She Said Bombs

Lifetime movie stuff. They did a book. Promoted it on the talk show circuit. Won their Pulitzer. What more do we need to know about this episode?

Made by the same people who knew about Weinstein and kept silent. People didn’t want to see this? I’m shocked.

Who said bombs?

Not a good time for depressing movies.

People want uplift right now. Not some depressing story with non-stars.

“It’s a tough sell,” says Shawn Robbins, chief analyst with Boxoffice Pro. “People are looking for escapism right now. Even adult audiences are looking for something that takes them away from reality.”

“She Said” has a lot of company when it comes to well-reviewed movies that have collapsed on the shoals of audience indifference. One by one, this year’s crop of Oscar contenders have flopped or, at best, under-performed. There’s “Tár,” a drama about sexual harassment in the world of classical music that has eked out $4.9 million in seven weeks of release; “Armageddon Time,” a coming-of-age film that has only managed to generate $1.8 million after a month in theaters; and “Triangle of Sadness,” a satirical look at the one-percent that has crawled to a $3.8 million gross since opening in mid-October. “The Banshees of Inisherin” and “Till” have done slightly better, earning $7.1 million and $8.5 million, respectively, but their results aren’t exactly igniting the box office; they both will likely struggle to turn a profit in their theatrical runs.

“Across the board, it’s a scary time for prestige films,” says Jeff Bock, an analyst with Exhibitor Relations. “We may be witnessing a sea change in cinema. Ultimately, audiences decide what gets made and right now audiences aren’t choosing to watch these films in theaters.

She Said = shitty name about a not feel good subject

Don't drop bombs!

Privately, studio executives point to a number of culprits. They say this year’s awards films are too arty, too depressing, too lacking in A-list talent to convince crowds to show up. And they note that there have been success stories earlier in the year — notably “Elvis,” which was aimed at adults and earned an impressive $286 million globally, and “Everything Everywhere All at Once,” a multiverse head trip that has racked up $103 million worldwide while being perceived as artistically bold.

But those films didn’t have to compete with a glut of other prestige fare, which could be further fracturing an already shrinking audience base, one that may be wary of hitting up cinemas during COVID.

“There’s a lot of films chasing an audience that may be a little reticent about returning to theaters,” says Paul Dergarabedian, senior media analyst for Comscore. “It may be a little too much of a good thing

I would not watch this if it were an old-time TV Movie of the Week.

How it got financing to be a theatrical release, I have no idea.

The marketing isn't that compelling, either: The commercials are just a couple of cat ladies ringing doorbells.

R2 and R4 got it right. Everywhere I’ve seen people say they don’t want to see it either because of Pitt’s name being on it or because they want escapism with their entertainment, not more depressing shit.

No one is interested in a trauma narrative about actresses being asked to suck a dick in exchange for a three picture deal. Too low stakes.

Precious had real problems and the box office reflected that.

Americans are not going to run to theaters to see a movie starring Zoe Kazan and Carey Mulligan, talented as these women may be.

I watched the trailer and nearly fell asleep. The subject matter couldn't be more meh. Honestly not trying to downplay Weinstein's sleaziness but currently there are bigger things in the world to worry about rn and those that need an escape from all of those things aren't going to watch this film. Plus it was all 3 years ago and those who were actually interested in the story to begin with, outside of click bait twitter drama while you're waiting for your dentist appointment, already know everything.

Lack of star power helped but also there's no hook, or implied entertainment in the trailer, just a very straight forward and somewhat pious and earnest journalistic investigation. And yes having 2 relatively unknown women as the leads didn't help.

Of course, the fact that it's a Hollywood oscar baity movie (the kind Weinstein would have bent over backwards to produce) patting itself on the back for "exposing" something they knew about for years on end might have not sat write with some people either.

I dont buy the whole "People want escapism" argument either, at least not fully. People will (occasionally) go to a deeper, drama based, "realistic" film that touches harder subjects if either the trailer/marketing/hype resonates with them. This one just didn't.

I agree, R15. It doesn’t play as well when people in the audience are broke and angry. I’m sure many of them thought “Hell, I’d suck THREE dicks for ONE movie” so the approach and timing is tone deaf.

This would be like expecting people to come to a movie about the trauma of having a big dick.

[quote]I dont buy the whole "People want escapism" argument either, at least not fully.

How's " Wakanda Forever" doing at the box office?

No mulligan for Carey!

Couldn’t happen to a more self-righteous bore than Carey Mulligan.

R19: Or nepo baby Zoe Kazan.

$550M worldwide going on week 2 R12.

For a Marvel movie, it is fine but not great. Black Adam probably won’t hit $400M, which is downright embarrassing.

The Menu did fairly well for the size of its budget.

How they ever got a $32M budget for a film led by Zoe Kazan is a mystery.

I think I’d rather watch a film about the making of this film that punctures the sanctimony.

I'm not going back to the movie theater. Even before covid, it could be a challenging experience.

At one showing I attended, someone started yelling at two guys for talking during the film.

It escalated to a shouting match with insults and threats exchanged.

I will stream at home

R23. Good. Never leave the house. You loser.

[quote]Lack of star power helped but also there's no hook, or implied entertainment in the trailer, just a very straight forward and somewhat pious and earnest journalistic investigation.

The same could be said of "Spotlight", but I think one of aspects that made that movie compelling is that while everyone is certainly against child abuse, the idea of going up against the (then) powerful Catholic Church and the Boston establishment created some discomfort & soul searching for the very human, flawed reporters & editors. On the face of it, this movie just looks like "Do Gooders: The Movie"

Nobody cares about Me Too anymore. It's old news.

It’s a terrible title, too. Sounds like a political screed. No one wants a lecture when they go to the movies.

All the commercial negatives aside, it’s actually a good movie. It’ll probably do well on streaming, which is where it should have been released in the first place.

" Spotlight" was well written and acted.

Is there any campy portrayals of famous Weinstein accusers? I’d love to see a terrible Rose McGowan impersonation.

Who plays Ronan?

And in a few weeks Women Talking’s even worse box office performance will make She Said look like a success story.

R25 child sexual abuse done by members of the Catholic church hits way deeper than Hollywood hopefulls being propositioned/blackmailed on the casting couch into giving blow jobs...sorry, but true.

And I saw Spotlight and thought it was ok, but it did have a few moments of humor, of character exploration, not to mention a much more varied cast with both men and women, some famous, some not.

This seemed in the trailers, and word of mouth agrees, a very dull, straight forward investigative movie with very one dimensional characters.

They should rerelease this with Bros as a double bill for 4 hours of constant audience lecturing.

Priests abusing altar boys is the ostensibly very pure destroying the purely innocent.

This is a gross, ugly dirt bag using (what many Americans see as) gross, pretty whores to get everyone exactly what they want.

No comparison to the pathos.

It was produced by Brad Pitt, who had known about Gwyneth and Angelina’s incidents for years and still did business with him.

It's called the oldest profession in the world.

For good reason.

I had no plans to watch it—and I'm a woman. But it's received such great reviews, I'm going to see it in the theater this weekend.

The Bros double feature is an excellent idea!

Audiences are trapped between the onslaught of superhero trash and social issue movies that try to lecture them at Oscars time.

Which is why audiences paid to watch a romantic comedy with real old time movie stars like Julia Roberts.

I'm uninterested in stories about hookers who aged out the game and have reconstructed their choices as abuse

If I'm going to endure the unpleasantness of a movie theater, the film has to require a big screen to tell its story. "She said" doesn't.

It doesn't mean Weinstein's victims are whores (Thanks, DL incels.) It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the movie. I'm sure I'll enjoy it when it streams in 3-6 months. It does mean that a different sort of movie is required for theatrical release.

In every interview I have seen, they keep saying how this movie is just like “All the President’s Men!” Except it isn’t. And has none of the star power.

I can get mildly outraged for free.

No thanks.

Everything there is to say about this case has been said. The only thing I'm curious about is who Samantha Morton plays. Does she play herself?

I actually really like Zoe Kazan. She's a really good actress and has earned her merits all on her own. But her role choices tend to be dull as dirt.

Jennifer Lawrence called it the best date movie ever.

Between Covid and streaming, the last couple years have altered what people will go to a theater to see.

I keep hearing of those hallyhoo’d films that run 2.5+ hours. That’s stuff I’d only watch at home, where I can break it into two viewing sessions.

But I think most of us don’t see much of a difference between these art films and some of the stuff that’s made directly for streaming. So why should I be expected to leave the house and sit with other loud people for stuff that does not need to be seen on the big screen?

Terrible idea, but if they had campy versions of all the stars involved, I'd probably be sold. Just something fun and flashy.

It's show business, not NPR...

But I'll stream it for free for sure.

R44, I didn’t know Samantha Morton was in it! I fucking love her. She’s apparently batshit crazy IRL, but I think she’s an excellent and underrated actress.

Samantha Morton is Excellent. Everyone in the cast is. And the director did a great job making phone scenes and interview scenes that could have been boring or redundant compelling. Well done.

Can't say I'm surprised when I see the stills they always chose to talk about this film. 2 serious faced women on the phone is hardly enticing.

Don't wanna see preachy films about a pay to play scheme made by people who are complicit and benefited from it.

That includes that ridiculous narrative concerning MeAgain Kkkelly.

They did everything to get that career, including all the things reasonable people WOULD NOT DO and now want to reconstruct the narrative as abuse.

No.

The box office for this makes Bros look like Independence Day.

Carey Mulligan and Zoe Kazan together don't add up to one full human being. It's like casting your film with invisible ink. Mulligan is like a glass of curdled milk, and Kazan is every bad habit of Geraldine Page without a central nervous system attached.

Cannot imagine how this flopped.

Who said what now?

I can never get into journalism movies for some reason. And the story itself is just not very interesting, just skeezy.

I agree about journalistic movies. A film has to have more than an investigation to make me want to watch. If there's nothing in the film I can't learn by watching a documentary or reading a wikipedia entry then why bother. Maybe if I didn't already know about it I could get into it, if the stakes were higher and morr compelling. Otherwise...pass.

Haven’t you heard - THIS MOVIE IS JUST LIKE ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN!!!

A movie about cunts, by cunts, presumably for cunts. The problems is that even women don't want to go watch this crap. Women want to see muscular guys take their shirts off.

The nature of film going has changed. We not only have more options available, we have an audience that has become comfortable watching video on their comparatively teeny-tiny screens, wants to stop the screening at will, and has become accustomed to shorter formats and accordingly shorter attention spans. Does this sound like going to the movies?

I think the social aspect of moviegoing is an anachronism. As a teenager and young adult, my friends and I would go see a movie and talk to the people sitting around us, maybe even invite them to hang out afterward. I met a lot of people at the movies — or at least I did until the mid-90s when theaters began trying to make the auditorium more like a living room. And it was great! Until it wasn't.

Covid came along and was, IMHO, the final nail in the theatrical release coffin.

Being social is now a solitary activity with a phone in your hand. Moreover, it's hard to film yourself in a dark theater.

The last movie I went to see in a theater was Bros. I went because I wanted to see it, wanted to support the first major Hollywood gay romcom, and wanted to see Luke Macfarlane splashed across the giant screen as much as possible (having seen some of the previews). It was shown in a tiny theater with ~30 seats. The screen was barely larger than the TV in my family room, and the sound quality did not match my home sound system (not boasting; it was just bad). Someone in the row in front of hubby and I fucked with his phone throughout the movie. Others wandered in and out of the auditorium. On the walk out to the car, I said to hubby "I don't think I'll go see any more movies in the theater."

I'm not complaining; just making observations. The nature of film going has changed.

[quote]Carey Mulligan and Zoe Kazan together don't add up to one full human being. It's like casting your film with invisible ink. Mulligan is like a glass of curdled milk, and Kazan is every bad habit of Geraldine Page without a central nervous system attached.

I don't agree about Mulligan, and yet I love this description of both actresses anyway.

I saw the poster for this on the side of bus in London. Wow. What a terrible graphic design. It looked more like an office supply ad or a temp recruitment service.

This would have done better on streaming.

Because everything is so fkin expensive nobody wants to sit thru a 2 hour Wesleyan lecture, no matter how well made, about a topic we done already read 12 editorials about.

It looks super boring. Very “made for HBO movie,” circa 1994.

I quite liked it. Filled with really good actresses. So there.

Who plays Ronan Farrow?

Ronan Farrow probably.

Ronan is mentioned, but doesn’t appear. I’d like to think that if he were a character in the movie, Mia would find a way to Joan Crawford herself into the part.

And I liked it more than I thought, but it still feels a bit inconsequential. It doesn’t demand a theatrical viewing, whereas even smaller movies like Tar or Armageddon Time can make that case.

Everyone is going to watch it, when goes on streaming and at home viewing platforms. It will make the money back via the utiluzation og all the newer distribution/ viewing methods.

think this through.

Sure, Jan.

There were great scenes in She Said. The guy playing Matt Lauer chasing the chick around his locked dressing room in fast motion to The Benny Hill Show music, and Charlie Rose “accidentally” dropping his robe to the floor to the sound of a slide flute as a running gag were my favorite parts. It was much better than Bombshell.

I saw the trailer for this awhile back and it looked like hot garbage—trite, preachy dialogue and seriously bad acting. Who thought Zoe Kazan was capable of carrying a movie anyway? Carrie Mulligan too, for that matter.

She Shed?

What a snoozy cast. The only thing missing is Katherine Waterston in a no nonsense bowl cut, playing an inconsequential supporting role.

R70 " Joan Crawford her way into the part ". Fuck, I wish I had thought of that line.

[quote]Kazan is every bad habit of Geraldine Page without a central nervous system attached.

Damn, you're right.

From the previews, it seemed like one of those faux-feminism movies. And with people like Amber Heard and Anthony Rapp being exposed for using sexual assault accusations to further their own careers, the #MeToo movement has died. Pre-pandemic it might have interested people, but not anymore.

Reading through this thread I had no idea that Harvey had internet access.

R79 Hi Kevin and Johnny 👋

What did they use to represent Harvey Weinstein's fish-like penis?

Nemo

Mia already Joan Crawforded her way into The Watcher.

R76 genius comment!!

No one’s dragging their asses to pay $60+ for tickets for two for two tickets, snacks and fuel:parking to see Carey Mulligan and Zoe Kazan in an earnest docudrama in the current financial and public health climate. Of course it flopped hard.

Even Bombshell had to get the glossy Jay Roach treatment and star no less than Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman and Margot Robbie to get into cinemas.

It probably would have worked very well to cast two mousy critical darlings in a limited series like The Dropout or The Loudest Voice.

R75 She Bop?

These films are all just the absurd fantasies of suburban dorks, they're shitty and unrelatable

I didn't even watch Bombshell

R88 No one watched Bombshell. The media and Hollywood really did try to push the Megyn Kelly as hero narrative but it bombed because there was no audience. Right wingers hated her for bringing Roger " hamburger meat" Ailes down and left wingers hated her for pushing right wing propaganda for years.

True, but everyone loves Charlize.

Not me r90, she seems like a crazy bitch

R90 I made her career happen. She is very special to me.

Am trying to watch it. Does Rose McGowan really speak in vocal fry?

All this domestic life of the journalists makes me cry who cares! There is a documentary on Weinstein which is much more interesting with testimony from some of the actresses he supposedly harassed.

Do Zoe and Carey have a muff diving scene in this?

does hollywood realize that we’re aware of their hypocrisy, mediocrity, corruption, nepotism, etc, or do they really think they’re fooling everyone?

I dont think many people in entertainment thought of Harvey Weinstein as a rapist. They knew he fucked around on his wife. They knew he made advances on young actresses and models who hoped to break into the business. But even the hotel room meetings, which are now a thing of the past, were not limited to Harvey.

A very big part of this might have been the east coast/west coast divide, plus lack of social media. Harvey operated out of New York City and had a presence at film markets internationally. A lot of "Hollywood" is stuck there in LA most of the time. People knew he was a chain smoking pig and tried to fuck women. But i knew people who went up for jobs at his company and didn't think twice about warning them what they'd be exposed to because i had no idea. and the people who got them the interviews (Agents, managers) didn't know either.

I know nothing about 'She Said/She Shed' but Tarantino is right more often than not, and he's right that for U.S. films this is perhaps “the worst era in Hollywood history.”

Who cares about awards and awards ceremonies when no one cares about the films? No one with half a brain. Of the 51 number one U.S. films in 2022, there are one or two that I would consider watching on Netflix or other subscription streaming service - but only were there no additional charge involved. I wouldn't pay so much as 2.99 to see either. And those are the 'prizes' of the lot, the rest are action films, comic/superhero films, fantasy, animation, cheesy horror films, and resuscitated franchises that were bad the first time around. It's the same going back to 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018...you have to go back six years to 2017 to find a mix of titles where there's a sprinkling at least of interesting or potentially interesting films.

Entertainment has shifted to TV and we still pretend that it's films and cinemas and cineplexes and movie stars that drive everything. We may as well pretend that drive-in cinemas are still a driving force.

Wait a minute - Ashley Judd says she told Weinstein when she won an Academy Award for one of his films she would give him a blow job! How is that not inappropriate?!

that scene in the bar where the hot guys come on to Carey Mulligan. She is rude to them from the start.

Hot guys coming on to Carey Mulligan? I didn't know this movie was science fiction.

You just know it's all the ugly actresses who were never offered the casting couch are the ones pushing this 'meetooo' thing out of jealousy, the hot ones suck dick and get on with it.

If Harvey Weinstein looked like Chris Evans, every single one of those actresses would have been down on their knees to suck his cock in two seconds.

Sorry, that's just the truth.

The only reason this happened is because Weinstein is so physically repulsive even whores couldn't justify sucking him off.

in the bar scene they are all worried when they learn that Ronan Farrow is writing an article for The New Yorker about HW. It took me a minute to realize what HW was.

I just streamed it. Solid movie, some interesting points about entrenched power, the media, and NDAs. Harvey's obsession with asking the reporters if GOOP was involved over and over again was amusing. Really loved the bit with Samantha Morton. she could be a surprise nominee but I suspect Hollywood does not want to dredge this topic up again through any nomination.

[quote]Quentin Tarantino has been blunt about the state of the movie business. On a recent episode of the director’s “Video Archives Podcast,” the man who helped usher in the golden age of indie film with “Pulp Fiction” declared this to be “the worst era in Hollywood history” matched only by other such nadirs as the 1950s and ’80s.

I didn't realize the 50s was a nadir. All About Eve, Sunset Boulevard, From Here To Eternity, On The Waterfront, The Searchers, The Quiet Man, Rear Window, Vertigo, East Of Eden, Marty, Auntie Mame, Written On The Wind, The Ten Commandments, Giant, High Noon, Mister Roberts, Roman Holiday, A Star Is Born, The Day The Earth Stood Still, The African Queen, Touch Of Evil, The Night Of The Hunter, Picnic, Singin' In The Rain, The Bad And The Beautiful, Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, Shane, Rebel Without A Cause, A Place In The Sun, A Streetcar Named Desire, An American In Paris...for starters.

I just want remakes to die out. How long can we obsess over the same old shit?

I heard they're already planning one for Harry Potter.

It's so weird that with both this and "Bombshell," people in Hollywood thought audiences wanted to see films about sexual harassment in the media.

At this time in history, who want to spend an evening and money to see yet another film about female exploitation, the media, and male privilege? It's no wonder Marvel movies do so well. Give people entertainment and they will spend the cash.

To go off Tarantino, it's interesting how we're in an age where movies suck but TV is gold. The last great and truly creative things I watched were White Lotus and Squid Game.

[quote]On the face of it, this movie just looks like "Do Gooders: The Movie"

On the face of it, this movie just looks like "Bitches Whining: The Movie"

If they had named it The Beast and the Beauties they might have tricked in the Disney crowd.

Was Rose McGowan a silent producer on this? She did not co-operate with the original New York Times article which the film is based on yet we get a phone interview where she describes her meeting with HW.

[quote] I didn't realize the 50s was a nadir.

They weren't but Tarantino is right about the 80's.

[quote]So unless movies like “She Said” start performing better at the box office, a whole sector of the theatrical movie business may be imperiled. Something needs to change fast.

How about that sector producing interesting movies that engage audiences?

I'd argue that if Pulp Fiction were released today, it would have done well. It's not just being.

[quote]Take “She Said,” a sturdily made look at the pair of crusading New York Times journalists who helped expose Harvey Weinstein

The reporter in Variety wonders why people haven't flocked to a movie that he himself describes as "sturdily?" That's hardly a rousing endorsement for spending $20. No one is going on a date with a woman who is described as "sturdy" no going to see a movie thusly described.

Also, the author seems to be betraying a bias in using a handful of coded words, such as "crusading" when describing the journalists.

[quote]“Across the board, it’s a scary time for prestige films,”

Equating Bones and All with a "prestige" film seems a bit laughable. Critics these days are no longer reliable sources for discerning what is a "good" movie and not, as they now pander to all sorts of agendas. Just because you're begging for an Oscar and other awards doesn't make your film a good film.

I had a chuckle when we saw Zoe Kazan walking in the street and being tailed by a car to show she was being HW watched. The film also had the cliche of the investigating journalist genre with Carey Mulligan saying the job was too much and she couldn't put her family at risk. And then just before the article was published, we see 10 people proof-reading it standing around one computer. I'd be like - give me some personal space!

And then when we get Harvey into the paper for his reply and the camera focuses on Carey's disgust. I was expecting her to spit at him.

They should have played Cyndi Lauper's She Bop under the end credits.

r116 Not sure why you laughed at that. Weinstein paid a ton of $$ for a harassment squad called Blac k Cu be. No spaces. Several articles written about it.

They are presumed to have planted cocaine on Rose McGowan and prompted her arrest (otherwise why would her bag have been searched--she passed the drug test after). They intimidated witnesses.

This is how the movie represented that following a warning to the journalist she would be followed and phones would be tapped.

Go woke, go broke.

Never heard of this movie. Didn't see any advertising, nothing.

R119 - I read about the surveillance but it's just such a genre cliche. And it was funny how after she noticed the car zoomed away. Oh we've been spotted!

"She Said"?

"Women Talking"??

Shut up!

What actually happened with Farrow’s New Yorker story? The movie heavily implied that the New Yorker killed the story under pressure from Weinstein/Miramax. Is that so?

This film is very good, it is structured like a thriller.

Working title was ‘The Vocal Fry Gang solves a Mystery’

Who wrote this shit? I guess these millennial rat fink girls actually talk like this

The New Yorker story by Ronan Farrow was published on October 10, 2017. The New Yorker won the 2018 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service for Farrow's reporting, sharing the award with Jodi Kantor and Meghan Twohey at The New York Times.

^ just for the timing. The NYT story was published October 5.

Women love to persecute.

I saw this last week, months after it broke box-office records (in the undesirable way). Those who stayed away missed no masterpiece. It's the driest journalism procedural imaginable, a bloodless rehash of a well-covered story. Forget All the President's Men; it isn't even Spotlight. The women are trying to finish their story before Ronan Farrow can publish his, and that's what we have in the way of stakes and tension, amid a lot of staring at screens and knocking on doors and making introductions. Jennifer Ehle and Samantha Morton, as two of the interview subjects, are infinitely more compelling than Mulligan and Kazan as the two reporters at the center.

If you find it on TV in the middle of the night years from now, when the toppling of Weinstein is 2010s nostalgia, it may be an okay way to pass time. In 2022, it was both needless and the opposite of illuminating. I will assume the book was better.

Ashley Judd’s cameo was weird. Way too meta.

r8 So Shorry "She Said"

What did Weinstein do to Morton? Anyone care just to give a rundown?

She was playing a part, not herself.

I have watched it today on the plane. I thought it was pretty good. HW obsession with Goop was really something. I was really moved by Morton and Ehle. Also by the assistant who was living in Hong Kong.