Invasion of Ukraine has just begun. PART II

Will provide live link as soon as it is available.

Puttie is trying to “spin” his invasion of Ukraine and trying to field questions from Chinese reporters.

I’ll try to provide blow by blow as much as I can.

Has Kyiv fallen yet?

BBC has cut off Lavrov. After all, it is Western media. Some talking govt official talking about the bloodshed of innocent Ukrainians. Stating he is disappointed by Western forces and not doing more to save them.

Kyiv has not yet fallen.

Prime Minister of Latvia.

Ukrainians feel all alone. (Well, duh….you are!).

Unfortunately, we cannot view the rest of Lavrov’s live staged interview. Guess it has to be filtered before shown to Western audiences.

(I mean, there are people who can distinguish bullshit when they hear it. It’s very patronizing on BBC’s part).

Consider 1 out of 5 people in Ukraine are Russian, I predict Ukraine will be divided into 2 or 3 different parts, one will be a satellite state of Russia, the other one or two will be "neutral" or puppet states with no real military capability.

Ohh…a hot red headed Russian dude says “his partner” is in Ukraine and he wishes he could be rejoined with him. HOTNESS!

More likely, upon Puttie’s demise, the international community will demand Russia’s complete nuclear disarmament in order to rejoin the rest of the civilized World Wide community of nations.

WWIII, right OP?

Well Puttie is actively fucking up Russia’s position in the worldwide community. And Western forces should not allow them into the goodwill of civil nations and regard them like nothing other than a rogue state. Western Europe needs to demand Russia’s COMPLETE NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT first! A necessary precondition.

Onto Morning Joe who is discussing Lavrov’s live interview…time to move on now.

[Incidentally, and apropos to nothing, shouldn’t we all welcome Rachel Maddox’s return to MSNBCs news?]

Ukraine MP: 'Putin is Hitler for the 21st Century'

Ukrainian MP for Podilsk Oleksii Goncharenko has compared Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler - and called for the West to impose harsh sanctions on Russia.

Yet, Puttie was once the darling of US media. Imagine that!

And the craven EU doesn't even have the stones to cut them off from the SWIFT system. Unbelievable.

CNN had former president of Ukraine. I am watching both CNN and BBC World.

Next up on Morning Joe: Live interview with Hilllary Clinton.

Hiltz was right all along. But no, Merka wanted Dump.

I hardly think so.

Well you don't think much do you?

Putin's going to get away with all this isn't he? I knew the war was one sided, but this should have made Russia an isolated pariah which would have actually helped Ukraine's negotiating position at the end. But Kiev is going to fall soon, at that point he can pretty much dictate whatever peace he wants, the sanctions aren't strict enough to bother him or his oligarch backers, as a result of self interest in the EU states, and going by history once the initial anger over the invasion has passed they won't get any harsher on Russia and relations will go back to frosty normal. Well even further emboldened Russia and China here we come. What a fuck up.

Joe Scarborough is taking it to Vindman. GOOD! Vindman wanted NATO pre-invasion troops in Ukraine as a warning! WTF? That’s right…ask this Vindman guy what would have happened if we intervened and put NATO troops in a non-NATO nation? No wonder this guy put his ass in a sling with Dump.

So WTF is the point of Russia de-militarization Ukraine? Is this for days…a week…months…years? When and how long on this good earth is this de-militarization supposed to last? The self-drama and delusion of Puttie is immeasurably on point!

To all a good night. Praying that the horror that tomorrow brings is not as severe.

Continue on with Boris threads which intent is to bury these revealing, information laden insights into Russia/china’s dark souls.

Console yourselves Horror movies and those you can never get tired of.

[Quote]The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) is one of the six principal organs of the United Nations charged with ensuring international peace and security, recommending the admission of new UN members to the General Assembly, and approving any changes to the UN Charter. Its powers include establishing peacekeeping operations, enacting international sanctions, and authorizing military action. The UNSC is the only UN body with the authority to issue binding resolutions on member states.

Why is Russia still a permanent member of the UN Security Council?

R19. I thought you were referring to Angela Merkle.

R25 The Palestinians have the same question on America's role in the security council, since US government vetoed any resolutions issued against Israel.

We're great at blowing the shit up and bombing citizens of countries who can't fight back.

Ukraine? We'll sit on the sidelines and fight to the last Ukrainian.

[quote]The sanction nobody is talking about. Russian users who attempted to visit pornhub were quite literally cockblocked by a message that told them that the content has been stopped along with a Ukranian flag and message of Ukranian support

Cut off their porn, now that is hitting below the belt.

Zelensky has posted another video showcasing that he's still in Kyiv. He looks rough now though.

R31 I"m sure the poor guy is exhausted.

R25. Well there is that bit when Russia helped the Alliance by overtaking Germany in WWII.

Well a lot has changed since 1945 Gamps.,

AP, one hour ago

...street clashes followed fighting that pummeled bridges, schools and apartment buildings, and resulted in hundreds of casualties. By Saturday morning, when the small Russian units tried to infiltrate Kyiv, Ukrainian forces controlled the situation, Zelenskyy adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said

they all have bdf. do they all have bd?

The thing that has been most illuminating by the comments here and in other threads is how generally uniformed Americans are about global geopolitics, except maybe R28.

Russia is entering a quagmire with its military actions. Ukraine will be the repressed homosexual Putin's undoing.

R38 Putin is clearly straight, why are you using gay as a slur?

Putin is obviously a bossy bottom, R39. Queen of the Russian Bathhouses; and Empress of Gossip.

(most recent first - getting the EU to agree to SWIFT sanctions could be a big deal (blocking the oligarch's from access to their money?)

@DmytroKuleba Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine · We did it. Cyprus confirmed it will not block the decision to ban Russia from SWIFT. Ukrainian diplomacy keeps working 24/7 to achieve important decisions and protect Ukraine from Russian invaders. Call with my Italian counterpart @luigidimaio . Full solidarity with Ukraine. My colleague assured me that Italy will support banning Russia from SWIFT. Another call with my American friend and counterpart @SecBlinken on the need to use all US influence on some hesitant European countries in order to ban Russia from SWIFT. We also discussed further supply of defensive weapons to Ukraine.

SWIFT is used by over 11,000 institutions in over 200 countries worldwide.  It is mainly a messaging system that sends secure bank-to-bank payment orders that allow banks to work together and transfer money across international borders easily and quickly. The organization was set up to create a unified system to make interbank and cross-border payments quick and simple.

Attack these "strong men's" wives. No Hermes scarves, no children going to NATO nation schools, no visa entries into NATO countries.

3:48 am Eastern

“Russian forces pound Ukraine for third day, Interfax says they capture first city” KYIV, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Russian forces pounded Ukrainian cities including the capital Kyiv with artillery and cruise missiles on Saturday for a third day running and Russia's Interfax news agency said they had captured the southeastern city of Melitopol....

But even as the fighting grew more intense, the Russian and Ukrainian governments signalled an openness to negotiations, offering the first glimmer of hope for diplomacy since Putin launched the invasion. A spokesman for Zelenskiy said Ukraine and Russia would consult in coming hours on a time and place for talks. The Kremlin said earlier it offered to meet in the Belarusian capital Minsk after Ukraine expressed a willingness to discuss declaring itself a neutral country, while Ukraine had proposed Warsaw as the venue. That, according to Russian spokesman Dmitry Peskov, resulted in a "pause" in contacts. "Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about a ceasefire and peace," Zelenskiy spokesman Sergii Nykyforov said in a Facebook post. "We agreed to the proposal of the President of the Russian Federation." But U.S. State Department spokesman Ned Price said Russia's offer was an attempt to conduct diplomacy "at the barrel of a gun" and Putin's military must stop bombing Ukraine if it was serious about negotiations.

S&P cuts Russia's rating to junk, Moody's issues junk warning

[quote] The Kremlin said earlier it offered to meet in the Belarusian capital Minsk

Aren't peace talks meant to be hosted by a neutral third party not Russia's mini-me?

Good point R45. A truly neutral location would be Geneva.

R46 Switzerland announced they would be joining the sanctions against Russia so they aren't neutral.

I've heard that shockingly Israel may be the neutral place.. which is fucked up because Putin claims he is denazifying Ukraine from a Jewish president.

[quote]Putin's going to get away with all this isn't he?

History happens over months and years. Russia invaded about three or four days ago. I suggest you chill out a bit.

I’m going to go out on a bit of a limb and predict that Putin will be gone within a week (taking a leave for “health reasons”). I’m getting fall of 1989 vibes from this… when conventional wisdom was turned on its head and there was a sudden, seismic shift in the world order.

This adventure is going way off the rails for the Russian armed forces. They still do not have air superiority, and unbelievably in spite of months of planning and build up their logistics are a disaster. There are multiple reports of convoys of military vehicles being abandoned for lack of fuel. It’s like they assumed they’d simply roll in unopposed, like on a weekend road trip and that once in control they’d have all the fuel they need. They’d didn’t even bother to supply their soldiers with maps so now they’re driving around lost and resorting to WhatsApp messages to ask for directions. What a joke! How could Putin and Russia possibly live down such an embarrassing performance? All this invasion how succeeded in is proving that Russian is a paper tiger.

It was quite telling that Kazakhstan, its regime having just a month ago been rescued from an uprising by Russian forces, is refusing to go along with the Ukraine invasion and not sending troops in support. Clearly they smell the blood in the water and can see how this is going to pan out.

Even worse, now Germany has reversed course and is sending hundreds of RPGs and, more alarmingly for Russia, hundreds of the Mujahadeen’s old friend the Stinger Missile. Ask a Russian vet of the Afghan war what they think of those! AND Germany isn’t keeping quiet about it either, they’re loudly announcing it and mocking Putin to his face! Again, how does Vlad live this down?

Oh and then there’s that $640B in foreign reserves that Putin *thinks* he has access to. If the U.S. wanted to it could REALLY fuck Russia over and finish it as a functioning society, without firing a shot?

You know, Oprahsminge, I think it's gotta be a hard no on your popcorn.

R50 will take some with some special "Oprah Butter".

Interesting that more and more commentators, while still giving it the old' it could all change' let-out clause, are suggesting the Russian invasion is falling apart. They were supposed to have captured Kiev, killed the president and installed a puppet government to 'negotiate' with by now. There will no doubt be a lot of death and destruction still, but clearly the playbook has been rendered useless.

Putin fancies himself as a historian. Well, he forgot one of the axioms of the old Soviet Union: 'All our best soldiers are Ukrainian'.

Great post, Oprah’s Minge.

Oprah's Minge,

Thank you! Your post gives hope,which is what we all need right now.

WTF does Rubio know?

@tagabhishek #BREAKING: US Senator Marco Rubio, who is Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, says Russian military leaders should think 'very carefully' before following orders they 'recently received'

@SecBlinken · 4h

United States government official As a result of Putin’s war on Ukraine, we join with leaders of EU, France, Germany, Italy, UK and Canada to ensure key sanctioned Russian banks are disconnected from SWIFT, impose restrictions on Russian Central Bank, and further identify and freeze assets of sanctioned Russians.

The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · BREAKING: Former Russian Central Bank official says there will be a 'catastrophe' on the country's currency market on Monday amid mounting sanctions.

@PaulSonne · 4h There is so much focus on blocking Russia from SWIFT. The vow today to block the Russian central bank from its reserves is almost certainly far more damaging to Moscow. This is a very big deal.

Per R59, here's the geographical distribution of the Russian central bank's foreign exchange and gold assets. (Russia has $630bn in international reserves, a big chunk of which is held overseas.)

22% in gold

14% China

23% in Germany + France

10% Japan

6.5% USA

R56 I assume he means that the details of any war crimes and the names of the commanders responsible will be sent to the international court in The Hague for potential prosecution when this is all over.

R61 Or they are being told to escalate which would be very very bad for civilians..

R47, Israel probably genuinely is neutral in this. Putin is considered a pro-Israel leader but Israel also supports Zelensky.

Not so sure about that. Israel's conservative governments seem to have toadied to Putin.

R64, there are definitely strong relations between Putin and Israel, with some 80,000 Israeli citizens living in Moscow and some 100,000 Russian citizens living in Israel. But at the same time, Israel does seem appalled at Putin’s desire to call the Jewish Zelensky a Nazi and try to hunt him down. So Zelensky wants to have the meeting there.

A thread on how ordinary civilians in a city can fight an invading force. Main point: block the roads! Find windows in thick walled buildings and be snipers. Oh an Molotov cocktails (I haven't looked up what they are yet).

I mean, one day Kyiv, maybe next day Seattle or something...

I'm reading a book about WW I right now, and the current chapter is describing the initial joy and happy media reports on tiny, neutral Belgium putting up a good fight against the massive German invading army. I think that all changes.

I hope Oprah's minge is right.

I always laugh at the Putin narrative of uKrAiNiAn NaZiS! Like Russia has been a historical paragon of pro-Judaism whenever they’re isn’t filthy lucre involved.

I’m more interested in China’s response. I imagine they would be more likely to give Russia enough rope.

The worst is how so much of the media fell for it, especially fucking tankies like Vice, publishing a bunch of articles about Nazis in Ukraine. Just no perspective about how they're a minority.

R68 - from the NYT five hours ago: Amy QinReporting from Taipei, Taiwan The Chinese ambassador to Ukraine, Fan Xianrong, appeared in a video on Sunday to rebut rumors that he had fled Kyiv and to urge Chinese nationals in the country to shelter at home. China has refrained from advising its citizens to evacuate the country, as some other governments have done, and Mr. Fan acknowledged the difficulties of arranging safe passage. He also called on Chinese nationals to be friendly toward Ukrainians and not to “provoke” them. “China’s policy towards Ukraine has always been friendly,” he said. Beijing has struggled to maintain a balancing act on the crisis and has declined to call the Russian attack an invasion.

@RihoTerras THREAD 1/7 Intel from a Ukrainian officer about a meeting in Putin’s lair in Urals. Oligarchs convened there so no one would flee. Putin is furious, he thought that the whole war would be easy and everything would be done in 1-4 days.

From the other thread about the best twitter on the subject: “Dyakuyu (thank you) to all the all the Russian brass leaking reports of Putin’s insanity like a sieve. Word is he has really lost his mind.”

Fuckers are tuff as hell.

Moar.

I hope future military academies will teach its students what not to do by using Russia’s fucked-up campaign and that Puttie will go down in history as a the stupidest of them all. Is it me or does anyone else sense that Russia’s top Generals did not participate in this military farce? There is no logistical support, no medics in site, no discernible attack basecamp. Nothing. Their soldiers must realize that if they are injured there is no one that can help them with a serious injury. Perhaps that’s why they are stopping short of engaging with an armed population.

I suppose the soldiers are also sleeping in their tanks or vehicles. What a disastrous fuck up on Russia’s part. I feel badly for the Russian people who are innocent and caught up in this farce. They will be the ones that will have themselves and their children pay for this in the long term

Ukrainian to Russians whose tank is out of fuel: Can I tow you back… to Russia?

Russian soldiers: *laughter*

Russian special forces running away from Ukrainian snipers (and at least one guy kneeling at shooting at them?)

@ubco2 · 3h About 17 percent of soldiers in the Ukraine army are women - brave women.

Rubio (who has access to intel): "Putin's plan was to establish air dominance within 24 hours, destroy Ukrainian military communications within 36 hours, encircle Kyiv within 48 hours and install a puppet government within 72 hours."

The Russian army is weak compared to the stone face USSR era. The men who served were born in 2002-2003 and these guys are more into posting about themselves on tiktok.

Then he miscalculated badly.

The video at r75 is funny, but also so aptly demostrates how stupid and sad this whole thing is. It's like a big brother beating up his little brother just because he can. I and really surprised that there have been no stories of Ukraines very substantial Russian population taking up arms in favor of Russia. Not even they want this.

Lots of evidence in this thread about how Putin may have botched this invasion beyond repair (fingers crossed) - the tweeter is a Unv of Chicago professor whose specialty is Russian politics and its autocracy

When you disrupt a country, bad things can happen.

Putin's legacy will be having fallen victim to a new military blunder.

Never fight a land war in Asia.

Never invade Russia in the winter.

Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

If you invade Ukraine, better carry some seeds in your pockets.

The New York Times' propaganda in the lead up to the Russian invasion.

[quote]Mr. Zelensky, the showman and performer, has been unmasked by reality. And it has revealed him to be dispiritingly mediocre.

R79. Yeah and what “intelligence” is that? Did some elementary school teacher with sharpies and crayons draw up those plans for Puttie. You know, with round red crayon circles for tanks and sharpie drawn arrows pointing to Kiev? Reminds me of Dump drawing that hurricane forecast that looked like a huge penis.

[quote]Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

Uh, not quite. One empire survived and thrived. The Muslims. How? They were smart. They forced Islam on the locals, thereby ceasing to be a conquerer/occupier.

BBC World News is reporting possible talks between Putin and Ukrainian government officials. It seems a bit more possible now. BBC is usual correct reporting. Pray this materializes very soon…

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It's not the people R80. Putin clearly hasn't trained or prepared his troops properly and his generals haven't given enough thought or funding to supply lines and armaments.

This is what happens when kleptocrats run your country - they steal literally everything and even the army has basically nothing to work with.

Russia's soldiers should march right back and tell Putin and his cronies to fuck himself.

R90 It's far from over though. It's only been a few days and the Russians have a lot more coming.

Russia has no more troops to call up immediately. It will take time to arm and move them, R91.

Ukraine has an army of 250k so maybe 150k Russians isn’t enough. Peace talks need to start somewhere before many more people die on both sides.

R91. Definitely not over, yeah. But some people are saying that the Russian army are running low on ammo, rockets and other supplies. It's also extremely expensive to wage a war like this (someone said $20b a day but who knows if that's true). A bigger army just means more people to feed, arm, and organize.

If they truly are having a supply problem the battle is basically over before it starts, regardless of how many people you throw at the problem. Its Russia's strategy for WW1 all over again.

Peasants and pitchforks does not an army make.

Has the Russian Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow issued a statement yet?

Whatever happened to the psycho Chechnyans that were deployed?

Apologies if this has been posted before.

But it’s good news so

Connected

There are anecdotes of Russian troops rioting and refusing to move into Ukraine.

You'd think Putin's billionaire buddies would take him out.

"My, this borscht and chicken kiev is especially delicious today. You must try some..."

[QUOTE] Whatever happened to the psycho Chechnyans that were deployed?

They were 'annihilated' by Ukraine soldiers last night according to the Mail Online. Ukraine is being supplied with money and free weapons hand over fist while Russia has now been banned from SWIFT so its banks can't even trade in foreign currency.

Yas, Elon Musk finally made himself useful. Hope he gave Ukraine the devices necessary to connect to Starline as I doubt your average Android is up to the job.

[QUOTE] Whatever happened to the psycho Chechnyans that were deployed?

Destroyed overnight. See R89 for article.

The Russians are still stuck in the 1940s and think that tank power can win a war but these lumbering dinosaurs are powerless against 21st century missiles and get blown to smithereens.

Turkey needs to step up and block Russian warships from the Black Sea.

We need to arm the Ukraine forces with some good ole fashioned rocket launchers. These can take out tanks as if they were gnats. Just be sure not to let them fall into enemy hands or we’ll see another commercial passenger jets being shot down all over again. How short our memories are. It wasn’t that long ago that one of those pro-Russian asshats shot down a Malaysia Flight 17 jet flying over Donetsk.

These ignorant pro-Russian thugs in Donbas and Lunesk region to have their balls handed to them!

Link in next thread to follow.

Here is the link. Many innocent Norwegians dead in smith teens because of ignorant Russian thugs provided military grade weapons.

There's definitely some truth to that R104. Someone was saying tanks are like half a million (or a million) whereas the rocket launchers to take them out are $100,000. The economic imbalance is stark. Plus tanks are just metal coffins for soldiers inside. Handheld weaponry have gotten extremely dangerous now.

[quote]BBC World News is reporting possible talks between Putin and Ukrainian government officials. It seems a bit more possible now.

"The Kremlin said Sunday that a Russian delegation had arrived in the Belarusian city of Homel for talks with Ukrainian officials. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the delegation includes military officials and diplomats.

Ukraine's president says his country is ready for peace talks with Russia but not in Belarus, which was a staging ground for Moscow's 3-day-old invasion.

Speaking in a video message Sunday, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy named Warsaw, Bratislava, Istanbul, Budapest or Baku as alternative venues. He said other locations are also possible but made clear that Ukraine doesn't accept Russia's selection of Belarus."

**blown into smithereens**

[QUOTE] We need to arm the Ukraine forces with some good ole fashioned rocket launchers.

They have been armed with these and more have been sent from Germany. This is how they took out the Chechs last night, who had 56 tanks.

Ukraine are being sent rocket launchers and sophisticated weaponry from all over the world while Russia is being cut off from international companies it purchases weapons from.

Most of the passengers on MH17 were Dutch, not Norwegian, R106. The flight departed from Amsterdam.

Putin just announced Russia's nuclear defences are going onto high alert. Obvious dick-waving proof his plans aren't working out as expected.

[quote] BBC World News is reporting possible talks between Putin and Ukrainian government officials. It seems a bit more possible now. BBC is usual correct reporting. Pray this materializes very soon…

What will happen in PEACE AT ANY COST is Ukraine will be forced to give up Crimea and other occupied territories to appease the West to gain entry into NATO.

R112. If he nukes Ukraine is NATO going to respond in kind? They fucking better.

It's one thing to nuke people if you're own country/regime is actually under threat (as sick as that is). It's the world's biggest temper tantrum to do it when you don't get your way.

[QUOTE] If he nukes Ukraine is NATO going to respond in kind? They fucking better.

Not with the way the wind blows the radiation straight over to the UK and any radiation from Ukraine straight into Russia. Putin is more likely to unlease his megaton bombs that stop short of being nuclear. Nobody wants that radiation.

If the Ukrainian president went to Belarus he would be poisoned, kidnapped, tortured and beheaded.

Putin is trolling to the end.

R115. I thought megaton bombs were nuclear? How much damage can non-nuclear weapons inflict?

R112 sounds like the same kind of cowardly threat they made about the ISS. "See these nice nukes/ISS? Would be a shame if something happened to them...."

BBC NEWS ALERT:

Zelenskiy: Ukrainian and Russian delegations to meet without preconditions Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the Ukrainian and Russian delegations will meet without preconditions in Belarus.

oh fuck, that's dangerous for Zelenskiy.

Putin is Ivan the Terrible who murdered many of his countrymen and purposefully created conflicts within Russia to destabilize and kill off any group he thought was a threat to his power. He killed his own son himself and personally beheaded noblemen. He was a monster but a Russian type. Putin is that type.

Source R119? I googled but can't find anything.

Nigerian Twitter post.

R122

Thanks R125. Border sounds less risky than in Belarus proper.

Still dangerous though.

"delegations", not the persons of Zylensky and Putin.

Meeting at the boarder? This will end in tears, and blood.

Dont do it, it's a set up.

This guy says the story of Nigerians and other Black people not allowed on the trains is a Russian opp. Dig around his Twitter, there's a story of a pregnant Black woman who made it onto one of the trains.

As long as it's not Zelenskyy himself R128 it should be manageable. Putin would be inviting further repercussions for little gain if he killed the Ukrainian delegates.

Ok, now MSNBC is reporting that they're hearing from Ukraines that Russion tanks and military equipment have the letter "Z" on them.

Not standing for Zorro.

R131 what does it mean?

I think it means those are the last of the tanks R132. Like A squadron etc.

If true that's hilarious.

Even though the delegations are meeting at the border with Belarus, the peace is supposed to be negotiated remotely by Israel. Zelensky reached out to Israel, and Israel called Putin.

r132 - I'm thinking "Z" for Zylensky.

But, I'm very skeptical about my own hopeful interpretation of this report. It seems way too good to be true.

But, if it is true, I'll be sobbing like the sentimental fool "Mary!" that I am.

The Z tanks were rolling around two days ago.

I'll take your word for it, r136.

I thought they only have so many letters anyway.

R47 Jews only care about Jews. That’s why they get hated on, they can’t help being selfish.

Russia uses z on their tanks because their equipment and Ukrainian equipment is identical. It's the only way to tell them apart.

Do any of you follow Anthony Walker on Twitter? If not, you probably should.

I found this post.

it is true

Canada just closed its airspace to all Russian aircraft.

Will this affect flights between the US and Russia? I'm sure some of them must fly over the arctic?

likely will

Things aren't going as planned for Putin in Ukraine, the world now sympathizes with Ukraine, and Zelensky has become a superhero overnight, while Putin is even more hated and shunned by the entire world. The ruble isn't worth shit, Russians are out on the streets protesting, and I am sure that Putin's oligarchs aren't impressed with any of those latest developments.

What does a crazy narcissist with access to nuclear weapons do in this situation?

Kill himself hopefully R147.

I'm sure he has one more trick up his sleeve.

R141 Which Anthony Walker is he? I searched, but there are many.

This one, R150.

He's pretty amazing.

Sounds like Ukraine has agreed to talks with Russia.

Ukrainian ambassador: Russia ‘handing out gas masks’ ahead of potential chemical attack

not listening to Russian press

Ukrainians killing Ukrainians.

R156. I don't believe that for a second. What sort of shady news org is that supposed to be?

Wow the Russian trolls seem to have made their way to DL this morning, they're clotting up all of the War threads with sketchy sourced nonsense

R156, the video you linked to has been popping up on Twitter all morning. Nobody knows who those people are and what the situation was.

But the title is always “Ukrainians shooting Ukrainians”. That’s more telling than what’s actually shown in the video. Pure propaganda until this is confirmed by reputable sources.

R159. The Russian trolls have finished their collective cry session, that's why it's popping up. They really aren't subtle about it, even on datalounge.

I've been drunk all week. Not sure will get paid.

As a side note, cable news nets must be "loving" this invasion, which is being played out in real time in somewhat hyperspeed, with the underdogs & their attractive charismatic leader on one side (which has helped garnered the support of practically everyone else in the world), and a crazed & evil autocratic Bond-ish villain on other. It's hard not to be sucked in, and hoping for a just conclusion.

r159, those videos are easily doctored with audio from other sources, and there is NO reliable source cited for this

R162, and Twitter.

[quote] Turkey needs to step up and block Russian warships from the Black Sea.

Done, and done R104!

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

or. .

R165, good for Turkey but all the warship Russians need are already there. And the sea has been cleared of any Western ones.

^^I doubt your assertions. I won't get fooled again believing unsourced armchair war experts.

How is the troll activity going? Has it slowed down? I generally block them but I'm curious if it's as busy as it has been since Shit for Brains lost the election.

Lots of kremlin-sounding trolls about. “Europe does nothing”. “The west had it coming”

trump needs to volunteer for the Russian armed services. After all, he was our first communist president.

Lots of Russian trolls trying to spread disinformation that Russia is winning and Ukraine is using human shields or such nonsense. It's honestly pathetic.

Awesome

Delta suspends partnership with Russian airline

Here comes more.

What happened to the 3-mile convoy of Russian tanks headed to Kyiv?

Ukraine forever!

The answer?

Update from The Guardian, 1 hr ago:

British intelligence and Ukrainian report agree that Russia has slowed down its offensive. "Britain's defense ministry has said Russia's advance on Kyiv has been slowed by logistical failures and fierce Ukrainian resistance."

More from The Guardian, 1 hr ago: “The bulk of Putin’s ground forces remain more than 30km to the north of Kyiv, their advance having been slowed by Ukrainian forces defending Hostomel airfield, a key Russian objective for day one of the conflict.” Report (Ukraine military?) said approximately 5,300 Russian personnel had died since the invasion began, as well as the destruction of 191 tanks, 29 planes, 29 helicopters and 816 armoured fighting vehicles. An update from Ukraine’s interior ministry late last night said 352 Ukrainian citizens have so far been killed, including 14 children, and a further 1,684 people, including 116 children, have been wounded.

if all of that is true then this is actually going quiet badly from the start

Putin is sending the Wagner mercenary group to kill Zelenskyy. I really hope they don't get him!! He has become such an important symbol for western unity and democracy and as an actor and performer he really knows how to convey that.

what are the wagner mercenaries?

R183, a pact between Richard Wagner and Robert Wagner to create a super-force that would destroy its enemies with overblown arias and wooden acting.

^And throw ANYONE who disagrees with them overboard!!!

Special troops that operate outside of the army. Very nasty stuff!!

I amazed that Putin is so rich and never put any money into his military. I feel awful for the people of Ukraine but also for these poor young soldiers of the Russian army. They are untrained and some had no clue they were going into war. On CNN this morning they showed a line of Russian trucks that had been bombed and how all the soldiers had died and in the middle of the mess among grenades was a small teddy bear probably either given to a father by his child or a soldier so young that he always kept it with him. All so senseless. I guess I had never thought about freedom outside my own country but realized that almost the entire world is free. Hoping we are ending the world of all the Putins that are left in the world.

don't hold your breath

R184 and R185 I'm laughing so hard right now. Just what I needed. Thank you!

r162 and just like that nobody talk about the pandemic anymore

nope, wrong, Hong Kong and Korea are talking about it, they are experiencing horrible surges in infections Also, the CDC just made new rules about masking. ALSO, the UK just lifted all restrictions. so wrong again

Former CIA director: 'It’s going abysmally' for Putin

Why is there one bozo coming into all of the war threads to say nobody's talking about the pandemic anymore? This is the War Room, sir, go lick the toilet seat at your local Wendys if you're so hard up to prove something

Heartbreaking, R187. It's Putin's war, and some 5,000 Russian soldiers have already died.. those numbers!!

R190, R193 - NO FIGHTING! THIS IS THE WAR ROOM !!

[quote]I've heard that shockingly Israel may be the neutral place.. which is fucked up because Putin claims he is denazifying Ukraine from a Jewish president.

I assume Israel stays "neutral" to maintain its Russian connections and feed intel to the West.

@KyivIndependent·11h

Google Maps disables Google Maps’ live traffic overlay and Live Busyness, a feature that displays how popular a location may be at a given time.

Google reportedly made the change in an effort to help keep Ukrainians safe.

Israel, all Arab countries, India, China are among the neutral.

IOC urges sports organizations to exclude athletes from Russia and Belarus - what a joke, kinda late by 2 wks. I guess they draw the line on unprovoked invasion of peaceful nations, but not state-sanctioned doping.

What the IOC means by 'exclusion' is a total joke - the Russians still can compete in their own team and have a flag with the colors of the Russian flag on it. It's so meaningless in reality.

The IOC is even being shown up by FIFA, for God's sake. It will go the same way, but is just making itself look ridiculous- countries will refuse to compete until the IOC changes it's tune. It didn't take that many countries to do this for FIFA to crack.

Richard Haass: The Invasion Is Going Much Worse Than Putin Could Have Imagined

according to a russian friend, but for some spotty coverage of some distant protests, Russians aren't getting much honest coverage of the invasion and think a lot of things are going really well for Russia

R203, that sound familiar.

The IOC should shut up and sit down. They really have no room to talk.

Fifa was stuck between placating Russia and Qatar.

Russia: don't you fucking dare, after all the money we gave you for 2018.

Qatar: after all the money we have given you for 2022 and now no one will show up if Russia does...you better ban their Slavic asses.

Fifa, caught between a corrupt rock and a hard place.

The Ukrainian ambassador Sergei Kyslytsya read texts between a now dead Russian solider and his mother.

The son said we have left Crimea and I am scared.

The mother said your father wants to send you a package.

The son was all huh? We are actually at war and it’s nothing like what is reported at home. We are ordered to attack all the cities including civilians. We were told the Ukrainians would welcome us. But they are throwing themselves under tanks to stop us and are calling us fascists.

R203, yeah, he mentioned that a american Foxnews watchers get about the same slanted reportage

R206, that is horrendous

R208

And yet predictable. The fascist leaders of the Soviet Union have *never* cared for their citizens. Read "Hope against Hope" by Nadia Mandelstam about the oppressions of the 1930s.

I'm amazed at the amount of English the Ukrainians speak. They are impressive.

Putin is fighting back

With the Russian financial collapse, all of Glenn Greenwald's checks are going to bounce. Which authoritarian dictator's cock will he have to suck now? Bolsonaro's?

The Russians haven't even brought out the heavy weapons yet. We can't sit back and watch millions of people die.

Go bray about your other right wing troll talking point: trans, R211. Oh, wait, you already have...

Poor trolls. They have to quickly post, wrap up their operation and collect that handful of rubles before the Internet Research Agency goes bankrupt.

I’m against Putin r214, you imbecile! I’m just stating that Putin is upping his efforts

The trolls have not been really making the case. Sure, they are copying and pasting to meet the quotas. But their heart isn’t in it anymore. I can tell they want to join the protests themselves

Winning.

R216 So Putin is fighting back against the Ukrainians who are only fighting back at him because he invdaded their country?

It's hard for me to understand someone "fighting back" when they are the only one who started fighting in the first place.

Russian military convoy north of Kyiv stretches for 40 miles

Boris Johnson clearly said "eventually militarily" when he talked about the ways the UK would help.

Maybe I shouldn't say it, but I hope he meant it.

Or do we just roll over and let Russia kill Zelenskiy and put in a puppet gov't in Kviv?

Ukraine just got some fighter jets from Poland; hoping they can put them to use tonight before that convoy becomes operational.

"Russian military convoy north of Kyiv stretches for 40 miles"

Um... maybe destroy the road? Blow a bridge or two up?

Does Ukraine have an air force? The convoys should be bombed. If not possible, they need to be ambushed by molotovs along the way. Maybe the convoys can't be stopped but they should suffer on the way.

Poland is loaning them bomber planes…it’s going to come down to timing.

More specifics: Poland is donating MiG-29s to Ukraine's Air Force and Ukrainian pilots are already in Poland to pick them up. Source: Politico

This reminds me of when the Germans got into a huge traffic jam in the Ardennes in 1940 but the French Command didn't believe their pilots. Could have totally changed the course of WW2.

Fuck them up, Ukrainian pilots in borrowed Polish fighter jets!

Did they already have an air force and do they have enough trained pilots?

Where are Byron and Shelley when you need them? (like when they went to fight in the Greek War for independence)

This is how Prince Harry can redeem himself! And Megs can be the navigator or... take selfies or something.

"Harry first got trained on helicopters in 2008 and in 2012 qualified as an Apache pilot"

Now that the Russian citizens are going to feel the pinch, it's time for Putin's wealth to be revealed to them.

I'm thinking the oligarchs as they see their yachts impounded and bank accounts frozen and the military seeing unexpected losses of lives and equipment might have to take matters into their own hands .

I'm reminded of the underrated movie 'Death of Stalin' and the coup against Beria .

Maybe Putin's next?

[quote]Now that the Russian citizens are going to feel the pinch, it's time for Putin's wealth to be revealed to them.

That's a good idea. Maybe it's something Anonymous can do.

The opera ain’t gonna be over until the fat lady sings

By tying itself to a reckless and dangerous America, the Ukrainians made a blunder that client states will study for years to come

Putin is threatening us (Americans and NATO Allies) with Nuclear Weapons. We are at war now. We have to stop PUTIN. Even the Russian People want this WAR to stop.

Please attach your sources. TIA.

R236?

putin has been threatening us (USA) and our allies. He is killing civilians and children in Ukraine. There is a war is Europe. my sources are on every single fucking newspaper and channel in the world.

Those are no longer just threats though. Per BBC NEWS just now:

Russian troops based in the country’s far east are heading for manoeuvres closer to Europe, the Interfax news agency quoted Russia’s eastern military district as saying on Tuesday.

The troops will hold drills in the Astrakhan province which lies on the border between the European and Asian parts of Russia, and will train in long-distance movements of military units, among other tasks, the district command said.

I don’t know, but i believe these negotiations are a stall tactic meant to deceive the West. Im afraid all Western Allies need to launch a full-scale, massive offensive and bomb the shit out of Russia. There is not going be an “end”/ceasefire. This will require taking out a nuclear power. If not, all Ukrainians will be slaughtered. Putin will not stop. This is no longer just about saving the Ukraine. Get surrounding nations to ready their anti-ballistic missile defense.

The Wagner group, paid by Putin to assassinate Zelenskyy, is not an official Russian military division. They are a group of highly trained, ruthless and vicious Chechen mercenaries, officially not affiliated with anyone, which is why Putin has is secretly paying them to assassinate Zelenskyy, so that he can deny any responsibility.

Check out r236's other posts, r239. F/F him to smithereens....then Ignore. He's dangerous.

All you people who keep posting "the Ukraine" instead of "Ukraine" must be older than dirt.

Interesting interview with Russia’s Nobel-prize-winning paper:

[quote] Putin will never leave power of his own will. The [2020] vote on amendments to the Russian constitution, which allowed him to continue his tenure as President, became, for him, a kind of referendum. He received 77.9 per cent of the vote, according to official figures, and this gives him confidence in his legitimacy. His entourage is quite convinced that “Without Putin, there is no Russia.” The speaker of the Duma, the parliament, has said this. But the younger generations of Russians, from whom the world and the future are now being taken away, no longer believe this.

Fuck off ADD snowflake. Go back to your cell phone gaming.

I think the focus should be on eradicating a mad man. Same as with bin Laden and Hussein. Let Russia scramble around and try to figure out what to do next.

I don't think the Wagner group is exclusively Chechen mercenaries. It's just some elite group that is trained in type of warfare that goes beyond legality. Hence why they are not part of the military.

Zelenskyy probably has a target painted on the back of his head for the rest of his life, certainly until Putin croaks.

Fiona Hill gave a very chilling interview about how she thinks this will evolve.

FWIW, heard on MSNBC both Col. Vindman (of the first Trump impeachment fame) and Financial Times' EiC saying that instead of oligarch pressure, what might topple Putin is the centuries old Russian tradition of a palace coup - in their opinion, by the 3rd, 4th ranks below him, likely from the secret services and the military.

Articles like R236 are so stupid. They try and blame Ukraine for "tying itself to America" whilst simultaneously making statements like Ukraine is robbed of all agency, calling it a "weapon of America". They act all concerned over Ukrainian people but they're really trying to control the narrative and remove actual Ukrainians and their perspectives from the equation. It truly is the worst kind of doublethink.

Ukrainians seem to be supporting NATO and its efforts to arm and supply them against Putin's stupid invasion. Trying to rob them of their voices to fuel your pro-Kremlin agenda is disgusting.

Latest Q-tard theory

Fiona Hill demonstrated poise, presence and courage in Trump’s FIRST impeachment.

She has written a good biography on Putin, and despite Donald Trump’s thrashing of her, the article R249 posted is chilling but an important read.

Takeaways:

1) Putin is heading towards the level of Hitler.

2) She would not put it past him to use nukes.

3) He’s surrounded by sycophants.

4) If he is allowed to take Ukraine unchecked, he likely will continue in the vein of Hitler.

5) Governments are not enough to stop him without escalation. Businesses/ Corporations/Individuals also must cut off the Hydra Head of Putin by shunning Russia.

Although the above is difficult to hear, I believe there are some positives to this:

1) Putin - or rather Zelensky/Ukraine - have managed to unite literally millions - if not a billion - of individuals worldwide.

2) Shutting down Russia may be difficult for some things (countries’ economies/businesses) but it will leave Russian Trolls/disinformation/etc. vulnerable. And make them more readily apparent to deal with.

3)Another thing that will become more exposed is the massive money laundering operation(sale of weapons/Russia resources/etc.) that runs out of Russia and through many Western countries. This has implications for the US and the Republicans/Russiaplicans. Recall all the Republicans who flew to Russia on July 4th during Trump’s tenure?

4) Speaking of Trump, his comments about Putin being “savvy” for invading Ukraine are only looking more and more out of touch - even to those who have normally supported him. Combine this with his revisionist history regarding NATO and Ukraine (the reason for his FIRST impeachment), this is sticking out like a huge RED FLAG: in many respects. Perhaps this will push some here into looking further into his ties with Russia and the legitimacy of his 2016 election. At the very least, he’s now backtracking..

5) NATO and Western Countries are more unified than they have been in decades, if not since WWII. Even neutral Switzerland is joining the ostracism.

6) Even Dems and Republicans are generally (save the absolute nutters) supportive of Ukraine. It seems to be a point of commonality we have not witnessed in some time. Nothing like the threat of nukes to do it.

A poster on Reddit posted this about the meaning of the white letters painted on Russian tanks, trucks, helicopters, etc. :

The Letter “V” represents the Russian Marines

The Letter “Z” represents units in the Eastern Military District

The Letter “Z” in a square represents the Southern Military District (Crimea)

The Letter “O” represents units from Belarus

The Letter “X” represents the forces of Ramzan Kadyrov, the Putin installed warlord of Russia’s Chechnya region.

The Letter “A” represents Russian Special Forces(SSO) like Spetznaz in its various operational units.

The source is linked below.

[quote]The Letter “X” represents the forces of Ramzan Kadyrov, the Putin installed warlord of Russia’s Chechnya region.

Kadyrov is the president of the Chechnya region. He's wasn't installed by Putin but has Putin's support. He inherited the post from his father because the culture in the Caucuses respects patrilineal succession.

He's a terrifying creature with an affinity for celebrities.

I don't know if the Chechen tank column that was wiped out by Ukrainians was marked "X" or a different designation. They were the most reviled division, the 141 motorized regiment of the Chechnya National Guard. A top Chechen general who led them, Magomed Tushayev, was killed in the attack.

[quote] He's a terrifying creature with an affinity for celebrities.

Thanks for the heads up on Kadyrov, R255. Did not know of his affinity for slebs.

Also, R254 and R256, thanks for the potential solve of the mystery of the Russians’ lettering and the general.

One more thing Fiona said that wasn’t mentioned: she feels like we are already in WWIII territory....She doesn’t seem like someone prone to hyperbole.

One question for those more familiar with Israel.

I get how the country would be friendly with Ukraine(Zelensky heritage), but why are they also friendly with Russia? Did not/does not Russia persecute Jews?

Everyone in western governments knows the current negotiations are worthless and that the Russians are not acting in good faith. The Ukrainians are there purely to show they are not intransigent.

This will go down in history as Putin's war, not Russia. Just saying.

R258 Russian is the third most spoken language in Israel and every election politicians have to pander to the large, Jewish Russian voting bloc. A large part of Israel's population is of Russian heritage.

Putin has been playing dirty for a long time. Remember all the poisonings? Salisbury, England?

Poisoning of Navalny? Also, the leader who developed facial disfigurement?

All the people....doctors....scientists...politicos who just “fell out of windows”.

His aggression throughout the world? Georgia? Crimea? Syria? Even Ukraine before now.

Putin really is a Bond-level villain.

Interesting article as to why everyone enabled Putin for so long.

No, I'm not Sergei or Ludmilla, but I'm feeling a certain way at the world's response to the unjust invasion of Ukraine which was missing from similarly unjust invasions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't help but think it's because Ukrainians are white and European which is why it's hit close to home for most westerners more than the other two. If anything, I hope this reinforces the anti-war movement and helps them turn out next time the United States decides to invade another country, because we all know it's just a matter of time.

Thanks R261. You taught me something new.

What will happen after this conflict is resolved? Will sanctions remain and will gas prices continue trending high? I know China has been working on a deal to purchase Russian gas so Europe's pivot to liquefied gas from America won't do anything keep prices affordable.

[quote] I can't help but think it's because Ukrainians are white and European which is why it's hit close to home for most westerners more than the other two.

Likely this, but don’t believe this is the entire story. After several years of a worldwide pandemic, roiling economies, increasing climate disasters that affect us all, I believe the tolerance level for manmade (in this instance, egomaniacal Putin) disasters is incredibly low. People have had ENOUGH.

In sum, it’s more complicated than just the WhItE PeOpLe are being affected. And more nuanced.

Also as posted above, Putin has been creeping around for quite some time. Think this level of aggression is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[quote] If anything, I hope this reinforces the anti-war movement and helps them turn out next time the United States decides to invade another country, because we all know it's just a matter of time.

If Putin pushes this too far, many will be over war: literally and figuratively.

R262 Don't forget the apartment bombings in 1999 which many think Putin arranged as a false flag to justify the second Chechen war. 307 people were killed and over 1,000 injured.

This was always heartbreaking for me.

And yes, he’s Ukrainian: leader of the opposition.

Putin is criminally evil.

Again…Putin is going to go all in. And for the first time, it seems that Vindman guy is correct: Putin will double down again and again. Any and all fake negotiations with false delegations is a means to sidetrack Western media in a deceptive false sense of hope.

At this point, perhaps we should let Putin claim victory over Ukraine and simply wait for Russia to implode and then simply re-claim Ukraine as a Western ally. Let Putin raise his Russian flag in Kiev. Russia will fold soon after with a complete internal collapse. Perhaps Zelenskyy should relent and save Ukrainian lives by retreat because those who live will be able to repopulate their land after Putin’s fall.

[quote]Articles like [R236] are so stupid.

Articles like R236 are pure propaganda.

^ I'm struck by how simplistically Americans view this conflict. Honestly, is it a failure of Western media or just a bad education system? Do people really believe Russia invaded Ukraine just because they could? That there were no underlying reasons simmering for years that led to this escalation? And do you really believe Russia's another North Korea that will spend the following decades isolated from the rest of the world's economy whilst its much needed resources stay un exploited underground?

Questions for Russian experts here. I know it's still seen as a long way off, but father time remains undefeated. Is anyone in Russia seen as Putin's potential successor?

Don't be disingenuous R271. People know there are numerous possible reasons why Putin started this invasion but none of them are good and NONE justify the attempted destruction of a sovereign nation nor the killing of its peoples.

This is a huge waste of lives all for one man's ego.

^ I agree there's no justification. But was NATO membership so important that it just couldn't have been removed from the table to save civilian lives? Does NATO absolutely have to expand to Russia's border? Is neutrality for Ukraine such a bad concept if it avoids war?

Another question I dare not ask in the wrong spaces but if Ukraine is inevitably going to fall to the Russians, is it a good idea to provide them with weapons that will only extend the destruction and casualties from an unwinnable war? Is it responsible to encourage Ukrainians to engage in protracted guerilla warfare to make their country ungovernable? I really hope Ukraine doesn't become like Syria or Libya.

[quote] But was NATO membership so important that it just couldn't have been removed from the table to save civilian lives?

You are laboring under the delusion that possible, potential, maybe-in-a-few decades NATO membership for Ukraine was the reason for Putin's invasion. It was not.

R274. If Ukraine wants to join NATO they should be allowed. It's really not up to Putin and it shouldn't be. And if he wants to avoid war then he shouldn't have started one.

Similarly, if Ukraine wants to fight the war, even if it is "unwinnable", they should be helped in any way they can. It's their home that's under threat and their decision. Stop trying to rob Ukraine of it's agency and sovereignty.

And stop victim blaming too.

[quote] But was NATO membership so important that it just couldn't have been removed from the table to save civilian lives?

they weren't on the docket, and frankly, why would that have mattered, Putin clearly wouldn't have cared, he wants them as a buffer state and he wants access to their vast oil reserves. it doesn't matter what you think

Admission of a new member also requires unanimous consent from existing members. There's no way Hungary would have said yes -- at least, prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Even now, Hungary won't allow weapons to be transported across its territory to Ukraine.

Because, OBVIOUSLY, Putin never would have attacked Ukraine if it had remained outside of Nato...Welcome to BIZARRO WORLD, Comrades!!

And Russia is BY FAR the biggest nation on earth (FIFTEEN TIME ZONES wide), and by any civilized standards it is a complete FLOP, and all because of its fascist, dictatorial system of government, a criminal oligarchy. Russia is a failed state, the biggest country in the world, that still needs to gobble up everything around it.

One of the conditions of joining NATO is that the country must not have disputed territory. So why the hell couldn't Putin just have stopped with Crimea? Or even Donbass if you really believe his claim of protecting ethnic Russians? That would have guaranteed that Ukraine would be kept out of NATO (unless NATO changed their conditions to join).

This really wasn't about NATO. That doesn't make sense. And like another poster said, Ukraine as a sovereign country should be allowed to choose that anyway.

[quote]Because, OBVIOUSLY, Putin never would have attacked Ukraine if it had remained outside of Nato...

Ukraine isn't a part of NATO and Putin's main reason for attacking is to gain complete control of their offshore oil reserves and shale deposits

r281, it's big, but nearly all of russia lives in the flat eastern european plain where Mscow and all the big cities are. nearly no one lives east of Omsk. The very wide flat plain has historically been nearly indefensible - at least on the ground. Think of how tiny resourceless Switzerland can afford to be rich and neutral, their geography allows it for a greater part. Russia has only a couple geographic advantages, being huge, and being cold. The cold part is well, going away so. . .. .

[quote] If Ukraine wants to join NATO they should be allowed. It's really not up to Putin and it shouldn't be. And if he wants to avoid war then he shouldn't have started one.

I admire her greatly, but a major reason why Ukraine was blocked from joining because of Angela Merkel. Pulled nuclear out of Germany making it reliant on Russian gas, did basically nothing after the Crimean invasion in 2014.

The problem with appeasement is that it works only in the short term.

R275, I agree. It’s part of a growing international trend of leaders suddenly acting like they don’t have to agree to human rights norms. And ultimately this is the result of of the “anti-woke” movement. So much of that movement is about making fun of people who care about human rights. But even in conservative countries like Russia that may be Russian Orthodox there’s going to be backlash against this.

[quote]In sum, it’s more complicated than just the WhItE PeOpLe are being affected. And more nuanced

I don't think so, r266. Europe is really showing its hand. Ukrainians being white, blonde and blue-eyed is a major driver concerning the response. These are the kinds of migrants the EU wants.

R263, I recall demonstrations against the Iraq war.

But as to people identifying with Ukrainians, why wouldn't they? It's human nature. You identify with your family, village, town, city, state, country, etc. And besides the greater difference between your average European and an Afghan peasant, there's also the feeling that all you ever hear from some countries is war and strife; people are inured to it.

R287, you're showing your hand. For the most part, Europeans are scared for themselves--they fear either a Putin invasion or his nukes.

R287 the vast majority of those fleeing Ukraine right now still have lives, property and other attachments to that country. They will almost certainly return there once the war is over. That's the key difference.

Did you not see Brexit? Lots of Brexit voters wanted out because there was too much (lily-white) immigration from Poland and that area.

well, nobody likes the pollacks except for their big dicks and martha.

Is this talking about the so-called Wagner Group that people on this board won't stop posting about? The article's not clear, but it's saying an "elite fighting unit" sent to kill the Ukranian President by Putin was all killed

R293, No, that's Kadyrov's Chechen troops. The Wagner Group mostly recruits from regular Russian servicemen.

Article below is about developments in Russia after the USSR collapsed, and how it became a country with great wealth disparities.

R295 You trollovs are getting a bit obvious. We get it, you want to promote the idea that the west is to blame for this. But anyone with actual common sense can see that it was your psycho dictator's decision. Every time he goes to war, it makes Russia's economy worse. It's shameful you support him, whether you're a mercenary or not.

R296, I don’t support him whatsoever. He’s a kleptocrat dictator. I didn’t support Reaganomics or Trump either, or any of the right wing governments internationally. The article is about Russia and what happened to Russia in 1993.

R297 Putin could have stuck with stabilising Russia or developing Russia's economy. Instead he decided to go to war multiple times and every single time it dragged the Russian economy backwards.

R298, I agree, but I also don’t think Putin should have ever been in power in the first place. He was appointed by Yelsin after Yeltsin violently attacked Parliament and Russia was never a democracy afterwards. It’s relevant internationally because Trump always expressed admiration for him, and because January 6th could easily have ended like the assault on Parliament.

well yes, I agree, but he's still the one who is in power. And he's a psychotic, deranged, murderous dictator.

Don't forget that Putin is the one who ordered the assassination of his rival Boris Nemtsov and his Ukrainian partner Anna Durytska's death (at least I'm 90% sure of that). A Russia run by Nemtsov would definitively have been better. It's sad.

Boris Nemtsov was killed by four shots to the back on a bridge. And in the weeks before his death, Nemtsov expressed fear that Putin would have him killed. Nemtsov had criticized Putin's government as an increasingly authoritarian, undemocratic regime, highlighting widespread embezzlement and profiteering ahead of the Sochi Olympics, and Russian political interference and military involvement in Ukraine. After 2008, Nemtsov had published in-depth reports detailing the corruption under Putin, which he connected directly with the President.

“Inside Russia, a top radio station critical of the Kremlin was taken off the air after authorities threatened to shut it down over its coverage of the invasion. Among other things, the Kremlin is not allowing the fighting to be referred to as an “invasion” or “war.”

Roughly 660,000 people have fled Ukraine, and countless others have taken shelter underground. Bomb damage has left hundreds of thousands of families without drinking water, U.N. humanitarian coordinator Martin Griffiths said.“

[quote] He was appointed by Yelsin after Yeltsin violently attacked Parliament and Russia was never a democracy afterwards.

There's a wider context to that. Russia has been ruled by tzars, totalitarian regimes or autocratic populists throughout its history. The episode with Yeltzin and the rise of Putin only shows what can happen when the there's no democratic governing tradition to lean on in case of crises (unlike the ex-Soviet satellite states in Eastern Europe.)

Can Russia not access Twitter, Instagram, Youtube? It's all just blacked out? Or have the Russians managed to make sure they can only access Kremlin propaganda?

How do they do that?

Get on this Zuckerberg Musk Bezos... oh I don't know their names. Who runs Google?

R304; yes, the Russian Empire was ruled by a Tsar, but the British Empire was ruled by kings and queens; it doesn’t have to stay that way. Ukraine once was conquered by Russia’s Tsar and spent decades as part of the USSR, but still became a democracy. I think Putin wants to be a tsar, not that Russia wants a tsar. Their whole 1917 revolution was to overthrow the tsar.

I think Putin wants to recapture the USSR R306 - I'm certain he sees it as the pinnacle of Russian power. I think he's forgotten that the USSR was built on supranational post-war ideology, not this nationalist fervor he's so keen on.

R306, Britain had the Magna Carta and centuries of parliamentary tradition. The fist formally constituted parliament in Russia was the Imperial State Duma in 1905.

Not remotely in the same ballpark.

This guy, who grew up in the Soviet Union but is now a professor or writer or something in London, has a very good video on why Putin is invading Ukraine and what he thinks will happen. Eerie.

[quote]Their whole 1917 revolution was to overthrow the tsar.

Sure, and what followed?

R307, Russian historian/New Yorker editor David Remnick says that Putin isn’t interested in another USSR-he hated the ideology he knew was doomed to fail. All he wants is a Russian empire-not unlike Hitler’s desire for a Third Reich.

Interesting R311. Shows you how delusional he is. USSR survived so long because of that ideology - it gave people a cause. Why would anyone in or out of Russia want an empire in the modern day?

Cant someone in that country of 144 million people put a bullet in that reptile's head?

All of these people who can now easily see what life looks for the average person in highly developed countries and wondering why they can't have that for themselves. It's powerful.

[quote]he hated the ideology he knew was doomed to fail.. ..All he wants is a Russian empire-not unlike Hitler’s desire for a Third Reich.

Not much difference in essence - all are autocratic / totalitarian ideologies which don't tolerate democratic government. Hence Putin's puppet Duma and the killing of opposition rivals just like the tzars used to kill their (family or not) rivals for the throne. The Russians are historically used to messianic claims to power.

On the other hand, a common feature in post-communist transitions is the rise of ultra-nationalist populists. Tons of former communists rebranded themselves as nationalists overnight so they can cling to power - Milosevic was a prime example. Putin is no exception.

[quote] I can't help but think it's because Ukrainians are white and European which is why it's hit close to home for most westerners more than the other two.

Carrot-Top wannabe Nicole Hannah-Jones made a similar argument but the truth is it has less to do with their skin color and more to do with their lifestyles -- Ukrainians, especially in the cities, live lives that are not markedly different from other Europeans or other Americans and the American media has spent a lot of time talking to marketing manages, tech company workers and the like, as those are the people most likely to speak fluent English

It's that "this could be me!" feeling

R307, he wants to capture the territory that was the USSR. As far as making sure the common person has enough money to live - that is not his goal. Yes, the companies are state owned - that means you can’t oppose the government and still find work. The taxes are flat taxes, not progressive; they place a huge burden on the poor. It’s a Reagan and Trump dream world - the executive branch is written into absolute power, and neither the Parliament nor the judiciary can overrule. From the article below, from a few years ago. “Rubber ducky” balloons and pictures appear at Russian protest rallies as a symbol of the widespread corruption of Russia’s elite. They reinforce the “you hang in there” meme about the huge gap in Russian society between the “haves” and the “have-nots,” and the blatant indifference of the elite toward what has become the greatest divide and potential cause of future unrest in Russian society today.”

He may want more than that R317-- tsarist Russia extended well into modern-day Poland

Definitely R318. The Eastern Bloc reached all the way to Germany. I don't doubt his ambitions go far beyond Ukraine.

That's why I think he idealises the USSR. He may have hated the ideology but once upon a time that same ideology ruled half of Europe and drew dozens of countries from as far afield as South America to Africa into Russia's orbit.

Looks like Moldova is next.

[bold]Belarus president stands in front of battle map indicating Moldova invasion plans[/bold]

Images have emerged of Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko standing in front of a battle map that appears to show a planned invasion of Moldova, along with Ukraine.

Lukashenko, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, was reportedly addressing his security council Tuesday while standing in front of a battle map of Ukraine.

The map appeared to show troop movement plans and infrastructure targets in Ukraine, as well as targets in Moldova's breakaway region of Transnistria.

Some of the Russian lines of attack in the map have already taken place, while others are yet to occur, including an incursion into Moldova — a former Soviet country and Ukraine’s neighbor to the south — from the port city of Odessa.

Russia has already used Belarus as a location from which to send its troops quickly across the border into Ukraine, after insisting the large number of forces assembled there were for joint military drills.

Reports have emerged this week that Belarus is preparing to send troops into Ukraine in support of the Russian invasion.

The country’s close ties to Moscow in the attack prompted the U.S. State Department to suspend operations Monday at its embassy in Belarus.

The European Union also announced plans on Monday to impose new sanctions on Belarus over its role in the war, including measures against exports, oligarchs and banks in the country.

Belarussian state-run Belta news agency reported that Lukashenko said none of the country’s military units had yet moved into Ukraine, but could mobilize in two to three days if needed, as reported by the Daily Express.

The Pentagon, meanwhile, has said it had not yet seen signs of Belarussian troops in Ukraine.

I don't see how he hated the ideology if he was a career KGB officer. Maybe he saw it as failed after the fall of the Soviet Union - which isn't the same thing as 'hating'.

I hope Moldova has improved their aim since the Carringtons were there last.

That was MOLDAVIA, Rose/R322.

Gee, really?

Moldova is in a similar situation that Ukraine was in before the invasion: it has an already occupied part of the territory it doesn't control, the Transdniestr region. Plus, it's much poorer than Ukraine.

Kamala's slimmer.

Countries with expats have to evacuate their own citizens.

Ukraine is evacuating their own citizens and the priority is: Children with their mothers or a female relative. Ukraine is using standard protocol.

Stop lying about this.

Also, the line is LONG. IF you are a child with a family, you are first. These expats adults have to wait. I am sure these expats are scared and the process is exhausting, but this is what is happening and why it is happening. Putin is waging a war on people of Ukraine. We want these children out of there with their mothers/female relatives.

If you have a need to blame someone, it is actually the county's fault for not evacuating them sooner. Or you just know, war is chaos.

This is more dire than you realize

It is clear that Ukraine and USA were warning countries about Putin's plan to invade Ukraine. Most countries did not want to do anything, or even want to state what the evidence was (suppress this evidence). They had time to evacuate their citizens, if they wanted too. They did not want too.

Putin is occupying a sovereign nation in Europe, Ukraine. He is waging a war, killing Ukrainian civilians purposely. Yes, it is BLEAK.

NATO needs to step in if Maldova is invaded. Frankly they should have already stepped in with Ukraine. If Putin thinks he can claim these territories unopposed thanks to his nukes, why wouldn't he go for a NATO country next?

[quote]They had time to evacuate their citizens, if they wanted too. They did not want too.

And they’re now trying to avoid taking responsibility by casting their citizens as victims of racism.

Sorry about R332. It's Moldova, not Maldova.

[quote]NATO needs to step in if Maldova is invaded.

Maldova, what is it good for?

NATO steps in = World War 3

NATO won’t step in for fucking MOLDOVA, are you kidding? Same for Belarus. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are a different story.

No troops on ground

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK ABOUT MONTENEGRO???

I wonder if you Americans ever get tired of the echo chamber. Seriously, you just swallow what your government is feeding you whole without question. You did this about Afghanistan and Iraq too. Honestly, isn't there a single curious mind interested in different perspectives? We have several threads on this and people are posting the same thing over and over with the same assumptions about what Vladimir Putin is thinking.

For starters, no one is trying to recreate the Soviet Union.

[quote ]Does he want to turn the clock back? People often quote his statement “the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”. But it bears pointing out that he enlarged on it later, saying: “Anyone who doesn’t regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains.”

I wish people would be a little more discerning.

You need to be more discerning R340. Obviously he doesn't want to actually reconstruct the USSR. People are just saying that he seems to feel some kind of grievance of the diminishing of Russia's global influence which coincided with the fall of the Soviet Union. All his actions, specifically his recent ones, seem to come from a revanchist desire to reclaim Russia's lost standing in global politics.

It is literally spelled out in those op-eds that were dropped early in Russia State Media when Putin obviously believed the war would be over in a day or two. They were pulled but they are on Twitter.

For you, Poutine.

Kherson has fallen. Damn.

The world is more divided on this issue than the media is reporting. That’s assuming the abstentions are tacit support for Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Bolivia abstained?? What is their beef? Did Putin promise them a navy on the Black Sea?

What the what with South Africa? Still sore about us and apartheid?

Those are a lot fewer abstentions than Putin had when he invaded Crimea.

Ukrainians are nowhere near giving up. That’s important.

[quote]That’s assuming the abstentions are tacit support for Russia and Vladimir Putin.

No, false assumption. They are abstaining because China is. Those African countries in particular get huge support from China and won't do anything to jeopardize that.

Speaking of China:

China sucks. However, I bet they're looking at this and thinking twice about taking over Taiwan so that's one small silver lining of this. China won't want to see the world potentially imposing economic sanctions on them.

That's an interesting point.

And maybe this misadventure could prevent Republicans from cozying up to Russia - or at least cozying up as much.

I have a feeling the very high gas prices are gonna put the R's back in charge of Congress and likely the White House.

Woe is we.

Isn't China in a slightly different position though, given their interconnectedness with the global supply chain? Russia only grows wheat, mines metals and makes vodka and trouble.

R352/Concern Troll, pay attention.

Russkie money which would normally go to GOP campaigns will be either severely curtailed or completely cut off. And thanks to Covid a not insignificant amount of the GOP electorate in red states will be six feet under. And some of those actually contributed $$$ to campaigns, too.

The midterms don’t look like a Dems wipeout, after all.

I haven't had this kind of bomb related anxiety for 30 years, but now I remember why I was so thin as a kid: low grade anxiety nausea from the Cold War anxiety. It is back: Hello Darkness My Old Friend.

Thank you, R354! I'm still traumatized by the DJT years.

Time for the French to revert the spelling and pronunciation of Poutine- it should be Putin!

30 years? ummm....

I'm with you R355. The bomb anxiety is a killer and things have been so quick to fall apart that I just got whiplash.

It's a real shame that the disarmament movement sort of died away after the 90s. There needs to be pressure on governments to get rid of them.

The Chinese foreign minister has now stated to the Ukranian foreign minister that China wants an end to this. The targeting of civilians was the tipping point. This was per an interview with Christiane Amanpour on CNN who interviewed the Ukranian foreign minister. Sorry, I forgot the names. There is a feeling that China probably has some influence with Putin.

Russia is now moving thermobaric vacuum bombs. These are banned weapons. Their only use in this scenario is to target civilians. This has to end.

That's disgusting R361. And NATO is just going to sit around and let it happen. Why would any dictator on Earth give up their nukes now? They can massacre an entire country and get away with it.

Putin isn’t attacking NATO, that is why. But it is barbaric

I wonder if anyone has tried to kill him yet.

R363. That's the rationale, and I do understand the reticence. But if NATO is so scared of nuclear war that they'll overlook a barbaric massacre, I don't strictly trust that they'll do anything even if a NATO country is attacked.

But international law and order isn’t based on what you trust, but the communities of the world.

Still, putin is a butcher

People need to realize that Putin is stuck in the old ways of warfare: tanks, missiles, soldiers with rifles. The world has changed. It would be a mistake to think that just because NATO is not responding with similar old-school tactics that nothing is being done. There are newer ways of dealing with these problems. It's just not as visible or satisfying to those who want to see retaliatory bombings and air strikes.

Cyber attacks

I don't want to see air strikes or retaliatory bombings R367. I just want NATO to park some peacekeeping troops in Kyiv or other cities in Ukraine and see if Putin dares to continue the attack. People are getting killed and frankly I want it to stop. I definitely don't want NATO or Ukraine going anywhere into Russia itself - shit would really hit the fan then.

I do recognise the tremendous work the international community is doing though, sharing intelligence, funds and weapons as well as whatever else goes on behind the scenes. Doesn't change the fact civilians are dying though.

Maybe I'm just naive though.

You are, putin, has never ever backed down. NATO goes it, he declares war on all of NATO, he’s already stated as such

You have decent principles, but yes, you are naive. Putin would lose his shit over any of the scenarios you describe.

[quote]No, false assumption. They are abstaining because China is. Those African countries in particular get huge support from China and won't do anything to jeopardize that.

Still, the best case against the invasion was made by Kenya which still has strong ties to China.

If that's true R370 than surely NATO must recognise that Putin won't stop with just Ukraine. He'll go after anything he sees as his, regardless of NATO membership, because, as you say, he won't back down.

Sitting on the sidelines because Ukraine isn't in NATO is just hiding behind a technicality whilst innocent people die.

They aren’t just sitting, but they aren’t willing to use force at this time

So what? I hate it, but people die. People die because of political violence every day, all over the world. This is terrible but there's a madman on the march who has nuclear weapons and seemingly less to lose each day. This is a time for action decided by cool calibration, not emotion.

Yup, i think most in Ukraine know this better than we do

I suppose R375. I'm just frustrated. The actions they are taking do seem to be both effective without being overly provocative.

I just don't see how this ends well. As you said, Putin's not going to get any less likely to use nukes, regardless of the outcome.

it's an unprecedented development

We're all frustrated. I hate this. But rash action could destroy us all. I hope a secret elite squad is in Russia already and will find a way to take him out. I believe, in the end, the Russian people will become restive enough that the elites purge Putin to secure themselves. The time in between won't be short and will be awful and heart breaking. Our role is not to make bad worse and tighten the screws we can.

most of the Russian people have no idea what is going on

Any kind of reporting that doesn't conform to Kremlin's narrative is getting squashed very quickly.

Putin has begun harassing Sweden. This guy is bonkers, he wants WWIII. He fabricates tension so he can finally drop some nukes on the West.

Could China resolve this? An article from the wretched Daily Mail, but it is interesting theory:

"...swiftly and shockingly, its policy has changed. For behind the scenes, Chinese leader Xi Jinping is reportedly furious with the Russian president.

The Beijing strongman might have accepted a blitzkrieg victory, but not the costs and risks of a protracted war that seems ever more likely.

And why? Put bluntly: China prizes stability — and Putin threatens that. Nothing matters more for China’s nominally communist leaders than continued growth of their giant capitalist economy.

Only through the continued raising of living standards for its 1.4 billion people can the social and regional tensions that plague this vast nation — and threaten the regime’s stranglehold on power — be eased.

Prosperity also underpins Xi’s plan to make China the most powerful country in the world by the middle of the century.

A long war in Ukraine would jeopardise that. It would introduce new risks to the international financial system, cast a chill on global trade, and already means soaring prices for energy, food and fertiliser — all vital resources that China largely imports.

Putin has also breached taboos sacred to China. The Beijing regime detests any notion of outside interference in a nation’s domestic affairs.

It is neurotic about what it calls ‘separatism’ because it knows that its own claims to territories such as Tibet and the self-governing island democracy of Taiwan, for example, are shaky....

Despite superficially friendly ties, China spies hard on Russia — a country that the intensely cautious nation views as ill-run and reckless.

The Kremlin’s nuclear command structure and communications are a top target for all foreign intelligence agencies.

It is not utterly fanciful to imagine Western and Chinese agencies pooling their efforts to prevent the erratic Russian leader from precipitating a nuclear holocaust.

All this explains why China is now so eager to broker a ceasefire. But what would such a deal involve?

Russia’s ragtag forces would rumble home, to be replaced by UN peacekeepers — doubtless including a large contingent from China.

The regions occupied by Russia would come under international administration pending referendums on their future status: to stay in Ukraine or to join Russia.

For its part, Ukraine might have to put its Nato aspirations on hold, while gaining a promise of speedy, unhindered accession to the EU.

Albeit painful, such conditions offer the best long-term prospect of peace and security. And they would be infinitely preferable to the country’s continuing destruction.

The West, spared a colossal humanitarian catastrophe, could devote its efforts to reconstruction — thus ensuring that in the medium-term Ukraine becomes a far more attractive country than Russia for its citizens.

That outcome would be exactly what Putin wants to avoid. But it would be hard for him to stand up to arm-twisting from Beijing.

China is now Russia’s only real lifeline: by far its most important supplier, customer and financial intermediary.

For the crippled Russian economy, even mild sanctions from the East would be devastating.

The greatest winner from all this would be China. Only lately it was heading for international pariahdom for its human rights record and bullying.

Now, a debut at the heights of global diplomacy looms."

China can't do shit, they don't want any values the West has and they can't be trusted anyway.

Oh, OK.

Your ignorance of reality is astounding R384. You don't have to like reality, but there it is.

Does anybody have any news about those mercenaries called the Wagner Group, that wanted to Kill Zelenskyy. There was some news that Ukrainians found them and that the group was eliminated. But no much more on that.

Reality is, dear moron @ R386, that China wants to do the same thing Russia does, annexing a democratic country, Taiwan. Even the idea that you should leave it up to them to negotiate peace is completely absurd!

You seem unable to grasp the reality of the situation without applying politics R388. We don't need to be in love with China or agree with some of their policies in order to use them to help de-escalate the Russia situation. We should use whatever resources available that will solve the problem.

....and no need to call someone a "moron" simply because you have a difference of opinion. That attitude is part of what's wrong in the world today.

Why Putin Is Losing The Information War

OK idiot @R390, you asked for it!

The United Nations just had a vote to condemn Russia's "aggression" against Ukraine 141-5, with 35 abstentions.

Why should a country that couldn't even bother to have an opinion on the resolution lead the peace talks, because they literally would do the same to Taiwan what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

You can't have a neutral stance on this invasion.

^ all emotion. Lucky his power extends to hit Post. And the name calling... grow up.

Poor She Jinping. Gets a break from worrying about one mad white man, and a year later, another one starts throwing his binky out of his crib.

Isn't China almost always neutral in the UN? Which makes you wonder: why participate at all and be a permanent Security Council member if you have no stance on anything? Except for the power of veto.

Politics is the art of the possible. China historically votes with Russia. Sometimes an abstention says a great deal. But let's shout about it instead. Nothing like an absolute purity test to get things done.

This year is very important to Xi's cementing of power. Maybe he'd want to play peacekeeper to get brownie points.

[quote]Chinese President Xi Jinping has spent much of the past decade focused on stability. But as he lays the groundwork for an unprecedented third term as leader, he’s facing more crises than ever. And those threats are overshadowing his wins just as the National People’s Congress is set to meet in Beijing. It’s the biggest political event before a twice-a-decade party leadership reshuffle later this year.

Grow up R392. You sound like a little child bully. And your points are not very well thought out either.

[quote] Does anybody have any news about those mercenaries called the Wagner Group, that wanted to Kill Zelenskyy. There was some news that Ukrainians found them and that the group was eliminated. But no much more on that.

On one of these threads - or somewhere - I read that who was eliminated was a pro-Ukrainian Czechan group who were particularly bloodthirsty. But nobody has found the Wagner KGB type spies out to get our buddy.

* Maybe it's spelled Chechan ??

China ALWAYS has their eyes on the money, the reason they talk out of both sides of their mouths. You just can't trust them.

But you can USE them to accomplish an objective. Like de-escalate Putin. Then deal with the other issues later.

At least their leader is not insane (and we just got rid of one and Russia still has one) so in the real-life game of Risk, at this point, looks like they're winning! (because we may be headed into another spell with the mad king Donald... or his mini-me DeSantis or Cruz or some such)

I think it's safe to say it won't be Cruz, r403.

Yes, found something. It wasn't the Wagner Group that Ukrainians eliminated it was a Chechen terrorist group. Can't some western specialist troops come, seek them out, expose them and put them behind bars? I'm sure every western country has these specialist troops that are called when ordinary soldiers won't do.

regarding Wagner Group link

You can't use somebody you can't trust and who's very likely more in bed with the enemy than with you.

Sure you can R406. You just to do it right.

Putin is livid that all the bordering countries that used to be part of the Soviet Union have eagerly welcomed the capitalistic Western ideals and their economies are thriving. No one wants to hang out with the drab, morose Russians getting looted by kleptocrats resulting in an economy smaller than California.

Chen at R407 needs to improve her English skills.

Fuck off troll!

First of all, I am male R409 and not a troll. But you sure sound like one.

Second, I made a typo and forgot the word *have*. It should have read "you just have to do it right". I sincerely hope the DL community at large will excuse this egregious error.

Third, you really need to grow up.

If you look at the map at r344, that huge swathe of yellow in Asia is the proposed NATO-like alliance, including Russia and China that'll counter the West. It's a freaking sequel. The Cold War is back, baby!

r410, I hope you find a way to channel your rage.

Uh, what rage are you referring to? I am being quite calm and rational. You are the one screaming at people with exclamation points.

Poor kid, barely an adult

Handsome and brave Ukraine soldier.

I hope we can settle on one thread eventually.

Chelsea fans first to realise sanctions cut both ways.

Western media coverage continuing to project Western values on Ukraine just because they're white.

Is it possible for countries to send in anonymous volunteer armies? If Russia is blatantly disregarding all international rules of engagement and now openly targeting innocent Ukrainian citizens, then why can’t the West get some of that stick out of their ass and send in volunteers? Where is it written that this violates international laws since these volunteers would not represent any national force? I wonder if the Chinese and pro-Putin non-proven/tested volunteer combat forces put equal skin in the game? Put their lives where their wallet lives.

Just throwing this out there…

What's sad about this war is that it was so avoidable. Angela Merkel could've stopped this war. At least Putin respected her and could speak to her directly in German.

R420 Merkel is a big cause of this war. She kept letting Putin get away with everything. She made Germany dependent on Russian gas and woefully underfunded Germany's military as well.

Wait. So before Merkel Germany wasn't dependent on Russian gas and has military to rival Russia's?

R422 correct

R419, France won't send in their French Foreign Legion, which is pretty much that. They detained 2 Ukrainian enlistees because they wanted to return home to fight, and that could have been interpreted as France joining the war. EU does not want WWIII.

Now there is talk of sending in drones to bomb Russian artillery. It all seems equivalent to sending in Western forces, whether it is no-fly zones enforced by Air Force incursions or what have you. Can that stalled Russian tank convoy be manned by Ukrainian soldiers and be used to take out Russian artillery forces being used to bomb civilian targets?

Not to be Debbie Downer, but we should also remember that in WW2, countries like Poland and Greece fought back and held off the Germans for several weeks as well.

The difference--and it is a major one--is that Hitler had the enthusiastic support of the majority of the German people, while Putin's support seems quite limited.

R424. That's pretty pathetic. I could be convinced that NATO refusing to overtly assist is justifiable under the pretext of not provoking Putin. But stopping Ukrainians from returning home to fight seems ridiculous.

Why doesn't the world just bend over and let Putin have his way with us since we're so terrified of his nukes?

"China’s strategic partnership with Russia has the potential to be a lifeline for a Russian economy foundering under crippling Western sanctions, but Beijing appears to be holding back over practical constraints and fears of secondary sanctions on Chinese institutions.

As Russia’s largest trading partner and one of the few countries globally that has not condemned President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, China is coming under close scrutiny from the United States and its allies for its ability to undermine the Western economic coercion used to press Moscow into a cease-fire.

China’s businesses and banks, however, appear to be seeking to avoid being pulled into Moscow’s standoff with the West.

Without making public statements, some Chinese institutions appear to be quietly adhering to sanctions, and there are few signs of significant attempts to create a lifeline for the Russian economy. According to Bloomberg News, two of China’s biggest commercial banks, Bank of China and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC), in recent days restricted financing or purchases of Russian commodities."

Pure self interest but confirms the theory that the Chinese neither like or nor want Putin's disastrous misadventure and are already quietly allowing life to get much harder for him. China wants dominance and sees the path forward through the economy. That is what matters to them. Putin has disrupted that.

Good point. I don’t understand why these Russian conscripts and even Russian police forces have such a large contingent of men on a payroll if we have shut down their economy. No one would carry out such carnage and barbarity if they were not being compensated somehow, correct? Where are these MVD thugs putting the thousands of Russian citizens they are arresting? So many unknowns…

China loves stability. Their entire history is essentially trying to build and maintain a stable society. A destabilized world that Putin was working on may have served China's interests in the short-term but I'm not surprised this level of uncertainty is now unacceptable to the CCP.

China is merely deeply concerned over any backlash this Russian assault has on them. They are concerned only about the negative optics it may bring upon them. They couldn’t care less about any moral implications.

Four headlines from one of the UK broadsheets:

Two superyachts seized as Europe cracks down on oligarchs

'We were deceived and used like meat shields': Anger of the Russian soldiers duped into killing

The oligarchs are turning on Russia’s new tsar - It’s early days, but the level of dissent is striking given the risks of seeming to question Putin’s rule

Middle-class Russians banned from fleeing with their wealth as sanctions start to bite

He's fighting a lot of wars of a number of fronts and none promise to go well for him. Early days.

Agreed R430 and R431. I suspect that China was all in favor of the war Putin laid out, where the Ukrainians greeted them as liberators and hardly any shots were fired.

The current situation is a completely different story.

R431: so what? Self interest is usually a much more reliable motivator than principle. Is there a long term problem with China? Yes. Is there a short term solution to this foolhardy, murderous invasion by Putin? Seems there could be. I'll take it.

Except that the US/West is being bogged down in technicalities and are not acting in their self interest. Do you not see how this mentality cuts themselves off at the knees? Same with tugging over what our Constitution allows or disavows. Taken too an extreme, it becomes crippling and not freeing.

How are they being bogged down?

[quote]Sitting on the sidelines because Ukraine isn't in NATO is just hiding behind a technicality whilst innocent people die.

Bogged down=crippled by civil ‘agreements’, gentlemanly conduct, respect and fair rules of engagement to spare the lives of innocent civilians. Are you part Mongol? These little civilities that have allowed humans to exist. Why troglodytes went extinct. You may find yourself partial to these died-off species so why are you living amongst us. It’s because your ancestors were running away from everything with their tails between their legs.

Russian troops are balking

^ OK. Meds come around ten, don't they?

R421 is a fucking idiot trying to stir shit and spread lies.

R441 are you also R438?

R442 no. WTF?

WTC!

R443, I'm just going to block you and wanted to make sure I'm getting all the people who can't conduct a civil conversation. But of course in blocking you the other post would have disappeared or not depending it's all you. My oversight. Thanks for answering and bye.

Bye, R445.

I won't miss you.

Can blocked people read the blocker's posts?

Unless you're one of the normal users in here, of course.

For someone who won't miss me, you've a lot to say about it.

Putin is invading Europe. This is WW3. I cannot believe this is happening. Putin needs to STOP.

[quote]while Putin's support seems quite limited.

Not exactly true. His approval rating just before the war was 71% and I doubt it's fallen very far since. Educated urban Russians hate him, but most ordinary Russians around the country support him (although of course all they hear is state propaganda).

[quote] Not exactly true. His approval rating just before the war was 71% and I doubt it's fallen very far since. Educated urban Russians hate him, but most ordinary Russians around the country support him (although of course all they hear is state propaganda).

Doesn’t matter, really. The Bolsheviks were a tiny fraction of the population yet they were strategically located in St. Petersburg where political power was concentrated. Cut off the head and the rest will fall in line.

The Russians are now shelling Europe's biggest nuclear power plant. They really are morons.

Wow.

Children with cancer are trapped in Ukraine. They have to stop treatment and go to the bomb shelter area. The children are terrified because of air strikes and sirens. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

Mother with a child with cancer are being transferred to a hospital outside of Ukraine, but she cannot take her other children with her. OMG, they is WW3. It is so disgusting and soul crushing. What can we do to stop Putin?

Pray, Janie! Pray very hard!

WW3, I cannot believe this is happening.

I am so fucking tired of these 10 minute segments about children and how they are being affected by the invasion. Don't get me wrong. I love children. I have two sons I love more than my life. But this fixation on children is pure manipulation. CNN is the worst and Clarissa Ward is the worst of the worst.

Nick Paton Walsh did an excellent segment from Odessa tonight. The rest was Coop and Ward doing their "what about the children" whining.

Russians are against this war. Russian Elderly woman arrested brutaly by putin. She was peacefully protesting. against this war.

[quote]Russians are against this war. Russian Elderly woman arrested brutaly by putin. She was peacefully protesting. against this war.

A bit more than some generic older woman - one of the last survivors of the 1941 siege of Leningrad.

A survivor of the Great War telling you to go fuck yourself. There's some harsh optics for you.

R459, I find Anderson finds it very hard to separate himself from the line up. These days he's all about the babies be cause he's all about the babies. CNN babies and indulges their anchors insanely. It is sad but the story today is the resistance and the refugees. Human interest can wait for the weekend.

You can tell CNN is getting a little bored with this.

Let's face it. Ukraine will eventually fall. Is it wrong to wish the Russian army moves fast so we minimal loss of life?

Putin is bombing a nuclear reactor in Ukraine. This is a nightmare.

The Entire staff of the Russian TV channel “the rain” resigned during a live stream with last words: “no war” and then played “swan lake” ballet video (just like they did on all USSR tv channels when it suddenly collapsed).

Russians are against this war. This is putin's war.

459 Same. I want to hear the news, not see programs about kids trapped in a war zone. It’s just so depressing. I guess they don’t have much new information to report…not enough to fill the 24/7 news cycle anyway so these are essentially filler pieces.

R464 Yes, but unfortunately (from the loss of life viewpoint) even once Ukraine falls, their hatred of the Russians is flamed to such a fever pitch there will be violence for generations to come.

The map at r344 is funny because it’s a demarcation of US intervention except for Afghanistan - they voting in favour and still hate Russia more.

It's emotional manipulation, R459. The BBC has been going hard forcing Ukrainian kids in the UK to Facetime their grandparents in Ukraine. Disgusting. I switch off as soon as I see it.

R468 the historical thing about Ukraine is that it has always had and more importantly WANTED to have a distinct identity seperate from Russia. From 800AD during the Kievan Rus, and most certainly from 1200AD after its breakup. Ukraine has, on the majority, always looked west. In the Soviet era the Ukrainian language was banned. Russia sent Russian citizens in to live in Ukraine to dilute the National character.

My father went to Ukraine in the 1980s to meet family after attending a conference in Poland. He went down to the front desk of his hotel in Kyiv to ask about laundry service. The staff pretended not to understand him and he returned back to him room. Later that night the manager went up to his room to apologise, collect his laundry and to tell him they could not speak Ukrainian in public and that if he could not speak Russian (he couldn’t) to speak English or use sign language. That is one of MANY stories he has.

^ I don't buy all these Ukraine-good-Russia-bad stories. If we got stuck on history, didn't the Ukrainians side with the Nazis as Hitler invaded Russia?

If it's about language, Crimea is Russian-speaking so there's that.

Hey, wasn't the United States one of the last slave owning nations on earth?

See how it works, R472?

This from an anti-Putin article:

[quote]Finally, during the Second World War, German soldiers murdered 1.5 million Jews in the areas that are now Ukraine, often with the collaboration of Ukrainian militias established in the diaspora and with the help of local auxiliary police. The role of ethnic Ukrainians in the Holocaust remains contentious in Ukraine today, where nationalist heroes who collaborated with the Nazis continue to be honored.

Ukrainians also supported the Germans in the siege of of Lenningrad

The President of Ukraine is Jewish. Zelensky's relatives died in the Holocaust. Zelensky is an amazing world leader.

To the degree that a number of Ukrainians collaborated with the Germans, they had just endured the intentional murder of millions of their countrymen by Stalin. If the Russians invaded Germany, would you contend they were Nazis 80 years ago?

The President of Ukraine is Jewish. Zelensky's relatives died in the Holocaust. Zelensky is an amazing world leader.

Let me try that again.

What part of I DON'T CARE HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE TO GET WHAT I WANT DON'T YOU GET? - Putin

there is a war from a deranged madman (putin) and the Ukrainian people are evacuating with their animals. I really LOVE these people. They are very nice people. I cannot believe this war is happening.

It's sad, not much more we can do. Putin will level that entire country, scare most of them away or kill them. Claim victory, install a puppet government. But they will fight back making it a bloody war lasting years the Russians will regret. This will eventually be too much stress on the Russian economy and the country will collapses once again like it did after the cold war. Someone in Putin's inner circle will take him out, that's how it always happens. Oligarch don't like being poor.

Wasn't Joseph Stalin Georgian?

[quote] they had just endured the intentional murder of millions of their countrymen by Stalin.

So, as you naturally would, they responded by exterminating the Jewish population in Ukraine.

[quote] I don't buy all these Ukraine-good-Russia-bad stories. If we got stuck on history, didn't the Ukrainians side with the Nazis as Hitler invaded Russia?

Blocked, Svetalana.

[quote] If it's about language, Crimea is Russian-speaking so there's that

Because Russia imported Russian families to the naval bases.

He's attacking Kyiv and everywhere else so no, it is not about language.

[quote]I don't buy all these Ukraine-good-Russia-bad stories. If we got stuck on history, didn't the Ukrainians side with the Nazis as Hitler invaded Russia?

Yes, and the Soviets maintained a non-aggression pact with the Nazis for almost two years as Hitler invaded Poland and France and bombed the U.K....

what the hell is with the whataboutism here? What happened 83 years ago doesn't mean jackshit about who is good/bad - today it is clear that the Russians are the bad guys in invading a sovereign country, killing thousands of people, and razing cities down to the ground.

True R459! Then I switched to MSNBC and the Maddow fill-in looked way too excited about what was happening in Ukraine (with borderline smiling, WTF)? Opposite extremes. I turned off the news, had a glass of wine and took a nap. Now back to DL for latest updates.

[QUOTE] Ukrainians being white, blonde and blue-eyed is a major driver concerning the response.

This isn't true. Most have dark hair and dark eyes. Ukraine isn't northern Europe.

No one the invasion is about language, Natasha. We are using language an example of how Ukrainian identity is historically subjugated by Russia and how in many ways Ukraine has viewed it self as independent of Russia for centuries.

A Great Firewall like China's is coming to Russia - their censor Roskomnadzor is starting to roll out blocking of Apple, Google app stores, Facebook, Twitter, and a variety of foreign media sites.

Very interesting that people don't want to buy Russian oil even at a big discount:

"NO BUYERS: Russian flagship Urals crude plunges to a fresh record large discount of **minus $22.7-a-barrel** to benchmark Dated Brent. Even at such a huge discount, oil trader Trafigura found no bidders"

Military expert: "We've had sporadic use of airpower early on, but today could be a turning point for Russian tactical aviation increasingly being called in to conduct air strikes in Ukraine. As Russian forces grow frustrated, we're going to see more airpower in the coming days."

The US Foreign Product Rule is starting to bite - the maker of Russian Ladas has shut down their automotive production line due to not being able to procure semiconductors. Next will be defense and space production..

Putin's War fresh drone video

[quote] This isn't true. Most have dark hair and dark eyes. Ukraine isn't northern Europe.

Indeed, it’s a mix of blonde and brunette with majority darker hair, like like Britain.

People spouting the blonde hair and blue eyes rhetoric are Russian and middle eastern trolls.

They are pushing the racism angle hard. It's ironic because Russia is probably even more racist.

[quote]Yes, and the Soviets maintained a non-aggression pact with the Nazis for almost two years as Hitler invaded Poland and France and bombed the U.K....

Then the Nazis invaded Russia (with Ukrainian help), leading to Russia absorbing the biggest shocks then turning around to win the war for the allies.

^probably? Not a damn doubt.

The Russian invaders have captured Zaporizhzhia NPP, the largest nuclear power station in Europe. They did so because they want to cut the electricity power in eastern & central Ukraine.

The Russian invaders are now broadcasting Russian TV channels in Ukraine. Obviously to try to brainwash them with propaganda. Man, it's fucked. Things seem to be getting worse and worse.

Here is an interesting interaction today in Nikolaev between Ukrainian civilians and Ukrainian resistance/army. Women are asking them why they are setting themselves up so close to residential areas when they can set up the blockade further away. Is it to make sure Russian shelling hit the house??? Women are begging them go away. They just want peace and don't want to die.

Looks like the Wagner Group couldn't get Zelenskyy

The Times: Volodymyr Zelensky survives 3 assassination attempts in days. Two different groups have been sent to kill him, yet both have been thwarted by anti-war elements within Russia’s Federal Security Service, according to the Times' sources.

A source close to the Wagner mercenary group told the Times it was “eerie” how well briefed Zelensky’s security team appeared to be.

source: Kyiv Independent

R505, LOL Ukrainian propaganda is just relentless. If anyone this year should get every Academy Award this year is Mr Zelenskyy and his team.

There’s always Al-Jezeera live news if BBC screws up. From what little I watched, AJ is partial to Ukraine and is reporting the conflict as an unprovoked invasion by Russia. Only RT (Russian TV) is on live siding with Russia and its de-Nazification fiction.

[quote]I don't buy all these Ukraine-good-Russia-bad stories.

You don't have to, but you do have to acknowledge the reality that Russian invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.

Man, those woman are strong and brave. Can you imagine if Americans lived there? Kim Kardashian types? They put American bravery to shame.

[quote] Ukrainian propaganda is just relentless.

Maybe so, but not as relentless as the well establish Russian Trolls that have been here since they helped put Trump into office. When this invasion backfires on you cant even afford a bowl of borscht, remember you brought it upon yourselves. You could have stopped Putin when you had the chance. Who knows, once Russia collapses and your Ruble is worth 1 penny to the US dollar, maybe some kind Ukrainians will move back and buy up all you land. Give you jobs cleaning their toilets.

FYI, the tweet r504 tweeted is not in Ukrainian, but in Russian. 👀

r511, it's verified Nikolaev and that's the Russian speaking part of Ukraine. So are Kharkiv, Mariupol, Odessa etc.

R512 It's pure Russian propaganda.

tweets are not real news

R514 plenty of journalists are on twitter. I look to see if they have a blue tick and if they work for reputable organisations.

[quote]Wasn't Joseph Stalin Georgian?

To look at his history, I'd say more Texan but as likely Floridian.

R510, the ruble is already worth less than a penny to a dollar. One ruble equals .0084 dollars, about 8/10s of a penny.

R517. I wonder how much it will be worth once they start printing even more money.

Rumors floating around on military Twitter that Putin's war machine collapse by Sunday 3/6.

Just rumors at this point. Still.

extrapolate...

R519 I want to believe.

drunk, angry vets or folks with brains left.

[quote] military Twitter that Putin's war machine collapse by Sunday 3/6.

I don't see how Russia's air power can collapse, but one can hope...

Rumors

R525. True, but those rumors are consistent with Russia's progress in this war.

There is hope

After our misadventures in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't think America has standing in this affair.

But I still remember Boris Johnson recently saying the UK would provide support: "eventually militarily" - and that would bring us in without having to carry the moral baggage. The former and current Commonwealth as well. That would do it. Your move, Boris Churchill.

^I do not believe the US misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan (however disastrous) were done on a stand-alone basis as Russia is doing here...

God has given the work all this extra time to take action. This is a the best chance there is to stop this in its tracks.

Military expert Michael Kofman thinks the Russians have 3 more weeks before they're spent/exhausted but there may then be a ceasefire and that doesn't mean the end of the war necessarily because ceasefires are often used for both sides to just restock before starting to fight again. Important to keep the economic sanctions in place to help deter this.

We don’t have 3 weeks. If we don’t take action we will regret it forever. It will be a dark stain on the world’s democracies.

They will fascists will beat us with it and never let us live it down.

R530 Why doesn't God save all the dying babies (and young fighters) then? Is this just a sadistic game he likes to play, using Putin like a d&d villain or something?

One way to get money into the hands of Ukrainians immediately is to buy digital downloads from Ukrainian artists on Etsy.com

I just bought a beautiful watercolor landscape (digital file) from a Ukrainian artist and 2 sweet drawings from a little girl who has fled Kyiv with her mother.

Etsy has lots of choices of art available. The kids' artwork will tug at your heart. There are groups of school kids who are creating art.

Before you all scream, I know this link is from a Russian news channel, but it's the most coherent explanation I've heard about how we got here - straight from Putin's mouth.

I don't think this is going to end well - for any of us. He sees this almost like it's an existential threat as well as righting historical wrongs.

of course he does, but it doesn't mean he's justified in his actions. Hitler felt the german people were "stabbed in the back" and caused unprecedented harm because of it

Not sure it's similar circumstances R536, but I take your point.

He has a point, r535.

[quote]Before you all scream, I know this link is from a Russian news channel, but it's the most coherent explanation I've heard about how we got here - straight from Putin's mouth.

Another example of the 'perpetual victimhood' justification that Russians have cultivated through centuries.

If NATO was such a threat to him, he wouldn't wage war literally at its doorstep where the risk of a missile hitting, say, Polish soil increases exponentially.

R535, he’s just using any argument he can to suppress dissent. Ukrainians weren’t committing genocide of Russians.

Absolutely R539. Give it no credence. Grievance is the perpetual language of narcissists like Putin and Hitler. They feel powerless so they overreact to any perceived slight.

Narcissists like Putin are a different breed than other people. They will win at all costs or everyone dies. He is a killer.

i think he is a sadistic sociopath. There is no reason for him to attack ukraine. These Putin is a fucking psycho.

R535's link must be RT--"video not available in your country."

To add to the other comments on what might be in it: if there's no difference between Russians and Ukrainians, why is he destroying their homes/infrastructure and killing them?

Because they're in his way. Russians who get in his way are poisoned, thrown out of windows, or imprisoned. The latter fate awaits the brave souls protesting their 'President's' aggression. Putin humiliates his own staff live on TV. He's all about absolute power. Any would-be justification is transparent bullshit, adding insult to murderous injury.

China be like "we don't know her, she just live in house next door".

The removal of financial services like SWIFT, Visa and Mastercard has the potential of backfiring on them in the long term. Apparently, Russia and China have been working independently of each other to develop their own systems in the last decade. Analysts are projecting the Russians will strengthen their systems, out of necessity and returning after sanctions are lifted may prove challenging for some of these companies.

Who cares, Russia is not that big of a county in terms of people, only in land size does it look big. I think Master Card and Visa will be happy with all of the US and Europe and the rest of the world.

The question remains: Who will China side with? Russia with a demolished economy and a universally hated rogue leader OR a financially solid and re-invigorated US/European union? That’s all one needs to ask? Russia has the potential of being an albatross around China’s neck and for what in return? It will have a broken economy. China is pragmatic and most of their leaders think about the long-term implications, unlike the US.

One can bet that the US/West will spend the next few years working hard not to rely on autocratic countries i.e. China. The writing is on the wall. If the West has decided and jointly work it’s way away from reliance on China, then China will be forced to align with their other autocratic, isolated country that is Russia.

China is not going to give up it's biggest customer, the United States and the EU for Russian trash white a Ruble worth less than one American penny. Seriously, do the math. China is all about money at the end of the day and Russia will go bankrupt trying to turn Ukraine into more property. They might win Ukraine but lose China in the process.

Plus America is not going to stop buying from China any time soon. Every fucking iPhone is made in China. Most of the cars, all of the TVs, almost all electronics are made there. America is not even close to making all that stuff at home. Plus, no one in America is going to work for 35 cents an hour.

Well, let’s hope so. But then why is Russia buying Russian wheat? Why are they working on an alternative of SWIFT? These substantiated actions wouldn’t leave one to believe Chana will go west.

Sorry…Why is China buying Russian wheat?

[Ever wonder why autocorrect does not work in obvious misspells like Chana to China, but will fuck up comonnly used words? Right there. Fucking thing should automatically correct comonnly to commonly. Fucking useless tech that’s worth absolute shit!]

[LOL..learn to proofread.]

I do proofread! It’s just that when I type a word, autocorrect will change it to something else. I’m hoping it will simply function to correct misspells, not substitute my words and wordings to something else. It does seem to substitute one word (correctly spelled) to some other word quite randomly. Then I have to override the autocorrect word. Go figure.

the nuclear threat is just too strong right now

It's a fucking message board R556

Do not let the Ancient Aspies typo-shame you.

China is thinking more about the Uygurs, Tibet, Taiwan and they wouldn’t mind a powerless Russia on their border.

R547. Russia and China aren't going to be developing an alternative to international credit card companies or SWIFT any time soon. China still heavily relies in SWIFT.

They'd also have to get the rest of the world to trust these alternatives - not likely.

The West should NOT trust China as long as that Chinese Hitler, Xi Jingping is its lifetime President. Imagine, he was elected President than declared himself President for life!

That was Trumps plan r561. He almost pulled it off.

[quote]The West should NOT trust China...

The Covid thing should help with that.

[quote]That was Trumps plan...

Still is, in his sub-Putin pinprick of a brain.

^I don't think Trump is really going to run for Prez again. Just recently he was bitching about the Congressional committee that is investigating the 1/6 riot, and he complained that its work is inhibiting him from running for President again, "if I decide to." That qualification struck me as a dead giveaway that he does not intend to actually do it, and that his strategy is just to soak his followers for all the $$$ he can get out of them until the time comes to start campaigning and then make up some reason not to go forward with it. He's certainly crafty enough to know that the odds of him losing in a landslide are very, very high. I think maybe he knows he's too old and fat to put up with the strain. I hope so, anyhow.

^^ Don’t want to derail this thread but…. IMO, Trump holds two diverging opinions simultaneously. He intends to run *and* he doesn’t intend to run. He switches back and forth depending on the audience and whichever one he says, he fully believes it when he says it. If you confront him to say he said the opposite thing yesterday, he will shout you down.

Same with his followers, you can point out the illogic but they are incapable of seeing it.

Agree 100% R565, on both points.

While Putin relaxes in his billion-dollar mansion, with a 3000-soldier unit whose sole purpose is protecting him:

Pictures show how terminally ill children in Russia were encouraged to stand in the snow in the shape of a letter "Z" to show support for the country's invasion of Ukraine:

That youtube won’t load

It's on youtube but it's just a still photograph and a link to the story on their news site.