The Last of Us (2023; HBO)

Murray gets sixth billing!

And is he homosexual again?

Pedro Pascal AND Diego Luna?! Dios mio.

I’ve been watching my friend play through the video games on Twitch. If there was a reason for an eldergay to buy a game console, I’m pretty sure “The Last of Us” series would be a pretty solid choice.

Scary, creepy, somehow nostalgic.

^ nostalgic for what?

I'd rather watch Gilligan's Island or The Flying Nun.

There's a lot of visceral banging in the OP's clip.

Devoid of intellect.

Nothing against Pedro, but i would not have picked him for Joel.

R4 Lots of scenes that look old, a lot of the game scenes were modeled after real locations.

The game was enjoyable but not sure I need to watch this series.

video games? ugh

I’m fine with Pedro for Joel, but Bella gives pause

Trailer.

The nerds are all going crazy over this, but it doesn't seem like anything I haven't seen before. I doubt it'll be on the level of something like Station Eleven, writing-wise.

I love a post-apocalyptic tale, love Pedro, enjoyed Bella in GOT, and have implicit trust in the creators of "Chernobyl." I'm all in.

(P.S. Did any Elder Gays notice Marilyn Whirlwind (Elaine Miles) in the trailer?!)

I'll check it out next month.

[quote] I doubt it'll be on the level of something like Station Eleven, writing-wise.

Different species I think. Station 11 was hipster end of the world, quirk-ocalypse. This seems to be more like an attempt to tell a story of the end in a straight realistic fashion, like early TWD.

I was a gamer briefly in the early 2000s — the first half life games got me into it. But I dropped out before half life 2 and so also missed TLOU. I know the story though and think it’d be a great series.

How is Ellen Page not in this? This was made for her. Literally.

[quote]The nerds are all going crazy over this, but it doesn't seem like anything I haven't seen before. I doubt it'll be on the level of something like Station Eleven, writing-wise.

The game tells a great story and has some pretty gut wrenching emotional moments.

If they can achieve half the pathos as the game, they're doing exceptionally well.

Dead name attack at r16!

What does the kid actress say at 0:34 in the trailer? She really needs to work on her diction, I almost didn't catch her opening line in the trailer either. Alternatively, just loop that part (again) before the episode airs.

[quote]How is Ellen Page not in this? This was made for her. Literally.

Much too old to play the character now, setting aside the other obvious problems with casting Page.

Ellie is a young teenager. Page cannot play that anymore.

After 66 reviews, a 97% rating.

[quote] Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are incredible in The Last of Us, an unmissable, perfect adaptation of the hit video game series that manages to do the Naughty Dog title justice, all while expanding this world in thrilling new ways.

[quote] Comfortably the best adaptation of a video-game ever made: one that deepens the game’s dystopian lore, while staying true to its emotional core. Like the game, it’s a masterpiece, too.

[quote] Right now, HBO is simply operating on a different level to any other network.

Gay characters in episode 3:

I’m looking forward to this.

Is the girl related to Steve Little?

I cannot fucking stand Pedro Pascale, but I can’t deny his resemblance to his character in the video game.

The BBC liked it a lot! It looks great - I'll be watching when it's released.

Cnet's take on the show:

[quote]HBO's The Last of Us is an absolute triumph, offering one of gaming's most intense and engaging narratives to TV viewers and revealing exciting new aspects of the universe to those who've played the games. It's beautifully written and the casting is flawless, with Pascal, Ramsey and their co-stars adding layers of emotional depth and unsettling moral grayness to every moment.

Here's what they say about the third episode dealing mostly with gay characters:

[quote] Most of the season's nine episodes focus on this core dynamic, but it also takes a few surprising detours to tell more self-contained stories. These tales reveal how characters find room for tenderness and happiness amidst the horror. One of these dives into the life of gruff survivor Bill, with Parks and Recreation actor Nick Offerman anchoring an installment that proves to be the season's most uplifting and haunting. It massively expands a storyline that's only hinted at in the game and stands as a perfect piece of episodic storytelling. You might need to lie down for a bit after watching this one.

I still haven't finished this video game series because of time. It's become a waste of money, now. I will not watch this until I have completed both TLOU and TLOU II.

I’m so over negative energy TV. Glorification of crime and over the top violence. Fuck it. My mind wants respite!!

I’m also in the middle of TLOU I, which I haven’t finished for the simple reason that I prefer PC gaming.

r29 I prefer console gaming for this genre. But, I started getting migraines/seasick whenever I would play. I think it's because the game is so dark. Literally dark. I was straining my eyes too much.

I fundamentally agree with R28, which is why I find myself watching shit I’d typically avoid, like Abbott Elementary and Emily in Paris. That said, I miss the days of “monoculture” and won’t be on the outside looking in if “The Last of Us” is a hit (as expected).

Is the girl special needs?

Tonight!

Bella Ramsay looks like her parents are siblings.

The thing I like about the apocalypse in TLOU is, it’s plausible, and at the same time the zombie-esque humans are scarier.

That said, I was out of computer gaming by the time TLOU was published, although I know a bit about the story arc anyway. I’ll be watching tonight for sure.

Sounds delightful...

Anyone watch? I thought it was great, really did the game justice. The story changes so far aren’t obtrusive and make sense. I’m excited to have a new Sunday show for the next eight weeks.

I thought it was amazing. I was forced to watch it by a friend and thought it'd be yet another zombie apocalypse bore but the plot, acting and locations were stellar. Anna Torv was a highlight.

This is a pic from the-weeks-ahead preview trailer. It's Murray Bartlett, probably from episode 3. Posted because he looks so good here.

Brilliant first episode, the first half hour was particularly great. I loved the scene where Sarah's checking the dvds and in the background as the old lady becomes infected out of focus and the added tendrils to the infecteds mouth as the infect others adds up the creel factor.

I watched The Walking Dead and Station Eleven so don't know if I want to get involved with this. I am tired of watching depressing shows.

I'm right there with you, R41. I'm a big fan of the first game too. I don't know if I want to invest my time in another zombie apocalypse series.

I'm tired of dystopia. We all should be,

Having said that, I'd rim Pedro, Diego and Murray for days.

I appear to be in the minority in this but I didn't like Bella Ramsey's Ellie. Nothing to do with the fact that she's not cute, but she just came off as strident, mugged in every scene, and had no chemistry with Pedro, and that's a problem considering their relationship is the heart of the show. I just didn't think much of her acting and didn't connect with her character at all. I recall Bella had the same pompous pinched vibe in "Catherine Called Birdy" but she was playing royalty in that, so it sort of worked for her there. Here I'm not sure it does.

I'll watch more, though, because the rest of the cast is great and it's entertaining enough.

Love the games. Some of the best that I've ever played, BUT I just don't need to see this.

I'm with r44. She's really horribly miscast. In general, she's not a good actress. It's going to be hard to watch her every week.

I thought she was surprisingly good and looked better than I expected - I was anticipating her to be funny-looking enough that it would be a distraction, but she just looked like a regular kid. But I know nothing about acting, so my admiration may be proof that she was awful.

Overall, I thought it was good but it didn’t blow me away. Agree that the first half hour was great, but I was sort of bummed when that story line petered out and they jumped ahead.

[quote]I’m so over negative energy TV

I’m probably the odd duck here, but what I find most depressing about these shows, is it reminds me how I (and probably most people) have no useful skills if the shit really hit the fan.

From what I've heard the creator originally wanted the first episode to end when Joel dumps that kids body in the firepit, but HBO execs weren't keen on having it end with another child's death and so it was extended, that might explain why the episode lagged a little after that point.

r48 ever since I first saw 'The Day After' as a kid, I figured I would rather go out quickly in the beginning, I am not cut out for living in an apocalypse.

Who was the little girl who walked into the compound? Was that the younger Ellie character and how she ended up there?

The actress that played the daughter in the first episode is the offspring of Thandiwe Newton.

r51 when they guy ran a scanner on her it turned red which I assume meant she was positive for the virus or whatever it is. Then they showed the main character throwing the body of that little girl into the fire. So they must have killed her.

Ok thanks R53. I didn't connect the two.

R53 I thought it was a little boy

I’m sorry because I’m sure there is a story…but why doesn’t DL like Pedro? I found him great in this?

r55 it could have been a boy with long hair. But anyway, the child was later shown dead and thrown into the fire.

For anyone unfamiliar with the background of the game and show I recommend watching this, gives you an idea of what the real fungi is like.

Was that John Hannah as the scientist at the beginning?

R53 yes that's what I assumed too. It's why the FEDRA lady was so kind and reassuring her that after the "medicine" was administered, she would be safe and have toys and go get her favorite meal. It was a mercy killing.

The girl playing Sarah was a much better actor than Ellie.

I enjoyed the show more than I thought I would. It definitely started on the highest of notes with appearances by John Hannah and the guy who played Big Head on Silicon Valley.

[quote]The girl playing Sarah was a much better actor than Ellie.

Agree on that. Nico Parker looks so much like her mother it was distracting at times. Their facial expressions are also very similar, not surprisingly.

Bella Ramsey's wiki page say she's non binary in addition to being non-normal looking.

I was dreading the introduction of yet another precocious teen girl character who watches over her dad, but Nico did a great job. Bella Ramsay is so unfortunate looking…but I will give her credit for one ring: although claiming to be non-binary she uses all pronouns, so you don’t have to walk on eggshells when referring to her.

Nico is a better actor and really likable. I almost wish they had swapped her with Bella - she would have made a fine Ellie

It's a fucking ZOMBIE movie!! What the fuck has happened to people.

I loved the games so I was dreading the adaptation but it's really great so far. I'm hoping the Ellie actor improves though because she's the weakest link. I agree the two girls should have been swapped around.

Never having played the game, I watched it and mildly enjoyed it. No new territory here at all so far. Given the absolute raving reviews, it appears every film critic is also a gaming nerd, who would have thought.

According to the reviewers, Ellie may grow on you like the fungus. The reviewers have apparently seen at least 4 of the episodes.

[quote] ‘The Last Of Us’ Becomes HBO’s Second-Largest Debut After ‘House Of The Dragon’ Since 2010 With 4.7M Viewers

I’m not familiar with the video game, but I assumed that making Ellie less initially appealing that the lost daughter was intentional. The daughter was pretty and nurturing. Ellie is funny looking and hostile. So by learning to love Ellie the hero demonstrates growth and what a great guy he is.

Now that I know the actress playing Ellie is non-binary I’m wondering if her and Steve Little have even been in the same room at the same time.

R55

The kid was referenced as a boy when the adults were testing him and talking to him. I assumed he was a girl up to that point, but I have a hard time guessing if a pre-teen kid is a boy/girl without any other clues like clothes and hair.

I thought the acting was ham fisted and the show seems dated. Nico Parker was fantastic though. So talented and the carbon copy of her gorgeous mother.

I don't think she's a carbon copy at all. In fact I didn't even know she was Thandie's daughter until I read it here.

She beautiful in her own right and quite talented for sure

Hopefully she didn't inherit the crazy gene that her mother has.

She looks so similar to Thandie Newton it's almost disturbing. How can you not see it r73.

Overall I enjoyed the pilot. Not sure if the world really needed another zombie show, but it was executed well and I am along for the ride.

The first thirty minutes were fantastic. The rest was good. I don't game and no nothing about the video game, but I'm hooked.

I think Pedro is hot af, so that doesn't hurt either.

I thought it was hilarious the Fireflies rebel was in full make-up.

R75 her facial features look much larger and rounder to me. Thandie has a sharp pixie face.

R48 in the WWZ book, that was a thing: plumbers and electricians and carpenters rose to the top of the heap while the Csuite did crap jobs like janitorial and laundry.

R78, they had long manicured fingernails as well.

I don't mean to be all comic-book guy, R43, but technically this would not be a dystopia.

Miss Bartlett is in EVERYTHING these days

His performance in White Lotus really put him on the map in Hollywood r83, happy for him. He was the best part of the Looking cast, it was clear he had real talent.

Jesus, Zombies again?? Come up with something new.

Wherever they're filming this, it looks fuck-all like Boston.

It’s fucking bullshit how they film these shows in Canada of all places. Alberta looks nothing like Massachusetts.

Well they won’t be in Boston for long.

Nico Parker is distractingly pretty. I wasn't thinking about her parentage, just enjoying the beauty.

"Joel and Mitzi, a pair connected through the generosity of a gentleman of a certain age and character, are forced to endure brutal circumstances and ruthless killers on a trek across post-pandemic America."

Now, THAT would be a show I'd pay to see!

I thought episode 2 was disappointing.

Starting this episode in Jakarta and the mycologist telling the military to "bomb this city and everyone in it" was a nice addition. The change to Tess's final moments actually hit me harder than the game and the last moment was horrifying.

I'm not familiar with the game so I know nothing about The Last Of Us but so far it's very good, imho. Hopefully it won't turn to shit the way The Walking Dead did. There are 9 episodes.

Another perfect opening, sets up how horrified even the experts were. Once it gets to the trio it slowed a little, but I guess the show had to explain some of the details on the infected before proceeding on. The clickers were fantastic, my only issue is that part could've gone on a little longer, really ratchet up the tension of the trio trying to manoeuvre around the room similar to the kitchen scene in Jurassic Park. The end was great, different enough from the game without losing Tess's sacrifice and that kiss has to be one of the most grim things I've seen in a long time.

It's a little too scary for me. The trek is interesting, so I'll watch another episode. But the makeup effects on that infected guy the kid encounters really creeped me out. Those eyes (shudder).

Not sure why this is getting such good press, it’s basically “The Walking Dead” or one of its sequels. Nothing I haven’t seen before.

Most critics said it was episode 3 that really sold them on the show r96.

[quote]it’s basically “The Walking Dead” or one of its sequels. Nothing I haven’t seen before.

Well, the production design is better, but basically, yes.

True r98. HBO spends money on good production design, unlike cheap-ass AMC.

I've never been a video game person, not since the Asteroids machine in my local 40 years ago. I became very good at that one. Haven't bothered with them since.

I like Pedro Pascal and Diego Luna so I'll binge-watch this series eventually, although I despise zombie shit. I don't have the patience to wait a week for the next episode anymore. I'd rather wait for the season to be over and see it then.

If it sticks to the story as well as it has so far, it will continue to be far better than crappy Walking Dead.

Bella Ramsay is difficult to look at.

I agree. I think she's totally miscast for the role and doesn't embody Ellie at all.

Too bad Ellen Page is too old for the role and is now Elliot Page. The character design of Ellie was based on her.

Damn, I liked Anna Torv . I was hoping we'd see more of her.

Yeah, Anna Torv was great. She did convey a lot in just 2 episodes and not a lot of screen time, so that what happened had even more impact.

Bella Ramsey looks like she has Down Syndrome or FAS.

Bella Ramsey is fine. Pedro on the other hand… nah. He just doesn’t read as that overly masc stoic that Joel is. I don’t really buy him at all. He’s fine, but they could have found dozens of guys to play the role more convincingly.

[quote] Starting this episode in Jakarta and the mycologist telling the military to "bomb this city and everyone in it" was a nice addition. The change to Tess's final moments actually hit me harder than the game and the last moment was horrifying.

Yeah, in the game she dies by holding the line against FEDRA while Joel and Ellie escape. Instead her zombie death was much more awful. I’m not really understanding the criticism “there aren’t enough zombies in the show.” In the game, the monsters are really quite secondary. You’re mostly dealing with violent humans, platforming, and exploration. The zombies are confined to a few set pieces. They’re not the center of the drama. What they’ve done with expanding the story has worked so far. What I really want to see is the story of the guy who started the little survivor town in the sewers. I’m hoping they give that an episode because we never learned the full story in the game. It’s all just alluded to through the set and found items.

I'm still loving this, though I agree Pedro is just kind of there. The Indonesian scientist was a brilliant performance, and I loved getting backstory on how the fungal catastrophe happened.

R86 and R87, I agree. Fucking Canada with its fake looking locations and colorless day player actors.

I thought the Indonesian scientist jumped to “bomb” way too fast. I get what her character was supposed to be but I felt like there was no way, without the benefit of hindsight, she could have gotten to kill everyone in the area so fast. If they had kept the secondary infections alive and she actually saw them, maybe. But second hand account of “violent.” No way. They should have stretched it out because that was by far the best part of tue episode.

The actress was fantastic, though and the sense of special, talented person being exactly where they needed to be came through. A heroic moment.

Other than that, I thought it was a very generic zombie show.

Boycotting due to it being filmed in Alberta.

Good for you r112. Nobody cares.

Yes, some people do, R113.

Fun so far. Love Pedro, but I can't hear his voice without thinking of Mando. He and Bella don't have much chemistry as co-workers either. She's dull. He's kind of dull here too.

The zombie genre is basically what the western was seventy years ago. It satisfies that deep American urge for murder without consequences.

Or it's just a fun fucking show r116. People love post-apocalyptic shit. Well, except for the pearl-clutching Dlers.

I wonder how Fallout on Amazon Prime will compare next to this.

I loved Anna Torv, but I knew she was going to get killed off early because she wasn't in any of the promo pieces.

R118 it probably won't. Amazon doesn't have the record that HBO does, Amazon seems to want put yes men in charge of their creative endeavours instead of actual creatives.

Good point, R120. That’s why I have little hope for their God of War series. The Boys is the best thing Amazon has as a TV series right now and that’s because the showrunner is a talented creative.

Yeah I'm disappointed and surprised Bella and Pedro have zero chemistry which is saying a lot considering Pedro has chemistry with even a CGI green alien. Bella really needs to be taken aside by a director and told to stop jutting her chin out whenever she's trying to be thoughtful or determined. It's quite a distraction as acting tics go.

R116, I thought that was what sci-fi was for, no?

Star Wars is a space western.

Pedro Pascal.. mmmmm-hmmm....

Fuckable. For. Days.

I love that Merle Dandridge is reprising her role as Marlene. She’s just as much a force of nature on the show as she was when she did the motion capturing of the character in the game.

She’s really good.

R93 Walking Dead was garbage from the start.

Walking Dead was great for the first two seasons. It was pulling in pre-internet ratings numbers, which is unheard of. Then AMC had to fuck with it and it all turned to shit.

I thought that The Walking Dead was crap from the begging. How are you going to have a show about end of the world and zombie apocalypse with zero cursing and nudity. The story was boring. The whole show seemed so tame and lame. Like a soap opera about zombies.

Anybody got some hot zombie nudes for R129?

If Pedro was a zombie I would let him eat me.

[quote]How are you going to have a show about end of the world and zombie apocalypse with zero cursing and nudity.

Well if that's all you care about it says more about you than it does the show.

Bella Ramsey is the Moira Kelly of the millenium.

I’m a gamer and have played Last of Us 1 and 2.

Loving this series. Excellent acting. Special effects are nicely done.

💯💯💯👍👍👍🧟‍♂️

If all they wanted was a car battery why didn't they just take one from all those abandoned cars all around once they ventured into the city . I mean, that's all you saw where abandoned cars everywhere! I would have just found a battery with some juice in it and abandoned that weird girl !

Those cars have been sitting there for 20 years. Obviously, the batteries wouldn't work.

I rolled my eyes a little that they were going through so much trouble for a car battery, but using battery powered flashlights incessantly. But I love the show.

Troy Baker, who does the voice and the stop action for the Joel character in the game, also has a part in the HBOMax series and is doing promotion for the series. He was speaking on the Alanah Pearce podcast about how much he admired Pedro Pascal's performance as Joel. Then he said this about Bella Ramsey's performance as Ellie:

[quote] God damn, Belly Ramsey. Holy Shit. People don’t even know- she is coming for you. She is so effortless. She is terrifying. You’re dead, it’s already done. What you don’t get without knowing anything about Bella Ramsey is the 15,000 layers of shit that’s happening underneath every choice she makes.

He's seen episodes 1 through 5, so I hope we get to see what he sees in her performance in episodes 3 to 5. He'd be doing her no favors by overselling her, so he must actually believe this.

I think the mistake they made was setting the current story in 2023. Technology has advanced quite a bit since the initial release of the first game in 2013. Finding a car battery in 2023 shouldn't be as difficult.

r139 the world ended in 2003. So all the cars you see are 20 years old.

I would take what Troy Baker says with a grain of salt, R138. He also hyped the hell out of the second game, which was an absolute disaster storywise. Plus, he's close friends with Neil Druckmann, the game's creator and showrunner of the series. Neil can do no wrong in Troy's eyes.

I say this as someone who likes Troy's work (and find him strangely attractive).

The second wasn’t an absolute disaster storywise. Only to straight incel Reddit posters.

R132 I don't care about it, but you really think that in a apocalyptic world filled with brain eating zombies, people wouldn't cuss or have sex?

So in a video game, are you, the player, playing with Joel's character or Ellie's? Or can you choose between two of them?

[quote] The second wasn’t an absolute disaster storywise. Only to straight incel Reddit posters.

Well, I’m none of those things and consider it a weaker game. It had a lot of holes in the story with piss-poor character development compared to the first game. But to each their own, I guess.

[quote] So in a video game, are you, the player, playing with Joel's character or Ellie's? Or can you choose between two of them?

You play as both. Throughout the game Joel and Ellie are often separated and you get to play as both, similar to Resident Evil 4 where you play as Leon and Ashley.

How much lesbianism is there in the videogame?

Joel in the first and Ellie in the second R144. You do play as Ellie for about an hour in the finale of the first game.

There’s also the downloadable expansion pack in the first game where you play as Ellie that gives a backstory on how she got infected.

[quote]Troy Baker, who does the voice and the stop action for the Joel character in the game, also has a part in the HBOMax series and is doing promotion for the series.

Ok. Now, I HAVE to watch it. Finished game or not. I just saw a comparison of the opening between the series and the game and am impressed.

I also made the mistake of thinking the actor DIEGO LUNA is in the series. I read that he was supposed to be be playing Joel's brother Tommy, but the actor playing Tommy looked nothing like Diego. After doublechecking IMDB, I saw that the actor is actually GABRIEL LUNA.

I made the same mistake R151. Disappointing, but I'll keep watching.

Gabriel Luna is hot, too, and he's a Texan!

Hello everyone. I'm thinking of watching. Shall I?

Is this a thumbs up or a thumbs down so far?

I'd say thumbs up so far. In some ways, it surpasses the game in terms of storytelling and character development.

R154, the first episode was fantastic. The second episode was a letdown. But reviewers seem to have been saying the next few episodes are great. Give it a shot, I say.

If you have a thing for stoic daddy types (I do), it's worth watching for Pedro. You'll need to pay extra attention to Pedro when the unfortunate looking one is on the screen. Trust me on this.

I just picture Grogu. His cute little face.

Pedro has painted himself into quite the corner. If he’s really gay he’s in severe trouble with his audience which is mostly women, and surprisingly women of color. They are absolutely obsessed with him on TikTok. If he comes out of the closet his career is over.

All the women I know who post online saying he's hot do so knowing he's gay. It's 2023, everyone posting in online circles knows the gossip.

True r159. Chris Pine is another one who at this point even the fraus have figured out is gay.

I'm a woman. Not convinced he's gay, but perhaps bi. He looked pretty cosy with Lena Heady a few years ago. Either way he's hot.

Absolutely not R159. There is zero discussion amongst women about him being gay. It is not known publicly at all.

R162 This isn't true. There is discussion of him being either Gay or Bisexual, but not necessarily a consensus.

R158, I noticed that Lipstick Alley is obsessed with him, so you’re right about women of color being his biggest fan base.

Chris Pine is supposed to be gay now?

Oh FFS.

He's been gay his whole life r165

He has a Charles Bronson thing going on. The public would not be able to reconcile that image with a gay man.

LOL R166.

You sound like an insane fan who is obsessed and unhinged.

Proof of your claim? If he's gay then you'll post it here so we can all see the proof. If you've got solid proof then great - if not... then you're full of shit.

Oh FFS r168 it's known in the Industry and in circles in LA.

LOL @ R169!

You haven't truly become an Angelino until you've seen Chris Pine staggering drunk on Robertson.

JFC "Angeleno"

Chris Pine is totally straight. Pedro Pascal is totally straight. Leonardo Dicaprio is totally straight. Every hot male actor is totally straight.

I'm not a frau R173. I'm a gay male. Clearly evident from my long posting history.

I asked for proof. And what I got was "oh, everybody just knows" from R169. That's not proof and is exactly what I expected to get back.

I really don't care if Pine is gay or not - but I do care about proof as all normal people do.

So where's the proof for this claim? None? Then just STFU.

ok r174 you can believe that Chris Pine is straight. Whatever.

WTF do you want r174? Video of him getting fucked in the ass? He's not exactly going to be doing PDAs with other men in public. It's known in LA he hooks up with guys, it's known in the industry.

Andy Cohen loves coke. Where's the photo evidence? Of course there isn't any but if you're around certain circles you know this is fact.

I already said that I couldn't give a flying fuck whether Chris Pine is gay or straight R175.

This is what I said:

[quote]I really don't care if Pine is gay or not - but I do care about proof as all normal people do.

So now I know that you have no proof and when questioned about it, you flounce around blaming everyone else for not falling for your bullshit like you have at R175. You're boringly predictable.

Oh and there's another "everyone just knows" post from R176.

Clearly - this is a thread filled with slobbering insane people.

r178 go to bed. If you traveled in certain circles (you obviously don't) then you'd know.

You'd also know about Clive Owen's career suffering because he refused to fuck Angelina Jolie

You'd know Johnny Depp liked getting topped by black guys.

You'd know Tim Robbins kept an apartment on the UES where he'd meet male escorts.

Anyway I'm looking forward to the third episode; it's supposed to be a good one.

I am too. This week went by fast!

Not to reopen the whole Chris Pine is gay debate, but I mostly heard rumors that he's bisexual.

People are still arguing about Pedro’s sexuality? He walked the red carpet at Venice with his long-term boyfriend a couple of months ago and used to like tweets about being gay before he deleted his account. Oscar Isaac’s wife calls him his sisterwife.

Are Pedro Pascal and Edgar Ramirez boyfriends? Please say it is so.

R184 Unfortunately no, he’s dating Sebastiano Mauri.

Pedro could do so much better than Sebastiano Mauri. What a letdown.

Quite a lot of pics of them together on Instagram and Tumblr.

Wasn't he messing around with Sarah Paulson a few years back, before she got with her granny girlfriend?

Why do some zombies look like regular people while other look like half mushrooms half humans breed? Are those the ones that were infected for longer? And i get that they can't see since they don't have eyes, but how do they have such perfect hearing since they lack the ears as well? And why does fungus from their mouth and wounds moves so quickly? I don't get that part. It's weird how all the virus infected zombies in other media move so slowly, while these fungus zombies move at the speed of light. When it would be a lot more logical if it was the other way around. But the part that bugs ether most how they are supposedly all connected. Mushrooms in the woods aren't all connected with their roots all leading to one big mother root. Even if they were, humans don't have fucking roots, so how exactly are they connected to one another. Wish they just went with more regular zombies, because the whole premise behind the shrom zombies is kinda stupid.

It's a tee-vee show r189. Do not expect objective reality. And by all means, don't let it bug you.

Go with the flow.

R190 I know it's a silly show about zombies. Far from the realism as it gets. But still, I would like a better writing.

R188 Paulson is a lesbian and her type is strictly old women.

R192 No she isn't, she dated men and said she is an equal opportunist

I've never heard about with a man. She was with the older Cherry Jones and now she's with the even older Holland Taylor. Does she have some kind of mommy fetish?

I work in “the industry.” Outside of the impossibly tiny niche of DL, there are little to no rumors of Pablo being gay, friendship with Paulson notwithstanding. He is widely viewed as straight. He wouldn’t have been hired for two huge franchises that are masculine and stoic otherwise. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Period.

R195 I'm sure Pablo isn't gay, but Pedro definitely is.

Pablo! R195 told on herself.

Pedro takes a lie detector test.

[quote] "What's the strangest thing someone has said about you on social media?"

[quote] Pedro: "Somebody said that I look like Orlando Bloom if he were hit in the face with a shovel."

On another topic:

[quote] Pedro: "Daddy is a state of mind, know what I'm sayin'?. I'm your Daddy."

r189 there are different stages of infection and mutation.

^ spoiler alert for those who haven’t played the game

R194 Before Cherry she only dated men, including Tracy Letts. And she said she's an equal opportunist. Anyway, this if getting off topic.

I’ve heard people who’ve played the game refer to the infected in the Massachusetts State House (Episode 2) as “the Clickers.” Based on their level of deformity I assumed they represent people who’ve been infected since early on in the pandemic (2003-2004).

R202 Don't rhe infected live only a short period of time?

No, R203. As evidenced in Episode 2, they’re actually pretty resilient and aren’t easy to kill.

Pedro has worked for decades and he's finally on the cusp of becoming an A list star. A film career is his ultimate goal and he's not going to fuck it up by coming out.

[quote] People are still arguing about Pedro’s sexuality? He walked the red carpet at Venice with his long-term boyfriend a couple of months ago and used to like tweets about being gay before he deleted his account.

Lol this NEVER happened.

Even the gals on Lipstick Alley know he's gay. And they believe Michael Jackson was straight!

I'd say he's A list already. Been in A list projects for the past three or so years now.

R206 Alright dumbass frau, I'll bite.

Pedro with Sebastiano at Venice.

Thank you, R209. Saved me the time from posting that myself. There are too many pictures of Pedro and Sebastiano together at Venice to say "that NEVER happened."

R206 Some of the Twitter likes.

R206 More Twitter likes.

R206 Elvira Lind, Oscar Isaac's wife, referring to Pedro as her sisterwife.

R206 Bonus: (@pascalispunk special performance for you when you get here)

Welp. Looks like R209 has shut that deluded frau up in this thread. The receipts he provided were beautiful to behold! Lol.

Bravo! 👏

None of those prove or really show anything r215.

R216, I don't know what your agenda is in this thread (you're coming off less of a frau fangirl and more like Pedro's PR team), but it's well-known that Pedro is gay (possibly bisexual) and has been in a relationship with Sebastiano (who divorced his husband in 2016) for years now.

You're either playing dumb or trying to be duplicitous (I'm leaning toward the latter since you mentioned that you're in the industry and never heard rumors about Pedro being gay). Give it up, sweetheart. Pedro likes dick. Live with it.

Bill and Frank 😭

I haven't seen the end R218 and I sense tragedy.

It’s crazy, I’ve liked the guest stars more than Pedro and Bella in every episode so far. The Bill and Ted storyline was done incredibly well and I wouldn’t be surprised if this winds up being my favorite episode of the season. I also never played this game, so reading what the original storyline was for them…thank God they changed it.

This tweet

Wow, I just read that Annie Wersching, who was Tess in the video game, died. She was only 45. RIP.

This is why I said the show, in some ways, is surpassing the game. The changes they made to Bill and Frank's storyline are better in the series than in the game.

I'm not the previous poster r217. I never claimed to work in the industry. Didn't make the other poats.

For r217 because he was a bitch.

Definitely a frau, can't seem to identify a hag when she sees one.

All I'm seeing in that pic, R225/R216, is a straight woman being cuddly with her good judy. Try again.

And you're right, I was wrong about you being Pedro's PR. You're certainly a frau who refuses to see the clear evidence that Pedro isn't straight.

I cried during tonight’s episode.

[quote[I know it's a silly show about zombies. Far from the realism as it gets. But still, I would like a better writing.

In general, the writing is very good, but tonight's episode (S1E03) was outstanding. The whole episode was amazing. We started crying halfway through.

It was a great episode. I cried at Bill and Frank's last couple of scenes. Beautifully written and beautifully acted by Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett

I like how they didn't pussyfoot around Bill and Frank being a couple like in the game, but I do wish that Bill had lived so he could've met Ellie.

Still a great, sad episode. Hopefully it'll win awards.

wow that was STUNNING. It will get them the emmy.

DL fave Melanie Lynskey appears in episode 4!

I don't know who Sebastian Gorka is, even if I did know I still wouldn't give a fuck about his opinions.

Murray Bartlett is a great actor. I love what they did with Bill and Frank (although I liked crazy Frank in the game) .

I worry by the time Emmy nominations are announced in July the Academy will have moved on to shinier objects, but Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett deserve to be remembered for that episode.

Bartlett and Offerman both gave beautiful performances. This is what most gay men are like, not the finger-snapping Yaaass Queens the media keeps spotlighting.

They’ll be remembered in the Guest Actor in a Drama Series, for sure. But they’ll probably lose to someone from Succession.

God that episode was one of the best portrayals of a gay relationship I've ever seen. Just heartbreaking and lovely and so honest.

And in a post apocalyptic zombie movie? Fuck me. Didn't see that coming.

Do you need to be a gamer to enjoy this show? I'm not. I haven't owned a gaming console since my parents bought me a Super Nintendo in the early 90s. I'm also not generally into fantasy, but I loved Game of Thrones, so I'm not above watching niche genre stuff. Just curious to hear from anyone who isn't really into gaming, but who's enjoying the show.

[quote]Do you need to be a gamer to enjoy this show? I'm not.

Not at all.

This show can stand independently without anyone ever playing the video game. It's that well-done.

r241 I'm not a gamer at all - I never even heard of The Last Of Us until the series started and I'm really enjoying it. You don't have to be into gaming to get into it.

R241, I've never even heard of the video game and I love the series so far.

I can't believe someone tried to argue there is no gay talk about Pedro Pascal. The guy is pretty much class closeted.

This was a well done episode that shows that this show is trying to be way deeper and more mature than something like the Walking Dead. Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett did a great job.

Legitimate question - Nick Offerman won’t get blow back for “taking a role away” from a gay man? Are we past that?

I haven't seen a single complaint about that r247, as Murray Bartlett is a gay actor. If both leads in this episodes were straight it probably would have rubbed people the wrong way.

Some people are just dumb

Just finished episode three. You guys are right, that was beautiful! Beautifully acted, beautifully shot -- No wonder the incel fanboys are losing it. I cried a bit, in part because I empathize with Frank's choice of exit.

(And superficially, how nice to see real mens' bodies on tv. With body hair, even!)

I listened to it again too

[quote]Episode 3 of The Last of Us truly showed us that there is still much work to be done with gay representation. People really thinks letting their children seeing people killed in a show is less 'harmful' than just seeing two men kiss and being in love. Still much homophobia sadly.

I mean it's not a surprise that a certain type of fanboy isn't going to like seeing a gay male love story, the important thing is those people are small minority these days.

10 years ago they would not have done an episode like this in this type of show.

Overall, it seems to me the response on Twitter was very positive to Episode 3.

It's not a kids show, so why care if kids are watching if the show is rated out of their age range? Oh that's right, right wing media has triggered their brains to think gay=think of the children, which is fucked if you think about it, their first thought when seeing sex is children, but then again not surprising when you look at the long list of pedophiles who were/are right wing politicians.

Some of the offended, butt-hurt, conservative comments saying “but did they have to show gay SEX” are hysterical. If you want to get technical about it, it was kissing. Kissing and intimacy. But not sex.

I want to watch whatever this guy watched

[quote]So its not that I am against Gays at all I just don't want to watch two guys kissing and blowing each other off with one guy behind the other in sex scene. Bad move on Last of Us series at least for me. I loved it and was deep into it until that. No need for it.

[quote] This is what most gay men are like, not the finger-snapping Yaaass Queens the media keeps spotlighting.

Oh please.

Yes please r258.

Of course these unfucked incels would have no issue with two chicks going down on each other.

r241 I haven't watched it yet (will be doing so tonight), but as someone who has played the game (and is still trying to beat it), the game itself has a blockbuster level storyline that sucks you in to begin with. It's very high quality for a game, and will suck you in regardless.

So, if the show is following that formula, I'd say it's not necessary to be a gamer to enjoy it because the storyline is actually that damn good.

We'll see how they react to Ellie's backstory episode later in the season. R260

"Men, acting like women. Men wanting to be with one another, men touching each other. Their stubbly chins rubbing up against one another. Touching each other. Manly hands touching swirls of of chest hair. An occasional wiff of a rugged aftershave. Their low, baritone voices sighing, grunting. They hold one another in manly, masculine arms. Hold one another. Tight."

[quote] The change to Tess's final moments actually hit me harder than the game and the last moment was horrifying.

I didn’t play the game so don’t know this character but I liked her end. But I’ve read some feminist gamers going apeshit about the “damage” done to the character by the tv reimagining.

I thought Tess's death was handled better on the show than in the video game as well. So far, the changes they've made to the storyline have improved rather than weakened it.

I bet co-showrunner and game creator Neil Druckmann is enjoying the fact that he can revisit this story and strengthen areas that may have worked well back in 2013 but doesn't in 2023.

I enjoyed the storyline with the two men tonight, but the main girl bugs me I don't think I can watch her every week.

The irony in all those complaining about the gayness of the last episode is those same people probably love Zach Snyder's DC movies, which are filled with very muscular men wearing either skin tight costumes or barely anything at all.

The fungus from TLOU is actually real, btw.

It’s real but it doesn’t do what it does on the show.

And it never will. When has a pandemic ever been caused by jumping from insects to humans? Never. It’s too big a jump.

r269 It depends on how far the insects in question are located from science labs in China.

That was hot R263.

More please.

That fungus will never jump to humans, the reason it can "zombify" insects is because their nervous system is simple when compared to a humans. If a fungus of that type were able to infect humans, it wouldn't change us into crazy monsters that go around biting and infecting people, we would just shut down into a coma as the brain had become corrupted and probably die very soon afterwards.

Haters are review bombing episode 3. Gays live rent free in their heads.

Loved this episode but how can men kiss properly with those beards?

R273 They are. I have been tracking its IMDB rating since Sunday night. One can attribute a 1-10 star rating to an entire series and also to its individual episodes.

Most “episode 1s” get the highest number of people entering a rating number. Then it tends to fall off in subsequent episodes. Most people don’t even bother rating episodes and only attribute a rating to the overall series. The people who bother rating an individual episode tend to be bigger fans.

Shortly after episode 3 aired on the east coast Sunday night, episode 3 had a perfect 10 rating from 15,000 ratings. Perfect 10s are extremely unusual. By the time episode 3 had aired on the west coast it had gone down to a 9.7 and had 25,000 ratings.

That was still a higher rating than episode 1 at 9.2 with about 50,000 ratings and episode 2 at 9.3 and 35,000 ratings. It is also higher than the overall series rating of 9.3.

Well…as news of the content on Episode 3 ricocheted on social media yesterday, they sent the bigots to IMDB where the episode rating plummeted and currently has a rating of 8.2 from a total of 58,000 ratings.

That 30,000 people (as of current count) who most likely did not even watch the episode (since it costs money to watch/HBO…and they don’t care about the show, they care about sending a message) and went to IMDB (free) to attribute a 1 star rating (see link) to an excellent episode of television is utterly predictable. I have no doubt the rating will continue to go down today.

But none of it matters because none of us need reminders we are hated. What matters is that this was a breakthrough episode that will gain more viewers who otherwise wouldn’t watch a “gaming show” or “a show about zombies.”

Most of the people who say “I’m stopping watching it” were never watching it to begin with…and the others that say that are lying and will continue watching because they’re fans of the show and it’s a quality production.

This seems quite important to you r275.

I thought I recognized Gustavo Santaolalla's evocative, plaintive sound.

He scored "Brokeback Mountain", too.

Climate change has led to an increase in some fungal infections, like valley fever. So that premise works.

But as the poster said the fungus that is the inspiration behind this show is one that evolved for insects. It's a big evolutionary distance between insects and mammals

[quote]Nick Offerman won’t get blow back for “taking a role away” from a gay man?

Being married to Megan Mullally is possibly the highest gay pass a straight man can achieve. He’s invited to the dancefloor.

R270, thanks for signaling your trump-cult crazy in a thread about a sci fi apocalypse.

I'm surprised to see how many DLers like this episode, I thought it was bordering on homophobia. A couple of gay men find each other in a zombie/apocalypse and they just happen to be gourmet cooks who are experts on wine and play the piano? So stereotypical. Why didn't they have them stage zombie drag shows while they were at it.

It was also just boring. It needed more action amidst the drama.

We are very different people if you find stuff like this boring r281. This episode showed me why this show was even on HBO in the first place. Just a lot of action set pieces is not quality story telling, you have to get the audience emotionally invested into the real humanity and emotional stakes of living in this world. Those kind of human stories are what's compelling, not just killing zombies like some cliche popcorn entertainment.

R282 yes we are very different. I don't find shmaltz enticing. I'd watch a soap opera if I wanted this kind of TV. Everyone I know who is into the show found the episode to be a snooze, even though it started so well. Episode 2 wasn't that great either. This show is turning into a dud.

“…we can help each other and get that gun out of my face.”

Episode 3 was the best hour of TV I've seen this year.

Episode 3 was the best hour of entertainment ever created!

I liked Nick Offerman's singing

"The Last of Us" and HBO scored a huge hit with this show and with this episode.

The Incel/MAGAT/Taliban assholes who are "outraged!" over it are a definite minority. Good for you, HBO.

The details:

The dinner scene at the end fucking killed me. I was crying like a bitch, knowing what they were about to do. It was flawless acting from Offerman and Bartlett.

[quote] Why didn't they have them stage zombie drag shows

I know raght, why didn’t they done have thems?

I reckon twarnt right at’all!

I held out until the last scene through the open window and then I couldn't stop crying.

This was a really good one, too r289

This was pretty good . . .

Murray Bartlett was on The Late Show last night

r283 Did it have the upside down shooting scene (which frustrated the hell out of me in the game because Ellie kept dying)? Is Bill still the paranoid, booby-trap king? I just finished episode 2 and am impressed so far and someone who's familiar with the game first. Though I do see what a lot of people meant by Tess' death scene. It happens off screen in the game and FEDRA soldiers take her out. You just hear them shooting. This version was...different. But I have no complaints so far.

I hope Bill and Frank had a threesome with Joel when they were younger.

I like Nick Offerman even more than I did. But I didn’t realize he’s so much younger than his wife (Meghan Mullaly).

If anything I didn't realize Meghan Mullaly was as old as she is.

She was in her 40's when they got together so now I see why they don't have kids.

Apparently an extended cut of episode 3 exists

Alrighty, just completed episode 3. They [bold]completely[/bold] changed Bill's story and character from the game. They kept some elements of his personality, but damn it I feel cheated. We only got minimal badass action from him. That was a waste.

For comparison:

I was not expecting an episode like that on a show like this. Not that many years ago an episode like this could never be made, even on a cable series.

I'm a huge gamer but not really a fan of games like TLoU (linear cinematic games), so I don't know anything about it other than it being about fungal zombies. I'm pretty impressed so far, probably would have dropped it if not for the third episode. Very touching and well acted, Bill and Frank completely stole the show. I hope the side characters to come are this well developed and treated because I don't find Pedro Pascal charming at all. Nerds are complaining that the gay romance was forced woke shit and of course some are furious about any and all deviations from the game. But they seem to be a small minority and fans of the game are mostly blown away about the quality of the show. One of the best romance plots I've seen on screen in a while. Yes it's contrived but that's what you're signing up for if you're not watching a documentary. I think it was refreshing to see gay men (particularly Bill) portrayed as strong, competent, masculine, and productive. Usually I see gay characters that are screaming queens or they're schemers and manipulators. Murray Bartlett looks amazing for his age. Also was impressed by Nick Offerman's range in this episode, did not expect him to knock a performance like that out of the park but he absolutely did.

Manipulative, schmaltzy, and, apparently, gratuitous ( I'm not a gamer), but, oh, did I love this, and the 2 previous episodes.

What r304 said.

r283's reaction to #3 is that it's schmaltz. I agree.

But, there's average schmaltz, of which, in some instances, I'm a fan.

Then there's skilled, superb schmaltz which is what #3 is.

TLOU is great TV.

[quote] I think it was refreshing to see gay men (particularly Bill) portrayed as strong, competent, masculine, and productive. Usually I see gay characters that are screaming queens or they're schemers and manipulators.

I also appreciated this. Two gay guys who were just regular men, and not Drag Race stereotypes.

The idea that gay characters on television are always portrayed as some flaming queen is nonsense. Yet it keeps getting repeated. We thankfully have gotten a lot of different gay characters on TV that run the gambit between flamboyant (which some gay men are) and not.

Not always r307 but much of the time.

This third episode should win all the emmys. A beautiful, heart-wrenching hour of television about 2 gay men. I know, "Mary!", but it's true. I've never watched anything like that on the small screen before. And you almost forget this is a show about mushroom zombies.

Nick Offerman will definitely win an Emmy. And I get the episode will also win for writing and directing. Murray Bartlett was reliably good as always, but nothing exceptional.

[quote] Two gay guys who were just regular men

It's kind of hard to be a "regular man" when you have your dick up another man's asshole. Stop striving for acceptance from people who are never going to accept you, idiot.

[quote] run the gambit

Oh, dear! It’s OK, R307 everyone makes that mistake.

What pills did they took? There are no pills that will grantee a certain death.

I would assume barbiturates.

R311 What people? Every straight on the planet? Do you want to see every gay character in media fag bashed or just get rid of them altogether or what? I can't find a point in what you're saying at all.

R307 I don't watch a lot of television so it is one of the few gay characters in media that stood out to me as a portrayal of a typical masc protagonist without feeling forced at all, the characters were very believable and fit naturally in the context of the plot. You're probably right in that if I watched more recent legacy television I'd see more similar things.

FTR - all sentiment is not schmaltz.

r311 that's not the point. Lots of gay men are just regular guys and not finger-snapping stereotypes.

Wait up. So straight actor Nick Offerman plays a gay character and is "stunning and brave", but when other straight actors play gay they are derided and hectored to death and "stealing" the role from an out gay actor who "deserves" the role? Ok, got it.

R319 - OK, no you don't.

The people praising Offerman are not the people who complain about straight actors playing gay roles.

[R 302]

I have played the games and totally enjoyed this episode. BRAVO!!!!!

And I'm a huge gamer. My thing is RPGs. Already pre bought Diablo IV.

The point is, why do you think you’re any better than the so called “finger snapping stereotype?”

You’re having the same butt sex everyone else is and you are just as hated as everyone else for that exact reason.

Stop fooling yourself, you dunb masc bro (who probably isn’t even masc to begin with).

But if you know anything about gay men you know we are practically defined by our self-loathing and internalized homophobia r322. This board always reeks of it.

r322 it's just embarrassing when that's all you see.

r322/323 it's like when black people complain that they're only seen as ghetto thugs.

What is your favorite game, R321? I'd like to try one.

That was probably Nick Offerman's career-best performance.

Craig Mazin, who wrote episode 3, wasn't completely confident that it would be very effective until he saw the first cut. From his discussion with Deadline.com:

[quote] Mazin: Well, we felt really good about the script, and we felt really good about our cast, and we felt really good about our director. But I felt good about scripts, cast and directors before, and then sometimes the soufflé doesn’t rise. And with this one, in being there each day and watching the episode take shape, I was feeling pretty good about it. But it wasn’t until I saw the director’s cut that I knew.

[quote] Mazin: Peter Hoar did his director’s cut with our editor, Tim Good, which was quite long. When they sent it to me, I think it was almost two hours or something like that. So, I was like, oh, that’s probably not good. And I sat down, but I’m like, “OK, I’ll watch the two-hour version of this episode.” And I cried so hard that at one point, I actually said out loud, “Ow.” I mean, it hurt. I cried so hard; it hurt. And I thought, ”Well, if these guys can do this to me and I wrote this f**king thing, then I think it might work pretty well on other people.”

Neil Druckmann (series co-creator) talks about casting Murray Bartlett:

[quote] With Murray, he was kind enough to audition for us, and that addition moved us to tears. It was so good. We’re looking for this very specific character that just has passion for life and needs to be a handsome man that makes Bill feel really insecure – and Murray had that in spades. [Laughs].

r321 The most it did was give more backstory on Bill and Frank's relationship from the game which I appreciated. However, I dislike the fact that they killed Bill off. I guess they wanted to give them a "happy ending" but I don't consider it a happy ending when we got very little "present-day" scenes of Bill with Joel and Ellie. I especially was looking forward to Bill and Ellie bickering because I found it hilarious.

The game took their relationship down a sadder path, I think, but at least Bill survived and had more action scenes. I think I'm more irritated that he was killed in the same episode that he was introduced.

Sidebar: The game made it pretty damn obvious from day one that Bill and Frank were a couple so I don't get the latest controversy over that, at all.

R329, that was the only downside to this episode: we didn't get a chance to see Bill and Ellie bicker with each other. That was one of the enjoyable moments of the video game. The two bickered like sitcom characters.

While I loved this episode, a part of me also cringed because I felt it was a desperate attempt to scream how "serious" and "artsy" it is compared to its video game roots. I don't like highfalutin "pulp." I like my pulp being pulp. The moment it beings to take itself too seriously is when the story suffers and becomes embarrassingly mawkish.

That's why I understand some of the criticism the third episode received. Almost every episode, especially the third, signals, "we're better than the video game, and please don't compare us to that OTHER zombie series!!"

And the criticism I'm referring to is not the dumb-ass, incel-ridden "gay men kissing!! eewwwww!! wut about the chil'ren who'll see this!!!" I'm referring to criticism similar to R283.

r330 These are my thoughts exactly. When it comes to shows of this genre, too much of the melodrama tends to take me out of the story and make me feel like I'm watching an entirely different show. The range of emotions I experienced during this episode was so all over the place and can only be summarized by the following bullet points:

(Bill is introduced in his doomsday prepper bunker)

- "Oh shit, some Bill backstory! Yes!"

(Bill meets Frank)

- "Nice, so we get to see how their relationship got to the point they reached in the game."

(Bill and Frank start fighting over fixing up the neighborhood)

- "Really? This is what started their relationship strain? Disagreements over decor? Okie dokie."

(Fast-forward to Frank suddenly being terminal)

- "Wait. What?"

(Bill decides to die with Frank who has decided to commit suicide after a nice somber and heart-wrenching dinner)

- "Are you fucking kidding me?? That's it?? No present-day Joel and Ellie interactions? No more scenes of him being his delightfully paranoid, hardened, hilariously blunt self? No Ellie bickering? He's dead???"

Yeeeeah. -_-

R330 yes thank you. What I liked about Joel and Theresa was how UNromantic they were. The only people who can survive that kind of world are tough, cynical, practical types. I liked that they didn't shoehorn in some kind of romantic love between them. They came together most likely for practical reasons and nothing more.

Bill and Frank fighting over DECOR? My, my, how tres GAY of them. Wink wink, nudge nudge...puke.

[quote] Bill and Frank fighting over DECOR? My, my, how tres GAY of them.

I heard more than just some stereotypical gay arguments over decor. Frank wanted to mow the lawn. He wanted to fix up some shops down the road. And then he wanted to invite some potential friends (Joel and Tess) that he talked to on the radio-phone to the house. He wanted some respite from Bill's bunker mentality. They were going to live there together for more than 20 years, and he wanted to see beyond the end of the world. Just some small changes to gain some semblance of normalcy in a world out of control and more character contrast by the writer of the TLOU to show how living with Frank changed Bill.

The impression I'm getting from the series is that Joel and Tess are unromantic because JOEL is unromantic and didn't want to deviate from that.

Joel is the one who's tough, practical and cynical.

When we see a young Joel & Tess when they stop by Bill & Frank's, Tess and Frank clearly bond with one another because apparently they were so much alike.

But prior to that we had seen a profoundly different Tess than the one we saw up until that point.

And so that's the message to take from Bill's letter to Joel at the end of the episode.

Bill basically says he and Joel were alike, but he allowed Frank to change him, the way he hoped Bill would be able to change because of Tess as well.

But of course it's too late for that to happen and Joel can never get that back again.

But Joel has an opportunity to redeem himself through the daughter figure of Ellie.

[quote]the way he hoped Bill would be able to change because of Tess as well.

Meant to say Joel instead of Bill

R335 Yeah, the bit where Tess says, “I never ask you for anything, not to feel the way I felt…” makes pretty explicit that Joel was the one that couldn’t reciprocate romantic feelings.