Why is Jackie Gleason largely forgotten?

My grandma wrote a fan letter to Gleason and mentioned they had the same birthday. On her next birthday she received a dozen roses and an autographed pic from The Great One.

Variety stars are just not as well remembered as sitcom stars.

Is he anymore forgotten than Jack Benny or George Burns?

He probably doesn't get enough credit for creating and his role as Ralph Cramden in The Honeymooners. Michael Imperioli (Christopher, Sopranos) talked about him a lot in Talking Sopranos (YouTube). He wrote 39 episodes (Honeymooners), according to IMDB.

Don't forget, r4, he also wrote the theme music!

He had hardcore fans, but I always just found him annoying. In real life he seemed pretentious as fuck, but for awhile he was the top of the NYC scene and showbiz pyramid. I do wish that I had a regular table at Toots Shor's though...

He died 35 years ago and his career was over 50 years ago. A 50 year-old today wouldn’t have even grown up with him.

[quote] I always just found him annoying

Yes, and physically repellant. I assume he died from heart failure.

It was diabetes and colon cancer.

He's not. Smoky and the Bandit

The Honeymooners was a great show! I loved him in that.

R2, See r11.

That which makes you famous and unique must be consistently fascinating and/or pleasing for cultural relevance.

Few from that era meet this standard: Monroe, Crawford, Dean, Ball.

Gleason died at a reasonable age, was physically unappealing, has no infamy and while clearly talented, played the foe. What’s to examine or love?

Fame is weird. I watched the Chaplin doc on Showtime a while back. He was SOOOO famous. And now? He's just a footnote at best.

Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, etc will (mostly) be forgotten in a short time. Even though they are as famous as one can be now.

Gleason has been dead 35 or 36 years.

Many dataloungers have little or no idea who he is.

He was grotesquely fat and a major asshole.

I'm 42, so not super old, and I know who he is. My dad used to watch Honeymooners reruns on tv.

One of my favorite photos, I would love to know what they're talking about.

"A 50 year-old today wouldn't have even grown up with him"

So if it happened before your birth- it's irrelevant?

He had a tragic childhood in Brooklyn. Only sibling, an older brother, died at 14. When he was 9, his father took his paycheck and just up and left the family - his mother had to go to work on the subway. She had a cyst that Jackie himself lanced on her neck - it got infected and she died of sepsis, leaving him with 36 cents in his pocket. He had dropped out of high school to work in show business, as a carnival barker, stunt driver, pool hall and theater attendant, etc. Even succeeded in music though he couldn't read or write music (described the tunes in his head to assistants who wrote the notes down)...

What a guy. I remember him as well as the other elder tv stars - George Burns, Danny Thomas, Perry Como - he didn't really cross over into films, did he? That might have made him more memorable, but all those 1950s people are most a blur.

I’m 54 and I remember him but not from TV. I only saw (and loved) him in movies like The Hustler and Smoky and the Bandit. And he’s Jason Patrick’s grandfather.

Jackie's UFO house.

The Honeymooners are on every Sunday night on MeTV and there are occasional marathons on New Year’s, etc.

He’s hardly forgotten.

Gen X kids grew up watching the Smokey and the Bandit movies. And The Toy. The Honeymooners was boring as shit and put us to sleep on Nick at Night. We remember him.

I remember as a child seeing his TV show, from Miami Beach Florida, how sweet it is.

I didn't know he was a close friend of Nixon. I didn't know Nixon had friends.

He had a very limited appeal. And unlike Benny or George Burns, he had huge personal issues (like basically trying to help his mother, but killing her instead) that lead to his heavy, heavy drinking and smoking. It's amazing he lived as long as he did.

"The Honeymooners" is shown on the MeTv channel, he's not exactly "forgotten." Anyone interested in entertainers from different eras would know who he was.

I was a little kid watching The Honeymooners on black and white TV. And later The Jackie Gleason Show (Miami Beach audiences are the greatest!). The drive and talent that compelled the Gleasons, the Allans, the Bennys, etc., that they remain so memorable even after 60+ years. That drive/talent is long gone, replaced by mediocrity and smartphones.

He had such an interesting career. I didn't realize he performed music until a few years ago and I really enjoy his music.

I remember him from the '80s movie Nothing in Common with Tom Hanks.

We could rattle off a list one mile long of performers who were once beloved household names and are now almost completely forgotten. Almost all of today's "legends" will meet the same fate in 50 years.

Here's an interview from 1984, a few years before he croaked. Note the non-stop smoking...

Too fat.

[quote] Variety stars are just not as well remembered as sitcom stars.

r2 Umm, he had a classic early sitcom, "The Honeymooners".

He never came across as likable or all that interesting. All his fans are dead. None of the episodes of The Honeymooners have become classics in the public consciousness, unlike the way most people (of all ages) can name several classic or at least favorite episodes of I Love Lucy. He only made two good movies, The Hustler and Nothing in Common, decades apart, and neither of those films has much of a following. He was talented, a legend to some, but like so many, not in the wider popular culture.

[quote] Here's an interview from 1984, a few years before he croaked. Note the non-stop smoking...

r32 Why would I give a fuck about his smoking? What does that have to do with the interview?

If he comes up again, he'll probably be cancelled for promoting spousal abuse for constantly threatening to send Alice to the moon.

The Great One! Jackie Gleason is not forgotten, some examples are mentioned upthread. But the Honeymooners episodes are all over YouTube with thousands of views and comments. He made his mark on the world, and then he died. That's life. :-)

He's most remembered for The Honeymooners being ripped off as The Flintstones and Family Guy.

[quote] If he comes up again, he'll probably be cancelled for promoting spousal abuse for constantly threatening to send Alice to the moon.

r37 Alice was such dry bitch housefrau, I don't blame him for the moon threats.

R36, his chain-smoking was a sign of his deep, deep insecurity rooted in his childhood, as was his heavy drinking. Safer notes he had a heart attack a few years earlier, and still smoked 5 packs a day...

R40 = Henry Rush

He was a really bad father.

I love Jackie Gleason and The Honeymooners, and I'm very dismayed by many of the the remarks posted here.

If you don't like him, it's either because you don't recognize true talent, or because you don't approve of his vices (as if most DLers have any room to talk).

Those of you who are bored by The Honeymooners (a classic TV gem), watch The Hustler, a well-remembered classic Paul Newman movie (and don't forget about the young Piper Laurie, AKA "Sin never dies!" in Carrie). If you can't appreciate that film, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I've practically stopped watching TV completely within the last year or two, the programming is so insipid. I only wish the generations coming up behind me could write something as worth watching repeatedly as The Honeymooners (although I really enjoyed Mom with Allison Janney).

My mother was a fan of his Saturday night program, especially a sketch character called "the Poor Soul" and another sketch with Frank Fontaine as Crazy Guggenheim, the town drunk. I found these so creepy, I wouldn't watch. I'd leave the room.

His daughter Linda would grow up and marry playwright Jason Miller. They brought into the world a son we know as actor Jason Patric. In 1978, she played Erica's friend Jeanette in An Unmarried Woman.

Who knew Jackie Gleason and Jasmine Guy would have a connection.

Jackie's daughter, Judy Geeson, married director Guy Hamilton, brother of George and Margaret.

He's hardly forgotten! The Honeymooners is always being shown somewhere- Joyce Randolph, aka Trixie is still very much alive.

His statue is in front of the Port Authority Bus Terminal and the Bus Depot in Brooklyn at 36th street is named after him.

The Christmas episode from the classic 39 is a beautiful gem with more genuine warmth and holiday spirit than every single Hallmark Christmas movie ever made.

Isn't he the grandfather of former 80's "hottie" Jason Patric?

It's funny how in the OP's pic Gleason looks like he's wearing a tiny pearl earing.

Either that or it was a poor airbrushing attempt to obliterate a rather spectacular zit.

[Quote]He died 35 years ago and his career was over 50 years ago. A 50 year-old today wouldn’t have even grown up with him.

The original Honeymooners were in nightly reruns during the 70s and 80s and he was in the Smokey and the Bandit films in the late 70s and he costarred with Richard Pryor in The Toy (1982}and Tom Hanks in Nothing in Common (1986) and his earlier films The Hustler, Don't Drink the Water, Soldier in the Ran were frequently televised in the 70s and 80s. I'm 56 and did grow up with him.

1984 Profile

Does anyone remember the movie "Nothing in Common"? It starred Gleason, Tom Hanks, Eva Marie Saint, Sela Ward, and Hector Alizondo.

I know it wasn't a box off/critical hit, but I've always liked the film, think it's an good, early example that Hanks has more going on with his acting than just being comedic.

I really enjoyed Gleason in the film - one of those rare, good dramatic roles.

I enjoyed him as Sheriff Buford T. Justice.

He headlined Otto Preminger's indescribable Skidoo (1968)

[quote] The drive and talent that compelled the Gleasons, the Allans, the Bennys, etc., that they remain so memorable even after 60+ years.

The point of this thread is that they were NOT "so memorable" because in actuality no one remembers them anymore.

[quote] If you don't like him, it's either because you don't recognize true talent, or because you don't approve of his vices (as if most DLers have any room to talk).

What a tedious type you are.

r54 Featuring DL icon Carol Channing!

Because wokeys. To the moon, Alice!

[quote] My mother was a fan of his Saturday night program, especially a sketch character called "the Poor Soul" and another sketch with Frank Fontaine as Crazy Guggenheim, the town drunk. I found these so creepy, I wouldn't watch. I'd leave the room.

r45 Hilarious. I looked up "The Poor Soul". Yeah, smarmy pandering crap. It's creepy. You were an alert kid.

That being said, I loved Ralph in "The Honeymooners".

Does crypto bros’ cry of “To the moon!” count as remembrance?

r60 Lol. I'm glad that Alice bitch got what was coming to her.

Jacqueline Susann based the character Christie Lane on Gleason in her novel “The Love Machine”.

I wouldn't say he's forgotten. He made an appearance on Family Guy.

I beg to differ, R55. Many of us remember Burns, Benny, and Gleason -and I would bet that they will be remembered and talked about long after you (and I) are gone.

Gleason was a major UFO enthusiast, and when he was near death he used his friendship with Nixon to get special permission to visit Area 51 and learn more about UFO files. He never told anyone what he saw/learned, but he did say he could die happy, knowing the truth.

My favorite Gleason film was Don't Drink the Water, based on the play by Woody Allen. Allen didn't care for Gleason's performance, or the film, but I find it infinitely superior to the remake starring Allen and the always-wonderful Julie Kavner.

The picture linked in the OP looks like Sam Smith.

I'm 45 and never liked the honeymooners despite it featuring often on the television but he was excellent in the Hustler and the Smokey and the Bandit movies. I didn't know that he produced numerous lounge albums which sound excellent as well. He was a great American star from the golden age and that is a fact

I'm 50 and I remember him, but not fondly. What I remember most is some movie he did with Tom Hanks that played constantly on HBO.

I also remember clips and scenes from The Honeymooners, and I loathed him. I might have been too young to understand the big, yelling man was supposed to be humorous. I hated that whole show. The dingy apartment and the black-and-white that wasn't luminous or pretty like other shows and him shouting all the time.

I should give the show another look because I might feel differently as an adult. But I wonder if others my age and younger just didn't like the character of his we were exposed to most.

He was a nasty Republican asshole, which is why he is loved by the trolls that haunt The Datalounge. So... WE ALL BETTER REMEMBER HIM and REVERE HIM or they'll have A MELTDOWN! Fucking conservative snowflakes.

R67 Nothing in Common, his final film

He played assholes in Nothing in Common and The Hustler. He didn't have to act, he played himself.

[quote] I also remember clips and scenes from The Honeymooners, and I loathed him. I might have been too young to understand the big, yelling man was supposed to be humorous. I hated that whole show. The dingy apartment and the black-and-white that wasn't luminous or pretty like other shows and him shouting all the time.

r67 I disagree strongly here. The dingy black and white and the old school paternalistic 50's couple living in a small apartment - it was a glimpse into a distant era of American history.

Also, it showed the abusive husband. But also the wife who was the real manipulator. He never dare hit her and she ran the show.

It was working class American life in the 1950's. No other tv shows from that time portray that degree of realism.

We are forever indebted to him.

I Love Lucy showed realistic working class American life. Lucy herself insisted on a limited wardrobe for Lucy Ricardo as her character would not be able to afford different clothes for every episode. You can see many of her outfits repeated over the length of the series. She only dressed up when she wore costumes from Ricky's club. Many of the episodes are about money and Lucy's desire for better clothes, furniture, appliances, or wanting to travel. Lucy was also shot on 35mm film which is why it's always looked good in reruns, while many of The Honeymooners were done on kinescope and still look like crap despite the attempt to restore them digitally.

Jackie Gleason appeared in five shows on Broadway between 1940 and 1960 and won a Tony Award for hid last one, TAKE ME ALONG.

[quote] I Love Lucy showed realistic working class American life.

r73 I agree there was a similarity between "I Love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners". Both were about the lives of 1950's urban apartment dwellers.

But Lucy was more over-the-top, about show people, not your average American bus driver or sewer worker.

The Ricardos were lumpen proletariat. The Cramdens were real proles.

Pert Kelton (Mrs. Paroo from "The Music Man") was the original Alice Kramden. She later ended up playing Alice's mother.

I’m 49 and loved watching the honeymooners repeats on tv since I was born

As a little kid he scared the shit out of me.

I wonder if they based the Flintstones and Rubbles on the Honeymooners couples.

You have to wonder, r79???

R45, do you remember his Joe the Bartender characters on that variety show (and The June Taylor Dancers)?

I remember my father playing a phonograph record he had by Gleason. All I can recall is it was a spoken one, where he comes to his young son's bedroom at night to abjectly apologize for treating him harshly that day.

Jackie's sudden bursts of rage were supposed to be funny...

[quote] He was a great American star from the golden age and that is a fact

No, R66, that is an opinion.

He was called the Great One, r83.

I want to hear R79's take on "Sgt. Bilko" and "Top Cat."

R83 You are totally wrong. What that poster said is indeed a fact.

For the entire decades of the 1950s and 60s Gleason was about as "A" list as anyone could get.

He was massively popular.

R84 And I was called the Biggest Cock in Ptown.

R86 "Was". Now he's forgotten.

He was massively popular in the days when there was nothing on TV.

R73, the classic 39, one season only, were filmed and those are the episodes most often in circulation.

This guy is similar. Similarly ugly.

He wasn't loud enough.

[quote]"Was". Now he's forgotten.

Once again, you are wrong.

Go to YouTube. Clips from his shows have hundreds of thousands of views. Some with well over a million views.

He is a part of TV history.

Of course young people have never heard of him. I know young people who have never head off the Beatles. Who cares?

Exactly, who cares about Jackie Gleason?

[quote]Exactly, who cares about Jackie Gleason?

Apparently you do.

95 posts and you're still here.

Two Irish/Welsh drunks. Obese and obnoxious.

My favorite part of The Honeymooners were the constant threats of violence.

Oh yeah right, Alice absolutely cowered.

Women had all the power in 1950's relationships. Especially in the workplace.

Yes, if you think so, R99.

Is that why they made that awful male chauvinist propaganda TV show called "Father Knows Best"?

Make Room for Daddy.

[quote]Jackie Gleason appeared in five shows on Broadway between 1940 and 1960 and won a Tony Award for his last one, TAKE ME ALONG.

Thank God it wasn't TAKE ME OUT.

[quote] he had huge personal issues (like basically trying to help his mother, but killing her instead) that lead to his heavy, heavy drinking and smoking.

An armchair psychiatrist who doesn’t know the difference between lead and led? Not surprising.

The funny thing is, today we are inundated with "stars" that no one knows. You'll hear it all the time concerning the Oscars or the Emmys "Who ARE these people". Everything is so splintered now. And genuine stars are fewer and fewer. They come and go quickly.

Not many today will ever reach the level of fame that Jackie Gleason did. Two solid decades of television. A long running show with his name in the title. And the iconic Honeymooners. As well as his films and stage work.

As years pass all stars fade. Only a few remain in the public's consciousness. But that doesn't lesson their legacy.

Who?

To those who are saying he was an asshole, or was mean or whatever, where are you getting your information?

He was widely beloved in both the public and the industry. He didn’t have a reputation as a prima donna or someone difficult to work with. Maybe you’re confusing the characters he played with the person?

Unlike other variety shows of his era, there's a dearth of Jackie Gleason's show on YouTube.

[quote] Many of us remember Burns, Benny, and Gleason -and I would bet that they will be remembered and talked about long after you (and I) are gone.

You mean just like Fred Allen and Kate Smith and Major Bowes and Arthur Godfrey are?

Pay attention, R105!

The previous poster said this dead man was "iconic".

"Iconic" is the favourite word used by illiterates to describe the second-rate.

[quote] Burns, Benny, and Gleason

What a trio!

One homosexualist and two braggarts.

I heard he was a bisexual pedo, and a nepo baby.

He had a glass eye.

R109 Learn English

Iconic certainly applies to Gleason: "widely recognized and well-established", "widely known and acknowledged especially for distinctive excellence"

All of which he was considered during his career.

You might want to learn a little about the enduring legacy of the Honeymooners....a series with only 39 episodes. Tell us, what other TV show with only a years run can equal its impact:

Mama's Family was funnier.

R13 ...Chaplin a footnote? You must be another clueless millennial...

Honeymooners is 8th on RollingStone's Greatest TV sitcoms of all time:

‘The Simpsons’, ‘Cheers’, ‘Seinfeld’, ‘I Love Lucy’, ‘All in the Family’, ‘M*A*S*H*’, ‘The Mary Tyler Moore Show’ , ‘The Honeymooners’

There was supposed to be a 40th episode but Alice was finally killed on a trip to the moon.

[quote] Alice was finally killed

Did the fat man finally wallop her to death?

She died nine days after receiving a concussion and slipping into a coma. Ralph pulled the plug with the iconic line, "Today's the day, Alice"

Literal violence!

(So 2022.)

However, most people were sophisticated enough to understand Ralph Kramden and the dynamics between him and Alice.

My father was a dead ringer for Gleason, except slim, broad-shouldered, and quite handsome. He was one of those vets who never really leaves the battle zones, so when my brothers and I would act up in the car, he would say, very quietly, "You're going to be sorry when i park this car."

When we stopped, we kids would fly out the doors and fan out through the neighborhood. We wouldn't come back till he was asleep (he went off very early).

Strangers would say, "Hey, Jackie, you lost weight," and he would get really angry. If they didn't back down, he'd fight them.

It's...

Jackie Gleason is long forgotten but The June Taylor Dancers are on the tip over every Gen Z tongue.

[quote] There was supposed to be a 40th episode but Alice was finally killed on a trip to the moon.

I read this with joy, and then i realized you were talking about Alice Kramden.

I'm still reeling over the Chaplin is no more than a footnote comment.

"You mean just like Fred Allen and Kate Smith and Major Bowes and Arthur Godfrey are?"

Well, yes. You remembered them enough to comment, right?

Do you actually understand there is some middle ground between being at the height of one's fame and being forgotten? You can't go by what today's young people know. If you went by that, Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach have all been forgotten, along with Renoir, Monet, and Van Gogh. And the Beatles. As long as we have television, we'll still be studying its past, and people like Gleason, Berle, Burns, Benny, etc. will indeed be remembered. No, they won't be the names everyone is talking about -but they will be remembered and appreciated for their talents and contribution to our culture.

[quote] they will be remembered and appreciated for their talents …

Yes, R126. And we can re-evaluate their "talent" with fresh eyes.

For instance, I reckon that Burns was OK when he was partnered with Gracie but utterly obnoxious without her.

R127 reckons wrong.

There's a huge difference between high culture (Mozart, Bach, Melville, Woolf, etc.) and popular culture. Popular culture is meant to be disposable. High culture is meant to be remembered.

95% of "popular culture" is mindless trash.

[quote]For instance, I reckon that Burns was OK when he was partnered with Gracie but utterly obnoxious without her.

R127 The George Burns & Gracie Allen duo lasted for over 30 years. Stage, screen, radio and TV. How many comedy acts can claim such a run? How many comedians? Name them.

His career continued without her. He went on to win an Academy Award in 1975 at the age of 80.

Ofcorse younger people have no idea who he is. What else is new? But that doesn't not diminish his importance in 20th century American pop culture.

On YouTube, episodes of "The Burns and Allen Show" and "The Jack Benny Show" have tens of thousands of views.

Someone is watching them.

Personally I like Gleason. My Dad found him so amusing, just to have seen him happy means I also like the great 1. Gleason had an Irish temperament that Archie Bunker’s character couldn’t accurately replicate. He had a horrible life early on, as other helpful posters have shared. He was a strong man, in an era with no safe spaces. He may have felt the need to self medicate. So, his humor and his about to explode vibe was funny because I think people sensed his choice to survive . He looked super unhealthy and about to explode and he would yell and it was quite over the top and quite surreal. People with that history today would have killed themselves 20 times in a row after whining about it 30 times in a row. I’m not excusing violence or meanness though.

He wisely had The Honeymooners recorded on film instead of Kinescope. And made big bucks off the videos, licensing, syndication, etc. for years afterwards.

He's excellent on the OBC album of "Take Me Along" singing "Sid, Ol' Kid." He's got a very pleasant comic singing voice, and such excellent comic timing.

What R7 said. X 2.

Is The Honeymooners on anymore? I haven't seen it in years...and it used be on nightly, around 11 pm. With all the nostalgia shows and channels, it should be on somewhere.

It hasn't been on in 30 years R136.

One of these days...

"Gleason has been dead 35 or 36 years.

Many dataloungers have little or no idea who he is."

That hardly matters, Marilyn Monroe has been dead longer than Gleason and she's still just as famous and remembered. I think Gleason was funny guy but that's about all.

When I watched The Jackie Gleason Show, I thought it was so glamorous. I was a kid then.

[quote] Marilyn Monroe has been dead longer than Gleason and she's still just as famous and remembered.

Because Marilyn Monroe was a silver screen, old-Hollywood icon and deservedly remembered R139. Everybody knows who Marilyn Monroe is.

Two fat men together.

One is self-deprecating and the other is a deprecator.

[quote] It hasn't been on in 30 years [R136].

The fuck are you talking about? It was on WPIX as recently as last night.

BECAUSE HE WAS AN ASSHOLE

NEXT!

The June Taylor Dancers were a gay-teway drug to Busby Berkeley, Judy Garland, and Fred & Ginger.

Burns & Allen, Jack Benny, and the Honeymooners are on NATIONWIDE every night on either MeTV, Decades, or Antenna TV.

[quote] Burns & Allen, Jack Benny, and the Honeymooners are on NATIONWIDE every night on either MeTV, Decades, or Antenna TV.

Favorites with teenagers everywhere!

So true, r145...

Jackie Gleason = Fattie Gleason

Gen Z have not even heard of celebrities from the 90s. Wake up!

JFC you people expect any comedian or entertainer to have a long shelf life? The Beatles will be largely forgotten in 100 years. I'm sure most teenagers today couldn't name one Beatles song.

We're talking about pop culture. Gleason was an epic GREAT. But no one will know who he was in 100 years.

The 19th century French actress Sarah Bernhardt is widely regarded by historians as the greatest actress of all time. I've always known the name. But I know nothing else about her, what roles she played, or what she even looks like.

I just find it hilarious that many are trashing Gleason because he's no longer a household name. That's not the measure of greatness for an actor or comedian. They're pop culture. They're all temporary.

[quote]The 19th century French actress Sarah Bernhardt is widely regarded by historians as the greatest actress of all time.

Hardly, r151.

Hardly, r152

[Quote]Gen Z have not even heard of celebrities from the 90s. Wake up!

That would be true of this year's Kennedy Center Honoree George Clooney. No one under 20 has any idea who he is. They don't watch Roseanne or ER and are unfamiliar with the forgettable films he appeared in i.e., Up in the Air, Michael Clayton, The Good German, Syriana, Burn After Reading, Hail, Caeser! Oceans 11, 12, 13 . . .

R151 Sarah Bernhardt is forgotten.

She never appeared on US TV.

It doesn't take being part of pop culture to be "temporary," sweetheart.

At least to those who don't care enough to look something up, as with you, who knows The Divine's name but never took 30 seconds to learn a bit about her, despite claiming that it is accepted that she was the greatest. There is a difference between being forgotten and not being remembered by those who never knew you.

Gleason was lucky in his timing - in life and on the stage. But his is not a talent (loud, oppressive, grossly suave, ego-driven, "sensitive," a womanizer of size and well-oiled through it all) that contemporary audiences find appealing.

[quote] At least to those who don't care enough to look something up, as with you, who knows The Divine's name but never took 30 seconds to learn a bit about her, despite claiming that it is accepted that she was the greatest.

r156 The only Divine I know starred in Pink Flamingos. 🤣

Huh? I don't care about Sarah Bernhardt any more than I care about Thomas Aquinas. I'm not a theater critique or a Catholic theologian. You miss the point. An actor's fame is short lived. The most famous actor who ever lived was John Wilkes Booth. Shove that up your pretentious ass because no dick will go anywhere near it. 🤣

You don't like Gleason? Yeah, you don't like brash crude heterosexual males. So? We're not talking about his sex life.

-Emperor Elagabalus, Plato, Sal Mineo, La Bowie, Friedrich Nietzsche, Morrissey

The Jackie Gleason stans insist you must DROOL over him and his iconic expanded waistline.

Gen X here who fondly recalls 11pm airings of The Honeymooners in the NYC area. For New Year’s they ran a marathon. Love the cast, especially Art Carney.

Gleason, like a lot of people his age in the 1960s, burned quite a few bridges by going out of his way to label war protesters, Civil Rights protesters, and hippies as indecent. He even started a "Teenagers for Decency" movement with rallies and concerts after being offended that Jim Morrison allegedly dropped trou at a concert in Miami.

There's another photo here. I'm reading a thread about it on Twitter and apparently Gleason had several "decency" concerts? One in Tulsa with the Beach Boys!

Gleason really wasn't going to survive in the public consciousness if he was making public appearances at rallies where he's telling you that you weren't behaving decently enough, and if he was stuck playing irredeemable assholes and nothing else. Also, let's be honest, "The Honeymooners" didn't age well.

[quote] "Teenagers for Decency"

r160 Okay I hate his fat moralistic ass. 🤣

^ ^ ^ Oops, forgot to sign.

[quote] The Divine's name … it is accepted that she was the greatest.

1. Bernhardt's best friend was named Monsieur Worms.

2. She had some illness and immediately her belly swelled out so she was as fat as general Bismarck

3. There was cheap and nasty movie about her starring the acid-faced Glenda Jackson.

4. She gave her name to some lesbian New Yorker associate to the trashy Madonna.

[quote] I wonder if they based the Flintstones and Rubbles on the Honeymooners couples.

That's a fact. Fred is obviously Ralph.

Jason & Linda were pretty.

R131, Burns "continued" to have a career after an 18 year gap. Allen was indeed the star of their show.

And their son Ronnie was hot.

She's charming and he's charmless.

He's the straight man who feeds her her lines.

[quote]Gleason was lucky in his timing - in life and on the stage. But his is not a talent (loud, oppressive, grossly suave, ego-driven, "sensitive," a womanizer of size and well-oiled through it all) that contemporary audiences find appealing.

Loud, oppressive? Are you talking about Kevin Hart or Leslie Jones?

Ronnie was an adopted son, R167.

R157, telling people they missed your point and then repeating the point is similar to the old jokey argument about the test for insanity.

I never said I didn't like Gleason. I was providing you and the OP with information on WHY Gleason is not currently, as fools say, "iconic." I thought that, rather than your various loosely plopped "thoughts," was the point of the thread.

How nice that you don't care about great figures who have been forgotten, including or excluding this "Great One." However, it's not really about who YOU have never bothered about.

Work on the reasoning skills, though. You sound like a teenager badgering her friend to prove herself right about.... something.

Loud and unfunny

[quote]And [Gracie and George Burns’s] son Ronnie was hot.

He also guest starred in one episode of the Honeymooners.

[quote]Gleason was lucky in his timing - in life and on the stage. But his is not a talent (loud, oppressive, grossly suave, ego-driven, "sensitive," a womanizer of size and well-oiled through it all) that contemporary audiences find appealing.

So dumb.

Here's the untalented, loud, oppressive Jackie Gleason in "The Hustler" for which he was nominated for an Academy Award.

^ Minnesota Fats = malevolent, obese, a walking heart-attack.

R175 Stick with those Hallmark Christmas movies. Lots of lovely, kind, and fit folks.

Re: George Burns

[quote]He's the straight man who feeds her her lines.

Duh.

(gotta be the stupidest post here.)

If you have Comcast, MeTV may be taken off? I have Verizon Fios, but when I watched MeTV....there was a banner on the screen saying negotiations are underway for MeTV and Comcast?

[quote]If you have Comcast, MeTV may be taken off? I have Verizon Fios, but when I watched MeTV....there was a banner on the screen saying negotiations are underway for MeTV and Comcast?

MeTV is not a cable channel.

R177 but he was, Blanche, he was! They tried it the other way and nobody laughed. Then they switched roles (with him as the straight man) and hit gold with the new shtick!!

He was a lot happier in the straight-man role than Dean Martin was, but then he couldn't sing.

I got all this from watching an interview with him years ago. He was lost after Gracie died. Tried to remake the daffy dingbat and line-feeder duo with Connie Stevens, of all people, in Vegas. I don't think that lasted long.

R96 The fat one on the left isn't fat drunk Welshman Dylan Thomas.

It's a fat drunk Irishman.

[quote] George Burns

Had a threatening demeanour just like George Raft.

Never looked at the camera. Always scowling.

R88, So you define "greatness" strictly as "remembered by you and people you know personally"?

Because if you insist on denying the significance of contemporaneous accounts and accolades, not to mention the fact that Gleason's shows are yet being televised, you are revealing yourself as thinking like a child. Indeed, that entire networks devote their programming to "forgotten greats" destroys your argument on the face of it.

But the silver lining to such puerility is that you must perforce agree that you will be forgotten!

Whoever said "Judy Geeson": Stick to your day job.

Whoever said there wasn't much on television back then: It was like Katherine Hepburn's frame---Not much, but what was there was cherce. Lots of live performances, dramas, music, etc. Imagine a live "No Exit" today! Or the esteemed Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, waxing sternly philosophical without wanting your money! Or the slyly adult "children's shows" of Soupy Sales or Howdy Doody or the real ones like Romper Room and the Mickey Mouse Club. Or the brilliant comedy of Ernie Kovacs, Steve Allen, Milton Berle, Red Skelton, Nichols and May, and the many erstwhile Borscht Belt comics. Or the OG Sitcoms: I Married Joan, The Goldbergs, My Little Margie, Our Miss Brooks, etc.

Sure, TV tuned out at "bedtime," but before then Americans were treated to every now-icon of DL, often live or "taped before a live audience."

Ah, well. We old fogies can at least still watch our long-ago faves (and we watched them in deep snow and without shoes! Get off my lawn, you whippersnapper!). Do young people even have favorite television shows?

Classic:

Ralph, trying to learn golf: "Wait a minute. What do they mean by 'address the ball'?"

Norton: "Hellooo, ball!"

[quote]Fame is weird. I watched the Chaplin doc on Showtime a while back. He was SOOOO famous. And now? He's just a footnote at best.

CHAPLIN is a footnote? I'm assuming you mean Charles Chaplin (not Ben Chaplin, or some other Chaplin). Are you mad? Just curious.

I don't think Jackie is forgotten. Don't the Honeymooners 39 episodes still play on TV? He was in several dramatic movies - Soldier In The Rain, Requiem For A Heavyweight, the aforementioned The Hustler...he starred on Broadway in Take Me Along (musical of Ah, Wilderness!)...he still starred movies in the 70s...I would say Red Skelton is more forgotten than Gleason.

He was one of those entertainers who was a huge star in his time but his persona and "schtick" just didn't translate to later generations. He was very much of his time.

Bing Crosby is another example of a huge star in his day who is barely remembered now, except for White Christmas. He won and Oscar and had dozens of hit songs but who can name them?

Jacqueline Susann mercilessly parodied him as "Christie Lane" in The Love Machine. It was a pretty brutal takedown.

R185 I can name some of them. Swingin' On A Star, Accentuate The Positive, Moonlight Becomes You, Don't Fence Me In.

When I was a kid I remember the musical Honeymooners episodes (with Sheila MacRae and Jane Kean) - where they went to Europe, etc. - that was probably the late 60s? I didn't realize until later these were remakes of earlier b&w shows from the 50s (with Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph). This was unusual at the time, they basically presented an hour-long musical every week. In the 50s, it may have been live, not sure about the later ones, but they were "taped live" at any rate.

[quote]Gleason, like a lot of people his age in the 1960s, burned quite a few bridges by going out of his way to label war protesters, Civil Rights protesters, and hippies as indecent.

Quite a few celebrities of Gleason's generation lost their fucking minds in the 60s, with the huge social and cultural upheavals fostered by the younger generation. They really didn't know how to handle it. They were also pissed that there was a new generation in charge of the culture, since they had been the gatekeepers for so many years.

I'll remember him as the 1950s sitcom star who didn't throw coffee in my face!

I think, various re-runs on television and YouTube aside, what the "They're all forgotten" crowd really means is that though these erstwhile great entertainers are still "available," they not part of our daily discourse.

Alas, both print and on-line media overwhelm the national conversation with innumerable dime-store (Insta-gram, Tik-Tok, Facebook, whatever) "celebrities" for the Kardashian Generation.** Eyes-On = Advertisers = $$ = Fame = Reality TV.

** You DO realize this family, now exploiting the youngest offspring, will be thrust in our faces for as long as we, and they, live?

Think about that. And lament anyone's forgetting the Jackie Gleasons of the Entertainment World.

Have the ancient Jackie Gleason stans finished fucking his corpse?

There ARE other threads for you, if you've finished your homework.

Jackie Gleason was a star. A bloated gas giant.

Jacqueline Susann is far more forgotten than the stars she parodied, or wrote romans a clef about.

Maybe I missed it but has anyone given the guy credit for all the weight he lost? He was relatively slim later on.

Also he was the first to mock his own weight on The Honeymooners (his show) - Alice and Norton were always telling him, especially Alice - bluntly - he was fat. I remember a big laugh I got when Ralph was going on and on about how Norton worked in the sewer, and how he would never stoop to that. "You think I'd go down that manhole? I wouldn't!" Alice: "You couldn't."

R190 Great post. People like Gleason were famous for their ability to entertain, and their acting talent. Not for being famous. They had to produce entertainment every week. He played numerous characters, aside from Ralph Kramden - The Poor Soul, Joe The Bardender, Reggie Van Gleason III. He also did a good standup routine at the beginning of the show. He showcased the June Taylor Dancers (who were good), and Sammy Spear and his Orchestra (also good). It was the pre-"irony", pre-jaded, pre-rock (more or less) era.

Not forgotten by me. He was a brilliant comedian. And he had charisma to spare in The Hustler. "Look at that fat man move!"

[quote]Ralph, trying to learn golf: "Wait a minute. What do they mean by 'address the ball'?"

“Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Who am I playing golf with, Mr. Marshall or a mountain lion?!”

[quote]He was a lot happier in the straight-man role than Dean Martin was, but then he couldn't sing.

R180 George would hatel you for saying that.

It has to do with time OP It will happen to almost everyone. This guy was very popular for a while and now . . .Cable Guy, Ace Ventura, The Truman Show, Liar, Liar . . .anyone

^ Is that a genuine broken tooth?

He was talented, all right. I just never liked him that much as a comedian. There was a cold, aggressive, mean streak in him. He would have been better suited playing ruthless bad guys in classic films. But the success of the TV sitcom typecast him in lighter comedy roles.