Diana Ross

OP = Mary Wilson

Goddess.

She was before my time but when I started getting Motown heavy in my early 20s there is something about her voice and phrasing that is magnificent. I was nostalgic for a time I never experienced and it just seem refreshing when r&b divas didn't belt out everything. Ain't no Mountain is one of my favorite songs, both the original and Diana's interpretation.

Diane reigns supreme.

She can be off-putting, and I think all of that "how to be a stah" training at Motown played some part.

This appearance shows a different side, more slinky and flirty than usual. Miss Ross was around 50 when this was taped.

ANOTHER lame generic thread OP. How lazy can you get.

Honestly, I never liked her music. Her voice was so thin and gaspy.

This lady will tell you everything you need to know, OP.

The Supremes are great. On her own, Ross is fine for background music.

Nonsense.

Team Mary Wilson here. The Diane she described in her book matched up with the Diana we saw in the media.

I love Diana. Yes, she can be bitchy and yes she can be a diva, but she's human. She's a good mother and she sang 18 number-one songs. Her music has stood the test of time. The Supreme hits and songs like Upside Down, I'm Coming Out Love Hangover, and Ain't No Mountain High Enough are still great and still played on radio. Do You Know Where You're Going To is beloved by Mariah and J-Lo.

Weak and reedy voice. She got away with it because she was pretty.

Diana Ross is a star.

She had star quality, star power, the "it" factor.

Her voice isn't the strongest, doesn't have the biggest range, etc. but it's very sweet and unique sounding. You know it's she as soon as you hear it. And she really knows how to use it to make the most of it.

She's touring right now and her stage show is (and always has been) great. She gives her all to every number, she's over the top with her costume changes..... she really enjoys performing.

During the Supremes era, she did like 3X the work of the others (singing leads, bg's, etc.) and got equal share of the money.

She deserves her success.

She's also a dedicated mother and her kids seemed to have all turned out great.

I don't think anyone ever was naive enough to ask me if I am or was a fan of Diane.

As Little Miss Mouse-Fart Voice with an ego the size of her ratty hair.

I either totally loved her songs or totally hated them.

One of the first biographies I read as a young'n was.about her. "Call Me Miss Ross", I believe it was called. I remember being surprised that she was such a bitch. I loved and still love Mowtown, and I still like her music, but whenever I hear her name or her music I think of that book. Ive read other music biographies since then, about performers from the same genre of music, and there's no getting around it, she's a cunt.

I like her but my estimation if her was lessened a bit when she did that stupid ass Supremes reunion. She should have done it right or not bothered.

She’s all right, but has never been my favorite artist in the respective genre wheelhouses she’s been in over the years. Of 60s girl groups, I much prefer the “bad girl” Ronnettes and Shangri-Las. Of 70s disco divas, Donna Summer cannot be beaten.

Why isn’t she “oh, deared” here from sunrise to sunset?

[italic]Chudney??

I want all of her… all of her body and soul!

Her success as a mom tells a lot about who she is, especially compared to the kids of many other celebrities. They are well adjusted/some publicly successful. And they love their mom.

With 18 #1 songs, her voice has shown accomplishment. The public purchased her sound/ talent. Even as a solo artist with six #1s, she had more chart toppers than Cher, Barbra, Bette, Liza, Dionne Aretha.

OP = Misogyny Troll = Let's Tear Down a Woman Troll

R15 = Miss Warwick, unbilled. I'd recognize that acidic posting style anywhere!

Love her. She came through a period where racism, misogyny were the norm and became a star in her own right. Turned herself into one of the world’s most recognised and beautiful black women. May not be the strongest voice ever but unique sounding. For me, like Dusty Springfield there’s just something about her voice that sets her apart. For once, the word Diva is appropriate.

Just to add. This is miss Ross at her peak. Secure in her looks, talent. Unique.

The woman at r8 has many legitimate points but her mangling of the English language made my ears bleed.

Hint: Never use words you can neither spell nor pronounce.

Shhh, R24.

I am here incognito lately because my PR and medical people said rubbing shoulders with some of the people here will be bad press AND bring out my fucking eczema, and you know how I like to show my shoulders when I'm performing.

Never really thought that she was a great singer and based on what I’ve heard and read about her, she sounds insufferable. I love several of her songs, especially The Bee Gees produced “Chain Reaction”. But she comes across as a backstabbing nasty cunt. I feel the same way about JLo and Beyoncé. Streisand too, although her talent makes her a bit more palatable. Diana Ross is the proto-cunt.

Nothing special without the supremes. She had money, looks, and connections, and then remained a loner save for a a few black artists. She is uninspirstional

THE worst concert I've ever attended was her massive shitshow at Giants Stadium in the 80's. It was like watching someone masturbate for 3 hours.

You've come to the wrong place, OP.

In the middle 80s she was pissed off to the max when she saw the marquee outside of Cesar’s Palace which read..

Tonight

DIANA ROSS

Next week SHEENA EASTON

^^^^ Honey, that would have pissed off MARILYN MCCOO and she's the nicest lady in showbusiness.

What would Dionne have done?

She would have badmouthed Caesars and spread lies about Sheena.

She grew up in the Brewster projects. She understands the cruelty of life better than all of you.

Diana I mean. Dionne is just a dimwit

She had no qualms about suing charities auctions and their donors that included her or the Supreme's memorabilia, art, caricatures, etc. . . believing if they were going to sell even a dress she once worn, they needed to pay an exorbitant fee to even mention she once wore it. There were no warnings such as when they were advertising the lots but until after because then most of these lawsuits would be awarded in her favor.

for this and among other reasons, she held an uncomfortable place among gays. . .

r36 and turned around and acted like bloody royalty, adopting a faux accent long before Madge would and taking on as many contradictory personas from the tragic mulatto to the spicy white princess, and one has to wonder if it was largely her influence that led the Jacksons into moving from black to white. . . which also set her at odds within the black community for over the top diva cuntiness. . .

the most comparablet to modern day is beyonce.. but beyonce, even with the killer beyhive, is just a plastic doll molded into shape by her dad... even now most people question if there's anything there behind her eyes. Miss Ross was a cannibalistic viper.

R38, you tried it. Queen Bey has never separated herself from the black community. For one thing she is actually light skin so all the blonde weaves and extensions that all the divas from all background rocks manifest different with her. Bey has always kept it black in her music, men she dated, overall brand identity. Even when the label begged her to do more pop sounding shit because she would sell more. But she didn't care because she could still sell out all over the world off the strength of black radio.

Queen Bey has always kept it hip-hop and black.

Queen Bey hip-hop?

r39 I didn't say Bey did. my apologies for you reading that way. I meant as far as the unearned diva attitude - for Bey has the defense, that thenit's not so much her, she really comes off pretty simple minded with all the people around in her in control. .

to get young people to understand the level of celebrity, Ms Ross had, there's no one else today that would be comparable. I wasn't trying to draw parallels on the light skin part for Bey, just the diva cuntiness. Although everything about Bey was manufactured, but again, by design of people around her.,.. while We could say similarities with the Supremes, Miss Ross took control of the narrative on her own. The contrast between her stage persona and her public persona, in the 70s and 80s I always found it odd how more people weren't so much more critical, especially now.

70s to 80s, she does run parallel with Babs especially on trading up celebrity whoring. . which elders would get. . . polus the same trajectory with going from being very socially rough to a hardline wasp poseur. tho, no one can touch Ross on the pseudo royalty.. not even all the diva fits of Elton.

I was never a fan (43 now) until last year (or 2 years ago) I went down the Youtube Rabbit Hole and watched some live shows from the late 70's- early 80's-

No joke, I was floored. She could sing live, had really beautiful phrasing (like someone mentioned above) and is probably the most charismatic "star" I have ever seen.

So I will say that 1970's-80's Diana Ross was a major, major star. And a talented one.

(That Supremes shit is not for me)

She was marketable and as a black person back then you had to completely sell out. Tina is better.

R40, yes hiphop. It was her that introduced the rap style singing to contemporary r&b, and is now routine.

That doesn't make her hip-hop. That makes her an pop/r&b artist featuring rap. Something almost all pop stars do today. Is Katy Perry hip-hop now?

R45 that vid I posted is over 20 years ago??? What I'm saying is that she has always embraced hip-hop in her style and music. It may be materialistic, commercial hiphop but she always had that foundation.

Missy will tell you, Ye(pre-crazy) will tell you, Wyclef...

Almost all pop stars embrace hip-hop because the majority of young people like rap most of whom are white

But it's more than just having some trap rapper featured on your song. Bey was actually rhythmically raping with cadence. She introduced that to pop music. Now all the pop/r&b stars male or female are doing it. The label wanted her to release more mariah carey type ballads on her B'day album but she refused and secretly recorded an album in 2 weeks.

there is some live  early 60s footage on a supremes dvd compilation. ...  a smaller Vegas casino or supper club, with Diana giving an intro before launching into the song.   The men onstage in the all white band behind her were so lecherous, sexist responding to her.... , completely inappropriate by today's standards..... I've always admired her after that... what it must have taken to endure that crap coming up.... it makes my blood run cold thinking about it.

She loves white men, so she probably enjoyed it r49. She hooked up with Ryan O’Neal and Gene Simmons…she obviously loves sexist, misogynistic white men.

She loves white men so much, she made Rhonda Ross.

[Quote] The men onstage in the all white band behind her were so lecherous, sexist responding to her.... , completely inappropriate by today's standards..... I've always admired her after that... what it must have taken to endure that crap coming up.... it makes my blood run cold thinking about it.

Do you have a link? Supremes patter was scripted.

Her only child fathered by a black man r51. The rest of them have white men for daddies.

Well, Rhonda had a white man for a daddy, if we're talking parenting...

She's a talent who knew her worth, but not her strengths. Taking over her own career in the 80s was her worst mistake which she never recovered from. She should have stayed with Gordy, or found a new manager.

That's one way too look at it. Another way to look at it is that Ross made more money from the RCA deal than she ever made at Motown. Ross saved money by producing some album tracks herself. Like Aretha, when left to her own devices, Ross was not a talented music producer. She was a better collaborator.

Especially when she was younger she looked like a

TRANNY.

Absolutely unique voice, she's a lyric soprano and sounds like a flute. Superb singer with excellent interpretive qualities. She's one of my absolutely favorites. She's also no religious hypocrite like some of her contemporaries were/are, like Aretha or Pattie or Whitney. She had the vision and audacity to become what she wanted to be. Plus she made sure her kids were taken care of properly. None of them seem to be spoiled brats or drug addicts or idiots.

I will always love Diana Ross!

Did she perform for AIDS benefits?

Amazing, what a huge celebrity she was in the '60s & '70s and is now almost totally forgotten.

I shouldn't say amazing, as that seems to be the case for almost every singer--except for their aging fans.

Close to You

and yes she's singing live

I bet she was quite the cock gobbler back in the day.

R33, she would also get pissed off if anything appeared other than DIANA ROSS on the marquee. Not MISS DIANA ROSS, not LIVE! DIANA ROSS. In fact, she was so pissed off at the Sheena Easton business that Miss Thing refused to perform if it was not changed, so she made the audience wait while she huffed outside in her fur coat to see for herself that Caesar's had fixed the lettering.

Or a cat that someone had scared, r57.

Enjoy many of her musical hits, and her movies were fun. But yes, she looks like she'd be a fucking nightmare diva bitch in real life.

[quote] I bet she was quite the cock gobbler back in the day.

Only if that cock was connected to a man who could advance her career. Otherwise, fuck off.

[quote]I bet she was quite the cock gobbler back in the day.

Too much teeth and bitch used an egg timer.

Long long ago, in another century, I was working stage crew for an event in Detroit, and Diana was the headliner star attraction. In the 80's. I was 18 at the time. I remember that everyone associated with her was walking on eggshells back stage, and I Remember that they were scared that they'd lose their jobs on a whim. She was mean, and abusive to the help. At one pooint, she threw a tea cup across the dressing room and it hit the wall....It wasn't hot enough. Then she was rushed out. and we watched on a monitor back stage, as she walked out to centerstage with her arms out and this huge smile plastered on her face and was all about love. "Reach out and touch..." Yeah. I have always disliked her since then. I have learned never to get too close to my idols.

[quote]At one pooint, she threw a tea cup across the dressing room and it hit the wall....It wasn't hot enough.

That routine only works if you're in Delta, first class.

I love the story that she refused soup as too cold and Smokey Robinson, who was visiting her backstage, happily consumed the broth. There may have been a "woman, please" thrown in there.

Diana Ross was good but not exceptional. Yes, she could sing and she was pretty but her voice was just that. Acceptable and her looks were nice.

She always had a diva attitude about her that none of the other major black females had,, like Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick or Roberta Flack.

So she got criticized a lot. I hate when people say she hasn't talent, she did. But her whole style was off-putting.

[quote]She always had a diva attitude about her that none of the other major black females had,, like Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick or Roberta Flack.

Oh, please. Dionne was a notorious cunt.

[Quote] Diana Ross was good but not exceptional. Yes, she could sing and she was pretty but her voice was just that. Acceptable and her looks were nice.

Nonsense. A singer is more than their instrument. And Ross had a good one. She is also a strong interpreter.

[Quote] She always had a diva attitude about her that none of the other major black females had,, like Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick or Roberta Flack.

Gladys Knight is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The Temptations were offended by Diana's diva antics (she insisted on having the key changed of their medley to suit her voice over theirs), so co-lead David Ruffin decided to outsing her 3:35 during their duet. She still managed to hold her own, but David "won." Of course, she was mad as hell afterwards, and complained about it to Berry Gordy.

Well, "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" suited Eddie Kendrick's voice much more than it suited Diana's.

People always put forth this idea that Diana was intimidated by XYZ yet she gave that mic to Patti Labelle live on stage...

Excuse me, OP. It’s Miss Ross to you.

[quote] Gladys Knight is a wolf in sheep's clothing. —Ree

And you were an elephant in a circus tent.

Theres no disputing her impact on pop culture...especially with the Supremes, but she was the original prototype for Beyonce...leaves successful girl group to pursue a solo career and because of blind devotion from her fans, deems herself the second coming...regardless of her mediocre talent. If you strip away the high fashion and glitz, youre not really left with much. And like Diana.

^^^and I like Diana^^^

R74, I knew Gladys many years ago. When she was at the height of her popularity. And she was and is an angel. She is warm friendly and very down to earth. She's religious and definitely likes to be a peacemaker. Doesn't like people to be mean or hateful. And she loved Aretha.

I think Gladys Knight is very underrated.

Diana's voice is very touchy these days and still live audiences are enchanted. That's not mediocrity. That's a winner, baby.

R63 that is so off the rails. What a cunt. I’d love to know what Sheena Easton thought about her over the top antics.

R68 Diana sounds like a monster

I remember Diana singing on one of those "Divas Live" things decades ago. She seemed drunk and her voice was shot.

Although, in fairness, she sounded better than Whitney Houston, who showed up on another "Divas Live" show cracked out of her mind. And speaking of crack: her voice when she tried to sustain any notes. It was so bad that it was removed from all rebroadcasts.

She has a distinctive reedy voice- certainly not great but applied to the right pop music, effective. She had enormous ambition and played the glamour role to the hilt. So she’s a star- not the sort of talent and artistry of Aretha and Streisand. Diana and Cher kind of occupy the same niche: glamour brand, distinctive if not limited talent, and drive. Both still working in their 70s!

The majority of Ross' catalogue has aged much better than Streisand's. They both can favor cloying... goop. But Streisand has more of that in her catalogue.

Aretha's latterday recordings are more disappointing than Diana's too.

Cher is one of the greatest actresses of all time. Please don't diminish her talents.

[quote]The majority of Ross' catalogue has aged much better than Streisand's.

That's because Ross was a better pop singer.

I wonder if, over time, all that pop will sound terribly dated.

Streisand's forays into the Great American Songbook early in her career may stand a better chance of lasting, although I doubt it.

I think Ross's only shot at being remembered is her work with The Supremes.

[Quote] I wonder if, over time, all that pop will sound terribly dated.

That's an odd comment to make when Streisand dove into pop once the 1960s gave way to the 1970s...

[Quote] Streisand's forays into the Great American Songbook early in her career may stand a better chance of lasting, although I doubt it.

Most of Streisand's material in that vein were obscure songs. It's telling that her versions of the better known songs of that ilk have not risen to be considered the definitive version(s).

[Quote] I think Ross's only shot at being remembered is her work with The Supremes.

Not true at all. The Chic stuff is never out of fashion, save for the initial slump Rodgers & Co. experienced in the early 1980s.

And then there's "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (which is probably better known in Ross' version), "Touch Me In The Morning," "Theme from Mahogany," "Endless Love," etc.

One of my friend's dad owned a popular construction company in Greenwich, CT in the 80s and 90s. He did a lot of home-remodeling work for many celebrities out there, and never had a problem with anyone - until Diana Ross hired him . According to him, at first she was very nice - going room by room with a list of changes she wanted to each room. (He said she had bought a beautiful old mansion in Greenwich where her kids lived with her). The biggest jobs were to be her bathrooms and kitchen where she wanted complete upgrades, while keeping the historic architecture in tact. The rest was more cosmetic work in the other rooms. He offered her a proposal (at around $750K) and she accepted and approved all the changes, materials, etc - and work began in late winter / early spring with about 6 months to finish. He said she put a small deposit down (about $10K).

For most of the spring/summer she went on tour and left him and his crew alone. She returned towards the end of the summer, while he had about a month or so to go to finish the project. When she walked through the house with him, she threw a fit - inisted nothing was right, she didn't like what he did, etc. and wanted almost everyhting done over. Everything from the paint on the walls (which she picked out and gave to him) to the kitchen counters, lighting, appliances - everything. Keep in mind, everything was her choosing and her approval before she left. He - a professional - ended up staying though the end of the year with her watching over him, and the price went up to nearly $2M (as he said, it stated in his contract if she wanted any changes done after the job was done to her specifications, she was responsible). She was finally sastisfied with the project, but would not pay him for the extra work - only paid him for the $750K. This poor guy was mortified.

He ended up suing her, and after a few years of court delays (due to her team of lawyers) they finally settled out of court, yet he was still stiffed about $500K in the end - so he didn't earn any profit. Years later (mid-2000s) she called him - had the audacity to ask him if he would do more work on her house since the kids were grown and she was thinking to sell. She acted like everything was peachy between the two of them. (No he didn't go back).

[quote]Cher is one of the greatest actresses of all time.

Oh, please. Cher was a surprisingly good actress (when she could still move her face) but she was NOT one of the greatest actresses of all time.

Was this reconstruction around the time of Diana's second divorce? She hit the bottle hard.

Streisand has by far the most complete and explored catalogue of music of literally any singer. If you don’t know that, you simply don’t know her recorded catalogue. Every major songwriter of the 20th Century and much of it definitive when she recorded.

Care to list the "major songwriter" songs of which Streisand's are the definitive version?

[Quote] most complete and explored catalogue of music of literally any singer.

Oh, please. "Classical Barbra" and "Disco Barbra" were fully explored, huh?

If these stories are true Diana Ross sounds God awful. She ought be ashamed.

I'm glad Queen Bey isn't this way. She could teach these old biddies a thing or 2 about common human respect and class.

Ohreally?

She received proper clearing and copyright use for both songs. Kelis is complaining about a song she doesn't own nor wrote nor produced. Pharrell could have given that song to Ashanti. Kelis was lucky.

Or Kelis was screwed out of publishing that was rightfully hers.... (And Beyonce has publishing that is NOT rightfully hers...)

R96 that’s fascinating. I like a portion of Ross’s music but hate her personality being a bitch. I’d probably like her more if she wasn’t a huge cunt.

[R106] I remember him telling us stories about work he did for Kathie Lee, Meryl Streep, Martha Stewart and The Philbins. The one other story he told us that stood out in my mind was for Martha Stewart which ended up on a sour note:

MS was a regular repeat customer of his and he enjoyed working for her. She asked him to build a customized cabinet with a bookcase on top. She was going to put it in one of the guest bedrooms. She approved everything he designed as well as the materials and colors he was to use - so he built it for her, painted it and put the lighting in it and hardware on it. Everything was hand-carved by him, including the intricate molding he attached on to it at the end. He said it was beautiful in the end - one of his finest pieces (though MS forbade him to take any photos of his work inside her home for privacy reasons). He was happy because he charged a fortune for this, and she happily paid him. MS loved the piece. It tiik him a few months to finish.

One day a few months later he flipped on his television and her 'Christmas' show was on (this was in the early 2000s) and she was giving a tour of her home for the holidays. There on the show was his handcrafted cabinetry in MS guest room. She was telling the audience how SHE designed the cabinet, how SHE built the cabinet by herself, she chose the colors, did all the trim - all by herself. Never gave him credit. After that experience, he never took another job from her again - and told her why. She believed she didn't do anything wrong. (Her defense: she paid him, she owned it, she could say whatever she wanted about it).

There's something so wonderfully American about her, in the best sense of the word: the drive, the work ethic, the talent, the perfectionism, the well-earned success. She just makes me feel proud.

She pulled herself up by her bootstraps?

She's a great "Yes You Can!" role model.

Fuck you r110

[quote]She pulled herself up by her bootstraps?

More like her strap-on, child.

I can't deny her charisma as a performer back in the day, or what she represented, but yeah...she's a weird one. Very high and mighty and grand and that's annoying AF.

She's entitled to think her shit don't stink - she was an icon and trailblazer, no denying it - but she's a weird. I LOVED when Walters asked her "...is that really all your hair?" during an interview. I mean, LOL.

Babs said some insulting shit over the years, but that was deserved.

I mostly hate that Ross screwed over the other gals in the group and was bitchy towards them for decades. It'd be nice to think she'd value them equally.

[Quote] I LOVED when Walters asked her "...is that really all your hair?" during an interview. I mean, LOL.

Tell you you're white without saying you're white.

*Tell us

[Quote] I mostly hate that Ross screwed over the other gals in the group

She didn't.

[Quote] It'd be nice to think she'd value them equally.

How could you value someone equally when you do much more work than them but they get paid the same amount as you do?

Ross helped Wilson out financially as her marriage ended. Ross tried to help out Florence but Florence's husband insisted on receiving the money himself. Ross wisely did not play ball with him. Ross also helped Cindy financially until she got sick of the handout mentality.

Right here! Click on the YT icon so you can ff to 01:34:00. That's some straight Miss Ross bitch fit shit right there. She ain't actin! No, baby, she ain't actin!

Hmmm, have you ever heard the Friars Club tribute to Streisand where Styne, Rogers, Arlen, Berlin and others essentially regard her as their favorite to sing their music. Ever heard what Bernstein said about Streisand as a vocalist? And practically ever other living songwriter of her time? Nah, I don’t think you do. Ever looked at the programs of her concerts? Ever asked another singer about the variety, the difficulty, and the manner in which it’s delivered? Ever read reviews of her concerts and shows going back to an 18 year old at the Bon Soir, or Coconut Grove a few years later? Before she was 21 she had the crème of the entertainment and songwriting world at her feet. Comparing her to Ross is like comparing Warhol to an ad illustrator. Silly DL posters. Stupid.

Oh shit! I forgot about the phone call right before. Go to the 01:33:00 mark, instead.

[quote]It'd be nice to think she'd value them equally

Even Motown--and, more important, the public--didn't value them equally. They weren't billed or paid the same. And they were swapped out for session background singers ("Someday We'll Be Together Again") and NOBODY noticed.

This forum really lets Diana have it…I googled “Diana Ross cunt” and I got this:

[Quote] They weren't billed or paid the same.

They were paid the same.

[quote]Hmmm, have you ever heard the Friars Club tribute to Streisand where Styne, Rogers, Arlen, Berlin and others essentially regard her as their favorite to sing their music.

Styne also praised Ross' recording of the FUNNY GIRL soundtrack, saying it was the best he had ever heard (or something along those lines). NO WAY could that have sat well with Streisand. The bagels and lox must've decorated her kitchen walls that morning when she heard that.

Diane seems so energized and happy at the close of her final show at the Frontier Hotel in Las Vegas on January 14, 1970, when she met, introduced and named onstage her upcoming new solo act’s background singers Cindy Birdstone, Mary Wells and Tammi Terrell.

Babs must have seethed with surprisingly controlled anger at this.

Also her eyes are bugging out.

She was all teeth and eyes, like her skin was being pulled back, clean off her face.

[R126] Babs grabbed Marty Ehrlichman by his balls and demanded to know, "Who is that colored woman stealing my act ?"

Ehrlichman, suffering in pain, sputtered out "D-d-diana Ross!"

Streisand asked "Diana What ? Never heard of her. "

As Barbra walked away, Marty muttered under his breath "you wouldn't have heard of her Babs. She's part of the 15+ Billboard number 1 club. You never made it that far!"

She can't sing like I can!

NOBODY CAN SEE HER ON A RECORD!!!

[quote]They were paid the same.

At the start. But not after Diane started sucking Berry's dick and had the name of the group changed, child.

I thought Diana’s Funny Girl takes were embarrassing at the time. I’ve always thought she wanted the career and success of Streisand. She did pretty well anyhow. For me there is no real comparison, one is a great talent and artist who became a huge star and the other is a narrowly focused pop singer who became a glamor brand as an entertainer- like Cher.

It has been written in several articles about it that Diana continued to be paid equally with the other 2 Supremes after she got star billing in the group, and through her 1970 solo transition.

Glamour brand.... Streisand certainly tried for that.

Her voice stinks

Ross and Streisand went on different paths after the 70s.

Ross, like Streisand, was a talented actress in her own right (she even got praise for her role in 'The Wiz'; it was the director who got most of the blame for the bombastic production which made the film a flop). She said in an Oprah interview years later that after filming three movies back-to-back, she chose to leave acting. She found no fun in leaving her daughters for months on end to go on 'location' to shoot a movie, and to sit on a set all day long until they need you for your scenes (she found that a waste of time). She didn't want any regrets later in life that she missed her children growing up, important dates in their lives (graduations, proms, etc,) because she was shooting a movie 'on location' and couldn't be there with them. She preferred doing concert tours - traveling with her kids from city to city while they were on summer vacation and winter vacation. She liked recording music because she was near her children - recording in studios not too far from her home. She admired her friend Jackie Kennedy, and how Jackie put her children first before any other personal success in life, and she chose the same. Today she is still an integral part of her five kids lives, and now her grandchildren.

As much as I admire Streisand, I have never heard her speak of her relationship with Jason in the same way. I have never heard her say she put aside filming not to miss his 'formative years' and 'growing up years' (was he with her while filming YENTL for two years in Europe ?) - we may have to wait until the memoir comes out and see if she addresses this. (Same with Cher and her kids).

The only other female entertainers I know of who said publicly that they put their career on the back burner while their kids were growing up was Donna Summer (her hiatus in the 90s and OOs) and Dionne Warwick (her hiatus in the 70s).

And yet Chutney became a tagalong of Paris Hilton's.

Donna Summer's dwindling commercial success semi-retired her... And when did Dionne Warwick take a break in the 1970s? There was scarely a year when she didn't have an album out.

She DID NOT get praise for her role in The Wiz...she was one of the reasons for the bad reviews and failure.

Did Barbra get praise for NUTS?

Cher is a great actress and she has a strong distinctive voice. I love her.

She hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

[quote]Ross, like Streisand, was a talented actress in her own right (she even got praise for her role in 'The Wiz'

Fans are adorable.

Ross in "The Wiz" was laughed out of theaters.

Ross stopped making movies because she ruined THE WIZ. She was miscast, she looked terrible and her voice was too small for those big songs, especially HOME. No one wanted to put her bony ass in movies after that fiasco. And it was all her own doing, manipulating her way into the lead role as Dorothy. Her ego is the size of one of those oversized Royal Caribbean cruise ships. People told her that she was wrong for the role. But she didn’t listen. And she takes no responsibility whatsoever for the film’s failure. And her solo recording career, as has been mentioned, has been spotty at best. Personally I liked that Bee Gees album. It only did well in Europe and Asia though. And she trashed the Bee Gees when it tanked in the US.

They didn't treat her voice well on that album.

It's a pity about Ross's acting career.

I thought she was quite good in Lady Sings the Blues, even if her voice was all wrong for Billie Holliday.

She even got an Oscar nomination for her first role.

But what did she follow it up with? A silly vanity picture Mahogony. And then a totally miscast role as a frumpy teenager.

It's easy to blame Barry Gordy, but I think Ross's ego had gotten so big, the fault is probably mostly hers.

"I wanted to be with my kids" is just an after-the-fact excuse for why she no longer got roles.

[quote]Oh, please. Dionne was a notorious cunt.

You just say that because none of her hotline predictions came true for you

[quote]She hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Yeah? Well you probably deserved it.

r135

No it doesn't. OK it's not the best voice out there but she clearly can hold a tune.

I recall Ross was into some kind of 70s "self help" thing and I may be wrong but I seem to recall her forcing that crap on the other members of "The Whiz."

[R138} Warwick cut way back on touring in the 70s when her kids were young. She didn't do concert tours to promote her new albums as she did in the past (and she would do again in the 80s and 90s). She was living in LA at the time (her estate was next door to newly divorced Cher's and her eldest son grew up with Chasity) and wanted to be a hands-on single mom to her two sons. She described in her book that she would drive them to school / pick them up; make them their breakfast, lunch and dinner each day, and spend quality time with them in their formative years. Recording studios were in the LA area, close to home, and that is how she maintained a recording career. Like Ross, she cut down her concert tours to summer vacations with her kids - if she needed to travel at all (she enjoyed spending summers with her kids doing 'family' stuff instead of business).

As for Summer, she focused on being a stay-at- home mom as well with her two younger daughters Amanda and Brooklyn. She had regrets being so busy in the 70s and early 80s when her first daughter Mimi was young, and she wasn't 'at home' for her since she was travelling everywhere. She didn't want to do the same to Amanda and Brooklyn (which is when she decided to take a break and focus on painting - which she did from a studio in her home). I can only admire that.

If those ladies were having hits, they would have toured. But their careers were floundering.

[quote]Oh, please. Dionne was a notorious cunt.

But she was like the only black person to comment on ONJ's death. Oh wait that could also mean that ONJ was a racist.

Did the most misunderstood Black woman in America not comment on ONJ's passing?

[R154] Not sure who you are referring to as 'the most misunderstood Black woman in America' , but if it's Dionne Warwick - yes, she did. She did a beautiful tribute to her in an interview just a few weeks ago. (They've been friends since the mid-70s).

If you're referring to Madonna, no - she didn't.

[quote]But she was like the only black person to comment on ONJ's death.

So?

And which black person was she like?

Her pussy stinks!

r155

ONJ and Dionne were good friends. ONJ even did a tribute to Dionne on her lp "Ladies of Song."

you're definitely not the only one, stans of the other supremes are still bitching about her in youtube comments 60 fucking years later...

Dionne has had her moments. She’s not the most tactful person.

She was actually really good in a TV movie about a med student who becomes schizophrenic. I think it was called "Out of the darkness"

link to movie

No one wants to see this dried up hasbeen. The snark and criticism she’s received the past couple of decades is karmic. She’s shit in one too many peoples faces.

R155 Madonna released a brief condolences tweet on Olivia’s passing in August.

R162 she was good in that role.

Thats because even though ONJ was bubble gum for the most part, she had cred...even Mariah Carey had her guest at a few of her concerts...Australia, L.A., etc......side note...its also at a time when Mariah looked her best...not some overstuffed, tarted up sausage.

[Quote] she had cred...

She really didn't. I've been reading some of her old album reviews. Those guys at HiFi Stereo Review were particularly bitchy.

Thats because she wasnt cool to them r167...she was nothing but a bubblegum pop princess to them.

But she had cred to butterfly charm bracelet Mariah... I guess.

[quote]Comparing her to Ross is like comparing Warhol to an ad illustrator.

Ross is one of the best live performers in the business on par with Garland and Minnelli. Her concerts consistently broke records for decades and are still breaking them.

You sound ignorant.

Still breaking records for what? Oldest performer still trying to entertain gay men?

Yeah Streisand did a bit of cheesecake publicity- but she essentially is a great talent, that is her calling card- one poster implied that she sort of ignored Jason. She has said many times in interviews that the greatest achievement and reward in her life was her son. She never addresses his personal life beyond saying he is wonderful and she adores him. She lets him speak for himself. Both Ross and Streisand were good moms- their kids are stable thriving adults!

Isn’t one of Diana’s sons a pothead?

She's affected. Over the top, out there. Her music was great, though.

Vocally she may not be on a par with Streisand, but she has this amazing and very rare ability to make her audiences feel really really good. You always feel a shared joy at her live concerts.

I think she's matured and mellowed, and has since evolved from her younger pretentious self. She tours often, and makes Q&As a part of her show. She actually seems to enjoy talking with her audience.

(BTW, the teenager who speaks at the beginning of the video is her grandson, through daughter Rhonda. Rhonda's dad was Berry Gordy.)

Call me MISS Ross !!!!

Call me Miss CUNT

Is there a gofundme to pay for an editor for R8? So many words.

Let's face it Diana Ross was making hits for over 20 years and that is when five years for any pop artist was a long time.

She was the number two female artist behind ONJ, in the 70s,. Interestingly enough, for the first have of the decade Helen Reddy was the #1 female artist and for the second half of the 70s, Donna Summer was the #1 female artist.

Neither Diana nor ONJ was top for the first or second half of the decade, but overall they bested the others with longevity which really didn't come about till that later half of the 80.

FYI, Donna ranked 3rd overall for the 70s and Helen ranked #4, and for those wonderin Karen Carpenter was not counted but counted as part of a duo or group.

Reading the comments in r122 link. If Miss Ross ever reads those comments, she’ll open her veins. Wow.

There’s the number ranking troll again. R180 It doesn’t change anyone’s opinions ever

I think the son that married that Simpson girl is gay.

But you never know.

And at least I was never found passed out drunk in a Blockbuster parking lot.

Classic interview with Barbara, Mary, and Diana. Goes into the Supremes reunion drama. I have to say, Mary was a fool to not do this tour. Diana is right. All Mary had to do was show up and sing and get paid millions. But Mary was overly concerned with how much Diana was making, and Mary chose to make no money instead of the millions she would have made. Diana foolishly went forward with this “reunion” tour without Mary and I think it may have been cancelled after only a few shows. If Mary had been involved, it could have been a huge success.

Isn’t Diana Ross doing really D list venues these days? She must need money.

Her pussy STILL stinks!

I thought she was dead

Isn’t she 95 now?

Mary was so blinded by hatred and jealousy that she shot herself in the foot.

I think in some way it was worth any amount of money she might have made to see Diane humiliated.

And it worked.

[quote]Isn’t Diana Ross doing really D list venues these days? She must need money.

If you consider sold-out show at NYC Radio City Music Hall a few weeks ago......maybe.

Moron.

The Return to Love Tour wouldn't have been successful if Mary and Cindy were onboard. It was too ambitious. If they wanted to tour together, they should have started the tour in the UK & the rest of Europe. Diana hadn't been a chart force on homeground since 1984.

[quote]Let's face it Diana Ross was making hits for over 20 years and that is when five years for any pop artist was a long time.

She was the number two female artist behind ONJ, in the 70s,. Interestingly enough, for the first have of the decade Helen Reddy was the #1 female artist and for the second half of the 70s, Donna Summer was the #1 female artist.

Neither Diana nor ONJ was top for the first or second half of the decade, but overall they bested the others with longevity which really didn't come about till that later half of the 80.

FYI, Donna ranked 3rd overall for the 70s and Helen ranked #4, and for those wonderin Karen Carpenter was not counted but counted as part of a duo or group.

From everything I've read, Linda Ronstadt was the #1 female artist in the 70s, until Donna Summer dethroned her in 1978. Ronstadt was the highest paid female recording artist from 1972 -1980, until Donna Summer signed with Geffen and became the highest paid female artist. That lasted a year - Ross dethroned Summer when she became the highest paid in 1981 with RCA, and after that I believe it was Madonna when she renewed in the mid 80s.

Mary was very shortsighted not doing that tour with Diana.

Think of all the lost opportunities to start singing the lead over Diana while wearing a "surprise!" better outfit--and talking between songs: "Funny--well some of you all might say 'shocking'--story about Diane and the 'management' at Motown."

Mmph... Just be jealous, bitches. I'm 98% sure that the original poster is some Black "Lipstick Alley" bitch QUEEN who is STILL arguing about that ghetto gal Florence Ballard and that Ross is only where she is now because she fucked Berry Gordy a few times. YES! I SAID IT!!! Or, it's one of Mary Wilson's Queens who is trying to keep that no-talent whore's memory alive even though she really had no talent--except for fucking every man she could and couldn't have been too good at that since she never landed any of them. YES! I said it!!!

Listen children... Ross has (and not had) a 50 plus year career and it is still going strong. She is STILL selling out venues, pulls down $250K/week minimum, and is making new music whether you like it or not. Unlike her "contemporaries" she does not have to do talk shows, participate in stupid reality shows, or stage marketing scams ie "Farewell" tours where she says "farewell" for 10 plus years or more to make her money. I tell ya... Cher and Barbra Streisand should be sued for false advertising...

Her children are well-adjusted (and RICH) unlike many of those "others" children who are messes in many cases. They tend to live off of the name of their mother.

And, my Baby-Girl, Baby Love, is living her best life and has the financing to prove it! Miss Ross just bought another FABULOUS house!!!

R194 Types like a pressed drag queen.

[quote][R194] Types like a pressed drag queen.

Well, everyone wants to be Diana Ross, honey...

R196 it’s no longer 1969.

R190 is proof that Beyoncé isn’t the only one who has idiotically obsessed keepers for stans. I pity it.

More about the house in... ARCHITECTURAL DIGEST, btw...

[quote]Ross, who was crowned "Female Entertainer of the Century' by Billboard in 1976, still has a pretty robust career at 78 years old. The “Baby Love” singer released her 25th album last year and ended an international tour last month. With properties in Connecticut and California, the Golden Globe-winner has come a long way from humble beginnings at her childhood home in Detroit.

Is Dionne still cleaning and is that pie girl available to come over to make some pies for the housewarming party?

Still a hasbeen.

She needs to rest

[quote][R190] is proof that Beyoncé isn’t the only one who has idiotically obsessed keepers for stans. I pity it.

You're proven wrong and this is your retort? Like I said..... Moron.

R202 you have not proven anyone wrong. Cunt.

Yes I did moron. You said she was at "D list venues". I pointed out she sold out Radio City a few weeks ago.

For the 3rd time...you're a moron.

Some friends of mine were hired by Diana Ross to shoot the video for her mid-80's flop single, "Dirty Looks".

They said she was a complete bitch and that they would never work with her again.

I do like her voice and a lot of her music, though I don't get why people think she's so charismatic. How much charisma does it take to change outfits 10 times a night, smile like an insane, bug-eyed banshee, and stand in front of a wind machine so your weave blows all around you?

What people refer to as her "charisma" is really just a carefully curated public image: beautiful, glamorous, classy, and slightly aloof. An old-school "star", in other words, a part she played extremely well when she was at her best.

She had the right combination of talent, ambition and luck...probably a little more ambition and luck than talent.

She’s a huge star, she has a place in pop music history for certain. But I find her music limited, with the best being when she was a Supreme. Sometimes it’s so bad (the girls especially) that it’s good in retrospect. But I thought it was cool when I was a kid (except when she sang show tunes).. She might have become a big movie star if the US wasnt essentially racist and openly so in her prime.

R206 pfffffft

Her solo stuff has historically been so hit and miss. An album of hers would have two, three good songs at best. The rest of them were usually filler. And there’s more bad stories about her than good. So team haters.

That's true of most popstars. Why waste good songs on album tracks? That's the record company reasoning.

[quote]And there’s more bad stories about her than good. So team haters.

But, you see... THAT'S what you bitches want to read and hear. It makes money for those that are "doin' the tellin'" I'm not defending Ross. Some of the stories might be true and/or misinterpreted. She addresses the issue in some Barbara Walters interview. What I respect about her that she pays that nonsense no mind. Her concert tickets are still selling. She's in demand. The money is rolling in... Why should she concern herself with what some background girl has said about her?

Sorry r210 we can agree to disagree. Everyone sees what they want including you…

Don’t like Ross. Never will. And I don’t have to, do I?

You absolutely DO NOT have to like her. BUT, if nothing else I would think that you would respect the longevity of her career and how she still works... A LOT! Granted, you may wonder "how can this be?"

[quote]Mary was very shortsighted not doing that tour with Diana.

Mary Wlson was an IDIOT! Even she knew that after she let that $5M scot-free paycheck slip through her fingers.

I loved Diana as a child and I’m 35. My grandfather taped her late 80’s greatest hits live show and I watched it religiously as a child.

But she definitely fell out of popularity with my generation. Hip-hop reintroduced her music to my generation because so many of her songs were sampled in the 90’s.

And now she’s just gone. My sister doesn’t know her. I just recently introduced her to The Supremes.

She’s ugly

R211 I don’t care for her either. It’s okay.

Honestly, some of you don't even understand the level of fame the woman had attained early on in her career. The Supremes were second only to the Beatles. Donna Summer? Olivia Newton John? Not even Cher enjoyed Ross' level of fame until she got into acting and won an Oscar. Ross' only true competition was Streisand, both who are rightly deserving and legitimately understood to be true entertainment ICONS.

[R217] You're forgetting Aretha.

Aretha was never a multimdeia star.

*multimedia

It doesn’t matter how much fame she attained. No to me, anyway. I dislike her. There’s a few folks in showbiz that I don’t like, regardless of their level of success.

[quote]Honestly, some of you don't even understand the level of fame the woman had attained early on in her career.

Of course, they don't R217. Most of them are just caught up in some kind of time warp in which they just perpetually lament about what Ross did to poor Flo and Mary. They feel that those two had no responsibilty or accountability to "whatever" happened to them in their lives. It's always that mean-ole bitch Ross with her terrible weaves that made their lives miserable. For some reason they never remember that it was Mary who walked away from a "free and clear" $5M paycheck and that Flo married a charlatan that stole her money. Or they're the ones who are upset because that heifer who screeches, rolls all over the stage floor, while kicking off her shoes, isn't much more successful and recognized.

Those of us who do like her, and even those who don't like her but can appreciate her success/achievements, should just do as Ross does... leave these people alone. Let them remain in their own bubble while the rest of us moves on.

Troll at R39 about marrying and dating black, there is a big difference in Queen Bey and Diana as the type of person. You just know Diana is the type to have white husband, it doesn't make her any less black, she didn't straighten her hair and paint it blonde. Poor women in black community, you treat them like public property and are offended when they marry white guys, as if it was your own wife cheating you.

There’s a few celebrities out there whose success in their chosen fields is mystifying to me. Gisele, Beyoncé, the Hemsworth brothers, Bob Dylan, Taylor Swift…tons. Dishonorable mention to Robert Redford. I see that they are successful but they don’t do anything to impress me.

Add Diana Ross to the list. Okay, she’s been successful. But I don’t love her singing or her attitude, the latter which has been documented by more than just Mary Wilson.

R221 and R205 . Yes.

And do not ever compare her to Barbra Streisand or LiZa. Ever. Or Cher for that matter.

Aretha had no respect for her. She called her "Diane" to her last day. Aretha was an absolute giant compared to her. There are so many very talented people out here who didn't mistreat people like Gladys Knight, who was incredibly talented.

People like to parrot the notion that Ross isn't much of a singer... but when people try to sing Ross' songs... e.g. Aretha's "It's My Turn."

[Quote] Aretha had no respect for her. She called her "Diane" to her last day. Aretha was an absolute giant compared to her. There are so many very talented people out here who didn't mistreat people like Gladys Knight, who was incredibly talented.

The irony of this post, when Gladys Knight has detailed the multiple times Aretha apparently mistreated her...

[quote]Aretha had no respect for her.

LIES!

[quote]In a YouTube clip, Franklin stated that she was a fan of Ross' when she saw her perform with the Supremes. While the artists had mutual respect, they weren't best friends.

"when she performed with the Supremes..." That is an important distinction. I repeat: Aretha had no respect for Diane.

I wonder if her reputed horrible Divatude can be attributed to a certain dietary supplement. It was the 1970s after all, and don't people who regularly use such a dietary supplement given to wild mood swings and behavioral patterns. Any scoop re this likely scenario?

She sure was skinny, and even much skinnier at times than she already was.

Aretha looks plenty happy to pose with Ross here.

Compare her countenance to that of her encounter with Tina Turner...

Tina and Aretha had Sam Cooke in common.

Intrigued that this crowd has issue with Diana Ross being a bitch.

I thought we celebrate that here at the Data Lounge but bitching about a diva being a bitch IS quintessentially Data Lounge, no?

'Bout to get heated...

Damn. Dionne's father spat her out.

All smiles here. What material is Dee Dee's suit?

R224, you don’t get Dylan? Oy. Suggest you look into the music he has composed and the lyrics he has written since 1960. I suspect that you don’t know.

This is a thread about performers. Plenty of people don't enjoy Dylan as a performer.

Did Mary sport this hairstyle often? It looks half '50s, half '80s.

Diana is one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she has a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

R243 that’s the biggest crock of shit I ever saw.

R244 do you know where you're going to ? do you like the things that life is showing you ?

for R244

Best Ross concert ever. At her peak in 1979. Remember the very first time it was broadcasr on HBO - first time I ever saw Ross. Just a kid.

[quote]Aretha was an absolute giant compared to her.

She was a giant compared to almost anyone.

If she had gained anymore weight, she would have been bedridden.

Diana is a beautiful woman who sings like an angel and can act. Aretha Franklin is a fat fug who screams. Ther's a world of difference

Aretha was a mixed live performer. Ross has never lost the hunger to "win" onstage.

Aye. Ross was indeed an apex live performer. She loved the stage. Loved it!

That's what separated Ross from Streisand - Ross loved the energy of performing in front of an audience. Streisand didn't - she stayed away from performing for nearly 30 years, blaming stage fright. Where Ross enjoyed the stage, Streisand enjoyed making movies.

and also, Streisand is white

Barbra also had more money than God very early in her career and could afford to coast and pursue her whims. Remember, for the early and most successful part of her career, Ross didnt make the big bucks. A nice sum, but not the big bucks. Berry Gordy paid them just enough to keep them quiet for the most part and took in the big money. Thats why everyone left the label as soon as they could

oh, and also streisand was jewish

in fact they have absolutely nothing in common

Ill tempered divas? Of course, they have things in common.

40 years ago this past September, Ross released "Silk Electric" which was a mishmash of music (most left over from her 'Why Do Fools...' album, when it was cut back from a double LP to a single LP) . "Muscles" - a song penned by Michael Jackson about his pet cobra (wink, wink) was the lead-off single and hit #10. "So Close" (a left-over from the "Fools" recording session) was the second single, and just nicked the Top 40.

The album peaked at #27, but ended up selling Gold (500,000 copies). The cover was by Warhol. It was the end of her hot streak.

Barry Gordy groomed Diana to be a crossover artist. He wanted her to be a star celebrated by white fans as well as Black. But in the Black community she was not celebrated the way she was by white fans. That's a fact.

[quote]But in the Black community she was not celebrated the way she was by white fans. That's a fact.

Diahann Carroll faced the same dilemma, R259. Why do you think that is?

Well, Richard Rodgers and Vic Damone weren't exactly Black Panthers...

Whitney Houston had the same problem in the 80s with her first two albums - she showed them! She became a junkie and married Bobby Brown to get street cred.

[quote] Mary Wlson was an IDIOT! Even she knew that after she let that $5M scot-free paycheck slip through her fingers.

Child, I would have had my fatal heart attack 20 years earlier if I'd done that tour with Diane!

No amount of money is worth spending 3 months on the road with that heifer!

Besides, I got to enjoy the sweet, sweet pleasure of being the one who single-handedly destroyed that fake-ass "reunion" with those two bitches she'd just met the night before. You can't put a price on such delicious revenge.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Diane, I truly do! As long as I don't have to see her or talk to her more than once every five years!

Touch...

Would Mary have got the money upfront? Or would the tour cancellation a few shows in have left her with only a small amount?

The point, R264, is that if Mary and Cindy had appeared as originally planned, then the tour would not have been cancelled and may have been a success.

The tour wouldn't have been canceled a few shows in because everyone wanted to see Diana, Mary and Cindy. It would have been a massive hit tour. But Mary dropped out, and convinced Cindy in dropping out - so Diana teamed up with two other 'Supremes' (from the late 70s) and no one cared.

That's a shakey point. The Supremes may have been chart rivals to The Beatles in the 1960s but their stock did not stay as high. And with Ross' low stock by the end of the 1990s, the tour was too ambitious.

[quote]Would Mary have got the money upfront? Or would the tour cancellation a few shows in have left her with only a small amount?

I actually think that her money was guaranteed. Ugh! WHAT AN IDIOT!!!

[quote]No amount of money is worth spending 3 months on the road with that heifer!

For just 2-4 hours every other night? Mmph... (SMH)

I wonder if Mary really bought into the notion that Ross wasn't much of a singer. Did she really think Flo was The Voice?

Mary was realistic about her own singing. She said that she wasn't a great singer. She thought she was a great entertainer.

[quote]The Supremes may have been chart rivals to The Beatles in the 1960s but their stock did not stay as high.

Did not stay as high? Are you kidding me? It's over 50 years and people are STILL talking and arguing about the Supremes, Flo Ballard, Mary Wilson, and what that bitch Ross did to them.

The Beatles provided a template the Supremes could have followed, with their "Anthology" project.

A TV special, telling their story in their own words, featuring rarely seen performance clips, interviews, etc. An accompanying coffee table book.

A new "Anthology" album/CD featuring outtakes, rarities, and possibly a couple of new songs by the three girls.

Make a big deal out of it, and treat their legacy with the respect it deserves. They could have done something really cool and special.

Instead, Diana just wanted an big-budget, but ultimately fairly slapdash, cash-grab.

I disagree. The Beatles garner more respect because they are men, they were songwriters and their music satisfies white men's view of themselves. The Supremes could not compete with that.

*str8 white men's

[Quote] Instead, Diana just wanted an big-budget, but ultimately fairly slapdash, cash-grab.

In Diana's defence, her latest album was not only a bomb but it was the end of her contract with Motown. She was at a low point in terms of her career AND her personal life (divorce).

Mary and Florence didn't even do the backup singing on the later albums. That's how mediocre their singing was. Flo was difficult to handle and Mary wasn't as devoted as Diana, who had the 'IT' factor and the necessary drive. Most of the hate directed towards Diana is rooted in petty jealousy.

But whatever, Miss Ross outlived them all and still loves to perform.

Some of the posters above know nothing about the Beatles.

Mmph... what a bitch.

[R271] I don't think that's Ross' style at all. She has always said she is one to look forward, not relive the past. She doesn't dwell in the negativity of the past - and what you described would be an open door to negativity for her.

R278, I've seen Diana Ross perform and all she does is nostalgia. So much for "not looking back."

Who wants to hear new music from DR? Nobody

I like some of her old stuff, mainly when she was a Supreme. Catchy tunes. But her solo career wasn’t really as good.

Like The Supremes, but Diana Ross willingly fucked Gene Simmons so ...

ICONIC!

[quote]I wonder if Mary really bought into the notion that Ross wasn't much of a singer.

I don't know about that. Mary's delusion was that she was on the same level and equal to Ross.

[quote]Mary was realistic about her own singing. She said that she wasn't a great singer. She thought she was a great entertainer.

Ha! LOL! I didn't know she did comedy!

Once again, just because you like a celebrity doesn’t mean that others have to. That” you HAVE to look at their body of work and career” argument sounds like you want to force people to like Diana, Bob Dylan or any other celebrities you are a fan of. Disliking them is not an attack on you, but an opinion. When I was younger, I was like that. I thought that if people disliked someone who was my favorite whatever, I took it as an attack on my tastes and values. It’s not.

The Beatles deserve more respect, they did far more than Diana and The Supremes creatively. Any broad with that range could have been gussied up and sang those songs.

And The Supremes themselves were seen as prissy and boring even by creative white people at the time. They were nonthreatening and non-challenging music for middle America, which to be fair, was a landmark in itself during the civil rights era.

R287 You're right. But Berry Gordy's strategy worked. It helped to make many Whites realize that "Hey, Blacks are no different than us!" Many Blacks actually wanted that type of acceptability, too. In any case, Motown was pivotal in introducing Black talent to the mainstream in ways never seen before, and Diana Ross was the golden goose of it.

Mary Wilson's point was that there was nothing particularly special about Diane. Barry Gordy could have chosen almost anyone to be "Diana Ross". Including Mary, whoactually did have a better voice. Mary, however, could be attitude ish. Diane was simple. She was ambitious to be famous. Once she hooked up with BArry Gordy and got pregnant, she let her diva come out full time. Then she was singled out "Diana Ross and the Supremes" and once she left the group they floundered. It had an impact. There were other girl groups who didn't go down that path.

Mary did not have a better voice. Check out her comatose reading of "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." Mary had a heavy voice that was the enemy of melody. She was no Gladys Knight.

Mary and Florence both had good voices, but they were so used to singing backup. They didn’t practice at being solo enough. Of course, Berry Gordy didn’t help matters any by focusing on Diana.

Florence's solo records are dreadful. Ross improved her vocals very quickly after their first couple of singles.

Flo was the one with the heavy voice. Both Flo and Mary had much stronger voices than Diana and that was exactly the point. Barry wanted to break the sterotype of the "soul Singer." He wanted someone that could easily cross over to sing "white music" not "race music." He wanted to move away from the "urban sound." Why? Economics. White audiences willing to spend money. So he was after wider appeal. He grew up in the 40's..-50's. Segrregation and race music was the way things were done.

I’ve heard Florence’s solo efforts. Disappointing. I feel bad for her. She got so many tough breaks…being raped, bullied by Gordy and Diana and marrying that lowlife and dying so young. No one deserved what life gave Florence.

I felt bad for Mary to. Some extent as well, especially because of that horrible car accident she was in that resulted in her son’s death. She must’ve been wracked with guilt. She fell asleep at the wheel on her way to a singing engagement, didn’t she? Rough.

[Quote] Both Flo and Mary had much stronger voices than Diana and that was exactly the point.

But they didn't. No one was going wild over Flo's "Buttered Popcorn." She was no Etta James. And Mary speaks more than she sings.

*spoke

Diana Ross' voice is absolutely unique. There is nobody who sounds like her. And she became an amazing vocalist, interpreter and performer.

[quote]And The Supremes themselves were seen as prissy and boring even by creative white people at the time.

Even the Beatles thought that. When they met them, they were expected hip, streetwise black women from the projects. What walked in were three prudes wearing fox pieces, matching hats and pumps, and who disapproved of them smoking weed.

It is nonsense and revisionism to claim that either Flo or Mary had better voices than Ross. The proof is in the success.

Ross was a success, not because she had a technically brilliant voice, but because she had a very pleasing voice that was instantly recognizable. The other two didn't have marketable voices.

Florence's voice was soulful, and if she had some confidence and proper management after leaving Motown, she might've been able to sing the type of songs Natalie Cole recorded. She blamed Berry and Diana for her failures, but the ultimate blame was her own self.

Actually, she did get therapy before she died. She knew about her issues. Had she survived that heart attack, she might've had second chance at a recording career.

The chances of being a success as a pop singer are so slight.

And all types of ineffable qualities go into it. Sometimes, it's just having lucky timing.

Flo and Mary were suited to being fungible backup singers.

Florence was given some decent songs. SHE didn't deliver.

Madeline Bell made a better of fist of the same song. It would have suited Jean Terrell well.

Mary Wilson's "You're What's Missing In My Life."

Scherrie Payne was leagues ahead of Mary with her version.

Collectively, the great cross-over entertainers of the '60s -- Sammy Davis, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier etc -- had a hugely positive effect on racial understanding in America. Diana Ross was at the forefront, and her role, like those of the others, has never been properly appreciated. Perhaps because she's never made an issue of it, she just keeps singing.

Oprah Winfrey has shown Ross a lot of appreciation.

Obama would never admit it, but those performers -- yes, Oprah included -- paved his way to the presidency.

Interesting, R303.

For me, Madeline Bell (whoever she is) delivered a slightly better performance than Florence Ballard. But what this made me realize is that I'm just not a fan of the song. It's an "alright" song but not THE song. I think a big part of song writing is being able to discover, hone into, exploit and then capitalize on a singer's personality. Holland Dozier Holland hit Ross in the heart with this. They had this very skinny, bug-eyed, coquettish, girl. That's who they wrote for.

Florence Ballard has been aligned with Etta James. I don't think that is a too far off comparison. She was brassy, brash, and could have a hard edge to her singing. The song linked below is a song (or, something similar) that I really feel that Florence Ballard would have broke the charts with. The song has a late 60s-early 70s flair. Mary could have never done a song like this (she had trouble with "Mary Had A Little Lamb" -- bless her heart), and while Ross can surprise with her vocals ie "The Boss" album, "Carry On", and even gospel, I don't envison her being able to do a song like this successfully.

[R306] From everything I read, it was Lena Horne who tried pushing Ross back behind the others. Horne herself was a force to be reckoned with in the 60s, fighting for racial understanding and equality in America with the others you mentioned. She didn't like the 'new girl' coming in and trying to upstage her (again, from everything I've read over the years).

[R308] I disagree - as a matter of fact, I know he has given Oprah much credit for his push in politics. He was present at her famous "Legends Ball Weekend" she held in May 2006 - when he was a newly minted senator. He gt plenty of press and photos taken with Oprah and the other ladies who were present there (including high-ranking politicians). He has thanked her over the years in public, and has shown his gratitude in many ways during his presidency.

Florence never sang as hard as Jill Scott does in that track. And I doubt she was held back from doing so...

Compare Florence to Dee Dee Warwick...

Or Irma Thomas...

Or even histrionic Gene Pitney...

Mary did a version of "Respect" that isn't bad. Declamatory songs would have suited her better than anything lyrical.

[Quote]For me, Madeline Bell (whoever she is)

R309 She is an American who achieved fame in England. Before that, she was a gospel singer. Florence probably could sing gospel, too. Her voice seems to suggest that she had some church training.

Madeline Bell just turned 80 over the summer. The soft, heady part of her voice is surprisingly intact.

Ha! GREAT comparison, R312. I listened to R311 and thought that the producer should have been tarred, feathered, and dragged through the streets. Then I listened to the DeeDee Warwick rendition and liked it. So, Florence clearly had her limitations.

Florence took to drinking hard. I expect it affected her voice by the time of the ABC Records sessions. This is abysmal:

OH, R313!!! Juke joint/chit' lin' circuit music!!!!

BRING IT ON!!!

Somebody brang me a drank!!!

[quote]Mary did a version of "Respect" that isn't bad. Declamatory songs would have suited her better than anything lyrical.

Mmph...

"Jesus wept"

Just another uppity old Negress.

Thank you, R317. I enjoyed that. Thank you for exposing me to Madeline Bell too. I had never heard of her.

[quote]Obama would never admit it, but those performers -- yes, Oprah included -- paved his way to the presidency.

I believe it is more the infamous (mostly) straight white men in the position of power from Wall Street.

Nonsense R324. They certainly wanted Obama to believe that, but putting a Kennedy in as ambassador and a Pritzker as a cabinet officer must have quickly disabused him of the notion there was a secret liberal cabal running the government.

You are silly R325. You are like Russians who don't believe that KGB brought Putin in power.

Obama, nor any other US president, would have never come close to White house, if he wasn't backed by the lords who run the US. Conservative or liberal lords.

Diana Ross was a fool to turn down Luther Vandross. He worshipped The Supremes and would have created something special for her.

His only misfire was that album he produced for Dionne Warwick. Very uneven product.

She should have stayed with Ryan O'Neal - she was perfectly matched with that psychotic asshole.

[quote] Obama, nor any other US president, would have never come close to White house, if he wasn't backed by the lords who run the US. Conservative or liberal lords.

That would make a good novel, fiction of course. This is proven false by the immediate and virulent anti-Obama campaigns by the Kochs, Mitch McConnell and the like.

[quote] Diana Ross was a fool to turn down Luther Vandross. He worshipped The Supremes and would have created something special for her.

Agree. A missed opportunity for Diana, particularly when you consider that her post-Motown recording output was so mediocre and underwhelming.

The same as they say in Russia R329

Wasn't Obama fighting many wars in Middle east too. They bring these guys on these positions to achieve their economic goals with " other means".

R330, did she give a reason why? My guess is that both of them were major control freaks and Diana Ross wasn’t about to give in to anybody. Even Aretha battled with him over creative control over the two albums he produced for her…

[Quote] Diana Ross was a fool to turn down Luther Vandross.

No she wan't. The shitty albums he produced for Aretha and Dionne should tell you that. Luther spread himself very thin... He was good for a single here and there, not an album.

*wasn't

Luther's own albums were uneven, with songs that mostly didn't cross over to the pop chart. His vocals are what gave him his recording career. His songwriting was patchy. And as much as his fans loved his remakes, they generally didn't reach hit single status either.

I strongly disagree. Aretha’s first album by him, as well as Cheryl Lynn’s INSTANT LOVE, were shimmering collections of great rythym and blues music.

The material was trivial. Aretha mostly let her talent go to waste on Arista.

We’ll agree to disagree r337. But I am partial to Aretha’s Narmada Michael Walden stuff as well.

Narada certainly did his thing with "Who's Zoomin' Who" and "Freeway of Love" but his crowning achievement for a female act is Stacey Lattisaw's "Let Me Be Your Angel" album. It's a beautifully varied and cohesive set.

She’s ugly and over hyped

Why is everyone avoiding what is the obvious reason? Luther Vandross is (was) too identified with the Black community. Yes, he could sing. Yes, maybe a song or two would have been hits--on the R & B charts. But an entire album? No ma'am. No sir. That's NOT the Ross way. It's the same reason of why she has 100% refused to do any type of Tyler Perry movie.

Were Ashford & Simpson "too" identified with the Black Community? They were never a big pop force.

Ross saved money by producing herself on RCA. After the Bee Gees floppage, she tried to sell the next project as "Red Hot" R&B, when it really wasn't.

Ross turned down "Empire." I don't believe it's about antiblackness, though.

[quote]Were Ashford & Simpson "too" identified with the Black Community? They were never a big pop force.

I disagree. Besides many of their songs transcending racial lines the couples singing careers did also. Their videos were quite popular and in demand on MTV.

Not really. Ashford & Simpson had one big Pop hit, "Solid." They were more black identified. Ross worked with them. She also worked with plenty of R&B types when she returned to Motown. "Every Day Is a New Day" is mostly R&B.

[quote]Ashford & Simpson had one big Pop hit, "Solid."

It only takes one. Think Chubby Checker, Fats Domino, or Solomon Burke. There are others too.

[quote]They were more black identified. Ross worked with them.

They were MOTOWN identified

[quote]Ross turned down "Empire." I don't believe it's about antiblackness, though.

-Didn't need the money.

-Didn't need exposure

-Participate in a television serial about a Black entertainment company? C'mon now...

[Quote] Participate in a television serial about a Black entertainment company? C'mon now...

The narrative you're painting makes it sound like she would have refused to star opposite Brandy, yet she didn't. Ross isn't obliged to work with anyone because of their skin color. As I already mentioned, Ross tried to go more R&B in the 1990s... Why? Because R&B began to rule by the mid 1990s. Even Cher's team tried to have her jump on the train with that pedestrian remix of "One By One."

[Quote] They were MOTOWN identified

And Motown liked to sell lots of records.... Imagine that.

[quote]The shitty albums he produced for Aretha and Dionne should tell you that.

TOTAL NONSENSE, Luther Vandross produced some gorgeous albums for Dionne Warwick and Aretha Franklin. Beautifuly sophisticated arrangements and wonderful songs. They just weren't pop hits material.

Just check out 'It's Just Your Love' and the duet with Levy Stubbs on Aretha's album 'Jump To It', or Luther's duet with Dionne 'How Many Times Can We Say Goodbye' on the album he produced for her. Absolute musical sophistication!

And why weren't they pop hits material? Music of all genres can hit the pop charts. Who has remade those album tracks? Few and far between because the songs aren't up to much.

Poor Levi Stubbs barely even got credit. Was it a label issue or something?

Here's Luther and Dionne duetting live.

You need to have your ears checked R333

[quote]Who has remade those album tracks? Few and far between because the songs aren't up to much.

I can't think of anybody who's talented enough, vocally and musically, to even try to sing the duet Luther did with Dionne, esp live.

[quote]Luther's duet with Dionne 'How Many Times Can We Say Goodbye'

It's simply a beautiful song and lyric with a story that many can relate to. I put this song on the same level with two other songs that I really like. One done by Aaron Neville and Linda Ronstadt; "Don't know much" and the other by Ross's daughter Rhonda that I really enjoy.

I'll admit that slush is not my thing, r354.

Fuck. Dionne sounded like her Got2B.Real counterpart by 1985, didn't she.

Ross was offered the role of "Shug" in Spielberg's movie 'The Color Purple'. He really wanted her to play the role, but she wanted her name above the title and wanted her role expanded - so she could be considered for a 'Best Actress' Oscar, and not a 'Best Supporting Actress'. Spielberg was considering these changes but Alice Walker put her foot down and said 'no' - Shug was not going to be elevated to a major character in the movie. There'd be no changes to Walker's story.

He then offered the role to Tina Turner, who turned it down - said she already lived the life of Shug.

And neither had reservations over the gay kiss?

R351, I love, love, love “It’s Just Your Love”…exquisite song.

Diana Ross is a legend and a major talent and I won't hear a word against her.

[quote]Participate in a television serial about a Black entertainment company? C'mon now... "The narrative you're painting makes it sound like she would have refused to star opposite Brandy, yet she didn't. Ross isn't obliged to work with anyone because of their skin color"

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. To ask Ross to participate in a drama serial about a Black Entertainment Company is the same as asking her to play the role of Deena in Dream Girls. Why would she do something like that which would use Motown and/or The Supremes as a baseline?

I always thought that a sincere interest and possible success that could have lured Ross into a serial project would have had to be something like "The Colbys." A Black multi-billionaire family in science, oil, or something other than entertainment, where Ross is the high-profiled matriarch that would become known by the jewelry and nothing but designer couture clothing she would wear. Other than that, television is too much work for a mature lady of her age.

Diana Ross never wanted to get too involved with the black community. How long did it take for ESSENCE magazine to convince her to pose on the cover? Few if any of the white mainstream magazines put her ass on the cover. And that one EBONY interview she gave after leaving Motown. The writer told her that some blacks accused her of not being involved with the community. She gave the lamest answer. “I NEVER think in terms of color or race…it’s about people!”. She deservedly got dragged in Letters to the Editor. Some charity in Harlem asked her to be a hostess for one of their fundraisers. She never responded to them. Who did? Liz Taylor, who graciously accepted and took photos with folks and signed autographs.

Of course, she was paid in turkey necks and gravy over rice.

[R360] That never came up in any of the interviews or articles covering the movie. Maybe they would have rewritten the scenes if Ross or Turner agreed to co-star ? Maybe they would've used some clever camera angles ?

Diana Ross did record a song written and produced by Luther Vandross for her 1987 Red Hot and Rhythm and Blues album.

R364 is talkin out his ass!

Rolling Stone.

Vanity Fair.

But not VOGUE, COSMO or GLAMOUR & ELLE.

[quote]Luther's own albums were uneven, with songs that mostly didn't cross over to the pop chart. His vocals are what gave him his recording career. His songwriting was patchy. And as much as his fans loved his remakes, they generally didn't reach hit single status either.

Ha! What a wonderful critique! I enjoyed reading it.

IMHO, (and agreeing with the above), Luther knew how to entertain an audience, and that really didn't include him. He was just the voice. His shows were always about the songs and his background singers. He always gave credit to The Supremes and the magic they created while on stage. It was that same magic that he wanted his backup singers to create.

[quote]R79 Gladys Knight is a wolf in sheep's clothing. —Ree

Diane was a WHORE in sheep’s clothing.

Damn. Luther commits to the choreography with about as much enthusiasm as Mariah Carey does.

Didn't you fuck a pair of Womack brothers, Miss Wells?

[quote] “A fresh breeze,” says Diana Ross of her signature scent, which she bottled into[bold] “Diamond Diana,” [/bold]her first-ever fragrance. “It’s light enough, yet exquisite enough. . . . I wanted the fragrance to have a little bit of a mystery. I wanted it to sing.” It’s true that the blend of musk, orange blossom, jasmine, and black rose, shot through with a crisp green feeling, is as fiercely feminine as Ross herself.

Was this a decent scent?

It looks like you could stab someone with it.

[quote]One done by Aaron Neville and Linda Ronstadt; "Don't know much"

Much more a sing along song compared to Luther's duet with Dionne.

Aretha's duet with Levi Stubbs had the same sophisticated musical and vocal quality.

By sophisticated, do you mean the melody doesn't stick?

One dissatisfied customer at Fragrantica:

[italic]The packaging is nice but I nearly stabbed my self with the pointed plastic top. This has a potent synthetic scent to it, the fragrance doesn’t last long, in about one hour the fragrance smells like strong baby powder.”

[quote][R351], I love, love, love “It’s Just Your Love”…exquisite song.

It really is R361, written and produced by Luther too. The background vocals and arrangements are absolutely superb. Plus a gorgeous piano solo by Geoge Duke.

Your Love sounds like an extended intro to Jump To It. Lazy Loofah.

I’m not buying her perfume!

[italic]”Tried it yesterday in Lord & Taylor. Great opulent opening, seductive. Then turns into something strange and strong… can't tell which note it is, but not very pleasant.”

“Yes, it will remind you of Obsession ... but a bottle that has been left in the sun for about 15 years.”

[Quote] left in the sun for about 15 years.

Gurl Please stop this drivel! Just stop it !! Ms. Ross is infinity! Ms. Ross is Elegance !!!

She’s not a great singer

MISS Ross. She's an old-fashioned gal.

Diana's Stolen Moments (Not Husbands, Mary!) show.

Now she’s just old

"It has taken me thirty years to understand the deepness of the feelings that I have." Diana IS Elise

[quote]Now she’s just old

And rich!

I love Mary Wilson's telling of their encounter with Eartha Kitt - Diane gushing and Eartha silent, closing her handbag and walking away.

[quote] I love Mary Wilson's telling of their encounter with Eartha Kitt - Diane gushing and Eartha silent, closing her handbag and walking away.

I think it was Martha Reeves that told that story of "Diane" and the other Motown girls meeting Eartha Kitt.

I think it was Martha Reeves that told that story of "Diane" and the other Motown girls meeting Eartha Kitt.

I read it in Mary Wilson's book - she was there, Martha wasnt, same as the story of Claudette Robinson beating the shit out of Diane for shagging Smokey.

I’d lick her sons asshole

[quote]I read it in Mary Wilson's book - she was there, Martha wasnt, same as the story of Claudette Robinson beating the shit out of Diane for shagging Smokey.

Mary had to call in a psychic, therapist, or both, to assist her with her own memories when she was writing that book. So, who knows what is fact, something that she heard about, or even if some things were just pure fiction.

Few performers have the charisma that Diana Ross has. Her voice is unique. Her phrasing and song styling as well. There were better voices at Motown perhaps but Ross touched some kind of cultural nerve there other women at Motown did not. I was a teenager when The Supremes were at their height. I stood outside the doors of my town's record shop the morning I knew a new Supremes record was in stock. Still remember how her voice in those songs made me tingle. Just saw her in concert last month. Say what your will but she still has it.

Diana Ross is like OJ Simpson in the sense that she has little use for blacks unless they can do something for her.

One thing that is overlooked many times when there are discussions about Ross is her upbringing. I'm not dismissing single parents and the good job that the vast majority of them do but Diana Ross hails from a 2 parent home. Most of all the children did well in their own right. Her older sister is Dr. Barbara Ross and her younger sister became a teacher and is now a politician. Her maternal grandfather was a Pastor of his own Baptist church. I really don't know what the brothers do/did but I believe only one Ross child became involved with drugs and addiction.

She comes from a family that believed in education, good values, and good morals . A lot of those trope stereotypes thought of as the bane of being a child from the ghetto does not apply to her. Two factoids stick out in my mind. The first one was the disappointment that her father had (and she was at the top of her game by this time and marrying Arne Naess) that she never attended college. Ross, herself, for the longest time had insecurities about this. The second was a quote and objective given by her mother. She worked to raise her children to be good, quality, people.

Are you leaving out T Boy Ross in your assessment?

^Mmph... and look at her! This JEALOUS bitch here! She couldn't wait to post her snide/nasty post because her Ross hatred is so deep and vile that she has shown the rest of us that either she can't read and/or comprehend. We'll try this again...

[quote] I really don't know what the brothers do/did but I believe only one Ross child became involved with drugs and addiction.

Yes, an aside that glosses over a dark part of the family history...

Bitches can come from good families too…

Miss Ross always had her finger on the pulse. Remember her new jack swing album "Workin' Overtime"?

I don't know why Diana is considered a """sell out""" but Tina isn't. You know, it was Tina who openly said this:

[quote]"I wouldn't do a black picture if I was dying. It took me twenty years to get out of that black shit and I ain't going back."

When r403 and what magazine?

R404 Quincy Jones's autobiography. That's when he and Spielberg wanted her in The Color Purple.

Wow. Disappointing but not a surprise, given what Tina went through, r404. After Ike Turner, I’m surprised that Tina didn’t become an out and out hermit.

[quote]Wow. Disappointing but not a surprise, given what Tina went through, [R404]. After Ike Turner, I’m surprised that Tina didn’t become an out and out hermit.

I'm not excusing Turner but she is hardly alone in feeling this way. There have been some Black entertainers and celebrities who have been caught voicing this type of sentiment aloud while many more voice these same type of sentiments (or worse) around the kitchen table. Most of this is all rooted in racism and stereotypes that are so deeply rooted that they have become institutional. What's the old saying? "All stereotypes have some degree of reality"? For whatever reasons (and some could be lack of education, exposure, etc.) it is an unwritten fact that Black audiences (people) do not pay, tip, or whatever else other nonsense. Is it wrong to feel this way? Of course, it is! But unfortunately, this has been a reality for many. Why would any performer want to limit themselves (their ability to make money) to just a Black audience or get pigeon-holed like that?

However, let's not limit this to just the performer/celebrity. What about Black people themselves? It grates my nerve if I hear a comment "S/he isn't Black enough". What does that mean? Just on and on...

She certainly wasn't well liked by Mary Wilson. At times she painted Diana as a cold, manipulative person who was interested in one person only, herself, and didn't care about anyone she hurt to get what she wanted.

As opposed to Mary, who took money from Diana a few short years before writing her "Dreamgirl" book...

R407, not talking about pigeonholing or limiting oneself to the black community in terms of entertainment product, but I mean participating in helping out, whether it be performing for events or speaking or helping to raise money for causes. Lena Horne and Diahann Carroll managed to do so while pandering to mainstream audiences. I think that is what pisses some people off regarding Diana.

Tina Turner, being BFF with Oprah, never ceases to amaze me. If Tina really hated her background and where she came from, she couldn't have picked any body worse than Oprah who's the personification of all what's wrong with black communities. Tina was just a nouveau riche uneducated girl from the south chasing money.

Tina has also whittled her nose down to next to nothing.

If Ross had work done, what did she have done? The only changes over the years that I can see are makeup and hair. Removing the chola eyebrows in the mid sixties was an improvement.

[quote]Miss Ross always had her finger on the pulse. Remember her new jack swing album "Workin' Overtime"?

—Anonymous

Actually, Ross fans try to forget that album. No one asked Ross, at 45, to imitate 23 year old Janet Jackson that year. A huge step backwards in Ross' career - and fans stayed away from it in droves (a complete flop for Ross; didn't even crack the Hott 100 on the Albums chart).

[Quote] Actually, Ross fans try to forget that album.

Not the Ross fans, all two of them, who swear her '80s recordings are her best.

[quote]Few performers have the charisma that Diana Ross has.

That's very true. I call it the Diana Ross mystique.

I recall attending the Motown play a few times. It was a very good play and a lot of fun. My only annoyance would be that I would want to see the actors sing and perform rather than the audiences singing loudly to the songs and dancing in the aisles. Anyway, the Diana Ross segment--"Reach Out and Touch". I was (and am to this day) amazed how the audiences that I were with reacted to this. These fools must have thought they were watching Ross herself. I recall that the theater noise would die down until you could hear a pin drop. Eyes would glaze over as if everyone was in a trance as they followed every move of "this actress" wearing a big ball gown, with hair pulled back into a bun like Eva Peron, talking in a soothing voice and singing to us. At the appropriate time the audiences are joining hands, waving them in the air, and singing at fever levels with Ross/the actress. The emotions were so high that it was orgasmic.

But, then it's over...

The actress just looks towards stage right with a stare into space and begins slowly to walk off stage as the lights dim. Her job/mission is completed and as always was successful.

That section of the play always got thunderous applause and standing ovation after standing ovation

By all means, R415, let us appreciate the real thing once more.

Diana may be a bitch but I love that she loves being a star.

Her Central Park performance is unlike anything else I've ever seen a pop star pull off. With the exception of Madonna falling and getting back up at the Brit Awards, Ross' performance in Central Park in 1983 is the stuff of legends, yet watching it on tape still feels like the stuff of legends.

Watching her move from a high-energy performance to uncertainty to strong resolve to keep going despite the torrential rain is beyond simple professionalism. It's incredible.

Really? Some of that performance is embarrassing. "Maniac"? No, thanks.

[quote]Watching her move from a high-energy performance to uncertainty to strong resolve to keep going despite the torrential rain is beyond simple professionalism. It's incredible.

I remember the newspaper headlines (remember those) the next day!

"Earth, Wind, Fire, & Diana"--NYPost

My God, Miss Ross lip-syncing in Central Park to her then-latest flop record, "Pieces of Shit" is so embarrassing to look back at now. Hideous costumes, lame choreography, awful song.

She's a legend, but not everything she touched was golden, and this goes to show just how awry things could go for her when she was fully in charge and without anybody around her to tell her "no".

That cat suit though! Absolutely stunning!

Love her, great singer, sensual and sophisticated woman.

Cut the crap about her and Black community, she is her own woman, not a sheep from a herd. And she looks black enough to me (no blonde straight hair).

The next day's performance (after the storm) was full of Diana's histrionics, but the night before when she battles the storm is amazing.

FunkyTownGrooves reissued Diana's RCA '80s albums with bonus tracks and mixes some years back. I remember fans saying how "underrated" her '80s RCA material is. I cannot agree. They just cannot stand up to her Motown albums. The quality dipped, especially when Diana herself took on the reins of producer. She was not a good producer.

I think Swept Away is her best RCA album because she allowed Lionel Richie, Daryl Hall, Bernard Edwards and Richard Perry to produce some of the songs and it gave the album a stronger sound.

R423 Yeah, I'm a fan, but I say the second night of her Central Park show is very mediocre, and her ego is in overdrive.

The first night is just classic. You can tell she was set to kick ass, but the wind, and other problems, including a ramp that was supposed to take her out to the audience but doesn't materialize, added to her frustration. She was struggling during Reach out, when the rain came pouring down and gave her a second wind and a triumphant ending.

I enjoy her 80s output for what it's worth - and it's really not worth much compared to her Motown years.

It seemed like for a while, she couldn't find her own identity. In 1985, she was aping Streisand with her Barry Gibb collaboration, but she was five years too late and no one was interested in her or Barry Gibb's music.

In 1989, she decided to ape Janet Jackson, but why bother ? Jackson was all over the radio, and she was the real deal.

1984's "Swept Away" sounded like rejects from Tina Turner's 'Private Dancer' album.

1983's "Ross" was one big mess from start to finish.

[quote] I remember fans saying how "underrated" her '80s RCA material is.

Yeah, fandom is strange that way. I see the same thing with Paul McCartney, who put out some great, classic albums post-Beatles, and a whole lot of mediocrity, but there are diehards who insist that "McCartney II" is a ground-breaking, experimental masterpiece, or that "Wild Life" is an unfairly maligned lost classic, and so on.

Diana Ross at RCA clearly cared way more about the album covers (many of which were quite striking), than the music contained within. As an artist in charge of her own career, she really blew it big time.

It's a shame because she was coming off such a hot streak at Motown in the late '70s/early '80s. I think The Boss is her best album and diana was a huge hit, and then she had big hits with It's My Turn and Endless Love.

She squandered it for the cheap-sounding Why Do Fools Fall in Love record.

She definitely let her ego run her career.

R428 Mirror Mirror was a good song

(KNOCK!) (KNOCK!) The Supremes are no more and the heyday years of Motown are not returning either. Either you like the woman and her music of today or you don't. If you don't, then simply move on to another time warp and occupy that. The FACT is that this woman is still making new music, selling out venues, and making money hands over fists! How many other of her contemporaries can boast the same thing? Call it living off of her past, luck, or anything else, but she is still current (even on Jeopardy where they think she is 90 years old), and her name alone still can command a room. She's still an international/worldwide superstar.

Doesn’t mean that people have to like her r431…

Let's not forget that leaving Motown was an absolute necessity by the time she signed with RCA. Gordy was never, ever going to come even close to matching that $20 million, which became the seed money for her $270 million today. She was tired of being working rich and sought to build a fortune. Hits are great for the music career, obviously, but also by that time she had attained Icon status translating to guaranteed lucrative concert work for decades to come. Smart woman had to make a smart move.

[quote]Let's not forget that leaving Motown was an absolute necessity by the time she signed with RCA. Gordy was never, ever going to come even close to matching that $20 million, which became the seed money for her $270 million today.

BEST decision she ever made! Gordy should be JAILED because of all of the money he made/stole from those people. Ross left Motown with less than $250K to her name.

Nobody's decrying her decision to sign with RCA. The criticism is about what she did musically once she got there.

You didn’t love Workin’ Overtime?

Workin’ Overtime was stank. Cornball aerobics music for frauen at Workout World.

No it wasn’t r437.

It was r438.

No fool. It was her feeble attempt at hip hop

Workin’ Overtime

Her later foray into Techno produced a much more likeable result - to my own ears, anyway. This was good which is why I can't understand why I never heard it until yeats after the release.

There's supposed to be an album of Harold Arlen standards that she recorded while at RCA that's been sitting in the vaults. There were rumors that she was going to have it released on her new label after Thank You last year since she has ownership of all of her RCA material.

There was one unreleased song issued for the Red Hot Rhythm and Blues reissue from FTG but that is the only unreleased track we have heard from the RCA years (Sweet Soul Music).

It's a shame that Hip-O-Select folded because their Diana Ross (and Supremes) reissues were gorgeous. The 2-CD sets of Last Time I Saw HIm, Touch Me in the Morning and Diana Ross '76 were terrific. It's a shame they never got to The Boss. There were digital-only reissues of Baby It's Me and unreleased stuff from The Wiz but they never finished off the '70s. We did get the excellent 2-CD set from Universal for diana, which included the much-anticipated original CHIC mixes plus a bonus disc of mixes from the late '70s.

R442 anyone could sing this.

Overaged whisper coo.

You just cannot deny the Ross influence.

Ross wore it better. She was quite pretty - fine boned.

I didn't know Hip-O-Select folded. They put out the best reissues for Ross.

I remember reading they were working on the OMPS for "Mahogany" - to be reissued and remastered in the 2010s. The album was going to be re-released as originally intended back in 1975: a mix of instrumentals and Ross' vocals. She had originally recorded "After You", "One Love In My Lifetime", "I Thought It Took A Little Time" and "To Love Again" (both versions) for the album, but Berry Gordy dropped that. Also, "To love Again" was originally planned to be the 'theme song from 'Mahogany', but Gordy then had her record "Do You Know Where You're Going To ?" at the last minute and released that as the 'theme song' - dropping 'To Love Again' (as well as the other vocal recordings) completely off the album.

Diana's RCA deal was for 7 albums in 7 years. But she fell one short. She proposed releasing the Central Park concert as an album, but RCA turned it down. Then she went in and recorded the tribute to Harold Arlen, but RCA didn't want it released.

Red Hot Rhythm and Blues was supposed to her "Broadway Album" only with her paying tribute to R and B singers of the past. That got shot to shit when Diana demanded the song "Dirty Looks" be included on the album because she fell in love with the version that Motown artists Warp 9 released

The red tags are out of control. Someone is going nuts with it. It’s not about actually offensive material or threats, whoever does it now seems to do it based on their personal agenda.

[quote]Red Hot Rhythm and Blues was supposed to her "Broadway Album" only with her paying tribute to R and B singers of the past. That got shot to shit when Diana demanded the song "Dirty Looks" be included on the album because she fell in love with the version that Motown artists Warp 9 released

The album and the concept had so much promise, and turned out to be crap. It was neither 'Red Hot' nor 'R&B'. 'Dirty Looks' sounded like a reject from Janet Jackson's album. And why bother with a whispery, forgettable recording of 'There Goes My Baby' when Donna Summer already had a top 20 with it just three eyars earlier ?

At least the expanded double CD released in 2014 was much better.

80s Diana? Eaten Alive, Chain Reaction and the seriously underrated Mr Lee are the only decent tracks she put out. It wasnt until When You Tell Me That You Love Me that anybody gave a shit and that could have been put out by Celine Dion and got the same traction

She's coasted on her reputation for decades now...

r453 hardly the only one

The red tags are out of control. Someone is going nuts with it. It’s not about actually offensive material or threats, whoever does it now seems to do it based on their personal agenda.

Elon Musk bought this now?

[quote]Eaten Alive, Chain Reaction and the seriously underrated Mr Lee are the only decent tracks she put out.

While I am indeed a Ross fan I'm nowhere near as musically knowlegeable as many of you are here. But, that "Chain Reaction" is one that I don't get nor will I ever get. I never likeed it. However, it's a HUGE hit in the UK! So... what do I know?

[quote]She's coasted on her reputation for decades now...

Say what you want but Ross works as if she has rent to pay! And, maybe she does because she is definitely a spender. It was one of the reasons cited in her divorce from Naess. He couldn't get on board with her spending habits. Ross doesn't just stay in suites (only if they are presidential) but at castles that are fully staffed. One of her famous quotes is; "I'm comfortable with money and money is comfortable with me."

Have you ever really sat down and evaluated her tour schedule? She is on a different stage every 2-3 days with very few days off when on tour. SHE WORKS! That's quite the contrary to many of her contemporaries... Gladys Knight, that cleaning lady woman... Dionne what's-her-name, and especially that heifer that rolls all over the stage kicking off her shoes. Each one of them do 3-4 (and 4 is a strenuous number) of shows per month. WHEW! They done worked, honey... Whereas with Ross... there's 30 days on average in a month? Ross is working 20-25 of those days. Girlfriend lovees her men! She loves George, Abraham, Andrew, Ulysses, and Ben. She is in a different league than those "other" girls. Even Aretha was not on her level re financially.

[quote]'To Love Again'

One of my favorite song by her and "Still Waiting"

r456 chain reaction was fucking huge in the uk (the second biggest hit of the year - the biggest was the Spitting Image Chicken Song ), so much so that a cover by steps went to number one and was the biggest song of that year (they also did a cover of tragedy and made that the biggest song of that year too).

We also had Denise LaSalle singing My Toot Toot as one of the top ten singles of the same year as Chain Reaction, so make of that what you will about our musical tastes

How dawe you diswespect miss woss wike that?

Weally scandawous.

r458 a prostitute once said to me she was so cheap because she didn't have a womb....i said its alright we can do it in the woad

"Whereas with Ross... there's 30 days on average in a month? Ross is working 20-25 of those days. Girlfriend lovees her men! She loves George, Abraham, Andrew, Ulysses, and Ben. She is in a different league than those "other" girls. Even Aretha was not on her level re financially."

Maybe it's because she has bill collectors crawling up her skinny, deadbeat ass wanting to be paid. She blew through the old white dude's money 20 years ago.

r460 I just paid my debts off so i can relax on my royalties from....

[quote][R460] I just paid my debts off so i can relax on my royalties from....

What royalties? That music is still selling?

I also love "Chain Reaction."

Oh, God...

But, I did like the video of the song. I liked knowing the knowledge that the leather skirt she was wearing was one that she wore as a Supreme.

Chain Reaction did well for her in the UK because it was reminiscent of her Supremes days and it was catchy and one of the better Bee Gees songs they gave her. She released Eaten Alive too late. By '85, the Bee Gees as producers were passe. And they didn't give her the best material, although I like Experience and I Love Being in Love With You.

[quote]I just paid my debts off so i can relax

For the most part.

r465 The Disconet and Hot Tracks remixes of Eaten Alive really did well - club play, not chart wise . The video for Chain Reaction helped - we were only just getting into that and it was everywhere, the dress change from white to red is still one I remember nearly 40 years on.

I never liked Eaten Alive (the song). It sounded like jibberish. And considering the pedigree of talent (The Brothers Gibb and Michael Jackson) it wasn't very good.

You could barely understand what they were saying in the song. Berry Gordy always stressed enunciation in singing because he believed the key to a big hit was that people could understand what the singer was saying.

r462 I get .000002 USD everytime Lady Marmalade is played. On My Own is still big in the UK.

r468 it's the remixes that really do it for me with Eaten Alive.

Endless Love was a huge hit with like 13? wks #1 on Billboard.

r471 Much more MY hit than hers

I love Mish Rosh!

She'sh shimply scenshational!

(Sho shorry about the Oshcar, tee hee!!!)

It's too bad that Lionel and Diana didn't really get along in the studio. She said in her book that he was late and she preferred punctuality. Because Lionel could do wonders for her - she is perfect for Endless Love and Missing You. I wonder what an entire Richie-produced Ross album would have sounded like in the '80s. I'm sure Berry/Motown would have disapproved of that.

Bitch wants to apologise to Stephanie Mills

Pattie LaBelle wasn't involved in the writing of either Lady Marmalade nor On My Own. She makes no money off those songs.

[quote]Maybe it's because she has bill collectors crawling up her skinny, deadbeat ass wanting to be paid. She blew through the old white dude's money 20 years ago.

Anything is possible. I don't know. I'm not privy to her finances but I don't think so. I can only recall one story of Ross being sued over non-payment of a bill. I believe it was over the painting linked below. Eventually, she had to pay. Other than that (and keeping household staff) I can't recall any other incident where Ross was accused of not paying her bills. Now Aretha... that was another story. Many of retail department stores (in addition to others) had to threaten and/or actually take her to court to get paid.

I remember when "Take Me Higher" came out in 1995. Ross and Motown promoted the hell out of it, and it was DOA. One reviewer advised her for her next album, "Don't bother wasting time in the recording studio and just send us the photos of your fashion shoot." Ouch !

Is there any worthwhile song in Eaten Alive besides CR ?

Mary Wilson gives you her best Mariah Carey.

"Take Me Higher" sounds more 1992 than 1995.

Take me higher is so generic

^I liked it.

[quote]Mary Wilson gives you her best Mariah Carey.

Geez, that's awful, she's lucky some people actually paid to still come and hear her sing. This woman has no talent and no voice. No wonder Motown used professional backup singers for Diana on the album recordings.

Take Me Higher on Letterman. It's a catchy pop song and Diana did a good job singing it. I like it!

Oops, the link

"If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right" did not come across well live.

Awful.

[quote]"If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right" did not come across well live.

I liked that one too. Beautiful background music while sipping afternoon cocktails on a beautiful day in Miami on the Hyatt Hotel terrace.

After the album flopped in the US, a Motown exec said Ross thought this was going to be as big a seller as 'diana' from 1980, and 'Take Me Higher' would do even better than 'I'm Coming Out'. Boy was she wrong.

Take Me Higher and Every Day is a New Day are strong albums, with Diana updating her sound but the albums still have that classic Ross sound.

I Thought That We Were Still in Love from TMH is one of her best vocals.

R491 = Tracee Ellis Ross

I tell ya what would be good. One might go for it but Ross would fire anyone in her path who even thought of something so ridiculous...

A pairing of Beyonce & Ross (already a problem just over the billing)

However, Ross could surprise. I know I was shocked when she did a joint billing at Radio City Music Hall with Gladys Knight, Chaka Kahn, and Patti LaBelle

R476 the featured album or singles artist still gets paid a royalty whether he/she/they wrote the song or not

Endless Love was the #2 billboard single for 1981. It was #1 for 9 weeks

Bette Davis Eyes by Kim Carnes was the #1 single for 1981 with 9 weeks at #1 but somehow eclipsed Endless Love. Thankfully

R490, a lot of Diana Ross hard core fans thought like Diana that Take Me Higher would be her return to US pop success, but while I like the title song, I thought it sounded a few years out of date back in 1995 and the rest of the songs, while some of them pretty good, were overall not top drawer material. If You're not Gonna Love Me right is perfect example. Decent enough album, nothing to be ashamed of, but not one of her best by any means though a few steps up from some of her 80s albums on RCA.

Nobody from that generation of performers was having big pop hits in the mid-90's. Not Paul McCartney, not the Rolling Stones, not Dylan, not Patti or Gladys or Dionne or Bette or Cher or Tina.

You'd have to have been a special kind of delusional diehard to believe that Diana Ross, who proved herself wholly incapable of making a decent album since 1980, was suddenly going to be rolling in hits with the generic, boring, "Take Me Higher".

She enjoyed a highly respectable 20-year run of hits, but it was long over by 1995.

No shame in that, by the way. 20 years of hits is nothing to sneeze at, and all the god-awful material she put out since then didn't really tarnish what she did in her prime years, because hardly anybody paid attention to her (in the U.S.) after 1984. She might as well not have bothered recording anything.

I must say I loved the Force behind the power album.

She had some good 80s singles:

* Chain Reaction * Swept Away * Mirror Mirror (under rated) * Muscles * Pieces of Ice (if you're a true fan... haha)

The albums started sucking after that. I tried to like Workin Overtime and the later stuff.

But she continued and continues to put on amazing shows. Totally live singing. Band comprised of virtuoso musicians. Amazing energy.

There's a reason she's a living legend and a "Stahhh"

I saw the Take Me Higher tour. Great show.

[quote]Nobody from that generation of performers was having big pop hits in the mid-90's. Not Paul McCartney, not the Rolling Stones, not Dylan, not Patti or Gladys or Dionne or Bette or Cher or Tina.

Streisand did. In 1996 she scored her last top 10 hit on the Hot 100 Billboard Singles Chart with "I Finally Found Someone" - a duet with Bryan Adams. It peaked at # 8.

Streisand needed a duet partner by that time to have a big singles hit. See also "Tell Him" with Celine Dion.

"Tell Him" did not chart on the Hot 100 Singles as it was never released as a single in most of the US (only as a promotional single in some major markets).

Yet Streisand knew what to do when she dueted with Adams in 1996 and with Dion in 1997. She scored a Top 8 single with Adams, and a #1 album in 1997 with the promo single.

[quote]Mirror Mirror (under rated)

Very much underrated indeed. Now, this was Ross vocals that surprised and impressed me!

[quote]But she continued and continues to put on amazing shows. Totally live singing. Band comprised of virtuoso musicians. Amazing energy. There's a reason she's a living legend and a "Stahhh"

Yes, YES!!!

Miss Diana Ross... The Boss!

Not sure why everyone is saying 'Mirror Mirror' was under-rated. It was very popular in 1982 when it was released as a single in America, reaching # 8 on the Hot 100, and #2 on the Soul / R&B chart. So her first two singles for RCA were top 10 hits. It certainly wasn't under-rated.

(The third single - 'Work That Body' - just nocked the Top 40, but that was probably because people were over the 'workout' singles with ONJ's massive hit "Physical".)

BTW - the reason Kim Carnes' "Bette Davis Eyes' knocked 'Endless Love' to #2 for 1981 (even though they both stayed at #1 for nine weeks) is because Carnes single was on the Hot 100 a few weeks longer than Ross / Richie's was. The longer the stay in the Hot 100, the 'more popular' it's considered at the end of the year.

[quote] [R490], a lot of Diana Ross hard core fans thought like Diana that Take Me Higher would be her return to US pop success, but while I like the title song, I thought it sounded a few years out of date back in 1995 and the rest of the songs, while some of them pretty good, were overall not top drawer material.

"Take Me Higher" and "Everyday Is A New Day" were both solid albums but her time had long passed. By then, Whitney, Mariah, Toni Braxton, Deborah Cox and Vanessa Williams were the hitmakers and there was no room for Ross on urban radio playlists.

Holy shit, that Stevie Wonder tribute by Diana was PAINFUL.

What did Stevie ever do to her to deserve so many sour notes?

I bet he wished he were deaf instead of blind that night.

She was always an indifferent singer vocally. Pleasant, somewhat sweet voice with little depth or range. YMMV.

Ross doing Mirror Mirror live on Carson. I guess she was trying to be a rocker chick. Small and compact as it was, she had a hella nice ass!

"Nobody from that generation of performers was having big pop hits in the mid-90's. Not Paul McCartney, not the Rolling Stones, not Dylan, not Patti or Gladys or Dionne or Bette or Cher or Tina."

Excuse me?

[quote] Not sure why everyone is saying 'Mirror Mirror' was under-rated. It was very popular in 1982 when it was released as a single in America, reaching # 8 on the Hot 100, and #2 on the Soul / R&B char

Thta's good to know! But we're saying that because we either forgot about it or never knew about it, depending on age.

The Carson performance is great. She screws up the words, loses her place, but still gives it her all. She's a true "stahhh!"

BTW who is the sexy rhythm guitar player in the Carson clip? He has a Tom Jones/Elvis quality

I wonder who she bitched out after the performance?

"YOU MADE ME FORGET THE WORDS!!! YOU LOVE TO MAKE ME FORGET!! YOU LOVE IT!!!"

You see she took that mic with her when she skipped iff stage. Ever hold one? They're heavy. SOMEbody got fucked up!

"Mirror, Mirror" is a great, funky song that Diana did a pretty poor job of producing, which is probably why it didn't endure in the public's mind.

It's a song that should want to make people get up and dance, but it falls flat in that regard.

As the song's producer, she somehow managed to eliminate most of the funk from one of the funkiest songs she ever did. I think the legendary Miss Ross ego demanded that her vocals be emphasized above all else, when what it really could have used was a more up-front rhythm section.

Not saying she totally destroyed the track...it'd be hard to completely fuck up something that good...but she turned it into "funk lite". It worked for her at the time, and I certainly liked it a lot back then, but there's definitely something missing there, and that's what separates it from "Upside Down" and "The Boss"

"Every Day..." was released later in the UK than the US. The real mistake was that EMI didn't remix the album in light of the more commercial Metro Mix of "Not Over You Yet," which took Diana Ross back into the UK Top 10. Ross' personal issues would still have got in the way of promotion but the album might have been a hit.

[Quote] but she turned it into "funk lite".

And was rewarded with a big pop hit. See also: Madonna's first album.

A big pop hit that the world has totally forgotten, unlike the hits from Madonna's album.

A funk song that nobody wanted to dance to, unlike the hits from Madonna's album.

I liked Take Me Higher and also Not Over You Yet.

[Quote] A funk song that nobody wanted to dance to

What nonsense. It not only went Top 15 on the Dance chart, it zoomed to #2 on the R&B chart. Plenty of people were moving to it.

I love how Diana Ross fucks up this early live performance of the song but saves it at the end by walking off and doing a diva turn to camera towards the end of the song. She is a mistress of the stage.

Diana Ross was nominated for a Grammy yesterday for Best Traditional Pop Album for her Thank You album. She will be up against Norah Jones, Michael Buble, Kelly Clarkson and Pentatronix.

It's rather a silly category as the album is a contemporary one, not "Traditional Pop."

She won’t win.

The new album has been rather a nonevent, which is deserved as it is not good.

Was it categorized as Traditional Pop because it wasn’t marketable as a regular pop album?

😝 forty years? That’s…telling.

Palms were greased I’m sure.

The irony of your comment is that palms were greased back then... And Berry Gordy like to hold on to his $$$$, so no nods for Miss Ross.

[quote]And Berry Gordy like to hold on to his $$$$, so no nods for Miss Ross.

I don't know if that's correct. Berry spent money where and when it was needed. In fact, it's said that one of the reasons that Ross lost the OSCAR for "Lady Sings The Blues" is because Berry was too obvious in paying out money all over Hollywood trying to buy Ross the award.

Yes, and that hamfisted effort shows that Berry was not used to throwing money around in that capacity.

[quote]It worked for her at the time, and I certainly liked it a lot back then, but there's definitely something missing there, and that's what separates it from "Upside Down" and "The Boss"

I disagree that Mirror Mirror not funky....... it's just that the rock guitar is very prominent so she was mixing Funk and Rock which is something Rick James was pioneering at the time (and Prince did more of later). You can hear the funk guitar better in the live Carson performance.

But it's ironic you'd compare it to Upside Down, since Diana is the one who remixed that album because she didn't like Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards (Chic)'s mix, and she with an engineer turned the final versions of Upside Down and I'm Coming Out into the songs we know and love today.

I also wouldn't really call The Boss "funk" it's more disco, albeit "good" disco as it is an Ashford & Simpson song.

Diana made the right choices with the vocal takes she used for the "diana" album.

Oh, the well with my PR and marketing and social media teams. I'll be open here for a moment.

I want to point out that Diane's been arrested twice, once for "extreme DUI" with jail time and once for assaulting an airport security officer. At Heathrow, for fuck's sake. I believe they have sorted out her meds in the intervening years but she NEVER has had that lollipop head screwed on completely straight.

And for the record, this iconic diva of pop, soul, disco and the Beyond was arrested just once, for a teeny little bit of ganja mistakenly left uningested in the limo ride to the airport.

What's this got to do with music? Nothing. But Diane is at the age when she needs to be thinking of heaven, not how to look good. Because that ship sailed and sunk a long time ago.

I don't like this variety I'm trying. Too speedy. I've ordered Damont and Cindi to deep-clean the pad all morning, that's how much energy I've got.

Shit. Dropped a roach. Gotta go.

Flo Screws Up The Classics!

Well...

Burt Bacharach still got paid...

I love this Bacharach anecdote. The Supremes version of a Bacharach song was almost a single but ultimately cancelled. I think it was "What The World Needs Now Is Love."

R538, I’ve read that as well. I like it just fine for a filler track on the Reflections LP, but not as a single. It is truly the epitome of a ‘cover,’ from the performance to the production.

Her Grammy nominated album was so bad I couldn’t listen to it all the way through

I think she recorded her vocals down the phone.

I'd say it's sad but greed is just so greasy. And it shows. And in a fucking bedroom?

Shit.

So her last Grammy nomination was in 1982 for the God-awful single "Muscles", which was written and produced by the then -hot Michael Jackson. It was obviously more of a Grammy nod for him then her.

Does anyone get along with her, besides her kids?

COAT=CUNT OF ALL TIME.

[quote]Does anyone get along with her, besides her kids?

Her bankers.

She used to be very good friends with Cher in the 70s and early 80s. As a matter of fact, she credited Cher with picking out the iconic photograph by Scavullo for her 1980 album cover 'diana' (she had proofs of all the photos he took, and Cher picked out that one - in her natural hair).

Not sure when their friendship cooled, but it did. Some say when Gene Simmons ditched Cher for Ross (or visa versa).

I always thought her first solo album cover was iconic. Harry Langdon had only nice things to say about her.

Sherri REALLY put in the good word for Ross!

Jump right to the 13:00 minute mark.

R550 Diana did get an achievement award by the Grammys in 2012. At least she got that.

I sent an email message to the Grammy committee or whatever it is they call themselves - organization? Anyway, in this message I conveyed her dedication and all of Ross' contributions to the music industry, her length of career and icon status, and her songs themselves. I was polite and respectful - I made sure to set that tone. I'd have to sit down and think about it, but in addition to those others I did, in fact, state the following: "It is a travesty that this woman has not one Grammy award to her credit while others like Britney Spears have several. Honestly, based on this fact alone, I find it hard to take your organization seriously."

Ross received her Lifetime Achievement Grammy on the very next Grammy Awards presentation. True story.

[R551] Unfortunately, Ross' big lifetime achievement award was overshadowed by Whitney Houston's tragic death the night before. No one was paying attention to Ross.

Not only that, but they denied her a segment on the main telecast and opted to give her the Grammy during the bullshit day before dinner where they give out other Grammys for less prestigious categories. You can lead a horse to water....

-R552

Oh well. This is plenty a rewarding award for her...

[quote]Really? Some of that performance is embarrassing. "Maniac"? No, thanks.

Mmph... well, I'm always rather impressed by her dancing abilities. I think that "The Wiz" is an awful film and can't understand why it is now cult status and popular among young people, but I'm transfixed by Ross's dancing capabilities in that film.

The low-class are in their element ever since Smokey Robinson did a recent interview finally confirming that he and Diana Ross fucked--surprise, surprise... (yawn). Catch all of the shade. Start at the 3:50 mark.

They were barely out of their teens. She shoulda known better and I’m sure he knew better, but they kept that secret pretty safe all this time. I don’t think either one identifies as ‘Saint.”

I recently streamed on TV Ross’s first solo Television special from 1971 on ABC, “Diana.” What made her at that time special included how charismatic, well-spoken, sexy, beautiful and light years away from her Supremes years and image she seemed to have become. Because in the ‘60s Motown had molded her to be made up, coiffed, dressed, and stuck with so many showtunes as if she were middle-aged, after 1970 she dressed, looked and acted younger, sexier and cooler than ever before. Now she had the fortune of having proven herself an adult-world talent who was now as a single broadening that appeal to a new younger fans generation. It was a great special and it was a whole new youthful and more vibrant Diana and her evolving ‘70s-era talent to enjoy now.

Diana is treacherous and phony and a narcissist. Plenty of damage done in her wake. If she’s suffering at all in her dotage, it’s well deserved!

[quote]Diana is treacherous and phony and a narcissist. Plenty of damage done in her wake. If she’s suffering at all in her dotage, it’s well deserved!

Oh please... Now, just go and sit your greasy, heifer ass, down somewhere or find some dusty, nasty, stage to roll all over. Oh! You used the word "dotage" and so that can't be you...

DIONNE! Don't You have a room that still needs cleaning???

This kid in the link has just done for Diana Ross what Kim Carnes did for Bette Davis when she sang and recorded "Bette Davis Eyes".

All I can say is how many singers who had a major hit 40 years ago have younger fans into their music ? And more importantly celebrating it like the dude wacking to " I 'm Coming Out"

Ms. Diana Ross is Eternal ...... Ms. Diana Ross is Forever ..........

[quote]All I can say is how many singers who had a major hit 40 years ago have younger fans into their music ? And more importantly celebrating it like the dude wacking to " I 'm Coming Out" Ms. Diana Ross is Eternal ...... Ms. Diana Ross is Forever ..........

I hope that Ross has seen this. Her children and grandchildren are of the ages that they would follow this program and hopefully bring it to her attention. It has definitely gone viral. Even Niles Rogers has made his comments on it via his twitter page which he manages all by himself.

The Supremes were finally recognized with a lifetime achievement Grammy. That ceremony was last night but alas Miss Ross didn't show to accept the award along with the daughters of Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard.

Diana is so extra.

[Quote]but alas Miss Ross didn't show to accept the award along with the daughters of Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard.

Of course, I don't know firsthand, but I'm giving Ross a pass on this one. I don't feel as if it was a slight against The Supremes at all but more than likely it was allowing an opportunity for Florence and that bitch (sorry) witch Mary to shine. The daughters want to keep their respective moms' legacies the public's memory and maybe want those legacies to grow. By Ross making an appearance would have been all about Diana Ross or the last surviving Supreme, etc. She doesn't need the publicity as much Florence Ballard and that bitch (sorry) that witch does.

[quote] All I can say is how many singers who had a major hit 40 years ago have younger fans into their music ? And more importantly celebrating it like the dude wacking to " I 'm Coming Out"

Barbra Streisand, Olivia Newton-John, Dolly Parton and Donna Summer - for starters. Younger people are still into their music, grabbing their catalog from 40 years ago (and even earlier - young Streisand fans are still buying her music from 60 years ago).

Listening to Swept Away. Great '80s album. Robby Benson even co-wrote a track!