HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, 10/16/22: "The Green Council"

"The Green Council" heavily implies that the council is successfully dominated by Hightowers and that Rhenaerya (sp) and Damon are on the OUTS

Well, at the end of the last episode Rhaenyra and Daemon and all their children from their blended family were on their way to Dragonstone, and the Hightowers (including Alicent and her children and her father) were still at King's Landing, where Viserys just died in the middle of the night.

There do not seem to be many people left in the Red Keep to speak the next morning for Rhaenyra's claims to the Iron Throne.

Why would R and D even leave for Dragonstone when Viserys was so obviously on the precipice?

Alicent is kind of coming across as an idiot so far.

Alicent is naive. Rhaenys pretty had her down tonight when she said, "You don't want to escape. You just want a window to your cell."

Well so far Aegon is implied to be a pedophile and Alicent is indulging foot fetishes for political favours. I said the other week they were making it very hard to root for the Greens but this really dialled it up to 11.

Does the actor who plays Aemond suffer from prognosthism? His jaw is so long and curved.

The interior of the Dragonpit is really cool. They clearly modeled its design after the interior of the Haghia Sophia in Istanbul.

Wow 😮

Finale next week???? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!’

They changed a lot from the book: it takes a full week for the Greens to install Aegon as king (as Viserys rots in the palace and they hide the truth all the time from the people), and there's no incredibly dramatic escape of Rhaenys from the Dragonpit at the coronation. In the book, she's already home safe on Driftmark.

Fuck Rhaenyra and Aegon, Team Rhaenys

I think that was my least favourite episode of the season. The ascension council thing was a let down ( The old guys death was hilarious though), half of the Red keep very loudly secretly searching for Aegon went on too long, he's even more of a degenerate with no real development past that, and via various contrivances the Red Keep is Westeros's most easily escapable fortress.

Aegon looks like Evan Peters

Thought he looked more like Sebastian Stan myself R14

I can see both he definitely looks more like Evan when he's at his most pale and miserable

[quote] and via various contrivances the Red Keep is Westeros's most easily escapable fortress.

That's always been true, going back to the previous series. The Red Keep is very porous, and you can get in and out if you know the secret ways through it (remember Tyrion Lannister's escape from it after he murdered his father).

[quote] half of the Red keep very loudly secretly searching for Aegon went on too long, he's even more of a degenerate with no real development past that,

Keep watching.

What knight was helping Rheanys escape and who was the person hanging in the courtyard as he ushered her out? My guess the hangee was that nobleman Otto caught trying to escape, but my screen was so dark.

Is the rapist prince married to his own sister?

[quote] What knight was helping Rheanys escape and who was the person hanging in the courtyard as he ushered her out?

That was Ser Erryk Cargyll, the twin of Ser Arryk Cargyrll--they are both members of the Kingsguard (and modeled on Balin and Balan, the twin knights who are parts of King Arthur's Round Table from Tennyson's "Idylls of the King") . They were sent to find Aegon, but Erryk was disgusted by Aegon's depravity, and so decided to defect to the aide of the Blacks.

[quote] My guess the hangee was that nobleman Otto caught trying to escape, but my screen was so dark.

It was. We thought at first he was going to escape to warn Rhaenyra at Dragonstone, but it clearly didn't happen in time.

That was a boss move by Rheanys, but it was kind of lame she didn't taken care of business at that moment. I understand that the show needs drama, but....

[quote] Is the rapist prince married to his own sister?

Yes--Prince Aegon (now king Aegon II) is married to his younger spooky sister Helaena.

r17 That's true to be fair but I was talking more about the lack of guards on people like Rhaenys, and the lord who was able to ask for the gate to be opened and nearly got away r18 I'd finished when writing that. If you mean the character development that he was able to act kingly when he heard the cheers it doesn't really ring true to me. I'd rather they'd shortened the actual hunting scene and given us more of him with his brother and mother or hell even his children just to develop him more.

[quote] That was a boss move by Rheanys, but it was kind of lame she didn't taken care of business at that moment.

She could have taken all the Blacks out in an instant if she had said "Dracarys" to her dragon. But in the "Inside the Episode" feature, the showrunners said she respects Alicent too much as a mother to have personally killed her with all the others.

It was a very cool moment with Rhaenys at the end, but also dumb. She was in a position to wipe out the entire opposition and prevent the war that is going to break out. To me it makes her look weak that she didn't have the resolve to follow through.

[quote] [R17] That's true to be fair but I was talking more about the lack of guards on people like Rhaenys,

She was secreted out incognito by Ser Erryk, who as a member of the Kingsguard all the other guards have to obey. hhe was able to use that authority to get to her chambers, and his knowledge of the Red Keep.

[quote]and the lord who was able to ask for the gate to be opened and nearly got away

But he didn't get away. He was caught and hanged.

[quote] But in the "Inside the Episode" feature, the showrunners said she respects Alicent too much as a mother to have personally killed her with all the others.

But that pretty much means she killed about a hundred peasants just to look cool

[quote] To me it makes her look weak that she didn't have the resolve to follow through.

Maybe she is weaker than a monarch would need to be, which is why she didn't mind as much as her husband did when Viserys was chosen instead of her.

She had to have her dragon crash through the floor to escape King's Landing with her life (and warn Rhaenyra and the Blacks so they are not murdered in an ambush). However, at the last minute she decided not to kill Alicent along with the other Greens, and that probably was a stupid move. But it was the move she chose, right or wrong.

Rhaenyra sparing the Greens is just another example of the poor decision making that plagues almost all of the characters on the show. No one sane would think that’s the right thing to do, and having the showrunners say that she did it because she “respects Alicent as a mother” just confirms that.

It's a show invented scene. In the book Rhaenys isn't even in King's Landing when Viserys does.

Alicent is not only Rhaenys's relative, but had been her (fully legitimate) Queen for the last two decades.

I expect we'll hear more about Rhaenys's decision not to kill her in the next episode--she'll have to explain her decision to Rhaenyra.

R32, Alicent is a traitor at this point, though.

Rhaenyra in that position wouldn't have done it either r32. Now Daemon on the other hand...

[quote] [R32], Alicent is a traitor at this point, though.

She doesn't believe she is. She believes she's doing what her husband wanted with his dying breath.

We all talked last week about how without the knowledge of Aegon I's prophecy (which Viserys only told to Rhaenyra and not to her), she could have misconstrued Viserys's words easily to think he actually wanted her son Aegon on the throne instead of Rhaenyra--which is exactly what happened.

I think Alicent deep down knows Viserys didn't want Aegon to succeed him. The scene in the carriage between Alicent and Aegon, where Aegon pretty much tells her she's a fool to believe it, lays that all out.

In all honesty they'd have been better having her just believe Aegons claim as first born son is stronger. Its a medieval society its a reasonable belief. They could still separate her from Otto's more ruthless coup by having her favour diplomacy or something if they want her to be sympathetic.

Deep down, that may be true, r36.

But we also found out a few episodes back (in her agonized discussion with the young Aegon) Alicent genuinely fears she and all three of her children will be assassinated quickly by the Blacks if Rhaenyra takes the throne, because they're a threat to Rhaenyra's legitimacy. So she is likely coming to believe her story about what Viserys said to be the truth out of desperation and terror.

Aegon be like...

One thing I didn't fully catch until I watched it a second time is that the building the City Watch set on fire was Miserya's (aka the White Worm's) house. If she survived, she's going to be really furious with Ser Otto Hightower for directly lying to her.

I also caught on the second viewing that Alicent realized that Larys Strong, with his clubfoot, would have a foot fetish, which is why she takes off her stockings with him and stretches out her feet when they're together--I didn't get that fully the first time through. Larys could not be any creepier, but this does make Alicent much creepier that she would play to his fetish.

I think what won over Rhaenys from not killing the Greens on the dais was Alicent standing pathetically in front of Aegon in order to protect him. Rhaenys has lost both her children (she does not realize Laenor actually emigrated from Westeros and was not killed), and so she responded in the moment to Alicent's deep protective love for her awful child. But she'll come to see this was a huge mistake.

It will be interesting to see next season whether the showrunner (there will be just one because Miguel Sapochik is leaving) will respond to the criticisms about the first season and explain things more clearly. I think the biggest problem this season, that many people are pointing out here, is that too many of the actions the characters take seem illogical because they're not explained clearly enough on the show. Sometimes they need more exposition, and sometimes they just need to take more beats so things can sink in with the audience better (like why Rhaenys did not scorch all the Greens where they stood). Exposition has always been the problem with this series, with its enormous backstories and complex motivations, and it took the SNL parody for the show runners of GoT to realize the "sexposition" they used for the first season of the first series was not the answer.

Was that fire caused by Larys to kill Daemon's whore

It seems like Helaena has weird prophetic powers. This episode she told her mother out of nowhere, "There is a beast beneath the boards," which predicted Rhaenys's draon rising out fo the floor of the dargonpit. She had said propehtic things in earlier episodes when she was younger, too.

I loved that her embroidery in her scene with her mother and children was of a spider.

[quote]I also caught on the second viewing that Alicent realized that Larys Strong, with his clubfoot, would have a foot fetish, which is why she takes off her stockings with him and stretches out her feet when they're together--I didn't get that fully the first time through. Larys could not be any creepier, but this does make Alicent much creepier that she would play to his fetish.

I don't think him having a clubbed foot has anything to do with it. I think that's just his creepy personality. Even if he was able-bodied, that foot fetish would be a thing.

I also got from that scene a different interpretation. Considering how casually Alicent just started removing her shoes and then her stockings as he divulged more information, I got the impression that this was just "their thing." She lets him indulge in his foot fetish in exchange for information. The way it was done made it very obvious that wasn't the first time, but "their normal." This pretty much proves Rhaenys right regarding her speech to Alicent; she's basically a slave to men in a gilded cage and merely looking for "a window."

White Worm's a weird character I'm not sure what to make of. She's a foreign born pimp/ spy master who apparently sought out Aegon told him his dad was dead, took a bribe to hide him, then went to a man in a rush to clear up loose ends and secure the succession and extracted a promise to ban the kid fighting ring and gentrify the slums or something that she cares about for reasons and actually believed it would be followed through on. Unless I missed something that's a really dumb plan.

This is no GoT. If I need Cliff Notes afterward to decipher every episode, that means it’s not very good. Oh I was supposed to know the twin brother was hanging? Silly me!

No, it's absolutely NO patch on GOT 1-5/6.

BUT. Its trying to win back lost fandom ground from GOT's disastrous final two seasons - and I think it's making some SOLID headway in that general direction, r45.

[quote] Oh I was supposed to know the twin brother was hanging? Silly me!

That was not the twin brother. That was the last nobleman to bend the knee to Ser Otto when he announced Aegon was the new king. he was trying to sneak out of the Red Keep, but Larys's spies caught him before he got out and they hanged him.

I agree they've done a confusing job clarifying the White Worm's motivations.

She's (among other things) a brothel madam and information broker who lives in the city, and she wants the child fighting ring banned. but since Daemon left her and ended up in King's Landing, she's trying to get what she wants through the Hightowers, and they've now not only broken their word to her but burned down her brothel.

They're setting things up for what she will do in the future (since those actions are not otherwise given much clear motivation in the book), but it's been very clunky and confusing.

It's odd because I feel the series has RACED along its timeline, making it relatively satisfying watching..

....but I also feel it's slow, and I can't truly pinpoint why.

FEET!

They really should have given Princess R. some other reason than a "mother's love" to not execute the traitors. If this was a suburban family dramedy about a single mom raising her autistic child while trying to keep the lights on? Cool. Then she can make a decision based on feelings. I would love that.

But this is Game of Thrones. Kill those assholes!

Didn't even recognize Luke and Elliot Tittensor at first.

Not only is this cast ugly, they all smell

R52 I find them ugly hot.

How can anyone find Olivia Cooke ugly?

R45 Yes this is not GoT (first season) I agree everything feels rushed with the time jump and very little character development that explains their actions, what bothers me the most to me is the decision of Viserys of naming Rhaenyra his heir but doing nothing to protect her claim.

But GoT first seasons were not a walk on the park either. They were more characters withdifferent histories all over the world and able to traveling to the other side on different scenes.

I had to watch a YouTube channel after the episodes to understand where was everyone and how they were connected. On later seasons became easier of course when I was more familiarized with the history and because most the characters were dead.

Ironically, given what the country is going through now, House of the Dragon doesn’t deal with why lines of succession and orderly transitions of power are important: chaos is bad for everyone, it destroys even the wealthy, it makes you vulnerable to your enemies. That’s why Alicent’s subjective belief that what she is doing is right is irrelevant. What she’s doing is stupid, she’s inviting war and chaos, anyone could see that. And that’s why Rhaenys should have scorched them all on the spot: if this was a real country, there would be way too much at stake to indulge nonsense.

They should have just had her escape quietly. I was actually liking the coronation scene but they had to end it on a dumb action moment where you have to accept an elderly women was able to sneak past guards when it had been specifically said they knew the dragon pit was where she would be going, steal her dragon, don armour and then act like a fucking retard and then not fix the entire thing immediately because "it's not her war" even though the next episode preview has her literally joining the war on Rhaenyas side.

r51 and r58 nailed it. Thread closed.

It was shocking but pointless, like when Criston killed the gay at the wedding.

[quote] They really should have given Princess R. some other reason than a "mother's love" to not execute the traitors.

They may yet. It's not been explained. We just saw her making the decision; we have not heard why she made it.

While I agree with many of you that the show often leaves things underexplained, in this case people are right now just being impatient.

This is what the showrunner said on the Inside the Episode r61, that's where people are getting it from.

It just frustrates me because it is this huge consequential scene that wasn't from the book, which I'm okay with the show doing its own thing but it makes Rhaenys partially guilty for everything that is going to transpire because she could have stopped it then. Not a big fan.

[quote] This is what the showrunner said on the Inside the Episode r61, that's where people are getting it from.

But that may not be all of the reason why.

Also, isn't it a point of drama in general that people make tragic mistakes and have to deal with the consequences? There have been all kinds of terrible mistakes people have made since the beginning on this show. Rhaenyra should not have allowed herself to be married Laenor knowing he was gay, and then should not have had children through Ser Harwin Strong when everyone would know they were bastards. Viserys should have been a better father to his children with Alicent and explained his plans to her and to them more thoroughly. Alicent should have had Larys exiled from court when she discovered he had killed his brother and father (she would not have had to give a reason since she is the king and he is only a minor functionary as Lord Confessor).

This isn't just a video game where everyone has to make the optimum choices all the time. Life isn't like that--people make stupid mistakes.

R63, yes. Drama is about characters making poor decisions. But if we like the character, we want those poor decisions to be TOUGH ones. As of now, there is no reason, given all Princess R knows, to keep the traitors alive. None. She's too worldly, too wise, to be that naive.

As written, it makes zero sense - on any level - for her to make the decision she made. She wasn't naive to what her decision would mean. She wasn't tortured into her decision. She wasn't put in a Sophie's Choice scenario. If it turned out Olivia was her daughter? Or secretly in love with her son? Or something else like that? Well, that might change things.

But as shown it was doing everything but pull the trigger. In the biggest moment of the entire show so far. Just a strange choice for me.

R58 Is 50 yo considered elderly?

How did Rhaenys unchained her dragon all by herself? The knight that helped her escape said she shouldn't go get her dragon, cause that's what they are expecting her to do and that the dragon is guarded. And if the dragon destroyed the ceiling/floors with his back and neck, she would be crushed by a ton of rocks.

Casting for this show is terrible. Alicent looks the same age as her children. In fact, Olivia Cooke is only 1 year older than the actor that plays her oldest son and 3 years older than the younger one. The actress that plays her daughter looks even older than her. And Ser Criston Cole didn't aged a day in, what, 20 years? So stupid. They should have at least given him some grey hair.

The actor that plays Criston Cole is 28. She should have been played by an 8 year old in the first episode.

Daemon also hasn't aged at all. By the end Viserys looked like he could be his grandfather. And yes, I realize Viserys was dying, but still.

For me Criston Cole is especially glaring since Fabian is a bit baby faced. They could easily have done something to make him look older and more mature.

I agree they should have aged Christan Cole.

What was that conversation between Otto and Alicent about? He said: "well played" and then "a charming contest, the prize, a pouch of silver".

They were both trying be the one to get to Aegon first, and Alicent won that contest and secured him. Otto wanted to tell Aegon that he needed to be forceful and order Rhaenyra's assassination while Alicent wanted to get to them and tell him needes to be merciful and send peace terms.

In the books, Aegon is not found in the Sept (and I'm not sure which Sept this even is, since the city's previous one was destroyed to build the Dragonpit, and the great Sept of Baelor has not been built yet). There are differing sources quoted in the book that say either he was found in the arms of a whore in the Street of Silk or that he was found watching the child-fights in Flea Bottom.

R73 Okay, what about the "pouch of silver" thing? It has nothing to do with the madame asking him for money in exchange for the information about Aegon's whereabouts?

r67 Something about Olivia Cooke reminds me of Leighton Meester. Is it just me?

They're on the same order.

They do look alike. But Cooke is a much better actor.

r65 In the context of a vaguely 11th century based society? Yeah. She should be picking out her coffin and gazing sadly out of windows while coughing blood into a lace handkerchief.

The Tittensor twins were quite the chav-y twinks back in the day. I think one of them played Carl in the UK Shameless.

It's a metaphor r75, he was telling Alicent she treats this as a game instead of how serious what they are doing is. When he was lambasting her for not having the guts to realize people have to be killed.

SPOILERS

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From the look of the preview, we can expect that much of the episode will be at Storm's End, the extremely large and impregnable castle of the Baratheon family we never saw during the whole run of Game of Thrones, but which was referred to many times. (It was the castle King Robert gave to his younger brother Renly, and it's much bigger than Dragonstone, which he gave to Stannis, annoying his elder brother no end.)

Expect lots of dragons next episode, including some we've not even seen yet.

I thought for a second Aegon’s one eyed brother was going to kill him and claim the throne for himself

I don't know if its because I just expect incest at this point but I was half concerned that between the tickle fight and how close they were getting they were going to make out

At least it was a fabulous exit.

In the last episode Rhaenyra said she was going to take her children home and then ride back to visit Alicent on her dragon. Viserys died that night, after their dinner. So where is Rhaenyra, shouldn't she be back in the town?

That actress that plays older Rhaenyra looks really gay in real life, but has a bf and the actress that plays young Alicent looks quite straight, but has a gf.

I don’t like the older Rhaenyra. But love the younger Australian actress, Milly Alcock.

I wish they had allowed Milly Alcock to grow into the role because I too liked her more as Rhaenyra. (The same as I liked Ty Tennant as Aegon.) The time jumping and the fast moving narrative while using completely different actors for important characters doesn’t make watching this an engrossing endeavor.

It’s like you have picked your favorite and then they switched actress on you

R85, I would imagine it takes several days or weeks even to go by boat back to DragonStone.

Dragonstone is close to King's Landing in terms of Westeros geography so not that long, but considering this is before a engine or even a steam boat it is going to take a sail boat 2-3 days I'd guess to make the trip to Dragonstone. When you are flying on a dragon you can make it in like half a day based on what has been written.

But yeah, Rhaenyra would still have been in transit since it was maybe 30 hours til Aegon was crowned.

It’s like Rhaenyra had a change in ‘personality’ when the second actress took over.

Or she changed over 10 to 15 years. I know I act very different from 10 years ago. Not like my personality is completely different but definitely not the same.

The scene with the children fighting was very disturbing and the shot of that little boy cowering in the corner terrified was haunting.

I agree Rhaenys not killing the traitors just didn't make sense. Why even bother to crash the crowning ceremony? Why not just get the fuck out of King's Landing?

I could maybe see her thinking if she killed Aegon it might turn the nobility against Rhaenyra's cause. But if she wiped out the Hightowers and Aegon and Aemond, I think Rhaenyra would be rid of those leading the plot against her and she'd be the sole rightful heir. But as an above poster noted, even real history is replete with bad decisions.

It was kind of cool seeing Rhaenys on Meleys, though, scaring the shit out of the traitors.

How long will it take for the three dragon eggs to hatch? The ones Daemon found an episode or two ago.

Dragons are mystical beings so they don't really follow normal biology. What they have been doing is keeping a dragon egg stored and then placing it in the cradle of a newborn Targaryen and it hatches at some point. Sometimes the eggs never hatch. And Daenerys eggs were around 180 years old and finally hatched with her.

But dragons need riders. Right now Daemon, Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra's sons already have dragons to ride.

Rhaena and Baela need dragons, do they not?

R98 one of them already has a dragon

R34 the biggest issue with hess/other HOTD writers/producers showing us a “different side” of daemon (ie. a more unlikeable) is that we already know daemon isn’t a good person. he’s a murderer! he’s a war criminal! but he’s a bad person who’s fiercely loyal to his family and his loved ones and if you take that away from him then he’s going to go from “morally corrupt person with redeeming traits” to “morally bankrupt person with no redeeming traits” which will, like, entirely spoil the point of his character & everything that’s enjoyable about watching him. i don’t understand why, as a show runner, you would do everything in your power to ruin a fan favourite character but my god is it Stupid City

I wonder if aside from the 'motherly respect' rationale, if the Princess Rhena sparing them could be skinned into an example of 'You'd all be dead if not for my mercy' kind of a move, that'll be fall to deaf ears later.

R101 Skinned = spun-

I was looking up Aegon on the ASOIF wiki and apparently Cole is the one who crowned him in the book he then jumped on his dragon Sunfyre which is meant to be the most beautiful dragon that ever lived and does a victory lap of the city. Which sounds much better than what the show did.

Showrunners: 'We're going to completely fuck the story-line of your book, like the other guys did, but sooner."

"Executive Producer", rotund H.R.R. Martin: "Wheee!"

(flies away on a giant paycheck shaped like a magic carpet.)

Those who have dragons right now on the show:

Rhaenys (Meleys)

Daemon (Caraxes)

Rhaenyra (Syrax)

Jacaerys, or Jace (Vermax)

Lucerys, or Luke (Arrax)

Aegon II (Sunfyre)

Aemond (Vhagar)

Baela Velaryon (Moondancer)

Those who had dragons but who died or disappeared

Laenor Velaryon (Seasmoke; Laenor disappeared and did not seem to take his dragon with him, so we have no idea yet what happened to Seasmoke)

Viserys (Belarion, which died of old age years before he became king)

Laena Velaryon (Vhagar, now ridden by Aemond)

Helaena also had a dragon in the book at this point in her life named Dreamfyre, but we yet to hear of this dragon on the show.

At this point, given the current make-up of the Greens and the Blacks, here's the distribution of the dragons:

BELONGING TO THE GREENS (Alicent's and Aegon's side): Sunfyre, Vhagar, and likely Dreamfyre.

BELONGING TO THE BLACKS (Rhaenyra's side): Meleys, Caraxes, Syrax, Vermax, Arrax, Moondancer

Keep in mind, though, that Vhagar is by far the largest and more powerful dragon living.

Theoretically anyone with Targaryen blood (even if just their grandparent or great-grandparent was Targayen) should be able to bond with a dragon. At this point that means Rhaenyra's one remaining son with Ser Harwin strong, Joffrey Velaryon, should be able to bond with one, as should Rhaenyra's two children with Daemon: Aegon the younger and Viserys the younger. Rhaena Targaryen, Baela's twin, should also be able to claim a dragon. Helaena's three children also should theoretically be able to bond with dragons.

Looks like someone saw the leaked finale.

I only realized it leaked because shipping fangirls on twitter went into a meltdown and gt the name trending. The final 2 episodes are going to be controversial if nothing else.

R105

I realized it leaked when it was reported in the news. Interesting choice...

I watched the leaked episode and it was by far the best of the series.