Visting/Living in San Francisco

It was wonderful. I still would love to move back.

It's a great town with its share of problems. Very unlike its national image wrt standard of living (you're not going to see a crazed bum on every corner) except that it is ungodly, ludicrously expensive.

I enjoyed the whole of tbe 1980s that I lived there.

First, the bad stuff: SF is besieged by meth and fentanyl zombies, many of whom are homeless, and some of whom are violent. As a visitor, there is a 100% chance that you will confronted by them, particularly in Union Square, the Castro and the Mission. Street crime is also present, and if you leave anything in a rental car, it WILL be stolen.

But if you still want to visit, December is a nice time - unless it rains a lot, which COULD happen, but usually the serious rains hold off til after the first of the year. If you get away from the usual tourist spots, you’ll find lots of beautiful areas to explore.

I’m sure many enjoyed R3 ‘s hole too

It's lost some of its rough-edged bohemian/sophistication. It's a very, very Asian town now (that makes it a world-class city, portal to Asia). The tech bro tide is receding a bit... prices have "stabilized", but it's still a very expensive city.

But given all that, if you get a day with good weather, it's still one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

In San Francisco all seems to breathe freedom and peace, and to make one forget the world and its sad turmoils.

I have heard it is the third most European style city, behind Boston and New Orleans.

[quote] I have heard it is the third most European style city, behind Boston and New Orleans.

Pretty accurate, r8. It’s certainly nothing like the huge sprawl of LA (or Chicago or Dallas or most other US cities). It’s compact and walkable, and has a variety of interesting architecture - and plenty of squalor too. But it’s not European at all in its street layout, which in most of the city follows a strict grid.

How is SF "European"?

Depending on when in December your trip is, you might be able to catch a concert by one of the 3 gay choruses in town (or 4 if you include Chanticleer). SFGMC always puts on a good show, and their Christmas Eve concerts at the Castro Theatre are wonderful.

I lived there through the nineties and early 2000’s, and got priced out. My pay did not keep up with costs.

I lived there for years and never saw Alcatraz, a lot of museums, the opera…all the things you would want to see in a wonderfully cultured city. Because I had to work six days a week to keep a roof over my head and pay for BART, I couldn’t buy new clothes for years until I got several promotions, and struggled financially, constantly having to make extremely difficult decisions on what bill I had to pay first. My life was work and sleep, period. I would see people working in places like bagel shops, and think, how are these people living? Even my unmarried coworkers lived with their parents into their forties. Nobody there had a life except for a few young people who probably had a lot of roommates. In fact, I knew people who broke up and continued to live with their ex, because neither could afford to move and they knew at least their ex wasn’t going to steal their things or smoke crack. I knew a lot of people who were celibate due to no privacy or time or money.

Having said all that, in the early nineties, it was a lot more affordable, and I got to live in a fairly nice area and at least bike around and go to free concerts in the park. The money thing just strangled any standard of living at all. But it’s a beautiful city and I always wished I was able to do anything to enjoy it. Much richer culturally than anyplace else I’ve lived. It wasn’t until I left that I realized, enjoying the city was aspirational, not something I ever really was able to do.

I returned after not living there for many years and have enjoyed my time there. Sadly, family problems has kept me away for the place lots over the past year. One thing that I notice upon returning was that after the initial spending that getting an apartment takes the city isn't that expensive for a renter. I have no car expenses here and my monthly electricity costs are nothing compared to when I lived in Arizona. I enjoy the city so much and it has plenty to offer.

R6- Vancouver is VERY Asian now too. Miami is VERY Latino now.

True, r14. The rent on our large 1BR with a great view and garage parking is 2400 - which is a lot compared to most places, but on the other hand our rent hasn’t been raised since we moved in four years ago. It’s rent-controlled, but our landlord hasn’t even bothered to raise it by 2% per year or whatever the legally allowed amount is.

I am paying 1500 a month for a good sized studio and it is rent controlled as well. 1500 is actually becoming competitive to the rest of the USA when you factor in not needing a car to live here. If your income is below 93K a year and you are a senior you get to use the public transportation for free. Store prices seem to be about 10 percent higher than in Arizona but I use Amazon to buy most things so it is the same really. Grocery prices are about the same.

R17 Yeah. In downtown Houston rent starts at 1500

R16 that’s cheaper than NYC

R13, sad that you got priced out. Did you have roommates when you lived in SF? What area(s) of SF did you live in? Alcatraz was somewhat interesting, but not a huge loss if you didn't get there.

Take a trolley car. Visit the Legion of Honor. Definitely chat up some locals. Still a few hippies bouncing around in the Haight.

For my money, I’d take a little place in the Oakland hills over SF.

And if you rent a rent controlled apartment you can be guaranteed of no big rental increases. I friend of mine in Phoenix had his rent go from 900 to 1400 monthly overnight. That would happen in SF.

Unfortunately, rent control also makes it hard to find an apartment, because people are incentivized to live in their units forever. There are anecdotal tales of people owning multiple homes out of town but “squatting” on rent-controlled units that they use as pied-à-terres.

But if you do get one, you’re set for life - if that’s what you want.

You have to live in the rent controlled apartment more than half the year. It has to be considered your primary residence.

Cleve Jones just lost his rent control apartment in the city because he didn't stay there enough. Spent more time at his home in Guerneville on the Russian River.

Seems reasonable to require you to live there for 6+ months.

IMO, the Legion of Honor and the Haight are both not a big deal. The Haight would be OK if there was somewhere you specifically wanted to try, eg, a restaurant. But to just walk around, no.

Try the rice-a-roni!

The Lower Haight (east of Divis) is nicer than the Upper. Lots of fun little bars and restaurants, and there’s a lovely park nearby. Just watch out for rabid cyclists riding the Wiggle.

The charm is gone. The whole San Francisco "experience" died sometime in the late 80s and I'm being generous. It has now become one of those places that you might want to visit but never live there. And to be blunt even visiting is a fucking yawn.

Driving in SF is like driving on a roller coaster. I still have nightmares about it.

I like the views from the Legion of Honor which is why I recommended it.

It's one of the most beautiful cities in the world from a distance.

I went to The Legion of Honor to see the Guo Pei exhibit this morning. It’s lovely there. They extended the exhibit through Nov and if you have any interest in fashion, I highly recommend it. I lived here for 10 years, left for LA for 5 and came back earlier this year. Appreciate it more now and love living here.

The Palace of Legion of Honor is one of the most beautiful spots on earth. Fantastic exhibits and events, always.

Grace Cathedral in the Nob / Russian Hill area.

Maybe the gardens in Golden Gate Park. I remember there used to be a scent garden. Not sure if they still have it. There's the De Young Museum (GG Park), which is OK. Lots of Asian stuff.

The Japanese Tea Garden.

I lived there for a few years, a long time ago. The biggest mistake I ever made was talking to people on the street. Don’t do it!

I’m serious. If somebody initiates a conversation you KNOW they’re running a scam. No one will talk to you if they don’t want something. You may not even get directions to a BART station.

I kept expecting to love the place. Never happened. Even the staff at the most expensive hotels are rude. I used to ride the cable car to/from work and fantasize about the hotel at the top of the hill (can’t even remember the name). Finally stayed there, years later. Save your money.

The best experiences I had, strangely enough, were pure tourist. I went to Alcatraz and it was worth it. Ghirardelli makes good chocolate. I went to the Folsom street fair and it was okay. Over-crowded.

I like New Orleans and Chicago WAY more than SF.

Bash on it for the homeless and drug addicts - but in certain areas, it is world class living with stunning natural views, abundant culture and great politics. Obscenely expensive. But the “poop in the street” cliche is overdone. It is still a beautiful city that most would be fortunate to live in. And oh, it happens to be one of the gayest in the world too. With all its issues, it still is a great place to live and visit.

R31 Staying on the major "grid" streets, SF is relatively easy to drive in. Some hilly neighborhoods are more challenging. But it is infinitely easier than driving in Boston... the town that outlawed straight lines.

Alcatraz is the most curious "tourist attraction"... I mean it's an island in the bay, has pretty views.. but it's an old prison and feels like it. Don't waste your time to get a "trophy day" in SF.

There are street addicts, homeless, and all the trash and dirt related to that. But actually I think there are many cities with larger homeless problems.

I recommend the shrimp louie with a big slice of buttered sourdough and a bloody mary at Tadich Grill.

Glad I visited there in the '90s.

A nice urban hike with some definite climbing is walking to the top of Twin Peaks from the Castro.

R39, I always hear people say Chicago is a great city. But the weather is so awful, it seems like it wouldn’t be worth it. What do you like about Chicago?

R44, I live near Hopkins & Corbett - in fact I walked up Hopkins just yesterday. Why join a gym when I have a huge Stairmaster at my door?

Great place to be homeless stunning view great bushes to sleep in fat dumpsters excellent climate for outdoor living.It is best to be stinkin rich or broke the middle classes are fucked. No time no money. Def worth a visit the setting is fabulous. A lot of serious people doing important things and class consciousness. Kinda cold vibe the place needs help in that respect. The best of everything if you got the dough though.

It's literally cold, the fog rolls in , it's a chilly city. Bring your jacket.

I wouldn’t go there if I were you

I'm selling my place in SF if you're looking for a place to buy!

New Orleans is not European. It is Caribbean.

Boston is not European. It is Liverpool-English.

San Francisco is not European. It is pure ruined California.

Rent control only applies to buildings erected before a certain year. My landlord owns a 6 unit building. He is happy to have good tenants and hasn't raised my rent since '16 or '17 (I took over someone's broken lease). My one bedroom is $1275.

Before this I lived in a rent controlled flat for 18 years, and would still be there if not Ellis Act evicted in '06 so flippers could turn the building into a TIC. Anyway, when a rent controlled apartment is vacated, a landlord can raise it to current market rate, then rent control resumes from there.

People like R24 make have no point when they type: "Unfortunately, rent control also makes it hard to find an apartment, because people are incentivized to live in their units forever."

Such bullshit. Who wouldn't want to hang onto lower priced housing if it still suits their needs? If people couple up they may find a studio is too small, so they get something bigger, likewise if kids or a dog enter the picture. If a one bedroom isn't big enough, people move to bigger apartments and houses, leaving vacancies behind. That's how rental housing works. If people stay put for a long time because they're happy with the unit and legalities like rent control are in their favor, that doesn't make them assholes.

Know it all R24 dramatically continues: "There are anecdotal tales of people owning multiple homes out of town but “squatting” on rent-controlled units that they use as pied-à-terres."

Yes, anecdotal tales, not thousands of actual people with $500 apartments from the 70s living in Puerta Vallarta 9 months a year. If they're paying the rent, they're not squatters, even while they may be breaking lease terms in other ways.

Rents are too damn high all over the US---even in shit holes you'd never expect to cost so much. The rise of AirBnB rentals have also impacted SF and other cities. In SF "affordable housing" builds are almost nonexistent, as rental prices keep going up. I've often said it will take another major earthquake or another major plague to bring down housing prices again. Landlords have the upper hand in many areas, in SF there's a lot of tenants rights in place through both city and state measures. This is true in other cities as well. Deadbeat junkie grifters have been actually squatting in my building since they stopped paying rent three months after moving in, May of 2020, so in this case a landlord is getting screwed because of the laws. Just depends on the situation.

R52, there is someone IN MY BUILDING who is illegally subletting his rent-controlled apartment. He skipped town just after COVID began and hasn’t been around since, but he left 6 motorcycles in the garage. People who leave town permanently generally don’t leave vehicles behind.

I am sitting in my living room looking at the view, cloudless blue skies, windows open to catch the 65˚ breeze. Love San Francisco, despite its well-known issues (which it shares with pretty much every other city.) Have never seriously considered leaving permanently.

Listen to the posts who speak about the City WITHOUT comparing it to others. They speak the truth.

Pros for visiting:

1) You can see all of the charm of it in a short period: Golden Gate Bridge/Chrissy Field/Fort Mason, Fisherman's Wharf/Alcatraz/Embarcadero, Union Square/Nob Hill, North Beach/Chinatown, Golden Gate Park/Haight/Alamo Park , Castro/Mission (those neighborhoods adjoin each other) - you can spend a week doing all of it or less and whittle down based on your interests

2) No need for a car - you can Uber/walk/public transit the clusters (recommended in that order)

3) Diversity - lots of people and influences from all over the world

Cons for visiting:

1) It is expensive. Most stay less than a week due to any decent hotel starting at $200/night and any decent meal being $20/minimum; parking at any hotel if you insist on a car is $50/day (then you'd have to navigate very limited and quiestionably safe street parking).

2) Anticipated day trips (Napa/Sonoma) or (Monterey/Carmel Big Sur) will require a car and are not cheap or close - 2 hours or so away; Lake Tahoe is not a day trip (4 hours)

3) Hype of it's charm will rarely live up to its expectations due to urban realities (drugged out zombies & tents in every neighborhood a tourist would be interested in - especially the Castro; people are cold and not interested in interaction with people they don't know - including all the service industries - above poster is right that even the expensive places have rude/bitter/resentful staff; the City has not rebounded from Covid - those restaurants that survived Covid primarily close at 9pm; minimal nightlife isn't as abuzz as many cities; after dark there is a lingering sense of danger due to absence of foot traffic save for drugged out zombies

Pros for living:

1) Live and let live attitude - people from all walks of life can exist here with minimal tension (why people from all over the world live here)

2) International hub - you can get anywhere in the country/world easily from its airports (why people from all over the world come here)

3) STEM hub - if you are in these fields, you can find a job (it's not just all tech - there are a lot of life sciences jobs here, but they aren't as flashy/noisy as tech); you can make a lot of money here

Cons of living -

1) Everything is expensive - housing, food, transport, entertainment

2) Crime - property/theft crimes are rampant and law enforcement dismisses most as "quality of life" issues; citizens have been conditioned to dismiss it as "part of living in a city"

3) Segregated - despite the diversity, groups splinter off into Like Meism (race, national origin, class, etc). including the gays, and there is a lot of resentment from natives/locals

In summary, the good is that you can see everything that's made it famous very quickly and easily. The bad is all of these attractions wear off quickly in the grind of life. You'll find those most invested in it are those that have been here a long time and haven't had the ability to compare it to other cities in the country or the world.

R54, I love it here too - especially the weather, which is apparently becoming a bit of a tourist draw in this era of endless, ridiculously hot summers everywhere else. Per the NYT, which rarely misses an opportunity to bash SF: ….

Then there were Anders Westlund and Lilian Howell, college students visiting from Southern California, reveling in the notion that they could comfortably wear pants, long-sleeve shirts and chunky boots.

“A lot of people escape to the heat,” said Mr. Westlund, who studies management. “We’re escaping to the cool.”

….

That may be part of our significant future messaging about what San Francisco is all about,” said Joe D’Alessandro, chief executive of the San Francisco tourism bureau. “We never shy away from pictures of the fog coming into San Francisco or people with jackets on — that is who we are.”

Mr. D’Alessandro says he is considering marketing the summer shivers with tourist slogans along the lines of, “Come cool down.”

Does anybody else live in a fine for them, but ultimately not preferred city - due to family or income to costs or whatever reason - and want to retire to a big city before (or completely instead of) a more typical, mundane retirement? I'd like that dense walkable life for a period before downshifting.

R55 Agree with everything you say about SF, with the exception of the cost of hotel stays. You'd be lucky to find even a room at a fleabag hotel for $200. Expect to pay a minimum of $400 per night if you want a decent hotel room in a safer neighborhood with easy access to the city's attractions.

I’ve lived in 6 other large cities in the US, and 2 in Europe, and (so far) I like SF better than any of them. I’ve only been here 13 years, though.

R51 seems like a happy bloke.

I lived in Twin Peaks and it was lovely. Had to move away because it was no longer affordable.

It is interesting that SF doesn’t seem to have rebounded as thoroughly from the pandemic as other cities. The closures of many places - like Badlands, Cafe Flore - the early/weird hours, the feeling that it just hasn’t “come back”.

[quote]I have heard it is the third most European style city, behind Boston and New Orleans.

Clearly the observation of people who have never seen a European city.

I think when a lot of Americans call a city "European" it's normally just in reference to the city being dense and walkable - not even in comparison to European cities themselves, but in comparison to other US cities. I guess architecture could play a minor role too, but mainly just dense and walkable. I don't know.

European cities are cold and lonely feeling, our cities tend to have some warmth and charm.

[quote]Does anybody else live in a fine for them, but ultimately not preferred city - due to family or income to costs or whatever reason - and want to retire to a big city before (or completely instead of) a more typical, mundane retirement? I'd like that dense walkable life for a period before downshifting.

An interesting question for its own thread, maybe?

In the U.S., there are not many places where a big or even medium-sized city offers a dense, walkable life where you can do the things that need doing all on foot: NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco...? (A first stab at a list, and leaving out for the moment smaller cities like Providence, Charleston.)

There just are few places that offer the density of housing, shops, workplaces, recreation, entertainment, food and restaurants, services in the center. Instead the buyers of $900,000 lofts get token solutions: an expensive bike path project on one end of the city; a downtown loft housing district and next to it one expensive grocery store that will close within two years; hotels pretending to solve housing problems; a factory expensively retrofitted and touted as a co-working facility (that will take the better part of a decade to fill with tenants.) Shops that sell international youth brands and leave the residential neighbors to have to go the suburbs to have shoes resoled or to buy dog food in quantities greater than a 3-lb. bag, or a butcher, or a fruit and vegetable shop that's open on a weekend.

Even quite small cities in Europe can be interesting places to live and work and enjoy yourself without needing to set foot in a car or bus or train, without having to jump across the city to a neighborhood that has a pet store where you can pay for a big fucking bag of dog food and have it delivered for free, or have an embarrassment of good food choices, a mix of housing types and prices, and a city where the streets are not deserted at night.

Workers in European cities don't wear plastic gloves, touch their face, make your food, disgusting .

A big appeal of Chicago is if you want a nice city life style where there is stuff to do, walkable areas and robust public transportation....Chicago is affordable compared to NY, San Francisco, DC and Boston r45.

I've lived there, it's a great city. Liveable - better when you have money. I understand that for lower middle class and below it's out of their price range, adults taking roommates and that sort of thing.

The city itself and surrounding areas are just wonderful. Great restaurants, wine country nearby, decent shopping but not overly "shoppy," beautiful beautiful beautiful. It's beautiful and walkable and fun.

I lived there briefly when I was 19 in the late 90s. I loved it. Just loved it. My best friend stayed in the city and I moved to LA. Visited him often. I never got sick of visiting. Still don't.

You'll have a blast. It's a great tourist city. Tons to do and it's small. So easy to jump from site to site.

Yes, it has issues. But there's something so unique about the town. A bit like New Orleans in that way.

Sf resident here and no one who lives here says "this is just like Europe!"

They tried to make "Just.Like.NYC" happen but it didn't.

It's a smallish city that's liveable and where people can also work. There's decent public transport and something for everyone. It's not a ghost town after 8. You don't have to "gird your loins" every time you go out, like NYC. NYC was fun when I was young and strong but it got too exhausting. SF is not NYC and it's not European but it's closer to a European-type city than many other cities in America.

America is blessed with a lot of good cities to live - from Providence, RI and Portland, ME to Eugene, OR and Santa Cruz, CA. The abundance of options is something we don’t appreciate enough. In Europe there are a few per country at most - but US has plenty of good options. SF is a great option - if you have money. But there are lots of Tier 2 cities that are livable and more affordable.

SF is 1.5 times as large as Manhattan but has 70% of its population, so it feels like a small town by comparison.

I spent a year there one week. Overrated.

I spent several days there earlier this year. We stayed at an airbnb house, a Victorian, and it was lovely. Loads of things to do, museums, restaurants, comedy clubs. My friend lives in a rural area so we had to hit all the different restaurants.

Just don't leave anything at all visible in your car, even if it's cheap and you wouldn't miss it. Someone will break a window to get it.

We will be going back in the spring.

What;s Santa Cruz like?

R68, I need to relocate and I’m looking at Chicago, but the weather sounds very daunting. Got priced out of San Francisco. Weather-wise, there’s not much like it.

Thanks for responding.

I remember visiting several times in the early 80's. I think my first time was in 1981, stayed at the funky Atherton Hotel, spent my 21st birthday there with friends, danced to the wee hours at a disco that was just a stones from the Castro, can't remember the name of the place.

R51, Boston is in no way like Liverpool or any other English place.

It's not particularly European either.

[quote] My one bedroom is $1275.

R52, this sounds really low. Can you say what District you live in?

[quote] Still a few hippies bouncing around in the Haight.

The only people bouncing around the Haight are runaway homeless potheads from Bakersfield.

It's lovely! But watch where you step.

San Francisco is wasted on San Franciscans. It is an undeniably cool city nestled like a gemstone in a gorgeous setting of mountains and sea. But the people are just so BORING.

I find Chinatown to be the most evocative and authentic part of town. It's a little otherworldly. It's remarkably large, homogenous, and well preserved for such in-demand real estate. I understand that the primary language is Cantonese as well - whereas the overwhelming majority of Chinese people speak Mandarin.

Something I think every time I'm there is that it feels like a small town, not a big city. Part of this is that it takes SO LONG to get anywhere. The public transit is horrible. There's no parking anywhere. And all of those hills make for slow walking. I honestly don't understand how people get around...

SF native here, approaching retirement, couldn't get back to sleep, ended up seeing this thread.

Delighted that most of the posts here about my hometown are accurate.

Was fortunate enough to have had the foresight/dumb luck to have chosen a career in STEM, bought a house when I was in my early 30's, and avoided anal sex in the 1980's-1990's. Not necessarily in that order. Back in the day, San Francisco was a city full of possibilities for anyone. You could escape from a toxic family (whether you were from The Outer Sunset or a small town in Kansas), rent a room or a cheap basement in-law, and put yourself through college. That's mostly not true anymore, but I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from trying if they fell in love with The City. You'll find a way to be here.

One enduring (not endearing) thing about SF is constant change in demographics and economics. I miss you guys and gals who were priced out long ago. Hope you are doing well and making wherever you may have landed fabulous.

Culturally, this town would not have been what it once was without you having been here. One thing that remains somewhat constant is geography and climate. I've been able to travel, but always come home to what I think is stunning natural beauty and a comfortable climate. Yeah, foggy and windy and gray all Summer. So I have a hot tub. Sometimes it's innards become infested with rats, squirrels, and black widow spiders. You just deal. Your favorite Lesbian couple neighbors sold their house to dull, Tekkie Douche Bros for $2 million and moved to Oakland or Oregon in their Subaru wagon with too many bumper stickers. The TDB's spent another million renovating that former friends' house while they were busy riding the Google Buses down to Silicon Valley, painted it gray or black, then moved to Mill Valley or Walnut Creek when they started breeding. Sense of community is gone.

It feels like San Francisco's vitality recovery from COVID is lagging. But I think we have a more realistic view of this pandemic -- that it's not over, and people are still dying. So, be careful. Oh, and BTW, can we please stop fucking each other silly just for five minutes while everyone gets the Monkeypox vaccine? Looking forward to becoming a Retired Virologist.

In my old, frail age, the hills, stairs to my house, and psycho street people are no longer my friends. Will need to cash out of my house and retire to somewhere cheaper. Not sure where. Not Palm Springs. Not Red States. SF is now too difficult for me. I'll probably die of boredom wherever I end up, but am happy to be alive.

Getting back to OP: Please come visit SF. Find an affordable AirBnB room and spend at least a week here, somewhere in a remote, residential neighborhood. Learn how to ride MUNI/BART, and take Uber or Lyft. Stay away from all of the shitty neighborhoods and tourist traps. Do your research. Cable Car stops are not worth dealing with the homeless and crazies who dwell there. Do not talk to strangers on the street or make eye contact. Go to gay bars. People might not be friendly, but you never know... DO go to Alcatraz! It wasn't until my 50th BDay that I went. The Bay cruise and the views from there are worth a half-day. Take a MUNI bus to Coit Tower. Walk all along The Embarcadero -- the bay waterfront. Do NOT get near the ocean water on our beaches or hike our cliffs -- they will kill you. Go to Tahiti for that. Enjoy from a distance. Have a super burrito somewhere on Mission Street, eat Dim Sum in Chinatown, or better yet, take the bus out to Clement Street and have lunch at some random place that has roasted ducks hanging in the window. If you fall in love with SF, you'll find a way to stay and make it work. Just don't plan to grow old here.

U.K. guy here. I went to Boston only once about 20 years ago and loved it. I did find it kind of European, especially compared to New York which I also love. I don’t drive so I am restricted to places were a car isn’t needed.

In the 80’s San Francisco was well known for its huge gay scene and neighbourhood, is it still like that today?

[quote] Do NOT get near the ocean water on our beaches or hike our cliffs -- they will kill you.

I don't see anything wrong with going to Ocean Beach (I would not get in the water - way too cold). I've grown up around the ocean and it's not the most beautiful beach. But back when I lived in SF, we had a visitor from Missouri who had never seen the ocean and he just sat, staring at it (Ocean Beach).

Also, there's a nice hike in that same area - Ocean Beach (near Cliff House, IIRC). I wouldn't consider that dangerous.

I do think a ferry ride would be fun - to Sausalito or wherever. I've heard (but never tried) the ride to Larkspur is very nice.

Whenever the weather’s nice, I go to the gay nude beach near the Golden Gate Bridge. The waves haven’t killed me yet…

That's Baker Beach, I think. I've never been there, but a friend used to go there and lie out nude.

The gay section is Marshall Beach.

Timing is everything OP

(^.^)

Hellish

OP be careful

Also, visit scenic Oakland!

December usually brings welcome rains in CA, and there’s nothing more beautiful than a spring in winter. All is green and juicy! Walk from North Beach to Chinatown. Enjoy the many restaurants both cheap and expensive. Bring money. May I suggest The legion of Honor for art work and a short BART ride to Oakland to the Oakland Museum. Avoid Fisherman’s Wharf. Unless your a dog scarfing discarded sourdough clam chowder bowls on the piers, move along, nothing to see here folks…

Forecast highs in San Francisco during the heat wave are in the low 80s.

Don’t you have some NY Post links about crime in New York to post?

Also, OP is planning on visiting in December, when the heat wave and fires will be over.

[quote] I find Chinatown to be the most evocative and authentic part of town. It's a little otherworldly. It's remarkably large, homogenous, and well preserved for such in-demand real estate. I understand that the primary language is Cantonese as well - whereas the overwhelming majority of Chinese people speak Mandarin.

Interesting take on Chinatown, R84. Yes, that is a nice piece of real estate. LA Chinatown is larger and more spread out than SF Chinatown. Honolulu Chinatown is larger, as well. DC Chinatown is tiny.

Frankly, I never found great food in SF Chinatown and I do like Chinese Food. I would prefer the food on Clement Street.

Lots of gore-tex!

But I'd live there in a second.

The public library as I recall is a very nice building indeed.

New Yorker here who visited SF for a week and loved it! Fantastic city.

Alcatraz was awesome. There’s something mysterious and even romantic about place like that. Very Gloria Swanson in the photo that inspired Follies type of feel.

You can EASILY find lodging for less than $200/night. There is a great network for hostels in SF (I stayed at the Green Tortoise for $48/night) and loved it.

I won’t argue that SF is inexpensive to visit, but maybe compared to New York it felt similar. You always here this hype that the city is beyond any expense you could ever imagine and are the museums and restaurants really more expensive than the museums and restaurants in NYC?

Sure, I saw some homeless people, but I never once felt unsafe.

I’d visit again in a heartbeat.

San Francisco is not European, it's Victorian American. The architecture is interesting but quite musty and missing the eclecticism and glamour of its bigger sister, Los Angeles. Food is outrageously expensive and while tere isn't a homeless person on every corner, some sections are run down by entitled homeless people and drug addicts.

Yes, R97 I do but this thread is about SF.

OP Rents haven't skyrocketed like so many other markets

So, r104, why did you post a bunch of info about a heat wave that isn’t affecting SF at all?

R106 you were asking

Yes, and notice how San Francisco is (appropriately enough) blue. Current temp at my home in SF is 58°F.

OP was asking about San Francisco, not Santa Rosa or Walnut Creek or Napa.

Not too bright, are you?

R106

Watch your step OP

Better trolls please.

(^.^) The maiden aunt brigade has arrived

Exhausting

Too many things to think about / avoid.

Just do NYC for the same price and way more to see/do.

You may want to wear knee-high rubber boots.......there is so much human excrement in the Union Square area downtown that you can't walk in a straight line down the sidewalk, and invariably it gets ALL OVER your shoes..........wear something you can wash with a hose.......like green WELLIES ........

Scat queen alert @r114

The heat wave is awful. I had to take my scarf off and just wear a light jacket on my walk to work today. Awful I tell you! Then I had to decide which bakery in North Beach had better cannolis for a little work party this evening. It was like Sophie’s Choice! It’s truly awful here, OP. And don’t get me started on the prosciutto choices! Stay far far away!

Cannolis and prosciutto oh, my!

and not too crowded

Like the crime trolls in NYC posts, the poop trolls come out in any SF post. It’s a great city - one of a kind in the world that every gay man should at least visit. People who,live there are lucky. Not possible for everyone and should be balanced with income/wealth. I’ve visited every year for 30+ years from NYC and love it - even if it’s issues and expand has increased over time, it’s beautiful and unique and gay.

R118 They found the most boring milquetoast people in America! Glad they’re gone. Stupid bitch complaining about the lockdown, boring white couple who bought a McMansion, and a fat sea cow who joined a book club and saw Hamilton in Tucson! Yes, their leaving San Francisco really was the end of our fair city.

I don't think it comes down to poop which is unfortunate but crime, quality of life, the homeless and the tech and other companies leaving SF and CA. But enjoy the weather and no need to apologize

Anyone who thinks San Franciscans are sad about people leaving really has no clue about San Francisco.

^ Typical San Franciscan.

They will resent your tourist ass. Skip it.

San Francisco's 19th and early 20th century architecture is sui generis. It is the American Barcelona in that respect.

'Victorian"?

No. Not really. Actually, not at all.

Victorian architecture is of brick or stone and is about propping up the British Empire.

San Francisco's architecture is far more flyaway fantasy than anything the UK and its commonwealth can show.

Smell Artsy McFartsy up there. ^

R125, yeah do.

I'll part my ass-cheeks, just a little wider that your dad usually does.

Breathe deep, pink boy.

R126 Your caftan would get in the way.

R122 shouldn't they be concerned if they are at all about the reasons people are leaving?

Given your jelly-bean peen and advanced age, I am confident you'd be quite creative about finding a solution, R127.

I am Angelino, moved to SF from 2018-2020 to try something different, then moved back to LA during the pandemic. I've just moved back recently and like everyone else, there are pros and cons.

Beautiful city and the weather is AWESOME! I love the weather. Jeans, T-shirts and sweaters year round. If you want broiling heat, just go outside the city and you'll have the high temps.

If you live near BART/Metro stations it is very easy to get around. A pass to use public transportation for a non-senior is $81 or $89/month - I have to buy a new pass today, but it's around that.

If you have a car, expect to pay around $400/month for parking. There are ton of smash and grabs or just smashes , which makes it tricky to street park, which is very hard to begin with. People will either find a neighborhood garage and park there for the aforementioned price, attempt street parking, and be carless.

Note - always look at the hotel parking fees if you drive in. A hotel could seem reasonable at 250-300/night, but parking is about 55+ a night at any hotel

For those who are dying to move to the city and get that rent controlled apartment, you can. Prices are much cheaper than they were when I lived here in 2019, but VERY expensive. A 555 sq ft apt in the Tenderloin is around 1995/month (was 2500) and an apartment in Nob Hill of the same square footage would be around 2500. Bottom line, a large studio or small one bedroom will run around 2500+parking (if you need it). Still, these same apartments were in the 3's when I left.

SF is slowly coming back but it has been the slowest to come back of the major cities, compared to LA, NYC, etc. Target, Safeway - places that should be open late close at 6pm. Retail is really dead here. Grocery stores close by 9 or earlier in many places. The bars and Castro are still lively but the city is much more empty than it was which isn't a bad thing. I was at a restaurant and the kitchen closed at 7:30 and there was a good crowd there.

The homelessness is really extreme. You can't escape it unless you are way out in the Sunset or a place that is far from what makes SF fun.

I love the City, but it feels really transient now. It's a great place to be gay and date, but a lot of gays have left. I went out with a guy who bought a beautiful condo near the Castro ready to build this amazing life to find everyone left town during the pandemic. I came back ready to make this my forever home, but TBD. It's extremely expensive and it's feels like it's running at 75%. I need to be patient - SF always comes back. Still, you pay the huge prices to live in the city.

The guys are cute. It's one of the few places where it feels majority gay and that's a fun feeling. Even in LA, where it's extremely open, nothing feels as gay as SF in terms of a city. On the flip side, it's very sex positive. If you love hookups, it's really easy but I think it's harder to find a monogamous relationship b/c everyone is hooking up. Pros - the sexual health and the city being on top of monkeypox etc is second to none really. They learned from the AIDS crisis and said never again.

I love it, but I have mixed feeling this go around, but I'm also having a shitty day. OH - speaking of, I have found SF pays the highest salaries of most cities I've seen or looked at positions in.

[quote] If you live near BART/Metro stations it is very easy to get around.

BART and metro (underground) are good for taking you off the SF peninsula and down Market Street, only. Getting around within the peninsula on public transportation takes patience and planning. But thanks for the info on current rents for small places in Nob Hill.

My aunt took the buses for years. Knew them like the back of her hand.

Driving a manual stick auto must be fun in SF...

How much are apts. in North Beach?

Don't try to rationalize with San Franciscans. They're quite a defensive and insular lot.

Seething with hisses towards anything new or different, unless they're a crackhead or a fugly gap-toothed DA thug enabler.

I get around SF just fine on my motorcycle, which like most of them has a manual transmission.

^ Smell your masculinity, Daddy.

Motos are bad for caftans amidst hills and Pacific breezes.

I borrowed my friend's car, an old, stick-shift Isuzu Trooper. My God, it was horrible, stop-and-go on Van Ness. I do know how to drive a stick shift, but that was a hard clutch. I'm guessing that a stick-shift BMW would be a different story.

It's a bit hairy when stopping on hills....rolling back until you hit first gear.

You have to use the handbrake when stopped on an incline and then when it’s time to go you have to get into first gear quickly and without flooding the engine. There’s a knack to it.

Endless sex

It is a gay paradise. If you are gay, I don't see how you could possibly want to live anywhere else.

It’s wonderful but it makes you soft. It’s such a bubble.

R124 Sui generis? Oh, brother.

Best Pride parades. Lots of dicks and ass on display

R144, feel free to name another city that t resembles.

HINT: Random UK "Victorian" Shithole is not a match.

[quote] Sui generis?

My entire wardrobe is Sui Generic and I have the most beautiful clothes. There is a very old queen who works there is an absolute genius when it comes to fashion. I can easily spend 1000 dollars there but all my pieces last forever and they are gorgeous. Pro to SF- great fashion and the perfect weather to wear it. SG is one of the gems of SF.

Like NYC waaay too crowded, dirty and expensive.

As has been observed, climate change is going to make SF even more desirable... it's weird geography (sitting on the tip of a peninsula) and topography (hills in the city and north funneling in ocean air) means it's rarely hot. Even this weekend with temperatures in adjacent parts of CA reaching over 100 degrees, SF may hardly break 80.

Come take a break from the weather that is killing you and your neighbors! San Francisco - air that won't kill you!!

Just a matter of time?

Sui Generis is a consignment shop in the Castro. “Sui generis” is Latin for (approximately) “in a class of its own,” which is presumably what Mr. Arty-Fartsy meant when he referred to SF’s architecture that way.

Sinking ship

That sinking feeling

At least San Francisco isn’t in Texas.

Powerless

9 out of the 15 cities are in California

CA home of the homeless

Sad how jealous some idiot is that he can’t live in San Francisco. I’d rather sink in an earthquake than live in whatever flyoverstan hell hole you call home. Yes, Mary at R157, someone already posted that one. It’s awful here-stay away.

Golden State is tarnished

As bad as California?

Watch your step!

present tense

R158 good or you. and your narrow-mindedness. It's not either/or. CA or flyover states. Other options exist.

Keep cool

R154 How does Californ

^ how does CA rank?

Future forecast

See U in September

They call it

Grant Avenue, San Francisco,

California, U.S.A.!

Looks down from Chinatown

Over a foggy bay.

You travel there in a trolley,

In a trolley up you climb!

Dong! Dong! You're in Hong Kong,

Having yourself a time.

You can eat, if you are in the mood,

Shark-fin soup, bean cake fish!

The girl who serves you all your food

Is another tasty dish!

so appetizing!

Skip the fish entree R169

flaming out

So many San Franciscans patting themselves on the back about climate change around the rest of the world. That level of smugness and self- satisfaction pretty much sums up their insufferableness.

CA has so many issues

Ha! The bitter resentful flyover frau-phags have descended. Enjoy your droughts and Olive Gardens, midwestern turd blossoms!

How rich, a San Franciscan laughing at others about drought and turds.

California is in another year of drought and the shit on the street situation in SF is no secret. Truly delusional.

-Living in my dilapidated Castro rent-controlled apartment, windows and plumbing are broken and heat hasn't worked since 1992. However I'm too terrified to raise them to my landlord for fear they'll evict me. I pay $800, my neighbors pay $3200.

Do tell us about the mass of tourist income your little town gets, R176. Oh, do.

And we're not talking about your drive-by glory hole at the interstate gas station.

Such mixed feelings, reading all this. I lived in SF when Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone were shot and killed and when the Jim Jones temple people committed suicide. The city was roiling. So many people crowded into the street with their candles to mourn Harvey.

My best memory of the city was getting lost in Chinatown, pre-cell phones, and just keeping on walking because what else was there to do. I watched as all the businesses began to segue from Chinese to Italian and ended up in a restaurant in North Beach. I ordered arancini. At the time it seemed like the best food I’d ever eaten. The waiter was just over from Italy so we mostly communicated by smiling and apologizing. He was sweet. I stumbled into the City Lights bookstore, too, and felt like some naive bumpkin. Very Serious Books everywhere.

As miserable as I was after the Moonies sucked me in, I was finding bits and pieces of the city that I could care about. I’m sorry now that I was so hard on it in my earlier post. I loved the Castro theater.

R177. LOL at you. San Franciscan here and pompous blowhards like you are insufferable. Biding our time here.

And, if by tourists, you mean the Sacramento and Central Valley crowd driving in to watch the Giants and staying the weekend at the Marriott Marquis while eating at the Union Square Cheesecake Factory, then your delusion is even grander.

Even Miami has more expensive rent that SF now. No one wants to be here.

R175 sorry to inform you that many places have dining options other than Olive Garden. btw CA has Olive Gardens as well.

R175 speaking of droughts

R179 I own a shop in North Beach and have had a wonderful summer meeting European tourists and helping them find interesting places to visit and eat. They’ve also spent a lot of tourist dollars so, I’m not sure what the heck you’re talking about. I’m not R177 but just wanted to point out that you seem to be either lying or speaking out of your ass.

OP As you can see everyone has an opinion of San Francisco. I love it here but it is expensive to live. That said, there are plenty of wonderful places to eat and drink on the cheap once you are in the know. I packed up 18 years ago and moved here from the Midwest. I’ve met some of the kindest people on earth and I’ve stepped over my share of shit. I find the good outweighs the bad most of the time and it’s a truly lovely city.

a pre pandemic trend

R182 Smell you and your North Beach trinket shop. So you had two European tourists who bought your overpriced tchotchkees.

Did they make up for the shoplifting and broken windows SF merchants seem to be slammed with these days?

No need to lie when the facts speak for themselves.

North Beach isn't like THOSE neighborhoods

But that was during the pandemic!!!

R182 Were you at the meeting, asking "What about the European tourists? Where will they go to ask about places to eat and visit?"

R179 and according to one study

R184 You are unhinged and presumably one of the streetshitters of San Francisco. When they kick you off the computer at Civic Center Library today, please get some help. We’re concerned.

R184 That's all you got, LOL?

Sorry you're still trauamatized by your Repuglican family members. Must be hard to see your little safe haven turn into a literal shithole.

post pandemic

R190 I try not to argue with the mentally ill. Good day, miss.

Their overpriced crappy real estate is next.

R192 That's smart, because you've probably found you run into them daily in San Franshitco. Tell Gunther and Marta I said hi. Hope they enjoy the dildo they bought at your North Beach shop on their way to Burning Man.

We have now established that the Trump-loving Gish Galloper is from Texas.

Still so many European tourists here in SF. Just chatted to a lovely couple from England at Moby Dick’s.

And rents falling are a bad thing why exactly?

Because it reflects demand is dropping.

and thank you R196 from taking the time out from your lovely day to let us know

Two tourists = tons.

San Francisco snow: shattered glass

taking precautions

SF has stopped the spread of monkeypox.

I never realized that that Former New Yorker cunt had a west coast twin.

Compared to the rest of the USA SF still remains one of the better places to live. I have some heath issues and and can't drive so I love living in a place I can easily navigate by my feet or public transportation. It does have its problems but I can live with them. I rented a studio apartment less than a year ago and found the costs competitive with Phoenix being I don't need a car or pay super high electricity bills. Sadly I haven't been able to spend as much time as I wanted in the apartment because of family issues back in Phoenix.

The Dutch royals are coming to town!

Like most people in SF, my annual air-conditioning bill is $0.

Do old SF buildings use steam heat?

And now they've stopped the spread of Monkeypox too! Wow, San Franciscans no know shame when it comes to their delusions of grandeur.

(Read the article...)

Electric Vehicles in CA told to cut back due to energy concerns in

More grid concerns

We'll take anything at this point if it's European!

[quote] “The royal couple will be visiting from 9:20 to 10 a.m. on Tuesday, Sept. 6.” So… they’re only going to be here for 40 minutes?

Look at all these royals who actually LIVED in the US (shockingly, San Franshitco isn't where they lived....)

[quote] Do old SF buildings use steam heat?

I lived in an Edwardian apartment and there was a unit in there that looked like this, but not as fancy.

I guess it's called a radiator.

I don't know if it was steam or electric.

This thread has devolved into something quite hilarious. It's like there were a thread on airplane reservations and suddenly there's a flood of trolling about how the world is flat and there is a secret group lying to us about it.

If you think there are problems with CA, absolutely stay away. We'll still pay a disproportionate amount of federal taxes so the US gov can help out where it's needed.

Whoever's representing San Francisco is a hoot.

Making fun of Midwesterners who apparently are in a drought (like CA) and telling them to enjoy their turds (when SF has the street shit problem).

Then they conflate an article about the slowing down of monkeypox and proclaim it's stopped.

Then they try to make a 40 minute visit by some royals no one knows or care about a beacon of superiority.

You can't make this stuff up. Hilarious.

Enjoy your life in Mortville, R216!

The tragic flyover stans have invaded.

believe what you want R218 if that makes you feel better

Mortville, ha.

You're just mad some idiot tried to put Flyoverstanis down by accusing them of living in a drought among turds, thereby insulting San Franciscans who are actually doing that.

LOL.

Hanging on to the good old times...

I doubt flyover stans give a shit about San Francisco

Nor are they in a drought or dodging turds on the street.

or posting on DL

The same queens dissing San Francisco rhapsodise about living in Kentucky.

Okay, if you say so. San Franciscans are such a fragile snowflake group. They can't stand their city's truths being, well told.

Exodus

People with limited imaginations and small lives will always enjoy the schadenfreude of the big city horror stories du jour because it justifies decades spent doing nothing outside of their meager comfort zones.

Castro business owners fed up

believe what you want [R218] if that makes you feel better

repeat for R228

(^.^) Dr. Phil has joined the discussion

Smell your big words!

[quote] People with limited imaginations and small lives will always enjoy the schadenfreude of the big city horror stories du jour because it justifies decades spent doing nothing outside of their meager comfort zones.

And... it hasn't been a horror "du jour" ... it's been about a decade in the making.

R228

just the facts

I've lived here for fifteen years, and I don't want to live anywhere else.

There are so many places to enjoy in SF, but I'll tell you what to AVOID: The Tenderloin, downtown SF unless you want to check out the Yerba Buena/SFMOMA museum. Union Square if you must, but you're not missing out much. Also, avoid Fisherman's Wharf at all costs.

This is a great city, but you've got to keep your wits about you. Not as much as New York City, but don't relax so much that someone swipes your phone from your very hands while you're walking down the street, because you weren't paying attention.

Each neighborhood is like a mini town. Each of these mini-towns have a main street. For example, Clement Street was mentioned up above. That would be the "main street" of inner Richmond neighborhood. Or Irving Street would be the "main street of the Sunset. 24th Street or even Valencia, would be the main street of the Mission neighborhood, Castro Street and 18th Street for the Castro, Columbus Avenue for North Beach, you get my drift. I don't mean that these are the only streets of interest in those neighborhoods, but it's a good way to orient yourself as they are the main arteries of the neighborhood's heart.

This city has great parks, like the obvious Golden Gate Park, but also Dolores Park, Alta Plaza, Buena Vista Park, etc. etc. It's also great for city hikes. There are tons of books and websites to give you some suggestions for fun and interesting walks, just be prepared for the hills.

If you go to the Golden Gate Bridge and you're disappointed because it's obscured by the fog, don't fret. Just wait a couple of hours and the fog will lift. Although it's cool to walk across the bridge when it's foggy, it's like walking inside a cloud.

Don't bother with renting a car, just Lyft/Uber and take public transportation.

Lastly, don't stay in a hotel downtown. Consider a hotel like the Queen Anne or the Hotel Kabuki in the Japantown area, the Hotel Driscoll in the Pacific Heights neighborhood, Noe's Nest Bed and Breakfast on Guerrero St, or even the Inn San Francisco (you'll be smack dab in the middle of the Mission District, which isn't always the safest at night, but it's a great hotel).

Have fun OP, or any future tourist. We love tourists here as the money you spend here goes to fund our social programs.

There’s a new small hotel in the Castro - it’s pretty expensive (what isn’t?) but right in the midst of the action.

I’d much rather live in LA where I can hobnob with celebrities

I wouldn't stay in the Mission District. I've always thought that area was overrated.

Just another day weighing your drugs on the street in broad daylight in San Francisco

I dunno, the Mission sounds like a great place to get your fix on. Just take BART!

[quote] I’d much rather live in LA where I can hobnob with celebrities

Some have even parked in unsuspecting fans’ living rooms.

The availability of drugs is one of the perks of living in SF. The church ladies on this thread don't know how to have fun.

And the crime associated with the drug trade and drug addiction is why SF has so much culture!

The rest of the world just doesn't understand our advanced ways!

The number one church lady is r244. Have some fun grandma before you die Grandma.

Yes, join the party!

Drugs are for the cool kids!

Former New Yorker has the weirdest kink.

Nancy Reagan lives it seems. Drugs are great. If r246 used them he would be a happier person instead of the old bitter queen that hi is.

The issue is also the hotels are downtown - which is the worst area of SF,

SF needs more tourists

Car break-in Hertz business

I just booked my folks a stay at Hotel Griffon across from the Ferry Building. Safe, pretty area and quiet at night. It was less than $200 a night.

Good find, R252.

Nice location. The Embarcadero is a pleasant place for a stroll. Or if you want somehing more taxing, climb up to Coit Tower via the Filbert Steps.

Boring. Only squares don't partake!

Embarcadero is totes safe. But you can't get any drugs there!

No wonder the hotel was cheap.

Homelessness in Georgia out of control, can't walk on sidewalks.

Never! San Francisco is the best!

Here’s a good list of places and things to experience in SF and the rest of the Bay Area.

That list is for losers. SF is all about drugs drugs drugs!

The recently inaugurated Crosstown Trail runs diagonally across SF and takes in a huge variety of cityscapes and parkland.

I first took LSD in San Francisco and have been so happy since.

I left my 💩 in San Francisco Bay

Maybe I should just do more drugs and be happier

Buzz killer Newsom

The Drisco Hotel is a safe bet

(^.^) and it's near the Mrs. Doubtfire house

I've only been there once. I'm from Seattle so I wasn't terribly impressed. I can see why people from people from the east coast/Midwest are impressed by the beauty and culture. The true jewel of the west coast is Vancouver BC.

Exactly how I felt about Seattle. There was no “there” there. Why one would choose to live in that dreary place is beyond me. And so many Bros!

Vancouver is okay if you like mountains and kayaking and healthy granola and hiking and mountains and water sports and hiking and mountains and bran.

If you like actual, you know, cities, it is a bit of a busted flush.

Those Seatle folks clearly need drugs to be happier.

Just like me!

I spent my last days HAPPY thanks to drugs!

PNP until I die!

Seattle and Vancouver do have something SF doesn’t: ocean views from downtown. But SF’s winters are warmer, shorter, and much less rainy.

(and I know Puget Sound and Georgia Bay aren’t exactly “the ocean,” but both are more spectacular than SF Bay is.)

Newsom did the right thing. We need to send the addicts back to the red-state shitholes they came from, not encouraging them to consume more drugs.

Poop on the street!

[quote] George Michael spent his final years 'bingeing on prostitutes and drugs'

Doesn’t sound like a bad way to go

Moar drugs!

Who needs an ocean view when you can score much easier in SF!

The Summer of Love

As wildfires burn. Imagine if these were electric vehicles!

LA over SF anytime

It’s why Airbnb is the only way to go in SF. No hotels in he decent areas - most are in the worst areas of the city near Union Square. Hotel Drisco is one of the few decent locations - but it tends to be absurdly expensive. You can get Airbnbs for less - if still too expensive, at least more affordable and in the Castro,

The men are hotter in LA - just ask them.

I thought SF banned Airbnb?

SF didn’t ban Airbnb rentals, but it has put strict limits on them.

Stricl limits on Airbnbs but streets are a free for all.

Typical SF stupidity.

After a high of 96°F at noon, we’re down to a pleasant 74° at 6pm. That’s the nice thing about heat waves here in SF: they never last too long.

It got up to 100 in my SOMA neighborhood yesterday. At 5:30, I headed out to the Castro to meet friends, and it was 89. By the time I left at 7:30, it was down to 74. This morning, it's clear and slightly breezy and a very pleasant 64.

How many junkies did you have to avoid between SOMA and Castro?

Did the shade from their tents help with the heat?

Were they able to cook their crack on the sidewalks?

R289 I only remember seeing you as I made the trip, shoving a 13-inch dildo up your ass as you screamed, "Fuck me, daddy! Or anybody, really!"

Sounds like a typical day on the SOMA streets.

Tourists must love coming home to boast "Man we survived such a shitty city!"

overdoses almost double the death toll of COVID 19

Honestly these FoxNews loonies who are obsessed with bashing cities are strange. What is the agenda? Why the hate? It seems to come from an insecure place - somehow to make themselves feel better. I don’t really have a house in the race - but the repetitive bombardment of negative news is something I’ve only seen in right wing news - and Datalounge,

I suspect it's that shit-smeared cunt, Former New Yorker, doing double duty.

The same "froth at the mouth" quality.

So, Fox News is the problem? R294 Just ignore and the problems will disappear, and you might want to avoid the SF Examiner, The Chronicle, CBS . . .

BTW R294 don't despair NYC is far more dangerous and violent.

Ah...so it IS Former New Yorker.

Can someone start a thread about Cleveland? Maybe if we get enough city threads in play, this freak will masturbate over their crime reports all day and we'll have spared the planet his presence otherwise.

Done!

Whoops!

Stay out of Texas too.

Stay away from Miami.

Meanwhile, in Oklahoma

Red states are so violent! Stay away!

Chicago gets bragging rights. Only 11 killed!

NY Mayor Adams deserves credit

Labor Day weekend in Philly

thanks for the warning R301 but as a general rule I avoid homeless camps whenever I can

Let’s summarize:

OP, if you insist on visiting San Francisco in December, you will be knee-deep in shit the entire time; you will be forcibly injected with fentanyl; you will be subjected to brutal 100+ temperatures; and you will be robbed (despite having spent all your cash on $5000 hotel rooms and $150 sandwiches) and/or murdered.

Don’t say you weren’t warned!

It’s so horrible people are willing to spend more money to live there than anywhere else in the US.

Not quite R310

proximity to NY💲💲💲

Crime don’t climb.

Yes it does.

Maybe talk to your neighbors up there in Russian Hill

I love SF. But I think it's very true (as poster #13 unfortunately found out) that to live there is not the same as to visit there. I'm from LA and whenever me and my husband want to get a way and feel like we're really somewhere different we take a short flight to SF. It's just small enough to not be overwhelming and the weather is a welcome change from the SoCal climate. There are some great restaurants and lots of culture both high and low. The Castro isn't what it used to be ( whatever that means) but it has great history and cultural significance for the LGBTQ+ community. I love Nob Hill (which is where The Fairmont is where we always stay) and the little park in front of Grace Cathedral which has two labyrinths that people love to walk and meditate. It's one of my favorite city's in the world.

SF leads the way

The City has its priorities 🍄

Who cares about crime, the abandoned downtown, public and mass transport infrastructure, schools, low wage workers, etc.

Drugs first! 💉

r314, and then it rolls down to Glen Park.

Home to the homeless

Clearly those homeless need more drugs to just be happier!

Maybe their landlord tripled their rent. Every San Franciscan's nightmare, besides running out of drugs!

Five strikes and you get a slap on the wrist!

So is the cunt posting all these stories Former New Yorker or another cunt?

The. California exodus has been good for those of us who are going to stay here. Another million to leave from the Bay Area and another million leaving from Southern California and much better for us.

There's no 'there' there.

^ Typical San Franciscan NIMBYs.

San Fran's fine. But they gotta lotta shit on the sidewalks.

R324 If it upsets you don't look at it. It upsets me, as an ex-New Yorker, but all this calling people a troll and trying to stifle them is so boring and calling Muriel for God's sake. Get a fucking life!

It's called Frisco now!

R325 and as businesses leave what happens to jobs, the economy and tax revenue?

Companies leaving CA has been trending even before the pandemic

All those companies leaving and California still has the #1 US Economy.

and then there's this

and quality of life and the environment. 9/15 most polluted cities are in CA

the grid! the grid!

🙋‍♂️🙋‍♀️

The ladies doth protest too much. I smell jealousy of those of us who live in LA or the city. I'm sure whatever American city you are from is way better, lol.

[quote] I smell jealousy of those of us who live in LA or the city.

LA dwellers don't envy SF. It's the other way around.

It's true, R339. I'm from LA but live in SF and I do not get the one sided rivalry. Nobody from LA cares about SF other than to say they might enjoy is as a weekend get away. I don't understand why some people here get so nasty about people from LA. I always tell them the same thing as this post - it's one sided!

LA is like Phoenix or Dallas without a beach. LA is an ugly sprawl and that sums it up.

Hardly, R341

R341, that is nonsense and you'd know it if you had any idea about architecture at all.

After Boston and Chicago, LA has the best architecture of any American city - and the best mid-century architecture of any city at all.

LA is a shithole. No one in San Francisco is jealous of LA and that is simply a fact. Also, fuck LA. Start your own damned thread about that shithole. God, I have PTSD just thinking of the short time I lived there. It’s truly soul-sucking and hideous.

I was in the Castro today and there was a massive line at the Castro Theater for the opening of the gay comedy "Bros". Billy Eichner was doing a Q&A. Last night they showed Salo for the Italian film festival. There is always something or someone interesting to do in San Francisco.

were they giving away free tickets for Bros R345?

Teetering on the edge of a mass exodus poll shows

🙋‍♀️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♀️🙋‍♂️

🙋‍♂️💲🙋‍♂️💲🙋‍♂️💲

North/South streets are for shitting, East/West are for shooting up.

San Fransisky? So, did you drove or did you flew?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

what a waste!

For many it has gotten worse

MOST BEAUTIFUL CITY IN THE WORLD, AND IVE BEEN EVERYWHERE. THE MEDIA IS FULL OF BULL SHIT.

I grew up there and I watched the tech industry money take over the peoples brains. The setting is fabulous however, Greed won in the bay area if you'r from someplace like that already you should feel right at home. You will find the best of everything. Including forlorn people and homeless encampments. Super yachts and fine dining galore. Personally i think we need to reintroduce the Grizzly bear to the area where it once roamed in great numbers to take care of the varmint problem.(People)

The annoying thing about modern day yuppies, is that they all want to be seen as cool and hip. Yuppies from the 80s knew they were corporate drones and that hip people looked down on them. Nowadays they imagine themselves as bohemians (despite their six figure salaries) and they occupy spaces that used to be safe havens for less moneyed creatives and outsiders.

I lived there from 2011-2017. It is a wonderful place to visit, especially if you avoid the tourist traps. Family and friends loved to come there and crash at my place.

I found it difficult to afford SF, even with rent control. In 2013 or so, I started to only meet tech workers and watched 90% of my friends leave the Bay Area because they could no longer afford it. For me the final straw was when my landlord wouldn't do anything to fix my leaking roof or the heaters that caused a fire in our building.

I haven't been back since I moved away (not a native to SF/CA) so can't comment on anything since then.

the pacific ocean, north beach, chinatown, little italy, ferry building, coit tower, la gg bridge.....etc.....its a jewel of a city. if you want the city of poetry and fab history, this is the one. all the 'negative' stuff becomes jus part of the pastiche.......as mark twain said. ive lived here 40 years, and hate to leave it even for a few days.

[quote] the pacific ocean, north beach, chinatown, little italy, ferry building, coit tower, la gg bridge.

I'm embarrassed to say that I have lived here 3 years and did not know that SF had a Little Italy. I'm from SoCal originally, but I know every other spot on the list. Where is SF's little Italy? I thought it was predominately the Irish who settled here back in the day.

though you have to admit it's changed in the last 100+ years since Twain (1835-1910) lived there.

[quote] I'm embarrassed to say that I have lived here 3 years and did not know that SF had a Little Italy.

Exhibit A: guileless 20something tech brohole flying by on an e-scooter while vaping and nearly knocking down longtime residents; almost a worse infestation than the homeless zombies bussed in from Bakersfield.

Little Italy would be North Beach. I don't know what it's like now, but I enjoyed Mario's. It's called a cigar shop, but I ate there.

Golden Boy PIzza is great in North Beach

R322 we heard you the first eighteen times. Honestly, your obsessive posting about drugs makes you seem like you…. ARE ON DRUGS!!

Tony Bennett left hish heart in Shan Frachisco.

R7

I said it about Balmoral first.

A local (still!) establishment, if you find yourself roaming the Marina. It was my go to for hangover food or to make a picnic in Cressy Field.

Otherwise, the Marina was a great place to live (think Clinton years). Sunny days, sexy straight Stanford and Cal boys roaming in shorts and flip-flops…and an easy drive for sleazy Saturday night sexcapades in/around Folsom St.

Here’s the missing link to a great S.F. deli.

Little Asian queens everywhere!

bums are off the street, city rented covid empty hotels and puts em all up in em for free. tents gone. tourists back. I LOVE VISITING THERE....GEORGOUS SHANGRI LA

If you're not into drugs, and just a homebody, your crazy neighbors may flood your luxury $3,000-$6,000/mo apartment!

Expensive floods at expensive luxury apartments seem to be all the rage now in SF

And just a few blocks away, this multimillion dollar complex may actually be fixed so it stops sinking!

Hope you all planning to move here have a rainy day account for emergency housing and special assessments. No one said SF was clean or cheap!

Former New Yorker cunt is back in the saddle. Yay.

Wrong, but you must be coming down from your high from the How Weird street fair.

Is it time to euthanize the homeless drug addicts? They seem to get off on wrecking havoc and just blaming it on their addiction. Maybe they're just fucking cunts?

I lived there a couple of years ago...we paid over 4500 for a under 900 sq place with parking and no a/c

No one who lived in the City would ever actually *need* a/c…non-sequitor.

[Quote]Former New Yorker cunt is back in the saddle. Yay.

AND SO IS THE CRAZED LOON WHO STALKS FNY Seymour ⬇️

[Quote]...because reading crime stat after crime stat is so fascinating and useful? What is the point of it?

It doesn't upset me to look at these threads. I just find it weird that FNY posts almost nothing but crime stats, thousands of them over dozens of threads - so I occasionally comment on it.

Speaking of... if it "upsets" you to read the crime stats, [R166] as you just claimed, why would you post [R117] ("Two stabbed") and [R118] (about a woman shot to death)?

Come to think of it - "an ex-New Yorker" sounds very much like "Former New Yorker". Is that you, too? Just how many devices are you on?

I miss the old NYC that FNY and I lived in, but I still have a great life here, warts and all. It would be nice to share some of that here on DL - I kayaked all summer in nyc, for example- but FNY makes that impossible.

[Quote]I miss the old NYC that FNY and I lived in, but I still have a great life here, warts and all. It would be nice to share some of that here on DL - I kayaked all summer in nyc, for example- but FNY makes that impossible.

sounds like a great life so why keep writing meth laced tirades on a thread about SF?

R375 [Quote]Former New Yorker cunt is back in the saddle. Yay.

[Quote]No one who lived in the City would ever actually *need* a/c…non-sequitor.

Week considering the air quality and abundant feces an A/C might help clear the air.

And... surprise, people don't want to come to SF just to work (i.e, budget deficit for the City... more taxes imminent)

What is a safe neighborhood in SF to move to? I’m not from the area, but curious about relocating there. I have a car. Is that problematic? Do apartments have parking garages ? Are there some areas to definitely stay away from?

Safe neighborhoods are relative.

The expensive neighborhoods are safer, but criminals know this is where the money is at. You may not get shot, but you may very well get your car broken into, your apartment broken into, or your puppy stolen and a black eye and busted lip.

This was in Ru$$ian Hill.

Its really a pain in the ass to have a car and you honestly don’t need one living in the city. street parking you constantly move it around for street cleaning. Likely it’ll get smashed into lol. I think theres more parking on the sleepy burby westside. Just look at the “republican” parts of the city- the expensive parts. Marina, russian hill, hayes valley etc. i’d move to the mission (dangerous tho)

Noe Valley is nice and safe... and they're getting a $1.7 million public toilet! Because "it's expensive" to build shit in The City.

I lived here 17 years without a car and did just fine and was very anti-car. I got one last year because I have to take my dad to doctors appts often and I have to say…I secretly love having it! I pay 300/month to park it but I’ve been taking trips to Pt Reyes, Sausalito, Hell-the grocery store is even a joy now! That said, you don’t NEED a car but it sure does help.

Careful with your car, car thefts are pretty common amd accepted by SF resident.

Intro photo was shot at my gym parking lot (for all of you who somehow think I'm some random NYer or something).

It's lovely, I had a mother who lived there once.

Imagine living in the penthouse when during an earthquake

[quote] What is a safe neighborhood in SF to move to? I’m not from the area, but curious about relocating there. I have a car. Is that problematic? Do apartments have parking garages ? Are there some areas to definitely stay away from?

Depends on your budget. Having a car is a hassle, IMO, unless you have $300 per month, like R389, to pay for a designated parking spot. With a car, you do get to spontaneously go on little trips, though, like R389 describes. It's just so expensive.

When I lived in SF, a friend thought she was doing me a favor and lent me her car for a few days while she was on vacation. She didn't have a designated parking space, so I was kind of doing her a favor in that it was up to me to find parking.

That car got broken into twice (parked on the street at night). I paid to repair the driver's side window (first break-in), then just let my friend deal with the insurance for the 2nd break-in. In retrospect, I shouldn't have even paid for the 1st break-in.

@ 3:12 Maher talks about SF and discusses San Francisco 'snow' i.e. shattered glass from car windows

In terms of having a car, it really matters where you live in San Francisco. Somewhere like the Outer Sunset it's better to have a car, and parking is less of a hassle. Plus parking is slow and inconvenient. Somewhere more central and urban like like Nob Hill, don't bother with the car unless you are very rich.

R392 [Quote]Imagine living in the penthouse when during an earthquake

as I was saying

I was in my office across the street from that building when it happened. Half our floor (20th) didn't even notice (well the other of the two of us who were actually in the office). The discussions on the street at lunch echoed the same observation.

Earthquakes are harmless for most skyscrapers, especially the Ring of Fire. They're built on rollers to ride the force of the quake out.

(^.^) good news

Cesspool of a city run by white elitists.

You might as well visit any other random cosmopolitan city in the world. They all look and feel the same, and all you see is tourists, yuppies, expats, rich kids pretending to be bohemians and their poor serfs.

Starbucks and the Big Red Bus are everywhere.

R401 And you can just stay in your trailer and pick ticks off your cat.

Have fun at your friends' wedding!

Oops.

it aint nasty no mo, city leased covid empty hotels and put the homeless in em. so nice now.

It's going down⬇️⬇️⬇️

Aaannnnddd…..it says the median fell to $1.2 MILLION! When you have $1,2 million to spend, you can choose to reject that apartment. Until then it’s just sour grapes.

R407 The median home price is decreasing somewhat because borrowing interest rates have more than doubled in 2022, which greatly reduces prospective buyers' purchasing power -- end of. Typical NY Post anti 'Coastal Elites' bullshit.

Stats are from Compass not the Post

R408

$1,250,000 63 Eton Row, Weehawken, NJ 07086

1,645 sqft Year Built 2013

Housing prices in SF are falling, but they're also falling where I want to retire soon (based on selling my house in SF). Am still nervous. Downtown SF/FiDi will never recover. It's still an interesting place to live, so people will always want to move here.

Strands of my blonde hair still are found and lay about invariably here and there through the city, OP

OP, did you visit/still planning to visit?

I used to "work" in San Francisco. Fun. Sad. Adventurous. Sexual. I am finally writing a book about it, hopefully done by fall 2023. I worked for an escort agency and I freelanced. Met lots of different guys from all walks of life.

r415, congrats on being the 415, which few here will get.

Meanwhile, let me ask, are you writing for the legitimate theatre?

I'm a born-and-raised Angeleno, and I love visiting the Bay Area. I try to visit once per season.

R416 = Theatre? No. Just a collection of stories I think people will enjoy. Honest stories. True things that happened. People I met. Kids working the bars and streets. College guys (and wannabe actors) working the escort agencies. Rich men buying their fun. Pervs targeting the weak. Things I lived and experienced. Once I finish it I will work on getting it published but I am quite a ways off. It will be funny and tragic. I don't want to give too much away but it will be different.

(^.^) sounds familiar

R419 = Don't be so sure. I wouldn't be writing something generic. Trust me. This story has a twist.

r417, that's quite often. What do you like to do up here? Where do you stay, where do you go?

Used to travel many times per year down there, pre-COVID, as my employer's HQ is located in Ventura County. Used to hate it, but now see it for what it is. If I have free time, my favorite thing to do is ride the bus down Santa Monica Blvd from WeHo to Santa Monica and just people watch. It feels like crazy Bay Area people (but much friendlier) who have nice beaches.

R414 I was going to, but I lost my job so the money I was saving for my trip is going to live off of.

[Quote] Don't be so sure. I wouldn't be writing something generic. Trust me. This story has a twist.

but what you wrote at R418 is the definition of generic

R423 = Because I don't want to give it away!!!.....I told you!!....I have a story!!!....Plus don't be so sure I didn't meet celebs!!...

(^.^) DAD

“I had an encampment in front of my house for four months — 40 feet of crap and crazy people. The encampment leader screamed at me every time I left my house,” she said. “The most important decision of my life — buying this house — turned out to be a mistake.”

r422, OP, Fuck. Am so sorry for this turn of events for you. Hope you bounce back with a new job soon. The current economy is just psycho. What matters most is that you do not take the job loss personally, no matter what the circumstances were. Hang in there and believe in yourself and move forward. Might be time to temporarily lower your expectations.

Have been following this thread that you started about my hometown, and hearing stories from interesting, creative people who used to live here, but were priced out has been sad but familiar. Pisses me off. Vast majority of my friends and younger relatives have left, but now housing prices are finally starting to fall. The #1 most interesting thing about living here is the people who chose to live here. It's not the views or the moderate weather.

Hope you find a job and can visit or move here one day.

bums/junkies are mainly near downtown, in the tenderloin, frisco is the most magical purdy city ive ever sucked cock in, i cant live anywhere else.....i loves me my fog and ocean breeze, the weather is fab u assholes.

Some of the best ass i ever sucked and fucked were young bums who i cleaned up a bit first. i prefer the junkies to speed freaks.

Trees fell and power lines were downed in San Francisco as a powerful storm hit California and prompted evacuation orders in other parts of the state Wednesday, officials said.

Gov. Gavin Newsom earlier declared a state of emergency as the weather was expected to bring heavy rain, snow and flooding.

OP, sorry you didn't get to make your trip & sorry for losing your job. I think you're smart to spend the money on living expenses until you get financially well-situated, again.

I don’t think I’d want to live in SF, I think I’d prefer Sausalito because it’s so close to the city, but much prettier.

Tech got a bracing kick in the teeth as Salesforce said Wednesday that it is slashing 10% of its workforce, or roughly 8,000 jobs, as CEO Marc Benioff acknowledged that the software behemoth “hired too many people leading into this economic downturn.”

But this thread was never about Former New Yorker R298 till you came a stalking

[Quote]R380^ I never use ignore except as a trolldar tool, FormerNewYorker. It slows down scrolling through the thread, and with your 400 posts here, this one would be impossible to get through.

[Quote]You get in the way of conversation. This thread was originally about polio, for instance, but your 400 plus posts inhibited that discussion. You post your anti-NYC crime stats in threads that aren't even about NYC.

[Quote]Besides, your peculiar pathology is a little fascinating, and calling you out brings me a small measure of satisfaction. Since you will keep doing it, I will keep calling you out as often as I care to. Somehow, in the 2 decades I have been posting here, I've never been a Muriel-designated redlined troll, as you have at least twice, and likely many more times.

[Quote]Probably many more times to come, I imagine.

[Quote]Have you picked your next thread to infest? No matter, there is no need to stalk you. You give yourself away.

[Quote] Somehow, in the 2 decades I have been posting here, I've never been a Muriel-designated redlined troll, as you have at least twice, and likely many more times.

Pathetic that you spent 2 decades posting on DL R298

Visiting/Living/Leaving

downtown is a ghost town. now williams sonoma leaving along with chase bank and others, crate and barrel long gone. so many art gallerys on geary: gone. sad.....

Sad that this is happening to one of America's fabled cities.

Nordstrom is the latest company to call it quits in downtown San Francisco, announcing that its five-floor location at the Westfield Mall and its discount outlet, Nordstrom Rack, will be shutting down in the summer once the stores’ leases expire. According to the department store company, “the dynamics of the downtown San Francisco market have changed dramatically over the past several years, impacting customer foot traffic to our stores and our ability to operate successfully.”

Visiting/Living/Leaving ‎ An analysis of tax return data suggests that wealthy San Francisco residents moved out of the city during the early years of the pandemic, taking billions in income with them, according to according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

So once again, it will fall on the lower middle class and working class San Franciscans to carry the city forward, just like we did in the 80's.

Wondering if OP ever visited.

lived here for 40 yrs, its unchanged, the media doin a smear on our lovely city....

I visited the first time in 2009, and I thought it was beautiful. The landscape and architecture really impressed me.

We back in 2019, and it seemed like a different city almost because so many buildings downtown were under repair and covered in tarps, homeless people including families were everywhere and begging for money, and multiple Uber drivers lamented the high costs and warned us not to wander down unsafe streets. I couldn't believe how different the city felt in such a short time.

The change in NYC hasn't been as extreme, but I first went there in 2000 when I was 20 years old and it was pretty exciting then and a place I dreamed about living in, and now I wouldn't consider living there. It's so insanely expensive, there are stinky trash islands all over the place, apparently rats are primary residents now, half the sidewalks are covered by cheap looking scaffolding that obscures all the architectural interest...weird stuff.

One thing I didn't anticipate about aging is how radically something like a city and its appeal can change within a decade or two.

R442=Stevie WONDERful

Visited San Francisco first week in July 2019. Was surprised at how laid back this city is, it was extremely cold for a July, surprised ar how dirty it was. Finally endured 2 earthquake scares

It's fucking HELL ON EARTH y'all!

Visiting/Living/Leaving

R445 San Francisco is not a city known for balmy weather. June and July can be two of the city's chilliest months. The best weather comes in late August and September. That's the city's true "summer."

[quote] What is it really like living in San Francisco?

SF business owner punched in face by man urinating outside shop frustrated by lack of 'consequences'

"I just got punched in the face by a guy that was pissing on the street. I can't believe I live in a city where people can just piss in the street and punch you in the face and get away with it," said Harter on Instagram.

During our interview, Harter said he was upset to see the perpetrator walk away.

"He just walked away and I think that's going to be a thing that scars me. It's the fact that he just walked off, like no consequences," said Harter.

In a statement, SFPD said in part: "Officers processed the scene for evidence and authored an incident report. No arrests have been made. This is an open and active investigation."

After posting what happened on social media, Harter said he received multiple messages of San Francisco residents and business owners with similar stories.

"I want someone to be empathetic and understand what we are going through. I don't feel like you see that and I think that's the frustrating part. It's not just me. It's a lot of people going through this on a daily basis. This is nothing," said Harter.

I don’t know what going in December will be like, I’m not a native, I’ve only visited and it was 4 times, 10-20 years ago. I’m sure things are very different. I had a friend who lived in the Haight but moved to Sausalito. I went August-September 3 times, late Feb.-early Mar. once. Experienced one oppressive heat wave, went to the beaches several times, and Yosemite (not much cooler there). Nobody had AC in their apartments at the time, since it wasn’t needed.

I liked doing touristy things like Sonoma, some of Napa, Sausalito-Tiburon, ate at Guyamas. I walked up to Coit Tower...probably should have ridden...often avoided, it has a spectacular view. Also always went to Asia SF.

(Gorgeous fem Asian guys in drag performing/lip-syncing to pop songs.)

But you might get into hot water for hosing down a homeless person R449

The San Francisco gallery owner who was recorded hosing down a homeless woman camped out on the sidewalk and later charged with battery over the incident is speaking out. In a piece at the Wall Street Journal, Collier Gwin admits he lost his temper and shouldn't have sprayed the woman—but, he says, the video of the incident doesn't capture "the frustration and helplessness of my neighbors and me," nor his "anger at what the city has become." The "mentally ill" woman had, he explains, left "an unsanitary mess" in front of his art gallery, not for the first time, then refused to move so he could clean it up. This after reports of her stealing things, defecating and performing sex acts on herself in front of nearby businesses, and screaming and spitting at people on the street.

In order to live in SF you have to be willing to put up with a lot of shit

I've lived in SF for 20 years. I love it here and have no intention of leaving.

If you visit, avoid the Tenderloin and the Lower Mission Street (from about 13th Street to the Embarcadero). Downtown is dead because workers are not coming back, they prefer work from home, so the homeless have taken over. If you do need to go to these areas, the only worthwhile places to visit are the Ferry Building, SFMOMA, and Yerba Buena Park. Many tourist still like to take the cable car at Powell Street, and it's safe to do so during the day.

Do not get trapped in the Fisherman's Wharf area - it's a tourist hell.

Neighborhoods worth visiting:

North Beach (great Italian food, Coit Tower, Washington Square, St. Peter and Paul's Church, City Light Books, Vesuvio Cafe, The Stinking Rose)

Chinatown - pickpocketing is common, so keep your valuables close and pay attention.

Hayes Valley (near the Tenderloin, so be careful, but it has good restaurants and boutique stores)

Japantown

Upper Fillmore

Pacific Heights and Potrero Hill neighborhoods, for the views.

The Haight (watch out for homeless folks, but they generally leave you alone). I personally find the Haight over-hyped, but tourists seem to enjoy themselves.

The Inner Sunset - Irving Street from 6th Avenue to 25th Avenue, and Inner Richmond - Clement Street from Arguello to Park Presidio). Tourists love the Moraga Steps, the neighbors less so, so don't bug them.

Land's End/Ocean Beach - Sutro Baths.

Valencia Street/Mission Street/24th Street

The Castro/Noe Valley/18th Street to Dolores Park

Bernal Hill - Bernal Hill Park and Cortland Avenue

It's a city, so don't go about your business distracted. Don't walk around talking on your phone not paying attention. Take with you only what you need if you are that worried. If you have a bag that is open, don't be surprised if someone sneaks a hand in there and takes your wallet. Have everything ready in case someone does steal your phone or bag - for example, know the phone numbers for your banks, credit cards, etc. so you can alert them if they get stolen, etc. Basic preparedness, is what I mean. If you are going to use Muni buses or trains, or BART for that matter, have your clipper card ready. Do not be pulling your cash out like a dumb ass waving it around. Just take out what you need. Don't leave your bags unattended, even when they are righy next to you, keep a hold of them. This is all very basic to those of us who live in cities, but it seems like a major blind spot for some tourists.

Our summer is from late August to late October. Bring a light jacket if it's warm, because it gets cold at night. It gets foggy in the evenings, especially in the Sunset and the Richmond. Speaking of SF summers, the best free show is our sunsets, which are beautiful from Ocean Beach.

Enjoy yourselves!

Last suggestion: check out SF City guides. They have free walking tours of the city, where you learn a lot about the area you are visiting. a $10-20 donation is always appreciated.

(^.^) and has CAs cheapest hotel rates this summer

[Quote] San Francisco is not a city known for balmy weather. June and July can be two of the city's chilliest months. The best weather comes in late August and September. That's the city's true "summer."

It's called climate change

I left my heat in San Francisco

Do any DLers have optimism for the city? Are better days ahead? It seems like it’s loved to hate it, but I think most of agree it has cultural and historical merits.

I’m optimistic about SF. It’s a liberal city. It’s unique. It has natural beauty and is close to places like Napa and Muir Woods.

R456 That has been the weather in San Francisco for years. Hence Mark Twain’s famous comment: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”

R454 Most of my visits to San Francisco were 20 years ago, and it was nothing like you describe. It really has changed. Back then it seemed safe, and people were very friendly - I remember looking at a map and a shopkeeper came out of his shop and gave me directions. Certain areas seemed seedy at night. At the time there was a small homeless problem but it’s very different, now.

For first time tourists, I would not necessarily say to avoid all the tourist traps, like Fisherman’s Wharf, it’s different for a tourist than for a resident. If you don’t go on a weekend you can have some decent seafood and take a ferry across the Bay.

[Quote] That has been the weather in San Francisco for years. Hence Mark Twain’s famous comment: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”

but so much has changed since Twain was alive.

honey frisco aint no worse than any other big city....chicago, baltimore, phoenix, are worse.

[quote] frisco, .chicago, baltimore, phoenix, are worse.

Do these bad cities have anything in common ?

big population, all big citys have a shitload of homeless dear....

(^.^) and migrants

and more migrants

and no room at the shelter

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐑𝐢𝐜𝐡 𝐁𝐥𝐮𝐞 𝐒𝐮𝐛𝐮𝐫𝐛𝐬 𝐊𝐞𝐞𝐩 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐰𝐚𝐲

The noble migrants are the poor peoples' problem

San Francisco where they are experiencing hurricane-force winds and heavy rain from another powerful storm – known as a “bomb cyclone” – that is hitting the state’s coast.

R468 if Kamala is ineffectual . . .

[Quote] The noble migrants are the poor peoples' problem

You got that right Most Dems and GOPs leaders live behind walls and gates

CNN Senior National Correspondent Kyung Lah reported on crime in San Francisco retail shops on Monday night with a wild segment from the most-robbed Walgreens in the country.

Hit more than a dozen times a day when thieves try to cleaning out ice cream and frozen burritos, workers grew so frustrated they resorted to the chains. They were ordered down by corporate because of the negative messaging. But Walgreens isn’t the only retailer impacted in San Francisco. You have to ask an employee for help. At this store. Frozen food is controlled with a cable lock, fake eyelashes locked behind plexiglass along with lotion and nail polish at another grocery store. $14 bags of coffee under lock and key.

Lah then changes locations to another local grocery store and notes all the products behind glass.

“It’s become kind of like a police state in San Francisco. I don’t know how to describe it,” concluded a local shopper to Lah.

-------------------

NOT a police state. An anarchy

(^.^) cut to the video that shows shoplifting going on as CNN is doing a story

The homeless have taken over

Naked woman shoots up Bay Bridge traffic

OAKLAND, Calif. (KGO) -- All westbound lanes of Highway 24 shut down for reports of yet another freeway shooting involving two cars - for about half an hour Wednesday just after 11 a.m.

This comes just a day after all eastbound lanes of Interstate 80 were closed - on the east side of the Bay Bridge Toll Plaza.

No one was hurt after a naked woman fired a gun into oncoming traffic near the Bay Bridge toll plaza Tuesday night just before 5 p.m.

It shut down all eastbound lanes for about 12 minutes causing serious traffic delays for drivers leaving San Francisco.

Michael Crawford and his co-worker Alex were on their way back to the East Bay after work, when they came across a car parked sideways blocking multiple lanes of traffic.

"I heard the pop, like I saw her walking around and I heard (pop) and I was like oh, that's a gun, that's actually a gun so I heard it before I saw it," Crawford said.

-----------------

This sort of thing wouldn't be happening if she just got her reparations checks

R460

[quote]Most of my visits to San Francisco were 20 years ago, and it was nothing like you describe. It really has changed. Back then it seemed safe, and people were very friendly - I remember looking at a map and a shopkeeper came out of his shop and gave me directions. Certain areas seemed seedy at night. At the time there was a small homeless problem but it’s very different, now.

I don't know what parts of the city you visited 20 years ago, but for me as a resident, the changes are much more noticeable in the downtown and Tenderloin/Civic Center/lower Mission areas. The lack of office workers has exacerbated the problem massively. The homeless simply took over and the office workers are not returning. I don't know what the solution will be. However, even 20 years ago, you had to watch your back if you were walking on Market Street between Van Ness and 5th Street. People were openly shooting up in broad daylight there, that is nothing new. Same for the Tenderloin/Civic Center area. The high amount of office workers gave you the impression that it was safer, but the problem was there under the surface.

But in general, things have not changed that much in the outer neighborhoods. There has always been homeless people everywhere, but some neighborhoods experience more. The major change is seeing homeless in the neighborhoods west of the city, like the Richmond and the Sunset. Again, you could see homeless people in these neighborhoods, but not as much as now. I think this happened because during the pandemic, the city housed several homeless people in hotels and motels, and once that was over, the decided to stay put.

However badly it has gotten, nothing compares to how bad San Francisco was in the 80's. The crime then was far worse than today. I remember visiting friends in the Mission and having to by pass certain BART stops because of gang turf wars. These were problems that tourists would never know about.

I do agree though that the homeless population has increased since 20 years ago, and people were friendlier then too. This city has gotten so gentrified, so many have left for the East Bay for the cheaper rent, that the chill and friendly vibe SF had back then is mostly gone. Not extinct by any means, but not the same. That started in the early 00's when tech sector and it's workers started moving in, and they changed the culture of the city dramatically. By the 2010's it seemed like a different city.

I'm not giving up on SF. I hope everyone gives this city a chances and visits. We'll get through this time and come back stronger.

[Quote] . We'll get through this time and come back stronger.

The question is how and how much worse it needs to get as people are already fed up.

Bay Area residents demanding action after recent rise in carjackings

It's a shit covered shell of what it once was. The only people still trying to make it happen are real estate owners. Gross.

R477 Stayed on Belvedere Street up by Sutro tower, one time I stayed at the Four Seasons. Yes I walked by a homeless man sleeping on the sidewalk outside the Wells Fargo building in 2003. It was somewhat unusual at noon. Yes there were homeless, more than where I was from in the East, and people living in their vans, and yes some areas felt unsafe (at night. more) and a guy tried to get me to give him money who said he was a Vietnam vet, and wouldn't leave me alone. Being from a city, myself, I was able to discern where to go or not go. But it was nothing like my friend who I stayed with a few times describes it now (he no longer lives there on Belvedere Street, moved across the Bay).

[quote] We'll get through this time and come back stronger.

No, we won't. Not as long as we let the barons run everything. The mass corporatization of everything and the widening gap of inequality means we'll see more people on the streets.

I'm not an absolute bleeding heart liberal, and yes, some people on or in the streets are not quite Rhodes scholars or angels. But for a number of layered, complicated reasons.....all going back to big corporations reducing people to spreadsheet assets.......any and all resources for people are being bled dry.

So it will only get worse in SF, and LA, and Denver, and other cities.

[quote] Bay Area residents demanding action after recent rise in carjackings

And they got their answer

𝘼 𝙢𝙖𝙣 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙤𝙢𝙖𝙣 𝙖𝙧𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙘𝙖𝙧𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙘𝙧𝙖𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙫𝙚𝙝𝙞𝙘𝙡𝙚 𝙞𝙣 𝙨𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙖𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙧 𝙛𝙖𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙝𝙖𝙙 𝙘𝙝𝙖𝙧𝙜𝙚𝙨 𝙖𝙜𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙨𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙢 𝙙𝙧𝙤𝙥𝙥𝙚𝙙, 𝙎𝙖𝙣 𝙁𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙘𝙞𝙨𝙘𝙤'𝙨 𝙙𝙞𝙨𝙩𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙩 𝙖𝙩𝙩𝙤𝙧𝙣𝙚𝙮 𝙖𝙣𝙣𝙤𝙪𝙣𝙘𝙚𝙙 𝙤𝙣 𝙁𝙧𝙞𝙙𝙖𝙮 - 𝙙𝙚𝙨𝙥𝙞𝙩𝙚 𝙛𝙤𝙤𝙩𝙖𝙜𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙗𝙧𝙤𝙖𝙙 𝙙𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙜𝙝𝙩 𝙘𝙧𝙖𝙨𝙝 𝙜𝙤𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙫𝙞𝙧𝙖𝙡.

Charges against Kevin Nelson, 36, and Jennifer Bonham, 31, both of San Francisco, were dropped 'pending further investigation and witness availability,' said the office of Brooke Jenkins, the Democrat DA. As of Friday, both were released from custody.

The pair are accused of holding up a motorist in a Lincoln sedan and hitting him with their skateboards in the Castro district of the city, near 19th and Dolores streets, on Saturday, and then robbing him of his car.

The thieves drove off, but crashed one block away on the other side of Dolores Park - plummeting 50 feet down a series of steps and through steep wooded hillsides, taking trees with the car as it flipped and landed on its roof.

At least four people were seen escaping from the car and running off. Other than Nelson and Bonham, no other arrests were made.

In March, Bonham was released from custody following an incident. A condition of her release was that she was not allowed to contact Nelson, reports The San Francisco Standard.

Footage from the aftermath of the crash saw one person say: 'Come on, Kevin. I’m sorry, I love you, come on Kevin please, I’m sorry everybody. Kevin, come on, we’ve gotta go,' reports Mission Local.

Nelson later sought treatment at a local hospital and was left bloodied by the crash, the website reports.

The owner of the car identified himself to police at the scene, and told them what had happened.

Nelson and Bonham were arrested three days after the crash.

But on Friday, the charges were dropped.

R482 (^.^) progressive policies are destroying cities

Is California's soft-on-crime approach emboldening criminals?

The owner of a historic San Francisco luxury department store called out city and state leadership for the area's "unlivable" conditions Sunday.

In a full-page ad published in the San Francisco Chronicle on Sunday, Gump’s CEO John Chachas penned an open letter calling for their "destructive" and "failed public policies" to be abandoned.

^^^

Calls for policies to be abandoned but doesn't offer any viable alternatives..

And then calls for tax breaks for his business.

The open letter isn't as biased as I expected it to be, and I even agree with his assessment of the cause of the problem. But then he screams that something sucks and demands that "they" fix "it"...or else. That this guy graduated from Columbia and Harvard but isn't willing to engage in any practical solutions even though he seems to understand the root causes indicates to me that he's not speaking out in good faith

[quote] The major change is seeing homeless in the neighborhoods west of the city, like the Richmond and the Sunset. Again, you could see homeless people in these neighborhoods, but not as much as now.

The Richmond and the Sunset are part of "the city" of San Francisco. Yes, the Avenues (Richmond & Sunset Districts) have a more suburban / spread-out feel, especially as you get to the outer avenues.

R487 a viable alternative is to leave as many people and businesses have. Perhaps the city's leaders might want to consider a few alternatives.

Do city leaders realize where their salaries and tax revenues come from?

OP you may want to watch this first?

OPs post is from 8/22 something tells me they changed their travel plans

some of the homeless are young hung hot str8s, their assholes are mighty tasty, right there in their tent. crack!

All big citys are cursed with the same problems, Travel agents tell me frisco is targeted out of jealousy from other citys as theyve been a top choice for tourists for decades.

[Quote] , Travel agents tell me frisco is targeted out of jealousy from other citys as theyve been a top choice for tourists for decades.

well, if workers are being told to stay home due to safety concerns will tourists flock there?

Bay Area law enforcement officers were arrested by FBI agents Thursday morning in connection to an 18-month investigation.

[quote] U.S. Attorney Ismail Ramsey and FBI Special Agent in Charge Robert Tripp will hold a news conference at 3:30 p.m. at the federal courthouse in San Francisco to release more details on the raid. KRON4.com will be streaming the news conference live.

[quote] A sweeping 18-month investigation began in early 2022 as a narrow probe into officers who allegedly cheated on college tests to obtain salary raises. FBI agents dug into the cheating scandal and opened a “Pandora’s box” of unethical, and potentially criminal, behavior among officers, a source told KRON4. Federal investigators narrowed in on officers who potentially committed civil rights violations.

[quote] When the FBI seized Antioch police officers’ professional and private cellphones, agents found chains of text messages exchanged between as many as 45 Antioch officers. The texts contained racial slurs and described violence officers inflicted against suspects, court records show. One officer, who played soccer professionally before joining APD, bragged about how hard he kicked a young Black man in the head, court records containing the text messages show.

[quote] The officer wrote in one text, “He got his a** whooped in the back yard and I field goal kicked his head. I tried to knock him unconscious.”

NYC Kicks Off Plan to Rezone Midtown, Turn Offices Into Housing

[quote] New York City is rolling out a plan to convert vacant offices into as many as 20,000 new housing units by creating a multi-agency group to help developers cut through red tape and rezoning a section of Manhattan known as Midtown South.

[quote] The moves come after Mayor Eric Adams and Governor Kathy Hochul were rebuffed by fellow Democratic lawmakers in Albany earlier this year in the their quest for an ambitious program to address the state’s housing shortage. Much of Adams’s plan will still need state approval.

[quote] “We could not just sit back and just lick our wounds,” Adams said at a news briefing on Thursday. “We will roll out what we can do here in the city.”

[quote] New York, Boston, San Francisco and other major US cities are struggling with the dual challenges of what do with office buildings decimated by the shift to remote work and an affordable housing crisis that’s driving up rents. Converting offices to housing is complicated and expensive, so city officials are looking at tax breaks, speeding up approvals and other incentives to facilitate the process.

[quote] Under New York City’s plan, parts of which were announced previously, the city would make office buildings built before 1990 eligible for conversion to housing, an update from the existing cutoffs of 1961 and 1977, depending on the area. The proposal would cover an additional 136 million square feet, roughly the same amount of office space as in the entire city of Philadelphia, officials said.

[...]

[quote] The plan for Midtown South, an area below Times Square, envisions a live-work mixed-use neighborhood between 23rd Street and 40th Street, bounded by Fifth Avenue and Eighth Avenue. Residential building, including affordable housing, would be allowed in four areas that were zoned for manufacturing 50 years ago.

[quote] Mayor London Breed speaks during a rally held outside the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to demand the court overturn and injunction prohibiting the city from sweeping homeless encampments

"It is not humane to let people live on our streets...We have seen people in really awful conditions and we are not standing for it anymore."

r31, try driving a stick shift in the rain on Sutter. Once I had to park uphill backwards on it-I think it took 10 years off my life.

For living, I would do it in the Bay Area (I lived in Berkeley and North Oakland)- easier to get around, gorgeous neighborhoods, great restaurants. Although I was aghast of the gentrification of 4th Street Berkeley.

SFPD:

[quote] “We are going to use bait cars” in order to catch car burglars. Chief will not go into specifics, but officers are being redeployed to bring down rate of smash & grabs.

[quote] SFPD Chief Scott on the bait car plan as a deterrent and District Attorney Jenkins on consequences:

When you go, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.

San Francisco needs an image make over

[quote] [R31], try driving a stick shift in the rain on Sutter. Once I had to park uphill backwards on it-I think it took 10 years off my life.

I drove on Van Ness in stop-and-go traffic. I was driving a very old, borrowed, Isuzu Trooper - stick shift. That was no ordinary stick shift. Stressful! I was using the hand brake to help my situation, but it was still stressful. I kept rolling backwards (after stopping and then trying to go / start, again, going uphill).

Its happening in every large city. Trust me.

(^.^) and it happens in a matter of minutes.

seems like there's no time between crimes

Car break-ins were always a problem in SF. When I lived there, a friend let me use her car while she was on a trip. I actually didn't really want to use her car, but I said OK. It got broken into twice in maybe 4 or 5 days.

Moved away from SF and came back as a tourist. Stayed with friends in the Mission. One friend's car got broken into two nights in a row.

[quote] Although some retail and law enforcement lobbyists cite eye-popping figures, there is reason to doubt the problem is anywhere near as large or widespread as they say. The best estimates available put losses at around 7 cents per $100 of sales on average.

[...]

[quote] Broader crime statistics paint a picture of a decreasing problem, not one on the rise. National crime statistics from the FBI show shoplifting decreasing steadily every year from 2015 through 2020, the most recent data available. Larceny — the taking of property without using force or breaking in — declined 16% between 2010 and 2019, then dipped even lower in 2020, the data indicate.

[...]

[quote] In one recent case, a West Virginia woman won nearly $17 million in damages from Walmart after she was injured when a man being pursued for shoplifting stumbled into her, on the basis that Walmart escalated the situation. “Most companies realized from a financial standpoint it’s just not worth it. A couple big lawsuits take away anything you gain by making all those apprehensions,” he said.

[quote] Sometimes hiring staff to stop shoplifters in the first place doesn’t make financial sense, security consultant Chris McGoey said. “To hire and train a loss prevention department, especially a competent one, costs money,” McGoey said. Some retailers have found that the cost of the merchandise recovered by security staff was lower than the cost of employing them. “It’s almost cheaper to do nothing and just take the loss” on that basis, McGoey said, “but then you pile liability on top, it’s a no-brainer.”

[quote] The spectacular nature of the recent smash-and-grab robberies might change that calculus for retailers, McGoey said, and lead to beefed-up security staffing and putting more products behind lock and key. But he doubts it.

R509 but no matter what the stats say people and businesses are leaving and taking tax revenue with them.

LOL R488 I meant "in the west part of the city".

Making a living has become more difficult and dangerous in many urban areas

1 step forward . . .

r509 stats are 4 years old at the newest. Covid and BLM changed everything.

I just left SF after a year. Sure, I had TONS of sex but lots of gaslighting lovebombing and other assorted bad behaviors. Why are all these men over 50 insisting on doing meth? Also all the guys that exclaim they are in open relationships are lying, theyre cheating.

Anyway, I picked the wrong city to find a boyfriend.

I left my retail in San Francisco.

San Francisco’s downtown properties were some of the most valuable in the country. Buyers loaded up on debt to get a piece of the booming city. Now vacancies are approaching twice the national rate, according to CBRE Econometric Advisors. Owners are on the hook for nearly $12 billion of office bonds, according to S&P Global.-Wall Street Journal

This will sound so stupid. Every time I'm in SF I have a hard time enjoying the city. It's overdue for a big EQ and I can't wait to get out of town alive.

[Quote]This will sound so stupid

Not really R517 When I visited my friends who lived there in the 90s that thought crossed my mind.

R11 I’m not sure what the other poster meant by European, but a friend who lived there said it felt Mediterranean

It's neither European nor Mediterranean; it's very American.

There was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch.

On nights like that every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husbands' necks. Anything can happen. You can even get a full glass of beer at a cocktail lounge.

[Quote]People with limited imaginations and small lives will always enjoy the schadenfreude of the big city horror stories du jour because it justifies decades spent doing nothing outside of their meager comfort zones.

Do you have to live in SF in order to do something outside of your comfort zone?