Whose life was more tragic, James Dean or River Phoenix?

River had a tragic life but he got to star in more movies, attend the Oscars, and enjoy fame longer. James didn’t get to experience any of that.

James Dean. Lost his mother to cancer, abandoned by his father, molested by his minister, has no choice but to sell sexy for television/theater roles, likely struggled with his sexuality, and then when he makes his big break (East of Eden) he dies the same year in a gruesome fashion.

sell sex*

OP? I think you mean “whose death was more tragic?” Which is a stupid question anyway.

It’s not a contest.

R4 I’m comparing their lives, not deaths.

I think River’s death was more tragic.

River's death was overblown. I couldn't name two movies he was in. He was an average actor. His brother, Joaquin, has eclipsed him. James Dean was a great star.

R7 I didn’t really get the River hype until I watched Running on Empty. He was special.

They both had hot asses, but they couldn't live forever.

Life= River. He was born into the same cult that helped destroy Rose McGowan, one that advocated for pedophilia being normalized. James Dean was a nice farm kid.

James Dean was only really good in Rebel, and only in the gay parts:

River was my favorite actor as a kid. So his death really shook me. Later, I discovered Dean and had a brief, minor obsession with him. So, I'm a big fan of both.

I think Dean's death was more tragic. As someone else said, he never got to enjoy fame. River had nearly a decade of fame.

Wow twinky River was super attractive

River Phoenix's acting in several films is just as impactful as James Dean's. See My Own Private Idaho and the often overlooked Dogfight.

R14 There’s also Stand By Me.

River Phoenix was often compared to the late James Dean. The comparisons reportedly began during Stand by Me (1986) and continued throughout his life. Gus Van Sant says, "many times during production I heard someone say to River, 'hey, that was great. You're like the next James Dean', and every time River very politely thanked them, before stating that he'd never seen a James Dean movie. He didn't grow up with movies and television like most people. He grew up on the road with his family. I believe he died without ever having seen a James Dean movie. The haircut he wore in our film probably didn't do anything to quiet the comparisons."

Weird comparison because River was a child star that was used and abused. He really should be compared to Corey Haim, Brad Renfro, Shirley Temple, Judy Garland or Jonathan Brandis.

River Phoenix wins this because he grew up in a cult, exploited by his own family and friends, his addiction was enabled, he was the breadwinner of his large family and he had little freedom to find himself and live his own life. He was surrounded by snakes. Also, River's career likely would have ended if he could not get his addiction together.

James Dean's life was really not any more tragic than Marlon Brando or Marilyn Monroe. Working class life was not easy in the early 20th century. Yes, there was molestation, physical abuse, drug addiction, incest, struggle with sexuality, poverty mental illness, etc and etc but again, plenty of people dealt with that and it was just kept behind closed doors. James Dean also created his own problems by being arrogant and unlike River, James Dean lived a fulfilling life and was headed for great things. Dean wanted to become a star and while he died young, he is aspiration and a badass and did whatever he wanted. River was just a victim.

What OP is more stupid?

This OP or This OP?

[quote] James Dean. Lost his mother to cancer, abandoned by his father, molested by his minister, has no choice but to sell sexy for television/theater roles, likely struggled with his sexuality, and then when he makes his big break (East of Eden) he dies the same year in a gruesome fashion.

He had a choice to sell sexy and chose to do it but he was never bland eye candy as he tried to inject humor and personality though over-the-top. Nothing compared to the limited roles for women at the time. His mother's death and father abandonment fucked him up but he had parent figures in his aunt and uncle who raised him. The molestation is disputable though Liz claims it is true. I don't think Dean struggled with his sexuality if he was so willing to sleep with men for money, food, shelter and to get film roles. I don't think a man who is in denial would be so eager to do all of this, he would have just stayed in his hometown. Plus, he was still involved in the gay underground scene and liked hanging out with bohemians and beatniks who rejected a lot of traditions. So I think he accepted his bisexuality but was willing to do the PR game and present as straight which wasn't hard because he was masculine.

James' death was more gruesome. Plus he lost his beloved mother early on and likely had no one else to love him very much for the rest of his life.

Dean had an aunt, an uncle and a cousin he was close with. A lot of people lose their mothers, it's not that unique. Plus he had many friends too in Fairmount, NYC and LA. He did seem to have trust and abandonment issues but he seemed loved by many people who knew him which is a testament to his natural charisma.

While River's parents exploited him his whole life. I actual think River would have been happier if his parents were dead because nobody could have been worse for his mental health than them.

R21 Aunts and uncles are great but mothers and fathers are far more important. Dean lost his mother at 8 and had a rocky relationship with his father. That’s bound to mess anyone up, especially during a time when mental health wasn’t talked about or prioritized.

R11 Dean’s greatest work was pulling a gun on Ronald Reagan.

Definitely Dean

R22 Yeah but a father abandoning you and a mother dying young is not uncommon especially back then when life was much shorter. People were more resilient especially in rural areas. Dean still was a good student and driven to succeed, he went out and got what he wanted from life. His aunt and uncle did a fine job raising him and while they couldn't replace his parents, they served as his role models and gave him structure. I find Dean's story empowering and inspiring. The only tragic thing about Dean's life was his death.

Everything about River's life was pitiful, molested in a cult, he was controlled by his greedy family, lacked an education and he was a victim his whole life.

I see River as passive and set up for failure. While Dean was proactive and refused to be a failure

James Dean had much more fun in life than River Phoenix.

Dean may have had a rough childhood, but I'd say the combo of cult childhood and then early fame made River's life harder. He got to enjoy a decade of fame, but most of it was when he was just a kid. He never got a say in whether he wanted to be famous or not, and it was pretty clear by the end that he hated it even while he needed the money for his family and knew no other life. At least Dean got to choose to pursue acting: River got pushed into it by his grifting hippie parents.

OP- The more tragic thing is that you started this thread.

Dean scored tons of hot dick like Marlon Brando, Paul Newman and Sal Mineo and he was tied to some attractive women as well. Not very tragic. He lived for the moment and he was the master of his destiny. I don't get the obsession of victimizing him, he was individualistic, stubborn, driven and didn't put up with anyone's shit. In fact, his tumultuous family dynamics made him become tough and independent. He defied his father and went for acting, he would hitchhike and hustle and constantly troll the directors and castmates.

To me it seems JD lived one hell of a life in his few years, much more than River did. That is why I feel his death was more tragic. I also very strongly feel that River was betrayed by a friend/friends. Yes, murdered. Wtf gives their friend a lethal dose of dope? And those present at the Viper Room damn sure knew all about drugs, far too much to make such a fatal mistake.

Dean had a lot of pain in his life. That’s why he acted out so much.

Yes he seemed to be very insecure as well. Maybe that was his young age or the competitive field he worked in, idk. I would have loved to see what both would have done had the had the opportunity to age.

River's death was definitely shady. Who drinks a speedball?

R33- Exactly. Who handed the drug laced drink to him?

R31 He acted out like any other teenager or early 20 something male. I don't see how he did anything out of the ordinary. Young men who leave home tend to go through a cocky phase and think they are invincible. You see it with college freshmen all the time.

Also there's the little fact that the Children of God encouraged wife swapping...and well, River looks NOTHING like his siblings. Not by a long shot.

I wonder why this is never brought up. He is clearly a 1/2 sibling of the rest. His mom probablygot knocked up via le swap so River would never have know who his real father is. Sorta head-fucky for him (he had to know).

R36 If you photos of River's father he has his eyes, including the lazy left eye. When he was in his teens he looked like the mother, but once he was in his 20s you can see the resemblance to his father.

River really looks nothing like his father or siblings who look like the father even with dyed dark hair. But that doesn't mean he's not their full blooded sibling. Some siblings take after one parent heavily. River looked like his mother which is why he was the best-looking one. Two dark-haired parents can have a blonde child if they carry the genes.

people sound so stupid when they bring up river not being related to his father because of wife-swapping in the cult. his parents did not join the cult until he was 2 years old. he was born in the pacific northwest. he has his dad's eyes and eyebrows. just do 5 seconds of research before making dumbass assertions.

Does it really matter if they are his bio parents are not? They still exploited this kid for all he was worth and still exploit him after his death.

yeah i agree they are/were both putrid subhuman trash who allowed their kid to be sexually abused for his entire childhood and abused him in their own sick ways. fuck the phoenix family for what they did to river.

does it MATTER if they were his bio parents? i mean facts matter in general, so.

R41 I think they are either his biological parents with River taking after his mom. Siblings inherit different genes. But if River has a different father, I wouldn't be surprised.

they have the same eyes and eyebrow shape. john phoenix also had a lazy eye, which river inherited. that said, river obviously took after his mother's looks. his sister liberty has a similar sloped nose and his sister summer also resembles the mother. rain and joaquin look 100% like the dad. they all look quite obviously related to me.

regardless, i'd have to say river had the more tragic life. he was famous for longer, sure, but he hated every minute of the fame. as others stated, he was a really vulnerable fragile kid with all of the worst influences around him pushing him to support his family and tons of leeches. his family is still seedy. hate the lot of them.

Damn those bastards if they murdered River! But what do you think is the motive? Ritual sacrifice stuff? We need some beautiful stars to die young and the "live forever" because that is our kink?I don't see any other benefit in murdering him.

R44 his family didn't murder him. john frusciante did. no one except john will ever know if he did it on purpose but they were known to be friends and river's father gave an interview after river died saying river had tried to get frusciante into rehab on several occassions. people who love conspiracy theories have a field day with motives, figuring out if the COG cult or johnny depp used river as some sort of sacrifice, etc etc etc. to me it seems like it was just a bunch of stupid kids mixed in with junkies that led to a series of rather unfortunate events as opposed to some ritualistic sacrifice but who knows.

River's family drove him to his early grave. If it wasn't that speedball. He would have overdosed anyway or killed himself. He never was allowed to be just a kid with no responsibilities. His whole life was centered on being an ATM for his greedy parents. The older River got the more aware he became and he clearly was becoming bitter, angry and disgruntled.

R46 i do agree with you. his fucked up parents are to blame ultimately for his drug use and coping mechanisms. alcoholism ran in his family and he told martha plimpton he was an alcoholic while they were still minors. no one would dare get him into therapy of course. too much to lose.

Martha after his death called out his family indirectly. Noting how disgusted she was by River being made into a martyr when he was just a naive damaged kid who was a junkie and needed help.

yeah saw that. wish she'd said more. she hadn't been his gf for a while when he died but they were still friends. the power the Phoenix family has is far reaching and mighty. god only knows why, but hollywood folks seem terrified to piss them off

This thread has some dirt on the Phoenixes.

r16 average looking guys should not be compared to someone as beautiful as Dean. James was iconic because he was was a sexy first in an all American sort of way. River's nose put him out of contention as a James Dean type.

Every male actor is compared to Brando, Dean or Newman who had a hot trade look. I don't think River looks like Dean in any way shape or form though. I can see similarities in mannerisms though like that nervous energy, the mumbling and being rather unsophisticated.

R51 average? please. river phoenix was not average in any way except for his weak singing voice.

River could have been a good model. He was photogenic. Only flaw was his pimply skin.

R54 he was a real beauty. also surprisingly muscular for what you'd assume his body would look like.

Phoenix was abused and dragged down by his family, but Dean also came from an awful background, but he got away and was able to live on his own terms as an adult.

So Phoenix's life story was tragic all the way, but Dean's would have been a story of triumph... if he'd been a better driver.

Dean and Phoenix are examples of gay male icons. As they embody fleeting youthful beauty and masculinity ended by untimely deaths that recalls something out of a Greek myth of Adonis or Narcissus. Their bisexuality just adds more. So many gay writers and artists were inspired by them and made tributes to them. Previous decades there was Valentino, Nijinsky and St Sebastian.

River has an older half sister who looks more like his father and his siblings thn him.

If River was average-looking nobody would be making a million threads on here about him. He'd be forgotten. Same reason Corey Haim and Jonathan Brandis still get threads.

h ttps://www.anothermanmag.com/life-culture/10575/river-phoenix-s-insatiable-appetite-for-sex-deadline-interview

DL won't let me post a link but remove the space after the h to read. his body in that lead pic. yum. adonis, indeed.

You have to put the link in the box that says link above the post button.

R61 smehow i've been here for years and never noticed that. thank you. here's the link

Dean had a Midwestern farm boy life. This was 1930s and 40s rural America. Great Depression. It wasn't easy for anyone. His dysfunctional family wasn't far from uncommon. A lot of incest and molestation occurred behind closed doors and nobody talked about it. A lot of Hollywood stars then came from a rough background like Marilyn Monroe, Marlon Brando, Farley Granger, Judy Garland, Monty Clift, Dorothy Dandridge, etc. That's probably why they had so much character. The studios kept all the drama private.

my inner gay 13 year old still screams over that delicate face. RIP river.

R63 since when was james dean involved in incest?

God. I had no idea he was molested by his minister.

R65 Didn't say he did. I said it wasn't uncommon back then for such a thing to happen and be kept private. Marilyn and Dorothy were apparently sexually abused by family.

Pre-WW2 America was much more rough. There wasn't a concept of a teenager then, Dean grew up much faster because of that. You were expected to be more resilient, control your emotions and not complain. You worked as soon as you could walk. We take a lot of what we have now for granted. He had a screwed up family but poverty and mental illness in rural areas made it not uncommon.

Dean's character in Rebel Without A Cause was the role that defined being a teenager. Prior to that you just had stereotypical portrayals of moody adolescent girls obsessed with movie stars or good-natured adolescent boys who looked up to dad.

R68 not arguing about Dean but River was basically an adult as soon as he was old enough to speak. his parents had him busking on the streets of Venezuela using a guitar he taught himself to play at 4 years old to earn money for the family to eat. they let him be raped by women and children alike starting at 4 and only ending when he was forced into acting to support his family. he used to refer to his siblings as "my kids" bc he took on the parental role in every way, and martha plimpton said he basically parented his own father, who was a useless alcoholic. he was always extremely serious because he had so much pressure on his shoulders. i'm really not surprised he turned to drugs to cope. he only started letting loose towards the end of his life. talk about growing up too fast.

"Dean's character in Rebel Without A Cause was the role that defined being a teenager. Prior to that you just had stereotypical portrayals of moody adolescent girls obsessed with movie stars or good-natured adolescent boys who looked up to dad."

No, the concept of teenagers definitely existed in the 1930s and 1940s, witness all the films about Andy Hardy, the Bowery Boys, Mickey and Judy, and "The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer".

It was just that nobody glamorized unhappy or rebellious teens until "Rebel Without a Cause". Before that, teens were either depicted as happy and creative "good kids", who respected their parents and studied and worked and went to church, or "bad kids" who didn't. "RWAC" was the first sympathetic look at the "bad kids", and made being a bad, rebellious, or angsty kid fashionable. Which it still is, although now the fashion is to be "mentally ill" or trans rather than a rebel.

I think Sal Mineo was more convincing in his role as Plato, Angelo in Crime in the Streets and Dino in Dino because he actually was a teenager. Though Dean was more iconic and his image was copied internationally..

R51 Ever seen The Thing Called Love? River is nowhere near average.

River looks more like Johnny Depp to me than Dean.

R42 He looked near death during that film but still was undoubtedly gorgeous.

R73 Though Depp was older I think he was very envious of River and tried to copy his style. They definitely have similarities. Height, build, cheekbones, hair. River always had much more intense eyes that were slightly eurasian while Depp's were larger, rounder and friendlier.

Depp was in a hit TV show, dating then A-list Winona Ryder and was making waves with roles like Cry-Baby, Edward Scissorhands, Benny & Joon, What's Eating Gilbert Grape and was filming Ed Wood one of his most acclaimed performances. River was not anywhere close to Depp in fame. So I doubt Depp was jealous.

R66 Liz talked about it in this interview,

Johnny Depp credited James Dean as the catalyst that made him want to become an actor. Hate to say it but his legacy would’ve benefited tremendously if he died young like Dean.

This Oscar montage showed River, James, and Anton Yelchin back to back with the quote from Tim Robbin’s character in The Shawshank Redemption about how no good thing ever dies. Really moving.

R78 River was featured three times in that. Unbelievable how many classics he managed to put out by 23. Beautiful montage.

R75 Maybe so, but River's star was rising furiously and he was picking strange/off-beat roles that Depp was also interested in and was . He was even set to star opposite Winona (Broken Dreams) and was nearly a decade younger than Depp. He'd already been nominated for an Oscar. I think you underestimate how threatened all of the handsome young actors were by each other back then, as there's only room for so many of that "type."

Johnny Depp would be far more threatened by the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio, Ethan Hawke, Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Will Smith and Christian Bale. River was not driven or ambitious and at that point was only acting out of contractual obligations, his drug addiction was spiraling out of control which would have made him a liability like it did to Lindsay Lohan and Brad Renfro.

I love how the fraus keep wanting to make someone like James Dean into a fragile victim. Yeah, he got touched but a lot of people did, it's just nobody talked about it then. Dean suffered losses but he persevered and did not let his past define him, he refused to let anything tear him down. He was resilient, adventurous, forward-thinking and did whatever he wanted which is why he's an icon for the American Dream and masculinity. He also sucked many dicks which is backed by many who knew him. Liz is an alcoholic and was old then, she also knew Dean very briefly. Sessums is a shit interviewer.

R80 i disagree. river was still very much employable at the time of his death. there were rumors of his drug use but he was signed on for several big movies (interview with the vampire being one) and was top of mind for movies that hadn't yet been made (Cameron has famously said River was his first choice to play Jack.) Ethan Hawke was nowhere near River's fame level by that point, nor was DiCaprio. I don't know what would've ended up doing River in if he hadn't OD'd that night. He hated fame and Hollywood but felt immense pressure to care for his family and hangers-on and even thought he promised his father he'd move to his farm in Costa Rica after he'd finished his obligations, I don't know if he would've been able to honor that. I just wish he'd gotten a chance to get clean. So many less deserving people got that chance. Oh well, at least he never had to get old and gross a la Depp.

R81 It’s weird how this board accepts River Phoenix was a victim of child molestation but not James Dean,

River did not want the roles that DiCaprio took. DiCaprio wanted to be a star and chose roles that would make him hot stuff in Hollywood. Plus River would have been too old for Basketball Diaries and Titanic. Interview with the Vampire while a big role was still Pitt and Cruise's movie and it did nothing for Christian Slater's career. River's drug addiction got him in hot water during the filming of Dark Blood. Drug addiction gets worse over time and River could have worked for a few more years but it would have made him unstable inevitably. River was hanging out with older, experienced junkies who were doing hard stuff.

River's family was not the type to stage an intervention because they depended on River maintaining a clean image and word getting out about addiction and rehabilitation would ruin that image they cultivated. So they rather let him die slowly than get help. Even Keanu Reeves admitted to addiction and that seeing his friends die (River Phoenix, Rodney Harvey, etc) is what got him sober.

Ethan Hawke while not as big as River was. Built up an impressive filmography just like Crispin Glover, Nick Stahl and John Cusack did.

R83 There's a big difference between being in a massive cult that promotes child molestation and prostitution and having an inappropriate relationship with your minister in a podunk town. The Children of God is documented to be pedophiliac and River himself admitted to having sex at a very early age (4). James Dean being molested is disputable because we never heard from Dean himself but from other people and there's debate if he had a consensual relationship with the minister and was in his teen years rather than early childhood. These two get compared when they share little in common

R85 Elizabeth Taylor alluded to James Dean being molested by his minister several times before that interview with Kevin Sessums. She told Larry King he had a very unhappy childhood. It would be weird AF for her to lie about such a thing multiple times. People’s lack of empathy for James Dean is quite frankly strange, especially since you guys have no problem expressing sympathy to Marilyn Monroe.

And we never heard it from James Dean because he died at 24 in 1955.

"Was River Phoenix supposed to be in The Basketball Diaries? Phoenix was a big fan of the book, and as the film version entered various stages of readiness, he was always the front runner. However, prior to his death, he had declined the role, due to a combination of feeling he was too old to play a fifteen year old, and trying to broaden his range with more adult roles."

"Was River Phoenix meant to be titanic? James Cameron had originally considered River Phoenix for the role, but the young actor tragically passed away before he could be asked to play the leading man part."

I like River Phoenix but his fans are annoying in the sense that they act like every actor would’ve been out of a job if he hadn’t died.

Why does no one accuse Paul Newman of conspiring to kill James Dean? He benefitted tremendously from Dean’s death and said so multiple times.

R87 Yes and Dean was a loner who had a small group of friends. His friends were theatre and small-time actors and they hung out in cafes. Dean was a hipster who was anti-establishment. Dean was a social reject in Hollywood, nobody could understand him, they looked down on him and expressed hostility towards him. Dean would rather got stoned and play his bongos or race cars than be around other big-name actors who would treat him like shit. It's hilarious that as soon as Dean died and became this big urban legend and the face of youthful rebellion. All these actors came out and pretended to be best friends with Dean and spilling all the details about his life. So fake. I'm sorry but Liz is part of that group, she only knew Dean briefly.

[quote] People’s lack of empathy for James Dean is quite frankly strange, especially since you guys have no problem expressing sympathy to Marilyn Monroe.

Lack of empathy? He lived the life and had the swag and looks most gay (and straight) men dreamed about. I just don't think he's this tortured soul. He had a troubled and poor background but kept his composure, got what he wanted from his life and was driven to succeed. He's nothing like Marilyn who was so damaged and kept going to shitty men and used to drugs to self-medicate. And nothing like River either. James Dean was an independent person who succeeded in his short life despite his issues. He's someone to admire not belittle or pity.

R92 Elizabeth Taylor called James Dean tortured in her interview with Larry King.

R93 She only knew him briefly and Liz has a martyr complex. Look at how she saw Michael Jackson. She wanted to save the gays or eccentrics. Which while well-intentioned is infantilizing grown adult men. James Dean had actual long-term friends like Martin Landeau, William Bast, Maila Nurmi, Jack Simmons, Eartha Kitt, etc who have their own anecdotes about. Other gay and bi men like Sal Mineo and Nick Ray knew Dean better.

R94 Sal Mineo didn’t know Dean well, he was just a teenager.

R294 He knew Dean longer than Liz because they worked on two movies together. I didn't know being a teenager made you unable to know anyone. And I genuinely fail to see how Liz is a greater authority on Dean's life than all the other people who knew him far longer even back in his NYC or UCLA days. But I figure those people wouldn't air Dean's dirty laundry out of respect for their friend.

I take Martin Landau’s and Eartha Kitt’s word over everyone else when it comes to celebrity friends of Dean’s.

R96 Then why didn’t you mention Natalie Wood? She also worked with Dean prior to Rebel Without a Cause.

Newman got some roles Dean would have, but he was also already a terrific actor at the time Dean died and, ultimately, built his career on his own talent, excelling in film and theater, drama and light comedy. Even if Dean had lived, I think Newman would have been a big star.

R99 I agree Newman was always going to be a star, but he still benefitted from Dean’s death. Yet no one says he wouldn’t have a career if Dean didn’t die. Meanwhile, River Phoenix fans claim no other actor would get work if he hadn’t died.

Dean would have went the artsy route going towards directing in the 60s and 70s and also likely coming out of the closet. Maybe move back to NYC or even move to France or Italy, He really wasn't into Hollywood glamour. Unlike Brando who only pretended to be anti-Hollywood (really he was a pain-in-the-ass diva and got fat which is why his roles dried up and started those stunts), Dean seemed the type to walk away from it all. His whole film career seemed driven by a need to prove himself to his father. Dean was definitely more stable than Brando, Clift and Monroe.

Newman, Beatty, McQueen and Eastwood would have taken all of the roles meant for Dean.

The Silver Chalice nearly ruined Newman’s career. Somebody Up There Likes Me, which was going to be Dean’s next role, revived his career. Watching it one can’t help but imagine Dean in the role and how better suited he would’ve been in it, especially with Sal Mineo and Pier Angeli as costars.

River was good but most of the worship comes from his beautiful blond appearance and extremely bizarre upbringing and mysterious death that looked like a murder. I found the late Brad Renfro to be a way better actor and more fascinating and charismatic. His background is way more akin to Dean's as well. Poor from a rural landscape with parents that abandoned him and brought a lot of that pain into acting. I can't picture River playing the role of Marty in Bully or Todd in Apt Pupil. Bruce LaBruce and John Waters really wanted to work with Renfro too. If he kept sober, Renfro had a far more promising career I feel.

In My Own Private Idaho, River was a vessel for Van Sant's typical dreamy, disconnected lost boy archetype (see also: Drugstore Cowboy, Elephant, Paranoid Park, Last Days and Mala Noche) though River took control and added his own personal touch like rewriting Mike's apathetic self to be gay and in love with Scott. I think River showed his potential in Dogfight and Dark Blood which both gave underrated performances.

It seems like people on here don’t want to believe Dean was molested by his minister because it feeds into the narrative that all bisexual and gay men were molested in their youth.

Dean was good at playing sociopaths.

James Dean was not good at being fake. Look up his photos with Terry Moore, he couldn’t hide his contempt for her. Meanwhile he always looked happy and at ease with Liz. It’s possible they developed a close friendship in the few months they knew each other.

In the months before Dean's death, Newman was starring with Karl Malden in the Broadway hit, "The Desperate Hours", which won the Tony for best play that year.

Hot sociopath!

Newman and Dean most likely fucked back when they were doing theatre in NYC. Maybe they both fucked Brando too?

Idk why people ship Dean and Brando so hard when by all accounts Brando was an asshole towards Dean. Dean and Newman are the superior pairing.

I could always tell River was acting in that overrehearsed child star way though he vastly improved by the time of Dogfight and Dark Blood. Joaquin was a better and more natural actor and while not cute at all as a kid, he grew into his looks by the time of To Die For. River was not on DiCaprio's level honestly, he was more akin to Depp or Slater, good for hammy character roles.

Brad Renfro was way more natural as an actor at a younger age than River and Hollywood should feel ashamed at how they ignored his death in favor of Heath Ledgers (they could have did tribute to both fine actors). Like Brittany Murphy, I guess Brad wasn't "pretty enough" to be made into a martyr given he died a bloated greasy mess. Young Brad looks like John Cusack.

I totally disagree that River wasn't a natural actor. I think that was his appeal. He was wonderfully believable in the Mosquito Coast (a movie that was freakishly close to his own life), Running on Empty (what about this seemed overrehearsed? seemed very natural to me..) And Dogfight might even be my favorite role of his since he played so against type but still managed to make the role his own (Lily Taylor was amazing as well.) My Own Private Idaho was so natural that unless I was watching Keanu's shit acting, I forgot I was even watching a movie. River was transcendent as Mike . It's too bad that he had zero formal acting education (or any formal education in general) because his method acting really made that role dangerous. He never did kick that heroin habit he picked up on set.

River's mother when she was young looked just like River

I swear I read somewhere that before River’s father died he impregnated some woman from south American and his family tried to kidnapped the baby or something like that. I think John goes by a different name now because i tried to search it up but I remember reading about it

R113 John's been dead since 2015

No, River Phoenix wouldn't have had Depp's career if he'd lived, because he was one of those small boyish men who turn into a gnome when they hit thirty.

He'd have had Daniel Radcliff's career.

"James Dean was not good at being fake. Look up his photos with Terry Moore, he couldn’t hide his contempt for her"

Here's a photo of the two of them, Dean looks more contemptuous of the photographers and whoever Moore is smiling at, than Moore herself. I can imagine he loathed publicity-whoring.

But yes, I agree that Dean was not good at fake, as I saw him try to play an older version of his character in "Giant". He was great as the vulnerable young man, he was great as a vulnerable young man in other films, but he was absolute crap when he stepped out of his wheelhouse. Maybe he'd have developed some range as an actor in time, but he sure as hell didn't have any when he made "Giant".

OMG this picture of Dean and Moore is hilarious!

R115 I like River and think he's a good actor with potential to be great but I do think his cult overhypes him a bit too much. His death truly saved his legacy because he easily could have been like say Whitney Houston or Corey Haim, a junkie with his glory days behind him. While his performances were natural and good, he really did not stick out as much as people say. While. James Dean's acting is debatable, he left a huge mark on pop culture and was one of the actors that popularized method style (along with John Garfield, Clift, Brando and Newman).

R115, i know he’s dead since 2015 but I remember reading about this tibit, his family tried to kidnapped his daughter after he died or something like that.

R116 I actually loved him in Giant, but I realize it’s a divisive performance.

[quote] "Was River Phoenix supposed to be in The Basketball Diaries? Phoenix was a big fan of the book, and as the film version entered various stages of readiness, he was always the front runner. However, prior to his death, he had declined the role, due to a combination of feeling he was too old to play a fifteen year old, and trying to broaden his range with more adult roles."

Could River pull off a white working-class Harlem accent? Leo certainly couldn't with his thick Southern California drawl. He talked wayyyy toooo slowwwww. Matt Dillon should have been cast if they went through with the adaptation in the early to mid 80s as planned

R115 False. River was the exact same height as Depp. 5'10

Depp and Phoenix are the same height. Depp was much thicker though with a booty, has those Southern farm boy genes and his metabolism finally gave way for him to become fat. River was much more lithe though could have been due to the vegan diet.