Why doesn't Janet Jackson have the streaming numbers her peers have?

Because she has 2 good songs and has been coasting on an unearned legacy in pop culture for decades.

Because she hasn't been relevant since the 1990s. I mean you yourself said Whitney and Madonna who are both dead as far as I know are outperforming her so connect the dots Gladys.

Because she can't sing and never could. Her "talent" consisted of imitating Michael's herky-jerky dance moves.

To be fair at least half of Mariah's monthly listeners are just there for her christmas song.

R2 Cyndi Lauper hasn't been relevant since the 80s and she doesn't have as many hit singles as Janet Jackson, and yet, she has almost double the amount of Spotify monthly listeners.

Nipplegate did pretty much ruin her. Les Moonves, the CBS CEO at the time (until his abuse and sexual assault accusations in 2018), pretty from banned her from CBS properties, including MTV and VH1. This is back when those actually kinda mattered. He even got furious later when Janet got a book deal in 2011 through Simon & Schuster which is/was owned by CBS. With her being pretty much banned she wouldn't be able to get any new fans, especially since post 9/11 conservative mindset at the time would've prevented her from getting any spotlight literally anywhere else.

And then new stars started popping up in the mid and late 00s... Beyonce's solo endeavors right before Nipplegate, Rihanna, then Katy Perry, etc so any younger audiences would latch onto them instead of her. And in general other than the black community Janet probably didn't have a large fanbase and was more like Katy Perry in this regard, where she kept getting #1s due to the GP being cool with her but once she did something they didn't like, they moved onto the next person.

As for just her monthly listeners, Janet must not be on any popular playlists. Mariah right now is being propped up by Christmas playlists. Cyndi Lauper in general is propped up by GJWHF and Time after Time being on just about every 80s/female/pop/oldies playlist. Without her Christmas song Mariah is more 10-15 million monthly, and Cyndi would have as many as Janet without those two songs.

Well why aren't any of Janet's songs on any popular playlists?

For modern/new songs they have to pay to get them put on a popular playlist. Not sure if it's the same for other playlists with old songs but I wouldn't be surprised.

I’m 33 so people my age only knew Janet from the All For You era. I’ve since watched Rhythm Nation and appreciated her artistry, but her stuff — like Michael’s — sounds extremely of its time. Totally and aggressively 80’s and very, very dated. Nothing really iconic to culture like Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, either.

She was a very visual artist. She made a career out of music videos. The songs weren't that good.

I disagree r10, Janet had good songs. It's just that unlike those other artists, Janet hasn't had a hit album in 20 years (since the early 2000s) you drop out of public consciousness after that long. I dont think Janet cares at all either way.

Her peers either had big albums since then or they are dead like Whitney Houston and become a legacy act which drives interest.

I really don't think it has anything to do with the nipple thing. She was great at the time, but her music hasn't aged well for some reason.

If she died maybe her numbers would go up. Just a thought.

She couldn't sing. She kind of sucks as a heritage artist. I admire her commercial success and she seems pleasant.

The reason is... she is simply a terrible singer with very little stage presence.

A brief snippet to share. Back in the 1990s, when I worked for The Advocate Magazine, a.k.a. the inner circle of hell, we gave Miss Jackson some sort of bullshit award at one of the publication's bullshit galas. I'm not kidding when I say that the scripted MC's introduction about how supportive she was of the gay community lasted for 30 to 40 minutes. When the MC was finally finished, Miss Jackson entered the stage wearing a white pantsuit and a huge white fedora that was pulled so low you couldn't see her face. She whispered a quick "thank you" before leaving the stage. She was such a total fucking dud.

Later, I learned that she had been scheduled to do a performance as well as a more in-depth speech than the mundane "thank you." At the last minute, she reduced everything to what we had just witnessed. I'm glad my tickets were given for free. Her fans who had paid a lot of money to attend the gala were left disappointed, to say the least.

Mmany Janet fans prefer to play CDs and DVDs rather than stream single tracks at random. She's much more of an album artist, and her music is best listened to in sequence, with all the interludes and hidden tracks.

R16 Nice try

LOL @ R16! Absolutely hilarious!

Fact is - her career is dead and nobody knows or cares who she is anymore. Nobody listens to her CDs anymore.

They must not be counting interludes!

Hmmm... I do think Janet is lacking an iconic song. Maybe that's the problem. She's got a lot of A-/B+ songs, but no A+ one that people can point to.

Didn't Janet sing the theme song to Not Without My Daughter?

Or was it A Dingo Ate My Baby?

Mariah’s numbers were much lower than Madonna’s before Nov. Her number are always higher during Xmas season.

Mariaha only gets those numbers in Christmas, she even dips down to the low 15 millions throughout the year. Here are the highest peaking female artists. No madonna or janet

*Mariah

R24 they all look like the same sex doll with different skin tone and hair options.

Who’s 60.6 million?

Janet doesn’t have many listeners because she gave away her baby in the 80s. Karma may move slowly but it always catches up.

From top to bottom lol, taylor swift, ariana grande, dua lipa, adele, rihanna, doja cat, Mariah, camilla cabello, billie eilish, olivia rodrigo, sia, Shakira, gaga, cardi b, beyonce, nicki minaj, Halsey, bebe, selena gomez and katy perry.

She has less Spotify listeners than Mozart, Beethoven, Bach and people like Otis Redding. So embarrassing.

Btw jlow has never even reached 25 million, embarrassing.

Janet isn't even in the Top 1000 most streamed on Spotify. This just shows you that you can get a whole bunch of number 1's but if none of them are timeless you will be forgotten.

R31 Janet is easily the has-been 80s icon that's most forgettable. If it wasn't for her being part of the wacko clan and her tit incident she'd be even more obscure and irrelevant .

[Quote] I don’t know her.

Is Janet the only act with 10 number ones and over 100 million records sales that's been forgotten? Can't think of any other act that successful that's been left in the dust

Brandy had more monthly streams than her a while ago. There was a thread here on it.

r34 It's really weird. 80s indie rock band the Pixies has more Spotify monthly listeners than Janet. Imagine saying that the Pixies would have more popular music on the internet than Janet Jackson back in 2000.

R36 Her stans she she has left come up with the craziest conspiracies for why she's so forgotten. I think the general public just doesn't care about her music enough and finds her dull.

She has no "moments" in the social medial era, not a single one, she has no meaningful influence or impact on TikTok, IG or Netflix.

Maybe it comes down to her stinky pussy.

btw, if the nipplegate happened this year or last year, she would own TikTok and rule Spotify!

A lot of people who claim to be fans of Janet online seem to only care about her when it’s time to bitch about Justin Timberlake. They don’t try to support her by streaming her music.

R40 No she would not. Nobody wants to see her old tit. It looked deflated and saggy 18 years ago. Quel Horreur.

Beyonce isn't even a streaming force either, her numbers are miserable especially since she just dropped an album.

Beyonce is propped up by the media, which is 100% up her butt.

J.lo must get less than 2 million streams per day, humiliating.

Also shows how fake the media is, jlow can't even hit 5 million daily streams with spotify and YouTube combined. That's embarrassing for someone so popular according to the media.

Her career coincided with the MTV music video era. People wanted Michael and Janet was as close as they could end. That era ended and so did her career.

J.Lo keeps herself in the public eye through many histrionic actions. One doesn't need to have high streams of one's shitty music.

R48 True but her popularity is an illusion by the media.

I've always considered her as much an actress as a singer. Janet just has (the remnants of) one career.

J Lo is old but at the height of her fame she was famous for being an entertainer and glamazon. Nobody has ever been deluded that she's a great pop star. She was a sex symbol for YEARS.

She has no famous songs. Most people cannot name even 3 Janet Jackson songs.

JJ sucks ass.

What's her most streamed interlude?

[quote] over 100 million records sales

Another Jabba lie that will never take root.

My favorite JJ song is Love Will Never Do Without You, but I rarely ever hear her music played anywhere. Yesterday, Love Will Never Do came on the 90s station on SiriusXM and I actually turned it off after a minute- it really has not held up. I know crap like Nasty and Escapade would never hold up, but I had hoped at least that one would. Facts are facts- her music is incredibly dated in the worst way.

I remember the fabulous Centipede vividly. The sister's one and done hit. Sad for for Janet - I have vague memories of Rhythm Nation.

[quote]My favorite JJ song is Love Will Never Do Without You, but I rarely ever hear her music played anywhere. Yesterday, Love Will Never Do came on the 90s station on SiriusXM and I actually turned it off after a minute- it really has not held up.

That whole song sounds weird -- also not in a good way -- that weird swooping new jack swing sound effect like on all her songs is present, of course. But the whole vocal mixing sounds off. Is that even her singing on the track? Is it even a woman? It's like the vocals are distorted in some way.

Amazingly Whitney was able to manage a hit from beyond the grave a few years ago just by having Kygo remove all that new jack swing garbage from Higher Love and letting her voice shine through. No chance of that happening to Janet and us getting up to hear her tiny, tinny voice.

R52 Exactly. She doesn't have a Billie Jean, Bohemian Rhapsody, I Will Always Love You level signature song that everyone of all ages knows.

There’s a whole “ick” factor to Janet due to her wacko family, her pedo brother, the endless plastic surgeries, the massive weight fluctuations, that period where she wore a burka, the kids who don’t exist. People don’t want to get invested in it.

[quote] There’s a whole “ick” factor to Janet due to her wacko family, her pedo brother, the endless plastic surgeries, the massive weight fluctuations, that period where she wore a burka, the kids who don’t exist. People don’t want to get invested in it.

Whenever she tries to pass herself off as a strong, liberated woman it never really comes off.

There's a kinda natural diva quality that Beyonce and Madonna both have. Janet always seems like she's faking it.

R59 The closest thing she has is Nasty Boys and while it is fun to dance to, it isn’t really singable.

Yeah r59, Janet's career won't be complete with one of those dreck mega-hits like I Will Always Love You 🙄

r58 New Jack Swing was hot in the early 90s, "Nasty" was one one of the first songs in the 80s that had new jack swing elements. It sounds like you just have pedestrian tastes in music.

That "swooping" sound you are referring to is not present in all her songs either, stop making things up. Jimmy Jam used it in Control and later Rhythm Nation to establish some continuity between the two albums.

[quote]If you listen to the beginning of “Nasty,” underneath the drums on that song, there is this wind sound. That same sound is in some of the drums at the beginning of “Miss You Much.” In a subliminal way, I thought it was great way to bridge Control to Rhythm Nation 1814 and not look back. The Mirage keyboard was the only one that got used from the Control album. The Mirage sound was also in “Escapade” and “Love Will Never Do (Without You).”

Janbot has arrived!

[quote]Janet's career won't be complete with one of those dreck mega-hits like I Will Always Love You

Janet has plenty of dreck -- just no mega-hits.

Fat gorilla Jabba has oozed onto the scene. We could smell it before we even saw it.

Because it’s not 1997. I know that’s hard for DataLounge to understand!

The "mega hit" critique is not very convincing.

People today turn off "I Will Always Love You" and listen to Whitney's other (and better hits).

She is a has-been.

Have been listening to her Design of a Decade album which is basically Rhythm Nation and a few songs from her Control album. Her songs are great, some of the best of that decade. It's not that the songs don't wear well, her voice doesn't wear well. It was all right when we all watched the videos but long term, without the visuals, you need to be able to enjoy the music. Her voice doesn't ruin anything but it's so insubstantial that it leaves a crucial element missing in the song.

Would love to hear a better "artist" get a shot at those songs because as pop songs they are great.

People like songs they can sing along to. They can't do that if they don't understand the words because of whisper coos and mumble-singing.

Yeah, it’s fair to say that Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis’ genius would have been better served artistically by a more talented vocalist. However, the Jackson name drove sales and Janet was a talented performer; she was the optimal choice to make them the most money.

I loved Let the Music Play when I was a kid.

Janet's 2019 Vegas residency delighted her fans. The full concert includes 43 songs and interludes.

The "Rhythm Nation" album is highlighted, with much of the original choreography.

Looks like you all are forgetting how many tours Janet has cancelled on her fans. She's not reliable, she has let them down numerous times and I don't know that all of them got refunded.

Her fans abandoned her because she has not shown up for them in many years. She has done nothing to keep their loyalty, so they don't listen.

I enjoy Sondra Prill's Nasty.

SHE JUSTA FAT COW 2 HIT WONDER....

You jest, R75, but I actually thought Sondra's approach to the song made more sense than Janet's: it needed toughness and that was something Janet has just never been able to convey vocally. Of course, Sondra went too far in that direction. The spoken break is scary!

R73 She's a great dancer, and I'm sure that was a good show. I really wish she wouldn't do that weird fake baby voice. It's makes her seem just as psycho as Madonna.

Not a jest. I really DO enjoy Sondra's interpretation.

What happened to all the coupons to Baja Fresh?

Sondra Pill is an outsider artist.

[quote] Janet's 2019 Vegas residency delighted her fans.

The 87 or so who showed up throughout the entire run.

R81 I wish we could find her now

To quote Father Ted (in reference to UHT milk), “there’s not much demand for it, because it’s shite”.

I still can’t believe she entitled an interlude ‘Bathroom Break’

R73, you also couldn't beat the price at a 4 pack of tickets for $19.99.

[quote]Her fans abandoned her because she has not shown up for them in many years. She has done nothing to keep their loyalty, so they don't listen.

To be fair, Janet's fans might not turn up for shows because Janet doesn't change the choreography, barely changes the setlists, and the vocals she uses aren't updated... they're the same recordings she used 30 years ago. So if you've seen a show 30 years ago... it'll be the same exact show now (if she shows).

20th century pop stars do horribly on Spotify. The sole exceptions are Mariah and Michael. The former is due to her Christmas material.

To give an idea of how bad Janet's streams are--LOUIS ARMSTRONG has more streams than her. Consider how humiliating that is.

89 how stupid are you?

R90, your comment doesn't make any sense.I realize these numbers may hurt your feelings but that doesn't make them invalid. Louis has 2 billion streams, 2.3 including collaborations. Janet has 1.256 billion, 1.437 including collaborations.

Janet Jackon's team negotiated a much more lucrative deal with Spotify; Spotify in response has shadowbanned JJ by leaving her off of playlists and de-emphasizing her in the algorithm. JJ's team has been in litigation with Spotify about this for almost a decade.

No r89 you referenced Louis Armstrong in comparison to Janet. It's idiotic to me.

If you had said "Can you believe Milli Vanilli gets more streams than Janet" that would be embarrassing for her.

R93, I don't think you really understand what I'm getting at. Louis Armstrong never had ANYWHERE near the success Janet did. His peak was decades before Janet was even born. He was a jazz artist, he wasn't even from the rock era. And yet, he oustreams her by a significant margin. That is embarassing no matter how you try to frame it. Janet was last relevant in 2005, like 4 decades after Louis had his last notable hit. SADE has more streams than Janet. Solo John Lennon outstreams her. Cher outsreams her. Supertramp outstreams her. The Jackson 5 outstream her. Alanis Morissette outstreams her. I hope this tells you how pitiful her streams are. None of the people mentioned in this post had the same level of success Janet did.

Janet is mostly R&B. Madonna and Whitney are pop. Aretha and Etta made pop too. Nina made jazz which is big worldwide. Contemporary R&B is supported by a smaller group of people than mainstream pop is. Same reason Rihanna is bigger worldwide than Beyonce, she makes pop music. Beyonce makes mostly R&B.

Jazz isn't big by any stretch of the imagination. I love it but it's not 1935 anymore. Jazz is on the same level of classical in terms of global popularity.

R88 That's completely untrue

Beyonce 48 million Michael Jackson 37 million Britney 36 million Mariah 28 million Madonna 20 million Xtina 18 million etc.

Randomly Elton John beats them all with over 50 million

Feel Spotify is for sure fucking with her for Janet's numbers to be this low

I think there was some self-sabotage on Janet's part. She could have promoted her music better and she waited until just now to start re-uploading music videos and promoting her older music. She spent nearly half-a-decade as a recluse, she came out of retirement to release a new album but canceled her tour because she got knocked up by her Muslim baby daddy. Then spent another half-decade as a recluse. Just now she wants to rerelease her music and promote her stuff. So you have from 2008 to 2014, no new music, only one new song for a Tyler Perry movie. Then from 2016 to 2021, no new anything. Then 2022, she wants the world to remember she exists again.

So many bullshit excuses pouring from Jabba's ass. None of them hold water.

And I'm tired of people blaming the SuperBowl. It absolutely hurt her Damita Jo album that was destined to be another hit for her. But by 20 YO, that blacklist had passed. Discipline definitely had minor hits like "Feedback" and she was on TRL and 106 & Park promoting it, so that was a sign of a promising turn. She simply waited too long between albums and she was aging out of being a sex kitten. Unbreakable was a great comeback for her, more mature sound, "No Sleep" was very modern and got some attention. But she again took a super long break and got forgotten again.

Elton is not surprising. Neither is Beyonce. Both keep themselves relevant and have strong fanbases. I really doubt Britney would be higher than Mariah or Madonna without the #FreeBritney movement though. Janet's fanbase is very small and made up of R&B-heads.

R97, those aren't streams, those are "monthly listeners" which is a BS number TBH. That number ebbs and flows with various trends. Beyonce and Britney are not really 90s divas at all. Britney debuted in 1999 and Beyonce;'s solo career kicked off in 2003. Mariah only has good streaming numbers on spotify thanks to her Christmas material (even without AIWFC, those numebrs add up to a lot). Madonna doesn't have good streaming numbers. Christina is also not really a 90s diva either and and if you subtract Say Something from her numbers, her numbers are actually even worse than Madonna's. Elton John isn't really pop.

R100, you see this same kind of bullshit from Madonna fans too. Spotify is sexist! Madonna's hits are all spread out over decades! Bla Bla Bla. Face it--the public doesn't care about these relics.

R103 A lot of pop stans can't get with the times and are delusional. Like Beyonce stans can't admit Beyonce hasn't had great sales since "I Am Sasha Fierce" and blame anyone who critiques Bey as a "racist" and "misogynist." Her "Renaissance" album didn't perform well, she is aging out and the public is tired of her huge ego just like they got sick of Madonna.

R104, stans of any artist are always ridiculous but pop stans, especially female diva ones are the worst. Always. They have a hard time accepting basic facts and they always use emotions to argue otherwise. Beyone fans should note that Taylor's album has ALREADY oustreamed Beyonce's album and Beyonce's has been out for months. That SHOULD tell them that Taylor is much more popular than her but they will find some way to blame this on white supremacy or something

R105 More importantly they ignore that other Black female artists have been doing great like SZA and Doja Cat. Rihanna's recent song was huge. Beyhive just hates other women especially Black women. Also Drake who is biracial and The Weeknd who is Black are some of the most streamed artists in the world. The fact is Beyonce has simply aged out and her music does not speak to Gen Z. She is strictly a Millennial icon like Timberlake, Britney, Gaga and Nicki are. Taylor Swift and Rihanna managed to appeal more to the Z crowd for many reasons.

[quote]He was a jazz artist, he wasn't even from the rock era. A

Louis Armstrong was one of the greatest of jazz artists. He also had crossover success in movies and, especially, on television. Janet Jackson was a whisper-coo mediocrity. To say that she had greater success than Armstrong, to even compare the two of them at all, is idiotic.

[quote] He also had crossover success in movies and, especially, on television.

So did Janet! And again. Her success was decades after his. Like Madonna, she was propped up by MTV which was broadcast globally. Janet should have more streams than him considering that she sold more and her popularity was much more recent. But she doesn't.

I think Jam & Lewis were masters of making music for specific artists. All of their production is different for each person. Unlike Stock-Aitken-Waterman or Max Martin who used the same sound for everyone and had to depend more on the artist's input for any type of distinctive. Jam & Lewis knew how to already create that sound for each person. They produced for Janet, Usher, Johnny Gill, New Edition, Michael Jackson and Jordan Knight and even gave them some of their best albums. I really doubt "When I Think Of You" and "Rhythm Nation" could have worked with Pebbles, Vanity, Paula Abdul, Karyn White, Madonna, etc.

I'll always love Rhythm Nation choreo. But the plain truth is that Janet's songs didn't age well and it's not like she can carry it with vocals or personality. She rode MJ's superstardom into her own career, so I don't think he can be blamed for tanking it. Especially since his songs are STILL famous despite him being a pedo.

Janet's songs just sound like generic 80s pop. The others with currently streaming songs all have redeeming characteristics that retain their popularity.

.janet and The Velvet Rope influenced a lot of modern-day R&B including neo-soul and Alternative R&B. So music-heads into R&B and hip-hop definitely consider her a huge influence. Plus Aaliyah, Mya, J. Lo, Britney, Justin Timberlake, Ashanti and Ciara were all clearly Janet clones. She's not as big as Mike, Madge or Nippy but she had an impact.

"Ariana Grande(6) and Drake(11) are the artists with the most days garnering more than 10 million unique listeners in Spotify HISTORY."

Unique listeners tell the REAL story. That eliminates all the fanbases mass streaming, like Taylor Swift's. Drake and Ariana Grande have the largest amount of people around the world listening to them, and their reach is massive.

The total number of unique listeners is more impressive than how many times a fanbase can stream a song over and over again.

Janet did not have crossover success in film and television. She started as a supporting sitcom actress and took roles where she could get them, always supporting and never anything built around her. When she finally hit pop stardom (thanks to her brother being super slow to get out the follow up to Thriller) after several flop tries, they put her in a movie here and there (seven years later) but even if she was in a film or two that made some money, it was again always in support. You could not say the movie did well because Janet Jackson fans went to see it.

Janet didn’t get knocked up for kid #2. She bought and egg and had it fertilized and implanted. It’s worth mentioning because she did this while pretending to intend to tour. The possible conclusions are that she was never going to do that tour OR she changed her mind and decided to schedule the pregnancy to cover her ass.

Honestly that whole fiasco is confusing. She married a younger guy who was from a wealthy Qatari family and converted to Islam to marry him. She likely did use medical intervention to carry that child considering she was near or postmenopausal. Then she split from her husband and kept the baby and moved to London. I noticed she doesn't seem to talk or be shown with the other Jacksons anymore. Her ex hubby must have left her some good money. My theory is The Jacksons used up all her musical royalties and Janet was supporting them after Michael stopped making music. So she bearded for a gay Arab prince and got a sweet payout.

She was a fad and is now completely forgotten.

R115

That whole relationship with Wissam [italic]was[/italic] really strange. I still haven't been able to work out what was even happening. He was attractive though (but not my type).

[quote]Janet didn’t get knocked up for kid #2. She bought and egg and had it fertilized and implanted.

She faked that pregnancy and hired a surrogate.

Janet would take years off and disappear and become a recluse every time she gained 100 pounds… which was often.

Why would Janet try to get pregnant at fifty? Why would a man try to beard with a fifty year old woman? Why would an Arab monarchy want Janet Jackson as a bride? Why would someone try to disguise their surrogacy by pretending a fifty year old woman was pregnant? Why would a billionaire actually be attracted to a fifty year old Janet?

So many questions.

Unsellable (2015)

(Un)disciplined (2008)

20 Copies Sold (2006)

Damita Ho (2004)

Flop for You (2001)

The Velvet Colonic (1997)

michael's sister. (1993)

Janet Jackson's Rhinoplasty Nation #1814 (1989)

(Producer) Control(led) (1986)

Why is OP greyed out?

R120 Why would a DLer be so information illiterate to think a Qatari business man (cars, McDonald's franchises, etc) is part of any Middle Eastern Royal Family? Every rich person in the Middle East is not a prince.

[quote]Why is OP greyed out?

Because JanBot FF’d the OP from all of its fake accounts.

[quote][R120] Why would a DLer be so information illiterate to think a Qatari business man (cars, McDonald's franchises, etc) is part of any Middle Eastern Royal Family? Every rich person in the Middle East is not a prince.

Someone must've (erroneously) said he was a prince on DL. This is the only place I hear about Janet and I don't keep up with otherwise.

To be honest, DL is the only place I see or hear people talk about Janet Jackson anymore.

The Daily Mail will usually have a few articles on Madonna's antics every week. Nothing on Janet.

[quote] Louis Armstrong was one of the greatest of jazz artists. He also had crossover success in movies and, especially, on television. Janet Jackson was a whisper-coo mediocrity. To say that she had greater success than Armstrong, to even compare the two of them at all, is idiotic.

Again, jazz isn't popular. I love it, but it's not. Janet Jackson had way more success than Louis Armstrong did, that's indisputable. How many records do you think people in the jazz era were selling? Nowhere near the level of post-50s acts. The fact that one of the jazz greats is outstreaming a pop diva who was last releveant 17 years ago (versus 50 or so years for Louis) is embarassing no matter how you try to frame it. Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Celine oustream him. Sade, SUPERTRAMP, Robbie Wiliams and countless other 20th century acts also outstream him. Janet is the only artist from this group that doesn't.

Monthly listeners:

Janet: 5,234,491

JLO: 19,550,752

JLo has plenty of bops that people want to hear and sing along to. Janet, nope.

R129 Meanwhile jlo gets less than 2 million daily streams on spotify. Both are flops hasbeens.

I took those figures from Spotify today. I don't know how many daily streams either get.

Streaming? Lol, who gives a shit? I always find myself having to come here and read a bunch of (most likely) largely white, probably young and definitely moronic assholes who are so uninformed that it’s almost car wreck-levels of pathetic to witness, but I digress. Once again, for all the idiots in the back, Janet Jackson IS and will ALWAYS be a worldwide pop icon, and not Les Moonves, Justin Timberlake nor a bunch of aggrieved queens who are mortified that their fave has lost the plot of relevance and sanity (ahem-Madonna-ahem) will be able to take that away from her. She has been in the business of show since she was a child, before her contemporaries were even a blip on the radar of stardom, and over the decades all the way up to today she STILL sets trends and inspires a generation of performers and fans alike without even trying (unlike Madonna the Desperate). This is a woman who overcame being in the shadow of THE biggest pop star of all time, who also happened to be her brother, to become a multi-platinum selling, award-winning artist of major influence and acclaim. Her albums were genre-spanning blueprints for heralded works from various pop and R&B artists over the years. She is the only female pop and R&B artist of her time to have an album entered into the Library of Congress (the perennially relevant Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814). She is the only one of her family to have an Academy Award nomination and the Jackson with the longest-running Hot 100 #1 hit. She was the first woman to debut a single in the top 10 of the Hot 100, the first to have a #1 single in the 80s/90s/2000s, the first female with five consecutive Billboard 200 #1 albums, she remains the only artist to have seven top 5 Hot 100 hits from a single album, and she is the only black artist to have #1 albums in four consecutive decades. Whether selling out concerts all over the globe, releasing a string of hit albums and singles, serving as the inspiration for just about every pop and R&B artist dominating the charts today (including your faves), or signing not one but two record-breaking, multi-million dollar album deals in one decade, Janet was making power moves way before garnering a #1 single or album was as easy as tapping the screen on a smart phone to purchase music. Her legendary videos set and made trends that are still seen in the videos of today’s brightest stars. Her concerts inspired everyone from Britney (an unabashed Janet clone) to Rihanna to Beyoncé, Jennifer Lopez, Ciara and a host of other artists, male and female. Her star power will always be undeniably etched in stone, and to even pretend that this unmitigated fact is up for debate is pointless. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame-er, actress, Grammy-winning singer, dancer, author, philanthropist, business woman, and forever icon. Just suck it up, breathe it in and deal with it. Janet Jackson is a living legend, and arguably the only sane one we have left who came to prominence in the ‘80s.

That wall of text is chunkier than Janet in a burka.

R133 I like Janet, but you have diarrhea of the keyboard

[quote]Janet Jackson had way more success than Louis Armstrong did, that's indisputable.

You're full of shit, and that's indisputable, but it's pointless to argue with someone who is willfully ignorant. People are still listening to Armstrong more than 50 years after his death. How many people do you imagine will be listening to Janet whisper-cooing in the year 2072?

R133 is a READ.

The Queen

Amazing how she was so big in the early '90s and is now barely a footnote.

I'm being serious.

Her music really hasn't aged well.

[quote]Janet's songs just sound like generic 80s pop. The others with currently streaming songs all have redeeming characteristics that retain their popularity.

r110 I totally disagree. Jam & Lewis have credited Control's success to it NOT sounding like generic 80s pop music at the time. They said 80s pop was dominated by power-ballads when Janet came to them. Control was a total 180 from that. And furthermore Janet's body of work lasted well beyond the 80s, so why we are only talking about that time period Im unsure.

The "redeeming characteristic" that those other 80s artists have is that they are DEAD. Like I said before, once the artist dies it generates interest in their music solely because of their death and corresponding sad story of their demise. Aaliyah is a great example. Music was lukewarm until she died but gained a cult following after her untimely death and is still going strong 20 years on.

[quote]Amazing how she was so big in the early '90s and is now barely a footnote.

Oh she’s still “so big”.

R142 Janet Jackson walks into a KFC and whispers "Gimme a bucket of chicken" and the employee says "What size?" and Janet Jackson whispers "The one on the roof".

Timbaland was clearly influenced by both Prince and Jam & Lewis. If you listen to his work with Ginuwine, Aaliyah, Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake.

Janet was a Prince fan and wanted to work with him. But instead got to work with his former bandmates Jam & Lewis and they made Control which was groundbreaking at it's time. A lot of modern day pop producers were influenced by that one album for it's innovation.

R144 Prince collaborated with Madonna but refused Janet because he thought she was talentless.

I think All For You is also a hugely underrated Janet album to this day. IMO its the most sonically innovative after Rhythm Nation but is overlooked in her body of work because the singles her label chose to promote and 9/11 etc. White-gurl pop ruled at that time, Janet was in her mid 30s and could've easily been written off but that album was super fresh and didnt sound like anything else out. I can still play it from start to finish.

r145 Prince was a little hating ass bitch and probably wanted to BE Janet. He didn't like that Janet had become a phenomenon because of Jimmy and Terry is more like it.

R136, Jesus Christ, are you dim? I'm actually a Louis Armstrong fan! You are totally missing the point entirely. Yes dear, Janet Jackson had far more success than Louis Armstrong did. Janet has sold something like 75 million records around the world. Do you think Louis sold anywhere near as much? My point was that Janet's streaming numbers SHOULD be higher considering how often she's tweeted about and how recently she was popular. But she's not. Obviously Louis' music stands the test of time more than hers does. That's irrelevant to my point.

Prince didn't want anything to do with The Jacksons. He didn't like Michael who he found corny. Also he dated La Toya and thought she was an uptight church girl. Yes, he was mad that his former bandmates worked with Janet. I don't think he had anything against her personally, her sound was unique enough. He was really annoyed at Justin Timberlake though for his more blatant copying.

Prince liked Madonna and Whitney who were bigger than he was. So I doubt it was jealousy of Mike and Janet but more he just didn't care for that family which they were a toxic clan.

R149, I love Prince on the idea of collaborating on MJ's Bad song--"Your butt is mine? Who is singing that to who? Because it sure as hell isn't gonna be me!". Something to that effect.

Save your rants for someone else, R148. I'm finished arguing with a profoundly stupid person inexplicably obsessed with a mediocre but briefly successful performer.

Revealing her true talent...

[quote]Revealing her true talent...

That's not fair! It was a wardrobe malfunction, as that slo-mo video clearly proves!

R153 used to be suicidal given his account history, and probably still is.

Her reaction is just everything…all so outrageously staged, with her little detachable boob window and the strategically placed nipple clamp (why, surely everyone has detachable boob windows and nipple clamps??). I’m still incredibly embarrassed for her. Whatever she was thinking I do not know. If you’re going to do stunts like that, at least have a backbone and OWN them instead of insulting everyone’s intelligence by claiming it was an “accident”.

^Janet always wore nipple rings back then. She also had a septum and a clit ring. What’s your point?

Her acting is so bad. Her “shock” at her detachable outfit being ripped off is so fake it’s laughable.

It was staged and poor judgment on Janet's part. That was a VMA or BET Award stunt not something to do on national TV when little kids and Karens are watching. You do that shit on cable TV where the FCC isn't moderating things. The backlash was still ridiculous and overblown though.

r156 we had an exhaustingly long thread about Nipplegate when the FX documentary came out a year ago.

Im a Janet fan but my takeaway was that Janet waited too long to issue her video apology, even for the pre-social media era. Had she responded the night of the incident, I think it would've mitigated a ton of the damage. She waited almost two days and by then public opinion had been shaped. Now she has passed that torch onto Will Smith.

Looking back it was also such a weird period in America. Justin Timberlake was a hugely overrated pop star at the time; its almost laughable now that he was the big surprise guest at Superbowl halftime. I also agree that it was used by conservative media to distract from the awful Iraq War which was in full swing in 2004.

Also Janet could have made a concept album reflecting on the whole scandal and tied into misogyny, racism and sex negativity. Something Madonna or Beyonce would do. She would have needed a different producer than Jermaine Dupri who did a lot of damage to her career by changing her sound drastically and alienating a lot of her fans. That folk sound she was experimenting with would have been perfect too. She just made generic R&B with 20 YO. Discipline was better and more in tune with trends but I think the failure of Damita Jo (not her fault) and 20 YO (her fault) did a lot to stall her career.

[quote] but I think the fact that she had very little talent and a whispercoo that people were over 5 years before did a lot to stall her career.

Fixed that for you, dear. No charge.

Fags like R162 are so tiresome.

Jabba, are they late with your gorilla chow?

[quote]Whatever she was thinking I do not know.

Madonna kissed Britney and Christina Aguilera onstage at an awards show a month earlier and got a lot of publicity. Janet, at that point in her career, felt the need to prove she was still sexy. A 'wardobe malfunction' would make her the most talked about woman on Earth and she would have the plausible deniability of claiming it was an accident. But the Superbowl isn't an awards show. She didn't realize the backlash she would get.

And no one told her just how disgustingly ugly her saggy titty was.

She totally misread the country. There was an ugly war going on, people were feeling patriotic, and George Bush conservatism was all the rage. Nobody was in the mood for nudity during a network-TV broadcast.

^You mean racist prudes from middle America who probably have skeletons that would make the lowest of the depraved blush were upset that they had to witness a fraction of a second of a black woman’s nipple-shielded breast. Oh, the horror! It wasn’t enough that Michael Powell and Justin Timberwimp himself both later publicly apologized for the ridiculous outrage, but that Repugs on Capitol Hill were so incensed that one dyke-ish female senator was nearly in tears while chastising the president of CBS just further showed what a shithole country this truly is.

R168, all of that was predictable, but Janet was too dumb to realize it. She was desperate to show off that saggy tit nobody wanted to see.

^Your irrational grudge for a woman who probably — no, definitely, has shoes in her closet that cost more than what you have in your entire bank account, the moral of the story here is that the half second flash of the breast only served to pull the blanket off of just how truly awful, racist and sexist this country is.

[quote]Your irrational grudge for a woman who probably — no, definitely, has shoes in her closet that cost more than what you have in your entire bank account

Jesus. How fucking shallow are you? That certainly explains your devotion to a has-been.

[quote]She was desperate

Desperate? 😂 I laugh whenever I hear some poor deluded stooge utter that word in relation to the SB incident. Janet had just come off her fifth consecutive #1 album that gave her her biggest first week sales ever, was recently declared MTV’s first official Icon, had the longest-running Hot 100 #1 single of 2001 that netted her another Grammy and set long-held records at radio, and was making good traction at radio with her new (at the time) single. And she was asked to headline the SB Halftime show. So no, desperate is not the correct word to use in this context.

[quote]Jesus. How fucking shallow are you?

Ahh, so there’s some truth to my assessment.

R172 Many of us here like Janet. You're just arguing just to argue - it's a weird ping pong with you and the other person(s). But really - you're over the top about it.

[quote]You're just arguing just to argue

Nope, I’m merely stating facts.

r167 please don't act like America was full of church going conservatives who thought women should only wear skirts that came down their feet.

Nipplegate occurred in PEAK white-gurl slut era. Paris Hilton had a sex tape out, Britney was dickmatized by Kfed, Lindsay was starting to fall out of clubs with no draws on. No one was clamoring for those hoes to be banished like they did Janet.

[quote]Nipplegate occurred in PEAK white-gurl slut era. Paris Hilton had a sex tape out, Britney was dickmatized by Kfed, Lindsay was starting to fall out of clubs with no draws on. No one was clamoring for those hoes to be banished like they did Janet.

Those hoes weren't pulling their antics in the middle of a network TV broadcast aimed at Middle America. But Janet tried it.

There was no convincing narrative for why Justin

1) accidentally pulled off the tit plate or whatever it was

2) deliberately pulled off the tit plate or whatever it was

neither scenario made for a good story.

It was just STUPID GROSS AND DESPERATE

[quote]of a network TV broadcast aimed at Middle America

I’m sorry, but the Super Bowl halftime show is “aimed” at anyone who wants to watch it, and that includes people who live on the coasts. Because the breast in question happened to belong to a black woman was the REAL issue for the uptight Karens and Kevins who either wish they were Janet or wanted to fuck her.

R179 Why are you sorry?

Shirley Manson from Garbage wrote their song Sex Is Not The Enemy in response to the ridiculousness of the brouhaha.

[quote][R179] Why are you sorry?

Oh, I’m certainly not. It was just a sarcastic turn of phrase.

The Superbowl and NFL are conservative organizations. The Superbowl is marketed as a "family-oriented" event and plus it's broadcast on national TV in which the conservative FCC moderates the content. Yes, these conservative Americans see human cockfighting as more "wholesome" than nudity. Janet could have been pole-dancing and shaking her ass like J. Lo and Shakira and it would have been fine but her nipple got exposed and the conservatives went crazy.

On the other hand, MTV, VH1 and BET are cable networks and thus not regulated by the FCC. They instead practice self-censorship though in order to not lose advertisers. And the VMAs and BET Awards are targeted to 16-to-34 liberal demographic and always pushed the limits. Janet did that stunt on any of those networks, there would have been no story.

Does anyone remember that time when Jackson put all her garbage and junk online for sale for a few dollars because she was flat broke? So humiliating.

she fetched her a rich saudi.....sad. and her face: stretched and bleached to hell.

Didn't the rich Saudi dump her fat ass and the fake surrogate baby R185? Does she even still have the baby?

Think also about SNL, how many people have been banned for breaking conduct and doing stunts that the producers weren't aware of. It's because its filmed live on national TV and the FCC is up their ass all the time. The Superbowl likely didn't know about Janet's stunt because they would not have approved it.

r187 they didn't know. In the FX documentary they went into great detail about how standards made adjustments to other acts in the Kidd Rock and Nelly prior to the final show, they rehearse and plan it over and over. Janet and her stylist made whatever decision they did very close to the actual show so no one had time to find out.

[quote]Does anyone remember that time when Jackson put all her garbage and junk online for sale for a few dollars because she was flat broke?

But what about those fancy shoes of hers that each cost more than all of our lifetime savings put together?

R176 Britney was actually disliked by conservatives around that time for "corrupting the youth" and former Maryland governor Robert Ehrlich's wife Kendel said she'd shoot Britney if she had the chance. If Madonna, Britney, Paris or Lindsay flashed their nipples at the Superbowl on live national TV they would have gotten massive flack and a blacklisting too. Lindsay actually was blacklisted for her antics by Hollywood. Madonna almost got cancelled in the 90s for her Sex book. Paris was a rich girl, so she wasn't blackballed by anyone but she did fade away after the public got sick of her. I really don't think this was a racial thing here.

EVEN THE SAUDI SAID HER COOTER STUNK.........DATS BAD.

R190, all good points. Also, the reason many of Britney's singles didn't place higher on the singles charts is because of Clear Channel.

(even her bro said her cooter stank......)

[quote]As for just her monthly listeners, Janet must not be on any popular playlists. Mariah right now is being propped up by Christmas playlists.

[quote]Without her Christmas song Mariah is more 10-15 million monthly, and Cyndi would have as many as Janet without those two songs.

A popular Christmas song is guaranteed longevity and income. Mariah was very savvy to do that. That's what people will listen to every single year and you'll get royalties for the rest of your life.

Bing Crosby was a major star and a household name for decades. Oscar-winning actor of very popular films, lots of hit songs. Today, he's only really remembered by the general public for White Christmas.

Sondra Prill has the definitive version of Nasty.

Janet was near 40 when Nipplegate happened. Her career was near its end anyway. This was at a time when it was not common for female celebs to stay in the spotlight into their 40s and 50s like JLo is doing today.

even nip gate not save her from the big slide into da gutter.....

The Superbowl, which is filled with violence and expletives being shouted by coaches and players alike, is a "family oriented" event? Don't make me laugh.

[quote]Does anyone remember that time when Jackson put all her garbage and junk online for sale for a few dollars because she was flat broke?

No, because it never happened. But you tried it.

r194 Yeah, Madonna, Janet, and Whitney should have recorded original Christmas songs.

She hasn't seen that kid since it was 6 months old. If the poster upthread who said she hired a surrogate is correct, she really is its mother by adoption only, as no way no how was her egg used.

To put it into perspective, the single “All For You” went #1 for seven weeks from April - May 2001. The album sold 605,000 copies in its first week and sold 3 million copies. “Someone To Call My Lover” reached #3. “Son of a Gun” kind of flopped at #28.

3 million copies in 2001 wasn’t bubblegum pop numbers on the scale of Eminem or NSYNC or Britney Spears but it was on par with Madonna’s “Music” album in 2000 and Mariah’s “Rainbow” in 1999.

I think the real issue was Jermaine Dupri.

Dupri became head of Virgin’s urban department and a producer said he mishandled “20 Y.O.” after taking over the project.

The album bombing lead to him being fired.

He then went to Island and took Janet with him and he fucked up “Discipline” too.

I don't remember Janet Jackson being a huge deal with people in the early 2000s. Her last big album was the one in the late 90s, and even then she wasn't as popular as she had been a few years before. I think by the early 2000s she was more of an urban thing than a mainstream thing.

Remember when Janet (the hypocrite) talked about how she had class compared to other female singers? Then whipped her nipple-accessorized tit out for the world to see as a publicity stunt?

The hypocrisy is what killed Janet. But she was one of my favorites at one time... very long ago.

Stunning!!!!

!!!

!!!

!!!

R204 “Doesn’t Really Matter” was massive. It spent 3 weeks at #1 in 2000. And then she had “All For You” which spent 7 weeks at #1 in 2001. “Someone To Call My Lover” went to #3 and was also a pretty popular song. It was definitely the last big Janet song.

So she did have a strong start in the 2000’s.

Sorry r208 I remember those songs but I don't remember Janet Jackson still being a big force in mainstream society in the early 2000s, by then she was more of an urban thing. Whites weren't really into her at all by then.

Janet Jackson is so fat, she had to go to Sea World to get baptized.

R207 WHAT THE FUCK DID SHE DO TO HER NOSE?

I think the other thing is she got too sexual.

Madonna might be whorish image wise but her albums in 2000’s are tame.

Janet’s music got extremely sexual. It was like listening to a Lil’ Kim album.

40 year old Moms who grew up with Janet aren’t going to buy her albums and play it in the car with their kids listening to Janet sing about her pussy for an hour.

I think that’s why Madonna lasted a little bit longer.

Though she had a hit with All for You, she just didn't feel like a 'hot' thing at the time. There were suddenly lots of younger singers who felt more 'it'.

Madonna did her Sex thing in the early '90s; by the late '90s she was doing her most mature work (RoL, Music). She had actually grown as artist (before regressing after her divorce). Janet went in the other direction: her early work was more serious, her later work was all derivative, giggling sex songs.

[quote]Bing Crosby was a major star and a household name for decades. Oscar-winning actor of very popular films, lots of hit songs. Today, he's only really remembered by the general public for White Christmas.

Which is more than Janet Jackson will be remembered for when she's gone for as long as Bing has been gone. Fans of old movies, and there are a lot of them, also remember Bing for his movies, including "White Christmas" and "Holiday Inn," which both have had recent stage adaptations. What Janet Jackson movies will people be talking about in 70 years?

Madonna only did Ray of light and went the whole kabala image rehabilitation because everyone was asking for her head after the sex book, she was getting blackballed, her career would have ended in the 90s otherwise. Might have been not such a bad idea with looking what's become of her...

And Ray of Light was some of her best work.

Janet's attempt to brush off the Superbowl -- 20YO -- was awful.

[quote] Madonna only did Ray of light and went the whole kabala image rehabilitation because everyone was asking for her head after the sex book, she was getting blackballed, her career would have ended in the 90s otherwise.

Except that Ray of Light came WAY AFTER the Sex book, after she'd had her biggest #1 song ever (Take a Bow), a hit film and won a Golden Globe, so nope.

Thanks for that video link R195. I had no idea Janet was such a good vocalist. She certainly kept that hidden.

It's weird to think songs like Black Cat were such big hits. They never put up on Spotify's '80s playlists like How Will I Know, Like A Virgin, etc...

R207 That one's photoshopped - this is the real one

R204 repeats the same thing in every Janet thread and it’s always a verifiable lie. All For You the biggest thing about 2001. The single set records at radio that took ten years to be beaten (by Gaga’s Born This Way) and the album gave Janet the biggest first week sales of her career. She caused pandemonium when she showed up at TRL that year.

Madonna was a non-factor in the 90s. She couldn’t even get a #1 album stateside.

The racist faggot who’s always crowing about white people not being into Janet in the 2000s obviously never attended one of her concerts, because the audiences were then, and still are, a veritable rainbow of colors, including a massive amount of white people. She didn’t get her biggest first week album sales in 2001 from the black community alone. She also has a huge lesbian fanbase. Every time I see her live, there’s always a big lesbian presence at the show.

Madonna’s last hit was when Clinton was still in office, right? That song about bowing to a lonely star or some shit? What is it about that woman and lonely lucky stars anyway?

R222 The biggest of 2001? You sure?

[quote]It's weird to think songs like Black Cat were such big hits

Weird only to AIDS-addled brains like yours. Black Cat was huge, and it even impressed legends in the Metal/Rock genre. Lemmy Kilmister from Motörhead liked it so much that he wanted to remake it with Janet, and Tommy Lee was impressed that she wrote it herself. Rock acts signed and unsigned have been covering the song for decades.

[quote]And Ray of Light was some of her best work

And it paled in comparison to the highly influential critical darling The Velvet Rope, which was released around the same time.

R211 is embarrassingly gullible.

Janet Jackson is so fat, when she hauls ass she makes two trips.

[quote]Though she had a hit with All for You, she just didn't feel like a 'hot' thing at the time. There were suddenly lots of younger singers who felt more 'it'.

Lol at your revisionist history. Janet was still queen at the time. A quote from the NY Post…

[italic]On Janet Jackson’s latest disc, All for You – the follow-up to her 1997 hit disc, The Velvet Rope – the wispy-voiced singer is sailing uncharted waters for female pop, acting flirty, talking dirty and leaving the blond chicks in the dust... And that's the beauty of this album and Jackson as an artist – there is a clear willingness to experiment. — Dan Aquilante, New York Post[/italic]

[quote]Remember when Janet talked about how she had class compared to other female singers?

She does, and it couldn’t be more apparent than these days.

There's a reason she always lip syncs her shows. This will make you ears bleed. She's a fraud.

The REAL fraud

^ I mostly can't believe people went to a Janet concert expecting her to sing live

[quote] And it paled in comparison to the highly influential critical darling The Velvet Rope, which was released around the same time.

Velvet Rope is great but you don't have to lie. Ray of Light is far more acclaimed than The Velvet Rope to this day. Velvet Rope is the 1,128th most acclaimed album of all time. ROL is 425th. Pretty substantial difference there.

[quote]Velvet Rope is great but you don't have to lie.

No, they do. Only way to maintain the Janet is more celebrated, important, talented, etc. than Madonna.

No, Janet was pretty much cooled off popularity-wise by the early 2000s. Nobody in the mainstream was really checking for her. She got another hit but she wasn't a huge thing anymore. This was before the Superbowl fiasco.

One has to wonder why the mentally ill, homophobic gorilla Jabba keeps coming in here and getting its ass handed to it with facts but refuses to see the truth. What's wrong with you, Jabba, really? Why can't you accept that Janet was a star for a few years, but is solidly in the middle of the pack in terms of sales and concert grosses (well, a little lower in concert grosses), had her time on the chart, and now no one gives a shit?

[quote]She is less popular on Spotify than Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Nina Simone.

Spotify users have good taste. Who knew?

[quote]Weird only to AIDS-addled brains like yours.

You’re an absolute piece of garbage.

R243, it's the Ancient White F*** troll. They always post stuff like that. I'm not sure how they haven't been banned yet. People on here have been "suspended" for much less.

I assumed that’s who it was, R244. Is AWF the same troll as Janbot?

R245, yup. They are the same. People used to think was the AWF/Janbot troll but no, AWF and Janbot are one (other) person.

The AWF troll is vile, he was outed as a middle-aged Canadian white man awhile back.

This is when I truly lost all respect for Turnip... I mean Janet and her desperate need to satisfy her ugly little man.

R247, are you fucking kidding me!? They're a white Canadian dude?

I actually created a mock album cover for a blog I was doing back then.

r249 it was in the Shania Twain thread from a few months ago. The stupid fuck forgot to switch accounts when he posted that he worked on the Toronto production of Sunset Boulevard starring Diahann Carroll. A little internet sleuthing showed that this production was in 1994/1995, which would make the AWF troll in his late 40s at the absolute youngest, though he's probably in his 50s or even 60s. A poster found the Playbill and DL's detectives narrowed him down to a handful of suspects. All of them white guys.

He's a total nutcase and just vile.

R251, that's just sad. I almost feel sorry for them.

I think Janbot/AWF is non-white but it’s almost incidental because he’s devastatingly Canadian and it overwhelms everything else. The obsession with Janet makes sense in that context. They don’t aim high up there.

r253 there were only white guys in that Playbill. He's cosplaying as a POC. He's totally white. You can tell he's Canadian from his language. His attempt at a black American vernacular is totally ridiculous if you are American (of any race). Even the most lily-white American can tell an authentic black American vernacular, it's very difficult for people from other countries to successfully do it.

Hard to believe she signed a contract for 80 million dollars in 1996.

I didn’t know that we’d doxed him, r254. I buy what you’re selling; I agree his AAVE was poor but I attributed that to his being Canadian as well.

R218 Still true, she had to do something because ppl were angry over the sex book.

Janbot here. I have no clue who AWF or AWG or whoever the fuck is, but it’s not me. Nice try, though.

[quote]Velvet Rope is great

Precisely. And I’m not sure what that non-secure ghetto ass generic site is that you linked at R238, but it’s obviously not official and is suspect at best. But you keep dreamin’, hon.

r258 how's the weather in Canada?

"Stay pressed" That sounds moronic.

I do love a bunch of Janet songs, though, for real. I think This Time is phenomenal.

Sorry but even with all her success in the past she's completely forgotten. Try to ask anyone under 25 to name a song from her....yikes.

The worst thing is if you asked someone under twenty-five who Janet Jackson was those who responded that they'd heard of her would probably say, 'Michael's sister'.

[quote]Hard to believe she signed a contract for 80 million dollars in 1996.

That was the second of her two landmark record deals during the ‘90s, dear. Those are the kinds of deals performers get when they release a string of successful #1 albums, consecutively. Back to back. People like Richard Branson join bidding wars to sign you, and sweeten the deal by taking you up on his hot air balloon.

[italic]”We decided to offer Janet the largest amount of money ever offered to any signer. On top of this, we decided to break all the rules of the record industry: rather than tying her down for a number of future albums, Virgin would offer her a contact for just one album. We wanted to blow away the competition, and felt confident that once Janet started working with Virgin she wouldn’t want to go anywhere else.” — Richard Branson[/italic]

[quote]Sorry but even with all her success in the past she's completely forgotten.

Mm-hm yeah sure.

Because she's awful.

Icon

Regal beauty

My Gen Z nieces and nephews barely even know who Madonna is, and she was the biggest female pop star in the world for many years. They have no clue about Janet Jackson.

^^This never happened.

Yup it did r270.

BTW you sound absolutely nothing like an urban black American male, FYI

I'm with R270 on this, R269. You're trying to tell us you initiated a conversation with your nieces and nephews, and asked them if they knew of Madonna and Janet Jackson? Why? To prove a point on this thread?

Sounds made up to me. I don't really have 'a dog in this race,' as they say, but it is fun watching this thread continuously drag out for no real reason.

Carry on!

[quote]Regal beauty

Regal beagle.

Don't you talk to your younger family members about pop culture? It's pretty normal in families. My nieces and nephews mentioned they were only vaguely aware of Madonna, so I asked them about other 80s artists. They don't really know much. Gen Z is different from other generations, they don't have a huge reference level for things before they were born.

Of course, I forget that many DLers are estranged from their families and have no contact with them. Countless stories on here.

Agree with R269

Go to 4:25 of this video.

DO COLLEGE KIDS KNOW 80s MUSIC?

Janet's score: 0/8 knew the song 2/8 knew the artist.

That video is funny r275. But really, can you blame them? The 80s were 40 years ago. I'm a child of the 80s and if somebody back then sat me down and played me a whole variety of songs from the 40s I would never have been able to identify all the artists. Some, but not all.

Reacting to Madonna. 1st song.

DO COLLEGE KIDS KNOW 80s MUSIC? #11

Janet's 90s albums are excellent and hold up much better than her 80s stuff. Her 80s are dated in a way Thriller or Madonna's best singles are not. I tried to listen to Rhythm Nation and Control recently. I rolled my eyes at the social justice songs on the former and the latter is just really overproduced (as was most pop music from that time). But Janet is really bold and Velvet Rope even more so.

Janet is her best album. New jack swing excesses toned done a little, less preachy. But more focused than the self-indulgent The Velvet Rope or her dumb trend-chasing later albums. The closest she came to being genuinely sexy instead of seeming like she was only singing about sex because she had nothing else to say.

Janet is a genuinely sexy album. And the sampling of Love Child on Do You Want This is excellent.

I think Janet realized Janet was her best album was constantly trying to get back to that. Madonna never got hung up on one album. She kept trying new things.

[quote]Yup it did [R270].

Nice try, but you're clearly lying.

[quote]BTW you sound absolutely nothing like an urban black American male, FYI

Careful hon, your racist horns are showing. What, pray tell, does an "urban black American male" sound like, anyway? A thug who peppers his phrases with the word "Yo?" For YOUR information, not every urban black American male speaks with the kind of diction your bigoted brain assumes they do, just as I'm sure not every white boy from the suburbs inserts the word "dude" into every sentence.

But you tried it.

[quote]I'm with [R270] on this, [R269]. You're trying to tell us you initiated a conversation with your nieces and nephews, and asked them if they knew of Madonna and Janet Jackson? Why? To prove a point on this thread?

LOL, exactly. I can just imagine the "conversation"...

DLer: Hey Becky and Pete, what's you guys' take on music pop culture? Know who Janet Jackson and Madonna are?

Becky: Um...Janet Jackson is that lady who had that song that got memed to death when Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a "Nasty woman," right?

DLer: Mm-hm. And Madonna?

Pete: Isn't she that old chick on Instagram with the fake butt and the bloated face?

We'll make this easy for everyone-

If Jabba says it, it's a lie.

If anyone else says it, it's true.

R285, pressed like the little shitfaced lapdog that she is.

Nice try r283. Your syntax is SO Canadian. You sound nothing like an urban black American. r284. Yes, people do have conversations with their relatives about pop culture. Just because you're mentally ill and have no idea about normal families doesn't make it untrue. You sit around the table and talk about what's going on in their lives, what they're listening to, watching, etc. This is a normal part of family discourse. Pop music is a big part of that. My Gen Z nieces and nephews barely know Madonna, they are clueless about Janet.

[quote]Careful hon, your racist horns are showing. What, pray tell, does an "urban black American male" sound like, anyway?

Well, not at all like you, for starters. You have the syntax of a middle-aged white man.

R265 What is that video supposed to prove exactly? You're delusional as fuck if you think Janet Jackson is in any way relevant in 2022 going on 2023. Nobody gives a fuck about what she did a million years ago she can't even outstream musicians who died in the 70's and composers from the 1700's.

Her music is clearly FORGOTTEN.

The All for You album and era (2001) was truly the the last time she had a career peak. Everything since has seemed derivative, bungled or just plain forgettable. Gen Z were just being born or were babies during that era, so it's not unrealistic that she would have little more than name recognition to them. Someone in this thread mentioned that Gen Z doesn't have much knowledge of popular culture that existed before they were born and that makes sense because unless they go searching on YouTube or scouring Spotify for older music, it's not exactly easy to stumble upon anymore. MTV and VH1 are nothing more than trashy reality TV networks now on the increasingly passé medium of cable television. Same goes for older movies and television shows. There's no exposure to anything that predates what's current and of the moment, unless a random "oldie" is featured in a TV show like Euphoria or Stranger Things and has a fluke resurgence, like Kate Bush's 'Running Up That Hill'.

Janet, Madonna, and Mariah would benefit from leaning into the fact that they're now legacy acts and should encourage the use of their catalog of music as much as possible on social media, streaming television, and in films. It may be the only way for younger people to be exposed to it. At this point, their future relevance depends upon it.

[quote]Yes, people do have conversations with their relatives about pop culture. Just because you're mentally ill and have no idea about normal families doesn't make it untrue. You sit around the table and talk about what's going on in their lives, what they're listening to, watching, etc. This is a normal part of family discourse. Pop music is a big part of that. My Gen Z nieces and nephews barely know Madonna, they are clueless about Janet.

This all but solidifies that you're a fucking liar, and NOT a good one.

[quote]You have the syntax of a middle-aged white man.

I don't know what's funnier, that you are speaking as though you have some irrefutable proof that I'm this person that you say I am (here's a hint: I'm not a middle aged white man nor do I live in Canada), or that you think that I give a shit one way or the other. But keep making a fool of yourself for my amusement. It tickles me.

The Rhythm Nation video is seriously phenomenal. Every kid should see it.

But, the Janet Jackson guy here - you say "pressed" a lot. I never hear people use that word. Maybe I'm old (38, which I know is ANCIENT for a gay guy).

r291 you're nuts. I'll be seeing my nieces and nephews over Thanksgiving and we'll be talking further about current events and pop culture. We have interesting conversations. I'm in my forties and it's fun to hear the perspective that teens/twentysomethings have on the world. I have no problem accepting the fact that the 80s are ancient history to them and many of my cultural references are totally lost on them. It happens as time passes and new generations come in. As I said, kids their age barely know who Madonna is, they sure as fuck have no clue about your precious Janet. Time moves on, even big stars become irrelevant to succeeding generation. That's life. And yeah, you don't sound like a black American whatsoever.

Janet is just as much a slut as Madonna. I think Janet had some dick downs. James DeBarge, Bobby Brown, Johnny Gill, Matthew McConaughey, Justin Timberlake and Rene Elizondo Jr. I think Jermaine Dupri is ugly as fuck and that Qatari guy she was with was gay. The guys in her videos were hot: Taimak, Gary Dourdan, Djimon Housou, Anthony Sabado Jr, Nelly, the guys in the music videos for Anytime, Anyplace, I Want You and All For You. I think Madonna, Janet and Britney had the hottest guys in videos.

R290 Yep to this. And Gen Z isn't really into Britney, Christina, Beyonce and Gaga either. It's just those four are not that old and still have some success but they are mainly Millennial favorites and Millennials are older siblings to Gen Z. Similar to how Gen X were the ones to familiarize Millennials to Madonna, Janet and Mariah. To Gen Z, Madonna, Mariah and Janet are fossils. Gen Z is into artists like Ariana Grande, Harry Styles, Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish and The Weeknd.

R294 Your shitty kids at least better know who Stacy fucking Lattisaw is!!

I disagree with the idea that gen z doesn't listen to older music. They do. They're just not listening to Janet's older music.

Why does there always have to be this pissing war between Madonna and Janet? Some of us who grew up back then loved them both and don't see the incessant need to tear one down to big the other up.

R298 I know they listen to older music but mainstream pop music is typically very dated to an era. That 90s and 2000s teen pop era is very dated to the time and it wasn't created to timeless anyway. Stuff like Aretha Franklin, Frank Sinatra, Whitney Houston and Amy Winehouse actually aged better because they're real singers.

R299, blame Janbot. Before Janbot arrived, there were no pissing contests between Janet and Madonna fans.

R199 - it certainly did happen. A bunch of gifted Ralph Lauren brown furniture and assorted costumes of no historic or artistic value or interest.

R298, I think they do have some knowledge of older music like at R275/R277. But a lot of their knowledge comes from watching movies that used older songs. I was surprised that they knew who Phil Collins was and that they mainly associated him with a Tarzan movie.

Also, it depended on what type of music their parents liked and played around them.

[quote]I'll be seeing my nieces and nephews over Thanksgiving and we'll be talking further about current events and pop culture.

I really feel only Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson and The Beatles transcended generations in terms of being ubiquitous and everyone knowing who they are. Madonna, Janet, Mariah, Prince and others are all very much dated to their time despite their influence and popularity. I'd say Etta James, Billie Holliday, Whitney Houston and Aretha Franklin are female vocal talents that will live on due to their ability to transform music but many may not know them by images alone.

I wouldn't say Elvist transcends. I think he's very much viewed as a kind of hack, someone who benefitted greatly from the repression of black people. And it's true. As far as 20th century music stars that transcend generations, if we are going off of Spotify, they would be The Beatles, Stones, Nirvana, AC/DC, Elton John, Red Hot Chilli Peppers (that one pains me because they suck), MJ, QUEEN (the biggest one of all), Pink Floyd, Metallica, Guns N Roses, etc.

Whether its fair or not, the "stealing from black people" thing really hindered Elvis' appeal to this generation in this current climate. He's more of an iconic name now but I doubt many of Gen Z could name any of his songs.

I'm not an Elvis fan (I like a few songs but who doesn't?) but he did just have a successful biopic that was about introducing him and his music to a younger generation, so maybe not the best example.

Even the biggest stars become irrelevant to younger generations. And Janet Jackson was never as big as Whitney or Madonna, her popularity is practically nonexistent today.

Exactly R309. Nobody even remembers her in 2022. Certainly not younger generations. No record company will give her a contract now because she can't sell music anymore. That's just a cold hard fact - no matter how much Janbot laments about it in her alternate reality which doesn't exist.

End of story.

Janet was more in tune to youth culture and while she introduced trends, it ultimately dated her to the time. I think once Madonna made True Blue that solidified her as major global pop star and reinventing herself and "desexing" with Ray of Light got her more older fans for another string of popular albums but she refused to slow down and went back the oversexed pop tart route. Whitney was the most enduring thanks to her adult contemporary sound (which while cheesy was clean and thus got farther reach) and The Bodyguard soundtrack, it helped she had one of the greatest singing voices of her generation. Madonna refuses to be forgotten and the only reason people talk about her is her desperate antics and horrible plastic surgery. Whitney's music is still heard while you will occasionally hear Madonna or Janet.

Black people in real time were fans of Elvis until that racist fake quote about black people only shining his shoes and buying his records was attributed to him and that Chuck D line in Fight the Power. This article talks about how Elvis was one of the few white artists played on black radio stations in the 50’s and 60’s.

So much delusion in this thread

Black fans of Elvis

R307 I know Ray Charles didn’t care for Elvis and viewed him as a hack, but there were just as many black artists who were fond of him. Darlene Love spoke positively of Elvis and defended him against the cultural appropriation accusations in an interview a few years ago.

Madonna has to resort to desperate antics on Instagram in order to get attention, and it’s to her detriment because she’s consistently dragged for it. I kind of feel bad for her that she feels the need to degrade herself for fame, and it’s particularly cringey because she has those young adopted daughters.

Janet, on the other hand, behaves and carries herself as someone her age and status should. She trends on Twitter by just showing up at an event and, for better or worse, SB Sunday has become #JanetJacksonAppreciationDay for the past few years on social media due to her fanbase as a fuck you to the establishment. Her influence speaks for itself. Kelly Clarkson has covered several Janet songs on her show and has covered “If” in concert.

It's true that Janet is probably happier with her life than Madonna is at the moment. I will give her that even though she isn't as relevant as Madge nor was her career as big.

Nobody's really checking for Janet anymore. It's just her rabid fans.

Agreed R317.

If Madonna is relevant then Donald Trump is thin and mentally stable.

I have never in my life heard a black person say "stay pressed." I don't think I've ever even heard an American, period, use that term. Must be a Canadian thing.

[quote]I have never in my life heard a black person

You could have just left it there and called it a day.

No-one says "stay pressed" except Shartbot R321.

Per the Urban Dictionary:

"pressed" and "stay pressed" were cute about a decade ago. They're intensely dated at this point, like Janet.

Anyhow, for all that she doesn't have any control over her weight, eating, and activity level, I agree JJ's life is overall better than Madonna's. JJ has dysthmia and eating issues, sure, based on her low activity level and appearance, respectively, but also plenty of money and a pretty low key life. Maybe she'll even reconcile with her abandoned daughter one of these days? There's still time.

[quote]"pressed" and "stay pressed" were cute about a decade ago.

*Two decades ago.

Only white twinks stay "stay pressed." They use Black slang from years ago they picked up from RuPaul.

Janet Jackson puts mayonnaise on aspirin.

I kinda feel old white DLers are out of touch. To Black gays, Janet, Whitney, Jody and Prince are icons. Many Black and Latino gays were Madonna fans.

Janet and Madonna are both icons whose music will be forgotten. That's the way pop music goes.

Janet absolutely suffers from disordered eating. I don't think it's funny to mock though. The Jacksons were raised by a self-hating tyrant like Joe who used religion and violence to get his point across. Joe had green eyes and thought he was all that. Mike had deep brown skin and a wide nose and acne and Joe tortured him mentally. Janet was insecure about her weight, her nose and being darker skinned than La Toya. La Toya was sexualized by Joe because she was light-skinned and she also had Joe's big nose too. Mike bullied Janet for her weight too and that fucked her up.

R331, she definitely does. Her weight fluctuates more than Oprah's.

[quote]To Black gays, Janet, Whitney, Jody and Prince are icons.

Everybody knows this. Nobody has said any different. Just that Janet is long gone from mainstream popularity.

Wow just wow 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Maybe Jabba will finally get it through its thick gorilla skull now that it's in red and blue.

R334, I'm surprised Janet's net worth is so low.

Gif at R336 reminds me how a lot of Janet's dancing ability was quick cuts, pyramids, and hairography.

I think it’s weird how Janbot/s can’t discuss their heroine without mentioning Madonna and going into full blown “whataboutism”. It’s pure school yard shit. I’d have thought by a certain age you’d outgrow fangirling a pop star. It’s not a good look.

untalented sow.

The Janet and Vadge threads are always entertaining though. Janet sets off so many haters including Vadgebot. Janbot always does the most and copy and pastes the same essay on every thread. I still think Vadgebot is worse because they invade other threads and bring up Vadge in conversations she has no place in. I don't think Janbot would argue Janet was as big as Michael Jackson or was the most beautiful woman ever. Vadgebot has worse delusions.

[quote] I don't think Janbot would argue Janet was as big as Michael Jackson or was the most beautiful woman ever.

Uh, Janbot constantly claims Janet is more successful than Madonna despite the fact that Madonna sold something like 170 million more records than her. They also claim that Janet is still popular and loved among the younger generation. That's no different than the Vadgebot stans.

R342 That is true. Madonna is the biggest female act and Janet isn't even close. Whitney and Mariah sold more yet people underplay their icon status.

Whitney really gets underplayed. She was bigger than Madonna in so many ways. Madonna just released more music and got the bigger sales over time. But many of Whitney's albums outsold Madonna's at their release and she was huge during The Bodyguard. If Whitney didn't end up a mess and mishandled her career in the late 90s and 2000s, she'd absolutely be the highest selling female artist of all time.

Whitney basically entered semi-retirement after The Bodyguard.

R336 She was so beautiful then. She should have done no more plastic surgery from that point.

R3444, that isn't true actually. If you take things like singles and additional compilation sales into account, Like a Virgin and True Blue sold about 40 million each. That's more than Whitney's first two albums which sold something like 60 million combined. That's globally of course. The Bodyguard is obviously where Whitney destroyed Madonna versus Erotica. And the gap between Madonna and Whitney's sales altogether is about 100 million records. There's no way Whitney would have sold an additional 100 million records in the 90s/00s.

[quote] Whitney and Mariah sold more yet people underplay their icon status.

I don't think this is true honestly. Both are correctly considered icons. The big four females are Madonna, Celine, Mariah and Whitney. I think the one slept on is Celine but that's because her music is the most boring of the four by a mile or ten.

R342 Janbot claims that Janet's streaming numbers are underrepresented because the children today are all listening on DVDs. Seriously.

R349, that is the funniest thing I have heard (today).

R349, and R92 claimed Janet's been shadow banned on Spotify and the two parties are in litigation over it. I wonder if she's also in litigation with Youtube because her numbers aren't very impressive their either.

They aren't impressive because no one remembers the fat bitch.

^^aren't very impressive THERE either

Oh, dear!

Whitney and Mariah constantly gave Janet plaudits over the years and were/are friends of hers. Whitney used to cover Control in concert and Mariah has gone on record about how the Control album inspired her own career.

As for the no-talent-having ho Madonna (or any of them, frankly), when they release a seminal album like Rhythm Nation 1814 that is so perennially relevant that it gets put into the Library of Congress, then get back to me. Until then, have several seats.

When The Roots played Janet’s “Skin Game” while HAGdonna came out from backstage on Jimmy Fallon still absolutely slays because it was some obvious shade toward the old bitch. 😂

[quote]Whitney and Mariah constantly gave Janet plaudits over the years

I love that video of Whitney and Cissy making fun of Janet's singing.

Fascinating, Jabba, thanks. We've never heard that non-story before.

Madonna, taking lessons…

Whitney and Pebbles loving Janet, and Whitney singing Control in concert…

Rhythm Nation sounds so dated now. The social justice songs are laughable. I remember it being a hit at the time, but at the same time there was Madonna's Like A Prayer album, then Vogue and the Blonde Ambition tour. Madonna was white hot in that moment.

^Dated, shmated. It is still relevant and in the Library of Congress. LAP was basically a bunch of Pat Leonard filler with a few hits sprinkled in.

Nothing of Janet's holds up today. Some of Madonna's music also doesn't hold up, but the majority does. Like a Prayer is timeless, as is Take a Bow. I would say anything pre-2000 of Madonna's still holds up perfectly.

I used to be the hugest fan of Cyndi Lauper, but I find I can't listen to anything of hers anymore, it's so dated. I especially hate everything on True Colors. But even She's So Unusual, which is a fantastic album, no longer holds up.

Some of Whitney's songs hold up, but her voice goes a long way to helping that.

The album Madonna wanted Bedtime Stories to be, but failed miserably…

Jump, Jabba, you fat gorilla.

[quote]Nothing of Janet's holds up today.

You’ve obviously never heard The Velvet Rope or know absolutely nothing about music.

Arguably Mark Romanek’s best video…

Why was Janet so obsessed with pointless interludes?

I will never forgive Michael for being so slow in recording his follow-up to Thriller. If he'd only been a little faster, Janet would still be doing bad Mae West impersonations on sitcoms.

The production on Rhythm Nation is very dated, very 80's in a bad way. It sounds cheap, I can't imagine any young person wanting to listen to that today.

With updated modern production the album would be much better.

[quote]Why was Janet so obsessed with pointless interludes?

It’s her style, grandpa.

The interludes are so amateurish and self-indulgent. And fat.

Really, R370? You’re full of shit. And OBVIOUSLY white.

Love them jack-o-lantern nostrils. totally natural.

R374, that interview was conducted over a year ago and is not what she currently looks like (but you, once again, TRIED it).

R373 Reaction videos are filled with people fake reacting and saying what the fans want to hear.

Why are her streams SO LOW Jabba?

Why would people rather listen to Otis Redding, classical composers and pretty much anyone else other than Janet?

Historic

Historic!

Whitney covered Control in concert is VERY cool.

Whitney and Janet were friends despite Bobby Brown's obsession over Janet.

She looks so good at R376

R378 Why is nobody listening to it?

No other female from Janet's era has an album deemed so culturally important that it gets inducted into the Library of Congress. Let that sink in. Because sales stats come and go, but the LOC is forever.

we all know why it's in there. wokeness.

I solidly believe that Whitney could have gotten close to Madonna in sales had she released more original albums. She waited too long between I'm Your Baby Tonight and My Love is Your Love. The Bodyguard was her high peak and she should have released an original album a year or two after. She just kept doing soundtracks instead. My Love is Your Love was a strong comeback but she went down the generic R&B route instead of exploring neosoul. She also could have done rock music as she absolutely had the strong vocals and some her 80s and early 90s stuff had pop rock sound. Madonna had the biggest start in the 80s but Mariah, Celine and Whitney were bigger in the 90s but Whitney fell off too soon.

Janet's peak was 1986 to 1993 honestly. Rhythm Nation and .janet especially were influential. I love The Velvet Rope and for R&B and soul fans that album is still dope but it was the start of her decline in popularity. Yes, Together Again, Doesn't Really Matter and All For You we're still hits and Let's Wait A While would have been too. But she ended up squarely in the urban market and her fanbase got more and more niche. The same deal happened with Prince and Toni Braxton, they simply began catering more to R&B fans not the mainstream anymore. This is not a bad thing

Flop

UH-OH. Someone's tour bombed.

Massive flop

Why has Janet Jackson's music aged so poorly?

R385 is not only butthurt that his fave's albums aren't deemed important enough for a LOC induction, but he's also a racist, as are all the other Janet haters. Personally, it makes me giddy.

Speaking of flops...

.....

Flippity flipitty FLOP...

[quote]But she ended up squarely in the urban market and her fanbase got more and more niche.

This is incorrect. Janet's reign was squarely 1986-2001. The Velvet Rope and All For You were huge #1 albums, with the former being highly influential to this day and giving her the best reviews of her career, and the latter debuting at #1 with her biggest first week sales ever. They may not have sold what the big three sold, but they were still successful enough to keep Janet's reign as the Queen of Pop/R&B squarely in her grasp. It was only after the Super Bowl incident where white mainstream media began to dog her out and urban outlets continued to let her shine. Even still, she was already a certified worldwide icon at that point, so the debate over whether or not she was "popular" anymore was (and still is) moot. With 2015's Unbreakable, she became one of only three artists (and the only black artist) to have a #1 album in four consecutive decades.

Speaking of Unbreakable vs. Rebel Heart, this meme still tickles me...

[quote]With 2015's Unbreakable, she became one of only three artists (and the only black artist) to have a #1 album in four consecutive decades.

Yep...

And after all of that.....she's still forgotten. Sad.

Time moves on.

Janet was still popular but he audience was skewing older. She still had hits but her music after The Velvet Rope was more and more skewed to the older demographic just like with Madonna. Janet and Madonna were not not nor selling like Britney, Beyonce and Ashanti were with the youth. Mariah still had success due to being younger. But once Rihanna, Ciara, Taylor Swift, Gaga, Katy and others debuted. That marked a shift away from Gen X pop divas for good. Janet was at her biggest in the 90s when she was young and edgy and a style icon. All for You was her last hurray. I love Damita Jo but I think that was for old school Gen X R&B fans.

You pressed, Flabba?

[quote] With 2015's Unbreakable, she became one of only three artists (and the only black artist) to have a #1 album in four consecutive decades.

Wasn't that the album that they gave away for free with Uber rides to boost the first week numbers?

And didn't it fall completely off the chart within four weeks?

Janet Jackson was an urban niche artist post-90s. Yes she had another hit in the very early 2000s but it wasn't a big deal with mainstream audiences. Most people in the mainstream had moved on.

Is Janbot on DL 24/7? It seems that way. Janbot and the AWF troll are the worst nuisances on this site.

Janbot's been liking their own posts. Sad.

Jabba is the very definition of sad.

Her late 90s and mid-2000s stuff was purely for the R&B crowd and that's what she wanted and Dupri took her sound further that route. She got the Super Bowl because she was a big Gen X icon like Madonna, Prince, MJ and Paula Abdul and Super Bowl audiences usually tend to skew older. She invited Justin Timberlake because he was very popular with teens and added to the multiple demographic that the SB tries to obtain as well.

Yes, she didn't headline the Superbowl alone. Justin, who was more current at the time, was a co-headliner.

It's weird that Justin Timberlake was such a huge star back then.

And he's still a bigger star than Janet.

Well, Justin Timberlake just left NSYNC and NSYNC had one of the highest selling albums in the 2000s, No Strings Attached. They were huge from 1998 to 2002. Justin had the Neptunes and Timbaland production which was cutting-edge at the time and plus he had a public relationship and breakup with pop princess Britney Spears. And he and JC Chasez were the only good-looking members and could sing, JT was taller, younger and had that cocky personality and a marketable name. So he had the cards in his favor. His career fell off because the public realized he was never all that talented or interesting though.

[quotes]Yes, she didn't headline the Superbowl alone. Justin, who was more current at the time, was a co-headliner.

LIES.

It was her show. She was the draw. Justin Timberfag was brought on as a surprise special guest and Nelly, Puffy and Kid Rock were pretty much openers. Stop taking Wikipedia as the gospel.

Timberlake just had a hit album and like Janet could dance. He's annoying but stop pretending he wasn't a draw too. He was a major sex symbol as well. Puffy and Kid Rock are ugly and devoid of talent. Nelly was just as popular as JT too.

[quote]And he's still a bigger star than Janet.

Only in his fat, cultural-appropriating hillbilly wet dreams.

R412 So are Pharrell, Timbaland, Clipse, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Alicia Keys, Left Eye, TI and other Black people who collaborated with Justin Timberlake and helped build his career guilty of "cultural appropriation?" J. Lo's career was also aided by Black people. Same with New Kids on the Block, Madonna, Teena Marie, Jojo, Iggy Azalea, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, etc. Black people profit off of white performers too.

[quote] J. Lo's career was also aided by Black people.

I know. Janet was once her employer.

[quote]It was her show. She was the draw. Justin Timberfag was brought on as a surprise special guest

No, Janet's sagging titty was the surprise special guest.

HAGdonna doesn’t even make the top 20 list of women with the most platinum digital singles 🤣

#1. Taylor Swift

#2. Rihanna

#3. Beyonce

#4. Carrie Underwood

#5. Ariana Grande, Katy Perry, Cardi B

#6. Selena Gomez

#7. Lady Gaga

#8. Billie Eilish

#9. Halsey, Whitney Houston

#10. Mariah Carey

#11. Nicki Minaj, Demi Lovato

#12. Janet Jackson

#13. Miranda Lambert

#14. Camila Cabello

#15. Adele

Fadnet is totally forgotten at this point. Imagine 60 years from now when all her fans are dead...if no one is listening to her now she'll be wiped out from the existence of music then.

[quote]Yes she had another hit in the very early 2000s but it wasn't a big deal with mainstream audiences

r402, r405 All For You (2001) was a big deal, that album is why Janet was selected to headline the 2002 SuperBowl. 9/11 was the only reason her appearance on the half-time show got delayed for 2 years until 2004. By that time, yes, her popularity was declining, people like Beyonce were dominating the charts.

[quote]Yes, she didn't headline the SuperBowl alone. Justin, who was more current at the time, was a co-headliner.

r406, Justin Timberlake technically wasn't a co-headliner at the 2004 SuperBowl. He was a surprise guest, which was a huge factor in how the whole "wardrobe malfunction" incident came about, if you watch the documentary. Janet Jackson was still the headliner, Diddy, Nelly and Kidd Rock were the co-headliners.

What R418 said, for all the stupid people in the back.

Jabba is talking to itself again. Pressed like Janet's saggy udder.

r420, Im not Janbot. I just correct people here when needed because I'm familiar with Janet's career and music. I already stated in this thread where I felt Janet fucked up when it came to the SuperBowl.

^A pressed lapdog is a pressed lapdog.

R422 is meant for R420.

The HAG is nowhere on the list at R416. LMAO!

Platinum digital singles mean nothing but free streams, Jabba, you fucking moron.

PRESSED!!

^^ Might be one of the stupidest things written on here

I like both Madonna and Janet's music. Why is this a contest? Janet never competed against Madonna or Michael Jackson anyway, her competition was Jody Watley, Paula Abdul and Pebbles which she beat them. She had little competition in the 90s but by the late 90s there was Mya, Aaliyah, Britney and J. Lo and Britney won out that battle. Madonna pretty much destroyed a lot of her competition early on by the mid-80s and only Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston were her competitors with Michael still being at top. Similarly Prince never competed against Michael Jackson, it was the other way around. Michael and Madonna both were insecure human beings who saw everyone was competitors.

Janet set records and signed deals that absolutely put her at the MJ echelon. She even outshone him for a time, which is why he wanted her assistance for "Scream." Janet didn't need to compete with Madonna, as her '80s-'90s albums set records that Madonna's did not. Janet had the biggest selling album of 1990. Also, Control made her the first female artist to have five top five hits from one album on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, Rhythm Nation 1814 set Hot 100 and Billboard 200 records, janet. was the first album by a female to debut at #1 during the SoundScan era, she nabbed an Oscar nom for "Again," set a record for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome, her RN Tour remains the biggest debut tour by an artist, etc., etc., etc.

Madonna definitely set records. So did Whitney and Mariah. Janet had her lane. They had theirs. Everyone was winning then. Unlike today where you can't have too many female superstars.

And yet, Jabba, Janet is firmly at the bottom of every list while Madonna is at the top.

Madonna's album sales completely demolish Janet's so Janbot's claims don't really make any sense. Madonna is one of only two women to have two albums sell about 40 million or more in EAS (equivalent album sales). The other female is Celine Dion, the only woman who has ever peaked higher with two back-to-back albums than her. The combines sales of True Blue and Like a Virgin are the same as what Janet sold throughout her entire career. That's just sad.

[quote] She even outshone him for a time

This never happened. Janet never outshined Michael until MAYBE after History. And even that is pushing it.

They're all distasteful and perverse: screwing with their faces, fucking kids, exposing themselves, doing anything for attention. History will always remember MJ and then a bunch of other Jacksons will be footnotes. It will be Michael and then the rest of the weirdos.

[quote]Janet is firmly at the bottom of every list while Madonna is at the top.

Except for that list at R416. And Madonna never got an Oscar nom, she wasn't the first woman with 5 consecutive #1 albums, she had nary a #1 US album throughout the entirety of the '90s, her movies suck...

[quote]exposing themselves

MARY!

R431's claims are pointless because Janet had long gaps between her album releases unlike HAGdonna, who released new material almost every other year for a long period of time. Janet's albums have also never been re-certified, so the current listed sales tallies of her albums is not correct.

But you tried it.

R436, your statement has nothing to do with my claims. If Janet was really as popular as you claim she was, Rhythm Nation and Control would have sold somewhere near what True Blue and Like a Virgin did. But they didn't. Janet's best selling album--Janet--sold as much as the likes of Music. An album Madonna released as a freaking 40 something year old.

In case Janbot tries to lie their way out of this one, here is a list strictly based on pure album sales (ignoring singles sales, compilations, music videos, etc.). Madonna has four albums in the top 100. Janet has 0. Nothing more needs to be said

Jabba forgets the most important list of all. Janet is at the top of this one.

R436 Even if they were re-certified they would be nowhere near Madonna's numbers and you know it.

[quote][R436], your statement has nothing to do with my claims. If Janet was really as popular as you claim she was, Rhythm Nation and Control would have sold somewhere near what True Blue and Like a Virgin did. But they didn't. Janet's best selling album--Janet--sold as much as the likes of Music. An album Madonna released as a freaking 40 something year old.

I realize you are slow, but do try and re-read what I said upthread because it stands. Janets. Albums. Have. Never. Been. Re-certified. And. We. Do. Not. Know. The. True. Sales. Tallies. Of. Them.

R441 You're retarded if you think re-certified sales would put her anywhere near Madonna or make much of a difference at all.

Beyonce fans were crowing about re-certified sales to make excuses for her lack of diamond album. Well the sales were re-certified and still NO diamond album.

R441, you are retarded. That website includes all sales . It's not based off the RIAA. And you are demented if you think Janet's sales would ever be anywhere near Madonna's.

R443, still not grasping on English. Pathetic.

Still hot

^Agreed. Phenomenal choreography. It was Michael’s favorite song off RN and the choreography influenced the end sequence of his Black or White video.

[quote] still not grasping on English

That should be "still not grasping English." You tried it though!

Jabba is the ONLY one who has ever claimed that Janet would have such enormous sales IF ONLY her albums would be re-certified. It's a massive sack of bullshit, like everything else that comes out of Jabba's stank ass.

R436 I'm actually a pretty big Janet fan, but you use the phrase "you tried it" and "stay pressed" so much that you look like a fool.

R448, Janet had sold millions regardless, but the fact that her albums have never even been re-certified just shows that you asshats in here going on about her sales are just fucking fools.

R446 slays!

[quote]It's weird to think songs like Black Cat were such big hits

Like Beyonce, Janet brought the songs to life because she was such a great show-woman, energy off the charts. This 1990 performance of Black Cat on MTV was one of her best. She was the hottest thing out

Janet pays her publicists a fortune to scour the world for the most obscure bullshit awards that she can buy herself in order to help burnish her less than stellar achievements. If re-certification was necessary to make it seem like there had been any more sales to make a difference, Janet would have had it done ages ago and spent a fortune to publicize it. Face it Jabba, you fat sack of shit, there is no reason to re-certify something that stopped selling years ago.

I agree R452, and she was GORGEOUS there too.

[quote]Janet had sold millions regardless, but the fact that her albums have never even been re-certified just shows that you asshats in here going on about her sales are just fucking fools.

Total bullshit. But you tried it Jabba. Stay pressed.

The whispercoo is so anonymous and forgettable, her songs could be by anyone. They sound like demos waiting for a real vocalist. There's nothing for the ear to hold on to. Jam and Lewis loaded her stuff with instrumental hooks knowing she has no presence.

I've said it before.

Janet is a poor man's Jody Watley (who was more talented, sassier and put out original music, not tired samples).

She looked best during the full-burka years.

What is she pregnant with in that photo, a luau pig?

r457 love Jody but gurl, I just cannot see her pulling off a performance as seen at r452. Janet was visually captivating

R460 The highlight is when she rips her shirt open to reveal her tits.

Whisper it, gurl.

[quote]She was the hottest thing out

No, But you tried it.

r463:

[quote]Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814 was the best performing and best-selling album of 1990 despite not reaching number-one at any point during the year.

R464, that statistic is no longer true. The Immaculate Collection, Garth Brook's No Fences and Mariah Carey's debut all outsold Rhythm Nation.

The album hit #1 in Nov of 1989, Jabba, you fucking moron. We all know that Billboard counts from October to October for rankings.

R465 Link?

Go search it, Jabba.

Rhythm Nation- 6 million units

Immaculate Collection- 10 million units

No Fences- 18 million units

Mariah Carey- 9 million units

You fail AGAIN, Jabba.

R467, this one is based off EAS. If you click on 1989, you see that Rhythm Nation sold a total of ~18 million which Mariah and Garth exceeded with their albums in 1990 (and Madonna exceeded with Like a Prayer too). Madonna's IC is not visible because it is a compilation.

^Once again, although I don’t know why I keep bothering because you’re clearly retarded — Janet’s albums have NEVER BEEN RECERTIFIED. RN’s true sales tallies are much higher than what is currently out there.

[quote]Janet is a poor man's Jody Watley (w

Ha! As much as I like Jody, she wishes. Jody’s solo debut was made possible due to the success of Control. The end.

[quote] ^Once again, although I don’t know why I keep bothering because you’re clearly retarded — Janet’s albums have NEVER BEEN RECERTIFIED. RN’s true sales tallies are much higher than what is currently out there.

You know who else's albums have never been recertified? The Starland Vocal Band. You know why? BECAUSE NO ONE IS STILL BUYING THEM, YOU FAT TROON.

Recertification isn't what Jabba thinks it is. Even if something hasn't been recertified, its sales are available. There is no proof whatsoever that Janet's numbers would be drastically different with recertification. And btw, that link takes into account uncertified sales. So Rhythm Nation has gone 8x platinum in the United States as that website notes but the RIAA only has it at 6x platinum. That' s a difference, NOT a drastic one. The way Jabba tells it, Rhythm Nation should be competing with Jagged Little Pill, The Bodyguard and Come On Over lol.

I remember about a year or so ago, Daddy Yankee did an interview where he said how reluctant he was to appear on Janet's record Made For Now because he didn't like it and thought it would hurt his brand. But his manager at the time insisted it would be a good move and get his name out there to a wider audience. He said what wound up happening was that his fan base came to the record, boosted some of the early stream numbers, and then rejected it, and gave him a hard time for selling out and appearing on a record that was both not his style nor very good.

And yet Made For Now debuted and charted higher than HAGdonna's shitty Medelin, or whatever the fuck it was called.

[quote]I remember about a year or so ago, Daddy Yankee did an interview where he said how reluctant he was to appear on Janet's record Made For Now because he didn't like it

This never happened.

[quote]I remember about a year or so ago, Daddy Yankee did an interview where he said how reluctant he was to appear on Janet's record Made For Now because he didn't like it

This never happened.

[quote]And yet Made For Now debuted and charted higher than HAGdonna's shitty Medelin, or whatever the fuck it was called.

Made For Cow fell off the charts completely after one week.

All this talk about re-certifying is kind of pointless isn't it? Madonna's albums also haven't been re-certified and are completely out of date. Others probably are as well. If everyone's were re-certified, it would just keep the gap the same or spread it out even further.

[quote] This never happened.

Prove it, fat ass.

[quote]Prove it

The burden of proof lies on the fagula who posted the fabrication at R474.

Once again, Jabba is allergic to facts. If it didn't happen, Jabba, then prove it.

Someone mentioned interludes…..

I HATE THEM!

at least she has admitted she is an untalented wretch compared to other great singers.....the whole family is livin off jacko's residual $$$$$ from sales etc..... janet is plum washed up and broke hence her attempt at gettin some o dat saudi $$

R484, she did?

It's been quiet in here. Jabba must have gotten arrested again for shoplifting brassieres at Walmart.

^Ooh look, the faggot got tired of being ignored.

How is someone able to post gay slurs over and over and over again on a gay forum? It's BS. I doubt a black person saying the N word repeatedly on Lipstick Alley would be tolerated for more than a second.

^White grievance much?

R489, I'm not even white. Countless posters on DL have been suspended for far less. It's one poster who keeps attacking other gay men with the f word yet they haven't even been suspended. Not sure why that is.

R490, so how do you feel about the word "gorilla" being tossed around in reference to Janet? Or the countless times the N word and other racist epithets are used on this site?

I'm waiting.

[quote]I'm not even white.

Sure, Jan.

R491, I don't owe you an explanation. You are right though, if people do use the n word, they should be banned.

[quote] so how do you feel about the word "gorilla" being tossed around in reference to Janet? Or the countless times the N word and other racist epithets are used on this site?

There goes Jabba, twisting the truth again. The word "gorilla" is never used in reference to Janet, it's used in reference to you, Jabba.

[quote]You are right though, if people do use the n word, they should be banned.

At least you have the cojones to admit it.

Poor old Janet. Always a flop. You'd think she would just finally give up and go away.

Janet always had more R&B infused music, I think that prevented her being more popular than purely pop acts. Plus she was sabotaged by Les Moonves in the 2000s-- the last decade before full internet/streaming/change in the way we consume music.