Wonder Woman - Gay Icon

who

I follow Lynda Carter on Twitter.

I love her: she's smart, funny, politically engaged. (And still gorgeous.)

And she LOVES her LGBT followers. She totally gets her gay icon status and has fun with it.

Gal Gadot is so lifeless. Lynda made the character iconic.

A magic lasso that makes people tell the truth

An invisible plane

A tiara

Bullet deflecting braclets

A stylish costume that's also patriotic

What more do you need to become a gay icon?!?! The gay community identified with Wonder Woman even back in the 50s and 60s. However, Linda Carter just amplified things in the 70s by becoming the living embodiment of WW.

[Quote] Has Gal's version struck a chord within LGBT+ circles? I haven't seen much evidence of it, if it has...

I think Gal did for a time with lesbian fans until WW84 came out. They really didn't like Steve being brought back.

[Quote] What's your fave version/fave story or connection to the character?

I actually didn't mind the Superman/Wonder Woman comics. But hell would probably freeze over before a live action version happened.

Who did she make lez-lez with? Batwoman?

I also liked the pairing with Superman. Of course it shouldn't be permanent but come on, these two gorgeous and powerful heroes would not be prim monogamists, and given their similarities in outlook/personality and unique status as virtual/literal gods, it seems inevitable that they'd hook up at some point. Clark should always wind up with Lois but they should explore Diana's sexuality more, let her play the field and date different men and women. I would think the whole fanbase, male, female, straight or not, would enjoy seeing that.

I don't mind the idea, but the execution and timing were off.

I didn't enjoy the New52 costume or reboot at all - Brian Azzarello saddling her with a father in Zeus was just plain wrong - and I didn't like Supes' new suit either, so that killed my interest quite a bit. And DC were so adamant about pushing the New52 as the new status quo, in animation and merch, regardless of its shortcomings, so that just rubbed me the wrong way.

If there had been a time in the Bronze age were they dated, I think that would have been cool. Classic costumes, upbeat iterations....that could have worked.

R6 Not Batwoman, no. Several Amazons on the island before she meets Steve, and then there were several lez-ish character rewrites - Etta Candy and Barbara Minerva aka Cheetah - that might have gone that way but didn't because after Rucka left the WW book following Rebirth, DC quietly shelved her bisexuality and kept her with Steve.

I personally loved the Perez's work in the book, particularly when he took time to show Diana seeing the influence of drugs and depression on women and girls. "Chalk Drawings" is really heartbreaking and special.

Honestly, if they really wanted to shake things up and appeal to a younger audience she would be in a polyamorous relationship with a man and another woman. It would be a great homage to her creator and his muses.

How would you sell that to kids ? LOL

As it is, she barely gets to have sex ever in the comics, because "the ideal woman is a virgin" or such shit.

....meanwhile in WW84 she rapes the body of the man Steve's resurrected spirit possesses....yeesh.

R10, you think comic books are for kids?

How old are you?

Sure they're for adults mostly nowadays - and graphic as hell about violence and rape etc - but they still have to be marketable to kids unless released under an 18+ label or something.

Hey, I'd buy that WW book, but I don't know how DC would handle the controversy.

They made Tim Drake bisexual last year and Jon Kent bi or gay as well and some are still calling it woke propaganda and up in arms.

[quote] Who did she make lez-lez with? Batwoman?

Aunt Harriet.

My favorite will always be her mod period when she abandoned her super powers.

[Quote] Clark should always wind up with Lois

Why?

[Quote] They made Tim Drake bisexual last year and Jon Kent bi or gay as well and some are still calling it woke propaganda and up in arms

And in typical DL fashion Jon dating an Asian with pink hair is just the worst lol

I liked it when the comic book shifted to the Earth 2, WW2-era to parallel Season One of the Lynda Carter TV series.

I hated how when they gave her pants and a top with straps - for the sake of her dignity of course - her breasts suspiciously got bigger.

This was my favorite issue of Wonder Woman from my childhood. Doctor Cyber, a villain from Diana’s I-Ching days, returns to try and steal WW’s face! It creeped me out as a kid.

This was another favorite of mine as a kid - Hippolyta journeys to Man’s World to masquerade as her daughter in order to save her.

Hippolyta as WW was also the one (and maybe only) thing I liked during John Byrne’s stint on Wonder Woman.

The original Wonder Woman created by Charles Moulton was inspired by his wife, Elizabeth, and their lover, Olive.

Did he get spanked by them all the time?

There was a lot about getting tied up and spanking in those earlier comics...

...which has apparently inspired some fan art in the years since *ahem*

WW’s gay fans don’t want to see her getting spanked in the ass. We want to see Lyle Waggoner getting spanked in the ass.

As r2 mentioned, Lynda has garnered a lot of new fans on Twitter who weren't even born when the show was on. She's fiercely liberal and does indeed love the LGB.

Heather Thomas and Lydia Cornell are two other smart actresses of the same era who have interesting Twitter accounts, but nobody else is Lynda.

I loved how George Perez made a point of including a gay character in the books in the form of Mindy Meyer's brother.

He didn't get to do much but having him in the background at least included the community at time when gay characters weren't really in comics.

...when DID DC Comics first include a gay character? Was it Maggie Sawyer in Superman?

where's the t? r24

The book with the Superman/Wonder Woman/Lois Lane threeway wasn't bad as that sort of thing goes

No bueno R27

To be honest, I kinda prefer her bisexual twin brother Jason, who's in a relationship with a man. I want more stories with him.

[quote]I personally loved the Perez's work in the book, particularly when he took time to show Diana seeing the influence of drugs and depression on women and girls.

I loved that Pérez run. It was easy to believe this was the best the character and her supporting cast had ever been written, which is something that was being said at the time by people who went much further back than I did. I could only say it blew away any prior WW of my experience. He made it an exciting title. And of course, besides the writing, there were those amazingly detailed, painstaking panels for which Pérez was legendary. He could put so many faces and bodies in a space and they'd all have a distinct attitude.

What stays in my mind most is the "Who Killed Myndi Mayer?" issue.

^^ yup totally.

The book lost so much when he stopped doing the art after the 2nd year. They severely struggled to find anyone decent for a few years there. One guy was awful. It got better closer to issue 50.

Tell me the deal about Jason please - what's his origin?

George Perez was a tough act to follow so I sympathized with the artist (Chris Marrinan) but he was all wrong for WW.

R14 Those powerless issue are epic - I loved when she teamed up with Catwoman, who was wearing her short lived "pirate costume". The story with Dr Cyper was also a great read. What I hated was the quick return to the costumed WW - No planing, rushed story and very little explanation.

Did any of you dress up as WW?

R34 I never felt the need but I did throw the Isis headband on a few times a couple of years before the WW show

[quote] Did any of you dress up as WW?

I did the Diana Prince spin in many a secluded stairwell in the late 70s…but alas nothing came of it.

Loved this!

R33, the non super powered WW was disastrous for National, the books dropped so significantly that it might have been canceled. So DC rushed WW back into her costume, her lasso, her powers and her Invisible Plane. I guess it worked, because WW comics are still published, and a couple of years later, WW was a Prime Time show. I do share your love of the Catwoman stories.

A spin compilation video

She put on a few pounds after Covid.

Denny O'Neil did a lot of great things in comics, such as the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow issues and The Question, and he was one of the all-time Batman writers. For Marvel, I don't think his Daredevil stint (between Frank Miller's two runs) gets enough credit. He was one of the earliest to try to make even superhero comics more grown up than they had been before, with real-world issues and more sophisticated dialogue.

But yeah, he and Sekowsky took a big swing and whiffed on the de-powered Wonder Woman. The idea wasn't inherently bad (at least as a different direction for a period of time), but the execution left much to be desired. O'Neil later expressed embarrassment that he had given Diana's elderly Chinese mentor the name "I Ching," and his handling of the feminism of that era was equally naïve. (Gloria Steinem panned it.) The biggest takeaway was that he and Sekowsky had a thing for Emma Peel on The Avengers.

However, the WW title had a lot of low points over the years, and at least people still remember and talk about that one. It was daring.

The soft relaunch that followed DC's time jump "One Year Later" was one of them. They fired/parted ways with the brilliant Greg Rucka....in order to bring in Allan Heinberg (sp?) to....make world famous ambassador Princess Diana into a super spy like she was in the 70s? Huh?

Gail Simone was brought in to do damage control less than a year later, but she spent half her time trying to clean up the mess and the other half with somewhat weird ideas (Diana is close friends with albino gorillas? She's dating a guy just because she's baby crazy?)

Then came Brian Azzarello's New52 reboot, and Diana being Zeus' daughter aaaaand yeah....nothing's quite been the same since.

Dick Giordano and Sekowsky were such an amazing under-rated artists. Diana was absolute beautiful and he had a real feel for the character. I also think that it was very hard to license and merchandise a powerless woman. I don't know of ANYTHING that was produced during that era. Honestly, I loved those issues.

Lynda Carter was the best.

Their art was definitely pretty then, r43. It's a shame she lost her trademark elements during that era.

Didn't Dr Cyber debut then? There were a lot of scarred "formerly beautiful" women running around comics at the time then. Weird trend.

r45 Cyber was a great villain for Diana - Very "James Bond" type of stories. So many different elements. When the powerless Wonder Woman appeared in other comics at the time like, Superman, Justice League, or Brave & Bold - The writers never got it right.

I really like Nicola Scott's interpretation of Wonder Woman. She keeps the classic elements of the costume, I don't care for wild variations of the costume like pants, silver instead of gold, etc. I just don't think the classic costume should be altered too much. One thing I love is how Scott uses more of an eagle chestplate rather than the "W" chestplate. I've always preferred the eagle.

Nicola Scott draws Wonder Woman through her various eras....

[quote]One thing I love is how Scott uses more of an eagle chestplate rather than the "W" chestplate

The W chestplate was only introduced in the early 80s so DC would have a symbol that was recognizable like the Superman crest or the Batman logo. More importantly, they could trademark the W chestplate and then license it to merchandisers. DC admitted at the time that was why they were doing it.

I was about 6 when the powerless era started. My big brother shared his w me. I found it very relatable compared to her Amazon persona.

I like the W chest plate. I like the versions that combine the eagle and W into one image. The eagle chestplate is fine, except I hate when it's drawn like two perfect circles encompassing her breasts. That just looks stupid, uncomfortable, and vaguely sexist, like a coconut bra on a cartoon mermaid.

Depowering female superheroes is a longstanding sexist trope. Wonder Woman is at her best when she's got the classic costume, a sword and armorial elements like a true warrior, and innate super powers that rival Superman's. If you want to see a super heroine with no powers relying on her wits and martial arts training, try Batgirl. That ain't Wonder Woman.

[quote]That just looks stupid, uncomfortable, and vaguely sexist, like a coconut bra on a cartoon mermaid.

Wonder Woman's costumes have always been sexist -- made by males for males.

You don't see major male superheroes running around in costumes with as much exposed skin as female superheros display, especially Wonder Woman.

Denny O’Neil came back in 2011 for a one shot “retrospective” of Diana Prince during her Emma Peel days. This review didn’t care too much for it. Personally I am not a fan of the artwork.

I agree with r43 about artist Mike Sekowsky (who as I recall also took over writing duties from O’Neil). A lot of people hate his artwork in JLA but I loved his stint on WW.

And I agree that Cyber was WW’s best nemesis as a James Bond-type villain. I hated when they brought her back in the 80s with a terrible purple outfit (as drawn by Don Heck, possibly the worst WW artist of all time.)

Yes I know DC introduced the WW chestplate solely for marketing purposes but I've always thought it looked too commercial. The eagle has more of a classic feel, and the rounded wings version is actually my favorite. George Perez did a great rendition of it, which you can see at the link. I like the WW/eagle hybrid that's been used in recent years, too.

I prefer the eagle chest plate to the W chest plate too. I also thought some of the artists had trouble with drawing the W template or were too free with their interpretation of it (Jill Thompson and Paris Cullens come to mind).

I prefer the eagle-free =WW= design personally. The eagle looks weird. Either it's feathery, or just a bunch of circles and lines which, as r51 pointed out, looks stupid and childish. And sometimes they give it a "tail" down the middle of her torso, which is weird, like a big arrow or something.

Perez and Jimenez really drew that =WW= emblem perfectly.

God, I HATED the silver emblem and choker collar look that Jim Lee drew for the new52. And then there was his leather jacket look with the pants, which also sucked. He's zero for two.

I also hated Jim Lee's costume. It sucked. Didn't like the John Byrne one either with the giant WW and huge belt with the two stars. I think he was just lazy and didn't want to draw the costume the correct way.

The eagle breastplate and the invisible jet! Batman and Steve Trevor get rescued!

That intro, and Paul Dini's Triumverate of Terror! main episode are two highlights of Batman: Brave and the Bold, for sure.

Shame we haven't seen a Wonder Woman show yet.

A Wonder Woman cartoon would be great.

Just don't fuck up the costume!

[Quote] Lynda Carter was the best.

It's not like there's a lot to choose from.

Didn't Gail Simone introduce a gay male character? Jason of Jason and the Argonauts or something? He had a lion mask I think...

[quote]Didn't Gail Simone introduce a gay male character? Jason of Jason and the Argonauts or something? He had a lion mask I think...

Wasn't it Achilles?

r54 That "art" is absolutely awful. Visually, "The New Wonder Woman" is pretty stunning.

Yes, Achilles! That's the one.

There was a great two parter in the 70s in which WW befriends an aging singer hooked on booze and pills. I wish the Lynda Carter series could have adapted this one. They could have cast Lorna Luft or someone as the boozy singer!

[quote]They could have cast Lorna Luft or someone as the boozy singer!

Why shettle for shecond besht?

I have wondered why they gave her a shield in recent years. She has her bracelets that deflect bullets so the shield is unneeded.

It's the push from DC (Dan DiDio/Geoff Johns) to portray her as "badass". Her only value to them seems to be as a hot warrior.

Nevermind that her weapons were always defensive and used to undo war (deflecting bullets, controlling someone and forcing them to speak honestly and see things clearly).

It takes too much effort to tell a story where she diffuses tensions. Easier to show her slicing and dicing.

and don't get me started on all these damn Wondergirls, Nubia's, and 3 rate Wonder Women..

Umm . . . hello!

I could tolerate Artemis because of her wicked ponytail and the fact that she would be written as badass and overly tough, sparing Diana....but Nubia? And now Yara Flor?

I don't see how crowding Diana's book with characters similar to her makes her stronger or more interesting.

r72. Was that Wonder Woman movie kinda a combo of the powerless WW & the 40's comic version? The whole movie was just stupid and reminds me of the current "superhero" reinventing a concept that is currently going on - White Super? No, we are gonna do a black Superman! WTF?

The 1974 Cathy Lee Crosby movie was a gigantic disappointment to this fan simply because it was false advertising.

I expected to see Wonder Woman there and this had no connection to the comic book super hero aside from the name. Might as well have been called Magnificent Maid.

I guess the story in and of itself was OK. I watched the entire movie looking for any slight connection to the Wonder Woman I knew and there was none.

So, a year later when they come out with the Lynda Carter version of Wonder Woman, I was excited. And boy, did they did they get this one right. More than made up with the disappointment of the 1974 movie.

One of the few good things about the Cathy Lee Crosby version was that it had big dicked Andrew Prine as one of its villains. I also liked the renegade Amazon from The Price Is Right. She had masterful bitchface.

So bizarre that the 2017 film omitted the Tournament and Diana winning her title. Such a beautiful origin story moment. But then, they also left it out of the animated Justice League series.

Sad that Carter's show is the only one to feature the real origin.

Whoops - I forgot about the WW animated film starring Keri Russell. The tournament was in there...

[Quote] White Super? No, we are gonna do a black Superman! WTF?

Oh heaven forbid.

R79 and a Latina Batgirl - Never to see the light of day. And the AWFUL Black Canary in BIRDS OF PREY (AND THE FANTABULOUS EMANCIPATION OF ONE HARLEY QUINN). Fucking horrible

[Quote] and a Latina Batgirl - Never to see the light of day. And the AWFUL Black Canary in BIRDS OF PREY (AND THE FANTABULOUS EMANCIPATION OF ONE HARLEY QUINN). Fucking horrible

And suddenly Etta Candy is Black - Like she suddenly became BLACK! LOL

[quote] So bizarre that the 2017 film omitted the Tournament and Diana winning her title. Such a beautiful origin story moment. But then, they also left it out of the animated Justice League series. Sad that Carter's show is the only one to feature the real origin.

The Lynda Carter WW origin story made this gayling swoon with excitement!

Bullets & Bracelets! And Lyle Waggoner’s bare chest!

I guess they didn't have time for the big tournament for a two-hour film. Too bad, because that's always been part of WW's origin story. It was still a great film, though.

Etta is now a black lesbian too, I think, since Rebirth.

I miss blondish Etta married to Steve.

Why would a man who was attracted to men have a female as a heroine?

And stupid question of the day goes to.....

Everything is so FUCKING convoluted - I miss Donna Troy, their original Wonder Girl.

WHO IS DONNA TROY?

R89 Xactly

Speaking of convoluted...yikes that Troia costume! With the frilly edges and the colors and the mesh on her gauntlets...

But I wholeheartedly agree...DC has messed things up pretty badly in the last 20 years with the reboots. Nobody can fall in love with these characters if they continually have their status quo upended.

It's pretty amazing when you think about it that the original run of Diana's books was basically one long continual storyline until the 80s...and then the Perez reboot lasted what? 30 years? Granted I think the Perez era gelled much better than what came before it. Obviously Phil Jimenez did great stuff, but so did Eric Luke and Greg Rucka. There were some dips but you can actually read and follow what happens post-Perez and it doesn't shift too wildly, except with regards to her supporting cast which is constantly in flux.

Did any of you watch the David E Kelly Wonder Woman pilot? It's pretty messed up. Diana assaults people while interrogating them. Veronica Cale is British for some reason. And Diana sells her own merch, and goes by the name Diana Themyscira...but also hides out in an apartment like a plain jane. So odd.

And the costume looked pretty cheap too, in spite of the design(s) being okay.

r92 that was a cheap-looking costume, like something from a Halloween store. I watched a bootleg of the pilot years ago and it sucked, it was a good thing it was never picked up for a series.

r91 you have a great point. DC's continuity has been tinkered with so much over the past several years, constant reboots etc. It's all so convoluted now and nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on anymore.

r93 DC. has done really strange shit - Lois Lanes hair went from black to brown, the Etta Candy thing, all these fucking kids of Superman & Batman, Mary Marvel - from hero to villain, and back to a hero again. The multiple origins of Powergirl, and I have NO idea where the JSA is and who is even alive anymore. Hawkman and Hawkgil? Whatever happened to Karter Hall and his wife? I'm just lost.. How many Robin's have there been and where the hell are they and why do their origins change?

Never saw the David E Kelly pilot. I didn't read the leaked script that Joss Whedon wrote either. Apparently that was really terrible too.

But i still would have liked to see Megan Gale as WW. It was a small part, but she was pretty badass in Mad Max.

She might have been good. ^

WW is a really hard part to cast though. Can't be too thin, too big, too intense, too friendly, too sexy....

Lynda Carter was needlessly thin but perfect in virtually every other respect. I wish she'd had better material. If they'd stayed in WWII for another season, maybe featured more comic villains and continued to use the Amazons, the show would have been so much better.

R94 Mary Marvel became a villainess? Huh?

DC used to do Secret Files one shots detailing what happened in a character's life, to catch up new readers or old readers on recent developments...because since the 80s Crisis, everything was somewhat linear, so you could do that. A reader could make sense of it. Now, with Flashpoint, New52, Rebirth, Death Metal or whatever and the whole Future State thingy (did that even happen?) it's been a constant stream of "reality was upended!!" events that just can't be understood. Its exhausting to even think about.

Hopefully DC just gives all their books a few stable years and lets writers develop ideas slowly, so they can build up the trust of the readers again.

It’s all about Lynda Carter (the CBS/70s era)!

[Quote] DC. has done really strange shit - Lois Lanes hair went from black to brown, the Etta Candy thing, all these fucking kids of Superman & Batman, Mary Marvel - from hero to villain, and back to a hero again.

They also seem to have something against red heads.

Lois was practically a redhead in the 90s. Check the Wedding Album.

I didn't know that. I'm used to Lois being a brunette, with Amy Adams being the exception. Bonus points if she’s a ringer for Margot.

I don't understand why they don't focus on a good storyline? What kind of writer suddenly decides, "So Lois Lane? Now Lois changes her hair color..." Question - Is Steve Trevor alive?I remember he suddenly became much older than WW and was hooking up with Etta Candy, before she suddenly turned into a lesbian black woman..

Ok. This is easy.

The original continuity of WW ended just before Crisis on Infinite Earths, with Steve and Diana marrying on Mount Olympus. Then, in Crisis, Diana was devolved back into clay, The End.

In Perez's new version of the mythology, which immediately followed, Steve is an older man (40s/50s?) who crashes on Paradise Islsnd and Disna has no attraction to him that is sexual. He's just the first man she meets, and later, we learn that his mother Diana Rockwell Trevor crashed onto the island years earlier and gave her life in battle to save the Amazons from the monsters bellow Paradise Island, who were breaking loose and attacking. Queen Hippolyta named her child Diana in honor of this brave woman. Diana and Steve are linked that way, and yes, he falls in love with Etta. Eventually, it is revealed that they were married off-panel (thanks to Phil Jimenez, who brought them back into the narrative of the book). Years later, DC sorta wraps up this continuity with Flashpoint and there's no big final bow for WW and her characters, as there was pre-Crisis.

Then, in the Rebirth era, thanks to the popularity of the 2017 movie, everything is reset (following the messy New52era) and Steve is once again a hunky young stud who Diana falls in love with. And Etta is black and lesbian. That's where we are now.

I believe Perez’ older version of Steve Trevor was based on actor Ed Harris (who was still very hot at the time).

r103. Got it - Has the current WW been around since the 40's like in the movie? Or is she only contemporary? IS Steve Trevor from the past or just a current real age love interests for Diana?

The current WW in the comics is only contemporary. I prefer the immortal WW who's been around for 100 years, like in the movie.

r105, the current comics continuity is only a few years old, so there's no connection to the Perez stuff. Think of it like a reboot of a TV show - same premise, but with new takes on the characters, like Diana being openly bi and having a different costume, etc.

The current Diana (with the "warrior skirt" look Gal Gadot wore in the movie as well) arrives in the Man's World of today. She's never been in World War 1 or 2...and Steve wasn't de-aged or anything. He's just a young guy, same as she's a young woman. Fresh start.

Fun Fact: The Perez Diana also entered into the then-contemporary world of the 80s having never been in World War 1 or 2. Buuuuuut, flash forward about 8 or so years of that run and DC COMICS decided they didn't like that, and wanted Wonder Woman to have existed in WWII and been a part of the Justice Society. So they decided to send Queen Hippolyta back in time to WWII to be the Wonder Woman of that era and a JSA member. Readers both loved and hated the retroactive continuity. This all went down while Diana was "dead" and up on Mount Olympus as the Goddess of Truth, during the run written and illustrated by John Byrne. Hippolyta ended up coming back to the contemporary times and Diana ended up descending from Mount Olympus to be Wonder Woman again and then...there were two active Wonder Women.

Writer artist Phil Jimenez addressed this during his run, with mother and daughter squabbling over their duties, Diana being upset at her mother honing in on her gig, and accusing her of abandoning her role as monarch. Issues later, during the pointless Our Worlds At War event, Hippolyta was killed saving Earth from destruction, and Diana was left to grieve and hate herself for having wasted their last days together arguing. It was beautifully written, very, very painful and true-to-life...and stupid at the same time because killing Hippolyta was just a stunt DC cooked up to make their annual event seem "important".

Hippolyta eventually came back to life of course, but it took years.

Does the NEW current WW have ANY connection with, Wondergirl Donna Troy? Is there a Drusilla? That blonde Wonder Girl who used to wear a black wig? (gawd). IS there still a Troia?

Oh jesus I can't even guess about Wonder Girl. Talk about convoluted!!!

But here's what little I know.

The original Wonder Girl concept was accidental. DC was telling stories with kid sidekicks and baby versions of their popular characters, so Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot all interacted...even though writers were never clear on whether they were all younger versions of Diana or independent characters, separate from her. The Teen Titans concept was also around at the time, and took off a bit, so Wonder Girl there was clearly becoming her own person. They called her Donna Troy, and said (I think) that she was a baby rescued by WW in a house fire, that was then brought to Paradise and trained by the Amazons.

Perez worked on the Teen Titans book before Crisis, and it was really successful...so after Crisis supposedly rebooted everything, DC still wanted to keep the Titans going without restarting them much and confusing things. I didn't read this stuff, so I'm going off what I read online here.

Bottom line was, Donna Troy, aka Wonder Girl became Troia, and had that short haircut and black outfit with red and blue and gold accents. In spite of the fact that Wonder Girl should have logically come *AFTER* Wonder Woman, in the Post-Crisis timeline Diana was entering Man's World for the first time in the then-contemporary 80s...and she was new. No one knew who she was. And yet...Donna Troy/Troia existed somehow. So...yeah. That was weird. There are a few Perez issues where they meet face-to-face and the discrepancy is kind of explained away, but it confused the heck out of me so I just ignored it.

Bottom line is - Donna is one of the most confusing characters ever because she's been killed like a dozen times and brought back with different origins and then killed. In the Perez era, I believe she's supposed to be a literal mirror image of Diana, created by an old Amazon witch (why there even IS an Amazon witch I have no clue, as they're all supposed to be ageless, right?) named Magala, who frees young Diana's reflection from a mirror one day so the young Princess will have a playmate on the island. Yeeeaaaah.

Anyway, in the 90s, during the Byrne run, Cassandra Sandsmark is introduced. She's pretty much a copy of Perez's character Vanessa Kapatelis but without the narrative baggage. Anyway, she worships Diana and wants to be like her, so she steals the gauntlet of Atlas and the sandals of Hermes, which give her strength and enable her to fly. She wears a black wig to cover her blonde hair, so she'll look more like WW and goes out to fights crime. Diana at first says no, but then softens and agrees to train her. She becomes the "modern" Wonder Girl, eventually losing the black wig and rocking the blonde hair and red outfit look. She gets into a relationship with Conner Kent, aka Superboy.

In the meantime, Donna continues to get killed and resurrected. She drops the Troia name and just goes by Donna Troy.

Cue the New52 reboot, which brought back Cassie as Wonder Girl but changed her powers or personality or something. I don't know. Look that one up yourself LOL.

At present, post-Rebirth, they seem to have de-aged Cassie a bit (she looks about 14) and gone with a simple jeans and hoodie style costume. Cassie is still pretty popular as Wonder Girl but fans are pissed she has been sidelined and rewritten in recent times.

It looks like Donna Troy is still around, and fought in the VERY recent event Trial of the Amazons, during which Queen Hippolyta died and the remaining Amazons battle for the crown, including Donna, Artemis, Diana and long-forgotten Amazon Nubia, who appeared in the 70s, was forgotten and now is being brought back.

OH - and there's Yara Flor, the NEW Wonder Girl, introduced like two years ago. She's Brazilian and there's some link to the Amazon rainforest there but...don't ask me what it is. Her solo series was cut short, bizarrely and the announced television spin-off was axed. She got a lot of press and big push right out the gate before anyone even knew who she was as a character. Now, she's in a supporting role it seems.

^WHO IS DONNA TROY?

Can anyone summarize the plot of the Joss Whedon script?

Wonder Girl/Donna Troy has always been a giant headache and I've always just ignored it. I've never really cared for the character.

R113 are you r108?

If so I hope you cared about my attempt to explain it all...

I like Donna in the Teen Titans. Great Nick Card art and she was the female part of the team and actually the strongest member. The character went off the deep end and lost all direction. I wish DC would just simplify things. A nice soft re-boot. I even hat the fact that Lois & Clark are married with kids.

She was hardly a feminist Icon. She was an immortal Princess who, with one look of a man, gave up her life to go fight in world war ii.

Thank you r110. Very thorough write-up. Much appreciated.

My head is spinning. And I thought it was confusing keeping up with three versions of Robin!

At some point, I'd love for you to explain the many different versions of the Legion of Super-Heroes, my all-time favorite super-hero group that was destroyed by countless revisions and reboots.

r110 is right. Donna Troy was a copy of young Diana who was supposed to just fade away but she instead inherited a tragic life. In Perez's story, she loses her husband and child, and she goes through hundreds of deaths and rebirths. At one point she becomes she serves the Titans of myth as Troia. Eventually, the world forgets Donna Troy until Wonder Woman with the help of Wally West helps her rebuild her life and memories. Rather than be a copy of Diana she becomes her own person. Cassandra takes the gauntlet and wings sandals. but she eventually meets Zeus himself and begs him to give her superpowers just like Diana. He does but makes it so her mother can take them away with a word. Eventually, it comes out that Zeus is her father I believe?

The early 80s reboot from Roy Thomas and Gene Colan was a huge disappointment. I was hopeful having enjoyed Thomas’ work in All Star Squadron but other than introducing the WW chest plate, his stories on Wonder Woman were dull and uninspired. Gene Colan was all wrong for Wonder Woman too.

r119

He introduced Lyta aka Fury during his run

No problem r117. And yes, Zeus was her Daddy.

After Byrne introduced Cassie, there wasn't really an answer as to who her father was. Later, during the Jimenez run, there were a series of back-up stories that chronicled Cassie finally tracking down her birth father. He was some guy in an apartment and not especially remarkable. It was a sombre, "I don't need him, my single parent is enough" type tale. I do remember that the art was bizarre. Cassie looked about 8 years old, in spite of being 16. It was weird. Anyhow, later still, writer Greg Rucka did a big reveal at the end of a long story involving Diana and Medusa that....taaadaaaa!...Zeus was actually Cassie's father all along! Hence, why he agreed to give Cassie permanent powers (I'd forgotten about that, r118, thanks) several years prior. He did it because he'd had (another) affair with a mortal - Cassie's mom Helena - and made her keep it a secret basically (I think).

Sadly, that twist reveal was only co-opted by Brian Azzarello essentially when he rebooted Wonder Woman at the start of the New52. He seemingly decided it wasn't cool enough for Diana to have no father at all, and created the shock twist that Hippolyta had had an affair with Zeus and became pregnant with Diana...but lied and told her the "sculpted from clay" origin so she wouldn't ever know she was a demigoddess. Which, of course, makes no sense because HELLO Diana has powers and you guys already worship the Gods and Goddesses, so what difference does it make?

So fans have accused him of giving Cassie's origin over to Diana with no real benefit. Diana constantly had stories involving the gods and goddesses and didn't really need to be related to them for there to be stakes. Rucka purposely made Diana known as Athena's Champion during his run, which further roped her into the Olympians power struggles, so Azz rebooting everything and saying she's his daughter mere months later just spat in the face of the original, beloved origin without achieving much by way of linking her to the Gods.

I haven't read anything about Diana and Zeus as a daughter/father duo and don't want to, thank you very much. Even the 2017 movie shied away from it, but sadly, the Daddy Zeus twist appears to be sticking. (For the record, Rucka came back to write Wonder Woman Rebirth after the New52 continuity crashed and burned, and wanted very much to do away with the Daddy Zeus shit and return to the sculpted from clay origin, but DC wasn't entirely on-board, so Rebirth avoids the subject, focusing more on the romance between Steve and Diana and her relationship with the Cheetah and staying vague about Diana's birth.)

I don't think Byrne ever intended for Zeus to be Cassie's Dad and just honestly wrote him as being "impressed with her spirit" enough to grant her special powers full-time as a blessing. So him as her Dad is retroactive continuity on Rucka's part, invalidating Jimenez's backup story, and yet still a very interesting twist that I think should have stayed with Cassie.

I have ZERO knowledge of the Legion of Superheroes so I can't help you there - sorry! But there are wiki pages devoted to comics history and probably a bunch of YouTube videos too so check those out.

Back to Donna, as r118 pointed out, prior to meeting Diana in the 80s for the first time, Donna's story was so developed (having begun pre-Crisis and then carried over because of the popularity of the Teen Titans book) that she'd already married a much older professor named Terry and had a son by him. And then had both of them DIE. And THEN met Diana/WW during the Perez run Post-Crisis. It's...so weird. Donna had basically already lived 40 years worth of shit while Diana was still learning English and being new to Man's World and seeming about 21.

Fans hated the Terry Long (I think that was his name) relationship because he was a older man sexing up Wonder *Girl* and marrying her and having a kid with her. People even said it reflected badly on (the late great) George Perez, who was vocal about loving Donna. I don't know if that means it was a self-insert story idea or what but....yeah. Donna got saddled with what is considered one of the most "pervy" love interests ever, and any subsequent references to Terry and the kid who died have been awkward. But they always end up referencing Donna's past lives because her origins keep changing and she's always trying to remember who she is/was/should be and ...god it's exhausting. "WHO IS DONNA TROY?" is a famous cover slogan DC has redone a million times because even they understand they've muddled her identity up so badly it's a joke at this point.

I think the best version of Donna was written by Jimenez, who kept it simple. She's Diana's slightly younger, cosmopolitan sister, with flat-ironed hair, and a thriving career as a photographer. If Diana is an ambassador and peacekeeper and Justice Leaguer, Donna is the more carefree version of her, who dates and knows the lingo and is normal. But, to me, she's still a pretty unnecessary character.

Has anyone watched Young Justice? What's the consensus on how Diana had been depicted there? That show has Cassie as Wonder Girl, I know that much, but I have no clue about the rest or whether WW villains have appeared. The show was helmed by Greg Weisman, so I have faith it did some decent stuff.

[Quote] I even hat the fact that Lois & Clark are married with kids.

Why?

[quote]Fans hated the Terry Long (I think that was his name) relationship because he was a older man sexing up Wonder *Girl* and marrying her and having a kid with her. People even said it reflected badly on (the late great) George Perez, who was vocal about loving Donna. I don't know if that means it was a self-insert story idea or what

Interesting. I never thought about it in terms of him being too old for her; I just found him boring. There wasn't a good hook there, the way there usually was when someone super was involved with a normal person: Lois Lane and her journalism, Steve Trevor and his military adventures, even Mary Jane Parker and her glamorous modeling career. He was a college professor who led a milquetoast life, he was drawn average-looking, and they would have dull conversations.

I guess I could see readers thinking someone involved in the book was living vicariously, but Terry looked more like Marv Wolfman (as he looked at that time) than like Pérez. He had the red hair and beard.

R112 basically it was sexist.

R124. I changes the mythos of the Superman legacy and starts to age the characters in real time. I don't want a 40 year old Lois. I want the dynamic of Clark.Kent, Lois Lane and SUPERMAN. I understand storylines and creativity - The had some great "Imaginary Tales" and Marvel had the "What if?" series. It's like the current Etta Candy - Absolutely add a Black lesbian friend to hang out with WW, just don't suddenly make an established character SUDDENLY Black! I feel the SAME way about Superheroes Black Lighting and The Falcon. If I suddenly their reading comics, and Black Lighting was this WHITE guy with a perm, I'd be just as upset. DC has a tendency to constantly re-boot their universe. I write for TV shows and we had a "bible". We could be as creative as we wanted with-in the character profiles, and assorted rules and guidelines for the show.

FUCK! - sorry for all the typos, I swear I'm a decent writer - Its early in the morning and I'm balancing my laptop while enjoying my coffee

I was going to say - you write for TV? LOL. Can I ask which show(s)?

I definitely agree that adding diversity could best be accomplished by bringing in new original characters that the audience can love for who they are, rather than slapping a new ethnicity on an existing character.

The trouble with comics is that gay and black people maybe represent 3% of all the characters in the superhero world of DC or Marvel. There just aren't many. So taking an established beloved character and rebooting them is a shortcut. It's lazy, but sometimes it works.

I

The irony is that the overwhelming majority of comics fans are white.

I see plenty of people of color at comic book conventions. And we'd probably see more if there were more characters of color as well. So...not sure where you're getting that statistic from.

...and also...are you trying to say white people can't enjoy black characters? That's dumb. John Stewart is beloved thanks to the Justice League animated show, and by viewers across various communities. Same for Storm, Black Panther...maybe Cyborg...

Sadly there aren't many beloved gay characters in comics that have gotten big with the mainstream audience. Harley and Ivy have become gay over time but aren't really known for it in a big way (and are accepted more for the hetero titillation factor). Tim Drake hasn't gone over super well as a bi guy, due to the rushed writing...there's Batwoman, but it seems like people liked the quality of her book more than anything else.

[Quote] I write for TV shows and we had a "bible". We could be as creative as we wanted with-in the character profiles, and assorted rules and guidelines for the show.

I don't understand why some shows don't have a bible.

[Quote] there's Batwoman, but it seems like people liked the quality of her book more than anything else.

Well CW completely screwed up with the show from day one. Making Kate Kane an unlikeable asshole certain didn't help but the fans were trash too.

What happened with Batwoman? I never watched it, but I heard about the season 2 recast. Is it still running? Did the fans get too picky with it or something?

r 129 Im old, I wrote for Designing Women. Years ago - The older I get, the harder it is to work in the biz. I moved to Palm Springs, I'm living the stereotype!

R133 no one was happy about Ruby Rose being cast as Kate. And i already knew she would not last 6 years in Vancouver. She was fired after season one and went on a rant about the CWs horrible treatment and Mike Pedowitz.

Instead of recasting Kate they replaced her with a whole new character but then brought another actress in to play Kate for a few episodes. Batwoman was cancelled after season 3 but it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway. The Flash is ending and Stargirl was also cancelled. I'm not sure how much longer Superman & Lois will last if Henry really is back. They also had to replace the actor who played Jon Kent due to "mental health" reasons.

They recton'ed Wonder Girl Cassie to be Ares's daughter and Zeus's granddaughter making her Wonder Woman's niece. Ares gave her armor and a lasso like Wonder Woman's but it resembled barbed wire. At first, Cassie thought the armor gave her powers but it has a mind of its own and it turned out Cassie was more powerful with out the armor. When superboy died she joined a cult to resurrect him.

After Byrne. they really went nuts with Wonder Woman, They gave her a brother who was thrown away basically because he was male. Her plane became a floating castle and could take on what ever shape she thought about. When they rebooted the New 52 they put Superman and Wonder Woman in a relationship.

136 - All I can say is WHY? The invisible plane becomes a castle, Superman in love with WW - No Steve Trevor or Lois Lane, A brother? I honestly just don't get it..

Hold up- there was a brother pre-New 52?

I thought her only brother was Jason, invented recently...

The BEST Wonder Woman arc was when she must first prove her worthiness to rejoin the JLA by undertaking 12 Tasks--each monitored by one of her former Justice League teammates! JLA guest star in every issue of the year long series.

WW’s re-entry into the JLA after the 12 trials was interesting too. Her insecurities about rejoining the team spilled over into a storyline in which she started to butt heads with the other team members, and a super villain (the Construct) is able to easily take over her mind as a result. It all culminated into a fight between Supes and Wondy in the JLA satellite.

For a while, Diana was the Kim Cattrall of the team!

[quote] Am I on trial? "My side" of it is that ever since I asked the Justice League to monitor my performance and make sure I was fit for duty, you've been doing it-- Including all the time since I was supposedly certified fit! No! I am always on trial, and I'm sick of it! Yes, I've been riding Green Arrow and Flash! Oliver Queen is a loud-mouthed know-it-all, and Barry Allen is a closet male chauvinist!

I liked the 12 trials storyline too.

Suffering Sappho!

The original premise was that if Wonder Woman left Paradise Island, she could never return. That there was a very small window for her to leave to go to man's world and if she chose to, she could never come back and no other amazon could leave. for 1000 years...etc..

Why in the fuck did they always have that ugly stereotype for Asians in Wonder Woman? I Ching and EGG FU? Diana had a very strange rogues gallery..

Tell me about it.

What stereotype was EggFu? I never understood what that character even was....

If they did give Diana a girlfriend, what kind of gal should she be? An Amazon? A regular Jane?

[quote] In early appearances, the character was a Yellow Peril ethnic stereotype, complete with caricatured Asian facial features and dialogue written in a phoneticized Chinese accent.[4][5] Certain 21st century updates, such as changing his name to Chang Tzu and affiliating him with DC Comics' Chinese superhero team the Great Ten, maintain his Asian ethnicity while striving to de-emphasize his historically racialized characterization. Appearances in Harley Quinn in 2014 and Harley Quinn and Power Girl in 2015, though restoring the name Egg Fu, have expunged overt associations with Chinese culture and language.

R147. So a giant Asian egg?

Yep, and his moustache acted as claws.

A sample of the offensive dialogue. Stupid Amelicans with their tiny blains!

She is not a gay icon.

To answer a question up above, Extrano appears to have beaten Maggie Sawyer as the first significant ongoing gay character at DC.

Omg just read the Wikipedia entry for Extrano.

[quote] Extraño first appeared in Millennium #2, created by Steve Englehart and artist Joe Staton as a openly gay character. While the character originally never said the word "gay" in the comic, one writer states: "Extraño embodied nearly every stereotype of a gay man. He was flamboyant and colorful, and he referred to himself in the third person, as 'Auntie'. Extraño was mainly used as comic relief, and he never had a boyfriend".[1] The character was controversial, both internally at DC Comics as well as with the readership; Englehart wanted to explore the character more, including a storyline about HIV, but Englehart later said that the editor, Andy Helfer, didn't want gay characters in his comics, and "he thought that Extraño was 'cured' at the end of Millennium".[1] Extraño was ultimately killed by HIV infection, but it was contracted from a fight with an "AIDS vampire" supervillain called the Hemo-Goblin.[2]

Like all comics characters except Uncle Ben, Extrano didn't stay dead and now acts as elder gay mentor to DC's queer kids.

[quote]So a giant Asian egg?

Yes, Einstein. You finally cracked the code. Amazing powers of deduction.

What's the stereotype though? He has a moustache? I dont get it.

Egg fu young: Chinese restaurant dish

Fu manchu: a style of facial hair named for a fictional character who was an Asian stereotype

Epicanthic eye folds: phenotypical feature associated with east Asians.

Do you need any more spelled out for you, R155? Would diagrams help?

Or the fact they had Asians use L's in type instead of R's. AmerLicans.

I thought it was the reverse.

R150 whatever you need to tell yourself, honey.

Wow, that link at r145 is to the blog of a very rabid RWNJ! Danger, Will Robinson.

I loved the powerless Diana Prince when she teamed up with her JLA friends. They acted like she still had super powers when she was just cheap Emma Peel knock off

There’s a hardcover edition of the Emma Peel period available!

Again, what mind of gal would be right for Diana you think?

Didn't Rucka create an Amazon who was always nervous around Diana - Io her name was, I think? A blacksmith?

I could never figure out if they were supposed to have had a relationship back on the island or if Io just was crushing hard on Diana and Diana was oblivious...

This was during Rucka's first (and best) run, with Medusa and Ferdinand the chef and Veronica Cale.