Eldergays: Explain/Discuss "Mama" Cass Elliot

Loved her in PufNStuf.

A ham sandwich ate her, and then she died.

She had an awesome voice

She did seem like a lovely person from all accounts.

She was a single mom with a daughter of 6 or 7 when she died. Her daughter later wrote the liner notes to a compilation CD.

Link below is to a piece of "special material" in which she reclaims her identity; she's not a Mama anymore.

Reportedly, she was a great hostess and held frequent parties at her house in Laurel Canyon. Her guests were many of the up and coming music stars of the late 1960s as well as some of the young actors of the day.

Despite Michelle Phillips being the hot girl in the group, Mama Cass was most definitely the star of The Mamas and The Papas and with the biggest voice and charming personality. After the group split up she made a few solo albums that are quite good but are less countercultural than the Mamas and Papas and a little more in line with the singer songwriter scene of the early 70’s, singing songs by the likes of Randy Newman, Laura Nyro, etc. She even did a television special in 1973 that had songs from Pippin, a cover of Wings’ My Love, and a few assorted torch songs/show tunes. She also was a guest on the Julie Andrews Show and Carol Burnett. She was managed by the late great Allan Carr in the early 70’s; if you don’t know who he is, he was a flamboyant caftan wearing elder gay responsible for producing Grease and Can’t Stop The Music. Bruce Vilanch said that Cass and Allan were like sisters together, so she was absolutely a friend of the gays.

Another fun fact, Cass was considered for the role of Miss Marmelstein in I Can Get It For You Wholesale in the early 60’s but the role ended up going to another up and coming talent named Barbra Joan Streisand. But that goes to show that Cass was a versatile singing talent who was comfortable doing Broadway and rock and roll. Her death was truly tragic, IMO.

Tales of times past.

I same this without any jest: I would love Chissy Metz to play her in a biopic.

Reportedly, she was a great hostess

Hostess?

I've said it before, I say it again: It's SO sad she died so young, because she was meant to be a talk-show host. A good one, because she was smart.

Didn't she host some of the wildest parties at her Hollywood Hills home during the '60s?

David Crosby brought Joni Mitchell to a party at Cass Elliott's house in Laurel Canyon in 1968. There, Eric Clapton met Joni for the first time. Photographer Henry Diltz captured that moment.

That's Mama Cass' baby daughter in the foreground.

Whatta song!

She was SPOOKED by the Manson murders, before they knew it was Manson. A drug dealer was living with her, known to have dealt up at Ciello many, many times. And also dealt at Cass' parties. In the days following the murders, this dealer was considered a prime suspect. He was questioned many times by the police, and Cass was worried sick he might tell of dealing drugs out of her house, and to her, and that the press would get hold of it, and she'd be arrested.

The tapes of this dealer being I interviewed by the police are fascinating. He DOES spill the beans, talks about providing drugs to Cass, and her giving them to friends. But, it's clear the police don't care, and are well aware this goes on everywhere in Hollywood.

The wonderful gay coming-of-age comedy BEAUTIFUL THING uses Mama Cass songs as its soundtrack.

[quote]Aside from the band name, why would they market a woman in her late 20s as "Mama" anything?

The group was the MAMA'S and the PAPA's. He was called Papa John, and Mama Michelle and Papa Denny, and Mama Cass in the trade papers. When Michelle was booted out briefly they reported a NEW MAMA called Mama Jill Gibson, the one month mama

She was a real pioneer. She even posed nude fat as she was. A movie about her life would be fascinating.

[quote]The group was the MAMA'S and the PAPA's.

Oh, dear! The Mama's and the Papa's what?

The group was the Mamas and the Papas.

She would be considered just about "average" size in today's world.

[quote]Oh, dear! The Mama's and the Papa's what?

In Southern California, there's a Big Mama's and Papa's Pizzeria chain.

The ham sandwich was innocent. She died of heart failure.

This

And this too:

Just don't let Beanie F. play her in the Ryan Murphy miniseries.

FUCK. That means of course she will. I blame myself for putting the idea out there.

About a year ago, I went on a Mamas & Papas and papas kick.

Watched YouTube clips, bought their greatest hits, read a lot of stuff. The whole group was fascinating. But, Cass was the most fascinating.

She was a wonderful talk show host and was very smart. She used a lot of uppers to keep her weight in check, which I wonder what caused the fatal heart attack .

My favorite songs are Twelve Thirty (used perfected in “Once upon a time” ). and Creeque Alley.

And I believed all of Hollywood was spooked by the Manson murders. Two great documentaries are on Epix: Laurel Canyon and Helter Shelter: an American Myth about that time in America

I was just a child doing this time (late 60s), but find that time period in America fascinating

Aidy Bryant, I mean Come On!

She was reputed to be sexually voracious.

That sandwich wouldn't stand a chance with me.

GOALS!

How could a show in vegas bomb? Those showrooms were tiny. Probably only a few hundred seats back then....

I think she was best utilised in a group setting. Her nasality could get overbearing.

[Quote] How could a show in vegas bomb?

How big was the orchestra? How many dancing boys?

r25: Do you know the multi-episode "Charles Manson's Hollywood" on the You Must Remember This podcast?

It's essential and thoroughly gripping listening.

In that R23 clip big mistake giving Carol the lead singing. And poor Cass does not look well.

If Cass Elliot had only given that ham sandwich to Karen Carpenter they'd both be alive today...

I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress

R33 The host of that podcast is an insufferable cunt. I know this firsthand.

r36: How is she insufferable?

She may be a horror, but her podcast is very good. Her season devoted to "Six Degrees of 'Song of the South'" is probably the best of them.

This is a great song

I KNEW I ALWAYS LOVED YOU GUYS! Even as an elder gay (58), I wish I could go back in time and be in the same room as Mama Cass. She wouldn’t have to sign anything or even sing, but I’d take in a deep breath in believing that I’d just enjoyed the most rarified air. Mama Cass was so earthy and sensuous! If I were a straight male at the time, I might have even been a chubby chaser. Imagine that!

^ "If I were a straight male at the time, I might have even been a chubby chaser. Imagine that! "

I'd rather not... ew

She wouldn’t have to SING! Fucking autocorrect. FUCKITY FUCK FUCK it.

R35, my best friend in the whole world says that line all the time, and it made me smile reading you saying it and being reminded of him.

Listening to "Creeque Alley" always makes me think: "Geez, she's a good sport about all those fat references!"

Mmm... A sandwich!

[quote] I was just a child doing this time (late 60s),

What’d ya get locked up for?

She was a real pioneer, one of the first celebs to have a child out of wedlock. Plus posing nude fat as she was took guts.

Was Joan Crawford not single when she adopted?

^ Joan didn't fuck out of wedlock to get her kids. Big difference

I went through a hardcore Cass Elliot/M&P stage and read much about her and the group’s history. I even went by the building where she died in Mayfair in London. No there’s not a plaque or shrine ad ai didn’t leave a ha, sandwich. As much as I love Cass, the more I listened to the Mamas & the Papas, the more I realised Denny Doherty was equally if not more talented, yet he is most under appreciated member of the group. He has lead vocals in both ‘California Dreamin’ and’ Monday, Monday’, and Cass had unrequited love for him for years. Most people can’t even name him though. My fave songs are ‘Twelve Thirty’ with its great harmonies and ‘Creeque Alley’. Cass didn’t really plan to go to Swarthmore though, it just rhymed for the song.

Self oh dear, Mary, etc. ‘and I didn’t leave a ham sandwich.’

Keith Moon died in the same apartment that she did.

^Ham sandwich?

Wasn't it homophobe Harry Nilsson's place?

She was very jealous of how talented Janis Joplin was.

"Keith Moon died in the same apartment that she did. "

"^Ham sandwich? "

No, Moon Pie

R52, was Nilsson a homophobe?

If you go Google street views and search 1 Curzon Square, London W1J, you can see the place where she died. It had a different address then because the main building entrance has been changed from what I read.

She wore beautiful custom made caftans and died from extreme dieting. She was described as the Gertrude Stein of Laurel Canyon, she was very warm, intelligent, supportive and great company. I love you, mama cass!

She does work better in the group than solo. And she could blow Michelle Philips off stage vocally any day. Jesus, *I* could blow Michelle Philips off stage and I can't sing to save my life.

R13 has already posted my favourite solo Cass song - California Earthquake - one of the finest records ever made.

I love her "Make Your Own Kind of Music." It is like the anthem of being yourself. I've always thought it would've made a great tv theme song.

So... Cass and Michelle came up with the name "The Mamas & the Papas" after they saw a bunch of motorcyclists who referred to themselves as the Papas. But though each of them were indeed called "Papa John," "Mama Michelle," and "Papa Denny," "Mama Cass" stuck much more with her because of her weight. She grew to dislike it when she was breaking off from the rest of the band, and asked after she left she be referred to professionally only as "Cass Elliot."

Equally, she disliked having to sing "Creeque Alley" because of the "No one's getting fat except Mama Cass." Originally she bought John's explanation that by the end of the song, "EVERYONE'S getting fat except Mama Cass," but she still had to humiliate herself every time they sang the song in public, and she grew really unhappy having to sing it.

What was even harder for her was that the writers for her TV appearances on variety shows like Carol Burnett wanted her to do endless jokes about her eating and her fatness. She would try to push back but they would accuse her of being difficult, so usually she just gave in. One time she did not was for her scene in "H.R. Pufnstuf" and she's on the phone with Witchiepoo, and she's in a bathtub filled with fruit--originally the writers wanted it filled with candy, and she didn't want to do it that way, so she asked if they could substitute fruit instead.

It was a completely different era regarding how people talked about obesity.

R36 Do tell! I know her boyfriend is that Rian Johnson. While I enjoy her podcast, I recognize that her woke, SJW perspective can get tiring. You can't put the standards of today on the behaviors of the past.

I've been a Cass Elliot fan my whole life. She had a tremendous voice, and could sing in any style. On talk shows she was funny and intelligent, and very down to earth. Generation after generation rediscovers her, and her music. Has she lived longer she would surely be up there in the Pantheon of all-time greats.

She also made an appearance in Scooby Doo - owning a sweet factory or something.

Cass did bomb in Vegas, but made a triumphant return in 1972 at the Flamingo Hotel. I was there.

Once and for all...The ham sandwich story is a cruel joke and not true. Just stop.

^ Just sayin'...

"Death was ruled accidental at a coroner’s hearing the next day; the post-mortem showed that she died as a result of choking on a sandwich while in bed and from inhaling her own vomit. "

Equal time...

Her obesity directly contributed to her death...

"One of Britain’s leading forensic pathologists at that time said that the autopsy showed Elliot ” …had a heart problem leading to heart failure; there was no sandwich or any other item lodged in her throat or trachea; and she had had very little to eat the day before she died”. A routine drug screening showed no drugs were in her system. The official cause of death was: “Heart failure due to fatty myocardial degeneration due to obesity”.

So, although that one ham sandwich didn't kill her too many over a lifetime did

She was before my time but my mom loved her, and The Mamas & The Papas. I did grow to like one song by her after I saw the British film Beautiful Thing. There's a lovely scene of two young gay boys are discovering their newfound love.

One of my all-time favorite duets, with a great “get out the vote” message.

One of my favorites.

Cass bombed in Las Vegas because she was under the influence and having a reaction, maybe an overdose.

They may have been marketed as Papa John etc, but the ONLY member people used it for was Cass - "Mama Cass." The others were called Deny, John and Michelle. By people I mean the average teen fan.

Who was her babydaddy?

Always loved her, and I liked this song from the trashy 1971 film, “Doctors’ Wives”. YouTube claims it’s from the original soundtrack, but I recall a different version in the film.

Terrific R59.

Besides her numerous variety show appearances, she also guested on late-60/early-70s perennial, “Love American Style”.

I like this one:

She seemed to have a beautiful spirit and LOVED to partay !

Love the clips of the mamas and the papas performing California freakin’ at the Monterey festival with I think Nico and Brian Jones dancing in the audience. Like a time capsule.

California dreamin*

The constant yo-yo dieting and drug abuse damaged her heart and likely caused her death. No wonder she was obsessed over her weight considering how much shit she took for it. John Phillips, in particular, was incredibly cruel to her. He never wanted her in his group to begin with and never let up with the nasty comments. He really was a shitty human being.

R81 Didn't he rape his daughter for years? Or was that a different Phillips?

I adore her voice. It's a shame she died so young, she would have had so much fun as she aged and made aging more fun for others around her.

Didn't she die suckin' on a ham hock bone or something like that?

Another great song from the most fantastic lady of the "now" sound, the inimitable Miss Mama Cass.

I didn't until recent years that Dream a Little Dream of Me was first recorded in the '30s.

^know

She was a fat.

R82 That is what his daughter claimed.

R82 it was consensual.

R26 Aidy Bryant has none of the charm or talent that Mama Cass had

Zilch, nada, zero

This version is pretty phenomenal as well.

I know it's a function of being an eldergay, but I really do miss the variety shows wherein vocalists would just sing -- no pyrotechnics, no drama, no flair, no pointless production values that add nothing. Pure, drama-free singing by people who have the chops and can sell a song. Perfection.

That shorter shag hairdo does her no favors.

Oddly enough, this popped up on my YouTube today. Enjoy!

R95, there's nothing odd about it. Your every keystroke is monitored and merched.

I made it to exactly four seconds of that youtube piece of shite before I closed the screen. The hostess cupcake is past her expiry date and belongs in a central Chinese landfill.

Cass told [italic]Rolling Stone[/italic] what is now acknowledged as a all tale regarding how she joined the group. . She claimed that John Phillips resisted bringing her on board because he didn't think she had enough vocal range. Then, after she supposedly suffered a concussion in a freak accident, she miraculously gained the ability to hit notes that she couldn't hit before.

The real story, however, was that Phillips didn't want her in the group because he thought she was too fat. To let Cass save face and keep him from looking like an asshole, they agreed on the concussion story as the "official" explanation for how she finally got in.

I'll watch the video at R95 later, but does anyone know if Mama Cass' daughter also sings or got into music at all? Obviously, Chynna Phillips did, but I didn't realize Cass had a daughter around the same age as her.

There are two clips on YouTube of her singing with Wilson Phillips. She's good, but clearly doesn't like the limelight.

I preferred Cass's folk song era. The lady's voice had power

Too bad Chynna Phillips mutated into sort of an annoying God-botherer, but consider her parents and upbringing. I enjoyed seeing Cass's daughter Owen in R95's clip, though. Her speaking voice sure sounds like her mom's.

Cass's sister, Leah Kunkel, did a lot of session vocals.

Leah was one of the Coyote Sisters...

Did Leah Kunkel always sing in that deadpan style?

Coyote Sister Renee Armand sang the movie version of "The Morning After."

When I was just a gayling, I got to see Cass perform her nightclub act at Mister Kelly's in Chicago (the act that was recorded for the "Don't Call Me Mama Anymore" LP). Even though she had recently taken a spill and was hobbling around on a cane, she put on a hell of a show. She was charming, self-effacing and funny, with material that ranged from her hits to 40s numbers to more rock-styled material. She had an instant rapport with the audience, even with the drunken businessmen who were there on their expense accounts. She kindly autographed an album I brought (the self-titled one with the George Hurrell cover photo). I still have it, and treasure it.

The good times are coming...

DL favorite Julia Phillips who wrote "You Will Never Eat Lunch In This Town Again" wrote that she loved her some Cass even though Julia claimed to have a natural aversion to fat people. She wrote about the two of them looking to find their friends, Jennifer Salt and her roommate Margot Kidder (according to Julia a sex beast.) on a beach somewhere and they spotted them in the distance and started to walk towards them all the while yelling hello at them. Apparently, Margot and Jennifer yelled back and called them out by their names, even though they were still quite a distance away. Julia writes that Cass turned to her and deadpanned: "Gee, I wonder how they knew it was us!"

Cass had a blank wall in her home that guests would write little things on during a party. The first thing written that started the whole writing on the wall thing was: "Who is Chuck Barris and why is he saying all those things about me?" (Or something like that.)

[quote] who was surely wounded by the constant fat jokes

As long as it didn't keep her from getting lots of hot young dick...

Her solo music is mostly a miss.

R109, Barris produced her TV special and the story was that she once wrote "When is Chuck Barris coming" when he stood her up for a date. Barris is a liar but I believe him when he says he thought he was in love with her.

R112 Barris was fucking crazy, but I could see him or anyone falling in love with her. I think we've all known a heavy person who is just so fucking fun that their personality allows them access to sex with people who normally wouldn't look twice at them. The problem is that isn't true of every or maybe even most fat people.

A mystery guest on the syndicated WML.

She's my best friend in my head even though we weren't even on this planet at the same time. I just know we'd have gotten along famously!

PS. I hope to meet her in heaven, even though I don't believe in heaven.

Miss Elliott, your appointment with R115 is at 3:30.

OP she was very big in the 60s

That was fun, R114, thanks for sharing! Was a kick to see Mama Cass on “What’s My Line” — and Anita Gillette was cute, too!

She looks like Divine.

I'm watching Beautiful Thing right now thanks to this thread! This thread altered the course of my life!

Was surprised that Arlene Francis didn’t trot out her usual question about being in “the legitimate theater”!

Good article!

Cass Elliot is a great example of how fame can be the worst thing that happens to a person.

Recommended reading:

Dream a Little Dream of Me: The Life of Cass Elliot by Eddi Fiegel

Go Where You Wanna Go: The Oral History of The Mamas and The Papas by Matthew Greenwald

She lived more life in those 32 years than most ever will.

Worst thing how? She was fat before she was famous.

If she’d lived she would’ve gone the route of Adele Cadaver, sickly and unhealthy thin with a ton of maquillage.

sang this song as a kid in choir, never knew she started it

Wall E used Make Your Own Kind of Music popular again and Lost also used it.

Cass Elliot is on this episode of “Match Game”, otherwise known for Brett Somer’s charming use of “Fag” as an answer!

[quote] I went through a hardcore Cass Elliot/M&P stage and read much about her and the group’s history.

Any book recommendations? I love biographies.

And thank you, Recommended Reading Troll. Your work does not go unnoticed.

R130 Dig that porno guitar music!

It's been said she had an IQ of 160. Having seen her in interviews, color me dubious. She does seem to have had above average intelligence, but not in that range.

She'd be considered quite slim by todays standards.

Cass got a star on the walk of fame this week. Michelle Phillips gave a speech. Michelle looked good, ironically she’d put on some weight in recent years, but now looks nice and slim again. Some photos here.

That’s awesome, but I can’t believe they included Mama on it. She didn’t like being called that.

They put mama in quotes. I would hope they consulted with daughter Owen and the family and friends about it.

So Mackenzie is back in the fold? She looks like an older Emma Stone in the photo,

R23 Why didn't Carol Burnett have a friend who could tell her she had a terrible singing voice?

Her life would make a good mini series. Who would DL nominate to play her?

IS that MacKenzie? If so, I'm happy they've mended fences. I know it was painful for her.

[quote]Oh, dear! The Mama's and the Papa's what? The group was the Mamas and the Papas.

On some album covers, yes. But at least one had the group's name with apostrophes on it. It's the one where they're all sitting in the bathtub. It's seen in Echo in the Canyon while Michelle talks about how she was boning Danny, then John wrote "Go Where You Wanna Go" about her.

[quote]OP she was very big in the 60s

She was very big for most of her life.

r136, everyone at the Hollywood Walk of fame ceremony was calling her "Mama" Cass.

Love love love TMATP and love Cass. This is a favorite:

Bump for original thread.

Was she a great big fat person?

R147 = Jame "Buffalo Bill" Gumb

[quote] Reportedly, she thought Hostess was great

FTFY

Thanks for starting the thread OP. Looking forward to what others have to say.

Her boyfriend Pic Dawson was an international drug dealer. He was related to someone in the state Department, so he couldn’t get/stay arrested in the US. The Mamas and Papas were busted in the UK when their ship docked in Southampton. The US & UK were hoping they could catch Dawson with drugs outside of US territor6 but alas, it didn’t work out.

Her career really wasn’t that great after Mamas and Papas because Cass Elliot was always a musical theater girl and musical theater was dying. So she joined the roster of famous females who were acceded by middle class housewives. Carol Burnett, Cher, Julie Andrews…they’d all had their day. Cass was trying to become one of them but the musical variety show was also dying.

Cass had lucked out becoming a counterculture star but more than anything she wanted to be a middle of-the-road tv star.

acceded

accepted

I've watched a few of her interviews (Dick Cavett, Mike Douglas, etc) and she seemed like a very intelligent person with a great personality. Gone too soon.

Pic Dawson was briefly a suspect in the Tate murders as “PIG” was written in Tate’s blood on the front door of Cielo Drive and one theory was that it wasn’t “PIG” but “PIC” - not easy getting your penmanship right when writing in blood.

Was it Pic and his Canadian drug dealer partner who were sodomized by Sebring and Frykowski at the Tate house? It was filmed. Another thing Bugliosi toned down so much in Helter Skelter that it barely registered.

It was Billy Doyle who got sodomized..

I didn’t know Bijou Philips was taken away from her parents because they were whacked out on drugs and she was sent to live in NY. Now she’s married to a rapist. Oh god…

Interesting thread. She was known to be heavy into food and drugs. The Chuck Barris story referenced above was told in his autobiography (not the one where he called himself a CIA agent). He said when he produced her TV special, he thought he was in love with her. He said she was always right by his side fighting for everything. He said she was also sweat really badly. He would have his arm around her waist and it would be totally wet. She asked him if he would have loved her if she was skinny. After the pilot was finished, she gave him some laced brownies and he passed out on the beach.

In case R70's link doesn't work, here's what he was talking about. Great duet of John Denver and Cass Elliot singing "Leaving on a Jet Plane," with a "get out and vote" message beforehand.

I think I would have loved living in the1960s and '70s when things were changing for good instead of the other way around.

Chuck Barris was no gentleman.