The White Lotus, Season 2 (thread 5)

Link to last thread (thread 4).

I want Ethan to hatefuck Cameron in the last episode.

What I miss from last season is how all the different characters interacted and overlapped. This one seems to contain only isolated storylines, except for the whores fucking everybody.

If Albie gets a little more street smart but stays kind, he would be about perfect.

Poor grandpa, they need to throw him a bone like Mia did for Valentina. Of course I don't think Mia just did that because she is nice, now she can hold something over Valentina to get the piano job.

The characters interacted briefly. Most of them were separate. And they only interacted more because of Covid so they could only be around one another r3.

Now that isn’t an issue. This season was far more believable.

Well, that's pretty much enough, r3. The whores have at this point slept with the following:

LUCIA: Dominic, Cameron, Albie

MIA: Dominic, Giuseppe the piano player, Valentina

JACK: Portia, Quentin

NICCOLO: Tanya

I think Mia did it as a thank you to Valentina for letting her play. She isn’t trying to harm Valentina. Not everyone is low and classless r4.

Grandpa is old. He isn’t looking to hook up. He realizes his time for true love has past.

Jesus. You don’t get anything huh?

I laughed when Cameron said he didn't need to read the menu because he knew it by now. I saw an article (maybe it was posted here) that asked why the main characters always eat at the hotel.

I've really loved tonight's and last week's episodes. The slow beginning was worth it for the build we're now seeing, and by now I'm truly invested in all the characters, I care about them all, even bitchy Harper.

But I think HBO should have made this a 2 episode finale. I didn't want tonight's episode to end.

Yes, the prostitutes have interacted with almost everyone at this point.

When people vacation they don’t stay interacting with strangers.

We will see if you are right r7. Are the person on these threads who keeps getting upset and telling people they are not smart enough to watch the show? You need to take a chill pill, it's just a tv program.

Aubrey Plaza has a great body.

Why wouldn’t have Tanya seen a Monica Vitti movie?

Tanya is on the latter side of middle-aged and it’s not like L'Avventura is obscure.

So it looks like Theo James is playing the least interesting character.

R8 because it’s a White Lotus aka Four Seasons. Most people who stay at those resorts eat at those resorts.

Someone just did a live where he said he prefers to stay at regular hotels and not resorts because when you’re at a nice resort you have zero reason to ever leave it.

I thought it was interesting last episode when one of the girls pointed out to Valentina that as long as there have been hotels there have been prostitutes who go to them. That's what we've been pretty much been seeing this season, although jack has done most of his whoring at Quentin's villa.

R11 the Grandpa literally says something that suggests his time for love is never happening now. It was a moment of realization. It had nothing to do with sex. The fact you didn’t understand something so blatant… maybe stop watching.

I say YOU are not smart because YOU are not smart. It’s no one else. Everyone else seems to understand fine. It’s always you.

r17 that is the first time you have commented on one of my posts. So I am not the problem, you are for taking this too seriously.

R18 you think the previous threads don’t exist anymore?

r7/r17 is the same psycho troll who keeps coming onto these White Lotus threads and screaming that no one except him is smart enough to watch this show and comment on it.

I recommend putting him on Ignore and F&F. Do not feed the trolls.

Harper is having so much fun playing mind games with Ethan. Don't think anything happened but she clearly wants him to think it did. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

r19 this is the last time I am going to interact with you. I have read you scolding other posters on the other threads, I have read them all. What I am saying in all the threads this is the first time you scolded me. And r20 is not me before you screech again.

Ugh. I'm kind of disappointed the prediction that Greg is setting up Tanya seems to be coming true. It feels kind of lazy for a show like this. Looking forward to the finale, though, and finding out who dies.

Meanwhile, it is kind of weird and unrealistic the characters would always eat dinner at the hotel and not at a nearby restaurant.

No. I say it to YOU and your sock accounts. Because you aren’t smart. All you do is embarrass yourself.

That schizo thread was the final straw for me.

[quote] That schizo thread was the final straw for me.

If only!

R23 actually it’s unrealistic they would leave their 5 star restaurant inside their resort and eat elsewhere. You’ve clearly never stayed at a Top of the line all inclusive resort.

Maybe they all quickly discovered that the resort serves the best dinners.

r24 needs to be reported to be F&F or Muriel needs to red tag him because he is disturbed.

Maybe they all quickly discovered that the resort serves the best dinners.

Yes hunty

There are people who go to Four Seasons restaurants just to eat dinner. They aren’t guests there. They just eat dinner there. They’re 5 star restaurants.

The White Lotus is a fictionalized Four Seasons.

R28 no. Who needs to be reported is you for lying and making a mockery of mental illness, for lying on here all day every day, for using a ridiculous amount of socks to WW himself and keep replying to himself. Etc. and I have the proof to back it up. That schizophrenia lie was disgusting.

I'm pretty sure we were shown Chekhov's gun this episode...

Is Lucia playing Albie?

Tanya and Greg went to a restaurant outside the hotel in an early episode, and saw Portia in there eating by herself.

I think the fact they eat dinner at the White Lotus is rather the point. These privileged people travel so far to "experience another country" in theory, but how much experiencing it are they actually doing. Just hanging out in their manicured luxury experience.

Will you STFU? Rich people do actually leave hotels to go to other restaurants.

We also saw Dominic and co eat elsewhere.

They are the ones who have been leaving the resort the most.

It makes sense the two younger couples are staying within the resort. And that does ring true.

Like I said, that person clearly never experienced a 5 star all inclusive resort. And that’s fine. But don’t comment on what you don’t know.

^ Karen Cunt

[quote] Tanya and Greg went to a restaurant outside the hotel in an early episode, and saw Portia in there eating by herself.

Tonya saw her eating by herself in the hotel.

When they went to the restaurant in town in the second episode, Tanya saw her eating there will Albie.

Both times Greg did not see her.

They’re also in Sicily. The heat there is terrible and a lot of the locals aren’t friendly to tourists. Northern Italy is easier to go out and about. Sicily is a lot of long drives.

Which reminds me of the premiere episode when someone tells Mia she looks like she is from Northern Italy because she has fair skin and lighter features. Sicilians are olive skinned to brown.

The hotel restaurant is air-conditioned, a rarity in Sicily.

A rarity in all of Italy, honestly r42 lol.

A side note: How much did a certain actor’s agent or PR team pay Mike White to throw in Timothee Chalamet’s name in a random conversation on this episode? It seemed rather odd, no?

Maybe he’ll be in S3.

[...]

Why would Timmy be in season 3 if he exists in this universe as Timmy, a movie star? Clearly he now can’t play someone else.

Greg is gay but marries rich women to take their money.

If you’ve ever stayed at a Four Seasons property, you know that it’s a luxury to eat at the hotel restaurant.

both the vikings and normans conquered siciily in the middle ages and wherever they go, they fuck. many sicilians have lighter skin and green grey or blue eyes. course the arabs fucked too, hence the darker skin and black hair

R49 most Sicilians aren’t light skinned and the sun destroys light skin there. It’s too strong for fair skin.

[Quote]. So looks like they are going to keep the predatory Uncle abusing his nephew plot, which is bad for many reasons.

Huh? Jack basically gave away to Portia that this wasn't his uncle. He slips and says "his family" rather than "our family" which Portia noticed and called out.

R51 ignore that poster. He’s a moron. Like I keep saying and he keeps getting offended by.

I hope Valentina remembers to get the master key from Mia, otherwise Mia and Lucia will have a field day.

If you look at ancient Roman frescoes uncovered in places like Pompeii they were dark-haired and dark-skinned even back then. I don’t think the Arab invasions gave them that feature, afterall, most mediterranean peoples have darker skin and hair.

R51, that’s what I thought, too, that Jack was drunk and slipped up by referring to his uncle’s family as “them” instead of “us” which Portia then questions.

r52 so far you have accused 3 different posters of being the same person.

[...]

Please don't argue with the troll--that just feeds it. Just Ignore it.

So was Unlcle Rico just setting Jennifer Coolidge up in season 1?

R46, I meant that comment in partial jest, but obviously I didn’t think it through before posting.

They seem to be emphasizing so strongly in the preview for the next episode that Cameron will be attacked by Ethan next episode (he both punches him and shoves his head under the water) that it's almost certain Cameron will NOT become the corpse (at least by means of Ethan's hands).

I agree that Mia's access to the Master Key is likely to be important next episode, as will Niccolo's gun.

Fun piece on the costume choices for the characters for Season 2.

I was half expecting Tanya to have a heart attack from the blow forcing them to dump her body.

^ Me too

For R568 in the last thread: "Fuck off" in Italian is [italic]vaffanculo.[/italic]

I thought the lesbian scene would be more explicit.

SPOILERS!

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Mike White said in an interview with "Town and Country" that he wants to bring back Jennifer Coolidge for Season 3, so we can expect she won't die next episode. He also let slip that he would want to bring her along "to Japan" for the next season, although it's not clear if he definitely does expect to film next season in Japan or if he was speaking of Japan just as a hypothetical.

I blew off the “Greg is the cowboy” theories because it seemed way too soapy and over-the-top, but I guess Mike really went there. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how it plays out but… blegh.

I LOVED the DiGrassos speaking continuing to blather English at the women, as if speaking slightly slower would make them understand. Delicious to see them get their Americunt wake-up call!

I thought they were going to lace Tanya's coke with something to get rid of her - or just let her OD.

Disappointing that they just want a sex video - I hope the guy who has to fuck her gets a bonus.

More delicious Stefano Gianino

Is Valentina supposed to be a virgin?

Never mind—Sabrina Impacciatore says she created her own backstory of Valentina hating men after an abusive relationship.

Where’s Bert/F Murray Abraham at on this poll??

I think the guys believably look like 2 generations of guys who married gorgeous women and begat a really cute grandson

[quote] Where’s Bert/F Murray Abraham at on this poll??

You can vote for him as "Other" if he really floats your boat.

Lucky Niccoló got to eat out Tanya in that salmon-colored dress!!

Did anyone else look for planted clues about who would die all throughout the episode? I’m like everyone having pineapple is going to die! Everyone wearing red is going to die! Everyone doing drugs is going die? I just feel like MW will code something like that so later on you go back and it seems clear as day.

I think Cameron, despite making the complaint, is driving the let’s eat at the resort decision, being that he doesn’t have as much disposable income as he presents and hopes to foist the hotel bill off on Ethan.

[quote]both the vikings and normans conquered siciily in the middle ages and wherever they go, they fuck. many sicilians have lighter skin and green grey or blue eyes. course the arabs fucked too, hence the darker skin and black hair

This is true, my great-grandfather was a blond blue-eyed Sicilian, he was born there. I have green eyes and dark blond hair.

The other theory, about dark-skinned Sicilians, many Sicilian men left Sicily to work in North Africa. Some of these met North African women, then brought them back to Sicily and married these women. Not sure abut this theory, but I did hear that due to the lack of employment in Sicily during a particular time, the men did temporarily go to North Africa to find work.

Portia now sees the downside of rough trade.

Portia is a miserable personality and annoying as hell.

So Tanya didn't even stop to think about why Quentin got a gigolo for her if Greg was Quentin's cowboy? At least Portia seems to be getting that something's not right.

Portia only gets that something's not right because Tanya clued her in.

Didn't realize Aubrey was so sexy

R77 it’s a fancy 5 star resort restaurant for the rich. Only wealthy can afford those places. In real life most of them would eat dinner there and not out at some Sicilian local place. These are rich people. Not “normal” people.

Hmm, after watching next week's trailer, I'm not so sure that Portia isn't one of the bodies floating in the water. That would be just like Tanya - her assistant gets murdered and all she can do is whine about how good help is hard to find.

The trailer makes us think there's some big blow up with Ethan & Harper, though I wonder if they end up like Shan & Mrs. Shane (can't remember her name) - leaving together even though whatever pretense they had of a *happy* couple is gone.

My DiGrasso theory is that all DiGrasso men are pigs and end up cheating on their women, which explains why the Italian DiGrasso women were pissed off and uninterested in meeting the guys. Maybe that’s even why the first DiGrasso left to come to the US.

Loved when Cam referred to Timothy Chamalet.

Wow. This show is tiresome. The Greg as cowboy thing is certainly a long con.

I think they are foreshadowing Ethan killing Cameron as an homage to Talented Mr. Ripley.

Everyone caught the red light on the wall when the gigolo was kissing Tanya right?

Thanks R90

I can’t make up my mind about Theo James. Sometimes he looks handsome and sometimes he looks weird with those eyes so close together.

Tanya clearly didn't connect the dots that was Greg r81. Something about that picture got her mind going but I think we are meant to think she was too fucked up to realize that was young Greg and Quentin.

[quote]I think they are foreshadowing Ethan killing Cameron as an homage to Talented Mr. Ripley.

I think because that's what you *expect* to happen, which makes me think it won't happen.

The trailer was also pointing to something bad happening to Portia but I can't figure out the connection if she does die - why would Portia die but not Tanya.

[quote]The trailer was also pointing to something bad happening to Portia but I can't figure out the connection if she does die - why would Portia die but not Tanya.

I think that's part of The White Lotus zeitgeist, that the rich and fortunate continue their privileged existence while the rest of us become collateral damage.

R65 You are right. Why has gay and straight sex been so explicit, but the lesbian scene was so tame.

Shane knowing about Baby Jane and Tanya referencing Monica Vitti are more believable than Mia knowing that Valentina is gay. That was the least believable thing in both seasons.

^ She even kept her bra on, for heaven's sake.

I think Tanya saw the picture and realized what was going on. She decided in an instant to give Greg what he wanted-- a reason to dump her. It's not like having sex with the gigolo would be an ordeal anyway. A while back she told Greg she often feels bad knowing he only married her because she saved his life.

What I can't figure out is why the picture was there in the first place.

If Quentin is trying to scam Tanya, why would he have photos of her husband out in the open? Especially in a room where he sends his gigolo to fuck her? That's just stupid. Wouldn't he hide the photos of Uncle Rico when inviting Tanya to come stay at the villa?

OMG, it completely went over my head that that was Greg in the photo.

R71 Apparently the actress that plays Valentina is a gay icon in Italy.

R98 Yes! Especially if Valentina was a virgin (I could understand if Mia had seen her around town with some woman).

R101 You would think so. Maybe he was hoping she would freak out, and in her coked up drunken state fall in the ocean a la Natalie Wood?

I think we have to believe that at one point Mia saw Valentina flirting with the receptionist , even though we as a audience we never saw a scene where that happened. But not hard to believe.

The sex Tanya sex tape would be proof of violation of some infidelity clause in the pre-nup if such clauses are included on the wealthier party. I can’t imagine she’d pay significant blackmail on such a thing.

Yeah blackmail doesn't really make sense. Why would Tanya care about a sex tape leaking? She is just a socialite heiress.

And if they wanted to kill her they could have just given her tainted coke.

To me I have to assume Mike White is going with this would violate their prenup so Greg gets more money. It's the only outcome that I can see that would make sense

Why is Rocco in the poll? Wasn't he present in the begging of the first episode when they found the body and then tells Valentina there are multiple dead bodies? Also, he's more of an extra than a character.

[quote][R71] Apparently the actress that plays Valentina is a gay icon in Italy.

Totally could see that.

The poll was not restricted to guests only nor to men who might be the corpse. It asked only who was the hottest man so far on the show. Try to read more carefully next time before you bitch.

R111 My bad

Anyone have any ideas why the picture of Greg was left out in the open? Was Tanya supposed to get upset so she would have revenge sex?

What if Valentina offers Mia a permanent job as a bar singer and that creepy singer she drugged comes back and thinks she drugged him on purposes to steal his spot. But that still wouldn't explain multiple dead bodies.

Maybe the dead bodies they find in the water aren't related to each other.

R113 Or maybe so that the viewers can can put two and two together and go: "oh, that cowboy from the last episode's story is Tanya's husband". Which makes it very soap opera-ish.

My idea of hell would be spending a vacation somewhere beautiful with Cameron and Daphne always demanding attention in public by sexually teasing each other.

[quote]If Quentin is trying to scam Tanya, why would he have photos of her husband out in the open? Especially in a room where he sends his gigolo to fuck her? That's just stupid.

Excellent question. At this point, I'm not sure if there's a twist to the ostensible scam, or if it's just sloppy writing. I guess we'll find out next week.

I loved the episode title for this past episode.

Nothing can beat a Succession episode’s title-“Shit Show at the Fuck Factory.”

What I marvel at is Mike White’s skill at creating a mood, ratcheting up tension with his writing and direction. The prevailing atmosphere in this episode became ominous, dark and sad very quickly. Not easy to do.

Also, this is basically the cozy formula of the British country house mystery which White has tweaked and modernized and darkened and made his own. It’s a gold mine that will keep on giving and giving and giving. Old wine in new bottles is the key to successful entertainment.

I was noticing how much the music last night contributed to the overall mood of tension, r120. The show's composer is very effective.

Yeah, I agree R121. The music choices have been key, even to some of the weirder Italian pop tunes.

Has anyone mentioned how many days have passed since they all checked into the hotel? It feels like the longest vacation of all time.

I think Jack felt guilty about what he was participating in and wanted to confess to Portia. The booze helped a lot.

Seven episodes, each episode representing a day and night, R123. So the latest was Day Six.

Yeah the season always takes place over a week, so 7 episodes is the perfect number.

It does seem odd that Ethan and Harper haven’t had sex once during their entire vacation.

It is R127. Not even a half-hearted attempt.

As weird as Cameron and the blonde's marriage is it works for them. I think they both get off on the other one cheating.

Ethan is bored of having sex with Harper. Sees her as more of a friend than a sexual target.

He basically said this to Cameron and didn't deny it when Harper called him out on it.

Why on earth didn't any of the three di Grassos pull out their smartphone and use it to communicate with the three Sicilian women in their own language?

Pretty basic, I would think.

I squealed knowingly when Ciao Ciao started playing. It only featured at this year's Sanremo Music Festival, someone is very au courant with their music choices.

Oh, and I want to be DP'd by Alessio and his thug friend.

It will be interesting to see what happens to both couples.

Every inch of Will Sharpe is so beautiful! His jawline, his abs, his biceps, his butt, his legs, even his stupid floffy haircut. I'm in awe!

I find him much more appealing than Theo James R133.

He does have particularly nice legs.

Yes, the actors took some flack for saying Daphne and Cameron love each other but I get their point r128.

Cameron and Daphne have a fucked up marriage, but it works for them. There is a lid for every pot as they say.

R130 I wondered that, too. Didn’t Albie use his phone to translate at one point? Why wouldn’t he use it to say they might be related at whatnot.

But I like what an above poster said that maybe all Di Grasso men are shit and those women wouldn’t want to hear what they had to say anyway.

Was Jack told to get Portia away for the night so Quentin and his gang could get Tanya high on blow and in bed with the Italian guy?

Did Lucia arrange to have Alessio follow them so she could strengthen her case to have Albie rescue her and take her to California?

How did Mia know that Valentina was into women?

It’s too bad this episode wasn’t released a few hours earlier, then this thread could be called -

White Lotus - Season 2, Thread Five: A SYMPHONY OF SALMON!

Jack was definitely charged with keeping Portia away for as long as possible.

[QUOTE] How did Mia know that Valentina was into women?

She has good gaydar.

I’m thinking that Ethan is going to beat the shit out of Cameron or hurt him in some other way, then Cameron will guilt him or bribe him to get money. Cameron’s primary goal of this trip was to get money from Ethan and he’ll do it any way he can.

Jack is such a chav, but he seems like he would be so much fun for a weekend/vacation hookup.

If Jack was conscious of a nefarious plan, and his part of it was to make sure Portia stayed away... his getting so drunk he passed out was pretty sloppy.

I think Portia going back and figuring out the scam on Salmon Sally will make her... dangerous.. .. to the gay folk/Mafia... and will be shot with the Chekov gun. Her body shipped back to the hotel and then dumped in the ocean. Portia is the dead body. Tanya is sad, extortion plan broken up, she goes on with her goofy like and shows up in The White Lotus, Kobe Four Seasons.

I predict Jack, Quentin, and Niccolo are goners. Someone is getting shot with Niccolo’s gun for sure.

I liked what Jack said to Portia about never being happy etc. maybe she’ll get her shit together now.

Jack is a good time lad r144. Sure he has his marching orders but ultimately he is a guy that like he tells Portia tried to live for today and enjoy it

But even while shit faced Jack was very adamant that they could not return to the villa. He slipped up at other points while drunk but would not waiver on that.

Jack got wasted so he’d have an excuse not to drive her back to the party. How far away are they from Quentin’s villa? Portia probably isn’t comfortable driving there.

Maybe she’ll call Albie for a ride if Jack keeps dragging his feet. She knows something isnt right- she doubts Jack is Quentin’s nephew and Jack was saying Q was poor but will soon get a lot of money. She will go back for Tanya.

“Get your shit together, Portia!”

— Said by the least together character in this entire saga.

Jennifer Coolidge manages to be fabulous and pathetic, simultaneously. It's an unusual set of skills, no wonder she's a star.

Getting drunk so he couldn't drive was part of the plan, but Jack could hardly divert Tanya with a night of passion if he was passed out. She could have gotten back to the villa on her own.

However, Cefalu to Palermo is over an hour away, 59 km.

R93 as usual, you didn’t understand.

Tanya understood. She just was high on cocaine and drunk on alcohol. Or did you not see her drinking and snorting lines of coke? Did your uneducated brain think that was pixi stick candy???

Also, she can’t let them know she knows. As stated before, Tanya isn’t an idiot and has not been depicted as one like you claim. What she is is an alcoholic pill popper who is lonely and dramatic. But she’s not stupid and seems wise when it comes to culture and money.

Also, I haven’t posted in about 15 hours. I take a break at work and check here and you’re all over the site still. You don’t have a job? School? Nothing?

I believe in S1, as the finale approached, pretty much everyone had guessed that Murray would be the dead body. He is S1's bad guy but his death was basically an accident. All the good guys lived. So if the same would be happen in S2, I can see the bad guys are: Jack(with Portia), Lucia, Quentin, Greg, and Cam . But perhaps their deaths will be also be accidental. Maybe they're all in a boat and it got capsized. Maybe Mt Etna erupted hitting their boat.

R130 Not only was it mystifying that they didn’t use a translation app on their phones to communicate with their purported relatives, but most people research their Italian family before they make a trip to Italy. The whole subplot was just sloppy.

The way Tanya turns her head sometimes and the look on her face really does remind me of Miss Piggy.

R104 gaydar exists in lesbians as well as gay men. We learn in the premiere Lucia and Mia frequent that hotel all the time. Mia has seen Valentina for a long time and saw her flirting with her employee. It’s not hard for a woman to realize what that other woman wants.

R154 actually it wasn’t. Many people just show up.

I kind of like how Harper is screwing with Ethan. I don’t think she slept with Cameron, but knows Ethan thinks that and is messing with him. But I think next episode she’ll stop and try to get him back to normal. He’s about to have a breakdown.

And he looks strong- it could get ugly.

The receptionist Valentina liked is so cute and nice. I’m glad she bagged hottie Rocco.

I think Dominic will be one of the dead bodies, possibly by suicide. Everyone hates him and he always looks manically depressed.

R154, they're 3 entitled Americans. There was a thread on reddit about this subject, "lost relations" showing up unannounced to homes in the Ireland, Italy and Germany and everyone agreeing that's it's a very American thing to do. They wouldn't go to a town in America and find DeGrassos and start knocking on the door. I'd forgotten the post, but it made me wonder last night if Mike White had read the same thing. It was also a lot of Americans being embarrassed because they or their parents had done something similar on vacation. Or sent letters ahead and gotten no response.

There is a very funny sequence in National Lampoon's European Vacation where the Griswalds do just that, R161. They have the address, but end up at the wrong house. As they leave, the non-English speaking hosts say to each other, Who the fuck was that?

I was going to say it too — Dominic is going to kill himself.

Why does Dominic have such a grey looking mouth? His lips look like those on a corpse. Once you notice, it’s very off-putting.

I think Bert will die. He’s already had a stumble, a fall, and now feels the lack of love or whatever he said last episode. I think he’ll fall off that building on the island Quentin told Tanya about. He’ll want to die in Italy, the homeland of his mother.

At least one of the Di Grasso men will die. Lucia will be involved, but I don’t think she’ll want them dead. More like an accident.

European family reunion.

R116 Why would this bother you?? All I'd be thinking about is scheming a way to join them.

Psycho really hasn’t stopped posting since last night…

[quote] Mike White said in an interview with "Town and Country" that he wants to bring back Jennifer Coolidge for Season 3, so we can expect she won't die next episode.

A feint? Would he really telegraph the Tanya character would live to return for the next season?

Honestly it never occured to me Coolidge might die r170. Mike White didn't have to bring her to season 2, he wanted to.

I think White Lotus is going to always include Coolidge at this point. A hotel, a death, Coolidge. The bones of this show.

Bert's speech about wanting a homecoming was heartbreaking.

He's dying for sure. Dominic's little joke about not falling was just too shoved-in-there; it's paying off in the next episode.

R145, when Daphne bumped into a dead body in the ocean and ran back to shore, we cut to Valentina on the beach wanting to know what happened, and Rocco told her that one of the guests had drowned and other bodies have been found. Other guests have been found. So it sounds like it was only guests of the hotel and not anyone from Quentin's crowd.

R141 R156 No one has gaydar that good. I would understand if Valentina looked stereotypically gay, but she doesn't. I mean the actress portraying her isn't gay

R144 You are forgetting there are multiple dead bodies, not just one.

[quote] I think White Lotus is going to always include Coolidge at this point.

That her character would always be safe would detract from a murder mystery franchise.

Tonya will Forest Gump her way out of this one.

r173, Rocco did not say that the other bodies were guests from the hotel. Also, the most regularly identifiable members of Quentin's crowd were guests at the hotel.

R174 uneducated loser, she saw Valentina flirting with the employee more than once. Rewatch. They interrupted her.

The rich are most likely not dying.

R158 It's interesting to me that Harper in the beginning, while certainly and little smug about her PC perspectives, also seemed the most normal, likeable character (except for Albie). Now she is really off-centered and unpleasant... the direct, un-manipulative, authentic woman is actually wildly manipulative.

R148 I took that as "trust me, it takes one to know one..."

R181 because she believes her husband cheated on her and isn’t attracted to her. That has to be a terrible feeling. She’s now giving him a taste of his own medicine.

Issue is he didn’t cheat but she doesn’t know that, nor does she believe or trust Cameron’s word. She saw Ethan asking Cam to vouche for him.

LOL at r26 trying to get snobby about "Top of the line all inclusive resort", as if that's not an oxymoron.

I imagine he also thinks he's classy because he only does the buffet at the Bellagio.

The idea Quentin would've shared his money problems and his plans with his rent boy of the month is just soap opera levels of ridiculous.

It may not be that Quentin shared them but that Jack figured it all out while living with him, r184. I don't imagine to would be hard to puzzle out.

r185 Jack doesn't strike me as the perceptive type

R186 I think he is. He's the type that clowns around a lot but actually pays attention and is perceptive. He has to be, considering his background. He's a hustler like Quentin.

R183 not all resorts are 5 star. Not all resorts have the same offerings. And not all resorts are all inclusive.

They’re at one that has anything and everything available to them, because it’s a resort for the rich.

You’re running your mouth (like always) and only exposing yourself some more.

R187 Almost preconscious perceptive hypervigilance... a lot of street successes have this, and quality that enables survival.

I thought one of the more interesting speeches, unexpected, off the wall and out of character, was Jack's expression of gratitude to "his uncle", who "found him in the deepest, darkest hole and helped him get out." There seemed to be a real gratitude there... and explained (if needed) why he would be happy to be part of criminal scam with Quentin.

Again Valentina's expressions were really a treat to watch. So subtle, so good. The way her face falls when the receptionist tells her she's engaged to Rocco. The shifting with the eyes as one of the prostitutes proposes they find a room.. I find her one of the highlights of the season.

R189 being part of a criminal scam is one thing, but being obliged to fuck old Quentin.. yikes.

I predict the following: There will be three bodies, and all three died the evening before. Two of them will die at the same time, maybe in an altercation of sorts. The other one won't have anything to do with it, and may not even be the result of a heinous crime.

r188 That was my first post in this thread, but nice try. Or are you that sad little poster who pretends all the other posters here are just one person? The one who claimed he could view IP addresses or whatever it was. How embarrassing for you.

R190 didn’t understand any of it (per usual), huh? He’s only part of the scam because he fucks Quentin. And he only fucks Quentin to not end up back in that deep hole. Quentin saved his life. Why? He keeps him around because he fucks him. That’s his toy.

I found the writing for the latest episode (six) incredibly lazy and at times sloppy. Plot twists so cheap they would make Agata Christie blush, lines so hammy they wouldn't be out of play in a telenovela.

Greg is the cowboy in the picture, it was him on the phone. He needed to be out of the country for Tanya to meet her demise. Sure, whatever. The good old "an old photograph suddenly connects all the dots"-trope. If you can't come up with a way out, go with that one, has worked for almost a hundred years.

R191 what is wrong with you? You really are that stupid? You really don’t get it? You don’t know by now that posting from different accounts doesn’t change where the posts are coming from? You are a grown ass adult. You have no job. No education. No schooling. Nothing. You have been posting on here from numerous accounts for over 16 hours. Wake up.

r193 Plus the ridiculous exposition from Jack just before he passes out

r194 LOL you sound like a 14 year old. Go on then, fuckwit, where are the posts coming from? Location or IP, your choice.

R192 did you think I was calling you out or something? I just said "yikes" as in "what a ghastly thing to endure".

Then again, "yikes" may well be very suitable for the likes of you. Wouldn't mind reading about your measly body washing ashore in Sicily... Now off you go, back to the Ignored List.

Many of you seem to think the point of this series is for you to match wits with Mike White while you watch it, as if you were reading "Encyclopedia Brown."

It's not a traditional mystery.

r197, No, it's just expecting better storytelling than soap operas

[quote]He's dying for sure

You may be right, particularly since ep1 starts off with him falling & Dom blows the whole thing off because he's got a hooker lined up to come to his room & doesn't want to be bothered with farting gramps.

Okay, the body count leaderboard is: Portia, Bert & Greg

Who is the very active troll in these threads who seems to annoy other posters? I've got it blocked so it must have been annoying in other threads butly I'm missing tons of posts.

Is Tanya Tucker in this?

His name is Matt Anscher, r200. He's actually posting from several addresses, including the one where he's listed as "DARKGEMINILORD," and also anonymously at r7/r17/etc.

The giveaway is that he always hurls abuse at people and tells them they're pathetic for not being as smart as he claims he is.

He's been on Datalounge for years.

Having the grandfather die would be truly lame, and really not much of a shock.

My bets are on Jack, Greg and the dark-haired prostitute.

One more homage to Miss VALENTINA before turning in for the night.

I know it won’t happen but I’d love this dialogue exchange between Tanya and Portia.

Portia: He said he was in “a hole.”

Tanya: He was in a hole, alright. His uncle’s!

Jennifer Coolidge's Tanya as an Angela Lansbury/Murder She Wrote type sleuth. Murder, She Snorted. If every time she goes on vacation there are deaths, this is where we are headed.

I don't think Jack is especially aware of any of Quentin's nefarious plans. Nor does he care. Quentin gave him a credit card and simply told him to get Portia out of the way for the night and Jack happily obliged in gratitude for Quentin saving him from his deep hole.

We'll all find out next week but I wouldn't expect Mike White to end this series with anything predictable.

[quote]A feint? Would he really telegraph the Tanya character would live to return for the next season?

The show might not be all about her but she's the familiar thing we'll keep returning to. Next season she and Greg will likely be over, and I'm kinda' heading towards Portia dying (since she keeps saying they're alike) and Tanya having to deal with feeling responsible by dragging her on the trip and away with her and those people in the first place.

I also think her telling Portia to get her shit together was also really Tanya saying that to herself.

[quote]I don’t think she slept with Cameron, but knows Ethan thinks that and is messing with him. But I think next episode she’ll stop and try to get him back to normal. He’s about to have a breakdown.

And Ethan deserves it. It was almost painful watching him lie over and over again to Harper's. He remained loyal to a guy who treated him horribly in college, wants money from him now & stripped naked in front of his wife. Of course she doesn't believe him now especially since there was no reason for him to lie about it at all other than to keep his promise to Cameron.

Aren’t we about 3 days (in hotel time) past when Greg said he’d come back?

R178, I just rewatched the beginning. Rocco did say the other bodies were guests of the hotel.

Also when Valentina asked how many, Rocco said, "a few", but didn't specify how many "a few" was.

So how many do you think "a few" is? Definitely more than 2, wouldn't you think?

I can't wait to see how it ends.

If it aligns with themes of season 1 then it's most likely Portia, Jack, Lucia or Mia that die. The none rich people.

If you like White Lotus you should watch Triangle of Sadness.

I mostly didn't like Triangle of Sadness except for the middle part where Woody Harrelson gets drunk and tries to start a revolution While all the passengers are throwing up. That part of the movie was hysterical

I think this show is intentionally campy - which is different than soapy. It’s not trying to be realist about Tanya’s wacky life, it’s dialed up to 11. Of course her BLM husband whom she picked up in Hawaii is secretly a gay cowboy. But the show plays it tongue-in-cheek somewhat.

Anyone know the painting that is featured in a still shot during the last 2 episodes' sex scenes at the pallazzo? A bare breasted woman in profile with a dagger. Is that Solome? I couldn't get a screen grab to do a Google image.

Ethan is a fake “nice guy,” the way that I was worried Albie would turn out to be. His insistence and then anger at trying to make Harper say he didn’t lie was the first real flash of personality we saw from him, and it was unpleasant. He DID lie! And he’s weak as fuck, blaming Cameron when he went along with it all.

The Greg is conspiring story (with lover conveniently near a White Lotus property) is corny.

It's all part of Belinda's curse.

R216 I think Ethan suffers from penis envy.

I love the posts about why one wouldn’t leave the hotel for dinner…🤡

Short answer: @ the Four Seasons, on Sicily, in Taormina…of course you would venture out one or more nights during a vacation week!! How could you not (if you’d been there).

Otherwise: who cares—it is not relevant to the drama on hand.

R219 No he suffers from Cameron envy. Cameron fucked every woman Ethan liked and now he thinks Cameron is fucking or trying to fuck his wife.

R210 here. I forgot to add that after a body is being carried out in a body bag by the police, I think it's the police, the camera pans up to a white bird flying in the sky.

The same white bird in the opening credits that coincides with Aubrey Plaza's name.

How do you know it's the same bird, Dorothy?

R219 R221 The two aren't mutually exclusive.

R216 he is a nice guy. A nice guy who is being pushed over the edge by his college “bestie” who was always a dick to him. Ethan is a pushover but is finally standing up for himself because now it isn’t Cam fucking a girl Ethan likes, it’s Cam coming between him and his wife. He’s had enough.

All those old resentful feelings are coming back and after so many years of suppressing them, they’re coming back stronger than ever.

He’s angry and he has every right to be.

Also, he didn’t lie to Harper. He did nothing.

R220 that’s you. Not everyone is the same.

Ethan isn’t envious. He’s resentful and a bit jaded.

I doubt he has penis envy for anyone except Cameron. I have never heard of men having penis envy, only women are supposed to have it although it doesn't exist.

That poster is ridiculous and far too immature for a series like this. R228

It’s obvious all those old resentful feelings Ethan felt toward Cam are coming back but only in a more extreme way.

[quote] I have never heard of men having penis envy,

It's an old Woody Allen line, he claimed to be the only man with penis envy. It's a joke.

Oh thank you R230. I didn't know that.

Maybe Grandpa will go for a swim. He seemed quite depressed after the visit with his relatives.

The twist could be that Quentin is setting up Greg as the bad guy, when Greg might have brought Tanya to Quentin because he owes him somehow. Maybe that's why Quentin left out the photo after telling Tanya his sad story about unrequited love with his straight cowboy. He wanted her to put it together. And the story about the woman who would not sell her island to the Mafia and then ended up dead on the rocks of the beach was to make it more legit when a supposed Mafia thug (Niccolo) suddenly threatened her unless she turned over some cash. Jack has mentioned that Quentin always has old hags hanging around. Maybe they are being drawn into his web so he can run a scam on them.

Ethan did lie. Harper asked him many times what he and Cameron did all night and he repeatedly said they did nothing. Only when Harper showed evidence (the condom wrapper) did he admit what happened.

R234 he lied for Cameron, yes. Most men aren’t gonna snitch on their boy cheating on his wife. That’s just a fact.

However, he didn’t lie about himself. He did nothing. Cam did.

Ethan lied by omission because he didn't want to set off Harper. They don't have trust in their relationship. He's selfish and doesn't think of her as an equal. He prefers his porn even when she's willing to have sex.

He pretends to be a nice guy but he's really spineless and victim playing.

What Jack said to Portia about the world not being that bad is what I like to tell people who go on and on about how everything in America is rotten and want to tear down all the institutions. MAGAs are even more crazy and can't be reasoned with at all.

R236 no, he lied for Cameron because he’s not gonna throw his friend under the bus and tell Harper he’s a cheat. And you wouldn’t either.

It makes sense that Tanya would return for S3--she basically has nothing better to do than travel. Sadly, tis show has reminded me that a little Jennifer Coolidge goes a long way. She's annoying. I guess the convoluted twists were necessary because the plot seemed to be going nowhere interesting. Speaking of which, I hope Portia is the one who dies because she has gotten so irritating.

The trip to the relatives was odd---is a plot line that fizzled but was kept? will the relatives re-appear because have they have some secret about the family members who emigrated?

the Ethan-Harper storyline is another annoyance--perhaps we are meant to think it will lead to the murder of Cameron. Harper seems so shrewish at this point that it would be better if she went home in a body bag.

There’s a difference between “Ethan didn’t lie” and “Ethan lied, but it was justified / he had to / he didn’t lie about himself.” He and Harper seemed think of themselves as a couple that doesn’t lie at all between them. Ethan got upset/angry when Harper refused to keep maintaining that fiction. As she pointed out, they were already lying to each other by pretending everything was fine between them. Ethan is in deep denial about something.

The photo scene had me searching for younger images of Tom Hollander.

Not so much younger, with his former wife-to-not-be. A very short engagement.

R239 you really don’t seem to get this series.

It’s not plot driven. It’s character driven. We are watching the lives of different small groupings of people over the course of a week at the resort. The characters and their individual stories over that week span are the plot.

Ethan. Did. Not. Lie. He said he did nothing. He didn’t. He did not say Cameron did nothing.

Neither of the guys in the photo looked like younger versions of the actors, even thought I’m sure they used correct photos. I wouldn’t have ever guessed that was Greg if it weren’t for the DL theory.

Greg is sure no Brokeback Mountain fantasy. If we were expected to believe this, why not hire a better looking older actor to portray Greg?

R242: Character driven? They're pretty unlikable characters stuck inin silly plots.

Ummmm maybe because it’s not some fucking gay porn fantasy r245. Not every gay man needs to be an Abercrombie model. And less attractive ones find love too. Jesus.

R246 yes. Character driven. As I’ve said, this show isn’t for someone like you b

I've always thought Tom Hollander was gay and that he officially came out years ago. He was engaged to a woman?!

btw, he's of Czechoslovakian descent, his father escaped the Nazis. His mother is English.

R246 here.

Ha, I love the opinion that Ethan didn't lie (the guy who slammed his laptop shut and lied about his porn). He got drunk, did mollie, hung out with hookers in the room he and his wife stayed in... and said. "oh we didn't do anything." Classic liar behavior is to rationalize why you lie.

Huge clue underappreciated on these threads: the ceramic heads - symbolizing the story of the Moor who seduced a young Sicilian girl, lied about his marriage, and suffered her response - she cut off his head. The climax of this season will involve infidelity, lies, jealousy and revenge. I also note that the old lady at the DiGrasso house was incensed and stabbing at the air with a knife ... whose head did SHE want to cut off and why? Last: Greg screwing Tanya when she saw the ceramic heads as some kind of dissociative premonition.

Guess #26: Tanya finds out that Greg has "a family" and goes nuts and kills him... after eating 5-6 macarons.

Ethan never lied about his porn.

R251 is 100% exaggerating. Ethan did mollie and drank alcohol but didn’t seek out the whores, he didn’t even engage with them much. He hid in his room when Cameron brought the whores to Ethan’s room, leading to Ethan hiding in the shower by himself. Lucia then went and got him, tried to kiss him, with Ethan refusing the kiss. He then sat on the floor, looking confused and like he felt disgusted as Cameron fucked the whores.

He did nothing. Cameron also pressured him and tried cornering him.

I'm thinking it's Portia or Jack who ends up dead

Well, now we knew why Haley lu Ricahrdson was cast as Portia. They needed someone who could plausibly look as big as Jennifer Coolidge in 30 years' time.

Cameron’s the kind of person who can do the worst shit and still come out smelling like a rose. He won’t be the one to die. He and his wife will be fine and live their weird little adulterous lives and stay together forever. And they’ll be their brand of happy.

What's the consensus on last night's dong?

Real or prosthetic?

R253 All of what you describe is "something" and he said he did "nothing".... so, you fuck around on your partners, don't you? Ha.

Also, we KNOW you are posting from many different accounts, including the suburbs of Moscow and dark back rooms of gay bars in Missouri... you will shortly be cut off from DL because of this, your credit rating is severely impacted, and you really need to talk to my barber to get some help.

R258 this show isn’t for you man. You’re in over your head. It’s beyond embarrassing at this point.

[quote]That her character would always be safe would detract from a murder mystery franchise.

This is not a murder mystery franchise r176!

There was no murder in season 1, Murray Bartlett's death was an accident. For all we know the dead bodies are Quentin's group that capsized and drowned.

Someone dies but that doesn't make it whodunnit Murder Mystery.

[quote] I think this show is intentionally campy - which is different than soapy

Tanya’s character is very campy, so much so that her behavior stands out as an odd juxtaposition against many of the other characters.

I can appreciate how her eccentric persona offsets much of the skullduggery in the general arc of the show, but sometimes Tanya’s performance is more appropriate to a straight-up comedy.

Ethan is a closed down, duplicitous, dishonest scum... can't judge that website by its splash page.

R260 thank you. I just told someone else than on TikTok. They said “I didn’t know this was a murder mystery show” and I replied “because it isn’t. But for some reason some people (mostly Gen z) think it is”.

It’s sad to me.

Also, comments for some of the clips of season 1 show how so many people don’t even understand what the show is trying to say. It goes over their heads, especially with the Paula character.

[quote] That her character would always be safe would detract from a murder mystery franchise.

Who would want to watch a murder mystery franchise where one character always survives?

R262 you are in over your head. You didn’t even know what character driven storytelling was minutes ago. You think this show is a murder mystery. You should go watch Riverdale and allow the intelligent adults discuss this series.

Mike White on Fresh Air today.

A "series" where there is always an unidentified dead body in the opening scenes, and then multiple episodes as we see different subplots that might explain who the body was and how they died.

Murder mystery, nah.

R61 That's a Saint Laurent wallet on chain Lucia's wearing. It looks like the YSL metal logo was deliberately blurred.

But that's not true r267. Mike White is not trying to build clues so the audience can put the pieces together and solve who is going to die. How can you watch Season 1 and think that's what the show is about? The plot of season really have nothing to do with Armand dying in the finale, sure people guessed he was a likely candidate but there was no trial of clues of 'ta da!"

Mike White has said this himself. The whole adding in a body is more just to raise the sense of dread and have danger linger over the season. It's more to achieve the mood he wants for the show.

[Quote]The first episode of this series frames the show as a murder mystery, but that’s not exactly how things turn out. Can you talk about that decision?

[quote]As someone who doesn’t really traffic in the world of mysteries and dead bodies, I was, like, you know, it’s such a trope at this point. All of these limited series where there’s a dead body at the beginning. I was, like, You want your dead body? Here’s your dead body. I also felt like it was helpful in the sense that I knew I wanted to create a show that had this kind of cognitive dissonance of beautiful people and a beautiful location, but then there’s this sense of dread, of blood in the mouth. Something dangerous was going to happen. You want to feel like, at some point, there’s going to be a human sacrifice. With this show, I wanted to say, “Yeah, there’s actually going to be blood on the floor here.

Oh God. R242 is the idiotic Mad Men “you don’t understand the show!” troll.

r270, he's all over this thread under many guises/addresses.

Everyone is best off just blocking whichever poster chastises someone else for not being smart or worldly enough to understand the show, which is always his dead giveaway.

^^^(Even though I post this, he STILL will not be able to resist doing it, at least for very long, so OCD-ingrained is it in his system to always give himself away that way.)

R271 Wait, could YOU be he? You are criticizing him to criticize yourself? Hmmm. Mike White should write this...

I truly feel for Valentina's repressed character. It can't be easy being an Italian lesbian (Italian culture is just very male-forward). I'd somehow be surprised if there is an even a lesbian bar in all of Italy..

Now he’s Italian

r260 I disagree — it definitely uses the same narrative devices as your standard murder mystery. You know from the first scene in episode 1 that someone was killed, so up until the end of the last episode, you keep wondering who the victim and the murderer are. Those questions, along with why Shane and Daphne are not with their spouses at the beginning, really propel the story forward. It is unique, though, in that it's more of a comedy mystery, a mostly uncharted genre. Sunset Boulevard and American Beauty are the only films I can think of that follow the same structure.

R274, what was that?

Jack’s voice is so fucking annoying. I can’t stand listening to him.

That was definitely the actor's real penis r257. It didn't have that prosthetic look and it was real world size.

The Italian guys dick was his.

I don’t get posters who think Jennifer Coolidge is just phoning it in, that she’s dumb, one-note, annoying.

As with last season, you start out dismissing her as a rich airhead but then she confounds you with a genuine insight and a sense that she does understand what is really important in life. But she’s never had it, doesn’t think she deserves it, so goes through life numbing herself with self-indulgence.

I love the idea that Tanya, this rich, indolent, self-centered but shrewd woman is like a cockroach — she will outlive them all. And will never stop looking for love in all the wrong places.

I love Coolidge, but the reason the character worked so well last season was that she had a tragic air about her. She really was conflicted about her tortured relationship with her dead mother.

This season there's not as much at stake for her emotionally since her attachments to Greg and Portia and Quentin are all so shallow. While I've not objected to her this season (she brings a little relief to all the tension with the Ethan/Harper story), they need to bring back some genuine pain for Tanya next season or she'll cease to be interesting.

I think Isabella is the most attractive female this season. Great smile. So sweet and needs to be protected at all costs.

It's most definitely not a murder mystery show. It's a show playing into our innate fear of death and how it can ruin and inconvenience a very expensive, and expected to be perfect, vacation for the rich and privileged. Something wicked this way comes.

For me, it was very odd that the Di Grasso guys, especially Bert, never mentioned the actual name of Bert's mother to the D iGrasso women. I mean, the old crone might have reacted differently, unless there is some old sibling feud (Bert's mom leaving her family behind?) going on the guys are not aware of. The whole set up reminded me of Golden Girl's Sophia and her feud with her estranged sister Angela in the episode The Sisters. Definitely a good reason to do some research before visiting some distant relatives.

The whole Di Grassio reunion was hilarious, three men vs. three women and the women being very "we need no men in our lives, fuck off!". Very on point with the season's theme.

In the final moment of episode six, I was expecting a camera, aimed at Tanya and the Italian stallion, to get shown during the moving away dolly shot.

Bert dies while having sex with Lucia.

This is an interesting piece in "Variety" that explores all the theories out there about the show, some of which (like the Quentin-Greg conspiracy, and the idea that Cameron might have planted the condom wrapper on purpose) sound obvious and have been much discussed here, while others (like the idea Tanya is an evil mastermind setting her husband up) which have not been much discussed here.

That would be hilarious. I did wonder why perma-horny Bert didn't just hire them too but I suppose Dominic has the money.

[quote] Bert dies while having sex with Lucia.

Are you sure you mean Lucia and not her friend, the piano player ? Yeah, it would be very on point for Bert going out like this.

From the promos, it looks like a few characters, Daphne for one, will be visiting Isola Bella. The history of which Quentin explained to a very curious Tanya, and promised to bring her there.

It might be the location where some of the different storylines overlap and play out

I hope we have something shockingly transgressive for the finale, along the lines of Armond pooping on Shane's suitcase. It needn't be scatological again, but it would be fitting if again this series really shocked everyone with where it was willing to go in the season finale.

Or a Moldavian wedding massacre.

Me thinks someone or more will get beheaded. You know the heads theme and all.

R293 That could explain Daphne's horrified reaction to what is floating in the water

Tanya has zero depth. She's clueless about everything --from Greg, to Portia, to Quentin, all the way back to the woman at the Hawaii hotel that she "bonded" with but dumped. She's there for comic relief and because she's friends with Mike White. I suppose at this point she is cute mascot for the show and they will keep her around to do her nutty things while everyone else is playing a more realistic person. The only Actor I would nominate for this season is Aubrey Plaza. Good job.

R279, and a fine cazzo it was.

R293 Right, that's almost a given when you consider the grisly tale the couples are greeted with on their arrival - as the price for infidelity.

R297 Or maybe to obvious for Mike White?

The ultimate tragedy would be for Ethan losing his head even though he didn't cheat on Hunter, even though she may still be convinced he did.

Fantasy Island meets Survivor. Fucking Brilliant. Can't wait for the Finale and Season 3.

While not pretty, Harper has a nice body and she's indicated that she is interested and would be at least adequate as a sex partner. Yet Ethan has no desire for her, although they are well-suited as a couple. When you recall how graphically Mark (Steve Zahn) told his son about his revulsion at having sex with his wife in S1, you wonder if this recurring theme is a particular hang-up of Mike White's.

I had never heard of Enlightened before, but it turns out Mike White wrote some of the best episodes in a series that I think of as fantastic tv, Freaks and Geeks. So I am bingeing Enlightened now. Mike White has a large part in it, as well as having written it. He's actually a pretty good actor and when you watch him in Enlightened, you get an idea of what he is like as a person. It's worth noting that on a scale of 1-10, he is about a 3, looks-wise.

I actually know someone who is much like the lead character Amy. She is an attractive blonde middle-aged (very) Californian who while being warm, sincere and well-meaning, is unstable and entirely clueless abut her impact on others.

Enlightened never got the full recognition it deserved. Like another season.

I am amazed at how some of you immediately clocked Greg in that picture.

R303 Like someone else already said, only because the theory had been espoused here. Personally I thought it was a little outlandish.

I can understand she didn't want Portia to cause a scene and Tanya wouldn't want to admit she walked right in the room when she heard them having sex. But I still think she should have let Portia know about Jack and his "uncle".

R303 Can you pleased explain how you captured that image? I seem to be prevented copying from an hbo source.

Tanya seems very worldly in some ways, though naive in others. Having grown up in San Francisco, she should have known immediately what working-class Jack was doing with the wealthy gay crew.

You can so easily tell that the damning photo was Photoshopped.

R307, old San Francisco broads have seen it all -- a lot of Tanya's naiveté can be a little tough to buy.

R306 I found the image in an article online, copied it, and uploaded it to ibb.co

Alternatively, like I did in the previous thread, I could've rewatched the episode and simply take a screengrab, then upload it to ibb.co

I will post the link in my follow-up, otherwise Muriel's overzealous filter will delete my entry.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

By the way, R303 — if you are using Windows: You can easily select a part of your screen and take a screenshot by pressing Shift + Windowskey + S. If you're on mac it's Shift + Command + 4

You can then upload said screengrab to, for example, ibb.co

.

PS: I just realised the image of the photo frame can't be found in DM's article.. must've been another one.

Aubrey is unconventionally pretty, has a good body and radiates sexual heat.

Portia thinks the world is a fucked up place where everything is "literally falling apart". Harper sees things as being so bad to the degree that having kids is not recommended. And both are surprised that this is not self-evident to others. Is this meant to portray a common characteristic of young American women? Not familiar with it.

If not a murder mystery, why so much speculation here as to who will die (and not of natural causes)?!

R312 Thanks. That's my routine technique. But when grabbing the HBO portion of the screen, results in an image that is all black. I'm sure it is purposefully protected.

I think we’re all going to find out that the ones floating in the ocean are the people who didn’t wait a half hour after partaking of the resort buffet.

This season is so underwhelming to me, I loved anll the plots last year but this time around the only characters I really feel for are Ethan, Harper, & Portia. I can’t stand the hookers, the intergenerational family is so dull, Cameron’s wife sucks & he’s annoying as well. Valentina is ok but a bit flat, definitely an Armond downgrade. And don’t get me started on Tanya.

I agree with you, R318. None of the characters generate any excitement. What's keeping me engaged is the spectacular interior settings.

Ewww you like Portia, R318?

I like Portia, but am more of a Haley Lu fan. I loved her in the PBS movie The Chaperone, & there’s some quality of hers that reminds me of Sue Lyon, her mouth or smile maybe?

I think next season should be set at the White Lotus Moscow, Idaho.

Brie Larson for S3. I want to see her Play an older Olivia-esque character.

R322, or White Lotus: Moscow, Russia -- defenestration mystery edition.

Olivia Colman will probably be in Season three, she ends up in EVERYTHING! Maybe she can be Tanya’s long lost sister challenging her for the parents estate.

Tanya probably never checked if Greg actually worked at the Bureau Of Land Management.

ugh r325 don't wish her on us. She is in too much and gets on my nerves.

I feel like Mike owes us a predominately Gay cast and character season next time around.

I'd like to see Laura Dern and MERYL in S3

I wonder if Tanya only imagined Greg in the picture due to her drug induced state? She knew something was about to happen with the drug dealer, and it was her guilty conscience expressing itself?

Tanya rejected the hustler from season one when she knew she had a good thing with Greg at the end of season one. With Tanya no longer sure about her relationship with Greg, she is looking for a new "good thing" and she thinks she found it with Quentin and the attention he pays to her needs (including Nico, the drug dealer).

[quote]I feel like Mike owes us a predominately Gay cast and character season next time around.

Stephen Spinella and Ben Daniels celebrate their 20th anniversary at the White Lotus but get distracted by Kit Connor, the 19 year old son of Helena Bonham Carter and Simon Russell Beale. Ben sets up a Grindr profile to catfish Kit.

What if there's a big reveal that this whole trip and everything that has happened to Ethan was cooked up by Harper to toughen him up and save their marriage?

Deaths? Heart attack, accidental drowning, suicide? Fill in the names then off with their heads!

I'm surprised at how enamored everyone is of Harper. Here and on other sites, she's put on a pedestal. I almost think it's because of her dynamic with Ethan. She's the alpha in the relationship. However, she's not the alpha when it comes to Daphne and Cameron. Daphne always dictates what they're going to do and she always goes along. For example, booking that villa overnight. If she were an alpha, she would have made Daphne drive her back to the hotel that day. Not because she didn't like the villa but as a power move to assert her control but she didn't. Instead she stayed. She allowed Cameron to touch her under the table. She allowed Cameron to undress in her full view. If she were an alpha she would have called him out immediately and embarrassed him but she never did. Instead, she lets Cameron slowly dominate her.

I empathize with Harper but I'm not putting her on a pedestal. They both should have been strong enough to discuss what happened with the hookers immediately. But they didn't because each person is afraid of losing something. Instead, Harper devolves into playing petty mind games and Ethan continues being Ethan.

I don't like Harper at all and would have no problem with it if they had killed her off in the first episode.

This, of course, means Aubrey Plaza is doing a stellar job.

I like the idea of Daphne being some sort of a mastermind (per the Variety article above) who uses their vacation to get rid of her cheat of a husband, but it makes no sense to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Unless he's got a grand life insurance that she'd like to cash in on..

No, I think Cameron will be alive and well when Daphne discovers the body.

I think the obvious scenario is Quentin is going to get Tanya out to that island and try to have her fall from the tower thing like the woman in the story did. Make it look like a suicide. It won’t work and Quentin will be the one to die.

Why would either the gays or Greg kill Tanya while the pre-nup is in place? I think they are just going to sell her a time share in the villa, possibly with the aid of blackmail via compromising photos, and Greg will receive a hefty commission. enabling him to leave her. Recall that in the overheard phone call, he said, 'I love you. I'll be home soon.'

[quote]Stephen Spinella and Ben Daniels celebrate their 20th anniversary at the White Lotus but get distracted by Kit Connor, the 19 year old son of Helena Bonham Carter and Simon Russell Beale. Ben sets up a Grindr profile to catfish Kit.

Can Ben be a chav with a mullet like he was in [italic]Beautiful Thing[/italic]?

If Tanya kills herself would Greg get her money?

The clues about a murder/death at Palermo

1. the suitcase which is so big it generates a question "are you hiding a dead body in there"

2. the gigolo's gun

3. A plan to swindle Tanya

4. sneaky homosexuals

The clues about murder/death at the hotel

1. Lucia and the Albie/Dominic sex for pay triangle/fake pimp scandal

2. Ethan's jealousy, and Cam/Daphne swindle

3. Valentina trying to cover up her lesbianism

4. The piano player killing Mia for drugging him and taking his job

R266: White sounds like a 12 year old girl in that interview. The location led to a change in plot, which may explain why it seems so awkward. He also concedes being awkward about sex.

The character driven meme would make sense if there weren't so many characters.

I don't think Cameron has any money. Life insurance may be the only thing he has left

[quote]I think next season should be set at the White Lotus Moscow, Idaho.

White Lotus, Manhattan, Kansas or Paris, Texas. Talk about a lack of beautiful scenery!

R283: Listen to the Fresh Air interview. White doesn't have that depth.

How about sticking all these hateful spoiled tedious self-absorbed manipulative people in a small hick town, then let them deal with real life.

After awhile, it gets tiresome watching these types of people. All these series about vengeful plotting rich people have become grating and repetitious. In no particular order: Billions, Succession, Gossip Girl, Big Little Lies, Sex and The City, Empire, Riviera, not to mention all the reality shows about empty rich trashy people.

R347 Schitt's Creek?

Rich characters are more fun r347. Beautiful settings, beautiful wardrobe, you get all the spectacle for the screen. Plus it is easy to hate on privileged people.

What are we, chopped liver?

At least we're real!

R44 It did seem like a paid mention of a name and very awkwardly done because Chalamet is not a mainstream household name and certainly not the first actor one associates with the word sexy. The mention landed with a thud so they really should think twice about adulterating their script in the future. His team is trying so hard to make him the next Chris Evans or DiCaprio. It won't happen.

One of the reasons that I think this season of “White Lotus” is better than the first is that it wasn’t restricted by shooting during Covid lockdown. We’ve gotten a heavenly travelogue of a part of southern Italy. And I’ve been intrigued by all the plotlines and relationships this season.

Funny, R352, exactly the fact that the other White Lotus seemed so much more confined, to the point of oddly claustrophobic at times, was why I liked it so much.

"I'll love you and be home soon..." Greg is the Moor with the family hidden from Tanya. He'll lose his head.

r321, Haley Lu played Louise Brooks in that awful film The Chaperone? Wow, I didn't recognize her but I remember feeling she was she was horribly miscast as Brooks. Too short and chubby for starters. I know some folks who worked on the film who told me Haley Lu was a last minute replacement for another actress.

R233, I think you’re on to something. It would be a great twist for Quentin to get his unrequited love for Greg “avenged” by setting him up via a murder plot against Tanya.

[quote]Portia thinks the world is a fucked up place where everything is "literally falling apart". Harper sees things as being so bad to the degree that having kids is not recommended. And both are surprised that this is not self-evident to others. Is this meant to portray a common characteristic of young American women? Not familiar with it.

I'm 30, and yes this is a not uncommon feeling amongst my milieu, and the feeling does seem to present itself most often in straight white women. It's not a monolithic view, but it's around.

Haley Lu Richardson was wonderful in the underappreciated 2017 film Columbus. It got overshadowed that year by the inferior (imo) Lady Bird.

Haley Lu will likely have an odd career: Like Mare Winningham and Kirsten Dunst before her, she's talented, and though she's kind of pretty now she's by no means beautiful. She will likely always be in supporting parts.

I forgot about the dead body/suitcase comment. Who made it and who was it addressed to?

Mike White did a great interview with Terry Gross for NPR's Fresh Air. Fans should check it out.

Just google: Mike White Fresh Air Terry Gross

The real twist would be if Greg's body is in that heavy suitcase.

I think Jack will have a fentanyl OD.

R360 Jack to Portia. But I really wouldn't read anything into it.

How come nobody’s wearing a Speedo?

It made no sense they had a whole scene about how hung the guy was and then he ends up being barely above average. Do the new MeToo rules at HBO stop them from making actors to strip at the auditions? Anyone in The Biz want to weigh in?

They couldn't get Theo to give the 12" prosthetic back

All I can say is I know and you're not going to believe it.

[quote]It made no sense they had a whole scene about how hung the guy was and then he ends up being barely above average.

News flash, Rose: THEY GET BIGGER WHEN THEY'RE ERECT.

Christ it's like some of you never saw an erect penis before.

r366 Here's the cock, just to refresh everyone's memory,

R44: Such a forced line but very strategic and clever. Name-drop on a highly watched show.

I think Cameron and Daphne's relationship is very common among most rich and famous couples. You know, where the woman knows the man screws around, but is fine with it as long as he doesn't catch feelings and it doesn't get back to her. Especially public embarrassment.

Daphne doesn't seem exactly OK about it. It seems that she seethes with some resentment about it and tries to get back at him by sleeping with her trainer and other dudes.

Esp. among straights, but also among a lot of gays, "open relationships" often fall apart because of jealousy, esp. if one partner benefits more than the other. It's not just public embarrassment that can bring things to an end.

I was mesmerized by Harper's scene where she chewed endlessly on the slice of pineapple. You can almost hear her gears grinding.

Any chance that a combo of guilt and cocaine made her imagine it was Greg in the photo?

I don't see how anyone could look at that old photo of the Cowboy and be assured it's a younger Greg. All we saw was Tanya taking the photo in, not her recognizing Greg.

Because the photo shows the actors that play Greg and Quentin when they were younger when they younger dear r377.

r378, darling, I think Mike White has tricked you.

I agree with everyone who believes that the actress who plays Valentina is this season's MVP.

Same, R380. She's marvelously expressive. The look on her face when Isabella told her she was with Rocco said a thousand words.

[quote] I think Jack will have a fentanyl OD.

This last episode they increasingly tweeked the make-up around Jack's eyes, until by the end he looked like a cadaver.

R381, yes! Valentina is able to switch from being demonstrably, over-the-top Sicilian to such subtlety in her tics, facial expression, body language. Masterfully done.

^*demonstratively. Oh, dear me.

Jack said you have to enjoy life because you never know when it will end, sounded foreboding to me.

Valentina is a rare older actress who hasn't botoxed her face so it is still very expressive.

^She's only 38, I don't consider that old.

r386, oof I thought she was older than that

She's 54.

I checked and she is indeed 54. Born in Rome on March 29, 1968.

The actresses who play Lucia and Mia are 28 & 29, Albie actor is 32. They do look youthful though, not like Stockard Channing in Grease.

R390, how dare you!!

An annoying detail, that may or may not have any significance, was Portia's t-shirt at breakfast with Tanya. She was wearing a godfather t-shirt with a car exploding, something she claimed to know nothing about when she was dining right next to the car a few days earlier. She thought it was morbid or something, so I doubt she went out and purchased it post-Godfather discussions with the DeGrassos. I hope she gets whacked.

Haley looks like a youthful Alex Borstein.

[quote]Same, [R380]. She's marvelously expressive. The look on her face when Isabella told her she was with Rocco said a thousand words.

And Valentina thinks she is hiding her feelings.

Oh I think Portia is exactly the type of kid who would buy that tee shirt from a tourist merch shop after visiting the Godfather site. That was her takeaway on The Godfather. She probably took a lot of photos there and added them to her Insta stories.

I fucking hate Portia.

R38 I agree. She's my favorite character. I love every scene she's in. She's so superb with her expressions, both subtle and outgoing. I felt as desperately heartbroken as she appeared when she learned the clerk was engaged, and thus cancelled her birthday drink outing. We've all been there, experienced that tortuous moment when a romantic hope is destroyed in an instant. Argh, so painful!

Ok, I'll just Mary! myself out of there now.

I'm honestly hoping Portia is one of the bodies. She is truly that fucking annoying. Also I want Greg to be one of the bodies.

The two of you can sit next to me, R395 and R397

I guess Greg never left, but is slithering around Quentin's shack by the sea.

Maybe they all get Covid or at least Long Covid and live their lives with even less brain power than before.

The worst character is Matthew. What an asshole. He has anscher for everything. I heard they kill him and then they all shit in his mouth. A fitting end.

I hope it's Greg. Tanya is tedious but she deserves better than him.

Hungry people make poor shoppers, sadly.

WHO Matthew?!

Twitter seems to think Ethan is going to be the killer. I saw the symbolism of him looking at the painting and the statue head. But he seems too obvious of a choice.

I noticed when gramps walked out of the hotel they showed a statue with a guy bleeding from his head like him.

Maybe he gets depressed and throws himself off a cliff.

Spin-off for Valentina, please!

Valentina's closeups are brutal......caneface.....

I'm not sure Valentina is a lesbian in real life, r407. She's what the French call jolie-laide, or "beautiful-ugly"--one of those women you cannot stop looking at even though technically she's not at all pretty if you break down her features (much like the famous Spanish actress Rossy di Palma).

Someone as shallow and lowdown insecure as Daphne would constantly create social media content for her social media presence to show off. She would use any excuse to leave the hotel to take pictures, and film insta-stories, of fancy restaurants, clubs, landscapes, shopping sprees, etc. In the aughts, she'd be a mom blogger. And Cameron would use his social media presence to make himself look super successful (to attract new clients). You know, the stereotypical stuff like leaning against a fancy car, having a great time on a yacht, showing off his Rolex watch, etc.

Come to think of it: White hasn't featured such social media show offs and influencers in the series yet.

We need more of Jack's ass.

What if there’s no murder but an accident? Also White must be playing us with this cowboy soapy storyline. Right??

Valentina (Sabrina Impacciatore) is quite beautiful. Sure, she's ageing (54) but when she was younger, she looked a lot like Anne Hathaway. Classic structure. Just like Italy.

Don’t you mean AnnE Hathaway?

Are Mia and Lucia supposed to be the same age as Albie and Portia?

DeuxMoi posted a blind item today that season 3 will film in Japan.

If she were Spanish instead of Italian, the actress who plays Valentina would be perfect for Pedro Almodovar movies.

Sabrina is stunning. Her nose is a bit big, but the rest of her features - her hair, skin, lips and especially her eyes - are beautiful, plus the elegant bone structure.

'Jolie laide' would describe someone like Barbra Streisand.

[quote] If she were Spanish instead of Italian, the actress who plays Valentina would be perfect for Pedro Almodovar movies.

Sorry, that may go off topic, but Ferzan Özpetek (Steam: The Turkish Bath, Mine Vaganti, A Magnificent Haunting, The Goddess of Fortune) is doing great Italian movies which feature LGBT characters. Sabrina Impacciatore wasn't cast in any of his movies or TV shows either, which I think is a bit surprising.

Sabrina's performance is all the more impressive considering she had the largest shoes to fill -- Emmy-winning Murray Bartlett's turn as the resort manager. I feared at first that there were too many parallels between their personalities/story arcs, but she's taken it in a different direction.

I find her much more interesting.

Agreed, R417. Rossy de Palma, OTOH, is hard to look at.

Sabrina needs to inject fillers into her fillers and flash her cooch on tictok if she wants to stay in the game.

r415 Oh wow, a blind item, coming after the interview with White which said the next season would be in Japan (linked to in r66)? DM really is the new CDAN in posting after the fact and pretending it's insider gossip

Oh yes, r12!!! We watched this past weekend, amazing.

Barbra Srtreisand is not jolie-laide; she's laide.

R422, perhaps Mike White will make Madonna the star of next season's Japan edition? There's a story there..

After reaching a series high with last week’s episode (and the shocking sex scene in its final moments), “The White Lotus” has already reached a new personal best.

2.8 million viewers tuned into Season 2 Episode 6 of “The White Lotus” on Sunday night – this marks a 22% increase from the 2.3 million viewers who tuned into the wildly buzzy fifth episode of Season 2 the week before.

There are so many young breakout (formerly not well-known) stars from this season yet it seems like the same sort of young breakout stars from Season 1 have mostly been forgotten already. Am I wrong?

I'm going to guess that Quentin, Jack and Niccolo will die.

Maybe Greg, too. All pushed off the yacht by Tanya and Portia.

This is why the final 2 episodes should have been broadcast in one night. All this time for speculation, whether true or not, is ruining the ending.

I thought the first episode had it that hotel guests were being killed, not hangers-on.

No, when Rocco comments about the dead bodies in the water near the hotel, he'd have no way of knowing if they were hotel guests. Would he? Am I not remembering that correctly?

[quote]All this time for speculation, whether true or not, is ruining the ending.

I don't see how.

[quote]it seems like the same sort of young breakout stars from Season 1 have mostly been forgotten already. Am I wrong?

Sydney Sweeney is a huge deal now.

[quote] "with last week’s episode (and the shocking sex scene in its final moments)"

Okay, for this Variety writer perhaps, but even if you were not expecting it, are there really regular viewers of HBO programming who would find it shocking?

R433 It sounded to me like the other bodies were not necessarily found in the water.

Didn't Rocco say the other bodies had been found on the beach?

Is HBO The Butt Fucking Channel R436?

Rocco says one of the guest has drowned. Valentina tries to dismiss it as not being on hotel property. He tells her she doesn't get it, there are more bodies.

Assumption is that the other bodies are on hotel property.

If the others are not on hotel property, they are guests. He seemed clear that only one had drowned.

R439 Viewers know that some gay men engage in anal sex. Maybe if you believed they were uncle and nephew. It would actually be more shocking if they were making out.

Yes, Sydney Sweeney seems to be the one break out star from last season who's having a career.

But what's happened to the spa lady Tanya deserted, the gorgeous girl who played Sydney's friend Paula, the Hawaiian guy Paula was fucking, the boy who was the son of Steve Zahn and the guy who worked for and was fucking around with Murray B? As you can see, I don't even remember their real names but we couldn't get enough of them a year ago. They were all amazing.

It's not like White Lotus plucked Sydney Sweeney from obscurity she is a star of "Euphoria" which gets much higher ratings than this show does. But yes White Lotus definitely helped introduce her to a older audience that might not watch Euphoria.

Murray Bartlett also counts as a breakout star. He had received some attention from gay audiences for both Looking and Tales of the City, but he had not had a real mainstream success until this one.

And this made Jennifer Coolidge bigger than she had ever been before--I think this counts as her biggest success.

So three big careers were either created or hugely enhanced by White Lotus, season 1. That's not bad.

R441 It was Salvatore who tells Rocco about the other bodies. Is he the original loud-talking Beach Club guy?

He had appeared in many other things previous, but I think season one also boosted Jake Lacy's name recognition.

If Valentina was featured more it would be like Tanya, only good in small doses.

I have to say: They’re going to have to tie up a LOT of stories next week, all in one hour. The pace of this season feels a bit off.

Well, let's see:

*We have to find out who the dead bodies are, but that will undoubtedly be the centerpiece of next episode;

*We will have to have some sort of resolution regarding Tanya's and Greg's marriage (she will become either widowed or divorced);

*We have to find out the exact nature of the plot Greg and Quentin have drawn up to get their hands on Tanya's money;

*We have to have a resolution to the fling between Jack and Portia (probably at least one will die);

*We have to find out what the exact nature of Quentin's hold on Jack is and how he got Jack out of the "hole" he was in (and what that hole was);

*We need a resolution to the growing hatred Ethan feels towards Cameron;

*Audrey and Ethan have to figure out what to do with their relationship;

*We need some sort of reference to Valentina's blossoming lesbian identity;

*We need some sort of resolution for Alby's fling with Lucia.

*We need to find out if Alessio is really Lucia's imp or part of a long con;

*We need to find out about Mia's aspirations of becoming a singer.

*We need the three Chekhov's guns (of the actual gun in Niccolo's things, of the legend of the Isola Bella, and of the legend of the Moor's head) to come up again

Things we will likely not find out more about:

*Whether Alby's mother will ever forgive Dominic (which sounds unlikely);

*Any further resolution to Bert's high expectations for coming to Italy (they've already been dashed);

*The fate of Rocco and Isabella as a couple (they're not interesting enough);

*The future of Cameron and Daphne if he is not killed (they'll just remain assholes).

The only unrealistic thibg is everybody reading books

[quote] Speaking of which, I hope Portia is the one who dies because she has gotten so irritating.

Portia is what I imagine half of female NuReddit is like IRL.

[quote] The only unrealistic thibg is everybody reading books

So nicer to hear opinions from one of our sisters in WeHo!

Just realized where I recognize Meghann Fahy from, she played a psychotic stalker on One Life To Live.

R450 great list!!

I expect the finale to feel rushed, as none of the stories (safe for the hookers') intertwines, with the hotel guests not interacting with each other at all..

Adding to R450's list, we need to find out of Albie will find out if Lucia was originally hired by his dad.

I imagine when they settle the hotel bill on departure there will be a surprise at what Lucia and Mia have spent Dominic's money on.

Maybe F Murray will claim he hired the hookers to save Albie and Dominic's relationship.

R414 I read the prostitutes as being in their late 20's. Aren't Albie and Portia recent college grads?

[quote] *We need a resolution to the growing hatred Ethan feels towards Cameron;"

In the official trailer for the season there's a brief clip of Ethan and Cameron struggling in the ocean, with Cameron in a rear headlock, his head beneath the waves. I think it's safe to assume that either of both of them will be casualties.

I just finished bingeing Enlightened, and I seriously recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to watch it. The writing is very strong and the characters are well-drawn.

I predict F Murray will take a header off that cliff, but no one will know for sure if he killed himself or if it was an accident.

A lot of people had the exact complaints about S1: I guess they forgot "Too much filler!" "How are they going to tie all this up?" Probably with a bunch of weak payoffs again.

The Jack character is jarring to me because he’s like someone plucked from the likes of Love Island or random reality show with an Essex roofer trying to make it big. For people in the US, his mannerisms are pretty spot on. It’s not a caricature or OTT; it’s authentically acted. He’s from a family of actors in real life.

Don’t kill Jack - he’s hot and a West Ham fan! Good enough for me.

Natasha Rothwell (Belinda from S1) received an Emmy nomination for her performance. In fact, most of the cast did. She didn’t fade into oblivion like that weird poster upthread was implying.

The hooker says whores are always punished in the end. But they're all whores.

[quote] Just realized where I recognize Meghann Fahy from, she played a psychotic stalker on One Life To Live.

That's exactly the vibe she's given off for me since the beginning. Like a psychotic Stepford wife. Who else would tolerate a husband like Cameron except someone as psychotic and vile as he is? The only other option would be a truly submissive, meek person and that character has never been played like that.

You never know if a character is being played as written or as the actor wants. Sometimes directors either don't try or are not good at directing some actors to play to the character's storyline rather than what the actor wants - or maybe what the actor is capable of. I'm not that impressed with either her or James. They both seem more on a soap opera level of acting in this. I've never seen her before so maybe she is better in other things.

R464 and she’s been in loads of other shows including the very watchable five seasons of Insecure on HBO.

Harper: "Do you want an Ambien?"

I've got a really good friend from Essex (who now lives in Walthamstow) who is watching this season in the UK, and she says she cannot get over how good Leo Woodall is as a cocky Essex boy. She said his accent and general manner are perfect, and that even his off-key drunken rendition of "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles" (the West Ham United anthem) was done spot-on.

There have been a lot of mention of Ambien, which causes sleepwalking.

Give naked Jack an Ambien and send him my way! OI OI OI!

You can't afford me luv

Natasha Rothwell is better known for her long stint on HBO's Insecure than White Lotus. On Insecure, she started out as a staff writer before Issa Rae moved her into the main cast for the second season. I am not even sure if she considers herself an actress, to be honest. I was surprised to see her in White Lotus, but she was phenomenal, and if she wants a career in acting. she certainly be able to have one.

[quote]There have been a lot of mention of Ambien, which causes sleepwalking.

And sleepeating. I once woke up to an empty potato chip bag, turned inside out on my bedroom floor.

Now, back to our scheduled program.

I hate that the next season will be set in Japan. Thailand or Mexico would be a lot better choices. I hope it will at least be during the summer and not in the winter.

R350 I don't think we will find out what hole Jack was in, that Quentin pulled him out of. I don't think it's that important to the plot plus it's better left to imagination.

I've read somewhere that the finale will be an hour and a half long.

The scene where Jack is drunkenly singing reminded me of Cook from Skins.

Agree r476. Everything doesn't need to explained in explicit detail, we have enough backstory on Jack and Quentin if they don't give us more details.

I wonder if next season in Japan will include a scene of 2 wives disguised as geisha girls to test their husbands' fidelity?

R477 - I'm DVRing it that night, and it's listed as 80 minutes long.

Jack is more familiar with pushing into holes than being dragged out of them.

It certainly shall be interesting to see this show travel from one of the world's louder, more extroverted cultures to one of its quietest and most introverted.

There are only three Four Seasons hotels in Japan (two in Tokyo and one in Kyoto), which would seem to rule out beach settings.

R484, I hope Mike White goes with the more culturally traditional Kyoto.

I'll only watch "The White Lotus: Japan" if Godzilla is in the cast. Will he have a butt shot? A prosthetic cock? And will he hook up with Tanya, only to be rebuffed and wind up in a foursome with three headed Ghidorah and some prostitutes? C'mon Mike, stop snoozen' on the job.

We will be present, to use our song to call upon Mothra to attack the White Lotus-Kyoto!

I think it would behoove WL to go to a non-beach resort for S3 just for variety's sake.

How many more ill-fitted muu-muus can that poor costume designer be expected to find for Jennifer Coolidge?

Well, if it’s Japan, then there has to be scenes of them bathing in the hot springs in winter with the monkeys, as I mentioned earlier. Maybe even a monkey attack where one character gets their face ate.

I feel like most of the actors/actresses in season one basically playing themselves. Agree or disagree?

That question does not make sense, r490.

[quote] She said his accent and general manner are perfect,

I'm sure I would not be able to discern the finer points of an Essex accent - but Leo sounds (and behaves) pretty much the same as the sober form of his character Jack as best a I can tell, in the HBO extras where he is paired with Adam.

R466 I'm just always waiting for Daphne & Cameron's eyes to turn glossy black, together as they peel off the human faces to reveal their true reptilian, flickering fork-tongued selves.

I read that Theo James is up for James Bond. He's got such a psychopathic streak in WL; I'd love to see that in JB. But he's too handsome and magnetic-looking.

I have met people working in the CIA, the US State Department in war zones, and high level Israeli army personnel working in espionage. In every case, they were people you wouldn't notice in a crowd.

I think the only people proposing James for Bond are his agent and his female frau fans still clinging to life post-Divergent.

[quote] people you wouldn't notice in a crowd

Yeah, I think he'd make a good Bond. It's not like the 007 franchise is exactly grounded in realism.

I haven't seen him in the Divergent series, does he excel in an action role?

I'll try again; I think most of the actors/actresses In S1 were more or less playing themselves. What do you think?

I barely knew any of the cast of S1, R497, but I will concede that Jennifer Coolidge always plays Jennifer Coolidge.

R457 Portia and Albee are Gen Z for sure. I dunno about the whores. Cameron, Daphne, Harper, Ethan are Millennials.

Alexandra Daddario is a bombshell that no one really takes seriously. She also seems to be always dating up in terms of money/power. She even briefly dated Ari Melber. She just recently married an older hot shot producer. Sounds similar to her Rachel character.

There's some interesting BTS tea from someone who claims to have worked on S2. It's Deuxmoi, but sometimes they're legit.

R501 well, spill or give the link at least?

Jennifer could actually have quite a beautiful face if she lost about 100 lb. Is all that hair real, do you think?

[quote]The Jack character is jarring to me because he’s like someone plucked from the likes of Love Island or random reality show with an Essex roofer trying to make it big. For people in the US, his mannerisms are pretty spot on. It’s not a caricature or OTT; it’s authentically acted. He’s from a family of actors in real life.

Leo Woodall's father is Andrew Woodall, a recognisable actor who has been in countless big name series, but never had a breakthrough role.

The only part I can remember him in was nearly 30 years ago when played a detective in Prime Suspect 3, and his storyline involves him being bitten by a RENT BOY (child abuse victim forced into prostitution) who then dies of AIDS, and who I think was played by Danny Dyer.

Am I the only one who feels the dialogue this season is a little flat? Unless that's point.

Apart from his body, I really cannot see the appeal of Will Sharpe. His eyes are very small and close together, he has no facial bone structure to speak of, ridiculous hairdo covering comical protruding ears, and small, un-sensuous lips.

Looks-wise, he and Aubrey Plaza are well-matched.

Agree, 505. Almost all dialogue sounds like filler, despite the actors trying to work their hammy lines.

r492 Agreed, it doesn't feel like he's particularly stretching himself as an actor.

r502 Since r501 didn't...

Interesting interview with Will Sharpe:

Sharpe's character would be more sympathetic if he was a better actor.

The finale will need to be stronger than the penultimate episode.

[quote] if he was a better actor.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

I just don't get these comments criticizing Sharpe's performance. He's playing the role of a repressed and shy young husband and tech entrepreneur very believably and, for me at least, very sympathetically. His American accent is impeccable.

What do you think is missing in his portrayal, r510?

Sharpe is terrific so far, especially after last episode when he started to manifest his rage and jealousy towards Ethan.

Agree that Sharpe does very well, and never in a thousand years would I have guessed that he's British.

R266 If you thought Mike White sounded a bit scattered on Fresh Air, in this interview he seems a mess. Exhausting to listen to.

R515 Who is that wizened crone interviewing him?

I can't imagine anyone giving him money to make anything. He seems like a demented 12 year old girl.

Writers can often be strange, eccentric people -- Mike White is possibly no exception.

All of Mike's actors from both seasons go on and on in interviews about how much they respect him and it sounds like they would do anything for him. Even someone like Michael Imperioli who I'd think would be a bit reserved about those feelings. And I'm sure hundreds of great actors are already begging their agents and managers to get them on S3 to work with Mike. HBO is falling all over themselves for him.

So what if he's a bit inarticulate in interviews? He's clearly doing something right. Uh, we're about to begin Thread 6 before the season finale even begins! How many current miniseries or films can boast that much discussion here?

True R519, but one poster, DARKGEMINILORD, or some obnoxious asshole, posted hundreds of times, weirdly regurgitating plot points and attacking anyone who had anything else to say. He seems to have gotten quiet lately, or at least stealth posting as anonymous. And yeah, good show, strong writing, a wide assortment of interesting characters, and an alluring location. Consistently entertaining and as good or maybe better than Season1.

[quote] The only unrealistic thing is everybody reading books

I'd believe that Harper is a book reader. In episode one she's working on a novel entitled Lost Children Archive. I just checked the ebook out from the library, looks good.

I think an astute observation here is people on vacations, who don't normally read much, bring books with them (or buy them at airports), though rarely get very far reading them. Nice prop with the beach chair, though.

I think an astute observation here is people on vacations, who don't normally read much, bring books with them (or buy them at airports), though rarely get very far reading them. Nice prop with the beach chair, though.

I keep trying to see which books the characters are reading--I thought they were hiding the titles , so i'm impressed you figured out what Harper was reading, r521.

R523 Enough to post your astuteness twice apparently.

I usually take my props to bed, even on vacation. Do a lot of reading in bed.

I just checked on-line, r521, and you're correct about Harper's book.

Ethan is apparently reading a book called "Everything is Fucked" (appropriately to his character and this series), by Mark Manson, the author of "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck."

Cameron is reading a comic thriller by Anthony Bourdain called "Gone Bamboo."

Albie is reading a non-fiction book called "The Architecture of Closed Worlds" by Lydia Callipolitti, which is about environments that are meant to be self-contained (appropriate again for this series).

Lucia was also reading a book in one scene by the pool, but no one seems to have figured its title out yet (it must be in Italian).

Criminal that Adam DiMarco hasn't tapped the ass on Leo Woodall.

I read Manson's "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck" and it was funny how obvious it was throughout the book the author very, very, very much did indeed 'give a fuck'. Godawful book, just another crap book in the self-help genre.

If season 3 has indeed to be set in Japan then choice could be made to carry Will Sharpe’s Ethan character over to maintain the continuity trend, rather than Jennifer Coolidge’s Tanya. Sharpe is part Japanese and speaks the language fluently.

That’s my personal pet theory—each season of white lotus will have one character continue from the previous season, but it won’t always be Tanya.

Ewwwww- Tanya getting her titties touched and her snatch eaten out is just gross!!!

Calling ethan or Cameron dead

I think maybe Portia is one of them. She's already suspicious but finds out what Jack and Quentin are going to do. So they kill her. (Just a theory; I don't know anything.)

My death list: Portia, Ethan and Harper.

Looks like Jennifer is getting nominations once again. But I agree everyone in the cast are excellent and perhaps would get a nomination for best cast or something.

If the show keeps some of the themes of the previous season, "the help" (like Portia) is going to be collateral damage, like dead, fired, heart broken, humiliated, stranded, or something like that.

But I think White will mix it up a bit and some of the rich folk will die, like Bert.

Tom Hollander has been magnificent during his limited screentime.

Which one of you bitches is going to start a thread “X is Dead to Me!” each time a character who is dead in the finale is revealed?

I love Tom Hollander but he was required to do nothing he couldn't have done in his sleep. Including his fucking scene.

Hollander’s wearing wool caps doing promo interviews, maybe because he’s shaved his head for the Capote miniseries.

Jack, Quinten, some of Quinten’s crew, and Bert are my death guesses.

Maybe Greg if he comes back.

R541 Are they hotel guests?

R542, Jack is one of the hotel's best mattresses. Everybody [italic]knows[/italic] him at the hotel!

R541, I don't think that Greg ever left. He's probably hiding out somewhere in one of the many rooms at Quentin's villa.

We need at least one more sex scene with Jack to make the finale worthwhile.

So is Greg really the straight cowboy that Quentin has fallen in love her and would do anything for him? Or is he gay, and Quentin and him are a couple? Wouldn't make a lot of sense since Quentin was being fucked by Jack.

Greg isn’t gay. He’s using Quentin to do his dirty work involving Tanya.

I’m pretty sure. Guess we’ll find out tomorrow. can’t wait!

I don't remember this level of suspense happening after the penultimate episode of Season 1.

Maybe Daphne ends up being a good schemer and gets rid of her husband?

I said this in another thread and I see somebody above said it too. It would be par for this show to have Portia get killed because of Tanya, the poor and working class end up paying and Tanya keeps blithely moving on.

^^Then why are you saying it again?

The actor who plays Ethan is part Japanese, will he be in the next season?

r551 because I didn't explain why I thought it would be Portia

Will some enterprising FAG please start a new thread?

Thanks.

While the cast is talented, the only ones I could see being nominated for Emmy's are Aubrey Plaza and F. Murray Abraham (unless they just randomly nominate everyone like last time).

Jennifer is not deserving of an Emmy nod for this season. She's played out Tanya and her acting is either bad or campy.

R555, I'd say Sabrina (Valentina) deserves an Emmy nom.

A lot of Harper fans, I can see Aubrey Plaza getting nominated

I would bet money Bert dies while having sex with Lucia.

^^^ I hope Bert goes out with a bang!

Despite, and possibly because of all her flaws, Tanya is a survivor.

It would be great for the actress who plays Valentina to get some awards recognition but did they ever write her a meaty enough scene to submit for her? She has lots of great quick moments but not so many big scenes.

I am gonna be ticked if the resolution is Greg and Quentin teaming up to defraud kill Tanya. Like others said, it's way too damned soapy. With that said, I have a sneaking suspicion it's not going to go down so succinctly. I don't remember exactly, but when Quentin was retelling the story of the Cowboy/Greg, I believe he mentioned he was infatuated with him but he never had him because he was straight and then got old. I'm thinking there's a revenge scheme in Quentin against Greg involving Tanya.

Ok I love Haley Lu even more now. She twerked on the set of the Today show, even after the hosts told her it’s a morning show & to stop!

She reminds me of Zoey Deutch.

Agreed, R555, but there IS one more episode for her to showcase her talent.

Well, tonight's the night, bitches!!

Who's to say Quentin didn't make up the story of the Cowboy and planted the photo-shopped photo of him and young Greg to spook out Tanya?

Nah. Greg’s up to something. He’s in cahoots with Quentin. It is definitely possible that Quentin will double cross Greg because he’s tired of being in love/used by him and both he and Greg will die.

The gun Niccollo had will be used to kill someone.

No way Tanya is dying.

I didn't say Greg wasn't in cahoots with Quentin, r568.

R567 I think the picture is a genuine snapshot, but I can definitely see Quentin turning on Greg.

That is, if there’s anything nefarious going on between the two, at all!

I don’t buy the whole encounter scene with Bert and family. If Bert’s mother left Italy, then why doesn’t Bert speak Italian? First generation folks are almost always bilingual. The mothers rarely learn more than rudimentary English, so would have spoken Italian at home. Also, as an earlier post said, why did they use the app once to translate, but not more? Poor writing/plotting.

Enjoying the show, but the acting is really bad. Will Sharpe can’t act, not sure Portia can either. Jennifer Coolidge is cringe. Can’t blame it all on the writing.

Last trailer showed Ethan holding Cameron underwater. I'm guessing Cameron gets back up and holds Ethan underwater and kills him. Cameron swims away.

The other deaths. I don't know.

Speaking of Hollander seen wearing a wool cap in promos, did anyone else notice that in some scenes (and in a few photos I found online) his head seems to be growing taller/longer as he ages?

My goddess but at one point I instantly thought of Frankenstein!

Trust me... It's not a good look for Hollander!!

White apparently did some sort of family history tour with his dad to Norway which inspired the 3 generation family's trip. My guess is that it's either the awkward homage to finding one's roots gratuitously tossed in by White or else it is a seemingly convoluted part of the conclusion---maybe teh whores are family, maybe there was a curse on the emigrants that leads to someone's death, etc.

Killing off Greg would mean that nay other character could come back for another installment and killing off such a minor, marginal charachter leaves open more options.

I agree with R555: Coolidge is just annoying here. She's White's friend, but she isn't given much to work with and she is, as far as I'm concerned, someone best taken in small does, anyway.

^^^ And here is Hollander for comparative purposes...

R535 I nominate the whites of Aubrey Plaza's eyes for an acting award. They alone are more emotive than much of the cast.

Is she really gay or is she using at as an umbrella term?

The actress isn't gay, she talked about going on vacation with a boyfriend while being in love with another man.

R578 Can you post a link to that interview? Why is she calling herself gay, then? Makes no sense.

Tim Holland's Day in the Life feature made me fall in love. Find the whole article if you can.

[quote]Find the whole article if you can.

Here.

I assume you did mean Tom Hollander.

R597 At 3:05 here.

R582 Thanks. Random that she calls herself gay then.

Yeah, I don't know, some women can get weird with identification to 'relate' or it's a language miscommunication, I don't know, but at minimum she'd have to be bi. Doesn't ping as into women to me really.

I've posted this before, so will relentlessly post it again, being old and confused:

The ceramic heads, the duplicitous Moor who lied about another family and was decapitated by the Sicilian woman he lied to, the Sicilian women at the family homestead swinging a knife at their "relatives", the "unfaithful" guests at the hotel (all of them except Albie, right?): Greg's balcony conversation that Tanya overhears "I'll be there soon, I love you..."

Tanya finds out Greg has another woman (and family?) and works with Quentin (and his criminal connections) to Greg him. Ceramic heads completing their plot-bound destiny.

Is Will Sharpe's actual British accent sexy or does he sound like the working class Essex character?

Most British performers, when they do an American accent, the actual sound of their real voice changes in the extreme. Tilda Swinton is great at American accents.

My theory is that, yes, Greg is in cahoots with Quentin - they go way back - it is him in the picture - and Tanya has been set up (sort of) - BUT - we're led to believe it's nefarious and they intend on killing her. I think that's the twist. It's NOT nefarious, it's something being done out of love. I watched the entire 6 episodes again. It appears to me that Quentin is genuinely fond of Tanya, and Greg - although possibly not in love with her - is genuinely grateful she saved his life. They are not intending on doing any harm to her.

I feel like this show would be truly amazing f they really fleshed out the characters and gave them better resolutions. When I say "better resolutions", I don't mean crowd pleasing payoffs, just something with a little more bite.

R585 While the audience hears that bit of Greg's call, I don't think it's implied that Tanya does, through the exterior door. Although she definitely is growing suspicious.

Agreed, r589. Tanya did not hear Greg's phone conversation.

Here's a link to a new thread for when this one runs out

[quote] Well tonight's the night, bitches!!

If I'm streaming the finale in PST, do I really want to start watching as early as 6pm, or stay off this thread for a full 6+ hours to avoid spoilers? Such a quandry.

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JUSTICE FOR ARMOND

For some reason, my HBO On Demand doesn't have last week's episode listed.

I rebooted both my cable boxes, twice, thinking that was the problem, but the last episode listed was still the one at the winery.

Anyone else having a problem with the HBO On Demand function?