Southern Baptist men: tell me about them

Small minded

Can anyone explain the difference between Houston First Baptist and Second Baptist churches? I assume they are both trash, but I can't figure it out, and it's driving me crazy.

Polite and gentlemanly, until you threaten their sense of entitlement or privilege, or fail to match their dedication to "our way of life", Then, they turn vicious.

Interesting, r3. I saw that feature in two of the ones I've known

I shun the like lepers.

Why r5?

I think a very strong case could be made that the Southern Baptist church has played a big role in holding back the South's progress since the Civil War.

Interesting theory, r7

I know nothing about the history of the Southern Baptists

White trash trying to act like they're middle class and as sophisticated as people can be (they frequently have the biggest churches, certainly the largest flocks, so they feel like they're the ruling class in many towns and even cities in the Deep South).

Even there, other denominations that are less white trash (Methodist, Presbyterian of the South) and some that aren't trashy at all (Presbyterian USA and especially the vaunted Episcopal Church - the "old money" and ex-plantation owners, etc.) look down on Baptists like they're Untouchables, but Baptists are so stupid they don't realize this (or so defensive they won't admit it).

Anyway, combine ignorant and arrogant and you've got most of it figure out -- the "Deplorables" in a nutshell.

Oh and to show how cool they are, their biggest churches have bowling alleys, food courts, all manner of clubs for different age groups, marriage therapy classes, they're little micro-villages, replacing the failing mall culture.

Also - recreational sports teams, men's monthy breakfasts, weekly luncheons for the elderly... I can't even remember all the shit. I never went but live down here and know a lot of people who do go, and for many, it's their entire social life. Sometimes I'm jealous of that part. You just sign on the dotted line, they hug you and applaud you as a new member at the weekly potluck, and voila, you've got a huge extended family (as long as you do as everybody else does, especially politically - Republican of course)

Baptists, aside from looking down on the unsaved and the "worldly" denominations mentioned above, also frown upon Pentecostals and Charismatics, because the tacky, unseemly "gift of tongues" was only for the early church.

Correction to R9 - it's "Presbyterian Church in America" (not of the South) but it IS of the south. It split from the national Presbyterians over Civil Rights. Presbyterian USA is a liberal mainline church - PCA is a fundamentalist southern church founded on segregation.

It's still a step about Southern Baptist, socially.

There aren't enough Lutherans, LDS, Congregationalists, Quakers, etc., to really matter. The reason Baptists and Methodists (to a lesser extent) "rule" the south is they were the only churches who assigned itinerant preachers to come down in the 1800s and early 1900s when the population was too sparse to hire regular preachers and provide for them, etc., so anyway, the vast majority of people (other than the wealthy) belonged to one of those.

Eventually, littler churches of a similar bent sprang up - Jehovahs Witnesses, Pentecostal, that sort, who do fit the Zeitgeist very well down here.

* a step above Southern Baptist

And I apologize for spamming the thread and even avoiding the real question. Southern Baptist men are yokels, gun loving, grandma on Sundays, get drunk on Saturday and screw around after a honky tonk visit, type. It's hard to be gay but some persevere, the brainwashing is so strong. They're looked down on and try to be extra people-pleasing to make up for it - and of course, are often closeted but everybody mildly rolls their eyes. They often lead the choir or organize the alternative Halloween festival (the "fall festival") so they're tolerated.

Very sweet - but so deluded. Sad.

There was this son of a preacher man...

I wish someone with r13's breadth of knowledge about white trash Protestants would show up and answer my question.

There was a Southern Baptist guy on my dorm floor in the 70s. He was from a very rural part of the state. He wore denim overalls over a white tee shirt and a cowboy hat most every day. Drinking, smoking (anything), sexual activity and doing drugs were sins in his religious views. He reminded us of it all the time.

When I saw him in the shower for the first time, I was shocked. He had a muscular chest; a long, thick cock; a dense mass of light brown hair around it, and heavy hanging balls. We carried on a conversation while we showered. I tried desperately to keep my cock pointing downward; I had to cut my time under the water short and grabbed my towel. At one point, his face looked up, his hands were shampooing his hair, and the water shimmered down him.

On the weekends, he didn't wear a shirt under his overalls; the clips connecting to the bib were a little low, and his nipples buds would get caught in them. It looked painful; I couldn't imagine those clips rubbing on my nipples all day. But looking at them turned me on.

I would have offered to put my hands and mouth all over him, but I feared he would burn me at the stake.

Now I wonder if the nipple-play was meant to draw us gay folk in. Maybe he was advertising he wanted a blow job. What if I had responded? Believe me, I wanted to.

The man's man, anti-gay, runs deep -- but if it gives you any hope, Southern Baptists and similar low-rung Protestants have the highest divorce rates of any grouping (especially atheists, who have the lowest rate.)

They have drinking and opioid problems way above average - probably more abortions but I'm not sure how that's playing out with access so limited (I know of several who took vacations in order not to be found out when they had their abortions in other states)

Whenever you tell people that something's contraban, it adds to the excitement of doing it -- which goes back even to the moonshine stills of the 1920s (think the Clampetts and the govt agents coming to shut them down).

They're wild as hell on a Saturday night -- and there in the church being as hypocritical as, well, Donald Trump, on Sundays. But he's cynical about it. They still believe they're God's special children who have been saved by their baptism and personal relationship with Jesus and he'll forgive them (think Jimmy Swaggert crying on tv to his arena after being found with multiple prostitute - I believe trannies? - cocaine, etc. and this was the 1970s).

And of course, all was forgiven and he was still much beloved. See also the PTL club fraudsters, Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker - and Oral Roberts saying that if his followers didn't send him $1 million that Jesus would kill him, I guess reflecting the Abraham/Isaac story -- if you want a taste of it, watch The Night of the Hunter or Elmer Gantry. I'm always shocked when I see a photo of the pastor of one of these mega-churches who's dressed like Elvis and wearing diamonds and a Rolex watch.

Americana at its worst.

Most of them are premature ejaculator’s. That’s what happens when you don’t get it enough.

My Alabama ancestors were proud members of the "Primitive Baptist" church. Can't imagine what that's like.

My sister-in-law in Meadville, Mississippi, proudly belongs to the Meadville Mississippi Primitive Baptist Church, were she raised her children.

One is a diagnosed schizophrenic on disability payments for life (she herself has a bipolar diagnosis - well deserved - she spent time in the State hospital for the insane, but the son is suspect). Another son is still living with her at 40-something and his only job that I know of was going to Russia as a missionary and to teach English.

For a while, she did a vlog pitching conspiracy theories - she's an anti-vaxxer and caught a bad case, now has to take oxygen with her wherever she goes.

These are the Evangelicals, people. They be crazy, lazy and self-indulgent. But if you want a wild night out - they might be your guy.

First, the extremists took over the SBC and then, the Republican party. Theocrats drove all reasonable parishioners and leaders out in a hostile takeover.

Taking over the South

Great thread. Thanks everyone!

I think the entitlement of Southern Baptist men is what sets them apart.

Often as not they are led around by the proverbial rings in their noses by their overfed, dumpy wives.

I was raped by my pastor when I was eight years old. There was a ring of sexual predators in the church.

Southern Baptist values.

I'm sorry, r26, they are monsters. I hope you've been able to heal.

If you need it, rainn can help, r26.

Southern Baptists are taught that people possessing wealth and material fortune are in God’s favor and have been blessed by Him. Those who are poor, unemployed or suffer misfortune have the devil in them and, if only they’d accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, things would change for them.

This is why you often hear a Southern Baptist say, “I’m blessed!”, especially when talking about things other people would consider outside of their control.

The downside to the “I’m blessed!”, belief system is that when a Southern Baptist loses their job due to corporate layoffs, their home due to lack of income, are a crime victim or a disaster (tornado/hurricane) victim they believe it is because they have allowed Satan into their hearts. Nevermind that a corporate number cruncher in LA decides to reduce the workforce in Decatur and your job is eliminated. No, it is because that guy in Decatur had Satan in his heart.

This also results in the Southern Baptists who experience a change in their fortunes from being shunned by the other members of the flock. No one wants to associate with Satan so they ostracize them and go so far as to cross to the other side of the street when they see them.

Just remember this when you hear a Southerner say, “I’m blessed!”. It is code for something else.

Del Shore’s Southern Baptist Sissies is fun. There are free ways to watch it. Was on Tubi. Obviously the music has an emotional pull.

They are the respectable fundamentalist church in the South. Lower middle class to middle class, even some upper class in big cities in Texas. They are not independent Baptist churches which is real trashy, or charismatic like the Pentecostals, which is not respectable. They are not the minor white Baptist denominations like Primitive Baptist, Hardshell Baptist or Missionary Baptist. They are not the large Black Baptist denominations as African Americans tend to shy away from this church born to support slavery during the Civil War. They are the largest single Protestant denomination in the US, only the Catholic Church is bigger among Christians. They are the largest denomination in the South with the exception of West Virginia where those tiny in the hollows independent Baptists dominate.

They used to be Arminian, which meant they believed in free will but the last 20 years has witnessed A stealth takeover of the denomination by a conservative type of Calvinism. The Arminians, think Billy Graham, are a minority in the denomination now or have become independent Baptists.

Baptists in any form really dominate the South tho.

Very informative; thanks r30

This thread has been very enlightening. Many thanks to the primary poster for objective info and insights.

I've been to Georgia and California

I took the hand of a preacher man

And we made love in the sun...

But I've never been to me...

Let’s cut to the chase: Just Fork Over Your Goddamn Money

"God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." - Southern Baptist Convention President Bailey Smith, 1980.

I avoid overtly religious people. Do you live in the bible belt, OP? My condolences if so.

I worked with the Baptist guy years ago and he told his Catholic subordinate that she was not going to heaven, being Catholic.

These days, that would be grounds for dismissal. But this was so long ago you could smoke at the office at your desk.

R29 nicely details the sheer evilness of most christians. They completely corrupt Jesus's message of "Love thy neighbor" and "help the poor."

They're all so damned sure Jeebus is gonna save them . . . smug assholes.

The men are very entitled, social- climbing and believe that God's blessing is the form of prosperity. They worship men with power whether it's a rich athlete or Trump. Pentecostal, Charismatic and Evangelical churches are all spin-offs of Baptist churches and more-or-less Baptist churches have taken on Pentecostal and Evangelical elements as well. There's a lot of superstition as well like belief in magic, curses, possessions, angels and demons walking amongst us. This could be more related to the fact the South is more rural. They also believe women as property, the women are raised to internalize the idea of "ride or die". A lot of that denomination's influence is pervasive throughout Southern and Black culture and you see this in country and rap music. And white Southern men and Black man have this whole DL culture and that's why HIV is so big in the South.

I would run screaming from any gay man who regularly attends a church that denies gay people their rights.

Something that is not discussed anymore is that any number of churches taught that black people have no 'souls'. (well, at least they got one thing right)- and that is why their skin is dark. I heard this a lot in the sixties, even into the early seventies, until it wasn't too fashionable to say that out loud anymore.

This also justified slavery- they had no 'soul', so nobody cared what happened to them.

I grew up Southern Baptist in Texas. There are some very kind, although maybe narrow minded, people.

I do admire the true believers genuine love of the Lord. They read their Bible, and care about people sinning. They talk to people out of love of the gospel and not hate. However, a vast majority go to church on Sunday to "check off the box."

There are a few anon accounts on Twitter who are discreet Baptist pastors. On twitter they are immoral as hell. While kinky, I feel bad for their congregation.

How do you know about the Twitter accounts, r43?

Black Baptist churches do have a long history of Civil Rights activism like during the era of Adam Clayton Powell and MLK but today they are useless and hold Black people back now in my opinion especially Black women. So many of these preachers are homophobic and misogynistic and total scammers like TD Jakes and Creflo Dollar that pushed prosperity gospel nonsense and many of these preachers are on the DL. I remember on Aazah (a black gay website) when they posted pics and vids of black preachers and choir boys sucking dick after doxxing.

Slain in the Spirit, washed in the blood of the Lamb.

You can throw up now.

Messy bottoms.

[quote] I do admire the true believers genuine love of the Lord. They read their Bible, and care about people sinning.

Really? They sound like a bunch of hypocrite busybodies to me.

R44 The proof is in the pudding

r43, they're kind to you, perhaps, and people they identify as "one of them" but they cut your throat from behind when you slightly deviate from the herd. They'll help a black guy broken down on the side of the road (maybe) but will get back in their truck, call him a "stupid n," and vote for politicians who blatantly take away his rights and humanity. So kind.

Guess how I know.

Southern white Baptists have always been racist. The Southern Baptist Convention was a coalition of white Baptists churches in the South/lower Midwest that wanted to maintain the institution of slavery and thus separated from associating with the churches that opposed it. White Baptist preachers used their pulpits to support slavery. After Emancipation, white Baptist churches became a hub for the KKK, Daughters of the Confederacy and whitecapping and preachers would even help organize lynch mobs. Black Baptists and liberal white Northern Baptists had formed their own coalitions but Southern Baptist Convention remains a very powerful influence on Southern politics and abets the GOP.

R43 is blocked. What a ridiculous set of statements to make on a gay website.

[quote]My Alabama ancestors were proud members of the "Primitive Baptist" church. Can't imagine what that's like.

Primitive Baptists have a feets fetish.

[...]

I was raised Catholic in the South and am what DL and Southerners consider "white adjacent." They don't really believe Catholics are Christian, even today.

Yeah outside of Louisiana, Texas, Florida and Maryland (if you consider those latter three the South), you're basically an ethnic minority if you're Catholic. To those in the Northeast and West Coast that's a bizarre concept but the South is the only region where the white population remained predominately of Anglo/German/Scot-Irish extraction outside of the major cities.

Catholics and Jews in the Deep South deserve their own thread - it's enough to say they were second-line targets of the KKK.

r56, I'd make a distinction in the case of Louisiana and Texas. North Louisiana and East Texas are just like Mississippi. South Louisiana and the rest of Texas are very different from the Deep South.

Do you consider Houston East Texas r58?

R58 I agree. South Louisiana is more like the Caribbean and the rest of Texas is more similar to the Southwest and Northern Mexico. But what's fascinating is East Texas does have a lot of Southern LA influence due to Cajun and Creole migrations to towns like Houston and Port Arthur. I would argue Far East TX, Southern LA and Southern Mississippi have a unique Creole culture of the Gulf Coast. Most of Texas got settled by Appalachian whites I believe and the state gradually become more akin to Northern Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee.

Southern Louisiana (and to an extent, even the coastline of Mississippi and the Alabama city Mobile, which held the first American "Mardi Gras" I believe, have a significant Catholic population - and also have a distinctly different culture than the true "Deep South" just above them. The accent is even remarkably different. A mono-culture of its own, even with its own cuisine - spicy Creole/Cajun.

And it's own music r61!

I live in Houston, r59. It's on the border, I think. East of Houston is like East Texas. I'm also the one who asked about the Houston First and Second Baptist churches. They are in the same general part of town, a very wealthy area. I can only assume they hate each other, and I'd love to know the reasons.

And New Orleans had its own separate music - 1890s black "hot bands" developing into Jazz combining with Mississippi blues to further evolve into rock and roll. Interesting place, compared to Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams, Tammy Wynette Scots-Irish derived country music.

With Faulkner, Welty, Tennessee Williams, Walker Percy, Flannery O'Connor - the southern "grotesque" was vividly captured in literature. Odd, haunted, much reviled and shameful (hatred of Afrian-Americans) region.

But why is it echoed in some ways in the Midwest or could hardly boast a black face to be seen in a crowd? And I believe the KKK was started in Indiana. Honestly, we're as creepy as Russia. Maybe creepier, in historical terms.

*the Midwest WHICH could hardly boast a black face...

I believe the lower Midwestern states like Illinois, Missouri, Indiana and Ohio were Southern influenced and had slavery (think Huck Finn) or forms of it, they definitely have a large free black population as well. That region always gets neglected for its racism, there absolutely was the KKK, lynch mobs, sundown towns and that is where also minstrel shows became popular and employed many German, Irish, Nordic and Polish immigrants as performers.

Thank you, R66. A friend of mine from Iowa is surprised at how Trumpian it is, especially without an African-American or Mexican to be seen, at least when she was growing up - but the racism and ethnocentrism was still very strong.

Racism is a powerful thing, sadly. I mean, the KKK with their extreme hatred of Jews when there were hardly ANY in the entire region.

White Southerners are used enough to Black people to interact smoothly with them even if they have racist feelings. It's odd to explain but there's some type of emotional codependency that Southern whites have on Black people that dated back to slavery where white children were raised by Black mammies and white slaveowners used Black female slaves for emotional support. The book Kindred by Octavia Butler explains that very toxic relationship that borders on love and hate.

[quote] That region always gets neglected for its racism,

The Mountain States (ID, WY, MT) do as well. Lily-white, and the largest minority are Native Americans (on reservations).

Northern, Midwestern and Western anti-black racism is more rooted in xenophobia and fear of competition, the WASPs saw Black people as a threat to their way of life and they already disliked how many free people of color had flourishing communities while the working-class Germans Irish, Italian, Scandinavians, Jews and Polish immigrants saw Black people as competition for jobs and dislike having to live in the same neighborhoods as Black people. Northern WASPS were Abolitionists but wanted to ship Blacks back to Africa. Also there was anti-Southern sentiment and most Black people who came to the North, Midwest and West were Southerners, many of the light-skinned Black elite like WEB DuBois looked down on darker-skinned Southern Blacks too. A lot of stereotypes of Black people are the exact same as poor white Southerners if get down to it. Racist MAGAT Northerners and Midwesterners in fact still say "GO BACK TO AFRICA!"

Traditional Southern racism is paternalistic and rooted in the idea that Blacks are intellectually inferior and destined to be a domestic underclass. White Southerners did not support "Back to Africa" movement and the Lost Cause romanticism of the Antebellum era involved showing happy, smiling slaves, mammies, pickaninnies and such was designed to evoke nostalgia. Zora Neale Hurston, Toni Morrison and Alice Walker who written about Black people in the South during the Jim Crow capture the complex relationship they had with white people. White Southerners see Black people as plain ol' Americans just like them. Xenophobia towards Hispanics, Indians and Arabs is strong and even Black Southerners are xenophobic.

I went to a Southern Baptist church with my college roommate one year, A nice-looking man was baptized in a four-foot-tall tank of water. He was wearing a shirt and tie and nice pants. He and the pastor, also dressed in shirt and tie, stepped into the tank and the water was halfway up both men's abs. He was pushed back until he was totally under the water. When he was lifted up, his nipples were showing through his shirt; they were nice quarter-sized nipples I wanted to touch. They were distracting. I was worried the tie's color would bleed onto his shirt.

He and the pastor came out of the tank. If I were the pastor, I would have dipped completely under the water myself. He looked ridiculous with his top half dry and his lower half soaked.

So with the Southern Baptists, you have old Southern mentality, Republican rhetoric, protestantism, and Anglo-Saxon ethnic impulses that make a strange cultural identity goop. They're not the most rational, they're not creative at all, they have an anti-intellectual mindset. Good at being punctual, consistent, efficient, hard working, frugal and friendly*. Do not waste your time debating them, especially if they see you as an outsider. They will do all sorts of mental gymnastics to jump to whichever conclusion is most convenient to the particular individual. Just more complicated than they are portrayed in media, and you'd find they consist of a lot of contradictions. Now that I live in the North, people lack a certain warmth yet they don't seem to pay much attention to how I look or who I'm associating with. I met my first Jews when I went to college, and I was so impressed with how ambitious, creative and intelligent the girls were. Complete 180 degree shift from the girls I was raised with.

What's the difference between American Baptist and Southern Baptist, someone please!

R73 The slave issue caused a schism. If I recall, the Baptists placed restrictions, so the south broke away from the American Baptists and created their own denom. There are major cultural and ideological differences between the southeast and the rest of the country, so that's probably where most of the differences are.

The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest protestant religious organization in the US. It's an association rather than a strict church structure like Catholicism.

You can see the wide variety of names that fall under the SBC here: churches.sbc.net/

From the Pew article at r75 (more at link):

1. The Southern Baptist Convention is the biggest Protestant denomination in the United States, accounting for 5.3% of the U.S. adult population, according to Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study. America’s second-largest Protestant group, the mainline United Methodist Church, accounts for 3.6% of U.S. adults. Southern Baptists make up about a fifth of all U.S. evangelical Protestants (21%).

2. The total number of Southern Baptists in the U.S. – and their share of the population – is falling. When the first Religious Landscape Study was conducted in 2007, Southern Baptists accounted for 6.7% of the U.S. adult population (compared with 5.3% in 2014). And according to the SBC’s official membership tally, there were 14.8 million members of all ages in 2018, down about 1% from a year ago – part of a longer pattern of decline.

3. The Southern Baptist Convention is not a centralized church like the Roman Catholic Church, but a fellowship of congregations. Together, these congregations teach that the Bible contains no errors and that personal acceptance of Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Southern Baptists also practice baptism by immersion in water. As of 2018, there were 47,456 Southern Baptist churches spread across 41 state conventions, according to the denomination. But Southern Baptists remain heavily concentrated in the South: SBC figures show that 81% of its members live in the region, including about 2.7 million in Texas and more than a million each in Georgia and North Carolina.

4. The vast majority of Southern Baptists are white (85%), with few black members (6%) and even fewer Latinos (3%), according to the 2014 Religious Landscape Study. Although the denomination is more racially and ethnically diverse than the largest mainline Methodist or Lutheran churches (both are more than 90% white), it is less diverse than the rest of the evangelical Protestant tradition (73% white, 6% black, 13% Latino) and U.S. Protestants overall (69% white, 18% black, 8% Latino).

I think of Southern Baptist men as always white and then subdivided into three groups.

1. Hawt young Scots Irish types with blond or red hair. Thin or jacked. Willing for a little same sex action on the downlow especially when drinking. They say "I'm nutting" when cumming. Yummers!

2. Fat Billy Bob types who no on cares about. They are usually good hardworking boys and hen pecked by their wives. Ages 18 to 50s.

3. Old jowly types who look like Big Daddy in Cat or worse. They are very religious as they are coming near the end of their lives.

Thanks r74! Slavery was the divisive issue... stunned. How could there be two opinions about such a heinous practice?

This thread is most informative.

Actually, threads like these are why I can't quit the DL

R78 - ask the otherwise brilliant founding fathers? May have something to do with money.

This is only tangentially related to this thread, but I recently learned about "segregation academies," many of which seem to still be almost all white:

R81 - that was interesting, I never knew about these.

r82 I fell down a rabbit hole yesterday. Look at the high school graduating classes from this Mississippi school district in 2020. The former segregation academies are very apparent.

Why would anyone want to be affiliated with these places and their terrible legacy?? (Yes, I know, it's Mississippi, but still.)

RE: r83, look at "Heritage Academy"

Per Wiki, a bunch of these schools are in Mississippi

R73, This difference is that an American Baptist will speak when they see you in the liquor store.

Are Southern Baptists teetotalers?

Small dicks, big sloppy bellies, bad breath, tiny hippocampus!

Cut or uncut?

No, R86. They've always been famous for drinking and lying about it, when necessary. But even that's changing, even among the Southern Baptist Convention goers. From a "Baptist Press" article:

"Following the 2016 SBC annual meeting in St. Louis, a convention goer wrote a blog post titled “Why Baptists Drink but Might Not Want You to Know It.” In the post, she recounted her attendance at a lunchtime panel discussion during the convention, at which a well-known Southern Baptist pastor referenced his alcohol use. The blogger said she also “has grown to enjoy a glass of wine now and then.”

Lenow’s conclusion: “I believe we are seeing a change from total abstinence to a trend of acceptance of alcohol among Southern Baptists. The emphasis has moved from warnings about alcohol to highlighting Christian freedom.”

Many Baptists, Southern or otherwise, are what's known as "kitchen drinkers".

That means they keep a discreet bottle of something (whiskey, bourbon) tucked away under the sink for a nip now and then. If they like you, and know you real well, and trust you, they might offer you a nip too.

Only drank standing up over the sink tho.

Do Southern Baptists have a distinctive or different ethnic background?

I always assumed Scotch-Irish r91

Scotch Irish (Scottish), English, Irish, Welsh and German actually. Germans and Irish were in The South since the early 1800s and plenty converted to Protestantism during Great Awakening.

Southern WASP types tended to be Methodist or Presbyterian.

It's interesting ... I guess there is a way that Southern Baptists reinforce the already existing entitlement inherent in being a straight, white male in the United States.

R93, I think most Irish in the South, usually upland South, were descendants of Ulster Scots Irish. They came here and Protestant. Very anti-Catholic. The Germans were Protestant too, often German Reformed.

Good with cigars

Funny you bring up Clinton, r96. To my mind, he embodies the "typical Baptist male" qualities I mentioned at OP.

Compare him to George W. Bush, and (to my mind) the differences become clear. Bush is arrogant and problematic, but, being raised Episcopalian, he doesn't have the mark of Baptist entitlement.

But, on the other hand, Jimmy Carter (whose Baptist roots are deep) is NOT the typical Baptist male. He demonstrates a humility that many of them don't.

I think because Jimmy believes it's important to be 'Christ-like' and not just 'Christian'

Complete aside, r99, but it will be a sad day for me -- and the United States -- when Carter finally kicks the bucket

I grew up in a small town in north Mississippi. We went to and lived almost next door to the Baptist church, and my dad was even a deacon. We went up until I was about 11 or 12..I don’t remember what happened, but there was some sort of falling out an we quit going, which was GREAT for me—I hated it and had already gotten in trouble for asking too many questions. More time to listen to Casey Kasem’s Top 40 countdown! I also went to a “segregation academy.” It is not on that list at r83, but we definitely played against some of them at sports. I left that whole area at 18 and would never move back. I did drive through my old school not long ago, and it’s HUGE now, and I think still 98% white.

Fascinating, r101. I grew up in suburban Ohio and have lived in the Southwest and New England. Although I've traveled through it (not really in a meaningful way), the Deep South remains a mystery to me in many ways.

Well, OP, they're Southern and Baptist.

Thanks Rose / r103

They seem like bossy bottoms

Baptists are NOT anti-intellectual!

Agape Baptist Church = same shit, different wrapper.

R106 reminds me of a certain person's misunderstanding of "archetype." An "intellectual" is not simply someone educated in readin' writin' and rithmetic nor someone trained because "Supporting the tradition of all persons having the responsibility to proclaim the gospel, regardless of their level of education, does not conflict with the belief that education hones and builds up the gifts for ministry and life that God bestows."

It means thinking, questioning, studying history, the Enlightenment, philosophy, well, all manner of things that make someone sophisticated and not a fucking Baptist rube who takes their "responsibility to proclaim the gospel" literally.

You can be intellectual and Christian but you likely aren't into dogma, literal interpretation or attending services weekly. Intellectual Christians are more likely to be liberal and supportive of questioning and debating. They wouldn't be considered religious by the strict definition either. To most Baptists that is all seen as heresy and not true Christianity.

Baptists believe the Bible in the unerring Word of God.

Oh sweet heart, Southern Baptists are not exactly the Society of Jesus.

[quote]OP: Southern Baptist men: tell me about them

They won't fuck standing up because they're afraid people will think they're dancing.

Why, they're sissies, of course!

The only one who could ever reach me was the son of a preacher man.

Yes, he was.

Currently live in Mississippi (working on my doctorate). Was a juror on this case a few years back- These people got secrets.

just looking at that photo I can tell you those are not Southern Baptists, R115. Haven’t you read anything on this thread? You’re a Northener at least.

There are gay affirming Baptists but I'm sure not in the Southern Baptist Convention.

r115, that article is a little dry but I found another that describes the "cult-like environment" and "delusions of grandeur."

I wonder if this inspired the recent film Honk For Jesus. Save Your Soul.

Great thread. One of the better ones of late

R106 When I say that Baptists are anti-intellectual, that doesn't mean they don't value educations. It's that they view education in a different way from Catholics, Jews, or other religious groups. Humanities aren't valued at all. Males are encouraged to have an understanding of math and science to get a good paying engineering or medical career for example, but they aren't pressured. There's a big difference in the way they encourage their daughters. When I was leading VBS class senior year, a girl told me that her mom took away the books in her library because she thought she was reading too much. She was 10. It broke my heart. Most of the girls I graduated with became nurses or elementary school teachers.

I work with a woman who was raised Southern Baptist and is morbidly obese. I sometimes wonder if she was molested.

One of the former Baptists I know is now a practicing Catholic, which seems an interesting (if not uncommon) change. Maybe he likes something about dogmatic thinking.

The Southern Baptists were founded in 1845 in Atlanta. Like Mormons, they're very American.

And like Mormons they have white supremacy baked into their core.

Exactly, r124

Add to that American exceptionalism

I'd argue that Mormons and Southern Baptists are the most American of Christian denominations. Maybe Pentecostals, to a lesser extent

Pentecostals are heavily African influenced in worship style. It is said they were founded by former slaves who incorporated a lot of African conjure rituals and superstitions. And they influenced a lot of modern charismatic traditions like Assembles of God, the Church of God in Christ and plenty of non-denominationals. It's interesting they were among the earliest integrated denominations too as poor whites and blacks made up most of the services. White Pentecostals had their traditions of snake handling which came from African snake worship. Both white and Black Baptists considered Pentecostals as low class heretics who worshipped Satan and practiced magic with speaking in tongues and playing guitar. Ironically Baptists began integrating Pentecostal elements like speaking in tongues, emotional singing and use of guitars and drums in the mid-20th century. Elvis and Mahalia Jackson were influenced by Pentecostal churches. Baptists were originally uptight and relied on singing a capella or piano.

r127 are you a religious scholar? (Genuine question -- I'm impressed with the breadth of your knowledge)

Most of them follow the biblical text "be fruitful and multiply", and all the think about is fucking. They also believe their wives must make themselves available for breeding any time the man wants it, like it or not.

One of the former Southern Baptists I know has a cuckholding fetish. Another one is, I suspect, closeted. He definitely pings.

R128 I'm a journalism major but I studied a lot of theology and African-American history. I was raised in a religious home of Baptists and Pentecostals and I identify as agnostic now. The reason I became obsessed with studying it was due to how influential it was in my community and understanding why that was. It's a cliche agnostics/atheists tend to come from religious homes. It just never clicked with me that God was all-loving yet The Old Testament and Jesus sacrifice contradicted that. And the fact God just stopped revealing himself 2000 years ago and allowed horrific things to happen. It just seemed ridiculous people would go to Heaven just for accepting Jesus and nothing else and it enabled people to be self-righteous and hateful because they were in the "winning group." And how Christians in America vote is very much reflective of a religion that is backwards and enables tribalism. I feel all the Abrahamic religions are warrior tribal religions. But I find them fascinating to study in detail because they were also so successful and impactful on politics, society and education.

Also not a fan of "not real Christian do ...." this or that. Same with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. The prerequisite for any religion is acknowledging the central authority as the only true path and everyone else you do is indicative of you or whatever type of sect you belong to. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and are baptized, you are a Christian. Same deal if you accept Allah as the only God and follow The Prophet's teachings, you are a Muslim. There are many Christians and Muslims both refuse to take blame for the extremist sects of their groups and even have a discussion on it. While it's wrong to generalize large groups of people, it's just as wrong to deflect and deny that there could be problems within the group and condemnation of negative traits should not be silenced.

Are Southern Baptists still creationists?

R133 Yep. That's why it's so controversial to teach evolution in states like Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Georgia, Oklahoma and the Carolinas.

MARY!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I was a kid, I actually heard a Baptist preacher say “God created Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve.” I may have not known exactly that I was GAY then, but I knew enough to know that WHATEVER I was, was wrong in the eyes of that church.

Do they still follow the Billy Graham rule?

I asked a coworker today who was raised Southern Baptist. She said that men are still seen as "head of the household" and women are still supposed to obey their husbands.

R137 they follow the Golden Rule.

He who has the gold shall rule!

Cut or uncut?

I learned today that the "once saved, always saved" doctrine isn't found in all Baptist denominations. (For example, Free Will Baptists believe that salvation can be lost.)

Maybe this contributes to Southern Baptist arrogance

I think so, R141. I blame John Calvin.

I blame Augustine r142!

Southern Baptist men wear chino-colored Dockers and always end up with a big pee drop on their trouser crotch because they never shake enough at the public urinal.

(They don't want you to think they're masturbating.)

They’re spanked well into their 20s by their daddies.

[quote]They’re spanked well into their 20s

Pics please!

The way they talk about God, they may as well be a dull 5 year old talking about Santa Claus. The way they talk about Jesus is usually homoerotic

Southern Baptist men are raised to believe that if anyone disagrees with them, that person is obviously wrong. They hate being shown new things they've never seen or heard of because they believe if they don't know about it it's not worth knowing about. They are close minded to the extreme and also dogmatic to the extreme. They are to be avoided at all costs.

My question is a bit different ... in what ways do men who were raised Southern Baptist, but who leave the church and/or convert to a more progressive denomination, retain their "Southern Baptistness"?

Well, they still believe in fairytales r149

Not if they're atheists r150

There isn't a Baptist culture because it's not a monolith. Baptist can range from liberal to conservative and every church does things differently because it's built around individual congregations. Baptist theology is actually very modern and liberal compared to Catholic and Orthodox. Baptists and Methodists were participants in the Social Gospel and plenty supported integration and right to abortion. Both set up schools and colleges. The Southern Baptist Convention is a legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and doesn't reflect all of Baptists in the South. When the SBC went further right-wing, many Southern Baptists left and their churches became independent Baptist churches.

USA:

Southern Baptists, about 16 million.

Non southern Baptists, looks like less than 5 million.

Sorry.... more than 5 million but less than 10 million in the many varieties of Baptist in the US other than Southern

[quote]My question is a bit different ... in what ways do men who were raised Southern Baptist, but who leave the church and/or convert to a more progressive denomination, retain their "Southern Baptistness"

R149: driving huge pick up trucks with extra large wheels; voting Republican every time; watching college football but refusing to watch the NFL because of BLM; serving in the military or in the police; loving NASCAR, right-wing radio; country music; flying American flags on their houses; getting drunk at a "honky tonk" on Saturday night; loving all-you-can eat buffets and fast food; resenting LGBTQ and women's rights; loving Donald Trump because he tells it like it is and he's a real man - ditto DeSantis, Greg Abbott, believing that America is the best in every way, etc.

Oh I could go on but you probably get the picture.

My Episcopalian grandparents thought Baptists were low class white trash. That's all I've got.

They ARE low class white trash and should be avoided as best one can.

Episcopalians were also the vast majority of slaveholders in the South. The other being Catholic in Southern Louisiana and Mississippi.

r158 Episcopalians in the Northeast are somewhat different. Although there aren't that many devoutly religious people left in the Northeast except a few older Catholics. Religion is really going extinct in this region.

R159 Yes, you're right. Northern Episcopalians, Unitarians, Methodists, Baptists and Congregationalists made up the Abolitionist movement and were more involved with charities, education, social reforms and worker rights. And there were even Northern churches that were integrated though all-black Episcopal churches for free people were not at all uncommon. While in the South, it was mainly Methodists and Baptists (not the ones that would join the SBC) that were championing for social reforms and Abolitionism, which is why majority of black people converted to Baptist and Methodist denominations in the South.

The crux of the problem, OP. Is that these men are both “Southern” and “Baptist.”

A double-whammy.

R9 You're really invested in these class distinctions, aren't you?

Are you new to DL, r162?

Are other Baptist denominations (eg Free Will Baptists) as white trash as Southern Baptists?

Dirty, very dirty, kinky, nasty, depraved in bed.

Hypocrites, the lot of them. Southern Baptists and evangelism are why I am an atheist.

My grandfather always said of Baptists, "they're Methodists who stopped drinking".

To see an example of the ugliness of Southern Baptists, this is a good article (one of many since their sexual scandals are coming out) - excerpt:

"Most of my professors had issues with this triumphal vision. The SBC had been created, they told me, so that enslavers could be missionaries, and the seminary’s founders had been slave owners. The SBC had defended slavery and Jim Crow segregation and opposed the Civil Rights Movement."

I remember when the Southern Baptists held their huge convention in my city many years back. It was reported in the newspapers that the adult entertainment venues loved it because they raked in more money during that convention than at any other time. Baptist men are whores when they're out on their own & away from their frigid wives.

They're the quintessential Trump supporters. That's all you need to know.

r165 do you have firsthand experience?

Someone above asking about First and Second Baptist churches. At one level it just means one was the first founded in the town and one was the second one founded. Baptists used to be very careful about names of their churches, no saints that’s Catholic. (Although I seen Black Baptist churches named after the saints but only ones mentioned in the Bible, eg the Apostles mostly. But Black Baptist culture is somewhat different from white Baptist culture and traditions. Better in my view.). Why a second Baptist church would be founded would depend on the history of the place. It could simply be there were so many Baptists in town that a second was needed and the first cooperated and help found the second, or it could have been a disagreement that led to the founding. One needs to know the history. One reason could be class distinctions but again not always.

r2, you finally got your answer at r172

Speaking of Baptist church names in the South. I am a non-Baptist Southerner by birth and am an outside observer. Black Baptist churches sometimes have OT names and I am not enough of an insider to know why. I assume it has something to do with liberation and freedom since those are themes in the Black Baptist tradition. Given the origins in a spiritual resistance to slavery that would make sense. Something lacking in the slave defending Southern Baptist tradition. Names like Mt Moriah Baptist or Zion Baptist. Perhaps someone who knows more can tell me. Most white Baptist churches in the old days were named after the town but some took fancier names like Grace Baptist or Trinity Baptist. The latter in my opinion were a little pretentious as if they wanted you to think they were Episcopalian. Now a days newer hip white Baptist churches hide their affiliation and don’t put it in the name. They even bury it on their website. And they use weird names like “Recovery Church” or “Wellspring Church” or some such shit.

Creepy thing about the huge Baptist churches I know about in Houston is the fact that they discourage their flock from associating socially with non-Baptists by having everything they need like a movie theater, bowling alley, Starbucks like coffee shops, daycare, etc on church grounds. All social activities are encouraged at the church. I know one lady who quit one when the pastor started telling his flock what they should and should not watch on tv.

When did megachurches become a thing?

When grifters realized how easy it really was to part fools from their money.

R172 did not answer my question. I know about their names and the racial angle, which isn't relevant in this case. I want to know about the theological and social differences between the two. Why, for example, did Ted Cruz join First Baptist when he's the most famous graduate of Second Baptist's school? Both churches are with a mile if one another in a very wealthy white area if town. What do congregants think of one another? If I know anything about Baptists it's that they are hateful, judgmental bitches. So what's the beef between these two churches? There has to be something.

No one here is going to know that unless they are members or it’s been written up in the press R2 or they know people in the churches.

What about us!!!!!!

We wash your stinky feet in church.

I thought that was a Free Will Baptist feature r180?

Could be, but the Primitives do it too.

Roman Catholics wash feet once a year too (Saturday before Easter). I think it's disgusting.

[quote]When the SBC went further right-wing, many Southern Baptists left and their churches became independent Baptist churches.

The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship split from the SBC over the ordination of women and is "open and affirming" to LGBT members.

Thanks r184

Of interest:

r184 I'm still wary of any Baptist church's true thoughts about LGBTQ.

When the huge Southern Baptist Convention comes to my city the strip clubs, pornaterias, and prostitution enterprises do their best business. In fact the whore mongers have to bring in girls (and boys) from out of town to keep all the increased customers satisfied.

The seepage of Pentecostalism in some Baptist settings is seen as a distortion of justification by faith and much too centered on emotional, subjective and often irrational focus on "feelings" and the conviction that a personal relationship with Jesus (ha) the transcends church doctrine as the breaking of the first and second commandments.

Kind of related to r189: I am morbidly fascinated by the snake handling churches.

Perhaps not surprisingly, George Went Hensley, the founder of the snake handling "movement," was illiterate.

How he died:

[quote]In early July 1955, Hensley began a series of meetings near Altha, Florida. He conducted the meetings without snakes for three weeks, before procuring a 5-foot (1.5 m) snake and bringing it to a Sunday afternoon service on July 24. Several dozen people gathered at an abandoned blacksmith shop for the observance. During the service, Hensley loudly delivered a sermon on the topic of faith. He removed the snake from the lard can in which it was stored, wrapped it around his neck, and rubbed it on his face. He walked around the audience while preaching and then returned the snake to the can. As he placed the snake into the can, it bit him on his wrist. After a few minutes, Hensley became visibly ill, experiencing severe pain, a discolored arm, and hematemesis. He refused medical attention, although he remained in pain and was urged to seek treatment both by congregants and the Calhoun County Sheriff. One eyewitness claimed that Hensley attributed his suffering to the congregation's lack of faith, although his wife Sally stated that she believed it was the will of God. Hensley died early the next morning. Calhoun County Judge Hannah Gaskin ruled his death a suicide.

The quality isn't great, but I enjoyed this documentary about a Pentecostal church in Appalachia.

My own family, from the hollows of Kentucky, was split down the middle between Pentecostals and Free Will Baptists.

My ex was Southern Baptist-raised (I'm cradle Catholic) — He definitely seemed a lot less restrained than me, in just about every way. I think perhaps a strict upbringing via religion really manifests the wild child in some. He was handsome and a nice guy, but he was an alcoholic with serious issues. It's a sad, long story.

r192 a distant family friend is a pastor in a Baptist congregation (non-SBC), and two of his four children are serving lengthy prison sentences for various and sundry offenses.

R10, and so many of them have that mixture of Bohemian and preppy look that can be damn sexy. Their wives are so lucky to have unfiltered access to some of those hotties. Yeah, they will be batshit crazy, but oh so hot, when young, dumb, and full of cum.

OP, cut the crap. You’re a total bottom looking for Southern Baptist cock.

I went to Southern Baptist camp a couple times during the summer when I was a teenager. We had this youth minister who looked like Sam Elliott in Lifeguard and he was in charge of us. I went into our cabin to get something and he walks out of the bathroom in a towel and drops it while talking to me. I froze because I couldn't believe that he was doing this, and I was afraid that he could tell that I was gay. I remember running out of there in a panic. I couldn't even look at him for the rest of the week.

r196 "Dear Penthouse Forum ..."

He was a creep r196. That said, I was slut and would have gone for it.

They’re attached to their mothers.

They make great banana pudding! Seriously!

R42 that is horrifying.

One thing I’ve noticed about ALL Baptists is that there’s a real trashiness about them. Money with no education and a chip on their shoulders.

They talk about food alot and get EXCiITED about potluck dinners. They call other men 'brother' all the time. They are serial FARTERS.

[quote]One thing I’ve noticed about ALL Baptists is that there’s a real trashiness about them.

As I think back on all the Baptists I've known in my life, I'd say this is spot on. Even the educated ones.