Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Do you believe the Menendez brothers testimony?

If they were lying, holy shit they deserve an Oscar for their performance on the stand. I was only seven during their first trial in 1993, so barely have any recollection of the events.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 159January 23, 2023 7:11 AM

I now believe them. New evidence has come out. The parents were monsters.

by Anonymousreply 1December 10, 2022 5:35 PM

They're lying pieces of crap who murdered their parents - who were themselves somewhat garbage parents, granted.

They're sociopaths, both of them. Lying convincingly for them is like breathing for the rest of us. It's what sociopaths do.

Their claims of abuse could not be corroborated, except by each other.

by Anonymousreply 2December 10, 2022 5:36 PM

[quote]I now believe them. New evidence has come out. The parents were monsters.

It's one thing for "new evidence" when it's evidence based on advances in science or technology, like DNA evidence or other concrete facts.

But, when it's people changing their minds or altering their previous statements, it's not new evidence.

by Anonymousreply 3December 10, 2022 5:39 PM

Erik Menendez on why he ate lemons.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 4December 10, 2022 5:40 PM

Never found them convincing. They're not good actors and they were certainly stupid for spending money on expensive watches, sports cars and tennis lesson so soon after their parents were murdered. And don't get me started on attorney Leslie Abram$on

by Anonymousreply 5December 10, 2022 5:51 PM

Nope.

by Anonymousreply 6December 10, 2022 5:51 PM

Pfft. I know fake tears when I see them.

by Anonymousreply 7December 10, 2022 5:54 PM

DL fave Billy Warlock gave a memorable performance.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 8December 10, 2022 5:58 PM

I believe Lyle and Erik took it up the butt...

and now in prison, they still do

by Anonymousreply 9December 10, 2022 6:05 PM

No tears.

by Anonymousreply 10December 10, 2022 6:20 PM

The trouble I've always found is that even if you do believe them, they still had no legal excuse for killing their mother in cold blood. And as for the father: you're not allowed legally to kill someone out of revenge.

So even if they were mistreated, they deserved their sentences.

by Anonymousreply 11December 10, 2022 6:24 PM

I do believe them

by Anonymousreply 12December 10, 2022 6:25 PM

OP how weird you copied your post text straight from the youtube comment

by Anonymousreply 13December 10, 2022 6:27 PM

I can believe that the father sexually molested them, esp. with Erik. Female cousin said that Lyle told her the dad was molesting him. Cousin told Kitty (mother of E & L), who reacted badly towards Lyle.

This kind of shit goes on behind closed doors more than you'd like to think.

They killed Kitty because she did nothing, she enabled it. She was cruel in her own way. Think about it. In your own life, you're more hurt by the failure to protect than by the perpetrator.

That said, the 2 brothers do come off as shallow and materialistic. But two things can exist. They were molested and they were shallow and materialistic.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14December 10, 2022 6:30 PM

Also, I always found it odd that Lyle was balding and wearing a wig during high school. He had eyebrows and eyelashes, so I don't think it was alopecia. It was more like middle-aged balding on a teen. I always thought maybe was stress-related.

by Anonymousreply 15December 10, 2022 6:34 PM

The real question is, OP, what's the deal with this Whitewater investigation?

by Anonymousreply 16December 10, 2022 6:41 PM

Nope.

by Anonymousreply 17December 10, 2022 7:09 PM

They were abused kids most likely but that does not remotely justify what they did. The two horrendous wrongs co-exist with murder being the worse of the two. There were other methods for them to escape their parents (father’s) abuse.

by Anonymousreply 18December 10, 2022 7:10 PM

Yup.

by Anonymousreply 19December 10, 2022 7:22 PM

Yes I believe them.

by Anonymousreply 20December 10, 2022 7:25 PM

No.

by Anonymousreply 21December 10, 2022 7:26 PM

Mouth Massage

by Anonymousreply 22December 10, 2022 7:30 PM

The brothers were lovers.

by Anonymousreply 23December 10, 2022 7:36 PM

I think they had an extremely ambitious and ruthless father who put pressure on them to succeed but they were never good enough. They wanted to continue the lifestyle to which they had become accustomed but that was in peril as they did not live up to parental expectations and couldn’t support that life in their own. The solution was a quick inheritance. It is an old, recurring story.

by Anonymousreply 24December 10, 2022 7:39 PM

[quote] They killed Kitty because she did nothing, she enabled it. She was cruel in her own way. Think about it. In your own life, you're more hurt by the failure to protect than by the perpetrator.

That is absolutely NOT a legal excuse for killing someone. That's killing her for revenge.

Stop making excuses for cold-blooded murderers.

by Anonymousreply 25December 10, 2022 8:37 PM

I believe.

by Anonymousreply 26December 10, 2022 8:44 PM

Molested? Maybe.

Pushed and ridiculed and punished, yet spoiled and coddled? Definitely.

by Anonymousreply 27December 10, 2022 9:54 PM

Of course I don't believe them. They shot their mother then walked out to their car to get more ammo, came back into the living room, reloaded the gun and gave her a kill shot. Then went on a spending spree with their inheritance until they were arrested.

by Anonymousreply 28December 10, 2022 9:59 PM

I posted a poll a month or two ago with the very same question.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 29December 10, 2022 11:35 PM

I found them hot, so I wanted to believe them. I'd have to see how they look now before reaffirming my support.

by Anonymousreply 30December 10, 2022 11:45 PM

Within 24 hours of Lyle Menendez’s arrest in March 1990, the TV tabloid program Hard Copy aired a story revealing that Erik Menendez was the co-author of a screenplay titled Friends about a young man who kills his parents and inherits $157 million.

The screenplay was frequently mentioned in media coverage about the case.

The script, however, was never admitted as evidence in either of the brothers’ trials.

In one of his few major rulings sympathetic to the defense, Judge Stanley Weisberg said jurors would not be told about the screenplay because it had been written by both Erik and his best friend, Craig Cignarelli.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 31December 10, 2022 11:55 PM

I believe that they are victims of emotional abuse by the father

But there are better way to deal with this - they could have just walked away. Just walk out the door and never come back

by Anonymousreply 32December 10, 2022 11:57 PM

Yes of course. Why would they lie?

by Anonymousreply 33December 10, 2022 11:58 PM

Both can be true. The father was an overbearing, verbally abusive asshole but the brothers were spoiled, greedy, entitled little sociopaths.

by Anonymousreply 34December 11, 2022 12:01 AM

They both had sex with each other on video.

by Anonymousreply 35December 11, 2022 12:07 AM

People who believe these two are brainwashed woke idiots who believe everyone is a victim, everything is someone else’s fault. They’re also the ones who are obsessed with pedophilia. The thought of everyone being a molestation victim and being the one to save them gets them off.

by Anonymousreply 36December 11, 2022 12:20 AM

The crowd who believes them are the ones who scream Believe All Victims! Bunch of dopes who are easy targets.

by Anonymousreply 37December 11, 2022 12:21 AM

R37- They do not even care about guilt or innocence. Faux virtual signaling is all they are concerned with.

by Anonymousreply 38December 11, 2022 12:23 AM

No, I don't believe them. They're psychopaths. Looking a them during their trial, smirking and wearing their Armani suits, was bopne chilling. Dominick Dunne wrote a good article about them in Vanity Fair that exposed them for the scum that they are.

by Anonymousreply 39December 11, 2022 12:29 AM

Favorite detail about them: in the months after the parents were murdered but before the boys were arrested), the one who was at Princeton (Erik?) bought a buffalo wings take-out restaurant in the town of Princeton, NJ that he intended to turn into a nationwide franchise. After they were arrested, many Princeton students started referring to the restaurant as "Mom and Pop's."

by Anonymousreply 40December 11, 2022 12:33 AM

They are cold blooded psychopaths. That psychiatrist recording his of his session with them is all of the proof one needs to realize that.

by Anonymousreply 41December 11, 2022 12:36 AM

Have any of you ever seen the crime scene video? Creepy as hell and it is brutal.

by Anonymousreply 42December 11, 2022 12:43 AM

I totally belive them about the abuse. But I do think the killings were revenge rather than self defence.

On an ethical level I'm ok with that. Good for them.

by Anonymousreply 43December 11, 2022 12:51 AM

A panel of body language experts have some really great insights here.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 44December 11, 2022 12:55 AM

R43- They are sociopathic liars. They were caught robbing their friends houses when they were in their teens. They didn't need money they just enjoyed breaking the law because have a criminal mind set. They asked for and read books about childhood sexual abuse before the trial so they would know what to say and how to act.

by Anonymousreply 45December 11, 2022 12:57 AM

R4- He look part Coyote to me.

He always seemed rather gay to me as well.

by Anonymousreply 46December 11, 2022 1:00 AM

It would have been fun to do the strip search back in 1989 on Kyle.

by Anonymousreply 47December 11, 2022 1:02 AM

R46- I believe he is too. He was caught giving a bj to another inmate in jail before the trial. But that isn't why I think he is gay.

by Anonymousreply 48December 11, 2022 1:04 AM

[quote] I totally belive them about the abuse. But I do think the killings were revenge rather than self defence.

THe murders were committed for that oldest of motives: money. This if from Dominick Dunne's VF article.:

Inadvertently, the boys brought suspicion upon themselves. In the aftermath of the terrible event, close observers noted the extraordinary calm the boys exhibited, almost as if the murders had happened to another family. They were seen renting furniture at Antiquarian Traders to replace the furniture that had been replaced from the television room. And, as new heirs, they embarked on a spending spree that even the merriest widow, who had married for money, would have refrained from going on—for propriety’s sake, if nothing else—in the first flush of her mourning period. They bought and bought and bought. Estimates of their spending have gone as high as $700,000. Lyle bought a $60,000 Porsche 911 Carrera to replace the Alfa Ramero his father had given him. Erik turned in his Ford Mustang 5.0 hardtop and bought a tan Jeep Wrangler, which his girlfriend, Noelle Terelsky, is now driving. Lyle bought $40,000 worth of clothes and a $15,000 Rolex watch. Erik hired a $50,000-a-year tennis coach. Lyle decided to go into the restaurant business, and paid a reported $550,000 for a cafeteria-style eatery in Princeton which he renamed Mr. Buffalo’s, flying back and forth coast to coast on MGM Grand Air. “It was one of my mother’s delights that I pursue a small restaurant chain and serve healthy food with friendly service,” he said in an interview with The Daily Princetonian, the campus newspaper. Erik, less successful as an entrepreneur than Lyle, put up $40,000 for a rock concert at the Palladium, but got ripped off by a con-man partner and lost the entire amount. Erik decided not to attend U.C.L.A., which had been his father’s plan for him, but to pursue a career in tennis instead. After moving from hotel to hotel to elude the Mafia, who they claimed were watching them, the brothers leased adjoining condos in the tony Marina City Club Towers. “They liked high-tech surroundings, and they wanted to get out of the house,” one of their friends said to me. Then there was the ghoulish sense of humor another of their friends spoke about: sitting with a gang of pals one night, deciding what videos to rent for the evening, Erik suggested "Dad" and "Parenthood." Even as close a friend as Glenn Stevens, who was in the car with Lyle when he was arrested, later told the Los Angeles Times that two days after the murders, when he asked Lyle how he was holding up emotionally, his friend replied, “I’ve been waiting so long to be in this position that the transition came easily.”

by Anonymousreply 49December 11, 2022 1:33 AM

R49- Dominick Dunn's coverage of the case for Vanity Fair was excellent. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this case. Fascinating and very in depth coverage of the trial. He also hated the defense attorney , as did we all. Horrible woman.

by Anonymousreply 50December 11, 2022 1:42 AM

The Law & Order SVU went very, very easy on Leslie Abramson painting her as a sympathetic maternal figure. It Rana little parallel side story about she and her husband adopting a baby.

by Anonymousreply 51December 16, 2022 6:37 AM

There used to be several pictures of Erik "modeling" underwear ..... but both brothers seemed gay to me.

by Anonymousreply 52December 16, 2022 6:53 AM

[R14] Hit the nail on the head. I think their dad was abusing them and the mother stood by, but that abuse create two shallow narcissists. On the one hand, you could say the parents deserved it for how they failed as parents; on the other hand, it's probably for the best that the brothers were not allowed to run around in society, not because they would necessarily kill again, but because without empathy, they are capable of great harm to others in non-lethal ways.

by Anonymousreply 53December 16, 2022 7:04 AM

I don't believe them about the abuse either.

And that isn't a good reason to kill either - 10000s of people are molested but don't kill the molester. That's stooping to their level. Both men were adults. Everyone knows that you report it to the cops or even if you can't do that or think you won't be believed, you at least walk away, go get a job and a life elsewhere.

by Anonymousreply 54December 16, 2022 7:10 AM

People who believe their claims are also convinced Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

by Anonymousreply 55December 16, 2022 7:14 AM

I never heard about Erik eating so much lemon for that reason, but he also testified that he would often add cinnamon to his Dad's coffee to make Dad's seamen taste better. All these helpful tips for your cum-swallowing whores.

by Anonymousreply 56December 16, 2022 7:23 AM

I believe the brothers.

Jose went on tour with Menudo to at least Brazil if not other countries. Their manager Edgardo Diaz pretty much pimped the boys out to his friends, lawyers, and other members of management.

Here’s a pic of them at the 1984 concert in Brazil.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 57December 16, 2022 7:31 AM

I am so curious how people who think they were unfairly punished think they could mount a legal defense for the sons for killing their mother. Even if she did allow the abuse to happen, how could killing her in cold blood for that reason be even remotely legal? You cannot kill people out of revenge for perceived negligence. That's not a legal defense.

But you'll never, ever, ever hear the Menendez defenders address that. They will always change the subject when you bring that up.

by Anonymousreply 58December 16, 2022 7:38 AM

The SNL skit with John Malkovich and Rob Schneider as the Menendez brothers (and their other unknown lookalike brothers!) was hilarious, especially when they cried.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 59December 16, 2022 7:47 AM

They were the worst fakers at crying in court imaginable.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 60December 16, 2022 7:58 AM

After I watched that mini-series with Edie Falco I started to believe they were molested like they said.

by Anonymousreply 61December 16, 2022 8:24 AM

They cried on the stand while facing life in jail. It’s easy to cry when you’re feeling sorry for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 62December 16, 2022 8:32 AM

R58 Nor is it a legal defense for the extrajudicial killing of the father for what he did. In addition I think that Wyoming is the only state that allows the death penalty for sexual abuse of a minor (I wonder how many people actually get that penalty too).

by Anonymousreply 63December 16, 2022 8:35 AM

Believe the Menendez killers?

Fuck no. How gullible are you people?

by Anonymousreply 64December 16, 2022 8:52 AM

No I never believed them at all. R57, that photo don't prove anything except that they were in Brazil. They are fucking coldblooded murderers.

by Anonymousreply 65December 16, 2022 10:43 AM

I have no sympathy for the parents.

by Anonymousreply 66December 16, 2022 11:50 AM

Yes, I believ...well no...maybe?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 67December 16, 2022 12:08 PM

R57, why is Ron DeSantis in that picture?

Is he a molester, too?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 68December 16, 2022 12:12 PM

[quote]Have any of you ever seen the crime scene video? Creepy as hell and it is brutal.

If it's particularly brutal it suggests the murders were about more than money, then. There are psychopaths who like to torture, but a psychopath who wants to get someone out of the way for their money would do it as efficiently as possible, because they're not swayed by emotion. If the Menendezes were people who liked to torture you'd be hearing about their further exploits in prison. To be killing only people you know, and yet making it especially brutal, means you're motivated by rage.

by Anonymousreply 69December 16, 2022 2:06 PM

R69 Of course they disliked their parents because their parents were withdrawing money from them. You think it's about sexual abuse but I think it's way more about money and their anger/resentment that money was being kept from them. Their ridiculous spending spree after the deaths certainly shows that they had no respect for money.

by Anonymousreply 70December 16, 2022 2:10 PM

I don't know it they were molested ( I dont think so) but the parents were massive assholes.. How the fuck do you get both of your children to hate you that much? What it comes down to is that molestation accusations have more power than other types of abuse in American society ( even if the results on the psyche are just as bad). Just look at how no one gives a shit about how badly the other farrow/ Allen children besides Dylan were allegedly treated. The brothers are sociopaths though , to state the obvious.

by Anonymousreply 71December 16, 2022 2:27 PM

R71 There are lots and lots of people who hate their parents and what they did. I'm one of them. But almost all of us aren't psychopaths like those two. There was no reason the brothers couldn't get away from them and make a life away from them. Money is superficial - you can be poor and happier.

by Anonymousreply 72December 16, 2022 2:32 PM

Was it true that Menendez was so widely despised that the cops had a huge list of suspects?

by Anonymousreply 73December 16, 2022 2:32 PM

R72 Oh I agree. I'm just saying that it was a mix of nature/ nurture. Horrid parenting, highly type A ambitious but ice cold parents ( I spent my adolescence in an area where these people are common and I know the type). And of course a biological/ chemical predisposition to sociopathy ( likely inherited from dear old dad).

by Anonymousreply 74December 16, 2022 2:36 PM

To be fair, R72, that's what they say about women who stay with or return to domestic violence perps too. The fact is that some forms of abuse (and they don't have to be sexual) do such a number on you that you can't work out how to just walk away. Erik seemed to be stuck in that loop and Lyle wasn't prepared to walk away and leave him to be a victim: if what they alleged was true that would have been replicating their mother's behaviour.

I'm not arguing they're not murderous psychopaths, but that wasn't OP's question.

by Anonymousreply 75December 16, 2022 2:36 PM

R75 Big difference in that those women don't kill their 'abusers'. They are real victims. The Menendez brothers were fake victims.

by Anonymousreply 76December 16, 2022 2:38 PM

R74 I totally agree. I think it's a mix of those two things. You need this genetic predisposition to psychopathy/sociopathy but whether you become a monster because of it or not depends on how you were nurtured. Robert Hare who is an expert on psychopathy talks about this.

by Anonymousreply 77December 16, 2022 2:40 PM

R73. I don't know if they had a list per se but everything I read about him suggests he was an asshole. He at the very least mentally abused them.

by Anonymousreply 78December 16, 2022 3:56 PM

Did Daddy Menendez make them wear shortie pink baby doll nighties

while he mocked their puny cocklets...

"Memories, light the corners of my mind...."

by Anonymousreply 79December 16, 2022 4:00 PM

I don't know much about it but remember watching some of their testimony and the acting was bad. I do not believe 2 grown men were in fear of their lives, I believe this is what they claimed?

by Anonymousreply 80December 16, 2022 4:03 PM

[quote]Also, I always found it odd that Lyle was balding and wearing a wig during high school. He had eyebrows and eyelashes, so I don't think it was alopecia. It was more like middle-aged balding on a teen.

An acquaintance in high school had the exact same thing (sans wig, though). I remember being stunned that a high schooler had male pattern baldness.

by Anonymousreply 81December 16, 2022 4:31 PM

[quote] about she and her husband

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 82December 16, 2022 4:32 PM

[quote]They both had sex with each other on video.

Say what?!

by Anonymousreply 83December 16, 2022 4:33 PM

Oh for fuck's sake. Half the world has an asshole for a father and a mother who ignores it - so what? If that's justification for cold-blooded murder it's news to me.

They weren't "abused" they just didn't like their father so they killed both parents for the money. The losers crying for Lyle and Eric are just dumb - really really dumb.

by Anonymousreply 84December 17, 2022 12:22 AM

[quote]They both had sex with each other on video.

BOTH of them?!?? Oh my god.

by Anonymousreply 85December 17, 2022 1:12 AM

R84, who hurt you? Besides your parents, obviously.

You don't have kids, do you?

Do you?

by Anonymousreply 86December 17, 2022 1:13 AM

The 911 call one of them made was hiliarous. The acting was SO bad. It was like a skit from SNL.

by Anonymousreply 87December 17, 2022 1:15 AM

OP's question was whether we believed the father (Jose) sexually molested both brothers. Not whether the 2 brothers were justified in killing the father and mother.

You can believe that yes, Jose molested them. At the same time, you can believe that killing Mom and Dad was going too far.

Would be interesting if Lyle and Erik were two sisters. Would people be more sympathetic towards them?

by Anonymousreply 88December 17, 2022 1:21 AM

No. Two sisters who killed the mother out of vengeance for "knowing but not getting involved" would also not have been sympathetic to a jury.

by Anonymousreply 89December 17, 2022 1:23 AM

Yes, of course I have children. That's no excuse for the cold blooded, premeditated murder of Kitty and Jose Menendez. What kind of fucked up "Anything can be excused if they make up the right story" world do you live in, R86?

How many murders that two grown adults cooked up and wrote a movie script for are you prepared to "overlook" because they tell you some fucked up invented story of "sexual abuse"? Are ALL stories of sexual abuse true? What about the ones that aren't? What about the ones people invent to get out from under murder charges?

A lot of people have shitty parents or less than optimum parents. So what? They grow up, they move out, they get therapy, they have lives. That's what abused people actually do. They don't plot the murder of their parents. That is insane, not to mention criminal.

The question is actually who hurt YOU? Why have you never moved on with your life? Do you blame your shitty parents for all of your own failures? Are you planning on killing them for the money or just using them as the excuse for all of your own failures?

Don't bother answering, dear, I don't really care and it's so cliche'd that I can fill in all the answers anyway. The Menendez brothers murdered their unpleasant but not abusive parents and they will rot in jail for it for the rest of their lives. They are never getting out and rightly so. End of.

by Anonymousreply 90December 17, 2022 1:27 AM

[quote]You can believe that yes, Jose molested them. At the same time, you can believe that killing Mom and Dad was going too far.

Further, you can believe all of the above and still feel that justice wasn't served when they were convicted of murder and put away for life. The justice system also went too far. They were psychologically warped from years of abuse. They should have been convicted of manslaughter and released by now. They are not a threat to anyone.

by Anonymousreply 91December 17, 2022 1:59 AM

r86, I would agree you come off as the real cunt here, not r84.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

by Anonymousreply 92December 17, 2022 2:15 AM

I’m with r84.

I’ve known a lot of rich kids. More is never enough.

by Anonymousreply 93December 17, 2022 3:43 AM

[quote]Dominick Dunne wrote a good article about them in Vanity Fair that exposed them for the scum that they are.

Thanks for the recommendation, bookmarked and will read it this weekend.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 94December 17, 2022 4:08 AM

They wore pastel sweaters on the stand-------GUILTY!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 95December 17, 2022 7:06 AM

Not hot, not fuckable, not even entertaining, nothing.

GUILTY.

by Anonymousreply 96December 17, 2022 8:03 AM

I thought Eric was hawt. Therefore unlikely to be guilty. Or rather justified homicide.

by Anonymousreply 97December 17, 2022 8:28 AM

Recollections may fucking vary, r97.

by Anonymousreply 98December 17, 2022 8:35 AM

Their was some prominent tv journalist who believed them but I am blanking on the guys name. He had sandy brown hair. I think his name started with a T.

by Anonymousreply 99December 17, 2022 3:35 PM

R76 Women kill their abusers all the time.

It used to be the one of the few things they COULD do to get away from abusive husbands considering divorce was heavily stigmatized or impossible to get, there was a lack of resources and shelter available, and they straight up had no money to leave. The last two points still make it difficult for women to leave today while it’s not as prevalent as it used to be in the 70s and before then, it still happens.

by Anonymousreply 100December 18, 2022 2:42 AM

[quote] The Law & Order SVU went very, very easy on Leslie Abramson painting her as a sympathetic maternal figure.

I'm not buying the maternal thing but she was a great attorney. A really great attorney.

by Anonymousreply 101December 18, 2022 3:06 AM

They should never have received life in prison without parole, especially Erik, 20 or 30 years would have been more than enough. Erik should have been allowed parole. He was a little cutie back then, such a travesty of justice.

by Anonymousreply 102December 18, 2022 3:44 AM

[quote] I'm not buying the maternal thing but she was a great attorney. A really great attorney.

Then why didn't she mount a better defense of them?

As everyone keeps pointing out, the defense she mustered (i.e. that the boys were molested) could not possibly have saved them since it was not legally exculpatory.

by Anonymousreply 103December 18, 2022 3:50 AM

Molested as children is one thing, but we're seriously supposed to believe that Erik was still being molested at 19 years of age? Sure, Jan.

by Anonymousreply 104December 18, 2022 4:43 AM

[quote] Then why didn't she mount a better defense of them?

She did a very good defense of them. Despite the overwhelming evidence against them and the fact they are so obviously guilty she got a hung jury in the first trial. They had 2 separate juries in the first trial. Leslie represented Erik and Jill Lansing represented Lyle. They were arguing for manslaughter so they did admit they shot them.

For the second trial Lyle's attorney withdrew - she had a very young daughter and the first trial took a lot of time away. I cannot find who replaced her - whether there was a new attorney for Lyle or Leslie took over both defendants which I would find odd but could be. But damn if no article I can find will tell me. Leslie's 2d chair from the first trial withdrew and was replaced by Barry Levin a former Vietnam vet and police detective. He was also very good and did a lot of the examinations and the closing argument. He later defended Robert Blake. Sad note - after a decade of a progressively debilitating disease Levin shot himself in the head in a veteran's cemetery. That's just another stat for the women attempt suicide more often but men succeed more often - because they use guns.

In the second trial Lyle did not testify so there was evidence as well as witnesses that could not be admitted regarding his state of mind to justify manslaughter.

Lawyers are stuck with the facts they have and what their clients are telling them. If that is what they both told their lawyers then that's what the lawyer needs to argue. It's not like they were claiming they were made to do it by Martians. It was a plausible defense and when your client gives you a plausible defense you develop it and use it.

But no I didn't believe anything they said. LOL! They were the worst liars.

by Anonymousreply 105December 18, 2022 5:54 AM

Hot people are always innocent. Bonus innocence points if a big cock is attached to it.

I'll have to check them out again to make my final judgment.

by Anonymousreply 106December 18, 2022 6:30 AM

I have never really much for Lyle, he was probably the instigator of the whole thing, but poor Erik, I have always felt sorry for him.

by Anonymousreply 107December 18, 2022 10:59 PM

[quote] Hot people are always innocent. Bonus innocence points if a big cock is attached to it.

Neither of the Menendez brothers is "hot" and I doubt either of them have a big cock.

by Anonymousreply 108December 20, 2022 3:58 AM

The brothers spent over $700K in the weeks following the murders, buying all sorts of extravagant things. If they hadn't done that, maybe we could begin to take their claims seriously, or at least hear them out. They're crazy.

by Anonymousreply 109December 20, 2022 7:13 AM

With so many years available to them to reflect, r109, do you think they have ever experienced buyer remorse? Spent too much? Spent too little?

by Anonymousreply 110December 20, 2022 9:38 AM

No, R110, they're fine. They long ago rationalized it in their minds. Sociopaths don't think like normal people.

by Anonymousreply 111December 20, 2022 9:47 PM

Oh, sounds like a great project for Ryan Murphy.

by Anonymousreply 112December 20, 2022 10:05 PM

Do I believe their testimony…

Sure. They’re cute enough.

by Anonymousreply 113December 20, 2022 10:09 PM

[Quote] They both had sex with each other on video.

Perhaps the father found out about their relationship

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 114December 20, 2022 11:13 PM

How could Erik not know Lyle wore a wig?

by Anonymousreply 115December 20, 2022 11:28 PM

What flavor ice cream were the parents eating when shot?

by Anonymousreply 116December 20, 2022 11:29 PM

R99, Ted Wayland?

by Anonymousreply 117December 20, 2022 11:31 PM

[Quote] What flavor ice cream were the parents eating when shot?

Rocky Road

by Anonymousreply 118December 20, 2022 11:37 PM

R118, Not Cherry Vanilla?

by Anonymousreply 119December 20, 2022 11:56 PM

What must their mother have thought when they were shooting her and then reloaded and came back to finish her off?

That is someone who would kill their own child if they felt it helped them.

by Anonymousreply 120December 21, 2022 12:57 AM

Erik should be out of prison living his life, 30 years would have been more than enough time served.

by Anonymousreply 121December 21, 2022 5:39 AM

R94 Thank you for posting that link, a very interesting read.

by Anonymousreply 122December 21, 2022 2:21 PM

'unlike the families of most homicide victims, the sons of Jose and Kitty Menendez did not have the obsessive interest in the police search for the killers of their parents that usually supersedes all else in the wake of such a tragedy' -Dominick Dunne

by Anonymousreply 123December 21, 2022 11:22 PM

I believe the hot one.

by Anonymousreply 124December 22, 2022 11:20 AM

Which one is hot?

by Anonymousreply 125December 23, 2022 4:49 PM

R125 The other one

by Anonymousreply 126December 23, 2022 4:54 PM

[quote] [R76] Women kill their abusers all the time.

They don't always get off for doing it.

And when they do, it's almost always because the women could not get out of the house otherwise. One of the brothers was already away at college, and there was nothing keeping the other brother (who was of legal age) necessarily at home.

Moreover, even in those cases, women do not get away with shooting someone else whom they claim enabled the abuse.

by Anonymousreply 127December 23, 2022 5:01 PM

R125, Erik.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 128December 23, 2022 9:54 PM

Yes, Erik was hot, but even if he wasn't, he should not have received life in prison without parole, 20 or now 30 years are more than enough!

by Anonymousreply 129December 24, 2022 12:37 AM

What did people who knew Kitty say about her?

by Anonymousreply 130December 24, 2022 1:03 AM

They say, “she’s dead”.

by Anonymousreply 131December 24, 2022 4:37 AM

Yes. I do believe they were abused in some way or another, or in various ways.

Children rarely murder a parent, much less both parents. Even rarer is a situation where two siblings murder both parents.

The customary and usual scenario is that a parent or both parents murder their child or even children.

So yes, I believe their motive was that they felt justified in their heinous acts, due to both parents being profoundly abusive to them both.

Absolutely does NOT justify what they did, but I believe it to be an authentic story and hence, motive.

by Anonymousreply 132December 24, 2022 5:21 AM

No, I don’t believe them at all.

They were spoiled, entitled brats.

They wanted the money without working for it.

by Anonymousreply 133December 24, 2022 6:20 PM

I just finished Robert Rand's book on the murders, but he's so biased toward Erik and Lyle that I don't trust all his interpretations.

It's clear Jose Menendez was controlling and abusive, and his wife was an enabler. That said, the boys were both adults who could have walked away at that point. Even if you say they had battered children's syndrome, this was not a spur-of-the-moment slaying. They bought the shotguns ahead of time, stopped to pick up the shells off the floor after the slayings, and even came back for a second, final kill shot at Kitty. They then did their best to cover up their involvement and went on a big spending spree with the inherited cash.

My best guess is that they hated their parents for the control and abuse, wanted freedom and money, and killed them to get it. They weren't ruthless or worldly enough to handle what they had done, though they planned the murder pretty well. Had Erik not spilled his guts to that sleazy shrink Orziel, they might have gotten away with it.

by Anonymousreply 134December 24, 2022 7:21 PM

I think money was a factor, but more for what it symbolized--freedom from Jose's control--than as a main motive for the murder. Though he was a bastard, Jose Menendez gave his sons credit cards and they spent what they wanted. Their material lifestyles didn't change that much after the murders.

by Anonymousreply 135December 24, 2022 7:22 PM

Death By Chocolate

by Anonymousreply 136December 25, 2022 10:33 AM

They were robbing the homes or their friends when they were teens even though they did not need money. Sociopaths.

by Anonymousreply 137January 22, 2023 3:44 PM

Still pretty hot. I'd say DILFs but they don't have kids.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 138January 22, 2023 3:57 PM

you know we say they were probably abused or whatever and yet should not have done what they did, but they were very young, and they probably reacted emotionally.

by Anonymousreply 139January 22, 2023 4:05 PM

It's safer not to, so no.

by Anonymousreply 140January 22, 2023 5:08 PM

R139- I do not believe that for one second. Was their father demanding? Yes. But these grown men had the resources to just move out at that point. They were not " little boys" they were adult men. They were greedy little murderous sociopaths, not victims.

by Anonymousreply 141January 22, 2023 5:20 PM

No one believed their sob story 30 years ago and no one believes it today. Greedy lil sociopaths.

by Anonymousreply 142January 22, 2023 5:33 PM

Ugh, Lesley Abramson! She was a Mafia whore as well. She loved the sleezy, greasy mafia thugs. Such a nasty whore.

by Anonymousreply 143January 22, 2023 6:16 PM

They should send that cute Hatchet Hitchhiker maniac to be the prison bitch for the Menendez brothers. He had an excellent body and when he was all cleaned up he looked good. Sure he's not a chick but the Menendez brothers have needs.

by Anonymousreply 144January 22, 2023 6:21 PM

R144- The youngest one is gay, I guarantee you . He has been caught having sex with another inmate, allegedly. Could we possibly read his prison records?

by Anonymousreply 145January 22, 2023 6:47 PM

I, in no way, condone what these brothers did.

But please allow me to remind all of you, that there genuinely are, some REALLY SHITTY parents out there. ESPECIALLY parents from the generation of which these two parents, hailed.

In my opinion, one of the two boys was the ring leader, who convinced their sibling that murdering their two parents, was the best road to easy street.

But here’s the thing that is VERY difficult for teens and young adults, to wholeheartedly understand:

If you grew up with shitty parents? Get the fuck away from them as soon as legally possible. Don’t kill them, because it’s not the solution, but do everything to get the fuck away from them forever.

Fucked up parents NEVER change. They’re fucked up, and did everything possible to fuck you up as well.

There’s ZERO resolution when this happens. There’s ZERO justice or reconciliation. Trust me, I know.

I recently had to accept the truth about my mom.

I was raised by a really HORRIBLE human being, who does NOTHING but attract other HORRIBLE people, into her life, and she is just fine with this.

That’s NOT my burden, though she really attempted to make me responsible for her fuck ups, from the time I was a small child, until present time.

My mom is a toxic, HORRIBLE woman, who attracts nothing but HORRIBLE and toxic people into her life.

Unfortunately, I was born from her, & there’s absolutely nothing I can do to change this, but man. Lemme tell you, attempting to re-define some sort of relationship with her as an adult, was a HUGE mistake.

My mother is a very emotionally sick woman. Those who she draws near to her, & who stick around, are as emotionally damaged as she is.

I don’t want to be a part of that club. I find it best, to stay away.

Due to trauma bonding, I am still prone to loving my mother, but I intellectually understand that my mother is a genuine SHITTY parent, & I’m SOOO fucking grateful I got away from her and her co-conspirators, enablers.

Killing shitty parents is not the answer. If you’re in this situation, just GTFO as soon as possible, & NEVER look back.

by Anonymousreply 146January 22, 2023 11:18 PM

Of course. My father also sodomized me with a toothbrush.

by Anonymousreply 147January 22, 2023 11:21 PM

R146 How far did you move and do you ever have any contact with her?

by Anonymousreply 148January 22, 2023 11:24 PM

[R146] Do people who don’t know her that well think she’s charming and sweet? My mother is similar, she’s always with some gross man, but somehow comes out smelling like a rose. It messed me up as a child because I knew the reality, but everyone was always saying how lucky I was to have such a “cool” mom.

by Anonymousreply 149January 22, 2023 11:42 PM

Here's what we know for a fact:

1) The boys were subjected to years of ongoing sexual and physical abuse--from their father. 2) Their mother knew and looked the other way. Not clear if she was a participant. 3) The father, Jose, was sexually abused for years by his own mother. 4) The father had threatened to murder them several times if they told anyone. 5) For the 2nd trial, the judge was under extreme political pressure and made rulings against the defense accordingly.

At the time, prosecutors suggested the abuse was all lies to cover up financial motivation for the killings. We know that is false.

What part was revenge, financially motivated, fear of their lives, or what was in their heads a the time of the killings is what is up for debate.

The Law and Order miniseries with Edie Falco a few years ago clarified a lot of this based on what we know now and separated a lot of fact from speculation. The news coverage at the time was pre-internet and treated the abuse like it was up for debate--or just a hail mary defense tactic.

For anyone who doesn't remember the case, the way it looked in the news is that these guys were murderous brats who claimed they did it because they were sexually abused and in fear for their lives. By the time of the trial, they looked like grown men who viciously murdered their parents for money. The reality was a lot more complicated. The first jury was a hung jury. The second trial, where they were found guilty, was a miscarriage of justice.

by Anonymousreply 150January 23, 2023 2:20 AM

For anyone who doesn't remember the case, the way it looked in the news is that these guys were murderous brats who claimed they did it because they were sexually abused and in fear for their lives. By the time of the trial, they looked like grown men who viciously murdered their parents for money.

Because they did.

by Anonymousreply 151January 23, 2023 2:22 AM

I do believe that they were molested, but many people are and still don't go on murdering sprees followed by shopping sprees

by Anonymousreply 152January 23, 2023 2:24 AM

R152 I disagree about the sexual abuse but their total lack of remorse and the savageness of the crime proved that they were remorseless killers.

by Anonymousreply 153January 23, 2023 2:27 AM

A hundred years earlier, Lizzie and Emma Borden killed their father and stepmother, for the inheritance they were about to lose. Same story, different gender.

by Anonymousreply 154January 23, 2023 2:35 AM

R150 is full of shit. What he presents as facts are his personal suppositions. The bottom line is that they were grown men and could have left home at any time. Eric was a student at UCLA and had he gone to the administration and told them he was the subject of abuse they would have bent over backwards to help him.

by Anonymousreply 155January 23, 2023 2:44 AM

The brothers had a cute, male cousin (Andres Cano, now deceased, I think) who testified. Cano said that Erik told him about dad Jose molesting Erik.

It's been a while since I watched this video, but I think that's what Cano said. At one point, Cano winks at Erik. Sorry, can't give you the minute mark.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 156January 23, 2023 2:48 AM

R155 - No personal suppositions. Just moving the conversation to the arena regarding what is currently unknown and open for debate, for people like yourself who are confused and need the help. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance to you.

by Anonymousreply 157January 23, 2023 4:28 AM

They weren’t molested. Jesus Christ. A sucker is born every minute.

by Anonymousreply 158January 23, 2023 4:57 AM

R157 No one made you the Lord of Debate. You are a sad little murder apologist. Even if they were raped daily they had no excuse to murder their parents execution style. This was no heat of the moment crime. They stopped half way through to go out to lyles car and reload. They finished off their murders by putting the shotgun to the side of their mothers face and blowing their head off. They deserved the death penalty.

by Anonymousreply 159January 23, 2023 7:11 AM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!