'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' Season 2

First season thread, which is almost full and paywalled.

The way I screamed when Carol Kane was announced... it's like one of those things you never knew you wanted and needed until it happens. Carol Kane in space! There's also supposedly a crossover episode with Lower Decks that'll be both animation and live action? Hope they pull that off.

Is Pike's haircut going to get more and more homosexual with each new season? Even Spock got a subtle sidecut, in addition to refreshed bangs. And of course his tits look bigger than ever.

Awful haircuts seem to be the unfortunate norm in that clip. Distractingly horrid. And dialogue using modern descriptions like "hot mess" pander to the lower masses. Carol, please save this show with your undeniable likability.

She looks great. Can hardly wait.

Teaser trailer. They were lying to us about the fall release date, it's actually premiering June 15.

Carol Kane's hair looks glorious. And look at Kirk's tiny toosh at the end!

Carol Kane in space? I may watch.

Never mind. Just watched the teaser.

The show is...ok...I just wish it didn't try so hard. The haircuts ARE distracting. And the Crawford shoulder pads on the Starfleet uniforms are ridiculous.

They will settle into their own vibe eventually, first Trek seasons are notoriously wonky.

Slightly worried they are going to kill off the engineer every year till Scott arrives.

r10 If that means we get Carol Kane this season and maybe someone like Swoosie Kurtz next season, sign me up!

I don't want the Chief Engineer position to the the Star Trek equivalent of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

I do want that cover of "Such Great Heights" on Spotify.

Here's to hoping we get some Spock and Pike nudity this season.

Maybe even oiling each other up in the decon chamber...

Looks good. Although as far as "Star Trek" goes this year, it's going to be hard to top season three of "Picard."

Sadly gay transporter chief Kyle won't be in season 2, as he got a better job elsewhere.

We lost the gay transporter twink, seriously?! Better job my ass, that fucking Vampire Academy shitfest got cancelled back in January while SNW got renewed for a third season already. Tough luck, cute Canadian twink, you rolled the dice and you done lost.

Trailer!

Is Carol Kane doing a Russian accent? That Lower Decks crossover episode will be insane. Laughing at Spock spazzing out at 1:12. Can't wait for more Trek, and so soon after Picard as well.

Link for international Trekkies.

Carol Kane's voice alone will destroy the Borg when they attempt to assimilate her.

Jack Quaid.

I know people are OUTRAGED. But, if done well, a Boimler and Beckett guest spot could be a classic. It could also be a pile of crap - could go either way.

*Are* people outraged, though? I've seen nothing but excitement for this crossover episode ever since it was announced.

I've always found Quaid cute, but not quite my type. But my god, that blue hair on him just does it for me for some reason. And I'm not even a blue hair type of person, far from it.

Is it just me is the Kirk actor kinda flat? Hopefully him meeting Uhura will awaken some of that Shat magic inside him.

[quote]*Are* people outraged, though?

The diehards appear to be. A lot of people do not like Lower Decks or Prodigy.

Meanwhile, until SNW and the third season of Picard, Lower Decks was my favorite of the series.

And I’ve like all of them to varying degrees.

The crossover episode is apparently titled “Those Old Scientists.”

I just hope someone from the Enterprise crew seriously check Mariner. She’s such an annoying character.

I wish they’d rethink their casting of Kirk. The actor they chose bears no resemblance to Kirk and his dialog delivery comes off as stilted to me. But I am high as hell currently so Wtf do I know? 🙂

Reviews seem nice, my fears regarding the actor playing Kirk are assuaged somewhat.

[quote][bold]Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 2 Review: This Is Star Trek at Its Best[/bold]

[quote]And then there's Captain Kirk. Paul Wesley made a brief appearance last season, and he's in two episodes here. At first I was on the fence. I'll be blunt: William Shatner has always been a bit of a "stocky" gentleman, and Wesley is a slender fellow. It took me a minute to really connect to him... until I realized that I was being ridiculous. "He's too thin!" is not a reasonable criticism. Wesley [italic]gets[/italic] Kirk, in the way that Peck [italic]gets[/italic] Spock, and in the way that the writers, producers, designers, and everyone else working on this show [italic]gets[/italic] what makes [italic]Star Trek[/italic] so wonderful. This show is a miracle.

Starts Friday!

Can I watch this show without watching Star Trek: Discovery? I'm interested in Discovery as well as it sounds interesting, but after a few attempts I can't make it past the first two or three episodes. If they're intertwined in any degree I'll give Discovery another try.

Discovery sucks. Don’t waste your time on it.

R28 yes, you can watch without having watched Discovery. Not intertwined.

They absolutely are intertwined, Captain Pike appears in the premiere of the second season of Discovery and features in all 14 episodes of that season. So check that out to also see his wonderful flashback that ties into The Cage episode in TOS.

That's my favourite season of Discovery precisely because it features Pike and Spock. You don't need to watch the first season or anything after that, however.

The only episodes of "Discovery" essentially intertwined with SNW are "If Memory Serves" and "Through the Valley of Shadows". "Memory Serves" involves Talos and Vina from "The Cage" and "The Menagerie". "Valley of Shadows" is the episode in which the Klingon monks reveal Pike's fate to him. The rest of "Discovery" season 2 involves too much of She Who Shall Save Us All and honestly, you're not missing much of Pike, Spock, and Number One if you skip it. They weren't in absolutely every episode and even the writing of the characters is off from SNW. Number One makes a throwaway reference to the events of the season 2 finale in SNW's pilot, but that's it. I choose to ignore the whole "Spock's sister" shit. Fortunately, I only recall two references on SNW. Though in DISC season 2, Spock does wear a clingy spacesuit which shows off Etan Peck's fine ass. There's that.

Yes, just watch the episodes/scenes featuring Pike and his crew in S2 of Discovery and FF through the rest. Pike had a slightly different uniform and hair in that, which some prefer to his more homosexual haircut in SNW. Plus, you're never going to forgive yourself if you miss out on Spock's tits in that tight, TIGHT uniform of his.

I didn’t think Ortega’s haircut could get any worse until I saw R2. The hairstyling for the women, apart from Number One, is hideous. La’an is an attractive woman but her hair is styled in a really hideous way. Pike’s ever expanding pompadour was getting a bit distracting and Spock’s sideburns were…well, there was something very peculiar going on there. Sack the stylist! Apart from that, I’m looking forward to the new season. It’s not as brilliant as many fans claim, a bit too quippy-MCU in tone, and none of the episodes last season were particular classics, BUT…Trek remains comfort tv for me. I find something to enjoy in virtually all its incarnations.

[quote] Plus, you're never going to forgive yourself if you miss out on Spock's tits in that tight, TIGHT uniform of his.

Or his ass in the spacesuit he wears in one episode. The original series had an episode called “Spock’s Brain.” SNW desperately needs an episode called “Spock’s Ass”.

Speaking of which, we need some pictures of Ethan Peck kickboxing

R27, before I go and read TV Guide's review of season 2 - does it have any spoilers? It's so hard to be online and not get spoiled in any way. TV is so much more fun when you really have no clue whatsoever what is going to happen.

You’re welcome, have a nice day.

R31 you don’t NEED to watch Discovery to make sense of New Worlds at all. They are standalone shows.

r37 Read the text down to the Ansoun Mount photo and no further. I usually avoid reviews as well, I just posted this one because I saw an assortment of positive ones on Reddit. I don't even want to know the general episode breakdown.

r39 The whole point is you should watch that season of Discovery if you enjoy seeing Pike and Spock and some of the other SNW crew, and if you want to see Pike's background story. Obviously you're not going to be confused if you skip it, but anyone who likes SNW is probably going to want to see more of those characters.

r38 I want to exhume Gregory Peck, Viola Davis-style, and thank him for delivering that unto us.

I am still getting a gay vibe from Peck, even though everybody insists that he is straight.

I get a straight vibe from him and he's had girlfriends over the years, so yeah I think your gaydar is just off in this instance.

Anson Mount with his Asian wife and his designer dog that he loved more than the wife herself is more sus to me. He's wonderful in this show, but apparently a total diva while in hair & makeup.

Sepinwall calls it "remarkably captivating."

[quote]It’s beyond impressive how much showrunner Henry Alonso Myers and his team pack into each and every episode of this Paramount+ sci-fi series

Featuring Peck's wonderful tatas in profile.

TBH, I'm not really all the pumped for Season 2. I liked the first season but the 60s-vibe, episodic format kind of bores me. As someone who grew up watching 90s era Trek, it just feels rather 'been there, done that.' I know the new Trek shows haven't been the best at doing season long arcs, but for me, season 3 of Picard shows that it can be done with the right writers. The Trek youtubers who've seen the first couple of episodes have mixed reviews with the main critism seeming to be the show is undoing some of the TOS continuity. That being said, I will probably watch once the whole season is out just to get my Peck and Mount fix.

R44 Ethan Peck is definitely straight. He's a number of girlfriends (most of whom are not in the industry). It's rumoured he and the actress who plays Chapel are an item in real life.

As for Anson Mount, I think he's 'actor straight.' What I mean by that is he's straight for the most part but I think he's probably borderline bisexual. I don't think his wife is a "beard wife" though. They've had a bad, she is much younger than him too and they seem pretty lovey dovey in their SM interactions.

[quote] It’s beyond impressive how much showrunner Henry Alonso Myers and his team pack into each and every episode of this Paramount+ sci-fi series.

What's Akiva Goldsman still doing in that franchise? Is he the showrunner for SNW or is Myers doing that? And what is Alex Kurtzman still doing? It feels like those Star Trek shows have more overhead than any other show as far as I can tell. Especially Discovery feels like it has a hundred producers and consultants in the credits.

[quote] for me, season 3 of Picard shows that it can be done with the right writers.

Oh no. PIC season 3 really didn’t gave good writing at all. It was basically 10 episodes of middle aged nerd writers playing with action figures.

“I know, I know, let’s bring Data back, let’s bring Tuvok back, and Ro, and let’s see Kirk’s body, and I know, let’s have them all back on the Enterprise D.”

It traded almost completely on nostalgia and the overall plot just didn’t hold together that well. So much didn’t make logical sense, not least the utter waste that was Amanda’s Plumber’s villain, who was rendered utterly pointless by the end. I genuinely believe once the fanwankery has settled, opinion will somewhat shift regarding that season. Sure, it was miles better than season two, but I guess I’m just not overly keen on nostalgia at the expense of a good and coherent, logical story.

He's (still) co-showrunner and executive producer on SNW. Presumably also wrote something for the second season, as he did for the first.

[quote] Especially Discovery feels like it has a hundred producers and consultants in the credits.

It’s not just Discovery, they all have a veritable army of “executive producers”.

Did Carole's face get a major refresh

Carol looks great, although reviewers are saying her accent is somewhat perplexing.

Agree r48!

I've apparently SNW S2 is not garnering the same social media buzz as season 1 and Picard Season 3. It'll be interesting to see if the season makes the top 10 streaming list.

Carol Kane is the only reason I'm watching season 2. Season 1 was crap.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I think I'll take one more crack at Discovery season 1. If I don't get through it, I'll just read the synopsis on Wikipedia and skip on to season 2.

R51 I don't think Kane has had any serious work done on her face at all. At most, she's had a bit of botox and fillers because if you watch the actual clips of her on SNW she has plenty of wrinkles (and full movement of her forehead), under eye bags, chin sag etc.

I hope they do another Gorn episode. That was my favorite episode from last season.

Carol was the very definition of "ethereal beauty" when young. Even the dark circles under her eyes were beautiful.

r58 Yeah, the Gorn were terrifying. I think there's a Gorn ship in the season 2 trailer.

r59 Damn, you're right, she looks like an old soul.

Kimmy Schmidt is one of my favourite shows and watching that it's clear Kane hasn't had any work done. Also she has stated in interviews she "too chicken shit" to go under the knife.

I still remember Carol as the particularly giggly yet violent ghost of Christmas past in “Scrooged”; she was a highlight of that film. Can’t wait to see her here.

Although I think s1 was overrated by the fandom I’m looking forward to s2 all the same. The show has one of the best casts of any Trek (although I’m not a fan of one-note Ortegas and her omni-smirk and bantery backchat). I just hope the individual episodes are a little stronger this season and they tone down the MCU style quips. There were some real pacing problems in s1. I also hope the PICARD director of photography goes NOWHERE NEAR this; I want to be able to see the actors and sets!

Watching now... Kane is killing it!

Funny, adorable... love her character.

That annoying bitch at the helm, though.

Great season premiere. Interesting choice to do it without Pike, but Spock more than held his own. The tears in his eyes on the bridge towards the end, what a visual.

Carol Kane... what could I possibly say? Scene stealer extraordinaire, iconic facial expression when we first see her, line delivery for the ages, the most glorious lioness-like hair Trek has ever seen, perfect alien accent, funny as hell... superlatives only, what a genius piece of casting. Loved her inspector badge, she looked like a member of the Inquisition or something.

RIP Nichelle, you wonderful legend.

This beautiful Calgary (now L.A.-based) homosexual Samer Salem was one of the inspectors. He's everywhere these days, saw him in Yellowjackets a month or so ago as well. Bitch books.

Great premiere. Spock taking over while Pike goes on a hike (ha) was an interesting choice, but Peck played it with the right gravitas and vulnerability. M'Benga and Chapel doped up and kicking ass was nice. And the Klingons looked like Klingons! (Well, "Next Gen" Klingons with updated makeup effects, at least.)

Carol Kane's accent was hard to understand, but she stole every scene she was in. And she had good chemistry with Peck.

A season-long war with the Gorn sounds intriguing. The Gorn episodes from last season were among the best, and the Xenomorph-inspired redesign is overkill, but I kind of love it.

The Nichelle dedication at the end was sweet.

The Nichelle Nichols at the end brought tears to my eyes.

Ahhhh It's on???!! The Gorn ep from last season really was the clincher for me, so well done.

And did Spock always have those power shoulder pads? Looks ridiculous with the stretch fabric.

Why are the Gorn so ornery? What crawled up their cloaca?

They gave Uhura her trademark green earrings!

[quote]The Nichelle Nichols at the end brought tears to my eyes.

Mine too. I'm not too proud to admit it.

I also loved that La'an's charge, Oriana, had two moms, and the show just treated it as matter-of-fact rather than draw attention to it.

The new transporter chief is played by a non-binary actor, so I'm preparing for the complaints about that.

I will only complain -- seeing how this is a homosexual message board -- that we lost that hugely fuckable transporter twink. Fuck Andre Dae Kim's shitty career choices, serves him right that Vampire Academy got shitcanned.

Anyway, I've been dreaming about hair like Carol Kane's appearing in Trek since I was a gayling, and now it's finally here and all I feel is pure glee. Look at that shit! So bouncy in motion as well, it's like its own playful character.

Carol Kane needs to meet an open airlock in space STAT.

Her character was cringe worthy. If she's the comic relief then heaven help us.

r73 is certifiably not fun at parties. Nor does he get camp, which is the highest sin for a homo.

Carol Kane came across like a drunk studio assistant who wandered onto set and proceeded to interrupt proceedings with her slurry speeched sweet nothings.

Where is Christian Bale when you need him?

You really woke up today and decided to wage war on the greatness, the fabulousness, the institutionnes that is Carol friggin' Kane, huh? Space pox on you and all your family!

I for one think the November 2016 reality split was fully worth it because it has ultimately led to Kane being in a Trek show.

Did they age Mount's Pike? The hair looks so sad and down now.

Carol Kane can make anything sparkle. She's a national treasure. Love her scenes in the first episode.

Kane was embarrassing.

Like a cheap vaudeville pantomime player having had a glass too many.

[quote] I will only complain -- seeing how this is a homosexual message board -- that we lost that hugely fuckable transporter twink. Fuck Andre Dae Kim's shitty career choices, serves him right that Vampire Academy got shitcanned.

It always bothered me that they called him Kyle. Was it meant to be John Winston’s character, and if not why call him that if not to troll the fans? I can cope with a lot of the canon issues SNW has, but I couldn’t cope with the idea that Kyle somehow metamorphosed from a skinny Asian guy to a big , burly at-times-not-unattractive white blond Brit.

[quote] Anyway, I've been dreaming about hair like Carol Kane's appearing in Trek since I was a gayling, and now it's finally here and all I feel is pure glee. Look at that shit! So bouncy in motion as well, it's like its own playful character

Kes had the same hairstyle on Voyager before she got the can.

You shut your mouth right this instant, Kes' hair was nowhere near as luscious or as vivacious as Kane's. The hair science simply wasn't there back then. The way it transitions from blonde to golden and then back again is a damn marvel, we can only do that now thanks to the science experiments on the International Space Station since Voyager aired.

At least Kes could act. Kane on the other hand....

She deserved an Emmy for her scream to be sure.

Run, Lillian!

I don't know Carol Kane, so I watched her without any pro or con bias. Her portrayal was definitely too much. She stole the scenes, but only in an over-hamming way. The director should habe toned her down. An eccentric character like this goes only short ways. For future character development the portrayal certainly needs to be cut down a bit.

I am sure she was encouraged to give it all in her first episode though. She has no visual alien marker. If she just delivered a normal, measured performance, nobody could habe distinguished her from a human.

There are still some episodes to come and room for development. And I take her any time over that strangely stilted Jim Kirk.

Great first episode for the season. So nice to see character development for people other than the captain (I’m looking at you Disco).

Question for the group: Are the characters who spend the most time in the makeup chair the new red shirts? Hemmer dies in SNW and Airiam in Disco. The crew is looking very plain Jane humanoid.

Saru seems to be the exception to that rule but I agree, I miss non-humanoid or even just non-human cast members. Kane simply donning an accent et voilà -- she's alien now, seems like a cop-out. On the other hand, there's an established tradition of cheapening out whenever possible when it comes to alien species in Trek.

On the third hand, they're blowing a lot of the budget on the Gorn and we all know how CG-intensive those are. We might see adult ones in practical makeup this season as well.

I liked La'an in this episode. In season 1 she came across as Debbie Downer who just spread bad mood because of some trauma she couldn't get over. In this episode, she finally lightened up and started to have fun without losing her grit.

I'll bet Carol Kane doesn't end up whipping off her caftan and running naked down the middle of the street, barefoot, arms in the air, titties swinging back and forth, shouting "Trick or Treat! Trick or Treat!" on Halloween night.

That being said, does La'an make anyone else think she is what Tasha Yar could have been on TNG?

You'll never let me live that down, will you?

[quote]That being said, does La'an make anyone else think she is what Tasha Yar could have been on TNG?

I can see it, although Christina Chong is a better actress than Denise Crosby by a wide margin.

Although La'an never made a weed meme.

How fucking old is Carol Kane? You Eldergays are the only ones cumin in your depends about this unintelligible biddy. What's next Diane Feinstein as Number One?

Miscast fail with the new Captain Kirk. All I can see is this guy..

Abort rescue mission, r92 is lost beyond saving.

Honestly, you either get camp or you don't, not much use in arguing over it.

Ethan Peck basically shows the entire shape and contour of his asshole at R36.

Wow.

Another great episode. I’m loving this season so far, well written, well acted, and great cinematography.

That was really, really good.

I’ve always wanted a show that fleshed out what Starfleet and the Federation are like away from the main characters, and SNW is doing a really good job showing it.

Judge Judy episode this week, probably one of the best court-based Trek episodes to date. I admit all those endless reactions shots of the crew looking at the monitor is a tall order in 2023, but they just about pulled it off. The way they managed to roll the Holocaust, slavery, Jim Crow era, and DADT into one case was mighty impressive.

Those Kabbalah badges they were wearing in court, what was that all about? Also wasn't feeling the Vulcan judge's poor fit, made him look like a pear. What I was feeling though was the fabulous defence lawyer, her deep blue/greenish outfits (notice the change from red in her first scene with Pike), the bronze-tipped acrylics that look like the Trek insignia, the dewy skin, the sultry voice, the way she stalked around that courtroom like a panther knowing she 100% got this. She looks like Iustitia herself in this screenshot and she made the episode for me.

Loved the various reliefs in the courtroom as well. Some of them feature ancient peoples, and some of them present-day humans and alien species. Very neat, gives the courtroom a sense of having both a jury and a choir.

This new Beta Pike with his frosted hair, lipstick, top chef schtick and pursed lips screens tired old kween.

^ Bitch stole my act.

R94 Can't wait for the musical

Anson Mount was missing from the first episode because his wife had a baby around the time of filming that.

So they finally decided to go for a kid now that the dog died, eh? Well, Spock was a boss in that episode. To think he went from being a beloved member of the crew on this ship, to being constantly the butt of the jokes under the Shat hurts my heart a little.

[quote]Those Kabbalah badges they were wearing in court, what was that all about?

Decorations for valor and such. TOS had them on the dress uniforms as well.

Excellent episode. Major "Measure of a Man" vibes.

I'm having a rough time understanding M'Benga, I'd enjoy his performance much more if I could.

Yeah, I have that problem as well occasionally. It's not the accent either, it's the quality of his voice that's the issue, plus he goes into whisper mode sometimes.

Whisper mode sometimes?! I think it’s funny that people criticised Burnham for whispering all the time (which she didn’t) and seem to overlook the fact M’Benga literally DOES whisper every single line. I’m wondering if the actor either has a medical condition or smokes 20 cigars a day.

I was trying to be charitable but yes, he whispers more than just occasionally. I don't think his lungs are to blame, he probably just thinks whispering is what dramatic scenes call for, it's a common misconception.

Every time I see Kane's ridiculous character think she's gonna say:

[quote] I'm having a rough time understanding M'Benga

I had that problem with his voice last season for sure. I think it's a sound editing problem. They should figure out how his voice is different and tweak the mics or improve in post-production.

Kudos to Yetide Badak who played the defense lawyer. Her performance borderlined to Real Housewives camp, supported by her outfits. But she always stopped short of chewing the scene. What a screen presence. They need to bring her back.

Badaki was similarly magnetic in American Gods. At least when Fuller was running the show, they butchered her character to an insulting degree later on – that guy might be a bitchy queen who abandons projects left and right, but he for sure knows how to treat her divas. She really needs to get more work, so many lesser actresses than her are thriving on TV right now.

My favourite part was the way she launched a missile at a witness, then stormed away as the question was being answered. She did a similar thing when a judge would chide her. No fucks given. Great use of the large courtroom space by the director Valerie Weiss, plus it made otherwise static talky scenes feel more dynamic.

*his divas, sorry

Yes, I think the episode was also extremely well directed - and edited. Her walking away with a big fat smile was just on for a split second, but enough to show that she got what she needed. I am really impressed by this episode all around. Great writing, direction, acting, editing. Even (S)Pike's hair looked decent.

[quote]Kudos to Yetide Badak who played the defense lawyer.

I liked her. She really hit the right notes as the defense lawyer. The writing was also decent - really well-done puzzle pieces that all fell into place at the very end.

Also, it looks like Romijn decided to dye her own hair instead of wearing a wig this season. She looks a lot better.

Agreed, the hair situation has been improved on both fronts. Romijn's hair constantly looked slightly off to me last season and Pike's hair was getting too extra, to the point where you're wondering whether the character is a narcissist who spends more time at a barber than on the bridge. Glad they toned it down.

That was a funny scene in which Spock apologized for his outburst while Ortegas had no sense that anything even had happened.

Yeah, that was funny. Bonus Spock tits.

That enormous planet in the background is really nice, look at the way it actually lights the space inside. We've come a long way from the stock stars background in earlier Trek.

That “enormous planet in the background” is Earth, as seen from Starbase 1.

Oh, damn, I thought for some reason they were parked in that nebula where the lawyer lives, my bad!

The hair, the shoulder pads, is the eighties look intentional?

We're recycling certain eighties elements in our fashion right now, so I guess some of that filtered through to these costumes as well.

The Vulcan Prosecutor gets around.

R123 The Capt's frosted tips are pure 1968

Bitch stole my act.

Anson Mount has great hair - some queen was obviously having fun playing with it during the first season which explains why it got poofier and poofier during the season.

I liked his unshaven, long-haired look in the pilot.

[quote]Yetide Badaki Discussed How She Created Neera Through Watching Sisko, Picard, And Guinan.

Honestly, I can clearly see all three of them, looking back at her performance. Simmering rage, but also poise and being secure in the knowledge that you're in the right and will prevail in the end. Marvellous job.

She did a great job as guest star; great screen presence. This was the first episode of the show I’ve seen I’d classify as a “classic” episode. Good writing, performances and execution.

She had a real Viola Davis vibe.

And yes, I mean that as a compliment.

I hope they can bring her back in some form, although I'm hardpressed to figure out how they'd fold in a civil rights attorney...

Obviously LSA has found it's show.

Ain't seen nuthin yet ! Episode 4 : KILLS IT as Class M Planet!

[quote]Obviously LSA has found it's show.

Oh, dear. Boris' spellcheck is acting up again, must be the coup.

R133 Dearie.

Yetide Badaki was fantastic. She ate that episode. And in non-news, Ortegas continues to be one of the most annoying characters on TV.

When did Star Trek become The Love Boat?

[quote]Yetide Badaki was fantastic. She ate that episode. And in non-news, Ortegas continues to be one of the most annoying characters on TV.

I find Ortegas to be one of the most irritating characters. Even if she were written differently, I'm not sure that actress would be better.

Insubordinate is not the same as confident verging on cocky. I get the whole "fighter pilot" vibe they're going for, but she ain't no Maverick, Iceman, or Hangman.

Why is everyone ragging on Ortegas so much, she's just a brash goofy dyke. They need representation, too.

[quote] When did Star Trek become The Love Boat?

It never did.

[quote] Why is everyone ragging on Ortegas so much, she's just a brash goofy dyke. They need representation, too.

Being a dyke is not the concern. Nobody said that her dyke-y side is annoying. Just the cocky side that verges on insubordination. That personality trait is annoying and irritating no matter who would display it. For Ortegas specifically it would probably help if they wrote a scene or two for her that shows a bit of humility. That would indicate that she isn't just generally cocky, but just a self-secure pilot. Or they could write her an episode that explains why she is so over-exhibiting this trait.

I'm sure such a scene/episode is in the works. Just look at how they brought down Tom Paris, he was equally cocky.

They've done a great job fleshing out all of the secondary characters, except the Asian navigator. I still don't know her name.

There's an Asian navigator? Yikes, I admit I can't even recall her face, let alone her name.

[quote]They've done a great job fleshing out all of the secondary characters, except the Asian navigator. I still don't know her name.

If she turns out to be related to Sulu in any way, it'll be a sign that SNW has run it's course.

On a side note, Prodigy has been cancelled even though it had already been greenlit for a second season. They're also pulling it from ParamountPlus in order to take the loss, so the first season won't be available to view.

The Tellarite judge was played by David Benjamin Tomlinson, same homo who plays my dear Linus on Discovery.

I had to look her up, her character's name is Jenna Mitchell. She's played by Rong Fu. That's all I know. Maybe she's related to Gary Mitchell (he of the glowing silver eyes in TOS).

"Star Trek: Strange Woke Worlds" Season 2

fixed for OP

No wonder I couldn't recall her, she's only been in five episodes so far. I don't think she counts as part of the core cast just yet.

She reminds me a bit of Hettienne Park, of Hannibal fame. Shame that one never took off, she had presence coming out of her ass.

[quote]No wonder I couldn't recall her, she's only been in five episodes so far. I don't think she counts as part of the core cast just yet.

Doesn't Una usually take the Operations seat that this character occupies?

It's always been a bit fuzzy what those two seats were. One is always the "helm" which seems to pilot the ship, but the other seems to be an navigator who sets course and sometimes an "operations" seat - however, Data seemed to do all three from his seat, but when Ro was in the other, she also seemed to do helm and navigator, but not operations. Same with Chekov and Sulu.

In TOS, one seat was for the pilot and one was for the navigator. At various times they've also given those seats sensor reading and weapons.

[quote]In TOS, one seat was for the pilot and one was for the navigator. At various times they've also given those seats sensor reading and weapons.

In ToS, Sulu also had some of the ops controls, he also had security and various other plot-required functions.

So I assume the pilot mainly "drives" or steers the ship, while the navigator is more concerned with where in space they are more broadly and where it's safe to jump? And also liaises with those whales in Cetacean Ops.

[quote] Prodigy has been cancelled even though it had already been greenlit for a second season.

From what I read, the second season is already produced and currently in post-production. I'm not sure this is a case of the new streaming habit to just trash a complete product in order to have tax write-off. If they're serious about shopping it around, and there is a solid prospect that another channel or streamer will pick it up, then it sounds like an OK business decision. If a cable channel, AMZ Prime or Netflix picks it up, this would actually good news for a Prodigy fan. Then the show would be on a platform that is actually available for the general US audience. Let's be honest, Paramount is not exactly a must have streamer.

But even if this is what Paramount has genuinely in mind, I don't understand why they couldn't wait and simply announce Prodigy's new home. They're damaging the good before they sell it. Idiots.

Most articles seem to suggest that it's been cancelled to take the tax loss. If that's the case, they cannot make money from it, so must remove it from the streaming platform. A bunch of shows from all the streaming platforms have been cancelled, some without airing already completed episodes.

It's questionable whether they could sell it to another platform.

I like Prodigy and holo-Janeway. I also wanted to know what happened to Chakotay.

Justice for Chakotay.

Paramount is in so much trouble financially, the reputation of a kids Trek show isn't their primary concern right now. Which I adored and I'm certain will find a new home for its second season.

No Chekhov?

I'm in!

That bitch hit me with a toaster!

[quote] A bunch of shows from all the streaming platforms have been cancelled, some without airing already completed episodes.

And people wonder why Piratebay and alike are still around.

Prodigy Season 2 burnt to the ground?! Nooooo.

I haven’t been this sad about an animated second season but moving ahead since Tron: Insurrection.

^but = not

R158 Season 2 of Prodigy is still happening as it's already in post-production but Paramount+ is actively shopping the show around to other networks/streamers. Prodigy has had a bit of a complicated production history. It was originally commissioned by Nickelodeon and meant to be an exclusive Nick show. At some point that changed and the first ten episodes of season one aired first on Paramount+ (then CBS All Access) and then months later on Nick. But then the second half of season 1 has only been available on Paramount+ and never aired on Nick. While I can't find any concrete explanation as to what happened, my guess is Nickeloden somehow backed out of its financial commitment to the show and Paramount+ picked up the costs. Now Paramount+ is facing major financial problems and having to cut costs hence the reason Prodigy and Discovery have both been cancelled in quick succession. The fact the Paramount+ has already removed Prodigy from its platform suggests to me they already have an interested party. I also think it's only a matter of time before Lower Decks is cancelled too.

In other news, Canadian Trek fans just a note that all Star Trek context (minus SNW) is being removed from Crave effective July 31, 2023. Although not confirmed, it appears Paramount+ Canada will soon become the exclusive streamer of all Trek content in Canada. SNW will likely complete its second season on Crave and then be moved over too.

I’m sadly pessimistic about the immediate future of Trek. It’s a highly expensive show and Paramount seems to be on the cusp of folding. Sadly, Star Trek also has a fraction of the popularity of Star Wars or Marvel. I’m not sure why. I imagine Lower Decks will go next, as I think it probably only appeals to the fandom alone (although not really this fan tbh). I don’t see the Academy series happening. I also think SNW Will be lucky to get to season 3 or 4, especially with the brakes now on due to the writers strike. While it seemed to be a hit, I’m not sure it has brought in many non-fan viewers. The fact they put up the entire first season on a free service to get people on board for season 2 made me suspect it hadn’t quite hit the numbers we’d assumed. I guess time will tell. I hope for the best and expect the worst.

I'm not as pessimistic, maybe just a little. Star Trek is a, if not THE major property for Paramount next to Mission Impossible. Whoever holds the rights will milk the shit out of it. So, you'll get your Trek. About the current crop of shows: I feel a bit of oversaturation already. Personally, I was only invested in PIC and SNW. If the other shows go away, I can personally live with that. I acknowledge though that others feel differently and prefer to save DIS and LD or even Prodigy. To me it feels like Star Trek was abused by execs. They threw something at the wall, and if it barely stuck they ran with it. I wouldn't mind if someone took a step back and re-evaluated the approach going forward. They may be doing it right now.

There is one thing I feel strongly about though: Do something with the Legacy idea. It seems to have legs. And why not going big? Make this your next feature movie.

It's just crazy to me how even a month ago it seemed like we were living in the golden age of Trek, and now all these articles are coming out about Paramount being basically days away from bankruptcy.

I don't see why they'd drop Lower Decks unless the viewership is low. It's by far the cheapest Trek series to produce.

I can't wait for the Lower Decks and SNW crossover episode.

I like the idea of a real life Boimler and Mariner with Jack Quaid and Tawney Newsome.

I've tried to watch LD. It is boring and unfunny.

It's hilarious and captures the spirit of Trek, just like SNW and Prodigy do.

Funny how these fucks are just now monetizing Star Trek, when they've owned it for half a century.

Trekkies like me remember the dark ages, from the end of Voyager until the pilot of Discovery. The franchise was dead in the water, and Paramount didn't give a hot shit about any of it. They let Enterprise wither and die as a forgettable show. They trotted out Star Trek: Nemesis as the worst film since ST:V, and they had those awful Chris Pine reboot movies that enraged fans and looked like Star Trek filmed in an Apple store.

To paraphrase Madeline Ashton: "NOW a renaissance????"

I'm not as pessimistic about Trek's future, as it is still a major player on Paramount+, but we have peaked in terms of the number of shows being produced at one time. The majority of Paramount+'s cancellations have been co-produced series (which Prodigy was one of) and longer running shows (of which Discovery is one. Picard was always set to end in S3). Season 1 of SNW allegedly drew in the highest viewership since season 1 of Picard and to date S3 of Picard (allegedly) has been the most watched season of modern Trek. If SNW doesn't break the top 10 of streaming show as Picard S3 did, then there might be some issues for its future (certainly the budget will be cut). Trek is owned by CBS Television, so even if Paramount+ folds, it's more likely CBS would attempt to co-produce Trek with another streaming service.

I wonder how Star Trek is doing in terms of enlarging its audience. Are the new shows able to acquire new ST fans. I'm guessing they do to a certain extend. But would love to get my hands on benchmark numbers.

R170 That's their mistake. Star Trek was never meant to appeal to such a broad audience - and certainly not to today's infinitely-broad and infinitely-impatient audience.

They look at this property and ask "How can I get EVERYONE to love this?" But that's impossible, and any attempt to do so results in garbage that's not really Trek anymore.

Remember the first two seasons of Picard, when they tried to appeal to youngsters and hipsters with a bunch of bullshit stories no one remembered or followed? It was a disaster. Then they had a third season with the original cast, some fantastic stories, and villains for the ages, and people LOVED IT.

Lesson learned: Stick with the basics. Let Star Trek be Star Trek, and anyone who doesn't like it can go find another Paramount property to enjoy.

I’m so glad The Michael Burnham show is ending.

Am I the only one who has a major problem with Una’s makeup? Why is it so greasy? It makes her look sweaty. And her eyebrows look like they were drawn on with crayons.

Not greasy, dewy; it's the look everyone is going for these days. The matte look has been ejected into SPACE!

I'm ordering the Trek talons next time I'm getting my nails did, completely obsessed with them. I want to virtue signal that I am a proud Trekkie and also that no one is above the law, not even DJT.

Might get that fabulous wig too, while I'm at it.

Nice episode. Not as good as the first two but still classic Trek. The highlight is the last scene in La’an’s room when she contacts James and breaks down. It salvaged what would have been a very average/meh episode.

Good time-travelling episode. I agree that La'an breaking down at the very end was the highlight, and coming from such a cold character as well.

Loved the "it's Toronto, not New York" gag. It worked on so many levels, chief among them being The Shat's Canadian roots. Very cute. As was the "drive more carefully in the future" line.

Kirk's toosh looked SO GOOD in that uniform. Actually, everyone's butt looks amazing in new Trek. Paul Wesley honestly IS Kirk, even though he doesn't quite have the same screen presence as Shatner.

I like to think of this episode as a wink to ENT's Romulan arc which was left unresolved. I'm only passingly familiar with Khan, but that Indian child looked precious as hell. I just want to sit him on my lap and groom him into NOT becoming a genocidal maniac.

Did you notice how that temporal agent at the end was not carrying a badge, had earrings, and her skirt was wrinkled? Some things are very different in the future.

Carol Kane once again delights. She was like a warm sun in that chilly hellscape that is Vermont.

Not a bad episode but keeping it real, probably my least favorite thus far. Next episode needs to be the entire cast, including the Captain.

Good episode overall that developed La'an's character well. But a "Star Trek" series going to the time travel plot well is kind of hacky at this point. Paul Wesley has Kirk's swagger down but isn't as hammy as Shatner.

R177 I think this has been discussed before but apparently the "seats" of the men's uniforms on Discovery and SNW are slightly padded (as are the chests and shoulders) to avoid bunching up and wrinkling. Doug Jones has talked about the costume designer and him deciding not to pad his uniform in order to give Saru a more alien look. Also I believe Anson Mount has made a joke or two on twitter about being afraid of farting in his uniform for fear the padding is flammable.

r180 Oh yeah, I know they're generally padded in New Trek. Discovery went overboard several times in that regard and made them look like fucking shelves. However, I don't think Wesley's was padded in this episode as it looked completely natural, like a long taut toosh of a slender guy. Or maybe they just finally nailed the padding science.

Spock made a brief appearance and of course his abs were jutting out from underneath that comfy teal sweater he was wearing. No padding there!

Stop with Khan.

Stop with Data and all the Soongs.

Stop with the mirror universe.

Sorry boys but yes the SNW uniforms are padded. Like R180 pointed out Anson Mount, and also Jason Isaacs before him, have all made jokes about it. The padding itself is probably part of their underwear as its the stuff of legend that "Starfleet undies" have be specially designed so they don't give visible panty lines.

It has been clarified by now that we're all aware they're padded. We just don't know whether they make an exception here and there for guest actors, that's all. I don't think Wesley's was padded, for example.

I retract my prior opinion. Paul Wesley is a good Kirk. He can stay.

R185 ^

Bitch stole my act.

[quote]Paul Wesley honestly IS Kirk, even though he doesn't quite have the same screen presence as Shatner.

I find him lacking the charisma and bravado that Kirk should have. Between Pine and Wesley, Pine is better although neither are Shatner.

I like Qunto's Spock, but have to say that I prefer Peck's now although the character is written a bit too overwrought and emotional for my tastes.

Totally agree with r188!

I Stole the Good Bitch's Act.

Paul Wesley (you have to use both names or things get very confused) seems kind of dull in person. The interview he did on this week's Ready Room was charmless. As contrasted with Ethan Peck's relaxed and engaging appearances, for example.

^ Bitch Stole My Act

I haven't taken a math class since Pythagoras made the crap up!

Pike is back not even five minutes and Pelia is already causing trouble. I wonder if he and Una are annoyed that *they* now have to deal with Spock's spur-of-the-moment hire. Love that she's keeping her inspector badge in addition to her combadge.

[quote]Paul Wesley (you have to use both names or things get very confused)

Yeah, I realised that as soon as I posted an earlier reply, haha. He does seem very Hallmark-ish. Or maybe he just isn't going gaga over a guest role on a show that might not even get a third season, which is understandable.

[quote]Or maybe he just isn't going gaga over a guest role on a show that might not even get a third season

Ahem.

I know it's been renewed (I posted the news here first), I also know it started filming before the WGA strike halted the production, but there's been some talk all these Paramount troubles might mean the third season just gets scrapped, Prodigy-style.

[quote]I wonder if he and Una are annoyed that *they* now have to deal with Spock's spur-of-the-moment hire.

There is absolutely no way that Pike or Una would have to put up with any officer, especially chief engineer, that they didn't want. No ship's captain would, and Pike would go along with anything Una decided as the first officer.

Or maybe they were just too embarrassed to tell Spock his instincts were wrong and now they're stuck humouring him for the rest of the season.

I think Wesley is good, but he isn't Kirk. I don't see that at all. Chris Pine, yes, I can buy into that. But Wesley is lacking the Kirk swagger completely. Not his fault. It's a casting error.

The episode isn't groundbreaking either. It was entertaining, but at times it seemed like it didn't know whether it wanted to be a comedy, a Hallmark movie or just a amalgamation of lots of Trek Travel shows. Love La'ani this season though. They really worked hard to get her into a three dimensional character, and it works. One of my favorite SNW characters now.

Wesley’s performance was good, but I had to keep reminding myself it was meant to be James T Kirk. He was better than his first appearance but he just does not have a Kirk vibe whatsoever.

The episode was fine, although giving me Picard season 2, which is not a good thing. It’s unfortunate they had to do a time travel to contemporary Earth again so soon but thank goodness it was just a single episode and not the whole fucking season.

I liked La’an from the start; the actress has shone in virtually every scene she’s been in and has some good comic timing too. Pelia is a genuinely refreshing and offbeat character; she’s like a cross between Guinan and Quark here. Carol Kane’s line delivery is killing me though; I have to concentrate furiously to understand a word she’s saying. Also they could have done something to make the character look a bit different in the past sequence. Who has the exact same hairstyle for three hundred years?

The undercover Romulan was a really bad performance; did not act Romulan-esque at ALL once revealed.

I thought the last episode was OK but also a sign that the show’s production budget has been cut from the first season.

The show is shot in a studio in Toronto. This episode felt like they needed some inexpensive location shots so just went outdoors for a few days, and “that’s a wrap!”.

Also a lot of things didn’t make sense, e.g somehow they made it more than 1,000km to Vermont and “bribed” border guards (on both sides of the border) to get there, then returned, stayed in a luxury hotel, all using the few bucks Kirk earned playing chess in a park. Right…..

I mean, how many episodes of Trek take place in those exact same caves in California in order to keep the costs down? This is the first Trek episode set in Toronto, can't really fault it for that.

These last 2 episodes were kinda boring. Paging the Gorn! Paging the Gorn!

Another classic Trek episode. Not classic in the sense that it was particularly interesting or infinitely rewatchable, but in the sense that it gave me this familiar fuzzy feeling I used to get watching VOY/ENT after coming back from school. This is Trek comfort food at its best. The purple lighting on the planet only added to the soothing vibe.

Bit of a cop-out to present this as Ortega's episode when she basically had zero character development. I did enjoy her using the computer as a motivational tool, though.

Pike said a single asteroid changing the course of history on that planet for thousands of years wasn't natural development and Spock said that logic felt sound to him. Is it just me or is that logic not sound at all? Our own planet's history was changed by an asteroid, and long before the dinosaurs by city-sized asteroids which melted the rocky surface and made way for life. Plus, we're constantly being bombarded by meteors and cosmic radiation. Sounds perfectly natural to me.

It occurred to me that the one thing missing here we'd usually get on other Trek shows was the obligatory android/holo/alien character who was unaffected by the radiation.

People are pointing out that the VR wall was super noticeable, but I personally enjoyed the design. Especially the juxtaposition of that barren terrain and the palace jutting out of nowhere. Wonder which church in Toronto they used for the interior shots.

You pathetic Treckers will lap up any shite they serve you as long as it has pointed ears. This series has gone down hill fast. Doubt there will be a 3rd season. Beam me out.

Haven’t seen the new episode yet, but now it’s been mentioned…I don’t like the AR wa for the simple fact it’s always so noticeable they’re using it; you can see the curvature and where the set ends and the wall begins. If anything it actually pulls me out of the episode a bit. I don’t even see why it’s needed unless to cut costs? The visual fx in the early seasons of Discovery were perfectly fine to my eye.

^ AR *wall

Good episode overall, but I have to admit my attention wandered a few times. It was nice Ortegas got a moment to shine.

Pike's logic about removing the asteroid not interfering with the Prime Directive was flawed. But it wouldn't be the first time a starship captain came up with a questionable reason to violate the Prime Directive.

I'm going to do my best to forget this stinker of an episode.

Ortega is fucking annoying!

I do like the L’an character. She’s the most damaged and therefore interesting. The actress is good.

La’an is great. Ortegas needs to go, I can’t stand the constant SMIRK.

I really wasn't feeling La'an last season but that episode with Kirk really allowed her to shine and show off that actress's skills.

Completely changed my opinion of her.

Alzheimer Trek

How does this dyke helmsperson get a 1000 ft , 200,000 GRT spaceship to behave like a WWI bi-plane?. Doing rolls and loops yet none of the 500 crewmen are hurled around like bowling pins? Ridiculouski.

Sean's Ups and Downs was pretty accurate about the downs. I would have given fewer ups.

Does Ortegas have the worst hairstyle on television right now?

This is how all the stylish dykes are sporting their hair these days, and have for some time.

Honestly, the way y'all are riding her jock is very amusing. You must have all been arsty fartsy homos back in school. As someone who was always a huge goofball instead and was often (well, always) rejected by said artsy fartsy gays, I find her very relatable. She's aspie-ish, but not in a sinister way like Reginald Barclay.

r217, it’s horrendous!

r218, I don't necessarily believe that Ortegas (presumably) being a dyke is the real problem with her. To me it looks like they haven't figured Ortegas out yet, and neither has the actress.

Sure, the haircut isn't flattering, but that's not it. It's more that the character feels out of place in that particular role as a pilot. If she was somebody's daughter and just happened to be on the ship, I would understand that she doesn't 'speak Starfleet'. But she is Starfleet. She was in the academy, was an ensign, and now is helming one of the best ships in Starfleet. I would assume that individual to be more formal. Instead she acts like a teenager with toys. She flies the Enterprise with ease (when did she get the skills and experience?) like a video game. She doesn't fly it, like somebody said upthread, with the earnestness that comes from the responsibility keeping two hundred individuals save. That scene with the costume and the hat made her look like she was giddy going on a field trip. There is something missing about her that the viewers don't know yet. It's about time that the writers fill that gap.

Picard would never have tolerated her cocky backchat on the Enterprise. “You just pilot the ship, ensign, and I’ll thank you to shut the fuck up.”

Is no one going to mention Ansom Mount’s bald spot? For someone with such a gravity defying fringe I was shocked.

R213, we also learned La'an likes dick.

R215, Enterprise has anti-gravity technology. Makes crew stay pretty stable.

Actually, they claim it's inertial dampeners. Otherwise they'd be squished like bugs every time they accelerate//decelerate.

I noticed that, too, R222. The hair department parted his hair on the other side, so maybe that caused it to be visible.

Is Anson’s hair as fake as Shatner’s then? I don’t know what to believe anymore…

r221, can you imagine what Sisko would’ve said? 😂

[quote][R221], can you imagine what Sisko would’ve said?

Sisko or Picard are nothing.

If it had been Deanna she would EJECT them out an airlock.

r229, 😂😂😂

More and more I get the feeling that SNW simply wants to recycle TOS and TNG ideas with modern production tools. They probably think that the target audience, Gen Z, never watched TOS anyway. They might be right, but still...

[quote]More and more I get the feeling that SNW simply wants to recycle TOS and TNG ideas with modern production tools. They probably think that the target audience, Gen Z, never watched TOS anyway. They might be right, but still...

I will say that there is a flaw in the pacing of SNW - or at least it doesn't organize scenes, sequences, and acts in the same rythym as ToS, TNG, DS9, or VOY.

The older shows had a particular rythym as to when and how acts would turn, when a set back would happen, and how the drama reached its climax. Both Disco and SNW don't quite hit, so some sections seem a bit drawn out while climaxes are usually rushed and are often tepid.

I’d agree R231. The first season had a real lack of originality (they essentially redid Balance of Terror not once but twice) and it has continued this season. This week was the Starfleet Officer goes mad, takes control of a primitive world and causes cultural contamination. I think they already did that half a dozen times in the original series. Last week was the obligatory time travel to contemporary Earth with a kind of anti-City on the Edge of Forever twist and finding help from a crew member who just happens to live there completely unchanged from their future self (first Guinan, now Pelia). I enjoy the show but in my mind it’s a reboot that borrows liberally from past Star Trek elements.

R231 That's also my issue with SNW and despite loving the cast, just can't get into it. I think you are right that SNW specifically is targeted towards a younger audience not as familiar with the T0S/TNG-era episodic format and also to older fans who don't like serialized storytelling. SNW's format allows new viewers to just pop in and not really worry about the huge history of the franchise.

SNW is indicative of my issue with the modern-era of Trek in general, the continual reliance on what has come before rather than doing something fresh. If you look at all the Trek series from Disco onward, they are all tied to the franchise's past. Disco was a prequel (then of course they tried to reboot the show in season 3 to something totally different which is what the show probably should've been from day 1). Picard, well that's self-explanatory. SNW is a TOS-prequel (the third in the franchise's history). LD is basically comedic TNG, and Prodigy brings back Janeway and a lot of Voyager related things.

R233 SNW seems to be the "greatest hits of Trek" series. As R234 points out, I think the cast of SNW is exceptionally strong, but they are kind of wasted on retelling stories we've already seen (in some cases several times over). I do think part of the retelling issue is down to Akiva Goldsman who is a hack and wouldn't know an original idea if it hit him in the balls. Goldsman is an adapter not a writer.

Also I think with only 10 episodes as season, the episodic format doesn't work as well. Not to say the modern attempts to serialize Trek have worked well, but I actually find it more difficult to tune in to short seasons with no overall arc or story to keep me interested.

While I am finding some of the stories retreads, I do like the idea of this past episode.

In The Menagerie when Spock was on trial, Pike had been trying to come to grips with losing crew on an away mission to Rigel VII. While I wish they'd cover new ground, I do like that continuity of finding out what happened after the mission - what were the repercussions. Lower Decks take this to an extreme, but finding out what happened after the events of the episode is nice. I want to find out what happened to the nazi planet after Kirk.

However, I want to see and visit strange new worlds in SNW. I absolutely dislike finding out that a clerical error ended up with Kirk's adventures happening. So, we know all about the Gorn, but the attack on Cestus III was a complete surprise and Kirk was "shocked, shocked, I tell you" and had no idea what creature he was fighting after?

Gorn, Tholians, and many other aliens were all new to Kirk. There was a time when the Borg were new and exciting enemies. How about we go back to introducing new, dangerous, and exciting aliens.

I’m finding the same issue with the episodic approach. It’s not engaging me quite as much as I’d hoped. Maybe it’s the fact we’re basically getting Trek’s greatest hits adapted for a different age. I don’t expect that to change given the success of Picard s3: it seems the fans want familiarity and nostalgia above all.

I also love the SNW cast and think it’s the strongest Trek has had since DS9 back in the 90’s (I was gonna say two decades ago, but it’s actually 30 years old now; how can that be?!). I’d like to see less callbacks to the past and more innovation. More of the Strange New Worlds from the title.

I got flamed on Trek Reddit the other day for airing my critism that while I enjoy SNW (it's a bit like comfort Trek) to me it feels dated despite it's high calibre production. I think, as others have pointed out, it's down to the storytelling. I'm in my early 40s, and I grow up on Berman era Trek and SNW feels like it would've easily fit in during the 90s. I really enjoyed the first half of season one, but once the novelty of a new Trek show wore off, it was "meh" for me. And this season, is just not grabbing me at all.

The television landscape has changed and I guess, as others have stated, the completely episodic format just doesn't work for me anymore. R237 S3 of Picard for all its nostalgia managed to keep me interested because at least the story gripped me (I would say that was more true of the first half of the season over the second), it was what kept me coming back each week. SNW lacks that hook.

Yeah, I hear you, R238, I don’t bother with Reddit anymore. If you don’t adhere to the groupthink it can be rough there’! I think the DS9 approach was best; threads and story arcs that were woven across the seasons while maybe 70% still episodic. I feel a tv show does need a hook in this day and age, even if it’s just a thread that’s causally woven across the episodes. Dr Who also used to do that well. While episodic it gradually built momentum toward a season finale which tied everything together.

I don’t expect hack Akiva Goldsman to be okay with this but maybe they should consider bringing back ST’s best show runners Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Bauer to do either a DS9 reboot or another ST show set in PICARD’s timeline.

I really hope they do the series with Michelle Yeoh...She plays a cold bitch so well...I have two Boston's names Odo and Neelix so I'm on the train of any Trek is better than none

Michelle Yeoh was sublimely camp, one of the highlights of Discovery for me. It’s only meant to be a TV movie now, which would do me just fine. Whether the funds are still there given P+ misfortunes is another matter, however.

[Quote] I have two Boston's names Odo and Neelix …

So one dog you like and the other is annoying?

[quote] maybe they should consider bringing back ST’s best show runners Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Bauer to do either a DS9 reboot or another ST show set in PICARD’s timeline.

I was so hoping that for Discovery. DSC is based on a good idea; it's just the writing that cannot pull it off. That show really would have benefitted by writing from Ira Behr, Ron Moore, Robert Hewitt Wolfe and some others. Maybe they were asked and declined. Their legacy is not exactly universally acclaimed. Maybe they thought that the risk was not worth the effort. I would hand over the entire franchise to them.

[quote]I don’t expect hack Akiva Goldsman to be okay with this but maybe they should consider bringing back ST’s best show runners Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Bauer to do either a DS9 reboot or another ST show set in PICARD’s timeline.

Dear god, no. While the may have presided over the the silver age of Trek, they also presided over it's downfall.

If they're going to continue to Picard timeline, Terry Matalas should be given his shot after proving himself with Picard S3, not go running back to folks who themselves showed their ideas had run dry.

I was in the hospital for the last few days, and particularly when I was on bedrest, I found myself skipping back to episodes of Enterprise, of all things, including some that I hadn't seen before.

I know we've somehow collectively retconned it into the good era, but honestly, some of it struck me as much less Not Star Trek than any of the supposed complaints about the contemporary series. I watched a season 2 episode called "The Crossing" for the first time. Briefly, a bunch of non-corporeal aliens are taking control of the Enterprise crew members, but we eventually learn that it's in part because they're dying. So, what is Archer's solution? Force them all out of the crew (reasonable response) and then blow up their ship. There was never even a moment of considering finding a way to help them.

It was galling.

ENT's season 2 was before 9/11, right? I remember that the Xindi arc got itself caught into all that neocon shit that was going on back then. There were lots of episodes in season 3 that simply followed the revenge urge, no questions asked.

[quote]ENT's season 2 was before 9/11, right? I remember that the Xindi arc got itself caught into all that neocon shit that was going on back then. There were lots of episodes in season 3 that simply followed the revenge urge, no questions asked.

No, the pilot was actually pushed back a few weeks because of 9/11. So we were well over a year out at that point.

I understand what it's reactionary to, and the Xindi story (which does end with them forming a coalition with some of the Xindi species as well as the reveal that the Xindi will eventual join the Federation) is still one I mostly like, but it shocked me that they. didn't even pay lip service to the idea that there might be another way, even if unsuccessful. That's far more a slap in the face to Trek's legacy than 95% of the contemporary series.

[quote]Dear god, no. While the may have presided over the the silver age of Trek, they also presided over it's downfall.

No, they presided over DS9, which was its zenith. They were pretty much left to their own devices because Rick Berman mostly ignored DS9 after Voyager came on the air. He had almost no writing credits prior to Enterprise, but he somehow ended up with his name on about 75% of Enterprise's first two seasons.

My opinion of the man has softened a little over the years, because I do look on him as a guy who truly loved his job, but he was a money guy, not a creative, and it's a severe rewrite of history to pretend that people weren't dissatisfied with him at the time. Similar issue with Brannon Braga--who was a decent writer when working with a strong partner like Moore--who's at least been spending the last fifteen or so years acknowledging what they'd fucked up.

Thank you VotD. At this point in time, the DS9 hate is TIRED!

R245 In fairness, Ira Behr and Ronald D. Moore's involvement had nothing to do with Star Trek following the finale of DS9 (Moore joined the writing staff for Voyager but quit after writing a total of one episode because he didn't agree with the direction of the show). But if the Star Trek Legacy series pans out, you can bet it's going to be Matlas who runs it.

Akiva Goldsman should have been fired after the dumpster fire that was the second season of Picard. He is a dreadful writer and I don't understand why he keeps getting hired.

Also, let’s not forget that Ronald D. Moore went on to become show runner and main writer for the Battlestar Galactica reboot which is widely considered to be one of the best TV series ever made.

Ron Moore is hot.

I'd love to be fucked silly by that talented bear!

WTF Capt. Julia Child

[quote] Ron Moore is hot.

I always felt the same about Robert Hewitt Wolfe. Even today.

Robert Hewitt Wolfe is definitely hot. Ron Moore aged well but I can’t ever forget that horrendous mullet and oversized glasses he had in the 80’s/90’s?

[quote]Akiva Goldsman should have been fired after the dumpster fire that was the second season of Picard. He is a dreadful writer and I don't understand why he keeps getting hired.

This is true, but Kurtzman, like JJ Abrams, seems to be more concerned about employing his buddies.

As long as Kurtzman is in charge of the whole thing, Goldsman is not going anywhere. At best, Paramount will force him to cede control of a new series to Matalas by making greenlighting it conditional on it.

I binge-watched the first four episodes the other day. I have no criticisms yet, and am enjoying this season very much.

I like how the episodes are interconnected in ways that only become apparent as a new episode drops.

I think Lt Erica Ortegas is fantastic. I really dig her hair style; it's perfect for her. Unlike some others here, my masculinity is not threatened by her character in the slightest. ;)

Can we agree to not ever having to watch anyone navigate an asteroid field again please?

[quote]Can we agree to not ever having to watch anyone navigate an asteroid field again please?

Massive capital ships, like the Enterprise, are not that maneuverable. The Enterprise D should not have been able to fly inside the Borg cube like that and the Discorprise shouldn't be able to navigate an asteroid field so easily either.

They are giant capital ships.

You've gotta admit, Ortegas "threading the needle" on that large asteroid was pretty impressive.

[quote] Unlike some others here, my masculinity is not threatened by her character in the slightest. ;)

I have not read about that concern here yet. It sounds like you read one thing and understand something else. We don't have a problem with Ortegas being independent and having her own opinion. We just feel it is out of place at the helm. Critiquing (good or bad) the captain's decisions at every corner is just nothing you would expect or condone in a military(-like) organization. The gender has nothing to do with it. If Wesley Crusher had voiced his opinion like this he would have had his last day on the bridge. And rightfully so. She is not Number One. And even Number One would ordinarily be more discreet with voicing an opinion on the Captains decisions.

Exactly r261!

I really enjoyed the constant barely perceptible classic TOS music (muzak?) that accompanied this episode. It added to the ASMR quality I mentioned upthread already. Not every episode needs to make me think, I felt nurtured by this particular one. Simply delightful.

I also noticed a distinct lack of Carol Kane in this episode and I just want the showrunners to know that that won't be tolerated going forward, thank you.

They’ve done virtually nothing with Carol Kane so far. I feel like I need a universal translator to understand what she’s saying, but I rather dig her distinctly offbeat performance.

Holy shit! Sean Ferrick of TrekCulture on YouTube has an Only Fans and "spicey" Twitter where he poses nude and jerks off. Bear-type body and nice thick dick, and he's a shooter. I don't know if I'll be able to watch him on YouTube the same way now. He's really the only presenter I like on that channel.

Not just nudes. He shoots full-on porn, and while it's primarily with other men, he does do women occasionally which I know is going to trigger some people here.

Your shitting on DLers got tiresome five years ago. We get it, you fucked pussy that one time and now think all gay men should try it at least once. Hug your participation trophy and give it a rest already.

For fuck's sake, R268, I don't care where you or anyone else does or doesn't stick his dick. I'm just extremely over the hostility towards anyone who isn't a gold-star gay.

[quote]I don't know if I'll be able to watch him on YouTube the same way now. He's really the only presenter I like on that channel.

I don't watch his pron for this reason. I don't care what he's done or with whom the adult stuff has nothing to do with his Trek Culture comments.

Now, if he were some hypocritical rethugs pushing an anti-gay or family values political agenda, that would be different. But, there's nothing hypocritcal or political about talking Trek.

[QUOTE]I don't care what he's done or with whom the adult stuff has nothing to do with his Trek Culture comments.

R270, I just meant it'll be weird watching him, knowing how big and veiny his dick is and that he shoots quite far when he cums. He's still the best presenter that channel has and the only one I feel is a "real" fan (as compared to the others).

I hate when these threads get off topic. To hell with this unattractive Sean. Can we get back to the show PLEASE!

Oh no, we're so, so sorry, R272, that you had to read a couple of tangentially related posts. Feel free to resume bitching about how "woke" Trek destroys canon.

[quote]R261: I have not read about that concern here yet. It sounds like you read one thing and understand something else.

No, babe. Hate-fest attacks on the female characters of various films and series always come from the same misogynistic place. It's coming from right-wing incels; no matter how they choose to frame the pointless criticism, the underlying motivation is the same.

[quote]We don't have a problem with Ortegas being independent and having her own opinion. We just feel it is out of place at the helm.

There goes that sock troll "we" shit. :D

Look, unless you 𝑎𝑟𝑒 running socks, you cannot honestly speak to the reasoning of anyone here except your own.

[quote]Critiquing (good or bad) the captain's decisions at every corner is just nothing you would expect or condone in a military(-like) organization.

And yet it has taken place at various points in 'Trek.' Chekov and Sulu were always full of clown piss and pepper; Lt Stiles was brazenly offensive to the point of insubordination. And you're claiming stuff that Erica Ortegas hasn't even done. You just don't like her. To your bigoted perception, she's stepping out of her place. You just need to own up to it. '𝑌𝑜𝑢,' not the royal plural '𝑤𝑒.'

[quote]The gender has nothing to do with it.

Sure, Jan.

[quote]If Wesley Crusher had voiced his opinion like this he would have had his last day on the bridge. And rightfully so.

Wesley Crusher expressed opinions all the time. It's one of the reasons he was so hated by fans, who always make the mistake of second-guessing what characters like Picard and Riker were themselves depicted as willing to put up with.

If Pike and Number One don't see the need to slap Ortegas down, then neither should you. Sit the fuck down.

Personally, Pavel Chekov always annoyed the fuck out of me. I hated his hair in 'Catspaw,' where he was first introduced. I didn't like the character, and after fifty-five years, I've still never warmed up to him. But I have never called into question the need for the character to be there, or the way he serves the narratives. People who bitch about various characters, series, or films, wanting rid of them, are typically not capable of writing better themselves.

I'd rather spend more time and Number One than Ortegas. I just don't find her character interesting. That she verges on insubordinate just makes her less likable, but not more interesting.

I'd also rather spend more time on Carole Kane's new chief engineer and Nurse Chapel.

What I really want is a buddy adventure with Chapel and Number One. They need to Thelma and Louise an episode on an away mission.

[quote]R275: That she verges on insubordinate just makes her less likable, but not more interesting.

What insubordination? I've never seen anything like that from her. Give examples, please.

I'm getting the really strong impression that you and R261 are socks of the same user.

I really don't want to block you, PD, but you're pushing my limits.

100% with R275.

R274 "clown piss and pepper"😂

Just read that Manny Coto has died. Didn't really follow his work, but I really liked what he did with ENT's last season. That season was a vast improvement, and back then I thought it had some of the best Star Trek written at that time. He had pancreatic cancer.

R279 This is very sad news! Fuck cancer! Season 4 of Enterprise was the show's best season and probably what the show should've been from day one.

[quote]R277: I really don't want to block you, PD, but you're pushing my limits.

𝐴𝑎𝑎𝑎𝑛𝑑 there's the third sock, with whom I have not yet interacted on this thread, expressing outrage and threats on behalf of the other two socks.

You talk like you blocking me has some sort of negative consequences for me. :D

You play these sock games on all the Star Trek threads, and threaten to block me whenever I call you out on it. But somehow you never do.

[quote]100% with [R275].

Of course you are. You're the same person, using different accounts.

R278 is another.

The point here is to attack SNW, all the different aspects you regard as 'woke.' But you cannot conceal your sock game by spreading the shade across a number of different accounts. It's still you.

I can assure you that I'm not the same person as the others.

I post plenty on my own, so don't have time to bother with sock puppets, nor feel the need.

r281, you have no idea who and where I am. I could be any reply really. In fact, this entire thread may be just you and me.

Everyone back away slowly from PD.

Jesus, Poisoned Dragon, get those meds checked immediately. Normally you have some interesting info to add about Star Trek. Your recent posts are just a bit erratic. Defending the character Ortegas is really the hill you want to die on?

Why can't PoisonedDragon – or anyone else, for that matter – have a strong opinion on Ortegas, one that I happen to agree with but clearly isn't in the majority around these parts? Stop calling people you disagree with mental cases, it just makes you sound like you're twelve.

Anyway, I can't believe Manny's died, god damn I enjoyed ENT so much, through the good and the bad.

Deadline says he was EP for Enterprise in its last two seasons. I thought he only ran ENT's very last season. Braga's seasons were usually more plot driven while Coto's had a lot more character driven stories. Some of those episodes reached depth that was right up on DS9 level. I prefer character driven stories, so that was a welcome change for me. Not sure if that translated in better ratings though.

Which Enterprise episodes were up to DS9 standard? I’d already bailed by the fourth season. I watched it a few years back on Netflix. It was fine, but I still didn’t particularly like the show. It had by far the weakest set of characters (and, frankly, actors) of any Star Trek series and I think the fourth season was probably only more popular because of the copious fan service and fan wankery (ala Picard season three, only nothing is quite on THAT level, of course).

But, still, it was certainly more watchable than the first couple of seasons, which were the nadir of the franchise along with Voyager’s weaker seasons.

^ Of season 4 I remember I liked Home and the two part Demons / Terra Prime which I like to consider the true series finale.

I'd like to see Harry Mudd make another appearance.

R289 yeah, I remember that was pretty good. It definitely showed the potential the series had. Unfortunately, I remember a lot of the rather excessive stuff, like the completely misjudged attempt to explain the discrepancy in Klingon appearance, a fairly pointless and gruesome Soong story, and ridiculous escapades like Trip actually travelling between two starships on a rope while at warp (or did I simply dream that one up? It was so unbelievably stupid).

Brian Hegeland wrote a very moving tribute to his best friend Manny.

[quote]R283: you have no idea who and where I am. I could be any reply really. In fact, this entire thread may be just you and me.

I have considered that possibility. It doesn't really bother me. I could talk to you, but what keeps getting in the way is the sock user's propensity for intolerance of others' viewpoints, and using 'me-too' sock accounts to try to shout others down; his need to dominate and control threads.

Stop trying to bandwagon everyone onto your anti-woke agenda; you do not need to use multiple socks to pepper an entire thread with your dislike of Ortegas (or Brent Spiner, or Michael Burnham, or Dr M'Benga, or Engineer Pelia, or whoever). You're not going to propagate a stampede against them; you're just degrading the threads you contaminate with that bullshit.

[quote]R286: Stop calling people you disagree with mental cases, it just makes you sound like you're twelve.

Yes. And 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑘𝑠 𝑠𝑎𝑦 𝑖𝑡, every goddamned time. It's one of the features that hammers home that they're all one person.

[/diversionary topic]

Something we Trek watchers need to stop doing is comparing these new series to original classic Trek, and trying to hold storylines to its 'canon.'

Something I observed first with 'Discovery,' saw strengthened with 'Picard,' and now with 'SNW,' I consider it confirmed, is that 'Trek' history has changed, somehow, somewhere. History will not play out like it did on the first pass. Pike is not necessarily going to become a paraplegic cripple, trapped within his own body. Now there's possibilities. The biggest piece of evidence that this is the case is that the history of Khan and the Eugenics Wars has moved forward about thirty years. As Romulan agent Sera bitterly complained in 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,' "𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 1992, and I've been trapped here for thirty years trying to get my shot at him." The little boy we see in that episode 𝑖𝑠 Khan, but not the same person as the Khan played by Ricardo Montalban in the 1960s. It has a geometrically expanding effect on all 'Trek' history, which could be why we're meeting the Gorn earlier than Kirk originally met them.

The upshot of this is that what we're watching in 'Trek' now does not need to exactly match what transpired in the classic series. It means that, if TPTB at Paramount/CBS have a mind to, and if the 'Trek'-watching public has sufficient interest, Kirk's five year mission could be re-created with Paul Wesley as Kirk, depicting alternative versions of the events we're familiar with, and including adventures with which we're not familiar. The storytelling possibilities are endless.

In other words, it’s essentially a reboot. And I’m genuinely fine with that. In fact, I enjoy SNW more by seeing it as a reboot of sorts. I can accept this is a different universe to TOS just as I always kind of felt the Berman era was a different universe to TOS. If you go to any Star Trek forums you tend to get Aspie-types foaming at the mouths over CANON issues!! Even though they don’t even really understand what canon means. I don’t like fandoms in general mind you.

Well, R294, they often cite it, but they have a tendency to spell it 'cannon.' ;)

The principle of the alternative timeline was, AFAIK, spelled out in the 20th Century Fox/APJAC series, 'Planet of the Apes' and its immediate sequels. On its history's first pass, apes attack what's left of New York City, which houses the Alpha/Omega bomb. Taylor sets it off, and Earth explodes ('Beneath the Planet of the Apes' 1970). Zira, Cornelius and Dr Milo return to the past in Commander Brent's spaceship, to our 1971. Dr Milo is killed by a gorilla in an adjoining cage. It's discovered that Zira is pregnant; in order to prevent the historical outcome, an eventual ape takeover, detailed by the two chimpanzee scientists, Dr Hasslein tracks them down and shoots Cornelius, Zira, and her baby. But at a traveling circus, Zira had swapped babies with a chimp mother, so her own baby, whom she'd named 'Milo' (after Dr Milo) survived.

On the first pass, legend (as recounted by Cornelius) stated that the first ape to talk was named 'Aldo.' On the second pass, as Zira & Cornelius' son, Milo, grew up performing in Ricardo Montalban's circus, he'd adopted the stage name of 'Caesar.' 𝐻𝑒 became the founder of the revolution of talking apes, and Aldo, an unpleasant character in 'Battle For the Planet of the Apes', is later killed. Subsequently, 'Ape history' only remembers Aldo as 'the first ape who killed ape.' The timeline is changed, and the hard showdown fought between apes and mutant humans which resulted in the destruction of Earth by a nuclear bomb, never happens.

If there's an earlier instance of this type of storyline, I'm unaware of it.

May he rest in peace, but Trekkies on Reddit saying Manny saved ENT with that fourth season annoy me, the Xindi arc for me was even more awesome. I wanted Kiaphet Amman'sor to be my fag hag so bad growing up, she was fab. Even logistical issues surrounding hauling her substantial aquatic ass around featured in my fantasies, though that's largely been resolved now thanks to FaceTime and whatnot.

Another great episode. Spock as a human and Spock as a Vulcan. Either way, take me and defile me you sexy bastard.

Thankfully I’m not one of the posters upthread who get their panties in a twist over cannon, who wrote the episode, or whether the shoulder pads are more prominent that some obscure episode of DIS/ENT/DS9.

Just give me more SNW.

I grew up with Kirk being a pre-cancelable womanizer, but at this point, hasn't Spock slept with more shipmates that Kirk*?

*across the timelines

"...than Kirk*?"

One of the funniest Trek episodes EVER. But it also went beyond the surface level because Spock's mom, once again, injected a truckload of the deepest humanity into it. Their moment together at the end was really nice – it takes maturity to recognise that your parents have their own struggles and it's not all about you.

Peck looked even sexier because he was allowed to express himself fully – physically, but especially facially. Great comedic chops.

The alien species was so nicely done, looked super inventive.

The Canadian homosexual who played Durik the Vulcan Science Academy guy was quite cute. Although he did look vaguely Hispanic, which I assure you he is not.

Carol Kane was left out of last week's episode so as not to mess with the serious vibe too much, and now she was omitted again because the comedic onus had to be on Spock. I wonder if they'll do the same for the Lower Decks crossover episode. In any case, I understand it but I don't like it one bit.

Bonus screenshot of Spock being just completely fucking over everything. I love that they aren't colouring his greying hair, but are leaning into it instead.

I was waiting for you guys to comment on the Spock episode. I loved it, too. Sexy Spock.

That was a really funny episode, though some of it verged on being sitcom-ish at times. Still, great performance from Peck. And it was nice Chapel got some more development.

Is this the first time an episode of "Star Trek" has had a character expressing a need to use the bathroom? Or even showing one?

The way Chapel caressed Spock's ear when they kissed and the camera was going around them was sexy as hell, that was some really romantic The Notebook shit.

r302 Possibly, yes. That stood out to me as well.

I just rewatched the scene and they just showed the general bathroom area with one door to the side leading to what is presumably the sonic shower or the toilet. We previously saw that on Voyager, Enterprise and Discovery, maybe others as well. Don't think we've ever seen the crapper space proper in Trek.

[quote]R300: The Canadian homosexual who played Durik the Vulcan Science Academy guy was quite cute.

Not to me. He reminded very much of a young Roman Polanski.

I was tickled pink how much Sevet (T'Pril's husband) seemed to appreciate Captain Pike's culinary efforts.

Anyone notice the reference to Roger Korby early in the episode? Another of Dr Chapel's exes (although it's unclear at this point if he's a past or future relationship, relative to where we are).

^ Reminded me

So three junior officers can just decide to take shuttle out to interact with a new alien species on a whim?

^yes

"Have you checked the Tribbles...?!"

Star Trek SNW has made it into the top 10! The season 2 premiere came in 7th with 338 million viewing minutes. To compare, Star Trek Picard's season 3 premier came in at 9th but had more overall views at over 450 million minutes.

Still this is good news for the franchise overall. Following the cancellations of Discovery and Prodigy, plus the end of Picard, SNW will likely continue for at least 3 more season, there will be a Star Trek Legacy series, and the Section 31 movie (as previously announced). I think the Academy series will be scrapped or turned into a movie rather than a series.

[quote]He reminded very much of a young Roman Polanski.

Interesting, I got a Latino Tobey Maguire, with a dash of RuPaul. His outfit is to die for, I want one in every metallic colour.

It's funny how Vulcans are now all Indians (with a dot) now. I'm referring to T'Pring and her parents.

They're not all Indians, that particular Vulcan family happens to be Indian. Just as Tuvok's family happened to be black.

Honestly, that Vulcan queen reminded me of Joel Grey.

I'm talking about SNW, R313.

r315 Yes, me too? You said all Vulcans are now Indians? How is that statement not patently ridiculous?

Since all Vulcans are now played by Indian actors, here’s the prissy academic guy that shat all over Chapel.

Not to even mention the two Vulcan judges and the Vulcan prosecutor from a couple episodes ago, none of whom were Indian.

Oh my god, they gave him an actual full costume. I thought for sure he was naked from the waist down.

And look at that nice golden sheen that didn't come across at all on camera.

I think it's time for SNW to broaden its horizon on Spock. That mix human/vulcan is not boring, but there a risk of overdoing it. Especially if they keep handling it as part of comedy. The loss of his vulcan side could have been explored as an allegory to a severe personality change after an injury trauma. There was potential for real drama. And there must be other facets of Spock that are interesting. Isn't he a science officer? Couldn't that be interesting to explore?

[quote]The loss of his vulcan side could have been explored as an allegory to a severe personality change after an injury trauma. There was potential for real drama.

Eugh, that sounds like an episode of Discovery, and I say that as a fan of that show. I prefer some levity, not everything needs to be an exploration of traUma (sorry, Jamie Lee Curtis).

Also, there *was* real drama this episode, thanks to scenes towards the end with Spock and Amanda, who is positively bursting with compassion at the seams. The Vulcans should feel lucky to have her over there and honestly I wish my mom was like her as well.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the episode, too. And I appreciate that the SNW is not all about deep and depressing drama. I am just thinking that Spock is/can be so much more than a conflicted mix of two species, often used for comic relief.

The ending with Spock and Chapel ruined the episode for me. They really are starting to rewrite the original series. No WAY there was any sort of relationship between them. If there was, it makes Spock a total cunt in his behaviour toward her. He wouldn’t give the poor woman the time of day and we all know what he did to her homemade soup.

R323 Chapel probably shouldn't even be on the show given her first appearance in TOS "What Are Little Girls Made of" implies she was a recent addition to the crew.

[quote]Chapel probably shouldn't even be on the show given her first appearance in TOS "What Are Little Girls Made of" implies she was a recent addition to the crew.

Well, I could see her leaving the Enterprise when Pike is injured in order to help him. She could return just before Little Girls.

[quote]R323: The ending with Spock and Chapel ruined the episode for me. They really are starting to rewrite the original series. No WAY there was any sort of relationship between them.

See R293. What we've been watching ever since 'Discovery' is an alternate timeline. One cannot expect any of it to happen the way it did in the original series, so carping that it doesn't match might as well cease.

If a show sets itself up as a direct prequel and then starts doing something completely different, there’s legitimate reason to carp, R326. The producers need to just be honest and admit, yeah, this isn’t the same universe. It’s not that hard. They won’t though. They’re terrified of fan backlash.

What backlash, the majority of us Trek fans are regular well-adjusted folk who don't give a shit about slight canon adjustments in the name of entertainment. The days of basement potatoes dominating and gatekeeping the Trek discourse are long since over.

r327, this was exactly my issue with the first 2 seasons of DISCOVERY. It’s almost like the new ST TV show runners were intentionally trolling long time ST fans. Considering the high tech look of the ships, including the Enterprise, and the look of the Klingons, just fucking tell us you’re set in the Kelvin universe. I truly believe the excuse of Discovery being a high tech prototype was some bull shit they came up with when they realized how polarizing the show had became. Yet, some of the old school ST fans ate that shit up and became fucking apologists. They should’ve just started the show with where they ended up in Season 3, the 30th century.

But ThE sHOulDEr pADs aRe WRong!!!!

I'm fine with a prequel as long as the stories are good. That's all I'm asking. SNW is borderline in terms of my personal continuity standards. I think some of the continuity challenges could have been easily avoided. Chapel and Uhura are nothing like the original characters. Just give these new ones different names. Problem avoided. Enterprise doesn't look like the original ship? Give this one a different name. To be honest, other than making a product easily acceptable, I don't understand why a prequel is ever necessary. Just do it 100 years after TNGDS9VOY and all is good.

Having said that, SNW is quite enjoyable to watch. So they get some credit even if some things are wrong.

[quote]R329: Considering the high tech look of the ships, including the Enterprise, and the look of the Klingons, just fucking tell us you’re set in the Kelvin universe.

I'm pretty sure it's not the Kelvin universe. IMO, the change to the past (where the 'Khan' Project was bumped thirty years later) probably occurred during Picard Season Two. This is a strange new universe.

[quote]R331: I'm fine with a prequel as long as the stories are good. That's all I'm asking. SNW is borderline in terms of my personal continuity standards. I think some of the continuity challenges could have been easily avoided. Chapel and Uhura are nothing like the original characters. Just give these new ones different names. Problem avoided. Enterprise doesn't look like the original ship? Give this one a different name.

No, that's not all you're asking. You're demanding that the stories conform to your "personal continuity standards," and that's unreasonable. Especially if, as I believe, the differences between TOS and SNW are not a bug, but a feature.

Since they're outlining a new, altered history for these characters, I do not believe it's useful or accurate to call SNW a 'prequel.' It's the new 'Tales of Trek' on the Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike. You can come to terms with that and enjoy the series, or, like Vorin the village chronicler in 'Homeward' (TNG, S07E13), unable to accept change or new knowledge, you can go to your guest quarters and kill yourself over these differences. (A little melodramatic, to be sure, but quitting watching new 'Trek' altogether would also be.

[quote] You're demanding that the stories conform to your "personal continuity standards," and that's unreasonable

You're right. It's my personal standard. I wouldn't claim that my entertainment needs are universally valid.

I do roll my eyes at fans who are strident about canon and continuity particularly in relation to the new Trek shows. It ignores the fact that all Trek series dating right back to the original contain canonical errors in relation to the wider Trek universe and continuity errors within their own shows (Voyager was notorious for continuity issues within the show). We're dealing with a nearly 60 year old franchise with over 800 hours of television and 13 films.

Personally, yes, I think they should've just rebooted the whole timeline with Discovery but there's a rumor that CBS Television was against this because they were launching a new streaming services and wanted any new Trek material to link back to the existing library. Also, because at the time DSC was being created Paramount owned the Kelvin timeline, I think there was also questions about the practicality of creating a third Trek timeline.

I have no real problem with writers bending or evening changing canon if it helps create good stories. Yes DSC and SNW are prequels and look extremely different than TOS but that's just a matter of a change of production values over 60 years. I think SNW actually does a fairly good job and keeping many of aesthetic elements of TOS but giving them a 2020s update. I'm not crazy about SNW's writing style in all honesty, but that just because I tend to prefer serialized television over episodic and I feel the show somewhat lacks in intelligent writing occasionally. I feel like with a 10 episode seasons where each writer is only writing one episode, there's far less excuse for sloppiness compared to previous Trek eras when seasons were 26 episodes long and a writing staff of only four or five permanent writers.

The uniform tunic nicely highlights Ethan Peck's pecs.

Ethan Pecs.

I did notice that the new Spider-Man movie seems to poke fun at those who insist on “canon.” I like where this show is going myself. Unlike Spock and the nurse. I also find the new Kirk to look an awful lot like Jim Carey.

It's only been three days since the episode premiered and the closed minds shitting their pants about Spock's portrayal in this episode have gotten tiresome. "#NotMySpock!"; "Spock was NEVER used for comic relief on TOS!" "Leonard Nimoy is rolling in his grave!" Get a life nerds. If you don't like SNW, stop watching it and go back to your worn out VHS tapes.

As far as Spock/ Chapel: One of my favorite moments in "What are Little Girls Made of?" is a small interaction between Uhura and Christine after they had just made contact with Roger Corby. Kirk and Chapel are heading for the transporter room and Uhura stands to hold both hands and exchange smiles with Chapel, so clearly there was a connection between the two. Since the first season of SNW, I thought perhaps once her study and romantic relationship with Dr. Corby were over and Nurse Chapel returned to the Enterprise, Chapel was trying to re-ignite things with Spock. Remember the plomeek soup thrown against the wall? But they are both different people than they were when she left. After the things he has experienced over the run of SNW, Pike's injuries, apparently the failed relationship with both Chapel and T'Pring, etc. Spock has decided to take a deep dive into his Vulcan side. To me, I love how the SNW writers are filling in the blanks.

Ethan Yum.

Ethan Peck is so fucking hot and he has big feet too. 🔥

Liked the Spock becomes human episode. You can see where Ethan Peck got those eyebrows.

Can we please get some clarification on whether Ethan is one of us?

[quote] It's only been three days since the episode premiered and the closed minds shitting their pants about Spock's portrayal in this episode have gotten tiresome.

I mentioned upthread that using Spock mostly for comic relief could get tiresome and should not be overdone. Buy I don't think it's out of canon. Like Data, Nimoy's Spock was used for light comedy, too. And like James Kirk, Spock is written to be on a journey to become the person they were on TOS. They are not supposed to be the way they are in TOS. I think that's fair. Experiencing strange new worlds for several years should change person. So this makes sense to me.

[quote]—Set phasers to Veda

I'm not mad at you; I'm mad at the tribbles!

I agree with you R343 . They've had a lot of success with "Spock humor", but they definitely shouldn't overplay it. It's the unsuspected nature that makes it funny. I also agree with these being younger versions of the characters we're used to. I'm not who I was ten or forty years ago- thank God!- because I definitely cringe thinking back on things I've said and done. People grow and change, even beloved fictional characters. But people just don't seem to comprehend that.

What I was referring to was the number of whining or bellowing posts I've seen in the Trek community- mostly males- having meltdowns about this episode. One rotund basement dweller was on literally every post that had something positive to say, giving it an angry face reaction and typing (IN ALL CAPS!) either a one line negative comment or yet another rant. After the third one, I started blocking. Last year, they were focused on Uhura and the new actress.

I really enjoy SNW and this episode in particular. I'm just getting to the point where I'm tired of people throwing fits like that. I'm not a fan of Discovery at all, but some people do enjoy it and I'm not going to scream and yell, trying to tell them they're wrong and should change their opinion. I absolutely hate with a passion Lower Decks, and I've had several fans turn on me, telling me to change my mind and watch their show.

Yeah, it's odd how people have become online. You voice an opinion, and people feel like they've been personally rejected. What does it say about an individual when they can get majorly triggered by an online poster they have zero personal connection to? And about what? A TV show.

r346, 😂👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

R342 Don't know it Ethan Peck is "one of us" but with his frosted tips, pursed lips, eyerolls and aproned cookie sniffing my bets on Capt. Anson Mounted.

R342 Ethan is straight. Before he purged his IG (between S2 of Discovery and the debut of SNW), he had a series of girlfriends. Additionally, there have been rumors that Ethan and Jess Bush are/were an item. Ethan's sister, however, is married to a woman.

[quote] Don't know it Ethan Peck is "one of us" but with his frosted tips, pursed lips, eyerolls and aproned cookie sniffing my bets on Capt. Anson Mounted.

I’m definitely getting that vibe too.

I don't think Anson Mount is gay, but he may not be entirely straight either. He has a wife and a baby daughter now but I wouldn't at all be shocked to find out he's bi and played with a little dick in his day.

Everytime I have watched this show, Helmsdyke is always bitching and questioning orders. It is fucking irritating and stupid.

Mount's just one of those femmy hets, like Doug Jones.

Anyway, I loved T'Pring's mom bracing herself so she could unload all of her grievances in the allotted time. I've never had a MIL from hell, but I imagine that's what it must be like to have one.

But my favourite moment from the episode was when Spock started sweating from laughing so much. That was probably the most relatable human moment from him, it's just such a deeply primate thing to do.

R352 Helmsdyke, great nickname. She’s so fucking annoying. The constant SMIRK and the fact she’s got probably the worst haircut on television right now.

R353 Doug Jones is straight?! He pinged to high heaven in the interviews I’ve seen..and seems like such an adorable, nice guy to boot.

I know, it came as a shock to me as well, like my whole world was flipped over. Straight and married to his childhood sweetheart for almost forty years now.

*College, not childhood sweetheart, sorry. He ain't Macron, lol.

Worst haircut, stupid fucking dialogue, and most useless, annoying, punchable character on a Star Trek series…

Oh, god, Neelix. Can you IMAGINE the hate he’d get if the show was airing now in the social media age?

[quote] [R352] Helmsdyke, great nickname. She’s so fucking annoying. The constant SMIRK and the fact she’s got probably the worst haircut on television right now.

I challenge that last remark!

I'm watching this series for the first time. it is weird how the series is leaning into its queerness, when i can remember when the original producers of TNG were so homophobic they wouldn't even let the androgynous alien who Riker fell in love with be played by a man. Now Nurse Chapel is bisexual (which is less surprising than the fact that she's now a kung fu expert too somehow), the new transporter chief seems to be gender fluid, the helmsperson is a superdyke, and the pirate captain from last season used "they/them" pronouns.

SNW won't reach peak gayness for me till they do an episode where Pike, Spock, and Sam Kirk are kidnapped, forced to walk around almost completely naked and be used as sex slaves for the all male hierarchy of the planet. They are controlled by electric collars which also sprays a poppers-like substance into their noses so they are unaware of what they are doing. At some point, the three must battle, and the two survivors must have popper induced sex in front of the entire (all male) planet while also being broadcast to the Enterprise for humiliation.

We can only hope, R361.

How will we account for the 180 degree personality shift of "Nurse Chapel" between SNW and TOS? In TOS she was so gentle as toi seem lobotomized. Will the aliens from "Spock's Brain" come and stash her brain in a jar?

Does anyone else remember the "Voyager" episode where Neelix and Tuvok went on a mission together and Neelix had a tantrum, pumping his fists, jumping up and down and screeching at Tuvok, "You WILL respect me!!!"?

When it originally aired, I was actually embarrassed for him, and it made me hate Neelix once and for all. But after watching the dvd and streaming versions of the same episode, it doesn't seem to be as over the top as I recall.

This version of Nurse Chapel is very ambitious. Why is she still a lowly nurse and not a doctor?

Maybe in the future, being a doctor is not considered a step up anymore. (Liability insurance is a real drag, you know...) And some are perfectly content to be a nurse.

[quote] she’s got probably the worst haircut on television right now.

I don't care about Ortegas' haircut that much as long as they flesh out the character more. I am not even sure the character is lesbian. Did they ever mention it? Either way, right now she is a dedicated pilot but not much else. She needs some back story. Like it or not (I don't), she is overly brash compared to any other character on the ship. There could be a reason for that. And that reason may be worth telling. I am sure I could stomach her personality a lot better if they explained it a bit more.

Chapel was an MD in ST:TMP

Her haircut is awesome and current, we really have a bunch of backwater yokels posting here, don't we? Hill people, as Judy Gemstone would say.

It’s not “awesome” or “current”. She looks like an idiot.

While I’m in complaining mode, where the fuck is Carol Kane? We’re halfway through the season and she’s only had about three scenes.

[quote]R371: While I’m in complaining mode, where the fuck is Carol Kane? We’re halfway through the season and she’s only had about three scenes.

We're only halfway through this season. Contrast it with the number of times Hemmer appeared last season; he too was sparingly used.

In this past episode, they've made a point of explaining her absence:

PIKE: Pelia sends her regards. She regrets she can't be here, but she's off dealing with our dilithium shortage.

AMANDA: Knowing her, she's probably off procuring some weird antiques as well.

PIKE: She did seem awfully enthusiastic about purchasing dilithium.

This is their way of telegraphing that there will soon be a Pelia-centric episode coming soon.

I think Dan Jeannotte (Sam Kirk) is much cuter than Paul Wesley (James Kirk).

Agreed, R373. Sam looks like he'd be fun in bed.

I love this week’s episode mainly because in the original series, I always had the sense that Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura always had great respect for each other and Kirk highly valued Uhura as a crew member and friend.

An okay episode, we've seen aliens living in nebulæ so many times at this point. I quite liked the ordinariness of the TOS characters meeting at the end.

I was about to rag on Una for ragging on Carol Kane, but then we got that really touching moment at the end, so I'll allow it.

Kirk's toosh confirmed not padded, I studied it carefully and it looks like a (most delicious) pancake. It was almost shocking how poor the fit was when he stood up though, the pants were hanging off his ass.

Are they seriously trying to pass off the new Asian transporter guy as our beloved twink Kyle (RIP)? Why are they referencing him when he's clearly not on the show anymore, I find it lowkey offensive.

Everyone on the bridge getting sucked into space was one of the most unsettling visuals I think I've ever seen in Trek.

Pike's fleet combadge looked awesome.

The homo on the Ops this week was cute, yes?

Ethan Peck has much going for him except entirely too much chest hair.

More crazy talk; you can never have too much chest hair.

The cocktail bar on the Enterprise is swanky. That crew drinks like fishes.

Yeah, makes Ten Forward seem like a funeral parlour in comparison, it's closer to Quark's in looks and the vibe. And I love how the female officers often aren't in uniform while in there, feels like a proper night out.

Didn't hate it, didn't love it. Giving Uhura an episode was good, as was the integration of Kirk and showing how he met Uhura and Spock. Paul Wesley gets Kirk's swagger just right without coming across as hammy as Shatner.

The reference to George Kirk and the USS Kelvin seemed to be a nod to the Kelvin universe.

The Bussard collectors rarely get used -- or having their function even acknowledged in dialog.

The new Asian guy is Vietnamese.

And he's like a 6.5, original Kyle was a straight-up 10.

More of the same recycled plots we were discussing last week. A second or third recycling on this one.

I just didn't buy that a Vulcan adult would ever behave like T'Pril, T'Pring's mother, did this episode--she would never had made that comment about Captain Pike's quarters stinking (by this time, Vulcans would have known what comments would give humans offense and would not have risked offending Amanda, who may be human but is the wife of one of the most prestigious figures on the planet). However, i did like overall that the episode established that it's not that Vulcans have no emotions 9as many people think) but that they just constantly work to suppress them. The woman who plays T'Pring gets it exactly right, but the woman playing her mother just seemed like a bitchy and imperious south Asian rich aunty, and not at all believably Vulcan.

Ethan Peck was terrific this episode. He was very believable and charming even if the situation Spock was in seemed ridiculously unbelievable, and he is so sexy with his natural hair and unsculpted eyebrows. He's got this amazing mixture of a sweet boyish face and a pornstar's body--in fact, sometimes he reminds me a bit of 80s and 90s porn star Jeff Stryker in that way.

I don;t understand what they're doing with Nurse Chapel any more than the posters above do. It seems unlikely any nurse would have the rigorous lab training that seemed necessary to make the basis for the antidote to Spock's condition--even though hers did not work without the help of the aliens in the tunnel, that should have been a task Dr. M'benga would have done, not her. It's like she's a second doctor on the show but for reasons of continuity they're just calling her "nurse."

One of the things I really like about this series is that yet again they've given the captain a hobby as a way of making him more human, but his cooking actually serves a purpose--it brings all the other characters together in more relaxed social circumstances to sample his food or help him cook. And he's not a complete bore about it the way Sisko was with baseball.

[quote]And he's not a complete bore about it the way Sisko was with baseball.

Christ, I got retraumatised all over again just reading that sentence. Him going on and on about baseball should be a form of torture, unbearable.

Wherever Nichelle Nichols is right now, she's very proud of Celia Gooding.

I liked her performance, but she should have paused after "stellar nursery" in the log intro, before launching into an explanation of it. She also said "deuterium" weird. Anyway, narration is a whole different beast to acting, she might not have much experience with it.

Celia Gooding gave a great performance and really sold the episode. I enjoyed it even though the plot was basic and rehashed ( TNG basically did the same plot in Night Terrors). Paul Wesley kind of sold me on his performance this time; he managed to feel at least a little Kirk-like this time around.

Re R380, I wouldn't mind going to a bar that looks like that in real life.

When they announced SNW, I was excited for a show with Mount as Pike and Romijn's Number One.

What we're getting is a show with them as expensive background characters with each week being devoted to someone else on the crew. That would have been fine back in the days when there were 24 one-hour episodes each season. But, with 10 episodes a season, devoting an entire episode to one of the other crew members is excessive.

Spending two with Kirk is ridiculous. Kirk has gotten more screen time than Pike so far this season.

Fatso!

[quote]Kirk has gotten more screen time than Pike so far this season.

I was just about to post this!

It is ridiculous.

Next week is the Lower Decks crossover.

[quote]Next week is the Lower Decks crossover.

The clip looks pretty good. I am pretty excited about this.

Jack Quaid looks good as live action Boimler.

He looks great, I agree.

So is Pike permanently a fleet captain now or was that a one time sort of thing?

One time thing.

Agree with the comment that Pike and Number One have really been sidelined. It’s like the opposite of Discovery. We need more Pike; he’s feeling like a guest in his own show.

I’m not terribly looking forward to the Lower Decks crossover as it canonises what I can only accept as a middling parody of Star Trek (and I cannot stand Mariner as a character).

OMG r400, I can’t stand Mariner either. I’m not looking forward to watching a live action version of her. Hopefully Number One will check her ass.

R401 I don’t have words for how insufferable I find her. They did tone her down a little thankfully but I struggle with the obnoxious, hyperactive nature of that show’s humour.

r402, I got through the first season and only watched the Riker/Troy and DS9 episodes. I did like the Captain, mainly for having to put up with her bratty daughter, and the Bajoran Security Chief but I for the most part, I can’t with that show.

SNW: BRING ON THE GORN!!! This season needs some Gorn intensity and pep!

Yes, I'd like to see more of Captain Pike, too (naked).

Uhura should be court marshaled for putting everyone in danger. When a violent, delusional lunatic is stabbing crew and sabotaging the ship, you don’t yell ‘Stop!’ and try to talk him down. You use the phaser in your hand and stun that mother fucker so he can’t blow up a nacelle.

Anson Mount and his wife had a kid shortly before filming on the season began, so he requested a reduction in screen time. That's why we're seeing less Pike.

He couldn't have the crotchfruit back when his career was stalling, say between Inhumans and SNW? I blame his frau.

Glad to hear someone else who's not looking forward to next week's SNW. I gave it a shot, just as I did with Discovery, but I can't stand LD. I just don't get that kind of humor, and to me, it's making fun of Trek, not celebrating it. "Annoying" and "insufferable" are just two of the words I use to describe the show and specifically Mariner, both the character and the actress. On the other hand, as much as I hate Burnham, I do kind of like Sonequa Martin-Green. It's the difference in attitude I guess. I'm also disappointed in Jonathan Frakes directing this episode, as I usually love anything he does. I'm skipping this episode just like I skip the they/them captain and the fairy tale episodes from first season.

So many dour people here, real life of the party kind of folk.

[quote]I'm also disappointed in Jonathan Frakes directing this episode, as I usually love anything he does.

Dear gods, it's not that serious. I'm not his biggest fan, but thank fuck he's not as humourless as you seem to be.

It's an odd show. There's so much I like and so much I don't. It's weird the Captain and Number One are mostly sidelined, especially in terms of action, and Spock seems to be the only one who seems recognizable as a younger version of the 60s show. I really like the actress who plays Uhura, but I just see no continuities between the way she plays her character with the way Nichelle Nichols played the character (as a supremely elegant and put-together officer). the plots also seem either predictable (just from the title "Lost in Translation" I knew the sound Uhura kept hearing was aliens trying to communicate with her) or they have so many holes in them (like the Rigel VII episode) they are very frustrating. I'm not as enamored with Carol Kane as Pelia as everyone else seems to be; I like that her character is an oddball and a hoarder, but sometimes her bizarre way of talking makes her hard to understand.

But the energy of the cast is great, and the writers are pretty good with humor. And Ethan Peck is so sexy I just love watching him.

Jesus, I wish DL's ignore feature worked like it once did. 🙄

[quote]He couldn't have the crotchfruit back when his career was stalling, say between Inhumans and SNW? I blame his frau.

It's more likely they waited until he had a steady gig with a paycheck before having a kid.

He's 50 now, and they've been married since 2018. She ws born 11 April 1995 - YIKES.

Anson's wife is Asian. You know what that means on the DL, fellas.

R413 Asian & Canadian!

R410 & R412 Actually (I can't find the link tho), Anson recently talked about how SNW was the deciding factor in deciding to start a family as he knew it was going to be a few years of stable income.

[quote] I'm skipping this episode just like I skip the they/them captain and the fairy tale episodes from first season.

You didn’t miss anything, they were both pretty shit episodes.

^Definitely shit episodes, lol. I actually watched them when they premiered, but there was just something off about both of them. They stand out from the rest of the season, but not in a good way. I skip them when I re-watch the season. This new one though, I watched the preview clip and I found it so irritating. I just wanted to smack that guest character. I'll find something else to do this Thursday.

[quote] I wouldn't mind going to a bar that looks like that in real life.

I'm glad you mention it. We're planning to open real life bars with this setting in all major cities, starting in Vegas when we redo the Star Trek Experience. You will be able to buy the proper uniforms in the gift shop section.

You laugh, but I'd be all about them bringing back some form of Star Trek: The Experience.

Of course the humour deficit guy is the same person railing against a they/them episode. Of course.

There are two big regrets I have in life:

Not going to see Carrie Fisher in "Wishful Drinking" at least one of the four times she came through my area.

And

Not going to Star Trek: The Experience while it was still operating. (MGM Grand also had a "Wizard of Oz" walkthrough during that same time, so I could have done both.) I would have loved to have seen both the regular and Borg versions.

I'm sure the Experience is coming back at some point. They may combine it with more entertainment that is fun for non-Trek fans, like the Enterprise bar.

I liked everything about ST:The Experience except Quark's bar.

[quote]I'm sure the Experience is coming back at some point. They may combine it with more entertainment that is fun for non-Trek fans, like the Enterprise bar.

If Disney had pulled off their Star Wars hotel, they likely would have announced a Trek version already. Since they misfired (or really, charged way too much), I imagine it'll be a while before we see another attempt at an official LARP.

The funny thing is, to me anyway, was when that SW hotel was announced, I thought the idea would work better with Star Trek. Anyone else remember the abandoned idea of building a life-sized TOS Enterprise in Vegas? As far as the price though, I'm sure a lot of that was just The Mouse Company's greed. That price to sleep on a thin piece of rolled up foam? Something tells me, even with their current financial issues, Paramount wouldn't charge such ridiculous prices. Gene Roddenberry knew the real money is made on merchandise. 😉

HUGE NEWS: Paramount+ has released LWD/SNW crossover episode early

How many shows at this point have done musical episodes? It was great when they did it on "Buffy," but it's a pretty tired gag at this point.

R426 The OZ one was good, as the numbers were separate, but still about the characters.

It's not up on Paramount+ yet.

It is.

Oh, God, that was way more fun that it should have been. I laughed the whole way through.

LOVED the crossover episode. Jack Quaid and Tawney Newsome looked fantastic as Boimler and Mariner.

I thank DL for alerting me to it dropping early.

That was a weird episode. I don't watch "Lower Decks," so I'm not used to that cartoon-speed jibber-jabber of the characters (however, I did like that they worked that fact into the dialogue). It also made no sense that the two from the Cerritos were somehow not changing history: now all the characters (except Pike) on "SNW" know they will live for much longer so they will become legendary figures. I'm also confused how Uhura becomes a legend, since she never does more with her life that we know about than remain communications officer of the Enterprise and become a teacher at Starfleet Academy (Spock and Pike I can buy, and we have yet to find out what happens with Number One).

Who played the Orion captain? He seemed superfamiliar.

Aren't Orion men usually bald bodybuilders?

They need ta get that incomprehensible biddy out of me engine room!

I loved how the ensign talked about the things mentioned here on the Datalounge, like how hot Spock is and about Pike's hairdo.

I meant ensign. Also, I found the Orien captain strangely hot.

Correction: Orion

The Orion captain did seem very familiar.

r431, it’s been documented somewhere in ST canon that before Uhura went to Starfleet Academy, she was a captain of her own ship.

Jack Quaid did a very good job with Boimler, even the “Boimler scream”.

The Lower Decks uniforms look great IRL.

She looks really good. I thought she was quite a bit older than 71; she's been around forever, but started her career young.

That was so awesome in so many different ways, I don't even know where to start. An instantly classic episode of Trek. So funny (but in a much more restrained way than on LD) and full of respectful nostalgia, it made me want to binge all of older Trek at once. I very rarely get that urge anymore, but this episode did it for me. So I'm starting a new binge of ENT today.

The future uniforms in live action look amazing and so flattering. Jack Quaid with the cosmic blue hair in that sleek, crisp uniform? Oh, my. And he nailed his character's run and the homosexual power walk as well. Tawny's Mariner was just as delightful.

I'll have to stop myself now because there are just way too many wonderful things to point out. The heartfelt Una moment at the end! Grapplers! Hot Spock!

Orion Captain - Greg Bryk

[quote]I loved how the ensign talked about the things mentioned here on the Datalounge, like how hot Spock is and about Pike's hairdo.

Yeah, that was pretty funny. One day, I'm hoping some show somewhere pulls so directly from DL lore that it's unmistakable that it's a shoutout to us, yet so inside that only DLers would recognize it.

[quote]Jack Quaid did a very good job with Boimler, even the “Boimler scream”.

I thought he did a great job of toning down Boimler just enough from the animated version to bring it into live-action. People are going to whine about it, but I found the whole episode enjoyable. Believe it or not, sometimes tv shows don't need to accomplish anything more than being fun to watch.

Preview for the musical episode, "Subspace Rhapsody."

I guess if you have a Tony-nominee in your cast, especially one playing a character who was known to sing even before the series, it would be foolish not to do a musical episode.

I ain't watching any previews for this show, I'm enjoying it too much. I regret even knowing there was going to be an LD crossover episode. Took me almost three full hours to finish this episode, I kept rewinding it constantly because of all the jokes and to see the facial expressions of everyone in the scene.

[quote]I guess if you have a Tony-nominee in your cast, especially one playing a character who was known to sing even before the series, it would be foolish not to do a musical episode.

I love how they cast someone who could sing. Having Uhura sing is like a shoutout to Nichelle Nichols.

Everyone lusting after that Orion captain, but can we acknowledge the fact that there's a new cute homo on the Ops every week? I swear they are toying with everyone here who hates Ortegas.

Spock's joke about the floor in the engineering was probably the best one in an episode chock-full of them.

[quote]I love how they cast someone who could sing. Having Uhura sing is like a shoutout to Nichelle Nichols.

Christina Chong also has some musical theater training as well. I thought Jess Bush also sang, but she seems to be more into visual arts beyond just acting.

Honestly, as much as I enjoyed the first season, if you'd told me before this one debuted that there was not only going to be a musical episode, but one that I would actually be looking forward to, I wouldn't have believed you.

The all-time best musical epsidoe of a show will always be for me the one for "Daria." Just for the opening number.

I loved the animated opening credits, a really ambitious task for the animators. They even included the warp creature feeding off the nacelles.

Fucking Trekkies.

Five years of whining about Disco and Picard being too dark and serialized, and now people are like "I wanted a season-long arc about the Gorn!"

Nothing makes them happy.

While I don't necessarily want a season-long arc focussed on the Gorn, I am starting to wonder where the hell they are. There aren't many episodes left and we're for sure not getting them in the musical episode. I was under the impression they were going to be this season's villain? Guess not.

Hopefully they weren't yet another victim of Mount's fresh crotchfruit and so got pushed into the next season, because who knows if Paramount will still be around this time next year.

The season finale is titled "Hegemony," which is the name of the Gorn government....

R447, I am with you. When stuck in traffic when focused on a task, I’ll think of Jake’s God-God-Dammit and laugh.

Hegemony sounds very foreboding, just like The Dominion. I've always liked these Trek terms for forms of government that are a bit out there. My favourite one might be the Vidiian Sodality.

Hopefully we see more of the Gorn's cool ships, the Orion one this week looked really neat. And is it just me or did the Enterprise look more realistic than ever in that flyby immediately following the opening credits? The deflector dish in particular looked super detailed and perfectly lit.

They can't do too much with the Gorn (like have an all-out war with them) because the Federation's official first contact with the Gorn is the "Arena" episode of TOS, which takes place well after SNW.

[R447], I am with you. When stuck in traffic when focused on a task, I’ll think of Jake’s God-God-Dammit and laugh.

I had a boyfriend who used to do the funniest imitation of Helen's voice, and whenever he'd get irritated at me he'd sing in her voice (from this episode), "Put on your pants! we're seeing more than should be seen..."

He would also sometimes answer his cell the way she did: "HellOOOO!"

R453, I also noticed the quality of the CGI this week. It's as if they paid more attention to ambient lighting than usual. I wonder if its because they may have had extra post-production time because of the LD segments.

r454, that ST:TOS canon was blown to hell with last season’s “Memento Mori” Gorn episode. The attack on the Enterprise was officially Starfleet’s first encounter with the Gorn. Also add Lu’an’s personal experience with the Gorn which is a part of Starfleet record.

Also remember, the Gorn was mentioned in this second season’s premiere episode.

Just watched the LD/SNW crossover. Some of my thoughts:

1. Jack Quaid is kinda cute, but his face now looks like a week-long frat party. His performance was spot on. Has he done drama? I think he could pull that off.

2. I still cannot stomach the LD humor, but playing against real life, more restrained characters works for this episode.

3. I also cannot reconcile how LD fits into the ST universe. No way would these two characters be allowed to join Starfleet in the 'real' world.

Overall though an entertaining episode as usual for SNW. I don't find SNW terribly ambitious in terms of story telling, but there is not one episode so far that wasn't thoroughly entertaining.

A musical episode?! Please NO. That sounds insufferable. I hate musicals at the best of times.

Are you even gay, R459?

I’m a terrible gay, R460. But I still think Ethan Peck is incredibly hot, so I still get to keep my gay badge.

Animated and regular opening credits side-by-side.

When does he beam onboard?

GLEE TREK. Pass

Jack Quaid has definitely done drama, he's great on Amazon's The Boys. In fact, I had no idea he could do comedy, I don't really know him from anything else. Has Tawny Newsome done much TV? Haven't seen her in anything before, she has great screen presence.

I'm also one of those gays who cannot abide musicals – theatre in general makes me nauseous, with the exception of certain filmed plays – but I love a good musical episode and I have rewatched Buffy's Once More With Feeling countless times. Shame they couldn't pull Whedon out of cancellation for this one episode, he would have nailed it. So yeah, if it's good, I'm gonna be singing and tapping along with the rest of you more stereotypical homos.

Hey cunt, in case you thought your constant trolling me chased me off- I'm still here bitch! You know, the sullen guy with no sense of humor who doesn't like the trans-loon captain? Just so you can act like you run the fucking Star Trek threads here on DL? Is your real life that pathetic that you need to pick on somebody on an anonymous message board to make yourself feel better? Because I said something that you didn't like six months ago? Fuck you and fuck off!

I'm glad you hate the idea of the musical episode, because I think it looks great! Much better than than the immature humor of Lower Decks. Maybe that's why you like it: it's immature like you. I tried to ignore you, but from now on, you insult me and try to chase me off again, I will fucking reply to every one of your fucking posts directed at me. Cunt.

BTW, I get sick of how people carry on about Joss "Jesus" Whedon and Buffy the Vampire Slayer like television didn't exist before either of them. There were plenty of musical episodes before the Buffy episode and they weren't done as a stunt either. I don't usually like musicals either. Fucking HATED Glee, but that Daria episode was different and funny. The show really did have a talented voice cast. I'm sure the SNW cast will pull it off just fine.

Unhinged.

You mean the twat that's been chasing me around this board? Yeah, it is unhinged. I'm tired of it and I'm not putting up with it.

"Those Old Scientists" is currently one of the best rated Trek episodes on IMDb, hopefully it's not followed by a turd next week or the week after. I admit I'm kinda nervous about the musical episode now, but also excited to see/hear who can sing and who cannot.

R466 MARY! Take your pills.

Wasn’t sure what to make of the Lower Decks episode as I find that show hard to stomach. If I’d been Pike or the rest of the crew I’d be wondering why future Starfleet officers are so goofy and stupid. Everyone on Lower Decks behaves like they’re fourteen and eating wayyy too much sugar.

[quote]R454: They can't do too much with the Gorn (like have an all-out war with them) because the Federation's official first contact with the Gorn is the "Arena" episode of TOS, which takes place well after SNW.

See the second half of R293.

I don't wanna watch the Lower Decks episode OR the musical episode! And I hated "Mudd's Women"!

No one is forcing you to watch them, R473.

But it's your loss. ;)

Sylvia doesn't do fun.

R475 Sorry, I thought we were competing to see who was the most humorless Trekkie. :) You're right, though -- my chief grip with SNW is too much whimsy.

I don’t want SNW to end up being a live action Lower Decks. It’s only a 10 episode season, there’s not enough time and space for all these silly episodes. We need some meat.

r477, I totally agree! We need some Gorn bizness. There’s only 10 episodes per season and quite frankly, we’re getting too much humor. This is fucking Star Trek. We need some death and destruction.

IMDb features a shot of Carol Kane for the season finale with the Gorn, something tells me she's gonna get Hemmer'd. I can already see her sacrificing herself in some fashion and giving a schmaltzy farewell speech. Something like "oh, I've lived thousands of years, I've seen enough, you kids go ahead and LIVE!"

Frankly, I'm gonna be disappointed with the writers if that ends up being the case. Unless it leads to Swoosie Kurtz being the Chief Engineer next season, in which case all will be forgiven.

Rumor is Diane Feinstein will replace Kane as Chief Engineer of the Resthome Enterprise.

r479, I just checked IMDb and don’t see the picture that you speak up. Are you able to copy and paste the pic on this thread?

r481 It's in the "Episode guide" section where all the episodes are listed. She's basically the face of the episode, for now at least.

[quote] IMDb features a shot of Carol Kane for the season finale with the Gorn, something tells me she's gonna get Hemmer'd.

I actually expect the opposite. I expect her to have a cameo or guest role in the Academy show. She's not aging. She'll be there somehow.

[quote]I actually expect the opposite. I expect her to have a cameo or guest role in the Academy show. She's not aging. She'll be there somehow.

I'm hoping she pops up on Lower Decks.

Oh my. Apparently, Boimler yelling "Riker!" when he climbed on the saddle was an ad lib from Jack Quaid. Knowing that he did it with Jonathan Frakes in the room directing, and that they left it in, it's somehow even funnier.

[quote]Oh my. Apparently, Boimler yelling "Riker!" when he climbed on the saddle was an ad lib from Jack Quaid. Knowing that he did it with Jonathan Frakes in the room directing, and that they left it in, it's somehow even funnier.

It's was also callout to the fact that Riker always swung his leg over the back of a chair to sit down, like Boimler did with the saddle, the one true Riker Maneuver.

Yes, R486, I'm aware of that.

^ You're such nerds.

[quote][R454], that ST:TOS canon was blown to hell with last season’s “Memento Mori” Gorn episode. The attack on the Enterprise was officially Starfleet’s first encounter with the Gorn.

No, not really. They encountered newborn Gorn infants; but Starfleet has not yet had official dealings with the Gorn Hegemony (the political body).

In Memento Mori, they encountered a Gorn ship and not the Gorn in person. The episode you’re referring to r489 is All Those Who Wander, which is 5 episodes later. Also, the season finale is actually titled Hegemony.

I would have preferred they had gone with something like the Nausicaans, rather than the Gorn since ToS: Arena makes it pretty clear that that was the first encounter with the species. I'm finding the current version too much like Alien, including the overall horror vibe.

It's not that big of a deal. Just a preference. It doesn't really matter all that much.

With the Glee Trek episode the USS Wokeprise has jumped the shark. Cancelled

Fag Trek: Gay New Worlds

[quote]Fag Trek: Gay New Worlds

And, that would be a problem on DL because...?

It isn't Star Trek.

[quote] Also, the season finale is actually titled Hegemony.

Yes, I saw that. But its title does not necessarily mean the UFP will officially encounter the Gorn in that episode.

I just noticed all the rings on Carol Kane's fingers; wouldn't those be a workplace safety hazard, especially in Engineering? On the other hand, who's gonna be the one to tell Carol Kane to take her rings off ahead of a scene? They're probably reclaimed Nazi loot from her ancestors with great sentimental value or some shit.

I always like when they pair Danny DeVito with Carol Kane.

They need to have Danny guest star as her equally long-lived husband and have hilarity ensue.

^^^same with Billy Crystal. I'd be satisfied if it were either of them.

Seems show runners are doing their best to turn off the male middle age Gen -X incels that are the core fan base of this aging franchise. It will be lucky if it gets picked up again.

I've seen people on Reddit raving about it, so the franchise will be just fine. Provided Paramount can sort out its mess.

Raving on Reddit. Who knew.

I am not quite clear about the show's target audience and their possible being turned off. Kurtzman made clear numerous times that every show would be different and cater to different flavors. Obviously Prodigy did not have the same target audience as Picard. The other current shows probably have different target audiences, too, with some overlap. I am sure that SNW is supposed to have the broadest target audience. It looks obvious (maybe just to me) that it is serves the lowest common denominator in terms of pleasing most viewers. Its major goal seems to simply entertain - which it does quite well. Not seeing anyone who is turned off.

r502 Anyone who ventures outside of DL occasionally did. Or did you just assume your experience was universal?

[quote]Not seeing anyone who is turned off.

Me neither, that poster is projecting his own distaste onto the entire core fandom. Which has changed a lot since the last time he took a peek out of his basement.

The rings are not of Carol Kane's personal choosing--they are there to emphasize that the character of Pelia is a pack rat.

r506 Yeah, that occurred to me as well, but that still doesn't explain why she's allowed to wear them at work. Maybe the rules were laxer back then. Just look at Uhura's earrings and all the nail polish the female officers are sporting.

R504 Not the sharpest tricorder in the drawer are you dear?

STSNW = Friends meets a bad SNL skit

Carol Kane's glorious mane is the biggest workplace hazard of them all, she's gonna get scalped while looking into those plasma coils one day.

Hot Spock and Mariner on the picket line. Wonder if they're dating.

[quote] Seems show runners are doing their best to turn off the male middle age Gen -X incels that are the core fan base of this aging franchise. It will be lucky if it gets picked up again.

Can you explain this statement? Without something to substantiate it, it’s meaningless.

I don’t know any incels personally, but it seems most the male middle aged Gen X fans like or love the show. Are you just trying to slur that demographic for some reason?

R512 Nope. Just you Capt.Tiny

With this lot if you glue pointed ears onto a piece of shit they'll still lap it up. Paramount will never go broke with that strategy.

You are full of shit, R513. I now suspect you’re the irate incel. Projection is a fine thing.

I might watch as I've had a Carol Kane fetish since I was a little child.

[quote] You are full of shit, [R513].

I just blocked 513 and lots of other posts vanished. Good riddance.

About the show, I am puzzled that the show runners resort to the "very special episode" tricks so early in the show's run. We don't even have 20 episodes and we get a crossover and a musical already. But you know what, if they find a good spin on the musical, I am OK with it. They won't get many points for originality, but execution so far has been pretty awesome.

R515 Wouldn't count on that.

r517, my sense is that they are really pitching this show primarily to the most diehard ST fans, and they know what such fans want.

This was made very clear by all the zillions of ST fandom shout-outs in the last episode (which sometimes made no sense--how would the character of Boimler have [italic]possibly[/italic] known about the Riker Maneuver without watching "ST: TNG"?). The showrunners know full well that nerdy and loyal TV fans tend to love musical "very special episodes," so they're giving us another Christmas present early this year.

[quote]how would the character of Boimler have possibly known about the Riker Maneuver without watching "ST: TNG"?

He spent part of Lower Decks' second season serving under Riker on the Titan.

True, R520. Plus, it's one of the conceits of 'Lower Decks' that its main characters all exhibit an intense fanbase knowledge of past 'Trek' series, as though they had obsessively watched all of them across the decades, just as we all did. This permits 'Lower Decks' to profile and celebrate all sorts of lesser-known 'Trek' minutia. It's lots of fun.

I guess R519 has never watched 'Lower Decks,' or he'd have known that aspect of it.

What an episode. All the whiners about the show being too comedic can eat a bag of dicks after this one. More back story development of the two medical crew and, to a lesser extent, the helms dyke. Disturbingly good story that shows not everyone has Pike’s Boy Scout belief in Federation justice and second chances.

What’s even more delicious is it gives us another week here on the DL to listen to the cry babies have temper tantrums about an upcoming musical episode. Keep holding your breath and turning blue bitches!

I loved this week’s episode. I was getting tired of the cutsy wootsy tongue in cheek episodes that we were getting too much of this season. Being a diehard DS9 Trekkie, I definitely appreciate the DS9 complexity and dark flavor of this episode.

I’m really not looking forward to the musical episode next week but it may surprise us. Also didn’t appreciate the mention of a recent Gorn battle Pike’s Enterprise had that we didn’t get to see. I hope the season finale really delivers.

Not feeling Spock and Nurse Chapel. End this!

Anson Mount is coming to Rhode Island Comic Con in November.

If I purchase a professional photo op, you think he'd pose shirtless with me?

Maybe slide him an extra $20 to lick his nipple....

I thought this week's would be the musical episode and so I kept expecting the Klingon ambassador to break into a song at the start. My bad!

I enjoyed this episode as well. You know what, we've seen this subject matter countless times now on Trek, just like the nebula aliens the other week. But it's just so well written and executed, I can't get tired of it.

La'an knew Chapel's testimony story was bullshit, she's a good security officer. Love how M'Benga pushed against Pike at the end, just hard enough. And I agree with r522 – it's easy to preach peace and second chances, but lived experience is something else.

That Klingon Judo stuff took all the editing and stunt work in the world – if you've seen Barry, you know that actor has trouble walking, let alone fighting a man who's built like a shit brickhouse.

Will M'Benga's euthanasia spark the same meltdown as Janeway's (rightful) euthanasia of that transporter monstrum? Something tells me no.

Clint Howard's delightful Trek cameos continue.

My only quibble: I wish the medbed at the end didn't glitch out, the silence and the seeming return to normal would have been more effective.

As always, I'd like to ride that Andorian officer's face until the Aenar cows come home. By far the hottest Trek aliens, do not challenge me on this one.

[quote] Keep holding your breath and turning blue bitches!

Take a deep breath and count to 5, MARY!

Doc Mumbles murders the top Klingon ambassador in the sick bay and everything just goes on as normal. We let Doc off because he knew he was a a "bad guy" WTF. This made zero sense. We saw two shadows thur the frosted glass. Who stabbed who? Non sensical sloppy shit writing once again. Another "instant classic". Sure Jan.

The ambiguity with the opaque glass is the whole point, Rose. Only the doctor – and possibly the nurse – knows what actually transpired.

^ Yeah I'm sure Star Fleet would let that slide . The illogic is mind boggling Shit for Brains R528

The ships doctor can murder anyone he wishes and it's just a big meh because he's a morally superior albeit drugged up super killer on the low down. Asinine plot befitting a ridiculous show. Bring on the dancing boys.

It was meh.

I think the Klingon ambassador was miscast. He seemed too mild.

I thought that was rather the point, i.e. to keep you guessing whether he was really reformed or not. Like Ortegas noted, he came across like Gandhi, in both words and just overall presence. Which is why the flashes of anger/aggression we saw from him landed that much harder.

I actually bought his conversion up until the very last moment when he was revealed to be a fraud.

How was he revealed to be a fraud?The writing is so bad it's like they delete a scene in every episode. Filling in their plot holes requires a bulldozer. Shows contempt for their audience.

Why did the Doctor say he was the "real Butcher" not the Klingon? Was the 10 second dimly lit strobe effect of the dagger being plunged into unidentifiable bodies supposed to explain that? Merde.

A 'plot hole' is quite different from a subjective 'I don't buy that.'

These objections don't come up to the level of a plot hole; they just speak to posters' contempt/lack of respect for the subject, and trying to get back to their original agenda - attacking the series for being 'woke.'

Yes, we've heard you (many times now), PD.

We've heard the guy(s) railing about the show being woke more times, actually. It's clear by now we're not going to make any headway on that point, so the constant back-and-forth doesn't really serve anything anymore.

To be honest - and I feel bad for saying that - but I think I missed the point of the entire show because I hardly understood M'Benga, especially in his final scene with the Klingon. I have to read up on who is being a fraud and why.

Yeah, I had to watch with the CC on.

We're not going to comment on how ripped M'Benga is?

I said he was built like a shit brickhouse at r525, I did my part!

The Andorian was played by this cutie with a certifiable BDF.

Wasn't Pike awfully passive in this episode? I mean, one way would have been to tell your senior staff to get its act together. 'You're the top tier representing Starfleet and the Federation when you're on this ship. And if you cannot put on a diplomatic face for two hours, maybe you shouldn't be on this ship'. Too harsh? I know he offered Doc and Nurse to stay away from dinner if it would be too much. But when things started to go south during dinner, he should have swiftly moved them out of his quarter. He owned this mission. It was his job to get the Klingon safely from A to B. I have a hard time believing that there would be just an inquiry. Like this is a mishap for which Starfleet just needs to complete some paper work. I wonder if there will be a follow-up to this episode.

Am I overanalyzing this?

A poster upthread mentioned Mount had requested decreased screen time due to his new crotchfruit, I'd chalk up some of that passivity to that.

[quote]Too harsh?

Yes, I think that's too harsh. Imagine an American president forcing Vietnam war vets to be paraded in front of the Vietnamese leadership like that after the war ended. People have PTSD, it happens. Plenty of other unaffected troops out there who can be forced to put on a smile. They should never have been put into that situation in the first place, it's the Starfleet Command that's to blame and honestly also Pike for going along with it.

[quote]R538: We've heard the guy(s) railing about the show being woke more times, actually. It's clear by now we're not going to make any headway on that point, so the constant back-and-forth doesn't really serve anything anymore.

The criticisms still keep coming back to it, one way or another. Like the drubbing M'Benga keeps taking. I've been waiting for one of the socks to let it slip that the reason the collective 'you' claim you cannot understand Babs Olusanmokun is because his lips are too thick.

[quote]R535: Why did the Doctor say he was the "real Butcher" not the Klingon? Was the 10 second dimly lit strobe effect of the dagger being plunged into unidentifiable bodies supposed to explain that? Merde.

Sure, the series is shit simply because 𝑦𝑜𝑢 couldn't understand it.

Stop watching episodes on a cell phone, and maybe you could see it better. Turn on the subtitles if you can't hear.

M'Benga said he was the Butcher of J'Gal because he was - t'was he who killed the Klingon commanders while General Dak'Rah made his escape. Dak'Rah is the fraud because ever since, he has been trading on the reputation for being the one who slew his own men. He didn't. He fled, like a coward.

It is unlikely that M'Benga will be called out on this; they are permitting Dak'Rah to keep his claim to being the 'Butcher of J'Gal', the one who kept the dagger with Klingon commanders' blood on it. Anyone who seeks to question that will be seen as trying diminish the honor of Ambassador Dak'Rah. As such, it would not be tolerated.

I have a feeling - and this should please the anti-woke trolls here - that Lt. Erica Ortegas will die at some point, based on Boimler's throwaway line in 'Those Old Scientists', "You're a war hero."

This week's episode was the best of the season so far. The lighter, goofier episodes are fun (like the "Lower Decks" crossover), but "Star Trek" is sometimes at its best when it goes dark. And this episode was pitch black. Good development of M'Benga, Chapel and Ortegas.

Next week is the musical, which will either be a total disaster or great.

^ I like when a show has the capability to do these broad stretches in genres. Those are the episodes when I am thinking I wish there were more than just ten per season. It's like 'I hardly knew that side of you.'

I can also see why they sandwiched this between two lighter episodes.

What we know of Pike's fate aside, this is probably the heaviest episode SNW has done to date.

The fact that they don't have a main cast member who is chief engineer and have made the position into Defense Against the Dark Arts professor suggests and interesting shift away from futuristic tech and episodes centered on tech solutions to problems.

[quote] What we know of Pike's fate aside

Maybe I am missing an aspect here, but is it conceivable that Number One's people at some point will pick up Pike from Talos IV, and then they fix him, so he is all OK again for a feature movie career?

The Chief Engineer should in theory be the most knowledgeable when it comes to practical applications of technology and the problem solving in that area, but that hasn't been consistently applied. Trek has always avoided portraying anyone serving on a ship – except for the evil admirals – as pencil pushers, and so we have everyone be an expert on everything. Everyone from the captain down to the ensign has provided solutions to technological problems du jour, depending on the writers' whims and just needing different actors to shine every week.

I've enjoyed Hemmer and I'm enjoying Pelia, but I hope they get a permanent – preferably alien – engineer for the remainder of the show's run if they are going to kill her off. And honestly, sacrificing yet another alien team member so the humans can live could get tasteless. Look what a success Saru has been, why can't we have someone like that in SNW as well? Anyway, that's a whole different conversation.

R546 Sure you think you've diagrammed a coherent plot? Think again .Poisoned Logic indeed.

"These objections don't come up to the level of a plot hole; they just speak to posters' contempt/lack of unqualified cultish adoration for this poorly written Star Dreck".

Fixed for obsequious Trekker R536

R554/R555: Hey, you're the one who professed not to be able to understand it, at R535. Clearly, this is more about your own deficiencies than those of the show. Stop projecting.

^ Dimwit if its got pointy ears it must be CLASSIC TV!

Rewatching ENT now and the juxtaposition between the super wholesome framing device with the kiddie Archer and his dad, and then the turbo horniness with T'Pol with her fake tits and fake lips and stone-hard nips and Trip's semi and his visible knob in the decon chamber, is WILD. They were clearly trying to make it edgier than the PG-13 Trek that came before, but they course corrected too much. We see someone getting raped and T'Pol is like "ignore it". Discovery and SNW have finally struck just the right balance where sexiness is concerned, imo.

Anyway, it's still the most rewatchable Trek for me, even more than my darling Voyager. I wish that were DS9, but it just has too many episodes and I don't have endless free time anymore.

[quote]Anyway, it's still the most rewatchable Trek for me, even more than my darling Voyager.

I guess everybody's gotta love something....

[quote]R557: ^ Dimwit if its got pointy ears it must be CLASSIC TV!

It being "classic TV" is not my criteria in assessing its quality. If it is yours, you have my condolences.

I have a couple of gripes about this most recent episode of SNW. One concerns a line of dialogue given by Spock, "I have 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑑 a complicated subject." (00:05:13) The word should be 'broached.' I've no idea if it was the fault of the writer, or if Ethan Peck misread it.

The other is Kyle Gatewood's Southern accent as Lt. Va'Al Trask, delivered as flawlessly as if the character was a native English speaker. It bothered me. Past depictions of Andorians have always had just a touch of an exotic accent. Maybe this one was born and raised in Georgia.

Criticisms, eh? Why do you hate Trek so much, PD?

At least mine are valid criticisms, sock R561 - of a single episode. I'm not here, using multiple accounts in an attempt to damage perception of the entire series, all because it's supposedly too woke.

Kyle Gatehouse is from Toronto. I'm somewhat of an accent savant, so I just rewatched his scenes and that most definitely is not a Southern accent. I think they use vocal processing on Andorians from Discovery onwards to give them a deeper voice, which might have thrown you off.

I agree about the "breached" part though, shit like that bothers me to no end. But that's not on the actors, it's the script supervisor's fault for not doing his/her job and pointing out the mistake on the set or during the table read before that.

[quote]R563: Kyle Gatehouse is from Toronto. I'm somewhat of an accent savant, so I just rewatched his scenes and that most definitely is not a Southern accent.

I'd have to take your word for the accent. It sounded Southern to me.

[quote]I think they use vocal processing on Andorians from Discovery onwards to give them a deeper voice, which might have thrown you off.

I wouldn't know; I never much noticed any Andorians 'from Discovery onwards.' My model for 'Andorian' is still Reggie Nalder's Ambassador Shras from 'Journey to Babel,' and to some lesser extent, Jeffrey Comb's Shran on 'Enterprise.'

[quote]I agree about the "breached" part though, shit like that bothers me to no end. But that's not on the actors, it's the script supervisor's fault for not doing his/her job and pointing out the mistake on the set or during the table read before that.

...leading one to suspect that no one among the writers or on set knows the difference.

(sigh)

R562 You've exposed are nefarious plan! When we want to damage a multi million dollar franchise we come to Data Lounge and post snarky comments under multiple aliases. All paid for by Republican bots and Megstans. Logical.

“Are” plan? JFC, you are illiterate.

Could the hall monitors on this thread fuck off. Thanks.

Or take a Xanax or two. Does a thread about a TV show really need to be this belligerent? Have a different opinion than others? Fine. Live and let live. We are not drafting a new constitution. If you disagree, just say "I disagree" and we all move on.

Better illiterate then you R566

"Then you"

Oh, dear. Talk about illiteracy.

The troll running the 'What is homosexuality' thread misuses 'then' the same way.

[quote]Does a thread about a TV show really need to be this belligerent?

You should see The Gilded Age threads where posters maul each other over the smallest things. I don't know what it is about period shows in particular that brings out the worst in DLers.

Anyway, I suggest we continue the show conversation in the duplicate thread once this one gets full. I'll have lots of notes for the musical episode, I can just feel it.

[quote]R569: Better illiterate then you [R566]

The jokes write themselves. By all means, R569, keep digging that hole.

So anyway... looking forward to the musical episode this week.

I'm afraid that's not possible, R568 . There are some posters here- including and especially the OP- who are such experts on Star Trek, they have the privilege to beleaguer others whom they deem unworthy to participate in these threads, particularly if that poster's opinions do not match their opinions (i.e: not liking Lower Decks, not liking the trans captain, etc). Those posters must simply be chased away from their "Little Rascals" style clubhouse with passive aggressive remarks which they feel are witty but actually just come across as stupid and psychopathic. These posts come directly after the offensive posters musings till that person just says "Fuck it" and leaves, so Op, VOTN, and others can all hold hands and continue talking to each other with their heads up their asses. It makes one wonder if they truly are Star Trek fans, since they think they have the ability to exclude others with a different point of view.

You have "notes on the musical episode" OP? Oh this ought to be good. How are you an expert, exactly? In other words, who do you think you are, bitch?

Well, let's talk about pleasant people then.

How about that Jonathan Frakes guy? Is there ever a time when that man is not pleasant? Whenever I see him in interviews or in behind-the-scene footage he is nothing but fun, insightful and still humble. All the actors are raving about him being such a great, fun and supportive director. His interviews are always insightful and smart and never condescending in any way. He is the type of guy I want to have on all my parties because I know he always lifts up everybody's spirit.

The conclusion of this episode reminded me of the TNG episode "The Most Toys," where it was suggested that Data used a horribly painful weapon to kill a monstrously evil collector who had killed his friend with the same weapon; again, you never found out for sure whether he did or did not do it. It all depended as to what you believed Data was capable of doing.

This time it was more confusing, because Dr. M'Benga is not yet as fully fleshed-out a character as data was by that time, so it was hard to care (as much as I genuinely like the actor who plays M'Benga).

[quote]R577: you never found out for sure whether he did or did not do it

Transporter data said that the weapon was in the process of discharging when Data was brought over. So apparently he did.

[quote]This time it was more confusing, because Dr. M'Benga is not yet as fully fleshed-out a character as data was by that time, so it was hard to care (as much as I genuinely like the actor who plays M'Benga).

M'Benga is a classic Trek character, from the original series ('A Private Little War,' 'That Which Survives'). And there's no reason to be confused by this episode; M'Benga definitely stabbed him. Ever since J'Gal, M'Benga had kept the 𝑑'𝑘 𝑡𝑎ℎ𝑔 dagger with the DNA of the Klingon commanders he'd killed. General Dak'Rah had been his original target, and now, five years later, as Ambassador, Dak'Rah refused to get out of his face, fucked around and found out. But M'Benga will likely be found to have acted in self-defense, since Dak'Rah had spent the past five years trading on the claim to have been 'the Butcher of J'Gal.' Starfleet and especially the Klingons accept Dak'Rah's claim at face value, and leave it at that. Chapel know the truth, but she'll defend M'Benga to the death.

Ugh! I failed to proof the post:

Starfleet and especially the Klingons accept Dak'Rah's claim at face value, and will probably leave it at that. Chapel knows the truth, but she'll defend M'Benga to the death.

[quote] And there's no reason to be confused by this episode; M'Benga definitely stabbed him.

That wasn't the point they deliberately kept ambiguous. it was which physically attacked the other first.

R580, M'Benga had the dagger, therefore it was he who 'attacked' first. Dak'Rah wouldn't stay out of his personal space.

Ironic how dedicated cult members always seem to throw around the word psychopathic.

R575 The one with no self awareness.

R575 It's just a TV show Dear.

^ and a badly written one at that Dear

Show us that you can do better, R584.

^ Write me a check

Not really looking forward to this musical episode but we’ll see.

Will helmsdyke sing? Or just scowl...

R582 R583 R584 R586 Are probably sock puppets of the same cunt who's been attacking me since R409. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if they were all Voice of the Night himself, since he acts like only he and he alone can have Trek threads here on DL. He's still angry because of the way I spoke to him in another Trek thread.

No, I do have self-awareness. You don't really have a point, so all you hurl are insults you think are witty just trying to get under someone's skin. "Psychopathic" "pathetic" whichever word you like, they both describe you. I'm not the one who made snarky remarks about people in the historical drama threads. As far as being in a cult, look who's talking and how you've been controlling this thread, attacking me and PoisonedDragon. Take your own advice: "It's only a TV show". (I'm not adding "dear" because you are definitely not anything of affection to me.) You're only taking advantage of DL's malfunctioning ignore feature.

But that's okay; I know how bitchy you trannys get when you're having your pretend periods. How's that ketchup?

[quote] [R580], M'Benga had the dagger, therefore it was he who 'attacked' first.

No: they kept it ambiguous, which is clearly why we observed the middle and end parts of the fight from Chapel's pt. of view through translucent glass. They even SAID in the dialogue it was unknown to the investigation who attacked first, and M'benga said at first to Pike he didn't attack first, and then later said, "And even if I had said I attacked first..." It was never settled clearly.

[quote]R586: Write me a check

If you had anything to offer besides antiwoke bullshit, someone would already be writing you a check.

[quote]R590: They even SAID in the dialogue it was unknown to the investigation who attacked first, and M'benga said at first to Pike he didn't attack first, and then later said, "And even if I had said I attacked first..."

Yes - in the dialogue concerning what was being said to Captain Pike, which is not quite what we observed. Pike assumes that Dak'Rah brought the dagger into it, since he was supposedly 'the Butcher of J'Gal.' He doesn't know that it's been in M'Benga's possession all these years. Pike is not meant to know what we, the audience, know.

M'Benga was feeling the question out, what Pike's response might be.

"What if I started the fight then? Would that be so bad?"

"Even if he had secrets, there's due process. That's why we have tribunals."

M'Benga saw that he would not be able to completely confide in Captain Pike.

[quote] Voice of the Night himself, since he acts like only he and he alone can have Trek threads here on DL. He's still angry because of the way I spoke to him in another Trek thread.

I experienced VOTN as one of the most reasonable and rational posters here on DL. I wish he posted more of his insight and opinions here. He keeps threads civil and I have fun reading his posts.

I'm fine with VotN; but there are other Trek fans here who are so inexplicably hostile and nasty I have to block them.

R594 You should meet Star Wars fans.

R589. Your meds are in the fridge Hon.

[quote] [R594] You should meet Star Wars fans.—those bitches are crazy

So crazy they address posts to themselves?

r594

Link to part 2 of this thread.

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