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Breakfast at Tiffany's - The Musical - What Went Wrong

The original cast included Mary Tyler Moore, Richard Chamberlain, Sally Kellerman, Larry Kert and Priscilla Lopez.

Despite a healthy advance sale and much audience anticipation, it closed four nights later without having officially opened. Merrick placed an infamous ad in The New York Times, announcing that he shut down the production "rather than subject the drama critics and the public to an excruciatingly boring evening

As Richard Chamberlain said years later, "We made the mistake of thinking Mary Tyler Moore could do something other than say "Oh Rob!" or "Mr Grant!"

Moore was convinced that Merrick planned to fire her soon after opening night....If only

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by Anonymousreply 423December 3, 2022 1:36 AM

That's surprisingly ungracious and seemingly out of character(I thought) for Chamberlain to say something like that.

It sure doesn't help when the book writer for a splashy New York musical comedy is Edward Albee.

And Merrick was choking on all that money he was swimming in from Hello, Dolly!

by Anonymousreply 1November 19, 2022 12:23 AM

That's a mean thing for Chamberlain to say (you know how bitchy fags can be). MTM was a good actress. Just miscast as Holly, I'm sure.

Perhaps Joey Heatherton? Liza?

by Anonymousreply 2November 19, 2022 12:26 AM

It’s not like Chamberlain ever brought much to the table as an actor (I remember his somewhat dull community theatre Hamlet on the Hallmark Hall of Fame), though he was prettier than MTM and probably would have been better casting as Holly than MTM. Moore was always earthbound and resolutely middle-class, whether as Laura, Mary, or Beth—and found considerable variety in that range. Chamberlain, handsome and moderately charming, was as wooden as Pinocchio in everything I saw him in—including The Thorn Birds.

by Anonymousreply 3November 19, 2022 12:29 AM

[quote] Perhaps Joey Heatherton?

I had to think about that for awhile, but actually not a bad idea. Did she ever do Broadway?

by Anonymousreply 4November 19, 2022 12:32 AM

I saw him in Night of the Iguana at Circle in the Square. Pretty mediocre. But Dorothy McGuire gave one of the all time great performances I have seen on stage.

by Anonymousreply 5November 19, 2022 12:36 AM

[quote]As Richard Chamberlain said years later, "We made the mistake of thinking Mary Tyler Moore could do something other than say "Oh Rob!" or "Mr Grant!"

Link/source, OP? I hardly think she was the problem, although it was a thankless task for any actress to attempt to fill Audrey's pumps.

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by Anonymousreply 6November 19, 2022 12:44 AM

Chamberlain = TOO GAY

by Anonymousreply 7November 19, 2022 12:50 AM

Mary should have done a musical of...

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by Anonymousreply 8November 19, 2022 12:57 AM

Buck never would have said that about MTM.

by Anonymousreply 9November 19, 2022 1:13 AM

I saw Richard Chamberlain play Dr. Sloper in The Heiress at the Pasadena Playhouse about ten years ago. He was excellent; I was quite surprised. The period setting probably provided the proper context for any mannerisms or characteristics that might have seemed “gay” in his performance. Heather Tom was an execrable Catherine.

by Anonymousreply 10November 19, 2022 1:40 AM

Their mistake was not including Mickey Rooney.

by Anonymousreply 11November 19, 2022 1:59 AM

Where is the source for Chamberlain saying this? Though I can well believe he may have said it privately to friends, I can't imagine he would ever have said it for public consumption.

Not that he was wrong....

by Anonymousreply 12November 19, 2022 2:02 AM

And not presenting Rooney in a show stopping oriental production number featuring a dim sum of tasty chorines.

by Anonymousreply 13November 19, 2022 2:06 AM

[quote]Not that he was wrong....

Yes he was, r12. That production was going to flop no matter who played Holly. I think Mary's voice sounds strong enough for Broadway and I think it's safe to assume her dancing was. I think Mary could have succeeded admirably in a Broadway musical with a more suitable vehicle.

by Anonymousreply 14November 19, 2022 2:32 AM

Miss Kellerman was in it.

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by Anonymousreply 15November 19, 2022 4:13 AM

The bigger they are...

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by Anonymousreply 16November 19, 2022 4:20 AM

Faith Prince was the problem, OP.

And she knows why.

by Anonymousreply 17November 19, 2022 5:15 AM

When it was called "Holly Golightly

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by Anonymousreply 18November 19, 2022 8:40 AM

[quote]Perhaps Joey Heatherton?

I would have preferred Lola Heatherton.

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by Anonymousreply 19November 19, 2022 8:47 AM

Do you think they approached Audrey about doing this first?

by Anonymousreply 20November 19, 2022 8:51 AM

It's an excellent score.

Merrick fucked up the show by bringing in Edward Albee to do a new book. He turned it into a weird meta exercise that no audience would accept in a big-ticket Broadway musical in 1966.

The title song is lovely and Mary does a good job with it (at 2:53 below):

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by Anonymousreply 21November 19, 2022 8:52 AM

OP is full of shit.

Chamberlain never said that about Mary.

by Anonymousreply 22November 19, 2022 8:53 AM

The role of Holly needed a sparkling, insouciant ingenue… like Pia Zadora.

by Anonymousreply 23November 19, 2022 8:53 AM

I never miss a Richard Chamberlain musical.

by Anonymousreply 24November 19, 2022 8:54 AM

Chamberlain has done a few musicals, R24, including a Broadway revival of "The Sound of Music." Are you confusing him with Liv Ullmann?

by Anonymousreply 25November 19, 2022 8:59 AM

According to Wikipedia, after Albee rewrote the book it came in at just under FOUR HOURS.

What the fuck were they thinking?

by Anonymousreply 26November 19, 2022 8:59 AM

I never miss an Edward Albee musical.

by Anonymousreply 27November 19, 2022 9:01 AM

Cat is uncredited on the Broadway Database.

by Anonymousreply 28November 19, 2022 9:03 AM

LOCK ‘EM UP!

[bold]#Justice4Cat

by Anonymousreply 29November 19, 2022 12:29 PM

Merrick might as well have had Samuel Beckett write the book to a musical comedy. It was probably done as an act of spite because Mary wouldn't sleep with him. He could afford to have a bomb at that point.

by Anonymousreply 30November 19, 2022 3:47 PM

It's a DREADFUL SCORE. No one could have made this tripe into a hit.

by Anonymousreply 31November 19, 2022 3:47 PM

It had to have been better than Seesaw.

by Anonymousreply 32November 19, 2022 3:49 PM

^ WASN'T

by Anonymousreply 33November 19, 2022 4:43 PM

[quote]r31 It's a DREADFUL SCORE. No one could have made this tripe into a hit.

I like this song. Reportedly the producers were scared that Sally Kellerman was stealing the show as Holly’s friend, so I don’t know if it was eventually cut.

Elaine Joyce might have delivered a note.

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by Anonymousreply 34November 20, 2022 12:37 AM

The title song had life.

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by Anonymousreply 35November 20, 2022 12:39 AM

MTM fantasizing Kellerman fired - -

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by Anonymousreply 36November 20, 2022 12:49 AM

It was in desperate need of a freewheeling patio number.

by Anonymousreply 37November 20, 2022 12:56 AM

[quote]It was in desperate need of a freewheeling patio number.

Featuring Mr. Yunioshi and a chorus line of scantily-clad geishas.

by Anonymousreply 38November 20, 2022 5:12 AM

Mary Tyler Less

by Anonymousreply 39November 20, 2022 5:52 AM

If this was a hit maybe MTM would have been too busy to make the awful Thoroughly Modern Millie

by Anonymousreply 40November 20, 2022 3:23 PM

[quote]Mary's voice sounds strong enough for Broadway

Same for my voice

by Anonymousreply 41November 20, 2022 3:24 PM

[quote]If this was a hit maybe MTM would have been too busy to make the awful Thoroughly Modern Millie.

But it was a big hit! And still better than playing in a nun in an Elvis movie, with Elvis playing a priest.

by Anonymousreply 42November 20, 2022 8:20 PM

^^ Er, playing a nun, that should be. ^^

by Anonymousreply 43November 20, 2022 8:21 PM

The problem with the show is that Nobody had an idea of what story to tell on stage. To follow Capote's novella meant Holly was a pretty tacky tough broad who survived by wits and some street smarts, even though she was originally from down south as a hillbilly. The film changed her into Audrey Hepburn and gave her a sweet love story ending. The first script turned in to Merrick was by Nunnally Johnson and it made her pretty unsympathetic. Nunally was fired and Merrick brought in Abe Burrows, Boy Wonder of Superhits and GhostWriting Librettos. In MTM's autobiog, she says he spent a LOT of time talking about the good old days and that rehearsals started without him having a Second Act written yet. Lots of production numbers and MTM getting reviews that basically said she was miscast as both a sweet Holly (Boston) and tough as nails Holly (Philadelphia), She could sing and of course could act but could never get the right characterization down to make everyone happy. Eventually Merrick turned to Edward Albee - of ALL people - to rewrite the script. What he turned out was a story about a writer trying to write a novel about this fictional Holly Golightly....who appeared on stage As A Figment Of His Imagination, acting out what he was supposedly writing. He was real, she wasn't = audience confused when they expected "Moon River". I think Merrick probably went to every single librettist in the theatre scene to help and they all turned him down: Joseph Stein, Michael Stewart, Comden and Green, Neil Simon, Peter Stone, WHOever, and he ended up desperately seeking Edward Albee who had never written a musical before. Four previews in New York and then CLOSED.

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by Anonymousreply 44November 20, 2022 9:01 PM

[quote] MTM was a good actress.

Had she ever appeared on a stage before?

by Anonymousreply 45November 20, 2022 9:34 PM

[quote] Mary's voice sounds strong enough for Broadway

I bet they were using microphones.

by Anonymousreply 46November 20, 2022 9:42 PM

The problem was that the show was in trouble in Boston (critics hated it) and Merrick invited Diahann Carroll to come out to Boston for a week and see the show - see if she was interested in replacing MTM, and how she would improve the character. He liked what Carroll suggested, and made her an incredible offer to take the lead on Broadway. The press found out what was going on behind the scenes (some say it was Chamberlain who tipped them off) and the rumors started that Carroll was taking over the Broadway run. This caused MTM to be convinced she was being fired, and the morale sunk with the cast (who really liked MTM). MTM continued with lackluster performances to finish the Boston run, figuring she was done.

Carroll didn't want to be seen as the 'bad apple' in this mess, and ended up declining Merrick's offer. She made a public statement and asked the press to be kind to her friend, MTM - and let her have a fair chance on Broadway. The show went to B'way with MTM and the rest is history.

by Anonymousreply 47November 20, 2022 9:51 PM

[quote] the awful Thoroughly Modern Millie

I thought that movie was adequate. By the thought of the skinny MTM, on stage with microphones to boost her unattractive voice, sounds like the epitome of inadequacy.

She's skinnier than Hepburn; how could these two stick figures make money as prostitutes?

by Anonymousreply 48November 20, 2022 10:00 PM

R48, Mary wasn't so skinny in 1967.

by Anonymousreply 49November 20, 2022 10:04 PM

Barbra was miked in Funny Girl, r46/r48 - Body mikes began in the '60s, but floor mikes have been used since the '30s.

by Anonymousreply 50November 20, 2022 11:03 PM

TMM is terrific until it falls apart towards the end. The bluray is wonderful except for the fact that they inexplicably fucked up the soundtrack.

by Anonymousreply 51November 20, 2022 11:17 PM

[quote] floor mikes have been used since the '30s.

R50 Do you mean microphones on a stand?

by Anonymousreply 52November 20, 2022 11:30 PM

No, r52.

by Anonymousreply 53November 20, 2022 11:35 PM

What? Microphones in the floor?

by Anonymousreply 54November 20, 2022 11:37 PM

Foot mics were placed near the footlights, r54.

by Anonymousreply 55November 20, 2022 11:41 PM

Also, r54, there are overhead mics.

by Anonymousreply 56November 20, 2022 11:43 PM

Sally & Faith

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by Anonymousreply 57November 21, 2022 12:10 AM

[quote]TMM is terrific until it falls apart towards the end.

The Music Man or Thoroughly Modern Millie?

by Anonymousreply 58November 21, 2022 12:46 AM

What does MTM have to do with The Music Man, r58?

by Anonymousreply 59November 21, 2022 12:51 AM

R44 Dick said Albee's version was "a dark musical".

I bet it wasn't as dark as La Sondheim's.

by Anonymousreply 60November 21, 2022 12:56 AM

Using a live cat must have had its challenges.

by Anonymousreply 61November 21, 2022 12:59 AM

MTM was always best when part of an ensemble. See her two hit sitcoms. Pretty and charming under the right circumstances, there was something not entirely likable about her. Her getting outed as a Limbaugh fan was no surprise.

by Anonymousreply 62November 21, 2022 1:31 AM

[quote] The problem with the show is that Nobody had an idea of what story to tell on stage. To follow Capote's novella …Holly was a pretty tacky tough broad

I bet that was at the heart of the problem.

How could a miscast bourgeois stick-figure named Mary Tyler play a tacky tough broad?

I wish some enterprising man would do the Edward Albee version for TV.

by Anonymousreply 63November 21, 2022 1:51 AM

[quote] there was something not entirely likable about her.

Her mouth was like a lipless version of Cameron Diaz's mouth.

by Anonymousreply 64November 21, 2022 1:54 AM

Merrick was insane to hire two people who may have appeared pretty on TV but were hopeless on stage.

by Anonymousreply 65November 21, 2022 1:58 AM

As has been pointed out, r65, Chamberlain is a respected stage actor.

[quote]MTM was always best when part of an ensemble

Ted Knight was part of an ensemble, r62, Mary was the *star* of her show.

by Anonymousreply 66November 21, 2022 2:06 AM

To add, r65, Mary later acquitted herself quite nicely on stage.

by Anonymousreply 67November 21, 2022 2:07 AM

Oh R66!

Wiki lists her production company's plays and ——

[quote] Moore appeared in previews of the Neil Simon play 'Rose's Dilemma' at the off-Broadway Manhattan Theatre Club in December 2003 but quit the production after receiving a critical letter from Simon instructing her to "learn your lines or get out of my play".

by Anonymousreply 68November 21, 2022 2:21 AM

She was also given a Special Tony for Who's Life..., r68, what's your point?

by Anonymousreply 69November 21, 2022 2:25 AM

It seems the surname "Golightly" is a real name from Ireland.

I wonder if Capote used it as a symbolic verb because another of Capote's characters has the surname 'Trawler'.

by Anonymousreply 70November 21, 2022 3:06 AM

What's in a name? What if Sally Bowles had been Sally Platters?

by Anonymousreply 71November 21, 2022 3:40 AM

Anyone who has read Truman Capote's novella can instantly see that it has no plot. It's not a story -just a series of vignettes that illustrate the narrator's run-ins with Holly. Every bit of the story was made up for the film, and Merrick had the rights to the book, not the film. Whatever accomplishments Moore and Chamberlain achieved onstage later in their careers, at the time of Breakfast at Tiffany's they were both neophytes -TV names with no stage cred.

Albee's book was too avant-garde for Broadway. Burrows' book was too old-fashioned. The reason no one would take on the rewrite was that everyone could see that the whole project was doomed to failure. No one could compete with Capote's brilliant writing or the memory of Audrey in the film. Why even try?

by Anonymousreply 72November 21, 2022 3:47 AM

Capote says Holly went through life lightly whereas the character named Rusty trawled through life.

Evelyn Waugh had one of his heroes in 'Brideshead' ride through life while the other flew through it.

I wonder if George Bernard Shaw was suggesting that the main character in his play 'Pygmalion' did little with their life?

by Anonymousreply 73November 21, 2022 3:50 AM

In Cold Blood would have been a real toe-tapper!

by Anonymousreply 74November 21, 2022 4:03 AM

Dan Sullivan in The New York Times saw the final preview performance and noted that while Mary and Richard were troupers neither was ready for a Broadway musical. Their voices were small, their movements uncommanding. Whatever sparkle was left in the role of Holly after all those rewrites was missed by Mary and the unnecessary complexities of Richard's role escaped him.

by Anonymousreply 75November 21, 2022 4:05 AM

It's like what would Applause have been like if they'd had the rights to All About Eve?

by Anonymousreply 76November 21, 2022 4:10 AM

R72 is why I love the DL

by Anonymousreply 77November 21, 2022 4:14 AM

Mary writes about how at one of the previews the audience yelled back at the actors. in one scene Richard saw Mary in a hospital bed and asked, "Where did I go wrong?" and someone yelled out "When you left Dr. Kildare!"

by Anonymousreply 78November 21, 2022 4:33 AM

They needed Neil Simon to do the book like he did with Sweet Charity and Promises Promises.

by Anonymousreply 79November 21, 2022 4:44 AM

People wanted the movie.

by Anonymousreply 80November 21, 2022 4:45 AM

Poor Truman didn't have much luck on Broadway.

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by Anonymousreply 81November 21, 2022 5:17 AM

[quote]I had to think about that for awhile, but actually not a bad idea. Did she ever do Broadway?

There Was a Little Girl

The Sound of Music

by Anonymousreply 82November 21, 2022 5:19 AM

[quote]I wonder if Capote used it as a symbolic verb because another of Capote's characters has the surname 'Trawler'.

Why omit his first name? The character was named Rusty Trawler, which is even less subtle.

by Anonymousreply 83November 21, 2022 7:59 AM

^ I've forgotten what "Rusty Trawler" does in the story.

by Anonymousreply 84November 21, 2022 8:21 AM

[quote]I've forgotten what "Rusty Trawler" does in the story.

In Capote's story, Rusty is a Nazi sympathizer who has been seeing Holly. Everyone thinks they’ll probably get married. Holly says that she would marry Rusty only because he's rich and that the marriage wouldn’t be real, anyway, because Rusty is homosexual. Rusty's wealth came from his parents, who died when Rusty was very young. His father was killed by an anarchist, causing his mother to die of shock.

by Anonymousreply 85November 21, 2022 9:01 AM

[quote] I wonder if George Bernard Shaw was suggesting that the main character in his play 'Pygmalion' did little with their life?

R73 I’ve always thought Shaw chose the name “Doolittle” as a slam to Elisa’s father Alfred, whose main goal in life seemed to be to do as little as possible.

by Anonymousreply 86November 21, 2022 9:37 AM

^^ Eliza, not Elisa. That’s what happens when a scientist does literary analysis.

by Anonymousreply 87November 21, 2022 9:40 AM

[quote]It seems the surname "Golightly" is a real name from Ireland.

It's real alright

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by Anonymousreply 88November 21, 2022 10:26 AM

[quote] It seems the surname "Golightly" is a real name

Well, my friends and I had always thought that Audrey was playing a character called 'Holly Gollighty'.

by Anonymousreply 89November 21, 2022 11:38 AM

The misogynistic spin here that MTM was some talentless dip that magically became a star with zero talent is completely stupid and embarrassing. MTM is a part of the fabric of the growing up of tv in America. She was an international star. She’s one of the most beloved start Hollywood has ever produced. She headed several unforgettable shows throughout her lifetime. She gave a searing and brilliant performance in Ordinary People that arguably should have won the Oscar and is objectively the most memorable. Does anyone talk about Coal Miner’s Daughter now or Resurrection for that matter? No, they don’t. And all this “oh, she was directed and edited to get that performance” is nonsense. She’s incredible every time she’s on screen in that movie. That’s not direction or editing. It’s her. Period.

So spare me your misogynistic stupidity.

by Anonymousreply 90November 21, 2022 1:31 PM

Or your maryogynist stupidity

by Anonymousreply 91November 21, 2022 2:00 PM

Richard Chamberlain theatre credits.

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by Anonymousreply 92November 21, 2022 3:17 PM

I saw Heather Tom in The Heiress and thought she was great.

by Anonymousreply 93November 21, 2022 3:33 PM

House of Flowers

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by Anonymousreply 94November 21, 2022 6:04 PM

Lovely interview with Diahann but she doesn't go until all the turmoil on the show. I wonder why she's just so complimentary and tight-lipped here?

by Anonymousreply 95November 21, 2022 6:12 PM

Carroll was a class act. Though she probably relished in the idea of opening in a Broadway musical after her star turn in HoF, she had no interest in making a bad experience worse for her friend, MTM. Would she have 'saved the show' by stepping into the role of Holly ? Possibly - but the show was already 'tarnished' with bad word of mouth for MTM.

by Anonymousreply 96November 21, 2022 6:34 PM

[quote]Poor Truman didn't have much luck on Broadway.

I'm sure "In Cold Blood: The Musical" would have been a triumph.

by Anonymousreply 97November 21, 2022 6:45 PM

She also had No Strings behind her, r96.

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by Anonymousreply 98November 21, 2022 6:56 PM

Such a catchy tune...

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by Anonymousreply 99November 21, 2022 6:59 PM

A solo by Moore of "My Funny Mr. Yunioshi" lamenting the intricate relationship she has with her Oriental upstairs neighbor, could've done wonders.

by Anonymousreply 100November 21, 2022 7:05 PM

^^ i'd like to see that. Truman sings!

by Anonymousreply 101November 21, 2022 7:10 PM

Any proof Richard Chamberlain said such crass things about MTM?

by Anonymousreply 102November 21, 2022 7:18 PM

[quote] Would she have 'saved the show' by stepping into the role of Holly ? Possibly - but the show was already 'tarnished' with bad word of mouth for MTM.

Seriously? Nobody could have saved that piece of crap.

by Anonymousreply 103November 21, 2022 7:42 PM

Not yet, r102, and I wouldn't hold my breath.

by Anonymousreply 104November 21, 2022 7:48 PM

Richard Chamberlain was HAF so I don't believe he trashed MTM.

by Anonymousreply 105November 21, 2022 7:53 PM

R90 So spare me your maryophilia.

by Anonymousreply 106November 21, 2022 8:08 PM

RC might have commented on the show in his memoir Shattered Love but the bastard provided no index.

by Anonymousreply 107November 21, 2022 8:17 PM

R107 Did Dick present his memoir in chronological order?

by Anonymousreply 108November 21, 2022 8:31 PM

Memoirs don't have indexes- autobiographies do.

by Anonymousreply 109November 21, 2022 8:31 PM

Mary's has an index.

by Anonymousreply 110November 21, 2022 9:02 PM

Buck would never have written a book without an index.

by Anonymousreply 111November 21, 2022 9:08 PM

[quote] Mary's has an index.

I've been told that Mary is "one of the most beloved stars Hollywood has ever produced".

Ever!

by Anonymousreply 112November 21, 2022 9:09 PM

Mary is/was pretty beloved, r112. Well, make that Laura Petrie and Mary Richards.

by Anonymousreply 113November 21, 2022 9:17 PM

Both title songs are solid ("Holly Golightly" and "Breakfast at Tiffany's"), and "Same Mistakes" linked above is a better, if generic, 11 o'clocker than the song she had in that spot before. "Ciao Compare" is fine, Ethan Mordden said it would have become a standard had the show survived. "You've Never Kissed Her" is a bit bossy but a decent ballad.

The "Travelin'" song and Sally Kellerman's replacement song "Quiet Coffee" work, as does "Nothing is New in New York."

But the score really falls down in the generic material for extraneous characters and the side trips that just make the story more anecdotal. The lyrics in particular are not Broadway level at times.

The show has resurfaced only once in (relatively) recent days, AFAIK. The Lost Musicals series in London was able to do a staged reading presentation of it.

Anyway, to the point above: yes, there's some substandard material in the score, but some quality material too, and there are certainly hit shows that have gotten by on less.

Faith Prince is a bit firm voiced on that studio recording, but she sings it all well. The men's material not being divided strictly along character lines makes it hard to tell sometimes what is meant for which character, but John Schneider and Hal Linden are certainly capable.

by Anonymousreply 114November 21, 2022 9:19 PM

[quote] a bit firm voiced

LOL

by Anonymousreply 115November 21, 2022 9:25 PM

Some of the song are pretty good, especially as rendered by the lovely Ms. Cantrell. This song is hobbled by a bad lyric ("If you're donut is sweet . . . ") but has a haunting melody. Cantrell also recorded I've Got a Penny, another pleasant one. The rest of the score is substandard Bob Merrill, which accounts for about 50% of his work.

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by Anonymousreply 116November 21, 2022 9:41 PM

[quote]Perhaps Joey Heatherton?

Yes, casting a tacky, minimally talented go-go girl as Holly surely would have made this show the classic it never got to be.

by Anonymousreply 117November 21, 2022 10:09 PM

But Holly was redneck trash.

by Anonymousreply 118November 21, 2022 10:11 PM

[quote]But Holly was redneck trash.

So you suggest casting somebody tacky and talent-free to play her? That makes no sense.

by Anonymousreply 119November 21, 2022 10:15 PM

This production never stood a chance no matter who was in it.

MTM was a really bad choice and she should have known how awful it was. And then it got worse.

Mary, to her credit, took a chance. I still love her.

Mutate or perish.

by Anonymousreply 120November 21, 2022 10:24 PM

[quote], there was something not entirely likable about her. Her getting outed as a Limbaugh fan was no surprise.

Wow that is convoluted logic .

by Anonymousreply 121November 21, 2022 10:26 PM

[quote] She’s one of the most beloved start Hollywood has ever produced.

She was so beloved no one watched anything she did after 1981

by Anonymousreply 122November 21, 2022 10:29 PM

She was good in Thoroughly Modern Millie, but Julie was great so...

by Anonymousreply 123November 21, 2022 10:58 PM

r123

Translation: Julie carried her. Julie carried Dick Van Dyke and his racist accent too

by Anonymousreply 124November 21, 2022 11:01 PM

Yes dear, R124.

by Anonymousreply 125November 21, 2022 11:07 PM

[quote] Holly was a pretty tacky tough broad

She was a prostitute.

by Anonymousreply 126November 21, 2022 11:09 PM

Julie gets a lot of flack but she really was a dynamo.

by Anonymousreply 127November 21, 2022 11:09 PM

Mary also writes that Edward Albee was overheard to say I hate the musical form when he first appeared to work on the show. Then why agree to do it, Eddy?

by Anonymousreply 128November 21, 2022 11:10 PM

Her name was Hawry Gowrightwee...

by Anonymousreply 129November 21, 2022 11:11 PM

[quote]She was so beloved no one watched anything she did after 1981

But we've never *stopped* watching her as Laura Petrie and Mary Richards, r122.

by Anonymousreply 130November 21, 2022 11:16 PM

[quote]Julie gets a lot of flack but she really was a dynamo.

Who gives her flack? She's wonderful.

[quote]But we've never *stopped* watching her as Laura Petrie and Mary Richards

Lyle and Erik never stopped watching their parents as they were pummelling them.

by Anonymousreply 131November 21, 2022 11:19 PM

RC is quoted in the Barbara Siegel book on him. "Mary knew the truth and would cry between scenes... the show flopped and the sound of the crash could have been heard in Texas...Mary gave a closing-night party at her place. We were all very manic - laughing and singing a lot. After the party I walked by the theatre to see my name on the marquee one more time before they took it down. When I saw I started to cry and I wept most of the night."

by Anonymousreply 132November 21, 2022 11:20 PM

Doing a bad cockney accent is racist? Somebody is very very desperate. And I bet I know who it is.

by Anonymousreply 133November 21, 2022 11:21 PM

R133 Somebody is very very desperate

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by Anonymousreply 134November 21, 2022 11:22 PM

[quote]Doing a bad cockney accent is racist?

Yes, imagine being white and talking in African-American vernacular. He was an American mocking an English minority.

by Anonymousreply 135November 21, 2022 11:26 PM

[quote]Lyle and Erik never stopped watching their parents as they were pummelling them.

Do you have a point somewhere in that, r131?

by Anonymousreply 136November 21, 2022 11:26 PM

The only racism I know of is in Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

by Anonymousreply 137November 21, 2022 11:34 PM

[quote]After the party I walked by the theatre to see my name on the marquee one more time before they took it down. When I saw I started to cry and I wept most of the night."

MARY!

by Anonymousreply 138November 21, 2022 11:43 PM

Anything can be a musical, these days.

An unofficial BRIDGERTON musical, written and performed on TikTok, won a Grammy this year.

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by Anonymousreply 139November 22, 2022 1:29 AM

R69, R136

[quote] what's your point?

[quote] Do you have a point…?

by Anonymousreply 140November 22, 2022 1:51 AM

MTM also tried to get the role of Norma Desmond in the Canadian production of Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical "Sunset Boulevard" back in 1995, but that time Diahann Carroll didn't play too nicely.

"Bitch! You get out of this theater ! This role is mine, mine, mine ! Do you want to close this production down like you did 'Breakfast At Tiffany's ??" she asked. "You're an embarrassment to musical theater, you hussy !"

MTM broke down in tears, turned on her high heel, and left the building.

by Anonymousreply 141November 22, 2022 2:42 AM

I had also read about Diahann Carroll being asked to replace MTM. Tammy Grimes' name also floated around. If it was going to be attempted as a musical, they should have gotten the rights to the FILM, not the novella. Although Capote wasn't found of the film. People didn't want to hear Laura Petrie say things like "I've lost my goddamn key!" or lose a baby after getting punched in the stomach by a female officer. (Don't ask....or maybe ask Albee, if he were still alive). Richard Chamberlain came off okay but, let's face it, the whole story/film/musical is all about Holly. There are some really good songs in the show as mentioned above but also songs that act as filler. Sally Kellerman played 'Mag', a hooker friend of Holly's and got to sing a few songs in the show as well.

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by Anonymousreply 142November 22, 2022 3:02 AM

Faith Prince on the studio recording is a disastrous choice as Holly.

by Anonymousreply 143November 22, 2022 3:15 AM

I couldn't disagree more, R143. I thought she nailed every number vocally. Would I ever cast her as Holly? No. But for an album, she was great.

by Anonymousreply 144November 22, 2022 3:18 AM

Was Dionne Warwick ever considered for the role? She would have been the right age and type for Holly. Did Dionne ever do Broadway? It seems like a logical move for her.

by Anonymousreply 145November 22, 2022 3:31 AM

Don't you remember Mag Wildwood in the movie, r142?

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by Anonymousreply 146November 22, 2022 3:31 AM

[quote]R42 But it was a big hit! And still better than playing in a nun in an Elvis movie, with Elvis playing a priest. —Whose idea was that?

Isn’t she in an awful movie with an animated parrot or something, too?

by Anonymousreply 147November 22, 2022 3:45 AM

Posted above, r147, and it was a toucan.

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by Anonymousreply 148November 22, 2022 3:50 AM

[quote]R47 Diahann Carroll didn't want to be seen as the 'bad apple' in this mess, and ended up declining Merrick's offer. She made a public statement and asked the press to be kind to her friend, MTM

Some friend. Sneaking into out of town tryouts to study the role, negotiating a deal…!

Dominique Deveraux has her handprints all OVER this!!

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by Anonymousreply 149November 22, 2022 4:01 AM

Chamberlain glides through "Breakfast at Tiffany's" in two pages in his memoir. He says the reviews in Philadelphia were mixed, but "I was oblivious and having a ball. When we played another month in Boston amid constant script and song changes, even I began to see dark problems looming." By the New York previews, audiences "shouted rude remarks and walked out in droves." He makes no rude remarks about Moore.

by Anonymousreply 150November 22, 2022 6:39 AM

R148 Even George Firth (gay) and Dom DeLuise (likely gay), who were both very funny actors, couldn't save "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?" Mary appears to be doing a screwball comedy version of Laura Petrie as Holly Golightly.

Get this quote from George Seaton, the movie's writer and producer: "The sophisticated humor of 20 years ago, the Noel Coward type of thing is not today. Not now." Imagine having the chutzpah to mention that movie in the same sentence as Coward's comedies. If Seaton thought his movie was an antidote for the assassinations and riots of 1968, he had another thing coming.

I think one of the luckiest things that ever happened to MTM was that early test audiences weren’t enthusiastic about the initial version(s) of the first episode of The MTM Show. Mary's writers and producers had the talent (and ability to tone down their egos) to fix the problems by airtime, which saved the show.

The linked video shows a pre-final version of Mary’s interview with Mr. Grant in the first episode. The dialog is at least 95% the same as the final version, but the scene was filmed with one camera without an audience and canned laughter was added. The acting and timing is nowhere near as funny as the final, live performance filmed with multiple cameras and an audience. Given the proper vehicle and behind the scenes support, MTM could shine.

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by Anonymousreply 151November 22, 2022 9:20 AM

[R145] Warwick is currently reprising her Broadway role on the national tour of "Tina! The Musical" She does an incredible performance as Tina Turner, and ends the show by looking at the audience and saying, "I got that little hussy's number..."

by Anonymousreply 152November 22, 2022 2:21 PM

MTM made a comeback on Broadway in 1986 in the AR Gurney comedy SWEET SUE opposite Lynn Redgrave, which is remembered today (if at all) more for the nudity of the 2 young male actors Barry Tubb and John Linton. Apparently, MTM and Lynn weren't on speaking terms (offstage) by the time the show closed prematurely a few months after opening.

Does MTM mention it in her memoir?

by Anonymousreply 153November 22, 2022 2:43 PM

If you look for it, you can find plenty of people who say MTM, offstage, could be a tough customer. Given her level of success, that's totally unsurprising.

The filmmaker who did the Rose Marie documentary a few years back said this at a talkback in New York. She was apparently, in private, more like the mom in Ordinary People than like Laura Petrie. Like most celebs, she could affect affability when she needed to.

Did anyone here see her in Rose's Dilemma? Saw it after she left, and the dilemma turned out to be that Rose was trapped in a so-so play, with the ghost of greater Neil Simon works still lingering in the memory.

by Anonymousreply 154November 22, 2022 3:30 PM

r154, I also saw Rose's Dilemma after MTM's departure (actually, I think she was gone before previews began) and remember virtually NOTHING about the production. Couldn't imagine back then what attracted MTM to do it, except it was a new Neil Simon play so perhaps she expected improved rewrites. But then, it sounded like she couldn't keep up with the rewrites, causing Neil Simon to write that rude missive to her, delivered by his then wife Elaine Joyce. A sad unnecessary mess all around.

by Anonymousreply 155November 22, 2022 3:45 PM

R154 Please don’t give me the mental image that MTM was really more like Beth than Laura.

by Anonymousreply 156November 22, 2022 3:55 PM

Just looked it up, R155. Apparently she did previews from Nov 20 - Dec 3. The letter was delivered before a matinee that day, and she left.

by Anonymousreply 157November 22, 2022 3:56 PM

[quote]more for the nudity of the 2 young male actors Barry Tubb and John Linton

Armand wasn't available?

by Anonymousreply 158November 22, 2022 3:59 PM

Miss Chamberlain's old ass is still among the living!

by Anonymousreply 159November 22, 2022 4:00 PM

R156 You must be new here

by Anonymousreply 160November 22, 2022 4:01 PM

I had a friend who interned on the production of "Rose's Dilemma". I recall back then how frightened she would be going to work those days - telling me how demeaning MTM was to the cast and crew. All they wanted to do was help MTM give her best performance, and she wouldn't have it. They were quite happy when she was fired.

by Anonymousreply 161November 22, 2022 5:25 PM

Mary was 65, r161. I assume her eventual dementia was in very early stages making it difficult to learn lines.

by Anonymousreply 162November 22, 2022 5:39 PM

Yes Mary writes about Sweet Sue in her book. Lynn Redgrave replaced Maria Tucci at the Williamstown Playhouse after the backers decided they needed two name actresses. Mary says Lyn was great but as the rehearsals continued her comic acting became broader and Mary found herself looking in the face of someone from another play. Her mugging got laughs at some of Mary's moments! Their divergent styles did not make magic happen with Mary having to relearn how to play well with others. They got decent reviews and ran for 164 performances which was just long enough to sustain Mary's enjoyment.

by Anonymousreply 163November 22, 2022 7:19 PM

[quote]MTM made a comeback on Broadway in 1986 in the AR Gurney comedy SWEET SUE opposite Lynn Redgrave, which is remembered today (if at all) more for the nudity of the 2 young male actors Barry Tubb and John Linton.

I reviewed it in Boston on press night. The nudity of the two young men is about the only thing I remember from it, aside from the gimmick of Moore and Redgrave playing different aspects of the same character. The two young men were seen from the back only in the play's opening, and they were seated on stools. Does a failed play that closed quickly qualify as a "comeback"?

by Anonymousreply 164November 22, 2022 7:44 PM

So you only saw the top of the crack of their asses? That's like Doubles where they had the men cover as much of themselves as possible with anything they could find and only be nude while sitting down with their backs to the audience. That's not nudity. Of course Austin Pendleton was seen briefly full frontal but being that was something that nobody in the world wanted to see I don't count that either. I was interested in going back to see it again when Charles Repole took the part but the play was such a yawn it hardly seemed worth the effort.

by Anonymousreply 165November 22, 2022 8:01 PM

SWEET SUE was AR ("Pete") Gurney's best play and one of the few in which he allowed his latent homosexual yearnings, as seen through the character played by MTM, some expression. I loved it, thought it was actually very underrated.

by Anonymousreply 166November 22, 2022 8:10 PM

[quote]R163 Mary found herself looking in the face of someone from another play. Redgrave’s mugging got laughs at some of Mary's moments!

Oh boy… stand back!

by Anonymousreply 167November 22, 2022 9:41 PM

I know how Mary felt!

by Anonymousreply 168November 22, 2022 9:50 PM

Well, IIRC Lynn played Mary's uncensored alter ego, expressing all the thoughts/feelings that Mary's character was too inhibited to express herself. So, naturally, Lynn had most of the funny lines.

by Anonymousreply 169November 22, 2022 10:12 PM

IMHO, this rather harsh caricature seems like an accurate representation of MTM's face.

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by Anonymousreply 170November 22, 2022 10:38 PM

Rob's wasn't any more flattering, r170.

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by Anonymousreply 171November 22, 2022 10:46 PM

A friend of mine did a reading with MTM in the 90s and said it was cool she had her hair pulled back. She wasn’t ashamed of the facelift scars behind her ears.

I guess that’s something.

by Anonymousreply 172November 22, 2022 10:48 PM

[quote] after Albee rewrote the book it came in at just under FOUR HOURS. What the fuck were they thinking?

No worse than when Kander and Ebb did a musical version of The Lady from Dubuque. Who knew Sada Thompson couldn't sing and dance?

by Anonymousreply 173November 22, 2022 10:54 PM

That Hirschfield caricature is fucking brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 174November 22, 2022 10:54 PM

I would sue Hirschfeld for his accuracy.

by Anonymousreply 175November 22, 2022 10:56 PM

I would also sue R171.

by Anonymousreply 176November 22, 2022 11:17 PM

[quote]As Richard Chamberlain said years later, "We made the mistake of thinking Mary Tyler Moore could do something other than say "Oh Rob!" or "Mr Grant!"

It's really important to try and hurt me isn't it?

by Anonymousreply 177November 22, 2022 11:29 PM

Mary and Julie, Mary and Lynn, Lynn and Julie

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by Anonymousreply 178November 22, 2022 11:31 PM

[quote] the nudity of the 2 young male actors Barry Tubb and John Linton.

Oh, I had the hots for Tubb back in the early 80s as a gayling. I still remember his butt shot on Bay City Blues. Funny, he seems to have never married and his only publicized romance was with, ahem, Kelly McGinnis.

by Anonymousreply 179November 22, 2022 11:31 PM

R178 Lynn is definitely 'hoofing' through that rendition.

by Anonymousreply 180November 22, 2022 11:41 PM

[quote]Who knew Sada Thompson couldn't sing and dance

She was in the ensemble of Juno...

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by Anonymousreply 181November 22, 2022 11:44 PM

Diahann Carroll: "Bitch! You get out of this theater! This role is mine, mine, mine! Do you want to close this production down like you did 'Breakfast At Tiffany's?" she asked. "You're an embarrassment to musical theater, you hussy!"

MTM: Maybe this is how they sit around and talk at the hospital, but we're not at the hospital.

by Anonymousreply 182November 22, 2022 11:46 PM

She didn't have Julie's gymnastic skills, r180.

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by Anonymousreply 183November 22, 2022 11:47 PM

It seems more likely that Neil Simon, at age 76, was suffering from some form of dementia (or writer's block) by the time of "Rose's Dilemma" in 2003.

Simon hadn't had a theatrical hit since "Proposals" in 1997, and Rose's Dilemma was his final play, which followed the the dismal failure of Simon's "45 Seconds from Broadway" in 2001.

Simon was under tremendous pressure and spread his misery throughout the company of "Rose's Dilemma" with his unhappiness and his constant rewrites.

On the day of Simon's notoriously scathing letter to MTM, Simon had changed the dialog so many times, all of the the actors, including MTM, were rehearsing with ear buds, so they could be prompted on Simon's latest rewrites.

Simon's fourth wife, the ever-ambitious and ruthless Elaine Joyce, was said to have also contributed to the toxic environment on that production. And Joyce seemed eager to deliver Simon's angry letter to MTM, rather than to try to de-escalate the tension.

"Rose's Dilemma", which finally opened without MTM, ran briefly in Los Angeles and later Off-Broadway, but it soon closed after dismal reviews.

MTM could be cold and aloof, but the whole debacle is far more unflattering to Neil Simon and Elaine Joyce than to MTM.

You could say a lot of things about MTM, but she was never known to be unprepared or unprofessional in her work.

by Anonymousreply 184November 23, 2022 12:15 AM

[quote]R184 Simon's fourth wife, the ever-ambitious and ruthless Elaine Joyce, was said to have also contributed to the toxic environment on that production. And Joyce seemed eager to deliver Simon's angry letter to MTM, rather than to try to de-escalate the tension.

I bet she was Mary’s understudy.

by Anonymousreply 185November 23, 2022 1:02 AM

I think Rose's Dilemma was also the first time a Neil Simon play couldn't get a Broadway production, hence the "tryout" at the non-profit Manhattan Theatre Club. This was before MTC owned a Broadway theater.

I don't think Neil Simon will be remembered in the future with much more respect or love than whoever wrote Arsenic & Old Lace, Life With Father or Abie's Irish Rose.

Also, was there a wife between Marsha Mason and Elaine Joyce? Wasn't Simon only married 3 times?

by Anonymousreply 186November 23, 2022 1:08 AM

This is a FAR more entertaining thread with theatre gossip than the Theatre Gossip Threads.

Shhhhh. Keep the loons out!

by Anonymousreply 187November 23, 2022 1:09 AM

Dear R186, I like the irony in your second paragraph; we remember particular playwrights with respect or love even if we don't remember their names.

by Anonymousreply 188November 23, 2022 1:11 AM

Elaine was married to television producer John Levoff in between Van and Simon.

by Anonymousreply 189November 23, 2022 2:43 AM

There was a wife before Marsha Mason who was there for him in his early successful years who died of cancer.

by Anonymousreply 190November 23, 2022 3:21 AM

Sounds like play fodder to me, r190.

by Anonymousreply 191November 23, 2022 3:26 AM

Anybody see...?

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by Anonymousreply 192November 23, 2022 3:28 AM

[quote]Oh, I had the hots for Tubb back in the early 80s as a gayling. I still remember his butt shot on Bay City Blues. Funny, he seems to have never married and his only publicized romance was with, ahem, Kelly McGinnis.

I remember, as a gayling, seeing Barry Tubb as the gay son of Marlo Thomas and Martin Sheen in the 1985 TV movie "Consenting Adult."

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by Anonymousreply 193November 23, 2022 3:42 AM

Neil Simon's Spouses:

Joan Baim ​ ​(m. 1953; died 1973)​ Marsha Mason ​ ​(m. 1973; div. 1983)​ Diane Lander ​ ​(m. 1987; div. 1988)​ ​ ​(m. 1990; div. 1998)​ Elaine Joyce ​ ​(m. 1999)

by Anonymousreply 194November 23, 2022 4:05 AM

How did I miss out on that action?

by Anonymousreply 195November 23, 2022 5:03 AM

How did I miss out on that action?

by Anonymousreply 196November 23, 2022 5:03 AM

I saw Mary Tyler Moore in Who’s life is it Anyway, and I recall that she was very good and so was the play.

by Anonymousreply 197November 23, 2022 8:08 AM

So...anybody see the non-musical version?

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by Anonymousreply 198November 24, 2022 3:02 AM

^ that picture doesn't look like Capote's "tacky tough broad" viz R44.

by Anonymousreply 199November 24, 2022 3:10 AM

[quote]So...anybody see the non-musical version?

Which was even more pointless than the musical version.

by Anonymousreply 200November 24, 2022 3:32 AM

[quote]Breakfast at Tiffany's - The Musical - What Went Wrong

It didn't have Mickey Rooney.

[quote]Translation: Julie carried her. Julie carried Dick Van Dyke and his racist accent too

R124 His accent was racist?

by Anonymousreply 201November 24, 2022 10:31 AM

Totally agree with [184], that show's failure was not on MTM but on NS. Imagine sending that nasty note backstage Before A Performance. MTM read it and walked right out. Good for her. I think Neil knew his big time on Broadway was coming to an end since most of his later plays didn't run very long. The "Eugene" Trilogy worked well but everything else didn't.

by Anonymousreply 202November 24, 2022 6:36 PM

[quote]The "Eugene" Trilogy worked well but everything else didn't.

Including the Eugene trilogy when they tried to revive it, r202.

by Anonymousreply 203November 24, 2022 6:46 PM

[quote]She gave a searing and brilliant performance in Ordinary People that arguably should have won the Oscar and is objectively the most memorable. Does anyone talk about Coal Miner’s Daughter now

Well I have no idea if people "talk about" Coal Miner's Daughter now but Sissy Spacek gave a great performance in it, and carried the entire film because she played the title role, while Mary was upstaged by Tim Hutton. But I don't think a performance ought to judged based on how many old gay people on internet forums talk about it.

by Anonymousreply 204November 24, 2022 7:28 PM

Pictures from Williamstown production of Sweet Sue

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by Anonymousreply 205November 24, 2022 8:14 PM

Steven Culp who's seen in the Williamstown photos of Sweet Sue was actually a last minute replacement for soap opera hunk Robert Tyler who did not please Mary (onstage). Steven (son of actor Robert Culp) was ultimately deemed too old to play a college boy and did not make the cut to Broadway and was replaced John K. Linton, who seems to have disappeared after the Broadway closing of Sweet Sue.

I was an apprentice there that fabulous summer.

by Anonymousreply 206November 24, 2022 8:23 PM

R204 The debate about MTM vs SIssy for the Oscar has been on here on DL probably since the day DL debuted. Second only to Bette vs Sally.

If there was ever a great argument for a second tie (after Hepburn vs Streisasnd), this might have been it. Hey OP - how 'bout a poll?

by Anonymousreply 207November 24, 2022 8:37 PM

[quote]The debate about MTM vs SIssy for the Oscar has been on here on DL probably since the day DL debuted. Second only to Bette vs Sally.

Bette Davis vs. Sally Struthers?

by Anonymousreply 208November 24, 2022 8:58 PM

^^ No. Sally Kirkland

by Anonymousreply 209November 24, 2022 9:08 PM

But I don't think a performance ought to judged based on how many old gay people on internet forums talk about it.

Let's face it who else gives a fuck?

by Anonymousreply 210November 24, 2022 9:47 PM

R206, Steven Culp isn't related to Robert Culp.

by Anonymousreply 211November 25, 2022 1:44 PM

R208 I have no idea what the Bette vs Sally debate is. Bette Davis?

by Anonymousreply 212November 25, 2022 1:58 PM

R210 The people in the industry who voted for it, originally.

by Anonymousreply 213November 25, 2022 1:59 PM

R210 Generally, I don't get the point of re-litigating Oscar wins or losses. It's just an award given at the time buy a large group of industry people, and should mean just that. It doesn't literally mean the whole world thought this was the greatest performance, film, job of direction. whatever. It only means more than other awards, to the public, because the Oscars themselves, and the film industry, have hyped it up to be a lot more than it is (or used to be, originally).

by Anonymousreply 214November 25, 2022 2:03 PM

The whole point R214 is that it's an on-going conversation. The whole point of awards shows is the on-going conversation around it from beginning to end and after. It's called promotion.

by Anonymousreply 215November 25, 2022 2:35 PM

Huh, Steven Culp being the son of Robert Culp was definitely the gossip that summer at Williamstown, r211, but doing a quick google search tells me you're right. If only we had the internet back in 1986.

by Anonymousreply 216November 25, 2022 2:37 PM

The post-Oscar chat can be fascinating in retrospect (or do I mean hindsight?), in analyzing what might have been going on that year to create those wins. Clearly, it was often not just about talent.

by Anonymousreply 217November 25, 2022 2:41 PM

r4 Physically, yes, but I don’t think Heatherton had the discipline for Broadway, plus she was definitely looked down upon by the Broadway community. She was also doing Vegas at the time and was making easy money and enjoying the lifestyle that came with the Strip.

by Anonymousreply 218November 25, 2022 2:45 PM

Joey was even looked down upon by the Hullabaloo Dancers.

by Anonymousreply 219November 25, 2022 2:47 PM

[quote]IMHO, this rather harsh caricature seems like an accurate representation of MTM's face.

R170, it's an HONOR to be caricatured by Al Hirschfeld.

by Anonymousreply 220November 25, 2022 2:47 PM

R215 I'm talking about people still talking about how MTM didn't win in 1980 (over 40 years ago - but germane to this thread) Jack Nicholson didn't win in 1974, or Judy Garland in 1954., for ex. People are obsessed by this stuff, now. much more than they ever used to be. The Oscars have been around a lot longer, I guess, and have taken on this almost mythic or religious significance to some people nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 221November 25, 2022 2:48 PM

[quote]Huh, Steven Culp being the son of Robert Culp was definitely the gossip that summer at Williamstown, [R211], but doing a quick google search tells me you're right. If only we had the internet back in 1986.

He was the son of Marty and Bobbi Mohan Culp.

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by Anonymousreply 222November 25, 2022 4:38 PM

Not THE Marty Culp??? Wow.

by Anonymousreply 223November 25, 2022 6:04 PM

[quote]I'm talking about people still talking about how MTM didn't win in 1980 (over 40 years ago - but germane to this thread) Jack Nicholson didn't win in 1974, or Judy Garland in 1954., for ex. People are obsessed by this stuff, now. much more than they ever used to be. The Oscars have been around a lot longer, I guess, and have taken on this almost mythic or religious significance to some people nowadays.

I think these conversations are more popular now than ever before because all these movies are now at our fingertips - from streaming, to DVDs. So people see these films with a new set of eyes from 40, 50 or 60 years ago.

Recently, I rewatched 'Ordinary People' on DVD - first time rewatching it since seeing it in the theater when I was 17. At the age of 50+ I saw it with a new set of eyes and a lifetime of experience - and realized what a powerful movie it was (at 17 I recall being bored to tears, but back then my friends and I used to go and see all the Oscar-nominated movies). In retrospect, MTM did deserve the Oscar.

Likewise, I've always been in the Streisand camp that she was 'robbed' of the Oscar for 'The Way We Were' in 1974. However, after finally re-watching 'A Touch of Class' streaming on one of the movie channels, I realize Glenda Jackson was so much better in her role - and she deserved the Oscar over Streisand.

by Anonymousreply 224November 25, 2022 6:39 PM

R2`12 - I assume the Bette and Sally debate is over Bette Midler losing the Oscar to Sally Field.

by Anonymousreply 225November 25, 2022 6:48 PM

Then there's the Diana Ross / Liza Minnelli debate from 1972.

by Anonymousreply 226November 25, 2022 7:05 PM

R224 = the Glenda Jackson troll

Those two roles cannot be compared. Streisand WAS robbed.

by Anonymousreply 227November 25, 2022 8:18 PM

I've just started reading Sally Kellerman's memoir. She's full of praise for MTM, saying that she was incredibly hard working. Kellerman took a role in the show on the understanding that she would go on for MTM in he absence, eventually taking over the role in the show's second year, which of course never came.

by Anonymousreply 228November 25, 2022 8:21 PM

*in her absence

by Anonymousreply 229November 25, 2022 8:21 PM

They should have replaced MTM with George Maharis.

by Anonymousreply 230November 25, 2022 8:37 PM

He was doing Barefoot in the Park, r230...

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by Anonymousreply 231November 25, 2022 8:40 PM

R231 Maharis calls himself a 'cat' and 'Buzz'.

by Anonymousreply 232November 25, 2022 9:47 PM

Buck would never call himself a cat.

by Anonymousreply 233November 25, 2022 9:59 PM

I'm so glad that 56 years later, we're finally unpacking this.

by Anonymousreply 234November 25, 2022 10:56 PM

Did anyone see the Mother of Dragons version? She would seem to be way too short for all of those gestures.

by Anonymousreply 235November 25, 2022 10:56 PM

Honestly other than elderly gays who gives a shit who won the best actress Oscar 40 or even 70 years ago?

by Anonymousreply 236November 25, 2022 10:58 PM

[quote]Honestly other than elderly gays who gives a shit who won the best actress Oscar 40 or even 70 years ago?

People who are interested in film history, r236.

by Anonymousreply 237November 25, 2022 11:26 PM

[quote]R233 Buck would never call himself a cat.

Excuse me… excuse me! I feel this is a matter requiring intervention.

In Beth-Speak it’s properly, “Buck never would have CALLED himself a cat!”

by Anonymousreply 238November 25, 2022 11:31 PM

[quote]I'm still prostrate with grief that Audrey wasn't even nominated in '64.

Yeah, and I've still got a prostate.

by Anonymousreply 239November 25, 2022 11:58 PM

Well, R239, I'm more concerned that in today's dog-killing thread someone uses a sentence with THREE verbs in it.

by Anonymousreply 240November 26, 2022 12:20 AM

[quote]r218 I don’t think Heatherton had the discipline for Broadway

Hey! The little tramp understudied Liesl AND Louisa in the original Sound of Music, so don’t besmirch her professionalism! She was also in something that closed within weeks called There was a Little Girl.

Note:

[italic] During this production's pre-Broadway tryout at Boston's Colonial Theatre, actor Louis Jean Heydt died during a performance. He performed his first scene, then collapsed backstage soon afterward. Understudy William Adler finished the performance in his role. [/italic]

I guess he sensed it was going to bomb.

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by Anonymousreply 241November 26, 2022 12:31 AM

I wonder how Audrey, ensconced in Switzerland, took the news of this Broadway failure?

Freddy Raphael visited the Switzerland house and noted her relationship with husband "Melchior" had become very sour.

by Anonymousreply 242November 26, 2022 12:43 AM

R224 People think Streisand deserved an Oscar for that tripe?

by Anonymousreply 243November 26, 2022 12:52 AM

^ Jewish septuagenarians thought Streisand deserved an Oscar for that tripe.

by Anonymousreply 244November 26, 2022 12:54 AM

Was Capote still alive at the time of this fiasco ! ?

by Anonymousreply 245November 26, 2022 12:56 AM

Yes, r245. 1966 was the same year that In Cold Blood was published.

by Anonymousreply 246November 26, 2022 1:02 AM

Truman Capote lived for at least 20 years after this.

by Anonymousreply 247November 26, 2022 1:28 AM

Oh yes straight people still care Garland didn't win the Oscar for A Star is Born. And lost it to pretty Miss Cardboard Who Couldn't Act Her Way Out of a Paper Bag of 1954.

by Anonymousreply 248November 26, 2022 1:38 AM

Miss Cardboard was a useless clothes horse.

by Anonymousreply 249November 26, 2022 1:41 AM

So, r248, we shouldn't care because straight people don't?

by Anonymousreply 250November 26, 2022 1:49 AM

Those straight people were mere mitigating circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 251November 26, 2022 1:55 AM

In 1966 Sally Kellerman hadn't yet done MASH. Was she known for anything on Broadway or film before that?

by Anonymousreply 252November 26, 2022 1:55 AM

She did a That Girl...

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by Anonymousreply 253November 26, 2022 2:05 AM

Joey Heatherton was in the OBC of Sound of Music. She played a nun and understudied Liesel and Louisa.

by Anonymousreply 254November 26, 2022 2:05 AM

Joey Heatherton did summer stock too. She was in TAKE ME ALONG with Dan Dailey and Alice Ghostley.

by Anonymousreply 255November 26, 2022 2:10 AM

Joey Heatherton as a nun...

by Anonymousreply 256November 26, 2022 2:13 AM

Forget Joey Heatherton, Miss Ann-Margret might have made Holly Golightly work on stage.

by Anonymousreply 257November 26, 2022 2:15 AM

Joey and Gene.

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by Anonymousreply 258November 26, 2022 2:15 AM

^^ this makes the insufferable Gene Kelly look like a child molester working a park.

by Anonymousreply 259November 26, 2022 2:30 AM

Sally did an Outer Limits, which got her to the William Morris agency. The agency told her manager that David Merrick was only seeing stars for the leads in Breakfast At Tiffany's. Her manager threw a fit and the Morris agency arranged for a meeting with Merrick. Merrick told Sally that if MTM turned down the offer of the lead, Sally could then audition for the part. Sally's pets, a cat and a dog, also attended the meeting. Merrick thought that Sally pretended her dog was named Holly, though Sally claimed that she didn't.

by Anonymousreply 260November 26, 2022 2:31 AM

Chita didn't have a face for the screen, did she.

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by Anonymousreply 261November 26, 2022 2:34 AM

Thank you for posting that R35. It hit me like a sucker punch to see a NYC that no longer exists. It's now a dystopian post Covid city of unneeded bike lanes, unmoving traffic and every building covered in scaffolding, even Tiffany's. I actually started to cry a bit with nostalgia. Thank you Bill Deblassio for your eight years of destruction and thank you Eric Ryan for continuing the legacy "Get Stuff Done" my ass!

by Anonymousreply 262November 26, 2022 2:38 AM

r245 has apparently never heard of Lionel Twain.

by Anonymousreply 263November 26, 2022 2:49 AM

[quote]Maharis calls himself a 'cat' and 'Buzz'.

'Buzz' is the name of his character in his most famous role. ("Route 66.")

by Anonymousreply 264November 26, 2022 2:54 AM

I wonder if Maharis was catting around the washrooms of Manhattan at this time.

And how did he catch that hepatitis he mentions at R231?

by Anonymousreply 265November 26, 2022 2:58 AM

R259 You should see Marjorie Morningstar.

by Anonymousreply 266November 26, 2022 3:09 AM

Dancing Mary

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by Anonymousreply 267November 26, 2022 3:40 AM

Why isn't that show listed on IMDb?

by Anonymousreply 268November 26, 2022 5:01 AM

I don't know, r268. It was on the Danny Kaye Show.

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by Anonymousreply 269November 26, 2022 5:13 AM

Ok. Danny Kaye October 14, 1964. What is the Kurt Weill music mixed in with Ten Cents a Dance?

by Anonymousreply 270November 26, 2022 5:21 AM

MTM is kind of a cold performer- which is why Ordinary People shouldn’t have been seen as that much of a stretch for her.

In other news, I’ve never seen her in this sob story, but someday:

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by Anonymousreply 271November 26, 2022 5:23 AM

There was a recent thread about that movie. Also Mary writes about it in her memoir. The movie, that is, not the thread.

by Anonymousreply 272November 26, 2022 5:26 AM

Listening to sultry Joey sing in French almost got me hard.

by Anonymousreply 273November 26, 2022 5:28 AM

Isn't that music from Threepenny?

by Anonymousreply 274November 26, 2022 5:29 AM

Did any of you old whores see the Emilia Clarke play version of Breakfast? I saw a making of on the English production, and it read very shouty and awful. What was the NY production like?

by Anonymousreply 275November 26, 2022 6:15 AM

NYT: "Ms. Clarke comes across as an under-age debutante trying very, very hard to pass for a sophisticated grown-up. This makes Holly’s whimsy go soggy. "

by Anonymousreply 276November 26, 2022 7:44 AM

[quote]Forget Joey Heatherton, Miss Ann-Margret might have made Holly Golightly work on stage.

Speaking of, the cast of a new Christmas movie on the Hallmark Channel premiering Sunday, "A Holiday Spectacular," includes Ann-Margret and Eve Plumb. It centers around the Rockettes, but I don't think A-M will be doing any dancing.

by Anonymousreply 277November 26, 2022 8:27 AM

Too bad Ann Margaret never did broadway. I know she was offered Sugar and a chance to replace Liza in The Act but what a great Roxie Hart she would have been.

by Anonymousreply 278November 26, 2022 1:14 PM

Ann-Margret really wanted Cassie in the movie of "A Chorus Line."

by Anonymousreply 279November 26, 2022 1:15 PM

That disastrous stage version of BaT with Emilia Clarke had such a short run, very few people saw it.

by Anonymousreply 280November 26, 2022 2:42 PM

Breakfast at Tiffany's and Lolita continue to defy stage adaptations, be they musicals or plays.

by Anonymousreply 281November 26, 2022 2:51 PM

Well if they keep trying they might turn into another Pygmalion.

by Anonymousreply 282November 26, 2022 3:22 PM

R290 = 17 previews and 38 performances.

by Anonymousreply 283November 26, 2022 3:32 PM

Kellerman obviously would have been better as Holly - maybe not perfect, idk, but you need someone offbeat and quirky. Audrey H put that across. Marty Tyler Moore was like a high school Englsih teacher, or yes, a suburban housewife. I can't see Ann-Marget in it. she never registered as an offbeat personality. Maybe Elizabeth Ashley, Could she sing? Or Paula Prentiss.

by Anonymousreply 284November 26, 2022 3:34 PM

*Mary

by Anonymousreply 285November 26, 2022 3:35 PM

A young Liz Ashley would have been perfect in a straight play version. Exactly the right type after her Barefoot in the Park days.

by Anonymousreply 286November 26, 2022 3:36 PM

r283, that's about a month of performances, previews and all. Disastrously short run!

by Anonymousreply 287November 26, 2022 3:37 PM

Elizabeth Ashley sings.

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by Anonymousreply 288November 26, 2022 3:37 PM

R288 You made me click on that!

by Anonymousreply 289November 26, 2022 4:00 PM

One of the most surprising and ultimately touching things in the movie was when you find out Holly was born and raised in Appalachia or someplace like that, a rural place, in poverty, that she totally reinvented herself into this surface sophisticate. I can't picture MTM playing that (if it was even in the play) and I can't picture her being warm and supportive to the Paul Varjac character, like Audrey was.

by Anonymousreply 290November 26, 2022 4:30 PM

Maybe they could have cast Dolly Parton!

by Anonymousreply 291November 26, 2022 4:38 PM

It is a stretch even for Hepburn but her magic is such you go with it.

by Anonymousreply 292November 26, 2022 4:46 PM

I didn’t buy Hepburn as a Cockney street urchin in MFL either, but you just have to go with it.

by Anonymousreply 293November 26, 2022 5:43 PM

I never miss a Sally Kellerman musical.

by Anonymousreply 294November 26, 2022 6:01 PM

You gotta remember Mary was cast as Holly solely based on what they'd seen of her as Laura Petrie. The musical was before the MTM show and even before Thoroughly Modern Millie. It seems pretty insane to me that anyone could have thought she'd be right for Holly.

by Anonymousreply 295November 26, 2022 6:08 PM

Well, wasn't Holly thought of as a Marilyn Monroe type but they cast Audrey Hepburn... Unusual casting choices can pay off.

by Anonymousreply 296November 26, 2022 6:10 PM

[quote]It's really important to try and hurt me isn't it?...—MTM Had Never Even Said "Mr. Grant" in 1966

The quote says "years later" after both shows were over he was asked about it

by Anonymousreply 297November 26, 2022 6:14 PM

[quote}Too bad Ann Margaret never did broadway.

But she got to do "the Flintstones," which is why she is known today, and I, despite being 'Queen of Broadway," am an unknown.

by Anonymousreply 298November 26, 2022 6:17 PM

I've heard the sound board recording of Breakfast at Tiffany's which was recorded during one of the Broadway previews. It's not supposed to exist but of course it does. It is the entire show from overture to the audience milling out after the curtain call. It's been a while but as I recall Mary really tries to be engaging, but she was just miscast as Holly. Richard is pleasant and not quite a dull as you might expect. There is no real chemistry between the leads, though they try. The book is a little dark and plodding and overly talky. As people have said upthread the audience wanted the movie on stage and they wanted to hear "Moon River" or a song like it but there are no hits from the score.

Sally Kellerman completely steals the show. The show comes alive when she is on stage and goes to sleep when she goes back off. Sally Kellerman should have been Holly. She can be funny and vulnerable and she connects with the audience. If she were Holly you could see why the Jeff character would be attracted to her. and you would buy that "Holly" is a new persona that Lulamae created for herself. The Holly that Mary created doesn't feel like a socialite or a party girl or even a call girl; she's just a coarser version of Miss Dorothy from Thoroughly Modern Millie.

by Anonymousreply 299November 26, 2022 6:59 PM

[quote]Well, wasn't Holly thought of as a Marilyn Monroe type but they cast Audrey Hepburn... Unusual casting choices can pay off.

Truman Capote wanted Marilyn to play Holly in the movie.

by Anonymousreply 300November 26, 2022 7:06 PM

They wanted Neely O'Hara for Holly and I told them, "Broadway doesn't go for booze and dope."

by Anonymousreply 301November 26, 2022 7:08 PM

[quote] It's really important to try and hurt me isn't it?...—MTM Had Never Even Said "Mr. Grant" in 1966

I can’t believe that queen Richard Chamberlain would have ever said such cruel things about beloved MTM.

by Anonymousreply 302November 26, 2022 7:36 PM

I don't think he did say those things.

by Anonymousreply 303November 26, 2022 7:42 PM

Isn't it funny how gay men put down other gay men by using the word "queen" but they uplift women, usually heterosexual, with the label "Queen!"

by Anonymousreply 304November 26, 2022 7:43 PM

R304. True. You can also be a diva or a Diva.

by Anonymousreply 305November 26, 2022 7:47 PM

Emilia Clarke in BAT.

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by Anonymousreply 306November 26, 2022 9:23 PM

Liz Ashley did a ‘spoken word’ LP recording of Breakfast at Tiffany’s with David Dukes. I have it but haven’t listened to it in many years but I remember thinking Ashley would have made a great Holly on stage or screen.

by Anonymousreply 307November 26, 2022 9:23 PM

Pic of cover.

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by Anonymousreply 308November 26, 2022 9:25 PM

Richard sings.

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by Anonymousreply 309November 27, 2022 1:51 AM

^ Why do Americans insist on clapping their hands DURING the performance.?

It is rude, distracting and interrupts the performer's art!

by Anonymousreply 310November 27, 2022 1:59 AM

I assume they are acknowledging the song. AAAAAAApril LOOOOOOOOOOOVe. He has quite the vibrato.

by Anonymousreply 311November 27, 2022 2:03 AM

John Gary makes a nice quiet case for "You've Never Kissed Her" here that gets a bit big at the end, but is enjoyable overall. I like it better than the bombastic Linden on the studio cast album and the twanging Ernie Freeman arrangement with angel chorus background behind Vic Damone's cover (both on RCA).

Wonder why they didn't make Marilyn Maye sing half the score, she was at RCA then.

Frankie Randall's cover of "Holly Golightly" used to be on YouTube but can't find it now.

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by Anonymousreply 312November 27, 2022 2:37 AM

Nice but they should have nixed those strings.

by Anonymousreply 313November 27, 2022 3:37 AM

Sally sings

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by Anonymousreply 314November 27, 2022 7:06 AM

Let's not forget this infectious singalong.

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by Anonymousreply 315November 27, 2022 2:17 PM

Was the Chamberlain character in the musical clearly a rent boy?

by Anonymousreply 316November 27, 2022 2:19 PM

Sally dropped out of Come Back to the 5 and Dime before rehearsals began and was replaced by Karen Black. Shame she didn’t do more theatre.

by Anonymousreply 317November 27, 2022 2:40 PM

Was she touchy about playing a transsexual?

by Anonymousreply 318November 27, 2022 2:41 PM

Whoa… judging from those You Tube clips it’s a mercy this thing died early.

by Anonymousreply 319November 27, 2022 2:45 PM

The musical I mean. Dear Sally was taken too soon.

by Anonymousreply 320November 27, 2022 2:47 PM

As a score, it has several really lovely, fun songs, and some "high-quality" floppo material.

But another issue with the show is that it was vulgar for the late '60s, especially in what audiences expected from an Audrey Hepburn film now with lovable MTM. Audiences simply did not want to see Laura Petrie singing about peeing in bed and taking cocaine in the arm. One song has a lyric about Snow White having sex with a marine, for God's sake! Audiences wanted the charming movie Holly, the lost innocent, not the crass, common opportunistic whore of the novella. The musical tried to have it both ways.

Albee book is deadly. Humorless and pitch dark. Listen to the bootleg of the full show. You can tell the whole thing just thuds there like a lead balloon. DOA.

by Anonymousreply 321November 27, 2022 4:19 PM

What was Merrick thinking? Did he think he was being au courant?

by Anonymousreply 322November 27, 2022 4:22 PM

In the dull play version, Cory Michael Smith was sexy as hell. One shan't soon forget the sight of his swinging pendulum as he rose from the bathtub.

by Anonymousreply 323November 27, 2022 4:22 PM

Albee book is deadly. Humorless and pitch dark.

Like Merrick should have expected anything else? Merrick knew exactly what he was doing. What one has to wonder is exactly why he did what he did when he knew just what audiences were expecting from this musical. It's like Mack and Mable. The Broadway audiences of the time were not going to see a David Merrick/ Gower Champion/Jerry Herman musical to see it end with the heroine dying a drug addict. Maybe possibly being run over by a train in a comic stunt gone wrong but by a heroin overdose no.

by Anonymousreply 324November 27, 2022 7:41 PM

Mable, Mable, sweet and able

Get your elbows off the tabel

by Anonymousreply 325November 27, 2022 7:56 PM

Yes let's get Edward Albee to spice up the book because his Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? was so funny. I can't recall one laugh in it. It's tortuous.

by Anonymousreply 326November 27, 2022 8:06 PM

Actually, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" has a lot of dark humor and some very funny lines in it. Where did you see it, R326? At the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theatre?

by Anonymousreply 327November 27, 2022 8:15 PM

I just had to watch the movie and hated it. Give me an example of a funny line in it?

by Anonymousreply 328November 27, 2022 8:22 PM

[quote]Actually, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" has a lot of dark humor and some very funny lines in it. Where did you see it, [R326]? At the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theatre?

Yes, and let me tell you, Ruth Buzzi and Arte Johnson were MASTERFUL.

by Anonymousreply 329November 27, 2022 8:41 PM

Buck would never have admitted he came from Appalachia.

by Anonymousreply 330November 27, 2022 8:42 PM

I’m picturing Burt Reynolds and Sally Field as George and Martha.

by Anonymousreply 331November 27, 2022 8:52 PM

Burt and Sally as George and Martha, circa 1994, would have been amazing.

by Anonymousreply 332November 27, 2022 9:17 PM

[quote]I just had to watch the movie and hated it. Give me an example of a funny line in it?

If you watched the movie and didn't find any of the lines funny, I can promise that you won't find them funny if I repeat them to you outside of the context of the play and an understanding of how the characters are interacting. It isn't Neil Simon.

by Anonymousreply 333November 27, 2022 10:11 PM

Here's one Al Pillay, singing Holly's replacement 11 o'clocker, complete with gestures, in his cabaret act. "While I'm salty and I'm young"

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by Anonymousreply 334November 27, 2022 11:00 PM

Interesting fact about Joey Heatherton...she was a WHORE!

by Anonymousreply 335November 27, 2022 11:03 PM

R334 -- Al Pillay! I never heard of Al Pillary until your post. But now, I'm obsessed. From the hand gestures to the song choice to the delectable twink at the piano. Is he still around singing? Is he the gay Shirley Bassey? Will he be at Don't Tell Mama's for the holidays?

by Anonymousreply 336November 27, 2022 11:11 PM

Al Pillay is the poor man's Liza!

by Anonymousreply 337November 27, 2022 11:17 PM

Funny you say that R336, I thought at first he was doing late career Judy in her "Summer of Love" Valley of the Dolls pantsuit and hair look, what with the left-handed gestures. Then he sang "New guy!" and I realized, that's just Al.

Love the ladder climbing gesture, the "overcome the shakes" gesture, the "fingers get the feel" theatre for the deaf gesture, and the finger to the temple (which I don't quite get) for "some supreme variations on a theme".

by Anonymousreply 338November 27, 2022 11:43 PM

in thigh-highs

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by Anonymousreply 339November 28, 2022 12:01 AM

R338 - exactly! The gestures are done with complete conviction, even if totally nonsensical. The finger-to-temple is a prime example. I also love how on "shakes" he does jazz hands. Wonderful!

by Anonymousreply 340November 28, 2022 12:02 AM

R326 & R327 Your comments reminded me of the old SCTV version of "Who's Afraid of Virginial Woolf" with Andrea Martin as Barbra Streisand playing Martha.

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by Anonymousreply 341November 28, 2022 12:39 AM

[Quote] Al Pillay! I never heard of Al Pillary until your post. But now, I'm obsessed. From the hand gestures to the song choice to the delectable twink at the piano. Is he still around singing? Is he the gay Shirley Bassey? Will he be at Don't Tell Mama's for the holidays?

He had a "You Spin Me 'Round"-alike record in the 1980s: "Pistol In My Pocket," credited to Lana Pellay.

by Anonymousreply 342November 28, 2022 12:51 AM

Sally Kellerman was friends with Jennifer Jones, and this apparently began (or maybe continued) when Sally was in group therapy, with Jennifer running the group as a lay therapist. I remember her talking about it when JJ died.

by Anonymousreply 343November 28, 2022 1:04 AM

[quote]Yes, and let me tell you, Ruth Buzzi and Arte Johnson were MASTERFUL.

Sadly, no one wanted to play "Hump the Hostess" with Ruth.

by Anonymousreply 344November 28, 2022 1:21 AM

[quote] Sadly, no one wanted to play "Hump the Hostess" with Ruth.

R344 Until the aging Johnson and Buzzi thought they were back on Laugh-In playing Tyrone and Gladys.

by Anonymousreply 345November 28, 2022 1:29 AM

I always get Sally Kellerman and Sally Kirkland confused.

by Anonymousreply 346November 28, 2022 1:41 AM

I prefer American Dad's, r341...

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by Anonymousreply 347November 28, 2022 1:58 AM

'Yes, and let me tell you, Ruth Buzzi and Arte Johnson were MASTERFUL.'

And who played Martha and George?

by Anonymousreply 348November 28, 2022 2:17 AM

Er, "What a dump!"

by Anonymousreply 349November 28, 2022 2:20 AM

Holly Golightly as a swingin' jazz waltz, courtesy of Ken and Beverly

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by Anonymousreply 350November 28, 2022 2:42 AM

If there was a sound board for the musical, that would have meant it was mic'd, right? (or miked, idk.)

by Anonymousreply 351November 28, 2022 12:58 PM

Somebody pointed out shows have been mic'd since the 30s. I believe the original Funny Girl was the first with body mics.

by Anonymousreply 352November 28, 2022 1:39 PM

How did they ever hide those early mics, like the one Streisand supposedly wore in FG? There are scores of production photos of her in FG yet none expose a mic, either on her forehead or on her chest (and several of her costumes were quite low-cut). I've never seen a production shot of any star from that era in which the mic was seen. How was it hidden and yet did its job?

When the more modern mics started, as on Glenn Close in Sunset Boulevard, the mics were clearly seen on her forehead. She had to wear 2 so that there was always a back-up mic. Did sound designers and costume and wig designers just give up and let the mics be seen? Why??

by Anonymousreply 353November 28, 2022 2:34 PM

What is a mic?

by Anonymousreply 354November 28, 2022 3:17 PM

Mic(rophone)

by Anonymousreply 355November 28, 2022 3:22 PM

[quote]Somebody pointed out shows have been mic'd since the 30s.

"Somebody pointed out". Does that mean that it's accurate info? All shows? My parents (who were in their 20s, at the time) saw South Pacific and had to sit in the back of the upper-most balcony and always said they couldn't hear most of it.

by Anonymousreply 356November 28, 2022 3:53 PM

Microphones in the footlights were common in musicals in the 1930s and 1940s but body mics started to be used much later. Mary Martin wore one just for the flying sequence in PETER PAN in 1954. Anna Maria Alberghetti wore one in CARNIVAL! in 1961. Barbra Streisand wore one in FUNNY GIRL. They were hidden in costumes and not meant to be seen. Nowadays, performers have them right on their faces--we are supposed to not notice.

by Anonymousreply 357November 28, 2022 4:05 PM

This says foot mics were first used in the 1950s. No idea if it's correct, though.

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by Anonymousreply 358November 28, 2022 4:32 PM

Those huge pimples on people's face are horrible

by Anonymousreply 359November 28, 2022 4:55 PM

Microphones have always been problematic. Even in the movies.

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by Anonymousreply 360November 28, 2022 5:05 PM

Helen Traubel required some mic help (bizarre, given her opera background) for Pipe Dream. Not a body mic, but mics onstage.

by Anonymousreply 361November 28, 2022 5:59 PM

Also overhead microphones.

by Anonymousreply 362November 28, 2022 6:20 PM

I still don't understand how mics could be that well-hidden and do the job effectively. Why don't they just use those old body mics??

by Anonymousreply 363November 28, 2022 7:02 PM

R358, that article was definitely wrong that the first body mics were introduced with FUNNY GIRL so I wouldn't believe the assertion that foot mics weren't introduced until the 1950s--they had been in use in the 1930s and 1940s. For one example, music director Robert Emmett Dolan wrote to Oscar Hammerstein about microphones and theatres in 1938 presumably for their upcoming production of VERY WARM FOR MAY.

by Anonymousreply 364November 28, 2022 8:58 PM

During a performance of Carnival Anna Maria Alberghetti used the facilities but forgot to turn off her mic. Poor Jerry Orbach was onstage singing his heart out and FLUSHHHHHHHHJJJ

by Anonymousreply 365November 28, 2022 11:11 PM

^ How mortifying!

by Anonymousreply 366November 28, 2022 11:17 PM

[quote]Poor Jerry Orbach was onstage singing his heart out and FLUSHHHHHHHHJJJ

I heard that it was a particularly loud #2, r365.

by Anonymousreply 367November 28, 2022 11:29 PM

I wonder if the porcelain echo helped Jerry's pitch.

by Anonymousreply 368November 28, 2022 11:33 PM

I think the sound man, not Alberghetti, would be responsible for turning off the microphone.

by Anonymousreply 369November 28, 2022 11:43 PM

Then Alberghetti in a taxi shouldn't have pissed off the sound man, r369.

by Anonymousreply 370November 28, 2022 11:45 PM

Alberghetti in a taxi?

by Anonymousreply 371November 28, 2022 11:56 PM

Alberghetti was taking a loud resounding good old fashioned gassy Italiano #2? And delighted the audience in which theater? The Imperial or the Winter Garden where long run turds have taken up residence for many years at a time?

by Anonymousreply 372November 29, 2022 12:26 AM

Get with it, r371...

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by Anonymousreply 373November 29, 2022 12:46 AM

I read this on a Broadway World forum:

"Rodgers and Hammerstein insisted that floor mics be used for SOUTH PACIFIC because they thought that the dialogue and lyrics were getting lost up in the rear mezzanine and balcony of the theatre. Apparently, they put a mic on the stage and went up to watch the show in the balcony and could hear every word. The rest is history..."

So I'm guessing my parents saw the show before that...

by Anonymousreply 374November 29, 2022 1:35 AM

At least Anna Maria hadn't eaten corn.

by Anonymousreply 375November 29, 2022 2:44 AM

That we know of, Carol.

by Anonymousreply 376November 29, 2022 3:32 AM

[quote]What is a mic?

A loudmouth drunk Irish...

by Anonymousreply 377November 29, 2022 3:39 AM

"Corn, when did I eat corn?"

by Anonymousreply 378November 29, 2022 3:43 AM

R373 I'm not American and never saw that Tv show so I don't understand why that joke is funny.

Are we supposed to be laughing AT that old guy on the right instead of laughing at the joke itself?

by Anonymousreply 379November 29, 2022 3:51 AM

Isn't it a song lyric?

by Anonymousreply 380November 29, 2022 3:52 AM

It's supposed to be *so* bad that it's funny, r379.

by Anonymousreply 381November 29, 2022 3:52 AM

OK, thank you, R381.

It seems Anna Maria Alberghetti still alive. I wonder if she was consulted before this bad joke was broadcast?

by Anonymousreply 382November 29, 2022 3:55 AM

Yes, r380, without the AMA bit...

[quote]I'll be down to get you in a taxi, honey, haw

Please, be ready 'bout half-past eight

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by Anonymousreply 383November 29, 2022 3:57 AM

[quote] I'm not American and never saw that Tv show

Two strikes against you, R379. One more, you're banned for life

by Anonymousreply 384November 29, 2022 4:53 AM

[quote]According to Wikipedia, after Albee rewrote the book it came in at just under FOUR HOURS.

BULL! Merrick isn't that crazy!

by Anonymousreply 385November 29, 2022 5:06 AM

[quote] Albee …came in at just under FOUR HOURS.

I'm only a youngster but was that back in the days when a proper night at the opera, ballet or legitimate theatre included TWO intervals?

by Anonymousreply 386November 29, 2022 5:25 AM

[quote]"Corn, when did I eat corn?"

Hasn't this gag died of old age yet?

by Anonymousreply 387November 29, 2022 8:16 AM

R373, get with it? It's a bad joke from 1975 that doesn't make sense unless you include the "honey," honey.

by Anonymousreply 388November 29, 2022 1:56 PM

Many ballets and operas still have two intervals. I don't know why you don't know that unless you never go. You might want to experience them.

by Anonymousreply 389November 29, 2022 6:45 PM

A lot of theaters must have been built, before there was miking, with the assumption that actors and/or singers would be heard from every seat, though, right? Whatever happened to speaking up, projecting, or singing loudly enough to be heard?

by Anonymousreply 390November 29, 2022 6:47 PM

Shows are orchestrated differently. Broadway singers could not be heard over some latterday type orchestrations.

by Anonymousreply 391November 29, 2022 6:50 PM

R391 It's a two-way street. Shows are orchestrated that way because there's miking. But, anyway, what about straight plays?

by Anonymousreply 392November 29, 2022 6:56 PM

[quote]But, anyway, what about straight plays?

I saw "Oslo" at Lincoln Center and missed half the dialogue. And when you miss half the dialogue in a play like "Oslo," you're in for a very long three hours. I should have gotten one of those headsets for the hearing-impaired.

by Anonymousreply 393November 29, 2022 11:05 PM

I wouldn't even go to Oslo, never mind play called Oslo.

by Anonymousreply 394November 30, 2022 12:37 AM

They'd drum you right outta Oslo, r394.

by Anonymousreply 395November 30, 2022 1:43 AM

R395 Because?

by Anonymousreply 396November 30, 2022 1:44 AM

I loved Audrey in Givenchy and Pat in Trigère...

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by Anonymousreply 397November 30, 2022 1:46 AM

I think Audrey Christie would have been great in it.

by Anonymousreply 398November 30, 2022 1:51 AM

(R334), here's the real deal.

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by Anonymousreply 399November 30, 2022 6:48 AM

^

She can only do one note per syllable.

by Anonymousreply 400November 30, 2022 6:53 AM

It reminds me of I'll Plant My Own Tree.

by Anonymousreply 401November 30, 2022 7:10 AM

🙈 It was a huge error in judgement to vainly attempt to turn this into a musical.

Nobody likes musicals. Well, I suppose Helen Keller might enjoy an occasional musical.

by Anonymousreply 402November 30, 2022 8:02 PM

That live cut of Moore would have been sensational on a real obc. It seems like it would have been a favorite lp of a flop musical.

by Anonymousreply 403November 30, 2022 8:15 PM

Honestly that song is better than anything in a big hit like Applause.

by Anonymousreply 404November 30, 2022 8:18 PM

[quote] A lot of theaters must have been built, before there was miking, with the assumption that actors and/or singers would be heard from every seat, though, right? Whatever happened to speaking up, projecting, or singing loudly enough to be heard?

You have to remember that audiences back in the days before mics really strained to hear, especially in those gigantic Broadway houses like the Palace and the St. james and the Winter Garden. it's often been said of Ethel merman that she was a star not because she was necessarily that charming or had such a beautifully voice but because in those days without mics she was so loud everyone could hear her, even at the very back of the theater. Few people had that kind of a voice, so the move to mics was really welcome, especially for older people.

by Anonymousreply 405November 30, 2022 9:50 PM

*"had such a beautiful voice," not "beautifully"--sorry.

by Anonymousreply 406November 30, 2022 9:51 PM

[quote]Breakfast at Tiffany's - The Musical - What Went Wrong

Breakfast at Tiffany's - The Musical

by Anonymousreply 407November 30, 2022 9:54 PM

[quote] those gigantic Broadway houses like the Palace and the St. james and the Winter Garden.

R405 But were those houses any larger than the opera houses of Europe?

(I regret that the art of singing has regressed over this last century and the use of microphones)

by Anonymousreply 408November 30, 2022 10:01 PM

The people too for the most part probably had better hearing. Especially the younger people. And they were accustomed to being more involved in what was going on on stage. They had to be really focused and involved. It was a necessity. I don't know for sure I wasn't there. At least I think I wasn't though at times I do think I might have lived then and might have been reincarnated. I enjoy the old stuff too much for it to make much sense.

by Anonymousreply 409November 30, 2022 10:34 PM

R405 But not every show had Ethel Merman in it.

R409 Why would people have had better hearing then?

by Anonymousreply 410December 1, 2022 7:01 AM

[quote]Nobody likes musicals. Well, I suppose Helen Keller might enjoy an occasional musical.

Meanwhile, DL just reached its 100 millionth post about "Follies."

by Anonymousreply 411December 1, 2022 7:35 AM

It's clearly and understandably very hard for younger people to understand what a different experience going to Broadway theatre used to be. That the sound was generally unfiltered by body microphones gave the performance an immediacy and directness that just doesn't exist today. Instead of being disembodied as today, the sound actually emanated from the performer's throat.

The audience was very aware of the conductor as they could see his head and even sometimes members of the orchestra in the pit. The scenery and lighting were also relatively simpler, if more primitive, so there was less of a "barrier" between the performers and the audience. A little thing like wigs - there was much less wigging so the actresses all felt more real, less artificial.

I remember seeing shows in the 1960s, way up in the balcony, and you would see tape on the floor denoting where pieces of scenery and props had to land, often pulled in by the ensemble cast. Much less automation, it just all felt more alive.

I could go on....but you get the idea.

by Anonymousreply 412December 1, 2022 2:21 PM

What musicals have ever improved upon the film version? (yes, I know BaT was based on the book - but you know what I mean).

by Anonymousreply 413December 1, 2022 3:40 PM

Newsies, r413!

by Anonymousreply 414December 1, 2022 3:42 PM

[quote]A little thing like wigs - there was much less wigging so the actresses all felt more real, less artificial.

Wrong, r412.

by Anonymousreply 415December 1, 2022 6:18 PM

I was talking to somebody about those beauty shots of young women on postcards during the Edwardian era where they don't wear a hat and they've got all this hair. You know like Gladys Cooper when she was young. I said what's with the hair and he said they added falls. That hair wasn't all real. I didn't know. I thought they just might have been healthier and had more lustrous hair.

What do you think?

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by Anonymousreply 416December 1, 2022 9:58 PM

Not falls, r416. Women would save their hair from their brushes. That hair could be used for pieces that they'd comb their hair over to create height and volume. Like a Bump-it.

[quote]Hair receivers were common on the dressing tables of women from the Victorian era through the 1950s. They were used to collect hair from hair brushes for a variety of purposes: making hair art, filling pincusions or other small pillows, or for creating elaborate hair styles.

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by Anonymousreply 417December 1, 2022 10:20 PM

And voodoo dolls.

by Anonymousreply 418December 1, 2022 10:24 PM

Those little hair fillers were called rats. Most women used them, as those Gibson Girl dos were so voluminous. But most women had quite long hair, so there was a lot to work with even without the rats.

I suspect there's some additional hair added to r416's hair, you can almost see a texture difference in the bun, or Nike Knot, as that style of bun was called then.

by Anonymousreply 419December 2, 2022 1:12 AM

The rat...

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by Anonymousreply 420December 2, 2022 1:20 AM

Kind of far afield from what went wrong with Breakfast at Tiffany's - The Musical.

by Anonymousreply 421December 3, 2022 1:28 AM

David Merrick was a rat.

by Anonymousreply 422December 3, 2022 1:31 AM

A big, fat rat.

by Anonymousreply 423December 3, 2022 1:36 AM
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