George Chakiris winning Best Supporting Actor for “West Side Story”

Handsome devil.

Wow, that was exciting to watch, especially watching Rita's enthusiasm. Thanks OP.

Rita looked absolutely gorgeous.

Very humble guy.

I'd still do him even at his present age...

But let's dish about Shirley Jones' hairdo. What planet was she coming from??

Only two out of the five nominees in that category showed up that year.

I looked it up and was surprised to find that Shirley Jones is still alive. That video looks ancient.

What the fuck is on Shirley Jones' head? Looks like a cartoon drawing of a baby's hair.

I actually worked with him about a half dozen years ago, Very sweet guy but agonizingly, almost pathologically shy, even in old age. He needs to stop dying his hair and beard black.

R7 it’s almost 60 years ago now. The OG WSS came out 60 years ago.

I had such a horrible crush on him. He made a couple movies, one where he played an Aztec Indian with Yul Brynner, and then there was Diamond Head with Charlton Heston and James Darren. I also had a huge crush on him. I wish George had larger body of work. But he's always been one of my favorites from the old days.

R11 as a kid I didn’t realize it but years later I rewatched and crushed on him. Mostly in the “America” scene. That is at least where I realized I found him sexy. The way he moves is effortless. Incredibly talented with a tight little body and beautiful smile.

Some people believe that Oscar win cursed him and killed his blooming career. After he won his career almost immediately dried up.

No. He doesn’t look good now and had tons of work done. Men can’t ever pull that off.

I assume his appearance is why he wasn’t asked to even cameo in the new version.

“Kings of the Sun,” R11! As a gayling, one of my first indications that I liked the wang. Al those greased up, half naked mens! Lol On a serious note, I dug around for years to get my own DVD copy of that movie. I thought I was the only one who recalled that obscure film.

He sells jewelry now I believe

He’s not bad at all in West Side Story but his Oscar win is puzzling. Montgomery Clift should’ve won.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Miss Shirley Jones

His Oscar win is deserved. He was so charismatic as Bernardo. He really stole every scene, along with Rita, of course.

PS he looks better now than he did a few years ago. This was him one year ago. He looks great for a man in his late 80s. Better in motion.

Oh come on, he was fine, but Monty was ROBBED. Ol' Monty was on death's door anyway, so it would have been a touching end to his big name career, and maybe Chakiris's career would have gone somewhere had he not won.

Following WSS, the only movies I've seen that he showed up in are French films where he has small supporting roles, which is never a good sign.....he's pretty charming in Les Demoiselles de Rochefort. I had to google him to make sure he was in the war epic "Is Paris Burning?" but to be fair, I barely registered anyone in that snoozefest besides my beloved Jean-Paul Belmondo. And Orson Welles, because he's too large not to pay attention to.

Wasn’t part of why his career stalled because he wasn’t good at being quiet about liking cock?

That is one Hell of a line-up of Best Supporting actors Oscar nominees. However, Monty Cliff was Brilliant in Judgement at Nuremberg, he should have won.

He's in the camp classic The Big Cube (1969) with Lana Turner. The 'big cube' refers to LSD!

The 1960s were all about wasting your insanely stacked casts (see 1967's Casino Royale). Besides Belmondo and Welles mentioned above, this movie managed to snag Leslie Caron, Alain Delon, Charles Boyer, Yves Montand, Michel Piccoli, Simone Signoret, Kirk Douglas, Glenn Ford, Robert Stack, Anthony Perkins, and Jean-Louis Trintignant and is still somehow insanely tedious.

And mix him up with George Maharas who did playgirl. I wish it had been Chakiris

I would have let him destroy my guts if I was on the WSS set

He played a jewel thief in a guest appearance on CHiPs. Ponch and John successfully arrested him at the end.

He’s originally from Ohio? I would have never known.

He revealed Natalie Wood tried getting Richard Beymer fired numerous times

R29 Why did Natalie dislike Richard so much?

He was the hottest guy in the film. His sexuality explodes every scene he is in. Many gay guy back then must have paid the ticket just to see him. But I still would give the Oscar to Monty.

Monty probably had alienated a lot of people by then and his performance is touching partly because he was such a mess by that point.

Peter Falk was known more for tv at that time, to the extent he was known at all.

Gleason & Scott were in the same film, which usually doesn't work out for anyone. Scott had done tv but also had a lot of stage experience had been nominated previously for an Oscar. Gleason might have gotten an "against type" nod if Scott hadn't been nominated. That would have helped mitigate the idea that Gleason was a "tv star".

Chakiris may have simply won by default.

George C Scott was terrific in The Hustler it was his second Oscar nomination following Anatomy of a Murder (1959) and he refused the nomination for The Hustler.

Montgomery Clift was brilliant in his role. I thought he would have a lock on the Oscar. Why didn't he win? Was he unpopular in Hollywood at the time due to drugs and booze?

R34 Hollywood apparently also didn't go for booze and dope.....

R35. We heard, Helen Lawson, you ol' battle axe. --Neely O'Hara

Hollywood had simply given up on the wrecks that were once Monty Clift and Judy Garland (who also should have won over Moreno) and Gleason and Scott split The Hustler votes. That left Peter Falk as a comic gangster in a big flop film and George Chakiris. So there you go.....

Chakiris is a big part of why Bernardo’s presence is felt throughout the film. Nothing else works without that element. That character personifies the tension, and Chakiris gives it more than just a face and a voice.

Chakiris was absolutely deserving of his win, along with Moreno. To me, they are the passionate, beating heart of that film, though secondary supporting characters they may be. There is an unbelievable intensity and sensitivity to his portrayal of Bernardo that, along with Anita, just shines brighter than everything else in that film...and that's saying something, as practically every thing and every one in that film is brilliant.

George Chakiris was a vision! I loved the quick and humble acceptance speech.

I don’t think he did as good of a job as Rita Moreno or did a better job than Russ Tamblyn. Why was he nominated over Russ Tamblyn? What made his performance more special?

Rita also had the more emotionally heavy scenes toward the end.

R41 100% disagree about him not being better than Tamblyn. He runs circles around Tamblyn as far as quality and presence.

No one has ever said he was better than Moreno, she’s what is most remembered for that film besides Natalie Wood, who was a movie star. Most didn’t take Wood seriously as an actress. However, they worked beautifully together and they weren’t in the same category ;)

Could be, who knows?

Monty Clift was never a great actor.

George must have the least amount of dialogue of any male winner of an acting Oscar ever. Of course, there's the unforgettable Jerome Robbins' dance moves, but he hardly has a dramatic moment in the film until he's killed.

I love seeing all the men in white tie and tails in that Oscar clip! Those days are long gone.....

I'm watching Kings of the Sun now. I love how they just stuck a fake ponytail on the back of George's big pompadour so he could play a Mayan. He does look pretty good in the movie, but his costumes needed to be sluttier.

Rita Moreno, yes. George Chakiris, no.

But I think the Academy saw Moreno and Chakiris as a package. And that is why he won. But it is puzzling. As R45 noted, he doesn't really say or do much besides dancing here and there. His highlights are dancing scenes ("Prologue", "Dance at the Gym," "America") and then he dies. When I first learned that WSS had won Best Supporting Actor, I assumed it was for Tamblyn who impressed me more. I thought that Chakiris was cute and danced well, but found his performance rather forgettable otherwise.

Did he hit on you, R9?

I think “America” made a huge impression on the audience, and both he and Rita are dynamic in that, you can’t take your eyes off them. Not just the dancing but the meaning of the song and how radical it was for the times.

R10 television/photography/newsreels were still predominantly black and white in the early '60s. Networks didn't all shift to color until 1966. That is when the first color Oscars were broadcast. Even then, many families continued to have B&W TV sets into the '70s. My mom was born in the late '50s and remembers that her family didn't get their first color set until '71 or so. Even though by the late '60s all shows on TV were in color, she still saw them in B&C because they hadn't upgraded yet.

That was meant for R7.

You don't need a lot of dialogue (or even screen time) to make your mark on a movie.

R53 but compared to the other nominees, his performance in WSS was rather mundane, the dancing notwithstanding.

You can’t just remove his dancing from his performance, it’s an integral part of his acting, and certainly an important factor in his winning the Oscar.

R54 Don't agree at all. For many, his performance, along with Rita Moreno's, is one of the most memorable, impactful parts of that film. There is a deep sensitivity and intensity to his scenes, and the impact is felt even long after the character dies. The scene of the boys setting up the rumble in the store is a great example of not needing singing or dancing. It's all in the eyes, his physical presence, his stance...

I agree with R39. And WTF are we comparing him to Moreno? They had two distinctly different charges.

R56 is absolutely 100 % correct in his interpretation and reaction. Yes, yes, yes.

In R19's clip, I love how Chakiris hits back at Spielberg (and Moreno) for their ethnic casting hypocrisy. See around the 17:30 mark, he treads very carefully on the subject.

Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse never won an Oscar for their dancing. They weren't even nominated.

There's no Oscar category for dancing, R60.

And yet, Chakiris won an Oscar for his dancing, r61. Do you think he would have won if he hadn't danced in the film? Would have even been nominated?

I don’t understand why some posters are upset about this or trying to draw a line between Chakiris’ dancing and non-dancing performance. Oscars aren’t awarded on a scientific scale. He won as a result of his total performance. That Fred Astaire didn’t win an Oscar didn’t mean he didn’t matter—frankly, I think he should have! If the dad from CODA wins this year for Supporting Actor, it will be in part because of his expressiveness in signing ASL rather than speaking. As it should be.

Another primarily dancing role that was Oscar-nominated was Mikhail Baryshnikov in THE TURNING POINT. That was even more of a headscratcher because Baryshnikov has even less to do than Chakiris in WSS. I think he gets about ten minutes of screen time, tops, and it's mainly of him dancing. Also, he has around 5 lines of dialog in total. Talk about a wasted nomination! And he didn't even show up to the ceremony. 😂

Another difference between Chakiris and Astaire et al is that the former’s dancing was part of his portrayal of the character, while the latter group were themselves famous for their dancing style and technique. When Astaire was dancing, it was really about him, not about the character he was portraying.

R64 Even more of head scratcher, how did The Turning Point receive 11 Oscar nominations! It's awful!

R65 exactly! Two completely different dynamics.

Astaire had roles written for him so he could do what he did best, dance. That wasn’t the case of WSS, and the dancing wasn’t just dancing in this one. WSS was incredibly progressive and ahead of its time in that it used the dancing as part of the acting. The fights etc. were all choreographed dances. It wasn’t just dancing in circles looking pretty.

He wrote is autobiography that was DEVOID of anything personal - he needs to get on with it and just come out already

Rita winning her much deserved Oscar. Did she keep her speech short because deathly-shy Chakiris did too?

I know neither had speeches prepared. They both believed they would not win (she was convinced Judy Garland was winning).

Peter Falk’s performance is considered the best in that film. He was wonderful. It was a strong year in the Supporting categories.

In terms of Montgomery Clift - he burned so many bridges in Hollywood. If he didn't, he would have won. But since many in Hollywood didn't take to Monty, they voted instead for Chakiris

Chakiris’s performance felt new and fresh in 1961. It stood out in a fresh way back then.

What’s funny is both Moreno and Chakiris believed they weren’t winning that Oscar but both also won the Golden Globe.

[quote] What’s funny is both Moreno and Chakiris believed they weren’t winning that Oscar but both also won the Golden Globe.

Golden Globe didn't mean as much as the Oscar did back then - word around Hollywood was Judy Garland was going to win - Rita said as much.

Notice neither prepared a speech, because they truly believed they were not going to win

They din't even thank their mothers...

R69 the following year Chakiris presented the Oscar to Patty Duke for The Miracle Worker whose acceptance speech was shorter than Moreno's and Chakiris'. Duke said, 'Thank you' and walked off.

[quote]He's in the camp classic The Big Cube (1969) with Lana Turner. The 'big cube' refers to LSD!

With GOWNS by TRAVILLA.

R76 yes, but her “thank you” was the most honest and genuine “thank you” ever. It was incredibly endearing.

Poor Chakiris. He is deathly shy, and you can see it all over his face as he presents. He looks like he wants to run off the stage.

Wasn't the music they played for Patty Duke's win from To Kill a Mockingbird??

I think, in general, acceptance speeches were much briefer back then....though I don't know what was holding them back.

That's what I was wondering, R79. Maybe it was chosen because she was so young, though? ... Nah, probably not. I don't remember any recognizable music from The Miracle Worker that they could have used, though.

The Academy's usual go-to acceptance speech music back then was I Enjoy Being a Girl.....couldn't they have used that for Patty instead of the loser's theme music?

R79 R91 It was sung to Helen by Annie Sullivan in the film

^ even though Helen couldn't hear it

[quote] It was sung to Helen by Annie Sullivan in the film

There was no music in the "the Miracle Worker" - closest thing they had to any music was Annie Sullivan singing a lullaby to Helen

[quote] but her “thank you” was the most honest and genuine “thank you” ever. It was incredibly endearing.

In Patty's book she writes that she was suffering from a type of "Stockholm" syndrome by her agents - they told her when to eat, when to go to sleep, when to watch TV, etc.

When it came time for the Oscar, Patty never once thought that she would win. All the trade papers said Angela Lansbury (Manchurian Candidate) was a LOCK. But on the off-chance she should win, Patty asked her controlling agents, what she should say - should I thank Anne Bancroft, the writers, the producers, the director?

The response from her agents was "Just say 'Thank You'" - and that is why she just said "thank you" because her agents told her to only say that.

So why was Chita Rivera passed on when it came to making the movie?

I guess it was smart. Rita Moreno was the right choice for the film version I suppose

Is Richard Beymer gay?

"I love seeing all the men in white tie and tails in that Oscar clip! Those days are long gone....."

DLers long for the days of sodomy laws, Jim Crow laws....

What do you have against white tie and tails, r88?

Nothing. I have something against backwards-looking conservatives who romanticize the past

R90 Liking certain aspects of the past doesn't mean you condone everything about the period. Jesus.

R85 Yes, as I said it was sung but an orchestral reprise of Mockingbird plays over the film's last scene. Which explains why it was played as Duke went to the stage to accept her Oscar?

Well, R90 it was a time before COVID. Trump, mass shootings, cancel culture, AIDs . . . You sound bitter!

People, the music playing when Patty Duke (and Anne Bancroft) won wasn't from TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. It's the tune to the lullaby "Hush, Little Baby" that goes:

♪ Hush little baby, don't say a word

Mama's gonna buy you a mockingbird

And if that mockingbird won't sing,

Mama's gonna buy you a diamond ring, etc. ♫

As the above poster noted, it was sung by Bancroft to Duke in THE MIRACLE WORKER. The music was also used as underscoring throughout the film.

The Andy Williams Show

He was so attractive. A first generation American. His parents were Greek immigrants.

People like r93 who whine about cancel culture forgot about the Production Code, which banned sex, swearing, nudity, gay content....

Conservatives don't know about history.

Is r93 whining about cancel culture, r97?

R97 The production code is not the same as cancel culture which attempts to destroy those who have a different opinion or POV and cancel culture tries to restrict artistic choices as well.

Carol Burnett Show

As if Harvey Weinstein just had opinions.....the Black List and the Code eliminated entire careers.

Did Weinstein not like Chikaris?

R99, you think the Production Code didn't limit artistic choices or points of view? You are dumb. You apparently haven't heard of the Hollywood blacklist, either. People who romanticize the past are always uneducated Republicans.

In French!

Doesn’t he speak French? I read he also knows Spanish and Italian. He seems like a lovely man.

[quote]So why was Chita Rivera passed on when it came to making the movie?

She refused to do anal.

This is bitchy, but I really can't imagine Chita on a big screen.

That’s why she never had a film career really. No one could r107.

They felt she doesn’t have the look for films, and her style works beautifully on stage but they felt she was too “theatrical” and over the top for film. So they recast her for the film, along with most of them.

Chakiris played Riff in the London production before being cast as Bernardo for the film. They felt he would be perfect for films and they were right. They just knew he wasn’t a good Riff for the movie because he had an ethnic look to him.

It's true that the Production Code (aka Hays Code) was dictated by the religious right (e.g., Catholic Legion of Decency). The Code was established in 1930 but wasn't enforced until summer 1934 and would last until 1968 when the rating system was established. Thus, began the New Hollywood...

The best period in Hollywood history was from the late '60s (with the abolishment of the Production Code) through the 2000s. That was when moderates were in charge and there was more freedom of expression. I mean, look at all the classic movies/performances from that 40-year period because there was practically no censorship.

With Hollywood now once again having been taken over by extremists (this time from the left) there is a New Production Code all over again. The difference is, the Original Production Code promoted traditional family values and gender roles and respect for God, America, police, and authority in general. They also forbade nudity and anything that was sexual or considered indecent. The New Production Code subverts all of that. Also, they try to suppress what is (in)appropriate to say/do on screen, just like the Original Production Code, but for different reasons.

In short, both Codes are one and the same because extremists on either side are one and the same (albeit with different values). In many ways, the Old Production Code was pro-America, whereas the New Production Code is anti-America. The Old Production Code was about aspirationalism and lifting the nation's spirits in periods of despair (e.g., Great Depression, WWII), whereas the New Production Code is about gloom and doom and tearing down the country in crisis (e.g., pandemic).

R99 did the production code chastise people like Michael Keaton for mistakenly saying Hidden Fences instead of Hidden Figures or fire a Fordham University professor for mixing up the names of 2 black students? So petty

R110 what does the Fordham thing have to do with movies?

You could see how much George loved to dance and his dancing was so expressive, very much a part of which ever character he was playing...yes he was playing a character on those TV shows, too. I bought his record album of Broadway show tunes. I thought he did well.

R110, because criticizing people is the same thing as actually banning things like gay relationships from the screen.

R111 it has to do with cancel culture vs the production code. Do try and follow the discussion.

R113 What?

Yes, cancel culture in reference to films. Not real life. R114

R110 supports banning teachers who talk about race in classrooms and banning books about LGBT people, like all the conservatives who grandstand against cancel culture

The Production Code banned "sex perversion" aka homosexuality. That's fine with the DL conservabots

R117 I do?

[quote]They felt he would be perfect for films and they were right

They already knew how he looked on film, r108.

If you think "cancel culture" is worse than the Hollywood Blacklist and the Production Code, r119, then, yes, I'd assume you do.

He won the Golden Globe so I guess the Oscar wasn't a complete shock.

Sorry I never said worse! Project much? Learn to read instead of misinterpreting! BYE!

But, r122, did the GGs do a separate Comedy/Musical category back then?

R116 try and follow the discussion.

He can also be seen in a kilt in Brigadoon and with graying temples in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

R120 I was watching the secondary audio of White Christmas just this past weekend. Rosemary Clooney referred to George Chakiris the best looking man in Hollywood.

R124 supporting categories don’t get separated.

R110: You've been busted and you don't like it. We get it.

Back in the day I would have loved a three way with George Chakiris and George Maharis

I keep hearing Tamblyn was a homophobe which is strange because he was often working with gays in Hollywood. And he was a gymnast for Christ's sake.

Well statistically, most people worked with gays in Hollywood. Even homophobe John Wayne was courteous to gays like Rock Hudson.

Working with gays doesn’t mean you can’t be a homophobe. Tons of those people are lowkey.

Just like a racist can know how to work with black people. Doesn’t mean they don’t feel the way they do.

R79 that music was not in To Kill a Mockingbird, but it was featured in The Miracle Worker

Clift was not a nice person. And people probably had had enough of him.

A friend of his was with him while Clift was admiring his own beautiful face in a mirror. Before the car accident of course. Clift looked at him and said, 'Why are you so ugly?'

...et les ballets de Barry Collins

R124 Yes but not in supporting acting categories which I believe is still the case even now

R132, yeah, and George W. Bush worked with gays. So did Reagan. But they were still homophobes

R135 Being a nice person has nothing to do with acting ability or deserving awards. Faye Dunaway is one of the biggest cunts alive, and she absolutely deserved her Oscar. Monty was disliked by Hollywood types for his addictions and unreliability, like Judy Garland.

Or they didn’t find his performance as grand as you did.

R139 As an aside Faye IMHO did not deserve her Oscar for Network. It was a one-dimensional character and Liv Ullman in Face to Face and Sissy Spacek in Carrie were far more deserving and it certainly isn't Faye's best performance

R107 Chita's first film was Sweet Charity (1969) Rita had numerous film credits before WSS. Much more often than not those who created a role on stage don't play the role in film. Rita was offered Bye, Bye Birdie which Chita originated on stage. The part went to Janet Leigh after Rita turned it down. And yes, Rita had a more camera-ready face.

[quote] People, the music playing when Patty Duke (and Anne Bancroft) won wasn't from TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. It's the tune to the lullaby "Hush, Little Baby" that goes:

The actual scene illustrating R94's point:

When Rita won why didn't the orchestra play America instead of Maria which is associated with Tony not Anita?

They also played it for George Chakiris. The Oscars show wasn't as much of an overproduced extravaganza back then, and one song for each movie sufficed in those days.

Yes, they used the same song for every win that night.

[quote] Just like a racist can know how to work with black people. Doesn’t mean they don’t feel the way they do.

Great. Now we are punishing people for their thoughts and not their actions. Welcome to East Germany.

R147, your fellow conservatives wanted to throw people out of the military for having homosexual thoughts.

R145 R146 Thanks and yes when Joan went up to receive her oops, I mean Anne's Oscar they played the Mockingbird theme.

R116 Who died and left you in charge of what can and cannot be discussed on DL?

R129 WHO's we? Do you have an imaginary friend?

I thought there was some audio of him in Company out there, but I can't seem to find anything.

[quote] Great. Now we are punishing people for their thoughts and not their actions. Welcome to East Germany.

R147, the fact that someone who has never met Russ Tamblyn is aware of his reputation as a homophobe means the problem wasn't confined to what was in his *mind*.

Chakiris did "Murder She Wrote" once and "Fantasy Island" twice, but NEVER "Love Boat".

He also played Shirley Jones' love interest in the final episode of The Partridge Family. Oscar payback?

I'm going to be sending around a petition in a bit and I hope you all sign it. I'm leading the effort to bring back voluminous wiglets, falls and party curls to our award ceremonies.

Montgomery Clift should have won. He was much more deserving of the Oscar than Chakiris.

Monty was a druggie and a shit. George was a good decent human being so he deserved it. And if you don't think the Oscar's are a popularity contest I have a bridge to sell you.

Oscars

[quote] Monty was a druggie and a shit. George was a good decent human being so he deserved it.

Who gives a shit if George Chakiris is a "a good decent human being?" The Oscars are supposedly, SUPPOSEDLY, given for merit. Even in his depleted state Montgomery Clift could outact poor George with both hands tied behind his back. Monty deserved to win, not poor old limited George, whose career evaporated after his undeserved Oscar win.

[quote] Back in the day I would have loved a three way with George Chakiris and George Maharis

Both played Robert in "Company"; Chakiris headed the national tour (there were rumors of a relationship between "Company" choreographer, Michael Bennett, and Chakiris), while Maharis did "Company" in stock. I saw both: Chakiris (opposite Stritch) was fine, Maharis (opposite Vivian Blaine) was not great.

It always seemed to me that you gay men always have the best guys. It's twue, it's twue!

WHY must EVERYTHING be a CONTEST?!?

Hard to believe these days, when the last three supporting actor Oscars have gone to co-leads, one of whom has been a major star for decades, but at the time there was some controversy about the “unfairness” of major stars like Garland and Clift competing in the supporting categories, even though that is clearly where they belonged based on their roles. This may have had something to do with the Chakiris win, along with the general enthusiasm for the film. So, by today’s standards, Clift might win? Still no, since now best actor Maximilian Schell, billed fifth and out of the movie for long stretches of time, would probably be put in supporting as well (as would Lee Marvin in Cat Ballou and maybe even Rod Steiger in In the Heat of the Night).

R160 The Oscars were a publicity marketing ploy thought up by Louis B Mayer to sell movies. If you think he had any intention that they would have been given out by merit you have absolutely no idea of the history of film in America.

Look up Louis B Mayer in Wikipedia and learn something.

Why do you people refuse to acknowledge that WSS and it’s dancing, songs and acting were seen as “progressive” in 1961? Also, he was the best in the category. None of those other four could do what he did.

Rita played Norma for few weeks in London when dreadful Petula was off. (The same was Elaine took over from Betty for her time off before taking the part and Petula from Elaine. Rita didn’t play it more than few weeks becaus it closed with Petula.)

New Ways To Dream

Who gives a shit about the "intention" of the Oscars at their creation? The Oscar winners have always been a mixed bag of actually deserving performances and political/popularity wins, but to say the entire thing is a popularity contest is horseshit. WSS's category sweep was a popularity win - I'd have given Rita the Oscar but not George, I'm surprised at some of the Monty Clift hate on this thread - most Hollywood stars were not "nice people."

His performance was fabulous, no way did Chakiris's compare.

I just don’t think Monty was better than George

R90 'backwards-looking'! Oh, dear! Talk about backward!

R171, you're one to talk.

R169 If you don't think George was totally fabulous in WSS your mother dropped you on your head too many times. Nobody gives a shit any more about that car crash face nasty queen Clift but Chakiris will always be loved by many people for WSS.

R173 Nobody knows the name George Chakiris, just "Bernardo from WSS." He is NOT more well known than Clift, my god.

Clift lacks that huge iconic role that some of his contemporaries had that either made them legends or just keep them relevant years later, like James Dean with Rebel, Brando with On The Waterfront, The Godfather, and a few other roles, or even Chakiris with WSS.

Monty was never cast in anything of that caliber.

I'd say The Heiress is of that caliber. Same goes for From Here to Eternity.

From Here to Eternity? The Heiress? Red River?

Do not attempt to reason with R174. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a tragedy.

Nope. Those are never ever mentioned outside of old people. Rebel, or at least the image of James Dean in Rebel, never left human psyche.

If nothing else, Clift is known for drowning Shelley Winters, something many people wished they could do.

Yeah, A Place in the Sun isn't exactly a B movie. Couldn't be more of a classic and IMHO THat one and The Heiress have aged FAR better than anything James Dean ever made.

Being a classic doesn’t mean you’re in the same caliber as The Godfather or Rebel. And you don’t need to be a great film to be one of those movies people never forget.

I can assure you the average young person knows Brando and Dean more than Clift.

[QUOTE] Clift lacks that huge iconic role that some of his contemporaries had that either made them legends or just keep them relevant years later, like James Dean with Rebel, Brando with On The Waterfront, The Godfather, and a few other roles, or even Chakiris with WSS.

Are you joking? Go watch A Place in the Sun and then report back to us.

That’s a classic but not the same caliber as what Dean and Brando have.

Dean only starred in 3 movies. Clift had many memorable roles

Yet Deans 3 films are all more beloved and remembered than anything Clift did

No, r186, they aren't.

R187 yes, they are.

I suspect the loon going on about Dean's "masterpieces" has not sit through any of them in their entirety lately.

No one called them “masterpieces”. You seem to be unable to distinguish things. Sorry. That’s a personal problem.

Giant isn't more beloved than A Place in the Sun, The Heiress, or From Here to Eternity

My sister, who's 17, dragged me to the Griffith Observatory a few months ago. OK. Why is it famous? Anyone?

Link, r188?

R185 Clift never pulled a gun on Ronald Reagan, though.

Brando is tremendously helped by starring in The Goddather. Without that film, he and Clift would probably have a similar kind of name recognition.

Big deal, r194. I pulled a gun on Colleen Dewhurst. Actually, she was fool enough to pull a gun on me.

R194, I wish he had!

Dean's performances in Rebel and East of Eden are so mannered! His facial expressions and body contortions are so over the top! He died young right in the middle of his emergence as a film star which is really the reason he is remembered. His acting style was influenced by both Clift and Brando. His Method acting in Giant seems out of place.

R198 Agree to disagree. I loved Dean’s performances in East of Eden and Giant. I also think he was capable of giving cooled down performances like in this television episode.

Dean's body language was a combination of a contortionist and a ballerina. Twisting, twirling, hands over head, clutching his head . . .

R200 Blame Eartha Kitt

Dean was incredible in all three films.

His style in Giant went against the other actors and it worked beautifully because the character is supposed to be an outlier. I found him to act circles around Rock Hudson in their scenes together, and him and Liz were lovely together, much better chemistry than she had with Hudson.

He just wasn’t great as playing older in Giant. Once he’s in his 50s it’s not as good.

He was absolutely lovely in East of Eden, in every scene minus the infamous breakdown with his father.

Tic-y, r200.

Earths Kitt trained him in ballet so he can know how to move for the camera. Believe it or not, how you move plays a big role in filmmaking, and he needed to know The importance of body movements and language.

R204 Yes, I know. And how he moves is distracting and overdone especially on film.

Wow - George Chakiris, Monty Clift, James Dean, Marlon Brando, Eartha Kitt, Shelley Winters, Rock Hudson, Elizabeth Taylor, the Oscars, WSS.

This may be the most DL thread ever. If only someone could work in a Lens Dunham angle, it would be perfect.

The fist time Lens saw WSS, she fell in love with George. When she found out he was Gay, she loved him even more! She tried hard to "turn " him, but alas, she could not.

Monty is not an icon like Brando and Dean. He never will be though he made some fine films and even gave some great performances. He lacked those final essential elements that would have made a long lasting American cultural figure. His car crash taking away his beauty at such a young age and his descent into destructive alcoholic behavior also tarnished his reputation. Chakiris was gorgeous and charismatic and gave a very memorable performance which is known by many people today. Clift except by classic film fans is much less well known.

R208: He was more of a character actor than star. Brando clearly was a star. Dean's charisma made him more of a star than the character player he probably would have become.

Chakiris >> Alvarez