Has there ever been a better movie than A Place In The Sun?

The Godfather

Cool Hand Luke

Jaws

The Thin Man

The General

A Raisin in the Sun

That would take too long, OP.

Breakin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo

Good movie but not much replay value. It's dated too.

It's definitely in my top ten.

Was anyone shocked by the ending?

Yes. Yes there are.

OP = Sutton Stracke

R9..well if there are better movies, Kyle, name 'em. Name 'em! Name 'em!

FUNNY GIRL!

Even Stevie Wonder sang a Johnny come lately title song for it!

As a child, I wept when Montgomery Clift’s character was sent to the electric chair.

R13, were you shocked by the ending?

"The Room".

I think I was shocked by how handsome Clift was, R14.

[quote]I think I was shocked by how handsome Clift was, [R14].

When I first saw the film, at the very opening where Clift turns around to face to us, I gasped.

I Want to Live!

Monty got all the girls!

Barry Lyndon.

Did anyone know the ending before they saw it?

I didn’t know the ending. And Criterion has this as part of a summer romance collection??

The best part of it is the drowning of Shelley Winters, but one viewing is enough for that camp. The film is basically melodrama and although Monty and LIz are beautiful, you can see everything coming---even as a kid, I noticed that.

It's kind of depressing, but everyone is great in it.

I have watched the drowning more than once and never tire of it! In fact the scenes between Shelley and Monty are the best in the movie. Elizabeth was incredibly beautiful, but she was just the frothy unattainable diamond Monty was desperate to have. Shelley was his undoing. The movie was a parable. I have to say. In the scene where Elizabeth faints, I laugh outloud. How perverse!

When I see it now, the "themes" are poured on so thickly...the poor guy who gets to sit at the CEO's desk for a moment and sees a huge check, in close-up...him in his tiny boarding house room studying books like "How to get ahead" as the Eastman sign flashes outside his window.

I don't know if it's intentional or not (I *think* so, but I'm not sure)...when George visits his relatives in their home, or goes to a party there...the house is so over-decorated and tasteless.

I enjoy the movie, but it's no masterpiece. A better movie, from that era? What about Sunset Boulevard?

I'm glad An American in Paris won Best Picture over A Place in the Sun. It's a better movie.

It's not an especially great movie, but Monty and Liz were at the height of their beauty so it's worth a watch

All George Stevens movies are worth seeing (at least up to the late 1950s). He started out as a director of photography, on silent comedies. He directed Laurel and Hardy shorts. One Astaire-Rogers movie (arguably the best, Swing Time). Alice Adams, with Katharine Hepburn. Great comedies like Vivacious Lady (Ginger Rogers, James Stewart), The More the Merrier (Jean Arthur Joel McCrea), The Talk of the Town (Arthur, Cary Grant, Ronald Colman). After WWII (his story is told in Five Came Back) his movies became more dramatic, and darker.

Of course.

Shelley and Elizabeth shared a dressing trailer for A Place in the Sun and Shelley adored her. Reading Shelley's autobiography was very entertaining.

OP - Citizen Kane, Vertigo, The Godfather, Mulholland Drive ??

Sunset Blvd, Some Like It Hot, The Battle of Algiers, Forbidden Games, Goodfellas, Rosemary's Baby, All About Eve, The Heiress, Paths of Glory, The Miracle Worker . . . All more memorable and rewatchable

I love A Place in the Sun, first saw it on my 14th birthday at a repertory theater on a rainy day in a bad part of town on a double bill with From Here to Eternity. Patricia Bosworth's Clift biography had just been published in paperback, and my copy was already dog-eared and dilapidated from being read so much, along with an ancient copy of An American Tragedy that I'd lifted from my grandparents' library. This film always takes me back to that time when the world was so romantic and overstated and unattainable. There are better movies. But was there ever a more romantic scene than when Clift and Taylor meet?

I'm not sure, but I know there is no more beautiful couple than Clift and Taylor.

It's a shame Monty never found a nice girl to settle down with!

Gotta say, Suddenly, Last Summer beats it.

Dawson’s 50 Load Weekend

I find Suddenly, Last Summer shallow and sensationalistic. I like it well enough (especially Elizabeth) but what's it really about? I don't really care about those people.

Still has more rewatch value than Place in the Sun.

“Singin’ In The Rain,” OP.

R39 To you

I mean, it is nice to see both sides of Monty’s face, admittedly.

Nice to see him not walking around like a zombie, also.

Oh, the tedious troll compulses again.

Fun trivia: Shelley Winters has played characters that drowned to death in at least 2 movies: A Place in the Sun and Night of the Hunter; some would say 3 counting The Poseidon Adventure, the Belle actually died of a heart attack while almost drowning,

Did I miss any?

R45 Yeah, you missed The Night of the Hunter. Her throat was slit, with a switchblade. She didn't drown.

R44 Go scratch your itchy moles.

What does everyone think of the movie An American Tragedy released in 1931?

Unsolved Mysteries covered the real life murder story that A Place In The Sun was based on. :

R48 it's basically the same story, from the book by John Dos Passos. I've read his books. The movie Place in the Sun is based on the book, American Tragedy, which really fleshes out the story of Monty's character. I highly recommend it.

R50, I thought that Theodore Dreisser wrote the book.

Sylvia Sidney's Alice Tripp is much more sympathetic and attractive than how Shelley Winters plays her. And Frances Dee doesn't have Taylor's allure so that we're left feeling much more ambivalent about Eastman's motivations and actions.

Odd parallels between Phillips Holmes and Clift that would put both squarely in the Sad Tales from Old Hollywood thread: Rumored to be gay, itinerant childhoods on the coattails of the bohemian elite, early promise destroyed by alcohol and no longer wanted by Hollywood, liaisons with Libby Holman (who found gay men intriguing) that ended badly, scandalous drunken car accidents (Mae Clarke sued Holmes for her injuries), early deaths.

[quote]I know there is no more beautiful couple than Clift and Taylor.

You know what, r34? [italic]FUCK YOU![/italic]

Youth isn’t everything!

I wonder if George Stevens wasn't giving the finger to the HUAC committee with that lingering cross-fade of blacklisted Ann Revere.

R51 you're right!! It was Dreiser not Dos Passos. My bad !

What is the most accurate adaptation of the real life crime story?

I'm watching An American Tragedy tonight

I can't help it. I loved Shelley WInters in this role. She is my favorite part of the movie. And I get great satisfaction from the boat/drowning scene.

What would you change about this movie if you could and why?

Carol Burnett's horrendous Zelda was based on what the writers felt would have happened if George and Alice had gotten married.

I momentarily confused this with A Summer Place for a second.

Did anyone already know the ending before they saw the movie?

If so, where did you hear about the ending?

I do like Stevie Wonder’s title track even though it was released far after the motion picture. I suppose you might say it was inspired by rather than created with the famous movie. Still, it’s got a good beat and you can dance to it.

If I were to change anything about the movie it would simply be to expand on Montgomery Clift's character's back story. So maybe adding 20 minutes to the beginning of the movie. Nothing else.

R62 Some of us actually read Dreiser’s novel. It’s a bit of a slog—I much prefer Sister Carrie.

There are four movies I will always watch. Always. A Place in the Sun. Mildred Pierce The Heiress and Shadow of a Doubt. This thread put me in a mood this rainy afternoon, so I typed in the word "Noir" on You Tube and a treasure trove of B movies popped up. I was in heaven.

Monty really does walk around like a zombie in SLS. But it fits in with the gothic vibe.

“A Raisin In The Sun,” obviously.

R68 if you're talking Sidney Poitier and Ruby Dee, Diana Sands and Claudia Mac Neill, then yes, it is a classic. Superb.

Elizabeth looked very beautiful in that movie.

Does anyone think that the courtroom scene was too long?

With the prosecuting attorney ?

God damn it, didn’t mean to post that. The prosecutor smashing the boat up, that was a bit much.

R62 Agreed that Sister Carrie is a lot more pleasant to read, but An American Tragedy is impressive in its own way. It's intensely sad, and really uses length to its advantage. Not too many extra-long great American novels.

Which lady had more screen time: Elizabeth Taylor or Shelley Winters?

I think "Palm Springs Weekend" Is far superior.

Sister Carrie was made into the movie, Carrie, with Laurence Olivier and Jennifer Jones. Olivier is fantastic as Hurstwood. But the movie was cut, before release, I forget if it was due to the production code, or what. It isn't what director William Wyler intended. It's frustrating, but worth a watch. Obviously missing some parts, though.

I'm not as much of a fan of Raymond Burr as many people seem to be. I think he almost throws the film off with his overdone performance as the prosecutor (George Stevens's fault, I guess). He acts weird, like he's consumed with the case in a personal way. Like a mental case.

If you watch carefully, you can notice that Shelley's shoes change in the scene where she goes from the movie theater with Monty, to walking down the street with him, to her rented room.

They go from saddle shoes, to dark-colored loafers, back to saddle shoes, I think. She explains it in her first autobiography that between shots she put on the loafers (I think they were her sister's shoes), then forgot to take them off.

R75, structurally this story was about Shelley more than Elizabeth. Oh, Elizabeth was important. She was the aspirational and the unattainable, the epitome of everything Monty wanted. Incredible Beauty, Wealth, Social Acceptance by High Society. She was his ticket. He would rise in society and at the factory, he would marry the "right girl" and erase the ugly memories of real poverty, and isolation, and craziness of his mother's religious zeal and mission work.

I mean, his mother wasn't even doing anything glamorous or adventurous in the foreign missions with a "real" church. She catered to the skid row bums and alcoholics in a self invented "religious" mission. He found it all very embarrassing. He was ashamed of his parents. His memories from childhood were of the family singing hymns and begging on street corners. And here's Shirley sitting on that boat talking about "We'll be poor but happy."

The boat scene was shot brilliantly. All her scenes were; her drab room, the pitiful birthday cake with melted ice cream. The boat scene was shot from Monty's point of view. And he acted without words for most of it, while Shelley babbled on. Shelley's vision of their future drove him mad. She was dragging him down. He told her, "If anyone found out about them his life his life would be ruined. Her character held the power in the narrative. She could destroy him. She romanticized his failure to achieve his heart's desire. He was struggling with the dilemma of how far he was willing to go. Then, she stood up in the boat, and solved his dilemma.

One of the things I find younger people don't get about the movie is how desperate she is. They say, "Big deal, she's pregnant."

Being unwed and pregnant and alone in those days was bad. She would lose her job. She wasn't supposed to be going out with a co-worker. She would probably have to move out of her room. She would be a social outcast. She didn't have any money to raise a child. The standard thing at the time was, you got her pregnant, you marry her.

She seems demanding, but she has almost no options, as a young woman in that era, and pregnant, to boot.

But when she's being "demanding" she's basically doing what a girl could do, back then. Women to begin with didn't have the advantages, in the society. Not a lot of jobs were open to them.

There wasn't day care, for single mothers. I just think it isn't clear to younger audiences what the background is for what's happening. I suppose that dates the film for some people.

The movie makes it pretty clear how fucked she is. Maybe the kids don’t understand the coded doctor visit exchange?

Also, there was no such thing as safe, legal abortion.

R83 I think everything is understood, as it's happening in the movie.

I just think the world has changed a lot. It's like if a crime movie is made before Miranda, a younger person might ask, "Why don't the cops let him call his lawyer?" Not everyone knows history or the social conventions of another time.

How young are these people we are talking about? Do they get confused when people in movies don’t have electricity? “Why don’t they turn on the lights bruh?”

I'm not going to argue about it. Women didn't even get maternity leave back then in a lot of cases. They were just expected to be married and to quit when they got pregnant (my mom did). I don't know if I'd know this if I were born in 2000, let's say. FMLA wasn't a lw until the early 90s.

Never mind, I was just trying to make a point, that seems fairly obvious. Her plight might not be as well understood today, when getting pregnant out of wedlock is not a big deal. The shame is no longer there, that was very much there in the time the movie is set.

In 1950s America, pregnancy outside of marriage was considered deeply shameful and carried significant social consequences for women. Key aspects of the shame and stigma

Moral Judgment and Social Outcast Status: Unwed mothers were often seen as having transgressed societal norms of sexual morality, viewed as "fallen women" or "morally bankrupt". This led to them being ostracized by their communities and families, experiencing deep shame and becoming social outcasts.

Forced Secrecy and Confinement: Pregnant women who were unmarried faced immense pressure to hide their condition from friends and family. Many were sent away to maternity homes or homes for unwed mothers, operating under strict secrecy rules, sometimes even using assumed names.

Pressure to Relinquish Babies for Adoption: These institutions often coerced unwed mothers into surrendering their babies for adoption, portraying it as the only acceptable solution. Social workers and staff frequently emphasized the difficulties of single motherhood and the perceived benefits of adoption for the child, while downplaying the mother's right to keep her baby, according to The Washington Post.

Discouragement of Marriage: Some maternity homes even discouraged marriage for unwed mothers, possibly to increase the number of babies available for adoption by married couples.

Disruption of Education and Life Plans: Pregnant teenagers and young adults were often forced to drop out of school and college, facing significant interruptions to their education and future prospects.

Psychological Impact: The experience of shame, secrecy, and relinquishment had a profound and often lifelong negative psychological impact on many of these mothers and their children.

One time at a re-showing of "A Place in The Sun" at a fundraiser in La Jolla, the gentlemen running the show told "no cheering for the canoe" in the lake scene. We know you all want Shelly to die!!

It was a rowboat.

Focusing on women’s issues in this movie is another historical fallacy. Misogyny was not the “tragedy” of the story.

I don't think anyone has claimed it was.

Nobody is focusing on "women's issues." This is background on what a character was facing in society as it informs her emotional reactions.

Raymond Burr was shitting splinters until the day he died from all that chewed up scenery.

“Sun” is beautifully shot with the deep focus photography.

Burr was only @ 32 when this was filmed (filmed in 1949, not released until 1951. Stevens took months to edit it). Clift and Shelley were born in 1920. Burr was born in 1917.

Does anyone know the days when filming started and ended?

Probably someone would have to look that up.

Which you could also do.

R97, it's not online

October 1949 to March 1950

If Alice had only learned how to swim.

I watched "Part 1" which took about one hour free on You Tube, and then found another 8 minute segment about Shelley, Monty and the boat on the lake after dark... my favorite scene. After that I was done.

R101, why done?

My favorite thing in the movie is when Angela's father (Sheppard Strudwick) has a sit-down with George and George describes his background. This is some of the greatest acting (by Clift) I've ever seen.

The interesting thing is that George is completely honest, and the dad finds that refreshing.

But George is also totally disingenuous. He lies by omission about the fact that he has another girl somewhere, who's pregnant.

The suspense in the movie is great (though it's not a suspense film)--as the hidden part of his life (Alice) slowly starts to eat away at all he is about to get, both love and success, in marrying Angela. What's also interesting is we never see him as just a gold digger. He really loves Angela (though part of what makes her so attractive is her privilege, and her ease, since she doesn't have to worry about anything or work for anything). I think if he marries her, he'll work hard to support her and try to succeed. He's not just trying to marry money.

But he doesn't have the courage to do the right thing with Alice, he's weak, he tries to somehow have it both ways and ignore the situation. It's like a ignoring a bill you need to pay.

Monty and Shelley, off camera (she's wearing the same penny loafers that she wasn't supposed to be wearing in the earlier filmed scene after the movie).

(At Lake Tahoe.)

R101 here. I would have loved it if I could have found the entire movie on You Tube free to view. But I couldn't. So after I saw what I considered the most important parts I was done. OK?

R106, it's on Tubi for free

My sister, a whore apparently, in high school got pregnant and dropped out in 1962. My mother and father were destroyed. It was a HUGE deal back then.

Oh, yes. Pregnant unmarried women were the scourge of society back then.

OK, so this movie can be found on TUBI? Off topic, can anyone tell me where that other Montgomery Clift masterpiece, The Heiress can be found? I desperately want to see it.

R110, there's dvds on ebay

Go to a library, get a library card, if they don't have it they will get it for you on inter-library loan. All for free, since you pay taxes.

R110

R113 I have made arrangements to include you in my will. Bless you!!!I just finished watching it!!! "Bolt the door, Maria!" I love this movie.

It looks really good on Blu ray.

I’m glad that you enjoyed it R114. I’m going to rewatch it soon.

Who agrees that Elizabeth should have had more screen time?

I would say Elizabeth had enough screen time.

She's almost an ideal, from George's point of view. Too much more and we would have had to start to see her humanness and her flaws, or risk her seeming too perfect. If you see what I mean.

Here's a behind the scenes shot at Lake Tahoe that shows how cold it was when filming the scene with her and Clift (as Taylor often said).

R117 not me. It would have been too much. The director rightly focused his story on Monty and the choices he made. There wasn't much to Elizabeth's character. She was a symbol more than a real person. No way could she begin to comprehend his desperation or appreciate what he was running away from. Shelly represented reality in his world.

Does anyone know how different the director's cut was from the released version?

How much longer was it, etc?

That link to archive.org that R113 posted is a treasure trove of Noir films. I am in heaven. Once again, my will...you're in it!

My God. It's not as if Internet Archive is a secret vault.

Can you stream internet archive films on your tv? How do you do it?

True R122, but why didn’t you recommend checking there or providing the link to it instead of suggesting a trip to the library?

R124 Why is that better?

It would have been the helpful thing to do.

R126 Oh, go fuck yourself.

I love the Internet Archive