Back in 1998, did you ever think that it would be Michelle Williams and Joshua Jackson that would have the best careers?

The Met Gala is ridiculous, but I can't deny that Jackson looks the best he's ever looked. Strong John Jacob Astor vibes, in contrast to all the attention whores in their "look-at-me" costumes. A+!

Does Lola Falana know her 80s' stage wear is being revived?

I think I saw this number at Caesars in Lake Tahoe.

If I recall correctly it was initially Katie Holmes and Van der Beek who were hyped the most. I find it quite interesting that you really can never tell who will be the most successful of a popular series cast.

Michelle Williams always did seem to me to have something more, or maybe it's just because I liked Jen on that show more than any of the other characters.

From the very first episode, it was clear that Michelle Williams was the best actor on the show.

And I always liked Pacey more than Dawson. I think everyone did.

Joshua Jackson always had a certain charm/swag that JVB never would. It’s no surprise he would have the better career. Katie Holmes wasn’t as good of an actress as Michelle Williams, but I think she would have had a pretty good run if not for Tom Cruise.

Van der Beek made less of an attempt than everyone else. In 1998, the rest of the cast did horror movies - Katie Holmes “Disturbing Behavior”, Josh did “Urban Legend”, and Michelle did “Halloween H20”, which was a boost for all of them because that was the genre to be in if you were doing TV teen dramas.

He did “Varsity Blues” in 1999 but the other casts had gotten other notable roles by that time. That movie is a notable 90’s teen movie but it did nothing for him. Katie did “Go” and “Teaching Mrs. Tingle”, Josh did “Cruel Intentions” and then did “The Skulls” in 2000, and Michelle did quirky “Dick” and “But Mommy I’m A Cheerleader”.

I feel like everyone did good but him.

I remember that the creator of Dawson's Creek, gay Kevin Williamson, gushed over Holmes, saying she would be a major star. Even then it was obvious that Williams was the better talent.

His wife is breathtaking!

James VDBBeep had one of the least mobile faces I have ever seen.The kids on Dawson's Creek should have been forced to do hard labor for a few episodes. Smug little pricks!

JVB and Katie couldn't act and had no charisma. JVB was also too old-looking to play 15 as well. Joshua and Michelle stole the show because they could act and they also brought a vulnerability and depth to roles that were supposed to be supporting. Jen and Pacey were just more relatable (to teens and adults who reminisce teen life). Dawson's character was whiny and annoying while Joey was boring, self-righteous and made out to be this hottie (she wasn't all that.)

What's going on in that picture at OP's link? It looks like she has some extra fingers just lying there on his arm.

OP Thank you! I say this frequently myself. The breakout stars were supposed to be Katie and James. Meanwhile, Pacey and Jen have had long, well respected, careers.

[Quote] From the very first episode, it was clear that Michelle Williams was the best actor on the show.

Which is why it sucks that she had to fuck Heavy.

[quote] James VDBBeep had one of the least mobile faces I have ever seen

You don't say!

He could have shaved his neck....

[quote] Jodie Turner Smith is beautiful (that dress, not so much).

Good thing, because she can’t act for shit.

Queen and Slim and Anne Boleyn - I saw both, so shame on me, I guess.

I always cringe when I see Katie Holmes with her hair pulled back - and her ears sticking out. Wear your hair DOWN, Katie.

Her marriage to Cruise makes it impossible to take her seriously. The whole thing was so creepy.

He's married to Jodie Turner Smith? Who knew.

She's stunning, I wish she'd get more roles.

What about me, bitches!

Katie Holmes had a great start - Go, Pieces of April, Wonder Boys, The Ice Storm.

It's been ages since I saw Batman Begins and I can't remember what the issue with her in it was, and why she got recast, other than it was around the same time as the Tom Cruise marriage.

Now she's a punchline to a joke. And Tom Cruise's career didn't suffer at all.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]And frankly, Jackson has grown a lot more handsome.

At this time, I’d like to thank you for your kind and accurate words.

Could a makeup artist comment on what Jodie Turner Smith was trying to accomplish with the white powder monobrow?

I remember everyone said that Katie Holmes would be that breakout star.

Katie is fine with the teen movies and indies. But she wasn't going to be a big Hollywood star. The issue with Batman Begins was Rachel was just an annoying self-righteous character. They should have just had Katie play a darker more somber version of Vicki Vale the reporter, maybe as an edgy journalist who risks her life to get a scoop. Would have been more likable. When they recast Katie with Maggie Gyllenhaal, Rachel got even more irritating. I don't Nolan can write women at all.

Michelle Williams has the best career but she’s inconsistent as an actress. In some things, like Fosse/Verdon, she’s great. I saw the new Venom movie this weekend and she just died on the screen. There isn’t that charisma and watchability you get with a lot of great film actresses. She’s not very interesting in her choices or presence.

The fact that with all these superhero movies being made she was only able to get a female lead in one of the more low-rent spin-offs as a multiple Oscar nominee is telling. What’s also telling is how vocal she’s been about pay parity and better roles for women yet she accepts a poorly written girlfriend character when she could be doing much more interesting work on television. I have a feeling a lot of her award show sermons have more to do with her unrealistic expectations of having her own fat paycheck Captain Marvel movie than her truly speaking truth to power but that’s neither here nor there but I digress.

Joshua Jackson was only slightly above average in the looks department but had tremendous sex appeal. That deep, flirty voice is so hot. He’s supposed to be Michael Douglas in the new Fatal Attraction which should be interesting.

I wish Michelle Williams and the entertainment industry as a whole would stop shoving that gawky horse Busy Phillips down our throats. Vocal fry on a seven foot transvestite isn’t a cute look.

Nolan can't write men OR women.

I don’t know who either of these people are, and I’m OK with that.

[quote]JVB was also too old-looking to play 15 as well.

He looked young in the first season. He actually looked completely different with big eyes. Then in the second season he turned into Frankenstein with the blocky head, large foreskin, and squinty eyes.

I remember listening to the producers on the DVD commentary say, "The funny thing about this show is that the people who were nicest on screen were the most awful people offscreen. And vice versa."

[Quote] He’s supposed to be Michael Douglas in the new Fatal Attraction which should be interesting.

Would be even more interesting if he was gay.

I didn't think Michelle Williams was so talented when she was on Dawson's Creek. All that tough girl, recovering young slut shit. She definitely started to do good film work though. Maybe I first thought she had something in 'Me Without You', where she managed to be natural while using English accent.

[quote] I remember everyone said that Katie Holmes would be that breakout star.

She was 1990s teen girl pretty, that’s why. Joey was written as a tomboy and the other actresses came in and actually auditioned as scrappy tomboys. Katie doesn’t. She got the role because Kevin loved her big hazel eyes. She played Joey as “I’m not like other girls!” which is why she was more popular with the straight male fan base than Jen.

I thought back then Katie was likable and pretty. She did work steadily in films for a while. But I do agree that her association with Tom Cruise ruined her career. One, it was creepy and it was obvious she did it as a boost to her career although I'm puzzled as to why she thought it would. Secondly, she was not very good in the Batman Begins movie. Those two things soured me on her.

Pacey fucked his hot teacher early in season 1. That pretty much secured Jackson in the hearts and minds of viewers, and casting directors, for all time.

Michelle Williams was hilarious as an Audrey Gelman spoof in that Amy Schumer movie I Feel Pretty. Enjoyed it much more than many of her world-weary wife dramatic roles.

[Quote] Pacey fucked his hot teacher early in season 1. That pretty much secured Jackson in the hearts and minds of viewers, and casting directors, for all time.

How old was she supposed to be? Wasn't Pacey 14??

[quote] JVDB… large foreskin

WHAAAT?

Michelle Williams looks a lot different in OP's photo.

R30 you never watched or heard "Dawson's Creek", how about "Dawson's Crack"? are you sure you are gay? Are you new to DL?

For R39 .

Pacey was 15, Tamara was 36.

Thanks R43 That storyline would not be well received today.

I didn't know they would.

Tamara was played by Leann Hunley, who is currently back on Days of our Lives as Anna.

WHET to Corey Summers?

JVDB makes jokes about Dawson's Crack all the time. I love he's aware of it's existence. While I know he has twenty kids with his fertile wife, he did ping as young Dawson. He's very gay friendly.

Sometimes it's better to be a supporting actor on a hit show: you get notoriety and residual good will from everyone loving the project, but no one is expecting too much from you. You can take your time doing smaller projects to build up a jump to the next level, and the "next level" can be as modest as landing a supporting role in *another* hit show: still counts as a win. The "breakout stars" of a hit OTOH are under pressure of keeping that momentum going from breakout star to movie star/serious film actor ASAP. Not always achievable (especially if you are still shackled to the show), but anything less seems like a failure to launch.

[quote] He's very gay friendly

😂 I love it when jokes tell themselves…

This better not be considered "racist," but I always notice that most, dark-skinned black women have the most amazing bone structure.

I confess I had a crush on JJ in the 90's and especially when he was on "Fringe".

Dawson was so annoying he didn’t get the girl even though it was his show.

Dawson was obviously gay-coded as he was based on Kevin Williamson himself. His whole chaste, sleeping in the bed with his teenage female best friend, his effeminate, sensitive manner and his obsession with pop culture and movies. Seemed like Williamson wanted to make a coming-out story but obviously being the main lead of a teen show in the late 90s on The WB, it wouldn't fly.

Diane Kruger dumping him for Norman Reedus was the best thing that ever happened to Joshua Jackson in his personal life.

Selma Blair was supposed to play Joey. She would have been way too old though. And she's very sultry and sexy, can't see her as a dowdy tomboy blossoming into a beauty.

If it's true Kruger is a racist, I wonder what she thinks...

I find it interesting with Dawson's Creek, they did choose to get actors who looked more average and believable as teens (barring JVDB in later seasons). Of course they had nice hair, teeth, clear skin and good clothing but they didn't look like oversexed models like in 90210 or One Tree Hill. Degrassi and Skins had a similar type of casting of good-looking but still average and normal kids though I find Canadian and UK casts tend to be more down-to-earth looking.

Diane traded down, based on OP's recent pic of Joshua. Don't get the appeal of Norma Reedus.

Norma Reedus always looks unbathed and like he just woke up after very little sleep.

Michelle Williams is such a nothing actress. Not good, not terrible, but completely lacking in oomph or charisma. Most prestige actresses following the 1990s in that relative age group are like this. Natalie Portman, Amy Adams, Carey Mulligan, Scarlett Johansson, Emily Blunt, Anne Hathaway, Jessica Chastain. Just total blank canvases which, IMO, is the worst thing an actor can be.

The ones younger than them are just flat out awful at acting most of the time.

Kerr has had a lot of guest spots over the years and I think he's been a regular in some shows I never watched .

How many from the late 90s/early 2000s "teen boom" of movies and shows managed to have big A-List careers. So many tried but failed and ended up on TV like Hallmark or CW shows.

Michelle is a good actress but, I agree, she's not exciting or dynamic.

R56 Huh? She's beautiful but Selma plays a dork or weirdo very well. In fact, you'd say off-beat has always been her specialty.

[Quote] Sometimes it's better to be a supporting actor on a hit show: you get notoriety and residual good will from everyone loving the project, but no one is expecting too much from you.

Sometimes, but not always e.g Leighton Meester.

[Quote] Seemed like Williamson wanted to make a coming-out story but obviously being the main lead of a teen show in the late 90s on The WB, it wouldn't fly.

He could have done that instead of the shitty Vampire Diaries

[Quote] Kerr has had a lot of guest spots over the years and I think he's been a regular in some shows I never watched .

I think he was on Riverdale? Last time i saw him was on Stalker, which i actually preferred to The Following. The actor who played Kerr's first love interest made an appearance as well.

[quote] Then in the second season he turned into Frankenstein with the blocky head, [bold] large foreskin, [/bold]

Pics please.

Joshua jackson was so strange looking when he was young--he had a very rounded head, like a knob. That he should have grown up to be so handsome is really a surprise to me.

I love Pacey. I do think that Katie was on her way to a great career, but the Tom Cruise thing fucked it up.

[Quote] How many from the late 90s/early 2000s "teen boom" of movies and shows managed to have big A-List careers. So many tried but failed and ended up on TV like Hallmark or CW shows.

SMG, Jessica Biel, Katherine Heigl, Chris Pratt...although i never would have guessed that Jessica and Chris would fare the best.

Heigl blew her career up by being a cunt.

That is one dark black woman. Molasses level .

I guess Katherine didn't do much acting in My Father The Hero. But she really was a perfect fit for Isobel on Roswell.

The beard really helps Joshua's looks a lot, because he has a weak chin. But I'm also curious if he's had very subtle work done to his chin and neck, because when younger no matter how thin he was he always had a weak chin even with a beard or stubble, and now he looks great.

[quote]Would be even more interesting if he was gay.

Jackson played gay in one of his movies. It was very cringy, like a community theater version of stereotypic gay.

Jackson played gay in Cruel Intentions. I agree with R75 it was cringey. The 90s teen movies had token gays like this and while they tried to be progressive. Most still fell into stereotypes (effeminate, damaged, promiscuous, sassy) and one-dimensional characterizations (exist to be just a best friend, to preach a moral against homophobia, ends up dying in a tragedy).

r75, that was in "Cruel Intentions."

I agree that he was ridiculous, although i blame the writing far more than the performance. Because every gay man who saw it was mesmerized by Ryan Phillippe's beautiful body and splendid ass, people remember this movie as being much better than it actually was--it was actually not a very good adaptation of "Les Liasons dangereuses," and neither SMG nor Phillippe could act their ways out of paper bags.

Very few of those late 90s teen flicks aged well except imo I Know What You Did Last Summer, Scream, Empire Records, 10 Things I Hate About You and Go. I liked Can't Hardly Wait but mainly because Ethan Embry who was underutilized as a teen star because he was so adorkable.

I'd add She's All That and A Walk to Remember (although it's slightly newer from 2002) as movies from that era that have aged relatively well.

Joshua was sexiest on Dawson's Creek but everything else OP said is a surprise. But funny enough, they were my favorites on the show so maybe I wasn't alone.

r78 She's All That needs a spot on your list for being THE iconic late 90's high school movie. What a run those types had. But also "American Pie" because it captured the carefree late-90s in a way few other goofy teen movies have. It also cemented sayings like MILF and I was just hitting puberty when it came out so I spilled so many loads thinking about Stifler drinking my cum or taking me up to a bedroom to play around.

I agree but I was reluctant to add She's All That and American Pie to the list because some of the humor may read as sexist today, R81. But they are definitely classics of the era.

Technically the 90s didn't end until 2001. The aura changed after 9/11 and by 2003, it was completely different.

Not Another Teen Movie, A Walk To Remember, Road Trip, Van Wilder, Dude Where's My Car and The Princess Diaries could be considered the last of the late 90s run. R79

I think the Hilary Duff/Lindsay Lohan/Bow Wow/Amanda Bynes/Cheetah Girls era of the mid-2000s was so different. Way more kid friendly except Mean Girls and Saved.

The later 2000s/early 2010z had a revival of both 80s John Hughes and late 90s sex comedy teen flicks with Accepted, Superbad, Easy A, Juno, Charlie Bartlett, Nick and Nora, Zombieland, Sex Drive, Fright Night, Scott Pilgrim and The House Bunny.

I'll just note that one thing that died with the 90s teen flicks, were the iconic wall way scenes from popular girls. "Mean Girls" was the last to give us that popular girl strut.

But often forgotten "Jawbreaker" did it best, even though they looks like 30 year old moms more than 18 year olds. Must have pumped their Diet Cokes full of hormones.

his wife has no boobs

Joshua got into the DEEP swirl…a Nubian goddess. And Diane rebounded with a homeless drug addict who hasn’t seen a bar of soap in a decade.

[Quote] and neither SMG nor Phillippe could act their ways out of paper bags.

I disagree, SMG is good at being bitchy.

[Quote] She's All That needs a spot on your list for being THE iconic late 90's high school movie. What a run those types had.

And naturally the remake on Netflix was complete trash. I screamed when i saw who played the popular jock. Who on earth thought he could pass as straight?!

Whatever happened to Rachel Leigh cook? It seems she doesn't act anymore.

Whew. I swear, whenever White men get Black women, they usually get the Blackest, most original, straight from the motherland looking Black woman they can find. He said "Absolutely, [bold]no[/bold] milk in my coffee, please and thank you." Alrighty then.

r89 not always

This is the third thread with that photo as the anchor.

Someone is really trying too hard and I su sd pect it's not on behalf of the Mr but the Missus.

No r89, but they do tend to get accomplished women, save for Robert DeNiro’s current wife.

I don't think white men care as much about complexions as Black people do. I don't hear white men mock a black woman for being dark like other black people do. I'm black myself and I cringe that intraracial colorism is still an issue. Many men in general like any woman who's hot. Of course, racial preferences exist (and they're valid to the individual) but not every man is the same in what they like and plenty have an open mind.

It's all I've every thought about, OP. You've tapped into my most inner deep thoughts hope fears dreams and desires. If you could tell me who these people are again, please?

I thought her dress was gorgeous and very on theme (gilded Hollywood). Can't say the same for others..

[quote][R89] not always

I did say [bold]usually.[/bold]

[quote]I don't think white men care as much about complexions as Black people do.

Maybe not as consciously as we are, certainly, but there is definitely something that draws them in on an unconscious level. I think they may be fascinated by dark skintones or skintones that are so vastly different than theirs and find beauty in it, whereas we, on the other hand tend to associate dark skin with "ugliness" especially on Black women.

Say what you will, but dark-skinned Black women tend to get [bold]more[/bold] appreciation for their skin from White men compared to Black men. That's probably why when you see an interracial couple like this, she's usually super dark. Where Black men will shame her for her skin, White men will see beauty in it. Black people are color struck. As all hell.

R96 Yep. I'm light-skinned black male and as a kid. I used to be complimented all the time for "good hair" and "pretty complexion". And my darker relatives used to tease me and say "you think you're better because you're lighter" or "stay out the sun or you'll be black like us." That colorism is so internalized and both Black men and women are guilty of perpetuating it. I have darker skinned male friends (like coal black complexion) who admitted they would get bullied. And those Steph Curry jokes are so cringe. And #teamlightskin and #teamdarkskin ugh.

I know dark skinned women who are beautiful, educated, happy, successful, sweet and carefree and they do pair up with men of different races. I've met White and Asian men who love black women. I don't get the stereotype that dark skinned women are bitter and nasty either. I find light skinned women tend to be more ratchet and high maintenance. Some biracial women have mental issues with their identity and being fetishized in both the white and black worlds. Black men are all over light-skinned or mixed chicks but not always the high earners or mentally stable ones.

I think this is more stark along the coasts, but black (American) men are, for the most part, not interested in dating darker skinned black women, especially if they are well educated. I would say probably 80% of my (black women) friends are married to or in long term relationships with non-black men, mainly white and Asian. I think this pattern is just going to become more commonplace.

r97 The exact same thing happened to me. I'm fair skinned (on Tisha Campbell's order) and the bullying I got from our own people growing up was simply awful; mostly from darker skinned Black girls. I was also bullied for "talking White" and being thin and having "nappy hair" (which is normal for us).

At the end of the day, these are remnants of slavery and White supremacy. The strongest form of abuse that an abuser can inflict is abuse that convinces the victim that they are less than. That is what happened with our community. In many ways, we are still "mentally" enslaved and it's impeding our ability to move forward. We keep fighting for "Whites" (who may or may not even like us) to accept us, when we still have issues accepting ourselves. That's where our energy, in my opinion, needs to be re-focused. Because frankly, I couldn't care less if White people like and/or "accept us" or not. Kudos to Mr. Jackson and his 'Queen of Sheba' but we've got a lot of work to do. Our women shouldn't have to go outside of their race to find acceptance and be told they're beautiful. Especially not the race that is historically responsible for the problem.*

* = I'm speaking in general terms. Obviously, all Whites today, aren't responsible for the bullshit others in their demographic pulled in the past.

These last few quotes and conversations are so stupid. Who cares about you're fake childhood stories or about the skin color of Joshua's wife.

R88 she was in He's All That and the only charming character in it. Fuck whoever thought it was a good idea to cut out most of Matthew Lillard's scenes. Also sucks she got divorced from Daniel. He was pretty popular on The Vampire Diaries.

I have in between skin. Dark skinned folks call me yellow. Light skinned people call me borderline.

White Michelle Williams or Black Michelle Williams?

R102 It's really relative. I am around the shade of Pharrell or Ginuwine. A reddish light brown complexion. Light-skinned mother with a dark-skinned father. Down South and to Africans and Caribbeans, I'm definitely light-skinned. Africans from Ghana and Kenya don't even consider me black. To high yellow people like Prince or Raven Symone complexion, I'm considered medium-brown. But to biracials, nonblack Hispanic or Indians, I'm dark-skinned. And that's not even getting into lighting. Some photos I look very light, others I look very brown.