Someone explain DL's disdain for Linda Lavin to me

Before it was Datalounge, it was the Polly Holliday Fan Forum.

The Simpsons had a joke about getting revenge against Linda Lavin too. I remember the joke and it seemed like their was an inside story, just never got it.

She represents the performer of limited skill/attractiveness/personality who nonetheless projects an outsized confidence and superiority in direct contrast to their actual worth. Bonnie Franklin is another DL target who fit the same mold. And it’s amazing that they were both at peak obnoxiousness at exactly the same time.

She always comes across as a WASP pretending to be Jewish.

Joan Rivers was an acquaintance of hers back when they both were auditioning for acting parts. She'd run into Lavin on the street feeling dejected from losing a part and Lavin would be over the top thrilled because she got the role. Joan hated her guts. I'm guessing that a lot of people did and that was back in the 60s. She lacked humility. Not quite the D-lister Franklin was, but definitely not A-list in talent or personal development.

She has a major, unjustified superiority complex.

"Alice" was an average sitcom of its period, but then she just kept singing on it, which really drove it into unbearable territory.

The only true part Lavin had is when she played an Uber-Bitch on "Rhoda."

Here

So she’s like the Eldergay version of Demi Lovato?

Her public image was that of an unfortunate looking tough cookie who thrived in a post war II man's world.

If the above statement makes you want to hurl, it's because we weren't the intended audience.

R3 pretty much says it. She is also known to be very difficult to work with.

Lavin hate-acolytes TRIGGER WARNING:

She appears as a talking head in the pseudo-documentary portion of Being the Ricardos, which just dropped on Amazon Prime.

I absolutely LOVE Linda Lavin ... love.

You're coming to class without doing your homework. Just watch an episode and you'll understand the assignment. Don't be a lazy cunt.

Because she was a proponent of the disdained "Early to bed, early to rise" lifestyle.

Because its a world full of Kip Niven fans.

Don't get me started!

R10: No where near as annoying as Demi. Lavin thankfully grew-up in a time where sharing was considered impolite.

Ask Polly Holiday and Diane Lane.

[quote]Not quite the D-lister Franklin was, but definitely not A-list in talent or personal development.

Only A-list in beauty.

Everyone always hates the fresh freckled face in the... **pause**... neighborhood.

Linda Lavin was resentful of Polly Holliday because Flo was considered "the hot one" on the show.

It's because she told Brenda Morgenstern that her thighs were fat.

"Talking trimming the fat...click click..."

[Quote]Joan Rivers was an acquaintance of hers back when they both were auditioning for acting parts. She'd run into Lavin on the street feeling dejected from losing a part and Lavin would be over the top thrilled because she got the role. Joan hated her guts.

R5 Joan must've gotten over it, because she interviewed her years later, reminisced about their old Greenwich Village days, and referred to her as her friend.

Do you remember when Kaye Ballard as Seema put a gypsy curse on Linda on "Alice," saying that from thenceforth "brown will be your downfall"? Well, that curse held true in real life, and so from thereafter Linda could go never leave the home without wearing adult diapers. Even so, it made her awful to work with.

Alice would have been nothing without Flo.

That, and Tommy have the very young me wood.

Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore was one of my favorite movies growing up in the 70s, and I felt as if Linda Lavin hiked up her skirt and shat all over it with that obnoxious show. To be fair I hated Beth Howland and Philip McKeon just as much. But Polly was fun and Vic got a pass because he was a hot daddy.

I chalk it up to a certain cuntiness.

I grew up with ALICE and recognized its limitations even as a child. Cannot imagine watching it now.

That said--for all of the stories about Lavin being difficult, there are a lot more theatre people who acknowledge her talent, her hard work, and her commitment to her craft. (She's also been generous with time and money for charitable causes.) I've never met her, but I'm inclined to think I'd like her based on everything I've heard.

And speaking of professional reputations: Polly Holliday is/was a freaking horror show, allegedly.

[quote]Polly Holliday is/was a freaking horror show, allegedly.

She fit right in on our show.

I found Lavin to be really annoying on "Barney Miller". I think it was her voice.

Her beady eyes, unpretty nose and the fact that she sang the opening theme song to "Alice" and rerecorded it each year.

DL loves her, OP.

DL loves to hate her, OP.

I never watched the show because I was intimidated by it. I was told this was serious business, a woman on her own, and luminaries like Arlo Guthrie and Bob Dylan were involved in the production. The idea of watching Alice was as daunting as watching Masterpiece Theatre.

Does Linda's pussy stink?

I liked her show as a kid for the obvious fluff sitcom piece that it was. I think it was because I liked the oddball recurring diner regulars and the comradery between them that the show's episodes featured. That said, I agree that I wanted progressively to shove a white-hot tuning fork through one ear and through the other as Linda recreated her sung opening theme differently each new season, trying to transform it from a jingly little tune into Burt Bachrach on LSD-fed steroids by the show's last year.

She thought of herself as a "song stylist" instead of just singing normally.

I always found her grating....until I saw her in GYPSY. Then he other shows on Broadway. She's a great actress. Annoying, on Alice, but on stage, she'a amazing.

She's just one of many wraiths Andrea Martin creates.

It's true art when Andrea bathes in the pompousness, stupidity, and antisocial microaggressions LL displayed.

Just listen to her magnificent interpretation of this song's lyrics

[quote] —And She Could Scat Too

She could?

Apparently, she was good on stage.

Charles Busch wrote the part of Majorie in 'The Tale of the Allergist's Wife' for Lavin

and the notorious critic John Simon praised her.

That Linda Lavin is a fabulous Nanny you don't need me to tell you, but this always remarkable actress manages here to surpass even the stiff competition of her own previous triumphs . . .John Simon review of 'Hollywood Arms'

I liked her as Meadow’s insufferable shrink on The Sopranos.

I don't understand it, I liked her and the show Alice. Though I loved Polly Holliday, more. I still sometimes tell people to "kiss my grits."

There was an episode in which the plot revolved around Henry, the nebbish customer. Lavin was furious that the episode didn't revolve around her and took it out on poor Marvin Kaplan, treating him like shit and insulting him. She's not a good person.

Linda's still working. She plays Madelyn Pugh in Being the Ricardos.

Remember that poster on an old hate-Linda thread who got pissed after she ignored him when he congratulated her after seeing her on stage.

That was at about the same time they said Betty Buckley thought LL was a hardcore sociopath.

The one major difference is that Lavin has consistently worked (in TV and theatre) while Franklin basically never worked again.

I’ve asked/said this before but if Lavin were really that difficult I don’t think she would have worked so much - it’s not like she was such a huge draw that people HAD to put up with her.

Sure she was outshone by Flo and Mel on the show but I thought she was a decent enough straight woman - certainly not cringe worthy in the way BF was. The most annoying thing about her is her voice (and I’m talking about her speaking voice).

To me LL was the poor man's Valerie Harper. Which isn't a slight, I adore Joan Collins who was the poor man's Elizabeth Taylor.

I’ve been watching Alice is reruns lately and her singing was atrocious and always being pushed. That and when she dressed up as other characters, like the mobster or the old lady neighbor. It was so dumb.

I waited to see her in Gypsy because I didn't want to see that dyke truckdriver in the role. I've got nothing against dyke truck drivers I just don't want to see them in Gypsy.

Lavin was not nearly as bad as everyone said and I didn't need to flee at intermission which definitely would have been the case with Tyne.

Why didn't Franklin ever work again? Was it because of diva attitude or just no acting skills?

Being a million years old I saw Franklin in Applause and in Carousel at Jones Beach with John Cullum and Constance Towers.

I enjoyed her in both. Little did I know she would turn into a sitcom horror star.

R3- If you're going to compare Linda Lavin and Bonnie Franklin

BF had NO talent- she couldn't sing, she couldn't dance, she couldn't ACT

LL is no Meryl Streep but she has some minor talent unlike BF who had NO talent at all

R58-How dare you say those things about me!

David, hold me!

Here’s LL starring in an after school special! I like the part where her bitch daughter threatens to call immigration on LL’s illegal maid and daughter.

Ms. Lavin was not aware of her limitations

She doesn’t want to drop a name, but she’s close with Gloria Steinem and Alice represented 80% of working women in this country.

BF had no talent and yet the gays are still talking about her nonstop almost 40 years after that show ended. Uh huh.

I didn't realize how prolific she was in the TV movie industry. Linda always found work to do, there's no denying that.

Cunt

Bonnie fought with the behind-the-scenes staff constantly over the show's decade long run. Facts of Life was taping next door, and one of the actresses used to say that they could hear the screaming matches from where they were rehearsing. That type of behavior can be forgiven when you're the star and the ratings are doing well, but once the show ends no one is going to go out on a limb and want to work with you. She did do a lot of regional theater in the 90's, though.

Linda's issue was never really with the writers or directors, it was Polly and Diane whom she felt were upstaging her. The last couple of years with Celia were apparently smooth sailing. Plus Linda already had a proven Broadway career that she could go back to.

I never knew that Linda and Bonnie performed together on a TV special. I wonder how the backstage chatter was.

... picking on Polly and Diane was my favorite sport . ..

That being said, Bonnie did maintain close friendships with her One Day at a Time and Applause cast mates.

What was Bonnie fighting with staff about?

R70 — wearing a bra.

R55, Stephen Sondheim said Linda Lavin captured the essence of the real Mama Rose more than any other actress.

[quote]Stephen Sondheim said Linda Lavin captured the essence of the real Mama Rose more than any other actress.

I believe he meant in physical appearance as the man never met Rose Hovick.

A young Linda (almost) steals the Bway show, "It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's Superman."

Here's a number from Hal Linden special with Linda and Bonnie. Note that Bonnie got her own close up for her intro while Linda didn't. I wonder if there was a screaming fight during rehearsals regarding this?

R75 but which one got to go home with him?

Wasn’t Hal Linden a homosexual?

Honey, this is Datalounge. We disdain everybody!

The one and only time I met her, she hit me in the head with a fondue pot.