Ethel Merman Was Not Good...

Ok. Fascinating topic, OP, moron.

Agreed, OP. She was a shrill foghorn.

No recording was able to pick up the force of her magnificent voice.

She was best heard live in a theater. Up until a certain age, that is.

What did she do to Ernest Borgnine? Sweet little Marty ??

I'm still reeling from finding out she and Bob Hope were fuck buddies.

Not sure why I took it so hard.

Ewwww

In other breaking news: water is wet!

Careful OP, my husband will slap you silly.

She was funny in "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World". But as a vocalist onstage? No.

[quote]Not sure why I took it so hard.

But not as hard as Ethel.

Shut up you sleazy bastard.

Yawn. All the OP needed was "There. I said it!" to have the full effect.

Merman was just loud. That's right. That's how she headlined hit Broadway shows in the '30s, '40s, '50s and '60s. That's why Irving Berlin, George Gershwin, Cole Porter and Jule Styne gladly tailored their scores to her.

The Bitch wasn't good she was great. GREAT!

Her pussy tasted like four day old bouillabaisse.

SO?

.....

There is a porn star on the scene now with a fabulous muscly body and large penis. Unfortunately he's got Ethel Merman's face.

He appears with 'John Bronco' and 'Joe DeMatteo' but I've forgotten his porn name.

The loudness and brashness were great, and part of why she was such a huge star.

Broadway theaters did not have miking until the 70s, and Broadway had even more gigantic old palaces as it dos now (lots have been torn down). They needed a big brash voice and presence with enough charisma to fill the auditoriums.

Plus, she was not trying to star as the invalid poetess Elizabeth Barrett in "The Barretts of Wimpole Street"; she was playing loud brash extroverted parts like Reno Sweeney and Mrs. Sally Adams and Rose Hovick.

She appeared on That Girl *TWICE*.

"On asking his wife how an audition had gone, Borgnine was told: “Well, they were mad about my 35-year-old body, my 35-year-old voice, and my 35-year-old face.”

“Is that so?” Borgnine responded. “And what did they think of your 65-year-old cunt?” Merman’s killer rejoinder came back without missing a beat: “You weren’t mentioned once.”

She’s too “Hello my baby hello my honey hello my ragtime pal” for me. Too jazz hands for my taste.

She’s just a campy old lady to me.

I feel like she’s something I would have seen on Public Access in the 90’s for a talent show. I know that’s harsh but I don’t know how anyone could be moved by her as a singer.

Here's your answer, r18:

Don't forget... the Ethel Merman disco phase...

It was real. It happened.

Ethel had a unique talent, she sold tickets, and was extremely reliable almost never missing performances.

Those qualities guarantee a career.

R21 What was her unique talent though?

I mean I’ve very curious to try and understand her appeal.

It was the 30’s and she was good at being loud so everyone could hear. That’s what I’m getting.

Like I’m reading the comments on YouTube for this song and they all love her. All 16 of them but regardless one goes into detail about how she is having fun with vowels.

For me this sounds like kids music.

She sang at JFK’s inauguration.

She was also a Rabid Republican. Eww!

Didn’t succeed in Hollywood because of that FACE.

I love "Hostess..."

She never forgot her secretarial gal pals in Queens. She often went back and played cards with them.

Shut your filthy mouth. Loud=Good!

Google: UNMIKED

in sea of clones, she was something else. . . might not have been great but it was distinct.

Wobble wobble wobble

Some guy did a great impression of her in Airplane II, The Sequel.

My bad, it was the original Airplane!

And it was the original Ethel!

She performed with America’s sweetheart Mary Martin.

Ethel admits she goes over her grocery list while performing.

One of the many celebs that leave you scratching your head as to how they became/sustained their fame?

"Come on, Neely O'Hara can't hurt you. " "You bet your ASS she can't. Because she isn't gonna get the chance! The only hit that comes out of my show is Helen Lawson(a.k.a. Merman). And that's me, baby, remember?"

Loud, wobbly vibrato and flat any time she held a note- same as Liza- but it all strangely works on stage live. But no, not a great vocal artist- a performer- ditto Liza. Neither sold many records. Best taken live- in a performance.

"I've had it rough before. I'm a barracuda. I don't need pills like Neely. Sure, I know you dried her out, but it won't last. Neely hasn't got that hard core like me. She never learned to roll with the punches. And in this business they come left, right and below the belt. Neely has no class. No real down-to-the-gut class. But she's talented, Henry. She's really got it. I knew that when I kicked her out of my show. She'd never believe it, but I'm sorry for her. Nothing can destroy her talent... ...but she'll destroy herself."

So what's your point, OP?

"There's noooo business like shoooow business. There's noooo business I knoooow."

It wasn't just her volume - she also had extremely clear diction, which is why the stage composers and lyricists liked her - because they thought their lyrics were clever and they wanted everyone in the audience to get the jokes and the interior rhymes. But, yes, as a voice to listen to for pleasure, the vocal equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard......

You fags may not have liked to hear her wobble, but I sure liked it when she would wobble on my clit!!! I always called her Annie Make Me Cum, because she sure did!!!!!

Forgotten just how good looking Robert Hays was in is prime...

R31 to R37

We get it. You know how to use YouTube.

Either make a comment about why you are positing the video, or don’t clog up the thread.

Ethel was furious about not being cast in the movie version of Gypsy. A caricature of her appears on the wall of one of the strippers’ dressing rooms in the movie version. Ethel’s head and wide-open mouth are drawn bigger than the rest of her body. Not sure if that was meant to be an homage or a dis to Ethel.

She was great in the film of Call Me Madam.

But it was a very ... particular role.

Not to diminish her talent, but studios and venues weren't as technically advanced as they are now. You needed someone who could scream and keep up with the live orchestra.

It was a different time, as you might say.

The thing about Ethel Merman and most of the other stars of the day is that they had personalities that filled the theater. There are many stage actors where one looks at their surviving film and think WTF??? I have posted this before, but the last actress that I know of who has that quality was Joanne Whorley. She was in an awful musical titled "The Prince of Central Park". When she was on stage, you felt every song, every line was sung or spoken just to you. These women could perform like lasers.

Laurette Taylor was famous for the magazine subscription scene in Glass Menagerie, but as a friend who saw her in the play said, there was nothing small or Actor's Studio about it. She projected the pathos to the rear of the theater. Yes, part of the issue was that actors were not miked, but also stages were darker then. Nobody used as much lighting as we do today and the bulbs were dimmer. Small, did not read past the stage lip.

Ethel Merman’s crossover album:

Look who taught her how to sing.

Ethel on "What Is My Line"?

Even Brentent says she's loud

On WML again

R16- She also made an appearances on this-

She’s been dead 38 years & is still being talked about. I’d shut the fuck up OP.

[quote] She’s been dead 38 years & is still being talked about.

So are Stalin and Mao.

Bad argument.

Wow, I just read her Wikipedia entry and I had no idea that she was a gentile. Her whole demeanor was so Borscht Belt.

I had a bad downstairs neighbor -- up all night, loud smoker -- and a DL poster suggested I entertain him at high volume with Miss Merman. "Oooh you caaaant get a maaan with a guuuun etc., helped inspire him to decamp our building. Thanks Ethel, you're the hostess with the mostest!

R54 I used to bemoan the fact that Merman wasn’t cast in the film. And while I still do think it is a pity that her performance wasn’t immortalized on film, I can also see why they didn’t cast her. She isn’t the best actress. Roz wasn’t a singer but I think she gave a great performance in the film, especially her monologue right before Everythings Coming Up Roses.

[quote] I know that’s harsh but I don’t know how anyone could be moved by her as a singer.

I think I have to agree with R18 here. I absolutely adore her renditions of Alexanders Ragtime Band and No Business Like Show Business. . When it is a big bawdy number no one does it like The Merm. But, she doesn’t have an ability to really connect on any emotional level. When I want to hear a moving rendition of a song, I am not going to go for hers. And in a show like Gypsy, in which every song has an emotional layer, she just doesn’t cut it.

[quote]She’s been dead 38 years & is still being talked about. I’d shut the fuck up OP.

Oh, I suspect the OP has been dead for well over 38 years.

She just wasn't right for film--she was great on stage in those gigantic Broadway auditoriums, but like Carol Channing and Zero Mostel, she just didn't know how to tone down her effects for the screen.

She's better in her 30s and early 40 films, though--I like her in "Alexander's Ragtime Band," where she gets to sing "Say It with Music." And of course she's one of the most hilarious things about "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" because she deliberately lets her obnoxiousness be a running joke.

r68, This is actually written into Call Me Madame.

The best Momma Rose I've ever seen was Tyne Daly. She was a fine actor (easily better than Merman or Bette Midler or Patti LuPone, and even better than Roz Russell), and a much better singer in the role than Russell or Midler. I did not get to see Angela Lansbury, though, and I wish I could have. (From all accounts, I did not miss much by not seeing Bernadette Peters or Linda Lavin or Imelda Staunton play the part.)

It's such a hard role because you need such a great actress and you also need a powerful voice. Rose has to be genuinely funny at most points, furious during "Rose's Turn," charming during "Small World," and terrifying during "Everything's Coming Up Roses." And she has to be genuinely moving throughout: if you don't feel it's genuinely hard for her to say "no" to June after June begs to accept Mr. Grantzinger's offer, you can't feel sorry for her when June abandons her at the end of Act I.

R64, R69, Ha! Anything I can do you can do better. Love, R63

My dad hates her every time she come on the TV he would change the channel

R74 I am sure he doesn’t have to change the TV much anymore.

R65- She was Episcopalian.

R72- Linda Lavin- oh no, SAY IT AIN'T SO

R71- Donald O'Conner NEVER seemed heterosexual in spite of a wife and kids.

Towards the end it was like she became some wind up doll that went out there and belted.

At least she seemed to be in on the joke with her cameo in Airplane.

R66. Loud smoking is the worst.

R79- My mother took my friend and I to see Airplane in 1980. We were 14 years old. My mother laughed her head off at the scene where some army guy is in an asylum because he thinks he's Ethel Merman. My friend and I did not much enjoy the movie at the time. I think we were too young to appreciate it. Nine years later I watched the whole movie on videotape with my friends and we all enjoyed it and laughed a lot.

The thing with Merman as Rose was that it was written just for her. Others have come along and put their own stamp on the role successfully, but it was Ethel's comic timing and lack of traditional dramatic acting skills that they were writing for. When other actresses come along, forget about the comedy, and play everything like it's a serious drama about mental illness for 2 and a half hours, it doesn't work as well.

R72 is right. Tyne Daly was easily the best of the Roses I've seen. Probably because she remembered Rose has to be more than just a screaming steamroller. There was a lot of warmth and charm to her Rose, but when she wanted to be scary, she was terrifying. Not the world's best singer, but the acting was so good that I thought I might as well be hearing Barbra Streisand.

r53 listen dorothy, click your heels and go back to kansas if you don't like it or ff me but don't clog up the thread with your impotent rage just because you're upset that Ethel was more of a man than you'd ever be.

What was wrong with Lupone's Rose?

Linda Lavin played it with an Irish brogue, which I thought was weird.

[quote]Oh, I suspect the OP has been dead for well over 38 years.

You'd lose

LuPone was a fine Rose. The problem with her was that there wasn't anything very exciting about it. She delivered every big moment as you'd expect her to. There weren't any surprises. with people like Lansbury, Daly, and Peters, there was this sense that they were going to have to prove themselves in the role because they seemed miscast going in.

The real highpoints of that production were Laura Benanti and Boyd Gaines who brought a lot of depth to Louise and Herbie that I hadn't seen before. Benanti really sold the transition from lonely little girl to striptease star effortlessly which is the place most other people have struggled with in the role.

I absolutely adore her renditions of Alexanders Ragtime Band

The best version is by Gracie Fields

R87 Are you joking?

Actually my favorite version is Ethel’s disco version.

R87

No, that is how it's supposed to be sung.

Lucie Arnaz says there were only two people her mother ever differed to.

One was Ethel Merman and the other was Dean Martin.

Jimmy Garrett, who played "Jerry" on "the Lucy Show," says Lucy O'Ball didn't like the children to hang around the set when they weren't in scene but he said when Ethel Merman was on the show, he snuck under the seats to watch her and Lucy came over to him and told them to pay close attention as you'll never see a better performer.

Wasn't Richard Burton appalled at Lucille Ball's acting "method" of shouting with no subtlety? So what she said in R90 makes sense. Somehow, Merman seemed a step above - more self-aware?

[quote] differed to.

Oh, DEAR…

R89 Wasn’t trying to be dismissive, just didn’t know if you were joking or not. I find that version to sound as though the singer is trying too hard to get the notes out, and it is a bit too high pitched for my taste but thanks for sharing.

She had a shit voice not as good or soaring as Vestal Goodman

She was a Republican, but she believed the President always deserved respect, and happily sang “Roses” at JFK’s inaugural gala.

Being a republican in her time meant something different from being a republican today. For example, if you cared about civil rights for African Americans, you were almost forced to be republican at that time.

R81 did you get the “Joey, have you ever…” jokes?

Ethel and Duke Ellington onboard the SS UNITED STATES:

Angela and Julie try to do Merman and they're both way worse than Andrea Martin. Lansbury doesn't even try those weird half notes Merman ruined songs with.

r96. You really have to differentiate between northern Democrats and southern Democrats to make that statement with a straight face. No argument that southern Democrats of the 1930s and 1940s were the faces of racist congressmen in their time.

Why no dirt on the REAL purpose of this thread...

...what was up with her and Ernest Borgnine? They were only married for months? Did he get her preggers and then she aborted?

Andrea

She was a regular on The Love Boat. Mostly she played Gopher's mom. Once she even sang What I Did For Love.

She had an incredible Broadway voice. Perfect for musical theater.

Angela Lansbury differed her Mama Rose by playing her more kooky.

I absolutely adore Ethel Merman. I can't really defend her technically, but I love watching old films and tape of her, and I think she's brilliant on the Gypsy cast album.

No love for her daughter Varla Jean?

Anyone who doubts Merman was right for Mama Rose should seek out the bootleg. I've never heard anyone get as many laughs in the role. And she's not at sea during the dramatic parts.

Adele could take a few tips from Ethel this week

She had the body of a young woman. Too bad she didn't give it back before she stretched it out of shape.

Merman had the kind of body that men like. Too bad one didn't get it instead of her.

She looked like a bag of doorknobs. A sack full of horse shoes.

R105, Jule Styne was brought in mid tour to help Lansbury with the score. He realized she couldn't sing the finale of Rose's Turn as written so he sped it up and made it into a parody of the Baby June numbers. You can hear her try on the London cast record. Listen to her mangle that last note!

Someone posted Lansbury's London replacement, Dolores Gray, to YouTube.

Lucy O'Ball. I like it.

[quote]I absolutely adore Ethel Merman. I can't really defend her technically, but I love watching old films and tape of her, and I think she's brilliant on the Gypsy cast album.

My sentiments exactly. I completely understand why she's not everyone's cup of tea, but I get great pleasure from her singing, particularly on that cast album.

R70 I saw "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" as a kid in a movie theater with my family. I think the scene in which two of the male characters shake Ethel Merman upside down in her low-cut dress and her massive cleavage flops about contributed to my being gay.

Ethel Merman slipping on that banana peel in Mad, Mad World is hilarious.

IMHO, this is Merman's most thrilling filmed musical number (by Harold Arlen and Lew Brown) , from the Eddie Cantor vehicle STRIKE ME PINK (1936) Staged by Robert Alton. Merman gets closeups Garbo would envy.

R14 The porn star with Ethel's face.

It's nice to have a wide variety of celebs - with interesting faces, bodies, personalities, and not just Ken and Barbie dolls in spike heels. dyed hair, hanging on to youth with fillers and lip plumpers.

You go, old girl Ethel. Thanks for the memories.

Ethel Merman - THINK PINK

Merman playing a Dolores Gray role!?

She was offended when the Odd Couple offered her the role of Jack Klugman's aunt. She could have believably played his mother at that point.

So everything's not coming up roses?

On their honeymoon, Ernie asked Ethel to pee on him. Ethel wasn’t having it and was immediately repulsed. A month later they were divorced.

Ethel, urine danger, gurl!

I thought he Dutch Oven'd her.

No, it was the pee, r126. Had ndver hot s chance to Dutch Oven her because after the pee request, there was no way she was getting into bed with him.

She could really make fun of herself

R122 she tells this story in her autobiography. She said "Needless to say, the agent who offered me THAT part wasn't around very long"

It's bad. Part of the story of that episode is Oscar worried that his mother was getting too fat from eating chocolates.

Ethel would have made a good hog caller or auctioneer. That Andrea Martin parody is spot on to the point of being cringey. And yet…the OBC recording of Gypsy is far and away the best of its kind. No one has sung those songs as thrillingly as Merman.

Andrea Martin's much-loved parody is a Cheshire Cat routine -- the mannerisms are front and center, but without the spectacular vocal resources Merman commanded for decades. On her best day, Andrea Martin never sang as well as Merman on her worst.

Every time my grandfather saw Ethel Merman on tv he'd say, big mouth, big pussy.

That’s what Ernie Borgnine said too.

Horrible singer. She had this enormous vibrato that was annoying. It was so huge her head shook when she belted out songs.

That was only in old age, r134. In everything up through GYPSY, her voice was fantastic.

[quote] It was so huge her head shook when she belted out songs.

That is normal for proper singers. It's the same with Pavarotti and ALL those singers who use their own voice to sing.

They're genuine singers compared to all those 'microphone-crooners'.

I always called her "The Moim"

Ethel never hid her Queens accent. It’s hilarious that Annie Oakley has a Queens accent.

[quote] Ethel Merman Was Not Good.....

But she had Vitality!

I'm sure Ivor Novello would have agreed when he was writing about her kind of vivacious stage star in his 1950 musical which was entitled 'Gay's the Word'.

She was SO MUCH herself in a It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World- I she was the best part of the movie.

Threads like this one and the Mary Tyler Moore (rhetorical) questions thread bring out the best DLers.

R14 The porn star with Ethel's face is called K.C.Jaye.

I'm not getting "Ethel Merman" outta him, r142.

I'll show you a man with Ethel's face

[quote]I'm not getting "Ethel Merman" outta him.

Or eighty-eight cents.

^ He looks more like Mitzi Gaynor.

Great clip at R117 . As someone who was a kid in the 70's and 80's, my memories of her are as Gopher's mom on the Love Boat and showing on the occasional variety show or being spoofed by someone. She really did have an incredible voice, even if it is not everyone's choice.

When Merman wrote her autobiography, she included a chapter called "My Marriage to Ernest Borgnine." It consisted of the chapter title at the top followed by a blank page. The publisher's attorneys ripped out everything she wrote but she insisted the blank page remain.

She told friends that on their wedding night, he couldn't get it up. And the next morning he confessed that he was deeply in debt to mob related bookies and wanted her to lend him thousands of dollars to pay off the money. The marriage lasted 30 days, not months.

Meanwhile, here's another Ethel story. The famed conductor Arturo Toscanini adored her. Whenever he was in town for performances with the Philharmonic, he demanded his hosts take him to her latest show, preferably on opening night. He called her "Iron Lungs Merman."

During his lifetime, Toscanini was as famed as an opera conductor as he was as a symphonic conductor. He was Puccini's conductor of choice and conducted the first performances of La Boheme and Turandot. He knew a good theater voice when he heard one and he loved Ethel.

In debut her on Broadway in Girl Crazy, Ethel held a high note for 32 bars while the band played the melody pf I Got Rhythm beneath her. After the opening night performance, composer George Gershwin approached her privately and told her to never, ever have a voice lesson.

And yet... there is no record of Merman singing that...

R151,

A. Because it was a mistake. She held the notes because she forgot the lyrics.

B. In 1930, recordings of musicals were very rare, and usually did not use the original performer or orchestrations. The first actual cast recording was Oklahoma! in 1943.

C. No record producer was going to waste record space on a singer holding a note for 32 bars. It is a novelty that one might want to hear once. It is not something the consumer is going to want to play over and over.

But Merman re-recorded her hits. There was even an "autobiography" album with spoken word parts in the mid 1950s.

R153, see C. above.

If they're going to "waste space" with narration, they could "waste space" with a show off singing moment.

Ethel Merman was known for her salty language, never delivered in a whisper. Once while rehearsing for an appearance on the Loretta Young television show, she was told it would cost her a dollar each time she swore since Young disapproved of foul language.

As she was fighting to get into an ill-fitting gown, Merman shouted: “Oh shit, this damn thing’s too tight.”

Young held out her curse box and said, “Come on Ethel, put a dollar in. You know my rules.” Merman is said to have replied: “Ah, honey, how much will it cost me to tell you to go fuck yourself?”

r156: That story has been told with half a dozen different stars over the years telling Loretta Young to "go fuck yourself".

The version I have always heard was,"Here is $10.00. Go fuck yourself."

Merman's last Broadway performance of Gypsy. Not a lot to add but Merman's performance is still thrilling .

"Don't you dare answer the phone while I'm yelling at you!"

I don't think that line has suited any Rose more than Merman.

Here's why I think La Merman's madam Rose was so great. In 1966, she did Gypsy Rose Lee's local San Francisco talk show. She said words to the effect of "Everyone said Rose was a monster! I never for a second saw her that way. She did what she had to so for her kids!"

So, while Patti, who was wonderful in it, she did an actor's studio type deep dive into Rose's psyche, Ethel was simply on Rose's side. She believed Rose was perfectly correct, and played it that way.

Art Laurents dragged Merman for years, everytime one of his directed revivals hit the boards. "Ethel was dumb," he'd say. Angela (or Tyne, or Patti) was 100% better, he'd suggest. I think he was very wrong, and Sondheim went to his goddamned GRAVE saying Ethel was brilliant in the role.

I'm inclined to agree with Steve.

Just imagine Ethel Merman and Elaine Stritch in the same room.

Ethel was very complimentary towards Stritchie in her 1978 autobiography. "It always makes me smile when I hear how well Elaine is doing here or in London. A great gal with talent to the gills."

I'm sure most here know that she was Ethel's understudy in Call Me Madam, and then Elaine toured extensively with it.

r161: And yet Sondheim likened Merman to a "trained dog act" – meaning that once "Miss Birds-Eye" froze her performance she became mechanical.

R163 I am mystified by the utterly unappealing Stritch.

They're nothing but an unattractive name, voice, appearance, personality etc.

R165 funny I have the exact opposite response to her. I love Elaine, and I think this is a marvelous clip.

[quote] a marvelous clip.

Yes. It's a fabulous song with brilliant counterpoint.

But Stritch's voice is as brassy as Merman's and I just can't take my eyes off her distracting nostrils.

Half of Hollywood wanted to tell Loretta that.

[quote] The publisher's attorneys ripped out everything she wrote but she insisted the blank page remain.

No. The chapter title with the blank page is Ethel’s idea. There was never anything else there that the attorneys ripped out. Ethel never publicly addressed speculation about what happened, and that was her little joke. She never intended to write anything about it.

Listening to Merman after "Gypsy" and missing the essential early pieces seems to give people the sense that they know it all.

You know, the sort of people who don't listen to Bessie Smith either, but they wouldn't dare admit that, would they?

R169 I've heard some vile rumors that I'm sure are fictional. People can be so gross.

Anyway, she seems to have come through it ok. I've also heard friends of both Elaine and Ethel say how impossible they both were in their respective final years. That they increasingly behaved like spoiled children, and alienated many long-term friends in their last few years on Earth.

I think that's so sad. With Stritch, in that documentary she did just before she died, and in an interview were she got pretty testy, I think she understood the end was close, and she was just ANGRY about it. And unfortunately took it out on friends.

May they both continue to have a nice, long rests. They deserve it, for sure.

[quote]Art Laurents

Oh, honey. No. Just, no.

R172 what's wrong?

No one called him “Art,” r161. Close friends called him “Cunt” or “Trash “ while acquaintances used the more formal “bitch.”

Just to clarify a couple of things above, Stritch was Merman's Broadway standby for Call Me Madam. After the show closed in New York, Merman opened the national tour in DC, where the show had played previews and then Stritch took over the rest of the tour. They certainly knew each other.

Stritch was a spoiled child her whole life.

Revues/Follies (such as Ziegfeld)—then Broadway—stars were household names for decades…before and during the movie era. Long before the movies had free agent stars, the theatre did. Where do you think all those movie cliches about Broadway divas originated?

“Girl Crazy” made her star in 1930. “Anything Goes” then made her a huge star. This was the time when Cole Porter was a force on Broadway. “Red, Hot and Blue” continued her run in 1936.

Her first number was Porter’s Down in the Depths on the 90th Floor. It was a torch song (later recorded by Lisa Stansfield) and she was an offbeat choice for the rich and lonely ingenue, except Porter liked her and she was a star and…as has been stated…her ability to maintain clarity while projecting is evident. She and Bob Hope introduced It’s De-lovely in the same show.

The film industry was not a refuge for Broadway stars such as Merman and later Carol Channing…they were relegated to character/novelty roles.

However, the content-hungry television era of the 1950s through mid-1960s gave stars like Merman an outlet —and audiences far larger than tiny Broadway and the shrinking film industry were exposed to her.

Merman had the right talent for the era that made her a star (1930s) and managed to capitalize on that, become a brand, and maintain some form of relevance until she died.

Merman was likely one of those artists who was magic in the theatre but doesn't translate well to recordings.

Years ago, there was an excellent two man show (performed by real life partners) about a couple and their love for Merman.

I saw it in a small theatre in NYC.

When in Gypsy, she lost the Best Actress in a Musical to Mary Martin in Sound of Music.

Carol Burnett was also nominated in Once Upon a Mattress

I must say, this thread has given me a greater appreciation for the Merm. I like that performers who may be an acquired taste to some have their enthusiastic supporters. She's always been kind of (though not entirely) a joke to me, and I've seen the clip of "You're Just in Love" many times, but this time I was struck by the fun she was having. Another thing, I like the way she sings a duet; she's in her own song, letting it run by itself while Donald O'Connor sings his part, but she keeps checking in with him, so that both parts seem like soliloquies that came together.

In that torch song upthread, she had one or two lovely--not just loud-- high notes. So I think you can count me in with R114 et al. I want to listen to the "Gypsy" recording now, though I don't love the show.

Baz Luhrmann has hinted about a movie musical being made about her life. I wonder who he would consider to play her.

R182 Stockard Channing, maybe?

"Not good" is an understatement. Ethel Merman downright sucked.

What a great thread!

When we were kids our Dad used to tease us by telling us he was divorcing our Mother to marry Ethel Merman. We were young and stupid and would begin crying.

!Duh

Why were Donny & Marie obsessed with her?

I went to college with a guy whose (female) partner was Merman’s granddaughter. She was quiet, nice, and bright.

That’s all.

Ethel stumped the panelists on What’s My Line?

She signs in @15:15

Oh good, a few hundred replies of "This person performs in a style I don't know or understand, so it can't possibly have any value to anyone anywhere ever, ever, ever......."

zzzzzzzzzz

Just goes to show you can’t rely on DL as an arbiter of talent. The world made up its mind about Merman years ago: she’s one of the great.

That someone here disagrees is about as effective as pissing into the wind. You can do it, but you’ll look and likely feel stupid if you do.

good at eating pussy

R 18 that was dynamite, what a treat,have never seen her sing-thank you.

Here's Ethel in 1930. She was more than just loud.

R195- She was only 22 years old in that film short

She looks about 35 years old.

What does her age have to do with it? Besides, that's how young women looked (or tried to) back then. We weren't always so obsessed with looking younger than our actual years.

R177 Porter said her voice was like another instrument in the band.

example #1 why she was a star. she is NO looker, she's not a great actor, she can't dance, she really just moves back and forth. but it is undeniable, you're LOOKING at her no matter what, a weird charisma that directors knew

Merman belonged to an era when theaters didn't have microphones and "operatic" voices were common (and often necessary). There was nothing subtle about her, but she had a charisma that was perfect for her time and place and overcame her limitations as an actress. Writers like Irving Berlin knew how to write for her diction and best notes.

She was probably too big a personality for movies, although it worked in ensemble pieces. "There No Business Like Show Business" might have been a good vehicle for her if it had been less cliche ridden.

Go back and look at acting styles during the golden age of Broadway. Not a single actor from back then would get cast in a show today. Not because they were bad or untalented, but because they had a style suited to their own time and place. Take a look at this filming of the original London production of South Pacific with Mary Martin. It's a charming record of a great show -but tell me you don't cringe frequently due to the acting choices/style.

I thought that was a later-career Lesley Gore performing onstage at R20.