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Rave review in the NYTimes for Mary Rodgers's memoir SHY

Let’s start with a full disclosure: I’m a sucker for Broadway — one of those theater fans who will see five different productions of the same show, who genuflect before cast albums from the ’50s, who inhale theater gossip as if it really mattered. I’m also a sucker for books about Broadway, books as different from one another as Moss Hart’s “Act One,” William Goldman’s “The Season” and Jack Viertel’s “The Secret Life of the American Musical.” But I’ve never read one more entertaining (and more revealing) than Mary Rodgers’s “Shy.” Her voice careens between intimate, sardonic, confessional, comic. The book is pure pleasure — except when it’s jaw-droppingly shocking.

Written in collaboration with the New York Times theater critic Jesse Green, who completed it after Rodgers’s death at 83 in 2014, “Shy” relates the life story of a successful songwriter-scriptwriter-television producer-children’s book writer. And also the mother of six, the wife of two, an occasional adulterer, a credulous participant in an earnest trial marriage to Stephen Sondheim (!) — and the daughter of two of the most vividly (if scarily) rendered parents I’ve ever encountered.

“Daddy” is the first word in the book, and it provokes the first of Green’s many illuminating footnotes, which enrich the pages of “Shy” like butter on a steak. This one grasps Richard Rodgers in four words: “composer, womanizer, alcoholic, genius.” The composer part we all know, and if your tastes run in the direction of “Oklahoma!,” “South Pacific,” “Carousel,” et many al., the genius as well. As for the other two elements, the womanizing was unstoppable, racing through chorus girls, Eva Gabor, apparently Diahann Carroll and definitely the original Tuptim in “The King and I” — according to Mary, “the whitest Burmese slave princess ever.” The drinking was equally prodigious. Dick (as he was known, and will be known here to keep the various Rodgerses straight) hid vodka bottles in toilet tanks — a clever ploy for an aging man whose bladder wasn’t likely as robust as it once had been. Lunches were lubricated with a 50-50 concoction of Dubonnet and gin. Evenings heralded a continuous parade of Scotch-and-sodas. A depressive who once spent three months in a psychiatric hospital, he was also remote and inscrutable, with a capacity for cruelty. Mary writes, “He hated having his time wasted with intangible things like emotions.”

Compared with Dorothy Rodgers, though, Dick (whom Mary eventually forgives and understands) could have been one of the Care Bears. But “Mummy” (given Dorothy’s desiccated rigidity, it’s a word that can be read as both a name and a noun) was vastly self-centered and brutally critical. Mary had so much to work with you understand why one chapter is called “I Dismember Mama.” She was a Demerol addict, a melodramatic hypochondriac, a neat freak (and, only somewhat incidentally, the inventor of the Johnny Mop). “Mummy’s idea of a daughter,” Mary writes, “was a chambermaid crossed with a lapdog; Daddy’s, Clara Schumann as a chorus girl.” In 1964 Dorothy published “My Favorite Things,” a high-end homemaker’s guide that told readers, as summarized by Green, “how to decorate their apartments and serve aspic.” Conveniently, he adds, “her marriage was just as cold and gelatinous.”

(CONT.)

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by Anonymousreply 591August 26, 2023 9:45 PM

(cont.) Dick and Dorothy are at least implicitly present throughout “Shy,” and Mary’s takes on them are alternately horrific and hilarious (she liked Dick’s earlier work, but “later, with all those goddamn praying larks and uplifting hymns for contralto ladies, I sometimes hated what he got up to”). But it’s the showbiz world they all lived in that lifts the book into the pantheon of Broadway narratives.

When I’m preparing to review a book, I highlight particularly strong material and scribble the relevant page numbers on the endpapers. For the first 17 pages of “Shy,” my list has 13 entries — and now, looking back, I see there’s also some pretty delicious stuff on 4, 7, 15 and 16. And even though my pencil was fairly inactive in the chapters about her two marriages (the second one happy, the first disturbingly not), I never bogged down. How could I resist a voice so candid, so sharp? You’re not even 10 pages into the book when she introduces the man who wrote the books for both “West Side Story” and “Gypsy” and directed “La Cage aux Folles” as “Arthur Laurents, the little shit.” (Later in the book, she goes deep: “Talent excuses almost anything but Arthur Laurents.”)

About Hal Prince, with whom she had an early affair: “Hal was born clasping a list of people he wanted to meet.” Leonard Bernstein, with whom she collaborated on his Young People’s Concerts for more than a decade: “It was hard not to pay attention to Lenny, who made sure that was always the case by always being fascinating.” Twenty-one-year-old Barbra Streisand, whom Mary first encounters backstage at a cabaret: “this gawky woman gobbling a peach, her hair still braided up like a challah.” Improbably, Bob Keeshan, a.k.a. Captain Kangaroo, for whom she wrote lyrics when she was just starting out: “a fat guy in a bowl haircut who named himself for a marsupial and looked like a little child molester.” And the 22-year-old Woody Allen, with whom she overlapped at a summer stock theater: He was “already the inventive weirdo he would become famous as a decade later,” spending much of the summer on the porch practicing his clarinet or inside (with his first wife, Harlene) “practicing sex, possibly from a manual. He was doing better, it seemed, with the clarinet.”

Mary has choice things to say about Bing Crosby, Truman Capote, Judy Holliday, Elaine Stritch, George Abbott (everyone who worked in the theater in the 20th century has George Abbott stories, but none quite so chilling as Mary’s). Even Roy Rogers and Dale Evans show up in this book. (She wrote songs for them, as she did for “Lassie” and “Rin Tin Tin” — the shows, she points out, not the dogs.) Similar work for the Bil Baird Marionettes enabled her to learn how to write for “certain wooden humans.”

But arching over the cast of interesting thousands who populated her world and this book, the central figure in her life, apart from her parents, was Sondheim. They met when barely teenagers; Mary was immediately, and permanently, smitten. They remained close for seven decades, relishing and relying on each other to such a degree that the almost-marriage seemed almost logical. The idea, which arose while they were still in their late 20s, was a one-year experiment (“I know what you are saying,” she tells the reader. “Mary, don’t!”). His homosexuality was a given, so although they often slept in the same bed, they never touched each other, both of them “frozen with fear. We just lay there. We didn’t discuss anything; we didn’t do anything.” Eventually, confusion, resentment and reality combined to declare it a mistrial, but it didn’t disrupt an abiding closeness that lasted until Mary’s death. “Let’s say it plainly,” Mary concludes. Sondheim “was the love of my life.” (cont.)

by Anonymousreply 1August 6, 2022 1:48 AM

(cont.) Chronology is imperfect when a life like Mary’s is rendered by a mind like Mary’s; one of the book’s alternative titles, Green tells us, was “Where Was I?” She jumps back and forth between her many decades, digression dangling from an anecdote, in turn hanging from an aside. Sometimes, you’re left in slightly irritating (if amusing) suspense: About one family member, “I have nothing good to say — and I will say it later.” Would I have preferred a more straightforward narration? Not a chance, for it could have deadened her invigorating candor (which provoked another possible title: “What Do You Really Think?”).

Mary’s greatest theatrical success was “Once Upon a Mattress,” her musicalization (directed by Abbott) of “The Princess and the Pea,” which launched her Broadway career in 1959 (not to mention that of its relatively unknown star, Carol Burnett). The story line certainly fit her own life: The princess, she writes, “has to outwit a vain and icy queen to get what she wants and live happily ever after.” For Mary, the outwitting paid off. More than 50 years after its original run, her “Mattress” royalties still exceeded $100,000 a year. (If that seems impressive, consider this: Even into the 21st century, the Rodgers and Hammerstein families were each collecting $7 million a year.) As Mary used to say to friends as she reached for the check in a restaurant, “When your father writes ‘Oklahoma!’ you can pay for dinner.” Green notes it was a line she used frequently “because it acknowledged the awkwardness of the situation and swiftly walked straight through it.” Pure Mary.

But what is also pure Mary, I became convinced, lies beneath her slashing revelations and dishy anecdotes: an inescapable element of rue, particularly regarding her parents. After one notably acidic snipe at Dorothy, Mary writes, “It was too late to go back — it always is.” And Dick? “It was all about his music; everything loving about him came out in it, and there was no point looking anywhere else. It’s also true I didn’t have any choice — but it was enough.”

Dick and Dorothy are dead, and Mary’s dead as well. Their legacies, though mixed, are intimately entwined. Although I’m still looking for something to like about Dorothy Rodgers, I’ll acknowledge that Richard Rodgers left behind some songs I love. But Mary Rodgers left behind this book, which I love even more.

On the other hand, I never quite found out why she despised Arthur Laurents.

by Anonymousreply 2August 6, 2022 1:49 AM

Nothing that we don't already know.

by Anonymousreply 3August 6, 2022 1:50 AM

[quote]Twenty-one-year-old Barbra Streisand, whom Mary first encounters backstage at a cabaret: “this gawky woman gobbling a peach, her hair still braided up like a challah.” Improbably, Bob Keeshan, a.k.a. Captain Kangaroo, for whom she wrote lyrics when she was just starting out: “a fat guy in a bowl haircut who named himself for a marsupial and looked like a little child molester.”

Top of my library list just for this cuntery.

by Anonymousreply 4August 6, 2022 1:50 AM

r3 = Dorothy Rodgers, still cunting and criticizing from beyond the grave

by Anonymousreply 5August 6, 2022 1:51 AM

But why did she hate Arthur Laurents so much?

by Anonymousreply 6August 6, 2022 1:57 AM

Everyone hated Arthur Laurents. Read his memoir and you'll see why. He was a cantankerous egomaniac.

by Anonymousreply 7August 6, 2022 2:03 AM

I would imagine that Laurents was jealous and tried to warn Sondheim away from Mary as not only a potential lover but even as a friend. Laurents, of course, knew that Sondheim was gay and thought he was wasting his time with Mary. He probably didn't think much of Mary's songwriting talents either, of which she was probably aware.

Just my guesses.

by Anonymousreply 8August 6, 2022 2:12 AM

I hope it gets into the "Freaky Friday" series of books -- the first one was great, the second okay, the third terrible. Much like the "Harriet the Spy" trilogy.

by Anonymousreply 9August 6, 2022 2:24 AM

I love these kind of "front row seat to everything and everyone" kind of autobiographies. I used to dream of being friends with and personally knowing all the creative people I'd read about in the papers. I'll probably read this.

by Anonymousreply 10August 6, 2022 2:45 AM

I've ordered it already. I would have bought it just for someone funny writing about what it was like being the daughter of Dorothy Rodgers, the iciest and nastiest society bitch of the mid 20th century. The fact that it's got all the material about show biz is just icing on the cake.

by Anonymousreply 11August 6, 2022 3:07 AM

Hi Jesse.

by Anonymousreply 12August 6, 2022 3:13 AM

[quote]But why did she hate Arthur Laurents so much?

EVERYONE hated Arthur Laurents. I like him because 1) I didn't have to know him in real life 2) He dished, a lot

All of you Streisand lovers - grow up

by Anonymousreply 13August 6, 2022 3:14 AM

R8 you have a big imagination.

by Anonymousreply 14August 6, 2022 3:15 AM

I didn't remember she wrote music for Judy Holiday vehicle HOT SPOT / lyrics by Martin Charnin

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by Anonymousreply 15August 6, 2022 3:16 AM

Why didn't she kill herself like Scott Newman did? *

* That's the excuse the DL used claiming Scott couldn't live up to his father...Mary Rodgers couldn't live up to her father either.

by Anonymousreply 16August 6, 2022 3:19 AM

My Favorite Things is a book about homes, decorating them and entertaining in them. About food and how to serve it. About being a hostess, about people, and perhaps above all about the satisfactions of being a woman

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by Anonymousreply 17August 6, 2022 3:48 AM

I hated everyone before they hated me!

by Anonymousreply 18August 6, 2022 4:29 AM

This I will read. Thanks for the heads up. It's almost 500 pages too!

by Anonymousreply 19August 6, 2022 4:34 AM

Thanks, OP!

by Anonymousreply 20August 6, 2022 4:35 AM

And to think she had the nerve to pity my family experiences.

by Anonymousreply 21August 6, 2022 4:50 AM

Dorothy Rodgers taught by-invitation master classes in being a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 22August 6, 2022 9:27 AM

I need a few care about her life or are you just hoping for her dish about others?

by Anonymousreply 23August 6, 2022 12:28 PM

Sorry!!! Do any of you care about her life or are you just hoping for her dish about others?

by Anonymousreply 24August 6, 2022 12:29 PM

Sounds like a lot of poor little rich girl boo hoo hooing.

What’s baffling to me is that the wife of a musical company would get a book deal for a home entertaining manual. Reminds me of when Mrs. Larry David and Mrs. Jerry Seinfeld wanted us to think they knew how to turn on an oven by releasing competing cookbooks.

by Anonymousreply 25August 6, 2022 12:34 PM

Those spouses have [italic] nothing to do [/italic] and are jealous for [italic] attention [/italic]

by Anonymousreply 26August 6, 2022 1:20 PM

Arthur Laurents did have a hot boyfriend in Tom Hatcher.

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by Anonymousreply 27August 6, 2022 5:57 PM

"My Favorite Things" sounds a little like "My Way Of Life" by Joan Crawford. Minus - perhaps - all the self-delusion.

by Anonymousreply 28August 6, 2022 6:27 PM

r15...

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by Anonymousreply 29August 6, 2022 6:43 PM

R25 mistakes "poor little rich girl boo hoo hooing" for an informed bio by a famous woman who was the child of famous people in the same business.

R25 is what we call a stupid cunt, because she has never read a bio of Sojourner Truth or, for that matter, Juan Corona.

Shoo, fly. You're just a stupid cunt.

by Anonymousreply 30August 6, 2022 6:47 PM

R8, Lucille earned her delusion. Who the fuck is Dorothy Rodgers on a grander scale? Why are her centerpiece recommendations taken more seriously than those of women who don’t suck the dick of the “Do Re Mi” composer for a living?

by Anonymousreply 31August 6, 2022 6:54 PM

r27: Yet another Jew with a hot blond shiksa.

by Anonymousreply 32August 6, 2022 6:54 PM

My grandmother used to get McCall's magazine which had an advice column "Of Two Minds" by, yes, Dorothy and Mary Rodgers, where they'd each give an answer to some issue or another. It's where I learned the word "lesbian."

I am so reading this. I also think Mary did okay for herself. "Once Upon a Mattress" and "Freaky Friday" don't seem like much, but they've both endured surprisingly well.

by Anonymousreply 33August 6, 2022 6:55 PM

R32 A gentile guy is call a shagitz -- shiksa is for girls.

by Anonymousreply 34August 6, 2022 7:16 PM

Have at it DL! At popular prices!

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by Anonymousreply 35August 6, 2022 7:29 PM

But did she, Steve and Hal have a three way before breaking into 'Our Time'?

by Anonymousreply 36August 6, 2022 7:37 PM

Mary actually hated Laurents' hot young lover even more than she hated Laurents.

She had a brief affair wit Hal Prince but found him shallow and pushy.

I wonder if Mary writes about what a disaster SJP was as Winnie in that misguided Mattress revival?

by Anonymousreply 37August 6, 2022 9:24 PM

That's a very old picture - Laurents' "hot young lover" wasn't that young

by Anonymousreply 38August 6, 2022 9:41 PM

We all know what a miserable person Laurents was. Was he especially mean to Dick during Waltz? And why did she hate Tom so much? Steve never experimented with her? They never made out? Did they see each other naked? Did Sondheim ever make love to a woman?

When your father writes Oklahoma, South Pacific and The Sound of Music you can probably buy condos for your friends.

by Anonymousreply 39August 6, 2022 10:07 PM

Did Mary Rodgers do anything significant other than Once Upon A Mattress?

by Anonymousreply 40August 6, 2022 11:03 PM

R27, is that Laurents on the right? He was hot too

by Anonymousreply 41August 6, 2022 11:03 PM

[quote]Did Mary Rodgers do anything significant other than Once Upon A Mattress?

Does "The MAD show" count?

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by Anonymousreply 42August 6, 2022 11:14 PM

What else is in The MAD Show?

"The Boy From..." is the only song everyone performs from it.

by Anonymousreply 43August 6, 2022 11:21 PM

She knew everyone who was anybody and if you didn't have talent stay out of the way. They would have eaten you alive. Keep on the paying side of the proscenium. What an intimidating bunch. But they are all dead now. There's no one left to scare the shit out of you. There are nasty people. There always are. But no one with talent worth a damn.

by Anonymousreply 44August 6, 2022 11:43 PM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 45August 6, 2022 11:44 PM

[quote]Did Mary Rodgers do anything significant other than Once Upon A Mattress?

Does Adam Guettel count?

by Anonymousreply 46August 6, 2022 11:50 PM

Arthur Laurents was a bastard right up to the end of his life.

He lusted after Matt Cavenaugh during the WSS revival and made his life miserable.

by Anonymousreply 47August 6, 2022 11:53 PM

R47, is that why Matt Cavanaugh played Tony as a gay man in that revival?

It was an awful revival overall. I saw it and realized why WSS didn’t win Best Musical that year

by Anonymousreply 48August 7, 2022 12:02 AM

Some of the questions people are asking here are answered in the NY Times review which the OP so kindly lifted from its pay wall and posted at the beginning of the thread. Does anyone read anything more than a sentence or 2 these days? Jeeeez........

by Anonymousreply 49August 7, 2022 12:12 AM

I'm sure Cavanaugh's WSS experiences were a factor in him giving up Broadway and moving back home to work for his fathers company. He married his high school sweetheart.

Very nice guy.

by Anonymousreply 50August 7, 2022 12:16 AM

R50, the experience was that bad??

by Anonymousreply 51August 7, 2022 12:18 AM

The problem is most people who care about those mentioned in this book are dead

by Anonymousreply 52August 7, 2022 12:19 AM

[quote] What’s baffling to me is that the wife of a musical company would get a book deal for a home entertaining manual.

Richard Rodgers was extraordinarily wealthy--first he made a fortune as Lorenz Hart's songwriting partner, then he made a second fortune as Oscar Hammerstein II's partner. And Dorothy Rodgers made her own fortune as inventor of the Jonny Mop, the Basically Yours dress pattern, and the Ideal Toy Company's Turn and Learn storybooks.

Because of their wealth, Richard Rodgers' position as one of a handful of the most successful Broadway composers for the great American songbook, and Dorothy;'s love of entertaining, they threw legendary parties. All of Richard's Broadway friends would come, including Moss Hart, Leonard and Felicia Bernstein, Comden & Green, Dorothy Fields, Stephen Sondheim, Mary Martin, Alan Jay Lerner, Judy Holliday, Lindsey & Crouse. Plus because Dorothy Rodgers was considered beautiful and very well bred (she went to Horace Mann and Wellesley), she crossed over with Truman Capote's "swans" like Babe Paley and Slim Keith, and theyw ould come to the parties too.

by Anonymousreply 53August 7, 2022 12:27 AM

[quote] Did Mary Rodgers do anything significant other than Once Upon A Mattress?

She wrote the classic (and tewice-filmed) YA novel "Freaky Friday" and its sequels, like "A Billion for Boris."

by Anonymousreply 54August 7, 2022 12:29 AM

Dorothy Rodgers and her "career" are new to me. I need to know more about the society dame who had Joan Crawford expectations about housekeeping AND invented the "Jonny Mop," a midcentury toilet brush.

[quote]Dorothy was as controlling and driven as I suspected. Her friends remember her as manic, rigid, selfish, homophobic, a bad parent: the verdict is brutal. Her two daughters have spent years in therapy coming to terms with what they feel she did to them, and they don’t hesitate to say so in public. Stephen Sondheim calls her “one of the real monsters of the world.”

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by Anonymousreply 55August 7, 2022 12:31 AM

[quote]We all know what a miserable person Laurents was. Was he especially mean to Dick during Waltz? And why did she hate Tom so much?

You'll have to read her memoir (which comes out Tuesday) to find the answer to these questions. But remember she was Sondheim's very best friend, so she would have dealt with Laurents quite a bit through Sondheim: Laurents wrote the books for Gypsy, Wet side story, and Anyone Can Whistle, and directed Anyone Can Whistle and revivals of Gypsy and West Side Story.

[quote]Steve never experimented with her? They never made out?

Those questions are answered in the review that was posted at the beginning of the thread, which you seem not to have read for some reason.

[quote]Did they see each other naked?

Almost certainly since they lived together for a year

[quote]Did Sondheim ever make love to a woman?

If he did it would have been with Lee Remick, whom he thought he fell in love with.

by Anonymousreply 56August 7, 2022 12:40 AM

R50, Matt Cavenaugh married actress Jenny Powers in 2009. Jenny is the granddaughter of Dave Powers, who was JFK's right hand man for years.

Matt still performs on occasion, just not on Broadway.

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by Anonymousreply 57August 7, 2022 12:41 AM

Thank you for that, r57!

Handsome couple.

by Anonymousreply 58August 7, 2022 12:58 AM

I did read it but I'm incredulous that they shared a bed for so long and never even experimented I mean they just lay rigidly next to each other every night? And you can share living quarters with somebody for a long time and never see them naked. Like college roommates today. Maybe Mary and Steve did the towel dance.

by Anonymousreply 59August 7, 2022 1:35 AM

R59, Mary Tyler Moore once admitted that she and husband Grant Tinker never saw each other naked.

by Anonymousreply 60August 7, 2022 1:44 AM

Why is the Kindle version not being released until three weeks after the hardcover version?

Greed?

And no audio version?

by Anonymousreply 61August 7, 2022 1:48 AM

Cavenaugh wasn't all that innocent during WSS. He played up to Laurents (perhaps even led him on a bit).

by Anonymousreply 62August 7, 2022 2:45 AM

[quote]Her friends remember her as manic, rigid, selfish, homophobic, a bad parent:

And those were her FRIENDS!

by Anonymousreply 63August 7, 2022 3:15 AM

[r62] first I’ve heard of that

by Anonymousreply 64August 7, 2022 3:20 AM

Arthur Laurents may have been a bastard, but he certainly accomplished a lot more great work than this dismissive fag hag from hell ever did. Grace Adler before Grace Adler!

by Anonymousreply 65August 7, 2022 3:20 AM

R64, That's because it's not true.

by Anonymousreply 66August 7, 2022 3:31 AM

Jeremy Jordan also had issues with Arrhur Laurents when he split the role of Tony with Matt's replacement, only Jeremy stood up to Laurents and called him out for his behavior.

by Anonymousreply 67August 7, 2022 3:40 AM

[quote] Does anyone read anything more than a sentence or 2 these days?

No, we don't, R49. We don't even bother with a 5 minute Youtube clip.

by Anonymousreply 68August 7, 2022 4:01 AM

Judging by the photo of Matt C.. at r57, it looks like leaving show biz might have been the right decision.

by Anonymousreply 69August 7, 2022 4:09 AM

[quote]No, we don't, [R49]. We don't even bother with a 5 minute Youtube clip.

If it's not on TikTok, it didn't happen.

by Anonymousreply 70August 7, 2022 4:18 AM

[quote] Arthur Laurents may have been a bastard, but

...but he was still a bastard.

He may have accomplished a lot, but that doesn't make him exempt from criticism from her if she didn't like him.

After all, SHE accomplished much more than YOU ever will, and yet here YOU are criticizing HER!

by Anonymousreply 71August 7, 2022 4:26 AM

I wonder if there is discussion of the long-rumored account that some of Guettel children are not actually Hank’s spawn.

by Anonymousreply 72August 7, 2022 4:49 AM

Did Jeremy Jordan ever say what behavior of Laurents he had to call out?

by Anonymousreply 73August 7, 2022 11:47 AM

R70, TikTok isn’t the reason most people skimmed over a long, flowery puff piece about someone whose claim to fame was writing a book people only know about from its film adaptations, having a famous father, and not fucking Stephen Sondheim.

Also, the vast majority to whom Mary Rodgers was a household name died close today forty years ago.

by Anonymousreply 74August 7, 2022 12:24 PM

R70, the point isn’t that they skipped over it. It’s that they were interested enough to ask questions. That were answered in the “long, flowery puff piece.”

by Anonymousreply 75August 7, 2022 12:25 PM

R73, Yes, in this interview he said he called Laurents an asshole.

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by Anonymousreply 76August 7, 2022 1:10 PM

DL fave (and mega diva) Lena Horne had a falling out with Arthur Laurents after a 15 year friendship when she dropped out of a Broadway musical he wrote for her. He blamed it on her militant girlfriend Jeanne Noble, but many think it was Lena being tired of his ornery drama queen ways. Though he knew he had to be on his best behavior with friends like Lena and Streisand. If she hadn't dropped out of the show (Hallelujah Baby) surely appearing in it would have resulted in the same estrangement.

by Anonymousreply 77August 7, 2022 1:51 PM

I realize that had Lena starred in HALLELUJAH, BABY! it might have been written somewhat differently, but for me, seeing it way back when I was in high school....what made it works was Leslie Uggams' lovely innocence, naivete and wonderment in the role. I can't imagine that show with Lena, fabulous though she was. She was too sophisticated and frankly too old.

by Anonymousreply 78August 7, 2022 1:58 PM

This looks terrific. Having just trudged through Laurents' memoir (though finally skimming the final 75 pages or so, when he became too much to bear) I'd love to follow up with this.

by Anonymousreply 79August 7, 2022 1:59 PM

r74, her greatest accomplishment is actually writing the music and lyrics to a much beloved Broadway musical.

Why are you so incredibly bitter?

by Anonymousreply 80August 7, 2022 5:35 PM

"Once Upon a Mattress" was such a big hit, it not only continues to generate royalties, it was filmed like 3 or 4 different times on tv, too.

by Anonymousreply 81August 7, 2022 9:02 PM

R74 is Arthur Laurents from beyond the grave. Mary Rodgers was quite accomplished and only seems less so because she is in the shadow of her remarkably successful father.

That review was also very well done and a pleasure to read, which is not true of most "puff pieces".

by Anonymousreply 82August 7, 2022 9:16 PM

Rodgers also did pretty well stealing from Lorenz Hart and his estate.

A shit who wrote beautiful songs - and Hammerstein crusted them with terrible lyrics.

Don't tell me "successful people cannot be criticized by peons."

Nearly all "successful" people are, indeed, shits.

by Anonymousreply 83August 7, 2022 9:22 PM

What's even more egregious about these ungrateful, dismissive posters NOT reading the review is that it's written by the great DANIEL OKRENT!!!

by Anonymousreply 84August 7, 2022 9:59 PM

[quote] Even into the 21st century, the Rodgers and Hammerstein families were each collecting $7 million a year.)

Mary's biggest payday ever was the $20 million(and counting) she made with Ariana Grande's "7 Rings" song. The royalties from that song alone ensured her a most comfortable old age. That song was a gift from heaven for the Rodgers & Hammerstein estate.

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by Anonymousreply 85August 7, 2022 10:35 PM

Hucka bajeepers!

by Anonymousreply 86August 7, 2022 11:04 PM

r81: The first (black-and-white) television version of 1964 was magical. The sparse set looked like a jungle-gym made of Tinker-Toys. The second version from 1972 is considered the best, with Burnett playing Winifred and Bernadette Peters playing Lady Larken.

The 2005 version (which Disney got their hands on) is horrific, with Tracy Ullman as Winifred, Burnett as Queen Aggravain, and Denis O'Hare as Prince Dauntless,

by Anonymousreply 87August 7, 2022 11:15 PM

I'm surprised she used that title for her book after having seen this performance.

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by Anonymousreply 88August 7, 2022 11:18 PM

[quote]he first (black-and-white) television version of 1964 was magical.

Was this the one with Elliott Gould?

by Anonymousreply 89August 7, 2022 11:46 PM

Gould is a lot of fun on the recorded from the audience recording of "Drat! the Cat! alongside Lesley Ann Warren. Rather a shame he seemed to mostly give up musicals after he went to Hollywood (and then after a great start, faded out for years).

by Anonymousreply 90August 7, 2022 11:55 PM

R90, "Harry and Walter Go to New York"(1976).

by Anonymousreply 91August 8, 2022 12:27 AM

For a dilletante daughter of talented and famous people, she had a pretty good career.

For every Mary Rodgers there's a boatload of Rumer Willises.

by Anonymousreply 92August 8, 2022 12:57 AM

The stories about her mother being a nightmare monster really give a new dimension to "Freaky Friday":

"When I woke up this morning, I found that I'd turned into my mother."

by Anonymousreply 93August 8, 2022 2:23 AM

I'd have loved to have been turned into Barbara Harris.

by Anonymousreply 94August 8, 2022 2:48 AM

Did Mary and Judy have any run-ins?

by Anonymousreply 95August 8, 2022 3:07 AM

R85 Mary R was gone years before this song, of course. I don't know enough about copyright law to say whether her son is benefiting from it.

by Anonymousreply 96August 8, 2022 1:39 PM

R96, What has her son done since Piazza?

by Anonymousreply 97August 8, 2022 2:57 PM

Writing less successful work and teaching.

by Anonymousreply 98August 8, 2022 3:21 PM

[quote]then after a great start, faded out for years

Gould self-destructed after a year at the top - drugs and mental instability. They closed down production of a movie in 1971 because of it. Robert Altman gave him another change two years later, but Gould's career was never the same. Real loser.

(The movie was the drama A Glimpse of Tiger, which eventually became the comedy What's up Doc with you know who)

by Anonymousreply 99August 8, 2022 3:27 PM

change should be chance

by Anonymousreply 100August 8, 2022 3:28 PM

R94 Barbara Harris was lovely and a wonderful performer, but apparently not very confident in herself. She apparently had a breakdown during a performance of "The Apple Tree" and had to be replaced mid-performance. Alan Alda certainly must have liked working with her, as he hired her later for "The Seduction of Joe Tynan", also with Meryl.

by Anonymousreply 101August 8, 2022 5:37 PM

BH '67

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by Anonymousreply 102August 8, 2022 7:31 PM

Barbara Harris was an oddity in that she was inordinately gifted as an actress and as a singer, but she didn't really like performing--she loved workshopping and rehearsing. But when she had to perform in front on an audience she felt that she was expected to :freeze" her performance and not try out new things, and she hated that--and she also suffered from stage fright.

After "The Apple Tree" she mostly moved to film, and gave memorable performances in "Family Plot," "Freaky Friday," "The Seduction of Joe Tynan," "Peggy Sue Got Married," and especially "Nashville." Then she decided what she really enjoyed most was still the workshopping, so she became a teacher.

She was such an intriguing woman. She had such rare gifts--she could project vulnerability like very few singers with big voices can. It's very illuminating to compare her singing "Here in Eden" from THE APPLE TREE with Kristin Chenoweth's performance of the same song--Chenoweth goes for cheesy cute effects (as always), but Harris really makes you feel the complex array of emotions Eve feels when she sings the song: her excitement, her fear, her confusion, and even her corruptibility.

by Anonymousreply 103August 8, 2022 7:45 PM

Well, r103, I would consider film work as being the ultimate in freezing a performance.

by Anonymousreply 104August 8, 2022 8:08 PM

R104 - but the freezing isn't on the actor - it happens in the editing.

The joy of working on footage from a real skilled actor is they give slightly different, but all appropriate, performances of the lines / scene from take to take. In the edit you and the director have the luxury of shaping the performance based on having several good choices for any particular moment. So an actor like Harris would be a natural at that.

by Anonymousreply 105August 8, 2022 8:30 PM

[quote]TikTok isn’t the reason most people skimmed over a long, flowery puff piece about someone whose claim to fame was writing a book people only know about from its film adaptations, having a famous father, and not fucking Stephen Sondheim. Also, the vast majority to whom Mary Rodgers was a household name died close today forty years ago.

And yet, she's so much more interesting than you are.

by Anonymousreply 106August 8, 2022 8:52 PM

I was blessed to see Barbara Harris in On a Clear Day.... and The Apple Tree when I was a teenager. Both brilliant unforgettable performances without a shred of hesitation in them. And no matter what anyone says, I still prefer her renditions of On a Clear Day's songs to those of Ms Streisand.

by Anonymousreply 107August 8, 2022 9:04 PM

Barbara Harris just radiates on screen....she had such great charisma and charm.

Elliot Gould is really a terrible actor. He just mumbles and stumbles and never seems like a real character. It's just Gould mumbling around sounding phony.

by Anonymousreply 108August 8, 2022 9:24 PM

See and hear for yourselves.

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by Anonymousreply 109August 8, 2022 9:29 PM

Regardless, r105, the performance that ends up on screen is indeed frozen.

by Anonymousreply 110August 8, 2022 10:13 PM

R110 But that wouldn't concern the actor or Ms. Harris -- she could, if the director allowed, do retake after retake, and she could think she's just getting another shot at getting it right, which is apparently what she really liked to do. Then, the editor and director picks what to use in the final product.

by Anonymousreply 111August 8, 2022 11:25 PM

You really miss the point, r110. Harris seemingly wasn't interested in focusing on the final product. She loved the process and that's where the joy in her work rested.

by Anonymousreply 112August 9, 2022 12:54 AM

R80, for what "much beloved Broadway musical" did Mary Rodgers write music and lyrics?

by Anonymousreply 113August 9, 2022 1:20 AM

Harris is just amazing in that clip at r109. "On the SS Bernard Cohn" is just a silly little upbeat novelty song, and she makes this incredible narrative out of it. The chorus members are dancing the shit out of it, but even so you still can't take your eyes off Harris.

Who is that prissy queen narrating the sequence? is that Cyril Ritchard? Whoever it is, he's unintentionally hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 114August 9, 2022 1:23 AM

Yes, that is Cyril Ritchard.

by Anonymousreply 115August 9, 2022 1:25 AM

I'm not missing the point r12.I know that she enjoyed the process more. I was simply pointing out that film is the ultimate in freezing a performance.

by Anonymousreply 116August 9, 2022 2:17 AM

Did she ever show Steve Sondheim her vajayjay like Lea showed Jonathan Groff hers?

by Anonymousreply 117August 9, 2022 2:58 AM

But you are missing the point R116, the larger one about the actual content of the discussion. The kind of “performance freezing” that made Harris uncomfortable had absolutely nothing to do with how a film freezes a performance. They are apples and oranges, and the point about film, while true, is not germane to the thread’s point about Harris - it has nothing to do with her somewhat idiosyncratic feeling about being constrained during a theatrical run

by Anonymousreply 118August 9, 2022 4:27 AM

I'm not missing your point, r118, you're making too much of a simple observation.

[quote] it has nothing to do with her somewhat idiosyncratic feeling about being constrained during a theatrical run

I didn't say it did.

by Anonymousreply 119August 9, 2022 5:42 AM
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by Anonymousreply 120August 9, 2022 5:45 AM

Good dirt on Ed “Mr. Caroline Kennedy” Schlossberg in the article at r55. He’s the unnamed grifter who tried to tap the Rodgers riches in Dorothy’s dowager years.

by Anonymousreply 121August 9, 2022 1:46 PM

My copy arrived yesterday afternoon. I started reading after dinner and didn't put it down until I read 80 pages and went to bed. And then I dreamed about Mary! Her voice really gets into your head and in a good way like a best friend.

Anecdotes that will be discussed on this site for decades to come! So good.

by Anonymousreply 122August 10, 2022 1:44 PM

Let's hear some now, R122.

by Anonymousreply 123August 10, 2022 1:52 PM

Any juicy stories????????

by Anonymousreply 124August 10, 2022 1:59 PM

I won't go into specifics because it's so much funnier in Mary's voice but she has hilarious and perceptive observations on Mary Martin and her marriage to the "bony fingered" Richard Halliday.

This is much further into the book than I've read but when I saw the photo of Mary Martin I had to read a bit of that chapter. There's no index, btw, but lots of photos, all new to me.

by Anonymousreply 125August 10, 2022 2:40 PM

R122, I pre-ordered a copy from amazon.com, but they have yet to give me a shipping date. WTF?

by Anonymousreply 126August 10, 2022 2:44 PM

Won't some kind-hearted Datalounger post excerpts from her book here?

Please... for me?

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by Anonymousreply 127August 10, 2022 3:13 PM

The story of her "trial marriage" with Sondheim is quite the exaggeration. It turns up in the Secrest Sondheim bio, minus the sleeping-in-the-same-bed-but-not-touching detail and the "trial marriage" descriptor. Mary's the source there, too. Certainly he proposed some sort of romantic relationship to see if something might work out, but by her own description she rarely stayed overnight and never moved in. It's barely even "trial dating."

by Anonymousreply 128August 10, 2022 3:19 PM

R113, is "much beloved" such a stretch for a show that was successfully revived and televised three times?

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by Anonymousreply 129August 10, 2022 3:48 PM

“Mary! Rodgers?” Is this Aaron Rodgers’ alter ego?

by Anonymousreply 130August 10, 2022 3:51 PM

R129, I assumed ONCE UPON A MATTRESS was the show meant but she didn't write music and lyrics for it.

by Anonymousreply 131August 10, 2022 3:58 PM

Amazon is out of stock. They didn't order enough for the pre-orders?

by Anonymousreply 132August 10, 2022 4:16 PM

R131, OK "just" the music. Still probably more than anyone here has done.

by Anonymousreply 133August 10, 2022 4:26 PM

I got my pre-ordered Amazon copy yesterday afternoon as promised and even got a notification today of a refund of about $10 to my account for pre-ordering the book.

by Anonymousreply 134August 10, 2022 4:30 PM

Amazon has no hard cover copies

by Anonymousreply 135August 10, 2022 4:34 PM

I am loving how R116 seems to think that the actors in films are repeating their scenes each time the film is shown.

At least that seems to be the only way to make sense of his comments.

by Anonymousreply 136August 10, 2022 4:43 PM

[quote]At least that seems to be the only way to make sense of his comments.

If you're a moron, sure

by Anonymousreply 137August 10, 2022 4:46 PM

R135, Didn't they realize theatre queens have been salivating over the release of this book?

by Anonymousreply 138August 10, 2022 4:50 PM

R137, maybe you can explain it.

by Anonymousreply 139August 10, 2022 4:55 PM

The explanation, r139, is that you're choosing to be obtuse.

by Anonymousreply 140August 10, 2022 5:03 PM

Her dad never engaged in gay sex? Hard to believe in the career.

by Anonymousreply 141August 10, 2022 5:08 PM

Why would a straight man engage in gay sex even if her were in the theater? He was a composer not a dancer.

by Anonymousreply 142August 10, 2022 5:22 PM

There's an anecdote about Richard Rodgers starting his new car that's worth the price of the book (even though it may be apocryphal, acc. to the footnote).

by Anonymousreply 143August 10, 2022 6:44 PM

I am obtuse then. Maybe you can explain it, R140.

Yes, in film you do have to worry about continuity, but directors ask you to keep exploring and trying new things with each take.

by Anonymousreply 144August 10, 2022 6:53 PM

And then one of those takes is chosen by the editor, and forever becomes that performance, with all the others discarded. So frozen.

How do you actually need this explained?

by Anonymousreply 145August 10, 2022 7:13 PM

Thank you, r145. I was beginning to think it was me.

by Anonymousreply 146August 10, 2022 7:58 PM

[quote]but directors ask you to keep exploring and trying new things with each take

r144, I'd like you to meet my pal, Al Hitchcock...

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by Anonymousreply 147August 10, 2022 8:47 PM

The other takes are supposed to match the master shot. Plus directors don't necessarily give the editors carte blanche -- the director watches and chooses what take he wants them to use for the most part.

by Anonymousreply 148August 10, 2022 9:14 PM

Fine, put director in place of editor, doesn't change anything.

by Anonymousreply 149August 10, 2022 9:33 PM

[quote]her marriage to the "bony fingered" Richard Halliday.

At least he wasn't a short-fingered vulgarian.

by Anonymousreply 150August 10, 2022 9:47 PM

Your choice, Marla. Was it love at first sight, or sighting of moolah?

by Anonymousreply 151August 10, 2022 10:49 PM

Can we please get back to talking about Mary!?

by Anonymousreply 152August 10, 2022 11:20 PM

Barbara Cook said she was in her dressing room with her mother. Mary who was a big fan of hers came by with her husband. Barbara introduced her mother to Mary but forgot Richard Halliday's name. Mary never spoke to Barbara again.

by Anonymousreply 153August 11, 2022 2:40 AM

Exactly, r153. The dressing room had previously been Mary's for Peter Pan. She had left a big smoochy note on the mirror. So Barbara had expected a love fest.

by Anonymousreply 154August 11, 2022 2:45 AM

Phshaw. Mary forgot RIchard's name and Richard himself when she was with Janet Gaynor.

by Anonymousreply 155August 11, 2022 3:20 AM

scissoring!

by Anonymousreply 156August 11, 2022 4:11 AM

R153, They both participated in a tribute to Robert Preston at the 1987 Tony Awards, so the rehearsal must have awkward if they weren't speaking.

by Anonymousreply 157August 11, 2022 4:56 AM

R157, Here it is . . .

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by Anonymousreply 158August 11, 2022 4:58 AM

[quote]Cavenaugh wasn't all that innocent during WSS. He played up to Laurents (perhaps even led him on a bit).

I wouldn't be surprised if he did exactly that to get the part. Before the show was cast, Laurents made a huge deal about how this WSS, as compared to previous productions, was going to have very young performers in the leads, because the characters are supposed to be teenagers. And the next thing you know, he had cast Cavenaugh, who was 31 at the time. Apparently, Laurents became so enamored of Cavenaugh, who indeed was quite a hot piece of ass at the time, that the age-appropriate casting stuff flew out the window REALLY fast.

According to Michael Riedel, Laurents acted like a spurned lover when Cavenaugh became engaged to Jenny Powers. And though Riedel was not always accurate, it sure seemed like he nailed this one.

by Anonymousreply 159August 11, 2022 5:25 AM

Just received a delivery update from amazon.com for my pre-ordered copy of "Shy".

I could be dead by then . . .

New estimated delivery date: Sunday, September 25, 2022

by Anonymousreply 160August 11, 2022 5:34 AM

Well, R160, cancel the order and order the book from somewhere else, like the Drama Book Shop.

by Anonymousreply 161August 11, 2022 6:18 AM

R161, It's backordered everywhere. How could the publisher have been so shortsighted?

by Anonymousreply 162August 11, 2022 6:30 AM

Matt Cavenaugh in "Urban Cowboy" poster back in the day.

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by Anonymousreply 163August 11, 2022 7:41 AM

What is it about this book that is bringing out contemporary consumerist entitlement? R61 is angry because he doesn’t get a deal on an e-book and then blames the publishers for being greedy? R160 and r162 couldn’t bothered to pre-order, but get upset about a five week delay.

by Anonymousreply 164August 11, 2022 12:32 PM

[quote]Before the show was cast, Laurents made a huge deal about how this WSS, as compared to previous productions, was going to have very young performers in the leads, because the characters are supposed to be teenagers. And the next thing you know, he had cast Cavenaugh, who was 31 at the time.

Shades of Spielberg insisting he was going to cast an unknown teen as Tony in WSS, and then casting Elgort

by Anonymousreply 165August 11, 2022 12:43 PM

I guess the theater queen census needs an update. Amazon didn't anticipate the demand; neither did my local bookstore. And kindle putting a hold on the ebook till the end of August probably accounts for some of the hard copy order volume.

Everybody's making a big deal out of this so-called trial marriage (which Green claims has never been written about before but was described in the Secrest bio of Sondheim). When I actually read the passage in the book, it wasn't anything of the kind. More like they decided to try changing their friendship into something more (but not something sexual), but they were barely dating and had an occasional sex-free sleepover. Weird, but not a trial marriage--whatever that is.

by Anonymousreply 166August 11, 2022 1:43 PM

So, I'm almost 1/2 way through Mary's book now. Man, she slept with a lot of guys and so many of them were gay! Or other Broadway composers. Or both! And this was at a time she was a young divorcee raising 3 children under 8.

by Anonymousreply 167August 11, 2022 1:45 PM

Sleeping with anyone when you've got 3 little kids in the house is a neat trick. But later she says she didn't care if they saw her.

by Anonymousreply 168August 11, 2022 2:01 PM

I'm loving the book but it's definitely just for diehard Broadway and NY culture trivia fans. If you're not amused by anecdotes about Flora Roberts and Joe Bova (who? who?), this may not be the book for you.

by Anonymousreply 169August 11, 2022 2:22 PM

Obviously, R164 flunked Reading Comprehension 101.

by Anonymousreply 170August 11, 2022 2:31 PM

I wrote previously about pre-orders not being filled. R164 indeed has reading issues.

by Anonymousreply 171August 11, 2022 2:48 PM

How did R166 and R167 get the book when no one else can?

by Anonymousreply 172August 11, 2022 3:30 PM

[quote]How did [R166] and [R167] get the book when no one else can?

By sleeping with Mary Rodgers?

by Anonymousreply 173August 11, 2022 3:43 PM

We got it because we pre-ordered it. Not a complicated issue.

by Anonymousreply 174August 11, 2022 3:56 PM

Why would a bunch of gay guys sleep with her?

by Anonymousreply 175August 11, 2022 4:15 PM

For a little bit of Dick.

by Anonymousreply 176August 11, 2022 4:23 PM

I pre=ordered my copy about 2 weeks before the publishing date Aug. 9.

I received my copy from Amazon on the afternoon of Aug. 9, as well as a notification they were refunding about $10 because I pre-ordered. So, instead of $30, I paid $20.

I know we all want to support indie book stores (which I also do) but sometimes Amazon is the way to go.

by Anonymousreply 177August 11, 2022 4:51 PM

R177, I also pre-ordered on amazon.com two weeks before the August 9th publishing date, yet I received a September 25th shipping date.

Not wanting to wait, I placed an order with a NYC bookstore who has it in stock and cancelled the amazon.com order.

by Anonymousreply 178August 11, 2022 5:35 PM

(R175) Beats me!

by Anonymousreply 179August 11, 2022 5:49 PM

I got mine. Preorder. Arrived on the 9th

by Anonymousreply 180August 11, 2022 7:04 PM

About halfway through. Lives up to the hype. Wonderfully readable and bitchy. Didn't realize she had an on-again, off-again thing with Hal Prince. (If he was bi, she doesn't mention it.) And love hear about the bi Marshall Barer. He needs his own book.

by Anonymousreply 181August 11, 2022 7:23 PM

How dare this dead cunt steal my thunder!!

by Anonymousreply 182August 11, 2022 8:18 PM

Peg

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by Anonymousreply 183August 11, 2022 9:31 PM

The chapters on the creation of Once Upon a Mattress are so far the most compelling career-wise, no surprise. It was first written as just a summer's slight entertainment at Tamiment in the Poconos for the existing group of actors (and their particular talents) in the rep company.

What I didn't know - though Mary had hoped for Nancy Walker to star when it was first done in NYC, off-Broadway, she was shocked to find that newly hired venerable director George Abbott, who everyone seemed to both revile and respect, didn't want Nancy and insisted they find a new star (Pat Carroll - RIP - was briefly considered). Hence the discovery of Carol Burnett.

And Abbott bestowing the musical The Princess and the Pea with its new title Once Upon a Mattress, which everyone initially hated because they thought it would make people think it was a sex farce.

And the story of Abbott's objection to Jane White - "No Negro queen in a medieval kingdom!" until she considerably lightened her already light complexion and wowed him at a call back audition.

And Abbott's classic comeback when asked by Joe Bova as Prince Dauntless (who Mary and Carol both detested) what his motivation was to cross the stage - "Your paycheck!"

by Anonymousreply 184August 11, 2022 11:30 PM

Joe Bova, as "Uncle Joe Bova", hosted a kiddie cartoon program on one of the local New York stations back in the 50s.

by Anonymousreply 185August 11, 2022 11:50 PM

Yeah, and now I know why he never guested on Carol's TV show.

by Anonymousreply 186August 11, 2022 11:54 PM

[quote]And Abbott's classic comeback when asked by Joe Bova as Prince Dauntless (who Mary and Carol both detested) what his motivation was to cross the stage - "Your paycheck!"

Does Mary say she heard this herself? I've run into this exchange several times over the years but it was always attributed to an actress and Alfred Hitchcock.

by Anonymousreply 187August 11, 2022 11:59 PM

I had heard that it was George Abbott saying it to Stephen Douglass as the original young Joe Hardy in "Damn Yankees".

by Anonymousreply 188August 12, 2022 12:56 AM

I heard it was Beanie.

by Anonymousreply 189August 12, 2022 12:58 AM

[quote] [R80], for what "much beloved Broadway musical" did Mary Rodgers write music and lyrics?

Such bullshit you would call this into question for Once Upon a Mattress. There have been multiple TV adaptations, and it is one of the most often-performed of all high school musicals.

Whether you liker it or not, it is indeed much beloved in the USA.

by Anonymousreply 190August 12, 2022 1:05 AM

They keep saying there are shocking and alarming things in this book but everything spilled so far is neither. We knew many many years ago while she was alive Mary had a crush on Sondheim when they were young. Them sleeping in the same bed and nothing happening but some tension is something we've all been through. So she dated Harold Prince. Maybe her walking in on Prince getting a blowjob from John Raitt to get the lead in Pajama Game would have been something more like it.

by Anonymousreply 191August 12, 2022 1:08 AM

Mary didn't write the lyrics, r190.

by Anonymousreply 192August 12, 2022 1:14 AM

[quote]They keep saying there are shocking and alarming things in this book

Who, r191, who keeps saying that?

by Anonymousreply 193August 12, 2022 1:16 AM

That "your paycheck" (sometimes "your salary") is such a great line maybe it's been used more than once by more than one person.

Wilde: I wish I'd said that.

Whistler: You will, Oscar, you will.

by Anonymousreply 194August 12, 2022 1:18 AM

She also calls Bova "a moron—an arrogant, undisciplined little shit." It's these unvarnished opinions that I relish.

by Anonymousreply 195August 12, 2022 1:26 AM

R193, see OP's link:

[quote] The book is pure pleasure — except when it’s jaw-droppingly shocking.

by Anonymousreply 196August 12, 2022 1:31 AM

'It was his introduction to Rodgers' alarmingly outspoken ways. "Their behavior was not demure, because during that meeting, just about any provocation from me, any slight little question would result in torrents of shockingly honest answers, '

by Anonymousreply 197August 12, 2022 1:35 AM

Speaking of not-jaw-droppingly shocking: Jesse Green in interviews has stated that we are all learning for the first time about this "trial marriage" with Sondheim. But it's actually in the Secrest bio of Sondheim, also with Mary as the source, and Sondheim waffling but conceding that he might have suggested they might work as couple. It wasn't called a trial marriage, and in fact Mary says in this book that nobody used that word but it was tacitly understood.

by Anonymousreply 198August 12, 2022 2:30 AM

If Mary Rodgers didn't like Joe Bova around the time of "Once Upon a Mattress", why was he cast in the Judy Holliday-led flop "Hot Spot" which Rodgers also wrote later on?

by Anonymousreply 199August 12, 2022 2:59 AM

I thought Joe Bova was kinda cute.

by Anonymousreply 200August 12, 2022 3:21 AM

As composer, Mary may not have had the clout to object to Bova's casting. Maybe he was right for the role.

HOT SPOT had five (!) directors during its short run, including Arthur Laurents—another reason for her to hate him. None was listed on opening night.

by Anonymousreply 201August 12, 2022 3:34 AM

I gathered from the book that Mary wasn't much of a fan of Judy Holliday either. I'd post some specifics but fear they'd come off as cruel out of context. Anyway, the book is worth buying just for the chapters on Hot Spot.

I can tell already that the same people demanding shocking revelations will be the same people complaining about Mary's uncensored honesty.

by Anonymousreply 202August 12, 2022 3:49 AM

Wasn't Holliday already fighting the cancer that eventually took her life during Hot Spot? Does Mary mention anything about that?

by Anonymousreply 203August 12, 2022 4:02 AM

She was definitely fighting the cancer that ultimately killed her during "Hot Spot," R203. It's obvious in photos of her from the show. She looks frail and is wearing a truly terrible wig.

by Anonymousreply 204August 12, 2022 8:33 AM

According to Arthur Laurents in his follow up memoir, Judy Holliday was a lesbian living with her girlfriend, a butch cop. When she struck it big, the gf disappeared, and Holliday played straight.

by Anonymousreply 205August 12, 2022 9:26 AM

Mmm, a butch cop.

by Anonymousreply 206August 12, 2022 9:31 AM

And when Holliday seemed like she might be too ill to do the show, Sondheim suggested Streisand as her replacement.

by Anonymousreply 207August 12, 2022 12:40 PM

[quote]Not wanting to wait, I placed an order with a NYC bookstore who has it in stock and cancelled the amazon.com order.

I'm not sure why you declined to name the NYC bookstore in question, but when I called the Drama Book Shop on publication day, they said they had 50 copies in stock, so I went there later that day and got one.

by Anonymousreply 208August 12, 2022 1:09 PM

Anyone here see Hot Spot? Must have been quite the turkey.

by Anonymousreply 209August 12, 2022 1:15 PM

[quote]Does Mary say she heard this herself? I've run into this exchange several times over the years but it was always attributed to an actress and Alfred Hitchcock.

Interesting. I had always heard it was an Abbot quote, though the story varied as to whom he said it to. I wouldn't think Hitchcock would react that way to a question about motivation. whereas Abbott was apparently more get-up-and-do-it.

by Anonymousreply 210August 12, 2022 1:16 PM

Mary , though in awe of Judy Holliday's past accomplishments in Born Yesterday and Bells Are Ringing, felt Judy was 20 years too old for the character as written. And she was concerned about Judy's ill-health which was always evident (Judy had undergone a mastectomy a few years earlier).

Then Mary was relieved when Judy came to her and the producers to say she'd be too ill to begin rehearsals and was utterly intrigued by casting the young pre-Funny Girl Streisand , who was brought to her attention by Arthur Laurents. But then Judy came back and lied and said she had a clean bill of health and rehearsals, always bumpy, began.

Judy died only days after Hot Spot, a total misfire, closed.

by Anonymousreply 211August 12, 2022 1:53 PM

Would Barbra have survived a huge flop as her debut vehicle?

by Anonymousreply 212August 12, 2022 3:48 PM

R212, She'd already been on Broadway in Wholesale and Tony nominated, losing to Phyllis Newman.

by Anonymousreply 213August 12, 2022 4:09 PM

R184 Abbott was right. Nancy Walker was great, but she was a bit old for the part. She was in a musical with Phil Silvers around this time playing an older character and was terrific.

by Anonymousreply 214August 12, 2022 4:23 PM

[quote]Judy died only days after Hot Spot, a total misfire, closed.

Hot Spot closed May 25, 1963, r211. Judy died June 7, 1965.

by Anonymousreply 215August 12, 2022 5:19 PM

Judy would have been superb if she had lived and done "Hello, Dolly!" on screen (and/or stage).

by Anonymousreply 216August 12, 2022 5:24 PM

[quote] I'd post some specifics but fear they'd come off as cruel out of context.

Spill, this is Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 217August 12, 2022 5:55 PM

Judy was too Jewish for Hello, Dolly!

by Anonymousreply 218August 12, 2022 8:37 PM

Company should be redone with the song “Ladies Who Munch” which would include Judy, Kate Hepburn and Lena Horne. Who else should be part of that ensemble?

by Anonymousreply 219August 12, 2022 8:42 PM

[quote] Judy was too Jewish for Hello, Dolly!

Whatevah.

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by Anonymousreply 220August 12, 2022 8:58 PM

Judy was meh.

by Anonymousreply 221August 12, 2022 9:16 PM

Babs says to this day she was miscast and always disparages the film.

by Anonymousreply 222August 12, 2022 9:19 PM

Judy's Billie Dawn certainly could have been a shiska. Nothing seemed particularly kosher about her.

by Anonymousreply 223August 12, 2022 9:31 PM

shiksa, that is

by Anonymousreply 224August 12, 2022 9:31 PM

Billie Dawn was written specifically for Jean Arthur, who played the tryouts. Holliday didn't replace her until just a few days before the New York opening.

by Anonymousreply 225August 12, 2022 9:51 PM

Yes, and Holliday played her brilliantly. No signs of Judith Tuvim (Holliday's real name) in her playing of the role.

by Anonymousreply 226August 12, 2022 10:25 PM

Wasn't Jean Arthur in her 50s at that point?

by Anonymousreply 227August 12, 2022 10:37 PM

Arthur had been lying about her age for years, but she still looked younger.

by Anonymousreply 228August 12, 2022 10:42 PM

R228, It worked for me.

by Anonymousreply 229August 12, 2022 11:05 PM

Judy had razzamatazz...

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by Anonymousreply 230August 13, 2022 5:06 AM

Adam is quite cute.

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by Anonymousreply 231August 14, 2022 4:32 AM

Until the book orders are filled, this interview is interesting--

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by Anonymousreply 232August 14, 2022 4:42 AM

I bought a copy of "Shy" today from an independent book store. To put it mildly, some many things in it that one NEVER spoke of. I remember when Mr. and Mrs. Rodgers were all but secular saints in parts of the Jewish community. He, a liberal; she, so elegant and with her own career(s.) Normally when a book like this is published, there's an outcry from surviving friends--and there must be some. You know, how dare Mary say such things about dead parents. So far, not a peep.

by Anonymousreply 233August 14, 2022 5:07 AM

How many surviving friends can there be, r233?

by Anonymousreply 234August 14, 2022 5:15 AM

[R234] Surviving friends? Not many, but there might be some. I haven't read enough to see what the grandchildren said.

by Anonymousreply 235August 14, 2022 6:06 AM

Is Angela a surviving friend? We need some outcrying!

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by Anonymousreply 236August 14, 2022 6:20 AM

Green makes it clear that he spoke to many of Rodgers' surviving family and friends about her, and I suspect that very few had a supportive word for Dick and Dorothy. Others have long since mentioned or written about the pair were pretty toxic.

by Anonymousreply 237August 14, 2022 1:15 PM

I don't think Rodgers had any friends. Dorothy either. In his book on the making of Sunday, Lapine tells how Dorothy Rodgers--then on the board of Playwrights--argues that Sondheim is a commercial composer and doesn't merit public funds. It's clear in that narrative that her motive in shutting down the funding was personal because she hated Sondheim. Andre Bishop, then Playwrights' artistic director, tells the same basic story in SHY.

I hate to say it, because I think Mary was in many ways admirable, but the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

by Anonymousreply 238August 14, 2022 1:28 PM

Stories about Rodger being a cold hearted son of a bitch go way way back. If you didn't know this you were born yesterday. Also Dorothy being worse than her husband I heard years ago from a friend. I hope there is better stuff than this. And since when does a man who can afford a house in Turtle Bay deserve public funds for artists?

by Anonymousreply 239August 14, 2022 1:55 PM

The funding wasn't for Sondheim personally, asshole. It was for Playwrights' production. Did you suppose Sondheim would otherwise open his personal checkbook?

by Anonymousreply 240August 14, 2022 2:07 PM

So she felt that Sunday should have been a commercial production from the get go. I couldn't care less about Dorothy Rodgers but in an important national magazine cover story Sondheim said her husband was a man of limited humanity. Irving Berlin was so furious he wrote a letter to said magazine and it was published. So in this instance it was understandable. Bet you didn't know that ASSHOLE because if you did you would have mentioned it simply to be fair.

by Anonymousreply 241August 14, 2022 2:31 PM

R241, It seems to have been Sondheim's opinion that artists shouldn't be criticized while they are still living and working, but it's fine to do so after they're dead. But, news flash, Sondheim wasn't always consistent in his pronouncements, and he sometimes seemed to be hypocritical, as evidenced by his famous comment about Rodgers as compared to Hammerstein. Maybe in Sondheim's mind it was okay for him to publicly trash Rodgers' character because he wasn't trashing his work?

by Anonymousreply 242August 14, 2022 2:39 PM

It’s hard not to sympathize with Arthur Laurents even though he was a bitter Betty. Mary Rodgers froze him out because he was “mean”

Yet…her mother, father, herself and her best friend (sondheim) were comparable cunts

by Anonymousreply 243August 14, 2022 2:44 PM

Speaking of monster parents, does Mary mention Steve's mother?

by Anonymousreply 244August 14, 2022 2:44 PM

R244

I have not finished the whole book yet but there is a story where she insulted Steve and to apologize she sent him a silver platter and he responded why isn’t my mothers head on it

by Anonymousreply 245August 14, 2022 2:49 PM

Its clear to me that most of the posters criticizing Mary and the book have not read the book in its entirety. The issues discussed here are dealt with by Mary with far more complex feelings, including her complicated relationship with her parents. And Mary is harder on herself throughout than she is on anyone else. And her musings can be quite hilarious, too.

You should all read her book.

by Anonymousreply 246August 14, 2022 2:53 PM

Did Dorothy say to Mary my one regret in life is having had you as Sondheim's mother said to him?

by Anonymousreply 247August 14, 2022 2:56 PM

No, but Dorothy did say to Mary: "We love you but we don't like you."

by Anonymousreply 248August 14, 2022 3:05 PM

[quote]Green makes it clear that he spoke to many of Rodgers' surviving family and friends about her

I was referring to r233's reference to *Dick and Dorothy's* surviving friends, r237.

by Anonymousreply 249August 14, 2022 3:06 PM

Many of them knew both Mary and her parents. Seems he spoke to just about everyone.

by Anonymousreply 250August 14, 2022 3:50 PM

What he said, r241, was that Rodgers was a man of infinite talent but limited soul (as distinguished from Hammerstein, whom Sondheim characterized as having infinite soul but limited talent). And I didn't mention it because it wasn't remotely relevant to the story of Dorothy and Playwrights. I think you may be stupid.

And as it happens, Mary's memoir makes clear that both her parents hated Sondheim long before that story appeared in Newsweek or wherever it was.

by Anonymousreply 251August 14, 2022 4:06 PM

[quote] argues that Sondheim is a commercial composer and doesn't merit public funds.

Well, isn't that true?

by Anonymousreply 252August 14, 2022 4:17 PM

That Theatre Talk episode with Mary Rodgers at r232 is a great window into her book. You get a lot of the personality that comes out with even more honesty and humor in the book, in particular about the failings of SJP in the revival of Once Upon a Mattress , which she's there to promote the week before it opened.

by Anonymousreply 253August 14, 2022 4:27 PM

r252, Sondheim certainly had been a commercial composer up to that point, but nobody was underwriting him or his work with "public funds.". The funds were going to Playwrights Horizons' venture in mounting a production of what was then an experimental and unfinished work.

Why is this distinction so difficult to grasp?

by Anonymousreply 254August 14, 2022 4:33 PM

And, anyway, r252, the mold had long been broken with Marvin Hamlisch and Michael Bennett on A Chorus Line at The Public in 1975. I'm sure that had Richard Rodgers lived and worked another 10 years, he would have seen a new musical of his premiere at some non-profit, too.

Dorothy Rodgers was very out of touch.

by Anonymousreply 255August 14, 2022 4:47 PM

I think Dorothy was less out of touch than vindictive. It seems to have been a family trait.

by Anonymousreply 256August 14, 2022 4:55 PM

Does anyone know of any other online bookstores that has it in stock? I thought I had preordered it, but it appears I stupidly just saved it for later in my cart. I went to the Drama Book Shop website and the title wasn’t listed.

by Anonymousreply 257August 14, 2022 6:00 PM

Richard Rodgers was written out by the end. Over half of I Remember Mama came from his trunk.

by Anonymousreply 258August 14, 2022 6:03 PM

Did Bette Midler ever see "I Remember Mama"

by Anonymousreply 259August 14, 2022 6:06 PM

I, on the other hand, purchased the last dust-jacketed fine copy I could find of the dreaded Dorothy Rodgers' "My Favorite Things," her home decorating and entertaining book.

It is so frightening, sad, needy and grasping on every page that it engages the imagination and holds it with camp terror.

by Anonymousreply 260August 14, 2022 6:14 PM

There's only so much jam in the jar, r258.

by Anonymousreply 261August 14, 2022 6:31 PM

And I didn't mention it because it wasn't remotely relevant to the story of Dorothy and Playwrights. I think you may be stupid.

Of course it was relevant. It only fed her hatred of him. I think you like to leave things out and call other people asshole and stupid when you're defensively dimwitted.

by Anonymousreply 262August 14, 2022 6:58 PM

Another thing is that I love the work of both Rodgers and Sondheim but it sounds like both Laurents and Sondheim made Rodgers life hell during Waltz. Dick was attempting to make a musical version of Summertime while the two bitchy queens wanted to make the lead character not simply lonely and awkward but also unpleasant and selfish. She sure was in the Encores production. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Even Ethan Mordden who loves the work of both composers said Rodgers was right. You can hear it in the score. It starts off wonderfully then as it progresses it becomes weaker and more dispirited.

by Anonymousreply 263August 14, 2022 7:27 PM

There is a scene in the original Laurents play "The TIme of the Cuckoo" I believe where the main character blurts out something that really hurts another couple. I forget if it is intentional and mean, or if she is just made a unintentional goof, but the scene does make her seem less sympathetic for a while.

by Anonymousreply 264August 14, 2022 8:18 PM

Didn't that scene remain in the play?

by Anonymousreply 265August 14, 2022 8:25 PM

It was based on Arthur's play, r263, so he did get some say as to how *his* character was rendered. If I recall correctly he complained about Booth not wanting to be unlikable.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 266August 14, 2022 8:27 PM

r262, you're inventing a story line ("feeding her hatred") to support your post-hoc claim of relevance. Just move on, please; this is too silly.

by Anonymousreply 267August 14, 2022 8:27 PM

[quote]I, on the other hand, purchased the last dust-jacketed fine copy I could find of the dreaded Dorothy Rodgers' "My Favorite Things," her home decorating and entertaining book.

Please give us some of the highlights! This thread has made me fascinated with Dorothy Rodgers far more than Richard or Mary.

by Anonymousreply 268August 14, 2022 9:18 PM

All MR says about Barbara Barrie is that she was "the female Arthur Laurents." Ouch. The only evidence she gives is that BB held up the cast recording of Company because they were being underpaid for the Pennebaker doc being filmed then.

by Anonymousreply 269August 14, 2022 9:46 PM

I've worked with Barbara Barrie and she was lovely.

by Anonymousreply 270August 14, 2022 9:50 PM

When I encountered her she introduced herself as Barbara Harnick.

by Anonymousreply 271August 14, 2022 10:34 PM

What are you talking about? She hated the guy. Dick Rodgers very clearly did. And Sondheim and Laurents being in in league treated Rodgers lousily during Waltz by all that we know. So continue to read my posts and respond as you clearly find them compelling enough.

by Anonymousreply 272August 14, 2022 10:38 PM

From the book: Moss Hart and Larry Hart were unrelated, though they were both gay, as anyone but Moss's wife, Kitty Carlisle, could tell.

by Anonymousreply 273August 14, 2022 10:49 PM

You think I didn't know?

by Anonymousreply 274August 14, 2022 11:24 PM

Mary says you didn't know, Kitty. Read her book!

by Anonymousreply 275August 15, 2022 12:22 AM

It might also be said that at the time Playwrights Horizons produced Sunday in the Park, it was a huge project for them. If it was not the first new musical they ever produced it was certainly, by far, the biggest and most elaborate. While the theater had had a lot of success producing small modern dress and star-less new plays, this was a whole other ball game.

by Anonymousreply 276August 15, 2022 12:25 AM

Was there any mention of her husband, Henry. When I was in my twenties he picked me up at Harrisburg Airport when he was there to see "Oliver." Had no clue who he was. Saw him several times at my place. Got tired of having to only at certain times on his private line at their apartment. Is Adam gay?

by Anonymousreply 277August 15, 2022 12:31 AM

R77 here. Should have typed "Got tired of having to CALL only at certain hours."

by Anonymousreply 278August 15, 2022 12:34 AM

Quite true--It was a very big deal and something of a risk for Playwrights. Among other reasons to read Lapine's very good book, he goes into some interesting detail about the production end.

by Anonymousreply 279August 15, 2022 12:35 AM

[quote] When I was in my twenties he picked me up at Harrisburg Airport

You make it sound like you were hustling at the airport. How did he pick you up there?

by Anonymousreply 280August 15, 2022 12:36 AM

r277, there are plenty of mentions of Henry. I was left with the impression that he was on the ineffectual side and had some trouble finding his niche. But she clearly loved him and he was good to her. As for Adam, he's had a reputation as a satyr for many years. In an early interview about this book, Jesse Green relates a visit he made to Hank and Mary for an article he was writing about Adam (pre-Light in the Piazza) during which the parents regaled him with stories of Adam's prowess as a swordsman.

by Anonymousreply 281August 15, 2022 12:39 AM

Was was Oliver and why was he playing in Harrisburg?

by Anonymousreply 282August 15, 2022 12:40 AM

Uh, there were rumors about Hank, always. So I think r277 is talking about exactly what r280 thinks he's talking about.

by Anonymousreply 283August 15, 2022 12:42 AM

Yes, and though Mary discusses Henry thoroughly in her book, her first husband Jerry Beaty (a wealthy waspy distant relation of Warren and Shirley) was a far more colorful character and undoubtedly gay, if not out during his marriage. He was the father of her first 3 children.

by Anonymousreply 284August 15, 2022 12:44 AM

R280, I was waiting for a plane to New York after visiting family in 1966. He didn't appear in "Oliver." It wasn't until I read the obit for his three-year-old son that I realized who he was. Never talked about his life except that he was has married with kids. Back then I knew little or nothing about Broadway.

by Anonymousreply 285August 15, 2022 12:47 AM

r285, still not following you. What did you and Henry have to do with a production of Oliver? And how old were you in 1966 (and I thought I was old!)?

by Anonymousreply 286August 15, 2022 12:51 AM

Here are some tidbits in this article about the book. The writer also hints Henrey is gay, but Mary doesn't say so in her book:

[quote] Not that she couldn't enjoy good sex with other gay men who were willing and able.....Among her favorites, her lyricist collaborator Marshall Barer....

[quote] One exception, she admits: Arthur Laurents, "the little shit" book writer for "West Side Story".... Also her first husband, the more closeted, uptight, eventually abusive Princeton grad and attorney Julian B. Beaty Jr., before they divorced and he went his own way in Bridgehampton.

[quote] About her second husband, the late film and theater executive Henry (Hank) Guettel, with whom she lived for 52 years and had three more children (one died at age 3), Mary makes no mention of gay appeal.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 287August 15, 2022 12:58 AM

R286 Re-read the second line for the answers to your questions.

by Anonymousreply 288August 15, 2022 1:05 AM

R284, she makes it clear in the book that she realized about Beaty while they were still married. She doesn't say a word about Henry's sexuality (other than that they fucked) but there were always stories about him. It may be the only part of her life that she was discreet about.

by Anonymousreply 289August 15, 2022 1:34 AM

Marshall Barer was also the lover of Anais Nin! That one took me up short.

by Anonymousreply 290August 15, 2022 1:23 PM

The book could really use an index, but the publisher seems not to have wanted to pay the extra expense.

by Anonymousreply 291August 15, 2022 1:34 PM

I was actually glad the book didn't have an index because I might have rushed ahead to read bits about people I was most interested in. But instead I just read it page to page as intended and savored ever word. It's that good.

Now, having read it, I might like the index in order to go back and read particular excerpts. Oh well. Maybe in its second printing it will get that index?

by Anonymousreply 292August 15, 2022 1:44 PM

That rarely happens. ^ regarding later printings. It's especially vexing because she often hops around chronologically, so there's no clear narrative line. I'm with you in my frustration in trying to look up a specific reference.

by Anonymousreply 293August 15, 2022 1:52 PM

Would it actually be that much more expensive for a book to have an index? Or is not having one some kind of artistic choice?

by Anonymousreply 294August 15, 2022 2:22 PM

There hasn't been a book this hard to find since Madonna's sex book.

At this point, I'll wait for the Kindle release on August 30th.

by Anonymousreply 295August 15, 2022 2:51 PM

I don't think it's ever an artistic choice. Compiling an index is a giant pain in the ass so I'm sure it's a significant expense

by Anonymousreply 296August 15, 2022 2:51 PM

[quote]Does anyone know of any other online bookstores that has it in stock? I thought I had preordered it, but it appears I stupidly just saved it for later in my cart. I went to the Drama Book Shop website and the title wasn’t listed.

Whether or not the book is listed on their website, as I said, I called the Drama Book Shop on the pub date for the Rodgers book and they said they had 50 copies in stock, so I made a trip over there later that day and bought one. I would advise you to call them to see if they still have any in stock, and make sure you spell the name "Rodgers" for them, because I did have a little problem with that.

[quote]Compiling an index is a giant pain in the ass so I'm sure it's a significant expense

I'm pretty sure that compiling an index nowadays is FAR less expensive and difficult than it was in the past, now that we have computers that can search long documents for key words and phrases. How old are you, R296?

by Anonymousreply 297August 15, 2022 3:19 PM

It's already a long book (nearly 500 pages) and by and about a minor theatrical figure. And fairly expensive at $35. I'm guessing an additional expense wouldn't have been greenlit. Perhaps Jesse Green can tell us. Does he post here?

by Anonymousreply 298August 15, 2022 3:41 PM

Usually a non-fiction book of 500 hundred pages gets an index.

Hiring an indexer is not a big expense. The issue is more likely time.

So the absence of an index, the large number of foot notes, and a wait of 8 years after the subject's death points to production problems. I suspect the manuscript was late and for as complex a book as this, something had to give. In this case the index.

by Anonymousreply 299August 15, 2022 6:08 PM

R296. What century are you in? People don't compile indices. Today computers match names with page numbers.

by Anonymousreply 300August 15, 2022 7:39 PM

Isn't it customary for the Kindle version to be released simultaneously with the hardcover version and not almost a month later?

by Anonymousreply 301August 15, 2022 8:07 PM

I'd guess that the publisher didn't want to dilute sales of the hard copy by allowing the e-version to be released simultaneously. Maybe someone on this thread can explain how these things work.

by Anonymousreply 302August 15, 2022 8:14 PM

It seems obvious that the publisher wasn't expecting this book to be such a hit.

by Anonymousreply 303August 16, 2022 6:58 AM

I've purchased numerous books on Kindle that were available the same day as the hardcover version.

by Anonymousreply 304August 16, 2022 9:33 AM

Try to imagine the frenzy when (maybe "if" is the better word) the Sondheim biography ever gets published. Of course we'll all be dead by then.

by Anonymousreply 305August 16, 2022 12:30 PM

I think someone has been working on a bio for some time now. Last name Bernstein, I think?

by Anonymousreply 306August 16, 2022 12:56 PM

His name is David Benedict; he's a Brit--writes a column for The Stage and spends lots of time on Twitter. At one point he said it would be published in 2017. Lord knows what he's projecting now.

by Anonymousreply 307August 16, 2022 1:15 PM

Does this new Sondheim bio purport to have never-revealed-before dish? With named sources??

by Anonymousreply 308August 16, 2022 6:52 PM

I think this one is "authorized," so probably not. But the guy who wrote the big review for the NYT, Daniel Okrent, is supposedly writing one as well. I'm sure there will be scads of memoirs on the way: My Life With Steve, Steve and Me, etc. Some of them I'm sure will be dishy.

by Anonymousreply 309August 16, 2022 7:48 PM

Sundays in the Dungeon With Steve is the one I want to read.

by Anonymousreply 310August 16, 2022 8:04 PM

Waiting for the Boys Downstairs: My Follies with with Steve (a DL publication)

by Anonymousreply 311August 16, 2022 8:07 PM

Hey upstairs You upstairs, Any whips and chains downstairs?

by Anonymousreply 312August 16, 2022 8:11 PM

I would love to see R277's book, "Mary Roger's Husband and Me".

Seriously. R277, you should rush it to print, you can cash in on the spotlight on Mary's book.

by Anonymousreply 313August 17, 2022 5:45 AM

Oh, take a seat, r313.

by Anonymousreply 314August 17, 2022 1:32 PM

[quote]Mary Roger's

Double "oh, dear."

by Anonymousreply 315August 17, 2022 1:56 PM

We're all part of Ms. Rogers' Gayborhood.

by Anonymousreply 316August 20, 2022 9:34 PM

I signed up for the book at the local library. I was put on a waiting list. I didn't even ask how long it was. When it shows up it shows up.

by Anonymousreply 317August 20, 2022 11:24 PM

On a waiting list for a library book... that is so sad.

by Anonymousreply 318August 21, 2022 12:04 AM

[quote]On a waiting list for a library book... that is so sad.

Huh? I've got a dozen reserved e-books in my queue, titles I will never read twice. If I read an interesting review I just add the book to the queue and forget about it.

I'm never out of new reads, and when they show up, sometimes weeks later, it's a pleasant little surprise in the day.

by Anonymousreply 319August 21, 2022 12:08 AM

Another fan of reserving library books. Libraries are vital. They don’t deserve our scorn.

by Anonymousreply 320August 21, 2022 1:33 AM

R320 — agreed, especially with all the book banning that’s now going on.

by Anonymousreply 321August 21, 2022 7:18 AM

But let's get back to Mary!

by Anonymousreply 322August 21, 2022 2:08 PM

r319, I'm confused. Why do you have to wait for an e-book? Can't your library send it to you when you request it? Or are these books on your queue ones that haven't yet come out in e-book form?

by Anonymousreply 323August 21, 2022 2:11 PM

The review's description of footnotes "which enrich the pages of “Shy” like butter on a steak" is disproportionately irritating to me

by Anonymousreply 324August 21, 2022 2:27 PM

Is it because your doctor told you to stop eating butter and red meat or you'll die?

by Anonymousreply 325August 21, 2022 2:52 PM

Is Dolores Gray mentioned at all? Was she one of Richard Rodgers' bedmates? Dolores was one of Mary Martin's proteges, which made me wonder if she was a daughter or Sappho.

by Anonymousreply 326August 21, 2022 3:14 PM

*daughter of Sappho

by Anonymousreply 327August 21, 2022 3:14 PM

Dot Gray had a face for clam!

by Anonymousreply 328August 21, 2022 3:51 PM

R323, because they have a limited number of ebooks and all of them are out.

They cannot just make up their own copies of ebooks.

by Anonymousreply 329August 21, 2022 3:59 PM

Yes, Mary seemed to have a thing for Dolores. That didn't seem to be featured in the latest Martin bio.

by Anonymousreply 330August 22, 2022 4:32 AM

Mary!

by Anonymousreply 331August 22, 2022 5:08 AM

Who is protecting Mary Martin's public hetero face? Larry's kids?

by Anonymousreply 332August 22, 2022 3:16 PM

Martin had big Top energy.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 333August 22, 2022 3:18 PM

I doubt it needs much protection these days when hardly anyone knows or remembers who she was.

by Anonymousreply 334August 22, 2022 3:18 PM

Well, a few years ago, one of the Hello Dolly cast members (Minnie Fae, I think) outed Martin in an episode of "Theater Talk." The episode only stayed up on YouTube for a matter of days.

by Anonymousreply 335August 22, 2022 3:20 PM

Wow, I'm surprised. Thanks for the correction, r335.

by Anonymousreply 336August 22, 2022 3:37 PM

Yes, Sondra Lee, r335. Having seen her in person around then, I think she's losing a screw or two.

by Anonymousreply 337August 22, 2022 3:42 PM

Here's a recent Sondra Lee interview.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 338August 22, 2022 3:56 PM

I’m gonna hold “layered as lasagna” against him for a long time.

by Anonymousreply 339August 22, 2022 3:57 PM

Did that man really think the person at 2:11 is Carol Channing, r338?!

by Anonymousreply 340August 22, 2022 5:57 PM

[quote]Well, a few years ago, one of the Hello Dolly cast members (Minnie Fae, I think) outed Martin in an episode of "Theater Talk."

Perhaps you're thinking of Sally Mae.

by Anonymousreply 341August 22, 2022 7:30 PM

Considering she is a part of Broadway history during the golden age I was very disappointed in Lee's autobio. A very superficial quick read. She knew so many people and was in some big hits so it should have been a long inside history of that period.

by Anonymousreply 342August 22, 2022 8:11 PM

What age was she when she wrote it?

by Anonymousreply 343August 22, 2022 8:31 PM

Other than Peter Pan and Hello, Dolly! what would Sondra Lee have to write about?

by Anonymousreply 344August 22, 2022 9:10 PM

[quote]Other than Peter Pan and Hello, Dolly! what would Sondra Lee have to write about?

"Hotel Paradiso" and "High Button Shoes"?

by Anonymousreply 345August 22, 2022 9:30 PM

Well she has another book coming out so I hope there is some interesting stuff there. That interview above is really good. I envy the New York she knew. People who I knew who were going to New York during that period(they are mostly gone) sounded like they had a lot of fun. And here she went one step further by having success on Broadway and then being allowed into that inner sanctum of knowing personally all these amazing people and considering some of them not only colleagues but friends. And it was all so affordable! Like Joe Papp going on a school trip to see Gielgud in Hamlet or Bacall sitting in the top balcony of the Shubert to see Philadelphia Story.

by Anonymousreply 346August 22, 2022 9:43 PM

Did Sondra Lee know Sandra Dee?

by Anonymousreply 347August 23, 2022 12:01 AM

[quote]Did Sondra Lee know Sandra Dee?

I don't know either of them.

by Anonymousreply 348August 23, 2022 12:28 AM

How about PINKY Lee?

by Anonymousreply 349August 23, 2022 12:31 AM

And Peggy Lee.

by Anonymousreply 350August 23, 2022 1:57 AM

That's MISS Peggy Lee to you!

by Anonymousreply 351August 23, 2022 2:02 AM

I held off on reading this because I was finishing the astonishingly boring Meryl Secrest biography of the astonishingly boring Richard Rodgers. But wow. The first chapter is like a time machine jolting back to post-war New York. Well done.

by Anonymousreply 352August 23, 2022 2:46 AM

You're in for a treat, r352. Mary is never boring.

by Anonymousreply 353August 23, 2022 5:20 AM

Meryl Secrest is a terrible writer.

All her books are boring.

by Anonymousreply 354August 23, 2022 10:42 AM

Her Sondheim biography was a slog. Hoping the new one will be better, if the biographer ever gets off Twitter long enough to write it.

by Anonymousreply 355August 23, 2022 1:36 PM

Well, the new biographer will have a lot more material to work with, now that SS is gone.

by Anonymousreply 356August 23, 2022 1:47 PM

I wonder if there are any dungeon (former) twinks left?

by Anonymousreply 357August 23, 2022 1:54 PM

Oh, give it a rest, r357.

by Anonymousreply 358August 23, 2022 1:57 PM

I'm Meryle with an E, and my books are scintillating, bitches.

by Anonymousreply 359August 23, 2022 6:02 PM

Interesting how little of this thread is about Mary.

by Anonymousreply 360August 23, 2022 7:37 PM

I wonder if she said more about Barbara Barrie but it was edited out.

by Anonymousreply 361August 23, 2022 7:44 PM

Meryle IS a lousy writer. I couldn't believe she wrote a book on Sondheim. I avoided it. She writes like she's writing in the late 60s about an old Hollywood star. Those awful books you find in paperback in piles of used books.

by Anonymousreply 362August 23, 2022 7:59 PM

There must have been Mary's details of Barbara Barrie's bitchiness but as the bitch is still alive, Jesse Green had to avoid a lawsuit and kept it brief.

Which makes me wonder....not that Mary isn't worshipful of Sondheim, but as many of the details of their relationship are rather intimate, did Mary insist that her book couldn't be published until after Sondheim's death? The timing was rather perfect after all. Has Green commented on that?

by Anonymousreply 363August 24, 2022 12:37 AM

The only comment I can recall (and I can't find it anywhere, although I know it was in an early print interview) was Green saying, specifically in regard to the "trial marriage" story, that he had fact checked that and other material with Sondheim. Although his mind/memory was razor sharp on nearly everything, he said he had no recollection of the trial marriage. I'm sure that's not the case, but really what could he say about it?

He discussed it very briefly in the Secrest bio. Mary told the story and he elaborated--basically saying that he didn't recall it being anything formal or heavy.

by Anonymousreply 364August 24, 2022 1:25 AM

I'm also sorry that Mary never weighs in on Steve's work. What did she think of Follies? Merrily? Passion? God knows she must have had strong opinions of everything she saw.

by Anonymousreply 365August 24, 2022 1:48 AM

Here's hoping we get a sequel to Mary's bio!

Oh....wait.

by Anonymousreply 366August 24, 2022 1:57 AM

I loved the book but I think really too much is being made about this supposed "trial marriage." It's a selling point for the book, of course, and it naturally gets mentioned in all the reviews, but Mary really doesn't give it that many paragraphs, much less chapters.

by Anonymousreply 367August 24, 2022 2:01 AM

True, and she walks back the "trial marriage" descriptor. But I'm sure it did a lot for book sales.

by Anonymousreply 368August 24, 2022 2:15 AM

Yeah, there's nothing the population is more eager to read about than how Sondheim and Rodgers didn't have sex.

by Anonymousreply 369August 24, 2022 3:46 AM

I'd rather read that they didn't have sex than read that they did.

by Anonymousreply 370August 24, 2022 4:12 AM

I can imagine str8s getting a kick out of reading about Sondheim's efforts at a het life.

by Anonymousreply 371August 24, 2022 4:15 AM

Does Mary comment on Lee Remick, who Sondheim really did seem to possibly consider as a lover and maybe a wife?

by Anonymousreply 372August 24, 2022 4:31 AM

As if Sondheim had the option to consider Lee Remick as a lover...

by Anonymousreply 373August 24, 2022 4:45 AM

Sondheim and Remick were a popular couple on the New York social scene for a long time, and contrary to the version that he proposed to her, she proposed to him and he thought it over for a long time before turning her down. They remained close friends until her death.

by Anonymousreply 374August 24, 2022 4:50 AM

Do you have actual knowledge of this, r374, or are you paraphrasing Secrest?

by Anonymousreply 375August 24, 2022 1:09 PM

I think Mary R says the same about Steve and Lee. Of course, if there was an index in the damn book I'd look it up for you, r375!

Mary's stories aren't always told strictly chronologically either so it makes the need for an index even more important. I do wonder if the book is a huge financial success if the publisher will spring for an index in reprintings? Or was the lack of an index something Mary stipulated?

by Anonymousreply 376August 24, 2022 1:31 PM

Someone in an article/interview once said that Steve had said he couldn't marry Lee because he couldn't live dishonestly. Sounds about right--he seems clearly to have been in love with her.

by Anonymousreply 377August 24, 2022 1:36 PM

If he were in love with her, he wouldn't be living dishonestly...

Y'all are just creaming yourselves over the shiksha goddess (you cold treat like a Barbie).

by Anonymousreply 378August 24, 2022 1:46 PM

*you could

by Anonymousreply 379August 24, 2022 1:46 PM

I saw Remick at the closing night of Merrily. Strangely enough I also saw Barabara Feldon there.

by Anonymousreply 380August 24, 2022 1:51 PM

Why would Remick propose to him? Is she a lesbian?

by Anonymousreply 381August 24, 2022 3:57 PM

No. Maybe she had enough of philandering husbands. At least Sondheim kept his sex life in house. Or in dungeon.

by Anonymousreply 382August 24, 2022 4:05 PM

Green said in an interview that Mary didn't want an index; she wanted to keep readers from looking up references to specific people instead of reading from start to finish.

by Anonymousreply 383August 24, 2022 5:59 PM

[quote]Why would Remick propose to him? Is she a lesbian?

She's dead, so she's not anything now.

by Anonymousreply 384August 24, 2022 7:20 PM

Maybe she wasn't that sexually driven and was tired of all these men trying to jump her. Having a husband({a kind of protection against these leches) who was a compassionate though idiosyncratic person and great company was more important to her. Though was she aware of how strong his sexual drive was and how it would interfere in their private life? When it comes to marriage people can be very delusional.

by Anonymousreply 385August 24, 2022 11:44 PM

Lee Remick fucked JFK.

by Anonymousreply 386August 25, 2022 1:40 AM

Who didn't, R386?

by Anonymousreply 387August 25, 2022 2:17 AM

R385 is inventing fan fiction. What do you know about his sex drive or what was important to Remick.

by Anonymousreply 388August 25, 2022 2:25 AM

You can't base your idea of Lee Remick on her roles in "Anatomy of a Murder" or her incredible baton twirling routine in "A Face in the Crowd", though she was great in both.

by Anonymousreply 389August 25, 2022 4:07 AM

R389, Lee Remick replaced Lana Turner in "Anatomy of a Murder".

Lana fought with director Otto Preminger over her character's wardrobe.

Lana wanted glamorous clothes, Otto thought otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 390August 25, 2022 9:34 AM

I started off with maybe. Look up the definition of the word.

And I'm older than Moses. Back in the 70s Sondheim's intense sexual proclivities even then were the talk of the town.

by Anonymousreply 391August 25, 2022 11:21 AM

Great, r 391. Maybe they'll be described in his biography. Whatever "intense sexual proclivities" might be.

by Anonymousreply 392August 25, 2022 12:29 PM

Finger gucks.

by Anonymousreply 393August 25, 2022 1:42 PM

His intense sexual proclivities have been discussed on DL forever. You must have missed all the theatrical threads and anything to do with Sondheim. It was gossip decades before there was ever an internet. Now it may not be true but it has had staying power for more than half a century. And when you consider that his mother treated him with disdain and even hated him his entire life it makes a lot of sense.

by Anonymousreply 394August 25, 2022 4:27 PM

The Kindle version is now being released tomorrow, August 26th.

by Anonymousreply 395August 25, 2022 4:38 PM

"Now it may not be true..." You're certainly right about that, R394.

In any case, the phrase "intense sexual proclivities" makes zero sense, and I guess I must have missed whatever gossip you're talking about. But thanks for being a jerk about it.

by Anonymousreply 396August 25, 2022 5:12 PM

I'm guessing that the Kindle release of SHY will really boost this thread. Looking forward to hearing more thoughts on Mary!

by Anonymousreply 397August 25, 2022 5:35 PM

I think the alternate titles were better.

by Anonymousreply 398August 25, 2022 5:36 PM

R396, proclivity means "a tendency to choose or do something regularly; an inclination or predisposition toward a particular thing," and I should hope I don't have to define "intense" for you. So I don't understand why you think the phrase makes "zero sense." If anyone here is a jerk, it's you -- for somehow missing decades of gossip about Sondheim's sexual proclivities, and for other reasons as well.

by Anonymousreply 399August 25, 2022 5:36 PM

[Quote] Looking forward to hearing more thoughts on people Mary! talked about.

Fixed.

by Anonymousreply 400August 25, 2022 5:36 PM

I have no difficulty with definitions but rather in your awkward and essentially meaningless combination of the words. I can't think how missing decades of gossip makes me or anyone a jerk, but your snottiness certainly makes you one.

by Anonymousreply 401August 25, 2022 5:41 PM

R401, I'm not the person you were attacking, I'm someone else who recognizes you for what you are. You're not necessarily a jerk for missing decades of gossip, but you most assuredly are a jerk for your attitude that, because YOU somehow missed it, well, it never happened. Also, since you haven't explained why you feel the phrase "intense sexual proclivities" makes no sense, I'm going to assume you are unable to do so.

by Anonymousreply 402August 25, 2022 5:49 PM

Some people get very pissy when the dungeon is mentioned, which is odd as the rumors have never involved lack of consent.

by Anonymousreply 403August 25, 2022 6:12 PM

Not pissy, BORED. There are rarely any actual rumors about Sondheim's actual activities, just repeated references to BDSM. It's a stale joke that comes up on every Sondheim thread. Those who have the most detail have pointed out that it was likely Anthony Perkins' fetish more than Sondheim's.

by Anonymousreply 404August 25, 2022 6:20 PM

Capital letters read pissy.

by Anonymousreply 405August 25, 2022 7:13 PM

Thank you R402. I'm the guy that R404.is responding to. Not only does he fail to understand a very simple phrase he likes to call other people names. Let him.

by Anonymousreply 406August 26, 2022 2:22 AM

No, no, r406. I'm the guy you're mad at, not 404 who I think may be new to this ridiculous discussion.

And thanks for the permission to call you names.

by Anonymousreply 407August 26, 2022 1:31 PM

Anyone know how the Kindle edition handles the fucking footnotes?

by Anonymousreply 408August 26, 2022 2:38 PM

R408, do you not like the footnotes in the hard-copy version? Most people, myself included, seem to love them.

by Anonymousreply 409August 26, 2022 2:45 PM

footnotes are linked individually in the text.

by Anonymousreply 410August 26, 2022 2:50 PM

R410, Via blue links that you can either access or ignore.

by Anonymousreply 411August 26, 2022 3:34 PM

Here's a sample of Mary Rodgers' candor.

"Mary Martin was then one of Broadway’s two biggest stars, the other being Ethel Merman. Having helped make South Pacific such a monster hit, and soon to do the same with The Sound of Music, she had long been close to Daddy—though not in that way, as far as I know. In fact, there were rumors she was a lesbian; Dick, her second husband, was one of the gayest people I ever met in my life, which is saying something. In any case, she was a riveting performer, charming and ageless; not many people could pull off playing the postulate Maria, who is supposed to be twenty-two, at forty-five. Offstage, she was always fun and good- humored and worked terribly hard, but was a little bit saccharine, as if covering something; you never really knew what she was thinking. That was apparently part of the marital deal. There was a saying about the Hallidays: Mary makes the bullets, Dick fires them. I could believe it. Dick was a nasty piece of work, and an alcoholic, with all the concomitant ailments, including long bony fingers that shook."

by Anonymousreply 412August 26, 2022 3:36 PM

Well, Mary Martin had one gay husband and Mary Rodgers had two.

by Anonymousreply 413August 26, 2022 3:39 PM

[quote] ageless; not many people could pull off playing the postulate Maria, who is supposed to be twenty-two, at forty-five.

Mary Rogers must be blind. Mary Martin looked 57.

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by Anonymousreply 414August 26, 2022 4:04 PM

Not when an orchestra was between you and her face.

by Anonymousreply 415August 26, 2022 4:21 PM

Still would have given anything to have seen Martin play Maria live.

by Anonymousreply 416August 26, 2022 4:32 PM

An audio recording of Martin's final performance in THE SOUND OF MUSIC exists. Believe it or not, and sad to say, she's indescribably bad in it, as she alternates between acting ridiculously coy in some scenes and playing the grande dame in others. Maybe she was better when the show opened, and she miscalculated badly in overacting to the nth degree during the final performance, but whatever the reason, her line readings have not a moment of truth in them.

by Anonymousreply 417August 26, 2022 4:55 PM

Merman is very good in the closing night (?) audio of GYPSY. That "Don't you answer the phone while I'm yelling at you" line is perfect for her.

by Anonymousreply 418August 26, 2022 4:57 PM

R413, Which is probably why she added "which is saying something.".

by Anonymousreply 419August 26, 2022 5:16 PM

It's true that Richard Halliday was disliked by many.

Stepson Larry Hagman despised him.

by Anonymousreply 420August 26, 2022 5:19 PM

[quote]That "Don't you answer the phone while I'm yelling at you" line is perfect for her.

When Patti said that line, were people sure it was part of the scene, or did she think she was yelling at an audience member?

by Anonymousreply 421August 26, 2022 5:23 PM

I've heard that recording, r417, and it's not nearly what you say. She is simply being Martin, and that seemed to please a great many people in her career. And seeing her live was a revelation.

by Anonymousreply 422August 26, 2022 5:57 PM

Is the recording on YouTube?

by Anonymousreply 423August 26, 2022 6:15 PM

[quote]I've heard that recording, [R417], and it's not nearly what you say. She is simply being Martin, and that seemed to please a great many people in her career.

I'm entitled to my opinion of that performance, judging only from the audio, and I find it horrendously bad and completely insincere. The way she says lines like "I can make my own clothes" on that recording, she sounds like someone doing a very wicked impersonation of Mary in a Forbidden Broadway skit.

by Anonymousreply 424August 26, 2022 6:47 PM

From the book . . .

Mary ended her affair with Hal Prince because he smelled like a dirty wash rag.

Leonard Bernstein HATED Sweeney Todd, thought it was a disgusting premise for a Broadway musical.

Carol Burnett was not first choice for Once Upon a Mattress.

The show was written for Nancy Walker, but then the producers wanted Pat Carroll.

Then they saw Carol Burnett on the Ed Sullivan Show and were convinced she'd be perfect.

When Mattress opened in London, Jane Connell was the star, but it was a huge flop.

by Anonymousreply 425August 26, 2022 6:54 PM

Well, r425, what Mary Rodgers actually says in the book (and I'm wildly paraphrasing and adding a bit more thetaer history) is that George Abbott had it in his head that MATTRESS was a musical that needed to showcase a new and as yet undiscovered sensation...and that was before he'd even heard of Carol Burnett. He felt that Nancy Walker, who was coming off a couple of Broadway flops, was too old and a boring and tired choice. And he had discovered Walker for BEST FOOT FORWARD in 1942 and then directed her again in ON THE TOWN in 1944. And he was right.

They only considered Pat Carroll (who wasn't much younger than Nancy) when they weren't finding anyone new and great. But then Carol was seen by Abbott on TV on a few different variety shows famously singing "I Made a Fool of Myself Over John Foster Dulles" and the rest is history.

by Anonymousreply 426August 26, 2022 7:06 PM

It's been reported by many—including his daughter—that Bernstein badmouthed SWEENEY because he was so incredibly jealous of its success.

by Anonymousreply 427August 26, 2022 7:52 PM

R426, And just how does that dispute anything I posted? You're such an asswipe, seriously.

by Anonymousreply 428August 26, 2022 7:58 PM

R407 Why do you need my permission? You'll do it anyway. And I'm sure you found it compelling to join in a ridiculous discussion.

by Anonymousreply 429August 26, 2022 9:05 PM

I'd like to know more about Mary Martin's protege business. Did she teach/scout while out in Hollywood?

by Anonymousreply 430August 26, 2022 10:01 PM

r425, where in my post do I dispute anything you said, you thin-skinned twerp? I simply elaborated on the info in your meager contribution. I'm here to have a real conversation. Sorry if that intimidates you.

by Anonymousreply 431August 26, 2022 10:34 PM

Girls, girls!

by Anonymousreply 432August 26, 2022 10:35 PM

[quote]I'd like to know more about Mary Martin's protege business.

It was no Desilu Playhouse, doll.

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by Anonymousreply 433August 26, 2022 10:37 PM

Was it female centred?

by Anonymousreply 434August 26, 2022 10:38 PM

R431 is well known on DL for her moronic posts.

by Anonymousreply 435August 26, 2022 10:52 PM

John Gielgud's letters on the Sound of Music are very funny. He came to a final dress and left at intermission because he thought it was so awful. He talks about how ridiculous Mary Martin looked playing a character she was decades too old for.

In other letters, he expresses great love for Gypsy and wanted to direct the London production. He does note that there is not a lot of male beauty on display in that show though.

by Anonymousreply 436August 27, 2022 11:41 PM

What age was Gielgud when he last played Hamlet?

by Anonymousreply 437August 27, 2022 11:53 PM

[Quote] He does note that there is not a lot of male beauty on display in that show though.

The man who directed the Leicester production with Caroline O'Connor clearly thought the same.

by Anonymousreply 438August 27, 2022 11:54 PM

And r436, exactly how many letters did he write about this very short visit?

by Anonymousreply 439August 28, 2022 12:10 AM

Maria Von Trapp was no fan of Sound Of Music either. She thought it was sentimental twaddle.

by Anonymousreply 440August 28, 2022 12:15 AM

John Gielgud, the man who was fired from directing IRENE starring Debbie Reynolds on Broadway?

by Anonymousreply 441August 28, 2022 12:15 AM

R440 But then, she was the cuntiest cunt that ever cunted.

by Anonymousreply 442August 28, 2022 12:47 AM

True, R442, but then so was Rose Hovick. A little more vinegar and a helluva lot less treacle would have made for a more substantial show.

by Anonymousreply 443August 28, 2022 1:01 AM

And a movie flopl probably.

by Anonymousreply 444August 28, 2022 1:10 AM

*flop,

by Anonymousreply 445August 28, 2022 1:10 AM

He wrote about 4 or 5 letters, R439. It is one of the best sequences in the book.

First he writes about how bad he thought the show was with children and nuns---and how ridiculous Mary Martin was in the role.

Then in another letter, we find out that he left and intermission and was seen doing so.

Then more letters about how upset people were with him.

Then he describes apologizing to Martin and the producers for leaving before the second act.

by Anonymousreply 446August 28, 2022 5:03 AM

Gielgud couldn't stomach "The Sound of Music," but took a paycheck to appear in the immortal musical "Lost Horizon."

by Anonymousreply 447August 28, 2022 5:58 AM

There were two national tours of Mattress, one with Dody Goodman and Buster Keaton as the King and one with Imogene Coca and Edward Everett Horton as the King. They both got great reviews. The Goodman production also featured Harold Lang as The Jester.

Ann B. Davis replaced Burnett for the final week of the Broadway run. I don't know why.

by Anonymousreply 448August 28, 2022 7:17 AM

The show quickly closed after Ann B joined the cast.

by Anonymousreply 449August 28, 2022 1:20 PM

The London production starring Jane Connell ran for only 24 performances.

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by Anonymousreply 450August 28, 2022 1:52 PM

The Londoners unfavorably compared MATTRESS to their yearly pantos. They'd apparently seen it all done before and better. Mary said Jane Connell struggled for laughs that Carol Burnett could achieve by just a raised eyebrow.

But I wonder if Carol Burnett was ever cherished as much in the UK as in the US? Any Brits here to confirm?

by Anonymousreply 451August 28, 2022 1:57 PM

Maybe they should have got Dora Bryan.

by Anonymousreply 452August 28, 2022 2:05 PM

r451 She's barely known in the UK

by Anonymousreply 453August 28, 2022 2:16 PM

[quote] Maybe they should have got Dora Bryan.

Or Dora Hall.

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by Anonymousreply 454August 28, 2022 5:12 PM

Once Upon A Mattress is going to be the title of my memoir.

by Anonymousreply 455August 28, 2022 5:17 PM

That clip of Sarah Jessica Parker at the Tonys is painful. She is serving up some awkward, community theater hamminess.

by Anonymousreply 456August 28, 2022 5:33 PM

I was looking forward to reading it be many of the reviews on Amazon are surprisingly negative. They said the book is tedious and repetitive. So now I'm not sure I want to bother.

by Anonymousreply 457August 28, 2022 5:34 PM

If you look closely at the negative reviews, you'll notice they are all posted by Barbara Barrie.

by Anonymousreply 458August 28, 2022 5:36 PM

Who should have got the revival instead of SJP?

by Anonymousreply 459August 28, 2022 5:41 PM

Lea DeLaria

by Anonymousreply 460August 28, 2022 5:43 PM

Tracey Ullman or Andrea Martin.

by Anonymousreply 461August 28, 2022 5:48 PM

Tracey had her shot, r461.

by Anonymousreply 462August 28, 2022 5:59 PM

Andrea isn't leading lady, r461.

by Anonymousreply 463August 28, 2022 6:00 PM

[quote]Mary said Jane Connell struggled for laughs that Carol Burnett could achieve by just a raised eyebrow.

How would a raised eyebrow register in the second balcony?

by Anonymousreply 464August 28, 2022 6:25 PM

[quote]Andrea isn't leading lady

I beg to differ.

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by Anonymousreply 465August 28, 2022 6:26 PM

Because no one ever wanted to come back for twice, R455.

by Anonymousreply 466August 28, 2022 7:00 PM

This is enormously entertaining, but also pretty sad. She clearly had intelligence and talent, but the culture and her own artistic and personal blocks kept her from success. She overinvested in the art and the lives of other people to her own detriment. When she said Sondheim was the love of her life, even though they were personally and sexually incompatible, it just crushed me.

by Anonymousreply 467August 29, 2022 5:53 PM

Not a day goes by, r467, not a single day...

by Anonymousreply 468August 29, 2022 5:56 PM

R467, Does the love of your life have to be sexual?

by Anonymousreply 469August 29, 2022 5:58 PM

Well if it's not you're wasting your time.

by Anonymousreply 470August 29, 2022 6:04 PM

Those negative reviews on Amazon are being ghost written by Arthur Laurents.

by Anonymousreply 471August 29, 2022 6:05 PM

R471, Or Jeff Romley.

by Anonymousreply 472August 29, 2022 6:52 PM

She was quite the roundheels.

by Anonymousreply 473August 29, 2022 8:54 PM

She strikes me as having lived a pretty joyless life.

by Anonymousreply 474August 29, 2022 9:42 PM

I'm supposed to cry a river for Mary Rodgers? She managed two successful projects (Mattress, Freaky Friday) that continued to pay over the decades.

by Anonymousreply 475August 29, 2022 10:00 PM

[quote]She clearly had intelligence and talent, but the culture and her own artistic and personal blocks kept her from success.

Her book is on the NY Times best seller list, which seems pretty "successful" to me.

by Anonymousreply 476August 29, 2022 10:20 PM

Poor Mary Rodgers.

by Anonymousreply 477August 29, 2022 10:38 PM

R474, I'll take her life over yours.

by Anonymousreply 478August 29, 2022 10:41 PM

Mary and Steve collaborated several times, most famously in "The Mad Show," an off Broadway revue based on Mad Magazine. Linda Lavin sang "The Boy From..." with Mary's music a parody of "The Girl from Ipanema" and Steve's lyrics.... well.... it's sung by a girl who can't figure out why her boyfriend seems distant.

Why are his trousers vermilion?

Why does he claim he's Castilian?

Why do his friends call him Lillian?"

by Anonymousreply 479August 29, 2022 10:48 PM

I'm not suggesting she's entitled to pity. Just that she seems to have taken very little joy in her life.

by Anonymousreply 480August 29, 2022 10:50 PM

She was a Jewish mother.

by Anonymousreply 481August 29, 2022 10:52 PM

She sounds really negative, and she doesn't seem to like anybody very much. She was fairly vicious about Paul Heller, the guy she was going to marry until Sondheim talked her out of it....twice referred to the little pearl ring he gave her in a really sneering way. And of course she's pretty circumspect about Hank G., but it must have stung to end up married to a bisexual when she would gladly have chosen a committed homosexual.

by Anonymousreply 482August 29, 2022 10:58 PM

[Quote] it must have stung to end up married to a bisexual

Tell me about it.

by Anonymousreply 483August 29, 2022 11:02 PM

Well when you're not loved by either parent and they are both nightmares there's going to be a good chance you're not going to find much joy in life. And then the man you deeply love you can't have... I know the feeling all too well.

by Anonymousreply 484August 29, 2022 11:04 PM

Lucie Arnaz's husband is bi?

by Anonymousreply 485August 29, 2022 11:06 PM

r479 see r42.

by Anonymousreply 486August 29, 2022 11:14 PM

R485, Not when he was married to me.

by Anonymousreply 487August 30, 2022 12:37 AM

I can't tell if some of the recent posters are stupid trolls or just haven't read the book.

I never felt Mary felt sorry for herself, even with her cold parents (who she really talks about in complex detail, great giving them their due when earned) and she never asks the reader for sympathy and readily admits to the privileges she was born into. And, in my interpretation, anyway, she comes off as a woman who thoroughly enjoyed her life, her career successes and even some of her failures, whether they were an early ill-advised marriage or a disappointing show. It was all grist for the mill for a bright woman who lived her life in a glorious era and took advantage of every moment.

IMHO, anyone reading the book who comes away with a disdainful view about how Mary lived her life must be leading a pretty desperate existence.

by Anonymousreply 488August 30, 2022 12:44 AM

[quote]I can't tell if some of the recent posters are stupid trolls or just haven't read the book.

Yes you can, r488.

by Anonymousreply 489August 30, 2022 12:49 AM

Well said, r488. I left the book feeling that it would have been fun to know her. And Green's interview about their writing process and many meetings confirm that she could be lots of fun.

by Anonymousreply 490August 30, 2022 1:22 AM

[quote]Her book is on the NY Times best seller list, which seems pretty "successful" to me.

No doubt she's really enjoying this belated success.

by Anonymousreply 491August 30, 2022 1:29 AM

on SP...

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by Anonymousreply 492August 30, 2022 3:47 AM

It has long been whispered around town that Mary was inappropriate with Adam in a similar vein to Foxy and Steve.

by Anonymousreply 493August 30, 2022 6:04 AM

R493, Her father was a disgusting pig when it came to young women.

Richard Rodgers made Harvey Weinstein look like a boy scout.

Mary nearly confirms the rumor that he fucked Diahann Carroll. She wrote that her father couldn't keep his hands off Diahann whenever they were together.

by Anonymousreply 494August 30, 2022 7:38 AM

Mary neither confirms nor denies that affair. She says she doesn't know. and given her candor in the book about his numerous affairs, no reason to think she'd lie about it here.

by Anonymousreply 495August 30, 2022 1:13 PM

Like R493 really knows what's "whispered around town," let alone what happened between Foxy and Steve.

by Anonymousreply 496August 30, 2022 1:54 PM

This thread is lousy with outright fabrications in addition to the fruit of overactive imaginations.

by Anonymousreply 497August 30, 2022 2:08 PM

Well, the "fruit" part is a given.

by Anonymousreply 498August 30, 2022 2:12 PM

R495 obviously has no reading comprehension abilities, as she has displayed in her numerous posts. What do you think the word "nearly" connotes, genius?

Mary clearly states in the book that her father could not keep his hands off of Diahann whenever they were together, even in front of others, leading Mary and the reader to assume that they were intimate.

by Anonymousreply 499August 30, 2022 2:22 PM

Surprised no one has posted this. DL faves Barbara Cook and Bobby Short sing on Larry King's tribute to Rodgers & Hart. Mary Rodgers' offhand comments and reactions to Barbara brilliantly stretching her voice to the limit to accommodate Bobby's piano playing are priceless. Despite the choppy editing, it's a thrilling performance with some of Barbara's best singing ever. You won't see something like this on TV today.

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by Anonymousreply 500August 30, 2022 3:54 PM

Thanks! Her early Rodgers & Hart album is one I consider perfect.

by Anonymousreply 501August 30, 2022 4:59 PM

And Bobby Short is pretty swell himself.

by Anonymousreply 502August 30, 2022 5:03 PM

Just reading this now and it's a hoot and a half.

by Anonymousreply 503August 31, 2022 5:11 AM

Just finished - this is a work of art for which both Rodgers and Green deserve a great deal of credit. She was an imperfect person, who covered up her imperfections by being completely open about them. The last two chapters are an incredibly moving consideration of mortality, of both Mary Rodgers and the hyper sophisticated world she inhabited.

by Anonymousreply 504August 31, 2022 2:26 PM

My library system (in Los Angeles) just got ONE digital copy of this. I had requested they buy it about a month ago, and when you do that, they tell you that if/when they do purchase it, you'll automatically go on the waiting list. I am #54 and there is a 6 month wait.

by Anonymousreply 505August 31, 2022 3:34 PM

You can get a used copy on Amazon for $6 with free shipping. If that's too much for you, then perhaps you need to stop going to Starbucks every day.

by Anonymousreply 506August 31, 2022 3:45 PM

Disregard that last post. I was looking at the wrong book. But the Kindle version is only $17.

by Anonymousreply 507August 31, 2022 3:47 PM

This is the eye of the DL hurricane.

Mary Rodgers cowrites a parody of "The Girl from Ipanema" with Stephen Sondheim and it's performed by.....

Linda fucking Lavin, ladies and gentlemen.

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by Anonymousreply 508August 31, 2022 3:47 PM

r508 It gets much better. There was an article on one of the trades websites announcing the virtual concert they had for Sondheim's 90th. Linda posted in the comments practically begging to perform. And she did.

by Anonymousreply 509August 31, 2022 3:54 PM

It was Deadline, found it

[quote]this is very exciting!! i’m wondering if you’d like me to sing “ the boy from…” from the mad show.. it’s linda lavin

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by Anonymousreply 510August 31, 2022 4:01 PM

There is no end to Mary's cuntery!

She even snarks over ole' Scarsdale Jean Harris!

by Anonymousreply 511August 31, 2022 8:23 PM

She’s as cunty as her nemesis Arthur Laurents. Just more fun.

by Anonymousreply 512August 31, 2022 10:00 PM

She was not his sordid equal, r512. People genuinely loved her and mourned her. Laurents died, abandoned by his friends because he abused and alienated every one of them.

by Anonymousreply 513August 31, 2022 10:16 PM

R513, Ya got that right.

by Anonymousreply 514August 31, 2022 10:40 PM

Did Arthur poke Matt in the cooter?

by Anonymousreply 515August 31, 2022 11:54 PM

Mary thought Arthur's partner was even worse than he was!

by Anonymousreply 516September 1, 2022 7:10 AM

Yes, but she never said why. And she seems not to have commented on either Sondheim's partner in the 90s or on his husband. Odd.

by Anonymousreply 517September 1, 2022 1:05 PM

Probably because both men are still alive.

by Anonymousreply 518September 1, 2022 1:27 PM

Considering all of the celebrities Mary knew well, who are NOT mentioned in her book, she was actually relatively discreet. I would imagine she had strong (and probably very interesting) opinions on all of them.

Nevertheless, this will always be considered a show biz memoir for the ages. Among many things, I'm most impressed with Mary's depictions of her struggles getting jobs and working in the theater even with all of her connections. She readily admits how her family and famous friends could ultimately only get her so far.

And I was also enchanted with her memories of her first professional job as a teenaged apprentice at Westport Playhouse, describing how she felt she'd finally found her real family with young (and older) like-minded people and what a revelation it was after a rather dull youth. How many of us going into the theater had similar epiphanies?

by Anonymousreply 519September 1, 2022 2:09 PM

Well, either she was relatively discreet or Jesse Green was smart enough to have a lawyer go through the draft with a red pencil. As someone just now suggested, some people may not be mentioned in the book because they're still alive.. The result is pretty tame.

by Anonymousreply 520September 1, 2022 2:15 PM

I always suspected Daddy had his way with Shirley Jones.

For her to have been plucked from obscurity and given starring roles in two R&H films only underscores my suspicion.

by Anonymousreply 521September 1, 2022 2:31 PM

She touched my pecker.

by Anonymousreply 522September 1, 2022 2:35 PM

I think Shirley Jones said/wrote that she'd slept with Rodgers. She and Jack Cassidy must have been quite the couple.

by Anonymousreply 523September 1, 2022 2:37 PM

R523, Shirley did confirm in her autobiography the legendary Jack Cassidy/Cole Porter story.

by Anonymousreply 524September 1, 2022 2:43 PM

Miss Jones married Cassidy in 1956, and she was a virgin on their wedding night.

by Anonymousreply 525September 1, 2022 2:44 PM

R525, What about oral and anal sex?

by Anonymousreply 526September 1, 2022 2:55 PM

I would have to see a pic of you first r526.

by Anonymousreply 527September 1, 2022 3:29 PM

Does Mary Rodgers talk about Dot Gray or not?

by Anonymousreply 528September 1, 2022 6:22 PM

Not Dot. Sorry, r528.

by Anonymousreply 529September 1, 2022 6:33 PM

Who's Dot Gray?

by Anonymousreply 530September 1, 2022 10:16 PM

r530 = Michael Kidd

by Anonymousreply 531September 1, 2022 10:21 PM

Beverly's sister, r530.

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by Anonymousreply 532September 1, 2022 10:33 PM

Isn't Beverly Gray the old dame who starred in the series DECOY and famously played charades on TV?

by Anonymousreply 533September 1, 2022 10:38 PM

One could famously play charades on TV?

by Anonymousreply 534September 1, 2022 10:40 PM

Oh in the early days we even had a TV series where celebs would play something called Mad Libs.

by Anonymousreply 535September 1, 2022 10:42 PM

R533 that was thatAllison Haye bitch Beverly GARLAND.

by Anonymousreply 536September 1, 2022 10:46 PM

That wasn't exactly how I typed it....

by Anonymousreply 537September 1, 2022 10:47 PM

Having Friday drinkie poos a little early this week?

by Anonymousreply 538September 1, 2022 10:49 PM

Excuse me...ex-c-u-s-e me. Beverly Garland is a DL icon.

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by Anonymousreply 539September 1, 2022 10:52 PM

I had never even heard of Decoy but saw an episode Monday on one of those over the air digital subchannels.

by Anonymousreply 540September 1, 2022 11:12 PM

Isn't Beverly Garland most famous for playing Little Do-Do's mother on My Three Sons?

by Anonymousreply 541September 1, 2022 11:25 PM

And for being Judy "Pills" Garland's less talented sister.

by Anonymousreply 542September 1, 2022 11:26 PM

That's just one of her many accomplishments, r541. Here's another...

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by Anonymousreply 543September 1, 2022 11:33 PM

Is anyone going to post excerpts?

by Anonymousreply 544September 1, 2022 11:58 PM

R121 so that was Mr. Caroline Kennedy? I've always wondered about him. He's sort of creepy.

by Anonymousreply 545September 2, 2022 12:18 AM

Who remembers me?

Show of hands?

by Anonymousreply 546September 2, 2022 12:27 AM

I remember you, Lola. You replaced Dorothy Malone for several weeks on Peyton Place when Dorothy Malone had an emergency hospitalization.

by Anonymousreply 547September 2, 2022 12:35 AM

Albright looked a little like Barbara Stanwyck.

by Anonymousreply 548September 2, 2022 12:39 AM

Je t'adore, Lola @ r546!

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by Anonymousreply 549September 2, 2022 12:40 AM

Was she a lesbian in this?

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by Anonymousreply 550September 2, 2022 12:43 AM

It looks like she going more sultry gamine, r550.

by Anonymousreply 551September 2, 2022 12:57 AM

^

she's

by Anonymousreply 552September 2, 2022 12:58 AM

Americans in the 1950s were never going accept a leading lady named Lola.

And you'll notice the name has never come back in vogue if it ever was.

by Anonymousreply 553September 2, 2022 1:59 AM

[quote]Americans in the 1950s were never going accept a leading lady named Lola. And you'll notice the name has never come back in vogue if it ever was.

Excuse me?

by Anonymousreply 554September 2, 2022 2:11 AM

[quote]Isn't Beverly Garland most famous for playing Little Do-Do's mother on My Three Sons?

She's equally remembered as a scream queen in schlocky 1950s horror/sci-fi flicks. She used to credit her success to having had "a strong set of lungs."

by Anonymousreply 555September 2, 2022 2:13 AM

Was she also known as The Body?

by Anonymousreply 556September 2, 2022 2:17 AM

No. The Body was Marie McDonald, the early 1950s TV sitcom star of My Friend Irma.

by Anonymousreply 557September 2, 2022 2:29 AM

Beverly has/had a hot gay son.

by Anonymousreply 558September 2, 2022 3:30 AM

Lola Albright was once married to actor Jack Carson.

by Anonymousreply 559September 2, 2022 3:44 AM

She was around Sacramento when I lived there in the 80s running the Beverly Garland hotel.

by Anonymousreply 560September 2, 2022 5:06 AM

Carol and Julie were at Mary's memorial service.

by Anonymousreply 561September 2, 2022 5:11 AM

She had one there, r560? The Garland is still in North Hollywood and it certainly looks as glamorous as one would expect!

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by Anonymousreply 562September 2, 2022 6:16 AM

[quote] and it certainly looks as glamorous as one would expect!

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not.

by Anonymousreply 563September 2, 2022 2:33 PM

Running it into the ground is more like it.

by Anonymousreply 564September 2, 2022 5:06 PM

[quote]Americans in the 1950s were never going accept a leading lady named Lola. And you'll notice the name has never come back in vogue if it ever was.

My mother (born in 1921) changed her name to Lola in the '30s.

by Anonymousreply 565September 2, 2022 5:41 PM

[Quote] My mother (born in 1921) changed her name to Lola in the '30s.

What did she change it from?

by Anonymousreply 566September 2, 2022 5:43 PM

[quote]I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not.

Well, r563, that certainly says more about you than it does about me.

by Anonymousreply 567September 2, 2022 6:12 PM

I'm guessing Ralph, r566.

by Anonymousreply 568September 2, 2022 6:13 PM

She changed it from Tempest.

by Anonymousreply 569September 2, 2022 6:21 PM

BUMP

by Anonymousreply 570September 10, 2022 4:31 AM

I think Mary got the sharp tongue from her mother, but had enough wherewithal to realize if she used it all the time she would be as big of a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 571September 10, 2022 5:10 PM

r566 She had an ethnic name (as did all of her siblings.)

by Anonymousreply 572September 10, 2022 6:01 PM

I'm finally reading "Shy," and am totally absorbed and amused.

The line quoted above about Hal Prince: “Hal was born clasping a list of people he wanted to meet" is followed by "I was born clasping a list of people I wanted to get away from," which made me laugh out loud. The rare case of a book that lives up to its hype.

by Anonymousreply 573October 5, 2022 6:59 AM

Did she meet the Gershwins or Jerome Kern? She was old enough.

by Anonymousreply 574October 5, 2022 9:13 PM

Mary writes that her father "didn't play records much in general, but in specific he didn't play Gershwin - the only composer he might have envied." She says her father didn't have close friends, and spent most of his time working, so growing up she knew Hart and Hammerstein well but not other composers. She did go to Brearley with Irving Berlin's three daughters.

by Anonymousreply 575October 5, 2022 11:27 PM

[quote]No, but Dorothy did say to Mary: "We love you but we don't like you."

Later in her book Mary says she eventually came to feel that her parents liked but didn't love her. Which may be worse. And by that point, it's very clear that her parents didn't like OR love each other. Of her only sibling, her younger sister Linda, she writes, "Every fifteen years or so we have a moment of sisterly fun." Understandably, Mary was still seeing a shrink into her 80s.

by Anonymousreply 576October 11, 2022 1:48 AM

Did Richard like anybody? I would say not even Oscar who it seems most people liked.

by Anonymousreply 577October 11, 2022 12:46 PM

What I found most interesting is that she didn't think much of Oscar and says he had a real mean streak. I never came across that before.

by Anonymousreply 578November 13, 2022 3:17 AM

I noticed that as well, r578.

Considering his long and celebrated working relationship with her father, Oscar is rarely mentioned in SHY, and only memorably for that odd snipe about his mean streak. And Mary was certainly old and wise enough in the years R&H worked together to have been taking notes. I wonder if part of it was a jealousy she had of Sondheim's relationship with Oscar?

by Anonymousreply 579November 26, 2022 8:53 PM

R23

"I need a few care about her life or are you just hoping for her dish about others?"

Why you speaky ze Inglees lika dees?

by Anonymousreply 580November 26, 2022 11:45 PM

I'm finally reading this, and I'm really enjoying it. Mary Rodgers was kind of crazy, but she was hilariously funny.

There's a great dig against Sarah Jessica Parker in it, when Rodgers describes trying to find the right person to play Winfred the Woebegone in "Once Upon a Mattress" after George Abbott nixed the idea of going with Nancy Walker and wanted to find a new star: "...it's a very hard part to cast. You need a real clown with a great voice, someone with a huge personality but immediately likable, and there aren't many performers like that, as we unfortunately found out in the 1996 revival when Sarah Jessica Parker got one of the four things right." Rodgers's co-writer explains in a footnote: "Parker was immediately likable."

Ouch!

I didn't know that Carol Burnett's replacement for the original Broadway show was Ann B. Davis (Alice from The Brady Bunch) who was so inadequate the show almost immediately closed when she stepped into the part.

by Anonymousreply 581August 9, 2023 9:24 PM

I just finished it. I enjoyed it so much. her parents were such unpleasant people, and she grew up somehow to be such a good person (or at least able to fool this reader into thinking she was one).

I was expecting more insights into Sondheim's character, although I liked that she did not hesitate to talk about how that even adored him a her whole life, she realized how cold and critical he could often be, and that he realized almost everyone he spent time with was intellectually inferior to him, although he was too polite to say it.

by Anonymousreply 582August 10, 2023 3:18 AM

Sorry, that last part (which is both long an dincoherent!) should read:

"I liked that she did not hesitate to say that even though she adored him her whole life, she realized how cold and critical he could often be. She also understood that he realized almost everyone he spent time with was intellectually inferior to him, although he was too polite to say it. "

by Anonymousreply 583August 10, 2023 3:24 AM

One other thing I like about her: although she really digs into the characters of her parents and her first (abusive) husband, she mostly doesn't dwell for long on the negative with the famous people she dislikes, although she's very clear about disliking them. Arthur Laurents, "that little shit," is her least favorite person in the book though she never explains very clearly why; she also refers to Barbara Barrie from "Company" as "the female Arthur Laurents" and doesn't tell us much as to why.

btw, I've been surprised there's yet to have been a good take-down biography of Laurents, since he was such an incredibly influential person in 50s-70s culture, and yet was so clearly despicable.

by Anonymousreply 584August 10, 2023 3:56 AM

Also liked what nice things Rodgers has to say about Carol Burnett, Jack Gilford, and Jane White in the OBC of "Once Upon a Mattress."

She thought Joe Bova (the original Prince Dauntless) was a jerk. She also disliked Elaine Stritch--Rodgers was the liaison for Lincoln Center for the "Cast Album" documentary for "Company"--, but she admits Stritch's bizarre antics are amusing in the documentary.

She says she was honest with Sondheim in rehearsals that "Anyone Can Whistle" didn't have a plot, and he told Arthur Laurens who sent her a letter from Philadelphia saying how much he hated her and forbidding her from going to tryouts.

She says her dad was hot to fuck Diahann Carroll ever since he saw her sing on television, which led to him writing "No Strongs" just for her. She confirms that her father had affairs with many of his actresses, including Carroll and Eva Gabor.

Unfortunately she has almost nothing to say about the personalities of some of the other famous leading women her father worked with, including Julie Andrews, Pat Suzuki, and Shirley Jones. I would have loved to have read what she thought of them (although she probably did not want the book sued by them, since they're all alive), and if Jones was another of her father's bedmates (as has long been rumored). I also would have loved to have heard what she thought Gertrude Lawrence, Yul Brynner, and Dean Jones were like.

by Anonymousreply 585August 11, 2023 5:00 AM

Finally got to this and adored it. The Larry Kramer story was a surprise, and she really showed some depth there. Quite moving really.

Also surprising was how well it captured the raw, relaxed, progressive side of the mid-century. I'm too young to have experienced much of it, but reading this book reminded me of the parts of it that I did.

And what a great thread that deserves bumping!

by Anonymousreply 586August 24, 2023 1:51 PM

Just reading these recent comments makes me want to reread the book! I bought it as soon as it came out and tore through it.

But I forget why Mary hated Barbara Barrie. Did she ever work with her or was it more of social thing? Anybody?

by Anonymousreply 587August 24, 2023 2:52 PM

R541 She was popular with the kids (kid viewers) for playing that part. Beverly Garland had a certain kind of popularity that actors don't really have any more - for being a guest star on a lot of popular TV shows. I think she was also on a game show or talk show. She was very well liked and well known, just for appearing in single episodes of a lot of different TV series (including westerns). She had a certain personality and sense of humor. She was also known for Beverly Garland's Holiday Inn in North Hollywood, now known as The Garland.

by Anonymousreply 588August 24, 2023 3:10 PM

[quote] Americans in the 1950s were never going accept a leading lady named Lola.

Lola Albright actually had a pretty distinguished career with "Peter Gunn" and lead roles in several movies.

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by Anonymousreply 589August 24, 2023 4:03 PM

As I remember watching Beverly Garland as a kid in the late 50s/60s (I'm ancient!), she was always very intense and dramatic in her acting roles, as in her own series DECOY, in which she played a police woman often undercover and various guest appearances on other series, but then as a game show regular on the old CHARADES and others, she could be hilarious and quite bawdy (for the times), like a softer, prettier version of Brett Somers.

But why are we talking about Beverly Garland on a Mary Rodgers thread?

by Anonymousreply 590August 24, 2023 6:17 PM

R590 see post R533

by Anonymousreply 591August 26, 2023 9:45 PM
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