Let's discuss Vivian's FABULOUS 1954 Emmy dress

Lol. I'm assuming she was purposely dressing as her character, Ethel.

I have wondered when seeing that pic why VV didn't go with something sexier or flashy, she was known to dislike the Ethel wardrobe but then she went to the Emmys in a dress you could see Ethel wearing.

Maybe her hostess pants were at the cleaners r2

Everybody dressed like that in 1954. It was haute couture.

Lucy wore a regular dress to the ceremony as well, but it was still much nicer.

It looks like a fancy house dress.

Like lipstick on a pig.

If anybody knows about a big, Bill, it's tu!

Was the ceremony during an ILL taping day?

Was she called away from dishes in the sink?

I LOVE it.

[quote]Like lipstick on a pig.

Fray-Ed!!

(slaps him)

The Emmys weren't nationally broadcast until the following year, so attending the ceremony during those early years was like attending a company banquet. And, this particular year, the ceremony was held on February 11, a Thursday. Vivian must've arrived from the ILL set with what she had on.

I looked AMAZING

Joke's on you. I got so much Desi dick that night before going home and getting roughed up by the hubby. The only reason I died was because I lived my wild life until I had had sufficient!

You can’t see it from the photo, but it IS backless.

Is it assless?

[quote]I got so much Desi dick that night

Lies.

She's also wearing the same watch that Ethel wore for basically the entire series.

Peter Pan collars signified that the wearer wasn't a "tramp."

It looks somewhat nicer and not so Ethel-ish in color.

Like June Allyson those Peter Pan collars might have signified you weren't a tramp but in Hollywood everyone knew you were really a wildcat fucking every straight actor you worked with.

Well I didn't beat her for nothing r22!

It was Phil Ober’s dress.

I think she looks really good in these photos. I know OP is just saying shit to get responses, but in general I think Vivian gets shrugged off as frumpy, when she's actually quite cute.

R20, Sure. Whatever you say.

r25 = Mary Wickes

R27 = forgot where he put his teeth this morning

Sondheim should have written a role for our Viv in Follies.

Sure, she could have put over Broadway Baby or Rain on the Roof, but someone of her experience needed a bigger role. Unfortunately, she’s not quite a Sally, Phyllis or Carlotta.

She looked more glamorous at this Emmy ceremony. This must have been the last year she was nominated because she has her hair longer and styled in the CT episode way.

With Ida Lupino and Ann B Davis

[quote]It was Phil Ober’s dress.

Are you sure it wasn't J. Edgar Hoover's?

It's OK, but it's no Don Loper original.

r32=Mrs. Richard "Bowser" Carlson

J. Edgar Hoover couldn’t get his backfat into a dress with a Peter Pan collar.

She wore that dress in the dreadful Mertz and Kutrz episode, which was filmed several months later

^^^ Kurtz

[quote]J. Edgar Hoover couldn’t get his backfat into a dress with a Peter Pan collar.

Don't I know, honey! We spent hours trying to squeeze him in.

R30- Ann B Davis looks SO Lesbian in that photo.

Vivian Vance was so slim and attractive in this ca. 1944 photo.

A black eye would've completed the ensemble.

She looks great in r39

That was just before her nervous breakdown

R41- Women's fashions in the 1940's looked so much better than the short poodle hair cuts and longer and wider matronly dresses of the 1950's.

She IS the Vivienne.

I agree r42

I also agree R42.

Geez, if I had wandered onto DL accidentally via this thread, I'd never have guessed it was a gay board.

I wonder if Lucille and Desi and Phil and Viv had a foursome after the ceremony

R42 I agree about the hairstyle but those larger dresses could look great, but just like with the hoop skirts of 100 years prior, they look best if one has a very small waist and a lot of crinoline, which is why Lucy looks so good during the ILL years. She didn't get to play Scarlett in GWTW but she got to be immortalized in the modern version of the look.

R35 has quite the eagle eye. They DO look like they came right from the ILL set!

Viv was all over Desi in that episode too r49

Did Vivian really show up on set with black eyes, or is that just DL lore?

R48- Lucy's hair on ILL was unusual looking for the time and it suited her well. Her outfits on the show looked good too especially for the 1950's.

[quote]...she was known to dislike the Ethel wardrobe but then she went to the Emmys in a dress you could see Ethel wearing.

Well, the EMMYs were relatively new. This must have been before they started printing, "This is fancy, you have to get really dressed up" on the invitations.

She should have shown a little cleavage.

R53 I get that, but as someone who always dresses a little bit above what is expected I don't understand it.

This is a good start but we need to have a lot my threads about Vivian Vance -one of datalounge's favorite underdogs.

Agreed, r56. And I like to imagine that while she was accepting her Emmy she was thinking: I bet a lot of queens are being born right now who will love and honor me in the future.

I love that in r39. I bet she could've been a really fun wisecracking dame, too.

You can see Vivian and William conversing as she's getting up from the table.

According to an awards show book I have, he supposedly told her "it only goes to show that the whole thing is rigged".

You can see her mouthing off back at him. I wonder what she said if that's what he actually said?

And why was Desi never nominated? Racism?

I prefer her dress to the ones that are being worn to the modern Emmys

R60 I often wonder after watching award shows, if some women are just such bitches that their stylists sabotage them and even their husbands don't say anything. Also, do people in Hollywood not own mirrors?

Careful, R61, her mother is Miss Ross. She'll stick a shiv in you.

R62 based on some of her outfits, I don't think her stylist is too fond of her either.

Or she was taking a chance, and actually thinking, Mom got to be crazy in the 60s and 70s r63. But honey, different time, and frankly, different level and context.

She looks like she just got off a shift at Woolworth’s.

R64 Yeah, one major difference is "mom" was one of the most famous women in the world, so she could do whatever she wanted. Traci has done two successful sitcoms. Look I like her, I think she is a great actress and I think she looks good, but her clothing choices are at times vomit inducing.

Datalounge people - Please make some comments about this photo.

R67 I can see why Frawley was hurt by her remarks about him being too old to play her husband. Her own husband didn't look like a teeny bopper himself.

Viv had planned to wear a backless gown to the event, but I warned her against wearing that, since it would've shown up the bruises she sustained on her back when she accidentally fell off a ladder the day before. Viv was quite accident prone, you know. Quite the klutz.

Busted. Bet the maid was NOT happy when she realized Vivi had ston her uniform

STOLEN

William Frawley, Lucille Ball, Vivian Vance visiting a sick boy in a hospital in NYC ca. 1955. Ethel's hair is longer and Lucy looks a bit older than she usually looked on the show at that time. She looks a bit upset too and of course the poor sickly little boy.

Lucille Ball MADE her wear that dress. It was written in her contract.

I always figured Bill was a bottom r67

r54 = Mary Wickes

I couldn't figure out what r59 was talking about since the video isn't linked here, but I found a copy on Facebook, and she doesn't look like she's mouthing off at all. Frawley might be, he seems a little animated, but she's smiling.

She mouths to Frawley, "Don't get your breeches in a bunch, Grandpa."

Here is Phil Ober fantasizing about a lesbian encounter between Vivian and Lucille.

Ah the photo at r78! Desi had just whispered to me, "It looks like Vivian is a smash hit." Those two words were enough to take me to my happy place and put a huge smile on my face.

Is that what passed for formal attire at the time? It's much better in color, but that's not saying much.

Phil Ober never fantasized about women doing anything. He was a Hollywood closet case.

Doubtful, r81

R38: When didn't she look like a lesbian? She clearly liked Ida's embrace, although it probably says more about the usually drunk Ida than Ann.

Phil Ober was married with a child when he met Vivian; cheated on her with one of her best friends; had a reputation as a womanizer around Desilu; and married a woman after their divorce.

He hardly sounds gay.

If he were gay, r81, he would have NEVER let Vivian wear that dress.

Viv would've been amazing in The Stone Pillow.

Phil Ober at his assholish best in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY.

He was also fitting as a maniacal killer in The Secret Fury r87

Here's what Audrey wore that year.

Everyone did NOT dress like that.

Here's Joan the year prior.

r89 is lovely

That dress had Billy Hackett's cum stains all over it. I hope she had it dry cleaned before the ceremony.

R89 R90 That was the Oscars, they were no where near comparable at the time.

R80 What makes it stand out is that while the women like Viv and Lucy wore nice day type dresses the men are wearing tuxes.

Here is a pic from the 1953 ceremony. Vivian is out of the frame and I don't know what she wrote that year.

^^^ wore

I guess it's the little bit of beading on Viv and Lucy's outfits that gives them a dressier look. But it's odd that neither are showing bare shoulders or even a little decolletage as the men are all in tuxes.

As per DL logic: was there ANY man in Old Hollywood who WASN'T closeted?

R96 It is like the men are all dressed for a formal event, while the women are dressed for date night.

I wonder why Vivian never made any movies in the 1950s, with the exception of small parts in The Secret Fury (1950) and The Blue Veil (1951). She stated in interviews that she moved to California to work in film, and intended to act in a couple of pictures when ILL was on hiatus for Desi Jr's birth, but that never happened.

R99 it does seem strange because the four of them were the most famous people in America at the time. She could've at least played best friend roles to Doris Day, or something.

Yes, especially because she so resented playing Ethel Mertz

R89 Audrey had the studios purchase Givenchy for her. She was an outlier among Hollywood stars in favouring French haute couture.

That's what Audrey wore to the Oscars. I don't believe she ever attended the Emmys.

Can you imagine Billy Porter wearing Viv's dress?

R104 no, but I could see Harry Styles wearing it.

Vivian is adorable in her acceptance speech.

What is the evidence that Phil Ober was closeted???

Audrey who? Audrey Meadows?

R98, but the men are all wearing black-tie tuxedos, which was absolutely not formal attire back then. Black-tie was a step above business suits and worn for semi-formal functions or the cocktail hour. White-tie and tail coats were worn for important formal events.

[quote]White-tie and tail coats were worn for important formal events.

Tell me about it.

Dinah Shore looked great (in 1958)

Now, Dinah's dress looks entirely appropriate for the Emmys and I bet she looked gorgeous with her hot hunky husband George in his handsome tux (not white tie which would be too formal for the Emmys , if not the Oscars).

The makeup people did an incredible job on Lucille Ball for ILL. You could almost believe Lucy Ricardo was early 30s. However, she looks every day her early/mid-40s in those Emmy pics.

We've become so used to designers and stylists dressing celebrities for red carpet award appearances that we forget that, prior to the 1990s, almost everyone wore whatever was hanging in their closet or what they bought off the rack.

r113 eventually, however, Chesterfields and booze won that battle.

Poor Hal King. Between Lucille's aging, Desi's drinking, and Vivian's bruising, he really had his work cut out for him.

And was probably underpaid, too.

During WWII actresses were encouraged to dress down for the Oscars, hence Ingrid's modest day dress. Actually, I wish we could get back to that dignified notion and aesthetic as it's more revealing to see what stars wear when not dressed by all the same stylists.

[quote]During WWII actresses were encouraged to dress down for the Oscars

Interesting, r117. I didn't know that.

Yes, just look up photos of the other WWII winners Joan Fontaine. Ginger Rogers, Greer Garson, Jennifer Jones, they're all wearing day dresses, all very modestly covered like nuns.

R113, if you look closely you can see lines on Lucy’s face around the mouth in many episodes. And of course in many episodes you hear her voice changing and the strain on her voice.

[quote]Vivian's bruising

She really should have learned to be less accident prone.

To Lucy's credit, she never attempted to look too glamorous or youthful on ILL. Her wardrobe, hair and even makeup (for primitive b&w tv) always looked appropriate to a middle aged wife and mother. And she was certainly aware that her public knew her from RKO and MGM films from the 30s and 40; she wasn't trying to fool anyone.

[quote] During WWII actresses were encouraged to dress down for the Oscars

I guess Greer Garson didn't get the message.

Was it Greer Garson that gave a 45 minute acceptance speech?

[quote]The Guinness Book of World Records credits her with the longest Oscar acceptance speech, at five minutes and 30 seconds, after which the Academy Awards instituted a time limit.

You can kind of see Vivian on the right in this shot from the 1953 Emmys -- at least enough to see she's wearing a backless dress.

It's a shame she was wearing such an awful dress the one year she won. She looked better at all the other years' ceremonies.

I said this earlier - We need a LOT more threads about our Vivian Vance.

We need more threads about horse-hung Phil Ober.

I beg your uninformed pardons. That dress was fashioned from expensive silk tafetta.

Apparently R127 does not have sufficient.

Oh honey r130, in real life I NEVER had sufficient.

Only a dress as FABULOUS as this one could warrant 130+ replies.

R117, what was Bette's excuse?

The Emmys were not considered top-notch awards, because it was only television.

I remember. The photo shows Ed Sullivan in a double-breasted tux, which is worse.

R133 Wasn't it that she didn't think she would win so they caught her on the way to the train station?

She didn't make the same mistake twice, r133.

When we got home that night, I helpfully took Viv's Emmy and hid it upstairs where she couldn't see it. I recognized how deeply she felt plagued by self-doubt: viewing an award she knew (and I knew) she didn't deserve would only exacerbate her mental problems and catapult her into the throes of another nervous breakdown. I always looked out for her.

She was really quite certifiable, you know.

No, r135, that was Claudette Colbert, who thought she wouldn't win for It Happened One Night, and had to be retrieved from the LA train station to accept her Oscar in 1934.

About Bette's dress...

I have sufficient.

They both look better here.

(Apparently, Vivian only owned one watch.)

Lucy was *pissed* that Vivian won an Emmy for the show before she did. Desi finally had to order her to stop being so cold to Viv after her win.

[quote]Lucy was *pissed* that Vivian won an Emmy for the show before she did

Justified.

R142 Lucy had already won the year before in the Best Comedienne category.

I stand embarrassed and corrected, r144.

And this thread has almost 150 responses so far. It's amazing the type of threads that gain traction on this site. SMH

r146 = Bea Benaderet

[quote]And this thread has almost 150 responses so far.

Indeed.

Told you my dress was FABULOUS!

Lol r46!!

Was Viv ever nominated for Emmys for her later work on The Lucy Show (or whatever the hell it was called)? Now that was some heavy towing.

R150, Viv's four Emmy nominations were all for ILL.

Viv should have worn this to the Emmys.

The dress is nice but her wristwatch is fabulous!

R152, I think this one would've been a showstopper.

r154 Something off the rack from GIMBEL'S? Why I never in all my life ...

r153 I wonder the story behind that watch. She wore it constantly, both on the show and irl.

In the1950s wristwatches were still made to last. And they were beautifully designed by real craftsmen and women, exquisite pieces of jewelry. There'd be no reason to replace them every few years as we usually do now, if anyone even wears a watch now. Viv's watch is beautiful, maybe it was even a family keepsake.

Vivian got a lot of mileage out of the dress at r141 (although I don't think she ever wore it on the show):

And:

I think this is the same dress too:

OMG, in r160’s photo, William Frawley has two glasses of Scotch lined up.

Can you blame him, r161? Imagine dealing with Vivian, day in, day out.

In other photos, the dress looks like a satin material and there's a fancy jeweled brocade on the collar and sleeves.

Desi and Viv had such chummy chemistry. He really looks like he flat out adores her in some of these photos. It is sweet.

What can I say? I knew my way around a huge dick, r164

Well, it's better than the dress she originally wanted to wear

When Viv was discovered by Desi she was performing at La Jolla Playhouse in a production of The Voice of the Turtle. This was a role she had originally played in the national tour of the show in the mid-1940s, where she notoriously blanked on her lines and experienced a nervous breakdown onstage and then didn't act again for several years because of stage fright and a lack of confidence. She was replaced on that tour by a young unknown Patricia Neal.

Supposedly, Phil Ober was responsible for encouraging her to get her nerve back and get back onstage. So, he did something right. Viv spoke about all this in later years and even wrote an article about her nervous breakdown and continued therapy for McCall's Magazine, a pretty nervy and courageous thing for any actor to do in the 1950s.

Viv would also tell a funny anecdote about how she and Phil got together with Lucy and Desi at the Arnaz home to watch the debut episode of ILL. They all thought it was a disaster except for Phil, who apparently couldn't stop laughing and told them they had a huge hit on their hands. Maybe everyone reading this already knows about all of it. It's certainly been discussed in many VV threads over the years.

r167 I think their marriage worked relatively well in the 1940s, because their roles were clearly defined. Phil was the breadwinner; Vivian was subservient. In a sense, Vivian's nervous breakdown worked out well for him, because she became more or less totally dependent on him. She said that for nearly two years, she would rarely leave their apartment or hotel room without him. I think most people who crave interpersonal dominance end up feeling guilt or shame about the means they have to employ to get it.

"I Love Lucy" completely shattered that balance. Suddenly, Vivian enjoyed financial, social, and professional independence. Phil had to double down to maintain his dominance. He monitored everything she did and tried to sabotage her friendships. People at Desilu said Vivian would usually retreat to her dressing room and, unlike Lucille, wasn't really social on set. I wonder if that was in part to avoid fights with Phil.

Lucille strongly disliked Phil from the beginning; something about him raised a red flag.

In the McCall's article, she talks about Phil as her savior vis-à-vis her mental health. I found that odd until I remembered she was still married to him when she wrote that: it's probably how she viewed him at the time. But he was also beating her up regularly, and she was trying to save the marriage, so her perspective seems a bit skewed.

Years later, Vivian claimed that she wanted out of I Love Lucy because her mental health was suffering (in part due to Phil's jealousy and abuse); Phil, however, refused to let her quit because he'd grown accustomed to the $$$. He wasn't exactly a loving husband, despite how he may have presented himself.

Her FABULOUS Emmy dress also made an appearance in an Hollywood episode.

R163 I don't think the dress is satin. Earlier I asserted it was tafetta, but upon closer inspection think it is a silk faille with very fine ribs. The buttons look satiny though, in the same shade. The collar is not brocade, but jeweled on netting and placed on the same fabric; the cuff jewels look directly placed on the fabric, but the B&W photo could be deceptive. A color pic of this fancy dress would better clear up the controversy.

r171 see r21

Someone should caption r170

I looked FABULOUS in everything I wore, but red really suited me.

It's amazing that Lucille won TWO Emmys for The Lucy Show -- and those came in the worsening, later years.

R175 I think they were the Emmy voters’ equivalent of mercy fucks.

R175 She had guest stars on every week, the voters were probably either guest stars or hoped to be guest stars. Also in '67 her competition was Elizabeth Montgomery and Agnes Moorehead both for Bewitched and Marlo Thomas for That Girl. I'm sure Montgomery and Moorehead split votes and Marlo was still new, so Lucy won by default. Also, they all aired on ABC and there was still prejudice in the industry against ABC. But, in '68 she seems to have won it outright, because you had Montogomery and Thomas, again, plus Barbara Feldon for Get Smart and Paula Prentiss for He & She. Other than Prentiss, because I've never seen the show, I'd have been happy with Lucy or any of the other three winning,

I still can't believe Elizabeth Montgomery never won an Emmy for Bewitched.

Thanks for the context, r177

The FABULOUS Emmy dress made another appearance in Season 5

Even more FABULOUS at full length!

I just realized this magnificent gown also made an appearance in the Van Johnson episode (with a different belt). The dress was versatile to boot!

Is r142 true?

I do find it funny ... that she wore an Ethel dress to access her Emmy, yet was worried about being typecast as Ethel.

^^^ accept

R183 It’s possible she was told what to wear by Desilu and it was in her contract. Lucille was going to be there, so it’s likely there was no way Vivian would be allowed to outdress Lucille.

In my defense, I was planning to wear a backless gown until I had a little "accident" the night before.

They weren’t paying me enough to design award show gowns.

You keep up that attitude and I'm gonna send in Desi to have a "talk" with you r187

Personally, I was always appreciated how Lucy and Ethel repeated outfits throughout the run of ILL. It helped to make then seem more like the ordinary middle-class wives they were playing.

As Ethel, Vivian wore some far more flattering dresses, even during Season 1:

She also went backless at the 1953 Emmys (she's on the right, barely in the frame):

She had a lovely bustline and a winning smile.

And FABULOUS taste in gowns, r192

Who beat Vivian the years she lost?

Lucille couldn't always be trusted at awards ceremonies.

Vivian also wore her 1957 Emmy dress on the show (the Barbara Eden episode), but it's not as fabulous as the 1954 dress

Ida Lupino and Ann B Davis?

In my day, award ceremony attendees were slapped only AFTER they got home

Still FABULOUS in 2023!

Bumping for the 2024 Emmys -- still the best Emmy dress ever.

Her dress looks like a house coat! Perhaps she didn't expect to be there.

It's a shame she only won one Emmy.

I guess she wasn’t supposed to look better than Lucille in real life either.

At least she had a better personality.

Well excuse me for buying off the rack!