Sitcom Spinoffs- Did They Want To Go?

I can answer this.

When you think about it, Valerie Harper had a good thing going. As the “fat” wisecracking Jewish girl, she was no threat to MTM. She comes on, rips off a few self-deprecating jokes and builds a great legacy character. Her leaving the show left Mary without a gal pal.

It’s widely known that Isabel Sanford was forced into the Jeffersons by Lear. She was basically told AITF was no longer an option.

Did she not want her own show, r3?

The Mary Tyler Moore Show produced quite a few spin offs. "Rhoda" would have been a continuing success if she and Joe had not split up in the 3rd season. After that the ratings fell and the show was cancelled after 4 and a half years. If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it!!

Nancy Walker was very popular on the "Rhoda" show and got her own series. The first one was a bomb so they immediately gave her another series and it was an even bigger bomb. If you are going to give a popular character her own series at least have a well thought out, sensible script worked out.

They didn't give a popular character her own series. Nancy was a brand new character in her show.

I felt bad for The Ropers. They had a good thing, took a shot, and it blew up in their faces. Then they couldn't come back to the mothership because Don Knotts was so good.

[quote] "Rhoda" would have been a continuing success if she and Joe had not split up in the 3rd season.

Yes. The problem with Rhoda was that she got married too soon. I get that they didn’t want another MTM career girl sitcom, but once she married Joe, the show flopped.

Yes, but Valerie wound up winning a lead actress Emmy for Rhoda and the show also ran 2 seasons longer than MTM, so it was the right choice for Val.

R7 You don't get it!! The scripts of her 2 series were terrible!!

I do get it, dear. You said...

[quote] If you are going to give a popular character her own series at least have a well thought out, sensible script worked out.

They did not spin Ida Morgenstern off into her own series. Nancy played different characters in both her subsequent series.

[quote]Nancy played different characters in both her subsequent series.

And I bet they both acted like...Nancy Walker.

It worked out well for Benson!

Harper had said she didn't want to leave MTMS. She loved it there - said she had the time of her life playing sidekick 'Rhoda'. But CBS told her it was 'now or never', and if she didn't take her own show then (1974) they would be writing her off TMTMS eventually, because they needed to bring in new characters. Mary promised her if 'Rhoda' was canceled, she could come back to MTMS. And Nancy Walker talked her into it - Walker sat her down and asked if she was crazy. She told Harper she'd never get an offer like this again.

One thing CBS did realize was that Walker was a second-banana, and she would never carry her own show. So they never spun her off. ABC didn't realize this, and offered Walker her own series (as mentioned above) and when that failed, they tried again. They insisted they could make her a star of her own sitcom. When they realized she couldn't do it, they let her go. And back to 'Rhoda' she went.

Marla Gibbs was smart and got it placed in her contract before doing Checking In that if the show failed, she could go back to The Jeffersons.

Flo.

It's a damned shame Polly Holliday never returned to ALICE because that show was never as entertaining without her.

Then again, Flo failing in Texas and returning to Phoenix to toil in Mel's Diner would've been damned depressing.

Flo

Joey

I am the only person alive who liked Blansky's Beauties.

Cloris Leachman wanted to go off on her own, but she said her sitcom was beset with problems from day one, and the problems got worse as the two seasons went on. When her show was canceled, it aired the last episode within days of TMTMS airing it's last episode - so she couldn't go back there.

After 'Phyllis' ended, there were actual plans - and even a script written out - where 'Phyllis' was stranded in Manhattan for a weekend, and ends up staying with Rhoda in the beginning of Rhoda's fourth season. The two women end up airing their differences of why they don't like each other (over a few bottles of wine) and end the show 'cordial' to each other. The network wanted to see how the ratings were, and if they were encouraging, they wanted Cloris to join 'Rhoda' as a second banana - with her moving to NYC and into Rhoda's apartment building. However, the show never filmed - Leachman said she didn't want to go back to being second banana after starring in her own sitcom. So she said 'farewell' to her 'Phyllis' character.

What is it called when an actor leaves a police procedural and then ends up on another police procedural (looking at you David Caruso amd Kim Delaney). Or when an actor leaves a show and then comes back to the same show (Sherry Stringfield, Noah Wyle).

Don't blame me.

We do blame you, Linda.

Don't blame me, just watch me:

Valerie Harper was offered a spinoff during the first season of MTM but as stated above she didn't want to go until she had done some time on MTM and was guaranteed by Mary she could return if the new show flopped.

Norman Fell didn't want to do The Ropers. He said that Audra really wanted to do it. He was given a deal that if the show didn't last a season, he could go back to Three's Company. That piece of crap show lasted a season and a half, so he was fucked.

How could The Ropers be any worse than Three's Company? I remember liking the show as a kid.

[quote]Yes, but Valerie wound up winning a lead actress Emmy for Rhoda and the show also ran 2 seasons longer than MTM, so it was the right choice for Val.

No.

Rhoda: 5 seasons, 109 episodes

MTM: 7 seasons, 168 episodes

I think the person meant that MTM was over and Rhoda still going so Valerie ended up with 2 more years of employment had she stayed on MTM.

r31 MTM ended in 1977; Rhoda ended in 1978.

ABC had plans to spin off Jm J. Bullock's character Monroe from Too Close for Comfort when the show was very successful on Tuesdays. However, the ratings tanked for TCFC when ABC moved it from Tuesday to Thursday to anchor their Thursday lineup and barely lasted the season before being picked up for first run syndication. So the plans for the spinoff were abandoned.

I think the successful spin-offs surrounded the spun-off character(s) with a really strong supporting cast. In the case of the Ropers and Phyllis and Flor, there was just no supporting cast to back up the lead.

I do feel bad for Audra Lindley and Norman Fell. I don't know why Three's Company just didn't add them as neighbours. I think they would have mixed well with Don Knotts/Mr. Furley.

And it would have been a good distraction from the Somers drama.

[quote] I think the person meant that MTM was over and Rhoda still going so Valerie ended up with 2 more years of employment had she stayed on MTM.

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

[quote] MTM ended in 1977; Rhoda ended in 1978.

MTM ended at the end of the 1976-77 season. Rhoda went on for two more seasons (though its final season was not a full pickup.

And, r34, sometimes a supporting character should remain a supporting character.

I would assume that Frasier is the most successful spinoff ever.

Didn't the Ropers make an appearance on Three's Company after their show was cancelled?

Wasn't there talk of Fred and Ethel being spun off from I Love Lucy?

[quote] I would assume that Frasier is the most successful spinoff ever.

Nope. Law & Order SVU, followed by Knots Landing.

I remember reading somewhere that Katherine Helmond was glad that a Mona-centric spinoff from Who's the Boss? didn't pan out (although she was obligated to appear in the backdoor pilot), since this was during WTB?'s run and she saw what happened to Soap once Benson left.

By what metrics are you measuring success of spin offs? I would think that the Simpsons Has to be up there

Oh, I always forget the Simpsons was a spin-off. You are correct.

Is it actually considered a spin off if they original show completed before the soun off started? Thinking of the Joey spin off after Friends.

Not sitcoms but I always think it's funny how Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place, Models Inc, new 90210 and new Melrose Place all exist in the same universe

So those early self contained family drama everyday problems 90210 episodes like Brenda learning how to drive exist in the same universe of say crazy Kimberly plotting to murder a dozen people at Melrose Place and blowing up the building.....

Melrose was a spin off of sorts of 90210 because Kelly dated Jake but after two crossover appearances or something he was too old for her. So she resumed fucking all her friends in Beverly Hills.

The Colbys. I know it's not a sitcom, but BEST SPINOFF EVER!

R45 it was the first three episodes of Melrose Place, she and Donna and David and Steve were on

Later in 1998, Aaron Spelling offered Tiffani Amber Theissen (Valerie on 90210), a significant amount of money to bring her 90210 character to Melrose Place but she turned him down

So the shows were still connected somewhat, I know that they did casting together , many actors didn't know if they were reading for 90210 or Melrose as they casted them together

Flo was cursed by having Joyce Bulifant as a regular.

The Lou Grant character spinning off to an hour-long drama was odd to me.

I couldn’t get into it, though it was supposed to be very good.

Rumour back in the day is that Jack and Karen were supposed to be spun off from 'Will and Grace'. That would've torpedoed both shows. And imagine all the stunt casting on 'Jack & Karen'.

There's basically two kinds of spin-offs: Taking an established, beloved character off the mothership and into their own (a la Florida Evans from Maude) or introducing a brand new character in a back-door pilot (such as Laverne & Shirley and, as it happens, Maude). And to answer R43, I would say yes -- spinning off a character from a completed series is still a spin off.

'Facts of Life'--which itself was a spin-off of 'Diff'rent Strokes'--tried to spawn x3 failed spin-offs. The one about the boys' military academy, the one where Natalie moved to the big city at the end of the series (I think David Spade was in it), and then Lisa Whelchel begging for a spin-off in which she bought Eastland and became the headmistress.

'227' also tried to spin-off Sandra (link below).

[quote] Did she not want her own show,

There’s a lot more work when you have your own show. On All in the Family, Isabel Sanford was a working actress not responsible for the publicity of the show. On The Jeffersons, she would have to make the rounds of talk shows, kissing up to sponsors and publicity events.

Also, I’m not sure how far things went or how deals were negotiated, but Jean Stapleton said her contract required her to develop other shows for the network. That’s how she started playing Eleanor Roosevelt. Maybe Isabel Sanford didn’t want to get into all of that.

I couldn't see Isabel Sanfords as Eleanor Roosevelt.

When you're #1 on the call sheet you're usually in every scene or almost every scene. As said above, you are responsible for promotion and ultimately the success or failure of the show is all on you. If the show fails, people are not going to know that there were writing problems or other behind the scenes issues, they're just going to know that Polly Holliday's sitcom failed.

Also, actors like to mix it up. When you take on the lead in a series, you risk being typecast and associated with that part forever.

Valerie Harper had told CBS that the 1978-79 season was her last season of 'Rhoda', which is why they focused on Brenda as the episodes went on. They were to marry her off and give her a spin-off (along with Nancy Walker going with her) as a mid-season replacement. If it worked, she had her own show with her new husband 'Benny' and her mother 'Ida' (I think they were to relocate to Buffalo, NY if IIRC). Yet that didn't happen as the show was canceled before it got into her wedding.

When Bonnie Franklin told the network the 9th Season was the last for her on 'One Day At A Time', CBS attempted two spin-offs. As the season progressed, the focus was on Barbara, Mark, Max and 'Grandma Romano' (who filled the gap Mackenzie Phillips left) living in one house with their own storylines. 'Ann' and 'Schneider' were making cameo appearances in those episodes, so the focus stayed on the 'new family'. Valerie Bertinelli didn't think the show was working without Philips, and decided she would leave with Franklin at the end of the season.

CBS then did a 'back-door pilot' for Pat Harrington as 'Schneider' in the very last episode. He learns his estranged brother has died in another state, and his niece and nephew are orphaned. Schneider drives out of state to check on them, and in the end decides he will raise them as his own (one kid was played by Corey Feldman) and that would be the set-up for the new show which was to start in September, 1984. However the ratings were disappointing for that episode, and CBS scrapped their plans to spin him off (but it did bring closure to his character).

[quote] I couldn't see Isabel Sanfords as Eleanor Roosevelt.

Isabel was a pioneer in the struggle for diversity casting. Her Eleanor would have symbolized a woman not feeling comfortable in her own skin. It would have been Isabel’s Emmy.

Isabel got an Emmy for The Jeffersons. Not too sure why, but she did.

[quote] Isabel got an Emmy for The Jeffersons. Not too sure why, but she did.

Her acting was superb. Everyone knew George Jefferson was a flaming queen, bossy bottom. She had to pretend that hers was not a bearding marriage. Why do you think she spent so much time at the Help Center?

4 spin off attempts, R52- don't forget Natalie's (or was it Tootie's) relatives that they visit who are an interracial couple. One half of the couple was Macguyver. I forget the particulars of the episode because it was dire.

It was all set for "Aunt Viv", but Will Smith had it squashed. I confronted him and he slapped me across the parking lot.

Cheers spun off the Tortellis. Nick was an extremely unlikable character, and Jean Kasem was like nails on a chalkboard. Who the fuck thought THAT would work?

R54, if Tootie Ramsay could play Eleanor, then Isabel Sanford would've won an Emmy for it.

Good tea, R22. I'm a big fan and I never knew that.

It's a pity Leachman refused the offer, because she and Harper had dynamite chemistry and Phyllis would've been a awesome frenemy/ foil to Rhoda.

I couldn't see Cloris even entertaining the idea of being a supporting character on a show called "Rhoda," much less agreeing to it. Ego-wise, that would've been a huge comedown after starring on her own (failed) series, especially given the fact that she had an academy award.

If Gary Morton talks you out of a decision then, By God, Nancy Walker will talk you into one!

[quote] I couldn't see Cloris even entertaining the idea of being a supporting character on a show called "Rhoda," much less agreeing to it. Ego-wise, that would've been a huge comedown after starring on her own (failed) series, especially given the fact that she had an academy award.

Which is why she probavly said 'no' at the end. I wonder if she said yes at first (she had to have agreed for a script to be written and the filming to be put on the calendar) because the offer was good ? A big paycheck for a rather easy job,

The script was available online for a while (I believe the episode was to film in August, 1977) and it was just 'okay' in my opinion (as a fan of 'Rhoda' and 'Phyllis'). I think it was missing something - something in the dialog between the two characters. Maybe Leachman thought it was easy enough to score a big paycheck for little work ? Then she came to her senses after reading the script.

Nancy Walker is one of those golden age people whose appeal, at any and every point in her career, completely escapes me.

Beyond being not much to look at--even in her young MGM days--she's not (to my ear) the great singer, swing/jazz singer, or song interpretress that others claim she is. Yes, I've listened to her "I'm Still Here". Yes, I've listened to the "I Hate Men" album and mainly it sounds like she has intonation problems. Yes, I've seen "Rhoda" and the Sullivan clips from "Do Re Mi". She's particularly grating on "Family Affair."

More than that, I've never found her more than intermittently funny.

Most of the artists from that era, even if I don't like them, I at least understand their popularity. Why Walker's gifts are so celebrated remains a mystery to me.

Walker always claimed was one of the four finalists for the original Broadway production of "Funny Girl" . Anne Bancroft, Carol Burnett and Streisand were all in the running with her. She said that she lost the part because of her height - the producers thought she would be 'lost' on the stage when the rest of the cast surrounded her - that's the only reason (she claims) she wasn't hired. (Anne Bancroft wasn't interested in the end, and Burnett claimed the producers said she wasn't convincing as being 'Jewish').

May your sauce never stick to your pasta, R68!

I think Rhoda and Phyllis needed Mary to be the "normal" character in their relationship. Mary centered them. That's why the dynamic between the three was gold on MTM. Without Mary in the mix, I think that dynamic would've been off. Imagine a show built around Elaine Benes and George Costannza. Would the chemistry have been there without Jerry in the mix? This is kind of why a show like The Ropers didn't work. Aside from the fact that it was godawful, the two funny supporting characters from 3's Company just weren't interesting enough to carry a series without the Jack/Janet/Chrissy dynamic.

Lucie Arnaz almost got her own show as a spin-off from "Here's Lucy". It was her mother's pitch to CBS. Her son Desi had left after the third season (to start a movie career) so Lucy thought it would be best if her daughter left the series after season 4 and she would bring back her friend Vivan Vance to 'fill the gap' on the remaining seasons.

There was the last episode of the fourth season where daughter "Kim" and her 'friend 'Sue' (played by actress Susan Tolsky) moved out to their own apartment. It was an apartment building which was owned by Lucy's brother 'Herb' (played by Alan Oppenheimer). The title of the episode was "Kim Finally Cuts You-Know-Whose Apron Strings". 'Uncle Herb' was over-protective of his niece, 'Kim' and that's where the comedy came in. The new series was titled 'The Lucie Arnaz Show' and was to premiere in September, 1972.

CBS was not impressed with the episode nor the ratings, and dropped plans to give Arnaz her own series. Plus, Vivian Vance was diagnosed with breast cancer at the same time and suffered a slight stroke - so she wouldn't be joining Lucy's show for the 1972-73 season. Lucie Arnaz stayed with her mother's show until the last season, 1973 -74. She did star in a short-lives series titled 'The Lucie Arnaz Show' in 1985, but it had nothing to do with this spin-off from 1972.

Stop trying to make Lucie Arnaz happen. Desi Jr. had all the looks, charisma, and talent. All Lucie had was the last name.

Clo Leachman was a movie actress. When she did Mary Tyler Moore Show, it was a step down but it got her her own tv show. To have to step down a second time, to Rhoda no less, was too much!

-signed Cindy Williams, who gave up a nice movie career to step down to the Marshall TV Mafia family and eventually a Saturday morning cartoon being bossed around by a pig.

[quote]Marla Gibbs was smart and got it placed in her contract before doing Checking In that if the show failed, she could go back to The Jeffersons.

Charlotte Rae did the same with Facts of Life/Diff'rent Strokes.

If Cloris had joined, they would've had to rename the show "Rhoda and Phyllis." Now I wonder if their appearance on the last MTM Show was just an excuse to test to see if they still had chemistry to warrant Cloris joining "Rhoda."

I doubt they would rename the show 'Rhoda and Phyllis'. She wasn't going to be credited as a costar, but as a supporting actress (like Julie Kavner, Nancy Walker, Ron Silver, etc.) It was still Harper's show, as she was the star.

Yet you make a good observation about their last appearance on TMTMS in March, 1977. They were great in that episode together even though a few years had gone by; they didn't miss a beat. I wonder if the writers for 'Rhoda' did use that as a test to go further ?

Speaking of reunions and spin-offs - the horrible "Mary And Rhoda" television movie which aired in 2000 was one of the biggest mistakes in TV history. To think ABC was entertaining the idea to use that as a pilot for a weekly series. Thank God the reaction to that movie was horrible enough for ABC to cancel those plans.

If you want to talk spins offs, don't forget that the Andy Griffith Show was a spin-off of the Danny Thomas Show. The Andy Taylor character first appeared on an episode of Danny Thomas. Reaction was positive so CBS greenlit the series.

Likewise, Andy Griffith Show begat two spin offis -- Gomer Pyle USMC and Mayberry RFD.

R78 TAGS was more of a back-door pilot than a spinoff, and Mayberry RFD was kind of a continuation. You could say that Green Acres was a spinoff of Petticoat Junction, however.

Being a sitcom star has totally more perks than being a secondary character. The money, the dressing room, the assistants. Studio sends a limo to pick you up. You become special.

R30 You do realize that Joey premiered after Friends final season.

And then there are supporting characters who become the show. They aren't spun off because they get so popular the show is essentially retooled with them as the star. See Steve Urkel.

From Wikipedia:

n 1986, distributor D. L. Taffner revealed its plans for a spin-off of The Ropers called Three Apartments. The spin-off would again star Fell and Lindley, this time as landlords of a three-unit apartment building. The show was offered as either a two-year, 44-episode package in syndication starting April 1987, or as a 52-episode package on NBC-owned station checkerboards beginning in September 1987. Guest stars would include John Ritter, Joyce DeWitt, Richard Kline and Don Knotts from Three's Company; Robert Mandan from Three's a Crowd; and Jim J. Bullock and Nancy Dussault from Too Close for Comfort/The Ted Knight Show. Three Apartments was to replace The Ted Knight Show, a fellow Taffner-distributed show that ended production after the death of show namesake Ted Knight in August 1986. The spin-off was withdrawn in January 1987 because of a glut of syndicated sitcom offerings, a lack of time slots, and a difficult advertising market.

Too bad, this could've been fun

It's surprising to me that one of the most popular, lucrative, and long-running shows in TV history never had any spin-offs: The Simpsons.

Yes, I know the show itself spun-off from Tracey Ullman, and yes, The Simpsons did a fairly funny tongue-in-cheek parody of spin-offs in one episode suggesting three terrible ideas. But still, no "Odd Couple"-like spin-off with bachelors Ned Flanders and Kirk Van Houten?

R84, Futurama???

Not a sitcom, but Knots Landing was contemplating spinning off Kenny and Ginger Ward into their own series, with the record business as the background, in the 4th season, but it never got off the ground. Apparently Kim Lankford was gung ho about it, but Jim Houghton didn't want to do it. There was also talk of a one-off summer spin-off from Knots focusing on the younger actors--Nicolette Sheridan, Pat Peterson, Tonya Crowe, and Peter Reckell, but that never went anywhere.

Happy Days was actually technically a spin-off from Love, American Style.

The obvious shows like Better Call Saul and Fraser where the stars likely wanted to go.

Family Matters ran for longer than Perfect Strangers where Harriette Winslow originated.

It's funny when you get a show like Angel where Boreanaz, who was a nobody when he was cast on Buffy, likely lept at the chance, but grew fat and bored so quickly that he wanted to quit (the terrible writing near the end didn't help).

"Gloria" (1982) was a spin-off from 'All In The Family'. The pilot show, which had a cameo appearance by Carroll O'Connor in which he drove his daughter and grandson off to her new employer 'Dr. Adams', was instead aired as a 'back door piliot' on the very last episode of 'Archie Bunker's Place' (a spinoof from 'All In The Family') in it's third season. It was titled "Gloria: The First Day". 'Gloria' was supposed to be written by the writers of ABP, as well as O'Connor's close friend and ABP producer, Joe Gannon - the same team who write the pilot. However, they were dropped for the series and replaced by two former writers for 'WKRP In Cincinatti'. The show also moved production from CBS Studios to Universal Studios. Norman Lear, who created 'AITF' and had a hand in all the spin-offs including 'ABP' was 'shut out' of all production of this new spin-off.

According to Struthers, these two major changes did not sit well with O'Connor, and he vowed never to make any more appearances on 'Gloria', nor was Struthers ever to make any guest appearances on 'ABP'. When the series premiered in September, 1982, a new 'pilot' aired without O'Connor or his involvement and was titled simply "The First Day". The show also introduced a black dog on the show, which his grandson Joey adopts and names "Archie". Supposedly, O'Connor was upset with this, as well. The show tanked in the ratings, and was canceled in the Spring of 1983 after one season of 20 episodes. That same week, CBS pulled the plug on 'ABP', too.

You do know Nancy Walker was also a regular character on McMillan & Wife during the same time she was on Rhoda, etc

Julie Kavner is still laughing all the way to the back with her 'The Simpsons' earnings. People back then thought voiceover work was a joke, but so many people have made bank from it.

Nancy Walker was a Broadway baby.

Backdoor pilots such as Natalie and Tootie going to visit the uncle in a mixed-race marriage are always painful, because you have the normal awkwardness of a pilot trying to find its footing compounded by having a contrived reason for regulars of the series to interact with them. Hey - its the neighbors we have never seen before but act like they are long time friends... I remember the Brady Bunch doing one with Ken Berry as part of a young couple finding themselves adopting three kids with three different races.

Was Maude a backdoor pilot, or was Bea Arthur on more than one episode of All in the Family? Same for Empty Nest, were they around for a bit before they were spun off the Golden Girls?

I like Isabel Sanford and have no problem with her winning an Emmy, although her character was better on All in the Family and the early Jefferson years when she was more common sense, salt of the earth and not some rich empty nester trying find meaning by working at the Center. She went from having a great deadpan delivery to being a bit over-the-top. Mother Jefferson was also a great foil for her and helped keep the character more grounded.

I remember that the kirk Cameron show had a spinoff that was fairly successful. Just the ten of us or something.

I never got my spin-off from 'The Golden Girls'. Or was it 'Empty Nest'? Who the fuck cares...I have my EGOT.

[quote]When Bonnie Franklin told the network the 9th Season was the last for her on 'One Day At A Time', CBS attempted two spin-offs. As the season progressed, the focus was on Barbara, Mark, Max and 'Grandma Romano' (who filled the gap Mackenzie Phillips left) living in one house with their own storylines. 'Ann' and 'Schneider' were making cameo appearances in those episodes, so the focus stayed on the 'new family'. Valerie Bertinelli didn't think the show was working without Philips, and decided she would leave with Franklin at the end of the season.

Valerie seems very disconnected and unhappy in many of the season 9 episodes. (Most noticeably in the finale). In her book, she wrote about initially being mad that Bonnie decided to leave, because Valerie herself wanted to take a year off and then come back to doing the show.

Plus, I don't think Boyd and her got along to begin with. He NEVER talks about his time on the show, and when they did a reunion two years back hosted and developed by one of his Broadway friends, he still couldn't be bothered to put in an appearance.

I remember being incredibly annoyed when married with children aired the pilot for that stupid top of the heap show.

I don't really remember "Flo", but that Geoffrey Lewis guy from the intro up above looks pretty husky and hot. They show him just as the singer says something about "staring at cowboys in tight jeans". I'd like to see him in tight jeans. Was he actually hunky?

Polly Holliday refused to go back to Flo. I believe she was given the offer after Diane Ladd left, but she immediately turned it down.

Linda Lavin probably would have hit the fucking roof as well. Although she might have taken some delight that Holliday had to return to being a supporting role.

I'm more interested in the "backdoor pilots" introduced on a successful show, that never took off.. like the Brady Bunch ep where neighbors Ken Berry and his wife adopted A Chinese and a black. Didn't "Gimme A Break" and "Facts of Life" have backdoor pilots? I can't remember.

The Ropers was awful, but it wasn't Norman and Audra's fault. It was the overt emphasis on Jeffrey Tambors awful, milquetoast family. In any case, the TC spinoff " Threes A Crowd" was much worse, what with the "Jeff Spicoli" sous chef character, and the (otherwise excellent) Robert Mandan.

The award for the Weakest Spinoff Concept goes to: "Hello Larry". Maclean Stevenson was a totally shameless TV actor whore, though. He would've done most anything. Kim Richards was cute, but much like "Too Close For Comfort", they paired her with a disgustingly unattractive Troglodyte sister, which was par for the course in the late 70s, early 80s.

"The Donna Reed Show" had several backdoor pilots--all unsuccessful--including one with DL fave (and fellow Best Supporting Actress) Miyoshi Umeki.

I know what you mean, R100! That lydia Cornell really stunk up the place!

Six backdoor pilots that never took off.

Deborah VV? I'm sure she was a nice gal, but let's face it. She was uglier than a can full of smashed assholes.

The MTMS spin-offs were a money-grab. They didn’t need to “introduce new characters” and get rid of Rhoda. They wanted to see how many shows and episodes they could create and sell.

At the end, Mary was left with the sappy-voiced Georgette as a best friend-type. It was awful. Mary had an office life but no apartment life, except when she entertained her work friends at one of her bad parties.

Lou Grant was a good chore character and Ed Asner is underrated in comedy.

Does anyone remember a short-lived and obscure series called 1940(?) I think that DVV and the dingy actress who played Georgette from MTMS were in it?

There was a show called "Pete and Gladys", with Harry Morgan and Cara Williams. I know it was a spin-off, but from what?

After reading that mental floss article it made me wonder why Tracy Nelson was never really a sitcom star because it seemed like she was kind of made for that and then I went to her Wikipedia and I never realized she was the granddaughter of Ozzy and Harriet nor that on her maternal side she was related to Mark Harmon and Pam Dawber or for that matter that Mark Harmon and Pam Dawber were married to each other. I'm learning all sorts of things tonight.

[quote] There was a show called "Pete and Gladys", with Harry Morgan and Cara Williams. I know it was a spin-off, but from what?

December Bride.

Oh but then I did just remember how Tracy was on Father Dowling mysteries I used to watch that show a lot with my mom but I've never watched it since this is streaming anywhere I should find out.

R100 I thought the brunette sister was prettier than the blonde, if I remember correctly.

What a crap show, though. Even in the channel 5 rerun line up of What’s Happening/Different Strokes/Three’s Company - they were masterpieces in comparison.

Also if Isabel Sanford won an Emmy then Sherman Hemsley deserved 5. He WAS the show (because the writing certainly was no great shakes). I think he was only nominated once, which is insane.

Desi wanted to spin off the Mertzes. Bill wanted to do it, even though he loathed Viv. Viv on the other hand refused to headline a show with Bill. They were strong characters who were interesting enough to go it alone without Lucy and Ricky, but I think Viv would've wound up killing Bill after having to carry so many scenes together in their own series.

i always repeat this i guess... A spinoff wasn't always about following a familiar character from a popular show to a new show like FRASIER or THE ROEPERS.

A lot of spinoffs in the 80s and 90s were about creating a show that hit the same exact demographic and often the same tone, to create a creative sibling to a popular show that could be aired with it. Like THE GOLDEN GIRLS spawned EMPTY NEST and NURSES.

Dwborah Van Valkenburgh? Try working with that moldy dishrag Kari Michaelson!

It spawned a spinoff, (Benson) but I came here to say, that "Soap" was a great show. As a 8-10 year old child, I was still very aware of this show, and how good it was. My Boomer parents watched with an urgency, albeit.. smoking weed the entire time.

DVV more recently. One of my favorite opening credits moments in all of sitcom history is in the TCFC opening where the director has posed her against the door as if she's about to be shot, said "Ok Debra...Action! Now...Laugh!"

At least that's how I imagine it went down.

That intro also contains Nancy Dussault's massive doubletake to the camera when she's rearranging the fake plant.

[quote]December Bride.

Starring prominent Hollywood lesbian Spring Byington.

[quote]There was a show called "Pete and Gladys", with Harry Morgan and Cara Williams. I know it was a spin-off, but from what?

On "December Bride," Gladys was like Norm's wife on "Cheers" -- mentioned frequently but never seen.

I never liked the back door pilot. I tuned into my favorite sitcom to see the regular characters, it learn of a whole new cast. (See “Chatterbox” episode of the Nanny, and the aforementioned Rita Moreno appearance on GG…I always though it was brutal that the wife on Empty Nest was dead by the time the spin-off made it’s debut.)

R114, your comment about GG, Empty Nest and Nurses reminded me of how the network carried the same plot throughout all three shows (e.g., the hurricane episodes.)

I'm surprised a megahit like Laverne and Shirley never spawned a spinoff. There must've been talk at some point about spinning off Lenny and Squiggy. Laverne and Shirley went off the rails when they moved the setting to LA, so maybe by that point they thought, what would be the point.

The Rita Moreno episode of the GG is underrated. I enjoyed that episode. Rita looked fab, and she had good chem with Paul Dooley. Yes the blonde daughter was ugly as sin, but she could've been replaced if the show had been picked up.

Didn't Laverne and Shirley actually lose Shirley? Shirley was married to Bill Hudson (Goldie Hawn's ex-husband) and apparently he was interfering with Cindy Williams' work life. Laverne needed Lenny and Squiggy after losing Shirley.

Cindy Williams didn't leave until the sad last season. But the show had already started to go downhill a few seasons earlier.

The 1986 Kate and Allie episode "Late Bloomer" which was a backdoor pilot starring Lindsay Wagner!

So what I'm taking from this: Backdoor pilots are usually a misfire. They hurt the original show because they sideline the principal cast, and introduce new characters too sudden to connect with them. So the lesson I would learn: Build a foundation for the backdoor pilot first. Have the main characters interact with the pilot's characters a couple times before the pilot. Audience can warm up to the new characters, producers can test chemistry and retool before the backdoor pilot. Add references to the new show's characters and locations beforehand, get people curious. Maude, I think, appeared two or three times in All in the family before starting her own show. Did I hear that right?

Not sitcoms obviously, but Dynasty and The Colbys did a good job preparing the audience for the new show. The shows eventually both suffered, but I think the introduction on Dynasty was done right.

What are successful backdoor pilots in sitcoms?

I think Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy are two examples of backdoor pilots that went on to become successful series.

Was the Laverne & Shirley episode a backdoor pilot or an example of two guest stars that clicked and got good feedback, so they decided to create a show for them rather their Happy Days episode originally designed to launch a show? The characters were a bit different in the Happy Days episode and the show also did not introduce all the other future Laverne & Shirley characters.

The introduction of the dream Mork episode was just odd.

R85 - How was Futurama a spin-off of The Simpsons? They have the same creator, but they're not in the same universe (so to speak).

[quote] I'm surprised a megahit like Laverne and Shirley never spawned a spinoff.

Oddly enough, they spunoff a Saturday morning cartoon.

In that sad last season, Cindy Williams was pregnant. The producers refused to handle the situation correctly. I think they could have had Shirley and Carmine marry and spun that off, but that would have probably been an insult to Penny Marshall, who was sister to the producer. Although if she had the nerve to announce she was moving into directing, the change might have been accepted.

And I think they could have spun Lenny & Squiggy off to a new show because some of their storylines dominated Laverne & Shirley anyway.

[quote] Was the Laverne & Shirley episode a backdoor pilot or an example of two guest stars that clicked and got good feedback, so they decided to create a show for them

L&S wasn’t a back door pilot. It was too characters who clicked with the audience.

When they decided to run with a series, Cindy Williams originally turned them down. She had a good movie career going. They had hired another actress to play Shirley and filmed a pilot. Everyone thought the other actress was serviceable but didn’t click as well as Cindy. The producers made one last attempt to hire Cindy and she finally agreed.

The point being is that if Cindy knew it was an attempt at a series launch, she probably wouldn’t have done the Happy Days episode because originally she didn’t want tv work.

Did anyone mention the Tortellis as a spinoff of Cheers?

And, r106, are you thinking of The Goodtime Girls?

[quote] Add references to the new show's characters and locations beforehand, get people curious. Maude, I think, appeared two or three times in All in the family before starting her own show. Did I hear that right?

@ R126 - Maude appeared on one episode of AITF when the Bunkers all came down with the flu. I think it was towards the end of their first season. Apparently the network thought Bea Arthur was amazing (she was) and promptly ordered her own show. Then came an episode (I believe it was AITF again, likely early 2nd season) when Archie and Edith go to the Findlays for some family wedding. That episode was the actual backdoor pilot but was barely necessary since it went into production as soon as they replaced Carol (originally played by the off-putting Marcia Rodd and re-envisioned as sexpot Adrienne Barbeau).

R128 and R131, agreed…I didn’t see those episodes as what I think of as a “back door pilot”. A back door pilot seems to introduce a whole new cast and setting, not just new characters in the original sitcom setting. But maybe the industry considers both the same because the intent is the same…to create a new show.

The Devil was a successful spin-off from The Bible.

R72, I think it's fascinating that Lucy cast Alan Oppenheimer as her brother in Here's Lucy, since he was a good 20 years younger than her. Lucille was delusional about her own age and appearance.

Alan is still alive at age 92!

Someone upthread said Phyllis had no supporting cast but there was Jane Rose, Henry Jones, Lisa Gerritsen, and Judith Lowry. - all good value. I think the series faltered in Phyllis' work environments, especially the second season where she worked for the City Governor.

Police Woman was a successful spinoff that originated as an episode of Police Story. Much like Laverne & Shirley it wasn’t originally planned as a back door pilot.

What the hell is a back door pilot?

I only watched 227 for Sandra, otherwise the show was boring.

R52, R60: There were actually five! Don't forget "Jo's Cousin"!

In the last episode of third season, Jo went to visit her Uncle Sal and her cousins Bud, Paul & Terry. Uncle Sal (a widower) & the guys were struggling with tomboy Terry becoming a teenager, developing an interest in boys, etc. Jo dispenses Jo-like wisdom (?), I guess. Starring Donnelly Rhodes, hunky D.W. Brown, John Mengatti & Megan Follows.

I had a backdoor pilot once. I think he was with United.

R139 - A gay top who flies planes, Rose.

Everyone always talks about the Empty Nests episode of GG, but what about the other backdoor pilot. The one with the teen pregnant girl and her dad.

[quote] What the hell is a back door pilot?

Does this answer your question?

I want to say that Hello, Larry didn't even start as a Diff'rent Strokes spinoff. It was a Hail Mary to get some ratings for the floundering show. (So, technically, you could say they shared the same universe rather than had a parent series/spinoff relationship. Like Wings and Cheers.)

[quote] Everyone always talks about the Empty Nests episode of GG, but what about the other backdoor pilot. The one with the teen pregnant girl and her dad.

I remember that episode. Where all Girls seemed to have known the teenager forever even though we never heard of her before or cared. That was a backdoor pilot? For a sitcom? Girl and father had not one funny line, let alone were in any comedic situation. I thought that was just a 'social issue of the week' episode that GG did for a while.

The last episode of Too Close for Comfort that aired on ABC (before moving to first-run syndication) was a back-door pilot for a show called "Family Business", starring Lanie Kazan.

The Rushes hire family-run Garibaldi Construction to convert their attic into a bedroom for Iris. The Garibaldi sons (Jimmy Baio & George DeLoy, who dream of bigger things) are hopelessly inept, so the recently-widowed Mrs. Garibaldi (Kazan) hires a "foreman" to run the business (the very attractive Hillary B. Smith). Hilarity ensues. Or not.

I actually saw that thing filmed. It wasn't as painfully bad some of the other back-door pilots mentioned on this thread (such as The Chatterbox/Nanny, or some of FOL's). I mean, Kazan is always great, and Jimmy Baio knows how to deliver a line for a laugh.

Trapper John, MD? Spinoff of MASH?(supposedly a spinoff of the film)...AfterMASH...

Emergency! was a spinoff of Adam-12 (which was a spinoff of Dragnet). The Six Million Dollar Man spun off The Bionic Woman. Spencer For Hire spun off A Man Called Hawk. (Not sitcoms, I know.)

Does anyone remember "Ozzie's Girls", the spinoff from The Adventures Of Ozzie And Harriet?

GomerPyle and Mayberry RFD were successful spinoffs of The Andy Griffith Show.

Mama's Family was a spinoff of The Carol Burnett Show.

Full House - Fuller House

Gunsmoke - Dirty Sally (with Jeanette Nolan - one season)

Sanford and son actually had several spinoffs including "Grady"!

What's Happening - What's Happening Now!!

Happy Days - Joanie Loves Chachii.

A Different World is the greatest spinoff of all time.

Does anyone remember the Patti Labelle sitcom Out All Night. I could have sworn it was a spinoff of Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Anyone remember this show?

R122 Golden Girls fans regard that episode as one of their least favorites of the entire series.

R150 My mom always watched that show.Seemed like it was on for years.

R153 It ran for 6 seasons. And it's one if the rare sitcoms that thrived after it's star left. It was really brilliant how Debbie Allen reworked that show. Jasmine Guy had perfect comedic timing; she and Kadeem Hardison had perfect chemistry. All the characters were really well done.

R126 I think you are applying too much of contemporary television culture and not considering the economics of network TV before the 90s. There were only 4 channels; sitcoms were widely successful and relied heavily on standalone episodes even within the show. Sitcoms often retconn things introduced, even ongoing storylines.

A new sitcom introduced through an existing popular one, was smart business and it worked just as often as it didn't. Longevity was not a factor. TV execs were trying to create ratings successes as soon as possible; even if they only ran for 3 or 4 seasons, that was enough episodes for them to be syndicated. Less TV options meant shows created under the umbrella of a popular series, were more likely to be hits.

[quote]I thought that was just a 'social issue of the week' episode that GG did for a while.

Social issue of the week stories were pretty obvious like Mario Lopez guest starring or Rose might have AIDS. The teen mom and her dad was clearly a set up for a pilot.

Many sitcoms did not have long runs, back in the day. There were so many of them. I had favorites as a kid that ran for one season. Grindl with Imogene Coca, The Hathaways, with Peggy Cass and Jack Weston (and monkeys). Obviously, flops, but The Mothers In Law was a huge fav with kids and may have run 2or 3 seasons. I remember kids making a petition to keep it on the air.

Spinoffs go back to radio. The Great Gildersleeve was a spinoff of Fibber McGee And Molly. Beulah (which eventually became a TV series) was a spinoff of something or other - a sitcom about a black maid (played by Hattie McDaniel, among others).

R128 / r131 there was every intention of getting Laverne & Shirley their own show. There are a bunch of those television academy interviews that basically say as much, in case it wasn’t painfully obvious that Garry was looking for any avenue to give his sister her own show. No matter what the “official line” may have been.

I suppose had the episode totally bombed they would have scrapped the plans, but the plans were absolutely in place.

MTM and GG had a couple of awful backdoor pilots. MTM had that episode really bad one centered around Bill Daley as a bumbling politician and his staff. Just putrid. And how about the GG Mr Terrific episode? That is unwatchable.

R159, how can you tell which episodes were supposed to be backdoor pilots? I do remember that MTM episode and it was bad. But how do you know they wanted to build a sitcom around that character (bumbling politician)?

Was Green Acres a spinoff of Petticoat Junction? Or did it just have some of the same characters and take place in the same town (Hooterville)? The tone and humor were totally different despite both having Sam Drucker as the storekeeper. It was like he existed in both the crazy world of Green Acres and the more wholesome and heartwarming world of Petticoat Junction and the Shady Rest Hotel. And wasn't The Beverly Hillbillies also related to Petticoat Junction? - they did crossover shows.

R157, Great points. If I'm not mistaken sitcoms had more episodes per season than the standard 22 episodes which became routine in the 90s. There weee less concerns about continuity and on going storylines. That all started with Cheers, Cosby Show, Friends the must see tv on NBC.

There were* less concerns

[quote]That episode was the actual backdoor pilot but was barely necessary since it went into production as soon as they replaced Carol (originally played by the off-putting Marcia Rodd and re-envisioned as sexpot Adrienne Barbeau).

I thought Rodd was shrill and combative on that and her appearance on All in the Family. But I think that had more to do with the way the characters were written. Adrienne also played Carol as very sullen and moody those first few episodes.

Youtube had the original pilot for One Day at a Time up a couple of years back called "Three to get Ready" or something like that. It was Bonnie Franklin, Marcia Rodd, Mac Phillips (No Valerie) and I think Pat Harrington

Rodd (playing the role Mary Louise Wilson would occupy) was absolutely charming, clearly blowing everyone else out of the water. I think she would have excelled had she been given lighthearted characters to play. She had a Marsha Mason type quality about her.

After you watched the episode, you were baffled as to how they let her go but kept Franklin.

R164 What part was Marcia Rodd supposed to be playing, in that context, with Bonnie Branklin?

Sorry, I mean Fonnie Franklin.

Rodd was really good on Trapper John, MD, as Charles Siebert's wife. The role called for light comedy/comic relief, and she did well with what they gave her.

[quote]And it's one if the rare sitcoms that thrived after it's star left. It was really brilliant how Debbie Allen reworked that show. Jasmine Guy had perfect comedic timing; she and Kadeem Hardison had perfect chemistry. All the characters were really well done.

Different World and Facts of Life are probably two of the best examples of retooling a show and greatly improving it. A lot of times the tweaks are a bit desperate and they make the show worse.

The great TV that was lost for this not getting picked up.

Here's some tea from black Hollywood. Brandy and Countess Vaughn did not get along and were both ecstatic when Vaughn got her own spinoff with Monique, in The Parkers.

Melrose Place was retooled from a more serious serial drama to a campy nighttime soap.

Rodd was the neighbor/friend to Franklin. The pilot had Anne, only one daughter, Rodd and Harrington. Ann worked as a nurse in a hospital.

The pilot wasn't anything to write home about, standard MOR 70's fare, but Rodd was by far and away the highlight. But it was a show created for Bonnie by Norman Lear so.....

Here's the original thread on it when someone found it on Youtube.

Whitney being moved up to being the lead character, despite being more of a supporting type, was almost like a spinoff happening within an existing show. They had to retool her somewhat and make her more sympathetic and universal, while still retaining the qualities that made her Whitney. Kind of like how Frasier on Cheers vs the Frasier sitcom.

R171 Thanks for the explanation. She was a good actress. Maybe she overshadowed Bonnie Franklin too much?

[quote]Rodd was really good on Trapper John, MD, as Charles Siebert's wife. The role called for light comedy/comic relief, and she did well with what they gave her.

But *I* was the true star of the show.

I was fascinated by the fact "Good Times" was spun off from "Maude," which was in turn spun off from "All in the Family." Which means it was a apsin-off of a spin-off. How many others of those were there? There can't have been many.

[quote] But *I* was the true star of the show.—Lorna Luft as Nurse Libby Kegler

I beg to differ.

R174 Also no explanation was ever made how Florida moved from a suburb of NYC to a Chicago housing project. In Good Times she was born and raised in Chicago.

R174 The Jeffersons was a spinoff from All in the Family as well, so that makes 3 different shows which trace their roots back All In the Family.

Also The Game was a spinoff from the Kelsey Grammer produced Girlfriends. All these shows exist in the same universe as Moesha.

This thread is conjuring so much of my tv knowledge and childhood memories. Anyone remember when UPN was referred to as the Urban People's Network. For some reason in the late 90s the big 3 stop producing all black cast sitcoms. Which is weird because they have always been widely successful. Fox had Martin, Living Single and later Bernie Mac.

Guess they wanted that white 20s demo more desperately than broadly high ratings.

[quote]The 1986 Kate and Allie episode "Late Bloomer" which was a backdoor pilot starring Lindsay Wagner!

Kate and Allie also tried a backdoor pilot with Andrea Martin as a public TV host. Grant Shaud played a production assistant. There were actually 2 episodes featuring Martin so the characters were better developed and incorporated into the main show. I like Martin and would have watched.

I know it's not quite the same, but Sonny and Cher > Cher > Sonny and Cher > cancellation.

Mary Tyler Moore Show spawned 3 others: Rhoda, Phyllis, and Lou Grant.

It also made a big new star out of Betty White, who had been around forever. So, Golden Girls took advantage of both Maude and MTMS.

And Gavin MacLeod was a nobody who then got Love Boat, a huge success.

MTMS was kind of the mother of all shows.

R181 I think a case could be made for All In The Family being the mother of all shows, too.

All in the Family begat Maude, The Jeffersons, Good Times, Gloria, and depending how you look at it, Archie Bunker's Place. If you really want to get technical, you could throw in the short-lived Jeffersons spinoff, Checking In. And you could also possibly throw in 704 Hauser Street.

R183, Apparently Rachel's dad was Archie's tax attorney so it spawned Friends. Uncle Phil interned at the same law office so theres There is Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Martin was James from Good Times nephew. And Ellen was a cute baby dyke who guest starred on Gloria.

All In the Family had Carroll O'Connor who later starred in In The Heat Of The Night, Liz Torrez played Tesera Betancourt on AITF and later got Emmy noms for The John Larroquette Show. Betty Garrett (Irene Lorenzo) went on to appear on Laverne And Shirley.

[quote]The Six Million Dollar Man spun off The Bionic Woman.

Wasn't there another proposed spinoff from SMDM, The Bionic Boy? Vince Van Patten & Joan Van Ark guest-starred in a two-parter about a young man who receives bionic implants after being paralyzed in a landslide (which killed his father).

Supposedly, there was also talk of doing a spinoff with Max, the bionic dog? Or that was the original intention of introducing him. I have no idea if that's actually true, but at 11 years-old (and a huge fan of German Shepherds & Rin-Tin-Tin movies), I totally would have watched that shit!

So "The Brady Bunch" episode where they took in the two orphan boys was meant to be the start of a spin-off show? I didn't know that.

This is a fun thread.

RE: Maude. Bea Arthur as Maude was only supposed to be a one-off guest appearance on All In the Family but after CBS President Fred Silverman watched the episode he immediately called Norman Lear and said "we have to give this woman her own show." Arthur made another guest appearance on AITF that season, and "Maude" premiered the following season.

'The Partridge Family' spun off the Bobby Sherman / Wes Stern comedy "Getting Together" which didn't last too long . It was a 'back door pilot' for the last episode of Season 1 of TPF, in which the family befriends a young songwriter (Sherman) and introduces him to a lyricist (Wes Stern) whom they were acquainted with. The episode was titled "A Knight In Shining Armor". The series premiered in September, 1971 and was pulled in the beginning of January, 1972 after just 14 episodes.

And in the fourth season (1973-74) , they introduced child actor Ricky Segall as neighbor 'Ricky Stevens' - a musical kid who was looking to have his own music career. This was an attempt to 'spin off' Ricky into his own series in the Fall, 1974 since David Cassidy and Shirley Jones both said the fourth season (1973-74) would be their last. Segall appeared in 10 episodes that season, and credited as a regular cast member. The planned spin-off was canceled by ABC when they realized CBS was changing the landscape of sitcoms ('MTM', 'AITF', 'Maude').

Another thought about Max, the Bionic Dog ....

Although it had been a while since animal-centric shows like Lassie, Flipper & Rin Tin Tin were popular, Max the Bionic Dog really wasn't that crazy of an idea in 1978. (Mr. Smith, anyone? That shit went *to series* in 1983!)

Rin Tin Tin enjoyed a little revival in the mid-70s thanks to syndication of the tv series, the popularity of Benji, and the 1976 movie "Won Ton Ton: The Dog Who Saved Hollywood"....which was (loosely) based on Rin Tin Tin's story. Phenomenal cast! Madeline Kahn, Teri Garr, Bruce Dern, Art Carney, Phil Silvers....and dozens of others!

^^ Ack. That should have been signed R186!

[Quote] Didn't Laverne and Shirley actually lose Shirley? Shirley was married to Bill Hudson (Goldie Hawn's ex-husband) and apparently he was interfering with Cindy Williams' work life.

What was Bill Hudson’s issue that he was such a jerk to Goldie and controlling of Cindy? Bill Hudson sounds like he should be a DL legend, but I don’t know anything about him.

R192 One third of The Hudson Brothers, a musical group/band, who had their own TV show for a while (summer replacement? For Sonny And Cher?) which I remember, it was super successful and got them their own show, which for some reason was aired on Saturday mornings to appeal to kids and teens.

R192 just seems like a leech - pathetically trying to hitch onto the fame of each wife. And in the case of Goldie, continues to do so 30/40 years after they divorced.

The Brady Bunch never took in two orphan boys. They had never before seen white neighbors who adopted three boys — one white, one black, one Native American or Asian, can’t remember — because the boys were friends and they decided to not split them up — and these never before seen characters took up an entire Brady Bunch show. IIRC Ken Berry played the husband. Can’t remember the wife but it was some familiar sitcom actress.

The show was hit you over the head pilot material but went nowhere. The Bradys did have cousin Oliver but he wasn’t an orphan.

The wife was played by Brooke Bundy who did a lot of episodic TV work and played Patricia Arquette’s bitchy mom in Nightmare On Elm Street 3.

[quote]The show was hit you over the head pilot material but went nowhere.

The concept actually became a sitcom in the 80s starring Elliott Gould and Dee Wallace. Ke Huy Quan from The Goonies played the Asian son. They changed the African American boy to a girl. Elliott Gould left after a few episodes

[quote]The great TV that was lost for this not getting picked up.

It was not a good episode of "Charlie's Angels", but might have been picked up for series if they'd had Stephen Shortridge shirtless too, in addition to Bob Seagren.

r52, there were at least two other attempts at spin-offs--really backdoor pilots == that I remember from the Facts of Life. One involving some relative of Tootie's in an interracial marriage and one involving relatives of Jo who were mechanics--complete with a new generation butch girl.

r192, watch the first 15 seconds of this video. Penny Marshall refers to Cindy's husband as a pest.

The Nanny has that awful back door pilot in an early season with the hairdresser nobody cares about. All I remember was she was blonde.

R199 Can't help wondering why she's wearing sunglasses, not over her eyes but under her eyes, that she keeps adjusting so she can see over them?

Maybe they're the kind of prescription glasses that turn into to sunglasses in bright light. There would have been bright light for that video shoot.

R199 whew boy, Bill Hudson sounds like the worst ever!

[quote] Plus, I don't think Boyd and her got along to begin with. He NEVER talks about his time on the show, and when they did a reunion two years back hosted and developed by one of his Broadway friends, he still couldn't be bothered to put in an appearance.

Someone should pose this question to Valerie on Twitter or something. She’s in a “no shits left to give” mood these days and just might spill all the beans.

R203 Never thought of that. But she could have taken them off.

[quote] I like Isabel Sanford and have no problem with her winning an Emmy, although her character was better on All in the Family and the early Jefferson years when she was more common sense, salt of the earth and not some rich empty nester trying find meaning by working at the Center. She went from having a great deadpan delivery to being a bit over-the-top.

Yes! She was extremely likable and relatable on AITF and pitch perfect in her scenes opposite Jean Stapleton. On The Jeffersons, her acting became broader and broader as the character became more “posh”. Maybe she felt in competition with Marla Gibbs who got most of the laugh lines (similar to Cybill Shepherd overplaying her character on her sitcom in an attempt to outshine Christine Baranski)? Anyway, I remember watching an episode of The Jeffersons as a pre-teen and thinking Isabel was the hammiest actress I’d ever seen.

Amen, r203.

I had no idea that Cloris turned down the offer to join the cast of Rhoda after her own show was cancelled. This is what I love about DL! ❤️

Interesting but somewhat understandable for her to pass. She must have been hard up to join the cast of The Facts of Life ten or so years later. Technically she became the lead of TFOL but the Rhoda scripts were probably lShakespeare by comparison.

She must've needed the money to agree to do dreck like Facts of Life. Her son was on the soap opera Guiding Light in the 1990s, and he was super good looking.

[quote]She must've needed the money to agree to do dreck like Facts of Life.

Sometimes it's more about their SAG insurance than money. And quite frankly there are some actors who will take anything because they like to work.

R209 How hard up or poor could Cloris Leachman have been at that point? I think she just liked to keep working. There aren't that many parts for older actresses and no one was offering her her own sitcom.

By the way, for the person who claimed that Cloris was a strictly film actress pre-MTM, she was the mother on the 50s version of Lassie for a season. She guested on all the big shows. Mr. Novak, Dr, Kildare, The Big Valley, Mannix, etc.

"The Chatterbox," the backdoor pilot of "The Nanny" featured hottie Patrick Cassidy.

[quote] By the way, for the person who claimed that Cloris was a strictly film actress pre-MTM, she was the mother on the 50s version of Lassie for a season. She guested on all the big shows. Mr. Novak, Dr, Kildare, The Big Valley, Mannix, etc.

That was all prior to her winning the Oscar in 1972. In those days, if you won an Oscar, you didn’t go back to tv.

I can't believe that John Amos and Lisa Gerritsen are the only ones still alive. Of course Ted died early, but the rest all seemed to die in quick procession after Mary.

I will forever love Isabel Sanford for this:

And take those white people with you.

R213 I was replying to this:

[quote]Clo Leachman was a movie actress. When she did Mary Tyler Moore Show, it was a step down but it got her her own tv show. To have to step down a second time, to Rhoda no less, was too much!

She was not a movie actress when she did the MTM show. She was mostly a TV actress. Doing guest spots, on drama series. When she won the Oscar, she was already on the Mary Tyler Moore show, and she continued on the show - as well as doing other TV movies. And an occasional theatrical movie. Before having her own show, Phyllis. I'm not sure what your point was.

I hate MTM and it’s spin-offs

[quote] What's Happening - What's Happening Now!!

What about MY spin-off, motherfucker?!!

Isabel had great moments on The Jeffersons, such as when she confronts George over his alleged affair. I'm glad she won an Emmy.

Zara Cully and Marla Gibbs both should have won Emmys as well. And Sherman goes without saying. He was also terrific on Amen as well.

[quote] I don't really remember "Flo", but that Geoffrey Lewis guy from the intro up above looks pretty husky and hot. They show him just as the singer says something about "staring at cowboys in tight jeans". I'd like to see him in tight jeans. Was he actually hunky?

That’s Juliette’s late father. Not traditionally handsome by a long shot, but nice muscular body and piercing eyes, I had a crush on him for years.

Why didn’t the Small Wonder spin-off happen?

Geoffrey Lewis - wasn't he the crazy one on the GG Empty Nest back pilot?

I’d love to have seen a backdoor pilot for a spin-off of Father Knows Best with Carl Betz as daddy going to a gay “tavern” a few towns away. I’d have called it My Private World.

[quote] I hate MTM and it’s spin-offs

Dear, a mindful practice of the proper use of apostrophes will save you much embarrassment when entertaining, whether a small gathering or a large soiree.

Do network sitcoms still get spinoffs? I haven't watched network sitcoms in YEARS, I have no idea what's on anymore.

[quote] Her son was on the soap opera Guiding Light in the 1990s, and he was super good looking.

His name was Bryan Englund, and yes he was. He died somewhat mysteriously (presumed drug overdose) alone in a YMCA hotel room in Manhattan. Despite the details of his death, he was seemingly straight.

R225 Blackish got Collegish. Big Bang Theory, Young Sheldon.

R223 Carl Betz was on the Donna Reed Show.

Bonnie Franklin also apparently turned down a spin-off of One Day at a Time entitled Hold Me, David. It was set in Vegas and her co-star would have been popular Canadian comedian David Steinberg as Ann’s budding comic boyfriend trying to get a gig on the Strip. Of course Bonnie hated the title and hated the alternate one even more (Shut Up, Ann) so it wasn’t developed.

R229 They were also going to call it Fuck Me, David. Or Fuck Off, Ann.

R226, you’re confusing Morgan Englund with his brother Bryan. Morgan (who was on Guiding Light) is still very much alive. In an online interview a few years he pretty much spelled out what a neglectful mother he had.

So Cloris was closer to Phyllis than anyone knew?

This was probably already mentioned: the Dwight Schrute spin off “The Farm” costarring Thomas Middleditch and Matt Jones from Breaking Bad.

So are we just going to list spin offs now? Since it doesn't really answer OPs question I was wondering.

Fish was spun off from Barney Miller.

^^Fish and Barney Miller. As a small gay boy I flipped those boring shows off as fast as I could so I could watch The Facts of Life and pontificate on why I was a younger male version of Blair Warner.

Boston Legal spun off from The Practice.

R234 is more passive aggressive than Phyllis Lindstrom.

Not a sitcom, but as one of the most successful TV shows of all time, why was there no spin-off of Little House on the Prairie? I would have watched “Nellie and Nancy in the City,” “The Mercantile,” “Mary’s School for the Blind,” etc.

David Chase (Sopranos) said that he thought about doing a spinoff involving Janice and Bobby Bacala.

In general, I think most supporting actors who get offered a spinoff would be happy to go & do that.

Isabel Sanford was an exception (she didn't want to go).

R239 I believe Michael Landon wanted to spin off Alice Garvey to her own show. The plucky yet nervous lady would have been running an orphanage and anytime the slightest thing happened, she would panic and use a baby as a battering ram to smash her way out of the orphanage, whereupon wacky hijinks would ensue.

Alas, NBC passed on this golden opportunity.

[quote]Valerie Harper had told CBS that the 1978-79 season was her last season of 'Rhoda', which is why they focused on Brenda as the episodes went on. They were to marry her off and give her a spin-off (along with Nancy Walker going with her) as a mid-season replacement. If it worked, she had her own show with her new husband 'Benny' and her mother 'Ida' (I think they were to relocate to Buffalo, NY if IIRC). Yet that didn't happen as the show was canceled before it got into her wedding.

Sorry to be an asshole, R56, but don't you mean " with her new husband Benny and her 'mother' Ida"?

Because r239 nobody had the stomach to make more shit like Little House

Janice and Bobby would have been terrible characters to spin off. They maybe could have done something with Bobby if they surrounded him with interesting characters, but Janice was beyond useless. Aida Turturro was on her way out after her first season because Janice didn't get much of a response from the audience and Aida herself was a pain in the ass to deal with. The only reason they (were forced to) bring her back was because of Nancy Marchand's death. They wanted to have a female family member as an adversary for Tony. I always thought that was Carmela's job.

R234 How are we supposed to know if they wanted to go?

r239, not a spin-off, but Merlin Olsen did leave "Little House" to star in "Father Murphy," which was also a Michael Landon project, and took place on the American frontier in around the same era. It only lasted a little over a season, but Olsen only came back to Little House for a couple of guest appearances after that.

Dallas was a spinoff of Little House being Big House on the Prairie.

[quote] Janice and Bobby would have been terrible characters to spin off.

Chase said that he intended it to be a comedy, I think. I didn't realize that Aida Turturro was a PITA. She and James Gandolfini (Tony Soprano) got into an argument while filming "Soprano Home Movies." Something about her needing to eat chicken salad and having low blood sugar.

I do think Janice was a great character, though. I didn't see Carmela as Tony's adversary. I saw her more as his enabler and an occasional thorn in his side.

[quote] Geoffrey Lewis - wasn't he the crazy one on the GG Empty Nest back pilot?

Good memory!

The Gilmore Girls spinoff was Blonde Twink-centric....If only DL was around then maybe we could have saved it..!!

Even MORE Facts of Life spinoffs that didn't happen ------>>>Tooties interracial Couple Uncle and Aunt------>>JOs Cousin almost got a spinoff!!!..............THE MANY ATTEMPTS OF THE FACTS OF LIFE--------->>Yet another multiple offender, The Facts of Life made multiple attempts at launching series for new characters: the Season 2 finale “Brian and Sylvia,” about Tootie’s aunt and uncle, an interracial couple; the Season 3 episode “The Academy,” about a nearby all boys school; and the Season 3 episode “Jo’s Cousin,” which focused on the 14-year-old only girl in a family of machismo-imbued New Jersey men

Bob Seagren (one of Toni’s Boys) guest starred in one of the final episodes of Wonder Woman as “The Man Who Could Not Die”. The IMDB trivia for this episode suggests that it was written with the possibility of being a spin off. Wonder Man?

R248 was he a crazy Scieno too?

^ I assume you are referring to Geoffrey Lewis? Sadly it appears he was. He has an openly gay son (Juliette’s half brother) with whom it appears he was very close - and who is not a Scientologist.

R255 = He had TEN kids....LoL

"It's surprising to me that one of the most popular, lucrative, and long-running shows in TV history never had any spin-offs: The Simpsons."

Well, you can thank Rupert Murdoch for that. This is according to Matt Groening himself. He even came up with a spin-off that was going to feature The Simpsons adult characters back when they were kids. But even though The Simpsons basically made Fox News possible with all the money it made, Murdoch absolutely hated The Simpsons.

It's hard to believe that The Simpsons was considered so revolutionary early in its run. Too revolutionary for Rupert.

Meanwhile, Seth McFarlane got most of the crap he wanted.

Futurama did reference the Simpsons a couple of times (example: an old Bart Simpson doll in the abandoned ruins of "Old" New York), but is that enough to make it a spin-off?

BTW, new Futurama episodes are being made. I'm guessing Disenchantment is in permanent hiatus.

[quote] why was there no spin-off of Little House on the Prairie?

Technically wasn’t Little House: A New Beginning a spin-off? I guess it was more akin to Mayberry RFD where the setting and supporting characters were the same but the lead actors had left and the focus shifted.

Charmed Lives (1986) was a second season backdoor pilot from Who's the Boss. The first of two pilots (the other being Living Dolls) which were spun out Angela's advertising agency.

Fran Dresher and Donna Dixon were competing models/actresses/whatevers who agree to share a spokesperson job, commission, and apartment in SF which has all the furniture chained to the floor.

I actually felt this pilot had a little more going for it than the dreadful Living Dolls. An attractive, more experienced comedic cast, and quite good chemistry between the two leads. There might have even been some subtle lesbian overtones thrown in.

One of the most infamous spin-offs not mentioned yet is "Tabitha" from 1976 - just four years after "Bewitched" ended.

In the original pilot, Liberty WIlliams starred as 'Tabitha Stephens' now in her early 20s (though Tabitha was only 7 when 'Bewitched' ended four years prior) and working for a fashion magazine. She was a witch living in San Francisco with her brother, and her younger brother Adam (actor Bruce Kimmel) was a warlock - and took after his Uncle Arthur being a mischievous meddlesome warlock (and it was understood he was gay, as was Arthur). In this pilot - which aired in April, 1976 - Tabitha tells her long-time boyfriend she's a witch. He doesn't believe her, so she has to prove it to him. The episode was practically a carbon copy of the first episode of 'Bewitched' in 1964.

ABC was not impressed with this pilot, so they ordered a retooling a a new pilot.

The 'new pilot' had cast Lisa Hartman as 'Tabitha' in her early 20s, now living in LA and working for a television studio. Adam (now played by David Akrum) was her OLDER brother and mortal - he took after his father Darrin, and disapproved of his sister's witchcraft. Tabitha was romantically involved in her boss, played by Robert Urich. A new relative - 'Aunt Minerva' (Karen Morrow) pops in on a regular basis to cause trouble - an obvious replacement for Endora from 'Bewitched' but not nearly as good or likeable as Agnes Moorehead. This pilot aired in May, 1977 and was picked up to series for September, 1977 on ABC.

The only cast members from 'Bewitched' who made guest appearances was Dr. Bombay (Bernard Fox) and Mr. and Mrs. Kravitz - who had a niece 'Susan' living in LA and happened to be friends with Tabitha. The series never found a permanent home on the schedule, and was pre-empted more than it aired. The show was canceled after 11 episodes, and was pulled in early January, 1978. (14 episodes had filmed). A horrible show from start to finish.

I remember dishy Robert Urich on that show. I did not remember Lisa Hartman’s original nose, though.

Robert Urich was a cast member of two sitcoms during the 1977-78 TV season: Soap and Tabitha!!!

R261 oh wow. Her nose job is so obvious but at the same time it’s a definite improvement. It’s not even big but it just looks all wrong on her.

She looks like Mary Ingalls' identical Jewish cousin

Tabitha was trash, but to my 4-year-old mind, it was gayling's heaven. My parents would just roll their eyes and let me watch it.

I thought Lisa Hartman was so cute back then, and perhaps she was better looking in moving pictures rather than stills.

She was defiantly a real beauty after her nose and eye tweaks.

Everyone forgets about Joanie Loves Chachi. Great theme song.

R266 I didn't.

Unfortunately, Lisa Hartman got her nose done about the same time her hair turned into an '80s nightmare, so in my opinion she never rose above "cute" on the beauty scale.

Women's hair in the '70s was so much better than in the '80s. And the makeup was, too.

New Jersey housewife.

Ask Op, R245 hes the one who wanted to know.

Lisa looks terrible now. Wow.

[quote] How are we supposed to know if they wanted to go?

Sometimes they would say so in an interview. I think Isabelle Sanford said she didn’t want to leave All in the Family but was forced to do The Jeffersons.

^ I was 10 years a slave doing that show!

RhodPhyl

Delta Burke's "Woman of the House" was a 1995 spin-off of the very successful sitcom "Designing Women" (1986 -93).

Burke reconciled with the producers of 'DW' after a very public battle with them which led to her being fired from 'DW' in 1991. In 1995, they brought her character 'Suzanne Sugarbaker' back as a widow of her latest husband who takes his seat in the House of Representatives to finish off his term. Sugarbaker now lives in Washington, DC and no longer in Atlanta. CBS ordered 13 episodes of the sitcom, and only aired 8 sporadically between January, 1995 - August 1995, before canceling it for good due to low ratings. (Lifetime network then aired the last few episodes in September, 1995).

Some of the characters 'Suzanne Sugarbaker' brought with her to Washington from Atlanta were her 'disabled brother' Jim (I don't think he was ever mentioned in DW), her step-daughter Desiree, and her never-before-seen maid 'Sapphire Jones' (though in DW her maid was named 'Consuela' ). None of the characters from 'DW" ever made a guest appearance on Burke's new show except for Meshach Taylor in one episode, who reprised his character 'Anthony Bouvier'.

r275 Not a spinoff, but Delta graduated from Congresswoman to First Lady in "DAG," starring David Alan Grier as the Secret Service agent assigned to protect her. It flopped big time, too.

Poor Delta! At least she didn’t go the way of Roseanne and Kristie into Trumper

An ensemble comedy by LBT about women in DC politics could've been good, had she not jammed a cartoonish version of Suzanne Sugarbaker into the lead role. I remember Teri Garr being especially watchable whenever she was on screen, and deserving of a better show.

I rewatched some of it recently (couldn't make it through the whole season of 13 episodes) and it was awful. I could not believe this was from the same people who brought us DW (even in the awful last two seasons). A major problem was Burke had no great supporting cast to play off of. No one was likeable. And yes, Burke was reduced to a cartoon character. Whatever made them (all involved) think this was a great idea for a DW spin-off needed to get their heads examined.

The episode of "Three's Company" that had Barrie Youngfellow's character living with two guys (basically the inverse of the "Three's Company" formula) screamed backdoor pilot. Someone at ABC in the late '70s/early '80s must've had a hard-on for Youngfellow, because they really tried to push make her successful.

May she rest in peace, r280.

May who rest in peace, r281?

[R282] Barrie Youngfellow died earlier this year - I believe it was in April.

It happens, R284. Life's not the French Riviera, believe me.

R284 - What part of Barrie was inside April at the time?

A different world was Cosby's second spinoff.

Mr. Quiet in the first season was the first attempt to spin off the success of the show, with Tony Orlando playing a social worker running a youth center in the inner city.

[R286] Her mortality.

How come there were no Murphy Brown spinoffs? I mean I can sort of see why, who would want to watch "Miles"? But there were so many MTM spinoffs, for ex.

R289 MTM wasn’t “political.”

I thought Mary was political. Wasn't she supposed to be the first single career woman on TV?

Without being a raging bra-burner. And made during the height of feminism.

Who would spin off of Murphy Brown though? Candice was the only reason to watch that shitshow!

r251 Hardly

R293 - The spin-off could have been the long-suffering, frazzled temp office staff mining laughs from their desperately finding applicants for that raging bitch of a boss Murphy Brown. It could have been called "It's a Shitty Living".

r291 has never heard of Suzy McNamara.

Polly Holliday should've returned to Alice once Flo flopped. Diane Ladd was awful, and Celia Weston was merely serviceable as her replacements.

MTM wasn't political...so that's why it had spinoffs? I don't get the reasoning. Nobody has given a good reason why M. B. didn't have any spinoffs, but my guess is it didn't have particularly beloved or hilarious characters, or brilliant actors. I mean ensemble shows are often spinoff heaven.

Um, ALL IN THE FAMILY was the most political show on television and may have spun off more series than any other, so that hypothesis is absurd.

AITF probably wins for most spinoffs (Maude, Jeffersons, Gloria. Archie Bunker's Place, 704 Hauser Street). Happy Days and MTM Show probably come next, with Laverne & Shirley, Mork & Mindy, and Joanie Loves Chachi, and Rhoda, Phyllis, and Lou Grant, respectively. What if MTM had decided to spin off Ted and Georgette? Would that have been successful?

[quote]I thought Mary was political. Wasn't she supposed to be the first single career woman on TV?

Marlo Thomas was the first single career woman on TV in "That Girl" (1965-70).

R301 What was Eve Arden in Our Miss Brooks? She was a single, working schoolteacher. Ann Marie was an aspiring actress, not even with a regular job.

r301 and r302 See R296.

R303 Our Miss Brooks preceded Private Secretary by at least a year on TV, and was on the radio since the late 1940s (it continued on radio and TV simultaneously).

Mary's hairstyle (teased, bouffant-ish), heavy eyeliner, and choice of music (not rock) was behind the times. Despite the MTMS being a trendsetter for portraying working women.

Cousin Larry from Three's Company could maybe have had his own show.

"Ted and Georgette" (MTMS) might have worked, but it would've been really stupid.

Some comments on the above:

Nancy Walker came into her own as an ersatz Thelma Ritter on McMillan and Wife.

McLean Stevenson must have been a real douche to have is character killed off on MASH for him to do Hello Larry. No going back.

He was 2nd cousin once removed of 2 time presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson

r305

Who was cousin Larry on TC?

I never understand why neighbor Larry couldn't be on Three's a crowd as he was Jack's best friend... IIRC the girls moved away but Larry and Furley were still around

The spin-off should have been Jack and Larry in “Apartment No. 69”.

R308, sorry, it wasn't Cousin Larry, it was Neighbor Larry. (The guy who was car salesman-ish.)

Larry Dallas! Played by the very much alive Richard Kline!

Richard Kline said they offered him an occasional recurring part on Three’s A Crowd but he also got a pilot where he would have been the lead so he chose that instead. I don’t think the pilot got picked up but he was smart to take the chance since TAC only lasted a season

Larry *was* on Three's a Crowd...but only for one episode. The only other Three's Company actor who appeared on Three's a Crowd was Greedy Gretchen (Teresa Ganzel).

Mary Cadorette sucked big time. Bad casting. Zero charisma. Even John Ritter and Robert Mandan couldn't bring her to life. They should've used Joyce instead and have a romance blossom between Jack and Janet. Joyce was so good and a real team player. They did her wrong.

r314

I know it would have never happened but I would have loved Jack and Crissy getting together

Joyce DeWitt ruined her face with a bad nose job. It didn’t help her post-TC prospects.

Why does this have to be limited to sitcoms? I wanna talk about The Closer / Major Crimes.

As a little gayling I remember thinking Mary Cadorette was so pretty. Three’s A Crowd was a boring show though. The only good thing I remember was Jessica Walter playing Cadorette’s mother and doing an early version of Lucille Bluth.

Is "The Brady Kids" cartoon considered a spinoff of "The Brady Bunch", or just a retooled version if TBB, like "The Brady Brides"?

I would say the former, R319.

Anyone remember that early Fox sitcom "Duet" starting Matthew Laurence and Mary Page Keller? That eventually morphed or spun off into "Open House" with Allison LaPlaca and Chris Lemmon, after LaPlaca became the breakaway star of "Duet"?

[quote] Marlo Thomas was the first single career woman on TV in "That Girl" (1965-70).

Ann-Marie was single only because her boyfriend was obviously a fag.

Fox tried with Allison LaPlaca the same way NBC tried with Ann Jillian.

r317 I would say "Major Crimes" was more of a continuation than a spinoff. They kept most of the same characters, and it began immediately after "The Closer" ended.

Aren't there a lot of JAG spinoffs? I'm glad we're sticking to sitcoms, actually.

Beverly Hills Buntz was a failed dramedy spinoff of Hill Street Blues.

[quote]Fox tried with Allison LaPlaca the same way NBC tried with Ann Jillian.

They tried SO hard with Ann Jillian, she was on tv every five minutes for several years but she never really took off.

I never cared for anything Ann Jillian did post It’s A Living; however I probably would have given a Cassie spin-off a try.

BJ and the Bear spun off Sheriff Lobo. NBC was desperate at that point in time.

[quote] Aren't there a lot of JAG spinoffs?

Yes, and they are affectionately called Jag-offs in the industry.

Wow! That guy is on one of the shows only senior citizens watch? What a waste.

Chuck Carrington used to go to Easton's Gym in LA in the '90s, when I went there. Nice guy and I had a mad crush on him.

Was Chuck not not gay or just not gay?

For a show that was on for about ten years and introduced NCIS, Jag almost seems forgotten today. I had a crush of David James Elliot back in the day -- and would have been ok had they used Chuck a bit more.

Enos got his own spin-off from 'Dukes of Hazzard.' He then went back when it flopped.

I hope they make a spinoff of C.S.I. one of these days.

Poor Enos. What an unfortunate name, so prone to ridicule.

Hey!

R331 That comment makes no sense.

I was just reading about “Phyllis”. Cloris was gung ho about it but that show fell apart quickly, especially after Barbara Colby was murdered. Cloris was devastated by her death. If nothing else it had a great theme song.

My impression of “Rhoda” is Valerie didn’t enjoy it much at all. She got as close as a person could to Mary and missed being part of the cast. Just my takeaway.

Rhoda and Mary would have been a cute couple of lesbians.

Phyllis was plagued with problems, including the death of Barbara Colby, the illness of many of the cast, and the lack of talent of Valerie Harper's husband.

One of my friends in high school loved Phyllis (the show) and was always telling me about it -he loved the actors, the lines - I wasn't that crazy about it and didn't watch it much. He also loved the Paul Lynde Show, though.

R342 - Did your young, gayling friend also think that Lance Loud was the mostest? Come to think of it, they could have spun off Lance from An American Family.

R341 that’s right…the cast dropped like flies.

Lou Grant was great. and Ed's LG show was less gruff than the MTM one. The only connection to MTM was that Eileen Heckart guest starred, having played Mary's Aunt Flo(!) on MTM, and one ep had one of Lou's 3 daughters briefly visit.

Nancy Walker killed it during the 70's, before the ABC debacle. Not only Rhoda and Mildred on McMillan & Wife, her Bounty commercials made her the best paid tv spokeswoman of the day, Procter & Gamble loved her.

Wasn't Maude supposed to have one more season, with her moving to DC as a newly elected congresswoman? Then Bea dropped out, and I believe they switched it to Bill Macy - only I can't recall if he played a Maude-less Walter.

The season written by Norman Lear about Maude in Washington was recycled into 3 new shows:

The filmed, unsold pilot "Onward and Upwards", starring John Amos as pro footballer turned Congressman.

"Mr. Dugan" starring Cleavon Little, which was set to air in March 1979, but was pulled at short notice because of controversy. Some real black Congressmen were concerned about the political nature of the show and thought it would be disastrous for them.

The other show starred Bill Macy and debuted in August 1979 as "Hanging In". It had no direct connection to Maude, but also used the same scripts, supporting cast and sets as Maude's Big Move I, II & III, and Upward and Onward, and Mr.Dugan. The new show was set in a university and it lasted just a few episodes.

[quote]Nancy Walker killed it during the 70's

And then she went and spoiled it all by making something stupid like Can’t Stop The Music

Thank u R346. I did not remember the Cleavon pilot. Years later, there was a Delta Burke pilot similar to these. where she played Suzanne Sugarbaker, too.

R343 Not that I know of. I don't remember other kids watching An American Family. At the time that was on, I was only 13. Though I did watch it. I didn't think Lance was attractive, or even likeable. I thought Grant was pretty cute, though.

Murphy brown was a bitch

I remember seeing a group of random people gathered around a TV display in a mall Sears store when I was around 11 or 12 yrs old. Everyone was super interested and laughing at what was on the TV. It was the Cosby Show. Even as a kid I knew they were just a bunch of sheep eating it up because it was popular at the time.

[quote]They tried SO hard with Ann Jillian, she was on tv every five minutes for several years but she never really took off.

Despite that, she did rack up three Emmy nominations in the 80's, which is pretty impressive.

r350=Dan Quayle

No "The", No "Show" it's just called "Ann Jillian"... with a Johnny Mathis soundalike yodeling her name in ecstasy at the beginning and the end so you don't forget who the show is about. Ann sings in the middle.

I just read about the spinoff from The Goldbergs called Schooled which was cancelled after 2 seasons.

R355 - Never even heard of it. It's astounding that The Goldbergs lasted 10 fucking years. Did ABC have absolutely nothing else to air?

R354 that was a terrible 80s opening. Totally shit

If anyone watches 'One Day At A Time' on Antenna TV, the Schneider spin-off pilot "Another Man's Shoes" recently aired, as it was the last episode of the series. The show focused on Schneider traveling to check on his orphaned niece and nephew when he learns his estranged brother died unexpectedly. He decides to foster them. The show was going to be titled after the pilot, but CBS dropped plans before it launched in September, 1984.

Two things, R351- NO, you didn't and what the fuck does your made up story have to do with this thread?

The final episode of Laverne & Shirley was a backdoor pilot following Carmine as he moves to NYC to attempt a career on Broadway. I imagine Eddie Mekka would have welcomed being free of the mess L&S had become but I doubt the network was interested.

Trailer for Schooled.

Just when you think you’re alone and can flick your bean, you’re not.

R360 - teen me would definitely have watched an Eddie Mekka show. He was hot stuff!

Final episodes serving as backdoor pilots historically NEVER work.