Robert Wagner's Selective Memoir-ies

Wow 92.

He was sexy when he was young and before the (alleged) issues with Natalie.

Wagner is a character in a new collection of short stories called “Better Davis and Other Stories.” The story in which he appears takes place the night of Natalie’s “drowning” and is told from her point of view.

Needless to say, Wagner does not come off well.

Baggy-eyed memories.

So, he had an affair an affair with Paul Newman and murdered his wife?

Seriously, it's the one thing my mum and aunt always said; he murdered Natalie.

[quote] Wagner does not come off well.

He never did.

Anyone believe RJ actually had an affair with Barbara Stanwyck?

What a pretty man.

Anyone remember a film called "The Mountain". Unbelievably the juvenile looking Wagner was cast as the BROTHER of ancient-looking Spencer Tracy.

"I'll never forget the time I fucked Jeffery Hunter in the swimming pool..."

RJ was in the Clifton Webb Titanic movie.

RJ lived with Clifton Webb

[quote] "What a pretty man."

Especially when he was twenty-nine, in 1959.

I think he was straight but did what he needed to do to get ahead.

I’ve always suspected that he ignored Natalie’s cries for help, thinking they were just some additional hysterics from a dramatic evening. They were all wasted out of their minds. It was an accident and he’s only guilty of not realizing she was in true distress.

Every time I’ve heard the story it’s made me incredibly sad. From everything I’ve read, they were kind people who happened to have a bad night that ended in tragedy.

"I think he was straight but did what he needed to do to get ahead. "

Yeah, I'll do just about anything to get some head

His first manager was Henry Willson. Nuff said.

No kidding. An old timer who worked at the downtown Indian Casino Spa in Palm Springs caught him nailing Laurence Harvey to the cross. So not straight, Rose.

R10 love Jeffrey Hunter. So handsome, so enigmatic. Wonder what the deal with him was, he was such good friends with roger moore that moore named his son in his honor. Appeared in these publicity shots spending time with rock Hudson. Wonder how close they were. They would have made a hot couple.

I watched "The Mountain" thinking Spencer Tracy was playing RJ's father. Then I realized they were supposed to be brothers... despite a 30 year age difference. Kind of like Sam Elliot and Bradley Cooper in "A Star is Born." What's also surprising is that Spencer was 55 when he made the movie and looks at least 70!

Abused and Murdered her. He was a self loathing bisexual. Now he is just an old murderer who never got in trouble. Natalie was raped by Kirk Douglas , sold to Hollywood by her overbearing mother and then beaten up by her husband who eventually let her die in the water.

This is my boss, Jonathan Hart.

As RJ got older, he got queenier in person, as more acquaintances have observed.

R4..

R10. Oh the idea of Robert Wagner and Jeffrey Hunter fucking is just too good to be true. Hunter, Robert Conrad, Lex Barker, Clint Walker and Ty Harden are my 'go tos' when I need an 'Old Hollywood' jackoff memory.

He drowned the bitch, and we all know it

Whenever someone mentions Robert Conrad on DL, in my mind I get him mixed up with William Conrad, every time. lol

It's too bad he couldn't act, but after a while (when sometimes Fox tried to put him in drama) someone figured out he could be somewhat funny and smooth (as in, The Pink Panther, and Harper) and then he had a TV career playing somewhat funny, smooth detectives.

My late sister was friends with him. She once got him to call my father to extend birthday greetings.

I vaguely remember reading a story that as a kid, he lived in Bel-Air close to a golf course frequented by big Hollywood stars.

One morning Wagner saw a foursome that consisted of Fred Astaire, Clark Gable, Randolph Scott, and Cary Grant.

Wagner and Pearl Bailey pair up in the camp classic, "All the Fine Young Cannibals." Pearlie Mae's vocalizing is a blessing here!

[quote]One morning Wagner saw a foursome that consisted of Fred Astaire, Clark Gable, Randolph Scott, and Cary Grant.

Um...

You know RJ went up in the man

[Quote]I vaguely remember reading a story that as a kid, he lived in Bel-Air close to

This is when he lived with Clifton Webb who was helping him with his career. Wagner says this with a straight face.

Helping him get up inside his career!

I don't think young, good-looking Hollywood up-and-comers had any problem using elder Gay men like Clifton Webb to get ahead and I doubt Clifton Webb had any problem being "used" by someone like RJ. Hollywood is very transactional

Webb was sitting pretty with Wagner as his charge.

Spencer Tracy & Wagner The Mountain.

We make a big deal about who is or isn't Gay on DL, but it seems to me the best way to get a career in Hollywood is to be young, good-looking with no sexual hang-ups and have the ability to keep a secret

[quote] So handsome, so enigmatic

'Enigmatic' is a nice way to say he was empty-headed.

He was funny while fooling the panel on What's My Line." (Starts at 18:55)

Wagner lived in Bel Air with his parents.

Read his book. He lived with Webb.

I never thought Wagner was attractive until a few weeks ago when I saw the Jesse James film he did inn the late the late 50s. He'd lost the baby fat and added some light facial hair. Hot as Hell. After that he shaved and added a few pounds back. Meh.

He was smoking hot in Kiss Before Dying (1956).

r42 I have read his books. He said his father was an exec and they moved to Bel Air in his teens.

He may have moved in with Webb after Maybelle died. However, Webb lived in Beverly Hills.

Titanic (1953), Webb, Stanwyck, Wagner; he had a 4-year affair with her which started during the filming of this movie. He was 22, she was 46 or 48. Both of them acknowledged the affair in later years. She broke it off.

As to the film itself, Webb IMO turned in the most moving performance, and of course Stanwyck playing an adulteress (a one-night stand) was made to suffer and cringe and weep and lose her darling bastard son.

R46, Stanwyck DID NOT acknowledged any "affair" in later years. That's complete bullshit. Did Wagner write that or you made it up?

When Barbara Stanwyck went to receive her award for The Thorn Birds, co-presenter Robert Wagner (at 1:15) gave her an affectionate kiss. Before that, he had also grabbed her hand while she was walking up the stage. Perhaps he was suddenly reminded of the good ole days with her.

The Wagner Stanwyck romance claim is hilarious.

Birthday boy RJ stars in "A Kiss Before Dying," an uneven but entertaining thriller, based on Ira Levin's novel. Wagner's a cold-blooded charmer, who comes up with a sociopathic solution to the pregnancy of his girlfriend (Joanne Woodward). The best thing about this vividly color film noir is the storytelling and Joanne's sincere performance. My take here:

He lives in Aspen now where he plans to have a green burial. So good for him on this count But oh the stories he could tell and never will

Clifton Webb went to his grave insisting he wasn't gay.

Ha ha Ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha etc,ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha etc.

Mary Astor played RJ's mother in AKBD. Her performance was great.

1940 Census shows RJ (age 10) living with his parents and sister at 10887 Chalon Road. Very close to the Bel-Air Country Club.

The census shows that there was also a "Houseman" and "Cook".

Very nice.

I love A Kiss Before Dying and Wagner is indeed hot in it. That is until co-star Jeffrey Hunter shows up about 1/2 way through and is even hotter. Phewwww....

Thanks to r40 for posting that What's My Line? clip. Wagner displays a great sense of wit and fun that he was never allowed to show as a young actor at Fox in the 1950s. He actually appears on another 1950s episode of WML as the mystery guest where he's also very funny, doing some spot-on voice imitations of Cagney, Stewart and Grant IIRC. Worth looking for on youtube...sorry I never have success linking them.

Clifton was quite the ladies' man

r51 Hopefully some old timers will be left to tell. The stars from the golden age of Hollywood would write their autobios and then when they passed on the all the surviving stars would tell their side. It was my favorite thing to cross reference all the tall tales.

Wagner was in another Clifton Webb film before TITANIC, Fox's bio-pic of John Phillip Sousa STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER.

Clifton looked out for his boy.

This is a GREAT listen. RJ was a guest on Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast a few years ago (they just actually re-uploaded his episode to Spotify/Apple). A really hilarious, no bullshit storyteller. Lots of old Hollywood dish on everyone you can think of. Had only wonderful, terrific things to say about Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Jeffrey Hunter, Roddy McDowell, Liz Taylor, Jack Benny, Peter Sellers.

Bi or not, you can't help coming away from this interview without liking the guy. Seems truly grateful for the ride he's had in "the picture business".

the audience should have given Stanwyck a standing ovation....hollywood royalty among a tv crowd....

Is R48 Wagner's publicist?

Hollywood liked Stanwyck because she played the game. Never publicly bitched about anything. She never signed long term studio contracts but she kept her nose clean and other than her divorces, she was never really involved in any scandals.

I don’t care for Wagner. He was pretty enough but not a memorable actor by any stretch of the imagination. More known for his marriage with Natalie Wood. Always seen at the right parties with the right people. Not an actor’s actor.

[quote]My late sister was friends with him.

R28 You, too?

@r56, "Clifton was quite the ladies' man "

Yep, putting the moves on Rita Hayworth with his mother sitting right behind him... Smooth

that's not Rita Hayworth, r64!

Helen! Is that you, dear!

When he dies Natalie Wood will trend on Twitter. Probably the same for Christopher Walken too.

He's serving Craig Beirko realness in OP's photo

OMFG! Someone who thinks Susan Hayward is Rita Hayworth (R64)

Down girls, some guys aren't up on their "Hayworths" like some of you are. Does this mean a suspension of my Gay Card?

It's HAYWARD

It's HAYWORTH!

(How to drive a prissy queen crazy)

It's HELEN LAWSON you little homosexual boys...

... and people wonder why I drink

I don't remember who said, it but it was said about Wagner, as the person looked back on A Kiss Before Dying. it may have been Woodward, or Virginia Leith. They said he was so emaciated he looked almost sickly. But the camera adds ten pounds (and CinemaScope lenses add even more - the famous "CinemaScope spread") so he looked ok in the film.

R13, he looked years younger in the Titanic movie. Seriously, heart throb-0-rama!

Wagner wrote in his book that Lawson kicked him right in the nuts while crying out OLE. .

R47 The affair is discussed in the Wikipedia article on Stanwyck. The source is Wagner's memoir "I Loved Her in the Movies." Now piss off.

A poster on this website stated that Robert Wagner tried to pick up his handsome male companion at an event years ago. Sounds at least bisexual, leaning toward gay.

"Memoir-ies"??? What does it even mean??

It does not mean anything at all. It would be nice if Americans would stop stealing French words and turning them into total nonsense. No, even better: stop taking French words. It would be better for the French language. You only know how to destroy everything you touch.

It's mémoirE. Memoir-ies doesn't exist.

R79 That's enough merde out of you!

Robert Wagner in later years.

He's 92, has he ever had a major (or minor) health crisis?

Wagner speaks about his affair with Barbara here. I believe him. Why would he make something like that up?

I find it crude for a guy to go around talking about his affair with someone (kiss and tell) - someone dead - and therefore not even with her permission. Wagner is often called a "class act" but he seems a little tacky to me.

@r79, You need a good swift kick in the cuntbone along with the rest of your God forsaken island

I once went on a date with Natasha Gregson Wagner. And then became sorta/kinda friends for a bit.

Met Robert in the process. Very nice guy, but I was insanely intimidated by him.

Is it all about how he killed that bitch and got away with it. LOL.

[quote] Met Robert in the process. Very nice guy, but I was insanely intimidated by him.

Why?

R88 Maybe because he killed that bitch and got away with it? Duh.

R89, yeah, but if so that would've been a crime of passion. He's not exactly a serial killer.

He didnt kill her. It was an accident. Her daughters all adore him.

R90 Who knows how many other bitches he killed. I wouldn't wanna be alone with him if I was a drunk bitch like the drunk bitch he killed.

^ He didn't kill me...

R80 At least italian has a REAL history and a REAL language, a REAL culture. They don't need to steal everything from the others. They also border France, this is certainly not an insult, you buffon!

You tell ‘em, R94!!!!!

I wanna know more about Jeffrey Hunter. Wagner didn’t say much aside from John Ford gave the part in “the searchers” that he coveted to Hunter. Ford seemed gleeful to tell Wagner he was not going to get the part. Hunter worked with Ford a number of times after the searchers. If the rumour about him having something with one of his actors, I can imagine why he would choose the gorgeous Hunter as a protege.

I've often suspected that among Natalie's last words were "You BITCH! You stole MY trick AGAIN!"

Ford and Hunter had worked together before The Searchers.

@r94, Do you even understand the concept on how America was created once the scummy Brits stole it from the natives and brought enslaved Africans here?

R88, because I was 22 year old kid. He was a big time movie star. I was out of my element, I guess.

^ Don't mind the "Why/how come" troll, the rest of us got it

I could use a Robert Wagner/Jeffery Hunter sandwich circa 1956 about now

R77, Barbara Stanwyck did not publicly discuss any relationship with Robert Wagner. He can write anything he wants, she's dead. I believe it could have been a one-two night stand like she had with Farley Granger. But four years? RJ is full of shit.

Apparently Douglas Trumbull was certain Natalie was MURDERED.

[quote]Douglas Trumbull was a personal hero for his visual effects… but also because he spent half his Brainstorm Q&A/slideshow at MoMi on how Natalie Wood was a great swimmer and was definitely, without a doubt, murdered. Fucking wildest Q&A ever.

[quote]Clifton Webb went to his grave insisting he wasn't gay.

I'm almost certain Noel Coward mentions in his diaries that Clifton was gay but determinedly celibate. Wonder if he ever tried to convince Noel that he was straight?

[quote]Ford and Hunter had worked together before The Searchers.

R98 In what? I think The Searchers was Hunter's first with Ford. Wagner had already worked with Ford on What Price Glory. Ford disliked Wagner and called him "Boob" rather than Bob.

@r105, I'm Clifton Webb's mother, I lived with him all his life until he was 70 years old and even I know he was Gay

R106 - Did not realize the Festus Haggen (Ken Curtis) was in The Searchers.

R108 Yeah he was in a lot of Ford's movies, and he eventually married Barbara Ford (Ford's daughter). Barbara had also briefly been married to Robert Walker, some time after he was diverced from Jennifer Jones. Walker was a crazy drunk and beat Barbara senseless and the marriage was annulled.

R108 Curtis was also at one time lead vocalist in Sons Of The Pioneers - a western singing group that sang on the soundtrack of some of Ford's films.

Wagner comes across very likeable in the podcast linked above. (BTW thanks for that. The interview with Gary Marshall after Wagner's is actually better. Marshall serves up a lot of great stories and dirt)

But in the podcast Wagner contradicts info in his books. For instance he hasn't got a bad thing to say about Raquel Welch (or anybody else) whereas in his book he reads her to filth.

I don't know about this guy. He smells phony. But, yeah, I would have plowed him back in the day. HAF

^ Everything about RJ smacks of phony, that's why he did so well maneuvering Hollywood. He's always been likable, but always shrouded in scandal. He was smart, young and fuckable. That opens a lot of doors

His daughters have a gilded view of their father, who seems like a sociopath.

The entertainment industry is a magnet for sociopaths…my turn to be the question queen. - why?

Still acting.

I prefer to call him, “Number 2”.

114, because the entertainment industry offers access to things that sociopaths want— power, status, wealth, and endless opportunities to fuck people over.

I love how you silly queens called him "RJ" like you are personal friends.

he looks hot in the OP photo

but he's been a bloated, toupee wearing pig for years

Lana Wood's memoir last year already outed him, saying Natalie had caught him with their male butler. She stayed with him because "better the devil you know."

I think he has his own hair

Lana Wood outed Wagner in this podcast, too.

R120 I’m imagining some old grey haired British dude!

He had a weird voice, a pretentious kind of gay voice.

Lana Wood is all in

R125 the way she says “clear yourself if you can” she’s very strange. It seemed very staged and she’s clearly acting in that clip. I feel bad for her she just wants answers but what was she hoping he would do. Confess? She’s watched too many movies!

^^ she's obviously wearing a mic. But so what? Good for her, but she was too nervous to get anything out of him. Poorly executed maneuver.

BTW this happened in Palm Springs

@r118, "I love how you silly queens called him "RJ" like you are personal friends. "

Ok, we'll call him "Bob" from now on

@r124, "He had a weird voice, a pretentious kind of gay voice. "

I thought so too, but I thought it more a rich California frat boy accent

In the Gary Marshall interview after Wagner's he says Vincent Price's wife Coral Browne invited Marshall's wife to a three way with she and Vinny while the two couples were on vacation together.

He also said Wally Cox was the dominant party in his relationship with Brando.

Gary Marshall knew everybody and he isn't afraid to talk.

with *her*

Holy Sh-t wasn't he pretty in that first photo..Damn!!

R130 -- Do you mean Peter Marshall's interview? Garry never went on Gilbert's podcast. Peter sounds terrific for 90+ years of age. You'd think he was still in his early 60s based on his voice and sharpness. We should all be so lucky!

I'm a minority who doesn't believe he killed her. I think they were all drunk as shit, had a fight and she was wobbly and made a really dumb impulse act due to alcohol.

[quote] Wagner speaks about his affair with Barbara here. I believe him. Why would he make something like that up?

R83 Probably for the same reason that the discreet bisexual Michael Redgrave claimed to have committed adultery with the very much older Edith Evans.

A cover-up, perhaps?

[quote] nailing Laurence Harvey to the cross

What are you implying, R17?

^eeeeeeeew!

R136, R137 Larry Skikne's body was as slimy and unappetising as Ben Whishaw's.

[quote] some light facial hair. Hot as Hell.

Yes he needs it, R43.

He also looks good in the OP's picture but otherwise he's as bland as a vanilla milk shake.

R134 Wagner should kill you, too. You deserve it.

R104 Douglas Trumbull won't be testifying against Wagner in any murder enquiry because he died last week.

[quote] Lana Wood has revealed that her sister caught Wagner in the arms of another man in June 1961, which led to their divorce in 1962.

[quote] Maureen O'Hara claims she caught veteran movie director John Ford with a young man.

English homosexual film-maker Lindsay Anderson (who made that fag-hag movie 'The Whales of August') developed an acquaintance with John Ford from 1950 and wrote a book on him in 1983.

John Ford made at least ten films with 1920s hunk George O'Brien.

That podcast at R59 at 32 minutes mentions John Ford assaulting cute young Robert Wagner on the set of 'What Price Glory' in 1952.

[quote]Wagner speaks about his affair with Barbara here. I believe him. Why would he make something like that up?

To straighten out his image, and Stanwyck's.

[quote] Probably for the same reason that the discreet bisexual Michael Redgrave claimed to have committed adultery with the very much older Edith Evans. A cover-up, perhaps?

So he was already married but he needed to claim he was cheating on his wife with Edith Evans to prove he wasn't gay?

I'm not saying Redgrave wasn't gay/bi, but wasn't his wife already his cover-up?

[quote]Maureen O'Hara claims she caught veteran movie director John Ford with a young man.

She didn't say a young man. She just said it was a man - "one of the most famous leading men in the picture business. " It seems obvious that it was Tyrone Power, star of The Long Gray Line with O'Hara.

Tais-toi, R79.

R144 Rachel Kempson's memoirs say she went into the marriage with Michael Redgrave in 1935 knowing that was he a 'changeling' and a 'chameleon who changed according to who he was with' but that he was ‘really beautiful’, ‘dazzlingly attractive’ and 'an extremely handsome man'.

Both of them had dalliances during the 1940s and 1950s. And the bizarre anecdote about the 1936 dalliance with Edith Evans was bandied about after her death in the 1970s.

I think Stefanie Powers had ideas about marrying RJ and he passed her over for look alike Jill St John.

Stefanie is nuts. Wise choice.

R144 She publishes a $40 book of Irish blarney but doesn't name names?

Are you Stefanie's neighbor? Love the garbage cans and peering over the fence stories Ha!

Many people think it was John Wayne, not Tyrone Power, with Ford when O'Hara walked in on them. Do some reading before you claim it's impossible because in fact it's very plausible.

[quote] Do some reading

Who do you suggest? Gossip queens who were there at the time or anonymous Datalounge gossip queens who weren't.

Maureen O'Hara may claim she caught John Ford with "a young man".

But were they dressed? Were their cocks erect? And was there any sucking? Of any kind?

r49, the stories of Stefanies' antics are legendary in L.A.

I grew up on Hart to Hart and was really disheartened.

[quote] Maureen O'Hara may claim she caught John Ford with "a young man".

That's NOT what O'Hara wrote. See, here you are challenging without having any idea what you are talking about.

Careful. Stefanie gets every thread about her shut down. She must have a direct line to Muriel

Hey Stef, if you're reading this, getting roasted on DL is a GOOD thing. All in good fun, seeetheart. Besitos.

Stefanie doesn't like when you mention her camel toe.

R153 Thank you for pointing out my shortcomings but what did Maureen O'Hara see when she walked in that room?

I'm not going to spend $40 to find out.

What did Stefanie say? I recall a magazine interview with her and the writer said that she had an annoying habit of interrupting him when he was interviewing her. And she made some ridiculous comments about the WEST SIDE STORY remake about putting more people of color in it. She said that it was done in the name of political correctness and it wasn’t authentic. How would she know, not living in New York City? She was always annoying to me. Her and Jill. Lousy B-list actresses with barely any talent. Just lucky enough to be in the right place and hook up with the right movers and shakers. She also has a terrible nose job, as does the current Mrs. Robert Wagner.

Maureen O'Hara said she saw John Ford passionately kissing a very famous leading man. I do agree it's probably the bisexual Tyrone Power, and that Ford was a repressed closet case his entire life, which explains so much of his bastard like behavior.

Orson Welles' The Other Side of the Wind (pretty good lost film released by Netflix in 2018) has main character that's a closeted homosexual "manly man" type of director played by John Huston (the irony!) who's likely at least partially based on John Ford.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I also agree that RJ did not kill her. His worst crime would be unintentional neglect, he and Walken were probably too drunk to hear Natalie cry for help or even perhaps passed out themselves. Lana was grifting off of Natalie even before she died.

[quote] Maureen O'Hara said she saw John Ford passionately kissing

I bet she didn't see their actual lips. The Charles Laughton biographies describe Irishwoman Maureen O'Hara as an absolute pest haunting the hospital demanding that Charles Laughton repent his sins and become a Catholic before he breathed his last breath.

R159 I mean if we're going with your interpretation, she probably saw Ford's lips on something else.....

[quote] Maureen O'Hara said she saw John Ford passionately kissing a very famous leading man. I do agree it's probably the bisexual Tyrone Power, and that Ford was a repressed closet case his entire life, which explains so much of his bastard like behavior.

R158 Yes, I read O'Hara's memoir and came to the same conclusion – that it was Ty Power. This was her chance to get in the last word on Ford, who pulled the same shit on her as he did on Wagner, abusing and bullying her throughout the filming of The Quiet Man. In contrast, she spoke reverently of John Wayne.

I always thought he’d have made a great replacement main host of TCM for Robert Osborne, except perhaps not for the controversy related to the Natalie Wood death mystery and his possible involvement with it. This given his connection with so many classic film era greats he knew, and was befriended by as he came up in the industry towards the end of that era.

And RJ was actually VERY close friends with Robert Osborne. Both were under contract at the same time...a deep friendship to the end. They actually had/have a similar look (especially in their latter years).

I had the hots for him so much when he starred in his 1960s “To Catch A Thief” TV series. And I thought his deep, booming, bullfrog-balls voice was very sexy.

Wagner is a good raconteur. He's interviewed in the 2015 documentary, Tab Hunter Confidential based on Hunter's memoir of his closeted life in Hollywood. We assume we're seeing Wagner because Natalie Wood famously bearded for Tab while she was secretly seeing Dennis Hopper. But the other connection between Wagner and Hunter was Henry Willson.

Henry Willson got the best dick on the planet. In his shoes I would have done the same.

[quote] Ford, who pulled the same shit on her

OK, R151.

So Maureen O'Hara went back to Fords to get "the same shit", as you crudely describe it, seven times.

To fully understand Wagner's early stardom and popularity, check him out in the great 1952 Susan Hayward bio-pic of singer Jane Froman WITH A SONG IN MY HEART. Wagner only makes two brief appearances, as a shy inarticulate soldier and then later as the same character, shell-shocked from war, but as Hayward sings to him both times, he is unforgettably charismatic, even with few lines to speak.

It was a true example of a studio (Fox) placing a young untried contract player in a major film to introduce him to audiences and test his popularity that paid off perfectly.

R167 She was a tough broad. Read the book if you don't believe me.

[quote]“For years I wondered why John Ford grew to hate me so much. I couldn’t understand what made him say and do so many terrible things to me. I realise now that he didn’t hate me at all. He loved me very much and even thought that he was in love with me.”

R169 Maureen O’Hara (who knew the man very well) I think nailed John Ford’s psychology. He was self hating and miserable because of issues regarding his own sexuality, like so many men of his time, and took it out on people like her and Wagner who he saw too much of himself in.

I think she’s an underrated actress too, I love her work with Ford.

I would imagine John Ford's self hate over his latent homosexuality was taken out on O'Hara and Wagner because he resented all of the sexual attention they effortlessly received, r170. And O'Hara was perceptive enough to recognize that. in her relationship with Ford

[quote]Maureen O'Hara may claim she caught John Ford with "a young man".

I don't recall her writing it was a "young" man, and she didn't catch him with the guy, she opened an office door and caught them kissing. Nor does she say "passionately".

[quote]I would imagine John Ford's self hate over his latent homosexuality was taken out on O'Hara and Wagner because he resented all of the sexual attention they effortlessly received,

The I guess that means he would have taken it out on almost all of his stars?

*Then

R172 He pretty much did, if you read about what working with him was like. Excellent director, but something of a bastard on set. He was known to mock and bully all his actors.

R174 Not just the beauties he was supposedly sexually jealous of, then?

Ford was more enigmatic that that, he was also friends with a lot of his actors and they with him. Here's a shot of him playing cards with Wayne, Fonda, Ward Bond and others.

On a fishing trip with Bond, Fonda, and Wayne.

I don't understand the one person on this thread who really is into disproving the idea John Ford *might* have been gay. Especially when one of his closest colleagues herself believes him to have been. It's like the people who say Liz Taylor didn't REALLY know James Dean, despite them bonding during a months long location shoot in Marfa.

Seems to me Hollywood is a cesspit of lust, jealousy, greed and desire, like the movies they make. Imagine that

Sex, drugs, party party party...and work a bit = Old Hollywood.

R178 No more than the sports industry or private business or the government or the monarchy, etc.

^ True, but Hollywood makes it's money by putting the whole mess on film and selling it to the public

The whole mess would not make it past the censors.

^ What censors? What hasn't Hollywood shown, or at least alluded to the public about the 7 deadly sins?

Ford would apparently pick out a target on each project and make their life miserable.

John Agar on "Fort Apache" was one example. Wayne went to Agar and explained what was going on. Wayne, of course, got a lot of crap from Ford.

Ford was even a POS to his own brother, Francis Ford, who had been famous before him and helped him up the ladder. He would hire Francis for roles in the movies he directed, but not give him any dialog. Francis Ford played the old man who got out of his death bed to watch the fight in "The Quiet Man". You can also see him as a friend of the coach driver in "Stagecoach". Never any dialog.

When James Cagney worked with John Ford on "Mister Roberts", he was asked what did he (JC) think caused Ford's behavior. Cagney's response was one word "MALICE".

Francis Ford's hot actor son Phillip Ford.

[quote]I don't understand the one person on this thread who really is into disproving the idea John Ford *might* have been gay.

Me neither, but it happens is most DL threads like this. Usually it's when the subject is female and some DL gays want hard "evidence" to support a gay claim because they just can't handle it.

[quote]When James Cagney worked with John Ford on "Mister Roberts", he was asked what did he (JC) think caused Ford's behavior. Cagney's response was one word "MALICE".

Cagney said this was true of Ford and "all the Irish".

But Cagney was Irish? ? ?

So he would know.

Exactly

"When John Ford met James Cagney at the airport, the director warned that they would "tangle asses," which caught Cagney by surprise. Cagney later said: "I would have kicked his brains out. He was so goddamned mean to everybody. He was truly a nasty old man." The next day, Cagney was slightly late on set, and Ford became incensed. Cagney cut short the imminent tirade, saying: "When I started this picture, you said that we would tangle asses before this was over. I'm ready now - are you?" Ford backed down and walked away and he and Cagney had no further conflicts on the set."

Is "tangle asses" a euphemism?

R191, I love this story. Where did you read it?

When I read Cagney's "MALICE" description of Ford long ago, I was struck by how insightful Cagney was.

Being of Irish descent myself, I found that Cagney pinpointed and had put a label to behavior that I had sometimes seen in others and that label helped me to recognize exactly what was going on when that kind of meanness made an appearance.

James Cagney is also an actor I feel like is underrated these days, compared to other stars of his time that are well remembered like Humphrey Bogart (who I also love). Cagney was great, one of the best talents of the classic era.

What was the deal with Cagney and Audie Murphy? Wasn’t that supposed to be a downlow relationship?

What Price Glory was supposed to be a musical, but for some reason it ended up a non-musical with a couple of songs. I think Cagney only did it because it was supposed to be a musical, and Dan Dailey was also cast for his musical ability. I think Wagner may have ended up with a song.

It's well known Jack Warner wanted Cary Grant as Higgins in the film of My Fair Lady but Warner also wanted Cagney as Alfred P. Doolittle. Cagney told him his song and dance days were over and he didn't think he could do a convincing cockney accent either.

Wagner seemed to spend considerable time with Cary Grant and Fred Astaire according to his bios. What were these boys up to really? The straight-washing in his books is a bit difficult to swallow.

R168, I've seen that movie and I know exactly what you mean.

R168 I was not paying attention to Wagner I think Rory Calhoun owned that movie in terms of hot men.

Well, they were both hot in different ways but Wagner was truly set up to introduce a STAR.

If anyone clever can find and link clips of Wagner's 2 brief appearances in WITH A SONG IN MY HEART you'd all see the Fox Star Machine in process pretty clearly.

Robert Wagner first appears at 1:25:50.

R200 If Wagner hadn't played it someone else would have had to. Would they have shot the scenes any differently? He was very good looking and he got a ton of fan mail.

I totally agree, r202. Any hot young guy with an innocent beautiful smile would have become a star with those 2 scenes. Such a great and unforgettable set-up. Jeffrey Hunter, Tab Hunter, Tony Curtis...well, maybe not Tony, he never looked innocent.

R201 Wagner's second appearance in the film starts around 1:38:00.

Wagner wrote in one of his books that Hayward was actually nothing like her film persona. That she was rather shy and unaffected.

Another Wagner bit from his book: he and Stefanie Powers had on screen chemistry but they did not become close friends. They didn't socialize off set. Honestly I don't think he likes her much

Oh lord, when Hayward sings "I'll Walk Alone" to the shell-shocked Wagner I lose it every time.

Did RJ happen to mention anything about Rory Calhoun in his memoir?

Very few celebrities who pen their life stories are 100% honest. What’s the most recent celebrity memoir that was brutally honest?

The Natalie Wood/Robert Wagner short story mentioned upthread in a recent collection of short stories (the story is called “Brainstorm” after Natalie’s final film) is quite gripping. The whole thing is very menacing and they never even get back to the yacht where you know the real shit went down. It takes place at the restaurant where they were all boozing beforehand.

Natalie recalls a conversation with her gay best friend Mart Crowley where she confides in him that Wagner hit her once and she had to run to a neighbor’s house for help. I looked this up and it did seem to really happen.

It also states that George Segal once made a racist joke about Sidney Poitier leaving watermelon seeds in the cushions of the Wagner’s yacht and how disgusted Natalie was with Segal after that (they were filming a movie together at the time).

R210 Why would Mart Crowley be so defensive of Wagner in the following years, all the way up to Crowley's own death, if he hit Natalie? Crowley loved Natalie very much, and he wouldn't be so defensive of a man who abused her. And Segal doesn't strike me as a racist either. These "short stories" seem like salacious fabrication of the Kenneth Tynan diaries style, he accuses every famous Hollywood liberal he gets drunk at a party of suddenly turning hard-line conservative. Yeah right, you bitch.

R206, isn't that because Stefanie Powers is secretly gay? It may have perturbed him the same way Pierce Brosnan detested Stephanie Zimbalist.

^^ I know nothing about this. I've never heard she's gay

Another interesting thing he maintains in his book is that Natalie was hot-headed and quick to lose her temper. He mentions this a few times which reads odd. I don't know about this guy.

[QUOTE] [R210] Why would Mart Crowley be so defensive of Wagner in the following years, all the way up to Crowley's own death, if he hit Natalie

Well, the book is presented as fiction so I’m not sure we’re supposed to think that conversation actually took place.

However, the “48 Hours” on Natalie Wood from a couple of years back tracked down a man who was a fifteen year old at the time and confirmed that Natalie came to his house he lived in with his mother in the middle of the night after escaping from Robert who had struck her. She spent the night and then returned home the next morning.

If you have read anything about the psychological mindfuckery Wagner engaged in with Dennis Davern over the years regarding the ill-fated night on the Splendour, I’m not sure you’d be so willing to take Crowley’s supposed allegiance to Robert as gospel. He might not have even known about the reported abuse.

I think most girls were being abused at that time. You know, the dreaded patriarchy. You need to keep it in perspective based on the times.

[QUOTE] And Segal doesn't strike me as a racist either.

The watermelon seed incident is detailed in Dennis Davern’s book on Natalie. Davern was the skipper on Solendour.

Simply Google “George Segal watermelon seeds.”

R214 I don't trust the testimony of some random man who claims Natalie Wood stayed in his house when he was 15, sorry. Lots of 5 minutes of fame to be made off this case.

Dennis Davern also seems like someone who's grifting off the case similarly to Lana Wood. I don't trust any of them.

R215 Revisionist history. Mutual (emphasis on both men and women doing this to their partners) shoving and slaps weren't considered abuse then, and I wouldn't consider it abuse now, but women weren't being commonly violently beaten in the 1970s-1980s.

There's an entire cottage industry off of a case of a woman's tragic (accidental!) death from the bottom feeders surrounding her, none of them are reliable sources because they'll just say whatever gets the most salacious attention to further their profit and attention. I trust Mart Crowley because he had a livelihood outside of the Wood-Wagners, these people did not.

[QUOTE] I don't trust the testimony of some random man who claims Natalie Wood stayed in his house when he was 15, sorry. Lots of 5 minutes of fame to be made off this case.

He’s not even named in the program and there was a police report filed that “48 Hours” obtained to back up the story. If someone is not even named, how could they be looking for (it’s 15, not 5) minutes of fame? That doesn’t make any sense.

R219 It's still not a reliable testimony because it would have been what? 50 years since the even happened? I don't have an accurate memory of what happened to me at 15 at all.

Someone on this thread is oddly invested in giving racists and abusers the benefit of the doubt.

Wagner writes a lot about Don Johnson and what good friends they were while neighbors in Aspen. He writes thatt the two of them golfed and fished together frequently.

This book reads so straight it's nauseating. He's no Richard Burton in the memoir dept.

Bottom line: Wagner's wife drowned from their boat while he was on board. That's his legacy, whether or not he wants it to be and regardless of how it happened. Nobody reading his memoir is going to be surprised by his sanitized version of events.

R217 Choke on a hairy cunt and die, Miss. Were you there to witness every fucking couple in history? Stupid cunt. Of course there was severe abuse of girls and children. Even well into the 80s. They were considered one step above the blacks.

R217 Sensible and rational.

R224 Unhinged and loony.

R225 Revolting stupid fucking cuntbag. DL hates you, cunt.

CDAN had a blind yesterday implying Wagner is working with a ghostwriter on a new memoir that will say Walken was responsible.

CDAN, though....

R213, never heard that? It's been around forever, and not just here.

I remember a time when men wouldn't swear if a woman was present, would hold doors for women, hold chairs for them, stand up if they came into a room. Light their cigarette, stand up and give them their seat on the bus. (Women's lib was against these things, they wanted to be treated like men.)

My parents taught me to do all these things, as a boy. And to never hit a girl. I'm sure women were abused - by abusers. Just like now. It was not the greatest time for women, there was a lot of employment discrimination and in other ways they were discriminated against. But it wasn't some free for all for abusive men to beat whatever woman they felt like, I don't know where people get all this fiction from.

R229 has dementia and is also the dumbest cunt.

R230 Foul mouths are vey ugly.

R230 Well, well. You're a little bit abusive, yourself, aren't you?

R229. I've been taught to respect women as well. I have a big beefy handsome gay friend who doesn't open or hold doors for women. He thinks this is "playing straight." He's an utter embarrassment.

R229 = DOB 1920

R234 1958

In an interview with Liz Smith (o n youtube) she tried to get him to get into gay Hollyeood. He wasn't having it. Wouldn't even discuss Billy Haines reason for leaving film. Slick homo.

R233 Treating girls like they're mentally deficient assholes is the way to do it, fucker cuntbag.

r236, are you saying that Liz Smith tried to get Wagner to talk about gay Hollywood? Your post is rather confusing.

Yes, I was quite high when I wrote that. My apologies. Here's the link to the interview. One has to be a bit forgiving of Liz as she's quite aged here.

Wagner avoids each approach Liz makes toward anything gay But of course she was closeted as well.

Liz spent one Christmas with Joan!

Wagner writes a lot about Don Johnson and what good friends they were while neighbors in Aspen. He writes that the two of them fished together frequently.

Robert Wagner. Robert NASTY!

Oh, I wouldn't recommend going fishing with RJ.

RJ and Don in the woods

He could write the gayest memoir on the planet. Instead we get this garbage for the frauen.

I tried so hard to watch that Liz Smith interview with RJ but it made me almost as tense as I'm sure RJ was throughout the whole thing. Never got to the part where she tried to get him to talk about gay Hollywood. Liz should have retired 10 years earlier.

I think Wagner had a high voice and spent a life time speaking in a lower voice and that’s why it sounds weird and strained.

Liz was so fawning. I couldn't watch much.

I assume questions about Natalie's death were off-limits.

He might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I Have Dark Secrets."

[quote]Liz was so fawning. I couldn't watch much.

Liz Smith's style was to be friends with celebrities and easy in with the personal probing questions after they trusted her.

The Wood drowning was not murder. They all had been drinking starting in the middle of the day on Catalina. It continued back on the boat- Woods was smashed, fell off the boat and drowned because she could not swim. Wagner, what’s his name (Walden), and the captain were too drunk and or passed out to do anything about it. Found her the next morning and didn’t even know she was off the boat. It’s a drinking story gang- perhaps a story of alcoholism. Accidents and deaths like this due to intoxication every day. Wagner is not a killer. And I for one believe he loved Wood- lots of evidence- and long time couples fight especially when they are heavy drinkers. Bisexual probably and alcoholic probably, Natalie too.

[QUOTE] The Wood drowning was not murder. They all had been drinking starting in the middle of the day on Catalina. It continued back on the boat- Woods was smashed, fell off the boat and drowned because she could not swim. Wagner, what’s his name (Walden), and the captain were too drunk and or passed out to do anything about it. Found her the next morning and didn’t even know she was off the boat.

You haven’t spent any time really looking into the case. I can tell. Several things you state in the above either didn’t happen or completely ignore the real timeline of that evening.

I suggest you do some research before posting more about this.

charlie (R249) saves the day! Without his expertise no on would have figured that out.

Case Closed

I was having dinner with members of my family in a Nob Hill restaurant around 20 years ago and was surprised to see Wagner dining by himself at a nearby table. He was still handsome. He gave me a couple glances and I didn’t suspect anything because I wasn’t aware of his bisexuality at the time. I’m not implying that I’m a looker but I was surprised by his glances.

R250 Has the REAL intel.

R249 Sure, Jan. Because some stupid cunt on DL thinks so IT MUST BE TRUE.

R240, Don Johnson? Of the Datalounge Johnsons?

Natalie Woods and Christopher Walden

R255. But of course. Wagner and Johnson. That's a hot couple. Doing manly things in the Aspen woods.

Has he spilled any gossip about all his guest appearances on NCIS? I heard he tried to get geriatric Mark Harmon and saggy Pam Dawber to do a threesome with him.

R256, I believe it was actor Robert Walden, a very handsome and irresistible hottie.