Tasteful Friends Thanksgiving Edition - $10 Million 4 Bedroom Apartment At The Apthorp

More:

A beautiful apartment ina gerat building, less three things, one important the others not:

-Barely raised above street level on West End Avenue (If it were whisper-quiet, I could live with it.)

-The chandeliers (a given in very nearly every property, really.)

-That tacky white painted radiator grille (seen in the photo below under the window on the left in the living room; they're okay in the other rooms against white walls, but against the oak woodwork, upgrade to a bronze one, for fuck's sake)

Rooms are quite handsome, well-proportioned. I like the kitchen. Bathrooms are fine (and I like that they didn't destroy the plan to fit a giant bathroom in place for each of the three West End Ave facing bedrooms. The upstairs gallery with the mosic marble floor is lovely, and the detailing in the living room, and the huge windows everywhere, and good floors. I like that it has three entrances, and that it's a wonderful, bright space great fro hanging big pictures.

It's an elegant space and comfortable, too, and uncomonly bright. Whoever renovated it let the architecture speak for itself and didn't fuck it all to hell to shoe-horn in a half-dozen bathrooms and tear down walls. Usually when I see a renovated apartment it's an instant list of all the tings they shouldn't have done; here the big fault is that white radiator in the living room - a remarkably tiny thing.

The West End Avenue thing is what brings it down. $10M for a street that feels like a bus route —and at street level, too— makes me think of apartments in grand UES buildings for $4M to $7M that I like as well.

Taxes and condo fees are $6,700/mo. Not surprising, but in the same league as many co-op fees across town where it's boring and quiet like I like and where you don't see the tops of people's heads and trucks streaming by your windows every day.

Compared to Broadway, West End is rather like heaven I should think. Far more quiet and residential feeling at the "back" of the Apthorp

That's certainly true, R3, or I should think it is. Even when new, the Broadway ground floor spaces were commercial, not residential, as seen in this plan. The fenestration was originally like that of the other street elevations, but that got done over as big commerical windows in time.

In the upper right corner, the salmon-colored apartment fronting on West End Ave. is the one currently for sale. You can see some fairly modest adjustments to the original plan that preserve the feel of the original if not every servcie detail (they pushed the stair back to occup a space that had been a pantry, for instance; reworked the kitchen, doing away with the servants' stair, and stealing away the old servants bedroom to combine with some other apartment, evidently. A lot of changes, really, but I credit them with a sensitive job of it — much better than the usual.

What’s going on outside the kitchen windows? It looks like an enclosed outdoor space but there’s no way to access it.

I hate that dark kitchen island with the fire of 1000 suns. Very ugly cabinetry throughout that reminds me of The Sims.

Yeah, R6, I would have that island and all the kitchen cabinetry painted. I'm not a fan of the surgical white-on-white kitchen thing. There's an ugly storage cabinet along the seating area wall that I assume is furniture as it's not shown on the plan. That would go, too.

I love everything about it. Wouldn't change a thing. If only I had a spare 10 million.

Are you people shopping for apartments in "grand UES buildings for $4M to $7M" or UWS $10M flats? Hmmmm?

I’d take the UWS, personally, although if I had $10 million I wouldn’t be spending it in New York. I don’t have the toughness required by the big Apple.

It's the gardens, r5. You can access them through the large archways. I would suspect some of the ground floor units have a door out to them as well.

[quote]Barely raised above street level on West End Avenue

There is virtually no commerce on West End Avenue, so it is an oasis of calm compared to Broadway.

[quote]What’s going on outside the kitchen windows? It looks like an enclosed outdoor space but there’s no way to access it.

It's the courtyard.

Wasn't there a tacky Sharon Stone movie filmed there?

Is that the building that had the GAY bathhouse in the 1970's?

No, r15, that was the Ansonia, 74th/75th and Broadway.

Don't know about Sharon Stone, r14. Meryl Streep's character's parents lived here in Heartburn. She escapes Washington, DC, and her marriage, by returning to the Apthorp.

Apartment was purchased back in 2017 for about $8.7 million IIRC. If this is correct four years seems an awfully short time to live in a place before selling.

Don't know if any interior shorts were done inside the Apthorp for film 'Heartburn", but plenty of outdoor were.

[quote]There is virtually no commerce on West End Avenue, so it is an oasis of calm compared to Broadway.

Everything is relative, of course. I'm spoiled by living in a pedestrian city of narrow streets. Six lanes (2 parking) on W. 79th and 5 lanes (2 parking) on West End Ave. looks like it would be noisy as fuck on first floor. And it's less the noise itself than the rumbling that would bother me, though I acclimate quickly. I hope the windows are sturdy as fuck to match the construction and to minimize sound; but then there's always the courtyard side of things which isn't so very bad and has to be deadly quiet.

IIRC Nora Ephron was still living or maybe had moved out by then of the Apthorp, hence location choice.

R19

Take it from those of us who do live in NYC, in particular Manhattan and know UWS. West End Avenue is dead quiet compared to Broadway one block over.

Celebrities who have called the Apthorp home over the years include Rosie O’Donnell, Conan O’Brien, the journalist Steve Kroft, Robert DeNiro, the writer Nora Ephron and colorful 1980s pop icon Cyndi Lauper, according to published reports.

I vaguely remember that the Apthorp (like the Ansonia) took a while to go co-op because it was so big and full of long-time rent-controlled tenants. Both buildings were still pretty dumpy long after the surrounding neighborhoods had gentrified.

From my favorite Manhattan architecture blog...

Oh the battles that went on in this place!

Like many old NYC multi-family buildings by 1970's the Apthorp was full of rent controlled and stabilized tenants paying comparatively little money per month for those grand pre-war apartments. This was same up and down Upper West Side which was a different place back then. It goes without saying just like the Astor and other pre-war buildings the Apthorp had seen better days.

In the great wave of condo or co-op conversions that ran amuck starting in 1980's through 1990's and beyond the Apthorp changed hands, and new owners had plans for dressing up the place to attract a better tenancy. Those plans included getting shot of as many rent regulated tenants as possible. What resulted was endless court drama that lasted years.

Cindy Lauper fought and eventually won a legal battle to have her rent reduced from over three thousand to barely one thousand at the time.

Ms. Lauper's apartment drama.

Quick run down of ten grand Upper West Side pre-war hotels and apartment buildings.

Most of the huge full or half city block courtyard buildings on UWS were originally hotels of some sort. Usually resident version where people rented an apartment but maid service, laundry, restaurant and other services were offered.

By 1950's or 1960's and well into 1980's or so if you knew where and how to look could score a rent regulated apartment in one of these buildings. Many did convert to condos or co-ops but nearly all were non-eviction plans. Meaning if you were rent regulated nothing really changed and you couldn't be touched long as you paid rent on time and otherwise didn't violate terms of lease.

R23

Condo conversion at the Apthorp was a hot mess for many reasons. Rent regulated tenants were certainly part of issue, but there were other things as well.

More:

One former resident's story who recently moved out of the Apthorp, during covid crisis no less.

As you can see from video in R21, West End avenue from roughly 59th to well into hundreds is perfectly charming. IMHO streets better than Broadway or Amsterdam.

Quiet, with a mix of beautiful buildings, family orientated. That stretch of West End is probably one of the more upscale on UES of the avenues, right up there with Central Park West.

I don't live in NY any longer, but if I did, I'd want to live on or off WEA. It's convenient to Broadway shopping, and in winter, it's not quite as cold as walking on Riverside Drive, which is my actual favorite street in NY.

It reminds me of Charlotte's apartment on Sex in the City! But the upper west side is dangerous!

Ugh, the kitchen and the living room are on the GROUND FLOOR. You can see vehicles. For $10 M? No thanks.

This is a joke, right?

Beverly D'Angelo and Al Pacino moved into the Apthorp after their Hamptons house burned down.

Nora Ephron's ode to the Apthorp. To paraphrase, "The water ran brown, there were rats and mice. My friend Rosie moved in and decorated her apartment with Happy Meal toys. All was well until kids couldn't ride their bikes in the courtyard because limousines took it over."

[quote]But the upper west side is dangerous!

Honey, West Side Story took place 60 years ago.

It was like the Dakota's slutty younger sister.

I remember reading a Nora Ephron story about living there, probably that New Yorker piece. Rent controlled, huge apt, like ten rooms. Groveling to the landlord if needing him to fix something but usually not daring to ask. Going through torture every time the lease needed to be renewed. It was such a good deal despite the many problems living there. Eventually it came to an end and she moved to the upper east side.

And then she died.

Nora Ephron always rubbed me the wrong way.

R11

Unless am mistaken only way to access courtyard is via four entry points at each corner of building. That goes for first (second floor to Americans) units and all.

Ground floor at the Apthorp is retail, and rear of those spaces open onto courtyard.

This was one of huge issues with courtyard buildings, and one reason why they went out of favor with developers. By 1940's or so developers lucky enough to have a full or half block of property did things like Manhattan House apartments.

Problem with courtyard buildings is access points for building will influence floorplans. Having entryways in four corners of building is fine if you're doing full or maybe half floor apartments stretching between each entry/exit. But doing things smaller means finding space for common areas and corridors.

Chief reason behind courtyard buildings was same as palaces, castles and other grand buildings in Europe. Cross ventilation suppled by windows opening onto front and rear of building was top of that list.

If you slice apartments by say creating common corridor with units on either side, there goes cross ventilation. Happily by 1920's and certainly 1950's advances in HVAC systems meant air can be forced circulated through buildings for ventilation. This was also reflected in changes to building codes.

Here in NYC for example kitchens and bathrooms must either have a window (opening onto courtyard, air shaft, street....), or vent for mechanical exchange of air. Most pre-war buildings you find windows in those rooms. Things built say after WWII tend to go with mechanical venting.

Nora Ephron's "love letter" to the Apthorp as appeared in New Yorker magazine.

Before anyone starts moaning, you'll need to enable setting of cookies for link to work properly, otherwise New Yorker mag won't allow story to come up.

More....

Actually well into 1970's Upper West Side was rather dangerous. You had a serial killer of young minority boys (Chop Off Charlie) on the lose, and all sorts of other problems.

Truth to tell UWS never lived wholly up to its rival across Central Park, the UES.

Huge areas of UWS were designated urban renewal districts and which lead to things being pulled down, and various federal housing projects going up. There are none, zero, nil, public housing on UES from 57th street north to about 97th or higher from Fifth to Lexington or Third avenue. Meanwhile there are fuck tons of public housing on UWS including on or just off Central Park West going west to Columbus, Amsterdam, Broadway....

What UWS had (and still does) was a huge amount of SROs, tenements, residential hotels, and grand pre-war apartment buildings that by 1970's long had seen better days. The first several mentioned began filling up with mentally ill (thanks to deinstitutionalization), prostitutes, drug dealers, addicts, and so forth.

Broadway and 88th in 1971

More about UWS in 1960's and 1970's

Never a fan of the UWS. The description of it as “bus route” is unique and dead on. Not the beauty and crispness of prime UES. The best part of UWS - brownstones - are all the same.

Film Hannah and her Sisters used Mia Farrow's real life apartment for some location shooting.

"Mia Farrow was still in the building in 1986 when she starred in Hannah and Her Sisters. When her film character, Hannah, hosted her Thanksgiving dinner the scene was shot in Farrow’s Langham apartment. The actress enjoyed rent control for her 11-room apartment paying $1,800 a month in 1987. "

Mia Farrow had a huge rent regulated unit in Langham Apartments on CPW. IIRC her final rent was well north of $2500 after unit was deregulated, and Ms. Farrow decided to move out.

For record Mia Farrow, Nora Ephron, and Cyndi Lauper weren't or aren't still the only rich and famous living or lived in cheap rent regulated housing on UWS. They had plenty of company, and would still if luxury deregulation didn't force many to make a move.

Ironically 2019 rent regulations did away with luxury deregulation so those people now who are very well off can still keep their cheap "affordable" rent regulated apartments. Their children or others are free to "inherit" them as well....

So much whining!

Nothing is as good as it was when we were younger, often only because we were younger to enjoy it.

I moved to a less desirable part of the UWS in 1981 and it was pretty tatty and grimy with lovely stretches in between. I never enjoyed such grand stabilized accommodations as some, but a couple apartments I lived in were rest-stabilized and affordable. Signing one's new stabilized lease is automatic, that's the best thing about them, they have to renew your lease if you've paid your rent and they don't have to like you at all!

The whole city had far more working class people because it was far more sketchy and the demand for luxury simply was not there. Landlords appreciated good, quiet tenants who paid on time and there was certainly more charm, but it came at the price of all the urban issues like crime and severe underfunding of all infrastructure. The city was a fucking dump and nothing worked. Nothing! Still, it was no punishment to be poor or working class, everything other than rent was pretty affordable and my happiest years were spent on the UWS.

Except for The Dakota, all other UWS buildings are crap.

Broadway and 72nd (now extremely upscale) was still pretty dumpy when Rhoda tried to grab a cab there to her wedding at 38:00.

Well they've cleaned up Verdi Square, that's something anyway....

You UWS nay-sayers can have your sterile Upper East Side. I live a few blocks to the south of the Apthorp and am perfectly happy in my 1920s 2-bedroom apartment. I'm a block from Central Park, a short walk in one direction to Lincoln Center, and in the other direction, to the New-York Historical Society and the American Museum of Natural History. There are five subway lines within a couple of blocks of my door that can get me almost anywhere in the city (though not to the Upper East Side).

Verdi Square, of course, used to be known as "Needle Park."

The Upper East Side in general is dull or fratty depending on the neighborhood - UWS is a much nicer place to live.

[quote]Verdi Square, of course, used to be known as "Needle Park."

And right across Amsterdam was my favorite slice joint (before I moved to the Village and discovered Ray's).

Tagging onto my post at R42 you can see from original floorplans for 4th to 11th floors what one described.

Apartments facing Broadway and West End avenue were almost basically full floor units, that is they took up space between entrances/exits between each two corners of building.

Units facing 78th and 79th streets ran generally half floor (between each entrance/exit). An interior stairwell (service?) seems to divide these two units on each floor. But note as stated because these apartments span space between avenue and courtyard you can only access or leave from common corridor/elevator area that serves each particular side of building. Well that or go to basements or wherever and take service elevator/stairs up which give access to units on both halves.

What you've got in middle with that grand courtyard is tons of wasted space amplified by arrangements of apartments.

With something like Manhattan House you can fully utilize a full block property by maybe not only building taller, but gain density by creating more apartments per floor.

Note on two lower floors apartments on West End and Broadway sides of building are broken up by need to accommodate arched entry/exit to courtyard.

I love your sense of humor R58.

As one stated previously you can see from plans for First floor you cannot get to courtyard from apartments other than going back out through main entrance/exit off courtyard.

Lower floor apartments facing West 79th street were also broken up by need to accommodate service drive/entryway. Many grand courtyard buildings long closed and or even sealed up these service driveways. This or they were early on closed and opened only for things such as funerals/removing caskets/coffins/bodies of deceased from building.

Now bit of more history...

When Apthorp went up ground floor commercial or retail tenants were an anathema to the strictly high end residential nature of buildings. The Apthorp got around this by creating duplex units on West End side of building that took up ground/first floors. These were originally intended and leased to physicians for use as offices.

OTOH the Broadway side was hopeless. Being one of the busiest avenues on UWS noise, traffic and few other things meant those spaces really were best suited to some sort of commercial/retail use.

Apthorp solved this by creating a very tasteful banking space on 79th street side, and pharmacy on 78th. To this day there has always been a bank located at 79th street side of building. In original floorplans that space is shown as "banking & safety deposit boxes"....

R58

Dream on!

UES from Fifth to Lexington at least is quiet, clean, relatively safe and everything else one could wish from a residential area of Manhattan.

UWS OTOH is very much a block, by block thing, and overall few stretches remotely have cachet of UES.

Over years there have been attempts such as Riverside Drive, but things never took.

If you get off a cross town bus say from East 79th and Park to West 80th and Columbus you notice at once things are vastly different. CPW is all very well I suppose, but Columbus, Amsterdam and Broadway between say 59th and 96th have never approached same area of UES, and everyone knows this....

Who needs so many bedrooms? Who’s moving in, the von Trapp family?

[quote]Apartments facing Broadway and West End avenue were almost basically full floor units, that is they took up space between entrances/exits between each two corners of building.

r60, I think you're focusing too much on the color. This is a floorplan showing 10 different apartments, A through K. Each apartment has a big bold letter in its foyer.

It is a majestic building. I have always admired its beautiful exterior. But it is sooo old, maintenance and repairs could wipe you out.

[quote]But it is sooo old, maintenance and repairs could wipe you out.

The monthly fees and property taxes are $6700, more or less evenly split between building fees and tax. How much more do you think it will cost to maintain? They renovated the hell out of the building ($95M initially budgeted in 2007), and from all appearances did a quality job. I should think repairs would amount to pocket change, relatively speaking.

The age of the building isn't a concern —it's less than 115 years old, or younger than 12 of 13 houses or apartment buildings I've lived in. The bigger concern is quality of construction. Plaster walls are forever, and easily repaired. Drywall, however, which only became popular after WWII, has a 30-70 year life expectancy, and often has to be replaced in part or whole if there is a problem. Kitchen appliances have a short expected life span of less than a 6-12 years, but it doesn't matter if you're in a 6-year-old house or a 600-year-old house, the appliances in either case will in all likelihood be quite new. Kicthen cabinetry of decent quality is expected to last 50 years. Plumbing, electricity and appliaces are concerns for any property, each has its own life expectancy: a toilet 50-100 years, copper pipes 70 years, copper wiring will last 100 years easily but the insulation may deteriorate in 25 years; a light fixture will last 10-15 years before needing repairs or replacement; electrical switches and outlets will last 20 years or more; a dryer vent will last maybe 5 years, the washer and dryer possibly twice that; ceramic or stone tile will last 75 years easily. But these things concerns are shared equally in old and new houses. Ceramic tile doesn't fall apart faster in an old house than in a new; the refrigerator doesn't go bad faster; the pipes don't fail faster.

This apartment isn't some former meth lab, abandoned for 60 years and infused with dryrot, damp, black mold, asbestos, aluminum and knob-&-tube wiring, and with a primitive outhouse out back. It doesn't have to be rescued because it was never in a perilous state, and huge sums have been spent renovating it. The things that will fall apart in your life time are things that would fall apart in a brand new house in your lifetime. The giant windows, the herrinbone and marble mosaic floors, the oak fireplace and finish carpentry, the plaster walls, these things will outlast you. The maintenance costs will be the same as if you had built a new house to a very high standard within the shell of a brick shithouse of an overengineered to last for the ages building.

Buying a 10 year old house in the suburbs would be a bigger maintenance headache because the roof, the appliances, some of the aspects of the electric system, the HVAC...all would be coming up fast for replacement or repairs, and those costs would represent a much larger percentage of the value of decent quality suburban house or McMansion or a new build apartment building from 10-15 years ago.

R67

No, don't believe one is going just by colors alone...

A-K gives you eleven apartments on floor. B, E, H and L are "corner" apartments if you will. Each of the four main halls serves two apartments at least except apparently for D, and F where there are three units off main hall.

Note only lower floors such as Third eleven apartments per floor. The aforementioned grand entry/exit way at West End avenue means "F" apartment on higher floors is split creating a "G" unit on opposite site of arch. At some point 3 F and G were combined to form one unit, "3FG".

Even with three apartments served by one main hall that doesn't compare with common corridors that stretch good part of building with apartments on either side. One obviously allows for more units per floor IMHO.

What is good about Apthorp original floor plans is you can see how easy it would be to combine certain apartments to make them even larger.

At least one crazy homeless person has made his home at 79th and Broadway for years now. He and his girlfriend are always causing problems, that is when they aren't wondering in and out of traffic, talking to people who aren't there and other fun things.

Then you have things like this recent event just outside Apthorp's doors.

From local UWS news media, West Side Rag...

Piece from 2017 about the "sweet spot" of UWS, west 70's.....

Since the Manhattan House apartments was already mentioned, lets compare floorplans.

You can see clearly while Manhattan House lacks grand stately apartments, it has plenty more units which makes for a more profitable building on a sales or rent per square foot basis.

Though probably not a fair one on one comparison since Manhattan House was built for middle and upper middle class with bit of those above.

R66 said " Who needs so many bedrooms? Who’s moving in, the von Trapp family?"

Don't knock it....

These huge old pre-war buildings on UWS with their generous floorplans and number of bedrooms are in high demand by families with lots of kids. In particular (no offence meant) certain Jewish families who then and now are known to have large families.

Generally called Classic "Five", "Six" or even "Seven" such apartments are again highly sought after, and rarely last long on market if rent/sales price is reasonable,

Those who bought years ago on UWS have seen their huge pre-war units appreciate very nicely. At other end those in such units that are still under rent regulation (and there are many from UWS north to Inwood/Washington Heights) aren't going anywhere unless feet first through front door in a box.