Patti LuPone or Bernadette Peters?

Bernadette. More versatile.

Bernadette is much easier on the eyes. Patti was hit with a major ugly stick. Too drag queeny for me.

I do like them both but Patti is more bitchy

Patti!

Patti, by far

Sondheim’s muse for the win.

Has Patti been great in anything after Evita?

R7, Anything Goes, Gypsy, Company …

Patti is a crude singer whose voice is in good shape; Bernadette is a better singer whose voice is in tatters.

Patti!

Bernadette, only because I have warm memories of her when she was young.

Saw Patti in Gypsy and was so excited to finally see her live. But I was kind of disappointed with her very weird phrasing of almost all of the songs.

Patti all day every day!

Bernadette is so overrated.

BP is sweet.

Bernadette, now and forever. I enjoy Patti as well, but Bernadette is far more versatile. She has been the queen of musical theater for 40 years.

Patti plays tough broads. Great voice, pays more attention to her overall sound than to her diction, but mostly plays tough broads.

I like Peters but Patti is the most exciting performer I've ever seen.

Both

Ru knows.

Anyone notice how when he speaks, he seems to be imitating Oprah?

I wouldn't want to see Patti's Dot or Bernadette's Evita...

Patti fan

Patricia Ann LuPone

[quote]I wouldn't want to see Patti's Dot or Bernadette's Evita...

Bernadette.

I got rid of a few Patti CDs because her voice was just unpleasant. I did keep her Gypsy, though.

They are both great in the right parts. Unfortunately, the parts that Bernie was best in were quirky ingenues, and that time has sadly passed. Patti has always been a character lead, so she has less problems with doing roles that are right for her. Peters was best in SUNDAY IN THE PARK, DAMES AT SEA and MACK AND MABEL (a part that was absolutely made for her.) She had to work far too hard in GYPSY, and and wasn't right for ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. Patti has played a number of parts that were not in her wheelhouse (A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, PASSION, PAL JOEY...a lady she is not) but she is always fun to watch regardless. GYPSY was perfect for her, and she would have been spectacular, if not for Laurents' truly bizarre direction.

I misread this. I thought it said Patti Labelle! LOL But Patti anyway! LOL

Patti.

She's more capable of subtlety.

HAs Patti sung anything from SITPWG?

Bernadette Peters

Bernadette

Oh please, r23, she was miscast, not stomach churning. It was still a joy to hear her sing those songs.

When I saw La LuPone in Anything Goes, my heart was beating outside my chest. The grandest theatrical experience in my my days. I was 18 years young, and with my college roommate on whom I had a massive crush. We stayed in my dad's company's suite in the Hotel Dorset that night. No, I didn't get any.

Say whatever you will about Patti. But no one, NO. ONE. can do this. She's supernatural here.

How a gay man could not love this is beyond me.

R33, absolutely !

Bernadette!

Equal to Mary Martin or Ethel Merman?

Bernadette in her prime. Follies was painful. Patti is pure ham but I loved her in Anything Goes. Hated her in Gypsy.

Years after seeing her in it, one of the orchestra members from Anything Goes told me that Patti used to flash them her boobs once in a while. And that she was rather fond of cocaine at the time.

Bernadette!

Bernadette. But only as portrayed by Cole Escola.

Judy Garland (PIGSKIN PARADE) is back in Hollywood to confront a monster and the city of stars she left behind. With jokes. Carol Channing, Bernadette Peters star. Bacall, DeSmeagol. Dir. Darling. (2017) USA. 41 minutes and 18 seconds.

This:

I always thought Peters sang like a baby doll. Never a fan at all. Conversely, yes, LuPone is a jackhammer... but that's what you're there to see.

"LuPone delivers a moving, masterful performance, unforgettable for its delicacy. Her introspective gentleness stays with you for days after you leave the theater."

The fuck?

^^ perhaps that writer unknowingly saw an understudy.

Fierce doesn't even BEGIN to describe it!

Someone please wake up R7 from the dead.

I’ll just leave this here. Perfection.

R11 Man, that dance was hard to watch.

Is it true that Bernadette is a lesbian?

A wesbian, pwease!

R47 I was there for that. Amazing evening.

Those six women - those clips will always make me weep.

And two of them are gone *sobs*

When I was a little kid, I remember seeing 'dette on Carol Burnett and Friends many, many times. They did a parody of The Exorcist where she played Regan. Also, Norman Lear kept trying to get something going for her. She played a student Meathead was attracted to when he was teaching some class. I didn't realize she was a Broadway diva until Sunday in the Park with George.

Poor Patti wanted to replace Bernadette in Sunday, but they wouldn't give her the part! When she auditioned, Steve kept saying "No belting!" and she just couldn't comply.

Peters has the better voice. Patti's voice has a harsh tone and is only good for belting, like Ethel Merman.

I saw Bernadette in Follies like 10 times. And I saw Victoria Clark in it 5 times after she replaced her in LA. Vicki Clark NAILED it vocally, in ways Bernadette just couldn't. But, Peters did bring a star quality to it that Clark was missing.

But seeing Victoria Clark and Ron Raines sing those Ben and Sally duets in Los Angeles was fantastic. You could tell that Ron was holding back a bit in NYC so as not to outshine his co-star. In LA, they matched each other and it was wonderful.

That is not to say I don't like Bernadette. I just don't think Follies was the best idea for her in 2011.

I think La LuPone sounds lovely here.

[quote]Patti's voice has a harsh tone and is only good for belting, like Ethel Merman

How very wrong you are, r54.

Let's face it, guys. Patti is the goddamned EARTH motha, and the rest of us are flops.

Patti, Patti, Patti. No contest--based on fun personality rather than talent. Actually think Peters is more talented because Patti pretty one-note in role type.

Patti was a fantastic actress in her Juilliard days

She stole my look.

Some bootleg footage of Patti and Mandy. This has always been one of my favorite tunes from this show.

And what JUST got announced today?

This.

R57 Love it so much.

at the laundromat

Patti hated doing that show, but she loved Kellie Martin. She REALLY hated Bill Smitrovitch, who played her husband. So, if she does appear, I assume it will be sans Bill.

R65 I can't believe Patti is billed THIRD there!

I thought for a second the one younger curly haired man (the one who uses the machine that summons her) was her brother Robert. He was on Guiding Light for years and kinda looks similar to that actor.

R65, love Mullet-era Patti

something about Patti has always gotten on my nerves

Tough call, for me at least. BP has a slight edge cause of her pet love.

Why did Pattykins hate doing Life Goes On? That was such an easy gig for her.

Loving the love for LuPone here

Patti because she rocks the boat. Bernadette is as boring as warm oatmeal.

R71 she just didn't get along with anyone. She didn't like the second Paige. Didn't like Bill, didn't like the showrunner, ect. She was glad when Chad Lowe kinda took over the show, and she appeared less and less.

I've seen them both in performance: Patti as Evita, and also as Vera Simpson in "Pal Joey" at Encores; Bernadette as Sally Durant in "Follies." So I saw both of them perform when they were over the hill, but Patti also at her peak.

Patti was mushmouthed in both productions, but her voice is incredibly powerful. She was electrifying as Evita (which was a perfect part for her in that regard), but not much of an actress as Vera. Bernadette had a lovely voice, and could act well, but did not have enough presence as Sally.

I still find it fascinating that Bernadette once told an interviewer when she was younger her dream role was Pat Nixon, whom she seems nothing like either physically or emotionally.

R75 interesting she played Tammy Faye.

Thanks for that video R62! I saw the original Evita, and clearly remember this number. Chilling. LuPone, with no doubts, was worthy to receive the Tony.

How the hell did she sustain singing that beautiful, albeit torturous score, night after night.

R69 - “something about Patti has always gotten on my nerves”

We know the feeling R69. It’s the same way we feel about your punctuation skills.

[quote] How the hell did she sustain singing that beautiful, albeit torturous score, night after night.

She never did matinees!

Patti was meant to get on your nerves, she was vital, she was LIVING!

Bernadette no question. Beautiful, so kind and that voice. And never had children, only adopted dogs, which wins her extra points for me.

Love Patti too but I pick Bernadette.

Patti talks about her nightclub act at Les Mouches around 1979-1980. She would finish her Saturday night show of Evita and take a cab down to Les Mouches, a multi floored disco. What a night that could be had; go see Evita, have an after show with Patti, and then continue dancing after that. During that sweet spot of the end of disco and before AIDS

The title makes me hope there will be a cage-match... to the death!

They're both so different, but I give Bernadette the edge for having a little bit more range. She's moved me more and she's funnier than Patti when she wants to be.

Disco, r82?

And of course...

They definitely wouldn't be competing for the same roles. Bernadette was spectacular and beautiful doing Send In the Clowns in ALNM on YouTube. One thousand times better than CZJ.

Desiree is a role I can't imagine Patti doing. I know she has and I've seen video, but I still can't wrap my head around her playing that role. Bernadette was very good when she played it. Funny, charming, and sexy.

R77 - “ How the hell did she sustain singing that beautiful, albeit torturous score, night after night.”

R79 - “She never did matinees!”

Maybe so, but I dare any diva worth their salt to try sing that particular show even 6 times a week. Her vocals were written in the stratosphere. Fucking amazing.

Bernadette. Better actress and a more delightful performer.

But they are both STAHS.

I mean c'mon, who the hell else are we going to cast in Baby Jane the Musical?

Bernie! Always Bernie!

Patti and Bernadette were on Will and Grace. Discuss!

Patti with Lana Turner backstage after Evita

Did Lana ask Patti why Rice used Bacall's name but not hers?

Picture it! The star studded opening night of Evita.

Betty Bacall is in the 4th row. When Patti comes to the "Lauren Bacall me" line, she looks DIRECTLY at Miss Bacall, and practically growls the line, and the audience goes NUTS.

It's all right here. Gay heaven.

R96 fabulous! Thanks for sharing

R12 - “ Saw Patti in Gypsy and was so excited to finally see her live. But I was kind of disappointed with her very weird phrasing of almost all of the songs.”

Why don’t you sing the score for us R12, and maybe we’ll hand YOU a Tony. 😳

I loved her in Gypsy. She asked to entertain me, I agreed and she did.

I thought Patti gave a very lazy performance in GYPSY. There was nothing surprising or really even interesting about it. Of course, she had the misfortune of Laurents directing her. He probably gave her line readings.

I know someone who was in Gypsy and said Patti was a total cunt to work with on it.

Trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrigger!

R100 - “There was nothing surprising or really even interesting about it.”

With the exception of her WINNING the Tony . So much for your gifted and keen ability to observe and critique..

R100 - …” I know someone who…, “

Ahhh, you know someone… congratulations. Thanks for your worthless anecdotal tale.

Go soak your head in a tub of ice water.

[quote] They definitely wouldn't be competing for the same roles.

You mean except for Momma Rose.

Bernadette in her prime had a beautiful, nuanced, controlled voice you could recognize anywhere.

Patti is 49 years old here. I saw her perform this engagement at Lincoln Center 1998. Her vocals during the bridge are breathtaking. She’s got it. At any age. Always has.

Don't you mean: WHOM do you prefer? Peasant,

They are both old Italian women. Have each one make a lasagna for me and I will let you know which one I prefer.

Bernadette.

R107, this is R105 here. True story. She had the CD signing to the “Matters of the Heart” concert across the street from Lincoln Center, at Barnes and Noble. 1998

The line at B&N was wrapped around the building. I finally get up to her. She’s wearing a beautiful black dress/ white pearls. Stunning. Tits for days. Hair/ makeup - perfect.

She’s from Long Island, so am I. I did regional theater there, so did she. She was Northport, I was Sayville. She’s about 3 years older than I; our paths never crossed, despite Long Island theater being a small world….

She’s Italian, so am I. So, we’re gabbing it up (quickly), and I told her, honey, I would’ve loved to have met and performed with you, let’s make a Sunday sauce! I’ll bring the tomatoes and the semolina bread.

She screamed with laughter. She was gracious, stared me right in the eye, and said “sure”!!, in a powerhouse belting voice, that shook the building. Good times.

R109 Great story! I find the stories about her being gracious and warm and funny much more believable than the anecdotes about her being a cunt.

R110, this is R105 &109 again. Another true story. She can be high strung.

We’ll, who can blame any of these leads? They have to carry a 2000 seat theater, 8 nights a week. Please. The pressure must be immense…

Here goes….I’m now living in Manhattan. A dear friend managed a cyber Internet café on 49th near 8th Avenue.

Friend tells me that this pint-sized woman comes flying into the café acting like a chicken without a head; and breathlessly, orders a chicken salad sandwich to go; “Immediately!!” Lol…

Friend is unfazed, and nonchalantly prepares her order. He has no idea it’s LuPone. Only that this woman is a lunatic…. Never heard of her… 😳

Friend says she’s pacing back-and-forth, then starts tapping her fingers on the counter, blah blah blah… lol again.

Turns out she was in rehearsals next door at the Eugene O’Neill theater for “Sweeney Todd” (2005). Friend said she acted like she had no time for anything or anybody! Hysterical.

Sometime afterwards, friend sees a picture of her in some newspaper, and tells me, OMG it’s her! The crazy chicken lady! I died when he told me the story…

Subsequently, I took him to see the show, and he loved it. But to this day, he think she’s a looney tune, but a very gifted looney tune. 😂

R111, that is pretty great. She does seem like a looney tune yes, but I think she wouldn’t deny being a looney tune, so I tend to give her a pass for her quirks. It’s not like she’s Faye Dunaway!

The difference between LuPone and Dunaway is there's crazy lady stories that show her to be a lot of fun. Dunaway is unrelentingly awful.

I'm sure this has been mentioned many times, but Patti's enunciation is atrocious. I like her voice, but when she starts belting it is hard to distinguish words. Saw her in the 2005 Sweeney Todd revival (which I didn't care for), and it felt like she was mumbling through it. Had I not been very familiar with the show already, I would probably have been confused about what she was mumbling (or screaming) about.

Bernadette I last saw in the Follies revival around 10 years ago, so I am not sure what state her voice is in now. She was fine, but definitely not the best Sally Durant I have heard or seen. Definitely some enunciation issues with her as well, but not quite as bad as Patti.

Dolores Gray or Susan Johnson?

R114, have you ever heard this Forbidden Broadway parody of Patti? I’m a huge fan of hers but I understand the diction issues. Anyway I think this parody is hilarious

R96. That was fabulous! I’ve always loved ‘Evita’ but that brought tears.

Bernadette's 'Sondheim Etc.' album changed my life.

For which I'll be forever grateful.

R109 I met her in London signing Matter of the Heart cds. She had two weeks run at the Donmare. I loved the concert by the way. The signing was in a shop which sold theater music. Closed for many years but was my favorite shop. I don’t remember its name. There was a very long line long before it began. I remember when she walked in passing us how delighted and happy she looked because so many had come. We musical boys naturally applauded her then and there in the street. She was very lovely funny and nice.

Was it Dress Circle? I found some good things there on my trips to London.

Patti schools Bernadette who is sitting on stage next to her.

R117 here she is on closing night doing the same song. She'd picked up the pace quite a bit. Haha.

I saw Patti in Evita and Bernadette in Sunday. Evita's a killer role, so props to Patti, but I preferred Bernadette. She was just touching and luminous. Better actress and star quality.

R123 You oughta know whatcha gonna get in me! Just a little touch of, Just a little touch of, Argentina's brand of STAR QUALITYYYYYAAHH!!

Having grown up in the tri-state area, I must have seen this ad 5,000 times between the ages of 9 and 12. It ran constantly.

Here is La Paige doing Rainbow High. Oh, how I wish there was a version of this quality of Patti doing it in costume with the choreography. The tempo of the song is dirge like compared to Broadway, but Elaine is pretty damn fierce herself.

Elaine Paige's voice is so bland and forgettable.

R127 I'm a massive PattiFan, but I really disagree with you. Elaine is fantastic, I think.

More Paige greatness.

R120 Yes! Always lots of gays going through cast recordings souvenir brochures etc.

I have been trying to figure out why people think Elaine Paige is great for a while now so I appreciate the links to her work

I like Judy Kuhn's voice more but nobody does "Nobody's Side" better than Elaine.

Bernadette has charm.

Patti spoke about Miss Lady G. Others have followed.

Patti trashed Gaga's acting?

R128, That's a forgettable performance. It can't hold a candle to Streisand's performance of the song.

R125, they label the commercial 1979, but the show opened in New York in the spring of 1980.

Saw Evita before the 1980 Tonys, then again a few months later. I had been going to theater for years and years hoping to someday witness that electric star quality they said people like Streisand had. That night in 1980 I finally saw it.

The cast recording was 1979 so they probably mislabelled based on that.

R137 WOW. I envy you.

I will always love Patti for this.

R140 ....and this.

[quote]Patti LuPone or Bernadette Peters?

Personally, I have always preferred Bea Arthur.

R121, Ladies... is a much bigger song so of course it's going to get a bigger reaction. Do you really want to see Patti try to convincingly pull off Not a Day Goes By?! Patti couldn't portray that sort of vulnerability at a funeral.

She did a nice job of vulnerability, r143, as Rosamund in The Robber Bridegroom in Saratoga Springs.

R143 I think Patti can do vulnerability, but I think belters are where she truly shines the most

[quote]they label the commercial 1979, but the show opened in New York in the spring of 1980

No it didn't. EVITA opened September 25, 1979 - it's easily verifiable. As for the cast album, it was recorded toward the end of the LA run, which was the first stop on the out of town tryout. That was a mistake. They should have waited till the end of the SF run, and done it at Fantasy studios in Berkeley.

Bernadette.

Petty LuPony is a shrieking fishwife and certified nut job who screams out every lyric.

What do you mean by “should have waited” R146? What do you think was the effect by recording the album in LA vs SF?

Once a year I will listen to Peters' 1997 album live at Carnegie Hall. No it's not supreme artistry but she achieves a solo concert night very well. A couple times a year I listen to her in some Sondheim soundtracks. I have never listened to a LuPone concert album. How is Patti at Les Mouches?

Cleo Sings Sondheim. Accept no substitutes.

R148, to give the cast more time to settle into their roles. Patti notably was not on top of it in LA. She was having trouble nailing “Buenos Aires,” falling during several performances including opening night. After her tepid LA reviews, she had to deal with all the rumors that Hal was trying to get AEA to let him bring Elaine over to replace her (he maintained that wasn’t true, but that didn’t stop the gossip).

Why didn't he bring Elaine over to take over once Patti left?

I guess Elaine never performed the OBC tempos?

I heard that when Ken Russell was attached to direct the Evita movie adaptation in the 80’s, he screen tested Liza Minnelli as Eva. However, Robert Stigwood refused to accept anyone but Elaine Paige at that time so be rejected her. Don’t know if it’s true though.

The Boyfriend was a flop. I doubt anyone was going to take the gamble again on Ken Russell.

AEA wouldn’t approve her, r152. Plus he had very good luck with the LA cast’s Evas and alternates (the LA Shubert run opened about four months after the NYC opening). Loni Ackerman, Valerie Perri, Derin Altay, Flo Lacey - they all did stints in NYC after the LA company close.

It's true, r154. I'm *still* waiting for the screen test to surface somewhere.

R152 I don't think Paige would've wanted to be a replacement at that time. Patti is massive in London, but Elaine was never really given a chance on Broadway. I know she did Sunset Blvd on Broadway for a few months. Her only other Broadway credit was Follies in 2011, which I got to see her in 10 times.

One night, Elaine was out of Follies and Flo Lacey went on in her stead. Kind of a larger woman, at this point.

Did anyone here see a matinee with Teri Klausner as Eva?

[Quote] Patti is massive in London

No she's not. "Master Class" was a flop. And the couldn't drum up interest in a transfer of her "GYPSY." Even Sondheim himself told Patti on Graham Norton's radio show that she does not put bums on seats.

*And they couldn't

Patti, Elana, and Elaine.

R160

And? I suppose Gavin Creel is massive in London too...

R160

atti is such a huge bitch, you can't help but love her

R160 You're so full of shit. Listen to the ovation when she comes out. London adores the woman. It's bizarre that you would use her role in a straight play from 30 years ago to refute my claim.

Now go away before someone drops a house on YOU.

Patti is a hard sell. She has said it herself.

In any case, my point really was that Patti was bigger in the West End than Elaine Paige ever was on Broadway. Which is too bad. They should've let her transfer with Chess. Maybe it would've fared better.

And that point is erroneous.

R169 I agree with R170. By the way Kristina från Duvemåla is so much better than Chess. Guldet blev till sand was a massive hit in Sweden. Peter Jöback performed it to perfection. He is openly gay and married with children.

Hahahahahaha. R170 you are a trip. Patti has been nominated for several Olivier awards. And she's won at least 2 that I'm aware of. She's starred in several West End productions. Elaine Paige has had zero point zero Tony nominations, and has had very limited exposure on Broadway. I love Elaine Paige, I wish there had been more opportunities for her on Broadway. But it didn't happen. Patti is a known and welcome figure on the West End. Elaine Paige is virtually unknown on Broadway.

Oh sorry, I meant R170 I agree with R169.

R171 Really? By what measure is Elaine Paige bigger on Broadway than Patti LuPone is in the West End?

R173 Ok gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

R174 In no way. I made a mistake and corrected it. Patti is a name in West End.

[quote]Maybe it would've fared better.

Nah, r169.

R176 Got it.

Is that Swedish musical by the ABBA guys?

Petty LuPony's stories about why she "turned down" the part of Fantine in the Broadway transfer of Les Miserables are so full of shit. She claims she wanted to preserve the memory of a perfect production in London and didn't want the memory to be ruined by playing the part on Broadway.

Did she play Reno Sweeney in Anything Goes as a blowsy fag hag?

R177 A cheesy '80s music video really doesn't give much on an idea what the musical was like, does it?

Anyway, the London recording is vastly superior to the American version. I also like the more recent one they did.

R179 Really? What have you heard? Did they just not like her, so they didn't use her for Broadway?

David Carroll sounded awful and whiny on the Broadway album of Chess.

Wouldn't they have wanted Patti for her Tony-winning name value? I assume Patti didn't want to come back to Broadway in a supporting role.

It's a spurious point to make. Patti working more in the West End than Elaine working on Broadway does not mean that Patti is or has ever been massive in London. Take off your stan goggles.

Bernadette Peters has a shrill voice and personality - like a little chihuahua.

The problem is that a lot of Chess *is* whiny, r182. It really isn't a very compelling story even with some swell anthems.

^and power ballads

R181, no one has ever said that the producers didn’t want Patti for Les Miz on Broadway. If the person who insinuates Patti is full of it can prove otherwise, we’d be happy to see.

Bernadette by a mile.

I can't be the only one who feels that Patti is nearly always off key in her singing? I got her Gypsy soundtrack and her: "I had a dreeeeeeeeeeam" made my ears hurt.

R184 Fuck off with your stupid semantics and word games. I said my main point was that Patti was bigger in London than Elaine was in NY. You said that point was wrong. You are CLEARLY wrong about that.

Now go be wrong somewhere else.

R186 I feel like it's the case with many of those British musicals of the '70s and '80s that started off as concept albums. A collection of great songs, but in the end they don't really hang together story-wise. So, you just go to hear the music. This was the case with Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita, and Chess.

And Follies.

JCS and Evita have compelling storylines, r191.

R178 Yes. Benny and Björn wrote it based on series of novel of Swedish migration to US. It opened in Malmö in 1995 transfered to Gothenburg and finally to Stockholm. It ran for five years and was seen by over five million people.

Correction to R194 was seen by over a million people

R194 OH wow. I'll check it out. Is there a version with English lyrics?

I found this video of the OBC of Chess on YouTube. Pretty bad. The staging of Nobody's on Nobody's side is atrocious.

Both are fabulous. Bernadette has (had?) the lovelier voice of the two.

R191 Oh I know. I'm just saying, for me anyway, the storytelling is lacking. Like with Evita- it seems to be to be describing events, largely, rather than showing them. When I saw it live, it felt kinda hollow or something. But I love the music, of course.

I don't know, for me the albums are better albums than the plays are plays.

R198, I agree about Chess. It has been reconfigured for both alb and stage many times, but none of the changes has ever been truly satisfying. The original concept album with Elaine is still the best recording, but it is missing songs that were added to the show later. No one has ever really put together a perfect version of it, but maybe if they keep fiddling with it someday it will happen.

R168 - “ Patti is a hard sell. She has said it herself.”

Hey, R168! Why don’t you go find R12 and R100, and collectively go soak your dizzy heads in a tub of ice water.

LuPone is one of the most accomplished (2 Tonys), and successful Broadway performers in the business. I’ll give you a hard sell, you obtuse Queen. Do you research Mary, before you make a further fool of yourself.

Patti has said that herself. Take it up with her.

[Quote] No. It’s interesting. I’m a hard sell, Alec. I’ve been cut at the studio level on auditions in California, because they didn’t believe I was—I could do this or that. It’s like I’m a hard sell in California. I’m a hard sell in movies. I’m a hard sell in T.V. You know? I’m always a hard sell. I could tell you a story right now, but I can’t. I’ve been asked to audition for a musical, and it’s 25 years since I’ve auditioned for a musical. When does it stop?

R200 Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Quote] I’ll give you a hard sell, you obtuse Queen. Do you research Mary, before you make a further fool of yourself.

You don't know LuPone better than she does. See the quote above.

R201 - Patti has said that herself. Take it up with her.“

Link Mary, to her statement, or it’s all anecdotal or in your mind.

She may very well have said it, however, in any event, I know what you were trying to do. You were trying to use that statement as an angle to condescend. Cheap shot. Go find your friends upthread, and that tub of ice water.

R107 honestly until you mentioned them being Italian, I didn’t realize they were. I’ve always assumed Patti was Jewish and that Peters was Irish.

[Quote] You were trying to use that statement as an angle to condescend. Cheap shot.

Please. Someone upthread claimed that Patti LuPone is massive in London. You can praise someone without making up lies.

What’s the lie R207?

Bernadette's voice makes me want to hurl.

[Quote] What’s the lie

Patti LuPone is not massive in London. She's arguable not even massive in New York. She doesn't sell tickets.

*arguably

This should have been a poll and included Bette Midler.

These days Patti is massive everywhere. It’s amazing how fat she’s gotten, while Bernadette has maintained her tiny figure.

What is very different about both of them is that younger generations seem to really respond to Patti. She has a fairly good understanding of social media and the younger theatre kids just worship her. I do not really see that happening with Bernadette. The eldergays on here (like me) have a stronger sense of both of them in terms of their career and therefore we have a larger perspective. But when it comes to the 21st century, there is no doubt that Patti is kind of experiencing a resurgence!

Who can forget?

[quote]She has a fairly good understanding of social media ... when it comes to the 21st century, there is no doubt that Patti is kind of experiencing a resurgence!

As far as social media goes, forget it. Patti made a big show of joining Twitter, and a few months later claimed she just didn't have the time to pay attention to it. She tweets a little more since Company started, but not much. Her scorecard with IG is even worse.

Nah, she was a huge early internet star of the pandemic with her tours of her basement and stuff. She was awesome in those months.

Then the novelty wore off, and it was back to ignoring her social media accounts.

Enjoy Patti clodhopping her way through the Buenos Aires choreography

Loni Ackerman, a real dancer, showing it off in LA.

[Quote] she was a huge early internet star of the pandemic

The hyperbole.

Well you old queens have spent 90% of this thread on LuPone, and other women, not Peters. I don't get it. Her diva wattage never shined on me. I don't mind her but, whatever.

And yet Bernie got everything and more of what Patti requested to play The Witch in "Into The Woods." Diva wattage they called it, I guess.

Forgive me, R222, but I'm gonna guess you've never seen La LuPone live on stage. You can't really get her unless you see her in person. I fell for her when I saw her in Anything Goes. I became a lifelong fan the minute she started singing.

They're both so different. All you have to do is look at how they played the roles they shared. They both did Annie Oakley, Rose, and Desiree and they each put their spin on it for better or worse. Annie and Rose were better fits for Patti, but there was something interesting about seeing someone like Bernadette take on those roles, especially Rose. Bernadette was the superior Desiree by far. That role just didn't fit Patti at all.

Un fucking denialbe. Gotdamn.

Sure. And it's also a treacly but enjoyable light operetta tune from a corny musical.

Patti never met a word she couldn't mangle or a note she couldn't sing flat.

Patti is lucky that Barbra wasn't interested in recording songs about that fascist, because she would have sung the definitive version of Don't Cry for Me Argentina, just as she did with Memory and Send in the Clowns.

Holy crap it's incredible the stuff that turns up on YouTube. The entire West End original production of Chess! And it's been there for 4 years and I never came across.

With La Paige and Murray Head.

Vastly different from the Broadway production.

I like Betty Buckley's Memory much better than Streisand's. And Elaine Paige's version, too.

Pretty girl...

I thought Bernie was a brilliant Rose in Gypsy.

It’s too bad Patti’s too old for Rose now. It would be interesting to see what she could do without Laurents breathing down her neck.

Kristen Chenoweth said that she is playing Rose in Gypsy on Broadway next.

R229 needs meds

R235 Hahaha I'm so glad someone said it! I was thinking it.

I think it's fine to come on a thread like this an express an opposing opinion. "I dislike B's voice and acting because I saw her once and she walked through her performance, and I don't like her vibrato." I welcome and enjoy reading those posts about people I like or don't like. It gives me a more well-rounded idea of how that person is seen, ideally.

However, it seems there's at least one person on her hell bent on making people feel badly, or wrong, or liking the singers they happen to like. That's just weird. And then they start making semantic, gaslight-ish statements like "You said A was HUGE in Los Angeles, but she did a TV show there in 1994 that was cancelled within two months, so she's not huge, or more popular than Kristie Alley" It's just nuts. And pointless.

Anyway, YES, I totally agree! People like that make Datalounge, and life in general, less fun.

Again, you fall back on hyperbole to "disprove" a reasonable argument.

[Quote] Kristen Chenoweth said that she is playing Rose in Gypsy on Broadway next.

Link?

Both need shaping...

Bernie was homely before she settled on the ringlets look.

Patti did do Rose without Arthur at Ravinia. It was a limited rehearsal schedule, so there's no telling what she'd have done after a few more performances under her belt but it was an almost completely different Rose than the one she played on Broadway. More vulnerable if I recall. I liked it.

R228 - “ Patti never met a word she couldn't mangle or a note she couldn't sing flat.”

R228, get thee to an audiologist, immediately, if not sooner. Your hearing is fucked, dear. Please help yourself to listen to the attached videos in this thread.

Although, I’ll agree that her vowel and consonant diction can be somewhat overkill. But (and speaking as a long time stage performer myself), I’d rather hear/ work with an actor who over annunciates, than one who is difficult to hear/ understand, and has to be constantly coached by the director. It’s a pain in the ass to deal with, not only for the actors, but the audience as well.

The bottom line; LuPone is award winning perfection.

You GO, R242!

Love you too PattiFan@ R243, and all of your posts. ❤️

The below are mine, and I stand by every word.

I especially loved our interaction back in the day, at Barnes & Noble during the signing of her “Matters of the Heart CD.

She is a rip!!

R78

R89

R98

R102

R105

R109

R111

R200

R205

R242

Patti's our Ethel and Bernadette's our Mary. I'm not choosing.

R244 Why thank you, kind sir! And thanks for all your wonderful back up and support! You're awesome and I love your stories.

R245 I get it. And just to be clear, I did not make this thread. I don't like pitting artists of any kind against each other. There is no question that there are things Bernadette can do that Patti can't do. And there are things Patti can do that Bernadette can't do. They're both super talented, both dedicated to their craft. Have had very different kinds of careers.

Sadly, I've only seen Peters in Follies and Hello Dolly. I was too young for SITPWG. And just didn't get to see Into the Woods. But I've really loved her cast album of Song and Dance, and her rendition of Not a Days Goes By. And her Move On with Mandy at Steve's 80th was simply stunning.

It just so happens that I saw La LuPone in Anything Goes in 1988 and she blew me away. Greatest performance I've ever seen. My heart was beating out of my chest. Every time I go to see her live now, I'm chasing that dragon.

Listen to yourself, PattiFan. You excoriated someone else for comments about not liking LuPone, yet you do the exact same thing to anyone who prefers Peters.

The truth is both women are musical theatre superstars, in the direct line of Merman & Martin. They’re both in their 70s now, but no one who follows them - Audra, Kelli, Sutton, all late 40s & early 50s - has the magic that LuPone & Peters have. (Audra comes closest). Of course, we’ve lost two of the best of the stars in their 50s in the last couple of years.

R245

I love that Betty Buckley was on Broadway continuously starting in 1982 through 1988, doing several different, varied roles. Mostly very successfully.

She starts rehearsals for Cats in the spring of 1982. She stays until spring of 1984.

She takes a little time off, and returns in the spring of 1985 for the NY Shakespeare production of The Mystery of Drood, which transfers to Broadway. She exits that in June of 1986.

After doing a movie, she returns shortly after that to take over for Bernadette in Song & Dance in October of 1986.

Right after that, she started to workshop Into the Woods, which didn't work out. But soon after she was in Carrie, which opens and closes in June of 1988.

A pretty damn impressive run, I must say. After 1988 she's gone for several years until she replaces Glenn in Sunset. I wonder if there was some reason for her streak stopping suddenly in 1988? Anyone know?

R247 Never did I say a single bad thing about anyone preferring Bernadette Peters. Not once. Because I don't think anything bad about anyone liking her. Why do you think I did?

R250 is me btw. R247 that is such a blatantly untrue statement. It's bizarre that you would say it.

R247 NOR did I say anything bad about anyone not liking Patti LuPone! Believe me, I know she's not everyone's cup of tea. I've been hearing it for 30 years. I only have an issue with people who seem angry or upset over anyone liking anyone. That's weird to me.

Bernadette was completely miscast in AGYG but I liked her in Gypsy. The night I saw her her voice was fortunately in decent shape and I thought she gave a very different interpretation of Rose than the usual bulldozer-like versions we've come to associate with the character.

A friend of mine saw Patti as well as Bernadette in the role and liked them both. She explained how Patti's take was very different than Bernadette's with her theory about how Gypsy, in spite of their differences, always went back to Mama.

My friend's interpretation was that Gypsy would go back to Patti's Mama because she was terrified of her while she would return to Bernadette's Mama because she felt sorry for her.

Loved Bernadette in her earlier days, but I still believe she had work done early on to shave down that jawline, as back then she was approaching Joan Sutherland territory.

R242, oh, dear!

R249. Betty Buckley walked into an open audition for ‘1776’ on her first day in New York and was cast as Thomas Jefferson’s wife

I'm a Patti fan too, I'd buy an expensive ticket to see her in any show. However, I do not follow her around, worship at her feet, and go ballistic when people say they don't like her. Am I normal?

Well, r254, you just go ahead and believe what you want to believe...

It takes all kinds R257. Just be you, and enjoy whomever you like, as you like.

There are trolls out there who just shoot from the hip, and say things about performers without substance, or examples why they feel negatively towards them. They are in their tribe, the most annoying, need to be put in their place, and then promptly dismissed. In other words, back up your claim, show me your receipts. Don’t just say; “they suck”. What is anyone supposed to do with that kind of a comment?

Scroll on by? If you're the triggered type, DL really isn't for you.

I wonder if Patti will ever be #METOOed for exposing herself at work.

The Ethel Merman and Mary Martin comparisons are pretty spot on. Merman, much like LuPone, had a limited range, but within that range, no one was better. Martin had a slightly wider range of roles to play and was more versatile like Peters.

I can't think of anyone in their 20's to 50's now who could easily step into LuPone and Peters' shoes when they stop performing. Kristen Chenoweth perhaps? Sutton Foster? Those seem to be the best we've got. Audra is great, but she's not good at the brassy broad roles.

Rachel York is quite good. She was more suited to Reno than Foster.

I wouldn't want to see Ethel's Maria, Peter Pan or Nellie Forbush, r262. While Mary could certainly do some of Ethel's roles, I think Rose is safely Ethel's. Mary would have given it a Bernadette approach, I would assume, but Rose's Turn and Everything's Coming up Roses are so much more powerful with Ethel's belt.

R257 I don't either. Show me where I ever "went ballistic" over anything here. As I said, I've known for years that there are people who can't stand Patti, and that's fine. I also love Betty Buckley and Bernadette Peters.

PattiFan, why do you think every comment is about you?

[quote]get thee to an audiologist, immediately, if not sooner. Your hearing is fucked, dear.

Sorry, but I agree with that other poster (as someone who has had their ears checked recently and has perfect hearing, plus perfect pitch). Patti is routinely flat. She just is.

Neither. Both dogs.

R266 Uh, gee...

"Listen to yourself, PattiFan. You excoriated someone else for comments about not liking LuPone, yet you do the exact same thing to anyone who prefers Peters."

This is completely untrue.

Patti peaked during the run of Evita, and it's been downhill for her ever since. She had such potential back then and could have had a mainstream career on the level of Liza, IMO. She became too strident and bitter. She's not a naturally likable person and apparently had a drug problem at the time which made it even worse. Her voice became harsh after Evita, as well. She couldn't touch the upper belt that Betty Buckley had at the time.

Bernadette's voice actually improved in every way as she aged.

If Liza had come up at the turn of the '80s she wouldn't have had the career of Liza.

[Quote] Patti is routinely flat. She just is.

I don't hear it.

R267 - “Sorry, but I agree with that other poster (as someone who has had their ears checked recently and has perfect hearing, plus perfect pitch). Patti is routinely flat. She just is.”

These are your receipts to prove LuPone sings flat? A hearing test, and another poster who agrees with you, and your non-described summary; “She just is”?

You’re exhausting. Exhausting, and laughable at the same time. Whatever you do, don’t even think about becoming an attorney. Your arguments/ evidence are not convincing enough to win a case.

Instead, why don’t you review her mile-long accomplishments, and the reasons why she is still in demand. That’s not awarded to someone who sings “flat”, dear.

Get your hearing rechecked, and strengthen your position.

Patti's voice has held up far better than Bernadette's or Betty's, r270.

[Quote] You’re exhausting. Exhausting, and laughable at the same time. Whatever you do, don’t even think about becoming an attorney. Your arguments/ evidence are not convincing enough to win a case.

You sound rather a lot yourself, dear.

R274 Absolutely. When I saw her with Seth Rudesky in Beverly Hills in 2018. He challenged her to do the "Young Eva" section of Evita. "Screw the middle classes!" She did it, and sounded exactly, and I mean exactly like she did on the cast album.

I saw that, PattiFan @ R236, and was impressed. 38 years post Evita, and she still had it.

R244

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry, I meant to type, PattiFan @ R276.

R277

R273, it doesn't mean she's not a great performer, it just means she's often a mushmouth with her pronunciation and often misses the notes while belting, especially during runs up or down the scale. Why do these rather objective facts upset you?

R279 - “….. Why do these rather objective facts upset you?

Don’t you strawman me, R279. Your argument is not objective, it is subjective. You’ve made it subjective.

Explain why, to this day, she is still cast as a Broadway lead. That is a more compelling and interesting topic than listening to your subjective babble about her being a “mush-mouth”, and “missing the notes”, bullshit.

Waiting for your explanation.

Hearing is subjective too, hon. Unclench.

I've been hearing about Patti's poor diction for 30 years. And, I've heard it enough to understand that it is a thing.

The thing is, it's never something that has hampered my enjoyment of her. I guess I see what they're saying, but then I think, "So what?"

I've seen only one person get a standing ovation in the middle of a play before, and that was Patti in Gypsy. Despite poor diction, or being flat or whatever. I think she's a supernatural talent. I would urge fellow fans to let those opinions roll off your back!

Here she is singing Everything's Coming Up Roses on Jimmy Fallon. I love how hard Jimmy fangurls on Patti when the song is done.

R270, I thought IN 1980 that if Patti LuPone was ten years older, she would have cleaned up and had a career like Streisand. Not Liza, STREISAND.

Times change. R271 is right.

Patti has more in common with Merman than Streisand. Streisand could never be heard without a mic.

R284, Neither LuPone nor Merman had commercial voices. That harsh, foghorn kind of voice does not translate to radio or record. Nobody wants to listen to a whole album of that. Streisand and Peters had beautiful mainstream voices.

And yet, Merman had recording contracts across the decades.

And people like to listen to Liza on disc for an hour?

Peters could only get a semi hit with "Gee Whiz." I don't think her two pop albums are even available digitally.

I just want to know Bernadette's beauty secrets. She looks 20 years younger than she is. Maybe just getting away from Steve Martin?

Bernie spaced her facelifts just right.

I totally can't stand LuPone, but I just don't like Peters. Peters has been doing the same schtick since she began in the late 60s. She does that one tear coming out of one eye bit. It only seems real the first time you see it, not the 50,000th. LuPone just sucks. She is also rather one-note, always plays a bitch and probably is one in real life. I also find her hard to look at. Even when she was young I didn't find her attractive.

I wonder how much work Peters has had done to look the same as she did 50 yrs ago.

Bernie did not look like that 50 years ago.

Bernadette truly is the gold standard of celebrity aging next to Susan Sarandon. I know a lot of people don't like her, but she looks fantastic.

I don't see why we can't enjoy both. There are certain roles that suit each one better than the other. However, there was a certain excitement to seeing Bernadette try to tackle something like Gypsy when everything seemed to be against her. You really pulled for her. With Patti, it seemed like she could sleepwalk through a role like that. It was just a better fit for her.

Forgot to mention in a comment I made a few days ago in this thread that I saw Patti in Noises Off! It was probably 20 years ago now. Anyway, she mumbled through some of that role, and now that I think about that performance AND how she did Mrs. Lovett in the 2005 Sweeney Todd revival, I am sort of convinced she plays every part the same way. In both roles it was like she was plowing through her dialogue (spoken or sung) and just sort of delivering...herself? I couldn't say in either performance that she was necessarily giving me any nuances of the character she was playing.

I would have to give Bernadette some thought... I have seen her in at least four different shows in 20 years, and I am not sure she was doing a lot more than just giving the audience herself (rather than the characters she played), either.

Who *do* you like, r291?

Patti was miscast in Noises Off, r294. I was pissed the replacement cast didn't come in because I wanted to see Jane Curtin.

Now I'm having visions of Patti giving us her Hyacinth.

Although she's really a belter, when she holds back, she can sound sweet.

Mix of restraint and power, but last16 bars are sweet and subtle.

Jesus, people. You want Blossom fucking Dearie, listen to Blossom fucking Dearie.

I was scarred for life when I saw Patti’s bippies in that Spike Lee movie.

Blow...

Can we just split the difference and go with Bernapatti LuPeterPoon?

That's MISS LuPeterPoon to you, bub.

LuPeterPOON?

I beg your fucking pardon.

Showing her tits was not a wise choice for Patti in Summer of Sam. It was cheap & tacky & she’s better than that.

But what is this about her exposing herself at work, as r261 implied?

[quote] I don't think her two pop albums are even available digitally.

They are, and have been for some time, but combined into one CD called “Bernadette.” (Also on digital download). Of the two Vargas drawings for the lps, they use the first one (the second one, where you see her face in the hand mirror, was better). Between the two albums, there were a handful of songs that didn’t make the CD, including, unfortunately, “The Weekend of a Private Secretary.”

Didn't someone on DL claim that Patti insisted on showing her LuPuppies in Summer of Sam? That it wasn't in the original script and Spike Lee kept saying it wasn't necessary but Patti was adamant about the scene needing her to take her floppy udders out for airing? I wonder whether she also wanted to remove her skirt and go fill frontal. Spike probably vomited at the thought of it while Patti screamed that her pussy went to Juilliard and was "trained".

[Quote] They are, and have been for some time, but combined into one CD called “Bernadette.” (Also on digital download). Of the two Vargas drawings for the lps, they use the first one (the second one, where you see her face in the hand mirror, was better). Between the two albums, there were a handful of songs that didn’t make the CD, including, unfortunately, “The Weekend of a Private Secretary.”

That's a compilation, dear, as you detail...

[quote] But what is this about her exposing herself at work, as [R261] implied?

When she was in the Broadway musical The Robber Bridegroom, she had to appear topless (or was she totally nude?) but her lady parts were covered. She freely admits that she used to flash the stagehands backstage. Just for a laugh, dontcha know. Poor Kevin Kline, who was her boyfriend at the time and also in the show, had to sheepishly grin and say “Oh, that Patti!”

I'd forgotten that one, r307!

Poor Kevin Kline?!

[quote] Poor Kevin Kline?!

How would you feel if your lover was splashing her goods to anyone who would ogle her?

Kevin Kline got about, dear.

Chico's Girl

You forgot about Heartbeeps.

Rainbow HIGH is right

Bumpin' Patti

More More More Patti!

Never not thrilling

I’ve posted the same video you did R320, countless times. LuPone is perfection here. Textbook A-list performance.

Patti is great. She was magical in The Baker's Wife - the way she sang "Meadowlark" in performance was dazzling, different than she does it in her act.

But Bernadette has the edge for me. I love, love, love her.