Why did Kurt Cobain marry Courtney Love?

Because only Nixon can go to China.

Courtney has game….she also smashed Gavin Rossdale and Ed Norton.

D-R-U-G-S

Their poor daughter inherited Courtney's looks instead of his.

Courtney was of his world. Plus I don't think he was aware of how attractive he was and he wanted to be mothered.

low self-esteem

r4 She got surgery to look more like Kurt.

R2 and Liam Gallagher

Because she was packing 8 inches. Kurt was a faggot.

Kurt was high on heroin the whole time. He probably didn't realize that they married.

She also bagged Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro.

Shy people are attracted to outgoing extroverts. The success of Nirvana could probably be attributed to Courtney, because she knew how to schmooze and work the room. Those 3 dweebs would still be playing dives in Aberdeen.

She was as unattractive as Betty Hutton.

Some men like domineering women.

R12, you couldn't be more wrong. So wrong I'm not even go to waste time telling you why.

As to why Kurt fell for her? She was exciting and loud and full of life and self destructive and probably rocked his world in bed. Kurt was never really into the bombshell type. All of his ex girlfriends were more homely than not.

Google Tracy Marander.

R15 is correct. Having known the whore (after he died).

She also fucked Steve Coogan.

R12 = Courtney Love

To tell the truth/it hurt her pride . . .

Ahem…

because of her HOLE

"She also bagged Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro"

The guy who works the night shift at the gas station

The guy who cuts her grass

The bag boy at Piggly-Wiggly

The kid at McDonald's...

Courtney was considered hot in the 90s. I had a friend who couldn't stop talking about how beautiful he thought Courney was.

^ I don't remember that. At best she was a fuckable drugged-out party girl. She may brag on the prime dick she's gotten, but I never heard one guy brag on bagging her

R24 probably it was my friend that had a weird taste, i suppose the platinum hair and ultra white skin actracted him. I never understood her appeal but taking what my friend said and her long list of celebrities i thought she was considered hot .

Courtney is a genius and was a great rock singer at that time (and still is) Brains are attractive.

She may have a high IQ, but it's all negated by her sloppy, slutty appearance and persona

You all do know that Courtney Love is actually Tina Yothers.

Come to think of it, Tina and Courtney have never been seen together in the same place 🤔

because he’s a self proclaimed feminist who admires how dominant she is while others call her a “bitch”

Always enjoyed the story about Prince Andrew turning up at Courtney's at 1am along with one of his protection officers, looking for sex. She says that it was surreal as she offered him a cup of tea instead, served out of a ‘vintage china cup with the Queen’s face on it’.

It's probably mostly sex, isn't it.

R8 I doubt Courtney could understand a word of his thick Mancunian accent - it barely sounds like English :

They enabled each other.

Does she bang guys to get inspiration for songs? Can one match something from her oeuvre to each guy?

Courtney, in a drug fueled mania on live TV, hurling makeup at a self righteous Madonna never gets old. All her sins are forgiven for this one moment.

Because he loved her.

Didn't she want him to fuck Michael Stipe or something? He probably would have been a lot happier if he had.

Courtney’s kind of a cypher. In the 90s she came across as drug-addled, chaotic and scatterbrained, but someone managed to be hyper-focused, sly and career oriented at the same time.

^ somehow

She did that voodoo thing that Jada did on Will Smith. And she could suck like a Hoover vacuum!

Something I learned that recently impressed me about her. Empire of Pain, about the evil, evil Sacklers and their decimation of America with opioids addiction told the story about how one of the Sackler married wives started her own fashion line and wanted to promote it as edgy and hire Courtney to come to her fashion show to give it some credibility. She offered her $100K and Courtney told her to go fuck herself considering what she’s been through in her life surrounding addiction. That was impressive. Though her suing Asian guy from 13 Reasons Why for guitar stealing and manipulation was weird.

Codependency.

Some wimpy men like to be dominated, and hide behind a pushy woman.

She was gorgeous in the music video for Celebrity Skin. Very ethereal face, and a sexy body.

Courtney had several cosmetic tweaks that were very shrewd.

Why did you ask me why Kurt married Courtney?

"Some wimpy men like to be dominated, and hide behind a pushy woman. "

Truth, every Karen is a potential "Courtney" with a "Kurt" at home in front of the TV sucking down beers

For two reasons, OP: he was an idiot who had severe psychological problems and she is a predatory narcissist who learned how to easily manipulate and exploit him.

The rest is ridiculously romanticized pop history.

Junkies like to be with other junkies, or at least people who are severely fucked up. It's the best way to be sure that your partner will never call you on your shit, because they're eyeball-deep in the same shit. Addicts wallow together.

R41 100k for Love is pocket chance. She got Nirvana money.

^change^

Everyone hates Courtney Love, and she is a dark triad bipolar mess, BUT, however, she is also a very talented musician. Her "eccentric" personality would be not just tolerated, but celebrated, were she a man.

I think he loved her because she was pretty, outspoken, and talented. Hole was an amazing band. "Live Through This" was a genius album.

An amazing band with essentially one good record, and a great musical talent that doesn't make any music in 30 years?

Love Through This is a touchstone solid album. No filler. Celebrity Skin is also solid; pop-rock with some Fleetwood Mac sparkle. Aspects are cowritten with the likes of Billy Corgan.

Hole should be included in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

R47 How was he an idiot? He came of as extremely intelligent.

Who knows? She has always seemed obnoxious to me, although I do think she is talented. Did she make him pregnant?

I never understood the whole "Kurt didn't know he was hot" thing. He must've had some idea.

That 'Heavier than Heaven' biography of Kurt describes her appeal well. Even before she scrubbed up, she had piercing eyes, high cheekbones and long legs. I do think the 'weak guy' looking for a 'strong protective woman' trope comes into play here. Plus she has always been a larger than life personality. Fierce, intelligent, funny, charismatic (maybe not to us) and brutally honest. These people have a way of sucking you into their orbit and blazing a trail wherever they go.

She also had immense stage presence, and Hole's first album was more successful than Nirvana's Bleach. She was exciting, and they both bonded over literature and poetry. I was a huge Nirvana fan back in the day and some of the lyrics, poetry, and art they did for each other is *incredibly* romantic (even if a bit drug-induced and creepy at times, it seems they really loved each other).

Plus you know she's probably amazing in bed. Erykah Badu has a similar thing going on where you know they have that magic pussy that just seems to be able to hook any number of quality men.

She fucked Billy Corgan too, ouch.

[quote] some of the lyrics, poetry, and art they did for each other is *incredibly* romantic (even if a bit drug-induced and creepy at times, it seems they really loved each other).

Link? Never seen this content, and am piqued.

Cobain seems like he'd have been really boring, always whining about how sad he was and smacked to the eyeballs.

Supposedly this is the best interview? There's not much there. And I suspect that the interviewer was cute and/or had drugs.

From a thread awhile back about Courtney and Kurt she was going to be an ex vs. a widow, and widows always get better press. She slipped him rohypnol while the band was touring, almost killing him, then he 'killed himself ' which after seeing an independent doc about the timelines and the two different types of writing in the letter, was beyond suspicious.

Then an original member of Hole had gotten clean, left the band was about to move, the night before she was to leave with a packed U-Haul and she mysteriously OD'd. She was an important part of the band as she wrote the most content for the band.

Courtney's beyond shady. On another note, it took some serious stones for her to out Weinstein on the red carpet, in the mid 2000s.

Cobain comes across as asexual.

September 1, 1992:

[quote]She definitely relishes her position as Mrs. Kurt Cobain. It was one of her goals, not something she left up to fate. The couple first met eight or so years ago in Portland. “Back then,” she recalls, “we didn’t have an emotion towards each other. It was, like, ‘Are you coming over to my house?’ ‘Are you going to get it up?’ ‘Fuck you.’ That sort of thing.”

[quote]By the time they met again, Kurt was a star and Courtney was much less casual in her approach. She realized that, when it comes to romance, aggressive behavior can be very appealing. “People say, ‘How did she get Kurt?’ ” says one friend. “Well, she asked. And she wouldn’t take no for an answer.”

[quote]Courtney pursued him for months—got his number, called him, told interviewers that she had a crush on him. She even resorted to religion. “Courtney chanted for the coolest guy in rock ‘n’ roll—which, to her mind, was Kurt—to be her boyfriend,” says Jimmy Boyle, a friend who works for Def American. Finally, she persuaded an eager-to-please prospective manager to give her tickets (plane and concert) to a Nirvana show in Chicago.

[quote]“I was there in Chicago when they consummated their relationship,” says Danny Goldberg, senior V.P. at Polygram and Nirvana’s (and now Hole’s) manager. “We chatted for a while and Courtney worked her way into the other room, where Kurt was. I didn’t see sparks, but they did go home together. [bold]That was in early October. They were married in February[/bold].”

[quote]It wasn’t really quite that simple. Initially, Kurt had his doubts. Reportedly, he had been too busy recording and then touring with Nirvana to focus much on romance. “Kurt is very smart,” says one friend, “but he’s shy. A lot of people mistake that shyness for a lack of confidence, but he does know his own mind. [bold]When Courtney showed up I think he was attracted to her flamboyance. She was very sexual and I think she just took him over. He went on TV and said she was the best fuck in the world.”[/bold]

[quote][bold]By the time he proposed (“I just knew he should ask me if he had any brains at all”), she was pregnant.[/bold] The wedding was in Hawaii: Kurt, who once planned to wear a dress, wore pajamas, and Courtney wore “a white diaphanous item that had dry rot. It had been Frances Farmer’s in a movie.” [bold]She signed a pre-nuptial agreement (her idea) and they did not go on a honeymoon[/bold]. “Life is like a perennial honeymoon right now,” she says. “I get to go to the bank machine every day.”

She was probably dynamite in the sack.

dysfunctional childhood bonding, mental issues and drugs.

but all in all, he was a poof and she was a hag.

r64 post fame, maybe. pre fame, rough trade.

he inevitably would have ended up in the indie>country>folk scene had he not splattered the walls.

R60 There is tonnes of it in her coffee table book 'Dirty Blonde', if you can get your hands on it (maybe it's online for free somewhere). Letters, scribblings, paintings, poems, faxes they sent, photographs accompanied by inscriptions. It's actually a beautifully put together book that charts her entire life, you can see how ambitious she was to be famous and how hard she worked at it (it also includes her well-known rejection letter from the Mickey Mouse Club).

You can also get The Kurt Cobain Journals where many poems and writings are for Courtney. It's not quite as good as the above, but still has some nice ones. Also some of their work in early album art or scrapbooks (he used to draw her with wings a lot and vice versa). Bottom left is an image of the actual Heart Shaped Box that inspired Kurt to write the song. Courtney decorated it herself, filled it with personal items, and gifted it to him. Another photo of it appears as the artwork on the Nirvana single.

Romantic gifts like this are not so common in most couples, especially not celebrity ones that are accompanied by a maelstrom of drugs and negative media attention. They seemed to really openly display their affection for each other. Whether or not they had a healthy relationship, I believe they really did love each other at the time.

You'd think Courtney would have more of a gay following? Why not?

R60 and to balance it out here is one from the [published] Kurt Cobain journals where he writes her this letter explaining that he will always love her no matter what the media says about her. He seemed quite infatuated with her (I remember him saying "Courtney Love is the best fuck in the world" at a concert, and he was normally quite low-key).

I wonder if Courtney stopped with the hot sex once they got married, as usually is the case.

She got alternahunk Evan Dando.

I've always liked Courtney.

[quote] She also fucked Steve Coogan.

Lucky bitch

"One of my life's great shames"

Says the woman with no shame...

The Vanity Fair profile upthread is the one that did get CPS called on Kurt and Courtney, resulting in Frances Bean being removed from their care temporarily. There's a song on Live Through This about it.

I still think monsters are made, not born, and what Courtney endured as a child....I'm surprised she is as functional as she is. She'd be exhausting to cope with long term, no doubt. But sometimes she has amazing clarity in what she sees - she clocked Madonna for what she is ages ago:

[quote] Not surprisingly, she also has a few concerns about Madonna. “I didn’t want to get involved with her, because she’s a bad enemy to have,” Courtney says, giving a navy dress a closer inspection. “I don’t want her to know anything about me, because she’ll steal what she can. What I have is mine and she can’t fuckin’ have it. She’s not going to be able to write lyrics like me, and even if she does get up onstage with a guitar, it’s not going to last. I don’t care how vain and arrogant this sounds, but just watch: in her next video, Madonna’s going to have roots. She’s going to have smeared eyeliner. And that’s me.”

R77, speaking of Madonna...

So, essentially she stalked him and then fucked his brains out.

To paraphrase someone from royalty: you sleep with groupies. you don't marry them.

By all accounts he was not very romantically experienced at the time. He never stood a chance dealing with the dragon lady.

Courtney gave the best shrimp job in Portland.

She's stunning in a offbeat way. I wouldn't say beautiful but she had flawless skin, well shaped legs, striking blue eyes and pouty lips. Obvious had some work done young but it was good work. Straight men definitely wanted to fuck someone like her. She's slutty and had a nice figure plus blonde with blue eyes. Same reason straight men wanted Madonna. Slutty bad girls are a common fantasy.

Didn't Kurt actually write Live Through This, or was that anti-Courtney gossip?

She was gross looking before all the surgery. I read she basically did stalk him and was determined. How did Yoko get John? Same concept.

I think Billy Corgan supposedly wrote Live Through This, R83.

He knocked her up.

R77 Wow. She was right.

What a rancid succubus she is.

I know people who were around them during “phase one” in Chicago. Billy was upstairs in a brownstone at a party, she was down in the street, stumbling drunk, screaming at Billy that if he didn’t come down (or something, I can’t remember exactly why) that she was “going to fucking marry Kurt!!!” And within two weeks they were married, so that is the OG story I received from people at that party, one of whom is now my ex-husband. The entire party despised her and we’re all asking, “who the fuck is the crazy fucking banshee?!??”

R41 Courtney is a badass.

Rumour has it that Kurt had a gay lover in LA. Supposedly an 'artist'.

A depressed man was being controlled by a manipulative bitch.

The original Courtney. Her father's daughter.

The real original Courtney. Her father's daughter.

Obviously not FWA Twigs.

I'm surprised they were able to conceive, and that she was able to carry the pregnancy to term.

r28 That's the face Frances inherited.

In the interview at R62 Kurt is lucid, intelligent, real, and pretty good-humored. He does not seem or sound like someone about to take his own life. Sad he didn't find a way to stop using drugs.

I think he was trying to bang the interviewer. It was good though, I agree.

R74 She outed Weinstein decades ago and nowadays she's besties with Marilyn Manson and even calls him "prince". No word from her when several women accused him of beating and raping them, besides his pedophilia which is pretty well-known in the music community (Courtney herself once told in an interview that he was picking up underage girls from the crowd to abuse them while they touring together). That's your self-proclaimed "feminist"!

R77 Let's be real! Courtney has always HATED WOMEN! Especially successful women. She's a jealous bitch who can't stand when she's not the center of attention. Her history of slandering women who dared to be friends with Kurt or simply talk to him is well-known, and she was doing all of that at the same time she was spreading her legs to Billy Corgan and everyone else with a dick.

DAMN^

Love her or hate her, Courtney knows how to connect with the camera.

Is she ever going to work again?

Why??

^ Yeah, she's only worth a $100 million, bitch heeds to apply for a checkout girl job down at the Food Circus 😂

She wasn't smart enough to keep that interloper from getting his hands on the MTV Unplugged guitar.

Both Kurt and Courtney seemed on the spectrum as well. Kurt reminds me of many people with Aspergers (now high-functioning autism spectrum disorder). Courtney admitted to being autistic I think. There's also high comorbidity rate with other mood or personality disorders. I would Courtney also has narcissistic personality disorder. Kurt had bipolar disorder. Autistic people tend to be androgynous as well. Kurt was effeminate while Courtney was masculine.

Because she was feeding him heroin and got knocked up. He was seeing a nice girl named Marylou Lord at the time and Cunty started harassing and smearing this woman so she could get Kurt. She is a yoko-esque stalker and a social climber just like her hero, Nancy Spungeon. Seeking fame through men.

It’s incredible how much plastic surgery the daughter got. She looked nothing like this before. Same as Alexa Ray Joel.

I think Kurt was attracted to Courtney because she was intelligent, free-spirited and very assertive. I don't think he just started seeing her because she stalked him, he could have turned her down. Same reason John Lennon was attracted to Yoko. Yes, both Courtney and Yoko were star-fucking narcissistic stalkers but they were not idiots and it's not like Kurt and John were not already messed up before meeting them. "Nice girls" get boring to these types of men. As for Nancy Spungeon, she was severely disturbed and functionally retarded but so was Sid Vicious, they were pretty well-matched. Sid got screwed over more by the Sex Pistols exploiting him and enabling his drug habits when he was just a dumb fanboy was barely legal getting a huge platform. I'm not a fan of blaming these fucked-up men's problems on the women in their lives.

R109…. Sid had a junkie for a mother and both he and Nancy were considered sociopaths. Kurt Cobain had issues with depression and self esteem. Courtney Love is a predator and likely a Cluster B. Some sort of narcopath. John Lennon was just an asshole and he and Yoko deserved each other. Kurt was just taken in by Courtney’s superficial charm. She is a pathological liar and a psycho. She had Kurt leaving threats on a female journalist’s answering machine because she wrote an unflattering article about Cunty. That is Jada Pinkett shit. She also punched Kathleen Hannah in the face unprovoked. Then there is the business of the forged papers. Her own lawyer told Tom Grant about it and then later denied it because she is afraid of Cunty. He even recorded her talking about it. She is a con. I wonder why she never sued that detective if he is so full of shit? Makes me think she is afraid of what would come out if she took him to court.

Hasn't the rumour always been that she was spreading her legs for all of these music dudes so they would write some music for her?

Talented people don't just stop doing what they do when they get on the gravy train.

Courtney is a hurricane of many things—she's intelligent, funny, and (at times) down to earth; she's also a chaotic, abrasive, and narcissistic mess. I think she is a brilliant writer and does not get as much credit as she deserves.

Kurt seemed like the kind of person who internalized his pain, while Courtney has often done the opposite. While they had a lot in common, their demeanors were quite different—and opposites often attract, for better or worse. I'm sure he also saw talent in her. Whether you like her or not, it's hard to deny the fact that the bitch has always given it her all, even back when she was a nobody.

Courtney was admittedly an unattractive teenager, but by the time she'd met Kurt, she looked a lot different. She'd had a nose job and lost her baby fat. I think she was pretty.

I think they were drawn to each other because they were both fucked-up and had a lot in common. I don't get why people act like Courtney pointed a gun to Kurt's head and forced him to date and marry her. He choose to be with her because he liked her. He had agency and was not some a toddler. It was certainly a toxic relationship but it was a passionate one as well. People think it's odd that a shy and withdrawn guy would like an outgoing and boisterous woman who could break him out of his shell? Kurt didn't appear to be a person who would settle down with a normal, nice girl. He was serious about his artist persona and liked to challenge authority and traditions. Courtney fit the bill of a boundary-breaking anarchist spirit. It was not the healthiest relationship but it makes perfect sense why they chose each other.

Just another wreck of a man manipulated by a grasping woman.

R106 Kurt never struck me as being on the autism spectrum to be honest—he just seemed like a hardcore depressive. Courtney has said that a psychologist noted that she had signs of autism as a child, though I don't know that there was ever a formal diagnosis. She apparently was practically non-verbal for a good deal of her early childhood, which is a common symptom of autism. Assuming she is on the autism spectrum, she's clearly high-functioning, but it could also explain some of her drug use as being a form of self-medication.

I've read claims online from people who say that she (like everything else) lies about having autism for some sort of personal social gain, but I don't know why anyone would lie about something like that. Courtney's mom corroborated it in that exploitative book she wrote about her life and her relationship with Courtney. I'm sure it's true. I have seen interviews with Courtney before where you can visibly see her rocking back and forth, which is a "self-stimming" action that is observable in people with autism. You can kind of see it in some of the footage of her onstage during Hole shows too—she sometimes does repetitive motions with her hands, and will repeat things or blurt out random phrases in-between songs.

Early on, she looked practically Downs.

That must be it R117 because she only started to look halfway decent when she was in the Larry Flint movie. The person who said she has flawless skin, lol, she was totally pockmarked.

Courtney has always complained that she inherited her nose from her biological father, but if you look closely, she truly favors her mom--nose included. They have similar face shapes and the same smile too (the guy in the photo is her stepfather I believe--definitely not her biological dad). I think she projected a lot of her insecurities onto her father because he is a disgusting person.

R110 your information is incorrect. He left the threats on the journalist’s answering machine because he knew the article would make them lose custody of Frances (it talked about their drug use as parents). She punched Kathleen Hanna because she went up to Courtney and said (and this has been quoted many times) “Where’s the baby? in the closet with an IV drip?” It was not unprovoked.

Nobody is pretending Courtney has a squeaky clean record or isn’t narcissistic and ambitious (I like her music but don't find her likeable), but let’s at least deal with facts. That Mary Lou Lord chick is just as much of a star fucker. She still mentions Kurt’s name for media attention because she has done literally nothing else in her life.

I also find it odd when people paint her as some messy, fucked up, druggy and insane woman, yet simultaneously this master manipulator who somehow managed to outfox all the Nirvana people, record label execs, journalists, lawyers, criminal investigators, media to get what she wants... how can she be so out of control yet pulling all the strings? Lol.

One thing's for sure - her father is a deadbeat. Lost custody of her because he gave her LSD when she was four years old. FOUR. Autistic or not, that has to have a lasting effect on a child and probably influenced some of her behaviour. He only emerges in public to criticise her and accuse her of killing her husband, despite him having almost nothing to do with her in her life. Some people shouldn't be parents.

We don't care. She's not our icon.

She's just a fucked up old broad who was smart enough to marry someone more talented than she who ended up dead.

R122 she may not be “our icon” but her talent in music and acting is leagues of Madonna.

^leagues above

I think he married her because she was pregnant. She basically ran ripshod over him. She very aggressively pursued him and he, being of weak character, succumbed to her advances. She did the same thing with Trent Reznor (that is, pursued him with a vengance), shortly after Kurt died, but he didn't want her. That really made her made. She made nasty comments about him and told lies about him, saying he made her pregnant. He said "that would have been the second immaculate conception." I don't think he fucked her. He said he didn't and I believe him. She's told a lot of whoppers about guys who supposedly fucked her. She said Russell Crowe impregnated her. He denied ever fucking her. I believe him. She's crazy. She'll say anything.

I think it's hilarious that the only guy she rejected was Prince Andrew 😂

r91 no clue on that rumour but it was well known he was more gay leaning than straight leaning in the grunge community... whereas there were a musicians/singers flirt with homosexuality or entertained bisexuality, I wouldn't be so apt to believe it for others. From all accounts, he didn't need drugs or alcohol to be intimate with men... and he sought intimacy. It was suggested he struggled because of his childhood and abuse. . . along with the addiction issues. most of those dudes would need drugs and booze to get with a guy, he needed them to get with women. that says enough, doesn't it? There's a lot of bi-fags (closeted or more gay leaning than str8 leaning) that seek out women for a stake in normalcy but they're often tulmotous and volatile relationships prone to exaggerated public theatrics.

r125 despite many will claim their mother was, people rarely believe women can be malignant narcissists... holding onto sexist throwbacks that paint all women as purely good and moral unless corrupted, victimized by external forces. . . there are things to admire about Courtney and there are things which she is truly a victim of, however, she also has an extensive history of predation from strangers to the people closest to her... and it's all well documented.

if there was never a kid in the picture, would the reality have changed?

As a couple, they saw themselves as Sid and Nancy, who saw themselves as Bonnie and Clyde. . . destructive "power" couples. The romanticizing of rebellion.... I wouldn't even begin to know where to look but I believe Johnny Rotten had controversial opinions ont he duo as much as he had on Sid and Nancy... seeing the same parallels of stupidity.

The video at R112 just seems like Tina Yothers caterwauling. It corroborates the truth at R28.

Sid and Nancy were mentally challenged, nihilistic and had no talent. They were manufactured images glorified after death. Kurt and Courtney had talent, were at least articulate and knew what they wanted to accomplish. The resemblance is only superficial. It's possible Kurt would have broken up Nirvana, went solo or retired. I don't think Courtney would kill him if he divorced her, she would just move on to somebody else to cling on. Kurt was an addict and killing himself slowly though. If the suicide didn't happen, he would have OD'ed.

I thought it was sad they named their daughter Frances Bean. The odds were already stacked against her. Why make her middle name Bean?

[R132] They named her Bean because they said she resembled a tiny bean on the first sonogram they got of her during Courtney's preganancy.

Well then I guess it's better than Frances Embryo.

R121 her dad is truly despicable, but her mom is no saint either. She was a young dilettante who bucked responsibility over raising her daughter so she could live out a hippie fantasy life and become a therapist. Courtney was a difficult child I’m sure, but having her mother essentially abandon her and place her in someone else’s care is likely the main source of Courtney’s psychological issues.

R122 she is an icon for gay men who aren't into pop divas like Mariah, Britney, or Madonna. Her music is hard-edged but there is still a vulnerability and a soul underneath, which I think appeals to many gay men (and obviously a lot of women).

R136 Agreed. Courtney has a lot of gay fans who didn’t identify with the “Madonna” and identified with the outcast.

Hole’s Kitty Radio board was mostly women and gay men.

Now that I think about it, the original “tumblr” culture was probably from that type of scene. When you look at Hole and Riot Grrrl / Seattle zine imagery and etc it’s very tumble. Very gay and very feminist - tacky and cheap in a pretentious artsy way.

Yeah. Grunge and punk fandom is also very much nonconformist gays and women. It was socially conscious too. Not really a straight boy club like mainstream rock, metal or hip-hop.

Nirvana angled for the gay market. Kurt told interviewers he wished he was gay, etc. Maybe it was sincere, who knows. It was all Kurt though, Dave is gross and the other guy was smart enough to hide and count money.

I still want to know why this incredibly talented genius hasn't done shit since becoming a professional widow.

Talented people have to do their thing. She's done what in twentysome years? Aside spend money and name-drop people she chased and threw vag at?

^ Good point, I guess being the "Widow Cobain" is more rewarding 😏

I think the grunge singers appealed to disaffected teenagers in general (and there is a lot of crossover with gay teenagers here). Her use of flowery, poetic, phallic, and feminine imagery in her lyrics probably appealed to gay audiences too. And her unapologetic, rebellious qualities. I mean... her band's name is Hole (lol). She's the rock version of our campy pop star divas with their distinctive looks and sounds.

She and Kurt have both always been vocally pro-gay. She also gave this anti-homophobia speech when she won her fashion award, and even played the lead in a lesbian movie with Lili Taylor ('Julie Johnson', 2001 - Courtney won best actress at Outfest).

We'll never know.

R141 Mental illness and mental disorders.

Azealia Banks reminds me of Courtney Love this way. She’s extremely talented but struggles putting out music because she’s bipolar.

Some talented people need other people to ground them. Like Kanye (who I think is talented despite his craziness) recorded 300 hours of the “Yeezus” album and Rick Rubin had to go in and edit it down to 10 songs.

Courtney is the same way. She made a really nice album with Linda Perry in a couple of months and spent 5 years re-recording it and the final results were a mess.

Talent doesn’t always mean the person can make the best end results. That’s why you look at someone with a business sense like Madonna who puts talented people together to make good music but you’ll notice a lot of them don’t do much outside of her.

Courtney’s the same way and I think Eric was the one that grounded her.

[quote] I still want to know why this incredibly talented genius hasn't done shit since becoming a professional widow.

"Incredibly talented genius?" HAHAHA! You're a nutjob! But the reason why she "hasn't done shit" since Kurt's death is because she always needed someone to glom onto to help her achieve her aims and I guess there aren't many people around anymore who she can get her hooks into. After Kurt's death she had people like Billy Corgan and Kat Bjelland "helping" her; but without genuinely talented musicians writing her songs for her and "helping" her in other ways (being linked with Trent Reznor, Russell Crowe, Jim Carrey, Brad Pitt and Edward Norton gave her lots of free publicity) she's rather faded away. Of course that would be the case; she has no real talent to fall back on. Never did. She, like Yoko Ono, possessed only the talent for bringing attention to herself. But nobody is interested in her anymore.

r8 Good for Court for hopping on that dick. Young Liam Gallagher would have been a great notch for the resume. Present day, not so much...

I loved Hole as a teen! 'Pretty on the Inside' and 'Live Through This' provided soundtrack to my middle-class suburban angst and ennui.

I'm a big grunge fan, and I've read pretty much every book on and watched every documentary about it, and I've never heard that Kurt was gay outside of DL. Though in recent years trannies have tried to claim him because he wore dresses on occasion.

R146 *sound of a jet buzzing over your head

R149, that’s because he wasn’t. DL claims everyone is gay. Even dead celebrities where gay relationships would’ve been exposed before their bodies turned cold.

If the Nevermind baby tried to have a payday, at least one of Kurt's alleged gay lovers would have talked to the media for a quick buck by now. Kurt wasn't gay.

i don't think Kurt Cobain was ever gay, although he was gay friendly and would do things like wear a dress (to be outrageous, I suppose.) He was quoted as saying "I probably would have been gay if I hadn't met Courtney" but that was pure bullshit. He would say stupid things like that, probably while he was stoned. He said on some talk show that Courtney was "the best fuck in the world." He seemed high as a kite when he made THAT lunatic statement.

There were rumours of him being gay-for-pay before he made it as a musician, but I don't know how credible they are.

The video at R143...she's just *so* full of herself.

R147 I'm surprised by how good Liam still looks at almost 50 years old

R146 I think that’s nonsense.

First of all, as I said before, Courtney is talented and had the skills to assemble talented people, as all of the best artists do. Secondly, Kurt wanted to be in Hole. He preferred Eric, Kristen, and Patty over Dave and Kris.

Secondly, you’re also discrediting Eric Erlandson, who was far more talented than Billy and Kurt as a musician.

I don’t hear Kurt in Hole at all. The idea that he wrote anything is off. Are you talking lyrics? Because Courtney writes circles around Kurt and Billy. Neither of them come close to Courtney lyrically so I don’t see how anything could think they wrote anything.

From what I know, Billy’s helped with phrasing and melodies. I don’t know how much he could have contributed to that because most of his melodies are the same. I get Smashing Pumpkins songs mixed up because they all sound the same, although “1979” is a favorite.

I love Courtney’s old 80’s work with Kat. It’s very Strawberry Switchblade / Cocteau Twins.

R158 agreed. Those demos show that Courtney had some musical chops from the get-go, even if she was relying on the others for the instrumentation. It also shows that she always had a soft side. Given all the years that have gone by, hearing her singing dream pop-adjacent songs is weird. As a side note, Kat Bjelland is a great guitarist—Courtney never achieved that level of skill.

R120 don't even get me started on Mary Lou Lord. The Courtney haters love to tout her as "the woman Kurt should have married", but that bitch is nuttier than Courtney in more ways than one. All she's done for the past 20 years is talk about how "close" she was with Cobain and Elliott Smith because they spent an undetermined amount of time together in the 1990s (I think she briefly toured with Smith—her association with Cobain consisted of a day or two they spent together, and her infatuation seems like it was probably one-sided). She went so far as to produce a podcast in which she recounted her personal encounters with them. Courtney is no saint, but Mary Lou is one dizzy bitch.

It’s because Pisces and cancer go together.

Didn't Kurt lose his virginity to a mentally disabled girl under some pretty questionable circumstances? Whether straight or secretly bi/gay, I would expect his sexual attractions might not be so mainstream.

R157 I agree, I always found Courtney's lyrics much better than Kurt's anyway. Even on the recent albums like Nobody's Daugher and America's Sweetheart (which I secretly like), I prefer her references to classical literature, blistering rage, and erudite use of prose to Kurt's juvenile sarcasm (or Billy Corgan's weird and sometimes cringe lyrics). I agree she was never a great instrumentalist though. I believe Doll Parts is one of the few songs where she came up with the whole song herself on the guitar.

R162 "Cobain first sexual experiences were tragic. Cobain wanted to lose his virginity so badly he attempted to sleep with a mentally handicapped girl that his friends used to visit to steal booze from. She was open to it, but Cobain couldn't go through with it. When his peers found out about it, though, they called him "retard fucker." Cobain attempted suicide for the first time shortly thereafter by lying down on train tracks. Miraculously, the train switched tracks before he ran it him over, and the whole ordeal scared Cobain enough not to try to repeat it."

Kurt after meeting Courtney, "well, I already have the nickname."

He had scars from the train?

The retarded girl story has been throughly debunked, hasn't it? Nirvana lied to interviewers for fun.

Was he part of that group in Glen Ridge New Jersey?

R160 I agree. She should thank Courtney Love because the Courtney haters are the ones keeping her relevant.

Outside of "Live Through This" I'm not much of a fan of Courtney/Hole (most the music is too female-centric for my tastes) but I've spent a lot of time around other grunge fans and Courtney haters are exhausting.

Mary Lou Lord commented the following on this YouTube video several months back (video is an interview clip about her being Cobain's "ex"):

[quote]"Hello anyone reading. There was MUCH more to this interview than just this short piece. I hope that someday they release the whole thing because it was the only time I actually ever told this story with anyone. (ON camera, anyway).....I talked about the loss of my dear friend Elliott Smith (who was a little brother to me, and how I looked out for him, and how we shared time on the road, and our friendsip.....), Elliott also passed away....And I talked about the fact that, if Kurt had the chance to have met Elliott (the window of time between them meeting each other was tiny) -Maybe 5 months. Kurt would have adored Elliott. If they had gotten the chance to meet, I honestly think they would have made music together, and quite possibly, saved each other's lives through the love of music, and what they could have balanced out, and given each other. But alas, it never happened. But my God, I SO wish Kurt had hung on long enough to have met, befriended, and ultimately made music with Elliott. In the "extended" interview (that you do NOT see here), I told that story as well. Elliott was in Portland after finishing College at Hampshire, and Kurt died just a couple months before. Man, if they had ONLY gotten the chance to meet. It should have happened, and it would have been amazing for both of them. For Kurt to find Elliott. It quite possibly could have saved him. Just saying. SomedayI hope this entire interview (not just THIS clip) will be shown. There was SOOO much more to it, and so much more I said about those first few months of Nirvana's breaking, etc.......anyway, It meant a lot to me, and I THOUGHT they were going to run the whole story about everything I said. But, they cut is short. ANyway.....In my mind, Kurt and Elliott are together and finally met. I miss them both SO very much."

She sounds like a fucking whack job, fantasizing over two dead musicians she was tangentially associated with, andenvisioning some dream scenario where they could have "saved" each other. She writes about them like an 11-year-old girl would write Shawn Mendes fan fiction.

Sounds like one of those Britney posts.

[quote]I still want to know why this incredibly talented genius hasn't done shit since becoming a professional widow.

She had recurring roles on Sons of Anarchy, Empire and Revenge - I’ve never watched any of those shows but commercials for Empire & Sons of Anarchy were in heavy rotation across the Fox networks.

I think some people are blinded by their dislike of her because she does have talent as a song writer and as an actress. Her Golden Globe nominated role in the People vs. Larry Flynt earned her awards from the Boston, Chicago and Florida film critics associations. She was also nominated for a Critics Choice award and received nominations from the LA & New York film critics associations.

[quote]I read she basically did stalk him and was determined. How did Yoko get John? Same concept.

[quote]She is a yoko-esque stalker and a social climber just like her hero, Nancy Spungeon. Seeking fame through men.

[quote]Same reason John Lennon was attracted to Yoko. Yes, both Courtney and Yoko were star-fucking narcissistic stalkers but they were not idiots and it's not like Kurt and John were not already messed up before meeting them.

[quote]She, like Yoko Ono, possessed only the talent for bringing attention to herself.

A few years ago a thread about Kathleen Hanna turned into a thread about Courtney, this was one of the comments:

[quote]Courtney openly pursued fame and fortune, and has never claimed otherwise. The crisis of her career has been wanting to maintain her punk roots while still harvesting a mainstream appeal. Kathleen, on the other hand, was all politics—the music she made was merely a vessel for her leftist feminist political agenda. She shunned the mainstream and shunned capitalism, so it's funny seeing her marry a Beastie Boy and reaping from that wealth (and no, I am not saying she married him for money—I'm sure it was incidental, but still).

In the same thread someone quoted something Courtney said about KH in the October 2005 issue of Spin:

[quote]I still don't like her. She bugs me. Kathleen Hanna runs that ship [her relationship with Beastie Boy Adam Horovitz] in a way that is far more Yoko than I would be. I envision her being in a decked-out loft with a little corner for a desk that looks like it belongs in a poor person's East Village apartment, with her battered-women's stuff and her Ms. magazines and all her communication with leading feminists. I really liked [drummer] Tobi [Vail] and Kathleen in the beginning, and then I just thought they were hypocrites.

Courtney has been honest about who she is and appears to be very self aware, even referring to herself as Yokoesque.

[quote]She punched Kathleen Hanna because she went up to Courtney and said (and this has been quoted many times) “Where’s the baby? in the closet with an IV drip?” It was not unprovoked. Nobody is pretending Courtney has a squeaky clean record or isn’t narcissistic and ambitious (I like her music but don't find her likeable), but let’s at least deal with facts. That Mary Lou Lord chick is just as much of a star fucker. She still mentions Kurt’s name for media attention because she has done literally nothing else in her life. I also find it odd when people paint her as some messy, fucked up, druggy and insane woman, yet simultaneously this master manipulator who somehow managed to outfox all the Nirvana people, record label execs, journalists, lawyers, criminal investigators, media to get what she wants... [bold]how can she be so out of control yet pulling all the strings? Lol.[/bold]

About the Kathleen Hanna incident.

[italic]Spin[/bold], December 1995:

[quote]On the very first day of Lollapalooza, at the Gorge near George, Washington, the very worst thing that could have happened, did. Sonic Youth walked by with Kathleen Hanna.

[quote]K.H. was my husband’s worst enemy in the world, someone who would stop at nothing to aggravate us. Funny that they refer to her as being in a band. She’s not really in a band. Bikini Kill don’t really play and they don’t really write songs. She’s a political activist who took a bunch of women studies class is at Evergreen, probably the worst college in America for such things.

[quote]It’s after our set - before Sonic Youth’s - and I’m onstage talking to Beck when Eric comes up and says, ‘Kathleen’s behind you. You should give her some candy and freak her out.’ And there she was, sort of smirking at me. I dropped my sweater on the floor, and she sort of whispered under her breath, 'Where’s the baby? In a closet with an IV?’ I just snapped. My hand was filled with Skittles, and a couple of Tootsie Rolls. I just threw them up I the air and went, 'BAAAAAAAAA!’ And then she shoved me and I clocked her. This all happened within five seconds. These big bodyguards grab us, and we’re both being lifted up, and she’s screaming and screeching all sorts of things at me, and I was laughing at her, like 'Go feed the fucking homeless or something.’ I think I had a bag of tostadas as well, mixed in with the candy, so it was raining candy and tostadas everywhere. K.H. said that I attacked her and that I was on drugs and psychotic; you know, all the things that the hicks in Peoria would eat up. Then she went into Sonic Youth’s room and tattled and told them this totally exaggerated, insane story about how I had attacked her out of the blue and sucker-punched her, when in fact I had nine or ten witnesses to the contrary. She charged that I was jealous of her band, that I was ripping off Bikini Kill. I laughed really hard at that one.

[quote]K.H. suffered no damage. I barely got to hit her. Everybody in my band was really disgusted with her, as were those that had witnessed it, because a couple of people had heard what she said. She insulted my daughter and a very, very wicked and evil way. What an incredibly low thing. I actually had intended to give to her the candy and walk away.

[quote] .[On September 26 Love entered an Alford plea agreement to a charge of fourth-degree assault for her role in the Kathleen Hanna altercation. With the Alford plea, Love can have her guilty plea withdrawn and the charges dismissed if she meets the conditions set forth by the court. Love was handed a suspended one-year sentence, fined $285, and is not to punch or physically threaten anyone over the next two years.]

She had a kickass gun collection.

[quote] Courtney is talented and had the skills to assemble talented people, as all of the best artists do.

She has the talent to use people. THAT is her talent. She's like Yoko Ono, that way. Very much like her.

[quote]I think some people are blinded by their dislike of her because she does have talent as a song writer and as an actress. Her Golden Globe nominated role in the People vs. Larry Flynt earned her awards from the Boston, Chicago and Florida film critics associations. She was also nominated for a Critics Choice award and received nominations from the LA & New York film critics associations.

I'm too lazy to look it up but was she ever nominated for an Emmy or Golden Globe for her fantastic work on Family Ties? Courtney is so unbelievably talented and versatile; everything she touches just seems to turn to gold.

I feel old...

I don't like the Yoko Ono comparison because at least Courtney has written/performed some great tunes in her day. The first three Hole albums are stellar. If you want to talk about caterwauling nonsense in this conversation, Yoko is the one who should be having fingers pointed at her, not Courtney.

I think she was amazing!

Kathleen Hanna mostly sucks as an artist. Bikini Kill is fine, but far from the best band of that alt girl scene, and doesn't really deserve their current canonization, and I feel the same way about Le Tigre. It also seems like she never graduated high school emotionally, with her oppressed woman schtick when she's a rich and respected celebrity. I really would like to know more about her relationship with Ad-Rock (who I've met, really nice guy but seems permanently high, but I would be stoned too if I lived with KH and her nonsense).

Courtney constantly lies and bullshits, but I completely agree with her thoughts about Hanna, even if they come from a place of personal jealousy.

R157, Kurt wanted to be in Hole? Hmmm.

As someone who was obsessed with Kurt and Nirvana (and also really, really liked Hole), I don't remember this at all. I fear you might be fibbing. Just a little.

I will give you Eric was a better musician than Kurt (though NOT Billy - I hate the Pumpkins, but Billy is a crazy good musician), but Eric was not even close to a better songwriter. Those two things are very, very different.

Courtney is disgusting. She went through her money and then went after Frances's inheritance. She let their pets die and a dead kitten was found under a pile of books. She is a sociopath and incapable of love and was such a loser that Kurt's relatives raised Frances - who seems quite normal (after getting sober) and is currently dating Tony Hawk's son.

R177 thanks for sharing that!

I am not a fan of the Beasties (love a few songs, but overall they just aren't for me), but Adam was so charming and witty in that interview. I had no idea he was with Kathleen Hanna. Interesting. (Though I have to agree with Courtney: Kathleen really is annoying. She does come across like someone who took a few women's studies classes at Oberlin or Evergreen and then thinks she knows everything about everything.)

And how fantastic is Dan Rather? Most soothing voice ever.

I seriously doubt Hanna asked if the baby was in a closet with an IV. She was the one who wrote "Kurt smells like Teen Spirit on his wall. He probably fucked or at least admired her and Courtney's ass just cold cocked her. She's nuts.

He was searching for an old girlfriend he was convinced got lost in her snatch.

Did no one tell Kurt that you don’t have to buy the cow if you’re already getting the milk for free?

R186, he had to protect the calf inside the cow.

Really, Heart Shaped Box pretty much lays it bare: "Meat-eating orchids forgive no one just yet,

Cut myself on angel hair and baby's breath"

"Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back"

... she done trapped him with the baby!

Oh, well, I don't know if this helps or hurts my claim above:

After Lana Del Rey did a gentle rendition of this song at a 2012 concert in Australia, Courtney Love took to Twitter to give her take on the song. In a series of quickly deleted Tweets, she wrote:

@LanaDelRey you do know the song is about my vagina right? Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back umm. On top of which some of the lyrics about my vagina I contributed.

I watched The Kathleen Hanna documentary, The Punk Singer,and I was surprised that she spoke like a teenager.

Courtney's face is as ugly as her snatch. 🤮

r188 Lana has written songs about her own vagina "my pussy tastes like Pepsi Cola", so I doubt she cared.

"Courtney's band was called HOLE. Not "whole" as in "complete." "HOLE," as in "dirty, stinky pussy!"

"What a whore Courtney is! She'd suck a dick for a Diet Coke. Don't worry, honey. I do it just for the taste of it!"

R189 That documentary made me go from being vaguely annoyed by her to HATING her. I like that entire 90s music scene, so I watched it. Kathleen is so self-important and acts as if she practically founded the third wave of feminism with her little zines and corny catchphrases. The fact everyone in her life seems to totally indulge her bullshit is bonkers.

Also, why don't she and Ad-Rock ever talk about their son? I've seen him mentioned in passing in some recent Beastie Boys profiles (I'm a big fan, yes), but never directly from either of them. Is the son special needs? Was he a surrogate, and she's hiding that fact because it makes her look like a "bad feminist?"

Courtney Love, a bisexual, junkie stripper, played Althea Flynt, a bi-sexual junkie stripper. What an acting stretch!

Agree R193. Hanna has an elitist streak in her that has always rubbed me the wrong way. She also is not nearly as intelligent as she thinks she is. Courtney might be a narcissist, but she's not pretentious, and I get the sense that she was always an outsider to that whole scene because she didn't entertain their nonsense. "Olympia" (or "Rock Star", as it's mislabeled on the album) is the most salient, funniest drag of that entire Evergreen State College "movement" ever committed to pop culture.

I always got a kick out of the chemistry Courtney had with Nardwuar. They seemed to get each other's sense of humor, and her interviews with him were always a hoot. A far cry from the aloof/borderline-bullying treatment he got from Kim Gordon/Sonic Youth and co. (who were friends with, surprise, surprise—Kathleen Hanna!)

Well, Snoop gets along with him better than anyone. Not sure that proves anything other than she is an attention whore.

It's weird seeing so many people kiss Love's ass on here. I find her pretty abysmal as a person and she's well known for beating up people she doesn't like - ask members of Bikini Kill about that one. Did she love Cobain? Probably, but one of her exes made it plain she would pretty much do anything to become a rock star.

I remember enjoying Kurt and Courtney, it was an illuminating documentary, because it really reveals her as pretty much a coked up, narcissistic fame whore. Does she have talent? Yes, she does. I think the equally talented Cobain did love her, but I also think that drugs played a big role in their relationship. I don't think she killed him, but I do think she married him because of who he was. She's a star fucker and a name dropper, that's pretty obvious. She seemed to always be relentlessly on.

The poster above who said it's all been romanticized beyond belief - yes. And Love herself likes to spin - I think one of her chief talents was self-promotion. Crashing a Madonna interview? Just reeked of desperation.

She was persistent. Pretty. Talented. And probably good in bed. Probably had good drugs too. The rest is history.

[quote] She was persistent. Pretty. Talented. And probably good in bed

Persistent? Certainly, pathologically so. Pretty? You're got to be kidding. Talented? Only when it came to latching on to really talented people and getting whatever she could from them. And probably good in bed? What makes you think that? She was definitely a druggie slut but doesn't make somebody good in bed.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

R201 here--didn't realize the post would get redacted on the basis of the image url. To paraphrase, my point was that Courtney was at one time a fairly attractive woman in the early/mid-'90s. She was definitely ugly as a teen, and she went past the point of no return with the plastic surgery in the 2000s, but between those two time periods, I think she looked good. She was also charismatic, which can go far in the bedroom.

[quote] She was also charismatic, which can go far in the bedroom.

What was "charismatic" about her? In all of her interviews she's loud and/or obnoxious and obviously lying. And how exactly does one be "charismatic" in the bedroom?

R203 I meant that she had charisma that resulted in her being able to bed guys—she got some good dick in the '90s. She's also intelligent—and yes, obnoxious—but some straight guys are into forthright, aggressive women like that.

Why did she never play Evita. Her brashness alone would have carried the role.

Kurt married her because he was a colossal fuck up. If he hadn't married her he probably would have lived longer. He supposedly killed himself because he couldn't bear the idea of "going through another divorce (the marriage was a hell on earth) " , having been the child of divorced parents. At least that's what some sources say.

Because he was a Pisces and she is a Cancer.

R180 I love the Julie Ruin album. I loved Le Tigre as a teenager too.

But I agree with you 100%. She’s still an angry teenager.

I don’t think Courtney’s attitude comes about Hanna comes from jealousy because Courtney was more successful than her.

“Deceptacon” became well known long after it’s release. Other than that, that’s all Kathleen has.

R207 And the sky was made of amethyst and all the stars were just like little fish

I used to think that was a reference to Kurt but Billy Corgan is Pisces too.

“Violet” is about Billy Corgan.

Cancer women are brainy and crazy and good in the sack

R210 this is also true of Cancer men. Cancers in general are eager, intuitive lovers—there are also a bit mad, which can result in great sex. Cancer is the power bottom of the zodiac. Their mercurial nature can be hard for some people to put up with longterm though.

OF course you dumb twats realize astrology is a load of bullshit, don't you?

Courtney wrote all of Kurt’s songs

Courtney is a much better writer than Kurt, but I might think that because I’m gay.

Umm no, Kurt wrote Hole's first album and Billy Corgan the second. It is patently obvious.

Ummm yes, Courtney wrote all of the Smashing Pumpkins, Beatles, Michael Jackson and Debbie Gibsons first albums

R215 I'll give you Corgan for Celebrity Skin, but I think it's more to do with production than him actually writings the lyrics. Courtney's lyrics are nothing like Kurt's.