Cybill Shepherd vs. Candice Bergen

Candice for the win.

Candice then, but they are about equal now.

I've always thought Candice is an AWFUL actress.

Cybill could be OK with the right material.

Zzzzzzzzzz.

Candice...never saw Cybill as even remotely pretty

Both had top 10 box office movies in 1971.

# 6 - Candice

# 9 - Cybill

Cybill's first movie outing was a triumph. At the beginning of her film career, Candice was considered an exceptionally bad actress.

Candice. Not even close.

[quote]R5 I never saw Cybill as even remotely pretty

Hmmmmm

Candice Bergen, classic all American good looks.

It’s hard to compare them, because they’re kind of in the same boat: fashion models who turned to movies with sporadic success.

I’d have to say Shepherd is actually the more naturally talented. Or put it this way - if you had to watch them both in a play on stage, Shepherd would at least be the more interesting to watch. She has a stronger personality and more vitality.

Bergen was good in STARTING OVER, I must say. But she’s bad or borderline bad in most of her performances. Shepherd is good or borderline good in most of her performances, and has made more important films.

Cybill Shepherd was stunning. Anyone who says otherwise is derailing the debate. Grace Kelly vibes, though less icy and a bit more All American girl.

Candice Bergen at least always seemed to have a sense of humor about herself.

Interesting how both ladies have allowed themselves to gain some weight in their elder years and for that I applaud them.

I like Candice Bergen better. Cybill Shepard is a bitch.

I loved Candace in The Group (1966) and she was certainly the best-looking cast member.

Acting:

Cybill (Moonlighting) > Candace (Murphy Brown)

Candace (Murphy Brown) > Cybill (Cybill)

I'm starting to watch Murphy Brown for the first time and it's bizarre that Candice dominated the Emmys for a time (she had to take herself out of consideration). Is this really considered one of the great sitcom performances? She still completely wooden (heh) in this. Just barking or robotically saying her lines.

I did like her in Miss Congeniality and Boston Legal. She seemed to loosen up *after* Murphy Brown ended.

I've been watching Cybill as well and it's really held up quite well IMO. I'm enjoying it more than MB. I guess since it hasn't been constantly playing in syndication, it feels fresher. I've read here that Cybill's main problem was that she couldn't recognize the value of being the straight person and not realizing that that was how she could shine. I can agree with that but i do think r12 is correct in that Cybill has more moxie and charisma.

Im not sure Elizabeth Montgomery was eber considered icy, R4.

In their day they were both gorgeous. On looks I'd give Cybill a small edge. But I think Candy would have been loads more fun both in and out of the sheets

Did you ever see the movie Rich & Famous starring Candace, Jacqueline Bisset? One of those bitches had sex with a very young n hot Matt Lattanzi in that movie.

r21, is the original series streaming somewhere?

Was reading a book on Sue Mengers recently, who was an agent for both of them. It mentions Candice saying she remembered when Peter Bogdanovich brought Cybill to Sue's house to a party for the first time and everyone was stunned by Cybill's beauty. I think Candice is being hard on herself there, she was of course beautiful herself at that time.

Cybill was great on Moonlighting. Agree with a poster above saying she had more charisma and was more interesting but Candice can be happy with all her Emmys.

Here's a link to the book about Sue if anyone wants to read it.

I think Cybill was the prettier as a young woman, though they both were certainly far above the norm. Personally I loved Candice as Murphy Brown, but I suspect Cybill has more range.

Not that my opinion of them as people will matter, but I'd be delighted to meet Candice someday and tell her how much I've enjoyed her work, whereas I'd be worried about catching Cybill on an off day and getting shanked for having the nerve to make eye contact.

Shepherd, stunning. Bergen good looking. Shepherd blessed with the voice and comic timing, loved her on Moonlighting. Bergen a shrill and mannish nightmare on Murphy Brown.

I enjoyed Murphy Brown. I watched every episode that aired over all 10 seasons. A very well done show, although it has not held well in repeats.

That said, I've always thought the weak link for the series was Candace Bergen. I don't think she's a strong actress. Has a limited range. Has a very flat delivery.

I've never really understood all the Emmys she got.

She delivered every line with a smirk like a dog waiting for treats. Shepherd actually...acts.

Candy is still gorgeous and funny, Cybil is a c word and not even pretty enough for the comparison.

Pauline Kael noted Bergen's beauty in reviews but found her performances poor in many early 70s film. She said in an acting contest between Bergen and Ali McGraw, McGraw would win. Shepherd's performances in The Last Picture Show and The Heartbreak Kid were well-received as was her performance in Taxi Driver. Bogdanovich did her no favors and much of the negative press was centered around their relationship. Both were stunning in their younger days.

Actresses, actresses! You’re BOTH beautiful with mediocre acting skills!

[quote]She said in an acting contest between Bergen and Ali McGraw, McGraw would win.

I would disagree with that one.

Ali McGraw is by far the worst actress i've ever seen who managed to sustain a career in Hollywood. Of course, sleeping with the boss certainly didn't hurt her.

[quote] She delivered every line with a smirk like a dog waiting for treats. Shepherd actually...acts.

Have you seen the sitcom Cybill? She was fine at first but her delivery after the first season or so was exactly as you described for Candice: “She delivered every line with a smirk like a dog waiting for treats.” She wanted desperately to be Lucille Ball and that was not her strength. She was so great in Moonlighting and she really sabotaged herself with her jealousy of Bruce Willis and Baranski.

I hated Candice in MB but outside of that she’s been good to excellent, including her recent performance in Let Them All Talk.

Candice was excellent as the Vogue editor in SATC.

I think both are too mannish and blah to be beauties, and have not so great bodies. America just loves Aryan Blonde looks for whatever reason. Candice seems more fun to be around. Ali was better looking than both and seems very nice, if a dim bulb. None of the three could act, ever, though Cybill was great at playing herself in The Last Picture Show.

Cybill was more beautiful and naturally talented when she was younger…

Candice, and she was Hollywood royalty as well.

Team Candice.

Cybill SHEpard is obviously prettier than Candice BergMAN

Well, Martha Stewart doesn't like Cybill, who brilliantly portrayed her, in that TV movie. The cabbage chopping incident and the prison scenes were hilarious!

I’ve always thought Candice would have been better casting for Martha than Cybill.

Sidney Biddle Barrows wanted Cybill to play her in the Mayflower Madam TV movie in the 80s. This was when Cybill riding high on the success of Moonlighting. Candice got it instead.

Seriously David? Even Miss DiPesto can see it’s me!

Cybill's a better actress than people give her credit for. She was wonderful on Moonlighting, and gave some Emmy worthy performances. She was also effective in a supporting role on a show called The Yellow Rose. The problem as others have pointed out, was that she saw herself as a comedienne, which she is not, instead of fantastic straight woman (which she is). Her self titled show suffered greatly because of that. She should have studied Eve Arden and Mary Tyler Moore. I think she would have gotten the acclaim she wanted so much.

Candace was good, even great at times on Murphy Brown, but no way deserving of five Emmys. The way the press canonized that show and Bergen back in the day, you would have thought it was Meryl doing Sophie's Choice every week.

I thought Cybill was very good in The Long, Hot Summer miniseries and Emmy worthy for Moonlighting. It’s like she developed her acting skills when she re-emerged in the 80s, but then lost them again with the birth of the twins.

I always found Cybill more attractive. She was gorgeous in "The Last Picture Show".

Candice Bergen is one of those actresses who turns out to be a lot smarter than people would assume. She pulled pranks with Abbie Hoffman, catfished Henry Kissinger, and elevated her character's feud with Dan Quayle using a responsible and rational public statement to quell the controversy.

Cybill Shepherd is one of those actresses who turns out to be a lot less intelligent than people would assume. She had more famous lovers than Candice (Elvis and Bogdanovich vs. Terry Melcher and Louis Malle), but her range just isn't there. And her grasp of real-world issues is a bit flaky, making her a slippery activist on her own time.

I never understood the Candice and Louis Malle marriage. What an odd pairing. And she never appeared in any of his films like Susan Sarandon (who was with him before Candice).

Shepherd wore clothes beautifully.

R34 I think Kael ultimately agreed with you and reversed her decision some time later. The comment regarding Bergen was for an obscure 1971 movie TR Baskin. MacGraw made an auspicious debut in 1969s Goodbye Columbus and in Sidney Lumet's1980 film Just Tell Me What You Want Kael said MacGraw was better than she'd ever been before.

Cyril used to piss her pants a lot

Cybill was much better looking and a better actress.

Never thought Candice was very attractive at all. Kinda masculine looking, actually. She's probably the nicer person of the two though.

"Homosexual or Jew?"

candi bergen but oh my cybill was pretty in the last picture show and moonlighting!

Candance was gorgeous particularly in the Adventurers (1970) and so was Cybill in the 70s and 80s

Candy at 19

Cybill was the best part of L-Word.

When they were younger, I'd say they looked like my ideal women. I love natural icy blonds. I also have a strong attraction to their male counterparts. But, with men I'm also attracted to nerdy Jewish guys.

What all that says about me I do not know...

Candish by far. We played dresch up asch kisdsch!

Now that you bring them up, OP, their acting styles aren’t unlike each other. Their voices are different. Bergen is more gruff. Shepherd is more loose. But there is something the same. Those both vibe that they couldn’t give two f’s. Maybe that’s it.

Cybill seems funny in this interview from a couple years ago when she was 70

Cybill doing a passable job as a roaster for Bruce.

The jokes against her were funnier. Martha blasted her for saying "Isn't it weird how your career stalled out right after you made two movies about me? Who in media could've had the power and the balls to kill your career? It was me, bitch!" Or Nikki Glaser pointing out "Cybill Shepherd is a legend. Actor, producer, director. You name it, she's fucked it!"

By all accounts, Candice's acting was less wooden than that of her brother Charlie's.

.,.,

The young Candice Bergen was indeed beautiful, but it’s rare her face expressed much emotion, professionally. (Off screen she was apparently a hoot, and well liked.)

You could also argue she didn’t get the kind of roles that required emotion, anyway, and that few of them (“Carnal Knowledge” aside) were well written.

She said she got all her film roles fourth hand, in that they’d be offered to Julie Christie, Jane Fonda, and Faye Dunaway first. If those three passed then she’d get a chance at a part.

[quote]r57 Candice was gorgeous particularly in The Adventurers (1970)

Candice told a funny story about her one date with Trump on WWHL. It's probably on YouTube.

I like Candice but I think Cyrillic was stunning, especially during Moonlighting. I loved the show but her looks were actually distracting for me.

Well, Shepard never would have be asked to join the cast of 60Minutes.

In her prime, Shepherd was the better actress but Bergen was the beauty...

Bergen was too mousy in her early career, hence, the most she's remembered for is Murphy Brown and the subsequent typecasted roles that followed. Now while I believe she's capable of greater diversity, I don't think the public would stand for it now. . . and just as with her early career, I don't think she has the gumption to fight it. In many ways, she was born outside of time, where she truly would have suceeded to become the best. But albeit even then, she'd likely run into the problem of just becoming another leading lady than standing out on her own.

Shepherd on the other hand, I would argue is more limited despite being the better actress... she's more set to type. And of course, her problem was she knew she was a good actress. Yet she didn't really challenge herself either despite her more aggressive efforts to climb to the top. She liked easy roles where she doesn't have to stretch and prefers roles that sold her establishedimage more than the roles themselves.

Blah blah blah, Bishop Desmond Tutu, blah blah....

[quote]R71 I like Candice but I think Cyrillic was stunning

Well, who’s going to argue with that?

Yes, Cebellius was attractive, but Murphy's Law is the better actress.

I feel Sibilant was never really given a chance in the industry.

Today things might be different.

I remember as well Cybill being pretty outspoken for gay rights back in the 80s/90s when it wasn't so common so good for her . Found this as a reference on her Wikipedia page.

Trivia: Candice was shifting away from acting and into photojournalism in the 70s, and she was almost picked to host the Today show after Barbara Walters left in 1976. She was the runner-up to Jane Pauley. Candice is the "film star" Pauley refers to at 4:57 here:

Current day Candice has an amusing Instagram called Bergenbags. A lot of it takes place from her Fifth Ave prewar apartment with 'sweeping views of Central Park." There are lots of dogs, babies and activities with an emphasis on fun. As a side hustle, she paints dog portraits on high end leather purses, shoes and what-not, hence the name Bergenbags.

I’m interested in both their careers as models. Candice p to mostly do high fashion editorials, with a few covers here and there (a couple of Vogue covers during the Vreeland years). Cybill had more of a “girl next door” quality, but she was almost strictly a cover girl (to include some Vogue covers during the Mirabella years).

I don’t know what possessed OP to want to compare these two actresses, but I’m now fascinated by the discussion so far.

I went back to look at Moonlighting now that I'm an old fart. Still holds up reasonably well, but more irritating to me. They had good chemistry, Willis and Shepherd. Very funny to hear them say things like, "it's the eighties". God, such a blast from the past to see the styles/cars/etc. I forgot how great the secretary was.

Agnes Dipesto (Moonlighting secretary). The actress also appeared in one of the more memorable scenes in Legally Blond

On a mere personality level, Candice. Given she grew up in Beverly Hills with rich parents and among celebrities, you'd think there is a high possibility that she'd be a highfalutin cunt, but she seems shockingly down-to-earth. She also has a sense of humor. Cybill seems the opposite IMO.

Both Syphilis and Candida are treatable, but I really can't decide which one is better or worse, so this debate seems a bit silly to me.

People like polarities/binary thinking.

[quote]R81 Cybill had more of a “girl next door” quality, but she was almost strictly a cover girl (to include some Vogue covers during the Mirabella years)

She did not naturally fit into a lot of the sample sized clothes designers provide to magazines, and sometimes those were cut up the back to go on her. She had actual breasts and hips, unlike most of her contemporaries aside from Cheryl Tiegs. But her face was great and that’s why she did so many covers. Plus a million product advertisements where the clothes themselves weren’t the focus and had more time to be prepared.

Shepherd starved herself to win an important contest that first got her to New York, but after that she was like, “Eh, this is me. Take it or leave it…” which is a healthier approach than most young women in that industry arrive at, even if it costs them work. She managed to slip through the cracks at a normal weight, made a lot of money, and then transitioned to acting where she wasn’t expected to be emaciated.

Never got the Cybill thing AT ALL. In terms of looks OR as an actress--I mean...."Daisy Miller"?????????

R30 I thought that the entire cast acted that way. Strained repartee xxxx infinity. Especially the actors portraying Corky and Miles.

Candy obviously wins both titles

Re: Shepherd’s modeling career, she also did a ton of commercials while in NYC. This paid better than doing fashion layouts, anyway. And again, she wasn’t having to squeeze into size zero sample sized clothing that a designer sent over for a day.

Bergen bragged about hiding notes for her Murphy Brown dialogue on pieces of paper strewn around the set. Her wooden acting shows it. At least Shepherd's acting isn't of a reading off cue card level. However, Bergen comes off as more likeable, Shepherd is notably a real bitch.

I’m so glad to have a place to pass on my model minutiae! Why this info is stuck in my head I do not know.

Bergen passed in and out of the fashion industry quickly. She did a summer in NY while still in college, then was dropped by her university for poor grades. So she went back to NY and worked steadily as a model even though she, like Shepherd, was not as stick thin as most models. They also told Bergen her hairline was too low.

Rather quickly Sidney Lumet saw a Revlon ad she did in which he thought she was clutching a tiger (it was actually a tiger print pillow) and he auditioned her for a small role in his film THE GROUP. Basically she kept getting acting offers back to back after that and turned her focus to movies and travel.

I didn't think Cybill was a stunning beauty either. She wasn't ugly, of course. But had a kind of white trash look and her face always seemed ready to settle into a smirk that reminded me of Christine Taylor's Marcia Brady.

I remember hearing her describe how stunning she was in her youth on Oprah and could easily have thought she was conceited, but then I remembered that's actually how most people spoke of her back then. Maybe gay men don't get it. Because we once had a thread on her never being as good looking as she was made out to be back in 2010.

I don't think she was as good looking as Candice or the young Martha Stewart. Yes, Candice would've been a better choice to play Martha. They even have the same vocal inflections.

Well, Cybill Shepherd was also a successful model because she came across as sexy. I think it was her assurance. She had a vibe - she was not blank.

And she was that way in her life, which was new for a lot of women (or the traditional image of women) on the cusp of the 70s. For instance, Elvis Presley arranged to meet her and they dated for a short time, but she quickly broke it off because he wouldn’t go down on her in bed.

99% of the female population at that time would have done anything to ensnare Mr. Presley, but she was like, “Sorry, I’m not the one who’s going to do all the work in bed. Byyeee!”

Candice married Louis Malle.

Cybill married . . . the owner of an auto parts store from Memphis.

Cybill did not feel driven to marry unless she was pregnant. Each of her marriages lasted 3 years, which seemed to be her limit.

Again, she was unusually independent.

Cybill had a look that was very popular for its time. Candice seemed to be more of a classic beauty. Neither was a great actress but could be good under the right circumstances. Shephard's inexperience may have worked to her advantage in "Last Picture Show" for the role's mix of naivety and cunning, but she obviously was the worst actor in the who film. I think Bergen ultimately had more breadth and unlike Shepherd she always had a sense of humor about herself.

At least Candice never tried to sing.

Cybil could come across as obnoxious in real life, but she has a lot of spirit. I agree with R98. She was with the men she wanted to be with - without too much worry or heartbreak. Independent, yet very family oriented Texas beauty queen. She obviously had good parents. I think she enjoyed being beautiful but she didn't seem focused on that being WHAT she was. Remember the time they lost her dress, so she did her Letterman interview in a towel and slippers? Oh, so she's a bit of an ass. Not an woman people can easily classify. Cybil is a much more talented actress. I'd say she's good.

Candice Bergen seems like fun and a good human being. But I think she has a lot more hang-ups and ONE big secret. Not so impressive to have the image of being a straight shooter down to earth woman when you're living a LIE. Candice Bergen is the one who coasted on her "beauty." She is not talented but she was superhuman looking when young. Her face looked like an Avatar. Her features were too symmetrical, sharp, and pristine to really be experienced as beautiful. She had zero sex appeal. Still.

[quote]r102 At least Candice never tried to sing.

Her singing did improve.

Cybil was unfiltered. You can tell the audience doesn't feel her. I like that she talks about men the way they used to talk about women. She's honest about Bruce Willis too. And she needles Dave in the same way he always harassed his female guests. This type of behavior was not exactly a key to further success. She doesn't seem concerned.

That's a hilarious song. She's not that bad.

R102 Watch Starting Over

Candice was more beautiful, Cybill was a slightly better actress. Candice seems like she'd be fun to know, but I would give Cybill a wide berth.

Letterman and Leno were both pigs. Obsessed with nudity. Leno never got actively slapped with a harassment charge that I know of, however.

Both beauties, but neither of them sexy at all.

Both of them have oddly shaped noses.

I have a much easier time imagining Cybill in Candice's roles than the other way around. Though I haven't seen the Martha Stewart movies, so I'll take DL's word for it that Candice would've been better casting in those.

Cybill was much prettier than Candice, but Candice has/had intelligence, acting chops and star projection. So Candice wins by a mile. God only knows who wins the personality category.

Candice on the cover of Vogue, Dec 1967

Cybill on the cover of Vogue, Nov 1973

I wouldn't describe Cybill as an 'icy blonde'.

Candice's hair is absurd in the '67 cover, but in pretty much every other way she looks prettier to me than Cybill in her '73 cover.

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, they were both lovely in ways that suited the sensibilities of their time. In other eras, neither woman would have been considered particularly beautiful, so they were fortunate to have lived when they did.

Looking at her Vogue cover it’s easy to see why Candice was once frontrunner to play Anne Welles.

R116: Her dead eyes on that Vogue cover are why she was might have been considered "icy". The problem was that the era of "cool blondes" had literally just past and she didn't come off with the intelligence and sophistication that were often a part of those blondes.

Martha Stewart was better looking than Cybill? What a crock of shit!

Cybill was the epitome of an icy blonde. Glenn Gordon Caron was looking for this type when he was casting Moonlighting and his mind went immediately to Cybill Shepherd.

I take 'icy blonde' to refer to Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Dina Merrill types -- reserved, sort of buttoned-up and aloof. I wouldn't describe Cybill that way. She seems more obviously sexual and a little more direct.

I suppose you could use 'icy' in reference rumors that she's a bitch IRL.

Young Martha was quite good looking

2013 thread on Cybill

Martha had nothing on Cybill or Candice in the looks department. Nothing.

The thread linked at R124 reminds me: Cybill should be making her biannual “I fucked Elvis” rounds now that a new movie about him has been released.

Cybill Shepherd has a bulbous nose. Still, glad she never did major plastic surgery on it. Cybill can have expressive eyes, IMO. However, both Candice and Cybill are wooden actors.

[quote]R103 Candice Bergen seems like fun and a good human being. But I think she has a lot more hang-ups and ONE big secret… living a LIE.

I’ve heard stray references to Bergen being lesbian or bi over the years, but I wonder how one keeps a secret like that when you’re as big a star as she was. She was close to photographer Mary Ellen Mark for decades, but if it wasn’t her, who did Bergen share her life with? And why would no scandal rags pick up on it?

They’re the white Oprah and Gayle. Only their hairdresser knows for sure.

Candice could have been murdered by the Manson Family. I imagine she was haunted by the bloodbath on Cielo Drive for a long time.

Candice was absolutely gorgeous in her younger days. It was the kind of beauty that you only saw in movies or magazines. Cybill had a more accessible prettiness, like a high school cheerleader or prom queen.

I do love both their looks. I guess it’s how we Americans were conditioned for so long to idolize that whole Aryan/Pilgrim [italic]white white WHITE [/italic]thing… but the blonde-haired, even-featured, big-eyed look really CAN be stunning when it all comes together.

[quote] I’ve heard stray references to Bergen being lesbian or bi over the years,

So have I. This is 2nd hand information or gossip. But a friend of my friend went to a party at Bergen's and Louis Malle's (deceased husband) house. The party-goer said that it was obvious that they were both gay and in a lavender marriage.

Louis allegedly liked them young, his teen boys. Imagine that

Candice Bergen's 5 Emmys are a testament to the fact that the Emmys have nothing to do with talent.

Bergen is and has always been a SHIT actress.

But because of family connections and her looks, she was awarded repeatedly over more talented and deserving actresses.

Her delivery of some of MB’s wittiest lines was so ham fisted. Robert Pastorelli was the funniest one on the show. But he turned out to be a killer.

And what was the deal with Grant Shaud, the man who played Miles? Issues with minors or something?

[quote] Candice Bergen's 5 Emmys

I melted down her Emmys and made 'em into Cable Ace awards

Candice aged better. Not that she looked younger. But by the '90s Cybill started to look much more average. Like an everyday Southern frau.

[quote]Candice was absolutely gorgeous in her younger days. It was the kind of beauty that you only saw in movies or magazines. Cybill had a more accessible prettiness, like a high school cheerleader or prom queen.

Yes, that's a good description.

[quote]But because of family connections and her looks, she was awarded repeatedly over more talented and deserving actresses.

I don't think she won her Emmys because of connections or looks. Murphy Brown was loved by the media. I don't think it was ever as popular with the wider public. It basically vanished from public consciousness after it ended and the reboot flopped. That disparity explains why her Emmy wins don't seem to make sense.

Shows based on current events and politics don't usually hold up

[quote] I have a much easier time imagining Cybill in Candice's roles than the other way around. Though I haven't seen the Martha Stewart movies, so I'll take DL's word for it that Candice would've been better casting in those.

Candice isn't Meryl Streep. It isn't that she'd be more capable of transforming herself into Martha, it's that she's more like Martha in the first place. There's a greater resemblance, they both have a similar bearing, and they share the same strangulated, enflatted way of speaking.

Candice also has Martha's air of brittle passive-aggressiveness. Cybill played her as a kind of OTT comic mean lady. Which isn't really what she's like. So the performance is a little silly.

Both of them are/were? on YouTube.

I don't know if it was ever that funny. It was like Designing Women in that they seemed to believe simply dropping names of current news figures was funny in and of itself. But the media loved it: so intellectual! so current! so real!

0:48-1:00

Just AWFUL acting. I think you can catch her looking at cue cards.

Candice was in (Laura Branigan voice) Hollywood Wiiiives. I wonder if Gina Germaine (Suzanne Somers) was loosely based on Cybill? She's inspired quiet a few characters.

Candice talks that same monotone voice in real life and carries a lot of tension in her body.

R140, let's not rewrite history. MB was a wildly popular show that was on for years. The reboot was a flop.

A very young Candice with her father on WML.

[quote] But the media loved it: so intellectual! so current! so real!

So woke ( when it was still just liberal )

Candice had some bad angles that Cybill didn't.

[quote] I take 'icy blonde' to refer to Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Dina Merrill types -- reserved, sort of buttoned-up and aloof. I wouldn't describe Cybill that way. She seems more obviously sexual and a little more direct.

I think icy blonde perfectly described Cybill in the 70s, but she dispelled that image with Moonlighting in which she got to demonstrate her comedic and warm side. The thing I will absolutely compliment Cybill on is that she was able to emote what felt like genuine affection opposite actors she genuinely hated (and who hated her). This was true on both Moonlighting and the Cybill sitcom.

It wasn't that Murphy Brown wasn't popular. It was that the media fawned over it far more than its respectable ratings would suggest. It got a lot of attention.

Similarly, if you looked at Designing Women and The Golden Girls you might think they were about equal in popularity, running seven seasons each. But Designing Women was constantly on the verge of cancellation in its first three seasons and only began to claw its way up on media attention around Delta Burke. Its highest rated season was actually its sixth. Just after Delta left and the whole thing had boiled over in the media.

The Golden Girls was a top ten hit from the get-go. Three of the four ladies were already established TV names and the media was never obsessed with them. Designing Women was definitely generating a lot more headlines when the offscreen drama was at its peak. The Golden Girls outperformed Designing Women till the its final season, when Bea told the network she was leaving and so they decided to dump it in a bad timeslot.

Murphy Brown got a big boost from the Al Gore thing just as Designing Women did from Delta's weight and feud.

Column inches ≠ public interest

I think Moonlighting is better remembered today -- both as a name and for its relative quality -- than Murphy Brown despite only running half as long.

Her dad was Swedish R148? Some of the men in the audience are catcalling for Candice for obvious reasons. She was stunning. I don't mind her. She's her own lady and actually doesn't seem to really be as bitchy as she once looked. Nordic blonde and all.

Cybill's Elvis story never ceases to amaze me what for the era. He wouldn't eat her box so he had to go! Jesus! Filthy thing she is. I love it though.

Ratings=public interest

I love that Cybill told her DP story on television.

Yes, current event/political shows age like milk. There's no denying that.

Yes, Minister?

Bravo r158. You found the exception to the rule.

Murphy Brown was a Nielsen top ten series for 4 seasons, from S3 through S6 (1990-1994), so it was much more than just a critics' darling. It was a bona fide hit.

Moonlighting ranked in the top ten only in its 3rd season (1986/87), where it just squeaked in at #9.

Yes, Candice's father was Swedish. He had a ventriloquist act and in his day was a household name in America. Candice truly was Hollywood Royalty.

[quote]Cybill Shepherd vs. Candice Bergen

Will there be jello wrestling?

[quote] Will there be jello wrestling?

Wouldn't be her first time

What makes Cybill Shepherd an "ice blonde"? She's blonde and that's it. She's no Kim Novak, Grace Kelly, or Tippi Hedren. She's more a vaguely talented light comedian and self-deluding would-be chanteuse.

I don't understand the hate for Murphy Brown, I loved it as a child and I'm re-watching now and I still love it and laugh my ass off. Though it does help if you know anything about the events and politics of the era.

R165, there were no hot guys. It is DL.

How very dare you, 165!

Regulars, that I remember. The son in the reboot was cute.

Oh, please. Kim Novak was less talented than Cybill Shepherd.

R166 I personally found Miles attractive

Zoom in on the photo at R167. Candice Bergen is a MAN. She looks like a man. Even her body is manly.

Cancice wins. She looks completely different now but I think she is a beautiful older woman. Cybil is not.

R170, me too. And he lived with Jane Leeves.

Shepherd looked great in "Taxi Driver" and had good rapport with Albert Brooks.

[quote] What makes Cybill Shepherd an "ice blonde"?

She's absolutely icy in Taxi Driver. Not sure about the rest of her roles though.

Madonna is more beautiful than both.

R176😁😛😍😁😂😁😉😁😊😁

R152 You’re thinking of Dan Quayle, not Al Gore.

But they’re both dull white men.

I think season 2 of Moonlighting was the last time Cybill looked truly stunning. By season 3, she looked older and they were overdoing the lighting to a laughable degree.

She was still a beauty on CYBILL. C'mon now. I'm glad she hasn't gone nuts with PS.

Cybill seems to have spirit and isn't afraid to speak her mind. She's not made of southern sugar water and that's attractive.

Candice Bergen is NOT Murphy Brown - but I cannot stand to listen to her finishing school vocal fry and barking way of speaking. She had every kind of Hollywood connection and they liked her politics. Helped her career a lot. And for certain parts - he beauty was all that was required. I applaud her for outing Bob Hope as practically a rapist and destroyer of women - who was a total hypocrite for his whole "happily married" career.

Murphy Brown was a truly terrible show with one of the least funny cast ensembles of all time. I've seen it only in reruns - but nah. Roseanne was ROBBED. For years.

Candice Bergen was a photojournalist, actress, writer, muse = Dilettante. She had no emotive skills and her comedy gifts were very basic.

Cybill is more legit. Barely. More conventionally pretty. FUNNY.

Did Cybill ever do that production of HELLO Dolly for which she was announced?

I don’t think Shepherd was ever too interested in architecture, but Bergen started acquiring great properties right away. Her duplex apartment on Central Park South has a fabulous view. There’s an upper gallery with a pocket bedroom off that… perfect for a bachelor gal.

Do people call her Candi? She doesn't seem like a Candi.

Karen Walker referred to her as “Candi Bergen” on Will & Grace. I thought it was a joke, but you’d be surprised the stupid names actresses go by with friends. A few I know of for sure:

Winona Ryder = Noni

Christina Applegare = Tini

There's something off about Bergen. She has imposter syndrome, is how I'd put it. She's always trying to make her experiences seem more profound and artistic than she is capable of. She's pretty dull and secretive. She doesn't want to admit that she only had a career due to her name and good looks.

Malle didn't even live with Bergen after their daughter was born - he went back to France and she went on with Murphy Brown. He was pissed off about not winning the Oscar and didn't approve of his wife working. But she romanticizes him so much. She's weirdly close with her daughter, but that's not a crime. Seems to be the only reason she married for the first time. Bergen is not at all iconoclastic or bohemian - she's wealthy and butch.

She's been married to a real estate big shot for the last 20 years, but probably doesn't live with him either. Her interest in architecture, no doubt.

I think she IS a bachelor girl. Of 76.

I don't see Candice telling jokes at a Celebrity Roast.

R181 I didn't realize that Bergen had said anything negative about Hope. Interesting. I always disliked him for some reason and found him immensely unappealing, even though he seemed so beloved.

[quote]More than being a doting grandmother, Bergen is also an entrepreneur. Together with her daughter, she paints the solar system and pets, from hamsters to horses and dogs, on thousand-dollar designer handbags she calls Bergenbags.

[quote] She runs her burgeoning business in her East Hampton home's backyard and has garnered clients in high places, including Julie Andrews, Lena Dunham, and Barbra Streisand. All proceeds from her projects go to charities.

[quote] When she's not painting, she loves watching "The West Wing" and eating vegetarian meals with her philanthropist and real estate developer husband, Marshall Rose.

Cybill is definitely more FUN!

Yikes, I’m surprised Candice doesn’t also enjoy:

Watching paint dry

Sorting household refuse and placing it in the appropriate bin

Reading National Geographic, cover to cover

There was a thread here ages ago with excerpts from Cybills memoir. It was fun but we're not allowed to bump old threads anymore.

Cybill put her memoir up on her website for free years back.

I just fell in love with Cybill Shepherd. Her roast jokes are funny and mean - and she's not beautiful anymore and doesn't give a rusty fuck. She's still exudes confidence and just a little superiority. That clip is fun, R188.

I watched a panel dedicated to a book about Madeline Kahn. Cybill was on the panel. She admitted to treating people poorly in her past. I don't think she was even asked. She chewed out the author for calling her a Shiksa.

[quote]R85 Do people call her Candi? She doesn't seem like a Candi.

Her mother (also a former model) called her Candy. I imagine the girl outgrew it at some point when she moved off on her own.

It would be like a parent still calling you Davey or Tommy or Billy… reserved for those who grew up with you.

They called Joan Crawford Billie.

[quote]R197 They called Joan Crawford Billie.

Or usually just slutty.

Only those closest to her called Lauren Bacall Betty.

But Candi is a prissy diminutive. Like rich blonde women name their little dogs.

Candice Bergen is too much of a man for that name. Although her speaking voice does resemble a yappy dog.

Bergen looked better not long after Murphy Brown. A few extra lbs gave her the softness.

I believe Candice gave the fabulous place to the daughter and bought a smaller co-op.

[quote] She's always trying to make her experiences seem more profound and artistic than she is capable of. She's pretty dull and secretive. She doesn't want to admit that she only had a career due to her name and good looks.

She’s led an interesting, inquisitive life. Early on she made a lot of movies overseas so she could see different lands and cultures, turning down mindless crap like “Valley of the Dolls”. She did do the occasional trash, but only when a big infusion of cash was needed so she could keep globetrotting.

She’s entirely inoffensive.

[quote] turning down mindless crap like “Valley of the Dolls”.

Why couldn't she had turned down the idea of moving out of Cielo Drive instead?

[quote][R197] They called Joan Crawford Billie.

I called her that cunt!

Shepherd and Bergen were each OK but nether was a Sue Anne Langdon.

I've said this on here but posting again my Cybill story. Won't bore everyone with a long story but quickly I'm from Scotland and moved to London in early 90s as a teenager due to having parents who were not gay friendly at all. Worked in a bar Cybill did a cabaret type act in between Moonlighting & Cybill and spoke to her a couple of times in afternoon after she rehearsed a bit. Told her my story and she was so gay friendly and gay rights etc. Told me her sister was a closeted lesbian but she knew her sister was gay and said it was so hard seeing her sister live closeted in her home town where it was not very gay friendly. she said though that she understood why she stayed closeted as it was just to get by and have an easier life. Very nice to me. Hope her sister is/was happy .

Both of Cybill's daughters have come out as lesbian, R208. She's more than an ally. Cybill is kind of a kick ass broad. Probably a bit difficult to work with all along when she was young and full of swagger or too much under anyone else's control. She didn't put up with that for long. As she said at the Bruce Willis roast: The last time I fucked a 69 year old man, I was 18. Ha.

Her sister died in 2009.

"She was a really good softball player."

What is Cybill’s son up to these days?

Oh no! A STAR magazine exclusive.....headline. Why discredit Cybill Shepherd just because people don't like Candice Bergen? R211 is up to his childish baby shit posting. Scraping the bottom of his diaper. His thread did not work out the way he wanted. *stamps old white man blue veined feet*

[quote] Both of Cybill's daughters have come out as lesbian

Daughter Ariel is married to fashion designer Eliza Ladenasohn.

Daughter Clementine changed her mind and said forget that stuff.

Chad Todhunter ​ ​ ( m. 2000; div. 2004)​

Cyrus Wilcox ​ ( m. 2013)​

Two children

Clementine was my favorite Mackenzie on Y&R.

r212/Cybill - calm the fuck down.

[Quote] a longtime companion, Shirley Cook of Memphis,

It doesn't sound like Cyb's sister was all that deep in the closet.

Cybill was very pretty as a teen ad early 20s. After that she was hard looking and look old in her Moonlighting days when she was inn her mid 30s

r217 That's what I was saying. Season 2 of Moonlighting was the last time she was a knockout. By season 3 she was looking very matronly.

Exploitative industry, rite of passage, get naked on film, get a career, no wonder she looks hard. Sick industry , devalues people, objectifies them. no soul. no heart.

I thought Cybill still looked great in Season 3, r218. Even in Season 4 she looked good when she was pregnant. However, I thought she looked like crap in Season 5 (the final season) - very pale with the worst hairstyle ever.

Season 3 Maddie Hayes.

Season 5 Maddie Hayes.

[quote]However, I thought she looked like crap in Season 5 (the final season) - very pale with the worst hairstyle ever.

She had twin infants and was working at least 14 hour days. Moonlighting schedules were grueling, even more so than your average network drama.

There's a new book out on Moonlighting that goes into the show, and interviews pretty much everyone connected with it, with the exception of Bruce for obvious reasons. A great show, but what a clusterfuck of a backstage environment.

True but the way they stylized Cybill in Season 5 did her no favors.

Thanks for the tip on the new book! I added it to my Amazon list.

Who remembers Shelley Hack's attempt to get a Cybill resurgence of her own, with the Moonlighting knockoff Jack and Mike? ABC even put it on right after Moonlighting on Tuesday nights.

IMO both Candace and Cybill were only pretty in their teens to early 20's. They both peaked very early and became hard/plain/masculine looking very early on.

I honestly had no idea either one was pretty until much later after seeing pics/clips of them before they both became famous.

A lot of other people probably aren't aware of their youthful beauty because they mainly only remember them when they were both way past their primes on Moonlighting and Murphy Brown.

I can think of other women that were the same way. (Brooke Shields and Milla Jovovich come to mind. )

Who agrees and what other girls do you think peaked early?

[quote]R256 what other girls do you think peaked early?

Your mom.

Two boring long winded self satisfied blow hard CUNTS.

Tell us more about your mother, R228.

Funny I think Cybill was at her most gorgeous during Moonlighting (pre pregnancy anyway). The 80s hairstyles and fashion suited her look (and her body type) much much better in my opinion.

She was super pretty of course in the 70s but in a more bland forgettable way.

It's not funny. The poster upthread is speaking for himself and few others.

I never, ever thought to compare these two, but now I can’t unsee the similarities that make it fun to analyze their respective careers.

People still refer to Bergen as "Candy". Meryl called her that when they were doing press for Let Them All Talk.

Meryl is secretly a Muffy or Bunny or Missy, herself.

[quote] “I had my eyes done after the pilot of Murphy Brown when I was 41,” she says. “And then the next year I had these two [neck] muscles under here done, because TV half-hour lighting can be harsh.

Was that a good idea? Was it good work done?

Is there any medical reason Bergen gained so much weight between Murphy Brown and Boston Legal?

She was hungry.

Menopause. Simple as that.

Cybill Shepherd icy? I see her more as a Daffy Duck-ish, less charismatic precursor to Alicia Silverstone.

R234, Meryl IS her country club bitch name. Her New Jersey deadname is Mary Louise.

I've never seen Candice in anything but Murphy Brown and that character was so fittingly coarse. The rest of the cast lifted her and the material. Although the star, she was not the best of the ensemble.

Cybill, in Moonlighting, was a revelation. No, I'm not her agent or even a fan. She was sensual, sexy, smart, and independent. She was also frequently funny. Bruce wouldn't have become a movie without her, I wonder if he realizes that? I guess he doesn't realize anything now.

*movie star

R239, what do you think are the similarities between Cybill and Alicia? Just wondering.

Candice has the connection to Charlie Manson so that's a point in her favor.

Why didn't her and Terry warn the new occupants of the house that a psycho had a vendetta against them?

Candice was a Manson supporter. So was Doris Day and her son.

r246 To save their own asses. What else?

Candice was grossed out by the dirty hippies. It was Angie Landsbury's daughter who gave Charlie mom's credit card.

[quote]R242 Why didn't her and Terry warn the new occupants of the house that a psycho had a vendetta against them?

Candy was up for many of the same roles Sharon Tate was. She wanted that bitch OUT.

Which is better: "Mayflower Madam" starring Candice or "Beverly Hills Madam" starring Miss Dunaway?

Madame X starring a very OLD looking Lana Turner is best, r250. You'll laugh and cry - better than CATS.

I've only seen Sharon Tate in VOTD, but she didn't seem like much of an actress.

As an actress, Sharon Tate makes Candice Bergen seem like Cybill Shepherd.

[quote]R252 I've only seen Sharon Tate in VOTD, but she didn't seem like much of an actress.

She was an AWFUL actress.

No. Nai Bonet was an awful actress. Sharon Tate was merely not good.

I don’t know that name… but I very much want to see an ad reading “Nai Bonet for Jean Nate”

Nai Bonet played Nocturna. Her performance was unforgettable.

R251 The Big Cube 1969 with Lana as a retired stage actress whose sedatives are spiked with LSD! Its Gaslight meets Wild in the Streets!

At 61 I'm an eldergay, but despite that I still don't get Edgar Bergen. To hear Candice tell it, her father was a celeb on the same level as actors like Marlon Brando and Laurence Oliver. I've read 100 variations from Candice just like this: "Well, you know my father was Edgar Bergen, so wherever we went we were treated like royalty. Guest lists, whisked to the front of the line, motorcades, you name it. It was like that for years."

Maybe there's a reason ventriloquists aren't a thing anymore.

R259 google. Edgar Bergen was a popular entertainer for years- stage, radio, movies and TV.

R260 I never understood why a ventriloquist act worked on the radio, but it did.

You can't compare Edgar Bergen to Marlon Brando or Laurence Olivier, but he was a huge entertainer.

Candice wasn't lying. Although her father left nothing for her in his will, but $10k to the dummy! I'm sure this was rectified when her mom died.

Candice said her parents never once told her that they loved her.

Do you think Cybill had that problem?

No - Cybill’s from a close southern family… though maybe there was some 1950s suburban-style alcoholism (?)

Which one's the bigger asshole?

Cybill, no contest

If there was an Emmy category for being a cunt, Cybill would have as many trophies as Candice.

Some people say I'm attractive. I say I agree!

Cybill was good at those commercial spiels. She manages to balance cocky and charming.

Cybill 's pussy stank.

What do we know about Candice's brother?

He was hot AF. I saw that post.

They both look better than their big brother Charlie.

I'm in my late 50s and definitely have enjoyed Ms. Bergen over the years. Cybill is humorless.

Candice can be quite funny. Cybill always seemed like a snob.

Speaking of Candice Bergen/Murphy Brown - go to any celebrity IG page : “instafaithford” comments on virtually everyone’s post. How hungry is she?

Hungry. Has she worked since Faith and Hope? She is so far up Candy's ass she could do her next colonoscopy.

Aside from her chronicled antics, the only thing I really know her from is “The People vs. Larry Flint,” truthfully.

I think she got a lot of plastic surgery for that?

R278 This isn't the Courtney Love thread!

It's hard to say. In their prime, both are very beautiful. Candice looked more European...and Cybill looked like the girl next door, all American.

Given a choice, I'll give Candice a slight edge.

R97...Martha was, and still is a good looking woman....but man, doe she have big ears.

I never liked Cybill's looks. I didn't really like her after I read that book Permanent Midnight. She doesn't come off very well in it, though she only makes a brief appearance.

Candice Bergen is a beautiful woman, but he looks lean slightly more towards a handsome woman. I found her to be so likable in Sex in the City.

*does...

I've run into both women over the years at various events and the only memorable thing about either of them is that they both farted in my face!

[quote]R283 I never liked Cybill's looks.

How is that possible?

(^.^) oops wrong thread

The idea of Faith Ford as Althea Flynt!

Great thread idea. Just digging in now. Thanks OP

Cybill is Southern and WASPY, Old Miss or SMU. Candace is more City, Hollywood family, Jewish adjacent. Seven Sisters.

Univ of Penn for Candace. I correct myself

People in Hollywood really have always liked Bergen--they think she's pretty nice.

No one likes Cybill Shepherd, who is nuts.

They were both great beauties. I think Shepherd gave what is absolutely the greatest performance of either of them in "The last Picture Show," but bergen at least can get a laugh (Shepherd is incapable of being funny on a sitcom).

Bergen is excellent in Let Them All Talk, a Soderburgh project in which almost all the dialogue was improvised. She more than holds her own with Meryl Streep and Dianne Wiest. In fact, she’s the best thing in the film.

Bergen's is more wooden than Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snerd combined. Even when I met her while decorating her home for Christmas in 1998. FUN FACT: At the time, she lived across the street from Gabe Kaplan.