Broadway's 'Some Like It Hot'

This musical doesn't have a satisfactory plot resolution.

I really hope this show makes it. I saw it in previews and it thoroughly enjoyed it. I laughed all the way through it. The book is pretty good and the singing is great.

Is this a Jukebox musical?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Did they cast Nepobaby Jamie Lee Curtis? She would be perfect in the role of a man dressing up like a woman.

I saw it. Close it.

Nobody's perfect.

So what? Who cares?

Wasn't it already turned into a Broadway musical called "Sugar" with Joe Namath?

Well, comic older women like Jane Lynch need work in 2023--I assume she will play Sweet Sue.

"BIEN-STOCK!!"

[quote]I really hope this show makes it. I saw it in previews and it thoroughly enjoyed it. I laughed all the way through it. The book is pretty good and the singing is great.

This is what the general consensus is about the show - everyone seems to love it, got great critical reviews, yet no one is buying tix. It just hasn't caught on with the tourists yet.

Many are blaming no 'celebrity casting' for the show. They need a name star - or two. That will sell the show.

They should have cast a sexy blonde in the Marilyn part. Going with black actors for Sugar and the Jack Lemmon part makes the show seem PC. As in boring and not fun. Not the only reason but it didn’t help.

[quote]Going with black actors for Sugar

Then they should've renamed her "Molasses."

It has been on TDF but very sparingly, and only for a handful of weekday performances. It hasn't been on there consistently and when it's on it gets gone pretty fast so they must only be giving TDF a small quantity of seats.

It's another BS show using the "non-binary" character as a focal point "discovering" "his/her" true identity. The original is a classic, yet was deemed too politically incorrect for 2022.

My partner and I saw at in previews. We enjoyed the dancing, singing and sets thoroughly, but the storyline had problems.

[quote] They should have cast a sexy blonde in the Marilyn part.

Or a queer Afro Latina. Audiences can’t get enough of that.

Sugar certainly does not work as a black woman in context of the era.

[R13] Which doesn't make any sense - they should release all the unsold seats to TDF (balcony and mezz). Is it that they are trying to preserve 'their brand' by not discounting ? It's not working.

The argument then, R18, is people then say "well I can always grab a ticket on TDF" and they don't prioritize going. Papering doubles down on this, saying "they're not selling I can probably get a comp somehow most anytime." And there's nothing worse in NYC than the freebie crowd, truly.

So I understand the argument, and I think it's valid: if you want to come to the show, see it and judge it, and tell others what your opinion is, you're at least going to pay a decent price to do so.

TDF is only meant to be a sliver of a revenue stream anyway for a show. I doubt any show on Broadway could survive--even if it were selling out--if all the tickets had been sold at TDF prices.

Seriously, what is the difference between this show and Sugar? I gather there is some.

For us non-Broadway vets, what does TDF stand for?

Theatre Development Fund, r21.

And the show was on TDF CONSTANTLY during a month of previews and into the first couple of weeks AFTER the rave reviews appeared. If they can only sell tickets on TDF they can't make enough weekly profit to sustain the show so for an expensive show like this to run and recoup. they must not only sell full-price consistently but sell lots of premium-priced tickets as well. The show costs almost a million dollars to run every week with everyone's salaries, royalties, understudy rehearsals and the elaborate costume and set maintenance. Those bugle beads don't get sewn back on by themselves.

Nobody is interested except theatre queens and theater nerds who have to see everything.

TDF is an amazing organization, R21, Theatre Development Fund. In addition to the TKTS booth for the general public in Times Sq., they do so, so many things to get people to the theatre who wouldn't otherwise be able to attend, or couldn't attend as often--for money/access reasons. They help grow the next generation of theatregoers with their arts in education programs.

You don't have to be a New Yorker to join. An industry professional, teachers, clergy, seniors...TDF is the best.

Who pays for this amazing organization?

Why don't they show Cristian Boyle in drag but feature J. Harrison Ghee all over the trailer?

I don't know "Sugar" is such an iconic character, I only see Monroe in the role. I have the DVD signed by Tony Curtis.

[quote]They should have cast a sexy blonde in the Marilyn part.

They should have cast Mariah Carey. She has the seductive shape for the role, and she's the closest to Monroe we have.

Plus she can still pass for twenty five.

"Sugar" was a supporting role in Wilder's movie.

[quote]Plus she can still pass for twenty five.

In what, dog years?

[quote]"Sugar" was a supporting role in Wilder's movie.

Technically, the female lead.

Not sure why this merited its own thread when it has been discussed at great length in the Theatre Gossip thread

Marilyn Monroe justifiably got billing over Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon for her "supporting" role, r28

Borle looks too grotesque in drag for the ads and promos. Definitely not tourist or family friendly. I don't get why he's so often in short sleeved dresses. It sure doesn't help the illusion.

I find it hard to believe this show doesn’t run at least until the Tony Awards. They have a good chance of winning best musical.

Why are you posting this shit outside the Broadway thread OP? No one cares. This thread will be dead in 3…2…

[quote]And the show was on TDF CONSTANTLY during a month of previews and into the first couple of weeks AFTER the rave reviews appeared.

We just finished the second week AFTER the rave reviews appeared. The show has not been on TDF constantly. Where do you get your information from ?

R32 Wilder said that Monroe brought in the moolah.

But it's obvious that she was half asleep in the 15 minutes she appeared on screen.

Is there a Best Song in it? Something they could market on TV, even a few notes? If it was clearly original and melodic I might be interested.

r,34, that'll be a lot of losing weeks (24?) until the Tony Awards. Is it worth it when Kimberly Akimbo is likely to win the Best Musical Tony. Not to mention New York, New York.

I knew it was on TDF CONSTANTLY during previews because that's when I saw the show and I was checking TDF every day for a date that worked for me.

Not Monroe BEST movie but she's very good. What is her true screen time in this? It's surely not 15 minutes. But then....

Funny, I've seen the film countless times, from 1959 as a kid with my parents to last year on TV, and never thought of MM's role as being particularly small. If it is, it sure makes an enormous impact. The 3 musical numbers alone are absolutely unforgettable.

The scenes with Tony Curtis on the beach and on the yacht are classic. She had a reasonable amount of screen time and she was fantastic, as much trouble for Billy Wilder as she may have been. Outstanding cast, Billy Wilder was amazing- just the best.

It's a very fun, well done show. I hope they run and pick up momentum in sales.

It may have been on TDF during previews, but what matters now are the ticket sales since it opened on December 11 - and so far, it's been a box office bomb. Despite the fact that it's been playing to half empty houses (on a holiday week, no less) it has not been put up on TDF or TKTS with any regularity to increase attendance. It's like it has a deathwish of some sorts.

I'd love to see it run just to keep everyone at the Shubert employed. But what else can be done to bring audiences in? They're running a TV commercial, have gotten exposure and performed numbers from the show on TV and it's much too early to replace a cast member with a 'name.'.

Frankly, I think some critics seemed to be bending over backward to give rave reviews to the show (and not be overly-critical) as a "big old-fashioned musical hit" they thought audiences were craving. Well, they were wrong. Jesse Green, I'm looking at you.

Maybe Broadway needs to stop drag queen shows. Movie drag queen shows. Tootsie Mrs doubtfire. This. Victor/victoria. Hairspray. What else? I sware they’ve done them all. Also - it’s just too expensive to see a show. Even the discount places are too expensive. Today’s tix. All that. The shows with movie /tv stars do ok or good. Do you think a limited run - of everything- would work? Did people -post covid- just wtite off Btoadway as a way to spend their cash? It’s strange.

The show would work much better as farce.

But that requires political incorrectness.

And that's a big no-no to the SJWs.

I wasn’t expecting much, but I laughed and laughed and laughed. I even tested up twice. It’s a big, splashy. FUN show with a spectacular ensemble. The leads are very fine — but Kevin DelAguila is sensational and steals every scene he’s in.

That is, I teared up. Oy.

The ticket prices are just too high nowadays.

It either has to be amazing or no one is spending $300 per orchestra seats.

Producers, you made your bed.

Broadway really could try bringing over a genuine London panto -- hire Ian McKellen next year -- he just did one in the UK and, of course, is a big name.. Besides, it'll provide tons of fodder for here and other theater boards.

The problem is they're not really doing Some Like It Hot. The film is justifiably famous and recognizable for what it is. Making drastic changes doesn't sit well with audiences. Adding more music to make a full-on musical, great. Changing the characters from their very core character and ethnicity doesn't work. It's no longer what the title suggests. The audience feels duped. Might as well change the title too. Some Like It Lukewarm Virtue Signaling.

[quote]Maybe Broadway needs to stop drag queen shows. Movie drag queen shows. Tootsie Mrs doubtfire. This. Victor/victoria. Hairspray. What else?

We still have 1983's "Yentl" to kill on stage. With Lea Michele as 'Yentl'.

Wasn't 'Priscilla, Queen of the Desert' a hit a while back ? And 'Kinky Boots' was a huge hit.

Priscilla was a huge flop.

Anyone who cares about Some Like It Hot, the movie, is dead.

[Quote] Maybe Broadway needs to stop drag queen shows. Movie drag queen shows. Tootsie Mrs doubtfire. This. Victor/victoria. Hairspray. What else?

Think of the children!!!

The movie is a classic, and it's well known.

[Quote] The movie is a classic, and it's well known.

By dead people

Rex Reed liked it with one major reservation: Regrettably, I find Adrianna Hicks a less thrilling member of the cast. She sings so loud you can hear her in New Jersey, but without a personality to match, there’s a sameness to her numbers that is enervating. Through the years, truthful horror stories about Marilyn Monroe’s endless problems during the filming of Some Like it Hot that nearly drove Billy Wilder insane have reached mythic proportions (57 re-takes for a three-word line?), but among her many unimpeachable charms as Sugar was a ditzy glamor the role’s current occupant seriously lacks.

Well, r60, it seemed clear to me, FWIW (nothing!) that the SLIH musical creators didn't want their Sugar to be ditzy. I thought Adrianna Hicks provided the only warmth and sincerity in the entire production, not that it made up for much.

[quote]it's much too early to replace a cast member with a 'name.'.

I think after the debacle of "Funny Girl" and keeping Beanie in the show for 2 months longer than they need to, Broadway has realized it's never too early to replace a leading cast member who is just not working out. I bet if the producers of 'FG' could turn back time, they would have put Lea Michele in back in June once the box office dropped. Bump these to leads out, bring in names like Neil Patrick Harris and Justin Timberlake (since they're not doing 'The Music Man') charge your premium ticket prices - and watch this show become a hit.

R61 they wanted black Sugar but what is Sugar if not ditzy?

They should change the cast to all Black and ask Pearl Bailey to star!

Even Funny Girl is no longer selling out there are a number of seats available during this holiday season. How long can the Neil Diamond musical A Beautiful Noise last?

Just like with Some Like It Hot, all Neil Diamond’s fans are dead

The Diamond musical will really begin to falter by February.

Yes, R48, I need to repeat what you said—

"Wokeness is destroying the arts"

So, is "wokeness" just a fad or has the train left the station for good? Will we ever see another deliciously raunchy musical on Broadway again?

"Wokeness" is the new version of Christian evangelism.

The switch started after the war with its Hiroshima ad Auschwitz. And then came the 1950s, the anti-heroes, and Spock and Secularism and Hanoi Jane and three generations of selfishness.

R60, Rex Reed has the balls to review another Broadway musical after his embarrassing Funny Girl review?

[quote]Even Funny Girl is no longer selling out there are a number of seats available during this holiday season.

I believe just the Thursday shows are not selling out since star Lea Michele is off, and her alternate goes on. That's the night attendance drops. Of the performances in which LM is on stage, you'd be lucky to find a ticket. (It's a repeat of when Bette Midler was in 'Hello Dolly' and her alternate 'Donna Murphy' took Tuesday nights and some Sunday matinees - those performances never sold out).

'Funny Girl' was at death's door this summer, with Beanie in the role. LM brought it back to life and has made it a box office hit. Producers best try and keep LM in for as long as possible.

[Quote] I believe just the Thursday shows are not selling out since star Lea Michele is off, and her alternate goes on. That's the night attendance drops.

No there are good seats available virtually every night if you are willing to shell out $544 which includes fees for good seats on the aisle in the orchestra and mezzanine and for matinees including a holiday matinee at 2pm on Friday December 30 that will cost $394 for the best seats. Prices go down after the holiday and many are available for $394 and $272.in January Check it out on Broadway.com

Tourists are not flocking to NYC as in previous Decembers.

Lea, Ramin and Tovah are contracted through June. Lea is taking a week off in February.

“Lea is taking a week off in February.”

How unprofessional.

[Quote]Tourists are not flocking to NYC as in previous Decembers.

True. last year it was Omicron and this year it was the weather, but NY and Broadway have not really fully recovered from the pandemic.

I was available to play Sugar; and yet no one contacted me to play it! I would have given over and above a full 75% for a role like that!!

RACISTS!!

To DL trolls, woke means it contains black actors.

To DL trolls, woke means saying 'No' to The Lavarious Slaughter Theatre Company.

And trans. Don't forget they and them, r79.

[quote]No there are good seats available virtually every night if you are willing to shell out $544 which includes fees for good seats on the aisle in the orchestra and mezzanine and for matinees including a holiday matinee at 2pm on Friday December 30 that will cost $394 for the best seats. Prices go down after the holiday and many are available for $394 and $272.in January Check it out on Broadway.com

I'm willing to bet those seats you are seeing still available for this week will be sold before curtain time. (Same with 'Music Man' - people have been going to the box office day of the show - just hours before showtime - and have found some seats still available at exorbitant prices...and bought them !) LM is selling out just about every damn show she's in. She's been a lifesaver for investors.

On the other hand, people have posted photos from inside the theater right before the curtain went up at 'SLIH' and the theater is mostly empty. That's terrifying, to say the least.

Maybe those seats in the photos at SLIH are unsold. Or maybe it's some smart alecks taking photos a 1/2 hour before the show starts and the ticket holders simply haven't arrived yet?

I'm no fan of SLIH but I wouldn't believe everything I see online, especially in theater chatrooms.

SLIH does not have the built in advantage of a name in the cast.

I mean, Christian Borle?

I know who Christian Borle is and I'm not a huge theater goer. He was sexy as hell as Shakespeare in Something Rotten.

Recession is keeping people away. That's an expensive night out for most people.

I don’t think people are staying away because of a black Sugar or a trans storyline — they probably don’t even know those things are part of the show.

I do think they need some marquee names, asap.

Oscar winner Ariana DeBose would be great in the Sugar role… but, since names, what about Niecy Nash?

I pray this spells the end of movie to stage transfers.

R85, If you asked 100 people outside of NYC at random, perhaps 2-3 would know who Christian Borle was.

Why can I not have ORDER!? Order, order, ORDER!!

Seeing men in dresses used to be a novelty and people felt comfortable laughing. Not at them but with them and the situations they found themselves in. Now you can see men in dresses on the subway and walking up Fifth Avenue. Tootsie flopped. Doubtfire flopped twice. Take the hint.

[quote]In what, dog years?

No, Plutonian Cave Beast years.

While I agree Christian Borle managed a certain sort of sexy swagger in Something Rotten, 8 years later, he ain't got it no more.

R91, good point.

What's the storyline change from the movie?

[quote]I don’t think people are staying away because of a black Sugar or a trans storyline —

I do.

r95, one of the changes from the film is Jerry as Daphne realizes he loves dressing, behaving, etc. as a woman and proudly declares it to everyone. Instead of Oscar responding "Nobody's perfect" he tells Daphne "You're perfect just the way you are." I may be slightly paraphrasing that.

The story of SLIH has little resonance today. It’s not dangerous; it’s not risqué.

And it's not funny. Which is perhaps most pertinent to the show's problems.

Just to clarify both Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire had TERRIBLE scores and books. Maybe this is the problem?

I would say, people associate Some Like It Hot with MARILYN MONROE. The producers here apparently didn’t get that message.

R100, Who cares? I have my Tony.

[quote]Recession is keeping people away. That's an expensive night out for most people.

This is it exactly - for this show and every other on Broadway.

Prices for tickets are ridiculous, tourists are tightening their pocketbooks, and credit card interest rates are on the rise (it was reported today the average is just under 20%). Add all this to Christmas shopping, and if a couple or a family want to see something on Broadway this week, they are going to choose very carefully...and choose only one (unlike years past).

If they've seen 'Lion King', 'Hamilton', 'Wicked' and 'Aladdin' already, they will turn to something new - and that's going to be 'Music Man' or 'Funny Girl'. Name stars with high ticket prices. 'SLIH' just has high ticket prices - no star.

There's not one GREAT song in the score; just a bunch of C+ songs, and the sound design was terrible. The show screams at you all night, so there's no humanity to be found.

[quote] The story of SLIH has little resonance today

The Chicago mobsters of the 1920s bears little resemblance to the Chicago mobsters of today.

I don’t understand how a well-reviewed, brand new musical only sold 52% of the house for week ending December 25.

There’s nothing exciting or unique about it. Despite the attempt to make it contemporary by touching on racism and focusing on gender identity, it just feels like any other relentless Broadway show. It’s not bad, but it just doesn’t feel like something you haven’t seen before.

Words you’ll never hear . . .

“Hey, honey, let’s go see that new Christian Borle show”.

Sadly, the show is circling the drain.

so is NYC and Broadway in general R108

I just saw this the night after it opened, front row (thank you TDF) and I absolutely loved it. Great score, funny book. The direction/choreography was impeccable. But, yes, a totally sexless show (besides Casey Garvin). Surprising it’s not catching on after those rave reviews and it being a great old fashioned show at the Shubert. But the woke apparently broke it.

R110, the book is pure shite, and the score is derivative beyond all measure. However, I agree with you about Casey Garvin :-)

Someone needs to cast Casey Gavin in a project that isn't DOA. He's been in a string of bombs.

Prices for the December 29 show are really cheap compared to Funny Girl

The balcony seats are cheap but far away from the stage

Balcony J17–J19 $64.00 each $49.00 + $15.00 fees

Balcony J14–J16 $64.00 each $49.00 + $15.00 fees

Balcony F110–F111 $84.00 each $69.00 + $15.00 fees

Balcony E103–E104 $84.00 each $69.00 + $15.00 fees

Balcony C2–C4Aisle $108.23 each $79.00 + $29.23 fees

Balcony D112–D113Aisle $108.23 each $79.00 + $29.23 fees

Mezzanine K19–K21 $108.23 each $79.00 + $29.23 fees

Mezzanine K15–K17 $108.23 each $79.00 + $29.23 fees

Mezzanine H107–H108 $135.63 each $99.00 + $36.63 fees

Mezzanine H109–H110 $135.63 each $99.00 + $36.63 fees

Orchestra Q23–Q25Aisle $135.63 each $99.00 + $36.63 fees

Orchestra P18–P20 $135.63 each $99.00 + $36.63 fees

Mezzanine F11–F13 $149.33 each $109.00 + $40.33 fees

Mezzanine E6–E8 $149.33 each $109.00 + $40.33 fees

Orchestra K19–K21 $204.13 each $149.00 + $55.13 fees

Orchestra J15–J17 $204.13 each $149.00 + $55.13 fees

Orchestra M113–M114Aisle $217.83 each $159.00 + $58.83 fees

Orchestra L109–L110 $217.83 each $159.00 + $58.83 fees

Mezzanine C107–C108 $231.53 each $169.00 + $62.53 fees

Mezzanine C109–C110 $231.53 each $169.00 + $62.53 fees

Orchestra C7–C9 $231.53 each $169.00 + $62.53 fees

Orchestra A6–A8 $231.53 each $169.00 + $62.53 fees

Orchestra E105–E106Premium $354.00 each $259.00 + $95.00 fees

Orchestra B101–B102PremiumAisle $354.00 each $259.00 + $95.00 fees Calendar Stage Overhang Overhang

[quote]Someone needs to cast Casey Gavin in a project that isn't DOA. He's been in a string of bombs.

Tell me about it...

R113 who would pay those prices when the show is on tdf and tkts every day, and probably on twofers as well.

R111, Casey Garvin . . .

Why isn’t Andy Karl playing Joe in this? Then it’d be sexy.

I can’t believe they changed “Nobody’s perfect”

People want to see the iconic bits

[quote]Why isn’t Andy Karl playing Joe in this? Then it’d be sexy.

Speaking of people who have been in a string of bombs. I guess one more wouldn't have hurt, at this point.

Andy sure has had a few disappointments.

I’m not sure where the messaging started that the show got “across the board raves,”, but they received mixed to negative reviews in some significant places like the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, NY Post, New York Magazine, The Daily Beast and The Wrap. The Times review is a soft rave - positive, a critic’s pick, but not motivational. Critics no longer have a lot of weight, but the mixed response might reflect a reality where a significant portion of the audience is not as in love with Some Like It Hot as its supporters may think.

Mariah is a co-producer due to her love of Marilyn Monroe

Did y’all read my rave review?

Why does this have its own thread? This show is DOA and will close in January.

Wow, Casey Garvin is hot!

He’s at that peak sexual age where he’s getting so much cock up his ass!

Good for him!

He’s in the chorus?

Or should I say, the ensemble…

Thanks for that corrective, R121. All of the reviews that I personally read were raves except for the NY Post, which I assumed was the outlier. Interesting that Peter Marks of the WaPo didn't like it. I myself am NOT a fan of the show, so in that sense, I'm not surprised that it's tanking.

Even Rex’s review was disappointed by the actress playing Sugar, which seems to me like a crucial element.

Well, here's the weirdest thing. I went to the Washington Post website to check out their review of SOME LIKE IT HOT (I have a subscription) and it is nowhere to be found. A link to what should be the review comes up when I Google "Some Like It Hot review Washington Post," but when I click on that link, it goes to the home page of the website.

So, it really looks to me like the review has been removed. Was there some objection to it from some quarters?

Same thing happens for me, but I found a review incorporated into a larger piece.

Thanks, R131. The plot thickens.

Can we talk a bit about the ensemble (chorus girls and boys) of this show?

Why aren't the girls more stunning? Didn't old-fashioned brassy musicals like this used to be filled with sexy chorines? These gals all seem to be over 40 and not much to look at, and often costumed in unflattering schmattas in odd earth tones. David Merrick and Gower Champion would be embarrassed by this lineup, not to mention Bob Fosse.

Why aren't the boys more stunning? Well, in truth, the old Golden Age musicals often were cast with gorgeous leggy show girl types in the chorus but the boys were usually character actor types but they could really sing and dance. Just think of those Fosse and Champion men compared to their women. But....in this cold climate, a line of hot men wouldn't hurt and might help bring a little more excitement onstage. Casey Garvin is the only guy one notices, but then he's most often cast here as a gangster's goon in a suit......so even he isn't shown to his best advantage.

Never hire chorus girls who are prettier than the star.

Well, Betty, they sure didn't this time.

Good question, R133. Meanwhile, & JULIET has several cuties/hotties in the male chorus, and this one in particular is a real standout.

I had a classmate in college who was absolutely gorgeous and talented. Upon graduation, she landed in the chorus of the first Bway show she tried out for.

Then she found a really rich husband, decided she didn’t want to act any more, and gave it all up to raise a family

Smart girl, r137!

Its overpriced. And pop concerts are overprices as well. Consumers must revolt. Fuck Broadway if they can't figure this out. They can probably run 4 prestige shows with stars and pack the houses at these prices. If Broadway wants to run 30 shows, they need to collaborate on pricing and product, and offer shows non-rich folks can afford, and will enjoy, and not mind the ticket price.

People find the money for shows they want to see.

Exactly. They are producing $200 shows like they are $20 dollar "meh, entertaining I guess" movie products. And the public isn't going to "meh" movies anymore as they are overpriced. Just fabulous movies that suit their tastes.

[quote] Cristian Boyle

Two words, and you got them both wrong.

The problem on Broadway right now is that there are TOO MANY shows - 30. The majority of them are not going to survive, especially right after B'way had been closed down for over a year and tourism still hasn't bounced back. Add to it these shows are charging exorbitant ticket prices - they have no choice but to fail.

The old warhorses will continue to do well (Aladdin, Lion King, Wicked, Hamilton) and the celebrity vehicles (Funny Girl, Music Man) - but bye-bye to the new contenders.

Some Like It Hot is this season’s Mr. Saturday Night.

SLIH went overboard with the wokeness factor.

A black Jerry, a black Sugar and a black Sweet Sue?

^ Some Like It Dark

The perfect storm:

1. No big stars

2. Show, under another name ( Sugar), has been seen before

3. Woke casting and underlying social messages ( people are just tired of hearing this shit)

5. Ticket prices

6. Mixed to negative reviews

7. Hesitance to return to see a show.

8. Unfunny

9. Unsexy

10. Too much tap-dancing

11. Cold weather

12. Lousy-looking chorus boys and girls

R147, I agree with all of those except #2. This show is VERY different from (and far inferior to) SUGAR, and I really don't think anyone is confusing the two.

If the movie is famous for Marilyn, why not go with a sexy blonde lead? Going with a black actress makes it seem like a diversity exercise. Not fun.

R150, I assume the theory was that if they cast someone who was a very different type from Marilyn, audiences would be less prone to compare the two, as in "no one else could ever live up to Marilyn Monroe." I believe that Elaine Joyce, who was much more of a Marilyn type, was not well received in SUGAR.

It IS a diversity exercise and everyone knows it and is rejecting it. When will Broadway learn that audiences come to be entertained, not to see a social justice lecture?

If you think SLIH is a social Justice "lecture," r 152, you clearly haven't seen the show. Go back to Newsmax...

YOU WILL SWALLOW THE BITTER DIVERSITY MEDICINE, TO CURE YOUR STATE OF INSUFFICIENT WOKENESS. THAT WILL BE 250 SMACKERS.

NURSE, SEND IN THE NEXT PATIENT!

Meanwhile over at Death of a Salesman, the cops are helping out...

[quote]If you think SLIH is a social Justice "lecture," r 152, you clearly haven't seen the show.

The show tries to make its woke points about "social justice" in the guise of light entertainment, but the attempt is very inept and confused due to the period setting, which is arguably more annoying than if they had come right and been more blatant about it.

The creative team of “Some Like It Hot” has also updated its story to reflect the changed sensibilities of the current era.

And there are substantial differences that seem to be aiming for new 21st century relevance. Three of the principal characters are now Black – Jerry, Sugar Cane, and Sweet Sue, the bandleader (NaTasha Yvette Williams)Sugar Cane is no longer, like the Marilyn Monroe character in the film, a vulnerable, sexy dumb blonde who says outright “I’m not very bright.” Now she’s a strong Black woman, who sings (in “At The Old Majestic Nickle Matinee”) about how as a child growing up in a small town in Georgia she liked to go to the movies, but “could only use the balcony./Like the movies, life could be that black and white.” So now she wants to break the color barrier in Hollywood, so that “a young girl just like me” would “see someone just like her/so her hopes and dreams would never have to stay/at the old Majestic nickle matinee.”

The band members are now proto-feminists, even proto- social justice warriors. After a bar manager refuses to pay the band what they promised for their performance, they threaten him in a musical number called “Zee Bap,” which includes the lyrics:

Black or white or Latin, Asian, Christian or Jew

It’s awfully nice to know we can all parlez-vous

Say “Zee Bap Zeh Bootalee Atta Feet Bam-Bam”

To any slippery snake who’s trying to make you less than you am.

The most consequential change is surely the character of Daphne. The actor who portrays Daphne, J. Harrison Ghee, who previously portrayed the drag queen Lola in Kinky Boots on Broadway, identifies as non-binary. So it’s probably not a huge surprise that Daphne says “I feel finally seen,” and then “I don’t have the word for what I feel.” But she does have a whole song, “You coulda knocked me over with a feather”:

Well, I have tried to love many ladies

Back when I sang in a much lower key

Now you could knock me over with a feather cause Joe,

The lady that I’m lovin’ is me

David Merrick was the wokeness OG.

Hot needs a melodic catchy score, one actor well known to audiences through TV and or movies and terrific dancing. Sounds like this production has none of those things. The one number I heard sounded like Shaiman was trying really really hard to write a hit song and failing on a college level.

Sugar was pretty mediocre but it had a big advance, a couple of terrific Styne numbers and Morse and Ritchard who were very wonderful. I would have given the Tony that year to Morse. A sensational musical comedy performance. Joyce was a blandly pretty chorus girl with a nose job and no on stage charisma. And Tony Roberts was a dead weight.

It all comes down to whether this an exceptionally entertaining show or not.

Good shows do well. Meh shows don’t.

I have rarely seen a great show close for lack of audience

R159, The one musical number I’ve heard from SLIH sounded a lot like a song from Catch Me If You Can.

Oh my god R157 is that really in there? So who are these people who are saying this bright light attempting to be blissfully entertaining musical comedy isn't using a socially significant message anvil?

For some reason people are saying a song sounds like the theme from Huckleberry Hound. That's pretty bizarre.

R160, of course, it's far more complicated than that, so I wish you wouldn't try to oversimplify the situation. I strongly disliked SLIH but it sure seemed like the bulk of the audience at the show I attended REALLY liked it, based on their response in terms of cheers and applause. And I know that kind of response is sometimes faked by people who want to convince themselves that they're having a great time because they paid so much money for tickets, but it did SEEM to me that it was sincere.

But....maybe not.

For this reason, R163. Here's a link to one of them....

And here's the link to the other one....

The Huckleberry Hound Queen really needs to let this go...

R163, Hey, it can happen.

I know people want to blame a black Sugar and woke ideology on the show’s box office failure, but honestly I don’t think anyone even knows the show exists. Despite the Times review, SLIH has flown under the radar in the city.

I asked my coworkers if they would see a SLIH musical. Their response? What’s SLIH? They didn’t know the movie or that Marilyn was in it. (Most of my coworkers are in their 30s/40s.).

The night I saw it, the audience did really seem into to, so I’ll agree with the poster who said that. Sugar isn’t merely a colorblind casting choice- her role has been actively written to be black. Same with Sweet Sue.

Sue is asked why they aren’t going to escape from Chicago to Florida. Sue says, look at my skin and ask me that again! Ok, let’s go to California! Sugar isn’t a dumb dumb. She’s been a victim of racism all her life and is trying to become a movie star to escape the oppression.

The score is extremely lackluster. That’s the biggest fault of the show. If the score were on the level of hairspray, I’d forgive all the other faults. Because it’s not, the faults are magnified. The dance is nice though and the chase scene near the end is the only inspired set piece in the show.

The wokeness is not being rejected. People don’t know the show exists, let along that it’s woke, in order for it to be rejected. If the masses don’t know the film, they also have nothing to compare it to.

No one knows the color of Sugar so it’s doubtful that’s the reason people are staying away.

Of course the anti-woke folks are stuck on that. But no mention of a Black Juliet in &Juliet which doesn’t seem to have the same attendance problems.

I wouldn't have picked up Huckleberry Hound from that. Though Hound sounds even for a Saturday morning kids show less generic.

In a strange twist, Shaiman recycled “Let’s Be Bad” from Smash in SLIH. In Smash, the song was sung by Hilary as blonde bombshell Marilyn. On stage, it’s been turned over to a male character and is decidedly less funny and certainly stripped of all sexiness.

Tourists who come to the theater and spend gobs of money read reviews of shows before they go. Sorry, but the wokeness of this show and much pof Broadway is turning them off. Just look at the box office receipts of all of the new agenda shows.

[quote]I wouldn't have picked up Huckleberry Hound from that.

I wouldn't have, either, because I didn't know or didn't remember the HH theme. But when someone pointed out the similarity -- and I'm pretty sure it was on the DL, though it may have been elsewhere on social media -- I checked it out, and they're absolutely right.

[Quote] Tourists who come to the theater and spend gobs of money read reviews of shows before they go.

No they don’t!

They choose what they’ve heard about as a hot show. No tourist is looking up NY Times reviews. Please.

[quote]Sorry, but the wokeness of this show and much pof Broadway is turning them off. Just look at the box office receipts of all of the new agenda shows.

Actually ALL the new shows are doing pretty badly. People just aren't returning to theatre yet. Tourists aren't coming to NYC en masse yet.

And what is an agenda show? A show that has a black lead?

I honestly believe the show could have been a huge hit, even as written, if it had simply been conceived and cast with an all Black cast a la the Pearl Bailey DOLLY.

They would have still needed to cast and write Joe (the Tony Curtis role) as a sexy macho type (maybe Tay Diggs or Victor Brandon Dixon?) to bring some sex into the Sugar scenes (instead of the sexless and unfunny Borle) and I think they could have then been more comfortable making Sugar more vulnerable and even ditzy.

Everybody loves to see a full chorus of Blacks tap dancing and singing their hearts out!

First, no one knows that the Marilyn role is played by a Black woman and those who do know aren't thinking "I'm not going because Marilyn role is a black woman!!"

They aren't going because the buzz is nonexistent for this show.

[quote]I honestly believe the show could have been a huge hit, even as written, if it had simply been conceived and cast with an all Black cast a la the Pearl Bailey DOLLY.

Please dont get the racist trolls going. If the show failed, they'd be the first one blaming Black audiences for not supporting "their" show.

The reason the show's not doing well is it's not that great a show. Great shows always get an audience.

R175, Maybe not years ago, but with Internet access on their phones today, they’re fools if they don’t.

R178, Of course they do. She’s been heavily promoted.

[quote]Maybe not years ago, but with Internet access on their phones today, they’re fools if they don’t.

Most don't care. They're going to one show during their NYC visit, so they're going to see which is known to be a hit, won Best Musical, or has buzz.

[quote] Of course they do. She’s been heavily promoted.

Please, I go to Bway all the time and even I didn't know. Mainly, because I didn't care. It's not a musical I have any desire to see so haven't paid any attention to the advertising.

Either have tourists who care even less.

[quote]Great shows always get an audience.

Unfortunately, that's simply not true. A more likely statement is this:

Mediocre shows - if marketed and priced well - will always get an audience, but they're still mediocre shows.

[quote]Of course they do. She’s been heavily promoted.

Only the ancient know the plot of Some Like It Hot.

[quote]Mediocre shows - if marketed and priced well - will always get an audience, but they're still mediocre shows.

Such as?

The only excellent show that had trouble finding an audience recently was A Strange Loop--and maybe I thought it was excellent because I'm gay. The subject matter and the sex scene kept it off most people's must-see list.

[quote]Such as?

Mamma Mia

Oh! Calcutta!

Cats

Broadway is dead. And good riddance. There will always be good theater throughout the city.

[quote]I believe that Elaine Joyce, who was much more of a Marilyn type, was not well received in SUGAR.

Maybe it wasn't so much that she couldn't live up to Marilyn as it was that Elaine had little charm or talent. She couldn't even sing. There's a reason she ended up doing mostly game shows.

[quote]David Merrick was the wokeness OG.

Calling Pearly Bailey leading an all-black version of "Hello, Dolly!" (to great success) in the 1960s an early example of "wokeness" is beyond idiotic,

Obviously, R190 is unaware of the racial climate in this country in the mid to late 1960s.

David Merrick’s idea of an all black Hello, Dolly! cast was an act of opportunistic genius.

[Quote] Mamma Mia, Oh! Calcutta!, Cats

It’s only in retrospect can we consider those shows mediocre. In fact, they were rather revolutionary for their times. Mamma Mia was the first major jukebox musical before they became rampant. The idea was original at the time. Cats was a cultural phenomenon. Oh Calcutta was risqué and forbidden.

There were a lot of people back then who thought those shows were mediocre but they hit the zeitgeist. Kind of like Hellzapoppin.

Then POTUS LBJ and Lady Bird were huge fans of Hello, Dolly! and saw it several times, with Carol and Pearl.

Can we also talk about how awful the poster is?

For the week ending on Christmas Day, SLIH lost more than 20% of it's audience from the week prior (ending 12/18).

The theater filled only 52% of its seats for the week, with the Christmas tourists in the city.

Knowing Shaiman and Wittman just a little I can only imagine how devastated and downright confused they both must be by the failure here.

Tee-hee.

R197, Are they still no longer a couple?

That's correct, r198.

Not many people have mentioned it, but I thought Osgood was a series of bad choices. His Mexican lineage felt very forced. I’ve never seen more than a few clips of the film, so that may be in the original (doubtful). But the unfunny, forced performance really undercut what they were trying to do with Daphne. Zero chemistry, which was especially bad since J. Harrison Ghee gave the closest thing to an authentic performance in the show.

This is a musical no one except producers wanted to see on Broadway.

I thought the same thing, when Osgood was now Latino, I was OMG, what the hell show is this? Since they took away “nobody’s perfect” from him, There was a lot of buildup but no payoff.

Robert Morse promoting Sugar as WML? mystery guest at 21:00, with Tony Roberts on the panel.

The theory used to be that you shouldn't musicalize a property if you can't improve upon it. Neither adaptation of SLIH succeeded in doing that. And this one fails in more spectacular ways. Noise and excessive tapping can't disguise what at the center is a noisy, charmless enterprise.

I also agree about the failure of the conception of the Osgood character and his Mexican lineage (what does that have to do with anything?). And while I thought Aguilar was fine and brought a little much-needed warmth to the show, it was hardly the revelatory star-making performance that the better reviews and word of mouth made it out to be.

He will lose the Featured Tony to that cute Black kid who plays Kimberly Akimbo's bf.

[quote]They aren't going because the buzz is nonexistent for this show.

You may be right, but whether a show has "buzz" or not is largely comes down to each person's perception. Before SOME LIKE IT HOT opened, and tanked, my impression was that it had great buzz -- at least, among hardcore theater enthusiasts. Of course, I have no idea what kind of buzz, if any, it had among the general public.

[quote]The reason the show's not doing well is it's not that great a show. Great shows always get an audience.

Please tell me you don't REALLY believe that, with SO MANY examples to disprove your statement.

[quote]Knowing Shaiman and Wittman just a little I can only imagine how devastated and downright confused they both must be by the failure here.

I remember that Shaiman went on social media and railed against criticism of CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY. In that case, he went on and on about how the audience was responding to the show with cheers and standing ovations, and he basically said fuck you to all the professional and amateur critics who didn't like the show. I don't follow him anymore, so I don't know what if anything he has written on social media about SLIH tanking. Anyone?

I feel like Shaiman and Wittman wrote Mariposa first and then were like, oh no, how do we incorporate this song into the show? I know! Let’s make Osgood half-Mexican! They’ll go south of the border for tamales one night! Brilliant!

Remember when Ben Brantley gave an unqualified rave review for Honeymoon in Vegas and anointed Tony Danza as a full fledged Broadway musical star?

Don't remember that. But was Tony ever a chorus boy?

[quote]The creative team of “Some Like It Hot” has also updated its story to reflect the changed sensibilities of the current era.

What a fucking ridiculous thing to do.

Broadway currently sees its #1 priority and task to create jobs for non-white actors especially black actors in any roles, regardless how suitable such casting might be. Actors Equity is especially onboard with same.

R209 . . .

[quote]probably on twofers as well.

I loved twofers when I was a poor gayling, but I don’t think they’ve been around for 20 years or so, right? The TKTS booth probably helped to kill them off.

Twofers died out with the legitimate theatre.

R213, For those unaware, Peter Gabel, only child of Arlene Francis and Martin Gabel, died in October of a heart attack at 75.

[Quote] Please tell me you don't REALLY believe that, with SO MANY examples to disprove your statement.

Please give us a list of all the wonderful shows that never found an audience

When I was a kid visiting NYC, I’d collect all the two-fer coupons because just having the coupon with the show pictured was glamorous enough for me

R215, Bonnie and Clyde and Chaplin, to name two.

R210, since no one knows or cares what the original movie was about, why is it ridiculous to change the race of the main actress? Why does it even matter?

R218, Because it’s 2022 and Black Lives Matter! Haven’t you heard?

The audience doesn’t care. &Juliet is woke to the extreme and is selling well

[Quote] Bonnie and Clyde and Chaplin, to name two.

Those are your examples of wonderful shows that never found an audience?

Seriously?

Obviously, R221 never saw them.

[quote]Please give us a list of all the wonderful shows that never found an audience

I could do that. Over the years, I've seen quite a few wonderful shows that never found an audience. But I'm not going to bother to give you a list, because chances are that you did NOT see them, so there's no point in arguing with you. P.S. I've also seen many, many shows that closed swiftly even though they were far better overall than other shows than literally ran for years, even decades. And that's because popular appeal does not always equal artistic excellence. Plus, of course, this is all a matter of opinion.

I will give one current example: KIMBERLY AKIMBO is apparently struggling greatly at the box office even though it deservedly got stellar reviews across the board and everyone who does see it seems to love it. It may hopefully find an audience if it can hang on through the awards season and wins the Best Musical Tony, which is very likely, but it has not yet found its audience just because it's wonderful and everyone says so.

R223, I saw Kimberly Akimbo and yes it’s good. It biggest problem is it’s too small a show to be in a Bway theatre. I had great seats but even with those, the show sort of disappeared. Plus, I can’t remember a single song.

It may be a good show, but “wonderful” is a stretch.

Kimberly Akimbo just be failing because it’s too woke with its interracial romance and all…

[Quote] Obviously, [R221] never saw them.

Nope. They got mediocre reviews and no one else saw them either.

But according to you, they were just wonderful! Sure, they were.

R226, They were, indeed. Ask anyone who actually saw them.

R224, again and of course, it's all a matter of opinion, but the majority opinion seems to be that KIMBERLY AKIMBO is pretty wonderful. Yes, it's a small show, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because I prefer quality over size (!) And the producers were smart enough to put it in one of the smaller Broadway houses originally meant for plays only, not one of the larger theaters meant for musicals.

Everyone with any knowledge of Broadway theater knows that, over the years, there have been any number of shows that many critics and audience members considered truly wonderful but which did not find an audience for one reason or another. So, R226 et al, please just admit you're wrong and shut the hell up.

Breakfast at Tiffany’s, anyone?

[Quote] Everyone with any knowledge of Broadway theater knows that, over the years, there have been any number of shows that many critics and audience members considered truly wonderful but which did not find an audience for one reason or another.

But, oddly, no one can actually name any such shows

R230, I named one, and I gave my very sound reasons why I'm NOT going to bother to provide you with a list -- namely, (1) that you likely did not see the shows in question, so you wouldn't be able to argue with me on that basis, and (2) whether or not a show is "wonderful" is all a matter of opinion anyway.

Okay, here are a few more: GROUNDHOG DAY, the original Broadway production of CAROLINE, OR CHANGE, and that amazing Steppenwolf production of THE GRAPES OF WRATH. Now of course, if you saw any of those, you're going to say that YOU hated them, so your point stands. But I wish you'd just give it a rest and admit you were wrong.

Groundhog Day was cute but I came out of there wondering—what was the point of seeing that?

I loved Caroline or Change but it likely went over most people’s heads.

Would the "I always going to scream WOKE FAILS" troll please go back to Newsmax, or wherever you're from, and leave the rest of us alone. Your hatred is boring.

So no there’s aren’t tons of wonderful shows that can’t find an audience. Maybe one or two every now and again—but wonderful is extraordinarily subjective.

I think "Great Comet" from a few seasons back is one of those wonderful shows which didn't find an audience - the backstage drama overshadowed the great reviews and great word of mouth. When I got tickets to an upcoming show that summer, I had to wait for daily updates to see whether the show was closing each day or not - due to the 'casting drama' when they wanted to get rid of Oak. It was a big mess - and I think it kept potential audiences away.

We’re all sick to death of Jukebox and Movie-to-stage shows. I have no desire to see any show based on Some Like It Hot, no matter how good it may be.

[Quote] I think "Great Comet" from a few seasons back is one of those wonderful shows which didn't find an audience.

It didn’t find an audience because it wasn’t so great. The critics kept pushing it like it was some godsend. It barely had a plot.

All I remember about The Great Comet was I sat in front of the Dem Senator from VA (whose name I can’t recall) and he was being a real asshole to his family members sitting with him

Bonnie and Clyde was a charming show with a lovely score.

Frank Wildhorn needs to stay in Yugoslavia where he is LOVED!

[quote]So no there’s aren’t tons of wonderful shows that can’t find an audience. Maybe one or two every now and again—but wonderful is extraordinarily subjective.

Right. And subjectively, in my opinion, there have been quite a few wonderful shows that have not found an audience over the many years that I've been seeing Broadway theater. Even 'one or two every now and again" mounts up to a lot over the decades.

Thanks, R235, THE GREAT COMET is another great example of a wonderful show that did not find an audience, though I don't think it was entirely because of the Poison Oak controversy. The show apparently started to struggle as soon as Josh Groban left, and Mandy was only scheduled to come in for a few weeks. So unless they had found some other mega-star to go into the Groban role for an extended run, which is unlikely, I'm pretty sure it would have closed quickly anyway.

Oh, here's another wonderful show that didn't find an audience to keep it open more than 11 months: the 2014 revival of ON THE TOWN. A wonderful production overall, whatever its flaws.

[quote] It barely had a plot.

Excuse me?

The creators made the ridiculous mistake of mis-casting the 3 leading roles. Borle doesn't come close to the sexiness needed for the Tony Curtis role and is too old and drab. Ghee is a total unknown and well, who gives a fuck? They needed a name for someone who could be sexy AND funny while out of place in a dress. And Hicks? Hicks is an amateur. She doesn't have a believable moment in the show. Nicholaw believes he can turn any average schlubs into a star. Well, he can't, and no one is going to pay good money to see has-beens and unknowns.

R244, I agree that miscasting is one of the show's biggest problems. Borle is a brilliant comic actor and has been great in previous shows, such as PETER AND THE STARCATCHER, LITTLE SHOP, and the Encores! LITTLE ME, but he's really not right for his role in SLIH. Ghee has a very good voice and is an excellent dancer, but he seems to have little or no inherent comedic talent, and he's laughably miscast in his role because he's SO tall that it destroys all credibility even in a show that requires a great suspension of disbelief. I can't really comment on Hicks, because I thought her role was so badly written that it's hard to say whether or not she was miscast.

[Quote] Excuse me?

The Great Comet is based on a few pages of War and Peace. It has a thread bare plot and a lot of running around the stage.

Not only couldn’t it find an audience on Bway, it couldn’t find an audience on tour—which tells me it wasn’t so wonderful

Idiots and how stupid to change the original story, campiness and feel.

R246, it has more than enough plot for a two and a half hour musical, and I highly doubt that the supposed lack of a plot has ANYTHING to do with why the show wasn't more successful on Broadway and on tour.

[Quote] Even 'one or two every now and again" mounts up to a lot over the decades.

Not really because audiences find the truly good shows. That said, while some may find some neglected shows as wonderful gems, if most people didn’t, it was likely for less popular tastes.

Most Sondheim shows are great examples. Sure they have intricate lyrics and character interactions but they don’t speak to most audiences. Are they “wonderful”? Most don’t think so apparently

[Quote] it has more than enough plot for a two and a half hour musical, and I highly doubt that the supposed lack of a plot has ANYTHING to do with why the show wasn't more successful on Broadway and on tour.

It had so little a plot that I came out of it wondering what the fuck it was about

[240] The reason it closed on Broadway was thanks to Cynthia Ervivo and her protests of "racism" when they wanted to replace Oak (who replaced Groban) a few weeks earlier than when his contract was up, with Mandy Patinkin. Oak was not a good fit for the role, could not play the instruments he was supposed to learn, and called out for many performances - but that didn't matter to Ervivo. She cried 'racism' (even though at least half the cast was made up of POC) and that was the end of that. Thanks to Ervivo, and the financial loss she ended up costing the B'way production, the tour didn't have a chance.

Another great show still looking for an audience:

The Rink

I think that’s the first time ever that “great show” and “The Rink” have ever been in the same sentence.

[quote] I loved Caroline or Change but it likely went over most people’s heads.

except yours of course r232

I'm not the upthread poster who brought up The Rink as a show that didn't get the audience it deserved, but I did see a workshop of the show in the 1990s at Manhattan Theatre Club that had Dorothy Loudon in the Chita role and a girl named Julie Johnson in Liza's role, directed by Joe Mantello.

It was barely staged but absolutely terrific. I think this must have been around the time of Love! Valour! Compassion! and MTC hoped to produce the show for Terrence McNally. Obviously, it never happened but it was surprisingly wonderful (I didn't see the original production).

I saw the OBP twice. It was a show specifically written to win Chita her first Tony.

Great Comet was a wonderful show, though perhaps not in its Broadway incarnation. I saw the first tent production way, way off-Broadway (before it moved to the second, larger tent) and it was thrilling and brilliant. The staging in the tent was beyond inspired and never translated well to proscenium stage at the Imperial. Still, it was a wonderful show and under appreciated.

Caroline, or Change (NOT the revival, but the OBC) was wonderful. Same with LaChiusa’s Wild Party. Grey Gardens was a flop and BRILLIANT. Bridges of Madison Country was not brilliant, but Kelli’s singing was enthralling and should have guaranteed a longer run. Passing Strange is probably the best show of the 2000-2010 decade and flopped. [tos] was wonderful in every way and couldn’t find an audience. And these are just the musicals.

Chaplin was dreadful. That was a dud that deserved it.

Chaplin was everything a Broadway musical should be.

[quote]While some may find some neglected shows as wonderful gems, if most people didn’t, it was likely for less popular tastes. Most Sondheim shows are great examples. Sure they have intricate lyrics and character interactions but they don’t speak to most audiences. Are they “wonderful”? Most don’t think so apparently

How weird. You made that comment intending it to bolster your own argument, but instead, it bolsters mine.

R251, thanks for reminding everyone of that horrendous situation, but please let's be sure to spell that despicable woman's name right, for the record. It's Cynthia Erivo, not Ervivo.

[quote]be sure to spell that despicable woman's name right, for the record. It's Cynthia Erivo, not Ervivo.

It could be Cissy Thunderpants for all I care.

[quote] . I don't get why he's so often in short sleeved dresses.

Borle is inordinately proud of his biceps and arms.

Precisely the reason he should not be showing them off as Josephine, r262. But then you know that.

[quote] The reason it closed on Broadway was thanks to Cynthia Ervivo and her protests of "racism" when they wanted to replace Oak (who replaced Groban) a few weeks earlier than when his contract was up, with Mandy Patinkin.

The real reason it closed was that it wasn't selling tickets. Do you think producers would have closed the show if it were a smash hit?

[quote] How weird. You made that comment intending it to bolster your own argument, but instead, it bolsters mine.

No, you're just making the erroneous assumption that, by definition, every Sondheim show must be wonderful.

[R260] I didn't want to give her the satisfaction of spelling her name correctly.

Best part about the whole catastrophe was that she then shut off comments on her Twitter when everyone reminded her she just put hundreds of people on the unemployment line due to her ridiculous call of 'RACISM!' And most of those people were POC.

I loved Passing Strange but knew it would never find an audience. It's not what tourists want to pay money to see. Same with Caroline or Change. And my god, Grey Gardens was nice nut nowhere near brilliant.

The fact that I found Passing Strange and Caroline or Change wonderful is really about my having seen tons and tons of shows, both crap and fantastic. Those two were great when compared to everything else. If you only see one show in a lifetime (or even every few years, you'd likely scratch your head and wonder WTH?

[quote] Best part about the whole catastrophe was that she then shut off comments on her Twitter when everyone reminded her she just put hundreds of people on the unemployment line due to her ridiculous call of 'RACISM!' And most of those people were POC.

I detest the "You can't say anything bad about a show because it'll put people out of work" argument. If it's crap on the stage, I'm calling it out.

I'm hoping that Kimberly Akimbo can hold on the same way The Band's Visit did and ultimately win the Best Musical Tony. It is by far the best musical I've seen this season. Victoria Clark, the kid who plays her boyfriend and the woman who plays her aunt are all great.

[quote]Precisely the reason he should not be showing them off as Josephine. But then you know that.

Precisely the reason he shows them off as Josephine, R263. But then you know that.

This has been an exceptionally boring Bway season.

SOME LIKE MY TWAT!

[R264] Very wrong.

The show was a sell-out when it opened with Josh Groban in the lead and right up until he left his scheduled run. It was impossible to get tickets at the time. They then contracted Patinkin to take the role, but he wasn't available for a few months so they hired Oak (an actor of color) to fill in for a few months until Patinkin was available. They figured Oak would hold the box office, since he had name recognition from 'Hamilton' (where he just finished his run).

However, Oak had to learn different instruments for the role and he had to learn his lines - it was well known he didn't do either. He didn't show up for rehearsals, He came unprepared for his performances, and then started calling out. The box office was then losing money due to bad word of mouth of his performance and behavior. Patinkin let the producers know he was able to take over the role four weeks before he originally said he was available. He was ready to step in and help the box office. The producers were willing to pay Oak the remainder of his contract even though he was being let go a few weeks early.

Oak's 'people' (which included his friend Cynthia Evivo) leaked to the press that he was being fired because he was black, and was being replaced by 'a white man'. Evivo was all over Twitter telling fans to boycott the show and to protest outside the theater. She didn't give a shit about the cast and crew of POC whom were being subject to this, as well. At that point, Patinkin decided he didn't want to get involved and pulled out. The producers had no other actor lined up since no one wanted to get near the shitstorm Evivo caused that summer. They had no choice but to close it down.

Evivo then acted like 'the victim' asking why everyone was attacking her on Twitter. All she did was cry 'racism' like any black woman would do in a case like this.

R273, Um, yes, after Groban left, the box office died. The producers also understood that while Patinkin would help it somewhat, no one had the fan base that Groban did. Sure, the talk about replacing a black lead didn't help, but the producers understood that no one could bring it back and closed it.

R273 well, she probably did bother to get people’s names right.

[Quote]This has been an exceptionally boring Bway season.

but to be fair with jukebox musicals and film to stage adaptations Pretty Woman, Mean Girls, Mrs. Doubtfire, Tootsie, Beetlejuice . . . proliferating, Broadway has been unoriginal and boring for years and even the overhyped, over praised and overpriced Hamilton was pretty boring as well. After 40 mins of wall-to-wall undistinguished songs, I wanted to leave.

[quote]No, you're just making the erroneous assumption that, by definition, every Sondheim show must be wonderful.

If you won't allow that even the most beloved Sondheim shows are considered "wonderful" by consensus, I'm curious as to what shows you DO think deserve that description. But I hate to ask.

The lead producers of NATASHA & PIERRE, Howard & Janet Kagan, were stingy hedge fund millionaires with little experience on Broadway. Very disliked among their colleagues. In think they've since divorced and left the Broadway scene.

I really have no horse in this race and little interest in the shower but my take: is you’re all right. It is just one factor leading to the poor box office it’s all of them.

I like the film, it has its long stretches but I enjoy it.I don’t love it I saw the Tony Curtis tour of of SOME LIKE IT HOT. Still a C musical.I enjoyed it but it was unnecessary even when it was SUGAR but at least Curtis had the connection and name to pull in an audience.

Gearing up to this production ironing, Lord knows the word of mouth and had samplings of a score but nothing about it interested me.I’ve seen Borle in several shows and “meh”. He’s solid but not the most interesting performer. The other two are complete unknowns, and it doesn’t seem like I don’t really give a truly break out, star making performance

The friends I have that have seen it and liked it, all tend to be show queens with a healthy dose of political correctness. They’re applauding the tap dancing and the gender statements but I don’t know that their taste is something I share . I’m a bit more analytical and a tougher audience frankly Past the point of paying top dollar for mediocrity. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Assuming the examples of the changes to the characters and plot posted above are accurate. That’s a hard pass for me. It feels like the messages being shoved down the audience throat. I frankly respond more to a few moments that make me think or reflect, rather than force fed a message. If Sugar is singing about watching movies from the balcony that seems more a 60s message than me contemporary to the original setting. If that’s the message the production team want to serve, write a new show. Don’t pigeonhole it into something it never was.

At this point I don’t know how much the title holds much allure for the Broadway audience. The older generation familiar with the movie are going to be disappointed or outraged/ offended. . The younger crowd don’t care. They may know Monroe as an image but they’re not part of the Monroe cult. The musical taste is not grounded in GAS, So unlike the audience for Hamilton, the kids I’m going to be running out buying the cast recording and performing it on social media. Except for the few shows mentioned above, Broadway has been nothing but revisal, jukebox musicals and meteor from film to stage adaptions. I know Billy Elliot had its detractors, And uneven score. But it did tell the story in a very different way from the film. And I’ve got to say “solidarity “I still find a thrilling eight minutes. It tells a story, you see the evolution and relationship evolve and it was rather thrillingly staged. I for one liked COMET, It’s one of the few shows of the last 10 years I really wanted to see and I enjoyed every minute of it with some major qualifiers. Groban cannot act. He likes gravitas so it would be interesting to see what Sweeney Todd is like. Ashford is good, she’s put in her dues but I don’t really find her very interesting either. And no one knows her outside theater circles flop sitcom and small tv roles aside. Lansbury and LuPone she ain’t. I actually like SIX but it was a glorified concert and a lot of the appeal was a new take in the 6 wives.

It’s also just not a good time for Broadway. As far as I’m concerned Bruce still dealing with the pandemic. I don’t want to be in an audience full of unmasked people.

[quote]I really have no horse in this race and little interest in the shower but

No interest in "Take Me Out," then?

The problem is not that Borle isn't sexy enough or Rhee is too tall or the actress playing Sugar is too blah...

The show needs stars! Tony Curtis and Marilyn Monroe were at or near their peak of sexiness and stardom, and Jack Lemmon was well on his way, with his greatest triumphs yet to come. And they were supported by a stellar cast of character actors, including Joe E. Brown, George Raft, Nehemiah Persoff, Pat O'Brien and the inimitable (and underrated) Joan Shawlee.

Recognizable names from movies or TV could do a lot to boost the box office. Sorry for any hurt feelings of the current cast, but they ain't selling tickets.

For someone with no horse in the race r279, you sure type a lot.

R282, Perhaps he does have a dog in the fight.

My congratulations to the surviving company members of the original Broadway cast of Sugar, for living long enough to see another company do an even worse version of Some Like It Hot.

The life and...

Bobby and Elaine - 1978 . . .

Merrily We Roll Along is a great musical that never has and never will find an audience. Broadway's last great musical.

[quote]I really have no horse in this race and little interest in the shower

Would you have more interest in the shower if Casey Garvin were in it? :-)

Seriously, R279, you made some good points in your post, but it was a total disaster in terms of grammar etc. Did you type while drunk, or did you use voice recognition software?

[quote]Bobby and Elaine - 1978 . . .

Dear lord, Elaine has even less talent than I remembered, and I remembered her as not having any. And she was chosen as the female lead in "Sugar"?

Bobby was kind of goofy cute with those jug ears.

DL fav Lenora Nemetz played Sweet Sue in the Tony Curtis tour of SLIH.

R290, That's his original nose.

He was Jewish, not Jew-ish.

[quote]And she was chosen as the female lead in "Sugar"?

I always wondered about that, r289. Pre-'72 she doesn't seem to have the resume that would get her the lead in a big Broadway musical, particularly a Marilyn role. Here she is pre-nose job in a Route 66 from 1962. She was an uncredited dancer in West Side Story, Music Man, Bye, Bye Birdie, and Funny Girl. She was also "Loretta" in The Christine Jorgensen Story (1970).

IMDB

IBDB...

SUGAR

Looks like she was replaced with Pam Blair.

Did Elaine ever star in “They’re Playing Our Song”?

Sugar was far from perfect, but the OBCR often plays like gangbusters. That glorious Jule Styne overture followed by one ear worm after another. Styne really knew how to write a melody and some of the lyrics are clever enough, if not necessarily inspired.

Shaiman and Wittman have really struggled to come up with a solid score lately. SLIH is an improvement over Charlie- well anything is an improvement over that debacle- but it’s generic and soulless. CMIYC had some serious issues, but the score isn’t half bad; Norbert got the best material and you can see how he beat the Mormon boys out for the Tony. The TV variety show framing device really was a hinderance to the book and score and never really allowed the story to take off.

What I found most frustrating about SLIH was that I really wanted to like it. I was rooting for it and became more upset that it didn’t meet my expectations rather than if I had gone in expecting nothing.

[R287] "Merrily We Roll Along" is being revived on Broadway in the Fall of 2023. Daniel Radcliffe (who is currently starring in the off-Broadway revival ) will headline the show along with his returning co-stars Jonathan Groff and Lindsay Mendez. The current off-Broadway revival has won great reviews from critics and audiences alike. We shall see if it keeps it's magic once it moves to a bigger house.

[quote]Sugar was far from perfect, but the OBCR often plays like gangbusters

I never got into it, r299. I think it was that the plot structure is so male-oriented and I liked the Big Lady musicals. I probably would have paid more attention to it if they had cast someone with star quality as Sugar.

I guess it's not hard to figure out why Bobby Van might want to be with Elaine Joyce way back when, but....Neil Simon, much later? Was it some later-midlife crisis thing for him? If that, you would think he might have gone with someone younger and prettier, and maybe with a modicum of talent. Was Elaine the greatest sex ever? Or did she bring something else to the table that I can't begin to imagine?

If nothing else, Elaine Joyce was a pert and willing blonde with an incredible figure, shown to its maximum best in her Alvin Colt beaded dresses in SUGAR. Anyone who saw her in the show can't deny that.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that she could have seduced heterosexuals Bobby Van, Neil Simon and JD Salinger, even in her later years (after all, the latter two were also in their later years).

Goldie Hawn should have played Sugar in 1970.

I always wondered if Sugar's lack of really big solo numbers in the original SUGAR was because of Elaine Joyce's inability to really sell them or did the creators never want to make the role a true star part.....which does seem odd. Even if they couldn't cast a big name in the role, I never got why the character didn't have better material to work with.

Anybody know the story behind that

I should be playing Sugar in 2022.

I wonder if they can talk Rosie O'Donnell into joining the show and playing Sugar ?

Jule Styne was notorious for bedding theater gals (see Sandra Church); maybe Elaine slept her way into the lead.

[quote]Jule Styne was notorious for bedding theater gals (see Sandra Church); maybe Elaine slept her way into the lead.

Hmm. That never occurred to me, but I suppose that explanation of her casting is as plausible as any.

Elaine seemed to be pretty happily married to Bobby Van when she was cast in SUGAR.

I can't believe that the Sugar character sings an ode to all the little black girls who don't want to sit in the balcony when they go to the movies. I bet it is screlted in an overly dramatic manner and we are all supposed to feel enlightened!

I will not be attending Few Like it Woke, I'm afraid.

Let’s not soft-pedal the truth: Shaiman & Wittman are mediocrities who can’t write for characters or with dramatic cohesion

Elaine had another husband between Bobby and Neil.

Television producer John Levoff from 1985 - 1992.

They had a son together.

I'LL PLAY SUGAR!!!! The audience will storm to doors to buy a ticket because it's ME.

Joyce's marriage was not necessarily an impediment to giving Uncle Jule a little backstage "sugar" now and again.

Who knows what the truth is about Elaine Joyce's marriages, but regardless, I'll never forgive her for her part in the Neil Simon/Mary Tyler Moore debacle.

You're forgetting that MTM was also a horrible person.

So I've heard, R316, but there was still no excuse for the way that was handled.

I remember reading that Sugar was intended for Ann-Margaret who declined. Perhaps after that the creators shifted the focus to the male leads who were both fairly big names at the time.

Well, if A-M had indeed done SUGAR, I'll bet she would have been given more and betters songs that what Elaine Joyce ended up with.

She might have been given better songs, but none could ever compare to this powerhouse which skyrocketed her to immortality.

Well of course not, R321. That goes without saying :-)

R319, In 1972, Ann-Margret was enjoying a career insurgence after her Oscar nominated performance in "Carnal Knowledge".

She would have been a fool to tie herself up with a possible long run in a Broadway musical.

Without the Casey Garvin nudes, this thread is exhausting.

Why didn't " Bye Bye, Bird-he" win the Oscar for best original song?

Elaine also attended the dance warmups before rehearsals for the second Sweet Charity revival (the Applegate).

I want to read a letter to all the pointless bitches on this thread -- it's from my lawyer.

Van and Joyce were finally married in Las Vegas on May 1, 1968. One week later, Van filed for an annulment citing "fraud" and non-consummation, and that the actress "told him she wanted to have children but this was only to induce him into marriage".

Did anyone see Joe Namath when he toured in Sugar?

He certainly had the legs for it.

Wow, R328. I had no idea.

Yep, r331.

R324, it would appear that this thread has mostly morphed into the Elaine Joyce thread.

I guess because she's more interesting than the currently floundering 'Some Like It Hot'.

It's certainly an on-topic tangent, r333.

[quote]I guess because she's more interesting than the currently floundering 'Some Like It Hot'.

Sad, because she wasn't interesting enough to keep SUGAR running.

[quote]R324, it would appear that this thread has mostly morphed into the Elaine Joyce thread.

She had no talent. Not what I call talent!

The only time I see Elaine now is when I watch Funny Girl. It's probably the only time anybody ever sees her.

Ann Margret would have pushed Sugar into SRO status. And might have inspired better work from all concerned. I wonder if she regrets not doing it. Yeah she made a helluva lot more money in Vegas but for a musical performer like her a year in a big Broadway musical with that kind of pedigree would have been nice. This thread has got some of the Sugar songs running through my head and some of them are not half bad.

[quote]I wonder if she regrets not doing it.

Not doing what now?

The helluva lot more money sounds about right.

[quote]The only time I see Elaine now is when I watch Funny Girl. It's probably the only time anybody ever sees her.

She's also in WEST SIDE STORY, THE MUSIC MAN, and BYE, BYE BIRDIE!

That may be so but I've never seen her in those. I only recently saw Pete Menefee in My Fair Lady. Had no idea he was even in it until he talked about it in an interview. Then when watching the movie again I saw him but only because I was looking out for him. Joyce in Funny Girl I saw immediately without even knowing she was in it.

[quote]The only time I see Elaine now is when I watch Funny Girl. It's probably the only time anybody ever sees her.

[quote]She's also in WEST SIDE STORY, THE MUSIC MAN, and BYE, BYE BIRDIE!

Sure, in the background. It's just Lesley Ann Warren and me doing "Bye Yum Pum Pum" in "The Happiest Millionaire."

Don't forget Goldie was in the background in that Disney movie about a family band featuring Kurt Russell.

[quote]I only recently saw Pete Menefee in My Fair Lady.

In what scene(s)?

Apparently, nobody around here watches Buzzr...!

Pete M looking very young is one of the costermongers in the Convent Garden scenes. He's also one of the chimney sweeps in MP but only he can make himself out because he knows where he was in the dance line-up. And of course he's Harvey Johnson in BBB.

R344 The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band.

Pleasant movie. Lots of John Davidson / Leslie Ann Warren charm.

R288 Actually I was dictating into the phone. Not drunk, sorry about the grammar etc. Between auto correct and ongoing eye/vision issues, admittedly I’m a hot mess these days.

Sorry to hear, R349. I guess that voice recognition software, or whatever you call it, does not work very well.

The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band is the most exciting movie musical about a presidential election.

Miss Leslie Ann...

Oh Benjamin Harrison he's far beyond comparison.

He kept drummin drummin drummin while the enemy kept a commin. Unafraid he held his ground!

Elaine had a small but memorable part as a nasty model in the camp/cult classic The Christine Jorgensen Story (1970) directed by Hollywood veteran Irving Rapper (Now, Voyager). She appears @ 15:00

If you are an "edgy" straight couple from, say Omaha, you'll laugh your ass off at Some Like It Hot.

on edge is more like it

earlier in the evening

Andy Cohen and guest Patti LuPone raved about SLIH on CNN's NYE coverage, both having attended its opening night.

earlier that day. Crime is keeping tourists away.

R353....are you talking' bout this Benjamin Harrison?

Yes.

Fuck you R35. What the fuck is the problem with you fucking CUNTS who want to tell everybody else what they can post and what they can't. Are you ELON MUSK? Fuck off.

[quote]Sad, because she wasn't interesting enough to keep SUGAR running.

SUGAR ran for fourteen previews and five-hundred and five regular performances, approximately fourteen months.

Get back to us when the current SOME LIKE IT HOT passes that milestone...without Elaine Joyce!

She didn't do the full run, r363.

Yes, I'm aware, Pam, but who runs out to buy seats to every Pam Blair musical?

Please don't tell me Michael Bennett needed you to put "A Chorus Line" over the top!

Tickets are on TDF so it won’t be around too long.

Fine, I give up, Elaine.

What *is* it about the name Elaine?

I was looking for Sugar on Spotify but instead found Some Like it Hot with Tommy Steele using a revamped Sugar score. He's no Bobby Morse.

[quote]the male leads who were both fairly big names at the time

I was?

R370. Yes, Tony. Try and remember.

Tony wasn't a big name but David Merrick liked him. And Woody Allen. Probably cheap and agreeable enough. Sugar was the worst thing he did. Everyone wiped him off the stage except for Elaine. Two black holes in one musical.

Tony Roberts was dreadful playing the Robert Preston role in the stage version of "Victor/Victoria." His performance consisted of recycling all the obvious gay mannerisms that every other hack actor would have used.

Would Lesley Ann Warren have been enough of a name for Sugar when it first premiered? Or was she still attached to the musical version of Gone With the Wind?

It looks like SLIH is so bad that all of the posts are now about shows featuring mediocre actors.

We're nearing 400 posts, r375...what do you expect?

And we're also talking about "They're Playing Our Song" which is a sure sign of the apocalypse

Who's talking about TPOS, r377?

TPOS? Was I in that one, too?

What was the backstage drama between Liza and Tony Roberts when she filled in for Julie Andrews in 'Victor / Victoria' back in 1995-96 ?

In a nutshell, Tony complained that Liza flubbed her lines and was no Elaine Joyce...

R374 Sugar predated GWTW and closed 2 months before GWTW premiered in LA. Jon Peters was still pulling the LAW strings at the time but who knows? She was just coming off MISSION IMPOSSIBLE and seems to have been focused on TV.

I don't think LAW was in the blonde bimbo mold they were looking for as Sugar Kane back in 1972. It wasn't until Victor/Victoria, almost 10 years later, that LAW was perceived in that mold. She was still just thought of as a lispy brunette aging ingenue.

R380, Didn't Tony ultimately refuse to acknowledge Liza during curtain calls?

I've seen bootleg footage of Liza where she was stoned out of her mind in VV. I don't blame Tony one bit.

Yeah, Liza was apparently in VERY bad shape during at least part of her brief run in V/V, so people who are judging Tony Roberts for being cold to her should maybe try to put themselves in his shoes. How would you like to be onstage in a Broadway show with someone who keeps screwing up because she's under the influence?

Sugar could have used Neil Simon. It could have used some fresh jokes rather than just Stone cribbing from the movie. Morse and Ritchard had to do all the heavy lifting. They had to create a musical comedy big enough to fill the Majestic out of nothing.

Have the BO grosses come out for last week yet? How did SLIH do? If it didn't sell out the week between Christmas and New Years, usually the most profitable week for any Broadway musical, it's never going to pick up.

BO for this past week will come out later this afternoon.

There were a lot of box office records broken last week.

Do we know if TPOS ever broke a box office record at The Imperial?

More importantly, r391, was it Boffo at the BO?

Bookmark this r388

Bookmark this r388

SLIH did $1.1M for the holiday week (12/26/22-1/1/23) with 9 performances. Some of the children on BroadwayWorld were cheering this fact, but it's not encouraging. It was the second lowest grossing musical of the week (ahead of the soon-to-close A Strange Loop). It had the second lowest average ticket price ($106.55), just ahead of A Strange Loop ($105.29). It had the second lowest capacity figures (84%, just ahead of A Beautiful Noise). I would expect it will fall back this week to the $600K range, where it will surely be losing money. Even with a priority loan, I think it's soon due for the scrap heap.

SLIH is the Catch Me If You Can of today.

Instead of floating it the Shuberts should let it sink. But they have more money than God. They can put it on ice and let it tour arenas.

Those holiday #'s for HOT don't seem promising as they find themselves slammed into Jan & Feb. I hope they have some marketing magic up their tranny sleeves. KimAkim had a higher average ticket price. for god's sake. Both fucked, I'm afraid.

By the way some random DL threads seem to require more reloading than Dawson, and this is one of them. Always crashes on my iPhone when other threads work fine. Somewhere, Marilyn Monroe is obviously [italic] pissed. [/italic]

'Funny Girl' was down 6% in attendance, even though they did 9 performances for the week - and that's because Lea Michele missed three of those nine performances. Still, it's doing damn well at the box office. ($2.4M last week with ticket prices from $235-$599).

To miss a third of the performances during a week is a lot. Was she sick? Still 9 performances during a week is too much for an entire cast. I hope for that 9th performance they got double pay.

The Shubert are "non-profit" don't you know that? They don't "make" money...

They mint it...

To miss 2 performances during a week is a lot. To miss 3 performances looks like carelessness.

[quote] Two words, and you got them both wrong.

Let's just call Christian Borle "Chinless" and make it easier for everyone.

It's not like Dorothy Kilgallen is still alive and people think we are referring to her...

Julie Benko did four of the nine performances. Monday matinee and her usual Thursday Eve were scheduled. Lea was ill and out for both shows on Friday. No show Saturday but Lea was back for Jan 1 matinee.

please don't post the same thing in two threads r406. We heard you the first time.

Hey, r405!

4 times ? Wow - I had read 3 times.

R407. Sorry ma'am. I was bouncing back and forth between the two threads and posted on the other thread by mistake. Won't happen again.

R409. I follow Benko on Instagram and she posts every time she goes on. Lea probably had two scheduled absences because it was a 9 show week. Then she got sick.

Why is there a thread dedicated to this show? It's AWFUL.

Awful shows deserve threads too, r412.

Maybe "so bad it's good" shows. But this mediocrity is so bad it's pointless.

TPOS has had epic threads through the years.

It was announced yesterday that Audra McDonald's "Ohio State Murders" will be closing January 15 - one month earlier than it planned for it's limited engagement. The show has had trouble in recent weeks in hitting '50% capacity'. The box office has bombed.

[quote]The box office has bombed.

The show has bombed.

OHIO STATE MURDERS should never probably have come to Broadway, not even with a mega-star in the lead. If it HAD to come to Broadway, the only way it would have worked would have been as a very limited run as part of the season of one of the not-for-profits, like MTC or Lincoln Center or (shudder!) the Roundabout. I am aware that LCT is part of the producing team of this production, but that's not what I mean, and obviously, it didn't help much that the show was presumably offered to LCT's subscribers. Or maybe it did help considerably, and OSM would have closed even sooner otherwise. Sad that the first show in the beautiful new James Earl Jones theater had to be a huge bomb just to give Adrienne Kennedy a debut on Broadway, where the kind of plays she writes cannot be expected to run successfully.

What kept me away from Ohio State Murders was the slimness of the offering. Who wants to pay all that money and devote an evening to a 70 minute play? And the play is barely more than a monologue, at that. I wonder if combining it with another great one act to make a fuller and more varied evening would have helped sales? Depending on the double bill I would have given it more of a chance.

In the old days, that's what producers would have done. I remember the original Black Comedy on Broadway with Michael Crawford and Lynn Redgrave, combined with White Lies, also by Peter Shaffer, as the curtain raiser. Yes, I'm ancient.

Don't forget Geraldine Page, r419!

TPOS deserves an eternal threat of condemnation and celebration. Until we get to Quogue...

One should also consider the fact that LCT members were offered the worst seats in the house when booking started, because they wanted to hold back all those "premium" seats. Schmucks.

R422, I didn't know that. If true, it's a stellar example of true stupidity and rampant greed.

The title choice certainly wasn't a an attraction to tourists or theater-goers. Call it anything else except "Ohio State Murders" - especially with so many mass shootings and murders going on across the country.

Good point, R424. And, ironically, the show isn't even about a shooting of students on campus, although that's the impression that the title gives.

Also R418 et al it should have been in the Hayes, Booth, or Golden. Just that, with the same numbers they had, would've made the situation less dire. The JEJ fka Cort seats just under 1100! Even with the two upper levels closed it must have seemed pretty empty in there.

R426, but the powers that be felt it was very important for Adrienne Kennedy to make her Broadway debut in the newly christened James Earl Jones Theater. So they got what they wanted, even if that was a very bad choice for other reasons.

Yes, this play would only have made sense as a Broadway show for a limited run at the Hayes or one of the other smallest theaters, or, as I said, as part of a subscription season at one of the non-profits. If the Beaumont were a smaller theater, that would have been the perfect choice, and Mike Birbiglia could have gone elsewhere. But the Beaumont is also way too large for OSM. And, of course, if the show had played the Newhouse, it wouldn't be "Broadway" and wouldn't be Tony eligible, which was a huge part of the point here.

Does today's Broadway audience have the patience to sit through two one acts? Ok the plays over let's get out of here. What? There's another one?!!

R419, people are more accepting of shorter plays now. For the last twenty years, most revivals of Black Comedy have not included White Lies.

Yeah, I REALLY don't think the brevity of OSM was a significant issue.

The Roundabout did a great revival of Black Comedy/White Lies in the early (or mid?) 90s, starring the sublime Nancy Marchand, Peter MacNicol, Kate Mulgrew, Brian Murray, Keene Curtis and some other great NY theater dependables. A double bill can certainly work if it's thought out properly.

I miss real theater. Now I go and I'm yelled at.

R430, the brevity wasn't the issue but the price of a tiket fo a 70 minute play was definitely an issue.

I think two one act plays back-to-back would've been a smart move. For those who didn't want to stay for the second play, they could've left - but they would have had the choice.

Hell, they could have at least had Audra come back out and sing a few Michael John LaChiusa hits.

Oh. Well, never mind.

R433, I guess I see what you mean, but I see the ticket prices as a separate issue. If it had been a really great, gripping, 70-minute play, I don't think most people would have minded. Also, granted that ticket prices for this were ridiculous, ticket-buyers who were willing to pay big bucks to see Audra in a play -- not a musical -- could have honestly told themselves that they were getting a lot more of her in OSM, which is basically a monologue with a few brief appearances by other actors, than they got in A RAISIN IN THE SUN, for example.

R431, but if audiences are fine with just Black Comedy, why bother adding in the other play? The point was that audiences are now fine if a production is just an hour and 15 minutes.

How can audiences know what they're fine with before they've seen the plays, r436? At least if both plays are new to them, which I would suspect would be a lot of people vis a vis Black Comedy and White Lies.

90 minutes feels like an evening. 70 minutes feels like a rip-off.

Nice trolling, R437. I totally bought it.

Are all new Broadway shows just going to badger us for being white and not trans?

They're all coming and going so quickly, yet I imagine there are many more in the wings!

Shut up, R440. Absolutely NO shows are doing that except in your Nazi-fantasy mind.

R441:

But a treatise on the tyranny of white privilege and ignorance would have felt more prescient before the summer of 2020, when anti-racist books topped best seller lists — and white people at least promised to read them — as the United States witnessed one of the most widespread protest movements in its history.

For audiences of any color without delusions about the fundamentals of racism and its pervasive, deadly constructs, Rankine’s lecture, however essential, may seem a redundant lesson. If theater has the potential to embody hard truths, “Help” spells them out in familiar black-and-white rather than lifting them off the page.

R441

When do we get a play about a trans woman joining an all women's baseball team with a few full frontal showers scenes with a number of surprises for everyone?

Hopefully never, R444.

R442 and R443 does not prove R440's inane point about "all Broadway shows."

Those are two off-Broadway plays from a few years back. And if the poster gets riled up about these two pieces, he should stick to Kirk Cameron films.

We will eventually get a play with trans nudity. I predict the actor will have chest scars and a vagina. I predict the audience will gasp in repulsion. I predict every person who gasps will be screamed at for transphobia.

We've already seen those chest scars in 1776, r447. Did you fall asleep?

No I did not fall asleep, presumptuous R448, because I didn't wish to waste my time on that grating production.

So, someone showed "his" chest scars in it? Fine. But I said chest scars and vagina.

R442, Rankin is fascinating. I saw her play The White Card and it was the story of how a wealthy black artist faces racism among people of her social class, then turns around and victimizes a white art collector. The white characters were unconscious racists, but the artist was a conscious monster.

[quote]Absolutely NO shows are doing that except in your Nazi-fantasy mind.

R 441, you have already been proven wrong, so go in the corner and play with your Patti dolls.

Uh, no George Santos at R451. Nothing has been proven except you doubling down on your delusion, like a true right-wing moron.

What a fool you are, R452. The proof has been presented to you. You must be non-binary and unable to focus.

What a delightful and informative thread!

Let's get back to the subject of this thread Elaine Joyce and 'Sugar.'

I wonder how the post-holiday business has been for SLIH. And f Christian Borle's understudy Casey Garvin has gone on for him yet.

The box office for the post-holiday business of SLIH and the rest of Broadway will be released on Tuesday.

I saw SLIH last night. It's slick and professional, but so loud, pushy and aggressive that I left with a headache. Everything is set to 11, as if to compensate for a general lack of purpose. The gags are desperate. The only joke that I thought worked is held over from the screenplay ("Who's the lucky girl?" "I am!"). Shaiman is in pastiche mode with the music, which he does well, but I thought the lyrics, attributed to both Shaiman and Wittman, are generally the problem. They just kill time and fill space, without having much character or personality to make them distinguished or memorable, and they start to all sound the same. There's rarely a moment in the storytelling that is improved or enhanced by a song, with the possible exception of Jerry/Daphne's "You Could Have Knocked Me Over With a Feather," which though credibility-straining for the time and place at least has a pulse. It all felt to me like Catch Me If You Can in 30s clothing.

Two off-Broadway examples from a couple years ago is not proof that "all of Broadway" is doing anything. And you know that, you willfully obtuse joke of a human.

R453 picks his belly button, eats the lint, and insists its food.

R458 Was the theater filled last night, or mostly empty, pre-Christmas / New Year's week ?

[quote]Absolutely NO shows are doing that

Then:

[quote]Two off-Broadway examples from a couple years ago is not proof that "all of Broadway" is doing anything

Who said anything about " all of Broadway"? Just you.

[quote] [R458] Was the theater filled last night, or mostly empty, pre-Christmas / New Year's week ?

Orchestra was mostly filled, with empty seats on the far sides and the back rows. I don't know about upstairs. The Shubert can be incredibly uncomfortable when it is at capacity, and it was not impossible to get around in there last night, so I suspect the two balconies were lightly filled. Also, at quarter of eight, there was no line outside and I got in within seconds. In fact, the only show on 44th Street that had a line for entry at that time was Phantom.

Original post at R440 that sparked the entire thing:

[quote] Are all new Broadway shows just going to badger us for being white and not trans?

R461, you can clearly read the false claim of "all new Broadway shows," right? You can see the actual words there? And then see how two off-Broadway shows from a few years back does not prove the blatantly false point? You can follow that, right? Please wear your reading comprehension glasses next time.

SOME DON’T LIKE MY TWAT

Josephine...

I would have given anything to be in on those conversations Joe Namath had with his "decorator" about the decor of his swingin' bachelor pad.

[quote]Shut up, [R440]. Absolutely NO shows are doing that except in your Nazi-fantasy mind.

Ahh. Yet another triggered soul who thinks everyone who doesn't swallow every drop of bilge water the Gender Identity Movement dishes up is a "Nazi"!

How exhausting.

Maybe you should go lie down for a bit r467.

[quote] so loud, pushy and aggressive that I left with a headache. Everything is set to 11, as if to compensate for a general lack of purpose.

Welcome to a Casey Nicholaw show.

[quote] Shaiman is in pastiche mode with the music, which he does well,

Welcome to a Marc Shaiman show.

[quote] you can clearly read the false claim of "all new Broadway shows," right? You can see the actual words there? And then see how two off-Broadway shows from a few years back does not prove the blatantly false point? You can follow that, right? Please wear your reading comprehension glasses next time.

Welcome to the loony bin.

If Shaiman did pastiche well he would be on a level with Sondheim and Styne which I don't think he is. From what I've heard he's trying so hard his music becomes tiring to listen to.

Nearly 25 years ago there was a touring company of "Some Like It Hot" headlined by Tony Curtis. Is this a different production, or did it seriously take a quarter century for it to get to Broadway?

R471,It's a different production or, as the Broadway producers would say," Re-imagined for a modern day audience." That's a signal that there is "alternative casting," and everyone should already know what that means.

R471, it's amazing to me that you have somehow missed the information that this is a completely new musical adaptation of the property, with an entirely new score and book. Although part of the problem is that the score is NOT entirely new in the sense that it's so derivative :-(

The lulla-bye of Broadway

Yes, the start of the "winter purge" has begun today on Broadway - clearing out houses to make way for the arrival of Spring Musicals.

None of which will succeed.

"Alternative casting"

Meaning, casting actors you'd never in a million years believe in the role, but we'll call you a Nazi if you so much as raise an eyebrow!

[quote] [R471],It's a different production or, as the Broadway producers would say," Re-imagined for a modern day audience." That's a signal that there is "alternative casting," and everyone should already know what that means.

r472 stop helping.

How...titillating.

^ Sorry, that was meant for *this* thread...

R477 For example, Gwen Verdon, too old to play in Chicago. Or Sutton Foster, too old to play Marion. This is what you mean?

R473 - You sound easily amazed.

Really, 482? You think it's surprising that I'm amazed that someone who contributes to a thread on this subject somehow managed to miss the news that this is a completely new adaptation of the film SOME LIKE IT HOT, not the previous musical adaptation SUGAR (which at some point was retitled SOME LIKE IT HOT)?

Then only thing that I find surprising and, indeed, amazing is that anyone on earth gives a shit.

Weirdness, R484. I assume a lot of people are interested in the facts about SOME LIKE IT HOT, a new Broadway musical that many predicted to be a huge hit but that has been struggling at the box office -- including the very basic, important fact that this show is not SUGAR. I sort of hate to ask, but what do YOU give a shit about?

R483 I'm not R482, but I would say you're easily amazed, as well. What you have referenced (a regular contributor missing an explanation in a post) my be a bit surprising, but to call it 'shocking' or 'amazing' is a little too much.

No, R486, what the person in question also missed was months worth of publicity explaining that this show is not SUGAR with a new title but, rather a new musical adaptation of SOME LIKE IT HOT with a new score and a new book. I certainly wouldn't expect every man in the street to know this, but for someone who frequents theater threads on chat boards to somehow have missed the info is pretty amazing, in my opinion.

I wonder if the person in question also thinks the upcoming Broadway production of PARADE is a revival of the old Jerry Herman review?

[quote] the old Jerry Herman review

oh dear.

I certainly wouldn't expect every man in the street to know this, but for someone who frequents theater threads on chat boards to somehow have missed the difference between review and revue is pretty amazing, in my opinion.

Well, it's Tuesday. What were the BO grosses for last week?

R488, I really do know the difference between "review" and "revue." I'm sorry that my typo ruined by joke, but making a typo isn't equivalent to not understanding that SOME LIKE IT HOT on Broadway is not SUGAR.

oh, honey.

You review a revue, but you can't revue a review. Now lets review.

How many dead horses are we kicking on this thread at this point?

SLIH down to $800,000 last week,

Box office for last week fell below $900,000. 77% capacity from 85% previous (Dec 26 -Jan1) week.

^^^^ This is the box office for 'Some Like It Hot'.

Doesn't bode well, at least until the Tonys when it will lose most or all of them and surely close. If it even lasts that long,

And what's the box office for Sugar? How many performances did Elaine Joyce miss last week. Probably not enough.

$800,000 is probably break-even.

Do we know if they're make a cast recording of any sort?

Why ddin't they just make the entire cast black? If they're going to be woke they might as well have gone all the way.

It's weird that Christian Borle who is the closest thing to a 'name' in the cast is barely in the TV spot or any promotional photos. It's like they're trying to hide him.

I've said it here before but one (of many!) of the biggest goofs this show made was to conceive the role of Joe/Josephine, as personified by casting fugly Christian Borle, as a sexless disinterested clown.

Say what you will about the original film, and I think it's genius, but one of its best and HOTTEST elements were the seduction scenes between MM and handsome sexy (and funny) Tony Curtis. This production never had the balls to allow sex to intrude in this sex comedy. It's really baffling.

Knock off the "woke' crap, and go back to Newsmax. You're tiresome and petty.

[quote] Why didn't they just make the entire cast black? If they're going to be woke they might as well have gone all the way.

Black men in dresses always sells tickets!!

For anyone craving SUGAR

J2 Spotlight Musical Theater -- whoever they are -- are smartly grabbing the mission that ENCORES! abandoned. Be interesting to see if they can get good talent for this.

[quote]Why ddin't they just make the entire cast black? If they're going to be woke they might as well have gone all the way.

Pearl Bailey and cast in Hello Dolly was "woke', r501?

8,925 people saw Some Like it Hot last week, almost as many as saw Funny Girl (9,565), in almost the same sized theater (SLIH's Shubert has about 200 more seats than the August Wilson)

Of course, the average ticket price for FG was $215. compared to Hot's $96., allowing Girl to gross over $2 million vs. Hot's $860,000.

The grosses do not include the various deductions, which knock off an additional $80-$100K. The net gross for Some Like It Hot was probably somewhere around $750,000 last week, which is probably a money-losing week for them.

If they want to survive, Borle needs to go, and the character needs to be played by an actor with sex appeal. Borle is about as appealing as a mop.

Why the hell should a musical have been made of SLIH anyway? It seems like a stupid idea right from the beginning. Any musical could never come close to that classic movie.

It coulda worked as Sugar back in the day had it been a bit starrier in casting.

And had a better score and a better staging.

Elaine Joyce and Tony Roberts were bad casting. But Merrick probably his blew his budget on everything else and wanted them cheap. And on Broadway at that time I don't know who else he could have gotten for those roles.

[quote] If they want to survive, Borle needs to go, and the character needs to be played by an actor with sex appeal. Borle is about as appealing as a mop.

Changing the actor would serve as a bandaid to this hemorrhaging production

Laurence Guittard, would have been a sexy and funny Joe.

Actually, Robert Goulet at that time would have been great casting for Joe!

Larry Kert played Joe on tour.

Larry sang "The People In My Life" from Sugar at the one-night only June Styne tribute one Sunday night at the Palace decades ago. I believe the song was written for him and added to the score on the road. He was brilliant. The same night Liza sang "Some People" long before adding it to her concerts. She blew the house down.

Lisa!

Think this is the first time I've ever heard of Larry Kert as "brilliant."

Actually, Robert Goulet at that time would have been great casting for Joe!

Yes, and at that point in time he would have wanted a big salary and top billing over Morse which I don't think Morse would have tolerated. Great idea though. Would have given star power and sexiness to the role which it had none of and desperately needed.

Goulet, Morse...and who?

R524. Meeeee!!!!

Works for me, r525.

Here's Goulet in '72...

I wonder if Borle isn't staying long and if that's why he's not very present in the marketing other than that one TV performance

I haven't seen the show but would Tony Yazbeck be a good replacement and bring some sex appeal that sounds like it's missing?

[quote]I wonder if Borle isn't staying long and if that's why he's not very present in the marketing other than that one TV performance

I don't think that's the reason. And I don't think anyone will be staying in this production very long, if you know what I mean.

Saw SLIH yesterday - great dancing, and the score was good, but it got a little repetitive too quickly. It was a solid Broadway show and entertaining.

Christian Borle has a face for radio.

Jack Cassidy would have been great in the role of Joe back then . Due to his son David's explosion to fame at the time, the Cassidy name was quite popular in magazines and media - Jack could've drawn an audience.

I think John Davidson, a hot new star with a handsome face, could have pulled off 'Joe', too.

As for 'Sugar'...I'm thinking Vicki Lawrence (who proved she could play many parts and sing and dance on The Carol Burnett Show). She'd be a great 'Sugar'.

Vicki Lawrence though not pretty and sexy in the way you expect Sugar to be on the surface might have been able to pull it off on talent alone. Though she could never have gotten off the Burnett show.

Vicki...Lawrence?

You clearly did not see Elaine Joyce!

[quote]You clearly did not see Elaine Joyce!

And for that, I am truly grateful to our Heavenly Father.

I've never seen Borle on stage. I just looked at him. He's in the Tony Curtis role?!!! Dear God. Is he like some great talent? I sure hope so.

Borle has a GREAT body, r537. He always has.

Was he naked in some play?

You clearly have not seen SLIH, r538. Borle is now quite barrel-chested, his waistline has expanded and his jaw line has receded even further. He looks like the elder Mary Wickes (c. 1982) in drag.

Love Tony Curtis in the original film, very believably an attractive woman when needed, and sexy AF the rest of the time.

But did you all know that his voice as Josephine was completely dubbed post-production? Sorry, can't remember where I read it and I believe it was a relatively recent revelation, but t was a reliable source.

[quote]Love Tony Curtis in the original film, very believably an attractive woman when needed, and sexy AF the rest of the time. But did you all know that his voice as Josephine was completely dubbed post-production?

I knew that, but I have to say, it was so well done -- especially for that time -- that I would never have guessed if the secret hadn't been revealed.

Borle is an excellent Bway actor--he just doesn't have star quality

Borle has star quality as a brilliant comic actor in roles that are well written and well suited to him, for example, PETER AND THE STARCATCHER, SPAMALOT, LITTLE ME, and LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS.

I presume Curtis looped "Josephine" himself in post. It sure sounded like the timbre of his voice on the soundtrack, albeit in falsetto. I'm guessing he didn't have the required vocal control to maintain that character voice on set.

That sounds like the type of performer we complain about not having these days, r544. Not a conservatory trained, cookie cutter performer.

I never knew Curtis was dubbed. By himself? Where was this revealed and by whom?

R547, Paul Frees

R548 . . .

This trans person was offended by SLIH and isn't afraid to call it out.

God, I am so tired of Christian Lewis. He's offended by EVERYTHING.

"After watching the show and reading the positive reviews, I kept thinking: How did no one else see what I saw? "

Because you're a myopic, close-minded person. There is nothing transphobic in the show, and a man putting on a dress not an automatic transphobic idea. Ask Shakespeare.

[quote]Christian Lewis (they/them/theirs) is a queer trans nonbinary freelance theater critic with bylines in Variety, Did They Like It?, Playbill, Theatermania, Theatrely, American Theatre, and others. They are also a professor and have a Ph.D. from the CUNY Graduate Center. They are @clewisreviews on Twitter.

Well, I think that tells us everything we need to know about this.....person. Shame on those outlets for giving him a forum, although I guess we should have expected as much from American Theatre.

Is there an upcoming "conflict" coming up for Christian Borle that could allow him to end his contract with the show?

Christian is wonderful in the show. Wonderful.

And totally miscast.

And quite homely.

Christian has great biceps.

I saw the show. Christian is a great dancer and was NOT miscast. There appears to be someone here who has an axe to grind. Get over it, dear.

Over $900,000 last week. They are making it!

SLIH poured lots of money into advertising over the last few weeks.

Let's see if word of mouth now takes it further.

Sounds impressive box-office wise, however it's still only filling 74% of the house - which is down from the week before (77%) .

8,600 seats were filled over 8 performances when they had the chance to fill 11, 500 seats for 8 performances. That's a lot of empty seats each night.

Just about all the other musicals were at 90% - 100+% capacity last week.

Someone posted an audio recording of a complete performance.

"Some Like It Hot feels like two competing musicals: one that attempts to update the source material to speak to contemporary understandings of transness and another that delivers a barely updated man-in-a-dress comedy rooted in transphobic tropes."

LAWSY!

I am guessing the author is also an upper-middle class guy with no student loans to worry about, right? I cannot believe anyone actually took the time to dream up that gibberish!

updated man-in-a-dress comedy rooted in transphobic tropes.

These trans activists want to kill everything. Why not just blow up the world? A good man in a dress comedy has been funny since the beginning of time. And that's because as somebody once said something heavy trying to be light is funny. Like Fatty Arbuckle of Jackie Gleason dancing. As opposed to something light trying to be heavy. Not very funny.

If you don't do that well over the Xmas season, you're not going to make it

I wanted to like SLIH but found it tuneless, joyless, mirthless and relentless to the point that I don't understand what its supporters see in it. It's the type of show I usually love and I like that there is an old fashioned musical comedy on the boards. But it left me cold in just about every possible way.

That said, carry on.

Borle is miscast if you think that character has to be conventionally handsome and have lots of sex appeal, but just because that's what Tony Curtis brought to the role doesn't mean it has to be that way. It's not even really the same character anymore.

[quote]Borle is miscast if you think that character has to be conventionally handsome and have lots of sex appeal, but just because that's what Tony Curtis brought to the role doesn't mean it has to be that way.

Apparently the producers of "Sugar" would have agreed with you, having cast Tony Roberts in the role.

He's miscast if you want to believe that Sugar has one iota of sexual interest in him. Which helps if she still decides to run off with him after she discovers he's a fraud.

Well, R570, maybe she comes to like him for reasons other than his sex appeal. That is possible, you know.

Based on the Seth Mayers appearance, Christian is pretty formidable in the role, but only if you put a bag over his head.

In addition, what's the deal with a cast album not coming out until March 24th? Are they trying to self-sabotage?

'maybe she comes to like him for reasons other than his sex appeal. That is possible, you know.'

Not in a musical comedy it isn't.

R573, the days when cast albums always came out right after a show opened are over. That only happens sometimes now. That said, I'm rather surprised they didn't record this score earlier, but maybe they were making changes right up until opening.

[quote] the days of cast albums are over.

Fixed it for you

Well, R576, the cast albums of some recent shows have been very successful.

R577, like?

Hamilton, for one.

R579, thanks. R578, shut up and do your own research.

The new London cast recording of Cabaret drops on Spotify tomorrow.

I saw it last week and found it very enjoyable.

R579, R577 said "the cast albums of some recent shows."

You had to go to 2015 and only gave us one show.

That's neither recent nor "some" shows.

R578 writes old. Cast Albums are still very popular on streaming platforms for younger demographics.

The article at R550 could have been written by ChatGPT with the prompt "Write about Some Like It Hot from the point of view of a trans activist." Hits all the tropes. Victimized from the moment they walk in the theater. Presents as fully male but deeply offended by "sir" (confirmed in Twitter link). Asshole in seat next to him is transphobic too, although we've all sat next to similar assholes. Classic man-in-dress comedy trope in silly comedy will lead to murder, violence, death, slaughter. Laughter must be punished at all costs.

The Reality: Christian Borle is indeed an ugly man in a dress. He is not a trans character. There is no transphobia when a character is not trans. Also, the comedic chase is not about killing and victimizing trans people. It's about killing the witnesses to a murder, regardless of gender expression.

Must be a terrible existence going through life permanently offended by everything.

R586-Said the pot to the kettle.

Huh?

B.O. was down almost $100,000 to around $825,000 last week with capacity at 75%.

But most shows were down.

Most shows still hit the $1M mark at the box office (incredible for the month of January) except the few which are struggling - like this one.

Strange that audiences are still flocking to see "MJ" and keeping it a hit on Broadway. They don't mind supporting the estate of a pedo, I guess.

When the guy writes music they love they couldn't care less if he were a guard in a concentration camp let alone a sex abuser of children. The wokesters wouldn't in a million years attempt to cancel him like they do when they go after a man who abuses women. Young children are ripe for sex when you write Thriller.

I just want to say I've waited over 20 years for a DL thread more ore less devoted to the B'way musical, Sugar, and this will do.

More details, please. What was the word of mouth on the show? Did audiences enjoy it?

Was there any talk about it being snubbed for Best Musical at the Tonys or was that a foregone conclusion given the larger number of musicals in performance back then?

I used the cast album on vinyl, got it from Footlight Records in the '80s and a year later had the opportunity to meet Robert Morse in summer stock. He signed the album cover for me and remarked that he needed to have a listen to that because he was going into a tour of the show (I think w/ Joe Namath). Ikept it with it's plastic cover on. I wish I still had it.

I used to be available from Apple Music and you could literally hear them drop the needle on the vinyl at the beginning of the transfer!! lol

R592, I don't know the answers to all your questions, but the SUGAR cast album got a limited reissue in a remastered version by Kritzerland some years ago, so you may have missed that opportunity.

I've written before I saw Sugar 3 times and played the LP to death but haven't heard it since. It had a great advance and then it opened. Judith Crist called it a tired business man's musical. It did great at matinees and ok in the evenings Glynis and Cyril were the dearest of friends and she was down the block from the Majestic in Night Music. She said when Sugar closed she wanted to slit her throat. Then Night Music went into the Majestic.

Shout out to Sheila Smith...

The second time I saw the original production of Follies De Carlo was out and the role was taken by Marion Marlowe who I knew as young as I was had originated the role of the Baroness in TSOM.

It's been so long since " Follies" freaks attempted to hijack a thread that has nothing to do with that flop.

For R597

Gentle r598, while I certainly agree that r597 is an obvious douche-nozzle, did he really deserve that extreme a punishment?

Let the punishment fit the douche-nozzle.