Star Trek: Picard - The Final Season

Niles the butle?

Who is that woman firing on Picard?

Where is Denise Crosby?

It’s Amanda Plummer, that’s all I can tell you.

Final season? Didn't this show just debut last year or something? Did it get cancelled?

I couldn't get through the first episode of season one, and I was a fan of Next Generation.

R5 Exactly fan service bollocks. Will stick to TNG, thanks.

r4 It premiered in 2020 and was explicitly planned for only three seasons from the start. This is now the third and final season, which airs in February. So, one season per year.

The second season was so shit, I don't think I'll be tuning into this one. TNG was always my least favourite Trek, anyway. I'm just glad Mulgrew stayed away and decided to take part in the much more delightful Prodigy instead.

This is probably what amounts to final closure for characters like Beverly Crusher, Worf, Geordi LaForge, Lore, and Moriarty. We probably will not see them again, at least not in live action.

I'll look at it.

R8 we got final closure with All Good Things. And the crap movies. No need for this fan service, badly written shite.

Since you haven't seen it, R9, isn't that a bit premature?

R10 I have seen the first two shit house seasons, love.

R11: What was wrong with 'em?

(If you say 'woke' anything, you get any and all access to Star Trek, period, revoked.)

The first two seasons didn't have any of the characters I mentioned, now did they?

The first two seasons were shit. Do I believe suddenly the third season will be good? No fucking way.

[quote]R13: The first two seasons were shit.

In what way?

C'mon. Be specific.

This will either be a shitshow or brilliant - no middle ground.

In line with the standard Trek motto "The needs of the many" and all it's reversals, it's always struck me that Picard et al. have done a lot of things that may have been the "best" for the most people and in line with the Federation's ideals, but often at a huge cost to individuals who would rightly seek revenge against them.

If this show is about consequences and their years of decisions coming home to roost, it could be fantastic thematically. Amanda Plummer (shout out to her late father, General Chang) does unhinged well, so potentially great casting in what could turn into a legendary Trek villain in her hands.

On the plus side: Odyssey Class Enterprise F looks gorgeous. I hope it's not some awful fan service and they use it well by giving it the role it deserves.

Final note: there is already massive talk that Deanna dies in this. They've stated numerous times at least one of them won't survive. Now, if it's Spiner's Lore that would a huge cop-out, as all the numerous iterations of the Soong character detracts from Data's death (the death he got at the end of S1 was beautifully done and what the character deserved).

[quote]This is probably what amounts to final closure for characters like Beverly Crusher, Worf, Geordi LaForge, Lore, and Moriarty. We probably will not see them again, at least not in live action.

Oh, forgot to add that at the NYC Comic Con panel, there were hints of a TNG movie.

Also, Frakes retweeted something and questioned the idea of this being the "final" voyage.

R16, well, Frakes lives on in 'Lower Decks' through occasional guest appearances.

Also, there have been rumors for months that Picard has a son in this. People have been suggesting that Beverly is the mother (which I don't buy).

However, it's interesting to note that Thomas Dekker, the guy who played Picard's Nexus son from Generation, is in this. I think he's the guy Worf is talking to at 1:22 in the trailer when he says "I used to be like her, full of rage and anger" (or some such.

I still think it's Beverly who is going to die, not Deanna, since she's been saying that this is by far the best storyline her character has ever had.

They better not off Troi. Especially if they are doing a feature film.

I could see Stewart asking Picard to be killed off. And the film could continue with Riker and Seven leading the crew.

While I like Gates, I don't think she's a great actress. That said, after basically being stuck with a series of extended cameos in the movies, it's about time she actual get something fun to do.

[quote]I could see Stewart asking Picard to be killed off. And the film could continue with Riker and Seven leading the crew.

He already "died" at the end of the first season before getting a synth body. It would be ridiculous to kill him again. He's already "died" so many times that doing it again wouldn't have the impact that anyone would want. Also, Stewart is the one who made the comment about being open to doing movies.

[quote]While I like Gates, I don't think she's a great actress. That said, after basically being stuck with a series of extended cameos in the movies, it's about time she actual get something fun to do.

Yeah, her best featured episode was Suspicions s6e22 where she had to figure out who killed the Ferengi scientist. It was a meh episode, but she never really decent stories. The one where she and Picard were linked (Attached, s7e08) was solid, as well, but wasn't Crusher focused.

That said, you'd think a mother would be a bit more concerned about her son vanishing into the ether to be a Traveler.

[quote]R21: Yeah, her best featured episode was Suspicions s6e22 where she had to figure out who killed the Ferengi scientist.

'Remember Me' (s4e05) was pretty good. There's also 'The Host' (s4e23), 'The High Ground' (s3e12), and 'Sub Rosa' (s7e14) about the Crusher family incubus, as far as Beverly-centric episodes go.

I love the sex ghost one. It's so unbelievably stupid especially with groundskeeper Willie chewing the scenery in between Gates horning it up with the candle guy.

And it's fucking stolen from Anne Rice!

To the point that between its initial airing and now, an additional credit was sneaked in, which a lot of people assumed was them crediting (and paying) Anne under a pseudonym.

Ah, Remember Me was a decent episode.

I found both The Host and High Ground to be lackluster, even for Crusher episodes. Sub Rosa was silly.

R24, there's an amusing and informative discussion of 'Sub Rosa' here (especially in the comments):

[quote][R24], there's an amusing and informative discussion of 'Sub Rosa' here (especially in the comments):

[quote]3. The only biological constant across 28 generations of genetic recombination would be the mitochondria, which are passed down the female line. That means the Howard sons would be compatible hosts too. I wonder if there were tales of Howard men who lived solitary unmarried lives, and I wonder if Ronin can change shape.

Thinking like a true Trekkie DLer.

I must be the only person who liked season 2.

R27, maybe Ronin wouldn't need to change shape. Imagine: "Wesley lights a candle, next week on 'Star Trek The Next Generation.'"

[quote]R28: I must be the only person who liked season 2.

I don't think TNG had necessarily found its footing yet, but I don't despise Season 2. I could put up with Dr Pulaski.

R29, I meant of Picard.

Does Spiner have some dirt on all the executives or something? I was fine with Data. And then there was Lore. And then there were all the Soongs. He needs to be gone for good. I mean, we can't miss you if you never leave, Brent.

Maybe Brent Spiner is one of the producers of 'Picard,' and too essential to refuse to cast.

They'll run out of Soongs eventually.

Ah, but then there are the Stavos Kenicliuses, one through five...

I liked Picard s.2.

The Borg Queen rocked it.

Sir Patrick has had a wonderful career, but he is an 82 year old man and there have been moments in which I felt he was no longer 100% at the top of his game. He was wise IMO to make a limited 3 year series commitment.

R20 Gates is a solid stage actress whose acting techniques doesn't translate as well on film for some reason. That being said, she really was never given much to do.

R28 I liked season 2 but I do recognize it was something of a mess as the overarching story sort of fell apart after a couple episodes.

R18 If you watch the panel, most of the cast including: Gates, Marina, Jonathan, and Patrick said they wanted to do more. Michael Dorn and Brent Spiner were very quiet during this. Lore will likely die and I think Worf is the most likely to die.

[quote]I must be the only person who liked season 2.

You're not.

[quote]Lore will likely die and I think Worf is the most likely to die.

Lore being the one who dies would be a huge cop-out, not that that means anything for them, as there is currently a living soon on the synth planet for Spiner to play.

What I would have wanted was a sequel series with Seven in the Fenris Rangers, not in Starfleet. THAT would allow them a grittier option without the huge criticism that Roddenberry had intended Trek to show a more hopeful future (a very common criticism of all the current Treks). Also, it will bug me that they don't resolve the Jurati/Borg Queen guarding the transwarp conduit - which they obviously aren't planning to do since she's not in this season.

It's interesting that they've noted that Riker and Picard will be in conflict and Geordi also seems to be a bit pissed with Picard ("you've roped them into this"). It's playing out a little like the future in All Good Things...

Apparently, Ronnie Cox is reprising an Admiral Jellico in Prodigy in the upcoming release. I'm liking the animated stuff - Lower Decks is really nailing it.

"Descent" was another great Beverly Crusher episode, in its own way.

While everyone else was wandering around the Southern California planet looking for Data (who the hell decided that was a wise use of personnel?) Dr. Crusher is left commanding a small crew of teenagers aboard the Enterprise, and she has to use her scientific training to defeat a weird Borg ship.

This is a good trailer, and I'm curious to see how the season plays out. Bringing back Moriarty and Lore is an interesting twist. The Enterprise F looks beautiful.

But the first two seasons are kind of clunky, so I'm keeping my expectations in check. Season one was unsatisfying, and two had its moments, but turned into a mess in the end.

One thing to keep in mind about season 3 is that it has a different showrunner and production team than seasons 1 and 2.

Season One was headed by Michael Chabon. Season Two was Akiva Goldsman. Season Three is Terry Matalas.

Chabon is a brilliant novelist but Picard was his first attempt at television and it shows. Goldsman is a terrible writer and I don't understand why he is still working frankly. Matalas is a huge Trek fan and started his career on DS9 and Voyager. He also has a solid TV track record. People who have seen parts of season 3 are saying it feels like a different show. I'm hoping it'll be good. I know just seeing the TNG gang back will make me love it.

[quote]I legitimately thought Daniel Davis was dead.

I legitimately thought he was British.

In many ways, I didn't need to see the TNG crew back.

Nepenthe was just the right amount of TNG required. It was overkill in having Riker arrive with the copy-paste fleet, especially without the Enterprise E. On the one hand, using Enterprise E would have been going way to far into fan service. On the other hand, the entire sequences was a tepid attempt at creating emotional resonance through fan service, rather than well-constructed character development and plot. (Let's not even get into the fact that the Zhat Vash were and may still be, in fact, correct about the danger of AI).

I wasn't looking for "the continuing adventures" of the TNG crew. The original premise of season 1 was good, but poorly executed with very poor attention to plot details. Season 2 was essentially TNG Tapestry done over a season long arc with a lot of filler. The final reveal that Jurati was the Borg Queen from the beginning was not setup well, not to mention that the show, once again, violates it's own rules on temporal mechanics.

Also, getting rid of Santiago Cabrera was a bad choice. He would have been a great sequel series co-lead.

Just random speculation on my part: I don't think Moriarty will have a major role this season, rather, I think he'll just be in one episode. In previous interviews, Terry Matalas made reference to a one episode appearance by a former TNG guest star that they had to fly in and since Daniel Davis lives in New York it's likely him...many fans thought it might be Ro. Speaking of Davis, is he gay in real life?

Also, I'm going to say that Lore will turn out not to be a villain this season. Spiner played the villain last season so I can't see them having him do that two seasons in a row. About Lore's appearance, in several episodes of TNG it was referenced that Data had an aging subroutine where he could change his appearance which I think was intended to future proof Data for the movies as Brent aged but the writers (and Spiner) seemed to forget about that during the movies era.

R41 I agree that they shouldn't have gotten rid of Santiago Cabrera because he's the best eye candy Trek has had in ages and he also happens to be a good actor. That being said, even when it was announced, I thought ST: Picard was a needless series. Patrick Stewart is a great actor and Picard is arguably the best captain in the franchise, but there really wasn't a need to revisit the character and IMHO Picard doesn't work as well as a character without the rest of the TNG ensemble. Plunking a legacy character into a spin-off with all new characters who don't have an established chemistry never works regardless of the genre. These types of spin-offs just never live up to expectations & they also disappoint fans. What I mean by that is that after a series ends, every fan has their own idea of what might have happened to the characters (e.g. in many fans minds, Picard likely married Beverly and he remained in Starfleet for years).

Season 3 is probably going to shape to be what they just should've done from the get go...a limited series featuring the TNG cast going on one last mission together.

The cast addresses the fans, cut with clips from NYCC. There's a bit from the Q&A part of the show's panel where a woman gets choked up talking about being able to see them back together.

It clearly hits the cast hard. Marina ran out into the audience and hugged her.

[quote]It clearly hits the cast hard. Marina ran out into the audience and hugged her.

This is why fans love her...

I kind of enjoyed S2 of Picard so I’m really looking forward to this next season. I’m hoping it’s Troi that dies. I want them to cut away to her mother when she hears (or even Betazoid ‘senses’) the news so we can see Lwaxana lose her shit and over-act to the hilt.

[quote]I kind of enjoyed S2 of Picard so I’m really looking forward to this next season. I’m hoping it’s Troi that dies. I want them to cut away to her mother when she hears (or even Betazoid ‘senses’) the news so we can see Lwaxana lose her shit and over-act to the hilt.

Well, since Majel Barrett is dead, you won't get to see Lwaxana in anything anymore.

Marina has announced her retirement from acting, so that's the main reason why many are speculating it's her. If she doesn't want to act, I'd still enjoy her doing Deana voiceovers in animated series like Lower Decks or Prodigy.

The biggest problems with Disco and Picard, and even SNW to a lesser extent although they're focused on single episodes, rather than season long arcs, is that the writers are not that good. We aren't getting the cohesive and coherent story, like The Mandalorian.

I'd love a huge crossover event if it were well-done, like you can see they're building toward with Mando, Ahsoka, and Boba Fett series.

People LOVE the idea of a live action Ezra Bridger. Prodigy is fairly well-regarded (most people seem to think the animated series are better than the current live action, except for SNW). If they played this right, a live action version of the kids from Prodigy, like Dal, would be well-received. He's be about 20 years older than he is in the animated series in the current Picard timeline.

[quote]Marina has announced her retirement from acting, so that's the main reason why many are speculating it's her.

Awww, I wanted her to get the chance to be on Doctor Who like she really wanted.

Considering how much undeserved hatred was spewed at TNG by overgrown man-baby TOS purists before TNG even debuted, I imagine all the well deserved love and respect they now receive does hit hard.

I finally watched TOS two years ago, and I have fallen in love with all but Shatner (of course) with Uhura, Chapel, and Rand being personal favorites. But there is something undeniably special about TNG. I dearly love them as you would close friends.

I've really enjoyed the previous two seasons of "Picard". Were they perfect? No. But they were entertaining and brought me back to Trek after being forced to distance myself from it for too long. For that, I'm grateful.

SNW needs to do an episode where the Enterprise visits a world where all the inhabitants are completely nude.

Pike and Spock must beam down and mingle among the citizens.

R46 when did Marina announce her retirement?

My guess is that Gates/Crusher is the one who dies. The fact that she’s suddenly getting a significant role is very suspicious. Would they want to kill Riker’s wife after already killing his child (offscreen)? Although, a dead Troi would echo her being dead in the alternate timeline in All Good Things.

Marina has not announced her retirement, where is this coming from?

I hadn't heard of Marina retiring either, but judging by the released footage, there is something in the way Deanna is being presented which leads me to believe she is the one who dies.

Her death in "All Good Things" was a reference to the mid-90's novel "Imzadi". In it, Admiral Riker travels to the planet of The Guardian from the TOS episode "City on the Edge of Forever". His intent was to go back in time and fix the timeline and prevent Deanna from dieing. Eerily enough, Lwaxanna is dead in the novel as well.

With Frakes's Twitter post referring to this maybe not actually being the last adventure for the TNG crew, maybe that's the direction they are headed. Deanna dies in S3, then one last movie to bring her back so the TNG crew can have their final shot on the bridge as the TOS crew did in "The Undiscovered Country". One last happy and hopeful goodbye.

Most of the Trek youtube channels doing a deep dive into the trailer and discussing who might die in Picard S3 have stated she announced that she intended to retire from acting.

It seems kind of obvious that they are setting all of this up as Picard's final farewell. If someone else dies, it will seem very strange.

[quote]It seems kind of obvious that they are setting all of this up as Picard's final farewell. If someone else dies, it will seem very strange.

He already "died" at the end of the first season.

Also, HE is the one who brought up doing more stuff, like a movie, in the future.

R55, hence my saying "final farewell". And, of course he's not going to say, "Well, maybe for all of them but I'm kicking it in season 3, so..."

I hope they bring on Neelix for a special guest Voyager crossover appearance and he does horribly in a transporter accident.

*dies, not does

Kes, you damn hag, put down the pipe before posting!

[quote]Janeway, who is done with your nonsense

Actually, one of the reasons that Mulgrew is purported to have been so nasty to Jeri Ryan was that she objected to dumping Kes.

What happened to Jonathan Frakes? He used to be so muscular and strong.

R60 It is true Mulgrew was furious with how Jennifer Lien (Kes) was fired from the show, but her issues with Ryan largely stemmed from the fact Ryan (though no fault of her own) started getting most of the publicity for the show. Mulgrew felt that here she was the first female captain and the producers had resorted to the old T&A method of trying to boost the ratings. There is a story that when Mulgrew first saw Ryan in that silver cat suit, she flipped her lid that she walked out of a photo shoot.

As for Lien's firing, more information about it has come out in recent years and will be covered in the upcoming documentary. Lien had a drug problem and refused to get help for it. It started impacting her work and during the third season many of her scenes had to be cut. Even before the decision to add 7 of 9 to the cast was on the horizon, producers were going to let either Lien or Garrett Wang go.

I wish they had gotten rid of Wang. He was the worst. I would have liked to see Kes lead Seven through her growing humanity along with Janeway.

R63 I agree. I think Jennifer Lien was a better actor than Wang and the character of Kes had more potential.

[quote]R61: What happened to Jonathan Frakes? He used to be so muscular and strong.

Thirty-plus years passed. He's 70 years old now.

Almost time...

My friend sent me a message earlier saying critics viewed the first 6 episodes and it is supposedly bad.

But everyone shit all over the first two seasons and I enjoyed it, so this will probably be the same.

R66 Actually about 90% of the reviews out today have been positive. There have only been two terrible reviews (by critics who hate modern Trek anyways).

parmountplus wants it to continue. I think they are moving to films.

They need to do a Seven spin-off with the Fenris Rangers. Maybe a prequel of the years between Voyager and Picard.

I hate almost all things new Star Trek: Discovery, Picard, Strange New Worlds, the various crap films of recent years... a critic I like and respect said that they were all developed by people who fundamentally hated Star Trek.

BUT... the early reviews of critics that share this sentiment, and mine, who have seen this show in early release, have been very enthusiastic and full of praise. So, after having dismissed Star Trek entirely.... I'm warily looking forward to the debut of Picard 3

Patrick Stewart and Jon Frakes have both said, very publicly, they want to do FILMS.

Basically most of the reviewers who've seen the first six episodes are saying that Picard season 3 is almost an entirely new show with only a few references back to seasons 1 and 2 (Raffi being the only "surviving" original Picard character). It's sound more and more like this final season of Picard is what the show should've been from day one.

I miss Elnor

Denise Crosby bitching she wasn't invited to the Picard premiere. Honestly, I've always found Crosby a bit annoying. She chose to leave the show and has spent the last 30 years trying to clue herself to the franchise but is too proud to admit walking away from the show was a mistake.

The 3rd season is getting RAVE reviews from the more objective Trek review youtube channels - the ones that have been critical of both the previous seasons and the other Trek shows.

I have to admit that I am getting a bit more excited since it sounds like it may not be awful.

DC played a Romulan in the same series.

R75 I know I'm probably going to love it regardless of the quality because I've wanted the TNG cast to get on last round together since Nemesis.

R74 Crosby always comes off as a bit bitter tbh. She left the show wanting to do movies and her career never really took off & TNG turned out to be a hit and it's still paying dividends for the cast that stayed for the full run.

I liked Picard’s second season but goddamn have they fucked up a great villain in the Borg. Voyager should have been prohibited from using them.

Excellent episode.

Wesley has a hot brother.

I'll miss Laris.

I'm just glad they gave Laris more than a "Note: Poochie died."

The music was just outstanding throughout the episode. The use of the First Contact theme caught in my throat.

So is Raffi in Starfleet or not?

Season 1 showed she was kicked out for drugs and conspiracy theories then (inexplicably) she's back in for Season 2.

Now she's doing her own thing and apparently the conspiracies were true???

I miss Elnor's hot ass.

She’s working for Starfleet intelligence in some capacity, at least.

The episode reminded me how great Jeri looked in those few Voyager episodes where she got to wear the regular uniform.

They at least want us to think that Ed Speleers is Picard’s son, because otherwise why have him use a British accent.

I heard some spec about who the bad guys are, which kind of tracks with something in the episode.

The Enterprise-C connection?

Yah. There are rumors that despite her snubbing at the premiere that Denise will be showing up later. Also the Rachel Garrett statue seemed to be queuing something, plus the bag guys’ ship looked more than a little like the Narada.

[quote]Now she's doing her own thing and apparently the conspiracies were true???

Yes - the conspiracy regarding the AI turned out to be true, as shown in season 1. The Romulan Zhat Vash had hacked the AIs on Mars to attack on the relocation fleet. She was a former intelligence officer, returned to Starfleet in season 2. Seemingly sent on a mission in season 3.

[quote]Also the Rachel Garrett statue seemed to be queuing something, plus the bag guys’ ship looked more than a little like the Narada.

Agreed. They're foreshadowing something by using Rachel Garret and a ship that looks to have the same design queues as Narada.

The first episode was so good. I'm more excited about this season than either season 1 or 2. It's hitting the right nostalgia/fan service balance without just trotting it out as a crutch. I'm really liking the 7 story line that seems to be evolving and love-to-hate Captain Shaw - same asshole vibe as Jellico when he arrived.

Music throughout was excellent. Love that they used First Contact's music - one of my favorites.

Is Amanda Plummer going to be Garrett's daughter? Or possibly Yar's?

I thought it was reported awhile back that Crosby was participating in this season, which they are still keeping leaks pretty tight.

It was also said more TNG era guest stars would be popping up and general consensus seems to be Ezri Dax (connection to Worf) and the EMH (connection to 7 as well as the Moriarty hologram returning).

Did Riker hint that all wasn't bliss in the Riker-Troi home?

[quote]Did Riker hint that all wasn't bliss in the Riker-Troi home?

He definitely hinted at something - he said with an unhappy tone that Deana and Kestra would be glad he's gone for a while.

[quote]It was also said more TNG era guest stars would be popping up

There's a reason why Rafi's Starfleet Intelligence handler is not being shown. I'm betting and hoping it's somene interesting.

[quote]Is Amanda Plummer going to be Garrett's daughter? Or possibly Yar's?

No Yar's - Yar's daughter is Sela. A daughter of Garrett would be possible. In 2344, Garrett's Enterprise C left its timeline and ended up in 2366 where she died before reentering the rift. So, a daughter would have to have been born before 2344 which would make her around Riker's age (born 2335). Season 2 was in 2401.

I'm hoping one of the channels like Trek Central does a breakdown of the end credits. There is a lot of stuff there that goes by quickly, but definitely had some meaning to the show and season.

The first thing that jumped out at me was the reference to a 10 Forward holodeck program with the safeties off. It made me question if all of this was a simulation of some kind.

[quote]The first thing that jumped out at me was the reference to a 10 Forward holodeck program with the safeties off. It made me question if all of this was a simulation of some kind.

While I think it's just foreshadowing of Moriarity's return, wouldn't it be a trip if in the end of Ship in a Bottle, Moriarity had pulled a reverse Uno on them and, rather than his being trapped in a holodeck simulation that made him believe that he had left the holodeck, he had trapped them in one.

Side note: Ed Speleers looks like a grown up version of "Thomas Picard" from Picard's Nexus family in Generations.

Seeing all the crew from TNG made my heart melt. It brings back memories of better times and a hopeful future. I actually started watching TNG a year after it ended. One of the local channels would show it late at night Monday thru Friday. The first episode I watched was "Darmok" and I was hooked. My fave of all the Star Trek franchise.

I guess the show runner Terry Matalas got mad about people asking him if Troi was the one going to die on twitter and posted flat out last week that we don't lose her. Then two days ago, he responded to another tweet about Troi and Riker and said everything with them will be fine, so she's for sure not dying and I doubt he is either.

Whatever Troi-River drama there is seems to just be an excuse for where she is because Sirtis couldn't film the first two months or so they were shooting.

My guess is Crusher or Lore turns into a good guy and sacrifices himself. Or the dying talk is all a fake out.

R87 Raffi's handler is Worf given that the messages she received were translated from Klingon.

R92 Stewart spoiled something in his interviews for this season....basically my money is on all the TNG leads making it out of the season alive.

press on this, the view

After watching that reunion at R94, I just have to say I love everything Trek. Even at its worst, it's better than 90% of everything else out there. There's always hope in it. That's why it lasts.

Did anybody else wortch the season premiere last night? I miss the Picard theme song and his pet dog. It woulda been a kind touch to dedicate the season to their last season guest star whom died earlier this month (Borg Queen).

I'm signing up for paramount plus in March so I'll be on track starting with episode 3.

[quote]It woulda been a kind touch to dedicate the season to their last season guest star whom died earlier this month (Borg Queen).

Were you high at the time? They did dedicate the episode to her.

[quote][R92] Stewart spoiled something in his interviews for this season....basically my money is on all the TNG leads making it out of the season alive.

Well, except for Brent Spiner because they will probably kill Lore. I can't wait to hear why an android has aged. I can see why Moriarity aged, even if he's a hologram - the program would have taken the passage of time into account and aged the character.

They've mentioned multiple times that, while it's unlikely that they'd do another big reunion movie with all of them, some combination of them (and new characters) is not out of the question if this season of Picard does well and fans show support. Now, whether Stewart and the others are just saying that to get people to watch this season - who knows. However, I wouldn't mind seeing future shows the mix casts from all the shows and new characters as they move into the 25th century. I wouldn't mind seeing a movie - although I think a streaming movie is more likely than a theatrical release which I'm fine with.

The people running Lower Decks and Prodigy have proven they know what they're doing, albeit in different ways. Matalas is off to a very good start. If he finishes strong, I would be excited for more. What I wouldn't mind seeing would be a new Trek show where each new season mixes up Trek casts and new characters into a one season show of 10 episodes, so there isn't the race to cram in cameos.

The premiere episode was really good. Nice mix of references to past episodes and laying enough groundwork for the rest of the season. I couldn't help but smile at Picard referring to Riker as "Number One" and Riker calling him "Captain" by accident. I'm surprised Riker didn't make admiral.

My only complaint is I wish the bridge of the Titan wasn't so dark and cold looking. That seems par for the course with New Trek. I miss the warm, hotel lobby-esque bridge of the Enterprise-D. Still, the Titan is a beautiful ship.

I still giggle when I remember how Jean Simmons, on her episode of "Next Generation" as a Joe McCarthy-type Star Fleet power, called the captain

Pee-Card.

Over and over.

I agree Remember Me was Crusher's best episode. It's kind of a stupid story (a pocket universe forms around her thanks to another one of Wesley's physics experiments, and everyone keeps vanishing from it), but she gets to deliver that lovely little speech (which she actually delivers absolutely beautifully) about why the vanished and forgotten people should matter and be remembered.

It's sad how in almost every episode which centered upon her, she was in the end let down by bad writing. "Remember Me" is like a terrible Gothic romance, and the one with the Trill falling in love with her has the homophobic ending.

Before all the "girl power" crap started, one of my favorites episodes from the animated series was The Lorelei Signal where all the men become incapacitated and Uhura takes command with the help of Nurse Chapel.

I always wanted a buddy adventure with Troi and Beverly where they kick some ass so we could see more of their characters.

R103, girl power crap? Go watch a different show.

Not a total expert when it comes to Star Trek (therefore pretty much all inside trivia goes unnoticed by me), but I do like the first episode from the third season. LOL'd when Todd Stashwick's Captain Shaw was a total dick to Picard and Riker during their dinner conversation. Very nice set-up for the season overall.

R90 The actor who played Thomas Picard appears to be guest starring in Picard season 3.

I loved the first episode last night. I just wish we could do away with Rafi as the actress is not attractive and actually looks like a junkie. Seven of Nine can do better. In fact, Seven is the best part of Picard. She should get her own show.

R99 I actually think Lore will turn out to be a good guy by the end of the season , but yeah if any of the TNG cast have their character killed off it will be Spiner.

R100 I think Riker never made admiral because he retired from active service (along with Deanna) to move to Nepenthe to take care of their dying son. While Riker was seen captaining a ship at the end of S1 of Picard, it's unclear if he actually returned to active service following those events.

R103 I really do hope Bev and Deanna has some scenes together this season. The rumor is that Troi doesn't actually appear until episode 5 or 6. Allegedly due the fact she lives in the UK and because of some COVID restrictions, Marina shot all her scenes towards the end of the filming schedule in early 2022.

R107 Matalas has strongly hinted that he wants to do a spin-off featuring the Titan that probably would have Seven in command.

[quote]Matalas has strongly hinted that he wants to do a spin-off featuring the Titan that probably would have Seven in command.

Well the sets have already been built and all...

Throw in some familiar faces and go for it...

I want at least some Janeway on any Seven in command spinoff!

Me too, r110!

My guess is Picard will die. It will be heroic, of course. The scene with Laris at the start of the episode last night hinted that it might be him that dies. Laris just had a look of knowing when she said, "You have to go."

I don't know. I think the show will pull a Lord of the Rings and will end with Picard writing his memoirs (like Frodo did in the movie series). Picard died more often than Xena the Warrior Princess. That would be a great end for an epic character who doesn't write it to establish his legacy, but to write about the friends he met on his epic journey(s).

I presume the nasty Captain of the new ship will die in episode 2 and Seven will assume command.

It's funny how Stewart really hams it up with his acting whereas he was much more restrained in the old series.

It's like he thinks he's on stage at The Old Vic and has to shout his lines to be heard up in the bleachers at the back of the theatre.

A great first episode. Special effects have come long way since TNG (plus so has the tv I watch it on).

How on earth did the Titan look worse than Discovery in its inaugural season? Looked like an anime at times, it definitely needed another pass in the studio that does the CG rendering.

Aside from that, the season opener was probably my favourite out of all Picard episodes. It was just competently made, which can't be said for the train wreck that were the previous two seasons. Although the actress playing Raffi still gets saddled with some of the worst lines currently on TV.

[quote]How on earth did the Titan look worse than Discovery in its inaugural season? Looked like an anime at times, it definitely needed another pass in the studio that does the CG rendering.

I don't know why they felt the need to introduce yet another ship that isn't even really a "new" ship. They should have just gone with the hero ship from last season, the Stargazer-A.

With Seven, I'd rather she go back to the Fenris Rangers for a series. Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant in 2378. Picard is set in 2502. Had they let her join starfleet when Voyager returned, she'd have risen through the ranks and would be a captain now. But, joining now, she's just too old for this shit, as it were. It makes sense she'd try if given the opportunity, but the time for Starfleet for Seven has passed, I think. Apparently, that is the story arc this season for Seven, trying to figure out whether she belongs in Starfleet.

[quote]I want at least some Janeway on any Seven in command spinoff!

As much as I love me some Janeway, after all the crap Mulgrew put Jeri Ryan through on Voyager, I'd rather Ryan get right of first refusal on working with Mulgrew again. I'd love to see Seven and Janeway, but after hearing about all the crap, that has been confirmed numerous times by other cast members, Voyager scenes with Janeway and Seven play differently now - I wonder what Mulgrew is doing when the camera is not on her when she shares a scene with Ryan since the stories of her pulling crap off-camera during scenes are legion.

If Prodigy is all we get of Janeway for now, I'm good with it. Can you imagine that we wouldn't have Seven if Ryan had decided she didn't want to take Mulgrew's bullshit and quit.

Matalas has said that PRODIGY pretty much has a lock on Janeway & Chakotay so they won't be showing up on other Trek shows.

[quote]Picard is set in 2502.

Oops - Picard is set in 2402.

A Q is going to take Picard away with him.

[quote]Matalas has said that PRODIGY pretty much has a lock on Janeway & Chakotay so they won't be showing up on other Trek shows.

Which is a bit strange since Prodigy takes place in 2384 - most most 20 years before Picard Season 3.

I suppose it makes some sense since we don't know whether Chakotay survived the events of Prodigy - Janeway does because Seven just said that Picard and Janeway convinced her to join starfleet. So, there's no reason we couldn't see Janeway.

I will say that including a holo training program Janeway in Prodigy was a brilliant way to have the character return throughout the first season of that show.

Geordi is a commodore running the fleet museum? Seems like a waste although he might still might have a bit of PTSD after Mars.

[quote][R100] I think Riker never made admiral because he retired from active service (along with Deanna) to move to Nepenthe to take care of their dying son. While Riker was seen captaining a ship at the end of S1 of Picard, it's unclear if he actually returned to active service following those events.

Riker was on active reserve while on Nepenthe. I wonder whether he and Deanna left the Luna class Titan when it was decommissioned or whether Shaw had become captain of that Titan with his command transferred to the Titan-A, as Picard did with Enterprise D and E.

Picard was Chancellor running Starfleet Academy in Season 2? He had quit prior to the events of Season 1, but I thought he had returned after the Zhat Vash/AI conspiracy was made public, which makes Capt. Shaw's comment about him being a retired admiral odd - I guess he had quit to go with Laris which was why he was packing up Chateau Picard. Sort of crappy timing to have given up his commission - being an admiral would have been handy.

Mulgrew and Ryan definitely seem to have buried the hatchet and made amends. Mulgrew is a big enough woman to admit she was acting out of jealousy and didn't realize Ryan was so miserable in that damn catsuit (She now has back problems from having to stand so rigidly.) Ryan has also been wonderful and mature enough to admit some of her part was youthful arrogance and wanting to take her pain and discomfort out on someone. They've been seen at conventions sitting next to each other, holding hands and laughing. Either it's a hell of an act or it's real. I hope it's real because I love both ladies and the characters they play. It would hurt my heart if they hated each other. I know- MARY! Didn't Ryan have a breast cancer scare (again from the fucking Seven costume!) and Mulgrew helped her through it?

I blame Braga anyway. Weren't he and Ryan fucking back then? Isn't that how she got the part? Of course he would write scripts heavily featuring his steady piece of pussy. I've never cared for him. He's one of those lazy writers who unnecessarily kills off characters just to deliver a gut punch, as he did hot ass Trip on "Enterprise".

R111 They already killed Picard in season 1 so I don't think they'll do it again. Also given how vocal Stewart has been about perhaps doing more Trek, I think Picard will make it. As for the Laris scene, yes she was acknowledging that Picard might not make it back given the apparent danger Beverly is in, BUT I also think it's an acknowledgement that Picard might not come back to HER...basically, it was Laris' exit from the series as it's believed Orla Brady doesn't appear in any more episodes. Beverly is/was the love of Picard's life and Jack is likely his son, and so I think the series will end with an open ending as to whether Picard/Crusher give it another go, or if Picard does go back to Laris.

R115 The CGI is one thing that really annoys me about modern Trek. I swear Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise's ship CGI looks more realistic. It probably has to do with resources though. The FX industry is resourced maxed these days (the demand exceeds the number of artists available). This is something Matalas actually talked about in an interview with Trekmovie a few months ago. So I suspect that have to pick moments where some quality is scarified in order to make other parts look better. The nebula scene at the end of the episode is amazing.

R120 Yeah the whole retired Admiral thing is odd. Although this inspection is just lie to get to Beverly, if Picard was on an inspection wouldn't that mean he's technically still a serving Admiral....it's odd.

As for Jeri Ryan and Kate Mulgrew, yes the two have buried the hatchet and seem to get on fairly well now. I think if Seven were to get her own series, it's certain Janeway would appear at some point.

I was surprised how cartoony the the titan ship visual looked when it exited the space station.

I love Laris.

Probably the best new Trek character in ages.

how does paramount plus work? I have to get it.

[quote] I blame Braga anyway. Weren't he and Ryan fucking back then? Isn't that how she got the part? Of course he would write scripts heavily featuring his steady piece of pussy. I've never cared for him. He's one of those lazy writers who unnecessarily kills off characters just to deliver a gut punch, as he did hot ass Trip on "Enterprise".

Braga is a huge hack, and he's also a dick. He used to love to brag whenever he was interviewed about Star Trek while he was writing for it about how much pussy he had just scored recently.

One episode down, 9 to go.

I'm loving it so far, and all the reviewers on YouTube that I trust and who, like me, have hated all the latest incarnations of Star Trek, both on TV and in film, and who have seen the whole season, say it's wonderful and totally nails the landing.

Also, wow, Gates McFadden had some great plastic surgery done. Crazy.

You pay the subscription fee and you can access the channel.

I haven't started watching it yet. I want to wait until all episodes drop. Plus I just got a new TV so looking forward to seeing it on my new bedroom screen in the comfort of my bed.

I heard the spoiler that the Enterprise is being decommissioned. It was a moment for me, it felt like I am being decommissioned. My licence plate reads AWAY TEAM so I'm an entrenched freak,no doubt.

This series taught me so much about how to be, in working and personal life. I'm 49 now and feeling the weight of this show's ending and the characters I love so much. It's always been so much more than a TV show to me.

[quote]I heard the spoiler that the Enterprise is being decommissioned.

It's the never before seen Enterprise F, an Odyssey Class starship, that is being decommissioned. Apparently, the ship was badly damaged. What worries me is that they're going to create a new Enterprise G for any future incarcations. The Oddyssey Class is a gorgeous ship. It's a pity that it won't be used much.

I want to know what happened to the beautiful Sovereign Class Enterprise E. I think it's my favorite Enterprise, except maybe for the Motion Picture ToS Enterprise refit.

[quote]an entrenched freak

r129 I like that, I'm stealing it. And yeah, I can only imagine what it must feel like for hardcore TNG fans right now. I was always more of a Voyager guy and I have a permagrin watching Janeway on Prodigy.

And that was me when Lower Decks went to Deep Space Nine.

R130 In the crew and ship logs posted by Paramount+, the Enterprise-E's fate is classified. I suspect we'll learn what happened to it at some point this season.

[quote]And that was me when Lower Decks went to Deep Space Nine.

...when Ransom needed to stall for time, so ordered the helm to "just keep circling" around the pylons with the music swelling in the background.

Question: Anyone have any idea where to find the bar glasses they used?

First episode was decent. Even if there are some plot holes. How did Seven suddenly become not only a Starfleet officer but has risen through the ranks to become first officer already? Wouldn’t that take a couple of decades rather than the year or two that most likely separates this season from the last. Speaking of which, I’m still put off by the incoherent and nonsensical second season but definitely more optimistic.

Saw Sir Patrick on Colbert last week. Picard isn't the only one approaching his final season. I was very surprised over how frail Stewart appeared.

[quote]How did Seven suddenly become not only a Starfleet officer but has risen through the ranks to become first officer already? Wouldn’t that take a couple of decades rather than the year or two that most likely separates this season from the last.

At the end of season 2, since the captain of the the Stargazer-A, Chris Rios, stayed in the past. With the Borg Queen taking control of the entire fleet, Admiral Picard gave Seven a field commission to Captain of the Stargazer.

Admiral Hanson gave Riker a field commission and promoted him to captain in the Best of Both Worlds after Picard was captured. Riker chose to resume his rank of commander once Picard returned (note: Riker had been offered the captaincy of the Melbourne which he hadn't officially declined).

[quote]These types of promotions were done without the approval of the organization's central authority, but by commanding officers who operated outside communication with authority. For example, Captain Kathryn Janeway, after having "invited" Chakotay and the other Maquis to become part of the crew of USS Voyager, with Chakotay serving as first officer in 2371, she granted Tom Paris a field commission of lieutenant and an assignment at the conn. (VOY: "Caretaker").

Seven served for 4+ years under now Admiral Janeway.

While she wasn't going to retain the rank of captain, a step down to commander doesn't seem that unlikely in-universe.

Whether such things would happen in real life in a modern military organization - doubtful.

Thanks R138 ! I’d forgotten how the last season ended. Maybe because none of it made a whit of sense to me. By the time Wesley Crusher randomly showed up I’m convinced the writers were smoking crack. That’s a whole other topic though.

You're really surprised that an 82 year old seems frail?

Shatner is still pretty together and he'll be 92 next month!!!

I'm guessing the aliens who attacked Crusher are holograms -it's why she didn't hesitate to vaporize them. Trust no one probably means Starfleet is being replaced with sentient holograms.

[quote]I'm guessing the aliens who attacked Crusher are holograms - it's why she didn't hesitate to vaporize them.

Holograms wouldn't have left the ash residue that Riker and Picard found. Also, if they were sentient, it would be LITERAL VIOLENCE anyway if she killed them.

[quote]Trust no one probably means Starfleet is being replaced with sentient holograms.

I can't decide whether I would like or dislike it if we saw a return of the parasites from the TNG episode Conspiracy, as some people have theorized, which ended with a signal sent to an unknown part of space. I mean, if they brought back Bruce Maddox in season 1, it may not be so implausible to revisit another hanging story line.

They’ve missed a trick not getting Shatner to appear in one of these many spin-offs. Dude won’t be here forever and to many, along with Leonard Nimoy, he IS Star Trek. Obviously Kirk died in that crappy GENERATIONS film, but they could take a leaf from the Dr Who anniversary episode several years back where they cast Tom Baker as a mysterious art curator.

[quote]They’ve missed a trick not getting Shatner to appear in one of these many spin-offs.

Yeah, they're running out of time. It's just Shatner and George Takei left. They really need to do something with Takei, as well.

[quote] They really need to do something with Takei, as well.

Takei made a voice over appearance in Star Trek: Below Decks.

"Holograms wouldn't have left the ash residue that Riker and Picard found."

But the ash was different.

[quote]Takei made a voice over appearance in Star Trek: Below Decks.

Yeah, I guess it's better than nothing.

If nothing else, it would have been nice to see him, like they did with James Cromwell's Cochrane in Enterprise, giving a pre-recorded speech. He could have been giving a speech on Founder's Day. I mean 20 seconds is not too much to ask.

They're all getting up there in age. Frakes and Dorn are both 70. McFadden is 73. Burton is the spring chicken at 66. Sirtis is 67.

[quote]Yeah, they're running out of time. It's just Shatner and George Takei left.

Gee, thanks.

I actually thought Koenig had died - I'm glad I was wrong.

Funny. Chekov (newly minted ensign vs. seasoned Lt.) was supposed to be much younger than Sulu, but Koenig is actually older than Takei.

R150 Koenig is still alive though I think he has officially retired from the convention circuit & isn't in the best of shape. It's going to be a battle royale between Shatner and Takei as to who is the last original cast member standing.

Koenig is appearing at various Galaxycon conventions including one next month.

Galaxycon Richmond

[Quote] Admiral, we have found the nuclear wessel.

I don't know how I feel about the whole "Jack is Picard's son" thing, but I appreciate that they didn't beat around the bush with it.

Amanda Plummer is a great villain.

Another great episode.

Gates tweeted that episode 3 is a real whopper so I can barely wait for next week.

Agreed. Amanda Plummer is very good. There was something about the way she was saying "Jean Luc Picard" in the trailers that I found offputting. Her speech about shrikes was excellent. It reminded me of the random digressions in Moby Dick which I associate with Khan without actually referencing (yet again) him directly. It's the type of thinking and thoughtful villains I like.

As for Jack being Picard's son. While I prefer that to the other main theory - that he's a clone of Wesley's father that Beverly is raising as her son - I'm not a fan.

Notice that Beverly doesn't actually come out and say it. I wonder whether this is a misdirect. I'm hoping there is a lot more to it than Beverly was pregnant and cut everyone off so Picard wouldn't know he had a son. There are a few folks now saying that the reason she vanished in TNG Season 2 (other than replacing the actress) was that Beverly was pregnant and spent the year at Starfleet medical to hide it - although that would mean literally hundreds of people would know she had a baby, but no one ever bothered to ask about it.

Side note: it would have been fun to have holo-doctors standard on ships, so have Robert Picardo do a quick quest spot although not as Voyager's sentient EMH. Side side note - when the Federation outlawed AI, I wonder what happened to the EMH.

I wish they'd have Pulaski back, even if just a quick scene to make amends between her and all the shit she went through that one year.

Great action scenes in this episode. I see fans bitching about the oversaturated space scenes, but I much prefer that to the anime Titan. The Guardians of the Galaxy opening was kinda jarring, glad it didn't overstay its welcome.

The actress playing Raffi again stuck with an impossible task -- emotionally breaking down while having a dialogue with text on a monitor. Give her a break already, jeesh.

Seven's boss is a jerk, but he has beautiful eyes.

[quote]The actress playing Raffi again stuck with an impossible task -- emotionally breaking down while having a dialogue with text on a monitor. Give her a break already, jeesh.

Yes, the scene with her ex-husband where she has to choose between her son and meeting the Ferengi was excellent. You could see the exact moment in her eyes when she chose.

[quote]Seven's boss is a jerk, but he has beautiful eyes.

Yeah, Todd Stashwick is more handsome as an older guy than when he was younger as Talok on Enterprise, a deep cover Romulan pretending to be a Vulcan with T'Pol.

One thing that is starting to bug me is that people are suggesting that Jack Crusher's English accent is a "clue" to his being Picard's son - you know, as if accents had a genetic component.

Ok I'm totally in love with Amanda Plummer!!

Yes, the look is too oversaturated. Looks too cartoony.

She's definitely channeling her father's performance as General Chang. It makes me happy that she's following in his footsteps as the last TNG villain as he was the last TOS one.

Jack Crusher sounds more Australian than English to me R160

I agree, r164. That's not an English accent.

I loved Todd Stashwick on the 12 Monkeys TV series. Nice to see him here. He's a fun actor to watch.

[quote]Jack Crusher sounds more Australian than English to me [R160]

The actor is English. He's using his normal speaking accent, as seen in other shows like Downton Abbey.

The episode went by way too quickly. Loved the return of Worf.

[quote]The episode went by way too quickly. Loved the return of Worf.

While I liked Worf's actual returning scene, it has two specific story issues: 1) Last we saw Worf, he had accepted a position with Martok, as an ambassador. It seems like going from diplomacy to Starfleet Intelligence is a bit odd; 2) Being a spy doesn't sound "honorable" for a warrior.

R161 Omg Amanda Plummer is going to be a villain I love to hate.

R168 I'm sure we'll find out why Worf's life has changed so much, just like we'll find out why Beverly kept Picard from knowing he has a son. Terry Matalas has hinted that Worf's new job has to do with the fallout from the Dominion War.

[quote]1) Last we saw Worf, he had accepted a position with Martok, as an ambassador. It seems like going from diplomacy to Starfleet Intelligence is a bit odd

No, the absolute last time we saw Worf, he was back in his uniform on the bridge of the Enteprise-E during Nemesis.

Who is the saboteur?

Nevermind....

They're baaaaccccckkkkk.....

I just binged watched and liked season one a lot. I didn't watch season two because I read unfavorable reviews here and I wanted to skip ahead to see Dr. Crusher because I always liked her a lot.

The only thing that takes some mental asjustment to me is the ongoing serial drama versus the self-contained episodic nature of the original series, but I like the approach. It's not better, but it lends a different quality to the characters.

So far, the only thing I don't like is Amanda Plummer's villain. She's hammy and campy and that might have fit in the old self-contained episodes but if she's meant to be a season-long villain set amid Picard's 'final voyage,' which I assume means he may actually die at the end, that's just kind of annoying. The dramatic lighting on her bridge! The SMOKING while commanding a ship. (Smoking?! Cmon. What is this, Austin Powers?) It feels so out of place when everyone else is playing their characters so seriously and with dramatic heft.

I saw an interview with the director and he surprisingly admitted that the old episodes 'were smarter in a way' and the new one is focused more on character and conflict, and one minor tech thing I noticed while watching and thought was pretty thoughtless was that Picard told Seven to 'do the honors' and pilot the ship, and she pushed a button and then explained that everything is done by automations now. It seems really funny to me that hundreds of years into the future, tech developments over 30 years parallel tech developments over our past 30 years. Next thing you know, the distant future will have AI chatbots that freak people out.

Are Vadic's henchmen Jem'Hadar?

Maybe Breen without the old head gear.

So is another Dominion war coming?

Has anyone seen the other 3 episodes screened earlier?

Will they ever get the Titan out of this anomaly???

Being that DS9 is my favorite ST show, this episode gave me goosebumps!

OH MY GOD.

The guy who played the changeling that Rafi and Worf captured is the actor who played Thomas Picard, Picard's son in the Nexus in Generations.

As I said earlier, Ed Speleers could convincingly play a grown up version of this kid.

That actor is DL Icon Thomas Dekker.

Current theories:

There's still more to this than just the changelings and Dominion. There has to be some bigger connection to Picard, or they wouldn't be chasing Jack Crusher. I'd love a guest spot from Salome Jens, especially since Rene Auberjonois sadly died a few years ago.

The guy who told Riker to turn and fight is the changeling, not the actual Picard. Picard left the bridge to go see Jack. The changeling interecepted him after incapacitating Jack. There's no way Picard would have been so stupid as to turn and fight a ship so vastly superior in firepower. Picard is the one who hid in the nebula to get away from the Borg. He knows when he's outmatched.

Deanna can spot changeling imposters, especially of her old friends. Some plot point will turn on Deanna going full Betazoid and saving the day. Given all the sly nods to Trek already, I'd LOVE to see Deanna shove a changeling into an airlock and eject it into space.

What a tedious episode, with Picard and Beverley bickering like teenagers. Gurls, you're pensioners, 1) you're above this and 2) simmer down or you'll break something. It doesn't help that neither actor has enough breath control anymore to deliver a sentence in a single exhale. I got flashes to Shohreh Aghdashloo's emphysema in The Expanse.

The whole Jack resuscitation sequence looked almost comical, it was that badly shot. It took almost twenty seconds from when he came back to life to when we saw the reaction shot of Beverley, his literal MOTHER.

I like that the Changelings are back, although I cringed at Worf's voiceover expo dump in the background. Loved Amanda going "fire" calmly towards the start. The way the Shrike was violently thrown back like a toy after a photon torpedo exploded nearby made me laugh, that's TOS season 1 level of ridiculous.

The opera that Worf was listening to when Rafi wakes up is Berlioz' "Les Troyens - the same one Picard was listening to in First Contact in his ready room just before they engaged the Borg in Sector 001.

I found it a bit far-fetched in the first place that Beverly could even get pregnant with Jack 20 years ago in that timeline. Wouldn’t that turd Wesley be in his 40s? And damn, Patrick Stewart is so ancient —surely he doesn’t need the money.

[quote]I found it a bit far-fetched in the first place that Beverly could even get pregnant with Jack 20 years ago in that timeline.

I've been saying this from the beginning when the rumors that he was Picard's son first started making the rounds. I was told by people that "of course, a woman in her late 50s could have a kid. McCoy was 120 years old and showed up in TNG - blah, blah, blah."

I don't doubt that medical science could intervene and allow an older post-menopausal woman to have a child in the 24 century. But, the key is that it would have to be an affirmative decision to do so, not the result of a random last hookup.

The other argument people make is that they both spent a lot of time on the Baku planet in Insurrection. The Baku left their homeworld in 2066 (Insurrection takes place in 2375), so Anij was something like 300 years old, but looked about 50. Folks are arguing that the radiation de-aged Beverly sufficiently to allow for natural conception.

I am willing to suspend my disbelief if Jack isn't just a McGuffin. The hallucinations when Seven finds him suggests there's something. Let's hope it's worthwhile enough to overlook the plot issues with a late 50s Beverly getting pregnant.

R184 Janet Jackson had offspring at 51, something impossible 30 years ago.

Star Trek is hundreds of years into the future. People can probably brew up babies in the food replicator if they want.

Raffi and Worf is the buddy cop show I didn’t know I needed.

At this point, I consider Worf a DS9 character anyway, so I’m glad they’re calling back to that.

So the changeling is played by a gayling? I was just thinking to myself what a tremendous job the actor did with that little role and that he had a bright future ahead of him in the biz when I opened this thread and saw that he was a DL icon already. Such a youthful face, had me fooled completely.

He’s only a gayling by DL MethusalehGay standards. He’s in his mid-30s.

He’s rather famous for getting fired from Heroes because his agent refused to let him play gay. But yes, he’s married to a man.

It's interesting, I have heard several of the actors say that this new iteration finally puts the female characters on an equal level with the male ones.

I just noticed that Picard is regularly referred to as 'a legend' of Starfleet.

Riker has been referred to as 'a legend' several times.

Laforge Junior referred to her father as 'a legend' in this week's episode.

Worf is 'a legend.'

Meanwhile, Deanna Troi is at home dealing with brats and getting drunk, and Dr. Crusher is just some lady on a rogue spaceship with a little sexy bastard boy.

Allllll the men from the original series are living legends, and the women are kind of pathetic. Doesn't seem like the series has come as far as the women actors think it has.

r190, we’re just 3 episodes in and the women may end up saving the day after all, just like they did in TNG Seasons 3 “The Best of Both Worlds”. Fight me! 😁

Perhaps Jack is a hybrid Changling. Beverly mated with a changling pretending to be Picard!

That's why they want him.

[quote]Meanwhile, Deanna Troi is at home dealing with brats and getting drunk

r190 A similar thought occurred to me during that segment. Honestly, that whole exchange between Picard and Riker at the bar felt dated as fuck.

R191 They might save the day but it's been made clear all the men are celebrated across galaxies as legends and the women are just nobodies, whether or not they save the day.

Another random thought that must come up a lot with Star Trek but has never occurred to me before: there are humanoids on all the planets and all the ships and plants on most of the planets, but not a single non-humanoid animal to he found anywhere. How odd.

[quote]Another random thought that must come up a lot with Star Trek but has never occurred to me before: there are humanoids on all the planets and all the ships and plants on most of the planets, but not a single non-humanoid animal to he found anywhere. How odd.

One could argue that convergent evolution generally selects for certain physical attributes necessary to become a technological society. For instance, it would be very difficult for a water-based species to develop technology because things like fire and everything associated with it would not be readily available. Sure, a small handful might achieve it, but not many.

Also, there was an episode of TNG: The Chase in which it's suggested that the general humanoid form was seeded across the galaxy be a forerunner race that developed very early before other races.

[quote]They might save the day but it's been made clear all the men are celebrated across galaxies as legends and the women are just nobodies

I actually thought the ship's woman doctor being a jerk to Beverly was outrageous. At the time that woman was probably a cadet 20 years earlier, Beverly was the head of Starfleet Medical. Show some respect.

Seven always kicks ass and saves the day. I hope she comes through again. I liked her chemistry with Jack (not romantic, buddy), just like I liked Worf and Rafi. I wouldn't mind seeing Jack and Seven paired up for adventures this season.

I wouldn't mind seeing Seven jack Jack's seven...

r193, that exchange at the bar was a flashback. Interesting how it appears some DL posters didn't catch on to that. Deanna and Riker's son was a baby who was born before their daughter Kes. We know from the best episode in Season 1 of Picard that the boy died very young and Kes is an adolescent. IT'S A FLASHBAAACK!

[quote]I actually thought the ship's woman doctor being a jerk to Beverly was outrageous. At the time that woman was probably a cadet 20 years earlier, Beverly was the head of Starfleet Medical. Show some respect.

r195, that annoyed the fuck out of me. I'm like BITCH, you should feel blessed to have THE Dr. Beverly Crusher helping you out during a red alert medical emergency triage.

[quote][R193], that exchange at the bar was a flashback. Interesting how it appears some DL posters didn't catch on to that. Deanna and Riker's son was a baby who was born before their daughter Kes. We know from the best episode in Season 1 of Picard that the boy died very young and Kes is an adolescent. IT'S A FLASHBAAACK!

Kestra, not Kes.

[quote]IT'S A FLASHBAAACK!

To when, bitch? Twenty years prior? They're still old geezers, both.

R198 That's my point exactly. All the men have been explictly described as legends to all their peers and successors, and the women have no reputations at all. They don't matter within the Starfleet world. They're just domestics as far as everyone is concerned even though they served and fought and thought alongside the legends.

[quote][R198] That's my point exactly. All the men have been explictly described as legends to all their peers and successors, and the women have no reputations at all. They don't matter within the Starfleet world. They're just domestics as far as everyone is concerned even though they served and fought and thought alongside the legends.

Yeah, the doctor really should have been in AWE of Beverly. They wanted the ship's doctor to tell her to sit down, but it wasn't necessary and didn't further the story or characters. Would it really have been an issue to give Beverly her due as the exceptional doctor and officer she had been for decades on the flagship of the Federation?

That along with Riker's reaction to Picard, telling him that he just got them all killed, was not "earned" in the story. After decades as friends, there's no way Riker or Picard would have said that to the other, especially after the earlier Butch and Sundance moment with the photon torpedo and phaser combo.

Minor bitching aside (this is DL, you know), these first three episodes have been top notch.

If you listen to people who've seen more of the season with review copies, it continues to get better.

Along with Picard, it's just been announced Discovery is along ending.

It's a natural conclusion for DISCO. But if they touch Strange New Worlds, I'm gonna go nuclear.

R205 (and others) Picard is the first 'new' (streaming, I guess) Star Trek title I have watched and I like it. The only one I ever really got into was The Next Generation, though.

Could you please characterize, explain the personality and what you like about, Discovery and Strange New Worlds? I can look up reviews, of course, but I'd be more interested in thoughts from people who choose to watch the series rather than those who are assigned them as homework to review.

How are Discovery and Strange New Worlds different? Are they more serialized like Picard or episodic like TNG? Are they more thoughtful like TNG or more action-spectacle with a lot of battles, etc., or more about relationships? And so on?

I liked the mind-stretching imagination and sci-fi possibilities of TNG, and I liked the compassionate additions of Troi and Dr. Crusher, the graceful thoughtfulness of Picard, the mysteriousness of Guinan and Q, the curiosity of Wesley. I liked Data a lot and I especially liked Geordie with Data, but I thought Burton's acting was a little stilted so I probably didn't get into his character as much as I might have. The battle sequences and the manly-Klingon stuff with Word aren't my cup of tea, and Riker always gave me the creeps all around. Insofar as nonhumans, I enjoyed the Betazed a lot—they seem not to have any role in any other series, yes?—and Vulcans can be fun but Romulans always get on my nerves, and the snarling, aggressive natures of Klingons and especially Ferengi really annoy me. I think the only TNG episodes I ever turned off were the ones that focused mostly on them.

Disco is very serialized. It’s polarizing for reasons I don’t understand—some, though not all is due to having a Black woman as the lead character and the show being (TRIGGER WARNING) queer as hell. It’s had good seasons and bad seasons, but I would still call it successful. It managed to run five seasons and put the franchise back into better shape than it’s been in for maybe 25 years.

SNW is mostly episodic, but there are running plot elements.

[quote]Disco is very serialized. It’s polarizing for reasons I don’t understand—some, though not all is due to having a Black woman as the lead character and the show being (TRIGGER WARNING) queer as hell.

Having a black woman lead is NOT the reason people hate it. If the show told good stories and didn't play fast and loose with established Trek canon, fans wouldn't have a problem with Disco. What the Disco apologists like to SCREAM is misogyny and racism to cover for the fact that they don't actually have a rebuttal for a more basic issue - poor storytelling, even poorer character development, and writers who've openly stated their intent to "subvert expectations" which is coded language for not having any particular liking for Trek or it's characters and having an agenda to "own" long-time fans about whom they've made a huge number of unfounded assumptions.

The show's writers have proudly announced that they don't care about the very things that Trek fans love in favor of pushing an agenda.

The saddest part is that Sonequa Martin Green is actually very good and could have been among the beloved of Trek characters had they taken just a bit more care in creating a good character. Book is also a solid character and David Ajala is also very good. I would not have minded in the slightest having a Trek show led by both of them if their characters had been better developed and the stories had been better told.

There are so many tantalizing hints of a good story and good characters. Instead, they wallow in silly characters. Stammets and Culber's story about a gay couple was interesting, but they introduced the absurd non-binary character whose story was utterly uninteresting, let alone the whole laughable attempt to retcon the Trill. No one cared about them, but half the show was devoted to telling their story - badly, might I add.

Discovery was an over-correction to Trek's shortcomings in the past -- it centers a black protagonist to the exclusion of all others, to the point where other non-white characters are there as set dressing only. We got so many speeches from her and so little character development from the rest, I still had no clue who Bryce was when he said goodbye in the fourth season. I was probably its most vocal defender here on DL (and elsewhere) in its first two seasons, but my god that show's formula didn't evolve one bit by the end. And it's so preachy and mawkish as well.

Strange New Worlds in turn is a correction to that over-correction. Basically good old Trek, but with stylish homosexual haircuts. And featuring natural inclusion, which is what we're aiming for anyway. I think you'd enjoy it a lot, r206.

Loved the episode. Worf had the best lines, as always. "This is casual." "Beheadings are on Wednesdays." Bringing the Dominion back into the picture is the twist I didn't know I wanted.

This season has so far exceeded my expectations.

[quote]Bringing the Dominion back into the picture is the twist I didn't know I wanted.

I'm tentatively optimistic. However, the Dominion is DS9. Bringing them back without Odo and Sisko seems off to me. However, it's been solid (pun intended) so far, so am willing to let it play out for now.

The actor who played Nog died, so no Captain Nog. Dukat and Kai Winn (the characters) are dead. Would have LOVED to see Louise Fletcher. She always punched well above her weight as Winn - she made a mediocre character despicable. Wouldn't mind a quick cameo of Garak, perhaps running the Obsidian Order, so Worf goes to him for intel.

Thank you, R209 and others.

Funny random aside: When I was in 10th grade, my English teacher had a book of celebrity addresses (for fan mail) and she made everyone write a letter to someone we admire and tell them why as a writing assignment.

I wrote to Whoopi Goldberg/Caryn Johnson to tell her how much I admire her career, especially in her role as Guinan.

Everyone thought I was completely crazy. Every other boy wrote to some athlete or action star, but I also remember one black girl seeming offended, as if a black actress were her jurisdiction and not someone some white boy should be writing to.

Caryn never replied to my letter, btw.

Not crazy with Changelings being the villain as DS9 was the one Trek series I could never get into. A combination of the serialized plot and actors and characters I couldn't click with. Agree with the criticism of Disco. A missed opportunity. With so much Trek content it's not a one size fits all.

^bitch

[quote] DS9 was the one Trek series I could never get into.

Your loss entirely. Of all the previous shows, it holds up the best. Some superb television.

AMEN r208! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Grow up, R216. I'm not the person you were addressing but everyone's taste differs. There are a lot of duds, episodes and storylines, in DS9. It's also depressing and dark which is not everyone's cup of tea. Even though some people equate depressing and dark with depth, that doesn't make it true. I've tried watching some DS9 again in rerun and it just doesn't hold up to me mostly because I don't find the characters particularly relatable or compelling. You seem to not have learned anything about what the entirety of Star Trek was about which was acceptance of other people's views and existence without judgment as long as they aren't hurting anyone and that no one is less than you due to those views...but I guess that's your loss.

I gave up on DS9 halfway through and just watched the Dominion parts, using a guide I found online. I'd've lapped it up as a kid, but I just don't have time for something as drawn out anymore as there's so much stuff out there now competing for my attention.

I'm sure it's a nice series, I have nothing against it. I was legitimately scared shitless of the Dominion, though admittedly they were scarier when they were operating in the shadows and on the margins. But that's always the case with villains, or imagination does its part.

I kinda like Picard because of the crazy choices made by the writers and producers. In it's basic Prime Directive, it entertains. Just that simple.

On the phone, sorry, in its basic

*our imagination

r220 Yeah, I like it as an experiment as well. And it doesn't take away anything from TNG, although it'd not exactly a glowing addition either.

Count me as one of the people who couldn't get into DS9. I've actually never seen all the episodes of TNG either but have likely caught most of them throughout the years. I have paramount + and one of my goals is to someday watch it from beginning to end but who knows if I ever will. I loved Voyager even though it didn't get good until 7 of 9 came on. For some reason, I watched Enterprise and thought it was meh. I actually like Discovery but I agree that some of the gender shit got tiresome as it really felt like they were trying too hard to make people like it. I couldn't stand that actor/actress Ian Alexander with the bad skin. He/she was awful although Blu Del Barrio didn't bother me so much.

Picard has been fun. This season so far has been great but I always thought Gates McFadden was a horrible actress as is Micheal Dorn so far this season. It's like he can't remember how to play Worf. And I absolutely cannot STAND Bret Spinner so I'm not looking forward to his appearance anytime soon. I also thought Riker was an asshole and Marina Sitris was a bad actress, too.

The truth is none of the Star Trek actors was very good except Patrick Stewart. Michael Dorn could be very funny as Worf, when given the chance ("And the name is WORF, not WOOF!", which he snapped at Lwaxana, was my all-time favorite), and Brent Spiner could be okay as Data (although when he played Lore, he would become like Snidely Whiplash and was ridiculous).

The other actors mostly just got by. Sirtis and Frakes were immensely likable, and Troi was so campy I always looked forward to her scenes; but neither was much of an actor. McFadden was only there to spout technobabble and act efficient. And even they are better than the wooden Denise Crosby as the butch Tasha Yar and the implausibly blonde Commander Sela.

One of the most striking things about the series ST: TNG if you watch it today is that since the level of acting was not high (except for Stewart), every so often the guest stars just act everyone else right off the screen. Probably the most striking is the great Jean Simmons in "The Drumhead." But David Ogden Stiers is also very fine as Doctor Timicin in "Half a Life," as is Susan Powell as the guilt-ridden simulated double of Marla Aster in "The Bonding."

And my two favorite guest performances of all are Carolyn Seymour's, in two very different roles: as the wide-eyed Mirasta Yale in "First Contact" (the episode, not the movie), and as the sour and embittered Romulan Commander Toreth in "Face of the Enemy," who almost (but not quite) prevents that episode from being the campiest of all TNG episodes.

The captain dude on DS9 was exhausting as an actor.

Carolyn Seymour and Suzie Plakson were both great stand-outs.

R225, Avery Brooks and his bad acting really ruined the show for me. It always seemed like he was thinking, "What am I doing on this stupid Star Trek show!? I'm an AC-TOR!!"

Avery Brooks was a ridiculous hambone special... and his character was an obsessive baseball bore! Two awful things that go terribly together.

Commander Sisko was a Mary Sue character in that one of the DS9 creators was himself a baseball fanatic and thought that given that fascinating aspect of his own personality to the character would make him more interesting to viewers. Of course it only made him seem like an Aspie (and it also seemed ridiculous since it was established there was no baseball being played in the future, and so Commander Sisko had to obsess about baseball games played in his universe's past, which seemed ridiculous).

One of the things that really ruins Trek for me at times is how much they use music from the classical greats like Chopin or Mozart. I mean, there have been thousands of years that have gone by and you're gonna tell me no one in the future composed great music? It ALWAYS takes me right out of the sci fi aspect of it. In fact, that was one of my complaints about Andor. The music was too modern and familiar...one episode even had someone jamming on a drum set.

DS9 is my favorite Trek to date, but I do agree that Avery Brooks acting was terrible going the first couple seasons of the show. If you watch the big documentary they did a few years ago though, Brooks was under pressure from the studio to basically not play "street." Once Brooks shaved his head (and studio attention went over to Voyager), Brooks becomes much better in the role.

I’m in the minority according to all the posts above, my favorites are Enterprise and Discovery (first two seasons). DS9 was like a shitty version of a soap opera and TNG had some of the most annoying characters ever (Neelix, Kes, Paris).

This season of Picard has been good but this episode felt like filler with a tiny reveal.

The poster who thinks it would be great idea for Louise Fletcher to do a cameo might be pushing it since both her character and actress are dead.

TNG reminds me how close we had Billy Campbell as Riker. He was the runner up in the casting apparently.

My favorite thing about Sisko was something that Brooks insisted be there from the beginning: He was a REALLY good dad.

I know his style was very…theatrical, but they would write to it. There were times that he would almost be singing, if that makes any sense. And yeah, that may or may not be your thing, but it was often compelling to watch.

The thing that impressed me most in the documentary was that despite the fact that he wasn’t warm and cuddly with the rest of the cast, to a person, they clearly respected the hell out of him. And all expressed disgust that the producers wouldn’t let him shave his head until the fourth season. I loved Penny Johnson Jerald talking about how sexy she thought it was and that she loved touching it.

[quote]And all expressed disgust that the producers wouldn’t let him shave his head until the fourth season.

While I would have loved Trek to continue, it's always seemed to me that Berman, Braga, et al. had run their course by the time ENT was cancelled. ENT was uneven, Archer's character was erratic, nazi Nakuhl was silly, and killing Trip demonstrated an utter lack of control over story, let alone Riker reliving it on a holodeck.

It's also obvious that Kurtzman and Goldsman are not Trek fans, but just glommed onto the franchise. Matalas, McMahan (Lower Decks), and even the Hageman brothers (Prodigy) have a better grasp of what makes for good Trek.

While they've cancelled Disco, I always hoped that it had turned the corner after Season 2 because the Red Angel storyline had hints promise and season 4 also - it's obvious that the people running it have the creative depth of a petri dish. It's cancellation may be a harbringer of doom given the upheaval in streaming occurring.

I'm strangely excited about the SNW and Lower Decks crossover. If they can pull something like that off, that would be interesting.

[quote] While I would have loved Trek to continue, it's always seemed to me that Berman, Braga, et al. had run their course by the time ENT was cancelled.

I have a certain amount of respect for Berman, because for as much as I disliked a lot of his creative decisions (and, let’s face is, homophobia, which he’s since walked back), he LOVED his job, and managed to keep the shows on the air for fifteen years.

Braga has gone up in my esteem as well, given that he’s now willing to acknowledge the things that they’d fucked up with Enterprise.

[quote]I have a certain amount of respect for Berman, because for as much as I disliked a lot of his creative decisions (and, let’s face is, homophobia, which he’s since walked back), he LOVED his job, and managed to keep the shows on the air for fifteen years.

[quote]Braga has gone up in my esteem as well, given that he’s now willing to acknowledge the things that they’d fucked up with Enterprise.

While I agree to a certain extent, I also think that both points are only true in hindsight. Also, Braga likely only came to his insight after years of other people pointing out the failings. Cynically, I also wonder whether it wasn't a mea culpa to get back in.

Without the utter failure of Nemesis on top of ENT demonstrating that they had run their course, their stewardship of Trek would have continued the downward spiral it was on.

Some, although not all, of Nemesis’ failings were do to its release window. They put it out the week before The Two Towers (or Return of the King, I don’t remember precisely) thinking that they’d get the overflow crowd for the second weekend, which they did…not.

I think it would have done better with a different release window. It would have been fine if they’d dumped it in January or February.

[quote]and TNG had some of the most annoying characters ever (Neelix, Kes, Paris).

They were on Voyager, not TNG.

[quote] One of the things that really ruins Trek for me at times is how much they use music from the classical greats like Chopin or Mozart. I mean, there have been thousands of years that have gone by and you're gonna tell me no one in the future composed great music? It ALWAYS takes me right out of the sci fi aspect of it.

It sounds like you want them somehow to create a great musical tradition for several hundred years in the future, which is pretty hard to imagine how they would realistically do.

I mean, it’s only been since Disco that they’ve even really paid to have more contemporary stuff. Even Edith Piaf on Picard was unusual.

We have had snippets of Klingon opera.

As much as I dislike Disco, without it, I'm not sure that we'd be getting anything at all today.

While I find that it failed, I do give it credit for trying and finding out definitively that such things do NOT work for Trek. While I find the frequent pandering almost as irritating, they needed to figure out what would and wouldn't work.

While I'm loving Picard so far, I find the starship porn that that series has used irritating. The first season finale cut and paste fleet was terrible. The second season opening made up for it, but...it made no sense given the first season's fleet. They went from hundreds of Inquiry class ships (which also generally goes against the Starfleet "we don't build battleships" mantra) to a more traditional fleet of mixed types. I like the La Sirena and the Sagan Class Stargazer A. There was NO reason to introduce a Constitution II class ship this season, especially as a Titan A. They should have gone with Stargazer A again to affirm its place as a hero ship. If they were going to go with Titan A, it should have been a refit of the Luna Class Titan.

R227, I remember reading an interview with Avery Brooks in TV Guide back when he first got the job on DS9. He was pretty dismissive of Star Trek, basically saying Sisko was just another role.

By that point, Star Trek had been a cultural phenomenon for 30 years. Even if he wasn't into it, you'd think that getting a lead role in the new Trek series might have prompted him to at least acknowledge its importance in pop culture. It made me think he was a pompous asshole.

And while I watched DS9 pretty much to the end, I never warmed to Sisko, although I loved that he was a great father to Jake.

It’s not exactly that he was dismissive of it being Star Trek. He just saw it as a job, not as part of a legacy. It’s why he doesn’t do conventions or interviews about it anymore. He’s said all that he has to say.

What does he do with his time? He doesn't seem to have been very visible since DS9 ended.

R244 Based on the [limited] things Brooks has said over the years, he totally saw DS9 as just another gig. I don't think he really saw [or even cared] about his legacy as being the first person of color to lead a Trek show. Unlike TNG, and subsequently VOY, the DS9 set was much more formal and a large part of that was down to Brooks who insisted on a formal tone on set. Indeed, Armin Shimmerman has said that in the whole seven years, Brooks never referred to him by his first first name. It was always Mr. Shimmerman. Brooks also had a reputation for having a bad temper. There is a book, something like the oral history of Trek, where Alexander Siddig (Dr. Bashir) talks about getting into several heated arguments with Brooks. Also, Brooks wanted to leave the show early in its run and only stayed because he felt he owed it to his children to show them you had to take your commitments seriously. One side note, Brooks continued to teach at Rutgers while he was doing DS9.

R246 After DS9, he apparently moved back to NY and continued his academic career at Rutgers. He also did some theatre as well. Cirroc Lofton has stated that for whatever reason, Brooks has been blacklisted in Hollywood which is why he has never really returned to film or TV after DS9. Not sure what that's about.

I wonder what could have happened to get Avery Brooks blacklisted? Did he piss off someone high up in Hollywood or find out some unsavory information about an important person in Hollywood.

R247 my impression of Brooks is that he was very, very weird about being in ST. The weird that Stewart and Mulgrew WANTED to be, but the former was worn down by the fun with others and the latter eventually got over herself after disputes (like w/Jeri Ryan). Brooks never let himself go, didn't want to be there, and had the stick up his ass continue through at least most of the run.

On the other hand, it may have contributed to DS9 being one of the more cerebral-seeming scifi shows ever(?). 'Pompus assholes' can actually leak onto the screen in intriguing ways. Stewart being a high class performer, contributed to the positive sense of the captain warming up over time to his new ship family. Mulgrew being too-good-for-this, contributed to her decidedly hamming it up over time and creating the murderous Janeway jokes. I never felt Brooks evolved like that, so its like the writers had to work around it and make Sisko an unchangeable boulder that others evolve *around*. However, his initial impression (even if that barely changed over time) did appeal a lot to some. For several months, I had a black roommate that enjoyed Sisko a lot and considered him at least kind of aspirational, and it helped that his appearance and personality was not-too-far-off from Sisko's, albeit more realistically relaxed. I appreciated that he appreciated Sisko, and I'm still a proponent of reasonable levels of representation in media that helps all of us see ourselves in a variety of types of characters.

He's just definitely not my favorite captain haha. I think I like Archer and Kirk less though. I'm not getting into Disco/Picard/SNW.

A lot of people—fams—see Star Trek as an inspiration for a utiopian egalitarian society.

A lot of people who are not fans think of Star Trek as a cheesy old low-budget TV show franchise that feature poor acting and have dorky conventions attended by obsessive nerds.

I woild imagine Avery Brooks may have had the latter perspective and he might have been embarrassed to be associated with a series that has never been celebrated for great acting, Patrick Stewart notwithstanding.

[quote] Brooks has also been inducted into the College of Fellows of the American Theatre and bestowed with the William Shakespeare Award for Classical Theatre by the Shakespeare Theatre Company.

...and enemy number one of the Ferengi!

Riker looks like he’s about to take a big data dump from Data in OP’s picture.

R251 Stewart was embarrassed too, until he grew to have more fun with it. But even then, he was part of the push to first make things more action filled (the movies) and vanity projects (Picard show). He never loved Star Trek as a whole, in my opinion, but he was able to flourish and enjoy his role.

Jonathan Frakes probably genuinely enjoys the franchise more, in whatever sense works for him. He can't have directed so much of ST or similar projects for it to be otherwise.

R254 Out of the TNG gang, I think Patrick Stewart, Gates McFadden and Brent Spiner took the longest to really really appreciate their role within the franchise without necessarily being fans of franchise. Marina Sirtis and Jonathan Frakes were among the first to attend conventions among the TNG cast.

"Brooks has also been inducted into the College of Fellows of the American Theatre and bestowed with the William Shakespeare Award for Classical Theatre by the Shakespeare Theatre Company."

Me too!

I restarted my subscription tonight and watched the first 3 episodes. The 4th drops this Thursday. Why have some of the posters here already watched it?

Vadic's hand is a Changeling???

Really beautiful episode.

I teared up when Riker was teleconferencing with Troi.

Sounds like she is ready to join in on the adventure.

Nice throwbacks to Farpoint.

Shirtless Jack. Yummmmmmm....

No one watching this week?

The ending was nice, but my god can we please stop mining Wolf 359 for drama? Imagine if people kept ragging on Janeway for destroying the Caretaker's array thirty years later. We get it bitch, you were traumatised. But you're in the space military, you're supposed to be ready for extra horrific crap to happen at any moment.

I'm glad the Changeling got disposed of relatively quickly, instead of dragging it out over several episodes. I missed Worf.

Space squids reminded me of this beautiful segment from Courage the Cowardly Dog.

I’m saying this with complete sincerity: That is the best performance I’ve ever seen Jonathan Frakes give.

Beautiful episode all the way around, but he was the MVP.

Yeah, he can be great when he decides to not phone it in, which is always.

Another great episode.

- the callback not only to Farpoint (those looked like younger versions of the space squids), but also it has a meta throwback to "the beginning" in this "final" season which creates some resonance which I'm hoping they capitalize on.

- Jack in the bar and Picard's realization was extremely well-done. I had initially dismissed the bar scene as another "no win scenario" lecture to cadets.

- I'm liking Shaw, but agree the Wolf 359 trauma is overdone. Also, small ding - if his psych profile in his Starfleet file was what Vadic stated earlier, there's no way Starfleet would give someone that seemingly unstable a command of his own. Shaw's speech in Ten Forward was fantastic. We need a better insight into why he'd select a former Borg as his first officer - since the captain appears to be able to choose at will - as Picard points out to Riker in TNG: Pegasus.

- Frakes directed this episode. Riker's speech was excellent along with his conversation with Troi at the end.

- Jack's visions. I'm hoping it doesn't become some cliche in which he turns out to be a changeling/human hybrid and THAT is why they want him. Spending an entire season with him as Picard's son, only to find out the big twist is that he's not would be disappointing. Now, if it turns out the BEVERLY is not Beverly, but a changeling and that's how they explain Jack being a hybrid, I could get on board with that if they do go down that route.

I'm out. (This is probably a lie and I'll continue watching, though, knowing myself). Just finished episode four and I can't take all the bad writing. I was looking forward to it because several reviewers I like, who had seen all 10 episodes, sang its praises, but I'm not on board. It's good, in my opinion, only by comparison with the rest of recent Trek. I've been thinking about it this morning, about how I'd fix things, but I don't know where to even start.

Also McFadden turned herself into a new Star Trek alien species all by herself with whatever surgeries she's subjected herself too, it's very disconcerting to watch.

I agree with the criticisms about the Wolf 359 trauma. In fact, the whole plot surrounding it is basically a rehash of Sisko's dislike of Picard in the pilot of DS9. Also, in reality far more Starfleet officers died during the Dominion War I feel like more people would be traumatized by that rather than a battle with the Borg that took place 30 years prior to this episode.

R266 I actually don't think Gates McFadden has had a ton of work done. She clearly uses botox, fillers (which I think are overdone), and some chemical peels. She may have had a facelift but in interviews for this season she looks more noticeably wrinkly. Also have to remember because the show is shot in 4K, they cake the makeup on.

A few years ago, Gates had fucked with her face and hair color (or likely, wig color) so much, that I saw a picture of her with Frakes and I honestly thought she was Marina at first.

My take on Gates' face, a lot of botox and fillers. At the very least a partial face lift and had eye bags removed. This is a picture of her in 2007...

Yep, she's been hacked, throttled about and lifted with the slack sliced off.

She was in a low-budget gay movie called Make The Yuletide Gay about fifteen years ago. In that one, she looked like a woman had gone to the face sharpener and asked "Can you make me look vaguely like Gates McFadden?"

No way Ed speelers should be playing a 20 year old. Seriously they couldn't find an actor in his early 20s?

R257 here, I'm an idiot. I thought I had watched the first 3 episodes. I had only watched 2.

This reminds me of Gates McFadden 2023

[quote]No way Ed speelers should be playing a 20 year old. Seriously they couldn't find an actor in his early 20s?

I'm a bit boggled by his casting. On the one hand, he is good in the role so far if you ignore the age issue. On the other hand, there is no way anyone would mistake him for early 20s. It's not like they had to have an actor with the acting talents of a Daniel Day Lewis or even a Christian Bale.

The only thing I can imagine is that they were trying to distinguish Jack as more worldly and experienced than the very young bridge crew. Technically, he's probably younger than Sidney LaForge, but having someone look and seem younger than her wouldn't quite feel right.

That was a damn good episode. It was nice seeing a crew working together with a common goal. Everyone got a moment to shine. If this had been "Discovery," Michael would have figured out everything and saved the day ... again. We even got Picard recording a log, which got the star date correct.

One thing I like is the displays (the Okudagrams) are big and clearly visible, so you can kind of follow along with whatever the person using them is doing. No more typing in your phone number.

R272 I get why some people are annoyed by this. At best, Speelers can pass for 30ish, but it doesn't really bother me. Hollywood has a long tradition of casting older actors in teenage/young adult roles (See: Grease). Also I think Speelers is hot & he actually does look like he could be the offspring of Gates and Patrick IMHO.

Gates McFadden does need to stop with all the face work. It's very telling because her face is so tight and smooth, but her hands and neck are those of a 70+ year old woman. It's sad because I think she's a beautiful woman and would've probably aged very gracefully. That being said, Gates is giving the best performance of her career as Crusher.

I came here to comment on the “twenty-year old”. The guy’s a decent actor, but he can’t pull that off.

I want Captain Shaw to send me to my cabin. Where he’ll visit me later and punish me for my transgressions!

Picard is on his 90s right? He was in the academy with Jack crusher, presumably they were the same age. Beverly was married to Jack and let's say they were around the same age give or take 10 years. Wouldn't that make Beverly in her 80s or 90s? So she had little jack in her 60s or 70s?

The age-obsessed queens on here, I swear to Agnes of fucking God. Who gives a shit, it's a space show, Mary. If you can buy Amanda Plummer as a starship-commanding villain, you can suspend your disbelief some more and imagine Ed Speelers' bussy being as tight as a 20-year-old's.

I'm not harping on Ed speelers age just to be bitchy. It's that he not looking like an early 20 something did affect my understanding of the story timeline initially. When they talked about Beverly breaking off all contact with Picard, I thought how did she hide the 5 to 10 year old son from him? But no, she broke away and then had the kid some 20ish years ago. And I look at speelers and think, no fucking way.

^^^During the last episode, Picard and Jack actually discuss his actual age as being 23,24 while in the holodeck Ten Forward.

TNG takes place in 2364-2370. Picard Takes place in 2401 or 2402 (it's been stated as both by various people involved); therefore Jack was born in 2378. If he had been born during season 2 of TNG, he would have been born in 2365-ish, making Jack more like 35 in the current timeline (Speleers is 34).

Frankly, it would make a bit more sense for Beverly to have had Jack during Season 2 of TNG while she was away at Starfleet Medical - they could have hooked up during the episode The Naked Now (The Naked Time redux episode in which Data and Tasha hook up, as well), as many people initially suggested when 34 year old Speleers was cast.

Based on the dialog in Picard, Picard and Beverly hooked up two months before she left the Enterprise E. Nemesis takes place in 2379. In 2381, Picard was recalled while they were on shore leave during which Jack was conceived. So, Jack's vague agreement that he was 23,24 is also a bit off - he'd be 20 or 21 if he were conceived on the shore leave as Picard and Beverly discussed in the second episode.

[quote]Wouldn't that make Beverly in her 80s or 90s? So she had little jack in her 60s or 70s?

Worth remembering that we've seen before that human lifespans are much longer in the 24/25th century. So, a woman in her 60s could conceivably be fertile. If people live to be 150, which seems to be the general idea within the franchise, that's roughly the equivalent of a woman getting pregnant in her late 30s or early 40s.

You must be joking with us R280 if you think the age obsessed queens should get over it. You’re talking about fans who freak the fuck out if a Jefferies tube is slightly misaligned on a schematic of a starship shown in the opening credits of an episode.

R184, pointing out the inappropriate age of an actor for a character is a feather to the soles of the feet!

At the drop of a phaser, trekkers can get their knickers in a twist.

How many episodes for season three. A British 10?

Picard was born in 2305 making him 96 as of 2401 (when this season supposedly takes place). Beverly was born in 2324 making her 77. Nemesis takes place in 2379 so at most Jack is 22.

R184 TNG-era Star Trek suggests the average human life expectancy is around 120 years. My head canon is that due to this prolonged lifespan, and the corresponding medical treatments/interventions that would require, women reach menopause later then they do presently. In fact, in the early 19th century, the average age for menopause was 40 diet and lifestyle changes meant about the mid-20th century, that had risen to 48.

Hell, McCoy was walking around the Enterprise-D with Data and he looked older than Methuselah.

A woman is born with all the eggs she'll EVER have.

[quote]During fetal development, you have about 6 million eggs. At birth, there are approximately 1 million eggs left. By the time you reach puberty, only about 300,000 remain. The number of eggs you have continues to decline as you age and menstruate each cycle. a woman at 30 often has around 100,000-150,000 eggs in reserve. By 35, that number is likely around 80,000. Late into the thirties, that number could be 25,000, 10,000, or fewer.

It doesn't matter how long medicine can extend a woman's life or whether it can extend the time period during which she can carry a child. When you're done, you're done. Also, it presumes that Beverly had been taking active medical steps to remain fertile, e.g., delaying the onset of menopause.

They're adding more years on the backend, not slowing the aging process throughout a person's entire life. Yes, it's likely that medical science of the era could make it possible for an older woman to conceive and carry a child safely. But, that woman would have to be taking active steps to do so - fertility treatments and such. She'd have to be trying to remain fertile in order to get pregnant. Also, if she were knowingly fertile and pregnancy were a possibility, how irresponsible would it be for Beverly, a medical doctor, not to be using contraception. Seems to me that if medical science had proceeded far enough to make having children into your 60s possible, they'd also have come up with a much simpler, more effective form of birth control that did not rely on condoms or a daily pill, doesn't it?

Unless, of course, folks are suggesting she was purposely trying to have a baby with Picard.

It doesn't sound to me like the baby was planned. I don't see a woman like Beverly making the effort to remain fertile in case she gets herself a man and start a whole new family with him.

This is the show that based a whole movie on time traveling to bring back a whale so it could let an advanced civilization know that things were still ok on earth and to not destroy everything, but R289 can’t suspend disbelief enough to accept that a woman of a certain age (who fell in love with a candle ghost at one stage) couldn’t get pregnant if she wanted to.

Guys, it's a TV show.

[quote]This is the show that based a whole movie on time traveling to bring back a whale so it could let an advanced civilization know that things were still ok on earth and to not destroy everything, but [R289] can’t suspend disbelief enough to accept that a woman of a certain age (who fell in love with a candle ghost at one stage) couldn’t get pregnant if she wanted to.

What many people don't understand is the reason sci/fi and fantasy fans get so riled up about "canon" is that the world of genre fiction need to operate on internally consistent rules - whether those worlds are based on the real world or not.

The more you violate those rules, the less believable those worlds become. Of course, they're not all 100% internally consistent and different people have different tolerances for what breaks are acceptable or not.

As for the whales, while it was a funny enough story, I despise time travel in most science fiction because it creates too many problems - The butterfly in The Sound of Thunder. Taking the whales out of their own time into the future is more likely to have caused huge problems with the timeline - if nothing else, when the two whales died, their bodies would have provided huge sources of food for countless sea creatures that multiplying the potential impact exponentially.

But, back to Beverly and sixty year old women giving birth. If it were just a small bit of information within the wider Trek universe, it could easily be ignored. However, Jack's conception and birth are seemingly gigantic plot points on which everything depends. His birth, his age, the appearance of the actor portraying him (34 playing 22), these all contribute to the dissolution of the coherence of the world. Any one thing might be overlooked, but it becomes more and more difficult to ignore - and draws more and more attention to itself until you finally reach a breaking point.

And yet, we're all likely to forgive if the rest of the story is engrossing enough. I mean, we all ignore that fact that Indiana Jones is virtually irrelevant to the outcome of the Raiders story (TBBT) because we enjoy it.

R293, louder for those in the back!

I'm enjoying the show so far so the 20 year old plot line isn't ruining it. It's just so obvious they could have easily made it more believable. It really is a self-own blunder.

[quote] The more you violate those rules, the less believable those worlds become.

Another vantage point: The more you obsessively calculate every detail of every scene, every line and every actor's expression, the more you will find to bother you and the less you will enjoy the story.

[quote]Another vantage point: The more you obsessively calculate every detail of every scene, every line and every actor's expression, the more you will find to bother you and the less you will enjoy the story.

Counterpoint: The details that would require some people to "obsess" over are blatantly obvious to some fans, so don't require any more effort than casual viewing.

For example, I don't know much about baseball, so couldn't remotely tell you about any of the intricacies of batting order, why it matters who is pitching, or whether the player on base should try to steal or the hitter bunt on any given pitch. Yet, actual fans, not even obsessed ones, can call out such suggestions and defend their opinions with little to know effort simply because they have been watching baseball since they were little kids.

^^^ with little to know

Okay, I'll "Oh, dear" myself for that.

Final point. The discussion of the details is part of the enjoyment.

I just saw an interesting take on what's going on with Jack:

As much as we're all tired of Wolf 359, slapping the audience over the head that Picard was assimilated isn't just another rehash. Perhaps, part of what's going on is that Jack's visions are somehow tied to Picard having been assimilated - some new facet of assimilation, perhaps from the Borg nanites that Jack got from Picard's sperm.

I'm also thinking that what got stolen from Daystrom was Lore and the holo cube with Moriarity - although why they'd want both those and Jack is harder to tell.

If they did steal the Moriarity holo cube, the Ten Forward holo discussion about separate power sources has even more importance and wasn't just a lantern they were hanging to explain why the Titan was out of power, but the holodeck was still working.

Boring !

Still no explanation of who is living as Vadic's hand?

As we just found out about its existence in this episode....

To the aspie on here obsessing, paragraph upon paragraph, about age, fertility, and every other tiny detail, just stop. You have NO IDEA what life will be like in 300 years. Do you think women will still actually be having monthly periods in 300 years? Of course they won't. Do you think easily delaying fertility won't be the usual practice for everyone, especially professional and military women building careers? It will. We're already doing these things now. Go look up the usual health of people 300 years ago. We've expanded not only fertility but doubled the average human life expectancy. Genetic engineering alone will recreate the entirety of our existence but you don't think it will extend human female fertility by a decade or two?

I believe McCoy was almost 140 years old in r288 picture with Data.

^^^^^^^And he sure looked it. If generic engineering makes for longer life spans, makes conceiving and giving birth in your 60s feasible, etc., then why in hell can’t they slow down the aging process in the future? No cure for baldness? Is cosmetic surgery still so bad after 300 years? How in hell can an android age?

They should have used CGI.

Yes, I get suspension of disbelief is essential with sci fi, but ffs, some little details like that just add up after a while. Yes, actors age as do we all, but it is jarring nonetheless.

I have to say, I've always found it funny how so many Star Trek fans view the shows as some kind of documentary rather than a piece of entertainment. It's a fucking TV show set in a fictional future filmed in present day.

[quote]To the aspie on here obsessing, paragraph upon paragraph, about age, fertility, and every other tiny detail, just stop. You have NO IDEA what life will be like in 300 years

From one of the so-called aspies discussing it, your utter failure to understand the concepts of fiction, fiction writing and world building, and that genre fiction not about prognosticating the future, but in looking at the consequences of such things on people.

Of course, it's about entertainment. As previously noted part of that entertainment is discussing the details of the story - what works, what doesn't, what is and is not realistic, what does and does not make sense in the context of the established fictional universe. When they break established rules or seem to violate common sense purely as a plot contrivance, it makes the story less interesting - deus ex machina.

R306 Oh have a fucking wank for gods sake.

Get a life!

Oh r307, you seem a lot more distraught about a discussion about a TV show - in a thread intended to discuss said TV show - than anyone else.

R306, is a parody or C-3PO having a queen shutdown

Confirmed: Vadic and her crew are ALL Changelings

What episode are we up to?

Confirmed by whom?

Also, we’ve seen her smoking. Changelings don’t have lungs.

Matalas.

I hate to be a nerd but I think of the TNG crew like family. The fact that I can see them together again after all these years brings tears to my eyes and brings back such good memories. That's all I can say at the moment,

R12 - fifth episode releases this week

Man people can get snippy and bitchy over anything on this board.

I take it you meant r312? I was not bitchy. However, I read all the threads and download the episodes to binge over a weekend. Hell, I am immune to spoilers as I have watched multiple episodes of every ST franchise.

So according the synopsis for this week's episode, a previously unannounced legacy character is going to appear....any guesses?

Q.

Every freaking time, a secret legacy character is announced, it is always John de Lancie.

Probably Geordi.

So, they're never going to bother to bring back Will Wheaton's Wesley? Is he really that hated?

Considering how popular the character and actor were on BBT, not bringing back Wesley would be an error.

[quote]So according the synopsis for this week's episode, a previously unannounced legacy character is going to appear....any guesses?

Rumor is that it's Ro Laren.

Is Whoopi going to be in this season?

Given how Wheaton's been acting in the Ready Room's I've watched, he's definitely excited enough to have already been included. Given Beverly Crusher is central this season, it follows he'll show up.

[quote]So, they're never going to bother to bring back Will Wheaton's Wesley? Is he really that hated?

He did a guest spot on the finale of season 2 where he takes the Issa Briones character to be a Traveler/Watcher.

If the rumor is Ro Laren, I'd be excited if it turned out to be true. She was an excellent character and Michelle Forbes was good. It was a pity they couldn't get her for DS9 as they had originally intended. Ro deserved a better ending than she got on TNG.

[quote]If the rumor is Ro Laren, I'd be excited if it turned out to be true. She was an excellent character and Michelle Forbes was good. It was a pity they couldn't get her for DS9 as they had originally intended. Ro deserved a better ending than she got on TNG.

I will always regret what could have been, but ultimately, we got Kira, a great character in her own right. And Forbes, who didn't want to be typecast as a Star Trek chick, has worked steadily since then and scored an Emmy nomination, so it worked out for her.

I will always be amused to remember that when she was on 24, Dennis Haysbert geeked out about getting to work with Ensign Ro.

As an actor, I can see not wanting to do Trek since the majority of them don't seem to get much work afterwards. Other than Patrick Stewart for whom Trek seems to have worked out well, none of them seem to work much outside Trek, except Alexander Siddig (Dr. Bashir).

If it's a previously unannounced legacy character, it must be someone from DS9 since it's the changelings. Martok would be a fun cameo. Now, what would really get the fanboys going would be Ezri Dax, Nicole de Boer, in command of a Vesta class starship.

However, most likely is Quark if I had to place money on it.

My dream is that this season spins off a DS9 based show.

[quote] He did a guest spot on the finale of season 2 where he takes the Issa Briones character to be a Traveler/Watcher.

Fuck. Must have missed that.

[quote]My dream is that this season spins off a DS9 based show.

That would be awesome. Ro Laren would be an awesome cameo but so would just about anyone from DS9. Appearances by Colonel Kira or Garak would blow my mind.

If they do a Seven based spinoff, I'd love for Ro Laren to be on it! Those two would but head...and ultimately fall in love, of course!

R320 We already know Geordi is [eventually] going to appear, but R318 is saying it's a previously unannounced legacy character. The rumor, as others have stated, is Ro Laren and given some hints Terry Matalas has dropped, that's where my money is.

R331 I have a feeling we're going to get a cameo from both a DS9 legacy character and a VOY character. Matalas, and people who have seen the whole season, has been hinting at this for months. I think the most likely candidates from DS9 are Kira, Quark or Ezri. Voyager will probably be Paris, Kim or Tuvok.

Don't know how 'butt heads' turned into 'but head' at R332 but whatever.

I'd rather have Janeway show up from Voyager. If fucking Kim show up, blech. They wanted to drop his character after the first season. Not sure what Paris would bring. Tuvok might be okay.

And, why would Quark or Ezri show up?? That would just seem stupid to me.

Maybe Quark, Ezri, and even Kira shows up because FINALLY Picard will have some reason to visit Station Deep Space 9 rather than some of the other damn space stations they've visited during this series. If that's the case, then maybe the show will follow some of the books canon and Ro Laren will have a Starfleet position at the DS9.

[quote]And, why would Quark or Ezri show up?? That would just seem stupid to me.

Quark - because we've seen his franchised bar a couple times and his being a bigger player makes sense since Rom became Grand Nagus. Quark is likely very wealthy and extremely well-connected to hearing criminal underworld rumors.

Ezri - because in non-canon books, the same ones that gave us the details of Riker's command (a contest for the books cover is where the Luna Class USS Titan first appeared), Ezri goes on to command an experimental quantum slipstream ship, the USS Aventine. Those books are extremely well-known and popular among the diehard trekkies. Voyager returned in 2378 - they've had 23 years to study all the technology they brought back and along with scans and schematics of things like the Dauntless. It would be surprising if they did not have some ships testing slipstream drives at this point.

It's been stated that Prodigy is the only place where Janeway and Chakotay will appear for now, so that they don't have to worry about conflicts.

In addition to Miles and Keiko's children being in their early 20s, Tom and B'Elanna's daughter would be roughly the same young-ensign age, like both La Forges, so it could also go that route if they wanted to be sneaky with their misdirects.

Best choice would be Ro, though.

I heard Rom gave up being Nagus to prefer a life of wild debauchery and hardcore sex.

Poor Leeta...

Here's the description of this week's episode:

[quote]Caught by Starfleet and facing court martial, paranoia grows as Picard struggles to uncover whether a prodigal crewman from his past has returned as an ally or an enemy hellbent on destroying them all.

Odds of it being Ro just went up a lot.

Be funny if it ended up being Nurse Alyssa Ogawa.

r339, I think you hit it. It's a good chance it'll be Nurse Ogawa. Right before or around the first episode of season 3 of Picard, there was a recent picture floating around of Gates McFadden and the actress who played Nurse Ogawa. Dr. Crusher and Nurse Ogawa had a great working relationship and Ogawa was a somewhat popular TNG character in her own right. The TNG episode she was featured the most in, Season 7's "Lower Decks" is widely considered to be one of TNG's best. I would be just fine if it's Nurse Ogawa.

It'll be Doctor Pulaski. She and Crusher will have a cat fight to rival anything Dynasty ever did.

If that's true r341, PLEASE have Dr. Crusher push that sour bitch Pulaski down a turbolift shaft.

If they’re bringing back Lore and Moriarty, then how about they bring back Minuet and have her present Riker with a holo-baby.

Hello Ro Laren.

You in danger GURL!

Really great episode.

We're at the halfway point and still no Geordi or Lore, very little Troi, too.

Is Troi being played by Patti LuPone now? The resemblance is striking.

Plot twist - Jack Crusher Jnr is actually Jack Crusher Snr from the future.

Michelle Forbes kicks ass. That’s all. That’s the tweet.

Pulaski was MUCH better than Crusher. She actually had a personality for a start. Much better actress too.

I let out a little squeal when I saw Michelle "Instant Gravitas" Forbes. I'll never forget the first time I saw her character on TNG, with charisma coming out of her ass. Nice to see that she's ageing gracefully. Sucks that they immediately took her away from us again, but TNG-verse as a whole is slowly wrapping up for good, so it's understandable.

The ADR on the transporter dude was rough. And someone needs to acquaint him with an actor's best friend -- the chapstick.

Lovely seeing Kirk Acevedo again, I had such a crush on him when he was on Oz and Fringe.

Episode 5 was FANTASTIC.

The conversation with Ro and Picard in the holodeck - perfect. Stewart has gotten to have two scenes, the first with Crusher, that allowed both of them to shine as actors.

Originally, I was worried the final season would be crap. Now, I'm worried that they won't land what is turning into an epic season. If the remainder of the season lives up to this episode's promse, I'll forgive the past two seasons.

Great episode.

It's a totally different show this season, as promised. Oh what could have been had this team of show runner/writers been involved from the beginning.

An aside, I love the closing credits showing the LCARS displays in detail - it really shows off the work of Mike Okuda and the design team, which has always been amazing from TNG onward.

[quote]It's a totally different show this season, as promised. Oh what could have been had this team of show runner/writers been involved from the beginning.

What bothers me a bit is that people are claiming that the reason "fans" like this season is that it's just a rehash of TNG that it's only because of the nostalgia for the old cast, as opposed to the better story and use of characters.

They aren't trotting out easter eggs and callbacks to replace story, but to further it. That was always the problem with the first two seasons - they used callbacks to give significance to insignificant things, rather than furthering the story. Bringing Hugh back first season should have been epic in terms of dealing with Picard's past. Giving us the scene between Picard and Seven's first meeting was what fans always wanted. It should have been as meaningful as the Crusher/Picard scene or the Ro/Picard scene. The first two seasons were so hit and miss, but would have been overlooked if the story had been there and if the showrunners had been more concerned about finishing his story, rather than putting their own stamp on Trek.

As far as the notion of Picard's "legacy" goes, I've always felt that he looked at Ro as a daughter and that is the betrayal he felt when she joined the maquis, a personal betrayal more than a starfleet or even commanding officer one.

[quote] Sucks that they immediately took her away from us again, but TNG-verse as a whole is slowly wrapping up for good, so it's understandable.

She went out like a badass and we got the closure we’d been waiting 29 years for. All things being equal, I’m as content as possible for her dying.

[quote] As far as the notion of Picard's "legacy" goes, I've always felt that he looked at Ro as a daughter and that is the betrayal he felt when she joined the maquis, a personal betrayal more than a starfleet or even commanding officer one.

In her last TNG episode, Riker even says that he thought she was at peace betraying Starfleet, but that she was distraught at having to betray Picard in the process. I thought the episode paid that off beautifully.

R349 I agree that Pulaski was written as a more interesting character than Crusher and had amazing potential. I think because Pulaski didn't have the same history with Picard, it allowed her to be more of a foil and just "tell it like it is." Personally, I also think Diana Muldaur was a better actress. Gates McFadden, and I do like her a lot, has a more theatrical "old Hollywood" acting style, while Muldaur was a television veteran and I knew how to act on camera in a more realistic, less hammy method. That being said, Beverly Crusher fit the chemistry of TNG far better than Pulaski part of that has to do with the fact many members of the TNG cast did not like Maldaur.

[quote]She went out like a badass and we got the closure we’d been waiting 29 years for. All things being equal, I’m as content as possible for her dying.

As much as I liked Ro and would have loved to have her continue in more Trek, I am as satisfied as I think it's possible to be with her dying with the tiny exception that I would have perhaps preferred just a bit more screen time because Forbes is such a good actress and a few more scenes with her would have been worth watching.

Watching it again, I was also happy that Forbes got equal billing as the other TNG actors.

I laughed at all the "special guest star" in the credits. Yes, yes, you're ALL special, darlings. Each and every one of you.

[quote]I laughed at all the "special guest star" in the credits. Yes, yes, you're ALL special, darlings. Each and every one of you.

In the tv shows, Guest Star and Special Guest Star are terms of art.

Technically only Stewart, Hurd, and Ryan are series regulars. All the others by virtue of being well known for their prior roles on TNG would have to be listed as Special Guest Stars.

[quote]A special guest star is someone the regular audience is likely to know from other well-publicized TV or movie roles. A guest star is someone appearing in tonight's episode only, in a significant role.

Fuck me I cried a bit at Ro's last scene. Now I want to watch all her tng episodes. I loved the one where she and LaForge were "dead".

What the heck is Jack crusher?

r359 Thanks for mansplaining that to me, but I know exactly what it means. It still looked ridiculous and I can just about see their agents arguing over who goes where before the contracts were signed.

Gods, but some Trekkies are so dour.

It's Trekkers, asshole.

[quote]I can just about see their agents arguing over who goes where before the contracts were signed.

They used an arcane formula called "The Alphabet."

Just watched the episode and they said that Ro was targeting the starboard nacelle of the Intrepid, yet she blew up the port nacelle?

Another great episode. It was nice to have closure on Ro's story from 30 years ago. Meanwhile, Worf is still a badass.

The conspiracy plot better amount to something interesting. So far, it's been kind of cliche.

Is Jack some kind of changeling?

[quote]Is Jack some kind of changeling?

As good as the story and season have been so far, the entire thing rides on the resolution to this question.

If all the cool stuff turns out to be Lost, GoT, or Battlestar Galactica where they just wrote a bunch of cool stuff, but then end up having written themselves into a corner where they have to pull something out of their asses to finish, it will be for nothing.

The point of the conspiracy and how Jack fits into it will ultimately determine how good this season turns out to be.

In-between the March madness games, I'll be rewatching this episode.

Great episode. I noticed they had Beverly's voice during one of Jack's flashbacks saying, "Jack, come home." What if Beverly isn't the real Beverly and all of this was a ploy to get Jack onto a Federation Starship and to gain Picard's trust. Something tells me Jack is really who he says he is but has been compromised with the Changlings putting something in him to become a weapon. Or the real Jack is mentally connected to this one in some way which is why he still seems human.

We shall see.

If you think about it, there are a lot of similarities between The Great Link and the Borg Collective. The red vines that that Jack keeps seeing engulfing people in his dreams looks a lot like assimilation.

[quote]What if Beverly isn't the real Beverly and all of this was a ploy to get Jack onto a Federation Starship and to gain Picard's trust.

If Beverly is involved, it makes some of her actions strange, like autopsy of the changeling. Why would she bring to light the fact that they can now pass the traditional blood test if she involved with them.

I wonder if the Borg could assimilate a changeling. I don't think the reminder of Wolf 359 by Shaw is simply random backstory for him. I think it's also to remind the audience of Picard's assimilation.

Loved seeing Ro again. Michelle Forbes was great, although what was with the horrible wig? I mean, that can’t have been her real hair?

I guess it’s still better than the Real Housewives of Starfleet hairstyle Seven and Beverly have. I’m sick of virtually every woman in Hollywood having the same hair.

R370 There is talk on Reddit that Michelle Forbes had to film all her scenes in two days due to her having other commitments (she was also filming New Amsterdam in NY at the same time). As such and due to covid restrictions they didn't have much prep time and Michelle had to be kept in a covid bubble...it's believed her bajor nose is actually CGI.

^ interesting, that would make sense. I noticed her nose ridges were barely noticeable at times. I’d also swear she was wearing a not very great looking wig. Maybe it was to avoid lengthy hairstylings.

I noticed her nose ridges weren't as pronounced as when she was on TNG.

They were really prominent when she first appeared, but they had toned them down by her final appearance. Same thing happened with Kira.

Well that was a fantastic and poignant episode. Glad I'm a weak man and continued to watch

[quote]Loved seeing Ro again. Michelle Forbes was great, although what was with the horrible wig? I mean, that can’t have been her real hair?

Yeah, the hair was odd. Her hair in pix from New Amsterdam seems fine. Why would they bother with a wig, rather than just styling her natural hair.

She apparently only had two days to film all of her scenes. And because she was shooting New Amsterdam at the same time, she had to be in a COVID bubble while on set. There's even thought that her Bajoran nose is CGI.

[quote]She apparently only had two days to film all of her scenes. And because she was shooting New Amsterdam at the same time, she had to be in a COVID bubble while on set.

You are suggesting that since she was in a covid bubble while on set, there were no makeup people available and her only option was a terrible wig? I can see her not being able to get the Bajoran nose ridges if no makeup people were available, but she couldn't comb her own hair into a better style than a bad wig provided?

R378 It’s not about people not being available - it’s about saving time. With so little time available, they wanted her on set shooting, not in a makeup or hair chair. A wig allowed them to style her hair without her being present. And no, they are not going to make an actress style her own hair on a major television show.

It was one of the worst wigs I’ve seen.

Here's a cool detail that I didn't know: Shaw is named after Robert Shaw from Jaws. They took inspiration from the USS Indianapolis monolog when he was talking about Wolf 359, and thought naming him Quint was too on the nose.

I’m wondering where Troi (aside from a couple of three second cameos) and Geordi are? Were the actors filming other things?

Marina moved back to the UK after her husband died.

R382 Terry Matalas confirmed in an interview this week that both Troi and Geordi arrive in episode 6.

If they are giving each TNG character a big role, Troi should be their ace in the hole for identifing changelings - you may be able to fool medical tests, but there's no way they should be able to fool a Betazoid.

I hope Troi gets more to do than she usually does.

Troi sounds so chavvy londoner in the few seconds she has been on this season. Can't recall thinking that when I watched tng.

Marina gradually gave up with the accent during the movies, her Voyager episodes, and now. She just kind of plays a (toned down!) version of herself now.

She'll have you EJECTED into SPACE for that, R387.

[quote]She'll have you EJECTED into SPACE

If they could work that into the show somehow, but done seriously, I'd be impressed - something like trapping a changeling in an airlock and having Troi quip: "Enjoy space" as she hits the airlock and ejects him.

THAT would be the easter egg of all easter eggs.

The “EJECTED INTO SPACE” line was such a delightfully MARY! moment. It’s so great it almost makes up for all the terrible Troi episodes we had to put up with before that.

[quote]If they could work that into the show somehow, but done seriously, I'd be impressed - something like trapping a changeling in an airlock and having Troi quip: "Enjoy space" as she hits the airlock and ejects him.

If only Terry Matalas was gay. That would guarantee it.

[quote]The “EJECTED INTO SPACE” line was such a delightfully MARY! moment. It’s so great it almost makes up for all the terrible Troi episodes we had to put up with before that.

I remember when "Nepenthe" first released (and whether you liked the first season or not, that episode was phenomenal), someone on SyFy.com wrote a wonderful article in praise of her.

"Nepenthe" was her best episode by a country mile, although I do have a lot of fondness for "Face of the Enemy" for obvious reasons.

Interesting piece of trivia, "Face of the Enemy" was originally supposed to be Dr. Crusher having been kidnapped and forced to pose as a Romulan, but during the drafting of the episode, the writers thought Deanna would be more interesting because she seemed the least likely of the characters to be put into an espionage situation.

I'm glad they changed it. No offense to Gates, but for the way the story is structured, it wouldn't have been nearly as good.

Marina is always proud to point out that "Face of the Enemy" got the highest ratings of any episode that season.

The campiness of space ejections aside, I like "Face of the Enemy" - it's a good episode.

I think it does work better with Deanna than it would have with Beverly. Deanna was also good in "Disaster" when she ended up the most senior officer on the bridge, much to Ro's chagrin.

You have a good episode AND you have Carolyn Seymour as the incredibly bitchy Commander Toreth. The camp doesn't ruin it, it flavors it.

Oh my!

Our dear Troi in danger! Will Worf be able to save her?

I knew they couldn't resist bringing Data back.

Nice seeing the Defiant and Voyager again.

Was that the Genesis Device on the Daystrum Station?

What do they want with Picard's human remains? Residual Borg implants??

I'm sure it will lead to the discovery of a cure for Jack's illness.

While epsiode 6 in isolation was a decent episode and I thought some of the story beat and interpersonal relationships were good, it overall left me concerned for the remainder of the series that it will fail to meet the left expectations it set.

I appreciate the easter eggs and callbacks as much as any Trek fan, but this one used them simply for the oooh-aaaah factor and not to further the story (as Ro's return did). Granted, a quick view of Voyager was good.

However, why wouldn't they take the Defiant's Romulan cloak that is more likely more compatible with Starfleet systems, not to mention being 100+ years newer and better.

The Genesis Device exploded with Khan. It was the only one - if there were another copy in the cavern facility, Khan would have simply taken it, rather than needing to grab the one the Kirk had.

Kirk's body - I'll let that slide because they very likely recovered it from Veridian III, and it does foreshadow that they had recovered Picard's body.

Having Moriarity return in such a small capacity seems purely for teaser trailers, but no real story purpose.

However, the biggest issue is Jack and Irumodic Syndrome. If that is the sole reason for his visions, the build up was too big. The Jack puzzle has had two prongs: 1) why do the changelings want him; 2) the visions. To me, the whole season rides on the mystery box of Jack. If they don't tie the visions back to Picard's body and why they want Jack, it'll ultimately be another example of Lost and BSG where they couldn't stick the landing.

No one else watched???

I thought this episode would be buzzing.

Voyager... the Defiant... Enterprise-A ...scary tribble

[quote]Nice seeing the Defiant and Voyager again.

Hearing the DS9 and Voyager themes played until the ship porn kind of caught in my throat, especially hearing Seven talk about Voyager being her home and the crew being her family.

Man, you TNG fans are getting spoiled like nobody's business. I wish we Voyager whores got the same treatment, but I'll take any crumbs I can get. I had a whole damn diatribe written in my mind already as I was scanning the space museum and there was no Voyager in sight. Then I saw its outline on Seven's console, GASPED homosexually, and had to compose myself to get ready for the actual reveal. The sleekest, most beautiful Trek ship ever.

Wasn't fully sold on Plummer up to this point, but she was just masterful in that intro. Had to rewind several times to admire her neck acting. The "PicaHHH" still makes me laugh, though.

Does any other show have as many odd line deliveries as this one? I swear these people pause at the weirdest times and stress the strangest parts of the sentence. Riker, Geordie, Beverly, Worf, Raffi... all guilty of it.

I felt so bad for laughing when Beverly said Jack had Space Alzheimer's. We really could've done without that. Is Troi's space rape baby gonna make an appearance as well?

Why was Geordie so ornery? I didn't like that.

[quote]Why was Geordie so ornery? I didn't like that.

You should watch The Ready Room after show with Wil Wheaton this week with Geordie and the two daughters. Burton explains Geordie's reaction which makes sense given the theme of this season.

With all the talk about family and children, where's Alexander. I don't need a cameo appearance, but would be nice to know where he is and what he's doing. In my head canon, for some reason I always envisioned Alexander running the equivalent of the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order for the Klingons under Chancellor Martok - the ostensible head of his family since Worf pledged fealty to House Martok.

The bit of Voyager theme when they showed the ship was nice. Seven talking about it really hit well - you could really feel Seven's longing to belong and feel family and home that she hasn't had since it returned from the Delta Quadrant and the crew disbanded.

Wheaton teases next week's Ready Room guest, but wouldn't reveal because it's a huge spoiler. I'm hoping for one as satisfying as Ro. It's got to be a big legacy character to warrant a Ready Room guest spot. Any guesses?

Damn, this episode went hard on the nostalgia and callbacks. Dozens of YouTube creators are probably preparing their "The 87,000 Easter eggs you missed from Star Trek Picard's sixth episode!" videos. Seeing the Enterprise A, the Defiant and Voyager, along with Seven's discussion of the latter, was lovely, as was hearing the themes from each.

I'm getting a little concerned about where this could all be leading, too. The buildup has been great so far, but this season could easily pull a "Lost" and blow it in the end. Why do the changelings want Picard's body? How does Jack fit in? Is Vadik just a changeling, or is there something more to her?

"Oh, Will."

My first thought was Deanna or changeling. While I know it's probably really her, given the trailers, you really have to wonder.

Why wouldn't they question Geordie, either? Seems like a huge security oversight, given what's happened so far.

I watched the previous episode a week ago and went to bed shortly afterwards. A few hours later, I woke up with a nasty stomach virus or food poisoning. In the early morning hours, when I was fighting the dry heaves, I kept dozing and dreaming about the changelings. The were all around me, had weird names, and when they caught me, I’d have to vomit 🤢.

I’m in my 50’s, and I can’t tell you the last time I had dreams like that. Bizarre.

[quote] Seeing the Enterprise A, the Defiant and Voyager, along with Seven's discussion of the latter, was lovely, as was hearing the themes from each.

There’s an even deeper pull. One of the ships is the NX-01, but having gone through a refit that was established in the beta canon, where an engineering section was put under the saucer. I’m not sure if that had been planned for a potential fifth season or not, but it was really cool to see it. They referred to it as Columbia-class.

This episode was okay but probably my least favorite of the season thus far. So why the fuck do the changeling want Picard's remains?

I’m sure it’s something Borg-related.

How many Borg implants can he still have after all this time? Why not just kidnap Seven if they're after that?

Anyone else laugh at how Discovery spent a full season battling an evil A.I. created by Starfleet, and here it's subdued by Worf with a floppy disk?

[quote]How many Borg implants can he still have after all this time? Why not just kidnap Seven if they're after that?

I mean, Seven was ultimately just Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01, a random drone. Locutus was special.

Didn't the Borg Queen later tell Seven she was handpicked by her to end up on Voyager? Or maybe she was just messing with her head when she said that, I don't know.

4 more episodes before I binge...

[quote]4 more episodes before I binge...

Why on earth would you read this thread if you planned on binging since we're basically discussed every reveal there is to be had so far?

R402 -- Sisko.

r413, Dear Gentle Spoilers Trekker,

I watch multiple episodes of multiple spinoffs DAILY, and many I have watched many times.

I cannot be spoiled. I watch for the acting and the writing. The twists and turns are expected. I am particularly fond of Daddy Frakes' beard.

This thread, gives me a heads-up on what to pay attention to. What to look for.

It's not like Usual Suspects. I don't expect, though I enjoy, big reveals, but I will watch them many times in endless repeats.

I like, as a binger, that I can watch all the Q/Delancy episodes in sequence. Do I know what's coming? Of course. Did I miss something, I will see.

I also get to be informed, watch, and watch again episodes that particularly move me emotionally. Picard's S2 episode, where his mother commits suicide, is particularly moving.

That's why I am here.

I don't see Avery Brooks returning to Trek.

Apparently Cirroc Lofton said he was open to it on his podcast. I’m skeptical, but…

[quote]I cannot be spoiled. I watch for the acting and the writing. The twists and turns are expected.

For many people. there is an ineffable quality that can never be recaptured when you see something for the first time that goes beyond being "spoiled" in the traditional sense of knowing big reveals before they occur.

If that doesn't appeal to you, that answers my question.

[quote]For many people. there is an ineffable quality that can never be recaptured when you see something for the first time that goes beyond being "spoiled" in the traditional sense of knowing big reveals before they occur.

Sad creatures.

[quote]If that doesn't appeal to you, that answers my question.

Question answered.

Seeing every castmembers name on the screen was worth waiting for.

I also have to add that the music this season has been outstanding.

Agreed. The music this season has been good. The one thing we're missing is the Ressikan Flute tune.

Someone did a full symphany verison.

R402 I'm going to say it's Janeway given the fact she's been referred to twice already. That being said, next week's episode is entitled "Dominion" so I'm thinking it's going to be a DS9 connection.

I hope it's the last cast Easter Egg of the season, they need to make all of these pieces they've assembled worthwhile and not just fan service, as enjoyable as that may be.

It had BETTER be Janeway pulling up on the fucking USS Protostar, guns blazing, fully in her infamous berserk Captain Ahab mode. I'm gonna be so pissed if she's isn't in any of the remaining episodes, it'll for sure leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I hope it’s Michael Burnham traveling in from the future to single handedly save the day.

It needs to be William Shatner’s Kirk.

They've made mulitple statements that Janeway and Chakotay will not appear in anything while Prodigy is still running in order to allow that show to tell it's story without needing to deal with potential conflicts from other shows - sort of makes you think that Chakotay dies at some point during Prodigy because we know Janeway is still alive.

[quote]It needs to be William Shatner’s Kirk.

They had Shatner's Kirk's body and Archer's body in Daystrom Station (frankly, a bit creepy they'd do that) along with Picard's. Who wouldn't want a Scott Bakula appearance, but we're running out of time for Shatner, so I wouldn't mind a blatant fan service cameo from him.

[quote] They had Shatner's Kirk's body and Archer's body in Daystrom Station (frankly, a bit creepy they'd do that) along with Picard's.

Daystrom is evidently run by a creepy collection-obsessed Star Trek fan.

I only saw The Shat's panel, when did we see Archer's body at Daystrom?

I would much rather see a live-action Admiral Janeway and Chakotay. I can't stand Prodigy (or Lower Decks for that matter).

I couldn’t stand Voyager. It’s Basic bitch Trek. There’s already enough representation with Seven, who was always the best thing about that show along with Robert Picardo.

TNG is too basic, DS9 too drawn out, ENT is a bit of both. But Voyager is perfectly balanced Trek, just like TOS.

[quote]I couldn’t stand Voyager. It’s Basic bitch Trek. There’s already enough representation with Seven, who was always the best thing about that show along with Robert Picardo.

[quote]TNG is too basic, DS9 too drawn out, ENT is a bit of both. But Voyager is perfectly balanced Trek, just like TOS.

Girls, girls, girls. You're both pretty in your own special way.

Each of the shows adds something interesting to Trek canon - that's actually the biggest complaint about NuTrek that it doesn't add much of interest and is too focused on using Trek as a vehicle to spout their nonsense, rather than telling a good Trek story.

R431 IMHO Voyager is the weakest (and occasionally laziest) written of the Berman era Trek shows (ENT is redeemed by Seasons 3 & 4), although when it got things right, it produced some of the most memorable episodes of the whole franchise. I think Voyager suffered from being both a network show & being seen as TNG's 'rightful' successor and as a result, never lived up to the potential of its premise and really just tried to be TNG 2.0. TNG eventually grew it's own identity free of TOS, DS9 away from TNG, but Voyager never did that. That being said, the show has actually aged fairly well. I think when it was on the air, it felt dated because even by the late 90s/early 00s the episodic nature of TV was already changing, but its episodic nature now allows you to watch random episodes easily.

Voyager suffers because the characters (with the exception of the Doctor and Seven of Nine) were never really allowed to evolve. Enterprise was at least a little more successful in that department, particularly with T'Pol.

That being said, I had a date night with one of my partners last night, and we ended up watching parts of "Caretaker." I had forgotten how hot young Garrett Wang was. He had this floppy mid-90s hair that totally worked on him.

The problem with Voyager was the writers didn’t really give a shit about their own characters, outside of Seven and the Doctor, both of whom were probably best at carrying a show (although Roxann Dawson was great and really deserved more). Janeway’s writing was horribly inconsistent; at times she was awesome then the next week she was fucking Irish peasants in the holodeck or bring hypocritical about whether they can/can’t violate the prime directive or whatever.

The thing was, Braga and the writers basically wanted high concept stories and didn’t care about developing the characters and their relationships. They did create some really good episodes that way, but without the through-line of consistent character development, the show was always less than the sum of its parts. Mind you, TNG wasn’t leagues better character wise. It got away with a lot (or, often, coasted) by virtue of its iconic status and runaway success.

Went to ComicCon today and met Frakes and McFadden. Very nice people.

Met Nana Visitor, too. She was so tiny and adorable. Actually that was the first thing I told her and she started blushing! A really cool chick.

[quote]The thing was, Braga and the writers basically wanted high concept stories and didn’t care about developing the characters and their relationships.

The actual thing with Braga is that he's not nearly as creative or talented enough to come up with interesting "high concept" stories and unable to develop characters and their relationships. You say it like it was some sort of personal choice, rather than personal limitation or failing.

R352, how so, asshole? And why is he an asshole for using the term Trekkies?

Stop trying to be trendy. This topic is the antithesis of that.

I meant 362. Apologies to r352.

DoG always has fantastic reviews and insights. An interesting one here.

I've heard that the success of Picard season 3 may be leading to a new legacy Star Trek series with the same showrunner (Terry Matalas). I'd love to see a continuation of the voyages of the starship Titan, with Captain Shaw at the helm

Strange New Worlds renewed for third season, second season premieres June 15.

Lower Decks renewed for fifth season, season four premieres this summer.

Good news R443. Both great shows I look forward to watching (and rewatching).

Third season of SNW is already filming, so we're definitely getting yearly releases, which is nice. LD premieres in late summer.

The rumor is that Paramount is likely to reduce the number of Treks and spread them out further to reduce costs.

SNW seems relatively safe. Picard and Disco are ending and are likely only going to be replaced by one new live action. Lower Decks seems likely to continue, but Prodigy likely won't after the second season - subject to numbers, of course.

They'd be foolish not to continue with this LEGACY idea.

Streaming numbers for PICARD s3 are through the roof and fans are clamoring for more.

Also, don't forget to wish Marina a happy birthday today otherwise she'll have you...we'll, you know.

Hey fans! Get ready for Star Trek: Burnham!!! Captain Burnham will teach those old dogs new tricks while single-handedly saving the universe every week!

^ I would live for that just to see a certain section of the fandom utterly implode!

[quote]Hey fans! Get ready for Star Trek: Burnham!!! Captain Burnham will teach those old dogs new tricks while single-handedly saving the universe every we

While I dislike Disco, some of the criticisms are absurd - as if Picard, Kirk, and Sisko didn't save the universe singlehandedly almost each week for 26 weeks a year for seven years.

The pity of Disco is that Sonequa Martin Green is actually a decent actress and could have been fantastic if given the right material. Disco was an utter failure in storytelling and character development, more focused on "liv(ing) that just to see a certain section of the fandom utterly implode!" than a good show.

They took pride in some foolish notion of "subverting expectations" (without actually knowing what that means from a storytelling perspective) than anything else. They didn't want to tell a good story as much as they wanted to stick it to long-time fans.

Picard this season isn't successful because they wheeled the TNG cast out of retirement. It's successful because they are telling a better story, telling it well (so far), and actually developing characters, even when those characters have been known by fans for 30+ years.

Not to mention giving every TNG alum their moment to shine.

This is the Trek work Gates and Frakes have ever done and Matalas is promising a huge role for Marina as she is the one who it "all rests upon."

Just as well. If the writers and producers hadn’t lined something decent for Troi in the final episodes, Sirtis would not have hesitated to eject them somewhere…well, spacious.

Don’t think she wouldn’t do it.

Does Marina Sirtis know that the line "I could have you EJECTED into SPACE!!" (just because of how hysterically she delivers it) is a camp classic?

I'd feel so bad if she did know that since that's by far her favorite episode (very understandably). The rest of that episode is so good--that's the only campy moment (well, except for when she dramatically points to her Tal Shi'Ar insignia and says "THIS! gives me the right!").

Yes, R455, she is totally aware of it.

I had a professional photo op with her where it looks like we're on the bridge of the Enterprise-D and she has me in a chokehold with my tongue hanging out.

She wrote the "ejected" line along with her signature.

She's great fun in real life.

Of course she's aware, lol. She recreates it for a laugh all the time at conventions.

I havent seen people comment much on that particular line outside of DL. I love the way she goes full-on Avery Brooks overdrive at points in that episode. It’s glorious. I can’t think of a single other decent Troi episode. There’s the Dorian Gray type episode, where she gets to overact gloriously as well, but it’s not a good episode otherwise (evil women must automatically be hypersexual, yawn). It’s worth it I guess when she sits through a counselling session and her response confirms that evil Troi would fit in quite well on DL.

[quote] I can’t think of a single other decent Troi episode

“The Loss,” the one where she loses her powers. The story worked so well, the producers actually considered keeping her that way.

Aside from “Face of the Enemy” and “Nepenthe,” it’s her best episode. I also love her part of “Disaster,” but that’s an ensemble piece.

R459 I didn’t like “The Loss” at all, I’m afraid. I found Troi without her powers horribly unsympathetic, narcissistic and condescending. I know it was intended as a disability allegory but the writing and acting just utterly failed to move me. I almost wish the other senior officers had ejected Troi into space just so the episode would end. Beverly would have got to press the “eject” button, of course. With glee.

I liked The Child. Rare good s2 episode.

Also the one where she tests for a promotion to full Commander, though it was a b-plot.

Also the murder mystery one where she thinks she killed Worf in a jealous rage.

^ I found that episode so dull (I really disliked much of that last season though). Marina didn’t do the whole breakdown thing at all well. I remember finding the climax where she goes hysterical unintentionally funny.

[quote]Also the murder mystery one where she thinks she killed Worf in a jealous rage.

Are you talking about Eye of the Beholder where some sort of empathic impression caused the one guy to throw himself into a warp core?

^That's the one

Bummer, no Troi or Riker but TUVOK (kinda).

This week was LeVar's chance to shine and he was fantastic.

Nice Vadic backstop.

I think it is pretty apparent now Jack is part Changeling.

Damn, they keep teasing Janeway.

I didn't appreciate waiting anxiously all week to see my girl Commander Deanna Troi and leaving me hanging for another week. For the short time they've shown her this season, I need to see her do something bad ass between next week and the end of the series. Her season one episode with Will and their daughter was one of the best episodes of the whole series and that was mainly because of Marina Sirtis' performance. Fuck the Deanna haters.

I think it is pretty much a given the final episode will occur during Frontier Day and Mulgrew will be back.

They just tease her too damn much.

I'd still like to see a Niner pop up this season. Worf really doesn't count.

Aside from Tuvok's cameo, this week's episode was a bit shit.

I didn't think so at all, R469. Beautiful scene with Burton trying to reach Data paralleled with Crusher debating throwing her ethics out the window to save. Two very different approaches by two parents desperate to protect their children. It was powerful.

Random thoughts:

- I'm glad they showed Shaw moving, so we know he's not dead (yet). I like Shaw. While I don't necessarily want or need him to be in a followup series, killing him at this point would be gratuitous and melodramatic.

- Tuvok - is he dead? I'm going to stick to the classic trope that there's not body, so he's not dead. It actually made perfect sense to me that they'd be reaching out. The people that Picard can trust are already involved, so reaching out to Seven's trusted group is the logical next choice since Worf isn't there to reach out to his DS9 friends. I would have preferred if the testing had gone both ways and been just a bit more fun with Voyager deep dive references. Seven reached out, but if their story is true, it could just as easily have been Seven who was the imposter trying to further their criminal undertaking by suckering Tuvok.

- Jack. The more magical and mystical his powers, the less likely he's going to "survive" the season finale. Even if he's still alive at the end, if he's some Kwisatz Haderach being, they'll still permanently write him out.

- Interesting comment that Picard's Irumodic Syndrome may have been misdiagnosed. The anomalous reading which led to that diagnosis must either be the result of his assimilation or Q (Q already gave Riker Q powers. Perhaps all the Q are dying, so he decided that he wanted to plant something that would eventually evolve humans into Q thousands of years when they're ready for that kind of power - Twist: timey wimey - that's how the Q originally evolved). I'd guess it's assimilation because there's a reason that they keep reminding us of the Borg with Wolf 359 and First Contact music.

- Hiding in the wreckage from the Battle of Chin'Toka was a nice touch easter egg. Now, a truly epic easter egg would have been to see the wreckage of the original Defiant.

They better have Troi eject someone into space, or else!!!!

Tuvok! That was unexpected.

Loved the Tuvok cameo. At the start of the season, I was ambivalent toward a Janeway appearance, but now I'm hoping it happens in the end. Levar's acting in his speech to Data was fantastic. This was a setup episode for the rest of the season, but it hit its plot points well and pushed the story forward in an interesting way.

I'm really shocked at how much I'm enjoying this season. I keep waiting for it to screw something up, but it hasn't yet. It's not just seeing the old characters again -- it's that the story itself is compelling.

[quote]I didn't appreciate waiting anxiously all week to see my girl Commander Deanna Troi

How sure are you that it was Troi on the Shrike and not a changeling impersonator?

If Amanda Plummer says [Italic]Picargggggghhhh[/Italic] one more time I'm hunting her down for a vicious face slapping.

If Amanda Plummer says [Italic]Picargggggghhhh[/Italic] [Bold]one more time[/Bold] I'm hunting her down for a vicious face slapping.

Hmm. So much for that.

I swear I heard Riker pronouncing his name PICARRH at one point last week. Maybe I’m delirious.

Is it me, or does Jordi now have an air of self importance that he didn't have in TNG? The permanently raised eyebrow, the Shatner-like pausing after every few words spoken...

He's rubbing me the wrong way. I still remember you from Electric Company Levar! Cut it the fuck out!

It was Reading Rainbow, not Electric Company. EC was Morgan Freeman, I think.

I rewatched TNG the other year and found that Geordi actually could be a bit of a dick at times. Especially with women (gaslighting Leah Brahms for being rightly pissed at his holodeck shenanigans) and initially bullying Barclay in his first episode. He could be cranky and just a bit off.

[quote](gaslighting Leah Brahms for being rightly pissed at his holodeck shenanigans)

Well, but she probably married him anyway.

The way I screamed when I saw Tim Russ and heard the Voyager theme, then sighed with relief along with Seven when Tuvok was revealed to be Tuvok, and then freaked out seconds later with that dolly zoom pulling the rug under me, only to learn the real Tuvok is being tortured as I type... What a journey this episode took me on in that one minute.

Janeway is a lock for a cameo now and I could not be more excited. One final live-action appearance, they better make it count.

[quote]I'd still like to see a Niner pop up this season. Worf really doesn't count.

Honestly? At this point, I think of Worf as a DS9 character.

Russ revealed on Twitter that he filmed 2 episodes this season so... TUVOK LIVES!

[quote]Russ revealed on Twitter that he filmed 2 episodes this season so... TUVOK LIVES!

Or, after finding that Tuvok was killed, Seven confronts the changeling who was impersonating him and decides NOT to kill it unlike when she disintegrated the woman who killed Icheb (as a demonstration of "growth" from who she was in the first season).

Seeing a reunion when Seven saves a beaten and battered Tuvok would be incredible.

Chakotay is lost in the future per Prodigy, so who else of the Voyager crew could we get aside from Tuvok? I know Wang would come running if called. McNeill and Dawson are directors now. I'd die if Picardo or Phillips showed up. Can you imagine if it ends up being Jennifer Lien?

Is there any particular reason we're not getting more DS9 cameos?

Neelix is back in the Delta Quadrant

Oh yeah, right. I keep forgetting about that!

[quote]Chakotay is lost in the future per Prodigy, so who else of the Voyager crew could we get aside from Tuvok? I know Wang would come running if called. McNeill and Dawson are directors now. I'd die if Picardo or Phillips showed up. Can you imagine if it ends up being Jennifer Lien

I think the choices are Tuvok, Harry, or the Doctor. Neelix is still in the Delta Quadrant with the Talaxians - and no mention has been made in Picard that quantum slipstream drives or transwarp coils / hubs have been developed beyond what Voyager brought back. I could see the Doctor, given what that there is some medical issue with both the changelings and Jack at play.

The big thing at play right now is fleet day - it gives a huge opportunity for several legacy characters since the entire fleet will be there. It could be anyone who is still in Starfleet who might "help" when the moment comes. If they go for a fist pumping moment, several old friends could warp in on ships to give a helping hand. As corny as it sounds, can you imagine a scene similar to the ending of Picard first season where four or five ships come warping in and beloved characters announce themselves ready to lend a hand?

[quote]I could see the Doctor, given what that there is some medical issue with both the changelings and Jack at play.

Yes! Perfect excuse to show us some Picardo.

[quote]As corny as it sounds, can you imagine a scene similar to the ending of Picard first season where four or five ships come warping in and beloved characters announce themselves ready to lend a hand?

One with Mulgrew and one with Brooks. I know it'll never happen, but just imagine. Maybe even Bakula and The Shat warping in from the past. The ultimate fan service.

[quote]One with Mulgrew and one with Brooks. I know it'll never happen, but just imagine. Maybe even Bakula and The Shat warping in from the past. The ultimate fan service.

You'll enjoy this cutscene from Star Trek Online.

Finally caught up and while I’m still enjoying it, the plot is starting to stretch a bit thin and I’m starting to be over the mystery behind Jack. Liked the scenes between Picard and Beverly although I was missing Worf and Raffi and wondering why they didn’t cut back to Riker and Troi at all.

Also feels this is essentially a DS9 story switched with TNG characters. It would benefit from at least an appearance by Bashir, or O’Brien, who were actually involved in uncovering the Changeling virus plot. As DS9 was my favourite show, aside from TOS, I feel a little disappointed that way. But there’s still time.

[quote]Finally caught up and while I’m still enjoying it, the plot is starting to stretch a bit thin and I’m starting to be over the mystery behind Jack.

This episode definitely felt like a filler to stretch to 10 episodes. Also, it was a "bottle" episode, so I'm betting they were trying to save money (hopefully for a spectacular finale). Not having Raffi, Worf, or Troi probably saved them some money, as well. It was definitely weaker than episodes 4-6.

Oddly, the problem with Bashir and O'Brien is they detract from Crusher and Geordi. Tuvok doesn't. Kira wouldn't, but she would not be as well connected to Starfleet senior officers which was why they were reaching out in the first place - Geordi's dialog suggests they had done it a bunch of times with the same result.

Too bad Rene Auberjonois (RIP) is no longer around. HE would have been a mindblowing cameo. I'm still hoping for Salmone Jens and Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun 9 - they can say that Weyoun 8 was the "last" one in the Alpha Quadrant but they had more in Delta).

[quote]Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun 9 - they can say that Weyoun 8 was the "last" one in the Alpha Quadrant but they had more in Delta).

Gamma Quadrant

^^^oops. Had Voyager on the brain.

Shinzon to Picard: I thought you'd be taller.

Vadic to Jack: I thought you'd be taller.

The knife Vadic uses to cut-off her hand is a replica of Shinzon's knife (the Reman viceroy carried one as well when he boarded Enterprise).

Odo was one of 100 changelings sent out into the galaxy - like Laas. If Odo ended up in the Federation in Starfleet's hands, it's possible another, like Vadic, ended up in Romulan or Reman hands. We're assuming that Vadic was captured during the Dominion War, but we don't see any of changelings captured. There are few changelings on this side of the wormhole.

Perhaps, Vadic was captured or stolen from the Romulans/Remans and the "family" she lost wasn't the other changelings, but her adopted Romulan/Reman family or...Shinzon himself. She certainly doesn't have the "no changelings have ever killed another changeling" philosophy that was a high crime committed by Odo, so it isn't a generic view of all changelings as family.

R495, Odo was CGI'd so much that replicating an Odo appearance would not be difficult.

The whole season is like an extended TNG movie sequel after Nemesis in 2002 and I couldn't be happier. I never thought I'd be able to revisit these characters again all together. I can die in peace now. Make it so.

[quote]There are few changelings on this side of the wormhole.

We learned that at least the year prior to the Dominion War, there were four Changelings on Earth, as well as at least one on Qo'Nos (the one impersonating Martok).

[quote]The whole season is like an extended TNG movie sequel after Nemesis in 2002 and I couldn't be happier. I never thought I'd be able to revisit these characters again all together. I can die in peace now. Make it so.

This season has been a much better send off than any of the movies, even the ones I liked.

Another spectacular episode.

Nice shout out to Yar and I was thinking at that moment when Lore was taking his memories, what about Spot and sure enough that was his most treasured memory who taught him how to love.

I was never a huge Data fan but loved his interactions with Spot. Especially after the Ent-D crashed and he discovered Spot had survived and he started crying.

Ok...gotta grab a tissue.

Also when they all gathered around the table...very emotional.

Ok...and Worf letting his feelings out Deanna... Well shit, Riker too...

Really, really spectacular episode!

This episode made me want to get a cat. 🥺

What the fuck is behind that red door?! The Prophets?

I admit I spent most of the episode waiting for Mulgrew to pop up. Better be in the next episode, not much time left.

I'm assuming the last 2 episodes will occur during Frontier Day and we'll get lots of cameos.

Im still holding out hope Sela is the face.

^ no to Sela, Denise Crosby really didn’t have the acting chops to pull that role off the first time around and I doubt it’d work much better now.

Anyone who tells you that Spot made me tear up is a lying liar.

As TNG wore on, I got really sick of Brent Spiner insisting on doing so much actor-y stuff with the whole playing of multiple characters, but he knocked this episode out of the park.

Great episode for Troi. I only wish they’d given us what we want, and had her be the one to have Vadic EJECTED into SPACE.

I'm guessing we're way past the "waiting for the season to go off the rails" that plagued the first few episodes?

This is Trek at its finest. Everyone gets to shine and still move the plot along. Very DS9esque.

How could they have ejected Vadic into space and NOT have Troi be the one to call it - although Deanna calling out "imzadi" was hilarious.

I guess we’re back to Spot being Star Trek’s first trans character, because Data referred to “him” despite Spot becoming female randomly in the 6th season.

Spot's kittens saved the crew from being Neanderthals, monkeys, frogs, lemurs...

Another great episode. I'm really hoping the last two episodes stick the landing and give the cast a proper sendoff. Seeing them sitting around a conference table discussing the mission at hand made me strangely emotional.

I enjoyed the episode, but it did have some of the clumsiest dialog writing of the season. "We'd need an asynchronous AI matrix capable of computational speeds beyond 90 trillion operations per per second." Really? Technobabble worthy of bad fan fic.

I'm seeing more and more people saying that somehow Jack is Pah-Wraith and Gul Dukat is the big bad floating head. I'm conflicted because I think that Vadic getting ejected into space and shattering was a bit anti-climactic, but I cannot see where they could have gone with her after this episode - not that a return of Mark Alaimo wouldn't be appreciated.

Apparently, the fact that Jack spent some time on Bajor - enough to have a warrant for his arrest - was hint. What I am now praying is that there isn't some sort of Pah-Wraith vs. Q "eternal war" that is at the heart of this since Picard has always been a favorite of the Q in a similar way to Sisko being the Emissary.

Why would Picard's body have a Pah-Wraith in it.

The only ones to inhabit the Pahs were Dukat and Jake Sisko, I believe.

Marc Alaimo would presumably only agree to come back to Trek if his character got to have sexytime with Kira.

[quote]Why would Picard's body have a Pah-Wraith in it.

Exactly. It doesn't make a lot of sense although the clues are starting to lean in that direction. How the irumodic syndrom anomaly fits into that is also questionable.

But, since episode 8 hit, more and more of the fan discussions have started leaning toward Pah-Wraith from some Borg/changeling thing.

Personally, all I care about is that it ties together in a reasonably coherent fashion and I don't have to suspend significantly more disbelief than I do for warp engines or other previously established world building.

If they do that without a second significant DS9 character appearing, I would be miffed.

Like I said, I consider Worf a DS9 character at this point, but we need Sisko or Kira if they’re going for Pah Wraiths.

[quote]If they do that without a second significant DS9 character appearing, I would be miffed.

Wouldn't the return of Alaimo's Dukat count as a second significant character?

Sisko is not going to happen, but Kira or Bashir are possible. Of course, as I DLer, I want Garak who is clearly one of us.

Marina Sirtis has aged in a way that makes her seem perpetually sad. It tracks with that of a bereaved mother.

Yeah, she's starting to get that Jeannie Berlin look.

I’m sure finding her husband dead in bed didn’t help. COVID lockdowns happened right after Star Trek: The Cruise in 2020 and they had a bunch of Trek actors record a video encouraging people to stay home.

From Marina’s segment, it was painfully obvious how sad and lonely she was. She was putting on a brave face, but it broke my heart.

I’ve found Marina can come across abrasive and diva-ish at times, but I was really sorry to hear about her husband. I think I saw that video clip you mentioned and my heart really went out to her.

This image just says it all.

I'm taking bets on whether Data whistles the Pop Goes the Weasel ending that he was unable to do in Encounter at Farpoint in order to put an exclamation point on how he's so different now.

Geeesh! They could have just had Vadic chew her way through the Titan to find Jac. I'm amazed there was a piece of scenery left intact. If they give out Razzies for TV, Plummer should win them all. What a hambone.

[quote]In the epic, thrilling conclusion of STAR TREK: PICARD, a desperate message from a long-lost friend draws Starfleet legend Admiral Jean-Luc Picard into the most daring mission of his life, forcing him to recruit allies spanning generations old and new. This final adventure sets him on a collision course with the legacy of his past and explosive, new revelations that will alter the fate of the Federation forever.

Hmmmmm...

Any guesses who will pop up?

I will never forgive Mulgrew for as long as I live if she said no to a cameo.

I also do not envy the person cleaning up the splooge after this IMAX screening.

R527 Terry Matalas has said a few times now that there will be no Janeway cameo because at present, Janeway's story rests with Prodigy. This could be misdirection, but I doubt Mulgrew would've said no if she were asked.

So that was all sorts of awful. I was expecting something fresh but no, it's the fucking Borg again. The whole thing was so convoluted, like fanfic you'd read on Tumblr, with everything but the kitchen sink thrown at us. I'm starting to be glad Mulgrew said no to this.

Only bright spot was the final scene, with the pensioners going on one last adventure. Every room on the ship had the lights on for some reason because why the hell not at this point.

NO, NOT THE FUCKING BORG!!! {sarc}

Cue Delancy in 10, 9, 8...

God they totally wasted Shaw as a character. He was SO GREAT the first few episodes.

I'm just ecstatic Alice Krige is back as our rightful Queen.

Poor Shelby.

Majel!!!!

R531, agreed. Shaw had great potential, but they discarded him to make room for all the nostalgia. At least if they'd kept him alive, they could have used him in another property.

Only one episode left and a lot to tie up.

Jack and the Queen

The Changeling imposters

Earth invasion

I cried. I'll have more thoughts later.

While I loved Annie Wersching's Queen last season, no one will ever top Alice Krige.

The way she recites her dialogue is like a seductive melody.

I met her last year at a horror show and she was beyond fabulous and adorable. Got a pic with her where she stuck her fingers in my neck like she was assimilating me.

Pure gay heaven!!!

Marina's availability must have been really limited. There were a bunch of group scenes she should have been in but wasn't.

Turns out, they weren't ignoring Majel Barrett's digitized voice. They were just saving it until it really counted.

Bummed about Shaw, but I always figured his exit line would include "Seven of Nine."

Give Terry Matalas his Legacy show, please and thank you.

[quote]Marina's availability must have been really limited.

By what? Illness? What other projects has she got going on?

[quote]By what? Illness? What other projects has she got going on?

Living on the other side of the world, I would assume. I'm assuming they were still operating under fairly strict pandemic rules, since this was filmed back to back with S2.

Oh, I didn't know this was filmed back then.

There was no need to kill Shaw. I'm hoping he's not dead dead.

Alice Krige - I thought that was her voice.

I liked the Shelby cameo and the irony of her of all people being gung-ho on a fleetwide collective.

Who is Vadic's floating head guy? There is a huge problem if they don't resolve that.

So, they needed Jack to accomplish the bio-assimilation and control the people, so Jack went running to them and gave them what they needed - the implication being that the plan would not have worked without him.

Holy fucking shit. The Enterprise F. Admiral Shelby. Alice Krige as the Borg Queen again. The NX-01 reference. The Excelsior.

Did you notice one of the ships was named the USS Hikaru Sulu?

But seeing the Enterprise D again, with the crew back at their stations on the old bridge set (which looks beautiful), and Majel's voice ... damn, that hit hard.

R542 Yup saw the USS Hikaru Sulu there was also an comm reference to the USS Pulaski!

Regarding Marina's participation:

Season 3 was filmed from September 2021 to March 2022. Marina didn't join in filming until early 2022. Based on things Terry Matalas and Jeri Ryan have said on SM, Marina, who now lives in the UK, didn't want to commit to six months in the US particularly as COVID restrictions were in place at the time. So it appears Marina was only on set for the last month or so of filming. I've read, but not sure it's true, that they basically went back on shot of a lot of her scenes retroactively when she arrived and that her first day on set was for the conference room scene at the end of episode 8.

This is a great storyline and even though Borg related, the evolution of their assimilation tech/biology was a great direction to go in. Janeway set them back tremendously with the destruction of the transwarp conduit at the Voyager series end, did you really think they'd go gentle into that good night?

Anyway, I'm typing this as i cry tears of nostalgia. This entire season has been a love letter to us TNG elders. What a ride!

My husband actually turned to me and said "Imagine if they'd written Deanna this well during the series."

[quote]Who is Vadic's floating head guy? There is a huge problem if they don't resolve that.

I think it is pretty obvious now that it was the Borg Queen.

Go back and watch...floating head speaks very much like the Queen and when she threatens Vadic, etc.. "Your species by nature is malleable..."

Shawn’s death scene was awful. He stands up while there are enemies shooting and keeps turning his back on them to scream at someone (Picard) to get inside. Pretty sure one of the first rules of battle is don’t make yourself a huge target like that unless you have an insane death wish. He was a captain for crying out loud, not a red-shirt ensign.

**Shaw, not Shawn

Elizabeth Dennehy is officially 62. I'm surprised she looked so....severe.

Do you think Patrick Stewart thinks this season was good?

For most of them, it’s the best material their characters have gotten. I wonder what he actually thinks of it.

Given that he was involved in screwing up the first two seasons with his character "input," I'll bet he had little to do with the writing on this one. Also, although the season has been stellar, I don't think he's been doing all that much, and what acting he has done has been kind of wooden. He did a lot of scrunching up his face in odd grimaces there for a bit.

I should add that Stewart's acting this this episode was superb.

R550 Elizabeth Dennehy looks like a 62 year old white woman who hasn't had any work done.

I think the season, while probably the best thing the Star Trek franchise has put out in... maybe since the end of TNG? ... has two to three episodes worth of pointless filler. They also needed to streamline a lot of it, and work out a lot of the illogical kinks in the plot lines

[quote]I think the season, while probably the best thing the Star Trek franchise has put out in... maybe since the end of TNG?

How utterly ridiculous. Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, Lower Decks, Voyager, even most of Enterprise are all miles better than this.

This season is all convoluted plots -- I still don't understand the Borg-Changeling plan -- and fan service. Nothing wrong with that, but this isn't core Trek at all. Let's be real, it's a warm trip down memory lane, nothing more.

It’s fun to watch but JFC, the borg?!

I get more fun out of reading this thread and seeing all you fangirls choke up. So warm and fuzzy.

[quote]Who is Vadic's floating head guy? There is a huge problem if they don't resolve that.

[quote]I think it is pretty obvious now that it was the Borg Queen.

While I get that it's probably supposed to be true, it doesn't make any sense. How exactly did the Borg Queen punish Vadic they way she did when communicating? When did the Borg become shapeshifters such that they could take the form of her hand?

The floating head guy is a poorly done misdirect from whom you would always draw wrong conclusions and could never have guessed correctly - the definition of bad writing.

I think I’ve posted about him before, but I like the TrekCulture recapper Seán Ferrick (a cute Irish cub who runs a mostly-gay, somewhat bi Trek-themed porn OnlyFans in his off time). Their video about this episode was great.

I went looking for the TrekCulture video last night and it wasn't out yet. Thanks, VotN.

I'm a little confused by this latest episode.

I thought at the end of the last season, Picard's blonde little autistic chickie got turned into the new Borg Queen and she transformed them into peaceful people who were partial members of the Federation.

Now they show up again as scheming, mysterious enemies?

We’ve seen the main Borg cut off troublesome upstarts before, as with the cube Hugh was on that Lore took over in “Descent.”

Jurati's Borg collective is supposed to be a friendly neighborhood offshoot of the original Borg. They're guarding some portal against some as yet unknown threat.

I'm torn. Yes, the frigging Borg again, but I also am interested to see Jack Crusher's hot ass showing up in one of those leather forced transformation bondage fetish outfits.

I'm just hoping it ends with Ol' Baldy and maybe a few others finally buying the farm.

And where the hell is Admiral Janeway? They keep mentioning her name, but she won't show up. Mulgrew will do voice parts these days, but hasn't been seen onscreen in ages.

Terry Matalas has said consistently that Prodigy has Janeway (and Chakotay) on lock. Maybe it's a misdirection, but...

I know I've said this before, but the music in this episode was just OUTSTANDING. The score starting with their first glimpse of the D wove in the TNG theme, snippets of the themes from First Contact, Generations, and even Nemesis, and then ending with Sandy Courage's TNG theme. I hope if nothing else Paramount pushes the composer for awards recognition. It would be well deserved.

R565 What does that mean? Paramount won't allow Kate Mulgrew to appear on two shows at once?

Of course they've got Beltran nailed down for Chakotay's part. The dude hasn't had paying work since Voyager ended.

Not the end for Shaw...

From an interview with Screen Rant:

[quote]Terry Matalas: No, this was always Shaw's journey. But should there ever be a spin-off — and let me be clear THERE IS NOTHING IN DEVELOPMENT AT PARAMOUNT — but should one day the stars align, there was a plan from Day One for Todd as Shaw to be a part of it. How, you ask? It's AMAZING. And that's all I will say. And every time Todd and I talk about it, we get chills. And no, it is not a cop-out. It's kinda incredible and moving and fresh, and I hope one day we get to do it.

They offered Beltran a guest spot last season as Pres. Hanson's husband but he turned it down so Jon Jon Briones ended up doing it.

Apparently numbers for this season are incredibly high and Paramount has set a record for itself with viewers. Jeri Ryan was posting about it on Twitter.

I wannabe spitroasted by Shaw and Spike.

You know both those guys throw a mean fuck.

Oops, Pike not Spike!

[quote]They offered Beltran a guest spot last season as Pres. Hanson's husband

As insufferable as Beltran seems to be, I think he was right in not wanting Chakotay to do that. Whether it's simply a matter of Beltran's ego aligning with what's best for the Chakotay character or whether it was truly a matter of what was right for the character is an open question.

[quote][R565] What does that mean? Paramount won't allow Kate Mulgrew to appear on two shows at once?

Meaning they're not allowed to use Janeway because they don't want to lock the Prodigy writers into a particular story.

Like, if for example, Prodigy gives her an eyepatch, and then she appears on Picard, set twenty years later, without it...

[quote]When did the Borg become shapeshifters such that they could take the form of her hand?

TERRY MATALAS: The device Vadic cut her hand off on sent a subspace signal to the Collective so they could communicate. You saw the back of the HandBoss’s head this episode. Stay tuned…

He's promising a different look to the Borg Queen's face for next week.

[quote]Speaking on why we do not see her face in this episode, Matalas told Collider, "It is Alice Krige as the Borg Queen. You will see in the finale, though, it is voiced by Alice Krige, but the Borg Queen does not look good when you see her. Janeway did a number on them the last time we saw them, and there's a reason she needs Jack." In Star Trek: Voyager, an alternate future version of Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) delivered a brutal blow to the Borg, keeping them relatively at bay until this moment. Given that she needs to rely on the Changelings and now Jack to enact her plan, this may give Picard and company a weakness that they can exploit to save humanity in the upcoming finale. Season 2's Borg plot differs a bit from their modus operandi in Season 3, Matalas explained, saying "that the Borg Conduit, from Season 2, was a bit of a distraction so that they could open the real one where they are, which you'll discover in the finale."

Confirms Elnor was NOT on The Excelsior.

r559, Sean Ferrick's video had far more ups than downs and I thought this episode had as much, if not a tad more, ups than downs. I'm as much a Trekkie as the next one but there was waaay too much fan service in this week's episode. I'M FUCKING SICK OF THE BORG. As a DS9 fan, I thought it was shitty to be dangling the Changelings in front of us and giving us the impression that the Dominion would be the main villain but here we are. Back to that dry Borg well. I think the story would've worked much better if Jack was a Pah-Wraith (red eyes led us to suspect that). Sean seems like a nice guy but Trekkie fan boy apologists are TIRESOME.

[quote]Sean Ferrick's video had far more ups than downs and I thought this episode had as much, if not a tad more, ups than downs.

I meant "I thought this episode had as much, if not a tad more, DOWNS than ups."

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I detest "Prodigy". There is just something so noisy and annoying about it. I could not care less about the new kiddie characters, especially the blue kid and the Telarite character. This thing about Janeway, Chakotay, and probably other "Voyager" characters being locked out for "Prodigy" only, makes me hate the show even more. I would rather see live action versions catching up with us, continuing their story. The story they've told so far with Janeway, etc.is fine, whatever, but I could sure do without the stupid kids.

The gossip is even though it's been renewed for a second season, it's also the final season because the response has not been what was expected and desired. Hopefully that means once the kiddie show ends, the "Voyager" characters will be released for a live action project.

Forgot to say I was surprised to see Tuvok on "Picard" because of the "Prodigy" lockout, even if it was a Changeling version. So not all characters are off the board. There was gossip about B'Elanna Torres making an appearance on "Prodigy" next season.

I'm not a fan of the cartoons, either.

I have yet to laugh once at anything in Lower Decks.

Jack being a Pah-Wraith makes zero sense and would be a disservice to Picard. The Enterprise-E played literally no role in the Dominion War and trying to shoehorn a vendetta against JL would be a total wtf moment. Save the Wraiths for a DS9 show...the Borg was a huge part of Picard's character development. Remember him before BOBW? He was uptight, hated kids, curt, etc... Once he re-discovered his humanity it was a rebirth for him.

While I'm somewhat tired of the Borg and wish that the second season had not used them, the reality is that any show about Picard, his past, and his legacy has to deal with the Borg for any true character arc.

His assimilation as Locutus was the single defining event of his life. The ramifications of that event had galactic repercussions, as well as personal ones. He's never truly dealt with it.

The Pah-Wraith, Dominion, the Prophets, and Bajor are DS9 storylines and issues whose resolution don't really have an impact on TNG character arcs.

Yes. The Picard character changed dramatically after BoBW, and much for the better. He actually became more likeable. The Borg became such a huge part of "Voyager" and Janeway was credited with "writing the book on The Borg", but it was as if people forgot the fact The Borg was introduced on TNG thanks to Q. I always thought it was a bit of a cop-out for the "Voyager" writers to bring back The Borg, especially after all the blowing- off about "new, never-before-seen threats in the Delta Quandrant" and how creative they could be in this new environment. But The Kazon failed to catch on, the ones with "The Phage" were just gross, and Species 8472 didn't hold up either. But I digress.

The Borg is much more Picard's white whale. We should have seen it coming with the sound byte of Soong talking about "Evolution", the Changelings evolving, even our beloved TNG crew evolving, as we all should as we age and go on with our lives. People piss on "Picard", but that's why I love it. I don't know if it's my age, but I find myself looking back at my life and how many "lives" I've lived over the years, and how many versions of myself I've been, I have a need to make sense of it all, to understand it and thereby understand myself. "Go backward to go forward" as The Borg Queen said in season 2. (RIP Annie) Sir Patrick Stewart had gone through a journey of introspection, retracing his father's steps during WW1 and prior, trying to understand his own abused life. It's my understanding this led to the idea of "Picard" as a series.

But yes, it makes so much more sense Picard and Beverly would finally get their shit together, make a child (who wasn't Wesley), Picard would finally feel he continued the family line, he actually cared about the boy, then have it all taken away by none other than The fucking Borg! I thought it was clever to have his Irumadic (sp?) Syndrome actually be insidious seeds planted by The Borg all those years ago.

Btw, thank you R578 for not flaming me for my opinions on "Prodigy" and "Lower Decks". I've stated them in other Trek forums and got dragged pretty hard for it. LD is just not my kind of humor. I gave it a try, but to me, "Rick and Morty" and Trek just do not blend. Sitting naked in the command chair and beating off while recording a pretend captain's log. The guy constantly ripping off his shirt. To me, it's more a parody of Trek than "the greatest Trek ev-uh!" as I've seen it called.

As the characters have evolved over time, I've begun to believe that Q sent the Enterprise to meet the Borg on purpose to warn Picard that the Borg were coming, so they could prepare.

While it was probably originally written simply as Q teaching Picard a lesson about being arrogant, the evolution of the Picard and Q relationship over time recontextualizes that event a bit.

It always seems like Q would have done more to help Picard and humanity if allowed to do so, but the continuum wouldn't let him, so he's had to do things with plausible deniability and leaned into his "capriciousness" as a cover for a lot of the things he did.

[quote]I gave it a try, but to me, "Rick and Morty" and Trek just do not blend.

Despite Mike McMahan's pedigree, if Lower Decks has a spiritual twin, it's Futurama. I respect it not being for you, but the whole thing is made by people who DEEPLY love the franchise.

Despite it being comedy, it hits the theme of "crew as chosen family" as good as any of the other shows.

3 10

I couldn't stand "Futurama" either. Was Mike McMahan the guy who said he wanted to make a show about the people who put the yellow cartridge in the food replicator so a banana would come out yellow? For a guy who claims to love a show so much, he doesn't even know how the replicators are supposed to work? Sewage waste on a starship gets turned into energy; nothing is wasted. It is not collected into huge clear plastic bags for maintenance to collect. Too many of these guys claim to be "huge fans" of a franchise, yet they say that for people to fall for it and think their disrespectful "jokes" are okay. "That's not how it works? Who cares?! It's gross! It's funny!" Nope. You always need to have the last word, votn. You always need to be right. That's why I don't post in the Trek threads; you and your collective own them. I love Trek, but I don't belong here. It's people like you who jumped my ass on other boards. "Lower Decks is cool! It's hilarious! You're old and boring!" Enjoy your thread. I'm out of here.

[quote]LD is just not my kind of humor. I gave it a try, but to me, "Rick and Morty" and Trek just do not blend.

But Rick & Morty is genuinely funny, LD is not.

Yeah....

The bridge looked perfect in the show, but if you actually compare pix of the original to this one, you can see some big differences.

Still looked great.

It looks better here than it did in widescreen in Generations.

Speaking of, I'm working my second job, which has a lot of downtime but doesn't let me have access to my personal devices. So I almost randomly started watching Generations on HBOMax. You know, it's not a good movie, but there are really some terrific parts. As ridiculously indulgent as having Kirk and Picard on screen together is, the "Don't let them promote you, don't let them transfer you" scene almost justifies it.

A bit of an aside...

BUT I did get to chat with Shatner again today at Monster Mania. This is his final year of attending cons, he is retiring from the circuit in 2024.

When I walked up to him, a woman behind me had a bug or something on her and she squealed really loudly. He looked at her funny so I said to him, "There HE is...still making the ladies orgasm!"

And he responded with a sly grin, "Well, that's what I do."

As much bad stuff as you hear about Bill, the man has always been cordial, funny and a great conversationalist whenever I have encountered him.

I saw him behind closed doors today on his Rascal getting around but when he came out to greet us he walked out on his own legs. I'm assuming this is contributing to his retirement but very touching for him not to want the fans to see him incapacitated.

Perhaps we should talk about casualties.

Jack Crusher? Jean-Luc? Data? Geordi or his daughters?

Surely Shaw won’t be the last to die.

I don't think any of the main TNG cast are going to die.

If it is someone, it'll be Geordi who had to run down to engineering to prevent some disaster and ends up having to sacrifice or Beverly to save her son.

I'm betting on some Betazoid shenanigans to save Jack.

I must admit, I never really like TNG, but I love this.

Jonathan Frakes is one of the most attractive men to have ever lived.

[quote]Jonathan Frakes is one of the most attractive men to have ever lived.

Supposedly, Roddenberry thought that Frakes was exceptionally handsome which is why he was cast.

Personally, I've never thought he was particularly attractive. The last time Roddenberry struck gold with casting was Stephen Collins as Decker - and look how that turned out.

You can tell Frakes was hired because he was good-looking. His first seasons of acting on TNG proves it out.

Probably is the reason he moved to directing.

A pretty fair analysis, but right about Stewart's miscalculations damning seasons 1 & 2. Some good points about the importance of starships as a character.

R595 Season 3 really is what the show should've been from day one. While I love Picard as a character, and Stewart is a great actor, the only episode of the first two seasons that actually worked was Nepenthe.

Just announced with a confirmation from Yeoh herself:

3 10 doesn’t look good for Jack

Can't Wesley or Q just arrive from wherever the hell they reside and correct everything?

Kind of like the ending of Fringe years ago, just take everyone back to a certain date and wipe their minds.

voila!

Goodbye, thread!