Michigan school shooter's parents charged

There will be riots if they don’t do any time in prison. They have to convict these cunts.

They bought the kid the gun. Yikes.

Yeah. We know.

It needed its own thread though. Some of us get tired of scrolling down 300 comments for new info.

New info like this merits its own thread.

I hope this is a new trend in prosecuting these crimes, the parents have to take some responsibility for providing firearms to kids they have to know shouldn't be using weapons.

The custodial parents should be held partially responsible.

Were the Columbine shooters parents neglectful? It's been so long I can't remember if they scrutinized or not?

Good! Buying him a gun - disgraceful.

The parents do seem like they are deplorable Trumptard magats.

Will be interesting to see if the magaT defenders chime in or if Dump invites them to Mar Lardo. A GoFundme?

[quote]There will be riots if they don’t do any time in prison.

There will be no riots in Oxford, Michigan. It's an affluent, conservative majority white little town. It's quite likely that most of its citizens see this as an unfortunate incident but that gun rights are absolute.

DataLounge lawyers, I have a question:

Give that the 15-year-old child is being changed as an adult, does this weaken the case against the boy because the argument is that his parents were really supposed to be the “adults in the room”? Or does this weaken the case against the parents because the 15-year-old is being tried as an adult?

I suspect many in this affluent community see the Crumbley parents for the low-lifes they are, despite their overlapping voting patterns.

r1 Stop wishing for riots.

R11 - if you read the article, your question is readily answered. They essentially armed him and dismissed school concerns. Actually, in reverse!

I have R1 blocked. Dufuckturd?

R14 - It was a two-sided question vis-a-vis responsibility/blame shifting. From your response it sounds like the blame is being shifted FROM the boy TO his parents. However, the question still remains: Why, then, try the 15-year-old as an adult if the responsibility is being transferred to his parents?

I’m not an attorney and I find the law incredibly illogical at times, so please understand my question(s) are serious and sincere.

R8, how many liberal parents do you know who buy their 15yo a gun, let alone a military-style one?

The prosecutor hinted this would happen to AC on CNN last night. She has nasal, Valley Girl Voice, and was remarkably unimpressive.

I don’t necessarily see that there’s any contradiction in trying the shooter as an adult and his parents for involuntary manslaughter. They bought the gun; they didn’t keep it properly locked up; they didn’t take it away from their son when they came to the school, even though they obviously knew he had their gun (see the mother’s text: “Don’t do it”). There are so many things they didn’t do that they could have, and were obviously cognisant of his intentions.

Make this kid anything but white and his parents would be demonized even if they weren't the ones who got it for him. These two parents are scum. They clearly knew their kid had tendencies. And they were the ones who instructed him not to talk to the police. I absolutely believe a huge part of why they said that was to protect their own asses.

R17 lots of people down here, even democrats, might buy their kid a hunting rifle if they are into that. The big difference is that they would not let the kid handle it without adult supervision and it would be in a cabinet unless hunting.

How anyone could look at this kid and be against abortion is beyond me.

Nov. 29: A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

R21, even as I wrote that, I was thinking of hunting. I know that it is an activity even among liberals, but most liberal parents wouldn't give a 15yo a gun, esp. a military-style weapon. I would think most liberal gun owners don't believe military-grade weapons should be in the hands of civilians. hand guns and rifles, fine, but this is just insanity.

"You have to learn not to get caught.”

Mother of the year right here.

Shooter Mom prefers Trump pussy-grabbing to Biden ass-fucking! Was Shooter Mom a bad mom? Or is she a traditional Straight Shootin' Mom? We'll talk about all this tonite!

Good. These breeders should be held responsible for being awful parents.

The death threats against the Oakland County prosecutor are probably already pouring in and if there isn't a Gofundme for Ethan and his parents' defense there soon will be.

Will Judge Bruce Schroeder preside over this case?

Now go after Rittenhouse's mother

What does this have to do with Anderson Cooper, R19?

It’s been reported (via Daily Mail “Breaking” headline w/o and updated article) that James and Jennifer Crumbley are in the RUN.....

[quote] Shooter’s Parents Flee

Scumbag MAGAts.

R16, juveniles are charged as adults when they commit serious crimes that the juvenile justice system can’t handle, not because they are deemed to be solely responsible for their actions.

CNN is showing the parents driving on the freeway in a white Bronco. It seems they know where they’re going.

Parents bought the gun on Black Friday. Hopefully, they got a good deal.

[quote]There are so many things they didn’t do that they could have, and were obviously cognisant of his intentions.

Given their mentality, they probably thought he'd waive the gun at whoever was bullying him, not actually go to school & go on a shooting spree. But they *are* culpable for the many reasons listed on this thread and should be charged. Given it's Michigan, I just hope a jury will actually hold them responsible and not turn them into some local folk heroes (like the Rittenhouse cretins)

The Crumbley’s are believed to be traveling interstate 🛣 medics and therefore are armed and VERY dangerous

The parents sound godawful the more we hear. Defiant of any authority, teaching their kid to do the same. I'm going out on a limb here and going to guess they are also Trumpers and anti-vaxxers.

R34 oh interesting. I’m not that poster but was wondering the same thing. You’d think they would come up with some specific terminology for it that would be less confusing.

Also in a way it kinda acknowledges that the juvenile Justice system is not fit for task if they aren’t able to deal with all juvenile crimes.

R40 juvenile crimes aren't typically murder.

ODD R39. Oppositional Defiant Disorder...just like their orange overlord.

The murderous Crumbleys are on the lam!

Someone call Dog the Bounty Hunter, NOW!

As someone who worked in Upper MI schools, you'd be surprised what trash teachers and schools are expected to put up with...

Exactly, r42.

Let's hope they go out in a blaze of glory, as God intended!

I hope they are headed towards Mar a lago so they can dump gasoline over their heads & set themselves on fire in front of Dear Leader like some buddhist monk, just as every loyal MAGA should!

R34 - THANKS for your response.! That was exactly the kind of information I was seeking.

R47, considering the couple actually have DUIs in FL, sounds like they'd burn for up real quick.

Following in the (bloody) footsteps of Bonnie and Clyde.

Side note: The prosecutor Karen McDonald was a judge and presided over the first gay adoption in MI:

Indeed, r24...

*

“Mr. Trump, I actually love that you are a bad public speaker because that showed sincerity, and humility,” she wrote. “You changed your mind, and you said ‘so what.’ You made the famous ‘grab them in the pussy’ comment, did it offend me? No. I say things all the time that people take the wrong way, do I mean them, not always. Do I agree that you should of [sic] shown your tax returns? No. I don’t care what you do or maybe don’t pay in taxes, I think those are personal and if the Gov’t can lock someone up over $10,000 of unpaid taxes and you slipped on by, then that shows the corruption.”

Crumbley went on to tell Trump that she hoped he would “really uncover the politicians for what I believe they really are,” and that he might “shut down Big Pharma, make health care affordable for me and my MIDDLE CLASS family again.” She was in favor of Trump’s long-promised border wall, and noted that she was “not racist” because her grandfather “came straight off the boat in Italy.”

“As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms,” the letter continued. “Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions. Thank you for respecting that Amendment.”

She complained about parents at other schools where the “kids come from illegal immigrant parents,” and “don’t care about learning.”

It was signed, “A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.”

[quote] they didn’t keep it properly locked up; they didn’t take it away from their son when they came to the school, even though they obviously knew he had their gun (see the mother’s text: “Don’t do it”)

You have it backward.

[quote] As news alerts went out about an active shooter at the school, James Crumbley “went straight to his home to look for his gun,” McDonald said. Jennifer Crumbley texted her son, “Ethan, don’t do it.” James then called 911 to report that his gun was missing and that “his son could be the shooter,” McDonald said.

[quote] There are no laws in Michigan requiring gun owners to lock up their weapons and keep them away from children.

Are we going to do with this what we did with the Rittenhouse case: fail to report things accurately?

I see we are still wrongly suggesting that Rittenhouse's mother did something wrong.

It is a very slippery slope when we hold parents criminally responsible for the criminal acts of their children. People want to go after them because they don't like their politics. And, sadly, I suspect because they are white. Civil liability is one thing, but criminal responsibility is an entirely different matter. Holding parents responsible for accurately predicting their children's criminal futures? Yikes.

If this is truly a case of bullying then what did the school do to deal with that, deal with the bullies, deal with the psychological well-being of the targeted kid, and what did they do to prevent it from happening further? Did the school have metal detectors at school entrances? Even at the meeting with the parents the day of the shootings when they were shown a "disturbing" drawing, they merely suggested they get him into counseling within 48 hours. It seems the school was aware earlier of other potentially troubling signs from this kid and didn't do much in response. It's not even clear how much they shared with the parents.

Remember the furor that arose when a minority child drew a "disturbing" drawing at a school in Hawaii. The school and other parents were accused of racism and being silly alarmists for wanting the child removed from school.

I also think that considering what may be psychological issues and the possible bullying, that a 15 year old is too young to be tried as an adult.

This prosecutor and this court system seems to be rushing to make decisions for political reasons and to score points rather than handling this with deliberation and fairness. Once the kid was in custody why was there a rush to push it into adult court rather than wait on a proper psychological/psychiatric assessment including an MRI - which I have had to have done on my younger clients.

I await more information. Is he a bullied troubled youth or just a bad seed?

Has Dog The Bounty Hunter checked in yet?

Oh hi J-Mac, Datalounge's finest Trump apologist MAGAt lawyer

R55, I'm assuming you're referring to R53 since I already had that person on ignore.

Sorry, R55, perhaps an Hysterical Ladies Network thread is more to your liking. With Nancy Grace as your emcee.

I honestly don't think magas like defense attorneys unless I guess they're working for them. But on principle, not so much. Don't worry I'm used to being hated by lots of people.

[quote]I await more information. Is he a bullied troubled youth or just a bad seed?

He killed four people. I don't need to "await more information."

I didn't realize John Pierce is a Datalounger. Are you still in hiding, John?

The NRA never misses a crisis as an opportunity to raise money.

[quote]I await more information. Is he a bullied troubled youth or just a bad seed?

Does it ever even once occur to people like you that you are literally a parody at this point? Every fucking time a white anybody does anything, jerk-offs like you are ready to make excuses to absolve them based on mental illness or "bullied." It's a fucking joke and cliched at this point. And it doesn't ever occur to you that you wouldn't do the same if he were black or Muslim or Hispanic. I don't have to know you to know that is exactly who you are. You don't attempt to find out if the black guy or the Muslim guy or the Hispanic guy was "bullied" and "troubled." You're ready to immediately accept that they are whatever stereotype you have at the ready.:Thug, terrorist, etc. But the precious little white boy...we MUST actually get into his entire bio before we decide.

Fucking sickening.

LaPierre's cunt wife must need a new makeup artist or wardrobe or whatever, R60

Why does J-Mac always have the WORST legal takes?

(Am in a family of lawyers, myself, and I find J-Mac to be wildly at odds with the range of surrounding legal perspectives.)

Perhaps it’s part of a bigger reflection of J-Mac’s surreal perceptions?

To answer you, R63: nobody accused Lin Wood, Sydney Powell, or Giuliani of being grounded in reality.

Gods point, R64. Thanks for the analogy. Helpful.

So...many...crackpots.

They’re on the run, according to Lawrence ODonnell.

Next year they should call Martha for help. She's a nice Catholic girl from New Jersey.

US Marshals just announced a $10K reward in the manhunt for these people.

Charging the parents - this is the right way to do things.

Jesus, who *are* these people?

Christ. They really on the lam and were last seen in a vehicle on Wednesday. This is surreal. They could be anywhere. They just added how many more charges to the other four? It appears that LE in Michigan didn't learn from the Florida cops who failed to put Brian Laundrie under surveillance.

I wonder if they're being helped by militia types. There are plenty up there and likely have food and weapon stockpiles in remote cabins.

Surreal.

They caught them!

Details. Lawyer is a lying sack of shit:

The cops have been trying to blame their lack of surveillance on the parents, on the prosecutor, but you can tell from his interview where he said he "intuitively thinks they're not dangerous" the real reason why.

He's spinning, hence the "prosecutor is new, we are so exasperated" open comments on allegedly not knowing about the charges before the press conference.

But really. That video speaks volumes.

I forgot about the NRA. They've been really quiet. What happened to that cunt spokeswoman they had?

Prosecutor is adding "terrorism" charges--which will result in her getting terror threats from MAGATs.

The parents need to get locked up pending trial because they are clearly a flight risk. Despite their attorney's protests that they just intended to turn themselves in today, they don't know what all the fuss is about? 😇

R53 isn’t much a lawyer if he doesn’t understand that the parents are being charged for abetting four murders. They substantively created an environment in which the murders could take place and showed zero interest when multiple interventions were attempted by school administrators. They didn’t even care about their sons well-being enough to take him home from school after being asked by administrators to do so, and only thought to check on the handgun they purchased for their minor son after reports of a school shooting emerged.

It is also logically inconsistent for R53 to bemoan people not getting facts straight, going so far as to suggest political and racial animus, while in the next breath attempting to diagnose at a distance possible mental illness and bullying of the killer.

I hope R53 goes into politics like most failed lawyers because with such logic and rhetorical talents he probably isn’t successfully defending many people.

On the Daily Mail, the Trumpsters and NRA fans are blaming the shooting on "bullying". Which is ironic, because Trumpsters are usually big fans of bullying and humiliating other people.

What I want to know is why are these parents being charged?

How many other parents have been negligent when their kids shoot up a school?

How come many sets of parents haven’t been charged up to this point?

I was hearing on the radio that these lowlifes have many criminal charges themselves from years before. Is that why?

They’re white trash so they can charge them?

R81, I don’t know of any other cases in which a school shooter was actually given the gun they used by their parents. I know of several in which the child secretly took a gun belonging to their parents. I know in Columbine, the shooters got the guns themselves, as did the Parkland shooter. I know Adam Lanza was given his guns by his mother but he killed her so charging her was not an option.

Do you have any examples in which a parent gave their child a gun, was called to school for an intervention surrounding threatening behavior exhibited by their child after the gift of said gun and then refused to take the child home as requested by school administration all resulting in multiple deaths? Do any of those examples feature parents who counseled their child a day before a shooting to do a better job at not getting caught when exhibiting concerning behavior?

Do you have any evidence that these parents are being mistreated because of their race or economic status are are you just being a shit-stirrer by asking obtuse questions?

How cute a family photo for their Christmas cards, courtesy of the State of Michigan.

R82 Lanza's mother was LUCKY he shot her. That bitch ignored ALL the red flags.

Yes, R81, it's because they're white trash. 🙄

They gave their kid a gun and when told that he was drawing violent imagery and googling ammo, mommy "LOL'd." they school wanted them to take him home and opted to keep him in class.

You seriously believe the parents have no role in their fucking kid doing this? Meanwhile, the same MAGAt assholes doing everything to absolve these parents, would blame every member of a minority group if one so much as jaywalks anywhere on the planet.

The* school

The mother basically told him it's fine to do whatever he wants just don't get caught.

Let their hero tRump help them.

[quote] I don’t know of any other cases in which a school shooter was actually given the gun they used by their parents

The parents gifted the gun to their son. He was with the father when it was purchased. He was taken to a shooting range to practice with the mother. The parents kept the gun locked and placed in a dresser drawer in their bedroom. So far, no evidence when the shooter took the gun. So far, no evidence the parents knew he took the gun or if he knew where the gun was kept.

R88, the prosecutors say that the gun was kept in an unlocked drawer. The defense attorneys contest this, but they’ve bent the truth before, claiming that the couple wanted to turn themselves in when in fact they were running from the police.

The gun itself was locked. I thought that's what the prosecutor said.

R90, the prosecutor said that investigation had revealed that the gun was kept in an unlocked drawer.

[quote] The parents gifted the gun to their son.

Gifted? Okay…

CNN: During Saturday's arraignment, defense lawyers denied prosecutors' contentions that the parents gave Ethan Crumbley unfettered access to the gun he's accused of using. Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald has alleged that James Crumbley on November 26 bought the gun at a store in Oxford, and that the parents gave the weapon to their son as an early Christmas present.

During Saturday's arraignment, McDonald said, "It's ... clear from the facts that (Ethan Crumbley) had total access to this weapon," and that the parents "didn't secure (the gun) and they allowed him free access to it."

James Crumbley shook his head as McDonald made both statements.

One of the parents' attorneys, Shannon Smith, countered during the hearing that "the gun was actually locked."

"When the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true," Smith said. "This court is going to see ... there is far more going on than what this court has been made aware of."

Why the fuck do these parents have a bond when they already tried to escape?

R94 I know! I couldn't believe it either.

It does sound weird, doesn't it? But it's a full cash bond. So they'd have to come up with a million. Or $500k and decide which one gets out. (Could you imagine that discussion? If the couldn't afford insurance for their Kia*, they sure won't be able to come up with that, not even 10% under normal circumstances. They probably don't have friends with resources.

*Their 2021 Kia. Amazing how they can budget for a brand new car, but whine about not being able to afford to insure it. Typical stupid Trumptards who need a grievance to hold onto more than they need to breathe. What's wrong with going to Car Max and buying something at half the price and using the savings to be a responsible motorist? Yeah, right.

[quote]If the couldn't afford insurance for their Kia*, they sure won't be able to come up with that, not even 10% under normal circumstances. They probably don't have friends with resources.

Some guy like Ricky Schroeder will bail them out - or some other NRA loon with deep pockets. There are lots of them!

"the gun was locked" is lawyer speak for "the safety was on" it doesn't mean the gun was secured under lock and key.

Thoughts and prayers, for them all to be murdered in jail!

[quote]Were the Columbine shooters parents neglectful? It's been so long I can't remember if they scrutinized or not?

One of them does TED talks about how her some was an angel until the other one "broke" him and turned him into a monster. The denial is strong with her.

her "son", fuck.

[quote]One of them does TED talks about how her some was an angel until the other one "broke" him and turned him into a monster. The denial is strong with her.

Do you mean Dylan Klebold's mother? I don't know - I think she took responsibility for what he did & acknowledged the hurt he caused. But she also remembers him as the kid she loved and probably blames Harris too much for leading her little boy astray when he was clearly a very active participant.

I always wondered what happened to the parents of the VA Tech shooter; they were South Korean immigrants running a dry cleaning business - not gun nuts, but completely unprepared to deal with a mentally ill kid

Yes, I too am shocked that a white couple got bond.

Just read on CNN that charges against school staff may be pending.

[quote] Someone call Dog the Bounty Hunter, NOW!

He’s been stuck in a conference room for months. Still can’t figure out that the door is pull, not push.

Aren't the parents of the school shooters being sued now, for civil damages? I thought that happened with some of the previous ones.

R102 the "everything is race" may play well to the scolds on Twitter but it's going to get you eyerolls here.

[quote]R102 the "everything is race" may play well to the scolds on Twitter but it's going to get you eyerolls here.

Oh, no, not eyerolls from assholes currently going off about VP Harris' leadership and ignoring that Pence had SEVERAL who left his staff in the first year or whining about a black Annie.

Oh, yes. I'm sure that if this were a black or Muslim couple who gave their kid a gun and then went on the lamb, they would get bond, too. 🙄

R107 you sound ridiculous and obsessive.

Several years ago, a neighbor called CPS on the Crumbley parents. They left Ethan alone when he was “8 or 9” while they went out and partied.

(Ethan would go to the neighbor and ask to use the phone.)

One of the upsides of Covid lockdowns was that it put a pause on the near daily cavalcade of mass shootings. One of the reasons little Kyle and little Ethan got so much press is the dearth of mass murder in the news. There are only so many scare pieces about the looming threat of right wing militias and radicalized Trumpers you can run when in reality it's the armed crazies going berserk for their own Jokerlike reasons who are the real threat to life and limb in this country.

[quote] "the gun was locked" is lawyer speak for "the safety was on" it doesn't mean the gun was secured under lock and key.

No. There are actual gun locks so a gun will not work. They can be opened via key or coded tumbler device. All new guns come with some kind of lock.

[quote]It was a two-sided question vis-a-vis responsibility/blame shifting. From your response it sounds like the blame is being shifted FROM the boy TO his parents. However, the question still remains: Why, then, try the 15-year-old as an adult if the responsibility is being transferred to his parents?

I think that question only "remains" for you, and no one else. The boy was fully responsible for the shooting as an adult who knew what he was doing, AND ALSO the parents are fully responsible for arming a highly disturbed young man even after urgent warnings from the school.

The powers that be are alo trying to shift all the blame from the school to the parents. Schools actually have experts in child behavior and they have been trained to spot red flags and what to do - this has been going on for decades in school since Columbine. The school did not check the backpack or the locker - 2 easy things to do. Even not knowing he had access to a gun, they could have discovered more writings - which we know existed - and they would have likely found the gun or ammunition. The school knew from its training that the kid had red flags - you do not call up parents to have them decide what to do – the parents are not trained for this – the school is.

Parents rarely have any expertise in child psychology unlike schools do and these parents don't seem like the brightest parents anyway. I am unsure if this child had any prior violent behavior. I thought that he didn't but unsure about that.

Further it was the school who had the authority to remove him from school immediately. I have now read there may have been a police officer on premises at the time, but I am unsure how accurate that report is. Spectacular failings all around but charging a crime that requires causation is not the answer. And, no, failure to act like this has never been defined as legal causation in the criminal sense. There are other crimes in some states that are used for this behavior or lack thereof such as reckless handling of a firearm, etc. A negligence theory based on failure to act is a civil matter.

I still say 15 is very young to be removed to adult court without an extensive evaluation of him. There was no reason to rush that decision once he was safely in custody. Removal to adult court could have been done at a later time if that seems appropriate but then the prosecutor could not have made her spectacular press conference as she did complete with her unethical statements.

R110, you seriously learned nothing from the facts of the Rittenhouse case or trial. None of your screed applies to "little Kyle". But for some ignorant reason you can't help yourself from fucking that chicken. You are part of the problem when facts are too inconvenient to your politics.

You might think about placing the blame for Kenosha where that belongs: squarely on the shoulders of Gov. Evers, who despite seeing a riot occurring the night of the 24th with protestors carrying guns and other weapons, refused to order in the Guard. How about we charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter because surely his failure to act caused deaths not to mention over $50 million in damage to businesses and other property owners - as well as other physical injuries and job losses.

R113, the primary responsibility lies with the shooter and the persons who procured the gun and made it available to him. The school may have some secondary responsibility on the order of negligence, but that's nothing compared to actually providing a gun to one's kid.

The decision to charge as an adult is surely dependent in part upon the severity of the crime committed. This teenager chose to commit mass murder. That's not a juvenile offense, period, end stop.

As for the school having more experience with mentally disordered youths, the parents are pretty obviously a case of "fuck you, you don't get to tell me how to raise my kids" parents. If the school offered help, pleaded with them to get their kid help, demanded they get their kid help, and the parents refused, there's not much more the school can do besides suspend or expel the kid - and for that, they need grounds. Personally, I think they had the grounds to move immediately to suspension or expulsion, so I guess we're going to have to find out why the principal decided otherwise.

I've got relatives who suffer from narcissism/paranoia/siege mentality. They told their two kids they were a family of geniuses and as such didn't have to listen or do anything that anyone else told them to do. The kids both acted out and were bullied in school. The district begged and pleaded with their parents to get help. The district had a program for families with kids who had troubles in school. The parents adamantly refused, believing it was a ploy by the district to find grounds to take their kids away from them.

Both of their kids ended up kicked out of every school they attended. They're now in their mid- and late-twenties, still living at home, playing computer games and such. Of course, it's everyone else's fault but their parents. And now that they're unemployed adults, they're all mad "the government" because they can't get on disability. . . not after their parents spending their childhood years denying that their kids could possibly have any kind of disability or need any kind of intervention.

The Crumbleys remind me so, so much of my relatives.

[quote] This teenager chose to commit mass murder. That's not a juvenile offense, period, end stop.

That's not how it works. Many juvenile offenders who commit murders remain in the juvenile system. That's why a full evaluation needed to be done to see if it was appropriate under Michigan law to remove-- him from juvenile court.

In Michigan, a father was charged and convicted of involuntary manslaughter for having an unlocked gun cabinet from which his son removed a gun which he used to kill himself.

If a judicial system would charge the parent who had just lost a child, then these two should easily be convicted. Their case will involve a lot of background, stories of their neglect, and probably abuse, will come out as a way to show that they substantively contributed to the four murders by creating an environment which not just allowed, but AIDED in this crime.

As to whether their charging should result in a reduction of charges against the son, I would point to the old legal maxim about the man who drives the bank robber to the bank. The charging of accessories hardly ever results in a reduction of charges, unless the accessory was present and the primary defendant cooperates and through their testimony can implicate the accessory further.

[quote] [R113], the primary responsibility lies with the shooter and the persons who procured the gun and made it available to him. The school may have some secondary responsibility on the order of negligence, but that's nothing compared to actually providing a gun to one's kid.

R113 sounds like whacko J-Mac and her unreal legal takes.

[quote] If a judicial system would charge the parent who had just lost a child, then these two should easily be convicted. Their case will involve a lot of background, stories of their neglect, and probably abuse, will come out as a way to show that they substantively contributed to the four murders by creating an environment which not just allowed, but AIDED in this crime.

Indeed, R117. The media (aka Detroit Free Press) is already writing that neighbors anonymously contacted CPS in regards the Crumbley’s parenting of Ethan. (They would leave him home alone without any means of contact, while they went to bars in Lake Orion. Ethan would go to the neighbors and ask for assistance. When the Crumbleys were confronted, they also blew this off. Neighbor has receipts.)

R113 / R116 is a lawyer with really bad legal takes.

R119 sounds like the neglected half-brother is the lucky one. But he does live in Florida so could be a POS too.

[quote] I always wondered what happened to the parents of the VA Tech shooter; they were South Korean immigrants running a dry cleaning business - not gun nuts, but completely unprepared to deal with a mentally ill kid

The Va. Tech shooter's sister wrote a very thoughtful, apologetic letter that was published in some newspaper (I can't remember where). I don't believe the parents ever spoke out though.

[quote]The media (aka Detroit Free Press) is already writing that neighbors anonymously contacted CPS in regards the Crumbley’s parenting of Ethan. (They would leave him home alone without any means of contact, while they went to bars in Lake Orion.)

I don't doubt you, R119, but what do you mean by "without any means of contact?" Couldn't he have reached the parents by phone?

That’s just it, R122. They left the eight-year-old Ethan without access to a phone while they were out partying.

Hence going to the neighbors to use the phone.

Thanks, R123. I didn't realize he was only eight at the time.

As someone who worked in Upper MI schools, it's just a microcosm of what goes on in urban areas, like downstate MI. For sure, the school seems to have dropped the ball, judging what my school's procedure was for these situations. BUT, the parents raised this kid, made a military style pistol available to him... the whole thing's insane. I can tell you how hard it is to hold parents accountable anymore, and the schools are always afraid of being sued. The parents know it, and even the kids know it. Between Covid and crazy parents and their fucked up kids, I took an early retirement.

The parents never grew up themselves and ignored their kid when he became an inconvenience. And when he was old enough they included him in their partying, including with guns.

It's sad. The more I hear about how awful the parents were the more sorry I feel for the shooter.

And for some reason that makes me wonder what Donald J. Trump would have done, had he been raised in this decade.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The parents are all about themselves and left their son hanging. So much for these "caring and family value" people. I strangely feel sorry for Ethan, having these two idiots in his life.

Eugh what is that creature in orange below Ethan?

R129 His public defender, Paulette Michel Loftin. I won't attack her, because I respect any lawyer acting as a public defender.

His parents have hired big name defense attorney Shannon Smith(pictured below) that "helped represent USA Gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar in his sexual assault trial; Dr. Jumana Nagarwala's female mutilation trial - a first in the country - which ended with charges being dismissed; and MSU football player Josh King's sexual misconduct trial, which ended with a probation sentence."

If you are a public defender of a shitty client, I respect that. But, if you just go out of your way to defend high profile shitty clients, I have no respect for you.

I won't attack her either for the same reaaon, but damn that photo is unfortunate.

And I'm actually saddened but not surprised the parents would hire a lawyer for themselves but leave their son with a public defender. Putting yourself in their place you could make the case that they did it because he's a minor and they figured he wouldn't get as harsh a sentence, but either way that is pretty cold and heartless.

And it definitely reinforces that the parents weren't interested in parenting and saw him more as a burden.

I know their type too; they live to "stick it to the libs" and other authority figures. The way the mother told the son not to get caught next time was just chilling, but also a big red flag of the parents' disdain for authority figures, and that is a big bright arrow pointing to a MAGA mindset.

R131 Yeah, I haven't looked up to see if there is a better photo. There is a watermark on it, the DM just pulled it from something called lawyers.com. So maybe it wasn't her best photo.

Where the fuck does his lawyer get off calling this an “isolated incident”? He murdered four people. And if he had wanted to continue his education he had a chance to do so… by going to school and not killing anyone! I bet he is regretting his choices big-time especially now that his parents have essentially abandoned him to the wolves.

The parents never noticed that their kid looked like he was possessed by the Devil?

I suspect the parents are being funded by right wingers. They love their precious guns so much, they are worried about more parents getting charged when their kids blow up schools. They won't bother defending the kid, as they don't really give a fuck about the kids, he's no Kyle Rittenhouse.

R135 The thing is real gun people, not the crazy gun people, blame the parents. I've heard so many people, who have guns and have always had guns, who very much support the 2nd Amendment, but they are like, especially if you have kids in the house, guns are kept in gun safes. Also, you they don't even let their teens have free access to them, except for BB guns, until they know they can properly handle them and view them not as a toy.

These parents are crazy gun people they have no respect for the weapon and what it can do. As one of the real gun people said to me, "people like them do more harm to gun rights than anyone."

R136 those sound like responsible gun owners. They make up a decreasing minority of gun owners now.