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New England wealth is a whole other game. Illuminate us with your stories.

by Anonymousreply 90March 25, 2023 6:34 PM

New Englanders aren’t glamorous especially the ones with old money.

Luxury retail stores can’t really survive in Boston. There’s a few on Newbury St but that’s it. And it’s probably mostly tourists or people traveling who are shopping there.

New England is beautiful but the people are not.

by Anonymousreply 1June 3, 2022 2:52 PM

They are the thriftiest of the OG, I’ve heard.

But, if you ever watch old movies, the shopping there was once the best…people always said “We bought it in Boston” or “We went on the train for shopping in Boston.” Sad it didn’t last.

by Anonymousreply 2June 3, 2022 2:57 PM

Charles Emerson Winchester

by Anonymousreply 3June 3, 2022 5:01 PM

Agree, they aren't flashy and dress in old Lands' End, LL Bean, and Brooks Brothers.

They drive functional cars like Volvos and Subaru or if they drive a Mercedes/BMW they drive it for years. Paid for in cash--not credit.

Many are also uncircumcised. I think the rate of circumcision is lower than in the middle class--most of these people have traveled to Europe and experienced European things.

by Anonymousreply 4June 3, 2022 6:42 PM

What’s with all these wealth post: Mainline etc? Someone has an obsession with what they think is old money and upperclassman bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 5June 3, 2022 6:45 PM

Do the upper crust pronounce their Rs?

by Anonymousreply 6June 3, 2022 6:54 PM

R5, how can the gays continue to be bastions of good taste without passing on the knowledge. It’s getting worse among the masses, we need to preserve the elegance!

by Anonymousreply 7June 3, 2022 7:10 PM

R4. Viva le prépuce!

by Anonymousreply 8June 3, 2022 7:29 PM

Well, you might start with The Boston Brahmins.

by Anonymousreply 9June 19, 2022 4:14 AM

There was a reason a country of outsiders sat back and enjoyed The Boston stranglings.

by Anonymousreply 10June 19, 2022 4:20 AM

The old guard are practically over - snobbery over what?

by Anonymousreply 11June 19, 2022 4:49 AM

When I went to dinner there, they had a fork or spoon for EVERY SPECIFIC ITEM you could consume. There was a pickle fork and a marmalade spoon, and sugar tongs, and a cheese knife, etc, etc.

by Anonymousreply 12June 19, 2022 4:53 AM

The Boylston Family

by Anonymousreply 13June 19, 2022 4:55 AM

R4- In the UK many years ago it was the middle class and upper class that commonly had their boys circumcised - both Paul McCartney and his brother were both circumcised- they were middle class and Queen Elizabeth's sons- all three were circumcised.

I do know a lot about penises- I'm gay so that's alright.

by Anonymousreply 14June 19, 2022 5:07 AM

I purchased my clothing exclusively from the House of Worth in Paris.

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by Anonymousreply 15June 19, 2022 5:19 AM

Rule is that your name appears in print three times: birth; wedding; and, death. Much of the really old money still has a lot of money. Not billions, perhaps, but a hundred million here or there adds up.

by Anonymousreply 16June 19, 2022 5:26 AM

R16, how does one handle the society column, then? Or acquired plaudits?

Or is that dreadfully recherché?

by Anonymousreply 17June 19, 2022 6:19 AM

Were Wills and Kate greeted by the cream of Boston?

by Anonymousreply 18December 2, 2022 3:06 AM

The Boston old money women I met looked like frumpy no nonsense lesbians, like Miss Hathaway on Beverly Hillbillies.

by Anonymousreply 19December 2, 2022 3:14 AM

Tad Friend’s book about the decline of the WASP had a lot of tidbits about these people that OP would likely appreciate.

by Anonymousreply 20December 2, 2022 3:16 AM

Old money women on the East coast are so plaaaain

by Anonymousreply 21December 2, 2022 5:01 AM

Was visiting my long-distance pahtnuh, who lives north of Boston in a very blue collah town, in Winter (pre-COVID) for the first time. I'm from SF. He was taking me on a tour of "Quaint New England Fishing Villages" as per my request. Fucking cold. We were either in downtown Newberryport or Rockport - I forget - at around lunch time, and being in shock over the inhuman temperature, I needed an Irish Coffee. We're kinda old. He parks the car (without the use of the letter 'R') and I hobble around with a spine injury and a cane , and I'm marveling at little leftover piles of snow, how the boats are strangely on land wrapped in plastic, and the age of the houses that are posted with signs, to which I say, "1645? Bullshit. Lies. Humans hadn't even evolved yet". Out loud. Partner is taking me to an ancient and apparently famous pub. With strange, low ceilings. Like from olden tymes.

An older man, our age, had parked his older vehicle - I think it was a Volvo - and had been subtly watching me. I have a sailboat in SF and was going on about the sad boats "on the hard" here, wrapped in plastic and what the fuck was that all about. And why have these seagulls not migrated to Florida? Where do their turtles live when it's frozen? What's up with all these dead trees with no leaves? Acid rain?

On the drive up there, we'd passed mansions that had their own polo fields. You can't really see the houses, but the private polo fields tell all. Interspersed with private boarding schools along the coastal route.

New England Man down the street was wearing old clothes and looked like he was a month overdue for a haircut and a shave. I said to my partner in my thick Califorrrrrnya accent, "I'll bet that homeless dude is like toadally, rilly, rilly loaded... I can see a money aura...". Not sure if he's a homophobe. Why is he staring? He just had this practical, confident, I don't give a fuck attitude. I know it's not tourist season, and we prolly look out of place here in this small village where everyone seems to know each other and wears the same raggedy LL Bean things . We all end up in the same little packed pub (mostly men), am in pain because it hurts to stand. "homeless" rich dude matter of factly gives me his bar stool and joins friends over in a booth.

At the end of the lunch hour, after everyone has had drinks, confident homeless guy comes up to the bar to get another round and sort of chats me up, saying he couldn't help but overhear me, where am I from, and what kind of boat I have, and where I sail. I assume he wants a 3-way. Conversation is reserved, and lasts just for a few minutes. When I say "San Francisco Bay" he looks at my partner, back at me, and nods slightly, with the barest hint of approval or perhaps satisfaction about his suspicions fulfilled. Doesn't reveal a thing about himself, except for his boat, which reveals that he must have an army of crew. I thank him again for giving me his seat.

Before leaving, I ask my partner (now fiance) if this is an ancient gay bar with crooked floors that was founded by The Pilgrims. He simply said that this is what Old Money looks like in New England, and was surprised that the guy even spoke to me.

Wealthy New England is not ostentatious. Very Klassy-like.

by Anonymousreply 22December 2, 2022 7:24 AM

Interesting R22, is there more?

by Anonymousreply 23December 2, 2022 7:40 AM

Perhaps you should stick to looking at Grindr profiles, r23, if you don't like reading stories, such as those requested by the OP.

by Anonymousreply 24December 2, 2022 7:50 AM

I LIKED OP's story. I asked if OP had more to post. R24.

by Anonymousreply 25December 2, 2022 7:57 AM

This is how we dress and this is what we drive out on the Cape. Not because it's cool, but because we bought it new and it still works. How else would you get to a clam bake?

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by Anonymousreply 26December 2, 2022 9:35 AM

I felt bereft because my experience with New England wealth is almost non-existent and I had no stories to tell. Then I remembered my 1970s college roommate. He family was from New England and originally made their wealth from the forests of Maine. The few members that remain still own the land and live off the leaseholds. Still well off but revenue is spread out among far flung siblings and cousins.

His branch of the family moved to the Southwest in the 50s or 60s because his father, a judge, had issues with his lungs. I really enjoyed him, we were great friends and are still in touch. He is quirky and eccentric, has lived in the same house near a university for probably 40 years. I was fascinated by his family history, the austere aunts, practical mom, and wacky and independent siblings. Now, with parents gone, he spends a lot of time with lawyers overseeing lease agreements.

If you want to hear about California newly wealthy I have plenty of stories. I grew up in the SF Bay Area and many friends and family, originally middle class, who became millionaires from the tech industry and its affiliated law and finance entities. Mostly the ones I know are regular people with really nice houses and cars. A few travel a lot but most are humble, grateful hard workers. One friend became an insufferable snob and she didn't even earn the money, just married it. I hear talk of their wealthy social circles where snobbery and entitlement abound.

I'm just grateful to own a home and feel warm and secure in an uncertain and tumultuous world. But life can be cruel, and even the most comfortable can lose it all.

by Anonymousreply 27December 4, 2022 6:56 PM

If we told you, you’d find out.

by Anonymousreply 28December 4, 2022 7:00 PM

It's all about where you summer or SUMMAH!

by Anonymousreply 29December 4, 2022 7:06 PM

And this is good old Boston,

The home of the bean and the cod,

Where the Lowells talk only to the Cabots,

And the Cabots talk only to God.

by Anonymousreply 30December 4, 2022 7:08 PM

If there's anything old wealth teaches you it's that fortunes can be lost in relatively short time. No wonder they are so stingy.

by Anonymousreply 31December 5, 2022 5:12 AM

How are they different from NY old guard? Who can can still spot on the UWS and on a sliver of LI.

by Anonymousreply 32December 5, 2022 6:11 AM

The one’s in NY are practically invisible. You don’t see them which I get is the point.

by Anonymousreply 33December 5, 2022 6:12 AM

Not all is sweetness and light for the Boston Brahmins.

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by Anonymousreply 34December 5, 2022 6:33 AM

I have not been East but I think Boston sounds very interesting. I’m selfish I want to maybe find geneology stuff. I had traced my family back to the 1600s and my family name started in Boston. At least I find it interesting…

by Anonymousreply 35December 5, 2022 6:42 AM

Did any Boston Marriage ever produce children?

by Anonymousreply 36December 5, 2022 6:51 AM

I’m from Boston, and it’s changed dramatically. In the 90’s you had Bonwit Teller and Louis to shop for clothes, and there were more mega salons like Dellaria and Sal Sanazarro’s where the wealthy got their hair done. My salon owner moved her shop to the first block of Newbury St., spent a million dollars on a gorgeous new salon, then had a staff walkout that bankrupted her a few years later. Beacon Hill is a great place to spy on the wealthy, with its tiny streets and $400 haircuts.

The truly wealthy Bostonian doesn’t show their wealth because of lawsuits, conniving, backstabbing cunts and scams.

One house in my hometown Winthrop dates back to 1640.

by Anonymousreply 37December 5, 2022 7:35 AM

Mrs. Henry Vale was a case study in old Boston (WASP) guard, even if slightly bitchy and domineering.

Old guard or whatever WASPs in Boston weren't that much different than those in Maine, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, and so on. They in turn resembled their cousins in England where many of the families originated. In short plain old Protestant values and work ethic.

Building of wealth is seen as blessings on earth, but flaunting it is vulgar and common. Things are purchased for serviceability and are expected to last. Boston like New York City you'll find certain persons going about in clothing that has been mended (or needs it), living in homes with furnishings that also need repair if not throwing out, and a house that needs work (sometimes serious), but it doesn't seem to bother. OTOH these same people have substantial sums in assets and cash...

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by Anonymousreply 38December 5, 2022 7:44 AM

UWS really isn't nor ever was "old guard/WASP". Whites yes, but largely Jews (of various backgrounds), Germans, and other Europeans who made some or perhaps good deal of money.

Old guard WASPs moved up from Washington Square Park area largely north along or east of Fifth avenue (in some areas downtown and mid-town block between 6th and Fifth). Once Central Park was built and below 57th (mid-town) became too commercial old money largely confined themselves to UES, Sutton and Beekman places.

Old money and others largely have always considered UWS of Manhattan socially inferior then and still today. People would joke the only time they went to UWS was when leaving the country. The piers where transatlantic or other ocean liners departed were on the west side.

by Anonymousreply 39December 5, 2022 8:07 AM

Nice thing about Boston is the gay scene has something for everyone. From preppy Hahvard types to Irish, Italians and bit of Portuguese as well.

One's few dalliances with Boston WASP men left one wanting. They're just as fucked up as WASPs everywhere else and best avoided.

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by Anonymousreply 40December 5, 2022 8:55 AM

You beat me to it R38 but this is the Boston Brahmin-type that I knew.

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by Anonymousreply 41December 5, 2022 1:29 PM

20 years in Boston and I knew a few members of the famous (non-Kennedy) families. Think of those who speak only to God-type families. Pleasant, often charming, big drinkers, never ever flashy, houses a blend of threadbare comfort and beautiful heirlooms. They are marvelous hosts but don't think for a moment that you're one of them -- unless you're one of them. Then they'll sense it immediately.

by Anonymousreply 42December 5, 2022 1:34 PM

Tuesday Weld is a wild and crazy member of a Boston Brahmin family. When she was a teenager, she was riding John Ireland's huge cock soon after she arrived in Hollywood.

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by Anonymousreply 43December 6, 2022 6:01 AM

Loves me some Beacon Hill! Especially Louisburg Square.

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by Anonymousreply 44December 6, 2022 8:22 AM

My grandmother’s cousin was Berry Brazelton, the Harvard pediatrician. He was born in Waco to a very prominent family (I’ve mentioned it before but there is a building on the UT campus named after the patriarch) but ended up in Boston after his training. Anyway, he married Christina Putnam who was a Lowell. She went to Radcliffe and was a book editor in NYC, of course! They lived in Cambridge for decades and often rented out rooms to opera students. Chrissie drove an old VW Rabbit and yes, wore very casual fashion.

Berry and Chrissie couldn’t have been nicer or more loving to everyone who knew them and those who didn’t. They owned a huge old family farm outside Waco and hosted annual family gatherings around Xmas, which were so much fun: when Berry first met my three year old son, he immediately grabbed his hand - ignoring all the other family members walking in to the farmhouse - and walked him over to see a cow skeleton about twenty yards away. He was easily 90 years old at this point but he just adored children and knew exactly what fascinated them. We still have two cow femurs in our house.

No airs, no pretentious affect with either Berry or Chrissie: the next morning, everyone ate at the local Marlin, TX Golden Chicken and had a lovely time. My parents were very close to both of them and I wish I had gotten to know them better but I really loved them the few times I spent time with them. When my brother died of cancer, Berry called my mom and spoke to her for over an hour. No one else did that.

TL;DR Renowned pediatrician family member married a Brahmin and they were darling and unpretentious.

by Anonymousreply 45December 6, 2022 12:20 PM

And I second Tad Friend’s book Cheerful Money.

by Anonymousreply 46December 6, 2022 12:31 PM

R22: You sound tiresome. What separates people like your "homeless" guy from you is that he looked for common ground, didn't make assumptions, and didn't evangelize for his home region. Anyone who who has suffered through someone rhapsodizing/evangelizing about their often new home knows how tiresome this is, esp. when it's someplace "warm" that's unlivable in summer or basically a cultural wasteland. SF is, in some ways worse, because so many of use know how the people detract from the scenery.

by Anonymousreply 47December 6, 2022 11:10 PM

People who complain about the distance and formality of New England should experience the phony, intrusive friendliness of the South.

by Anonymousreply 48December 6, 2022 11:13 PM

I can speak to the minutia of the upper crust but guys in Boston are grade a beef. Akin to Philadelphia imo as far as trade stock. Stout, fit and sometimes you can’t tell if they want to punch you or fuck you. But some are hot enough to take the chance.

by Anonymousreply 49December 6, 2022 11:22 PM

My father had a first floor apartment on the corner of Beacon and River. His billionaire boyfriend (old money) lived up the hill. Odd guy, not sure if it was the money or the pretense of the closet. That's all I've got for true old money from Boston.

by Anonymousreply 50December 6, 2022 11:25 PM

Is this another Greg thread? He’s very proud of living in Back Bay. With his prune tarts, or whatever.

by Anonymousreply 51December 6, 2022 11:28 PM

[quote] They are the thriftiest of the OG, I’ve heard.

My “comfortable” Boston grandparents had more than enough money, but kept long distance calls brief.

As a child I always found it odd that their attitude was “Say what you have to say and get off”… but in the long run those little economies kept more money going into the trust funds, so today I would thank them.

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by Anonymousreply 52December 6, 2022 11:36 PM

I love how DL thinks WASPs are exactly like they were in 1955. Never change, DL. Never change.

by Anonymousreply 53December 6, 2022 11:43 PM


by Anonymousreply 54December 6, 2022 11:49 PM

Tad Friend dated the decline to 1965. Certainly, people who came of age in the 60s and 70s were different in many of their choices from their parents--I came of age later, but still knew people from that world. The Bostonians influenced old money in other places like Cleveland and Chicago where descendants of old Boston money became the local old money. Even their children still are pretty predictable---I was making small talk with a colleague waiting for his taxi/Uber and discovered he was from Gates Mils (WASPy suburb of Cleveland---no aluminum siding allowed), between that and his surname, I didn't need to know much more and we didn't have go much further in that direction. Being too nosy with old money is not appreciated (or with the more discrete newer money) and they usually appreciate it if you know who they are but don't make it the topic of conversation..

by Anonymousreply 55December 7, 2022 12:45 AM

Wait R55... until that last sentence I thought you actually knew this guy, or could play the WASP version of Jewish Geography with him...

by Anonymousreply 56December 7, 2022 12:49 AM

Wait #2 - Rescue Chick's father was a closeted gay guy from Boston?????

by Anonymousreply 57December 7, 2022 12:51 AM

haha, yes r57. Originally adopted in Philadelphia, lived in NYC and San Francisco and always had a home base in Boston. I could tell stories about him but I generally only tell maybe 3 because I genuinely fear someone saying 'wait, do you mean NAME?'. He got around to put it mildly.

by Anonymousreply 58December 7, 2022 12:59 AM

wait r57, I misread. my father was never closeted, his long term open relationship boyfriend was closeted (and very monied).

by Anonymousreply 59December 7, 2022 1:00 AM

Got it - thanks for the clarification @rescue-chick.

by Anonymousreply 60December 7, 2022 1:01 AM

Well, they do more drugs now.

by Anonymousreply 61December 7, 2022 1:16 AM

^^ was for r53

by Anonymousreply 62December 7, 2022 1:17 AM

The DLers or the WASPs R61?

Or both?

by Anonymousreply 63December 7, 2022 1:19 AM

R56: You miss the humble brag part of being old money. They like their status and use it strategically, they're just not braggarts about it. Assuming that some rumpled-looking old billionaire doesn't know how to exercise power is a mistake.

by Anonymousreply 64December 7, 2022 1:31 AM

Kiel James Patrick - Three names always inspires confidence...

It doesn't get more old school WASPY than this, though like many others KJP seems more about a brand.

To answer another poster's question; no WASP men do not own socks. Hahahaha

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by Anonymousreply 65December 7, 2022 4:56 AM

Oh and KJP might be seen as N.Q.O.C.D despite appearances. Scion of a LE officer from Warwick.

"Mr. Patrick was not raised old-money but as the son of a detective in nearby Warwick. He and Ms. Vickers, who are both 31 and have been a couple since their teens, started Kiel James Patrick in 2008. They taught themselves to sew, handmade the first several thousand bracelets and dyed the rope by boiling it in lobster pots at his parents’ house. The Ivy League aura is an affectation: Mr. Patrick did not attend college; Ms. Vickers graduated from the University of Rhode Island."

Perhaps not a bit unlike Ralf Lipschitz who has made a huge fortune promoting WASP/preppy lifestyle.

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by Anonymousreply 66December 7, 2022 5:00 AM

T. Berry Brazelton, M.D.

Now there's a life story worth telling.

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by Anonymousreply 67December 7, 2022 5:03 AM

Eric Carmen is from and moved back to Gates Mills.

by Anonymousreply 68December 7, 2022 3:50 PM

A lot of them have passed on, the younger set is very different now.

by Anonymousreply 69December 7, 2022 4:08 PM

The old guard Boston aristocracy provided the bulk of my catering business.

by Anonymousreply 70December 9, 2022 12:24 AM

[quote] Is this another Greg thread? He’s very proud of living in Back Bay. With his prune tarts, or whatever.

No, R51, this is not a Greg thread. I love Boston, yes.

[quote] With his prune tarts, or whatever.

Grow up.

by Anonymousreply 71December 9, 2022 12:27 AM

[quote] Someone has an obsession with what they think is old money and upperclassman bullshit.

"Someone" being half the Eldergays on Datalounge, but point taken

by Anonymousreply 72December 9, 2022 12:28 AM

Please close thread lest the Now, Voyager alternate dialogue troll rear.its juvenile head!

by Anonymousreply 73December 9, 2022 12:30 AM

R12 - He's far to keen to be like us, just too much HKLP

by Anonymousreply 74December 11, 2022 11:38 AM

Doesn't get more "old Boston" than the Sears family.

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by Anonymousreply 75December 11, 2022 12:42 PM

I have family who are old Boston money (an uncle married into it, but he is hermetically sealed, even after 40 years of marriage, from touching any of it). My aunt is very unpretentious, yet for all the airs of hippy dippy (she got married wearing what looked like a repurposed tablecloth from an old Sears catalog), she deploys that money strategically, and plays the NOK (Not Our Kind) game often. This, ironically, tends to strand her at family events, as the entire family is NOK.

Her children are both lovely human beings who are simultaneously completely shielded from reality because they have massive trust funds. The female daughter has never had a job and currently takes yoga full time (posting TikTok videos of her "progress") and volunteering at the Montessori school she has her two kids in. She's also relocating to Central America, having a 10 acre compound built as we speak. But she's oh so unpretentious. The son is an engineer, but also borderline unemployable because he'll quit jobs without warning if he feels his needs aren't being met. Again, he's a lovely person (and his wife is terrific), but he's hard to have a conversation with, as he thinks the whole world should just have the same freedoms he does (yet doesn't understand the reasons he has them).

by Anonymousreply 76December 11, 2022 1:09 PM

[quote] Doesn't get more "old Boston" than the Sears family.

John Sears was one of my catering clients. Nice man.

by Anonymousreply 77December 11, 2022 9:37 PM

[quote] Not all is sweetness and light for the Boston Brahmins.

I am good friends with the Shaws (Samuel Parkman Shaw)—direct descendants of Colonel Robert Gould Shaw—the main protagonist of the film "Glory." He was the Colonel of the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment.

"Parky" Shaw had a biting wit and he seldom shrank from expressing himself with unrestrained frankness. He was fond of repeating his general theory on people,

[quote] "When I enter a room, a third of the people I know and I like, a third I know and I don't like, and a third I don't know and I don't like." Always careful to express his opinions in a blunt and straightforward way, Parky was admired and reviled in proportion to his general theory.

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by Anonymousreply 78December 11, 2022 9:48 PM

r78 It is no surprise that Boston Brahmin trust fund babies who don't need to work spent their time researching genealogy for elite hereditary groups such as the Mayflower Society and the Cincinnati Society.

by Anonymousreply 79December 12, 2022 6:59 AM

I love the old joke about the woman who inquired of a Boston matron where did she buy her hats and the response was, we don’t buy our hats, we have our hats.

by Anonymousreply 80December 12, 2022 12:25 PM


Oh yeah ? I'm still waiting to see the color of it.

by Anonymousreply 81December 12, 2022 12:54 PM

Dear Lord in Heaven!

by Anonymousreply 82December 20, 2022 7:48 PM

We never ask for the moon when we have the stars. But, my niece June has some very special canapés for you.

by Anonymousreply 83December 21, 2022 3:41 AM

My mom came from Boston wealth and had an old Yankee saying about trusting newfound friends or business associates-

“Take the teeth off that fox before you wrap it tight around your neck”.

by Anonymousreply 84December 21, 2022 8:14 AM

R68: eric Carmen grew-up in Lyndhurst. At that time, Jews like him and Catholics whose names ended in a vowled would have been as unwelcome as aluminum siding.

by Anonymousreply 85March 25, 2023 5:07 PM

Can someone please tell me what the point of R22's post was, because ...



by Anonymousreply 86March 25, 2023 5:16 PM

R85-THOSE people would certainly NOT be welcomed at the Mortimer Club.

by Anonymousreply 87March 25, 2023 5:17 PM

I grew up with several old Boston families, as a child I had no idea the wealth they had. They had beautiful farms like my parents, played tennis and skied at the local areas with us and went to the local public school. Like my parents, they had left the country club scene they grew up in and moved to a more rural town. It was during college and I went to some of their grandparent's houses that I discovered the wealth. One family was a Crane, not the toilet, the one's who printed the money. The summer house was a mansion in Oysterville, it was amazing. Later on I learned that although they had all this wealth, it was expected that they would get a good education and then use that wealth to focus on a career they loved. Many were teachers or farmers. They never drove fancy cars or had crazy things...but the trusts were beyond what you could imagine.

by Anonymousreply 88March 25, 2023 5:26 PM

It’s gauche to show your wealth. Understated is the way to go. And, as mentioned above, thriftiness is highly valued.

by Anonymousreply 89March 25, 2023 5:37 PM

R89- Thriftiness might be valued but Cheapness is TACKY.

by Anonymousreply 90March 25, 2023 6:34 PM
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