Watching Light in the Piazza. Is this how to 'get rid of' beautiful mentally ill children?

It was pretty gross how her parents were so willing to marry her off to a virtual stranger in a foreign country, despite her being mentally still a child.

If it worked Joe Kennedy would have done it.

Total Trivia: I grew up in Winston-Salem. When this film first played there on its initial release, there were only two local theaters and the one that showed it took a quarter page ad in the local paper that screamed in giant letters "WINSTON-SALEM IS MENTIONED FOUR TIMES IN THIS MOVIE!"

R2 Yes, how was this acceptable as 'charming'? The sweet girl was being foisted off on the Italian family simply because her lack of mental acuity was seen as a lack of the Italian language. Yes, she was beautiful, but the theme of the book and the movie is awful.

The plot twist is George Hamilton is mentally undeveloped too right? A weird plot - but having just watched Lolita on TCM, the early 60s were wide open to new ideas.

I thought the pimp-grift theme was kind of sweet.

R5 Wow - thank you! I didn't look at it that way . They may have been a perfect match!

And think of the beautiful (albeit dim) children they'd have! And lots of them because Italians don't believe in birth control!

It’s a movie, not real life- and a story of a protective mother (for good reasons) taking a chance and letting go. It’s sweet and not a template for anything. Relax.

If those 2 beautiful but dim young people were cats, kind-hearted people would get them neutered so they wouldn't produce endless streams of beautiful but dim kittens.

This became a Broadway musical about 15 or so years ago.

I saw the movie and I don’t see it at all the way the hysterical OP sees it. She wasn’t being pawned off or pimped out. You fail you woke Mary OP. Stop trying to make things up.

R11 Really? Did you see it? I need to Google it - Thanks.

Did anyone see this?

The musical is very sweet. The score is lovely, by Adam Guettel, the grandson of Richard Rodgers. It was a minor critical hit on Broadway but I'm not sure whether it actually made back its money. Fortunately, PBS taped and broadcast it with most of the original cast. Union contracts forbid its being released commercially but it's an easy boot to find and it shows up regularly on youtube before it gets pulled.

on the Tonys...

[quote]Fortunately, PBS taped and broadcast it with most of the original cast.

Not really, r15...

R16 Thank you!

My aunt always said I was a little light in the piazza.

R10, I've had a couple of incredibly stupid cats, and it turns out that stupid cats make better pets than smart ones! Smart cats will tear your house apart looking for anything of interest, but it'd never occur to a stupid cat to do anything bad. My stupid cats have been the sweetest, cutest, best-behaved cats I've ever had.

Stupid doesn't matter when you'll never have to do anything as complex as earning a living.

R20, you've never heard "You're not very bright, are you? I like that in a man."

Was it a twist that the George Hamilton character was a bit “slow” as well?

Ah well. So long as Olivia had taught Yvette to cook and clean and look the other way when her man comes drunk and ready to slap her, she would have done well in the Italy of that era.

I thought the mother was much more concerned and Clara was less charming and more childish and unhinged in the musical. But it worked. The movie works because Yvette is so gorgeous who would ever suspect anything was wrong.

During that era, the options were keeping someone home or institutionalization (which ran the gamut, based on what you could afford.) In fact, the labotomy era was just winding down.

The daughter’s degree of retardation (that’s what they called it then) was never delved into particularly deeply, but she was drawn as simple, childlike, and gentle. She was not portrayed as hysterical and violent, as was typically the depiction in films. (Paging Dr. Sugar!)

It was, as stated, fiction, and therefore overly simplistic: Olivia certainly got the best hand in terms of developmentally disabled children. Not to mention, Mimieux was stunningly beautiful and looked great in her Via Veneto fashions.

The other cliche was that of the “simple, Italian family,” grateful for the Americans…a very common trope as the post war years ushered in a strong US dollar, an enormous jump in air travel, and a boom in Italian tourism.

The daughter was so lovely and graceful and simple—and there was a language barrier—that her disability was a non-issue. The daughter loved animals and babies and would be a mother to molti bambini living life as a simple peasant. Kind of the other side of Zohra Lampert and Warren Beatty (in Splendor in the Grass), another depiction of Italian peasantry, this time in New Haven and later, Kansas.

Ultimately, as stated here, it was about Olivia letting go and giving her daughter a chance for a fulfilling life as a wife and mother, something she could never achieve in the US.

The girl was NOT genetically dim. She was kick in the head by a pony, or something like that.

The story isn't offensive. The young man is harmless and likes her. She may have limited IQ but she has woman's hormones and desires. He will fuck her and love her and she will return the same. Money is no object. They will live protected, unproductive lives.

I mean really. Are YOU all retarded to miss the fact that the girl was not born a retard? She could have perfectly intelligent kids.

Who said she was “born a retard” or “genetically dim?” The issue was how she was perceived in her present state, which was mildly retarded.

it's the Italians are superficial and brain-dead movie so it will all work out in the end

I think there's also the possibility that she was raised by such over-protective parents who feared she was damaged goods, that perhaps she isn't nearly as damaged as the parents have led themselves to believe.

R27 The people above who suggest she should procreate more retards.

R29 - like Laura in Glass Menagerie

*should NOT make retard babies

What is the bullshit about the “Italian peasantry?” Fabrizio’s family may not have been as wealthy as the American family, but, they were clearly not impoverished. They were living well, in a fine house which was furnished tastefully with art on the walls, wearing fashionable clothes and employing servants.

Furthermore, Clara’s sweetness was what impressed them, not being bamboozled by a language barrier like rubes.

There’s a lot of hidden bigotry here.

It's the resident racist DL "Italians Are Not White" contingent. Always so delightful.

I will always cherish Olivia DeHavilland's amazement when she says, "I'm going to have to DO something!" A sheltered woman who's never had to make a decision in her life.

WHAT ON EARTH IS A PIAZZA? IS THAT LIKE A PINYATTA?

So are people missing that George Hamilton was a retard too? The whole catch is that the father is hoping to pawn off his son too,

R30 her present state is due to a head injury she received as a child and is not genetic

R38 that is the point I made at R25 hun.

R39 didn't realize I was responding to the same poster and wasn't responding to the comment at R25 anyway😛😁😊😂😍🤣

Thanks to several of the above posts, I'm looking forward to watching this film again. The idea that Fabrizio may also be locked into a childlike persona (for whatever reason) is intriguing. Was that brought out in the book?

Fabrizio has the mind of a 13 year old boy but his 9 inch cock is all man.

[quote] Thanks to several of the above posts, I'm looking forward to watching this film again. The idea that Fabrizio may also be locked into a childlike persona (for whatever reason) is intriguing. Was that brought out in the book?

I think that’s why his family was accepting of the pairing - a woman of standard intelligence may have disrespected him, cheated on him, used him for his money. This beautiful, stupid girl will give him lots of equally beautiful babies until the family decide she needs a hysterectomy and they will raise them under the watchful eye of his wealthy family.

Though I doubt they will be all that happy as they age, going into the 1970s and 1980s.

bump

The title song from the musical was beautiful. I remember really enjoying the show - it was beautifully done even if the story was a little odd.

This is the one that gets me.

My favorite song was "I may have an IQ of 80 but I'm hot for you."

Any changes between the book and the movie? I loved the movie.

Is LITP a bit like the Australian film Tim in which Piper Laurie nails tard Tim (Mel Gibson) to the cross?

Was the play one of those nudie shows?

Can't believe Dame Olivia was 44 in this. That hairdo made her look fucking ancient.

Hamilton is not convincing as an Italian.

Every single poster in this thread is missing the point.

Clara had the mental development of a 9 year old and wouldn’t mature further.

It’s irrelevant what her physical development was. She didn’t have the mental capacity to consent to anything. Having sex with her would be tantamount to having sex with a child — I.e., rape.

This movie gives me the creeps.

Except you've missed the point, R53. In the story, Clara's parents assume that she won't develop mentally -but on the trip to Italy she begins to demonstrate more mature feelings and aspirations. Her mother sees this, but is afraid to believe it. In the end, she takes a leap of faith in the hope that her daughter finds happiness.

It's not always about sex -not even on Datalounge.

Her Italian is decent for someone with "the mental development of a 9 year old", although she did use the feminine version of a noun rather than the masculine in at least one instance.

No, she did not develop mentally at all… unless you consider picking up off the ground and eating whatever was thrown at her and Fabrizio after the wedding to be mature behavior. That was a sign she was emotionally 9 years old. Hell, even when I was 9 I would never have eaten anything off the ground.

[quote] I think there's also the possibility that she was raised by such over-protective parents who feared she was damaged goods, that perhaps she isn't nearly as damaged as the parents have led themselves to believe.

R29 could there have been a little Munchausen's going on?

[quote]Hamilton is not convincing as an Italian.

R57 Have you seen (or heard) Warren Beatty in The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone? Yikes. I don't know which was worse - Hamilton or Beatty.

[quote] The other cliche was that of the “simple, Italian family,” grateful for the Americans…a very common trope as the post war years ushered in a strong US dollar, an enormous jump in air travel, and a boom in Italian tourism.

Into the 1950s Italy still forbade taking money or valuable out of the country. It was still recovering from WW2 as were all other European countries as well as the UK. The US can be oblivious as to how much other countries suffered during the war. Which is why they are so hell bent on preventing another war.

When my Italian grandfather went home after his father died in the early 1950s he was not allowed to take his inheritance out of the country - certainly not any money. He was able to "smuggle" some jewelry and artwork out though.

Definitely Beatty is worse. At least Hamilton looks Italian with his perma-tan.

The movie is wonderful, so touching, Olivia is grand, Yvette is great, and this...

Sounds lovely. Makes me wish Audrey Hepburn’s princess was retarded in Roman Holiday, or that the TV movie would have been Rosie O’Donnell in Riding the Vespa with My Sister.

Retard!

I love the father who is annoyed that he HAD TO LEAVE WORK to deal with his wife & daughter when the daughter got kicked out of the fancy boarding school.

I always saw this movie as a love story between two attractive, wealthy dimwits - sort of like A Very Beckham Family Wedding.

Someone needs to musicalize the Shaun Cassidy/Linda Purl TV movie ‘Like Normal People’ like yesterday!

Two attractive Beckhams? Huh?

The mother does try to separate the two dumb young lovers and the daughter shows at that point that she's formed a romantic attachment to the young dumb guy that seems more adult than a 9 year old. She's brain-damaged, so she's more developed in some ways than in others. She can't really live independently or manage complex work or a college education, but if she marries into this Italian family, she won't need to. She'll be sheltered, but she'll be able to have marriage, sex, friends, a family. Fabrizio's not brain damaged, but his father says he's not too smart and the indication is that Fabrizio's religious mother is none-too-bright either. Both the parents (deHavilland and Brazzi) seem to have an understanding about the limits of the two kids.

I thought it was an interesting, rather nuanced movie that holds up suprisingly well because of it.

[quote] Having sex with her would be tantamount to having sex with a child — I.e., rape.

Oh, please!

Why would anybody put Light in the Pizza? Pepperoni or mushrooms are much better.

hardeeharhar

They sure didn't go light on the cheese.

R56, wasn’t it George Hamilton’s character who picked up something off the floor and ate it?

IIRC (and I may not), in the novel she was kicked in the head by a horse when she was a child—that was the source of her cognitive impairment, not innate genetic or neurological impairments, so her children would not inherit her impairment. The novel inspired a great recent novel by Jane Hamilton, “When Madeline wasYoung.”

The mother had other, more efficient options for dealing with Clara.

Are you Jane Hamilton, R73?

R72, Clara did it first. Then he imitated her.

[quote]Hamilton is not convincing as an Italian.

Neither was Matthew Morrison in the musical.

I love LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA. it's a wonderful movie about faith, and grace. I had no idea it was so well known.

It's about to start on TCM!

When I saw the musical at Lincoln Center, Marian Seldes was seated next me. I remember thinking to myself "little gay boy from Indiana, you've really made it". It's a lovely musical.

I agree, OP. This movie is really sick.

Clara had a traumatic brain injury. She was kicked in the head by a horse. So it wasn’t something g kids could inherit.

BUT she had the mental capacity of a 9 year old. And her mother is A-OK with her having sex?! Beyond sick and those of you defending it are crazy.

Aaron Lazar starred as Fabrizio in the Lincoln Center production. I thought he was so beautiful. Now he has ALS. I’m so saddened.

Mentally ill adults can and do have sex and have the right to have sex. The Italian young man is a dimwit. It's a perfect match. Did you delicate sparkle ponies pay attention? Or do you go through life being outraged about shit everyday, such as a movie over 60 years old that represents another culture and ethos? Were you dropped on YOUR head as a child?

And the reviews are in! “You’ll wish your own daughter was retarded!”-New York Times

“Bueno belle morono!”-Corriere della Sera

“Four dunce caps up- -way up!”-Variety