Both Bea and Rue called Betty a cunt!

Off topic a bit but I think Ethel Merman would have been fabulous on The Golden Girls 👧.

It was jealousy and the fact Bea and Rue were old bitter bitches similar to their characters.

Um Idk about Bea but I always thought Betty and Rue got along splendidly. I am sure they did, and things were slightly out of context.

Betty and Rue like each and other and got along well.

But it's like any work environment, small tensions come up over the years.

Betty was always on - entertaining the studio audience - as well as performing for the taped show. I wouldn't interpret her jokes as being intentionally unkind to Estelle, she was probably trying to ease the tension.

All the performers and crew became frustrated with Estelle's inability to deliver her lines at times during the run of the show, especially before they understood it was related to the onset of dementia.

Watch Bea's interviews with the Academy Archives on YouTube - she says Estelle had a lot of trouble with her lines. At one point, Bea looks at the camera and says, "You know I love you, Estelle, but it was difficult at times."

Betty was far too sweet to be wholesome. I prefer Estelle and Bea's more honest sensibility.

I love Betty and all these gossipy stories after her and Bea's death are tacky, but I've heard from other sources that Betty was more like Sue Ann Nivens in real life then any of her characters. Which makes me like her even more

And I shat in her fucking wig.

Betty always did come off as nice to audiences, and a backstabber to people she called friends confused why people don't like her

I left her a huge one with a triple swirl at the caboose end of it.

Rue and Betty were good friends. When Rue moved back to NY they still called each other every other week.

[quote]Betty always did come off as nice to audiences, and a backstabber to people she called friends confused why people don't like her

???

The DL gasp that shocked the world! Who fucking cares??? Yes, I took 10 seconds to come read the post...move on gals, Betty White is dead.

Bea Arthur always came off as a very cold, closeted lesbian, with a stick up her ass.

So I'm on Betty's side with this one. No one ever had a bad thing to say about her.

I don't think the same thing could be said about the masculine, Bea Arthur.

[quote]Bea Arthur always came off as a very cold, closeted lesbian, with a stick up her ass.

I always thought so, too. Until I sat next to her one evening in the lobby of a nice hotel. We had all just seen a play and she was holding court with three gay men. She was very relaxed, chatty, and funny. And she was perfectly willing to listen while one of the guys had the spotlight in conversation. She seemed very easy to be around.

(The last time I posted about that evening, so deranged DLer angrily accused me of making the whole thing up. Ugh, the Internet . . .)

Regardless of any animosity, they all loved and respected each other in the end. Some of my loved ones irritate me sometimes. So what..

Thanks R14, It's nice to hear about that side of her.

I recall reading the Betty White and Bea Arthur live somewhat near each other, and that Betty drove Bea back and forth to the studio every day. It makes you wonder how much they disliked each other.

Watching Bea Arthur on talk shows, she comes across as a deeply sensitive and surprisingly shy woman who takes what she does very seriously and who needs to feel “safe” in order to open up (you watch her on Graham Norton or Rosie O’Donnell and it’s clear that she trusts and adores them even if the talk show format freaks her out).

Betty White is the exact opposite. Unflappably breezy and completely in her element doing bits and jockeying for laughs with the host. That being said, there’s a sort of inscrutable quality to her - she can be sunny and sly and irreverent, but I never feel like she was giving anything away about herself that she doesn’t intend to.

Betty always struck me as being more like Sue Ann Nivens in real life and Bea actually strikes me as being a lot like Dorothy in terms of insecurities and life disappointments.

I was at a fundraiser she hosted for the LA Zoo about 20 years ago and watched her interact with everyone. I tell you, when the cameras weren’t on her and that smile shut, off she did seem pretty cunty. I still love her though.

I called them all cunts.

R18 isn’t that funny? For someone so out there and ubiquitous we know absolutely nothing about her. Talk about managing your image expertly.

But no, I don’t think she was a closeted lesbian.

Bea Arthur calling Betty White a cunt is pretty much fact: numerous people have confirmed it over the years. However, I don't believe Rue ever called Betty a cunt (only when she recounted the story of Bea calling Betty a cunt) since she and Betty got along well. There is footage on Rue's old facebook page of Rue talking to Betty on the phone before she went in for heart surgery. Also the last movie Rue ever saw in theaters was The Proposal according to her long-time assistant. Rue spoke fondly of Betty in her book.

You would think they would have used any excuse to get Estelle Getty and her character off the show. Their patience was surprising.

Betty, Rue, and Estelle seemed to be on good terms long after the show ended. Until Estelle became too ill, the three made numerous appearances together on various shows and reunion panels. Bea never appeared with the others other than one DVD signing and one panel. Here's the video R23 refers to. At the 4 minute mark, Betty White calls Rue just before Rue is about to go in for heart surgery.

While she’s iconic and fabulous, who among us believe Bea Arthur was anything other than a harsh curmudgeon? She surely had a big heart and loved those close to her, but it’s not hard to imagine her being a tough, acerbic broad to just about everyone else.

I always felt she might be like the Catherine Piper character she played on Boston Legal.

I know someone who was very close to Bea and he said Bea absolutely could not stand Betty and would go off about her randomly. She definitely hated her.

Bea was also an alcoholic and fell off the wagon multiple times. Even Joan Rivers talked about it and Miss Coco Peru, who was a close friend. Bea walked around the neighborhood without shoes on. In fact, it was a rare occurrence to ever see her not barefoot.

But was it a banter "cunt" like "she's a good cunt" or was it like "I hate the fucking cunt" because tone is important.

I’ve been called a cunt here on DataLounge many, many times but I know it was meant with love.

It's a badge of honor, R31. Wear it in pride!

Betty was a highly closeted lesbian married to the infamous Sunset Blvd trolling queen Allen Ludden.

Perhaps Bea couldn't stand the sickly sweet public persona Betty created for herself which was nothing like Betty's highly driven, ambitious real self.

Betty's a lesbian I mean for sure for sure.

R29 I love her and she was the most talented of the bunch but she sounds terribly unpleasant. I can’t stand people who are working on sitcoms who try to make it like they’re performing Shakespeare. I appreciate Betty for not being self important in that respect - and also being “one of the guys” and knowing how to dish it as well as she could take it.

Bea had a lot of problems. If you read Jim Colucci’s Golden Girls book, everyone is quoted as saying the other three ladies had to constantly apologize for Bea’s behavior. Bea had one actress fired for chewing gum. What was with her lying about serving in the military?

[quote]No one ever had a bad thing to say about her.

The existence of this thread proves that this claim isn't true, r13.

It's like Kindergarten around here with the constant "she's a lesbian and looks like a man" about ANY woman someone doesn't like.

This whole thread is full of people so emotionally attached to the idea that Betty White was a perfect and lovely lady that everyone is ignoring that she would make fun of Estelle's dementia in front of the live audience. And don't tell me it was a different time, clearly cast and crew knew it was wrong.

I know the truth

When you are around people so much they get on your fucking nerves. Betty was nice but could also be fake.

R18: "...she can be sunny and sly and irreverent, but I never feel like she was giving anything away about herself that she doesn’t intend to."

EXACTLY. Betty White wasn't a saint. And perhaps that's why Bea wouldn't put up with her 'sunny all the time' crap.

I believe Thurm. He was there.

What R37 said.

[quote]Off topic a bit but I think Ethel Merman would have been fabulous on The Golden Girls

I don't think she would have brought much to the show, having died a couple of years before it went on the air.

R13 Did you even read the story? How can you say no one ever had a negative thing to say about Betty when the story is about Bea and Rue calling Betting a fucking cunt?! LOL So there, we have at least 2 people who had something negative to say about Betty.

How was Bea the most talented? She always played herself. Betty’s character on the Mary Tyler Moire show is completely unlike her character ion the Golden Girls.

I interviewed Bea Arthur when she was doing her one-woman show. I was in a horrible accident the day the interview aired. Couldn’t walk for months. Somehow word got back to her. The newspaper got word to her. A framed, autographed copy of the piece arrived shortly afterward. Later I got a card asking how I was. Very kind.

I also briefly worked w Betty White, who was very warm. Could not have been warmer or more professional.

I am, however, sure that cunt is the tip of the iceberg. Performing is competitive and bitchy at times. It is a microcosm of Datalounge. You cunts know what I mean.

Datalounge is filled to the hilt with big fat cunts, I include myself in the number. Everyone has their moment and time to be a cunt, I'm sure the G girls were no different, we are all only human.

Betty White outlived them all. 'Nuff said.

There's also the contrary evidence of Rue, on her Academy interview, talking about how Bea always wanting to go to lunch with BETTY. And, there's that clip from a rehearsal on set where they're looking at the calendar of "Blanche's Men" and the props people put in funny photos of male crew in it and the 4 actresses are cracking up and Betty and Bea are setting side by side with Bea laughing so hard she's throwing herself onto Betty's lap being very close and chummy with her. People who hate each other don't generally get very physcical with each other....you keep a distance.

I think the REAL story is, Bea was very, very introverted and very neurotic and really very shy and Betty was just the opposite and sometimes this might have caused friction but all indications really seem to be, that it was a pretty happy set and everyone got along, at least to each other's faces.

I think eventually it's gonna come out that Betty White wasn't QUITE the adorable Sweetheart that her public AND her publicity made her out to be.

I like Betty White but I think in real life, she was probably more like Sue Ann Nivens and Ellen Harper than Rose Nylund. When you watch outtakes and bloopers from her career, Betty was really pretty obnoxious playing up to the audience and hamming it up. I think that kind of thing gets VERY old after awhile and it annoyed Bea (and probably Rue, too, because Rue McClanahan was a VERY serious actress) and they may have vented about Betty's need to mug and ham it up and always play up to the audience.

well besides the fact that celebrities are regular people with huge expectations put on them from total strangers about how they should behave - if you look at what was said about Bea - she was clearly difficult to get along with and many people did not like her, this is not true of Betty - so who do you believe? maybe their personalities just didn't go together, like many other co-workers. I am very easy to get on with, friendly, and generally well liked wherever I have worked. I can honestly say I really like and even adore so many of my coworkers sans one.....and she is actually very nice and very much liked by everyone around her - I confided this in one of my co-worker friends and she can't understand how I could dislike this lady - she just rubs me the wrong way, that's it. If they ever re-org and she reports to me, job one I would fire her.

It's not shocking. I loved the ol gal, but no doubt she was a huge pain in the ass to work with on that show.

One of the key writers for GG talks about Bea's personality, and why she was her favorite one to write for - interesting.

R51. Interestingly, both of the anecdotes she tells about Bea center on Bea’s conviction that everyone should be awed by her fame.

Nana could only invite Betty alone or Bea and Rue, but never the three to the same cul-de-sac party.

Speaking of Jim Colucci, R36, I met him once and he was one of the most insufferable pieces of shit I’ve ever experienced.

Funny, I’ve seen the name Winifred Hervey’s name a thousand times in the credits and that is NOT how I ever would have pictured her.

We need A Max/Mary appearance in every thread!

Periodic reminder that Bea Arthur left half a million dollars in her will to build the Forney homeless shelter for lgb young people in NYC.

Old bitches bitchin. They are us.

Betty a cunt?

That's why we love her.

I wish Lucille Ball had played the part of Sophia. It would have been the capstone of her career. She had so much more appeal than Estelle Getty, in my opinion.

Lucille Ball would never have been part of a sitcom ensemble. Not after being the star of four self-titled sitcoms (three if you assume she would have done GG instead of Life with Lucy). She would have seen it as beneath her.

Thus it would have given her the perfect perspective to play the embittered old grouch Sophia.

Almost anyone would have been better than Estelle Getty.

[quote]Almost anyone would have been better than Estelle Getty.

Maybe, but for me the biggest problem with Sophia was the way she was written. Her character wasn't even human, really. She was just a one-liner machine, cranking out gags I could never imagine an elderly woman with some sort of stroke damage saying in real life.

They is true. Betty’s character was also written as a cliche, which is why she was less memorable than on the MTM show.

R37... Chill out! I did apologize

R64- This show was not a documentary about four older women living together it was a SITCOM.

But characters in a sitcom are supposed to be funny

Bea and Betty were basically opposites that creates tension. Bea was a low key pessimist with a drinking problem and Betty was a high-energy optimist workaholic with no life outside of work and animals.

R69- Betty had no life outside of work , animals and PUSSY FLAPS.

r54 bDetails, please.

[quote]This show was not a documentary about four older women living together it was a SITCOM.

So it's okay for a sitcom to be filled with two-dimensional cardboard characters whose dialogue and behavior are totally predictable in every single episode? We get it, we get it. Blanche is a slut and Rose is stupid. How many times are you going to hit us over the head with it?

R72- In spite of all the gay worship of The Golden Girls the writing on the show rarely any thing other than AVERAGE.

Although even I have to admit the Barbara Thorndike episode was really funny

God, I am SO gay.

R29 Can you please tell us what the divine Miss Coco Peru said about Bea?

R63 Estelle was the best part of the GG. I adored her as Sophia. She was the funniest one by far.

Well,the show is stlll on constantly,still popular and the ladies are still talked about a lot . Id say they won.

Golden Girls was number one on the Neilson Streaming Charts in January and apparently the show continues to rank in the top 10 most months. That's insane for a show that has been off the air for 30 years.

R78 That goes to show you how the writers of Golden Girls made the show timeless and relevant. A few things (outfits, decor, some jokes) are outdated, but the topics they tackled were pretty bold for their day. They were also very accepting of LGB people on the show long before the rest of Hollywood could catch up (certainly they struggled with it in those episodes, but ended taking a very accepting stance).

Condoms! Condoms! Condoms!

R75 Video at the link. She speaks highly of Bea. It's funny.

[quote]Betty was a high-energy optimist workaholic with no life outside of work and animals.

When she was married to Allan Ludden, they were very much a part of the Hollywood social scene. They always seemed to be photographed at industry get-togethers and dinners with veteran actors. Their best friends were Mary Tyler Moore and Grant Tinker and they used to vacation all the time. I do think after Allen died, she threw herself completely into her work as a way to deal with her grief.

But it was no different with Bea. When she was married to Gene Saks, they were a big couple in the New York theater scene. After a bitter divorce and by the time of Golden Girls, she was a lot more low key. She seemed to just want to do her job and get home.

GG is an iconic show because it had a simple but great premise; a sublime cast who had terrific chemistry with each other and a writing team who were top notch at creating hilarious lines and moments and bits week after week.

Where the show was weak was in its overall plotting of episodes. They over relied on "girls bicker over stupid shit" and guest stars who were usually visiting relatives. It's interesting how we always talk about hilarious GG lines and moments but it's seldom whole EPISODES that we talk about.

In your dreams, cunt at r31.

The person who wrote that Bea hated Betty and would talk about her randomly... that's often a sign of suppressed lust. It's like men or women who constantly bash gays are often suppressing homosexual desires. Hate is close to love. Why was Bea obsessed with Betty so much? I bet they had a fling after their mothers died. They became very close and insiders said they would constantly hold hands. I imagine one night, Betty was at Bea's house or vice versa and they had a little bit too much to drink and ended up in bed together. Then either Bea or Betty didn't want to continue the relationship because it would ruin their careers and get them fired from GG.

Unfortunately Bea was sexually assaulted by her superior officer while serving as a Marine in WW 2. As a result, she contracted an STD and SHE was punished for it! Nothing happened to the officer who raped her. As a result, she was left infertile. I can totally understand why she seemed to be so brittle and bitter. Bea, Florence Ballard, Barbara Stanwyck, all victims of rape, all considered to be “cold” and not friendly…

I think Rufus Wainwright went to that Coco Peru interview with Bea Arthur. He was living in LA, away from his native Canada for the first time. Watching "The Golden Girls" cheered him. He told Bea that she felt like his grandmother. Be replied: "I'm not your fucking grandmother."

Charlie's Angels was a much better show.

*Bea replied

"I was never in the Marines."