Vivien Leigh versus Laurence Olivier

[quote] That was a bad marriage, career-wise for Viv. She could have out-Oscared Katharine Hepburn.

Unlikely. Aside from her two stunning major roles she didn’t make a huge impact on screen; she was pleasant and measured rather than impressive. She became jowly in the 1960s and in her photos with Ringo Starr she definitely seemed like an older woman from another era rather than someone ageing with elegance and vitality.

I don’t know if she could have played coarse slatternly with the energy and wit Elizabeth Taylor managed. She was also unwell and given her temperament she was not suited for a long career garnering Oscar nominations. You need stamina and focus to be a Hepburn, a Streep, even a De Niro.

[quote]She played so few roles, and is far more legendary these days than he is.

Scarlett O'Hara is legendary, I think as far as name recognition goes, to the average person Olivier is more well known than Vivien Leigh.

[quote]Larry is forgotten really, isn't he?

Olivier has awards named after him so as far as being forgotten, as long as the awards are in his name people will know him. From the Wikipedia entry linked below::

[quote]The awards were originally known as the Society of West End Theatre Awards, but they were renamed in honour of the British actor of the same name in 1984... The Olivier Awards are considered equivalent to Broadway's Tony Awards and France's Molière Award.

British theatre awards are quite niche though (so are the Tonys).

I reckon Vivien is better remembered than her bisexual 2nd husband.

Vivien had 2 iconic film roles that are among the highest regarded in film history. What are Olivier's defining roles onscreen? Rebecca maybe?

No, Vivien Leigh is not better remembered than the great Olivier, and you have zero evidence for your "reckoning."

Yes, she played two iconic characters, but Hamlet and Heathcliff aren't exactly pikers, never mind Zell and "Iss it safe?"

Scarlett O’Hara and Blanche Du Bois are more famous than Vivien Leigh, and Laurence Olivier is more famous than his characters.

Hamlet is more famous.

Her 2 iconic roles outshine anything Olivier ever did onscreen or on stage though.

Hamlet is 450 years old - he gave a good performance in that. Just like actors in future will.

I like him, but as 20th century stars go, she just seems more memorable, in spite of his overblown reputation.

Vivien married Larry because she wanted to be a Great Stage Actress, which is what she saw herself as. She didn't seem to realize herself that was much better suited to film.

And she is MUCH better known than dusty Olivier by roles. People only remember who he is because of the awards named after him and maybe that out of context anecdote people love to throw out when they disparage method actors.

This thread is dumb. More people know Vivien.

Olivier is undoubtedly one of the greatest ever stage actors. The problem is that these actors are forgotten.

Nobody remembers who played Macbeth in the 1876 revival in New York.

Vivien's 2 major films have cemented her legacy in a way that none of his stage or screen roles have.

Did she sleep with Warren Beatty I wonder?

[quote]Scarlett O’Hara and Blanche Du Bois are more famous than Vivien Leigh, and Laurence Olivier is more famous than his characters.

Thank you, R6, this is the point I was trying to make at R2. Yes, everyone knows who Scarlett O'Hara is but the average person wouldn't recognize the name Vivien Leigh.

I assumed OP's question was about 2021 name recognition, not iconic characters they played.

This is the queeniest thread I have read in quite a while. A real achievement. Vagina wars.

The next poll should be whether Vivien was better than Betty White.

Damn, I just remembered it's 2022.

Vivian amazing in GWTW and Streetcar . But she was also brilliant in That Hamilton Woman, Waterloo Bridge and The Roman Sprung of Mrs. Stone . Enchanting!

She was severely mentally ill, wasn't she? How did he treat her during their marriage? Did he truly love her?

That’s not what we’re saying, r7. Vivien Leigh is synonymous with Blanche and Scarlett.

Lawrence Olivier is not synonymous with Hamlet.

[quote]But she was also brilliant in That Hamilton Woman, Waterloo Bridge and The Roman Sprung of Mrs. Stone .

Most people haven't seen these movies, R16.

[quote]Vivien Leigh is synonymous with Blanche and Scarlett.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here because most people don't know the name of the actress who played Scarlett.

His blackface Othello remains legendary.

Well, she was born the same date I was, so there's that for me!

R18, Yes, Olivier is synonymous with Hamlet, having won the Academy Award for his performance just as Vivien won her two for Scarlett and Blanche.

Alas, his Best Picture winner "Hamlet" isn't shown on television.

One other point: Olivier is one of what I imagine to be a small group of performers who are immediately identifiable by only the surname.

[quote] Yes, Olivier is synonymous with Hamlet, having won the Academy Award for his performance just as Vivien won her two for Scarlett and Blanche.

No, he’s not. Hamlet is the greatest male role in the English language. Laurence Olivier is not the ur-Hamlet. Hamlet is bigger than him. Hamlet is mythic, like Jesus Christ, like Zeus.

Whereas Vivien IS Scarlett and Scarlett IS Vivien.

^ my point is that Olivier is not Hmaket the way that Vivien is Scarlett.

Olivier is the by-word of Traditional, 20th Century, Anti-Actors Studio, British Theatrical acting due to his work as an theatrical impresario and foundation of the National Theatre and nurturing of future generations. His actual acting on stage and screen is almost beside the point. The Olivier Awards! “Why not try acting, dear boy!”. That’s who he is.

Vivien Leigh is the actress whose beautiful face everyone pictures when they say the name Scarlett O’Hara. They don’t necessarily know who he is or what she was about.

Vivien Leigh was a very fine actress but she’s not a legendary “name”, she’s not a Hepburn or a Streep or a Davis. She didn’t even have a “look” like Elizabeth Taylor or Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn or Rita Hayworth, because she two iconic roles looked entire different and because that’s in large part what film stardom is about.

R23, Hold your lecture; I taught British literature for decades.

I'm positing that in the modern world of cinema, which is the milieu you speak of with Vivien Leigh, Olivier is the quintessential Hamlet. And nothing you wrote begins to refute that.

Ralph Fiennes tried (saw his Broadway production) when he was at his peak to make the role "his own"; it didn't take, not even with the accompanying "scandal" of his leaving his wife for Francesca Annis, his Gertrude.

That is to say, every Hamlet post-Olivier is measured against that of "Larry."

It'll count for nothing to those who downgrade the stage, but the largest auditorium at The National Theatre is named after Olivier. Thus the name is in the mind of every serious theatregoer all the time.

Equally iconic to LO's 'Hamlet' is his 'Henry V' - director and star no less, and a classic wartime morale-booster. His performances in 'Rebecca' and 'The Entertainer' are equally memorable.

Recently read Blakemore's fine memoir about directing the ageing preoccupied Olivier in 'Long Day's Journey.' He took on this mammoth part with difficulty, but eventually nailed it. The play (like his 'Othello') became sleep-outside-for returns unmissable - a triumph. It's a brilliant moving account.

Olivier's funeral in Westminster Abbey was televised live, and was packed with luminaries. (Returns only.) The scintillating famous pre-battle speech from 'Henry V' was played, unforgettably. He is embedded in every intelligent person's mind as the greatest actor of modern times. Not close to being forgotten.

[quote] Hold your lecture; I taught British literature for decades.

That’s nice dear, but no actor has made Hamlet his own by virtue of the fact that Hamlet is Hamlet. He is above all, so he belongs to all.

Whereas the lovely and talented Joanne Whalley is not Scarlett: Vivien is.

Jeez, how many Vivien Leigh threads are we going to have? Seriously, there has to have been 10 in the last month.

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Vivien is a greater star than, and will be remembered long after Laurence Olivier.

He's a stage actor. They get forgotten.

She's played 2 of the most iconic roles in cinema history.,

His greatest film role was a supporting part in 'Rebecca'.

I'm a fan of Vivien Leigh (and one who finds Olivier's screen acting to be ridiculously hammy--and if his stage acting anything like a few radio plays I heard him in, dear Lord!) but with all the existing VL threads, no, we did not need another.