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Unpopular Music Opinions

The Rolling Stones are easily the most overrated British invasion band.

John Fogerty has one of the worst voices in rock music and it makes Creedence Clearwater borderline unlistenable. The band's version of Proud Mary is dull, the Ike and Tina is more famous for good reason.

Stax and Philly Soul>Motown. Stax productions have aged much better than most Motown ones. It's the sound of Memphis/Southern soul!

Hey Now Hey is Aretha's best album. It's so slept on and really it was so ahead of its time. It sounded like nothing else and it's a pity it's relative failure made Aretha more risk-averse. Actually, I think Aretha's best 70s albums beat her best 60s ones.

Michael Jackson's lyrics were often laughable and they should be mocked more than they are. His female peers were criticized for their lyrics way more than he was.

Phyllis Hyman deserved a similar career to Whitney...or at least Donna Summer. Her music choices were much better than Whitney's, that's for sure.

by Anonymousreply 464May 29, 2023 6:57 PM

[quote] "The Rolling Stones are easily the most overrated British invasion band."

They are. They're boring. I've always preferred The Who, The Kinks, The Hollies, and later on: Led Zeppelin, & Pink Floyd

by Anonymousreply 1October 19, 2022 3:49 AM

Why is Taylor Swift one of today's most popular artists? Her songwriting is overrated, her vocals aren't that great, she doesn't even have any charm or charisma to offer. There is nothing interesting about her.

by Anonymousreply 2October 19, 2022 3:55 AM

Beyonce's voice -while technically proficient---is grating and unpleasant to the ear.

by Anonymousreply 3October 19, 2022 3:59 AM

R1, completely agree with you. All the bands you listed are more impressive than the Rolling Stones. And I find it funny that some people really think Mick Jagger is "dancing" on stage. I don't know wtf that is but it's not dancing.

by Anonymousreply 4October 19, 2022 4:04 AM

R2, Taylor was smart to target 5 year old girls with her songs. She basically indoctrinated them with her brand of self-absorbed whining from a young age and since they were so young, they grew up with her (And still listen to her). So she's a marketer's dream. But I agree with everything you said. Her singing is flat.

by Anonymousreply 5October 19, 2022 4:06 AM

Bob Dylan sucks and can't sing.

by Anonymousreply 6October 19, 2022 4:07 AM

The Beatles are totally overrated and are only held in such high regard because they were one of the first pop music groups.

by Anonymousreply 7October 19, 2022 4:08 AM

Beyonce has a good voice, but it doesn't matter when all she sings is stupid shit with no substance.

by Anonymousreply 8October 19, 2022 4:08 AM

1. Apparently this is posted from an assisted-living facility. 2. I have seen the Who, Pink Floyd, the Kinks, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Bowie... and the Stones live. The Stones at their height (@1971) were infinitely more powerful than any of the other Brit bands. That they lasted 50 more years isn't their fault. 3. The best band live, ever, was the Replacements. 4. I love being old.

by Anonymousreply 9October 19, 2022 4:12 AM

Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto is superior to his 3rd.

by Anonymousreply 10October 19, 2022 4:13 AM

Lady Gaga is lucky her transition to movies has been so successful, because she has lost her touch with music. She has nothing else to say.

by Anonymousreply 11October 19, 2022 4:14 AM

I am never impressed when a band last decades. Who cares?! Bands usually produce their best work in their first five to (if they are lucky) 10 years. The Rolling Stones are no exception. When was the last time they made an album that was actually worth buying? Decades ago. I'm glad The Beatles ended when they did. In fact, I think this enhances their legacy.

[quote] The best band live, ever, was the Replacements.

I can believe this.

by Anonymousreply 12October 19, 2022 4:19 AM

Courtney Love is a truly undervalued lyricist (and Hole produced some of the greatest rock songs of the late-20th century).

by Anonymousreply 13October 19, 2022 4:21 AM

R11, her success is mostly due to Red One, her former producer. There's a reason her music became way more boring after Born This Way.

by Anonymousreply 14October 19, 2022 4:22 AM

what r7 said!

by Anonymousreply 15October 19, 2022 4:27 AM

Ariana Grande is awful. 100% sterile and no soul whatsoever.

by Anonymousreply 16October 19, 2022 4:27 AM

^and the laziest singer in memory

by Anonymousreply 17October 19, 2022 4:36 AM

R17: yes! Articulate FFS!

by Anonymousreply 18October 19, 2022 4:37 AM

Janis Joplin had great taste in music and was a nice person but her singing voice was basically the female version of Al Capone's yelling.

The Beach Boys are godawful white-boy novelty rock. Not even danceable. "Surf City," for fuck's sake. Bananarama had more depth.

The Beatles are cute, but basically kid stuff.

Whitney Houston and Celine Deon both wasted their voices on shit.

Seconding Bob Dylan as an asshole who hasn't sung a decent note since 1973.

Liking Frank Sinatra is how straight men remind each other they have cloth ears.

The vast majority of musicals are so stupid their plots would be rejected as Smurfs episodes.

by Anonymousreply 19October 19, 2022 4:47 AM

Without George Martin, the Beatles would have been just another boy band.

by Anonymousreply 20October 19, 2022 4:54 AM

[quote]Whitney Houston and Celine Deon both wasted their voices on shit.

I don't like Celine, but you should listen to some of Whitney's non-top 40 stuff.

by Anonymousreply 21October 19, 2022 5:27 AM

I think it's sad that with all the good music she has made over the years, Mariah Carey's entire legacy has been reduced to "The Christmas Lady." I don't even like All I Want For Christmas Is You. It's never on any of my Christmas playlists.

by Anonymousreply 22October 19, 2022 5:35 AM

[quote]I think it's sad that with all the good music she has made over the years, Mariah Carey's entire legacy has been reduced to "The Christmas Lady." I don't even like All I Want For Christmas Is You. It's never on any of my Christmas playlists.

Only to the ignorant. Hero is another part of her legacy. And DreamLover and Vision of Love and Fantasy are classics.

by Anonymousreply 23October 19, 2022 5:42 AM

Billy Joel is overrated. He appeals / appealed to a bunch of non-musical types who think any asshole who sings while sitting at a piano is some genius. He has maybe two decent songs.

by Anonymousreply 24October 19, 2022 5:48 AM

Janet Jackson's legacy ended not just because of the Super Bowl incident, but also her brother's premature death. Michael Jackson has been deified ever since. People forgot about all the jokes they made, all the stuff he did, and collectively decided no other Jackson has ever mattered except Saint Michael.

by Anonymousreply 25October 19, 2022 5:52 AM

Meghan Trainor isn't that bad.

by Anonymousreply 26October 19, 2022 6:00 AM

Madonna is easily the most hated singer in the world but her vast catalog of timeless classics are unmatched by any singers in history.

by Anonymousreply 27October 19, 2022 6:06 AM

Amy Winehouse, may she RIP, ripped off black singers a little too much, and got away with it. Dusty Springfield at least managed to still sound unique.

I saw Mumford and Sons perform recently, and they were quite dull. Maybe they shouldn't have kicked out the other brother over politics or whatever it was.

Avril Lavigne can be quite a thrilling performer.

Joni Mitchell's music will always leave me a little cold because it's hard to sing along to.

Songs are so coarse and unmemorable now, no melody, no harmony, no meaningful lyrics. I'm old, though.

by Anonymousreply 28October 19, 2022 6:07 AM

R27 It doesn't matter that she's not a great singer. She sounds great, and that's the main thing. There's a difference. Her songs are wonderfully crafted.

by Anonymousreply 29October 19, 2022 6:10 AM

I wouldn't dream of buying any Pink Floyd music. I turn the station when they come on the radio. You couldn't have paid me to see them live.

by Anonymousreply 30October 19, 2022 6:18 AM

Bananarama is the greatest girl group of all time, & I was devastated when Siobhan left. Though I do love me some Shakespear’s Sister (and don’t Oh, dear me, that’s how it’s spelled).

by Anonymousreply 31October 19, 2022 6:20 AM

The Judy Collins of Both Sides Now makes me cry every time, while Joni’s vocals make me cringe.

by Anonymousreply 32October 19, 2022 6:21 AM

Madonna is just good

by Anonymousreply 33October 19, 2022 6:21 AM

*version

by Anonymousreply 34October 19, 2022 6:22 AM

Al Jolson still slaps

by Anonymousreply 35October 19, 2022 6:22 AM

R32 Judy's version has a lovely arrangement with interesting, pretty chord changes, and a beat that makes sense. Joni's is very personal and quirky and a little monotonous. Like I said upthread, Joni's songs are hard to sing along to, and she probably likes it that way, keeping them hers alone. I think I read she disliked Judy's cover, probably too pop for her.

Fun fact, Pete Seeger wrote an extra verse to Both Sides Now, and once performed it with Joni, it's on Youtube. In it he basically tells her not to feel so bad, everyone is angsty in life.

In this vein, I don't like the sound of CSNY's harmonies. I respect the intricacies, but I just don't like the tone, or something. The Mamas and Papas harmonies I loved.

by Anonymousreply 36October 19, 2022 6:34 AM

Most "great" folk music is fucking dull and terrible.

by Anonymousreply 37October 19, 2022 7:49 AM

[quote] The best band live, ever, was the Replacements

They were also the worst band live, sometimes during the same show.

by Anonymousreply 38October 19, 2022 8:40 AM

R19, come sit with me, you pissy bitch.

I like you.

And I love this thread!

by Anonymousreply 39October 19, 2022 9:00 AM

Almost all of Elvis’ songs, sound like the rest.

He killed it, however, with “I can’t help falling in love with you” & Suspicious Lives”I have zero shit to talk about The Rolling Stones, or The Beatles.

They made a shitty day les shitty and a good day a fantastic one.

I prefer classical music above all music.

In the last 15-20 years, almost every single new song that has gotten mainstream radio play across the country (United States) SUCKS dirty donkey dick.

by Anonymousreply 40October 19, 2022 9:16 AM

The Elvis song is called Suspicious MINDS.

The Fine Young Cannibals did a great version of that song.

by Anonymousreply 41October 19, 2022 10:14 AM

We live in a world of hype where the masses are told what to like, what to think, what to believe, what to do. We are all told that something is the greatest thing ever, and we just have to watch, listen, read, consume the latest super trendy product.

If people try to convince you hard that something is really great, and you should have it, chances are that it's not so good (for you) after all.

by Anonymousreply 42October 19, 2022 10:59 AM

R41, you are correct!

Thank you.😊

by Anonymousreply 43October 19, 2022 11:34 AM

Christina Aguilera is one of the worst professional singers I have ever had the displeasure to listen to. She doesn't sing, she shrieks, growls, and screams, shrill gutter slop.

Cher can't sing her way out of a paper bag. Her cosmetic surgeries ruined her face. She looks like my scary grandma now.

Bob Dylan - how did he ever become a famous performer? His voice is hideous. Many of his lyrics make no sense. I've heard that even he dislikes his own stuff.

Joni Mitchell's voice has (had) a flowery, high vibrato that caused me heart palpitations. Bad ones. Hard pass.

95% of rap is pure trash.

95% of Country music is pure trash.

Someone, please tell Lizzo to stop wearing tiny things that show every bulge and lumpy fold of flesh. Lizzo, you are fat, and it is disturbing to look at you.

Elvis sucked.

Drum solos suck. Really suck.

Audience members (always ugly chicks) that stand up and decide they must 'rock-out', at concerts, should be shamed and beaten by the rest of the crowd BEHIND them, and forcibly be made to sit the fuck back down. There are always a handful of these attention-starved morons at concerts that feel they must stand up and boogie down to the music. Guess again. If the rest of the crowd is seated then you need to sit the fuck down. There is a special place in Hell for them and I'd like to help get them there faster.

Don't get me started on The Grateful Dead. Every tune they put out sounded the same, and like it was sung by a bunch of goofy hillbillies. One of the most over-rated bands of the '60s & '70s. Those die-hard Dead Head fans that followed the band everywhere they played? Grow the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 44October 19, 2022 12:29 PM

Whitney's voice was magnificent. but the vast majority of her songs are absolute garbage, including some of her biggest hits. Her first album was incredibly weak in both songwriting and production for such a huge hit, and the second one wasn't much better.

Lauryn Hill was at least 70% hype.

Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix are far, far better guitarists than Clapton. Both are true innovators who got sounds out of the instrument that no one else had before. Clapton, by contrast, is simply a great blues player.

A lot of acclaimed singer/songwriters should not in any way be involved in the composition of their own songs. Many of them would be better off strictly as interpreters of others' material.

Duran Duran deserve more credit. Their stuff has held up surprisingly well, with crisp, funky production.

Fleetwood Mac's music is boring as hell.

Adele is crazy overrated. She's a good singer (and far more derivative than Amy Winehouse, R28), but the her songs are borderline embarrassing. There's nothing there.

Wham's first album is better than their second.

Hip-hop is responsible for the death of true R&B ans a mainstream genre. And 95% of hip-hop is pure shit. We traded gold for shit.

by Anonymousreply 45October 19, 2022 12:47 PM

Laura Nyro’s melodies are catchy but her lyrics are self-indulgent and her voice is grating.

by Anonymousreply 46October 19, 2022 12:56 PM

R37 hasn’t listened deeply enough to folk music. It is the most exciting genre. I’m surprised the ‘Dan Fogelberg sucks donkey dick’ troll hasn’t arrived yet.

Madonna doesn’t have a lick of musical talent. And popular modern woman singer that didn’t establish their career in the 70s completely sucks. Vocal runs have ruined solo singing for both men and women. Trap music is the absolute worst pop music trend ever, second to dubstep.

Most people buy records and album because of the cover art. They don’t give a flying shit about the recorded music. Rap music listeners only pay attention to the beat and don’t give a shit about what the music says or does, hence the offensive language.

A gay classical music snob is a gay that really doesn’t have an ear for music, unless they do like other genres of music. I think The Cars is the worst band of the 1970s— Big Star was everything that garbage band wishes it was. Paul McCartney’s Wings made totally dull albums, his solo material reigns supreme.

by Anonymousreply 47October 19, 2022 1:02 PM

Tangerine Dream is better than Kraftwerk

by Anonymousreply 48October 19, 2022 1:20 PM

I agree with much of what r47 typed. And I disagree just as strongly with the rest of his screed.

Though I don't hate folk music, I'm not fond of the sound of the acoustic guitar. It reminds me too much of my bully brother, who was always either playing or tuning his. And though I am not the ‘Dan Fogelberg sucks donkey dick’ troll, I have yet to hear a song of his I like.

I agree completely with r47's opinion of Madonna and melisma. The whole paragraph makes utter sense to me.

I don't find classical music to be superior to all other forms of music, but my music collection is probably 40-50% classical. The fact that with its multiple versions of each piece, classical is so much easier to collect compulsively, has a lot to do with this.

There are so many worse bands than the Cars. Most of them are the one-word-name groups so popular at that time. I do like Big Star, though I didn't become familiar with them until I heard the Replacements sometime in the 1980s. I wish Chris Bell hadn't died in 1978. Music might have become so much better in the 1980s.

A single "W" for r47.

by Anonymousreply 49October 19, 2022 2:34 PM

OP proves that "opinions" are equivalent to farts in her aesthetic workings.

by Anonymousreply 50October 19, 2022 2:41 PM

Ha ha ha ha.

by Anonymousreply 51October 19, 2022 2:42 PM

[...]

by Anonymousreply 52October 19, 2022 2:43 PM

[...]

by Anonymousreply 53October 19, 2022 2:45 PM

Sophie Tucker was the last of the red hot mamas

by Anonymousreply 54October 19, 2022 2:49 PM

R45 Clive Davis helped bring Whitney into her Star self with her debut on Arista, HIMSELF! Narada Michael Walden’s production on “How Will I Know” was spot on production perfection in 1985.

by Anonymousreply 55October 19, 2022 2:53 PM

Wow r44. What a rant!

by Anonymousreply 56October 19, 2022 2:55 PM

I cannot bear Adele or Sam Smith's nanny goat bleating. Harry Styles is bland and boring as fuck. Billie Eilish is shit.

by Anonymousreply 57October 19, 2022 2:57 PM

I disagree that the Beach Boys were terrible. Yes, their early stuff was vapid but that's what sold. There's a reason Brian hated it. The later stuff was very innovative. Brian Wilson is considered to be a musical genius. Sad about his mental health struggles.

by Anonymousreply 58October 19, 2022 3:02 PM

Billie Eiilish is really bad upon a closer look at her artistry. She struck a nerve being the anti Ariana Grande, etc with her every freak style and hushed mini vocals. The only thing I give her points for is her co-writing with her brother.

by Anonymousreply 59October 19, 2022 3:03 PM

Gangsta rap is in the top 3 worst things to ever happen to the Black community alongside Crack and actual real racism. To add on Black music has gotten progressively worse in the past 30 years and there will never be another James Brown, Barry white, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston Marvin Gaye etc. because younger Black generations lack the talent, drive and innovation of the past. Sadly and ironically hip hop will be the legacy of modern-day Black America while simultaneously being responsible for its downfall.

by Anonymousreply 60October 19, 2022 4:01 PM

[quote]I disagree that the Beach Boys were terrible. Yes, their early stuff was vapid but that's what sold. There's a reason Brian hated it.

It wasn't vapid, and Brian didn't hate it. He just wanted to move on, and not travel with the band, which was the thing he actually hated.

He was only able to begin moving on when he had the time to stay home and produce in the studio. Eventually, we got The Beach Boys Today, which gave us "Kiss Me Baby," "She Knows Me Too Well," "When I Grow Up," and "Don't Hurt My Little Sister." "The Little Girl I Once Knew" didn't make it to the original album, but was included on the CD release in 1990. Terrific song.

Then came Summer Days and Summer Nights, with "Girl Don't Tell Me," "Let Him Run Wild," and "You're So Good to Me."

This transitional material that bridged the surf music/Pet Sounds gap, well, it's some of his best stuff.

Nothing that came before it was "vapid." It was just the logical progression of this particular man's particular genius. We might never have had "God Only Knows" if "Don't Worry Baby" hadn't preceded it. And who knows if "Don't Worry Baby" could have existed without "Surfin' USA" coming first?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 61October 19, 2022 4:41 PM

[quote]"Surf City," for fuck's sake.

"Surf City" was recorded by Jan & Dean, for fuck's sake, although Brian Wilson did write it.

by Anonymousreply 62October 19, 2022 4:52 PM

Damn!

Miss R44 is angry AF and she’s not gonna take it anymore!

by Anonymousreply 63October 19, 2022 5:37 PM

Kate Bush's fluttery voice sounds ridiculous to me.

by Anonymousreply 64October 19, 2022 6:36 PM

[quote]Fleetwood Mac's music is boring as hell.

I agree. The best version is the original Fleetwood Mac, the British blues band led by the late guitarist Peter Green.

The original Fleetwood Mac version did include Mick Fleetwood and John McVie. Christine McVie was not a member f the original band, Christine had her own band, Chicken Shack. I bet lots of Americans had no clue there was a Fleetwood Mac before Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined the band. The two bands couldn't be anymore different. The US version was a pop band and the UK version was a blues band.

Mac's original guitarist, Peter Green, wrote and sang Black Magic Woman, which was a hit for Santana. Black Magic Woman was first released by Fleetwood Mac as a single in 1968,

The American version of Fleetwood Mac was basically a pop/rock band. I never got the appeal of Stevie Nicks, she sounds like she needs adenoid surgery. Lindsey is an excellent guitarist, but the US version did nothing for me.

by Anonymousreply 65October 19, 2022 8:27 PM

I agree, R65. I love all the early FM, but gave a hard pass to the new version. Loved Christine McVie's voice.

by Anonymousreply 66October 19, 2022 8:31 PM

Amazing singers don’t make the best music. From Barbra to Whitney to Celine to Adele and even Mariah (who I love).

Vocally talent doesn’t cover all the elements of being a good artist.

I’d personally take Madonna or Janet over any of the artists I’ve mentioned.

That’s why American Idol fizzled out. You had some amazing singers with boring personalities who were given boring music to sing and people lost interest.

by Anonymousreply 67October 19, 2022 8:37 PM

American Idol usually didn't choose the best singers, just the loudest. The louder you scream, the better they think you are.

by Anonymousreply 68October 19, 2022 8:44 PM

[quote] The original Fleetwood Mac version did include Mick Fleetwood and John McVie. Christine McVie was not a member f the original band, Christine had her own band, Chicken Shack. I bet lots of Americans had no clue there was a Fleetwood Mac before Stevie Nicks.

The whole setup kind of reminds me of the Rain Parade-to-Dream Syndicate-to-Opal-to-Going Home-to-Mazzy Star-to-Warm Inventions timeline. David Roback leaving his main psychedelic bands to work closely with Kendra Smith on making more direct Americana music; then hooking up with fan Hope Sandoval and offering to help her little acoustic due project, only to focus on her and remove her friend & partner from the picture, and nudging Kendra out; then forming the most commercially successful version of the jangly but moody-bluesy Rolling Stones-cum-The Byrds-cum-Elliot Smith sound that David envisaged; then Hope leaving to go solo and release her own dreamy and dark synthy-spooky vision of ethereal alternative.

Only these people and these bands were and are cool. Fleetwood Mac are Boomer cringe.

by Anonymousreply 69October 19, 2022 8:55 PM

[quote]Amazing singers don’t make the best music. From Barbra to Whitney to Celine to Adele and even Mariah (who I love). Vocally talent doesn’t cover all the elements of being a good artist. I’d personally take Madonna or Janet over any of the artists I’ve mentioned.

Your post is incoherent. Why don't you simply say, singers with great voices, who cannot write their own music, need to surround themselves with great songwriters? The same can be said of bad singers, It's ALL about the songs in most cases.

The great songwriting transcends the awful singing of technically bad singers. Hit songs have hooks which the fans latch on to, it can be anyone singing, it's the songs which matter. Most music fans don't care much about whether or not singer has a great voice, especially today's music fans, they are more into the hook of the song and the performer's image.

Madonna and Janet are in no way technically good let alone, great singers, they both were savvy enough to surround themselves with good songwriters, great touring bands and great studio musicians, great dancers, interesting costumes and their elaborate stage shows also take away from the flaws of their terrible 'singing'.

by Anonymousreply 70October 19, 2022 8:57 PM

Chumbawamba was always underrated as a band. Tubthumping (“I get knocked down…”) was one of their worst songs although it made them a one hit wonder in the 90s because it sounded like a drinking anthem.

by Anonymousreply 71October 19, 2022 8:58 PM

The greatest 70s UK punk band is The Damned, and second only to Iggy Pop in the US. For their ever-evolving recordings, their wild live shows, and their pure cussed resilience (the complete original lineup is playing four dates next week in the UK--they're all in their 60s now).

by Anonymousreply 72October 19, 2022 8:58 PM

Great thread, but I honestly would also like the ones making negative comments about popular or esteemed artists do the opposite, tell us whch ones are unexpectedly good (like r45 partially did with Duran Duran).

by Anonymousreply 73October 19, 2022 9:10 PM

Have no interest in the Rolling Stones either. I have tried to listen to them on occasion because I feel like I should be more familiar with them, but their music is very uninteresting to me. The only song I like is "Gimmer Shelter" and that is SOLELY down to Merry Clayton.

Michael Jackson's lyrics can be very dumb, I agree. I only noticed recently that the background vocals of "Bad" are: "Bad! Bad! Really, really bad!" which makes me laugh. I've never really understood the love of his music either, something about it really doesn't work for me.

I don't like Patti LuPone's singing. This might get me kicked off the board. But she is frequently off key to my ears and belts with no sense of melody or tune.

by Anonymousreply 74October 19, 2022 9:13 PM

[quote]I don't like Patti LuPone's singing.

She's no Elaine Stritch.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 75October 19, 2022 9:17 PM

Every Carrie Underwood song sounds exactly the same because she sings them exactly the same way.

by Anonymousreply 76October 19, 2022 9:29 PM

Frank Zappa's music sounds like industrial / factory noise, or insanity...

by Anonymousreply 77October 19, 2022 9:35 PM

The first three Queen albums were their best.

by Anonymousreply 78October 19, 2022 9:36 PM

Most female singers today sound like they are suffering with constipation.

by Anonymousreply 79October 19, 2022 9:37 PM

Completely agree with just about every reply here, although disagree with the very first statement about The Rolling Stones (and I’ve also seen in concert most of the famous UK bands from that era). Stones always put on the best show, even though I’d usually reach for a Bowie, Kinks, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin or Who album over a Rolling Stones one back in those days. However, the great Stones songs really are great: Wild Horses, Gimme Shelter, Miss You (their disco era song). I grew out of the Beatles by about age twenty.

Very true about early Fleetwood Mac. Oh Well was my anthem in college but I rarely hear it now. I think it holds up.

Also second the comment that most of the people considered great singers need better lyrics. I always wonder if someone like Eminem, who writes great lyrics, might be able to write an interesting song for someone like an Adele.

by Anonymousreply 80October 19, 2022 9:40 PM

[quote]Frank Zappa's music sounds like industrial / factory noise, or insanity...

Nothing wrong with that, especially the fact that a lot of his former band members were classically trained musicians and the other were jazz musicians.

There is world of music out there to explore, none of us need to listen to whatever some critic tells us to listen to.

Zappa was definitely an acquired taste, just like Captain Beefheart. I'd rather listen to 'out there' musicians, and free jazz, than typical pop garbage like Taylor Swift and her tedious ilk. It's truly amazing how stupid the music buying public is. So many are into style over actual substance. Pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 81October 19, 2022 9:58 PM

Agree with R74 about Patti. Evita is one of my favorite musicals but I just can’t stand her mush-mouth bellowing. For me Elaine Paige and Julie Covington were far superior.

Meanwhile for unexpectedly diverse and sophisticated listening pleasure I enjoy the Monkees.

by Anonymousreply 82October 19, 2022 10:04 PM

R9 The Kinks are my favorite band ever. I'm so jealous.

Here are my unpopular music opinions:

The Kinks are better than The Beatles. Their music is much more interesting and more fun.

Pearl Jam was always a better band than Nirvana.

by Anonymousreply 83October 19, 2022 10:32 PM

The Rolling Stones have put out some excellent classic rock/blues albums, "Beggars Banquet", "Let It Bleed", "Exile on Main Street and "Sticky Fingers" are just a few of their best albums. Of course, their earlier more bluesy albums were great too and their hits songs released in the 1960s were great such as 1966's " 19th Nervous Breakdown" and 1969's 'Honky Tonk Woman".

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" is a classic! How can anyone call the Stones boring?! The Stones aren't even one of my fave rock bands, yet I will admit they are amazing.

Same with The Beatles, how anyone could call The Beatles a boy band? This statement shows me these people know little about about popular music. And the many genres within pop music! The Beatles started as a sort of version of a 1960s boy band, except they were also musicians and songwriters. Anyone with functioning ears, could hear how they progressed musically over their short time in the music biz. "Revolver" and "Rubber Soul" anyone?

Off course, both manager Brian Epstein and producer George Martin were extremely important to The Beatles career. But the band themselves had raw talent, which so many of today's popular musicians possess little of. Today's popular musicians image and artifice seem to be more important than the actual music.

The Beatles during their short time in the music business, produced some very important pop music, which is still listen to today, their music still sounds fresh.

The Beatles music has been re-recorded by many musicians from different genres. The Beatles were excellent songwriters.

by Anonymousreply 84October 19, 2022 10:36 PM

I find The Animals overrated.

by Anonymousreply 85October 19, 2022 10:37 PM

Someone mentioned annoying people who stand up to dance at concerts. I agree if they’re totally wasted and clearly just ‘rocking out’ to be seen to be doing so (and if videoing themselves doing it they need shooting), but on the flip side I’d say people who buy tickets on the flat sections in front of the stage who get annoyed at people stood up dancing are idiots who should have bought tickets on the side raised seating areas. Why go to a concert and not get up and dance? I’m talking up tempo songs you can dance to here of course. There’s no need to be stood up at an Adele or concert. You’re not at the ballet, get up and enjoy yourself- or don’t. But don’t have a go at other people for doing so.

by Anonymousreply 86October 19, 2022 10:40 PM

The 1960s was certainly a Youthquake, especially as far as the enormous amount of great pop and rock music coming out of the UK. Even mod fashion put the UK on the map, Mary Quant, Biba and the mod hair stylists, such as Vidal Sassoon, all were popular in the US. Certain fashion styles trickled down to the general public.

The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Kinks, The Animals, Led Zeppelin and Hendrix all changed the face of pop music. In fact, Hendrix had to go to England to find fame.

Another important aspect of these bands, they brought Black American music to young people who would have never thought to listen to it.

by Anonymousreply 87October 19, 2022 10:43 PM

I prefer Stone Temple Pilots to Nirvana.

by Anonymousreply 88October 19, 2022 11:35 PM

If you like authentic blues you oughta check out Blues Hammer. They're so great.

by Anonymousreply 89October 19, 2022 11:40 PM

I think Alice In Chains was the greatest grunge band of all.

by Anonymousreply 90October 20, 2022 12:42 AM

[quote] Her first album was incredibly weak in both songwriting and production for such a huge hit, and the second one wasn't much better.

Whitney's first album was MUCH better than her second. Her second had many one good song on it.

by Anonymousreply 91October 20, 2022 1:33 AM

[quote] Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix are far, far better guitarists than Clapton. Both are true innovators who got sounds out of the instrument that no one else had before. Clapton, by contrast, is simply a great blues player.

Don't forget Peter Green!

by Anonymousreply 92October 20, 2022 1:35 AM

[quote] I only noticed recently that the background vocals of "Bad" are: "Bad! Bad! Really, really bad!" which makes me laugh.

Exactly. Someone who is actually "bad" wouldn't need to tell the word how bad they are. Over and over again.

by Anonymousreply 93October 20, 2022 1:40 AM

R84, I love The Beatles--I just started reading the mammoth biography "The Beatles Tune In"--and I love a lot of different types of rock music, including stuff like Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Catherine Wheel, etc. I find the Rolling Stones insanely boring except for "Paint it Black". I don't understand why "Exile on Main Street" is considered one of the greatest records ever. It's unlistenable to me. I find everything about them laughable. They don't impress me.

by Anonymousreply 94October 20, 2022 1:44 AM

I like four Stones albums: Aftermath, Between the Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, and Let It Bleed. There was never a Beatles album I disliked. But I agree with r83: I love the Kinks; they're not my favorite group of all time—that's the Beach Boys—but they're my favorite British group. Face to Face is one of my top ten of all time.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 95October 20, 2022 1:52 AM

Bey is a bore

Cardi B Megan Thee Stalluon are porn performers

Billie is ugly and minimally talented

HER is cousin IT

by Anonymousreply 96October 20, 2022 1:55 AM

AC/DC were never as good after Bon Scott died.

by Anonymousreply 97October 20, 2022 1:56 AM

[quote]I think Alice In Chains was the greatest grunge band of all.

Alice in Chains were better than Pearl Jam and Nirvana combined. ALL of those grunge guys were trying to sound like Layne Staley. He was the originator.

by Anonymousreply 98October 20, 2022 3:16 AM

Layne Staley had THE voice. Chris Cornell had an amazing voice but he was often ventured into Christina Aguilera territory.

by Anonymousreply 99October 20, 2022 3:33 AM

Stock Aitken Waterman were the British Motown.

Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" sucks.

by Anonymousreply 100October 20, 2022 3:34 AM

Jeff Buckley - SUCKS! Completely overrated.

by Anonymousreply 101October 20, 2022 3:44 AM

The Beatles and George Martin. For some time the idea that George Martin was the "brains" behind the boys' success was possibly true, at least in part, to me

Recently I saw the whole Get Back, Peter Jackson documentary. I saw the four of them, especially Paul and John (when he was a little less high in the second part of the doc) were facile, knowledgeable, and creative musicians. Their ideas bounced against each other so productively. They shared a love for each other and the roots of their music. Martin was around, and irrelevant. The "question" was resolved for me. The Beatles were brilliant and their "legacy" was helped by their break up that stuck and John's early death.

R97 That's not unpopular, it's just simple fact.

Unpopular opinion: The Pixies were better than Nirvana.

Unpopular opinion: Women really can't rap.

by Anonymousreply 102October 20, 2022 3:45 AM

I don't have a problem with Nirvana particularly but I agree with everyone here - it's like every other band of that time was better than they were. Including Hole.

by Anonymousreply 103October 20, 2022 3:47 AM

While we are debating this genre, I must add Radio Head to the crew of great bands mentioned. Thom Yorke will always be a favorite of mine.

by Anonymousreply 104October 20, 2022 4:02 AM

Joni Mitchell makes my ears bleed.

by Anonymousreply 105October 20, 2022 4:20 AM

Another vote for Duran Duran as a great band.

ZZ Top and Def Leopard both gave me more listening pleasure than Led Zeppelin or the Stones ever did.

by Anonymousreply 106October 20, 2022 4:25 AM

R103 I also prefer Hole to Nirvana. Maybe it's just the inner gay boy in me, but Courtney's lyrics spoke to me more and the music (despite still being really dark) was more sophisticated in a lot of ways. Kurt Cobain could write a mean and dirty riff, but he was not much of a lyricist. Courtney was the opposite—she was really good with words but was a marginal guitarist at her peak, and after becoming famous got lazy and devolved to the point that she could hardly hammer her way through a basic three-chord song. It's kind of a shame. As someone who has played guitar for over half my life, I always hoped she'd dedicate herself more to the instrument, because what she lacked in proficiency she made up for in style. I know there are a lot of haters who wouldn't believe it, but she did have a unique, jangly sort of playing style that I enjoyed listening to. She just wasn't disciplined enough to hone it more (surprise, surprise).

by Anonymousreply 107October 20, 2022 4:37 AM

My sympathies R106. I hope you get your hearing and mental state repaired real quick, you know, like a bunny.

by Anonymousreply 108October 20, 2022 4:37 AM

Lana was great on SNL

by Anonymousreply 109October 20, 2022 4:41 AM

Michael Jackson is overrated. Men who sings like top notch vocalists Celine or Whitney are not attractive.

by Anonymousreply 110October 20, 2022 4:44 AM

R109 I love Lana and think she has proven herself a more-than-capable singer/songwriter over the last decade (and frankly one of the best working today), but I can't agree. That performance was a hot mess and all over the place. A lot of people have chalked it up to nerves which is probably true, but it was still just bad. I still revisit her SNL performance of "Blue Jeans" when I need a good laugh.

by Anonymousreply 111October 20, 2022 4:44 AM

Male Latin singers are generally better singers than their white male counterparts

by Anonymousreply 112October 20, 2022 5:45 AM

Lana was bad on SNL, but the amount of hate she got for it was ridiculous.

Ke$ha was also bad on SNL, but nobody talks about it.

by Anonymousreply 113October 20, 2022 6:02 AM

Whitney Houston was not just a great vocalist, but also a great interpreter and live performer. She had a unique musical talent to know what to do with a melody. Neither Cissy nor Dionne were as versatile as Whitney. Cissy rightfully never moved beyond backup singer, even though she had a superb voice. Sadly Whitney's full musical talent was never realized, bc Clive Davis wanted her on the pop side of RnB. Imagine a collaborations with Prince and WH. Esp during Prince's FunknRoll years.

by Anonymousreply 114October 20, 2022 7:04 AM

Rap is a slap on in the face to the quality standards of Black music styles like Jazz, Blues, RnB, and Soul.

I'm hoping for something like a Disco sucks movement that puts the nail in the coffin of the most overrated musical style ever in the history of popular music.

by Anonymousreply 115October 20, 2022 7:15 AM

There is no difference between Lana Del Ray and Ben Platt. Their daddies finance their careers. I laugh at anyone who complains about music being too commercial and PR driven and then praise someone like Lana Del Ray who's basically Paris Hilton with a parent who believes in her.

by Anonymousreply 116October 20, 2022 8:14 AM

Ups, Lana Del Rey, of course.

by Anonymousreply 117October 20, 2022 8:14 AM

Authentic blues? Not if they're a white band. R89

by Anonymousreply 118October 20, 2022 9:59 AM

R68 never watched "American Idol," or he'd know that most winners never "screamed," and that they were chosen by the public.

It is so very tedious to read over and over again on DL how the Beatles are and were so over-rated. Now, I love the Hollies ("Bus Stop," e.g.), but better? Please! The Kinks? Oh, now we love "Lola," do we? Only one British Invasion group (not a "boy band," who play no instruments and have choreography) literally changed the culture, from music to fashion to hair to movies with "A Hard Day's Night", even unto a seismic shift of cultural power to teens. The Beatles were a force; to try to reduce them, their music, and their influence down to "George Martin did it all" or "But their lyrics" is to prove the adage about the forest and the trees.

Whoever said album buyers buy/bought for the cover art? That was certainly not true in the 60s or 70s when young people, especially students, didn't have money to burn. Great cover art came with the Pop music territory, just as great book jacket art did with Popular literature (I have some of the best on Agatha Christie paperbacks from then; cover art by Teason). It was the era.

My particular "unpopular" opinion, if it is, is that Pop music never recovered from the disuse of the (mostly Hammond) electric organ.

by Anonymousreply 119October 20, 2022 11:05 AM

Kenny Loggins, despite the cheesiness of a lot of his songs, was a terrific vocalist in his day - plenty of range, good phrasing.

A lot of yacht rock is really well-produced, with top-notch musicianship.

Sade hasn't made a good album since Love Deluxe.

Tommy Mottola may have been a controlling asshole, but his career plan for Mariah was the right way to go. Despite her talent she's gotten progressively more ridiculous and undignified since they split, and most importantly, adrift musically. She should never have gone hip-hop, which is not a singer's genre.

Beyonce is as dull as dishwater. She's beautiful and a decent singer, but holy shit is she boring.

Prince was never as good again without the Revolution.

Still of the Night by Whitesnake is catchy as hell with a great guitar riff.

Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley is totally unlistenable now thanks to all the idiots who have covered it without understanding the first thing about what the song means. Jeff's take on it was refreshing at the time, but he got it. Nobody else has since.

Bruce Springsteen is overrated.

Tiffany actually had a great voice.

by Anonymousreply 120October 20, 2022 11:57 AM

R120 love Still of The Night!! Agree with all your points!

by Anonymousreply 121October 20, 2022 12:25 PM

I'll add to those who have said good things about The Kinks. My dad had a best of cassette when I was a kid that we would listen to on weekend trips and something about a lot of their music just moves me more than other bands of that era, as much as I like those bands too.

by Anonymousreply 122October 20, 2022 12:31 PM

[quote]A lot of yacht rock is really well-produced, with top-notch musicianship.

Agreed. It's good, cheesy fun, like the best pop of any age. And it holds up: it's immensely popular on streaming platforms across different age groups.

I'm late Boomer/Gen X cusp and find a lot of Boomer tastes infuriating. We had some truly terrific pop music in the late 60s/70s/80s, but a lot of Boomers are rock purists (which seems corny and silly to me) and despise pop, then and now. Rigid categorization of pop culture is limiting and a waste of time.

by Anonymousreply 123October 20, 2022 12:43 PM

R120, I find it a blatant song about sex. You?

by Anonymousreply 124October 20, 2022 6:39 PM

VERY unpopular opinion--I like the Tori Amos cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit better than the original. At least you can actually understand what Tori is saying. I never understood half the words Nirvana was saying.

by Anonymousreply 125October 21, 2022 1:25 AM

R124 I'm not R120, but Hallelujah is about sex as a religious experience. Combining religious and sexual imagery was something that Leonard Cohen did a lot.

120 is right; Buckley "got it." I think the problem is that most people got introduced to the song through Shreck, which cut out all of the sexual parts and most of the religious parts, or on TV shows that play them during funeral scenes and stuff like that.

Also, I'm the person who said that The Kinks is his favorite band and I'm delighted to see that they have other fans here.

by Anonymousreply 126October 21, 2022 1:36 AM

I can't stand Aretha Franklin's voice. I've liked only two things she's done, the duet with George Michael and when they sampled her voice in that "Peter Pan Is A Man" Italian dance song from the early 1990s, maybe "Touch Me"?

by Anonymousreply 127October 21, 2022 1:42 AM

R79 They all sing like they're either swallowing marbles, taking a shit, or eating peanut butter

by Anonymousreply 128October 21, 2022 1:45 AM

R127: agree about Aretha. I do like Willing to Forgive from 1994 (no one can really mess up a Babyface song) and Get It Right from the early 80s though. I’d put her in the same category as the Beatles for being held up as amazing mainly because she’s seen as the first of her kind.

by Anonymousreply 129October 21, 2022 1:45 AM

Coldplay's music is grating and self-indulgent and the sound of Chris Martin's voice makes me want to smack my grandma.

by Anonymousreply 130October 21, 2022 1:48 AM

R129 I find the Stars on 45 Beatles medley to be enough of the Beatles for any occasion

by Anonymousreply 131October 21, 2022 1:49 AM

U2 is the single most overrated band of my Gen X generation.

by Anonymousreply 132October 21, 2022 1:50 AM

Hole is the single most underrated band of my Gen X generation.

by Anonymousreply 133October 21, 2022 1:52 AM

I am sick to death of twee white hipsters desecrating classic songs with their breathy vocals, glockenspiels and ukeleles

by Anonymousreply 134October 21, 2022 1:53 AM

All Steely Dan songs sound the same.

by Anonymousreply 135October 21, 2022 2:25 AM

The Eagles made bland music and people ate that shit up. No thanks.

by Anonymousreply 136October 21, 2022 2:38 AM

R136, yes. I've read that people in the 70s were sick of "Stairway to Heaven" because it was overplayed and talked about as much as "Smells Like Teen Spirit". In subsequent decades, I think "Hotel California" has taken Stairway's place.

by Anonymousreply 137October 21, 2022 2:49 AM

Al Jolson had mammy issues

by Anonymousreply 138October 21, 2022 3:04 AM

These people suck and really need to go away:

Britney Spears

Adele

Billy EyeCan'tUnderstandAWordYou'reMumbling

BeyonSayWHAT?

Gaga

Lizzo

Cardi BNothingButAStraightAssSkankyHo

Miley Cyrus

MeganTHEEHUGEASSStallion

Ariana GrandNO

...to name a few.

by Anonymousreply 139October 21, 2022 3:31 AM

Many people would fight me to the death based on the comments in the recent Kim Carnes thread, but I think she is/was a great singer.

by Anonymousreply 140October 21, 2022 3:47 AM

[quote]Prince was never as good again without the Revolution

He was excellent during his last 10 years. The super bowl performance is probably the best ever. And his 2009 Montreux Jazz festival performance is just mind blowing. He was a real musician and artist and a guitar God!

by Anonymousreply 141October 21, 2022 5:43 AM

[quote] Courtney [Love] was the opposite—she was really good with words but was a marginal guitarist at her peak, and after becoming famous got lazy and devolved to the point that she could hardly hammer her way through a basic three-chord song.

I think Courtney Love was just lazy about learning / practicing guitar. In an interview, she said that Nancy Wilson (Heart) had her own bedroom (whereas CL did not). Therefore, Nancy had a place to practice guitar and get better at it.

I play rudimentary guitar and was lazy about practicing, so I never progressed.

by Anonymousreply 142October 21, 2022 5:51 AM

As I get older, I appreciate the Eagles and Don Henley's singing voice more and more. I used to hate Don Henley's voice. It's not the prettiest or grittiest or manliest voice, but he sings on key, while drumming.

I actually like old school country music and the Eagles are, largely, country music. Don Henley has a bit of a twang that shows up in certain songs.

by Anonymousreply 143October 21, 2022 5:54 AM

R142 Courtney has often said she wanted to be the "quiet evil genius" in a band—as in the virtuosic, mysterious guitar player—but that she ended up singing because she was the only one with the "nerve" to do it. I think those are probably her honest feelings to some degree, as much of an attention whore as she is. And, to be frank, she doesn't have the personality to suit the role. She is naturally bawdy, charismatic, and far more suited to be a front person, despite the fact that she was never a great vocalist. Still, her voice was always powerful even with all her technical flaws, and she managed to polish it up quite a bit on "Celebrity Skin". If you listen to that record next to Hole's debut, they almost sound like two entirely different people—on the first album, she sounds like an unhinged feral animal (in a good way IMO). Just pure, undiluted rage.

As far as guitar goes, most people can learn the basics of it with a little practice, but it takes a lot of time and effort to evolve beyond that. Courtney was too distracted by tabloids, drugs, sex, and the celebrity machine to dedicate herself to becoming anything more than a pretty rudimentary guitarist—she was never going to be Nancy Wilson. She still had style with it though, which, to me, matters more than being able to shred. The most basic three-chord song can be incredibly moving (i.e. "Doll Parts"), which is frankly more important to me as a listener. Anyone with working ears can usually discern when something musical is really coming from the heart, and Courtney (for the most part) always laid it all out on the table.

by Anonymousreply 144October 21, 2022 6:04 AM

Nirvana, meh,

Not bad at all, a soundtrack to college, and I understand those enthralled with them. But, to me, they were a decent but not spectacular band who hit at the right time.

by Anonymousreply 145October 21, 2022 6:05 AM

Prime Madonna - debut through Ray of Light or Music - was great. Yes, she's insufferable now, and no, she was never a "great singer." But she was a wonderful pop artist for along time.

by Anonymousreply 146October 21, 2022 6:08 AM

Talking Heads aren't as broadly great as jizzed about often. Of course they have wonderful songs and albums, but they're inventory of great music isn't as deep as made out.

by Anonymousreply 147October 21, 2022 6:10 AM

R144, I don't mind a 3-chord song. And you're right, C. Love is a good front person. Despite her limited vocal range, I think her voice is good for rock.

Madonna is the worst "guitarist." Always playing the same chord. Of all the objectionable things about Madonna, this is what I hate about her the most. She uses a guitar like a prop and it's insulting to anyone who actually learned to play guitar. Ugh!!!

by Anonymousreply 148October 21, 2022 6:11 AM

"U2 is the single most overrated band of my Gen X generation."

They're an enigma to me (I'm Gen X). Way back they were a legit college rock/alt rock band, then there was the interim period when they were crossing over and then they became the biggest band in the world. Overall I agree they're overrated, but there's a lot of good stuff there.

by Anonymousreply 149October 21, 2022 6:12 AM

R147 I fucking hate the Talking Heads and David Byrne in general. I am not sure I can even fully articulate why, but I find him and his music completely obnoxious, soulless, and insufferable. My loathing for that band is a hill I will gladly die on.

by Anonymousreply 150October 21, 2022 6:13 AM

R148 I 100% agree, but C. Love is guilty of this in her later career as well. I have seen her live several times in the last decade or so, and she was miming chords and had her guitar turned way down and buried in the mix. A lot of people probably wouldn't be able to tell, but for anyone who knows how to play, it's obvious. That aside, her live shows were fantastic.

by Anonymousreply 151October 21, 2022 6:16 AM

Many people educated in music with lifelong skills and talent are boring...

often they split into four primary categories

unable or unwilling to work with the commercial industry -- some have lengthy careers but often those of this variety never achieve great and lasting commerical success. Many actively eschew it.

if they work in formal music or musical theatre, it's highly competitive and they have a much shorter shelf life... those industries are much more structured and has greater personal demands. They have very little control over their careers outside of side projects. Most burn out before they ever achieve "success" and the ones that do tend to veer towards coming off as sociopaths.

then you've got the historians, which are often performing educators and activists... but despite what commmercial successes they may have, their primary work is often of the non profit variety. . . and not the cause of the week type. More the dreary, dusty tomes, museum types. And much of the public desires mind-free entertainment. . . the emotive, aesthetics, sense stimulating, not the intellectual.

then you have the commercial. Most really only got famous as a school project. It was never their intention to become "famous," so they bail after the first album or two and use it as means to pay for their education or move more quickly into their 'professional' field, such as education or the technical side of the industry. Also, quite a few dancers in this category that never became known for dance. So, they fade out of public view.. or worse yet, become like the majority of commercial artists and abandon everything they know for the trends, often succumbing to excesses of celebrity. . . and crash and burn that way.

many classically and professionally trained.. lack imagination, innovation and often just the taste level to succeed. There's many great technical singers and musicians but you'd swear they're somewhere on the spectrum because they never connect with the material. They require conductors and directors, editors, a team of people to guide them through even the baby steps of a single song. (one example, I was surprised how quickly Patina Miller got a major role because if you had ever caught her university performances, they had to painstakingly explain the motivations behind virtually every song. She was way too serious and couldn't grasp humour at all.)

While we recognize the many problems of the untrained, self taught and autotune counterparts, often such performers break even or even sink lower... because they didn't leave any room for themselves to grow.

by Anonymousreply 152October 21, 2022 6:20 AM

Blondie is cool AF, but not that great outside of a handful of songs.

by Anonymousreply 153October 21, 2022 6:23 AM

Tina was better with Ike than solo. She as a true superstar, but a lot of it was schlock - and not good schlock.

by Anonymousreply 154October 21, 2022 6:25 AM

You're completely right R152. I have always felt that there was a metaphysical or spiritual aspect to music that even the most proficient and talented singers/musicians can be completely lacking in. Impeccable instrumentation and a flawless voice don't mean much to me if I can't sense a soul in it, and this is often the downfall of people who fall into those categories. I think the problem, especially with those who have extensive training, is that they are seeking an a sort of mathematical perfection more than they are trying to connect, be it with themselves, the material, or their audience.

by Anonymousreply 155October 21, 2022 6:27 AM

[quote] He (Prince) was excellent during his last 10 years.

Wait, what? He was Kanye West Light once he rebelled against Warner Bros. and became a Jehova's Witness. He came after fansites for using copyrighted material of his and disavoved the music that made him famous for being too sexual. Kevin Smith did a bit about him being hired by Prince to do film a concert documentary. Prince wasn't right or excellent for at least 20 years before his passing. Religion and the fight over owning his own music catalogue fucked him up.

by Anonymousreply 156October 21, 2022 8:42 AM

Anyone could compose popular rap "music" with good promotion.

by Anonymousreply 157October 21, 2022 8:46 AM

Prince, like Talking Heads, I also find insufferable (and unlistenable). Pretentious, overwrought shit.

by Anonymousreply 158October 21, 2022 11:07 AM

[quote]Hole is the single most underrated band of my Gen X generation.

Whatever one thinks of Courtney Love, there was something raw and furious captured on Live Through This that, to me, is the epitome of rock and roll, and has rarely ever been heard from female performers.

[quote]I think the problem is that most people got introduced to the song through Shreck, which cut out all of the sexual parts and most of the religious parts, or on TV shows that play them during funeral scenes and stuff like that

This is what I meant about how many of the people who've covered the song since Jeff Buckley don't understand that it's about sex. They see it as some sort of spiritual thing but don't connect the dots. They've probably never even heard of Leonard Cohen. The end result is that I can't even listen to Buckley's version anymore because the residual schmaltz of other people's versions interferes....and it was his version that inadvertently led to all this in the first place.

by Anonymousreply 159October 21, 2022 11:18 AM

Yes, Prince was pretentious and the majority of his catalog is not that great. He had a handful of excellent songs, but most of them were just trash. And his production style sounds very dated.

by Anonymousreply 160October 21, 2022 2:08 PM

Hans Zimmer is overrated and hasn't written an exceptional score in years.

Rick Astley is a good singer and his first album was well done.

David Lee Roth was a better front man for Van Halen than Sammy Hagar. Hagar may be cooler, but all of Van Halen's best, most memorable songs are from the Roth era. And his personality/sound was a big reason why.

Keith Richards is a boring guitarist.

Patti Smith is only musically important in the minds of the people who write for Rolling Stone. For the general public, she was a one-hit wonder with a Springsteen song.

Shake Your Love by Debbie Gibson is a fun, well-crafted pop song.

No, they weren't 'real' disco, but the songs the Bee Gees did for the Saturday Night Fever have gorgeous, sparkling production that still sounds incredible over 40 years later.

I'm a Prince fan but I don't entirely disagree with R160. Prince absolutely put a lot of undercooked and subpar material out there alongside his good stuff. He also attempted to foster music careers for a number of people with no real musical talent (like Vanity) and I always thought that was weird.

by Anonymousreply 161October 21, 2022 3:00 PM

90s trip hop is timeless and music today doesn’t compare. Massive Attack, Bjork, Sneaker Pimps, Lamb, Portishead….

The 90s were the golden age of electronically influenced music without being so infused in every genre that it would just be called pop music or indie today.

by Anonymousreply 162October 21, 2022 3:02 PM

Alice in Chains was heavy metal, not grunge, by their own estimation. Pearl Jam and other bands were probably better than Nirvana in several different aspects, but Nirvana was the first to capture the zeitgeist. It's hard to imagine now given their oversaturation today, but Nirvana was a revelation that almost immediately wiped all the schlocky hair bands and other 80's crap off the board.

U2 leaves me cold. Their songs are well crafted and well played but, with the exception of Sunday Bloody Sunday, I wouldn't care to hear them again.

by Anonymousreply 163October 21, 2022 3:09 PM

I think the first 3 U2 albums are quite good, then they turned into an overblown boring arena band and Bono became positively insufferable.

by Anonymousreply 164October 21, 2022 3:36 PM

Can’t stand Bob Dylan. Pretentious and goofy from the decades of substance abuse.

by Anonymousreply 165October 21, 2022 3:39 PM

Carpenters had better harmonies than Abba, they just didn't go disco. Carpenters also had more of a variety of musical types than that which they are given credit. And fuck "poor" whiny ass Kurt Cobain for taking the time to bad mouth them in his "suicide" letter.

by Anonymousreply 166October 21, 2022 4:05 PM

the Carpenters, especially Karen, sucked rocks. She has one of the worst and most bland voice. Only just begun? Thank God it's over.

by Anonymousreply 167October 21, 2022 4:12 PM

R7 one of the first pop music groups?!

Where were you during the 1950s, Mars?!

Or did you forget the doo wop and girl groups that were there and dominating pop music before Lennon and Jagger?!

Was this limited to white Brit boys?!

Jesus. The Temptations, Little Anthony and the Inperials, Smoky Robinson and the Miracles, The Shirelles, The Crystal's, the Motown stable, the fucking BEACH BOYS!

And come to it, the Big Band groups fron the 30s and 40s were also the "pop music" of their era.

Duke Ellington and Benny Goodman and Glen Miller were also there before Lennon and Jagger.

I don't think the Beatles were overrated. They kept evolving and displayed immense growth and creativity.

As for the Stones, they rooted their music in the American blues sound. So did the Animals, so did Cream.

But one of the first pop groups?!

by Anonymousreply 168October 21, 2022 4:19 PM

I didn't mind Karen's voice as much as the Carpenters' insipid songs. I never bought a single one of their records until they put their greatest hits album out on SACD. I'd just bought an SACD player, and there was an absolute dearth of material to listen to. I ended up giving it to a friend whose musical tastes were of that treacly nature.

by Anonymousreply 169October 21, 2022 4:21 PM

R141 THANK YOU. Won't have another disparaging word put about His Royal Purple Badness.

Consider: he did the WELCOME 2 AMERICA Tour just 5 years before he collapsed and died. At the time, he was midway through his 50s, in immense physical pain and doped to the gills, recovering from the grief of losing a child, plus still mired in spiritual angst. Yet, still he played enormous crowds frequently and swung and shredded like a pro at the top of his game, not a foot wrong.

The only thing missing from the stereotypical Prince Experience in the final decade was the glitzy Rococo style and the flashy dance moves, but who even wants that from a middle-aged axeman? He moved with times, tried to change and keep up, creating fresh images, while also preserving the core sound and feel and message of his oeuvre, which ultimately is what people came to shows for. And even better, toward the end of his life, Prince embraced his roots and made sure to introduce his audiences to the history of the funk & rock n' roll he loved so much and that formed the person he became. Prince and his excellent bands always delivered this music, and then some.

Up until his end, Prince told crowds his only life aim was always simply to become a "super-bad/funky guitar player", but from his swagger and his flawless performances, even he had to know he was that and so much more--he'd become an icon, a phenom, illustrious in funk. Radio wasn't playing him in 21st Century, but so what? Radio plays shitty music, these days. In Prince's words: "I don't care, I don't care, never mind! *mindblowing solo*"

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by Anonymousreply 170October 21, 2022 4:22 PM

Her voice was wonderful but Whitney's overall discography was quite weak. Donna Summer's was much better.

by Anonymousreply 171October 21, 2022 4:26 PM

[quote] Prince attempted to foster music careers for a number of people with no real musical talent (like Vanity) and I always thought that was weird.

R161 Prince liked beautiful women, and had access to them, and wanted to be associated with them. He wanted that for his inner circle of friends, too.

The cocky, vain and forward lothario character of Morris Day (who the eponymous man played to the hilt, though Prince 'created' him) gives a good insight into the true tastes and desires of Prince that lurked beneath the shy, soft-spoken, doe-eyed femme-androgyne facade Prince liked to present himself as.

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by Anonymousreply 172October 21, 2022 4:28 PM

The only Prince song I'm sure I've heard is "Raspberry Beret," because Warren Zevon recorded it on his "Best of" album. The other day, I played another Prince song someone posted a link to on DL. I don't remember what it was, just that it did not impress.

by Anonymousreply 173October 21, 2022 4:29 PM

R7 let me guess, you are a Maroon 5 fan

by Anonymousreply 174October 21, 2022 4:31 PM

Siobhan Fahey's (from Bananarama) MGA Sessions album is one of the best albums of all time that nobody has heard. Its way better than Pet Sounds.

by Anonymousreply 175October 21, 2022 4:33 PM

Maria Callas was the star she is because of her personal life

by Anonymousreply 176October 21, 2022 4:34 PM

Prince was the only artist I have seen who stayed onstage too effing long! Maybe because I prefer vocalists. But I’ve seen him twice and left both times before he ended his set because he’d just go on and on…egads.

by Anonymousreply 177October 21, 2022 4:37 PM

Drake is the McDonalds of rap.

by Anonymousreply 178October 21, 2022 4:45 PM

OP, I don't know if Hey Now Hey is Aretha's best album in terms of her most cohesive (that might be Young, Gifted and Black) but it's certainly underappreciated. She really stretched on that album in a way I don't think she did again, possibly ever.

Her version of "Somewhere" is my favorite. The sense of loss and then hope at the end just makes me sob, every time.

I enjoy a lot of the Stones' earlier stuff, and their late 70s disco-tinged revival, but I agree that they are overrated. I appreciate a lot of classic rock, but the absolute worship that so many bands from that era get really chokes out discussion about so many other artists from both that era and later.

I love Phyllis Hyman so, so, SO much. I don't want to subtract from others to add to her glory but yes, she was also deeply underappreciated. She was one of many artists that the music industry just never "got" and tried for years to force into a space that wasn't for them.

So many unique women and voices that I've loved over the years where either their sound wasn't "commercial enough" or their appearance mystified the PR douchebags, since they couldn't put them in fishnet stockings, etc. That's a list that includes artists like Kirsty MacColl, Jonatha Brooke, Judee Sill, Debora Iyall of Romeo Void, Alison Moyet, Tracey Thorn of Everything But The Girl, and so many others. And Phyllis is on that list, too.

by Anonymousreply 179October 21, 2022 4:46 PM

[quote] The best band live, ever, was the Replacements.

Their music was great, but I could only take so much of the lead singer's voice.

And I don't need a lead singer to sound smooth and studio perfect. But for some reason his voice just didn't work for me. (I'm glad others enjoyed.)

by Anonymousreply 180October 21, 2022 4:48 PM

HATE the Beatles.

by Anonymousreply 181October 21, 2022 4:49 PM

[quote]Siobhan Fahey's (from Bananarama) MGA Sessions album is one of the best albums of all time that nobody has heard. Its way better than Pet Sounds.

I've never heard, or even heard of, this album, r175. I'm listening now on YT, and my first impression is that I like it, except for her whisperthroat vocals. I like the first song, though, tunewise and because of the percussion instrument(s). The second song is no replacement for "You Still Believe in Me," however.

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by Anonymousreply 182October 21, 2022 4:50 PM

R181 shitehawk!

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by Anonymousreply 183October 21, 2022 5:08 PM

Hole had one very good album (Live Through This which Billy Corgan helped with a lot) but the rest of their discography is meh.

90% of Prince’s songs are filler.

Pet Shop Boys should be spoken about in the same esteem as the Beatles. Speaking of….

The Beatles are both overrated by fanatics and underrated by detractors.

White gays overrate the fuck out of Britney’s Blackout and Katy’s Teenage Dream which both sound extremely dated today.

Ed Sheeran is cancer in the music industry.

Taylor Swift is held up as an amazing songwriter by this generation solely due to a dearth of artists that write their own music.

When it comes to music, the majority of the populace observes the obvious and declares it genius. There have been very few true geniuses throughout music history.

Most artists only have one good album in them.

by Anonymousreply 184October 21, 2022 5:14 PM

Reggaeton (Bad Bunny, Maluma etc.) is garbage.

by Anonymousreply 185October 21, 2022 7:15 PM

Hole had two good albums, but otherwise agree with R184 on that point.

And....

I wouldn't say 90 percent of Prince's stuff is filler, but it's a big number, maybe 50 percent. He was so prolific and some of it, clearly, should have stayed in the can.

PSB is very good and very inventive but their range is somewhat limited.

by Anonymousreply 186October 21, 2022 7:29 PM

[quote] Prince attempted to foster music careers for a number of people with no real musical talent (like Vanity)

I think he saw a sort of cool factor, thinking these women were capable of a Julie London/Nancy Sinatra thing, that they could sing and be beautiful. It didn't really work for most of the true "proteges" he mentored.

Any woman that worked with Prince often gets labeled as his protege, when Wendy Melvoin, Lisa Coleman and even Sheila E. had their own talents and were his collaborators.

by Anonymousreply 187October 21, 2022 7:32 PM

Radio Head were and are grossly overrated.

by Anonymousreply 188October 21, 2022 7:39 PM

R140 Kim Carnes was a fantastic singer/songwriter! If you can get beyond Bette Davis Eyes (many refuse to do) and are not turned off by her naturally raspy vocals, her catalog is filled with music gems throughout her A&M and EMI catalog.

by Anonymousreply 189October 21, 2022 7:50 PM

Lou Reed and Patti Smith were minimally talented, they were just scenesters from NY.

by Anonymousreply 190October 21, 2022 7:51 PM

Madonna’s mother should have gotten a D&C.

by Anonymousreply 191October 21, 2022 7:52 PM

Radiohead is too sophisticated for most unsophisticated palates.

by Anonymousreply 192October 21, 2022 8:03 PM

Musically speaking Patsy Cline had far more in common with Nat King Cole than with Hank Williams

by Anonymousreply 193October 21, 2022 8:16 PM

Prince was great LIVE post-commercial peak. I totally agree with that. He was excellent live performer basically his entire career - in any number of settings. But the latter career releases were a lot of crap. Some interesting experimentation and a few gem songs here and there, but overall I think the albums are very subpar for him.

by Anonymousreply 194October 21, 2022 8:39 PM

[quote] Musically speaking Patsy Cline had far more in common with Nat King Cole than with Hank Williams

Maybe Willie Nelson, as well. WN wrote "Crazy," made popular by Cline.

by Anonymousreply 195October 21, 2022 8:49 PM

[quote] White gays overrate the fuck out of Britney’s Blackout and Katy’s Teenage Dream which both sound extremely dated today.

Add "Artpop" to that list. Jesus, Gen Z white gays have the worst music taste imaginable.

by Anonymousreply 196October 21, 2022 10:12 PM

[quote] Avril Lavigne can be quite a thrilling performer.

He was a frube. She needed more calcium in her diet to make her bones grow stronger. Can I make it any more obvious

by Anonymousreply 197October 22, 2022 12:36 AM

[quote]White gays overrate the fuck out of Britney’s Blackout and Katy’s Teenage Dream which both sound extremely dated today.

Could NEVER understand the Katy Perry love. Her "singing" is awful (ie she CAN'T sing), she started off with two stupid songs about gay people that were borderline offensive, and yet gay people love her? I don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 198October 22, 2022 12:39 AM

R198 I find a lot of gays have worse music taste than redneck men

by Anonymousreply 199October 22, 2022 12:43 AM

Todd Rundgren is a God.

by Anonymousreply 200October 22, 2022 12:45 AM

Britney Spears really was the beginning of the end for the diva as a legit gay icon. Beyonce, Lady Gaga and Aguilera (none of who I like) are better gay icons than she is but I think they are the last legit divas to be icon. The rest like Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, etc. have 0 allure. They don't have the combination of wit, sass and attitude that made previous divas and actresses gay icons.

by Anonymousreply 201October 22, 2022 12:45 AM

Best song ever.

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by Anonymousreply 202October 22, 2022 12:46 AM

that should say "last divas to be legit gay icons".

by Anonymousreply 203October 22, 2022 12:46 AM

r198, I loved "Teenage Dream" when Blaine and the Warblers sang it to Kurt. I knew nothing of Katy Perry's skin-tight jeans until a couple of years later.

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by Anonymousreply 204October 22, 2022 1:06 AM

Patti Smith is definitely of limited talent, and I have always felt she falls more under the category of "performance artist" than she does musician. Still, she does what she does very well, so I have trouble dragging her, despite how annoying some of her fans are. I saw a clip on YouTube a few years ago from a talkshow she went on in Sweden(?), and she performed a new song that consisted of her strumming an open D-chord for five minutes straight. For some reason the insufferable Seth Meyers was there, and throughout the entire performance he had a forced, pathetic fawning expression that made me want to puke. All that said, I do like a lot of Smith's music. This live performance of "Gloria" from the late '70s is some of the rawest rock and roll I've seen—completely captivating.

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by Anonymousreply 205October 22, 2022 3:39 AM

I never heard about Katy Perry and Britney Spears being gay icons.

Katy Perry sounds like she's yelling. Yes, she can yell and "sing" loudly. It's not flat or off-key, but it's not pleasant at all. In fact, the Firework song is irritating.

by Anonymousreply 206October 22, 2022 3:56 AM

"It's not about the people who left Motown, but about the people that came back. And tonight, everybody came back." (Diana Ross, in NBC 1983 "Motown 25: Yesterday, Today & Forever" TV special)

by Anonymousreply 207October 22, 2022 5:13 AM

Adele is a very very mediocre singer with quite a limited range.

Stevie Wonder is probably the best singer-songwriter alive; he deserved all the accolades Michael Jackson got.

by Anonymousreply 208October 22, 2022 5:17 AM

[quote] Stevie Wonder is probably the best singer-songwriter alive; he deserved all the accolades Michael Jackson got.

Yes!!!!

He eventually hit a wall, too, around the time of In Square Circle but by that time he'd written so much he could be excused if the well ran a bit dry. (It was also the 80s, and a lot of artists struggled with the changes to prevailing music styles in that decade.)

I'll save my opinion of MJ and his music and just say that, while his performances and videos were undoubtedly memorable and his performances were a key part of the success of all of it, it's important to note that Rod Temperton wrote a big chunk of Michael's biggest hits, and was never quite credited for his role. (Then again, most of today's stars put their names on songs where they might have added an "and" or an "umm.")

by Anonymousreply 209October 22, 2022 5:22 AM

Liz Phair's Exile In Guyville is the best album of the 90s. I love OK Computer, Nevermind and other notables. But Exile is a perfect album and it perfectly incapsulates the decade.

Elliott Smith's best songs are better than Paul Simon's best songs.

The Monkees have some great fucking songs, from Daydream Believer to Pleasant Valley Sunday.

Gaga is the best mainstream pop star since Madonna. She can do it all.

Tom Petty, who was never the biggest star or the voice of any generation, somehow wrote the most timeless songs compared to any of his contemporaries. His songs are like comfort food.

Donna Summer's I Feel Love is the single best dance song of all time.

The only newer artist I can stand is Phoebe Bridgers. (And that's probably because she loves Elliott Smith!)

by Anonymousreply 210October 22, 2022 5:53 AM

R210 I mostly agree, except for Phoebe Bridgers. Her music does nothing for me and she strikes me as a self-satisfied twat.

by Anonymousreply 211October 22, 2022 5:55 AM

R208, six months or so ago I was eating at a fancy restaurant in LA and Stevie Wonder was sitting next to me. I never get starstruck. But man did I ever that night! It's easy to forget how many amazing songs that man wrote and performed. Totally agree with your sentiment.

R211, I didn't say I loved her. I said I can stand her! The bar is very, very low.

by Anonymousreply 212October 22, 2022 5:57 AM

R139 Can you just openly admit that you hate women and call it a night?

by Anonymousreply 213October 22, 2022 5:58 AM

[quote]Ed Sheeran is cancer in the music industry.

Don't forget Taylor Swift. I was in a store today, which wasn't music oriented or youth oriented. I heard her awful voice, then noticed the cover of her new album was on display. I was like "WTF??" The LP was played the entire time I was shopping. It was excruciating!

Is this how far her publicists are going, trying to get that caterwauling promoted everywhere?

by Anonymousreply 214October 22, 2022 6:05 AM

R214, I am not convinced that Taylor and Ed aren't the same person. Both write the most generic, basic songs ever composed... and yet people seem to absolutely love them. And not just in a flash in the pan sort of way. Or lightning in a bottle, one hit/album wonder sort of way.

Years and years of their crappy songs just set the world and radio waves on fire.

It's beyond strange to me. Most big time pop stars I can get, even if they're not my thing. But not either of them,

by Anonymousreply 215October 22, 2022 6:32 AM

R214 Taylor is as insipid as they come, and depends on her cult of mentally-challenged twentysomething girls who have a pathetic nostalgia for her because they discovered her music in middle school. Fittingly, Taylor herself has the emotional intelligence (and probably intellect in general) of a middle schooler. The smoke cloud of accolades and cultural currency that has been blown up her ass is appalling.

by Anonymousreply 216October 22, 2022 6:33 AM

For all of the Taylor Swift hate, I love her song “Don’t Blame Me” off of Reputation. It’s all in the chords and melody in the chorus. The verses are forgettable.

But she writes emotionally stunted songs—I don’t disagree. That said, she writes her own music and lyrics and plays instruments, which is more than most pop stars. She has learned to sell the shit out of her brand and albums, etc. Her fans will buy her fake journals, multiple copies of the same album with just different art, etc. It’s crazy—she must have a massive PR/marketing team.

by Anonymousreply 217October 22, 2022 6:54 AM

[quote]Katy Perry sounds like she's yelling.

Exactly. I remember years ago someone reviewing her "Teenage Dream" song and imitating her by just yelling: YOU! MAKE! ME! FEEL! LIKE! I'M! LIVING! A! TEEN! AGE! DREAM! and quite honestly it was hard to tell the difference.

by Anonymousreply 218October 22, 2022 7:17 AM

R218 she totally does—she's oftentimes only half-singing, if that. Her vocal delivery has always been pretty uninspired and flat-sounding, but it wasn't something that was at the forefront of my attention because the music was catchy and distracted me from her substandard voice. She does have a number of really solid pop songs in her catalog though. I can't stomach Taylor Swift, but I find Katy Perry listenable as far as pop music goes.

by Anonymousreply 219October 22, 2022 7:26 AM

[quote]Tom Petty, who was never the biggest star or the voice of any generation, somehow wrote the most timeless songs compared to any of his contemporaries. His songs are like comfort food.

Tom Petty was indeed a big star when Damn the Torpedoes and Hard Promises charted, then again with Into the Great Wide Open. He was (and still is) openly admired by just about every rock musician. Pettyfest sells out on both coasts in record times every year.

by Anonymousreply 220October 22, 2022 7:50 AM

R220, I never claimed he wasn't a big star. I said he wasn't the biggest star. He wasn't the front man in "the biggest band in the world".

So when Damn the Torpedos came out? Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, ACDC, Pink Floyd and others were all bigger.

When Great Wide Open came out, he was up against Nirvana, Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Guns N Roses.

I LOVE both those albums, btw. And I love Tom Petty. (Wildflowers is particularly great.)

But he was more the tortoise than the hare. He was slow and steady. And his songs, so many of them, sound just as good now as they did in the 70s, 80s, or 90s or whenever they were released. They're timeless. Close to perfect rock songs that also have a universal appeal and yet aren't lame pop.

That was my point.

by Anonymousreply 221October 22, 2022 9:21 AM

[quote]Prince wasn't right or excellent for at least 20 years before his passing. Religion and the fight over owning his own music catalogue fucked him up.

His religious trip was crazy and I'm sure he was crazy because of it, but it didn't negatively influence his music at all.

Prince & 3RDEYEGIRL perform 'She's Always In My Hair' at Arsenio Hall, around 2013 I guess.

I agree, his work with The New Power Generation was great and that afterwards he did a lot of tacky commercial stuff, that I for one didn't really care about. But his last years were absolutely brilliant.

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by Anonymousreply 222October 22, 2022 11:10 AM

[R161] Prince liked beautiful women, and had access to them, and wanted to be associated with them. He wanted that for his inner circle of friends, too.

I understand that. But if I had talent on Prince's level, I would actually be offended by talentless people thinking they could do what I do and taking up space in the industry. He, on the other hand, went out of his way to elevate such people.

by Anonymousreply 223October 22, 2022 12:07 PM

r206 - I never heard about Katy Perry and Britney Spears being gay icons."

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 224October 22, 2022 12:43 PM

R217 = That song is a ripoff of Hozier's Take Me To Church. She also directly ripped off Lana del Rey's Without You for her song Wildest Dreams. The line "X marks the spot where we fell apart" that appears in one of her songs is ripped off from a Hilary Duff song.

by Anonymousreply 225October 22, 2022 3:00 PM

R216 I used to listen to this podcast called "The Hater." The host had a particular hatred for Taylr Swift, whom she referred to as, "the music industry's most-special little unicorn." In one episode she said that Swift has, "the mentality of a 13-year-old in a sticker." Which is the perfect description of Swift.

by Anonymousreply 226October 22, 2022 3:30 PM

I love Tom Petty! He was pretty much the first rock guy of his era to embrace music videos as an artform and had a lot of creative videos as a result.

by Anonymousreply 227October 22, 2022 3:32 PM

The biggest tip-off about Taylor Swift's maturity was her reaction to a joke Tina Fey and Amy Poehler made about her at the golden globes. Fey and Poehler made a joke about Taylor dating several guys, saying "you stay away from Michael J Fox's son! Or go for it....no, you need some 'me' time." Here is what Taylor had to say about the joke. Notice how extreme the quote she is referring to is versus the relative innocence of the joke that was told.

[quote] In talking about mean girls in general and in response to when Fey and Poehler mocked her at the Golden Globes, Swift told the magazine, "You know, Katie Couric is one of my favorite people because she said to me she had heard a quote that she loved, that said, 'There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women.'" The quote is actually a Madeleine Albright original. The former secretary of state said it during a 2006 keynote speech at a WNBA All-Decade team "Celebrating Inspiration" luncheon in New York City.

by Anonymousreply 228October 22, 2022 4:14 PM

[quote] OP, I don't know if Hey Now Hey is Aretha's best album in terms of her most cohesive (that might be Young, Gifted and Black) but it's certainly underappreciated. She really stretched on that album in a way I don't think she did again, possibly ever.

Yup, totally agree. She was afraid of it's comparetive failure so she never took risks like that again. I think that three album stretch--Spirit in the Dark; Young, Gifted and Black; Hey Now Hey--is the greatest stretch of albums she put out. It beats her 60s stuff for me. The Sparkle soundtrack is also criminally underrated, "Someting He Can Feel" is a masterpiece.

by Anonymousreply 229October 22, 2022 4:29 PM

Babs can't sing and lost her voice by the mid 60s. She knows it.

by Anonymousreply 230October 22, 2022 4:40 PM

R213 Can you just admit you have bad taste and blindly "stan" artists for everything except for actual music, and just call it a night?

by Anonymousreply 231October 22, 2022 9:39 PM

R229 Agree on "Sparkle" - it was definitely a great collection of songs.

Some of her late 70s stuff had interesting elements, but it just seemed to be at the point where things were changing - R&B was changing, disco was on the scene - and I think Aretha really struggled with finding a groove and the right material.

by Anonymousreply 232October 22, 2022 9:45 PM

Not a fan of Taylor Swift and don't care for her music. Anyway, I'm not her target demo but I think she's a genius as far as marketing herself. I thought her young fans will move on but it seemed they stuck with her and most likely, even adding lots of newer fans. Her latest album is breaking all sorts of streaming records, exceeding all expectations.

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by Anonymousreply 233October 22, 2022 10:00 PM

Quote:. " john fogerty has one of the worst voices in rock music and it makes creedence clearwater borderline unlistenable. ,"

He sounds as if he has a speech impediment.

by Anonymousreply 234October 22, 2022 10:13 PM

The Rolling Stones are easily the most overrated British invasion band.

I so agree with this. There was only one performer and one band that Mick. Jagger feared and that was Freddie Mercury and Queen . TRS were stale and outdated compared to them and they knew this. Freddie blew them the fuck away in EVERY way.

by Anonymousreply 235October 22, 2022 10:18 PM

I don't count anything after "The Final Cut" as a Pink Floyd album. They should have called it quits when Roger Waters left to spend more time with his kids. Dave Gilmour wasn't even part of the original band and he thought he could be the leader? Ha! Lovely voice and decent guitar playing but basically hired talent who never came close to filling Syd's shoes.

by Anonymousreply 236October 22, 2022 10:28 PM

R233, that's just it. Most pop music is popular because of hype, marketing,controversy, etc. Let's see how many people still care about Taylor Swift 30 years from now.

by Anonymousreply 237October 22, 2022 10:34 PM

Another vote for Duran Duran not getting enough credit. A great band.

Foo Fighters get way too much acclaim.

Alicia Keyes makes my ears bleed.

by Anonymousreply 238October 22, 2022 10:34 PM

[quote] Alicia Keyes makes my ears bleed.

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by Anonymousreply 239October 22, 2022 10:38 PM

I could not name one Beyonce song , even at gunpoint. I only know Poker Face by TS because of this:

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by Anonymousreply 240October 22, 2022 10:51 PM

R240 occasionally that evil little shit Cartman had a fantastic comeback.

"Nobody likes it, but everyone's too busy to do anything about it."

"I'm *not* too busy, Stan."

"You're not?"

"No, I just don't care. At all."

by Anonymousreply 241October 22, 2022 10:58 PM

I fucking despise the Led Zeppelin song ' Stairway to Heaven.' Those are fighting words were I live but just hate that song because it seemed played on a never ending loop when I was growing up.

Stairway to Heaven and ANY Marisa Carey song would cause me to drive off of the damn road, desperately trying to change the music.

by Anonymousreply 242October 22, 2022 11:04 PM

R233 I just read she's likely to have all ten spots in the Billboard 100 next week. Which will give her more top 10 singles than Madonna - the current record holder (at 38).

Just insane.

by Anonymousreply 243October 22, 2022 11:46 PM

[quote] There was only one performer and one band that Mick. Jagger feared and that was Freddie Mercury and Queen .

Freddie Mercury had that real singing voice (could hit high notes) and stage presence. He was sexy.

by Anonymousreply 244October 23, 2022 12:02 AM

This isn’t opinion, it’s fact: the Beatles were terrible musicians who couldn’t play their instruments.

by Anonymousreply 245October 23, 2022 12:05 AM

I dislike musicals, and musical theatre in general.

That should be controversial here I think, no?

I do quite like the Rolling Stones, prefer their earlier stuff pre 80's

by Anonymousreply 246October 23, 2022 12:19 AM

I don't like musicals or musical theatre either

by Anonymousreply 247October 23, 2022 12:21 AM

The Cure is better than any 80s band mentioned here (except the Replacements).

by Anonymousreply 248October 23, 2022 12:30 AM

[quote] I fucking despise the Led Zeppelin song ' Stairway to Heaven.' Those are fighting words were I live but just hate that song because it seemed played on a never ending loop when I was growing up.

Elvis Costello has said that Led Zeppelin is "embarrassing" to listen to. I have to agree that some of Led Zep's songs are overwrought and cheesy.

However, I did develop new appreciation for Stairway to Heaven. That intro is so damn long, when you hear the first beat of a drum (a few minutes into the song), it's such a relief and it makes you appreciate the drums.

by Anonymousreply 249October 23, 2022 12:42 AM

[quote]the Beatles were terrible musicians who couldn’t play their instruments.

Oh, yes they did. George Harrison was and is a well regarded guitarist, and Paul has been an acclaimed bassist. And that IS fact.

by Anonymousreply 250October 23, 2022 12:58 AM

Terri Gibbs is the best ever

by Anonymousreply 251October 23, 2022 1:24 AM

Billy Mackenzie is one of the most underrated singers of all time.

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by Anonymousreply 252October 23, 2022 1:58 AM

I really miss rock and pop dominating the airwaves, and the culture.

by Anonymousreply 253October 23, 2022 3:16 AM

Hey Jude goes on for too long

by Anonymousreply 254October 23, 2022 5:23 AM

[quote]Hey Jude goes on for too long

That's hardly an unpopular opinion.

by Anonymousreply 255October 23, 2022 5:44 AM

R243 = Why are random album cuts being counted in the Top 10? It makes no sense at all. Back then only official singles were eligible to chart. By the that logic almost all artists back then would have had way more Top 10 hits. For example, Britney selling over 1 million of Baby One More Time would have meant she should have occupied all Top 10 spots in the chart at the time.

Its complete BS and inaccurate gauge of what is a hit.

by Anonymousreply 256October 23, 2022 5:58 AM

Everyone who isn't George Michael is overrated. He was the perfect singer. Having said that, I have really been enjoying the new Taylor Swift and Carly Rae Jepsen albums this weekend.

by Anonymousreply 257October 23, 2022 6:09 AM

[quote] Hey Jude goes on for too long

But it's still great.

by Anonymousreply 258October 23, 2022 6:22 AM

[quote] I fucking despise the Led Zeppelin song ' Stairway to Heaven.' Those are fighting words were I live but just hate that song because it seemed played on a never ending loop when I was growing up.

I've wanted to write a blog post (yes, get a blog) about this for a while, because I hated that song and Led Zeppelin for years.

But seeing it performed by Heart at Kennedy Center Honors opened my ears, eyes and heart about it, and I realized it really was a great song, and so were some of their other songs.

I hated the suffocating ubiquitousness of classic rock and of that song, and the tedious, dumb dudes who I grew up around in the late 70s and early 80s that all sat in their basements, got high and listened to that shit for hours on end. Or got into their carpeted vans, with Yukon Jack filling up 2 liter Pepsi bottles, and driving around listening to that shit.

And there is still music those fools listened to that was terrible then and is still terrible now (Lynryd Sknyrd) but I have a new appreciation for Zep and for Pink Floyd, et al.

by Anonymousreply 259October 23, 2022 8:30 PM

[quote] Everyone who isn't George Michael is overrated

George Michael is one of the most overrated artists ever. He mined a great groove for a few years of soul infused pop, but his voice was always way over the top (Careless Whisper being an example of when he held back to glorious effect until later in the song).

I don't hate all of his music, but so much of what people rave about is not nearly as impressive as they seem to think.

by Anonymousreply 260October 23, 2022 8:32 PM

George Michael was as good a singer as his fans think he was, but his music is forgettable overall.

by Anonymousreply 261October 23, 2022 8:36 PM

Janet Jackson's career would have been over with or without the Superbowl. That stunt just made it happen earlier than it would have. It's not like she had massive popularity in other music markets the way her female peers did. When Madonna's career in America bombed after American Life, she could still rely on Europe, Latin America and parts of Asia. Janet couldn't do that.

by Anonymousreply 262October 23, 2022 8:38 PM

[quote]Foo Fighters get way too much acclaim.

This, this, a thousand times this! They aren't a bad band, but they certainly aren't worth comparing to TP& the Heartbreakers (I've seen that posted numerous times). Yes, Dave drummed for the Heartbreakers a few times, but that doesn't make his Everyman persona comparable to Tom's.

by Anonymousreply 263October 23, 2022 8:46 PM

I think Bob Dylan is absolutely brilliant, which apparently is an unpopular opinion here. His voice is far from beautiful, but I don't mind it at all amd think it works well with his style. Even if you hate him, his influence is immense; greater than perhaps any other musician mentioned here (with maybe a couple of exceptions)

by Anonymousreply 264October 23, 2022 9:04 PM

R262 Though I loathe the constant Janet negativity here, I tend to agree.

I wish Janet had gone more in the chill/ambient direction, something where she could have maintained a certain cool factor.

But age will eventually be a brick wall for most artists to hit. Even talented writers/singers like Erykah Badu doesn't sell much these days. The remaining record companies promote the <30 artists.

by Anonymousreply 265October 23, 2022 9:11 PM

R265, I think Janet is made fun of here just because of Janbot and how incessant they are with twisitng stats. I like Janet--frankly, I like her music more than her brother's--but a big reason she does so poorly on streaming is that she released such a small amount of material and she never had the global popularity of her peers.

by Anonymousreply 266October 23, 2022 9:15 PM

Most of Wagner sounds best played at a rambunctious pace on a riverboat calliope.

by Anonymousreply 267October 23, 2022 9:33 PM

I want to know how Michael Jackson and the Bee Gees maintain their high pitched voices. it's gotta be drugs, right?

by Anonymousreply 268October 23, 2022 10:01 PM

Tchaikovsky did not understand the string quartet form.

Brahms is needy marzipan pretending to be Beethoven-deep port.

Haydn still doesn't get enough credit.

Bach wrote some very irritating stinkers. VERY irritating. And he probably didn't write the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

The Zombies, The Hollies and The Kinks deserve a lot more respect.

by Anonymousreply 269October 23, 2022 10:23 PM

I think Tori Amos deserves more respect than she gets. She managed to be a sexual female performer without having to stoop to shock tactics and risque attire. And let's not forget about her talent. What a great piano player and she has written some great songs across some great albums. But it seems that critical appreciatiion of her slowly diminished with each subsequent album release after Little Earthquakes. I also think the Kate Bush comparisons are ridiculous and don't really make any sense to me. Tori deserves more of the acclaim that PJ Harvey received. I don't think time has been really kind to most of PJ's albums. I think the only two great albums she ever recorded are Rid of Me and Stories from the City. The rest of her work is very good but not on the same level. But back in the 90s, EVERY critic was acting like PJ Harvey was so incredible, as if they never heard a woman make rock music before.

by Anonymousreply 270October 23, 2022 10:28 PM

R270 Given the metrics you use to recognize Tori Amos, Chrissie Hynde was a sexier, more powerful presence, a better songwriter, better singer than Amos (or PJ Harvey). I've always been interested in how the zeitgeist filters how popular music is heard. Some music sound great for its time but fades over time. Some music gets better with age. I was a great PJ Harvey fan, but if I put on one of her albums now I can't make it to the end.

by Anonymousreply 271October 23, 2022 11:03 PM

R271, not sure I agree with Hynde being sexier or a better singer/songwriter than Amos but I can accept a differnt opinion. I also was a huge Harvey fan but I think the whole "Riot girl" thing greatly influence how many female rock bands and acts were perceived in the 90s (even the ones who weren't part of that movement). I don't think Amos or Harvey ever made an album as great as Exile in Guyville though. And it's funny because I think in the 00s after the back-to-back dissapointments of White Chocolate Space Egg and her self-titled album, Exile's status as one of the greatest 90s albums seemed to slip a bit. But by the next decade, I think its status picked up while Harvey's work has diminished.

by Anonymousreply 272October 23, 2022 11:10 PM

I love Terri Gibbs too - her one huge hit, Somebody's Knocking - Lord It's the Devil...

But I have her album and her voice is wonderful. She's blind but they photographed her on a piano looking down at a book or something. I think it was a no-no to be a blind woman in the industry.

by Anonymousreply 273October 23, 2022 11:52 PM

* Meant to reference R251...

by Anonymousreply 274October 23, 2022 11:53 PM

[quote]Given the metrics you use to recognize Tori Amos, Chrissie Hynde was sexier

Lol, no.

by Anonymousreply 275October 24, 2022 12:12 AM

". George Michael was as good a singer as his fans think he was, but his music is forgettable overall. "

I respectfully disagree. ' You Have Been Loved ' is one of the most beautiful songs ever recorded, imo. GM was also the only singer who nailed a Queen song. It is no minor accomplishment to do the late, great, Freddie Mercury justice. ( He also sang Elton's song better than Elton did, but that is a low bar.)

by Anonymousreply 276October 24, 2022 1:10 AM

I’d like to see Terri Gibbs eat Anne Murray’s pussy and asshole.

by Anonymousreply 277October 24, 2022 1:16 AM

[quote]I could not name one Beyonce song , even at gunpoint. I only know Poker Face by TS because of this:

Taylor Swift had nothing to do with Poker Face, that song was by Lady Gaga.

by Anonymousreply 278October 24, 2022 10:14 AM

R278- Yes, sorry , my mistake .

by Anonymousreply 279October 24, 2022 10:24 AM

[quote]Janet Jackson's career would have been over with or without the Superbowl. That stunt just made it happen earlier than it would have.

This is the truth. And here's some more truth: it's a mistake, generally speaking, for female musical artists to sexualize themselves heavily the way Janet, or Christina Aguilera, or Katy Perry have done. (Madonna is the notable exception.) It leaves them without mystique, ages badly and whatever male fans they pick up by doing it will drop them the minute they get married, have a baby or cut their hair, and move on to the next fantasy object. It leaves them nowhere to go. After you have someone talk about your swollen coochie on one of your songs, what else is there?

by Anonymousreply 280October 24, 2022 10:59 AM

Unpopular Music Opinions?

Siouxsie & The Banshees not being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a damn shame.

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by Anonymousreply 281October 24, 2022 12:22 PM

[quote] ‘You Have Been Loved’ is one of the most beautiful songs ever recorded, imo.

How I feel about ‘Precious Box’. Haunting vocals.

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by Anonymousreply 282October 24, 2022 1:30 PM

Here's an opinion that I know will be unpopular.

What disappoints me musically is what I see often from the <35 generation, and what I seem to be seeing a lot of here at the DL: the constant pitting of one artist against another where only one of them can be "The Best." And done most frequently - whether it's YouTube comment wars or DL threads - with female artists.

Tori Amos, Kate Bush, PJ Harvey, Liz Phair, the Pretenders and/or Chrissie Hynde - fuck, they are ALL amazing artists and I can't imagine my record collection missing any of them. Yes, some albums capture our ears or our hearts more than others. It's fun and worthwhile to discuss how much we may like or dislike any of their works. (For my money, Tori's first three albums are my favorites, I love most of PJ up to and including White Chalk, Kate's stuff has been almost uniformly appealing to me, WhiteChocolateSpaceEgg is an underappreciated gem, and Back On The Chain Gang is the finest pop song ever written.)

I just get so, so tired of the "So and so is the BEST!" There's a Carly Simon thread where people are either saying Carly is the best or shitting on Carly's music for Joni Mitchell and/or Carole King. JFC, seriously? They're all great. Joni's music resonates with me the most, but I mean, those three women have created so many memorable songs.......

by Anonymousreply 283October 24, 2022 3:55 PM

Flea is a more interesting, watchable and creative actor than he is a musician, though not more skilled. Sometimes chops are not enough.

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by Anonymousreply 284October 24, 2022 4:03 PM

R283 I understand your annoyance at unnecessarily and hyperbolically promoting an artist as "the greatest ever, so much better than X"... but "compare and contrast" is a way to analyze, and certainly a thread encouraging "unpopular music opinion" invites such hyperbole, no?

As an example of asserting an opinion that encourages argument: "Joni Mitchell, given both her vocal skills (she was a different vocalist in the 70s than the 60s, she was a different vocalist in the 90s than the 80s), her musicianship as a songwriter, and her poetic talents as a lyricist, was the best woman pop artist of the last 100 years. Prove me wrong."

I think her songwriting is so good, has "lasted" through all the shifting tastes of the decades, was so central to so many of several generations - that limiting the assertion to "female" is questionable. Perhaps only Dylan, Cohen, or Robert Hunter were in her league as lyricists/songwriters.

by Anonymousreply 285October 24, 2022 4:53 PM

[quote]Gangsta rap is in the top 3 worst things to ever happen to the Black community alongside Crack and actual real racism. To add on Black music has gotten progressively worse in the past 30 years and there will never be another James Brown, Barry white, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston Marvin Gaye etc. because younger Black generations lack the talent, drive and innovation of the past. Sadly and ironically hip hop will be the legacy of modern-day Black America while simultaneously being responsible for its downfall.

Nonsense. This is pure fire right here.

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by Anonymousreply 286October 24, 2022 5:20 PM

R285 Oh, that's a pet peeve of mine too.

Joni has been called "the best female" something or other many times but indeed, it's very limiting. She has the ego to believe her pantheon is with all artists, and she's absolutely right.

Read Tracey Thorn's book My Rock and Roll Friend, which covers some of her same frustrations about the way women in popular music are perceived.....how in some bands they will be ignored (if not completely erased) while the men are the focus of press articles and discussions about even the tiniest minutiae of their lives.

by Anonymousreply 287October 24, 2022 5:29 PM

R280, I was going to post something related to that but I forgot about it. But your post reminds me: women being semi-naked/naked in music videos or singing about racy topics is not empowering to women. It MAY be empowering to the woman who is singing about it but it is in no way empowering to women as a whole. I don't know why more people can't see that. I just read a reddit post claiming that Madonna was such a trailblazer for releasing the Sex book so that the door was opened for the likes Cardi B, Nicki Minaj, etc. Why is that even a good thing?! Do these women have anything interesting to say about anything aside from their vaginas? These women seem like permanent adolescents(Cardi B and Nicki should look at Madonna to see what happens when you can't get over the fact that you aren't sexy anymore).

by Anonymousreply 288October 24, 2022 11:18 PM

For the longest of time, I thought Miley Cyrus was crazy for wearing strap-ons on stage. But then one day I read a comment saying "Who can jerk off to her when she's wearing *that*?" and it started to make sense. She expressed herself in a way without it being titillating to straight men. She "deliberately" made herself ugly for the straight male gaze.

by Anonymousreply 289October 24, 2022 11:57 PM

[quote] She expressed herself in a way without it being titillating to straight men. She "deliberately" made herself ugly for the straight male gaze.

R289 much of Far Eastern female youth trend revolves around the same idea, probably due to their cultural norms about predatory men and young girls.

There's Sukeban, Gyaru/Ganguro/Yamanban, & Babydoll/Lolita (nothing to do with the Nabokov book) in Japan; Quánshī, Shamate, & Fei-zhu-liu in China; and the sudden trend in South Korea for girls and young women to ditch all makeup and restrictive or revealing clothes (called the 'Escape The Corset' movement), and to willingly segregate themselves or exclude men from their social spaces altogether.

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by Anonymousreply 290October 25, 2022 12:32 AM

Cunts who use the word "metrics" provide the most unsupportable music opinions.

Who cares about popularity?

by Anonymousreply 291October 25, 2022 2:53 PM

Popularity is interesting. It's awesome to see that The Beatles are STILL the biggest selling act ever and it's crazy to see just how much they sold. It's also really interesting to see where artists performed best--not all artists popular in America were appreciated in Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc. Personally, I think that stuff is interesting from a statistical point of view. But I'm also not dumb enough to think that something popular must be good. Shitney Spears anyone?

by Anonymousreply 292October 25, 2022 11:12 PM

Am not the Steinman Troll, but Jim was a genuinely great composer-lyricist, though everyone today just sees his work as embarrassing fromage & froth.

Think it threw people off that he had a broad sense of humour, that he was fascinated and repulsed in equal measure by sex, and that he used both in his work. He defied the normal boundaries of genre and radio-friendliness but in ways that were fun and accessible. Critics didn't know what to do with him.

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by Anonymousreply 293October 26, 2022 2:03 AM

Mending Wall by Chalk Circle was a great album overlooked due to typical bad Canadian management of artists at the time. The should have been a global success. Also, the lead singer’s voice was super. Better than bono in his heyday.

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by Anonymousreply 294October 26, 2022 5:16 AM

One example

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by Anonymousreply 295October 26, 2022 5:20 AM

And here.

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by Anonymousreply 296October 26, 2022 5:23 AM

R294 if I may add another overlooked 80s/90s Canadian band—the power-rock melodic AOR brilliance of Harem Scarem. They should be celebrated with all the major rock names of the period, but barely anyone has heard of them.

Their music has only just become available on streaming, and some of their catalogue is still missing, like my favourite single ‘Die Off Hard’ (one of their last ans hardest tracks).

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by Anonymousreply 297October 26, 2022 12:28 PM

[quote] I just read a reddit post claiming that Madonna was such a trailblazer for releasing the Sex book so that the door was opened for the likes Cardi B, Nicki Minaj, etc. Why is that even a good thing?!

It's interesting that all of the truly successful female rappers have been hypersexualized, even grotesquely so. Queen Latifah was always more respected than popular as a rapper. Even Missy Elliott had incredibly raunchy lyrics, though in her case there was probably some overcompensation to deflect speculation about her sexuality. But all in all, women in rap are basically strippers. there's nothing empowering about it.

by Anonymousreply 298October 26, 2022 2:07 PM

R298 clearly has not done her research...

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by Anonymousreply 299October 26, 2022 2:35 PM

How many albums has she sold, R299? Would any casual hip-hop fan know her? Because that's what I'm talking about. Not just respected like Latifah, but successful in terms of fame and money.

by Anonymousreply 300October 26, 2022 2:43 PM

R299 - R298 is quite accurate. One exception does not equal proof.

by Anonymousreply 301October 26, 2022 2:44 PM

[quote]They are. They're boring. I've always preferred The Who, The Kinks, The Hollies

The Hollies were the worst of that 60s Brits - those awful shrill voices and crappy songs "Hey Carrie Anne" and equally dreadful "On A Carousel" - another example.

The Who always seemed tuneless and very overrated. The Kinks were good but their songs get very boring after a while.

by Anonymousreply 302October 26, 2022 3:08 PM

Every opera written after Puccini and Strauss is unwatchable. But that's a popular opinion.

by Anonymousreply 303October 26, 2022 3:14 PM

German pop music is underrated.

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by Anonymousreply 304October 26, 2022 3:17 PM

R304 it’s not in Europe.

For a stretch of years in the 2000s you couldn’t get away from German pop.

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by Anonymousreply 305October 26, 2022 3:21 PM

[quote]But all in all, women in rap are basically strippers. there's nothing empowering about it.

Somethin' wrong with STRIPPIN'?!?!

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by Anonymousreply 306October 26, 2022 3:24 PM

I cant believe how long the rap thing has gone on. Fashions used to change but this one has gone on and on forever. And sampling!! Can these people actually write and sing a good song, you know, from scratch?

by Anonymousreply 307October 26, 2022 3:42 PM

R307, "rap" is not one thing. The general toolbox of rap/hip hop, like rock, is broad and deep enough to be used in an almost infinite number of musico-cultural contexts. African hip-hop isn't that surprising, perhaps; but Latin America and Asia are full of hip hop. French language hip hop is likely more popular in Europe than American hip hop. Britain.. well British-grown hip hop owns the charts there.

by Anonymousreply 308October 26, 2022 4:18 PM

R300 since you asked...

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by Anonymousreply 309October 26, 2022 4:22 PM

[quote] Britain.. well British-grown hip hop owns the charts there.

Fam!!!!

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by Anonymousreply 310October 26, 2022 4:26 PM

R298, the biggest exception to what you said is Lauryn Hill. I can't think of any other very popular female rappers who weren't sexual. And of course, Lauryn is an outlier because she sang and rapped at a time when few people were trying to do both. If being a sex object is so "empowering", I wonder why these women never STOP trying to be sexual or why they are constantly getting awful plastic surgery. If something is actually empowering in a positive way, I feel like there would be a point where they would be confident and at east with themselves and then move on to more serious music subjects. But they can't. Because it's all a load of shit.

by Anonymousreply 311October 26, 2022 10:48 PM

Billie Eilish SUCKS.

by Anonymousreply 312October 27, 2022 2:45 AM

[quote]"compare and contrast" is a way to analyze, and certainly a thread encouraging "unpopular music opinion" invites such hyperbole, no?

No.

by Anonymousreply 313October 27, 2022 6:08 AM

[quote]the biggest exception to what you said is Lauryn Hill. I can't think of any other very popular female rappers who weren't sexual.

I've never heard Lauryn referred to as a "rapper,' even when she was with the Fugees. She's always been referred to as a hip hop singer. Does she have some actual rap somewhere that you cam recommend?

by Anonymousreply 314October 27, 2022 6:15 AM

R314 Huh?

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by Anonymousreply 315October 27, 2022 4:16 PM

None of the #1s in the past ten years will be remembered decades from now.

by Anonymousreply 316October 27, 2022 5:53 PM

R316, that tends to be truth about even older songs as well. The best performing songs on Spotify from the 20th century are mostly ones that never hit number one (they are rock songs with some rap thrown in)

by Anonymousreply 317October 28, 2022 12:17 AM

R316 I disagree. Kate Bush's "Running Up That Hill" will.

by Anonymousreply 318October 28, 2022 4:11 AM

I'm so glad Kate is getting global recognition. She deserves it.

by Anonymousreply 319October 28, 2022 1:18 PM

R318, R316 said "#1" songs.

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by Anonymousreply 320October 28, 2022 1:48 PM

R316, At least let's have the list to peruse:

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by Anonymousreply 321October 28, 2022 1:50 PM

R318/R319 the popularity of that song and its ubiquity in current airplay is actually kind of ruining Kate for me. I was a casual and admiring fan before, now her voice and gimmick is beginning to grate on me.

by Anonymousreply 322October 28, 2022 2:29 PM

Miss R320 has STATED HER BOUNDARIES!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 323October 28, 2022 4:42 PM

R320 There is this thing called Google and the internets, eh Pookie?

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by Anonymousreply 324October 28, 2022 5:08 PM

^^I was moved to take a shit

by Anonymousreply 325October 28, 2022 5:30 PM

Thanks, r315. That album is considered hip hop to a lot people and I've never heard it called rap, so I didn't realize that's what you were referring to.

by Anonymousreply 326October 29, 2022 4:08 AM

People who aren't black shouldn't be saying the n word but no entertainers, not even black ones, should be able to use the n word in music. Music is meant for consumption and repeating. Think of how many times people repeat the lyrics of songs out loud. These artists who use the n word in their songs and then get pissed at non-black people for using the word while repeating the lyrics are just dim.

by Anonymousreply 327October 29, 2022 10:04 PM

Sheena Easton was one of the absolute best pop singers 1981-2000.

by Anonymousreply 328October 29, 2022 10:50 PM

The legend of Aretha is greater than her actual catalogue. she wasn't all that.

by Anonymousreply 329October 30, 2022 12:03 AM

Neneh Cherry's "Raw Like Sushi" is one of the great underrated albums.

by Anonymousreply 330October 30, 2022 12:27 AM

God I hate Aretha.

But love Gladys, Whitney, Dionne, Lena, Phyllis Hyman, Nina Simone, Holliday, Piaf, even tinny pop-icon Diana Ross. Even ok with Janis Joplin and she's pretty ragged -- but just can't get down with Aretha Franklin.

Oh well, good for her for making it so big.

by Anonymousreply 331October 30, 2022 1:24 AM

Oh and Tina Turner - she's the bomb.

by Anonymousreply 332October 30, 2022 1:28 AM

Tina Turner is queen

by Anonymousreply 333October 30, 2022 1:37 AM

I still don't know what Nickelback did to everybody. I still think Figured You Out is a good song.

by Anonymousreply 334October 30, 2022 2:14 AM

R286 unfortunately thats my city in that wretched piece of shit. Weve had dozens of "rising rap stars" killed here in the last 3 years.

by Anonymousreply 335October 30, 2022 3:40 AM

Drill rap is amazing, my dentist always has it on in his office!

by Anonymousreply 336October 30, 2022 4:27 AM

"You thought I was filling you?"

by Anonymousreply 337October 30, 2022 4:31 AM

It's not surprising that many DLers don't like the Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Those acts all have a strong straight guy vibe to them-- sort of why many DLers don't like shows like "Entourage."

Agree that many 80s acts are underrated, especially Joe Jackson, Elvis Costello and Squeeze. Boomer Classic Rock programmers never quite knew what to do with them and didn't really play them on Classic Rock stations but they all have great catalogs and great lyrics too.

Never quite got the hate for Nickelback either R334 - best theory I've heard was that it was at the beginning of online memes and many people jumped on the bandwagon to seem cool without ever actually knowing why. Their songs are no worse than anything else from that era. Creed got a similar reaction. I was in high school/college at that time and my friends and I have a theory that the backlash sort of killed off rock, that the record labels were afraid of promoting any rock acts, lest they be branded the new Nickelback, and so turned their attention to rap, boy bands, and emo. We are half joking, but the truth is there really haven't been any very successful new rock bands in the past 20 years.

Agree that the Beatles aren't all that, kind of treacly, but my impression of them is likely jaded because my intro was in preschool singing Yellow Submarine and Oh-bla-di-bla-da.and shaking tambourines while the teachers played guitar.

Agree that the Eagles are not as bad as they've been made out to be-- songs like "Lyiin Eyes" hold up, lyrics are well done.

Agree that Fleetwood Mac and Billy Joel are meh, not awful but just nothing special.

Matthew Sweet gets overlooked - he had quite a string of great songs in the 90s and Girlfriend is an amazing album.

The Chili Peppers keep making great music even though they've gotten old. Really one of the last rock bands doing anything new -- check out their Unlimited Love LP from this summer.

Kid Cudi has some the best lyrics of any hip hop/rap artist --my favorite by far, and he's got a good sized cult following even if not known on DL

A lot of current alternative is just soft and whiny, I miss driving beat and loud guitars.

by Anonymousreply 338October 30, 2022 11:09 AM

[quote] A lot of current alternative is just soft and whiny, I miss driving beat and loud guitars.

This is the generation that considers Imagine Dragons a great rock band. I would expect nothing more. I like The Shins but I see them as the turning point for indie music where it became so wimpy and sensitive. I miss the days of Exile in Guyville or Siamese Dream.

by Anonymousreply 339October 30, 2022 4:13 PM

R338, reading the first line from your post reminds me of how much I love Guns N' Roses, Pink Floyd, The Doors, etc. but HATE the Stones with a passion. Not sure why. But The Stones have never impressed aside from a handful of songs. I prefer the actual Chicago blues artists to them.

by Anonymousreply 340October 30, 2022 4:14 PM

[quote] This is the generation that considers Imagine Dragons a great rock band

Not really R339 - that just sounds like Eldergay Get Off My Lawnism

Kids know that Imagine Dragons and Maroon 5 are pop bands, no real musical chops. No one thinks they are a great rock band.

by Anonymousreply 341October 30, 2022 4:45 PM

R338 (Liked Nickelback and Creed... no need to take other opinions seriously.

Dude, a message from those who lived the life in real time: Jagger was a swishing, dangerous, gender-bending shaman... queer hippie boys knew what was up and world opened up.

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by Anonymousreply 342October 30, 2022 6:45 PM

r342 Crazy how even with all his "gender-bending shaman" ways, Jagger still managed to be trifling as hell and father 8 kids with 5 different baby mommas. He's like a White Nick Cannon.

by Anonymousreply 343October 30, 2022 9:17 PM

Bowie did the gender-bending shaman thing much better than Jagger...

by Anonymousreply 344October 30, 2022 9:30 PM

But Jagger did the gender-bending thing first, which earns him extra points.

by Anonymousreply 345October 30, 2022 11:29 PM

R345 My point, exactly (having lived through this): when Jagger did it, it was dangerous, outrageous, revolutionary). He was andro-suspicious even BEFORE PJ Proby and "Hold me".... and there'd be no Bowie without Ray Davies camping it up, or Marc Bolan sissifying rock...(not to diminish Bowie, whose unparalleled genius was much more than just gender-fucking...)

by Anonymousreply 346October 30, 2022 11:36 PM

[quote] a message from those who lived the life in real time:...having lived through this

It's so nice that Shady Acres lets you all get some computer time after bingo!

by Anonymousreply 347November 1, 2022 2:31 AM

R347 Yep, right after we have the late afternoon mainlining of speedballs, we do bingo, I sneak away to the computer room with the dial-up modems, then drop a couple hits of blotter; the lucid dreaming scours away all the bad stuff....

by Anonymousreply 348November 1, 2022 3:10 AM

The 1979 - 1982 lineup of Menudo, consisting of Rene, Xavier, Johnny, Miguel, and Ricky (Melendez, not Martin) is the only one that matters.

by Anonymousreply 349November 1, 2022 3:33 AM

Selena's English-language efforts would have flopped HARD, had her brains not been blown out that day in Corpus Christi.

(In my community, this is considered blasphemy)

by Anonymousreply 350November 1, 2022 3:36 AM

I liked Nickelback a lot. I liked "How You Remind Me," "Rock Star," and "Photograph."

by Anonymousreply 351November 1, 2022 3:42 AM

-Rap is not music. I don’t hate it, I just don’t consider it a form of music.

-Michael Jackson is the most overrated artist of all time. He was impressive as a child, then went downhill.

-Whitney, Mariah, and Celine all deserve their spots in the “holy trinity” and are underrated, if anything.

-The Beatles wrote some great songs, but they can’t sing for shit.

-Jennifer Hudson and Kelly Clarkson are the greatest vocalists of their generation.

-I will never understand the appeal of Billie Eilish and those who sing in “cursive”.

-Madonna and Britney had the potential to be great singers if they actually used their natural voices and not a put-on “sound”.

by Anonymousreply 352November 1, 2022 4:00 AM

“Gimme Shelter” is such a shit song. Other than Merry Clayton, Lisa Fischer nails it. But I hate that female vocalists have had to sing the song.

Beyonce is the most overrated artist of all time. 28 Grammys to this woman?

Stevie Wonder is brilliant. But I prefer hearing others sing his songs.

The Beatles are another band where their songs sound better sung by others. Aretha snatched “Let It Be.”

Phyllis Hyman has a catalogue full of great songs.

Post Malone’s Circles is one of the few current great songs.

SZA, Sunmer Walker and some of these other girls can’t sing for shit.

by Anonymousreply 353November 1, 2022 4:37 AM

Jay Z ruins every song he's in with his stupid rapping

by Anonymousreply 354November 5, 2022 9:10 PM

R352, Perhaps "greatest female vocalists of their generation."

For their co-eval male, it would be Adam Lambert.

by Anonymousreply 355November 28, 2022 9:08 PM

[quote]and there'd be no Bowie without Ray Davies camping it up, or Marc Bolan sissifying rock...(not to diminish Bowie, whose unparalleled genius was much more than just gender-fucking...)

Wasn't Bowie recording way before Marc Bolan hit the music scene? Or they both started in the music biz in the mid 1960s? Bolan did admit being bisexual, he said it wasn't a pose.

Who knows what Ray Davies was about, he's had several bad marriages, to women. His brother Dave has about 15-16 children.

by Anonymousreply 356November 29, 2022 6:30 AM

People are too hard on Lennon

by Anonymousreply 357November 29, 2022 7:04 AM

I'll steal a quote about Lil Richard but I think he was ahead of Jagger even in androgyny and rock and roll - he was born in 1932, Jagger in 1943 - but I don't know how influential Lil Richard was in England, but he did hear the Beatles at the Cavern and predicted their success so maybe he was touring in the UK / Europe - and apparently aware of the burgeoning scene, so maybe they were aware of him?

"The flamboyant icon that blazed a trail for rock and roll. Little Richard exploded the Fifties music scene with his thunderous piano and electrifying stage presence, setting the tone for the future of rock and roll. His unrestrained performances and visceral rhythms were unlike anything audiences had ever seen."

"...once their residency in Hamburg concluded, Little Richard joined the group in Liverpool to see them perform at the Cavern Club. He got a glimpse of what was to come; impressed by the group's energy, he foresaw success for the band in America"

by Anonymousreply 358November 29, 2022 7:36 AM

R338, you like Nickelback AND Creed?

Wow. Those are...choices.

by Anonymousreply 359November 29, 2022 8:36 AM

R358, I have never liked the Stones and the big reason is that I think those blues artists like Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters, Magic Sam, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. all make far better blues music. Why would I listen to the Stones when I can listen to the originals who were far more interesting, grittier and let's not forget REAL singers?!

by Anonymousreply 360November 29, 2022 12:57 PM

[quote] have never liked the Stones and the big reason is that I think those blues artists like Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters, Magic Sam, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. all make far better blues music. Why would I listen to the Stones when I can listen to the originals who were far more interesting, grittier and let's not forget REAL singers?!

The answer to that is quite simple, young music lovers, especially women and gay men, wanted to look at hot sexy young men up on that stage, not old craggy men. Even back then, image in music was extremely important.

Even a great American guitarist, Jimi Hendrix, needed a new image and a change of country, he moved to the UK, to find fame. Jimi's image transformation happened in London.

At least the young British blues rock bands of that era, such as The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, the original Small Faces, the Animals and the original Fleetwood Mac, brought American Blues to a young audience. Many of those young fans then discovered American bluesmen, they sought out the originals.

by Anonymousreply 361November 29, 2022 6:33 PM

R361, yes, that's all true. The UK seems better at appreciating music that sounds "different" than Americans. Still cannot stand the Stones though, they have always struck me as mediocre and I can't believe people actually try to pit the Stones and The Beatles against each other. Only one of those bands is the greatest band ever. The other isn't even close.

by Anonymousreply 362November 29, 2022 6:44 PM

Everything Prince is revered for, Sly Stone did first, and did better.

by Anonymousreply 363November 29, 2022 6:56 PM

Sly's music has aged better than Prince's. Prince's music was obviously synthesized to death. Don't get me wrong, his best albums are still classics but Sly Stone's music just sounds more natural.

by Anonymousreply 364November 29, 2022 7:08 PM

Sly was not glam and androgynous in a way that thrilled geeky white/Jewish music critics. He was unequivocally male and black. Some of his songs, among them "Underdog" and "Don't Call Me Nigger, Whitey," were confrontational about race issues.

Prince came along like a darker and more palatable David Bowie, all skin & bones & glam, and wooed the hipsters in the same way that Elvis and Pat Boone made the rhythms and rock of Chuck Berry and Little Richard palatable to the timid.

There's no denying Prince was a genius in his own way, but Sly was there first. And as you say, R364, Sly's music is far more timeless; it doesn't seem fixed in the 60s and 70s the way Prince's seems fixed in the 80s and 90s.

by Anonymousreply 365November 29, 2022 7:38 PM

Black people in real time were fans of Elvis until that racist fake quote about black people only shining his shoes and buying his records was attributed to him and that Chuck D line in Fight the Power. This article mentions how Elvis was one of the few white artists played on black radio stations in the 50’s and 60’s.

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by Anonymousreply 366November 29, 2022 8:11 PM

Black fans of Elvis

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by Anonymousreply 367November 29, 2022 8:12 PM

I really don’t like David Bowie. Awful voice, mediocre records, liked ‘em very young, but hey, let’s call him a genius. Yuck.

by Anonymousreply 368November 29, 2022 8:22 PM

The Stones did a lot for American blues musicians -- recording with them, bringing them on their shows, and generally promoting the style. They knew that a guy like "old craggy" Howlin' Wolf live on stage even in 1970 dripped with a raw sex they could only dream about, and I believe their respect for the music was sincere. Plus they had a sense of humor about it.

Agree with above, Bowie is a cardboard cutout compared to the magnificent full-package Mr. Howlin Wolf.

by Anonymousreply 369November 29, 2022 11:12 PM

I love(d) the Stones and hated the Beatles, who sometimes reminded me of Gilbert & Sullivan and sometimes kindergarten music or Burt Bacharach slop. Their early stuff was not as good as Chuck Berry. I'll just never get it.

I did like George Harrison's songs though.

by Anonymousreply 370November 29, 2022 11:26 PM

"I really don’t like David Bowie. Awful voice, mediocre records, liked ‘em very young"

I agree, I never liked Bowie. He was a good songwriter and a good look, but he had a dreadful singing voice and an offputtingly chilly persona. There was no humor or joy in his rock star persona, he managed to take androgyny and glam and bisexual chic, and instead of having fun with screwing with societal norms, he made it all so serious it was almost grim! I get that some people like that, but I never have.

Oddly, I liked him far more as an actor than a rock star, but perhaps that's because he was so incredibly photogenic.

by Anonymousreply 371November 30, 2022 1:26 AM

Mozart is vastly overrated.

by Anonymousreply 372November 30, 2022 1:57 AM

R372, just curious which composers you prefer over Mozart?

by Anonymousreply 373November 30, 2022 2:19 AM

[quote]Agree with above, Bowie is a cardboard cutout compared to the magnificent full-package Mr. Howlin Wolf.

Bowie did British Blues? News to me. Who the fuck would compare Bowie to Howlin' Wolf, you might as well compare Bowie to Robert Johnson and Enrico Caruso while you are at it! Compare Bowie to Bessie Smith too!

I know Bowie did a covers LP, Pin-Ups, where he did a few songs which were blues oriented, but he was never a British blues performer. Bowie's first few recordings pre-stardom, were an odd mix of show tune type songs and pop songs. On his earliest recordings, Bowie sounded like Anthony Newley.

Bowie was an all around artist, he wasn't only a singer and a songwriter. Bowie was extremely talented. Bowie even got good reviews for his acting, not many musicians succeed at acting.

by Anonymousreply 374November 30, 2022 5:41 AM

The Beatles were pop music geniuses, they got even better due to the guidance of Brian Epstein and George Martin.

Revolver and Rubber Soul are two of their best LPs. Considering the short amount of time they were a band, they produced a massive amount of memorable music.

The Beatles transcended being a 1960s equivalent of a boy band, well, a boy band who also could compose and play instruments.

As for Madonna, hype and a ridiculous image, ripped off from many past icons, made her a star, she doesn't possess an ounce of true talent. The woman cannot even sing. The critic who called her voice "Minnie Mouse on helium" was spot on.

So many here are downright uniformed and utterly clueless. Especially about pop and rock music.

by Anonymousreply 375November 30, 2022 5:46 AM

I feel that those who entirely dismiss rap are basically just racist. The person who sad rap will destroy the black community: really? Are you Tipper Gore? At least she was equally panic stricken by "whiter" musical genres like heavy metal. All of which were going to turn kids into devil worshipping baby killers.

And don't forget those evil video games!

I honestly don't care how stupid lyrics are. One of my favorite songs as a teen had laughably bad lyrics BUT at least they weren't about fucking some underage girl.

Or boy for that matter.

(In case you're wondering, it was the Psychedelic Furs "Yes I Do" which they've made four different versions of with varying lyrics, titles and success. The original was produced by Todd Rundgren and I loved the mix.)

I don't care how great a song is if the singer is bad. I would rather listen to anybody sing a Bob Dylan song other than Bob Dylan.

Even the autotuned Glee cast sang Madonna songs better than autotuned Madonna.

And if you can't find enjoyable music made now, you're not looking hard enough. You know how much musical product there is now? Obviously quantity doesn't equal quality but any half decent music service algorithm will help you find something new to enjoy.

I'm listening to stuff now that I never thought I would listen to. And I love "fun" music.

I was trained as a classical musician when I was young. I don't say that to portray myself as any kind of expert because my opinion is the same as anyone else's. It just explains why "fun" and Music" together are very important to me.

by Anonymousreply 376November 30, 2022 9:06 AM

[quote] Haydn still doesn't get enough credit.

I just purchased a double album of Haydn's piano trios. Great stuff! It's on spotify too but there's something about listening to classical music on albums. Also, if you haven't listened to music on blu-ray, you haven't lived!

by Anonymousreply 377November 30, 2022 12:57 PM

PJ Harvey's Stories from the City gets better as time goes on. I remember people thought it sounded too glossy at the time but I think time hasbeen really kind to it. "We Float" is a song I finding myself enjoying more and more. Stories and Rid of Me are her two classics.

by Anonymousreply 378November 30, 2022 1:00 PM

[quote] The critic who called her voice "Minnie Mouse on helium" was spot on

That was said decades ago after her first and second album. She hasn't sounded like Minnie Mouse on helium for decades.

by Anonymousreply 379November 30, 2022 1:03 PM

[quote] I feel that those who entirely dismiss rap are basically just racist.

I really despise arguments like this. Most people I know who dismiss most rap (including myself) dismiss it because most of it sounds ugly and cheap, like someone put 50 cents into a machine to churn out a hit. That's not referring to acts like Tribe Called Quest, Gang Starr, etc.

by Anonymousreply 380November 30, 2022 1:06 PM

[quote]I just purchased a double album of Haydn's piano trios. Great stuff! It's on spotify too but there's something about listening to classical music on albums. Also, if you haven't listened to music on blu-ray, you haven't lived!

r377, is Blu-Ray now an audio format for music? Don't you need to hook up to a tv in order for Blu-Ray to function?

by Anonymousreply 381November 30, 2022 1:08 PM

R381, yes, tv or computer, but trust me on this, music sounds so much better on blu ray audio. If you don't believe, get one of The Beatles special editions that have been released on blu-ray. Or the loads of classical music that has been released on it.

by Anonymousreply 382November 30, 2022 1:10 PM

Are they audio only, r382, the classical music?

by Anonymousreply 383November 30, 2022 1:13 PM

[quote] a boy band who also could compose and play instruments.

Wouldn't that automatically make them not a boy band then? At least by today's concept of the word. When people today hear the term "boy band"., they would automatically think about the manufactured 90s acts like the Backstreet Boys. I can see the Beatles being considered a boy band in the first part of their career but from Rubber Soul onwards I don't really see them as being a boy band at all. They were a rock band. But I guess that is according to today's terms where The Beatles are considered a rock act as well as a pop act.

by Anonymousreply 384November 30, 2022 1:13 PM

Billy Corgan is the worst lyricist ever

by Anonymousreply 385November 30, 2022 1:14 PM

Not really much of an opinion, but for some reason, Revolver is the only Beatles album I don't find myself really enjoying and I don't know why. My favorites are Please Please Me, Rubber Soul, The White Album, Magical Mystery Tour and Abbey Road.

by Anonymousreply 386November 30, 2022 1:15 PM

R384 Exactly. They weren't "put together" at all. The only thing remotely like that is that Pete Best was fired for ruining their Decca audition but John and Paul made that decision, not some manager. The Beatles gained a lot of notoriety in the club scene before they were signed, they were much ruder and proto-punk in comparison to their peers in late 50s Rock and Skiffle. They were known as the Savage Young Beatles for good reason, you can tell from the early covers of songs like Anna Go To Him, Long Tall Sally, and Bad Boy that they were way ahead of other groups in presence energy and attitude.

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by Anonymousreply 387November 30, 2022 1:17 PM

R384, to be honest, everything for classical that I have seen has been with video too. Sorry!

by Anonymousreply 388November 30, 2022 1:20 PM

R387, so true. Agree with you completely. To me, boy band implies manufactured (as is MOST pop music). I think The Beatles, more than any act in music history, are truly BOTH a rock and pop act. They definitely became more rock as time progressed though. Songs like Come Together and Helter Skelter are not pop songs.

by Anonymousreply 389November 30, 2022 1:24 PM

I was around when the Beatles became famous in early 1964, and I've bought every one of their albums in LP and CD formats. I don't remember there being the distinction between rock and pop groups in those early days. By today's standards, I suppose what came before the Beatles would be considered pop today, but it didn't matter to me at the time.

Here's the 77 WABC-AM All American Survey for the week starting Tuesday, October 1, 1963. I had nine of these singles. I don't think of this as rock music, but I don't remember ever using the term pop music, although it was definitely popular music.

I've often wondered what American popular music would have been like if the Beatles hadn't happened.

Oh, and a "boy band" is something assembled to sing and to be choreographed while so doing. Male Madonnaettes.

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by Anonymousreply 390November 30, 2022 1:27 PM

Over the years The Supremes were really four different groups, some more successful than others. the original lineup was the best. the Jean Terrell group was great in its own right (until Cindy left).

by Anonymousreply 391November 30, 2022 1:27 PM

R390, the distinction definitely wasn't something as strictly defined as it is now (based on all the reading I've done). American popular music would still be good without them but we'd have way less good/great bands and cover songs by American artists. And I think music would probably just be more uninspired in general.

by Anonymousreply 392November 30, 2022 1:38 PM

R390, I'm jealous that you were around then. I wish I was (sort of). I'm an older Millennial (35) but The Beatles are the only act I would ever pay $1000 to see in person.

by Anonymousreply 393November 30, 2022 1:41 PM

I didn't see the Beatles when they came to Shea Stadium, r393. The Byrds were my first concert, in 1965 or 1966, at Asbury Park Convention Hall, where I would also see the Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Led Zeppelin, among others.

I discovered I didn't really like going to concerts as much as I did listening to music at home. I suppose if I were to spend $1,000 on a single ticket today, it would be to see Linda Ronstadt, as it would mean she had her voice back.

by Anonymousreply 394November 30, 2022 2:25 PM

[quote]Billy Corgan is the worst lyricist ever

Simon LeBon was worse. “The union of the snake is on the climb”?

by Anonymousreply 395November 30, 2022 3:01 PM

R394, I've been to one live show in my entire life and that was Chance the Rapper (I don't even like Rap) and I was bored. I just think it's difficult to beat the experience of listening to music in the comfort of your own home where you are alone. It's similarish to the experience of watching a movie on a 4k tv at home versus a movie theatre.

by Anonymousreply 396November 30, 2022 3:24 PM

R394, I love the Doors. Jim Morrison has one of the best voices ever. What did you think of them live?

by Anonymousreply 397November 30, 2022 3:24 PM

I don't remember much about the concert, r397. I'd heard about him whipping out his cock in another concert—Florida?—and hoped we'd get a similar treat in New Jersey, but it didn't happen. I don't even remember if he took his shirt off. I liked each of their albums a little bit less than the one before it, and this was the Waiting for the Sun tour, their third album, so I wasn't that into it.

by Anonymousreply 398November 30, 2022 5:57 PM

Reading comprehension on DL is rather poor.

When they first hit the music scene, The Beatles would have definitely been considered a 1960s version of a boy band. Despite composing their own music and playing their instruments, their appeal was mostly to teens and young women. There was no choreography, but they did all dress the same in suits.

As the band expanded musically (sitars, horns etc), lyrically (Eleanor Rigby and other serious subjects beyond youthful romance), started doing drugs, became more 'hip' overall and changed their dress sense, yes, they would have been considered a rock band. While not as scruffy as The Rolling Stones or overtly sexual as Led Zeppelin, The Beatles did transform.

Compare the entire Revolver with I Want To Hold You Hand or PS I Love You, definitely a change lyrically and musically. Paul McCartney said in an interview that 'Got to Get You Into My Life, was not about pursuing a woman, but about him smoking weed!

Basically, The Beatles kept their signature sound (you could always tell a Beatle record), while expanding musically.

by Anonymousreply 399November 30, 2022 7:09 PM

As a musician and overall musicphile, I make a point to come to this thread just to get triggered.

by Anonymousreply 400December 1, 2022 3:25 AM

R399 They first hit the music scene in leather jackets at seedy strip clubs in Hamburg and bars around the UK. Could you write from now on with smaller words? As you said my reading comprehension is terrible and I'm not really on your level as a human being.

by Anonymousreply 401December 1, 2022 3:59 AM

Every song by the Doors sounds like it was written using a rhyming dictionary.

by Anonymousreply 402December 1, 2022 4:06 AM

R387, I love that song. It sounds so far ahead of its time.

by Anonymousreply 403December 1, 2022 4:14 AM

[quote]Every song by the Doors sounds like it was written using a rhyming dictionary.

The Doors, and especially Jim Morrison, were highly overrated.

Jimbo is up there with Patti Smith as one of the most pretentious overrated 'rock poets' on the planet. Leonard Cohen was actually a poet, not those two poseurs.

by Anonymousreply 404December 1, 2022 5:11 AM

[quote][R399] They first hit the music scene in leather jackets at seedy strip clubs in Hamburg and bars around the UK. Could you write from now on with smaller words? As you said my reading comprehension is terrible and I'm not really on your level as a human being.

Damn, are you fucking annoying!

Most Beatle fans know they were playing seedy clubs and were wearing the 'leather boy' look. Brian Epstein recognized their immense talent, but their original image was way too tough and strong for the type of audience Brian knew the band had to be marketed in order to become a success: little girls and female teens.

Gone were the dark clothing, the tight jeans, the greasy pouffy hair and leather jackets. The cowboy boots were gone too!

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by Anonymousreply 405December 1, 2022 5:21 AM

I don’t get your point. I’m too stupid. Sorry!

by Anonymousreply 406December 1, 2022 5:34 AM

[quote] he Doors, and especially Jim Morrison, were highly overrated.

As a Doors fan, I disagree but I completely get why people don't like them. Jim Morrison had a vey good voice, much better than, say, Mick Jagger.

by Anonymousreply 407December 1, 2022 1:06 PM

For r369:

Photo of Elvis (Austin Butler) and Scotty (Xavier Samuel) beneath a photo of Howlin' Wolf. Just one of the movie's acknowledgments.

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by Anonymousreply 408December 2, 2022 3:09 AM

Paul McCartney's solo work was better than John's.

by Anonymousreply 409December 10, 2022 3:04 PM

'Kooky' performers who come across as irritating novelty acts;

Cyndi Lauper

B-52s

by Anonymousreply 410December 10, 2022 3:08 PM

Chicago II was the group's swan song. Chicago III began its sad slide into MOR.

Same with Herb Alpert. Once he left his wife for Lani Hall, his sound became boring.

Adele is boring, like a dirge.

Ariana Grande has a great voice.

by Anonymousreply 411December 10, 2022 5:47 PM

1/4 of a WW for r411. Chicago made two good album, and that was it. Unfortunately for me, they both remind me of an acid trip I no longer want to be reminded of.

by Anonymousreply 412December 10, 2022 6:00 PM

R409: Me too, but I think these days that view is only unpopular amongst doddering boomers who used to write for the Rolling Stone.

by Anonymousreply 413December 11, 2022 1:44 AM

R373 Beethoven, Tchaikovsky

by Anonymousreply 414December 11, 2022 7:38 PM

r411: I like Lani Hall though. She'll always be remembered as the lead voice of Sergio Mendes ' Brasil '66.

by Anonymousreply 415December 12, 2022 4:14 AM

To be fair and factual R395 - the song writing credits for "Union of the Snake" list every member of Duran Duran.

That wasn't just Le Bon's doing.

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by Anonymousreply 416December 12, 2022 10:51 AM

Herb Alpert and Lani Hall have been married since 1971, 51 years, much longer than Herb was with his first wife.

by Anonymousreply 417December 12, 2022 11:13 AM

Lots of people assume Herb is Hispanic, he's not.

"Herb Alpert was born and raised in the Boyle Heights section of Eastside Los Angeles, California, the younger child (both sons) of Tillie (née Goldberg) and Louis Leib (or Louis Bentsion-Leib) Alpert. His parents were Jewish immigrants to the U.S. from Radomyshl (in present-day Ukraine) and Romania."

by Anonymousreply 418December 12, 2022 11:13 AM

R418 Yep, Boyle Heights was the primary Jewish neighborhood in LA (even before Fairfax)... Brooklyn Ave was the main street their... all the jewish folk from Brooklyn. Later, as Boyle Heights became Japanese, and then Latino... Brooklyn Ave was changed to Cesar Chavez Ave. You can still see some old synagogues...

Back to the topic: Unpopular opinion... Herb Alpert's perky, "latinamerican" quiz show theme music hid the fact he was a very good jazz trumpeter.

by Anonymousreply 419December 14, 2022 3:17 AM

^there

by Anonymousreply 420December 14, 2022 3:18 AM

The ukulele, harmonica and accordion are all musical abominations.

by Anonymousreply 421December 17, 2022 2:45 AM

My stardom and fame were all due to ME!

by Anonymousreply 422December 17, 2022 3:23 AM

Few voices mesh so perfectly with the music as John Fogerty with CCR music.

by Anonymousreply 423December 17, 2022 3:28 AM

[quote]The ukulele, harmonica and accordion are all musical abominations.

I beg to differ.

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by Anonymousreply 424December 17, 2022 4:59 AM

R399 today, it would be “I Want To Hold Your Dick” and P.S. I Fuck You”

by Anonymousreply 425December 17, 2022 3:04 PM

R424, it's fine but I prefer the original.

by Anonymousreply 426December 17, 2022 4:58 PM

" Prince & 3RDEYEGIRL perform 'She's Always In My Hair' at Arsenio Hall, around 2013 I guess.

I agree, his work with The New Power Generation was great and that afterwards he did a lot of tacky commercial stuff, that I for one didn't really care about. But his last years were absolutely brilliant. "

He was always brilliant live - a great performer and a real musical talent. But you think his last years in terms of releases was brilliant? There were gems here and there, but his recorded music during the last 3rd of his career was very underwhelming overall IMO.

by Anonymousreply 427December 17, 2022 5:14 PM

Rolling Stones-i prefer their early songs that don't get airplay anymore over the overplayed "Satisfaction" and "Brown Sugar".

I still love the Beach Boys. It's happy summer music to me. Brian Wilson is considered a musical genius by many. He hated the early surf music.

by Anonymousreply 428December 17, 2022 5:25 PM

Queen is meh

by Anonymousreply 429December 17, 2022 5:28 PM

The The deserves another look.

by Anonymousreply 430December 17, 2022 5:56 PM

"I have never liked the Stones and the big reason is that I think those blues artists like Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters, Magic Sam, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. all make far better blues music. Why would I listen to the Stones when I can listen to the originals who were far more interesting, grittier and let's not forget REAL singers?! "

Because they're (usually) not straight blue's music, but rock music with a blues foundation (like scores of other artists). It's all building blocks. I guess we could only listen to foundational music, but what fun is that? I'm by no means telling you to like the Stones, but the logic is odd to me.

by Anonymousreply 431December 17, 2022 6:03 PM

Additionally, r431, I wonder how many white teenagers who comprised the Stones' initial audience had heard of anyone on that list, other than Chuck Berry. I know I hadn't.

by Anonymousreply 432December 17, 2022 6:10 PM

Lennon was right when he referred to some of Paul's songs as granny music

by Anonymousreply 433December 17, 2022 7:42 PM

Denny Doherty was the most talented member of the Mamas and the Papas but is least remembered. His memory gets overshadowed by the eclipse of Mama Cass fetishization.

by Anonymousreply 434December 17, 2022 7:51 PM

R434, Denny Doherty, Mama Cass and John Phillips were all very talented. The outlier is Michelle Phillips.

by Anonymousreply 435December 17, 2022 8:36 PM

R431, to me, there were far better blues-influenced rock bands than the Stones. I"m a huge fan of GNR's first album and many of their other songs for instance. But I don't really hear what's so special about The Stones.

by Anonymousreply 436December 17, 2022 8:37 PM

I;m a huge Beatles fan and I can argue why they were so popular; they built upon their influences and created some expertly crafted pop/rock music. But I don't see what the Stones did to build upon their blues influences. They never transcended them the way the Beatles transcended their influences to create something unqiue.

by Anonymousreply 437December 17, 2022 8:40 PM

Donna Summer has a better discography than Beyonce, Whitney and Mariah.

by Anonymousreply 438December 17, 2022 9:01 PM

Rap "music" SUCKS. The lowest of the low.

by Anonymousreply 439December 17, 2022 9:16 PM

Auto tune and click track usage have reduced the quality of musicians and few can play instruments or sing with skill. I am also impressed by guitar and bass players that are left handed and flip the guitar upside down, they interpret music in fascinating ways. I really appreciate the work of certain drummers because of their ability to be in the pocket. I’m a jazz fusion weirdo so I’ll stop there

by Anonymousreply 440December 17, 2022 9:54 PM

R417, So? Doesn't alter the origin. I was madly in love with Herb Alpert, the TJB (had all their albums, played constantly), AND the trumpet (going back to Perez Prado). But I moved to The Baja Marimba Band and the gloriously-mustached Julius Wechter once Herb went mellow.

by Anonymousreply 441May 22, 2023 7:30 PM

Doris Day had a better voice and a more likeable personality than Beyoncé.

by Anonymousreply 442May 22, 2023 9:03 PM

[quote]Brian Wilson is considered to be a musical genius.

Brian is no musical genius. Yes, he had some really good songs but ultimately he wrote embarrassing treacly teen song but he never grew out of that.

He couldn't do complex signatures, beats or completing lyrics. He has a few good years but he is limited.

by Anonymousreply 443May 22, 2023 9:45 PM

Seymour disagreed, R89.

by Anonymousreply 444May 22, 2023 10:02 PM

Madonna has better musical taste than all her pop peers put together. Her lack of singing talent forced an ear for great songs that her vocal betters-- Celine, Whitney, Mariah--never possessed. Whitney was probably her harshest competition as far as material. You can put Britney in the same category as Madonna.

Or they were both chosen for their looks while their less sexy competition had to be able to sing. Either way, their songs are better.

by Anonymousreply 445May 23, 2023 12:49 AM

Madonna did have excellent taste in material. I don't think Britney did, all her old hits sound like generic Max Martin shit, no different from the Backstreet Boys.

by Anonymousreply 446May 23, 2023 3:25 AM

The sitar sounds terrible. I hate it. And it sounds worse when it's used in western music.

by Anonymousreply 447May 26, 2023 5:37 PM

Prince's most brilliant work was with the Revolution, most especially Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman, and that carried over to Sign O' The Times.

He had other great music after that, but the heights of what was achieved with Purple Rain/Around The World In A Day/Parade were never reached again.

by Anonymousreply 448May 26, 2023 5:40 PM

[quote] the song writing credits for "Union of the Snake" list every member of Duran Duran.

Many bands do that to ensure songwriting credits - and thus money - are distributed evenly. It means NIL as to who actually wrote the song.

by Anonymousreply 449May 26, 2023 5:42 PM

[quote] The sitar sounds terrible. I hate it. And it sounds worse when it's used in western music.

What about "Norwegian Wood"? That's one of my favorite Beatles songs.

by Anonymousreply 450May 26, 2023 6:06 PM

John Mayer is the worst singer to ever step up to a microphone. Lauryn Hill is overrated Kendrick Lamar- all his songs sound the same

by Anonymousreply 451May 26, 2023 6:13 PM

R450, I think you just listed the sole exception (that's a classic song). I hate all the other Beatles songs that use the sitar though. I was specifically thinking of The Beatles when I made that post.

by Anonymousreply 452May 26, 2023 6:18 PM

Lauryn Hill is a perfectly proficient singer, but few if any realize that The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill was wholly written and created by others - a fact that resulted in a lawsuit from those musicians - and she hasn't been able to do anything since, because she doesn't have those people to help her make music.

Think about it....she's had literally no other studio album since that one.

by Anonymousreply 453May 26, 2023 6:53 PM

R453, her live "performances" since then just add fuel to the fire. Terrible performer. She had so much promise which makes it just sad to me.

by Anonymousreply 454May 26, 2023 7:07 PM

R447, Back in the Beatmes Era, Ravi Shankar performed at my college. I left early!

by Anonymousreply 455May 29, 2023 5:02 PM

R443 = Mike Love

by Anonymousreply 456May 29, 2023 5:41 PM

R7 Yes!

Beatles are over rated!!!

Smashing Pumpkins are annoying and over rated.

by Anonymousreply 457May 29, 2023 6:32 PM

Mariah Carey is/was an actual very talented, and valid artist. At least back in the day. She was ballsy and real. Unlike stuff today.

by Anonymousreply 458May 29, 2023 6:34 PM

Mariah Carey is an excellent singer who chooses mediocre music. Beyonce is a good singer who picks awful material that already is forgotten.

Imagine if they had made great music.

by Anonymousreply 459May 29, 2023 6:38 PM

Stan culture has ruined the music industry

by Anonymousreply 460May 29, 2023 6:44 PM

Tina Turner retired and was forgotten until her death.

by Anonymousreply 461May 29, 2023 6:47 PM

R459, I think quite a few people know the refrain from "All the Single Ladies."

And of course in r455 I meant "Beatles."

by Anonymousreply 462May 29, 2023 6:50 PM

Kylie Minogue is the most overhyped mediocre singer Australia has produced.

by Anonymousreply 463May 29, 2023 6:52 PM

[quote]quite a few people know the refrain from "All the Single Ladies."

I've always thought of it as a Justin Timberlake song (0:39).

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by Anonymousreply 464May 29, 2023 6:57 PM
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