what was reported here.

From the video at R165 even though that coroner answered the interviewer's question 'were they found in beds?' as 'uhm, yes' the coroner did not specify 'all' were found in their beds, just answered the question, as 'yes, (SOME) were found in their bed. Was trying maybe to hold back information for the legal process of the courts to review. Same with the knife question, 'were these all puncture wounds?' the coroner's answer was again, not going into the detail of all the wounds but addressing the were they puncture wounds question, 'well it was a pretty large knife so really hard to call them puncture wounds, and they were definitely stabbing' and so she does not say there were NOT slash wounds just that the knife was too large to call them puncture wounds and stabbing wounds.

Correction:

" just that the knife was too large to call them puncture wounds and stabbing wounds" meaning 'and stabbing wounds is what was there, as if not puncture but stabbing wounds.

R159, now it means EVERYBODY on DATALOUNGE knows! Including you!

Did Xana’s mother name her after Xanax? The mother had multiple drug arrests.

Xanadu!

I believe so r171, based only on my own idiocy.

I'm still having trouble with the surviving roommate not calling 911 for 8 fucking hours when a melee/battle happening just a few feet away?? She heard every last bit of it. I bet her story has changed half a dozen times.

Apparently, it's taboo to criticize her on Reddit.

Go fuck yourself R174

Yeah r174, you *clearly* haven’t read the threads because you don’t understand the temperature on that topic here. May I suggest you start at the beginning, read it all as have most of us posting, then let us know if you’re still having…trouble.

All this is dying down, understandably, but there's what I think a new detail: Bryan was seen at the Idaho University student union and had stared at a number of women and made them uncomfortable - not breaking eye contact, that sort of thing.

Then this expert says that women have this special "instinct" about whether a person is dangerous and possibly might harm someone and they should report it.

But this guy was looking at women -- wouldn't men also have that "instinct" if some crazed lunatic was giving them intense or murderous glares as well?

Just the whole 4 minute news clip seemed strange. Imagine how cops would feel, especially at a university, if lots of girls started coming in and saying, "I have this great instinct and the way this particular guy stared at me made me think he's dangerous, so do something!" I assume that's what she's suggesting but what law do you break when you glare at someone? Don't autistic people do that all the time, whether it's sexual or not?

And his students at WSU complained about him being a jackass about grading their papers. Is that a red flag too? I guess I just don't understand what's going on with this clip, but it's a new clue that he'd been casing the joint (the Student Union) and it may not have been a case of him running into the Xana and Maddie as waitresses at the vegan restaurant (though that still seems likely) - oh and how did he find the waitresses on Instagram and then find out their roommate Kaylee was on there too?

Probably because everyone is on Instagram.

I wonder if the girls had their instagrams linked to the Mad Greek’s gram? Didn’t the girls do social media for the Mad Greek?

Maddie did the restaurant’s social media.

R174, it is bizarre. To know that she saw the guy and called her friends before police is outrageous. I read Ethan’s parents want an explanation. Any normal person would question her actions.

Men don’t require that instinct R177. Women are using it all day, every day.

R177 so the mad Greek is a vegan restaurant? Did not realize gyros and chicken skewers are vegan

I read that the Mad Greek was known for having the best vegan food around - though I don't know if it only served vegan food. I doubt it. Though if it was part of their reputation, they may have bragged that they use separate pans to prepare the vegan food, which wouldn't be difficult for a restaurant that served a lot of it. Or maybe Bryan quit worrying about it to that degree.

Someone at one of his jails announced they would not be making his food in specially bought pans. I think they said he was eating peanut butter sandwiches and cereal with almond milk - forgot where I read that. Don't know why I care. Wish they'd just give him gruel - some gross concoction of legumes and barley stirred together into a gross looking stew (is that what gruel is?)

R181 I bet there are men in street gangs and rough areas who learn how to avoid the worst of their lot using intuition. If not, they need to work on it:

"Men make up almost 80 per cent of all homicide victims recorded (and about 90% of the murderers are also male)"

It’s mostly not because a sketchy person has become fixated on them, though R184

Well, maybe. So men never lust for other men that they can't have and get violent about it? (though the hetero ones do that with women?) I would assume there are just as many gay psychopaths as straight ones - I mean Jeffrey Dahmer and that Gacy, etc.

And like if you're in a gang, you can fixate on one of the other gang members because you resent him because he has more power or has a higher status ?? Why ARE all these men killing other men?

Because men are inherently very violent compared to women.

Which always confuses me because women are supposed to be the "more emotional" ones. If men aren't emotional, why do let anger and violence take them over so much?

Anger is an emotion, R188.

If you can't imagine not calling the cops for 8 hours, I'm guessing you've never over-indulged on edibles or otherwise been super-intoxicated. No matter how perceptive you are normally, you're not necessarily going to trust your sensory input (while high) enough to call 911.

I would guess that the average Idaho College girl has better creep-detecting instincts than the average Idaho College boy, for what that's worth. Twice nothing is still nothing.

R186 You should read one of our many Jeff Dahmer threads. So many people said, "He's hot, I'd go home with him." Ha, not me, he came off like a fucking weirdo and his child molester specs didn't help.

There seems to be a LOT of off-the-record indicators that those girls notified Pi Beta Phi Sorority about what had happened, maybe as early as 8 a.m. on Sunday, and almost certainly by 10 a.m. The frat kids were at that house and around it. Whether Dylan was "petrified" or not, she's got a hell of a lot of explaining to do on the witness stand about that morning, and unless Kohberger pleads guilty, she WILL be the star witness of the whole trial. Bethany too is in hot water. It is inherently unbelievable that those girls slept through what happened. The frat kids came over to the house that morning, cleared drugs out of the house, and THEN called families and the cops. The crime scene is going to be shown to be so polluted with tampering that it just might afford Kohberger a way out of a conviction.

An attorney for the Goncalves family filed an appeal of the Judge's gag order three days ago on Friday, 02/03. It will be interesting, but most appellate courts wouldn't do anything on something like this for about 6 months, so it may likely be a waste of time (it's not like they could convincingly argue it's an emergency, either). The family will likely lose, anyway. There are lots of sound legal reasons to cut off the leaking of info about the case into the public arena (and stuff is getting leaked anyway). Primary is the concern to keep any jury untainted by trying the case in advance of a trial, in the press:

Where'd you hear all that, R193?

I've been reading and watching about the case everywhere I could find. Except Reddit. There is a LOT of info out about this case that is not formally part of the State's Affidavit. Lots of gossipy junk, yes, but also a lot of pretty hardheaded examination of what the people have said and deduced about about this case.

And how did the frat kids and sorority girls clear out all of the so called drugs from the house with the bodies in there? Did they just ignore all the carnage, and calmly step around the pools of blood? to get to some bags of weed and coke. I....don't think so.

You mean to tell us r193 that bunch of young kids took the time to put the drugs ahead of calling the police after seeing their friends slashed to death, not knowing if the killer or killers were still in the vicinity waiting to carve up more victims.

They should all be ok

R197, the point you raise IS a huge puzzlement. But there is no doubt in my mind, based on things relatives and friends of the deceased have said, that the killings were known to quite a few people before the police were notified. Indeed, how could somebody have gone into those rooms and removed anything (flushing it down toilets is the most obvious way of getting rid of it), but then then the whole grisly story just doesn't add up. Why weren't there bloody footprints everywhere, how could there have only been one found? People have said that the carnage would have guaranteed that the house would have been reeking of the smell of blood and other things, how did those 2 girls not notice this? Where were they really, was Dylan on the 2nd floor, where it seems that the affidavit indicates she saw the dude in black and a mask go past her, or was she not on the ground floor after all, like everyone speculated to begin with? How could Kohberger have possibly done all of this in 14 minutes, it seems nuts to think that. Did he have an accomplice? Was he the accomplice, getaway driver? The cops know the answers to all this, or most of it, certainly. As far as a trial is concerned, Dylan is going to have to explain a lot of this stuff, on the stand, and being young, and scared, and just a defenseless college girl are not going to shield her from having to answer the questions. Based on what I have seen in various places about this case, it seems clear that the townsfolk of that town are pretty convinced the scene was overrun with college kids before the cops were summoned. We'll see how it turns out. I doubt any evidence is getting released until the preliminary hearing in June (unless it gets postponed, which wouldn't be a big surprise). -R195

R199 Most every issue you're going on about have been answered several times. I think there's a lot of bored internet detectives out there who stir shit just to keep talking and speculating.

That Dylan bitch just calmly waited around until Bryan had done his killing, took a nap, called her pals and removed her drugs, and then finally called the cops. Cunt! She’s really as guilty than the guy they say did it, who has BDF for days!

You would have to put a bag over that crazy eyed bony faced psycho to enjoy the potential prize meat.

Some woman has fallen in love with Bryan, has been writing him letters, and posting on social media how they're the perfect match (she's studied his astrological chart yada yada)

Wonder if they can marry and he'll get conjugal visit rights?

Starts at minute 6:30

[quote]An attorney for the Goncalves family filed an appeal of the Judge's gag order three days ago ...

Always the Gonçalves family!

No, R203, Idaho does not allow conjugals.

I want to know what the person who continues to victim blame DH is motivated by.

DH? Her name is Mortensen. I'm not "continuing," nor am I "blaming" her. I simply don't believe any narrative that says she was too terrified to do anything for 8 hours, from inside a house where 4 people have been savagely slaughtered to death. If she were truly that scared, WHY didn't she call 911 from inside her locked bedroom? I'm not buying the 'stricken deer in the headlights' claims. I feel the same way about Bethany. I don't believe she slept through what happened. A former tenant of the ground floor has said that you could hear people moving around on the 3 floor from the bottom, and everything else that happened all over the house. A story has been concocted for those girls, just as the police have put out a pretty creative version of nearly all the circumstances about this case so far. Those 2 girls will be raked over the coals when this comes to trial.

[quote] I would guess that the average Idaho College girl has better creep-detecting instincts than the average Idaho College boy, for what that's worth.

What?

Who said that they were doing Mad Greek’s social media?

R206, that girl is a fucking idiot who should be blamed. These true crime weirdos who post here and on Reddit have shit for brains. Most places who report this story have many comments just like yours. It makes no sense that someone sees a killer, hears screaming, waits 8 hours and first calls their friends. I have zero sympathy for that girl and if she were a ‘victim’ she’d be dead now too. All these people, maybe with the exception of Ethan’s family, seem very strange.

You sound super fun, R209!

I am so glad we have gatekeeping True Crime Cunts here!

The Mad Greek said it, r208.

Did you Google? The information is very easy to find.

Also, do you plan to contribute anything or just go post-by-post talking shit like you usually do?

The Mad Greek is not vegan at all

Maybe it was just known for its one vegan speciality: Keira's Amazing Vegan under "Pizza and Calzone"

I mean this was small town Idaho - so having one vegan dish might have made it known for having the option, when maybe nobody else in town did. Isn't Moscow like 26,000 people? Pullman WA not much bigger?

So they're not going to have the vegan restaurants of San Francisco or Portland.

I glanced at the menu and they have several vegan options. Falafels, pita bread, and hummus are all vegan, and there's probably a vegan salad on there somewhere.

Yeah, falafel and hummus are vegan. Now I feel like eating falafel.

Can someone please tell me how to block a poster? Thank you.

R217 Hit the crossed-out figure next to FF.

Yes, the lined-out figure. It can also be used as trolldar, by clicking on the "ignored" button on the heading. You will see many of that poster's posts r217.

Useful feature, and it's reversible. It can slow down scrolling through threads.

[quote]How could Kohberger have possibly done all of this in 14 minutes, it seems nuts to think that.

Actually, very easily. He could have easily been in and out of there in well under 10 minutes. It would have maybe taken a minute or two to kill the girls upstairs - heavy stabbing and slashing doesn't take that long, a few well-placed stab wounds would have killed either. He then booked it downstairs, and took a few minute to kill X and E. That part might have taken longer, given the fight they put up, but still a minute or two would do it.

It's not like he was standing there, telegraphing his intentions - he came in with a mission to kill, so he came into the bedrooms stabbing like a piston. He didn't want any survivors to ID him, or make too much noise. He took them out quickly.

R220 He simply mustered up all the brutality and cowardice he had and did it quickly.

Exactly r221. If you're gonna go in and do it, do it fast and with everything you have to get it done. Strange thoughts for the rest of us, but not for someone in his position.

Yep R222, I think it happens really fast, like the Darlie Routier case, she could easily stab two sleeping children in 3 minutes or whatever time she had. The element of surprise adds a lot to it. The sleeping girls could be dispatched easily and the awake victims are stunned and don't react quickly. Count out just three minutes and you'll see it's a pretty long time.

Add in a few minutes for yukking it up with those callous bitches Dylan and Bethany.

Taking some selfies with them R224, and then bolting.

I’m happy that DM and the unattractive roommate survived.

I hope both of these young ladies get serious therapy and THRIVE. I really do. I want to see both of these girls soar, and do well in life.

This POS killed 4 innocent students and destroyed the lives of so many. I hope with every ounce of me, that they overcome this, and live happy, healthy lives.

DM is the unattractive roommate, R226.

Also, MARY!!!

I think Dylan is very pretty, prettier than the blondes.

R227, you think so?

I think DM is the most attractive roommate who survived, while Xana was the most attractive of the girls who did not.

Kaylee seemed to be the sweetest one out of all of them, & from what I’ve gleaned via social media, her kind and sweet nature shined through her tanning spray, bleached hair extensions and false eyelashes.

I don’t know what exactly DM saw and heard, or why she didn’t do certain things or why she did do certain things. I’m just happy she’s alive. The other girl, too.

I have decided to put a security door on my bedroom. Yes I have an alarm. I have a private security patrol, too, and everyone in our neighborhood has cameras. But my bedroom and bathroom are en suite. So if I put a security door, steel enforced on the entrance to my bedroom, I will be fine. It's on the 2nd floor with windows in front, facing the street. A big heavy door with a good lock on it, from the inside, will become my safe room if there's a break in. I also have pepper spray. No guns.

When my dad worked midnights back in the 70's, my Ma had an aerosol can of Easy Off Oven Cleaner on her nightstand. She said she couldn't manage a gun, but she knew how to handle a spray can. She planned to use her cigarette lighter to make a torch out of it and burn the burglars.

And quite possibly burn down the entire house, as well.

I'm sure glad nothing happened, R231.

[quote]She planned to use her cigarette lighter to make a torch out of it and burn the burglars.

It works well on movies.

I’m just grateful that social media didn’t exist when I was in college during the late 80s. 😬

[quote]It makes no sense that someone sees a killer, hears screaming, waits 8 hours and first calls their friends.

She didn't hear screaming. She didn't he was a killer.

People who don't even know the basic facts get so emotional and indignant when someone disagrees with them.

* she didn't KNOW he was a killer

[quote] So if I put a security door, steel enforced on the entrance to my bedroom, I will be fine

Oh, honey, don’t bother.

Don’t nobody wanna go in your bedroom.

R231 I have the master bedroom at the top of the stairs, I have some cool knives my guy gave me but I always have a candle burning. If I ever look down and see some creep come in the door, that fucking blasting hot candle is raining down on him and I'm jumping off my balcony. I think oven spray is good too, we all saw Extremities.

Prime is finally off so we can all pile in. Will we get mych work done once the trial gets underway? So distracting.

Dylan will be torn to shreds. She better pray he pleads guilty. The defense will have a field day and the dumb fraus making excuses for her letting her friends bleed out will receive a major wake up call once it goes to trial.

Are you a Bryan Kohberger fanboi who's obsessing over Dylan to try to take the focus off the fact that Bryan is a mass murderer? Why does it matter how she reacted, he's the one who killed them

Obviously Dylan was an accomplice.

Kohberger fired at WSU as a teaching assistant, had been warned time and again re sexist behavior towards female students, and was investigated by the University, and then canned, about one month after the murders. Carried here below and on NewsNation, and in quite a few online news stories, including The Independent, MSN, etc. Guy had a problem with women, obviously.

Who is this netball obsessing over Dylan and not the actual murderer???

Seriously, whenever a man commits a horrible crime, this shrieking nutcase finds some woman in the vicinity, and starts screaming that she needs to be pilloried and horsewhipped. Never anything about the actual perpetrator.

Authorities in at least two Pennsylvania counties where Bryan Kohberger attended college, have searched their cold case files, looking for links that could connect those cases to the suspect in the Idaho college murders.

So Dylan didn't realize he was a killer, but was in a "frozen shock state" upon seeing him in the hall? Can't have it both ways. Such bullshit how people are inventing narratives to protect her from scrutiny.

This bitch is hiding something.

I wonder if this coming out has anything to do with the families disputing the extent of the gag order.

Oh I was referring to the recent news about Bryan being fired from his TA job after treating women (and maybe all the students) unfairly and being an ass to professors, etc., in my last post at R247

Who is this little punk? He’s a fucking loser druggy who somehow stumbled into a graduate program. Where does the arrogance come from? I can’t believe he IMMEDIATELY started showing his ass in grad school / his TA position.

From the comment section on one of Ashleigh Banfield's videos about the news that Bryan was being criticized about his job performance at WSU:

"I find it intriguing how on Oct 21 he received an email that he wasn’t meeting expectations and coincidentally on that same night, Buddy the dog’s life was brutally taken with a blade 3 miles from where the murders ended up happening on Nov 13..."

Now I'm wondering if moving the car back was the first step in permanently getting out of Dodge. If nothing else, getting dropped as a TA gave him a good excuse for it. If he had been teaching 20 hours/week, he would have lost his full tuition waiver and a roughly $16k stipend, plus medical and dental benefits.

So, did the stress of knowing his free ride was about to end precipitate his rampage, or was this the murder version of someone deciding to take a hotel room's coffee maker, blow dryer, and all the towels because they had no intention of ever returning—never stopping to think that their credit card was on file?

He was just another asshole who blamed women for all of his problems and challenges in life.

I have zero sympathy for this POS, however, I also recognize that many young men have been radicalized online, in the name of an objective, that blames women for all challenges men face as they’re navigating through life.

What’s ironic, is that this type of indoctrination and radicalization into INCEL culture, makes life for young men so much harder, while never addressing that the reasons behind not being socially accepted by women, and not underscoring that incels aren’t really accepted by men who are their peers, too.

Being socially awkward isn’t a sin. There’s nothing wrong with being socially awkward. But if you suffer from shyness, or have a difficult time getting along with others?

Look INWARD.

Understand that it is YOU who must adjust to others.

And if you choose to not adjust or fit in?

Then fucking good for you!

Go at it from your own, unique perspective and succeed in spite of it.

But the moment you decide to blame others for your issues, without taking an ounce of responsibility, well, that’s when you lose the plot.

YOU are at minimum, 50% or more, responsible for your outcomes in YOUR life, not a group of people who have the right to not want to spend time with you, or who do not want to fuck you.

Incels have been scammed by this bullshit narrative. And plenty of these guys drawn to incel culture are very intelligent, yet they cannot figure out that they’re being manipulated via mainstream, counter culture propaganda.

Sad.

R 252, except for too many commas, that was a great post.

He seems to be a lifelong fuckup. Too bad he didn’t have the good sense to have low self-esteem. That might have made him keep his head down and try harder to get along.

I guess this particular graduate program doesn’t do in-person interviews of applicants?

It’s hard to believe he could keep the crazy under wraps in an in-person interview.

And isn’t it a known issue that criminology programs attract psychos? You’d think they’d screen for that.

I guess they will now.

It’s gotta be depressing to look like a psychopath before you’ve even done anything awful yet.

I definitely think he was involved with the dog skinning. But why did he spare Kaley's dog?

Murphy was too smart for him.

Chapin family fed up with Dylan's mind games:

Agree that Dylan should have called 911. Maybe she was afraid of being labeled a “Karen”? There are consequences to telling women to just shut up already.

This sort of trashy, rural culture (Moscow frat culture) is exactly where you find people using the “Karen” language.

New report: Dylan yelled at them to be quiet at 4am (when the murders were taking place.) She thought the masked guy was just one of the partiers!

Our Ashleigh Banfield comes through again (yeah I know she's just the news reader but still...)

I wonder if she said: "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

R261 she doesn’t give her source. How does she know all this? Without a source I’m skeptical. Needs something to validate this.

NewsNation/Ashley Banfield doesn't seem much better than a tabloid. The source for him being fired from his TA position was a TikTok video made by someone with no connection to the case or to either university. It was picked up and rerun by several news stations before anyone flagged it. This is the letter she showed as "proof" in her video.

Is this a similar source for all our other details -- that he went upstairs to kill Maddie and Kaylee first, and then killed Ethan in the doorway, and fought with Xana and she had piecings on her hands where she tried to stop the knife? And that he'd been in the neighborhood with his cellphone pinging or whatever, ten or twelve times recently - and that he'd eaten at the Mad Greek?

A bunch of stuff came out from somewhere - then the strict gag order. Then the parents made a fuss about how stringent the gag order was (a Banfield guest 'sleuth' guy found an employee of the Mad Greek who worked there when Bryan came in and at that time, Maddie and Xana worked there, but when the sleuth talked to him, he'd already quit)

Now, after the parents complained the gag order was too broad, we get this about Bryan being reprimanded (and that list Ashleigh had was very specific - which dates he was reprimanded and then when he was finally officially fired as TA at the end of the semester) -- and one of the reprimands was the same day Buddy the dog was killed with a knife.... oh loads of stuff.

Is it all suspect? Or just the latest bit about her yelling? (we'd already heard she'd opened her door three times - I mean how did we get all that granular detail already?) I guess I just assume we have the same type leaks -- lots of reporters swarming to get their few minutes on tv -- didn't Nancy Grace set up a desk outside the murder house lol?? -- I know it's not funny but it's like the "ambulance chasers" you hear about. Daily Mail probably has 20 people assigned to Moscow/Pullman.

I withheld my judgment about this guy’s motives until I saw the teaching assistant firing over sexist treatment. This guy is an incel to the max.

And completely agree with R252. If you suck at social situations, you find a way to grow by facing your fears and learning appropriate ways to interact and understand people. Not becoming entitled and dehumanizing women. As a woman I grew up with social anxiety but I didn’t teach myself to objectify and dehumanize others to feel better about myself. I put myself into more and more social situations as a form of exposure and observed, listened, and learned. Small talk is not the terrifying thing it once was to me years ago, although still draining. I developed the skills, though. This guy (and other incels with social awkwardness) skipped all of that self-reflection and took the misogyny koolaid as a shortcut. What a waste of a human life.

[quote]I wonder if she said: "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

Can you motherfuckers, please, die quieter!!!!

Was grad school the first time he’s lived on his own?

JMMMMAYY!

R260, your post is one of the ABSOLUTELY BEST comments that I’ve read in MANY years.

Thank you.

Here, specifically, is what is spot on, regarding your comment, R260:

“ Maybe she was afraid of being labeled a “Karen”? There are consequences to telling women to just shut up already.”.

[quote]I withheld my judgment about this guy’s motives until I saw the teaching assistant firing over sexist treatment. This guy is an incel to the max.

Did you read the post above yours? More than likely that letter was a fake.

Since he only started at WSU in September, October seems very early to be firing him from his position as TA. Without even getting through a full semester? He would probably have had to do something illegal/dangerous to his students to be fired that fast. Normally there's a whole series of procedures to go through, especially since firing him as TA would have implications for him continuing on in the PhD programme. So, consider me sceptical.

I’ll consider you anything you want as long as you keep spelling it programme.

I love our euro spellings around here.

R274 I guess I should have written 'Colour me sceptical' ;)

R273 The Ashleigh Banfield list (that may have come from a letter?) - or at least the one I saw on her show - said he was fired in December when the semester was ending. He was called in for several meetings and even an "improvement plan" meeting before finally being let go - after all the classes were done for the Fall semester.

I think he may have been spoken to as early as three or four weeks into the semester, in September, but they gave him three or four meetings to discuss things before making the decision to axe him - finally official December 20? something like that. After the murders, November 13, he went back to the university and people remarked on his changed (improved) demeanor. But I guess there were enough problems to still get rid of him, as a TA anyway, and maybe that meant he had to quit due to tuition or whatever.

[quote]Agree that Dylan should have called 911.

I may or may not have been aware of a quadruple murder taking place feet away. And I may or may not have seen a masked intruder. But those bitches were finally quiet and I was tired as hell. so I fell right asleep.

[quote]I wonder if she said: "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

Shut the fuck up AND DIE!

Being a TA isn't really a job someone is "hired" for. It's a part of one's responsibilities as a student in a PhD program. I don't they can just "fire" someone from a TA position without kicking them out of their academic program. I'm also skeptical.

It isn't a requirement at WSU. There, it's a carrot dangled before prospective students. But it is subject to regular review, and the department could boot him from his assistantship while he continues on as a PhD student.

Seems like his hold on sanity was crumbling. No wonder he made so many mistakes planning and committing the murders.

He may have been on probationary status for his assistantship, like many other (most?) new employees. Also, his grades may not have been up to snuff either and it became apparent to faculty that he could not handle the program. It's much kinder to cut someone loose early. He had a an MA already. I wonder if they kept a closer eye on him since he didn't complete a Master's thesis in Pennsylvania, so he was on probation both academically and for his employment as TA.

He seems like a very substandard candidate. I wonder how he finagled his way into the program?

He had a teacher in Pennsylvania who was exulting that he was the best student she ever had and the only one she ever recommended for a PhD program even though he hadn't completed his thesis. (this was Covid so almost all their interaction was via Zoom or Facetime)

Wonder how she feels about now. -- saw this on Banfield or something way at the beginning when he was just identified. But somewhere on tv or youtube.

That story about his teacher in Pennsylvania was mentioned here in one of the earlier threads. She seemed very young and fairly clueless. She went on and on about how great he was, even though she'd never met him in person.

R284- That professor, though apparently highly respected in the true crime community (whatever that means), is not an academic by any stretch. Her books are pulpy, true crime drama narratives (though nominally nonfiction) and her claim to fame is corresponding with someone called the BTK killer in prison. PhD programs can be competitive, but there are state school programs where the financial trade-off of getting free TAs in exchange for free tuition is much more balanced in the school's favor than the students'.

i am more curious as to how his professor at DeSales (the pulpy true crime writer) got an academic teaching position with absolutely no academic research credentials, real-world experience in criminology, or peer-reviewed papers.

R266- When the woman who made the TikTok video, allegedly showing the corner of the letter firing Kohberger, was asked what the source for the letter was, her answer was, "the four victims."

Highly detailed fabrications are completely possible for someone desperate for attention, and with no other way of getting it except fabricating things.

Yeah, it could be, but it doesn't make any difference to the case - or not much. Too circumstantial. So what that he sucked as a TA and graded girls differently and was let go. It's not even 'good' circumstantial evidence. So again, who cares if it's real or fabricated?

[quote]Her books are pulpy, true crime drama narratives (though nominally nonfiction) and her claim to fame is corresponding with someone called the BTK killer in prison.

That’s Katherine Ramsland. I believe R284 was referring to Michelle Bolger.

[quote]before making the decision to axe him

Axe him what?

R289- You are totally right.🤦🏻 Thanks for making the correction.

If anyone is basing anything on a fucking tik tok video....I doubt they're correct.

Our muse Miss Ashleigh Banfield is no TikTokker!

I hate when four students are found dead.

Kohberger is no Pastor Davey.

He ain’t even Davey Wavey-level.

Aww the good old days of Pastor Davey when the motive was just new pussy. We could all understand offing your nagging wife and even having Etsy Nanny in your corner. This guy just sucks.

Lots of details confirmed (many details from court documents) in the documentary linked below.

And tonight, Ashleigh Banfield said two pretty good sources, NewsNation and I think People magazine, reporting that multiple photos of one of the three female victims were found on Bryan's phone.

Anyway, the documentary link, and below the Ashleigh link, if anybody's still interested.

Banfield, 2/22/23

Oh and the documentary above was better than I expected. 30 minutes long, done by "King 5 Seattle" tv station. Posted 3 days ago.

Ashleigh updated tonight that it was Maddie (one of the two girls upstairs that he killed first, before killing the boy and girl Xana on the second floor.)

He had liked every one of Maddie's Instagram posts and had downloaded some of her photos onto his phone (not actually taken the pictures himself).

He only liked a couple of Kaylee's, though he followed both girls on Instagram.

R299

That is major!

He’s just a run of mill murdering incel it seems.

So Maddie, the girl from a troubled home that the Goncalves family basically adopted as a sister ended up being the primary target that led to them all getting killed? Hmmm, that might be hard for Papa Goncalves to absorb.

I really wonder if he just majorly screwed up, maybe he just intended to rape her or kill her only and it snowballed with Kaylee being there unexpectedly and then xana being awake. But surely he couldn’t be stupid enough to think he could go into a house filled with people and just violently murder one of them and leave.

[quote]Hmmm, that might be hard for Papa Goncalves to absorb.

Yes, I imagine that will be a bitter pill to swallow. But maybe he'll just put all of his energy into the [italic]Our Girl Kaylee, America's Heroine[/italic] fantasy that was put forth in one of their last interviews prior to the gag order.

If anyone missed it, upon learning that the sheath was found on the bed, Ma G had a revelation that Kaylee had intentionally taken it knowing that it would identify her killer. Pa responded with something to the effect of: "Yup, the checkmate moment. Our girl's checkmate moment."

He was stalking and I know the defense will try to act like oh, not. But oh, yes.

It makes sense to me that he’d be fixated on Maddie. She had those vulnerable wide-set eyes that make a person appear innocent and needing protection. She was more childlike-appearing and passive-seeming than the substantial Kaylee.

Sorry, I know this has been publicly debunked, but I can’t shake the vibe of incipient lesbian couple between Maddie and Kaylee. They were hiding in plain sight. I don’t care that they both had boyfriends, that BFF girls pose that way for photo shoots now, etc. There was something more than friendship going on with those two.

Not that Kohberger ever had a chance, anyway, but there was never going to be a man coming between them.

[quote]But surely he couldn’t be stupid enough to think he could go into a house filled with people and just violently murder one of them and leave.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he was indeed that stupid.

He probably stalked the house enough to realize Maddie was on the third floor and would be alone because Kaylee had moved out, but then wasn't smart enough to watch the house a little bit to see if anyone else was awake, or check their socials where he would have probably found out Kaylee was back for the weekend, and he didn't pay enough attention to realize Ethan's SUV was there.

Judge and the cops aren't doing such a hot job of enforcing that protective order, seemingly.

I still want to know how the girls got on his radar to begin with.

I doubt he only @knew” them through socials.

Do we seek out things to covet?

It does seem like the entire state of Idaho has collectively decided "fuck the gag order" because we're getting a ton of leaks. It's possible we might find out it's all b.s. though.

[quote]Sorry, I know this has been publicly debunked, but I can’t shake the vibe of incipient lesbian couple between Maddie and Kaylee.

Oh, FFS.

Maddie was conventionally better looking than Kaylee. I never understand why everyone thought Kaylee was the main target. She was a chubby, bleached blonde with massive amounts of makeup. Take the make up off and she was frumpy. If he went in with intent, then it might have been to kidnap Maddie. It’s still bizarro, but this entire case has been.

This guy is such a massive POS.

I hope he gets found guilty, sent to Gen Pop, & survives getting shanked, to the point of experiencing near death, so he can experience what it’s like to have some psycho attack him out of the blue and unexpectedly.

Fuck him. 🖕🏽

I agree that he likely went in intending only to assault Maddie. Kaylee had come back for the weekend, he likely didn't know that she was there, almost certainly would not have expected to find 2 girls in Maddie's bed, and maybe had no idea Ethan would be in a room one floor down. It's pretty astonishing that a neophyte could have killed 4 people with a knife, and none of them got away from him during the melee.

I AM Maddie!

Casted.

One of the qualities of sociopaths is they lack judgement. They are unable to see themselves as others see them and have a lack of understanding. Poor insight. Kohberger wasn't 'stupid'. He was a sociopath. If you ever want to read an interesting book read Mask of Sanity. Hervey Cleckley (author of The Mask of Sanity)

Hervey Cleckley’s List of Psychopathy and Sociopath Symptoms:

1. Considerable superficial charm and average or above-average intelligence.

2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.

3. Absence of anxiety or other “neurotic” symptoms. Considerable poise, calmness and verbal facility.

4. Unreliability, disregard for obligations, no sense of responsibility, in matters of little and great import.

5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.

6. Antisocial behavior which is inadequately motivated and poorly planned, seeming to stem from an inexplicable impulsiveness.

7. Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior.

8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.

9. Pathological egocentricity. Total self-centeredness and an incapacity for real love and attachment.

10. General poverty of deep and lasting emotions.

11. Lack of any true insight; inability to see oneself as others do.

12. Ingratitude for any special considerations, kindness, and trust.

13. Fantastic and objectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when not drinking. Vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks for facile entertainment.

14. No history of genuine suicide attempts.

15. An impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life.

16. Failure to have a life plan and to live in any ordered way (unless it is for destructive purposes or a sham).

IF Bry was intending only a sexual assault on one girl, wouldn't he have HAD to be spying on them that night, following them around? Or was he just sitting someplace, in his car or otherwise, close to the King St. house, watching the house and waiting for them to return?

I wonder how long ago those photos on his cell phone were put on there. Did he move from PA to Washington and go to WSU to gain access to Maddy? I personally think he intended on murdering them or just her from the get go. His study asking criminals how they selected their targets - and how they felt as they committed the crimes says as much as far as I'm concerned. Premeditated.

[quote]I never understand why everyone thought Kaylee was the main target.

Because one parent was on tv every day tirelessly pushing that narrative.

Sure, he would occasionally add a half-assed disclaimer that because the FBI and police were denying him the carte blanche he believed he was owed, he couldn’t say that with 100% certainty. But then he’d immediately follow that by saying he had his own private investigator who was filling him in on everything.

The point he was intent on making was that Kaylee and Madison’s wounds did not match. Our Girl Kaylee had “big, open gouges” denoting anger and targeting, while, I guess, Our Girl Maddie was just delicately poked while she slept. He used language like that in every interview to be sure that everyone knew that Kaylee was #1. And it worked.

I can see him being attracted to Madison more than Kaylee. Kaylee had a bossy demeanor, if you watch the police body cam footage during the noise complaint.

I definitely believe Madison was a closeted lez

I believe you’re a moron R322.

Where did they confirm that the photos on his phone were of Maddie? I don't see anything noting her specifically. The news report just noted it was one of the three murdered girls. Ashley Banfield broadly hinted it was Maddie.

R313? This may shock you, but sometimes not everything is about how women rank against each other in looks. Yes, even if they're "chubby" or "frumpy".

Another thing pointed out on Banfield show last night: the first of the twelve times Bryan was in the neighborhood of the murder house as in August. (he had just moved to Pullman to go to school that semester). I think the theory that he saw Maddie at the Mad Greek, perhaps in August, may be correct. And he may have followed her home that night after she got off work.

R324 Last night there was a brief video posted of Ashleigh Banfield and she specifically said it was Maddie; that though Bryan followed both girls on Instagram - he had only "liked" two of Kaylee's posts -- while he had liked every single one of Maddie's. And he had multiple photo of Maddie downloaded on his phone - but none of Kaylee. I can't find the video now of the mess of NewsNation videos but I distinctly remember it - it was about 2 minutes long, and Ashleigh said it was a 'unpdate' to her earlier interview of some expert with sources - who said he knew which girl it was but didn't want to say but he thought it was obvious which one if you'd been following the case. (which I thought was weird because I have been following it!) Ashleigh may not have known either -- but a while later, came back with a video naming Maddie, so maybe she set out to find out who it was, since the guy clearly knew.

* sheesh sorry for the umpteen typos in R326. -- first time Bryan was in the murder house neighborhood WAS in August -- I can't find the video OUT of the mess of NewsNation videos (though it was last night -- maybe they could have taken it down?) -- and "unpdate" should be "update"

I probably still missed some errors. Sorry.

I watched the same video, r326. Found it.

"But surely he couldn’t be stupid enough to think he could go into a house filled with people and just violently murder one of them and leave."

He was stupid enough to bring his cell phone along, so yes. IMHO he really was that stupid.

Maybe he was book-smart, but I don't even know about that.

He had to know Ethan and Kaylee were there because their cars were too. There is zero chance he missed those, in spite of his idiocy.

This photo of Kohberger looks like the following post I will put up because I can't figure out how to get both together.

This thing:

Yeah, it would be great if the trash of this world could police itself instead of letting its offspring become spree killers.

R317, thank you so much for posting this.

People who aren’t in law enforcement and/or who aren’t involved in forensic psychology, just do NOT understand what and whom they are dealing with, when an actual psychopath is in their midst.

I believe most people would be horrified if they were able to see how people they’re close to or casually acquainted with, act behind the scenes, when no one else is watching.

REAL psychopaths are usually rare, but they are out there, and some of us know one right now, and haven’t a clue.

Fortunately, most psychopaths are not as smart as they think they are, and are usually sniffed out and caught, because they just cannot help fucking up, due to their lack of impulse control, and (thankfully), modern technology/surveillance.

Yes, infringement on our privacy sucks, but when it comes down to tracking down real predators, I’m willing to give some privacy up, as I myself, am not on the wrong side of the law, and most of the population isn’t, either.

Safety of society FIRST.

It’s a shame it got this far with this asshole, and I’m genuinely sorry that these poor kids died as a result of an unchecked psychopath, however, at least he was pinned Dow downed and caged, before attacking again, which he would have inevitably done so, had he not been apprehended.

BIG props to FBI & MPD for working together and getting this asshole behind bars.

Yep. There are some really shitty cops out there, and thankfully, there are some really good LEOs, too.

Please excuse my typos @ R334.

Y’all know what I mean.

LOL!

R334 Thank you for appreciating my post of 317. I read Mask of Sanity years ago and it’s quite an eye opener. When I read of Kohberger following those kids on Instagram and that he sent them messages like, ‘hi, how are you’ I knew of such messages. I’ve gotten a few and it made me back off Instagram, though I am not on in any capacity but professional. I always delete those comments and block the senders but I saw how just being ‘out there’ can be a real problem. My personal info is not out there, thank god.

I am the one who posted that pic of Kohberger and that funhouse pic from a NJ amusement park. It’s not meant to be funny. I see it as his warped inside cracked self, and I find him frightening. I know that to some sounds ludicrous but I really do.

R336, please humbly allow me to affirm something for you…

Psychopaths like BK EASILY find and target potential victims on social media.

It doesn’t matter if the victims are male or female, a real psychopath will study BOTH via social media.

Interestingly enough, some, like BK, will become optimally physically fit, in order to game for any and all obstacles.

This is why Bryan was able to pull these murders off. He gamed the odds to his favor. He lost weight, became agile and went as far as engaging in boxing lessons, all in the quest to dominate anyone standing in the way of his objective: finding his perfect victim, and murdering her.

BK is absolutely frightening. But it’s better to have the ability to identify a fucked up person BEFORE they strike, and take measures against falling victim to them, than not.

People, particularly women, need to understand that there are men out there who they have no idea exist, who are monitoring their social media and online activities, all in efforts to eventually bring great and/or fatal harm to them. This is also true for some men who might also fall victims to these pieces of excrement.

Be aware. Know what and who you’re dealing with. Be skeptical. Be VERY skeptical.

It’s OK, if it saves your life, and/or the lives of your loved ones.

The wit and wisdom button doesn’t work for me but for your post: 👍

Aww, shucks!

Thanks, R338. ❤️

R337, your post made my skin crawl, but in a good way. I feel way too many of us are still way too trusting, both with social media and personal safety.

"Sorry, I know this has been publicly debunked, but I can’t shake the vibe of incipient lesbian couple between Maddie and Kaylee."

They were definitely soul sisters from childhood. I wonder if the psycho killer found their relationship to be erotic, and he actually targeted both, having clearly studied and followed them obsessively.

BTW, I had a similar childhood friend (except that we were both boys). We were inseparable through age 20 and slept in each others' beds together. Lots of cuddling, but no sex - despite my aspirations. He had a girlfriend in high school, but it was understood that we were like twins, and our parents treated each of us like their sons. Small town, 1980. Only a few people suspected that we were a gay couple and it was sort of a joke. His creepy priest would try to seduce us. I was a year older and went away to college. He'd visit and stay in my dorm room on weekends, sometimes with his girlfriend, whom I adored. The plan was for them to transfer to my university and all rent a house together. I finally came out to them. There were absurd attempts to find me a boyfriend. He died in a horrific accident at age 21. It was a fluke that I wasn't with him. 40+ years later, it still feels like half of me is gone. I feel so sad for the parents of those kids.

Get a blog R337. You sound creepy.

Just when you thought YouTubers couldn’t get crazier… a Bryan was trying to frame a soldier using the fact that he was a parachuter who could have landed on the third floor of the residence. I can’t even with this one.

"The meta-analytical results obtained allow us to estimate the prevalence rate of psychopathy in the general adult population at 4.5%."

I kept seeing references that estimated on about 1% but I clearly remembered researcher Robert Hare saying that a good estimate is about 4%. Not all will kill - a lot of CEO's and also surgeons are psychopaths. Excellent career choices for them (in case one of you is listening)

R316- Despite being a dewy 34 (I know! We can't believe it either.), I'm afraid you're talent is just to profound to convince America that you're a simple Idaho sorority sister. Might I suggest the role of "Weathered (yet nubile!) Oak Tree behind Nancy Grace"?

*too profound.

Regarding the notion that he was a sociopath. Not saying he wasn’t, but I have never seen anyone characterize him as “considerably charming”. He put everyone off. No one liked him. He was an incel.

And, of course, a piece of shit who needs a grease fire desperately.

There was a murder that happened in Queens, NY. A woman was murdered in her kitchen while her 12-year old son was on an upper floor of their home. Either he was asleep or had headphones on, gaming. Poor kid was hauled out by the police, who suspected HIM. (Many genius online sleuths suspected him, too.)

Her lover was the murderer.

R347, I'd guess that he was somewhere on the autism spectrum, in addition to being a psychopath.

And that's why psychiatric diagnoses can be based on "Something like 8 out of 12 characteristics on the following list", instead of being straightforward. People can have a personality disorder and have a mood disorder or an autism disorder at the same time, or all three, which is why diagnosing mental illness is so difficult and variable.

Yes, R349. Plenty of psychopaths are complete oafs.

I think the key characteristic is a lack of empathy. An incapacity for loving other people - or even considering them worthy of respect as a human being.

I could be wrong, but the level of a different trait - sadism - is what leads some psychopaths to enjoy torture and murder, and others to be satisfied just to lie, cheat, steal their way to win over their rivals (the CEOs of the world). And maybe intelligence means that though they might be happy to kill a rival, they're smart enough to decide that might end up hurting themselves.

Psychology has many levels, and there are categorie or types of people, but at the end of the day, everybody is unique and will have a different set and level of traits than somebody else.

I remember that case, r348.

IIRC, he didn’t even have headphones on or anything. He just purely didn’t hear it, which initially the detectives thought ludicrous. Turned out to be true.

Though interesting, I hope these leaks don't let this creep go free.

Ffs, those “unnamed law enforcement sources” in r352’s article better shut up. That incel bastard needs to be convicted.

[quote] “Theodora [bold]#MaddieKay[/bold] Stevenson arrived at 4:21a.m. 6lbs 5.8oz 19 inches,” The Goncalves Family Page posted. “Alivea and Robbie are doing great! We are blessed.”

Of course.

[quote]Alivea and Robbie are doing great! We are blessed.”

Alive-a?? Better than her sister Dead-a.

Twitter comments are as expected:

[quote]Theodora MaddieKay 😭😭😭#Idaho4 I still can't help but cry that the baby was born in the early hours of the morning around the same time that these four angels lost their lives in November months ago😭💔

[quote]MaddieKay, omg I’m crying 😩🥺

[quote]Kaylee Goncalves’ sister just had a baby and her middle name is Maddiekay for Maddy and Kaylee omg 😢💗

[quote]“MaddieKay” I AM SOBBING

Why would Maddie’s name have more prominence than her own sister? Weird.

Listen, the fraud are annoying as fuck, but I can’t make fun of them for naming that baby after them. Make fun of everything else, but I understand that. I named my first born after my deceased father, which in some ways I question now, but people do that right after a death, it shows how much pain they are in.

[quote] There was a murder that happened in Queens, NY. A woman was murdered in her kitchen while her 12-year old son was on an upper floor of their home. Either he was asleep or had headphones on, gaming. Poor kid was hauled out by the police, who suspected HIM. (Many genius online sleuths suspected him, too.) Her lover was the murderer.

We had a thread on this. Of course the police were going to take him into custody. That’s how it work, dope.

Yeah, weird to give the friend's name more prominence than the sister's name.

[quote] There was a murder that happened in Queens, NY. A woman was murdered in her kitchen while her 12-year old son was on an upper floor of their home. Either he was asleep or had headphones on, gaming. Poor kid was hauled out by the police, who suspected HIM. (Many genius online sleuths suspected him, too.) Her lover was the murderer.

And why shouldn’t people have suspected him? Her affair was a secret. He was the only one home that anyone knew of. Many kids have murdered their parents.

Using the same format, it would have been #KayleeMad.

do we know why he did it?

He a dick

R358 I agree, no reason to hate on this. I think they chose that because it was the best convo of the 2 names.

The order of the names fits better, imo.

"Why would Maddie’s name have more prominence than her own sister?"

What was the alternative! Kaymad? Kayleemad? They all sounds like ungrammatical threats.

Is Maddie short for Madison? Then she could have been Kaylison I guess.

Maybe even Kaylee's family preferred Madison to Kaylee.

They could have combined ALL the victims' names into a single name for this child in the spirit of inclusiveness. How hard could that be?

LOL. Kaymadixanathan.

Or combine their first initials for an acronym - XEMK? MEKX? KEMX?

I like Theodora.

r371 clever! It sounds like a name for a drug.

I finally watched the Dateline about this and it was as good as promised. The investigator who talked about the knife and said shooting would be easier but that he brought that huge knife simply to scare the shit out of them before he killed them just really pissed me off. Fuck this pasty asshole, he better get the death penalty.

I do too, r373. "MaddieKay" is a bit off but "Theodora" is a fantastic name.

BK grew up the only son in a blue collar, apparently rather dim witted Catholic family. He’s probably had sunshine blown up his ass by his mother and sisters his whole life.

Imagine his shock and rage when he went out into the real world and other women didn’t think he was Mr. Wonderful.

That’s how these freaks are created. Not “bullying.”

"Is Maddie short for Madison? Then she could have been Kaylison I guess."

I'm surprised-- and relieved, for the child's sake-- that they didn't go with "Kayddie".

His sister had lots to say about gun violence, she even wrote a shitty poem about it. She seems entirely silent on the dangers of knife violence and incel rage, though.

What was wrong with Oxycontina?

"Imagine his shock and rage when he went out into the real world and other women didn’t think he was Mr. Wonderful."

I had a co-worker like that, years ago, before anyone knew about incels or MRA crazies. He was odd about women, sometimes he pulled this Big Strong Man act and clearly expected the women to look up to him, other times he acted like a child and expected to be spoiled, and he'd get irrationally angry if a woman corrected or even contradicted him. He had indeed been raised with home schooling and several older sisters, expected women to treat him like his doting religious mother had, and got very angry when they didn't. In fact he generally spent his time being baffled by a world he didn't understand, as neither his upbringing or his IQ were any help on that front, but it didn't stop him from trying to play the dominant male.

He got married to some dweeby girl, and all the fraus asked each other why the hell any female would marry him, and then he left for a job in another state. And then we heard that his young wife had died under mysterious circumstances... and we never heard another thing! Except the fraus whispering to each other, while they looked horrified. They all suspected him of murder.

que so what. so what.

DILLWGAF, r381?

Kohberger: here's what they seized. Doesn't look too good for him.

From the parents' house in PA. A shop-vac...

They removed ALL the parts from the inside of the Elantra that his body might have come in contact with, incl the gas and brake pedals, steering wheel, etc. Looking for blood. Or other goo.

Can’t believe people are crushing on that incel freak.

^Size 13 shoes...He's a BIG man.

He is sexy. Face it.

He’s not. Why didn’t he have any sexual partners? A big dick is great except when it’s attached to a killer.

R389 We faced it. It wasn't so sexy.

r377 - I thought the opposite -- that they were afraid of him and kept their distance. I haven't seen any information about his childhood, but his SM posts as a teen were scary. His school buddy discussed his changes over one summer when Bryan lost weight, took up boxing, and had a personality transformation for the worse that led him to break it off the friendship.

Evidence reveal

Is there an echo in here? R384

I don't think so think so.

(Hey, there might be! Did you hear that?)

On Miss Ashleigh's show, someone said less than 10% of men wear size 13 and there were bloody footprints in the house.

They nailed Alex today - I'm hopeful this guy won't get off.

I bet he’s so glad he went back there to be exonerated quickly.

Any updates, other than "They're still dead"?

[quote] They nailed Alex today

Tell us your frau shut in without telling us you’re a frau shut in.

Kohberger was fired from his school right before the murders. He was on probation for bad behavior and was cut loose after failing to shape up. How and why this is just coming out now is anyone’s guess.

r400 That information was released over a month ago. Washington State University wanted to make public that they were aware of what a freak he was.

Why R400 is bringing it up now is anyone's guess...

[quote]Any updates, other than "They're still dead"?

Yeah, they're still--

Dammit!

I still can’t quite believe he IMMEDIATELY started acting the fool at his new TA job.

I wonder if he was back on drugs?

I'm still not hearing a motive.

What was Bundy's motive? Charismatic and handsome, had an easy time picking up girls, had long-term girlfriends - even had a child with one while on death row!

What was Jeffrey Dahmer's? He could pick up boys for sex but why the hell did he want to chop them up and eat them?

Plenty killers have been in long-term relationships and killed on the side.

Bryan didn't have any of these things going for him. Some people are just psychopaths with an extra dose of sadism.

Bundy had been dating someone who broke up with him. Apparently, she was above his weight class. It’s no excuse, but I think he was broken and angry over her dumping him. I’m not talking about the dopey woman who’s done a lot of interviews.

Maybe Bryan is more like Elliott Rodger?

He was mad, R405, REAL mad.

IF female students were complaining about BK and “got him fired” (that’s how he would look at it), I can see him flying into an I’LL SHOW ALL THOSE DUMB WHORES! type of rage.

How that rage became transferred to the actual victims is an interesting question.

Ted Bundt could still get it this guy couldn’t

It's uphread somewhere but Bryan had "liked" every Instagram post that Maddie made. And he'd driven on that street, which was sort of out-of-the-way, about a dozen times, obviously casing the joint, as far back as August, which is right after he started at WSU. He may have seen her at the Mad Greek where she worked and he had eaten. I'm pretty sure it was also reported he kept trying to say hello on DMs.

So obsession, stalking, being ignored or rejected online - motive enough. You don't need a motive anyway. Serial killers, mass killers, spree killers, often don't have motives, other than the act of killing for its own pleasure or high - or whatever they get out of it. Maybe not him - but some keep killing over and over, so they must get something out of it. Probably a feeling of power.

R407 nails it. BUndy's gf "Stephanie" had long dark hair parted in the middle and looked like the girls he killed. Bundy was so pissed at Stephanie for dumping him that he enrolled in law school and wooed her long distance and when she took the bait, he dumped her. He was furious and really went out of his way to hurt her. That's commitment right there.

R411 he must be REALLY awkward. he's tall and despite the shark eyes, he looks handsome (appealing to straight women at least) in a lot of his photos. i mean that one story from the girl who did go out with him was brutally awkward and odd.

by the way, regarding the "Page 118 of a book" in the search warrant list - there's been some speculation that it could be from Elliot Rodger's manifesto. Page 118 of his autobiography seems really relevant to the MO of the crime.

FYI - page 118 of Elliot Rodgers' "manifesto" - terrifying.

about how wicked and degenerate women really are. Most of the people on that website have extremely stupid opinions that I found very frustrating, but I found a few to be quite insightful. The website PUAHate is very depressing. It shows just how bleak and cruel the world is due of the evilness of women. I tried to show it to my parents, to give them some sort dose of reality as to why I am so miserable. They never understood why I am so miserable. They have always had the delusion that everything is going well for me, especially my father. When I sent the link of PUAHate.com to my parents, none of them even bothered to look at the posts on there.

After a Spring season spent in absolute despair while other young people lived healthy lives of sexual pleasure, summer arrived. Summer is even worse than Spring, especially in Santa Barbara. Flocks of hot, young girls go out in their shorts and bikini’s, further tantalizing my sex-starved body every time I look at them. Knowing that they gleefully show off their desirable forms, yet they would never give me a chance to be their boyfriend only increased my already boiling hatred towards all women. I could not leave my apartment without seeing at least a few of them. The only place I could go where I could be at peace was the Lake Park in Goleta. I spent a lot of time there, trying to establish a sense peace and serenity whenever my loneliness in Isla Vista became too unbearable. As I looked at all of the beautiful trees around me, and the towering mountains in the background, I wondered how a world so beautiful can be such a dark and cruel place. Indeed, a beautiful environment is the darkest hell if you have to experience it all alone, while other men get to enjoy the company of women.

I had nothing left to live for but revenge. Women must be punished for their crimes of rejecting such a magnificent gentleman as myself. All of those popular boys must be punished for enjoying heavenly lives and having sex with all the girls while I had to suffer in lonely virginity. It was already June, and I had been living in Santa Barbara for two years. Two whole years. I lived in a college town full of young, attractive students who partied and had sex all the time, and I didn’t get to experience any of it. No one invited me to any parties, and in all the times I went out by myself to Isla Vista, none of the beautiful blonde girls showed any interest in having sex with me. Not one girl. These are crimes than cannot go unpunished. The more I thought about all these injustices that were dealt to me, the more eager I became for revenge. It’s all I had left. I didn’t want to die, but I knew that I had to kill myself after I exacted my revenge to avoid getting captured and imprisoned.

For a while, I had been deciding on whether I would exact my Retribution in Isla Vista or at Santa Barbara City College. In both places, I had suffered greatly at the hands of everyone there. I have seen attractive young couples walking around in both places, and those were my targets. I wanted to kill as many attractive young couples as I possibly could.

After a lot of thinking, I came to the conclusion that the Day of Retribution will take place in Isla Vista. On weekend nights, the streets of Isla Vista are always flooded with young couples and good-looking popular kids walking to their parties. What better place is there to exact my Retribution on my enemies? Every time I walked around Isla Vista, trying to meet girls or fit in with popular kids, I’ve only been treated with disdain, as if I’m an inferior mouse. On the Day of Retribution, the tables will indeed turn, I mused to myself. I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter. They are animals… They behave like animals, and I will slaughter them like the animals they are.

r416 continued

It came to a point where I had to set a date for the Day of Retribution. I originally considered doing it on the Halloween of 2013. That is when the entire town erupts in raucous partying. There would literally be thousands of people crowded together who I could kill with ease, and the goal was to kill everyone in Isla Vista, to utterly destroy that wretched town. But then, after seeing footage of previous Halloween events on Youtube, I saw that there were too many cops walking around. It would be too risky. One gunshot from a cop will end everything. The Day of Retribution would have to be on a normal party weekend, so I set it for some time during November of 2013.

What happened to the days when young men who couldn't get women to have sex with them just got game, or worked out and bulked up, or got a good job and made enough money to buy a cool car? Why all this focus on killing?

Did anyone see the DiscoveryID docu recently?

R418 Beats the hell out of me!

R419 is it new? I will have to find it to stream. Anything good or stuff we know already?

I read Rodgers whole manifesto a few times - it's pretty wild. My favorite part is when he tells a story about how he got so mad seeing a cute girl and her boyfriend in a parking lot (or maybe sitting at a cafe or something) that he approached them and splashed them with orange juice or orange soda. He started getting really into doing shit like that to girls and sexually successful guys. He had ZERO insight into why people didn't like him - he just couldn't believe they didn't find him to be magnificent and want to follow him. There's not one moment where he asks himself if he's too rude or self-involved or too aggressive or if he is doing something wrong. It's narcissism in it's more pure and hardcore form - his entire sense of good and evil is just based on what validates or submits to him. He doesn't have any other framework for thinking about the world whatsoever.

[quote][R419] is it new? I will have to find it to stream. Anything good or stuff we know already?

Yes, it was new, but honestly I didn't see anything on there we haven't already known and/or discussed here. It was just cool to see the visuals of his house, how the FBI raided it at 4am, etc.

BK’S SISTERS FIRED FROM THEIR JOBS

link in next post

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Is that legal?

Very attractive young women. I feel bad for them having grown up under the same roof. It couldn't have been easy and now they're punished for something beyond their control.

They will have to change their last names, however the actress sister likely wasn't getting jobs before this happened.

Look at the lives he's ruined; the worthless bastard. I hope his legs fall off.

BTK's daughter seems to be doing fine. Giving interviews as an expert on her father, on the phenom of mass killing, on being a surviving family member... I remember a Ted talk given by the mother of Dylan Klebold. Maybe there's backlash but I don't see much - unless they were involved, like Brian Laundrie's mother who offered to give him a shovel or some such. And even she doesn't seem to really be in any kind of danger - even legal.

Didn't the Laundrie parents even sue to get their damn gun back, that their son had used to kill himself. And they were quick to go retrieve the car from the parking lot off that park or whatever he killed himself in.

Gotta have your priorities.

The counselor sister looks just like BK.

Crazy eyes.

The counselor sister looks just like Nomi in the “FUCKER! FUCK OFF!!!” scene.

Bizarre. He hasn't been convicted yet! The trial hasn't even started!

I wonder if it's more complicated and the family are presenting it in this way for sympathy. Or, maybe they were under siege at their jobs by true crime obsessives?

At-will employment laws are brutal. Isn't the school counsellor in a teachers' union?

I can see true crime enthusiasts harassing them at work, which would be detrimental for a school counselor and for students. That said, firing her does seem legally dubious.

r429 - Could you please give us any creditable behavior or citations that led us to believe this,?

I don't understand the question R435.

I just watch Ashleigh Banfield, where BTK's daughter was interviewed - or maybe some other tv show. You can find Dylan's mother's talk if you search Ted Talks. And the report of Brian's mom offering to help him with the body was also on tv.

R433 - the article is very scant with details like where the sister was employed. Some states ban collective bargaining by public employees. Not shockingly Southern states with low standardized test scores.

r435 I'm not the guy who said he saw it on the tee-vee, but I did find a link. Looks like the lawyer for the Petitos says he saw the letter Brian Laundrie's mom wrote and that the FBI has it.

Part 12???

Quite the druggy town

What is the druggy town? The guy died in Washington state.

[quote] The UI announced Thursday that Caden Young, a junior from Boise, had died while away from Moscow.

The deceased and the woman were students at UoI in Moscow and were briefly in WA, close to Moscow, where he died. He had OD'd, been picked up by the girl and the felong from the hospital, then O'd again.

You're right, they were probably off to pick daffodils for people at an old folks' home, what a wholesome trio!

June 26 is the next court date. Meanwhile, we house and feed this useless fucker. Our courts need to double-time these cases, because of the pesky legal "presumption of innocence"

Kohberger's siblings need to follow the example of Dahmer's brother and CHANGE THEIR LAST NAMES.

I get crazy vibes from the counselor sister.

[quote] Our courts need to double-time these cases, because of the pesky legal "presumption of innocence"

Are you ok with your taxes being doubled to expand the justice system to do that?

R443

For all its faults, the US has one of the best legal systems in the world and yes, people are allowed time to mount their defense and to be presumed innocent. It’s codified in the constitution but I guess you know better.

[quote] The envelope containing the letter said "burn after reading" according to Reilly, who said the letter was recovered from Brian Laundrie's backpack when his body was found.

Gen Zs can’t do *anything* right.

R447, my comment was mostly sarcasm, with a smidge of Monday morning grouch.

[quote]June 26 is the next court date. Meanwhile, we house and feed this useless fucker. Our courts need to double-time these cases, because of the pesky legal "presumption of innocence"

Sentiment above is very typical right-wing Trumpy agitprop. This case likely involves the death penalty. There are serious legal requirements in place in most states for every case where the death penalty is, or may become, a consideration. (Hence Kohberger being appointed a second attorney - you have to have at least 2 in death penalty cases, in most states). The court inquired how much time the sides needed to prepare, and responses were given; the date was calendared accordingly. The impatience of the "take em out and shoot em rat now" gang is of no importance. Thank God.

"I get crazy vibes from the counselor sister."

Well she was raised by the same people who produced a Bryan Kohberger, and she had to live with Bryan for over a decade! Of course she's been through some horrific shit!

But if she's studied psychology and become a counselor, that makes it 99% sure that she's trying to both deal with her own trauma and help others, and live a sane, normal, and helpful life. Of course there's that 1% chance that she's a Hannibal Lechter, but really, there are overwhelming odds that she's just trying to rise above the personal trauma.

R449

It’s cool. FWIW, I think Kohberger did it.

"Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger kept ID tied to killings: sources"

They always have to have their 'trophy' don't they.

This guy seems really stupid and bad. It actually makes this whole case even worse. These kids were killed by a bumbling moron who got caught quickly and made a ton of mistakes. Just a waste.

^Having a certain amount of experience in the criminal justice system, I can tell you we are all very fortunate that the vast majority of criminals are, surprisingly, DEEPLY STUPID people. It's really unbelievable how dumb they are, for the most part.

True. If criminals were smart, we'd never catch 'em.

That can't be, r453. That simply cannot be. I distinctly remember morons like r50 claiming they found nothing.

And, per r50's 'experts,' they found nothing incriminating. Of course, said 'experts' hadn't a fucking clue as to what was found, but they'll spout off anyway, just like r50.

R457, Yes, let's believe "sources"

I assume this motherfucker is going to get the firing squad so I can see why they're scrambling to find witnesses.

R450 Is this sentiment common around the world? Like do Scandinavians complain about their prisons not being punitive enough? I'm always astounded by the barbarism in America. Nobody can wrap their head around the concept of an externality.

I’m not that poster r460, but I agree with both of you.

I’m the volunteer inside a county jail that’s part of Chicago. You would *not* believe the conditions, the hardship, the blatant corruption, violation of human rights, and the suffering. It is all designed to dehumanize them completely, and Americans love that shit….until it’s someone that they love. That’s actually the story of America in a nutshell. We don’t give a fuck until it hurts us.

And the irony is people assume that must mean I don’t think people should held accountable. Not true!!!!! But if we don’t treat them humanely, then how exactly are we any better????? I am sure this guy is guilty, and if so, he should never ever be free. But I do believe in due process. He deserves presumption of innocence, all defendants deserve that. Again, people don’t “get it” until it happens to them.

R460 Barbarism begins at home, even a pussy like Morrissey knows that. And someone who is cowardly and brutal enough to murder people in their sleep is not going to be the person that people feel badly for and want to champion for better treatment. Maybe a weed dealer should have more humane conditions, not this fucker.

One of the surviving "basement girls" witnesses has successfully quashed a subpoena for her attendance at Bry's big preliminary hearing (commencing on June 28th). The linked article doesn't say if it's little Dylan or Bethany they're talking about, but I'm betting it's Dyl. She agreed, instead, to be "interviewed" in her home state (unidentified) by the defense, and so she isn't going to be compelled to show her ass at this important criminal proceeding. Somewhat strange, to put it mildly (speaking as an attorney). No other reasons are given.

The preliminary hearing has been cancelled. It seems BK has probably been indicted by a grand jury. We know the prelim next week has been cancelled because that's already showing up on the court schedule, and a reporter just a few minutes ago confirmed the rumor, which was started by News Nation.

Still officially just a rumor but we'll know more soon probably.

He'll be in court for his arraignment Monday morning 10:00 A.M. I'm assuming that's local time.

I'm guessing this will push the next substantial proceeding in the case (i.e. start of the trial) until about a year from now...-R463

[quote] Monday morning 10:00 A.M. I'm assuming that's local time.

No, Rose, it's whenever it's 10:00am in Australia. It's a quirk of state law that requires that.

R467, I heard the report on my local news station which is in the Eastern Standard Time zone. Hence my added note about the time. (R465)

If there’s a choice between prelim in open court or grand jury (closed court), that seems like a no-brainer for the prosecutor - grand jury! I also wonder which witness got her / his subpoena quashed. Dylan? The one who didn;t call 911?

Also, why the hell did this take so long for the charges to come down? This happened months ago. How do you even hold someone in custody this long without a charge?

R459, Bethany was subpoenaed by the defense. She now resides in Nevada and argued she should not have to travel to Idaho for a preliminary hearing. The defense team finally acquiesced and agreed to travel to Nevada for her deposition. If this has been discussed upthread, apologies.

R470 was meant for R469.

"NEW YORK (AP) - Best-selling novelist James Patterson is teaming up with investigative journalist Vicky Ward on a book about the 2022 killing of four University of Idaho students."

"Little, Brown and Company announced Friday that Patterson and Ward will "draw from dozens of exclusive interviews, extensive on-the-ground reporting, copious court transcripts" and their own planned attendance at the trial of suspect Bryan Kohberger, who was indicted this week by a grand jury in Boise."

I thought this interesting.

R469, I’m no expert so I don’t know how they were able to hold him, but I do have confidence they had enough to satisfy a judge or whatever. I thought the way it works is that the government must show a judge that they have enough evidence to warrant him being stripped of his freedom, combined with setting the highest bail possible to prevent him from re-entering the community. If memory serves, he only has a public defender, so he’s likely totally fucked.

If I were working on this case, I would want to stall as long as possible to collect evidence and do all necessary tests, analyses, talk to experts, blahblahblah. They want to *nail* this mother fucker, so they have to be ruthless about making their case fits together perfectly, leave no stone unturned, have answers for each part of the defense counter-argument.

The defendant asks for a preliminary hearing, in order to find out what the evidence is that the prosecutor is holding against him. If he gets out on bond before such hearing takes place, he loses the right to that hearing. Kohberger's lawyers asked for one, as a real necessity in this case, and also knew that asking to get him out of jail on bond was not going to happen in this situation. In the meantime, he was indicted, which obviated the prelim hearing. It was a matter of logistics here: both sides needed a long time to prepare for a preliminary hearing, and so the DA (who certainly did not want to reveal his or her case like this in a "trial run") just blew the whole thing out of the water by getting Kohberger indicted by a grand jury before it would even happen.

Meantime, Bry is being accused of creeping on another woman shortly before these Idaho murders occurred:

Young and enjoying life with friends and family and this miserable cur steals it away forever, because why? Because his enjoyment is spying, and sneaking and robbing their very existence because they ARE happy. It makes him feel good to kill them viciously, maliciously. He hates they were happy. He hates they had friends. He hates they were attractive and so enjoys hurting them, murdering them. Is not at all sorry. He thinks when he's done he's oh so smart, quite the very clever chap. It's a big secret. No one knows. Once caught plays the 'I'm innocent' game. Evidence presented he'll play the 'I had problems, poor me' game.

I hope he gets the firing squad.

R476, early FBI personality profiles said this person hated this group meaning they were attractive, popular kids. I recall early on, online sleuths were certain it was Hoodie who commiteed this heinous crime because he had anger issues and liked to hunt. I remember thinking, no, the person who committed this crime is normally a very, quiet and reserved person with a lot of pent-up rage and when it comes out, look out. And here we are.

R473 this man is a psychopath to the core. And an idiot for being so cocky about his defense! This jackass did all of this, which is all discoverable, keeps a memento from the murders in his room, and still has the audacity to think he can play off the whole thing as innocent?

He should not be part of society ever again. Let other prisoners do what they will like they did with Dahmer. There’s no rehabilitation with someone like this.

I recently spent a few years living in a town with a distinctly sociopathic population. They were simultaneously the dumbest motherfuckers who ever drew breath.

I quickly abandoned the “brilliant psychopath “ cliche.

Live coverage of arraignment in a second or two now.

R475 - Thanks for the explanation about the preliminary hearing and the bond. The DA did some good lawyering.

R479 - Camarillo was the site of a state mental hospital until the late '90s. I assume that over the years many patients remained in the area after release. And reproduced.

What's his angle with remaining silent when the judge asked "how do you plead." Is he trying to show his supposed smarts of the judicial system or is he going to take on a new persona, that of martyr? I'm curious what you guys think of this move. Such machinations!

R482 That allowsthe court to enter a plea in his name. So that his words can't complicate the legal process going forward...the less he speaks the better his chances. I think that way he can await to see what the prosecution presents and if he sees he's being proven guilty he can try and plea bargain.

Thanks R483, that's very iteresting. I didn't realize this was (somewhat?) standard procedure.

R484 I did not either. I learned online of it. Wow. To me this sounds like he's cooked. Already thinking he's got to prepare ahead to make deals, and those deals are 'please don't kill me'. Funny how these guys never mind doing that to someone else.

I really hope they seek the death penalty in this case.

Of course the death penalty will be sought; it's Idaho. I think they do it there by firing squad, but in this case, it should be a stabbing squad.

I really don’t think he should be executed by the state. In cases like this, if anything I think the killer should be locked up in prison for a long time or killed by a member or members of the victims’ families. Like in that Sissy Spacek/Marisa Tomei/Nick Stahl film, In The Bedroom.

Website-who-shall-not-be named reports his parents have been called to testify re a woman who disappeared in 2022 and whose body was recently found. I remember all our questions as to whether or not these murders were a one time deal or if he had killed before.

R489, several people did preach that he had to have killed before to enter that house and be willing to take out four people. Just statistically speaking, the odds of that being his *first* murder are low IMHO. Also, I say that based on his intelligence as well, plus the fact that he was complaining online about visual snow and feeling like he isn’t human but a creature wearing a skin suit ten years ago…..these all point to him opening his release valve earlier than this Idaho case.

Also, I cannot imagine the Grand Jury would put his parents up on the stand if prosecutors don’t believe they have valuable evidence. It does seem like the family has likely cooperated fully with the investigation, so I am hopeful the parents have useful evidence on the Pennsyltucky disappearance.

R490, I just read his parent's attorney fought it but they were forced to go before the grand jury. His mother has already testified and his father is scheduled to testify in a few days.

It's interesting he bought the knife 04/22 and she disappeared 05/22. I still believe he was planning a murder but he was not going to do anything until he moved across the country. I suppose with the discovery of the body they may be able to tie him to this murder with items found in his parent's house. Still, it doesn't seem to fit his MO.

Wow, where did you read that r491? I did not read anything about them fighting it, so maybe I’m wrong, though still, the prosecutor must believe they have valuable info, otherwise, why bring them, right?

Here you go, R492. It looks like they're quoting a CNN report.

Turn the Three Stooges loose on him.

This is all really weird - I feel like the trial is going to be shocking in one way or another with whatever information is being held back for now. But it doesn't seem like he's involved in this other woman's death?

[quote] But it doesn't seem like he's involved in this other woman's death?

Oh, dear.

There was a report that the family was not cooperating and that their son had an airtight alibi. Why prosecutors were bringing them before a grand jury stumped some experts.

I hope this town knows what it’s doing and it doesn’t turn into a sideshow.

On the plus side, this woman's murder now has media attention which must please the family.

On the down side, I hope LE does not go down that road wherein they subpoena his parents for every dead body found within a 200 mile radius from their home. This is bordering on harassment. Yes, he's a psychopath but I don't feel his parents are the monsters many people have accused them of being. Sometimes you just get a bad egg and this guy is most definitely a bad egg.

I haven’t read about anyone attacking the parents, though I did read that one of his sisters was fired from her job.

I do 100% agree r498, sometimes you just get a dud/bad egg. The family from the outside seems nice and normal, the only caveat is the father seems like he’s on the spectrum. I suspect BK is just a bad egg though.

Look, if one child in a family grows up to be a psychopath and another grows up to be a therapist, you KNOW there were family issues when the kids were growing up!

R500? I stand corrected. You are absolutely right.

No offense to therapists on DL, but I think at least 50% are crazy and traumatized people.

R499, I believe both of his sisters were fired (let go, it's more polite) from their jobs.

When I said I feared his parents may be targeted, I meant in reference to LE and every investigation which involves a dead body and no suspects. They can't keep dragging them into investigative grand juries just because someone expired within a certain radius of their home.

There's a lot to be said for heredity when it comes to psychopathy. Expert Robert Hare estimated that 4% of the population is a psychopath. That's one in every classroom. We've all know them. I mean, just think how large the number of murderers is in this country. I shudder to think.

*We've all KNOWN them.

About the dad appearing to be on the spectrum:

"Both ASD (autism) and psychopathy are also heritable and may have shared genetic basis (O’Nions et al. 2015; Tiihonen et al. 2020)."

I think they can identify psychopaths using an MRI - messed up pre-frontal cortex or amygdala or some such - it fails to light up when they watch a child being tortured - while a normal person's brain would show activity in the centers of empathy. Oh I'm not explaining it well, but it's clearly a physical thing, at least in many cases. And there's often a history of brain injury - so it can be environmentally caused.

The families of Idaho student murders victims released a statement following alleged killer Bryan Kohberger’s indictment and arraignment Monday. Two of the families also filed a notice to reserve their right to sue the city of Moscow over the brutal murders.

On what basis would the families sue the city?

Goncalves and Mogen families filed the notice to sue. Lost wages of the kids ie future earnings. Something about failure to protect the victims. Sounds rather baseless.

[quote]There's a lot to be said for heredity when it comes to psychopathy. Expert Robert Hare estimated that 4% of the population is a psychopath. That's one in every classroom. We've all know them. I mean, just think how large the number of murderers is in this country. I shudder to think.

Most psychopaths aren't murderers though. Hare also said that you need to have negative childhood experiences to become a murderer. Hare claims to be a psychopath himself but says he isn't a killer because he had a good childhood.

Anyone have more information on the dead/missing PA woman?

R497 when you say the son had an alibi you mean Kohberger?

The father did fly from PA to WA to help BK drive his white Hyundai from WA back to PA. At the time, police suspected that a white Hyundai (IIRC) was involved.

The father flying to WA was fishy, IMO. I think the father knew that BK wanted to get his car far away from WA and Idaho. The Four Students Killed in Idaho story was national news and I think the father did know that the shit was about to hit the fan on his son.

Unless the father had been doing the drive every year for the winter break, yeah. It looks fishy.

It's possible the family knew what Bryan was capable of, or feared he was capable of murder. Seriously, I agree with the person who says this probably wasn't his first murder, the cops at his previous places of residence need to start looking at any cold case murders that happened near him, particularly any deaths of young women. Because a lot of murders go unsolved, if a spouse isn't standing over a warm corpse with a gun in their hand, and the local cops don't have CSI and FBI resources, a killer might get away with it.

It’s fascinating / horrifying that he was able to go relatively far in a criminology career. He’s clearly a nutter and comes across that way.

R512, I think this was his first academic year so there hadn't been a previous winter break. He went to school at some college near his home before that.

And there was his "visual film" or whatever going on - unless he'd gotten better. He claimed in a journal or online somewhere that he saw things that weren't there in his peripheral vision, so that might explain dad worrying about him driving 2000 miles or whatever it is.

But it's still pretty wild he'd start with four. But didn't he case the joint twelve times, each time late at night? Maybe he was hoping to catch his target alone and just gave up. I assume he found her the first time by following her home, maybe from that restaurant with the vegan food? -- and he was still only 28. With a quick google search I found this:

"Over the course of his work, which began in 1979, Vronsky has deduced that serial killers generally develop the personality and compulsion befitting a killer when they're young — by the time they're 14, they're basically fully formed; they generally start killing in their late twenties."

No way was he intending to kill 4. He probably thought he’d get Maddie upstairs in her bedroom and then sneak out. He didn’t know Kaylee was there. And then he unexpectedly encountered Xana in the hallway who had just finished eating. And he probably didn’t know Ethan was in her bedroom.

I’m not convinced that Dylan wasn’t an accomplice.

Are you kidding R516? Do you also think Dr. Bill Petit killed his wife and kids? You're literally adding insult to injury. It takes a fucking sociopath freak to murder four people and you think a 21 year old girl, friends with all the vicims, is complicit? My eyes can't roll hard enough.

"But it's still pretty wild he'd start with four."

It's possible, I suppose, he seems to have just been after Madison, and was shocked to find another girl in her bed, and the roommates awake when he tried to leave. He was the one who was armed, sober, and sociopathic, so it's possible that three of the murders were unplanned and he left the house shocked that he'd knifed four people instead of one. But that's not a given, you'd think that someone with no experience with killing would panic at some point and make a bigger mistake than leaving his knife sheath behind.

Good points. But he did drop the knife sheath which is pretty rookie error, especially when it was found next to a female victim upstairs. It might be more understandable if he'd lost it fighting with Ethan. If I remember the timeline, he went to the top floor first, tried one door which was locked, then the other which had the two girls.

I'm surprised he didn't get a gun with a silencer but I guess it has to do with his rage and wanting the visceral sensation of stabbing someone to death. Didn't he ask his "survey" criminals how they "felt" during their crime?

He was an idiot to go into a house full of people. If he didn’t know there was a house full of people— even dumber.

If course that tracks with his bring a life-long fuckup.

He had been scoping and stalking the house & the girls' social media posts. I think he DID know that this was a house full of roommates, PLUS it was a local party house.

I think he knew there would be multiple people in the house. I think he studied up on how / where to stab someone in order to kill them.

No way would he have gone in there if he knew Ethan was there.

I wonder if there were any guns in the house. It’s Idaho, after all. It’s too bad no one blew this fucker away.

[quote]He was an idiot to go into a house full of people. If he didn’t know there was a house full of people— even dumber.

And there was a DoorDash delivery literally a couple of minutes before he went in.

He’s an idiot.

Yeah - he drove by the house (likely saw the delivery guy) - circled around and came back pretty quickly. I think the plan was just eating him up and he couldn't make himself delay any longer.

People at his univ said he was calmer and better behaved AFTER he did this! But before, he had been talked to a couple times for lousy attitude, and he was still fired due to so many complaints from female students and also his bosses (lead professors or whatever they were.) It's like he was in a frenzy leading up to this.

Yeah, he was an inappropriate piece of white trash.

He also turned out to be a murderer, but even before that he was a known piece of shit.

He must have looked at their social media accounts before he drove to the house on 11/13. He knew Kaylee was there because of the now infamous photos showing the six of them together earlier in the day. He saw food being delivered at four freakin; A.M. and yet he still decided to put his plan in play.

The media now seems focused on Maddie as the target but don't forget Kaylee's dad saw Kaylee's and Madison's autopsy reports and they showed Kaylee took the brunt of the attacks. Possibly Maddie was his true target and he became enraged when he saw Kaylee in bed with Maddie and proceeded to take it out on her. It could also be as basic as weight differences between the women. Kaylee was heavier than Maddie and Xana so he may have felt he had to inflict heavier damage in order to penetrate the flesh.

If Kaylee was not the target that poor kid had either the worst timing or the worst luck in the world.

I recently lived in a “white trash” town because of work. (Camarillo, CA.)

You’d be shocked how white trash behaves. They blurt out anything that pops into their head. Even when saying or doing something puts them in danger, they seem compelled to say/do it.

This makes me wonder how the girls got on old boy’s radar. Possible they mouthed off to him.

"Kaylee's dad saw Kaylee's and Madison's autopsy reports and they showed Kaylee took the brunt of the attacks."

Maybe she tried to fight back, poor kid.

But it's still likely that the unfortunate Maddie was his primary target, it was her room that he broke into. Even if he knew that Kaylee was back in town for a short stay, it's unlikely that he expected her to be sharing an actual bed with his real target.

Xana fought back and she had defensive wounds according to her father. I have yet to hear Kaylee had defensive wounds.

Also, he placed Murphy, Kaylee's dog in her bedroom. I just read a report that said he tried Kaylee's door but it was locked which makes no sense if he was able to plce the dog in there. This is the first I'm hearing about a locked door. Anyway, hopefully, this will all come out at trial and we'll be able to make sense of how it all went down that night.

[quote]but don't forget Kaylee's dad saw Kaylee's and Madison's autopsy reports and they showed Kaylee took the brunt of the attacks.

The dad is not reliable.

R525

Reminds me of Leopold and Loeb and why for they worked for weeks on a plan to commit a murder, clearly an obsession, which is why they called the movie Compulsion.

The movie was called Rope!

Girls, girls, there's two movies. The good one is called "Compulsion", the other pretentious one that every director claims to love, is "Rope".

Just look at how good-looking Dean Stockwell was in Compulsion. Look at him!

^ Wait, wasn't he a Disney guy?!

He sure was R536!

I would love to see BK’s cock.

Holy shit! I totally forgot about this case until the thread popped up.

Kaylee looked like Florence Pugh.

Bryan has a sexual magnetism to him, R538.

Creepers have invaded the thread. Can't you guys do a combo thread with Chris Watts et al? Or combine your fave teen hearthrobs and k-pop bands with Killer 'R' Us.

You’re no fun, R542.

I'm not here for fun R543, I'm here for justice, Unless he had his dick in the sheath there's really no point in discussing it. j/k

I was just thinking in the beginning they made a big deal about searching for the killer. I don’t hear anything about that now, they seem to have settled on Kohberger and of course the law says you are innocent until proven guilty. Seems to me then the inside dope on it must be he’s the one.

I think they were onto him early on. When that gas station mgr released their CCTV of his car speeding by early that morning the press went nuts. LE played dumb but knew they had to release some sort of announcement so they said they were looking for "passengers" plural, riding in the vehicle that early morning. They had also fine-tuned the model year of the Elantra but let the public think it was a different year. They'd known about the getaway car for quite some time.

They also put out an announcement during winter commencement ceremonies, telling the revelers to stay in groups and be aware of their surroundings. But I believe they were more worried about a copykat type killer. They already had Kohberger as their prime suspect.

I think they took a lot of flack because they were portrayed as idiots in the press and online by armchair sleuths. But they just went about getting their ducks in a row in order to gather enough evidence to charge him.

I think they had suspicions when they ran his tag early on I think from a check of white Elantras they were checking out in parking lots.

I think the idiotic thing they did was announce that the public was not in danger before they arrested this asshole. Why in hell did they do that? It's obvious there was a killer on the loose, and if he thought he'd been identified, he could well have said, 'I'm fucked anyway so might as well rape and kill as many as I can until they nab me.'

R548, I’m convinced that whenever we finally hear the ENTIRE story, that the decision-making from law enforcement will make more sense. I too bought into the media’s keystone cops theme, but once law enforcement had their presser, I realized they had been ahead of this and were already proactively building a compelling case. My dream is that we hear the exact date that LEO identified who BK is, and then the exact date they began surveillance on him. If anyone knows those dates I would love to hear them.

At the first presser, I had the impression that investigators and prosecutors were doing their best to be methodical, and no leaks to the press, and they did it. The only mistakes I would acknowledge on their part were one or two statements they made didn’t do enough to calm down the public and I think those poorly worded statements retraumatized the families too. But the police chief or some other leader did publicly own that he learned a LOT about messaging from this crisis, he learned that he needs to be more careful and more compassionate is a high publicity case such as this. When a leader owns up to making a bad call, I’ll take that any day. It wasn’t a mistake of gross negligence or malice, it was simply a unique emergency and these people have no experience with PR. Considering the fact that these cops don’t handle a high case load or the violence and gang culture like city cops, I can’t be too pissed at their performance. All in, I give them a B.

If he is executed by firing squad, that will be pretty horrific (I’m against the dp), but I do think that’s what they are really aiming for. .

It does seem highly likely that Kohberger is the real killer, the evidence released to the public sounds convincing, there have been no other murders in the area, and Kohberger hasn't made a big deal out of protesting his innocence. And of course if he isn't the real killer, the real killer has thanked Satan and moved out of the area, to carry on killing some place there will be less interest from the FBI and national press.

And speaking of protesting innocence, has anyone had the nerve to look at the Incels and see what they think of this case? Do they think Kohberger is innocent and that all those dead bitches are making false accusations of murder, or are they hailing him as a hero the way they hailed mass murderer Elliot Rogers?

[quote] And speaking of protesting innocence, has anyone had the nerve to look at the Incels and see what they think of this case?

Yes, we think murder is bad.

[quote] My dream is that we hear the exact date that LEO identified who BK is, and then the exact date they began surveillance on him.

[italic]That’s[/italic] your dream?

LEO?

Lessies Eating Oreos.

R592, I had a moment while high there, maybe not the best word choice lol. But I still want to know those dates!

Me too R555! I would give my first born child to know that! I guess they really did know like hours later.

R553 Law enforcement officers.

R549 It WOULD be interesting to know that. I wonder what clued them onto him in the first place, being he was not even in the same state. I guess the car? Anyway the cops, the law enforcement team is a lot of times ahead of the game and have to take flack and just stand around mum. That would drive me crazy.

I once posted I hope he gets the firing squad but when I watched Law and crime network when it came out he was standing silent one of the lawyers made the statement that the firing squad method would only be used in the case of not being able to secure the drugs for lethal injection. I wondered at the time if that lawyer read my post on here about hoping he'd get the firing squad. I felt Hell, I not only did I hope that, I'd watch it. Guy deserves nothing less.

Someone else also pointed out that of course this will drag on and on in court with appeals and by the time he gets his final sentence it will be years from now.

I was talking with my brother and the case of Ng, a California serial killer who ran to Canada and was brought back. Particularly horrible stuff, btw, a real monster.

My brother told me Ng escaped the death penalty by constantly firing his lawyer and having to start all over again. He finally has been sentenced to the death penalty last year in August.

It was one of the longest, most expensive trials in California history for the amounts of delays brought by the defense.

But Gov. Gavin Newsom has a moratorium on the death penalty in California as long as he is chief executive. Ng still has the possibility of other federal appeals.

Yeah R558, Ng is a fucking pussy. His partner, Leonard Lake, took a cyanide capsule when he was caught. Those two were fucking horrible and the videos of their crimes were unspeakable.

Also, firing squad is used in Mormon country because they believe in blood atonement. Your blood has to touch the earth to atone for your crimes. It's why Gary Gilmore was shot. I bet there's enough Mormons there to believe in this, so maybe he'll get it.

I read it was his car. They had officers running the plates of white Elantras and he had been stopped when he first arrived in the area and they had copied his drivers license. They knew that the perp they were looking for had bushy eyebrows from the description given by a surviving roommate. When his plate was run, it showed his driver's license pic and in it he has bushy eyebrows. Of course they didn't know it was him at that point, but it pointed them in his direction. This was approximately three weeks after the murders.

And if not for the convenience store clerk, would they even know which car it was? That woman is a hero!

R560 Gary Gilmore chose the firing squad way to die for himself. Said he did not want to languish in prison for years. "At a hearing for a new trial on November 1, 1976, Gilmore testified he did “not care to languish in prison for another day.”

Yeah I know R563, but I'm saying the reason WHY the firing squad was on the table is because this was in Utah. Gilmore was no fucking Mo and in fact probably killed those guys because they were. So in a Mo populace, they give you that choice. I've read "The Executioner's song" many, many times, and loved the TV movie too.

Anyone besides me sick of hearing Jennifer Coffindaffer? She grates my nerves to the nub.

[quote] I've read "The Executioner's song" many, many times, and loved the TV movie too.

If you're that into it, you should read Mikal Gilmore's "Shot in the Heart." Mikal is the brother of Gary and Mikal's a good writer. IIRC, the first chapter or 2 give an excruciating amount of detail about Mormon history. That part might be hard to plow through, but the rest of the book was easy to read.

LEO = Leggy Eggless Ostriches

[quote]I think the idiotic thing they did was announce that the public was not in danger before they arrested this asshole. Why in hell did they do that? It's obvious there was a killer on the loose,

I’m sure they had a professional (FBI or similar) profile this killer and determined that he was after one particular victim and wasn’t likely to kill someone else in the near future.

R564 I actually don't know really much about Gilmore. Didn't see the movie or the book. But I see The Executioner's Song has Eli Wallach in it, written by Norman Mailer (whom I don't really care for) but it's on Youtube for free so I'll watch it and see. Thanks for mentioning the movie.

R566 I have! And I did enjoy it but I liked Executioner's song more. It was interesting to see Mikal's opinion on his brother selling his death and the family (Uncle Vern) cashing in on it. I don't think Mikal liked Vern much. He wanted Gary to get out of being shot but Gary knew that Nicole and Vern and Schiller were all counting on it to make some money. I have the A&E Gilmore biography on dvd too. It has the real Nicole and cousin Brenda and footage of Gary. I highly reccomend it. I think it might even have pictures of the guys he killed. Now I'll have to re-read "Shot in the Heart".

R570, I think Mikal (baby of the family, IIRC) and Gary had two different experiences while growing up in the same household. Gary was treated more harshly. But I also think Gary was a cold-blooded killer. To kill two guys, strangers, in a gas station / convenience store. For what? Did he ever apologize for that? I don't have much sympathy or empathy at all for Gary.

I do wonder why more people on death row don't just demand to be executed right away, like he did. You've led a life of crime, murdering people. Now, you want to live out your senior citizen years ... in prison? That's fear-based, I think (fear of dying). Not as bad-ass as you might think a killer is.

Stop with the abbreviations.

I knew what it meant. I just wanted to call out people who type fat and lazy. Abbreviations need to stop.

R572 Yeah I think so too, they had very different lives. I also think that Gary didn't really want to die but he didn't want to be in prison. If you recall in the ES, someone, Larry Schiller maybe, asked if he wanted to live IF he could be released and share a house with Nicole, and he did. Of course there was no way that was happening. He also wanted Nicole to die with him so that she could never be with another man. When they did their joint suicide attempt, he did it half-assedly. He wanted to survive to make sure Nicole died. He really had started this whole runaway train and he couldn't back out, I think Mikal wanted to help him back out but he had to save face. This was also at the time of the Hi-Fi murders and people knew that if he got executed, those guys would for sure, so they wanted to stop his execution to spare them (btw, if you haven't read Victim: the other side of Murder, about the HI-Fi killings, you should!) Anyhow, sorry to derail, I just thinkt that whole case was so fascinating and only partly because of him. Just the whole culture of that time and the way killers were treated is interesting. I remember one part where the guy who ratted him out was talking to Uncle Vern and Very told him disdainfully that Gary thought he was a rat and a creep, the guy said, "what I should have said was, who fucking care what that cold blooded killer thinks of me?" But they were all so in awe and reverent of him.

Shit, I meant to direct R574 to poster R571. Sorry.

R564 Wow. That movie.

It's nearly life changing or at least it is for now.

As a young news reporter who befriended Gilmore's girlfriend once said, "The main thing that's important for me in all of this is I just really hope that Max Jensen and Bennie Bushnell are not forgotten," the murdered men. Well, I feel the same. Gilmore did commit murder, didn't seem he cared much how he robbed those men of their lives and how it hurt their families. He seemed to have no remorse. Honestly though, Clapton's song playing in my head (and I'm paraphrasing here) why does life have to be so sad.

I hope this case will help young people, women especially, realize that social media can be dangerous. In the 70s, Ted Bundy had to walk the streets looking for the victims with long dark hair. Nowadays, the predator only has to scour social media. It's like the African Baby catalog but with victims!

The way the article puts it cracked me up. “Kohberger’s public defender, Anne Taylor, filed a motion Friday arguing his team had not had enough time to review the “voluminous” evidence produced by the prosecution”.

‘The voluminous evidence, hahaha

"51 Terabytes of data"!!! The investigators are leaving no stone unturned.

[quote]Bryan has a sexual magnetism to him,

[quote] The voluminous evidence, hahaha

What's so funny about that? It probably is a lot of discovery for an attorney to review, especially if you've got more than one client.

R51

I’m sure it is but if you read the other ways the news put it, it is not put that way. I’ve read other articles saying ‘ Suspect in Idaho student killings wants more time to respond to prosecutor’s request for alibi’ for example. (CNN)

Under Idaho law, a criminal defendant normally has 10 days to offer information on whether they plan to provide an alibi showing they were not at the scene when the alleged offense took place – but a judge can extend that deadline.

Btw; remember the defense first came up with that date, and the date was so soon that lawyers were remarking this is a strategy by his lawyer to make it come off like, ‘were fine, go ahead,’

“ Far more important than Kohberger’s silent plea was his defense team’s refusal to waive their client’s “speedy trial” rights.”” If the facts or issues are complex, then defendants should consider waiving their speedy trial rights in order to digest terabytes of discovery and prepare their own defense. In those cases, the prosecution doesn’t need the extra time; the defense does”.

“Kohberger’s team asked for a trial date at the outer limits of the six-month deadline. They are sending a message to the prosecution: put up or shut up. It’s the right call. By all indications, the state is still collecting evidence against Kohberger, and the investigation is already stretching financial resources. And the defense is hoping that the prosecution won’t be ready for trial in six months.

Of course, the timeline impacts both sides. A short turnaround also means that the defense has even less time to prepare for trial. But that’s not a big deal if the defense strategy is primarily to focus on the weakness of the state’s case, and the failures of the investigation. And it seems like that’s exactly what the defense is going to do here.

Unless Kohberger and his lawyer somehow develop an “alternate killer” theory, they are probably planning to just paint law enforcement’s case as shoddy and hurried. They will accuse the police of “tunnel vision” — focusing on the defendant early on, to the exclusion of other viable suspects.

The defense doesn’t need extra time to prepare that trial strategy. But the state in this case could really use the extra time. And Kohberger’s defense team knows it. The speedy trial decision Monday could end up being the most significant defense strategy in this case”.

This move by his lawyer was predicted to go this way from when it started, btw.

But instead it looks like they ‘put up’. The prosecutions got the goods.

And the only magnetism Kohberger’s got is one that holds him to the bars in his cell, IMHO.

What's with his weird purple hands? Maybe they're stained ala Lady Macbeth.

“Kohberger’s attorney during the extradition hearings told NewsNation senior national correspondent Brian Entin there are “holes” in the affidavit. Blok believes since there is a lot of local emotion linked to the case, a change of venue request by the defense is likely in an effort to find a more neutral jury”.

He came in dressed to the nines in a black suit and some say hair gel.

One of the comments online “ He's going for the full Ted Bundy look. Great choice, sir. // The women lawyers sit close to him and smile at him to try to make it appear they are not afraid of him -- which they probably are not under the circumstances”.Susan Basko @Susan Basko. Her Twitter post says she’s a lawyer, btw.

Another, “ I remember when they dressed the Menendez brothers in sweaters to make them look innocent. Didn't work then either”. FLj07@FZj016

Some remark he’s put on weight and it makes him look better. Nice, he’s had time to sit in there and eat enough to get a little better looking….while those kids are all six feet under now, or however the family chose to take care of their remains.

But yes, do follow the law, give him a fair trial by all means but how awful it is, when a person who likely really did this hideous thing gets to primp, have female admirers, watch tv and have the hope he will get out and go home someday while the family grieve the loss of their loved children. Forever.

As long as the venue stays in Idaho, he's fucked.

R583

Looks like he has an imprint from being shackled. Maybe that is what the purplish color is, from being shackled.

Maybe R586, but I feel like they were purple in the vid where he got pulled over too. It's just something weird I noticed, like Val Kilmer's elbow.

I am THE real-life Purple Hands Troll.

His hands were ALWAYS this way, and I assure you, if you go back through the threads, I made a point to note his purple-y hands every time another image or video was released (like his college graduation ceremony). Every time we see this man, he has purple-colored hands, what’s that about, I wonder?

Hey, nice to meet you PHT! I just kinda noticed it offhand (no pun intended) it's weird

I was once in a band called “Val Kilmer’s Elbow.”

Fuck this cunt.

[quote]It probably is a lot of discovery for an attorney to review, especially if you've got more than one client.

Data dumps are a common tactic in discovery. It’s impossible to dig out the pertinent bits in a pile of raw data of that magnitude.

The Proud Boys’ legal team, as large as it is, was freaking out over 4 terabytes. There’s just no way to get through something like that when it’s dumped with no context.

To give some context to what 51 terabytes of data looks like: the entire IRS compliance database is 150 terabytes. That’s ten years of tax returns plus everything associated with them, including but not limited to supporting documentation, audits, court documents, audio/video interviews, etc.

[quote] Data dumps are a common tactic in discovery. It’s impossible to dig out the pertinent bits in a pile of raw data of that magnitude.

The opposite tactic is to turn over only a small, selected bit of video footage - leaving out what happened directly before and directly after. I.e., removing context. That's also frustrating to receive something like that when you know damn well there's more footage.

Kohberger. He is, how you say...Fucked.

HIS DNA found on the sheath under the victim.

This guy seems like a standard issue oily bohunk who ‘s a born loser.

It’s mildly interesting that he was ever so delusional as to think he could pull this off.

R595 he’s definitely narcissistic and overestimated his own intelligence, as narcissistic people do. Everyone else is dumb and they’re the geniuses in the world, according to them. This should be a corrective experience for him, but I’m sure he has many excuses for why he was linked to the murders so as not to damage his fragile ego.

His "corrective experience" will be standing in front a firing squad, if there's any justice. Or sitting in a chair being zapped to the max.

Prosecutors will seek the death penalty.

I wonder if he will come 'back' after he is 'done', you know, like Bundy's ghost.

Part 13, here ...