Raymond Burr

Nope, he's the only Gay celebrity that registered absolutely zero on my Gaydar 🤔

Paul Drake was smoking hot though.

I had no idea. How did he navigate that time in entertainment being a gay man? I hope he was able to live his life and be happy outside of Hollywood.

I hope he had a fat thick cock and fucked his brains out. He was big and dreamy.

@r3, Yes, he had the same partner for 33 years and seemed quite happy. His Perry Mason co-stars kept his secret for many years

No, OP, we had no idea. He was in love with Natalie Wood after all.

Thank you R5, that's good to know. It really is.

My 72 year-old sister used to LOVE Perry Mason growing up in the 60s.

When she learned he was gay, that was the biggest shock of her life.

Didn’t Burr own an island upon which he frolicked?

Burr's gaydom completely clueless, big post-mortem surprise. Rock Hudson, EVERYFUCKINGBODY knew he was gay, including the Chukchi in remote Siberia.

According to my mother, my grandfather was business associates with him and they were going to invest into an island together.

No idea how true it is.

Also, my grandmother and step-grandmother both kind of looked like drag queens.

Made me wonder.

Wow R6, it must have gotten old, to have the Hollywood machine narrate your life to the public, especially when it wasn't true. I'm glad he found love and lived his life.

That boy's no fruit-he's as right as rain. He walked in my garden, he PLANTED THAT TREE!

Yes. My far right wing brother-in-law used to talk about it. He said Raymond Burr was married to Jim Neighbors. 😐

I was too young to watch Perry Mason, OP, but I remember the theme song drifting upstairs from the living room, where my parents were watching. In later years, when I watched reruns (as I still often do - it's a comfort show for me), I already knew he was gay, but I agree he didn't ping at all. If anything, he seems sort of asexual.

R5, I've heard that the PM set was a very happy set, and that all the regulars got along and liked each other, which is nice. Burr was also very loyal and would hire - or, I guess, influence the hiring of - actors he had known in earlier years just to give them some work.

Burr not only navigated life as a gay man in Hollywood, he made up a whole-ass dead wife and proclaimed his widowerhood, correctly surmising that no one would be curious enough to investigate.

Not just a dead wife but a dead kid, too. He really went balls to the wall.

I hate that he made up the dead kid. I loved watching him on Perry Mason - though I think it was reruns. Anyway, he was so butch! But no need to be a bastard about it. Makes me suspicious about his personality, going that far, to get sympathy I guess.

Nothing about Raymond Burr pinged. His voice, mannerisms and look never gave him away. I'm kind of glad, because all too often, especially on DL, it seems too easy to pick up on something that gives a celebrity away. I'm glad there's still some mystery and surprises left undiscovered in this world. Nothing more exciting than to find out an attractive man is Gay. Surprise Gay is the best 🙂

Old DL thread had a clip of him on Password and I believe it was suggested he seemed uncomfortable with the female contestant. Of course it could have just been him wanting to keep his professional distance. But back in the 60s being flirty and/or charming with female contestants was the norm so I suppose his reserve stood out a bit given he was handsome and single at the time. I believe his parents were in the audience.

I'm too lazy to go search for the DL thread or the clip but I'm pretty sure my memory serves me correctly in my recollection.

^^^ here it is

[quote]He really went balls to the wall.

Pics please.

His appearance and comments at the TV broadcast of the A Star I’d Born 1954 premiere says it all . Accompanied by a beard and a newly returned sailor from Korea.

[quote]I had no idea. How did he navigate that time in entertainment being a gay man? I hope he was able to live his life and be happy outside of Hollywood.

Seriously? Burr initially came to prominence in the 1950s. Do you think there were no successful closeted gay actors in the '20s, '30s and '40s?

Your question seems . . . naive.

Jump ahead to about 2:05 of this video and you'll see Raymond's trick to which R23 referred. Raymond Burr loved fucking with the press.

He made up TWO dead wives in addition to the dead child.

@r24, Don't be so rough, many Gay actors in the 50s hid behind fake marriages or struggled with booze and drugs in fear of being "found out" Burr seem to straddle that line successfully without playing the game. I admire him for that

I tried to pick up my father in the 1970s. We used to go to a used/antique book store on Hollywood Blvd. My father was looking for "HEADHUNTING IN THE SOLOMON ISLANDS AROUND THE CORAL SEA" which some how caught Raymond Burrs interest. What was odd was that Burr knew my father was there with his pre-teen son. It always made wonder if he knew something about my father I did not.

"He tried to pick up my father..." I should not post at 5:20 AM

R26, to have one dead wife is certainly unfortunate. Two have two dead wives plus a dead child begins to look like carelessness.

Burr seemed nice enough but he was happy to let people assume he was semi-closeted actor Laird Cregar's little brother, which garnered him some work after Cregar died.

Cregar went to great lengths to change his appearance from large character actor to thin leading man, and part of that meant he closeted himself. He hadn't bothered early on, but he made the mistake of speaking to the press about a gay man he knew who had been murdered at a restaurant Cregar frequented. The studio flipped and threatened to fire him, and he flew into the closet. Then he got the idea, largely from Merle Oberon, that he could be thin and handsome if he just wanted it enough, so he underwent a ton of plastic surgery at the same time he was on a starvation diet. George Sanders was one of his good friends and was horrified at what Cregar was doing to himself to try to achieve an ideal he simply couldn't ever reach. Cregar died after one of those surgeries, rumored to be weight loss surgery but no one really knows.

If Burr was at all familiar with Cregar's story, and I assume he was, because he got a few roles that had been earmarked for Cregar before he died, I can see him inventing dead wives and kids and thinking he was lucky to not have to go to even more extreme measures to keep studios and producers happy.

He also had a beard wife (a minor actress named Bella Ward) early in his career.

He was like me, just a normal guy!!

The media didn't even fact-check the fake wives and son until a few years after he died.

The first "wife" supposedly died with Leslie Howard when BOAC Flight 777 was shot down during WWII, but the passenger manifest didn't list anyone by her name ("Annette Sutherland").

It was a great ruse because anyone who tried to challenge him would have looked like a heartless asshole.

[quote]I tried to pick up my father in the 1970s.

Slut.

Old blind item from 2018:

[quote] Old Hollywood - A Reader Blind Item: This late actor was not out during his lifetime although there were always rumors. A made-up wife didn't help. Now everyone knows he was gay. He was in both TV and film. On TV, he was in two different crime related dramas, one of which was based on a series of books. In movies, he often played villains due to his size. His most famous role was probably the one from a film by this A++++ director in which he is observed for most of the movie by the main character. On USO tours early in his career he would share rooms with other actors. It was quite common for those other actors to wake up in the middle of the night to find this late actor performing fellatio on them. His response was "shhhh go back to sleep" and he would keep going. Actor: Raymond Burr

No, none of us knew he was gay "back in the day". Things like that were usually a closely guarded secret. And if the rumor had gotten out that he was no one would have believed it. Plus most of us were mere children back then, and speaking for myself, I didn't know from "gay". The only celebrity gay rumor I remember back from the old days was when the rumor got started (by a couple of vicious hateful Hollywood queens) that Rock Hudson & Jim Nabors had gotten married.

But I'll say one thing, when I found out Raymond Burr and Earl Holliman were gay it opened my eyes completely, and I have never been shocked since when finding out someone I never even considered could be gay really was.

R21- The host of the show was a big QUEEN 👸 too.

Total shocker. Always thought he was a handsome man.

How the hell should I know?

He never sucked MY cock.

Anyone who "knew" about gay things knew Burr was gay. His absolute nerve in making up marriages, dead wives, a dead child and the rest was considered ballsy, and Burr was famously loyal with people in the business, and they were loyal back. Plus, he made money for everyone, was a "big" personality, and covering a closeted celebrity was the norm for everyone.

I'm the poster who brings up an actor friend who was an acquaintance of Burr who was traveling with him on a USO tour and woke up to Burr giving him a blowjob.

He was shocked, and Burr kept going after murmuring, "Don't say a word. Don't say a word."

[quote]Eldergays, did you know he was a gay men, back in the day?

No we fat and / or ugly gays always got a pass

He was in that duel with Alexander Hamilton in New Jersey. Ha, and you thought I was ignorant about history.

[quote]But I'll say one thing, when I found out Raymond Burr and Earl Holliman were gay it opened my eyes completely, and I have never been shocked since when finding out someone I never even considered could be gay really was.

I had a huge gayling crush on Earl Holliman when he was on [italic]Police Woman.[/italic] I always assumed he was gay since he was rarely linked with women (he apparently bearded with, of all people, Dolores Hart before she became a nun).

[Quote]I had a huge gayling crush on Earl Holliman

R44 He's still alive, so you still have a chance with him!

I'd never heard of this actor. I'm European so this makes sense. I would have never guessed he was gay. Quite the hunk.

The husbear and I smoked weed and watched this episode, more like a movie. We enjoyed it. So many hot guys

Randolph Mantooth on The Love Boat ca. 1978. He was very good looking back then and did not ping at all.

[quote]Jim Neighbors.

Oh, dear.

R48- His mistake is SO bad - it's good.

Not only was he gay -- he was ... (gasp) CANADIAN!

Randolph Mantooth is gay?

R51- Yes. It's funny because the actor who plays his father in the episode of The Love Boat totally seems like a queen but Randolph Mantooth does not.

R45- He's 94 years old.

SO YOUNG

Olivia de Havilland

Randolph Mantooth is not gay.

It's funny to see this thread today, since yesterday I watched [bold]Raw Deal[/bold] (1958) in which Burr plays one of his many bad guys. (Really good movie, too. It stars Dennis O'Keefe and Claire Trevor, was directed by Anthony Mann, with cinematography by great John Alton. But I digress... )

When I was a kid, way back in the [italic]Ironside[/italic] days (circa 1970), the girl who was my neighbor told me that he was gay. If I remember correctly, she was told that by either her mother or older sister, both of whom were nurses. I suppose either he or his partner was in the hospital and the other came to visit or something like that. Anyway, I didn't believe it at the time. Homosexuals were people like Liberace or Paul Lynde; not manly men like Raymond Burr or Rock Hudson (who was another person my neighbor told me was gay). What can I say? I was young.

I once ran into Earl Holliman at the Sherman Oaks Galleria. This was around 1980. He was standing directly in front of me and my boyfriend as we waited in line at the movie theaters in the mall. He was there with two twinks, who were dressed in their 'All American Boy' uniform of the day. Anyone with with a half a brain could tell he was gay and what was going on among this little threesome. It kind of surprised me that he was quite that public.

R44, Holliman's longtime partner was Anthony George, best known for "Checkmate.." Tony missed Earl so much, he quit a New York soap to return to Hollywood.

Cruising on one of his USO tours?

He kind of reminds me of that extra-large gay guy named "Clay" who produces and acts in those 'Raunchy Bastards' and 'Boys Halfway House' videos.

R54- He IS gay.

In 1961, Perry added a Legal Aide to the team, David Gideon. Actor Karl Held appeared in nine episodes over two seasons. When he and Ray broke up as lovers, we never saw Karl again. Later Ray met Robert, the partner he was with until death.

Isn't Mantooth one of the actors who was allegedly very openly homophobic toward Kent McCord during the "Emergency" and "Adam-12" crossover? (The other actor doing it was said to be Kevin Tighe.) It got so bad that producer, Jack Webb, had to step in.

Kent McCord was gay?

I knew.

r60 Do his wives know?

Whenever I watch an episode, R46, I always notice how nice looking the guest actor of the week is and assume that Raymond spent some time on the casting couch with him. When a young Robert Redford popped up on an episode, I was especially intrigued. No way Raymond let him slip through his fingers.

[quote]His most famous role was probably the one from a film by this A++++ director in which he is observed for most of the movie by the main character.

His most famous movie role. His most famous role was Perry Mason.

R65- I also wonder if Ben Affleck's wives know about him

R63 "is"

He's still alive.

Karl Held wasn't gay.

[quote] In 1961, Perry added a Legal Aide to the team, David Gideon. Actor Karl Held appeared in nine episodes over two seasons. When he and Ray broke up as lovers, we never saw Karl again. Later Ray met Robert, the partner he was with until death.

Interesting. Didn't Burr also meet Robert on the set of Perry Mason?

Watching these old clips from Password, What's My Line, etc I was struck by how unattractive most celebrities were then Few of them would be able to enjoy that career today .... sadly.

NO way Kent McCord is gay. FUCK if it's so. When I was a young gayling, I had a fantasy of being thrown on the hood of a hot Coupe de Ville and then being cuffed and arrested by he and Milner on Adam -12. He was a such beauty on that show.

R72, it's interesting that you say that because I feel the opposite. Most of the celebrities who were known for being attractive back in, say, 1960, are much more attractive than today's celebs, especially the men. For one thing, they look like grown men, not overgrown boys.

Now, if you're talking about Bennett Cerf or DL fave Dorothy Kilgallen, perhaps that's true, but they were never presented as or meant to be seen as sex symbols.

R73, I'd like to see some evidence for that claim about Kent McCord, as well as for Karl Held, has nothing even slightly gay in his performance or public biography.

R55, Raw Deal is from 1948, not ’58. I only point that out because it would have been nearly impossible for Burr to make a movie during the early seasons of PM. They made 35 episodes a year. What a grind it must have been.

Otherwise, thanks for mentioning the movie. I love both Dennis O’Keefe – I think he’s sexy – and Claire Trevor, who’s always great, and I don’t think I seen this one. It’s on Amazon and goes on the watchlist today.

R36, blind item? 😂 That’s more like a 20/20 eyesight item. It’s obviously Raymond Burr and couldn’t possibly fit anyone BUT Raymond Burr.

Anyway, I can totally picture that happening and the other actor obediently going back to sleep because it’s Perry Mason. When Perry tells you to do something, you do it.

… unless you’re his client, in which case you lie through your teeth for some noble but misguided reason.

Karl Held was fired from the show because the fans hated him. They felt they he ruined the dynamic between the core three.

I wonder if Ray Collins was ever on the receiving end of a Raymond Burr blowjob?

R78, ironic because his character was brought in to appeal to a younger audience.

Held was extremely handsome and a good actor, but I agree with the fans. He was like a fifth wheel.

I lived in Sacramento and it was common knowledge that he and his partner had a place in Sacramento. That's when I first heard he was gay. I was one of those early 20s twinks who hung out with the old rich queens---they used to talk about him.

Neither Randy Mantooth (married since 2002, with another marriage before that) nor Kent McCord (married since 1962!) is gay.

R81 HERE---->>This was in the late 80s...When I heard the chatter it always involved he and his boyfriend. Never saw him though.

No. The only Hollywood scandal that I recall was when Lana Turner's daughter killed her mother's boyfriend, Johnny Stompanato. I was little but my grandmother was enthralled with that news.

Ray looked like he had a big thick one.

Next thing some of you foolish queens will be claiming that Kent McCord and Marty Milner were lovers, and they had 3ways with Jack Webb.

Jack Webb blew George Maharis.

Everyone blew George Maharis.

George is still alive. Can't we ask him who has blown him? He is only 94.

George looks like he has a big thick one, too. Yum, he was hot.

Damn, George must know EVERYTHING about the Hollywood gays of yesteryear. Why hasn't he written the book now that just about everybody is dead?

I think Burr lobbied to bring back the actor who played the DA after he was let go for being gay.

R58- I bet the HE man on the right had a nice cock.

R15 Understand what you mean about comfort shows. And the opening theme music to that show scared the crap out of me. I think the show came on when I was supposed to be asleep so I was a worried little baby gayling as it was. I remember hearing that opening from my parents bedroom tv . On especially fun nights, my parents might be screaming at each other. Time for another drinkipoo.

R21 Let's make a batch of something strong and watch those old game shows. That's amazing stuff. What happened to class?

R30 Absolutely agree.

R28 Show off

Lyle Waggoner made me gay.

R82- I have no doubt that you're the DAME who can prove it!

[quote]The opening theme music to that show scared the crap out of me.

It always made me think of a chorus line of jaded hookers shimmying their shoulders and bumping their hips.

Me, too, R100!

The story about Burr assaulting men in their sleep is creepy.

R100, it's a great theme. It's called Park Avenue Beat and was written for show by Fred Steiner. (What a Los Angeles lawyer - not to mention that hooker-shimmy sound - has to do with Park Avenue, who knows?)

R92, it was William Talman, who played DA Hamilton Burger, and he wasn’t let go for being gay. He was fired because he was arrested at a nudist party where people were supposedly smoking marijuana. The charges were all dropped, but CBS fired Talman anyway. There were guests of both sexes at the party, so I don’t think it was a gay thing; maybe a straight orgy, though. This happened toward the end of Season 3 (1959-60).

Burr and the production company did lobby CBS to bring him back. If you watch the episodes where he’s MIA, most of the substitute DAs are awful (no one was hired permanently for the role) and I think they deliberately hired some of the worst people they could find just to help the cause. Anyway, the public also protested vigorously, and Talman got his job back halfway into the next season, fortunately. It really wasn’t the same show without him.

I haven't memorized every post in this thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned yet, you should watch the Hitchcock film, "Rear Window" with Burr as one of Jimmy Stewart's neighbors across from Jimmy's apartment.

Small, but pivotal, role for Burr in the movie.

^^ yes, Burr is quite sinister in that role.

Stating the obvious, but "Rear Window" is the movie referenced in the blind item at r36.

When Burr injured himself, some famous Hollywood names filled in for him during his absence, including DL icon Miss Bette Davis, as someone named Constant (not Constance) Doyle.

Martin Milner had at least three uber-hot costars: George Maharis, Glenn Corbett, and Kent McCord.

R109- Martin Milner was quite good looking himself on Adam 12. He was also a good looking in that camp favorite

Valley Of The Dolls

[quote] Lyle Waggoner made me gay.

r98 Vicki Lawrence made me gay. One look at her and I gave up women forever.

Vicki Lawrence has been minding her business for years, and didn't need to be dragged into this R111

Can I really be the first to mention that PERRY MASON co-star and silver-haired fox William Hopper, the son of Hollywood gossip columnist and all-around neo-conservative homophobe Hedda Hopper, was also gay??

r112 Okay, but Lyle Waggoner should be objectified either.

Besides, what happened to the LGBT Establishment's holy Gay Gene Theory. How dare anyone say there are social factors which might make a boy gay?

Maybe it's been mentioned upthread but I always thought Burr made up the dead wives and child because the extremes of the story were so horribly sad and tragic, he couldn't be asked by reporters (or anyone) to expound on it all. And I think because his look and demeanor were so straight and brooding, everyone left him alone.

^ Exactly. If a journalist, etc., were to pry, he could just respond with something like, "I'm sorry, but I can't talk about that because it's too painful."

r113 There's never been any confirmation that Hopper was gay. He was married his entire adult life, and had a daughter. Not to say he might not have had gay experiences, but there's never been any evidence of them.

I honestly never knew that, r117. Somehow I've been hearing Hopper was gay all my long-lived life.

r177 r113 I fucked William Hopper. He was definitely gay. A big lady in fact.

He was a major lardo; he never pinged for me. When I found out he was gay, I thought OMG the weight of him, the horror, the horror

There are many lardos in bear culture. Some guys go for the XXXL.

The only people who had to know Burr was gay was the Hollywood police who would show up and ask him to turn down the volume on his well attended parties.

He pings in the same way Clooney does. It is a very muted ping but it is there.

Burr said that he weighed 12.75 pounds when he was born.

OUCH!

Buck knew.

With he showed up on the set in a crotchless wheelchair, we knew.

R71 According to the Burr biography Hiding in Plain Sight, the men were introduced to each other when Benevides delivered a script to Burr on set.

Robert was 13 years younger than Ray.

R119 Did he have a cigarette clenched in his teeth? Still wearing his shirt with tie slightly loosened. That's how I'm picturing it. Fuck yeah, that's how I'm picturing it.

Robert Benevides appeared on an episode of "The Outer Limits."

[Quote]Robert was 13 years younger than Ray.

That sounds about right.

No sign of his "wife."

Raymond Burr Vineyards

[quote]No sign of his "wife."

Her body was lost at sea.

A gay college professor of mine from the early 70s appeared in approximately 5 different Perry Mason episodes. I read somewere that Burr would see to it that gays were hired when possible ....... my professor was just Raymond's type.

I don't think Ray hired gays to fuck them. He was just a decent man who wanted to make sure people got work. Gays, old stars who weren't getting regular work, folks from B movies. It just sounds like he was a rare soul who actually tried to give back. His second series, Ironside, was a hit too.

Several years ago I saw pics of his house when it was for sale and it was the gayest decor I have ever seen. He was so masculine on TV but I have heard he wasn't very masc in private.

How did he do that? Turn the masc on and off.

I took voice lessons when I heard my gay voice on film. I'm 6'3" if you know what I mean. The lessons worked but I still let out a screech once in a while.

R92, he was not let go for being gay. He was let go after being charged with lewd conduct for being naked at a party where marijuana was present. The judge dismissed the charge and then CBS fired him without a reason. But the audience missed him and the replacements weren't cutting it. So the producer requested his return and got it.

R137 Well he is an actor after all. And he is playing a part that isn't gay. I heard he was very flamboyant in Real life. Good actor. He was my mom's favorite.

[quote]Future movie director Arthur Hiller was behind the camera for several early Perry Mason episodes. He was chatting with Raymond on the last day of filming one of those episodes when Raymond mentioned he wanted to renovate his house in Malibu but couldn't find a good contractor. Hiller, who was adding on a few bedrooms to his own house in West Hollywood,recommended the two men who'd been doing the work—one of them a huge Raymond Burr fan—and arranged for the men to drive out to Malibu on a Sunday.

[quote]"When the workers came to my house on Monday, I asked them how the meeting went on Sunday and they said 'fine,' but I could sense something was off-base," Hiller said. "They didn't have the enthusiasm that they had before, or which I expected. I kept at them, 'What's the matter?' Turned out they were going to do the work, but when they knocked and Raymond opened the door, he was wearing a pink bathrobe. And that put the one who just loved him away."

[quote]Raymond had been living a closeted life in Hollywood for over a decade without even the whiff of anything "untoward" about his lifestyle. Part of that had to do with his status as a supporting actor in the shadows, out of the spotlight's direct glare. Leading-man types—Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, and Errol Flynn among them—were grist for the rumor mill, but Raymond had always flown under the radar.

He had a great speaking voice, very alluring…

R80 the addition of Karl Held was definitely a play to bring in younger viewers, but the audience felt that he was taking time away from William Hopper (Paul Drake). It's funny how he disappeared after about nine episodes.

What did we think of the three police detectives? Lt. Tragg was a hoot in the first few seasons, but he was just too old for the role, and you could tell when his on-air time declined. Wesley Lau (Andy Anderson...who picked THAT name) was very by-the-book and humorless, but I liked him and found him to be strangely hot. For some reason, they replaced him in the last season with all-around utility actor Richard Anderson, who I just found boring.

Does anyone remember the public service commercial that William Talman made shortly after PM ended? Talman had cancer from smoking and was the first celebrity to bring it to the public's attention. He was in such bad shape that it took forever to get the commercial done. Talman died shortly afterwards.

I agree with the poster who described the show as "comforting". They were really entertaining and well-written, and I LOVED it when the climatic scene would always reveal the killer (who usually broke down on the witness stand screaming "Yes! I did It!"

Burr's second show (Ironside) was just as successful as PM, and lasted just about as long on air, but it's "Perry Mason" we all remember.

Speaking of Perry, when is season two of the HBO/Matthew Rhys version supposed to show up?

Barbara Hale was a loyal friend to Raymond often referring to him as her brother. She and Robert Benevides maintained a close friendship until her death.

[quote]Burr's second show (Ironside) was just as successful as PM, and lasted just about as long on air, but it's "Perry Mason" we all remember.

After "Ironside," Burr returned to the role of Perry Mason for a series of TV movies. He was pretty huge by then.

I went to a bachelor party for an engaged high school acquaintance in the early 80s. At the party his dad was talking about Burr, and said. "He's a well known, card-carrying homosexual." If I recall correctly there was talk that night about Burr being with another guy (not in an overt way, but the staff wasn't unaware) at Dunfy's Hyannis - a famous hotel on the Cape. So I guess some people knew.

*Dunfey's

R144, Barbara Hale seems to have been an extremely nice person, She was also a working mother with three children during the series. It must have been tough, given the grueling shooting schedule of TV shows in those days. Her son William Katt - who later starred in The Greatest American Hero - was only 6 when the series started.

Here's Part 1 of a multi-part interview with her. She's 92 in these, by the way.

[quote]"He's a well known, card-carrying homosexual."

When did they stop issuing cards for us?

R149, it's all electronic now. You get an app for your phone. Don't you have one?

[quote]it's all electronic now. You get an app for your phone. Don't you have one?

How embarrassing that I didn't know that.

Now Eldergays will be holding up the line. Arguing about the senior discount.

^ If my bones weren't so brittle, I'd beat your ass with my parasol.

Raymond Burr as a gay pirate on The Donny and Marie Show!

[28:30]

Match Game 78!

I'm guessing Charles Nelson Reilly wasn't his type.

R83 - Native Sacramentan here. He was a patron of McGeorge School of Law since he gave a commencement address there in 1960. He was instrumental in helping raise funds for the school's courthouse in the early 70s. He was a good friend of the school's Dean, who was the youngest dean in the country at the time of his appointment, and gay. My uncle used to own a popular restaurant at the time and Burr was a regular when he was in town. I used to work as a Girl Friday in a Law office of a McGeorge grad. Both mentioned him fondly. The lawyer was an open homophobe so Burr didn't give himself away when he was out of Hollywood. My uncle was casually homophobic (he'd do an occasional limp wrist) but nothing at all when he spoke of Burr.

r155, studio gays liked them hunky. I would think that a Roddy McDowall would be a femmy as Burr would go.

Thanks for posting the Match Game R155. Poor Raymond was so shy! But I'm not sure how you get a word in edgeways when you're new on that show and the others, esp the women, talk so much.

Reminded me how much I adored Charles Nelson Reilly RIP

70's fashion! .. Raymond's shirt on Match Game looks like he's ready to hit the disco!

[quote]Match Game 78!

With both Joyces: Elaine Joyce and DL legend Joyce Bulifant!

R150, I cannot tap an app and tap my cane at the same time.

It’s just not possible.

[quote]He was let go after being charged with lewd conduct for being naked at a party where marijuana was present.

He should've used the Reefer Madness defense.

R149 The actual original phrase was "Card-carrying Communist". A 1950s expression. I guess the dad was making a reference to that - and it was so weird, that's why I remembered it.

At any rate, back in those days in Mass it was common to hear rumors about gay celebs on the Cape, in the summer - especially staying at Dunfey's Hyannis. I also heard about Jim Nabors and Rock Hudson (from other people). I also heard that actor Kurt Kasznar, when he did summer stock on the Cape, was referred to as The Island Queen - the name of the ferry that goes to Martha's Vineyard from Falmouth. This was during the 70s or 80s and the rumors always came from straight people.

Kurt Kasznar was the real life daddy of departed DL Icon Susie Lee. I don't know if there are many posters still here who remember and read her posts about old Hollywood as eagerly as I did. She was very bright and informative, never nasty, eager to answer all of our questions when she had the info, and seemed to know, or at least know about, everyone, having grown up in Hollywood in the 1950s and 60s. She certainly never alluded to her father being gay, though he was a close friend of Tyrone Power.

R164 Thanks for your reply. I mentioned this before and someone (maybe you) gave me the same reply, more or less. The info/gossip came from a friend I acted with who told me when he was an intern at one of the summer theaters on the Cape, they all referred to Kurt K. by that nickname. Probably not because he was straight, but it's not for me to say.

Brett Somers was hands down the most masculine contestant on that Match Game episode

Barechested in a sauna, Charles is used to advertise the Man's Room!.... the Man's Room is plush. The decor is rich and masculine. the carpet is thick. The atmosphere is that of a private club...Travelling execs find it is the "best thing to happen to them all day:....you get the idea ............Charles Nelson Reilly for Rodeway Inns of America PRINT AD -- 1974

William Talman's 1968 American Cancer Society ad referred to earlier. He was only 53.

When I become God one of these days, I'm going to give all gay men X-ray vision so they can look through the clothes of any man they want. Including on movies, TV and still pics. You can thank me later.

Yikes! William Talman looked like he was 83 in that commercial, not 53.

Don't smoke!

[QUOTE] He was let go after being charged with lewd conduct for being naked at a party where marijuana was present

Mary!

I bet Angie Dickenson was at that party.

[quote]I bet Angie Dickenson was at that party.

Roddy McDowell would have known whether she was, but that killjoy mandated that all of his memoirs be kept under lock and key until the next Ice Age.

Did he and Montgomery Clift hook up on the set of "A Place in the Sun"?

More trivia: Raymond Burr had a great audition for Perry Mason, but was told he had to lose a lot of weight to get the role. He did, but over time on the show, he gained a lot of it back.

William Hopper also auditioned for the title role. His audition tape is out there somewhere. I saw it once , and he was pretty good, but much better suited to Paul Drake.

To those fans who watched Perry Mason a lot back in the day, didn't seem weird and predictable that every single episode ended with Perry solving the crime and exposing the perpetrator and Burger always losing the case? Did it ever vary from that? I was a little too young to watch the original series when it was on TV but my parents were big fans.

People haven't said much about Burr's acting. I've seen a lot of film noir since getting TCM and he was in quite a few of them. Most of the time he seemed very one-note, to me. Like a lot of ex-radio actors (William Conrad, e.g.) he tends to act with his voice. He doesn't seem to have many believable emotional reactions. He's not very natural or spontaneous. Perry Mason was the perfect part for him. He didn't have to show any particular emotional involvement with anyone, or any vulnerability. I think he was good as Thorwald in Rear Window (even though he has almost not dialogue and is seen at a distance), but terrible as the prosecutor in A Place In The Sun. His performance is so over the top, vs Clift, who's so real and natural.

Years ago someone here claimed that actor-turned-producer Mark Damon was one of Burr's boytoys

r175 Those audition videos are on the Perry Mason DVDs.

Oh, jesus, that obese slob William Conrad. The husbear and I smoked weed and watched Burr in Ironsides last night on Youtube. The script could not have been worse.

Then without our input Youtube moved on to the next vid which starred William Conrad as some kind of detective.

Poor Diana Muldaur had to kiss that lardo and feign attraction to him throughout. . We wretched.

These shows are Gold.

[quote]To those fans who watched Perry Mason a lot back in the day, didn't seem weird and predictable that every single episode ended with Perry solving the crime

Think of Perry as Miss Marple or Poirot, r176. You *expect* them to be the one who soves the mystery.

My mother socialized a bit with him when he was filming the later Perry Mason movies. She had him over to the house for dinner.

r180 That would have been "Cannon."

"Ironside" (not IronsideS) featured cutie Don Galloway.

[quote]We wretched

You is, r180.

[quote]Kurt Kasznar was the real life daddy of departed DL Icon Susie Lee.

"Kasznar died on August 6, 1979, one week before his 66th birthday, in Santa Monica, California. Ten months earlier, he had been diagnosed with cancer. He had no known survivors."

As if we can count on Wiki. Suzie Lee has an IMDB page. She was Kasznar's daughter.

Dl can lead to interesting reads... Kurt Kasznar's Wiki page is quite interesting. He led a life full of big changes and travels. Starting in Vienna, traveling to America to act, served time in the armed forces during WWII in the Pacific and then back to America.

His Broadway credits are impressive and he made a successful transition to TV.

He may have been gay (but every man is gay in DL-land), but he seems to have covered it well with two marriages (his first wife died, there was no divorce).

The "no survivors" is perplexing... is Susie Lee his biological daughter? Did he adopt her?

I loved Susie Lee. We grew up in the same world. The old threads were fun because we often had different perspectives. She knew Julie Andrews as a colleague; I knew Julie Andrews as the mother of a friend, etc. She was always gracious and acknowledged that my different perspective was valid. That said, the "no survivors" has been on Wiki for years. I never got a explanation.

What I found interesting on Kurt's Wiki page was the following

"Kurt Kasznar, Myrna Loy, Edward Mulhare and Ricardo Montalbán toured nationwide in John Houseman's production of George Bernard Shaw's Don Juan in Hell, playing 158 cities in six months."

That is approx 160 cties in 180 days.

What performers would tour their ass off like that today?

r155 Gene was the only straight guy on that set!

When Susie was active on here I know someone found an old article, possibly on Newspapers dot com, that listed her being with Kurt at an event when she was younger. I think she was a step-daughter and not bio daughter.

I was wrong about her being a step-daughter, Susie Lee was his bio daughter.

There's a lot out there about Susan Kasznar Worth so she's a real person, and Wikipedia's non-English language pages still have her listed as being his daughter.

I referred to Susie Lee as a "departed DL Icon" in my upthread post but I'd like to clarify that I meant departed from DL, not departed from this world. As far I know she's still alive, but if anyone here has any updates on Susie Lee, I'd be eager to hear them.

As I remember, after she'd been on DL for a while, photos of her and her family would start popping up. maybe she posted some of them, and they were all very attractive, her sons in particular. I told her that I'd actually worked with her stepmother Leora Dana, an old character actress in the 1980s, which she graciously acknowledged.

Of course, at the time, there were vicious trolls and idiots who would challenge everything she said and call her a fake (and worse), so eventually and unsurprisingly she left DL. But she was lovely and it was fun while it lasted.

He pinged, but in a manly way.

Jonathan Frakes has always reminded me of Raymond Burr.

R188 That was a touring version of the original show that starred Charles Laughton, Charles Boyer, Agnes Moorehead, and Cedric Hardwicke. It played on Broadway in the early 50s and then went on a similar tour of one-night stands, I think. At around the same time Laughton directed or produced The Caine Mutiny Court Martial with Henry Fonda, John Hodiak, and Lloyd Nolan, that toured in that manner (the director was Dick Powell officially but apparently Laughton took over).

So the New York Times obit that says there were "no known survivors" at the time of Kurt's death was also incorrect?

That's always bugged me, R176. The contempt and rage Burger and Tragg felt for Perry was nonsensical to me. They acted like he used crooked and dishonest methods to set Jack the Ripper free to run the streets every week. Perry never proved his client innocent without coming up with the actual culprit, effectively doing their job for them. Seems to me the D.A. and cops should have been investigated for prosecuting the wrong person 99% of the time for all those years. Then you had the episodes where Burger needed Perry to defend one of his friends who was falsely accused, and then he'd be slopping sugar all over Perry in gratitude.

But in spite of it all, you often saw them at the end of the episode having dinner or drinks together and having a good ol' kiki. I think after the tenth or twelfth time someone threatened to have me disbarred and thrown in prison, I'd tell them to fuck off.

[quote] That is approx 160 cties in 180 days. What performers would tour their ass off like that today?

The most I could handle is 120 cities in 135 days.

I saw that production, r188, and got them all to sign my program. Werner Klemperer was supposed to be in it but was replaced by Kaznar. My dearest friend Tina got flustered over meeting Mr. Mulhare, but he assured her that he found her...*delicious*.

I saw Edward Mulhare in My Fair Lady when I was 6.

But did he call you *delicious*, r199?

Leave him alone. He was not gay. He just never got over the tragic loss of his wives and child!

Is Raymond Burr one of the few stars who went to such elaborate lengths to create a backstory as a cover? The only other one I can think of offhand is Merle Oberon, who claimed to be Tasmanian and even had to participate in some celebration honoring her in Tasmania, and fake everything, when she was Anglo-Indian from Bombay (Mumbai). Any other gay stars who made up stories of fake marriages and clidren like Burr? It seems crazy.

*children

R202, Theda Bara and her "Egyptian" background

She wasn't gay, but there were stories floating about years ago that Peruvian singer Yma Sumac, who supposedly had a five-octave range, was an Incan princess.

R204. Oh yeah - interesting. Wasn't that more studio publicity, though, that she later had to try to live up to? I realize she was apparently hiding that she was Jewish. Though I'm not sure why. Al Jolson didn't have to hide that he was Jewish, for ex. Anyhow, Burr seems to have created his own fake backstory. It seems more elaborate than strictly necessary. Couldn't he have just claimed to have been divorced? A dead child? What the hell. Then to have to tell that over and over and get people's sympathy, probably. Ugh.

Sumac was born Zoila Augusta Emperatriz Chávarri del Castillo

I love this Perry Mason scene, when he got this Mary in the courtroom to admit he was the culprit. (At 1:18)

Theda Bara's back story was created by Fox as they proceeded to make her a star. Her image was that of a heartless vamp, initially a supporting role and villainess in her first films but she became so immensely popular, the studio began starring her in her own films as a kind of anti-heroine, certainly the first of her kind in Hollywood history. It wasn't so much about hiding her Jewish roots as presenting her as a symbol Arab Death, which was, of course, an anagram of her made up name. Her real name was Theodosia Goodman and she was from Cincinnati, the well-bred daughter of a Jewish tailor.

As a teen apprentice I was Edward Mulhare's dresser in 1970 in a Maine summer stock production of a British sex farce called The Secretary Bird, opposite the exquisite Inga Swenson. He was perfectly nice and always smelled distinctly of gin and lime.

Godzilla made him gay!

R208 That actor was Ben Cooper. I think he was gay.

*(not sure)

Susan Worth is the stage name of Susan Lee Kasznar, who is listed on IMDB as the daughter of Kurt Kasznar and Cornelia Woolery, born in 1945.

The only episode of Perry Mason I remember is one that took place on some kind of wealthy isolated estate and Perry was one of a group of guests. A murder is committed and Perry, of course, solves the crime and exposes the murderer. I think Mary Astor was a guest star. It stood out for me, of course, because there were no courtroom scenes and was more an old-fashioned whodunnit.

Anyone else remember that one?

It seems weird there should be all this controversy about Susan Lee Kasznar (Worth) and her parentage. Her father was not some obscure person but a well known character actor.

R216 If he was her father.

He was her...Uncle Max...

Back in the day (Dark Ages) my family was connected to in-the-know Hollywood types. We were aware of the closeted gays, to which Burr was connected.

R219, who were the other closeted gays that you were aware of?

R219 Yeah, we already know about Burr - who else?

Natalie Wood, of all people, used to beard for him.

r215 Mary Astor was never on "Perry Mason." She was, however, on an episode of "Burke's Law." Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Hmmmm.....well, I guess Mary Astor did not appear in that episode of Perry Mason, but I'm wondering if anyone remembers it as I described at r215? I'm remembering that particular episode because it was so different from all the others. Guessing it was around 1960.

R224 Was it this one?

Thanks for responding and doing some research, r225, but I don't think the plot description matches what I recall. IIRC, the episode takes place on a wealthy isolated estate, no police nearby, and the guests/suspects are rich idle people. Hosted by a rich matron. played by a former movie queen. maybe she's even the murderer but I don't remember. Very Agatha Christie vibe. I don't think Barbara Hale and William Hopper are in the episode unless maybe at the end as a wrap up of Perry recounting what happened.

R226 Well if you really want to find it, here's the list of all the episodes.

It never entered my mind. But when my grandfather teased my grandmother about watching "that sissy" Liberace, I countered that he watched "that sissy" Jack Benny. I was a smart little one.

R228 Why, was Jck Benny gay?

r226 How about this one for Mary Astor. 1960, and she plays an aging actress.

No, r229.

Have to watch that one, r230...

R229 When a five year old gets that vibe, I trust it.

R233 Well good luck proving that your vibe at age 5 about someone on TV is proof they're gay.

R215, I think you’re conflating a two things. The Case of the Howling Dog (1934) was one of the early Perry Mason movies. It was the first of a series of films where Perry was played by William Warren. Mary Astor did star in the picture along with Warren. Astor did a lot of TV in the ‘50s and early ‘60s, but as far as I can tell, she never appeared on Perry Mason. I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if any of it takes place in a remote mansion.

Twenty-five years later, the same title, but with what seems to be a completely different story, appeared as an episode on the Perry Mason TV series. It was Season 2, Episode 23, aired April 11, 1959. In this case, the lead actress was Ann Rutherford, who might be your "ex-movie queen", although she wasn't quite at the level of Mary Astor. I remember this episode; it doesn't take place in a mansion.

Does the episode you remember feature a faulty elevator, by any chance, that Perry eventually uses to find the real killer? If so, it's The Case of the Meddling Medium (S5 E6, October 21, 1961). As I recall, most of that episode takes place in a somewhat remote mansion, with no Paul or Della. The matriarch of the family is played by Virginia Field, who did appear in many movies and had a very grande dame way about her, although she was never a big star. Field was a prolific TV performer, though, including six appearances on Perry Mason. I guess Raymond Burr liked her.

^^Ann Rutherford appeared in four PM episodes. She was in her 40s at that point and looked great,

Oh, dearing myself.

It's obviously time to go to bed. The actor in those early PM films was Warren William, not "William Warren."

During my senior year of high school, I used to do errands/chores for an elderly couple once a week who were loose family friends. They were in their late-eighties and couldn't drive anymore, so I'd get their groceries and help them with odds and ends around the house, but I think really more than anything else, they just wanted company. I would often sit with them and watch old TV reruns, which they had playing 99% of the day. "Perry Mason" was in frequent rotation. They both LOVED that show.

One day, the wife turned to me and said, "Did you know Raymond Burr was gay?" I was surprised. "No, I didn't," I responded (mind you, this couple was semi-religious). "Oh yes, he was with a man for many, many years," she continued. "He was a great actor. You know, some people are gay. And if they love each other, why does it matter?" She proceeded to tell me that she thought it was "hogwash" that gay couples couldn't get married (this was in 2009).

I found out later through subsequent conversations that her stepson (her husband's son from his first marriage) was gay and had been in a decades-long relationship with a man. This was reassuring to me as an awkward closeted teenager, especially after having had to sit around the dinner table at my uber-religious great aunt and uncle's house while they talked about voting on the basis of candidates being "against the gays". Prior to that, most of the old people I'd encountered in my life had proven to be very homophobic.

Long story short, in a strange way, Raymond Burr and those "Perry Mason" reruns brought to me the awareness that, at least some of my elders wouldn't intrinsically despise me. In retrospect, I have to wonder if the old lady had a sharp gaydar (she was from LA) and was trying to "tell me something". I continued to do errands for them for the rest of that year until her husband died, and until she eventually did too. They were good people.

^ great annecdote

Lovely post, r238. Thank you.

And thanks to posters who are trying to help me identify that non-courtroom episode of Perry Mason. None of the suggestions so far are ringing a bell. But I appreciate your efforts. It definitely wasn't that early film with Warren William or the Thriller episode.

Thriller, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits and, of course, The Alfred Hitchcock Hour - an entire thread could be written about them and the scars they left on DL childhoods, lol.

[QUOTE] Back in the day (Dark Ages) my family was connected to in-the-know Hollywood types. We were aware of the closeted gays, to which Burr was connected.

Wow, that's some real tea there.

I found out that Burr was gay by listening to Howard Stern. Howard's dad was a sound engineer and ran a studio. Burr would come into his studio to do recordings.

[quote] During my senior year of high school, I used to do errands/chores for an elderly couple once a week who were loose family friends.

Please keep your opinions of their morals to yourself.

[quote]Thriller, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits and, of course, The Alfred Hitchcock Hour - an entire thread could be written about them and the scars they left on DL childhoods, lol.

I saw the original broadcast of "An Unlocked WIndow" on "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour" when I was a child and was traumatized for days. I couldn't even get to sleep at night.

I recently started getting Me TV again and have been watching episodes of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents," his 30-minute series. So many of the endings are relentlessly grim, it's hard to believe the series was from the "Leave It to Beaver" era.

R244 They could get away with grim endings because they cleverly had Hitch explain later that all the right people were punished, or whatever.

We long for the days when you couldn't mention pregnancy, cancer, or going to the bathroom on the boob tube.

[Quote][R208] That actor was Ben Cooper. I think he was gay.

He looked gay, but I couldn't find anything saying he was, or rumored to be. He was married with two children, but that, of course, doesn't prove he wasn't. Maybe the DL sleuths can find this out.

No, I couldn't find anything either, I think it was just some older gay friend who told me and it may have just been presumption there, too. I've seen him in old movies and he pings to me but that doesn't mean anything.

[quote]R244 They could get away with grim endings because they cleverly had Hitch explain later that all the right people were punished, or whatever.

I'm aware of Hitch's "all the bad guys were caught" comments just before the final credits. I wasn't questioning how they "got away with it." I was just surprised at how consistently dark the series was, considering that it premiered in 1955, There were, of course, occasional comedic episodes.

Burr did own an island in Fiji a pineapple and tropical fruit plantation of some sort. He eventually sold it sometime in the 70s.

I can't believe nobody has even asked what she prepared for dinner.

Erle Stanley Gardner learned to control how Perry and other characters were depicted in film, on radio, and later TV. Early on he was often disappointed with what was produced.

Abbr text from Wiki: The show was originally conceived as the daytime television version of Perry Mason, which was popular in novel and radio formats at the time. Mason's creator Erle Stanley Gardner was to create and write the show, but a last-minute tiff between the CBS network and him caused Gardner to pull his support from the idea. CBS insisted that Mason be given a love interest to placate daytime soap opera audiences, but Gardner refused to take Mason in that direction. ...

In 1956, a writer from the Perry Mason radio show, Irving Vendig, created a retooled idea of the show for daytime television—and The Edge of Night was born. John Larkin, radio's best identified Perry Mason, was cast as the protagonist-star, initially as a detective, eventually as an attorney, in a thinly veiled copy of Perry Mason.

[quote] Burr did own an island in Fiji a pineapple and tropical fruit plantation of some sort

OK, Now I understand why my father's interest in the Solomon Islands got Burr's interest.

R46 thinks "European" is an explanation for not know Raymond Burr but manages to stick a "husbear" in.

The DL does not believe in "Europeans" except as a category of people with body odor and national cuisines that are being lost.

You're Polish, right? Nothing to be ashamed of. Even with so many fascist Catholics there.

R249 I guess if you think everything on 50s TV was sweetness and light you've been misinformed. There were many heavy or tragic dramatic anthology shows. Hitchcock's shows grew out of his reputation as the master of suspense (film) and the widely-read magazine fiction of the time that had murder-suspense-mystery as a theme.

So true, r255.

So many of those weekly anthology TV shows of the 1950s dealt with serious and controversial material, like Playhouse 90, The Alcoa Hour and The General Electric Theater. I was too young to watch but can remember even today the musical scoring that would accompany each week's stories drifting into my bedroom and how they kept me awake in my childhood imagination, quaking with dread at night.

He's got a secret!

"He digs cats!"

See, I told you he liked pussy!

He didn't register as anything - not straight, homo, or asexual. He was just an overweight actor with a good speaking voice. I'm an EG and only know him because my mother loved Perry Mason!

[quote] I have to wonder if the old lady had a sharp gaydar (she was from LA)

R238 I'm laughing! Only big city old ladies have sharp gaydar? You need to meet my small town aunties!

R259 EG Marshall?

[quote]So many of those weekly anthology TV shows of the 1950s dealt with serious and controversial material

I have to admit that I'm addicted to those old TV shows. You can find a lot of YouTube. There was no real T&A and cursing, but some of the stories were pretty dark and the black and white just added to it, IMO.

R259, How can you be an EG and not know him as Ironside?

What is an EG?

She made one of her specialties - Cornish game hens stuffed with wild rice.

R264, I'm guessing elder gay.

R266 Oh, thanks. I don't do well with abbreviations.

R9 R11 R250 The island was off Fiji and is called Naitaba. In the attached article, Benevides recounts the story of them going there (and how they got to it) in 1965. They sold it in 1985.

(It's apparently home to some spiritual leader who uses it as his ashram now.)

[quote]Oh, thanks. I don't do well with abbreviations.

That can be a real handicap on DL, which loves abbreviations, especially incomprehensible ones.

Ben Casey didn’t premiere until 1961, thus not the ‘50s, but it often had dark themes and sad or bittersweet endings. Despite his hairy-chested good looks and prodigious quantities of testosterone, Dr Casey couldn’t cure everyone.

Unfortunately, the series has never been remastered, so only a few grainy DVD’s are available, but Ben Casey stands up remarkably well. It’s well written, powerful and emotionally engaging. Seeing what medicine was like back then – more advanced than you might have thought – is also interesting.

R270 I remember my mom used to watch it. And when it came to dramas she only liked quality shows.

An Emmy for Miss Stanley, r270...

I'm not sure Vince Edwards was ever really served well by Ben Casey, even if it made him an overnight TV sensation. His body was too sexy to be confined in those intern smocks. Did they ever get him shirtless? Not IIRC. Though he did surly well, he actually could be very warm and entertaining as seen in clips from The Hollywood Palace and What's My Line?

Vince & Liza!

Even Dr. Casey's exposed hairy arms were almost too much for television!

Cute, but kinda tiny meat.

Burr was mostly monogamous, so he was able to keep it secret.

Hudson wanted to leverage his handsomeness and his fame to fuck every hot gay boy in Los Angeles, and he succeeded. But the down side was they would not keep the secret (who would keep it secret that they slept with what of the handsomest and best built men in Hollywood), so everyone knew.

And everyone knew Jim Nabors was gay too because he was so femmy. But that's a different story.

R277, I was a guest at the Rock Hudson-Jim Nabors wedding in 1971. I was just a tyke, but I served as the (cock)ring bearer.

Just kidding. My parents would never have let me travel all the way to Hawaii by myself. But, yes, everybody who cared about Hollywood gossip knew about both Hudson and Nabors long before 1971. If you didn't know, it was either because you were a see-no-evil fan or someone who held gossip in contempt (and thus are clearly not at the DL).

Anyone who watched Gomer Pyle for 10 minutes could tell Jim Nabors was gay. My dad said it without hearing any gossip about it.

My dad also always said Tony Perkins was gay. Not rocket science.

Your dad obviously knew a gay man when he saw one, huh?

My dad certainly thought I was gay even when I was quite young. He was right, of course.

R281 He knew an asshole when he saw one, too.

[Quote] Nope, he's the only Gay celebrity that registered absolutely zero on my Gaydar 🤔

For real?

[auote]Montalbán toured nationwide in John Houseman's production of George Bernard Shaw's Don Juan in Hell, playing 158 cities in six months."

And this is what wore his leg down a decent eight inches or so.

Not everybody knew he was gay. I saw a documentary where male guest stars would suddenly find themselves in a completely unexpected sexual charisma from Burr, so he was fairly predatory and shameless when he wanted to be.

Feel the passion!

R287 Bad link for me.

Why do you folks think he was an unobtrusive male?