A Question for DL Catholics

I havent gone to confession in 2 decades but yeah, that is usually what it consists of. I guess. Mary is a big deal because not only is she the main female representation in the religion, she epitomizes the virgin earth mother archetype.

Catholics believe Jesus is busy. His mother has more time for your bullshit.

I remember it looking a lot like this.

If Joseph had been any kind of loving husband he woulda said, "Before she has your son, fix the fuckin gap in her teeth, tightwad!" But no, he just went along the subsidized, smiling at the camera route. Wastrel. Bless me Father for I have sinned, indeed!

[quote]Also why is Mary such a big deal for Catholics?

Why is MARY! such a big thing for homosexualists?

For Catholics, confession is a Sacrament and "Seven Hail Marys and five our Fathers, (for me) would be standard Penance! After all, it was instituted by Christ Himself: "Whose sins you should forgive, are forgiven and whose sins you should retain they are retained!" Luther and company did away with it because it was too cumbersome to administer ,and,hey! just give a general forgiveness and let Jesus do the math! (Just say'en)

The number of prayers and types of prayers are different. Your penance also depends on your sins as well.

Even though I have issues with the church, I'm glad Mary is recognized. She was chosen to carry and grow Jesus, I mean, give the lady her due! In a sense though, she is a sort of a mother for all Catholics.

I do remember being called a heathen once by a crazy born again Christian because of Mary, but that dude was a pedophilic asshole and he got his comeuppance.

I wonder what was in it for Joseph or was he just the first cuckold.

I'm not a Xtian any longer but am a cultural Catholic - Catholic school from K-B.A., altar boy for Mass, weddings, funeral and everything else, loved the gayness of the rituals and dress.

Confession's experience depends on the priest. Old-fashioned ones (I went to dishy young traditionalist at a French Latin-Mass reactionary oratory and burned his ears with my "sins") are silent behind the screen, detached and just wait to give a "penance" of a few prayers. The more-progressive ones do it face-to-face and are understanding and a bit counseling/therapy in their attitude. "Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been X weeks/months/years since my last confession. A statement that one is truly sorry closes the listing of sins being confessed.

Mary? Not just Catholics, please. Marian devotion started early, with Mary taking on the role seen with other maternal/intercession deities/religious figures. Some early sub-sects wanted Mary to be accepted as Holy Wisdom, or another aspect of the deity. The 19th-20th c. Catholics kept the flame going, with the lunatic Pacelli (Pius XII) going through the "bodily Assumption" business as a follow-up to the "Immaculate Conception" (which means she was born without original sin and human weakness) doctrine of the lunatic Pius IX (who kept a Jewish boy in the Vatican away from his family until he grew to be a priest).

Attended catholic school in the 90's (I'm a dirty heathen now). I feel like the "say 10 Hail Marys and all is forgiven" approach was from a decade or two before me. There's a certain rote script that you still followed, but it was more commonly face-to-face with the priest (a screen was available but as grade schoolers, we were not really made aware of it and non-anonymity was the usual format. The two-dark-booths format was completely foreign to my post-Vatican-II parish architecture.)

The priest also usually gave you a mini-homily related to your grave, grave grade-schooler transgressions. It was more of a dialogue than I see in movies. And the penances meted out were more socially conscious: Go make peace with this person or go do community service, etc. Spending the next 30 seconds rattling off a few hail marys was never offered.

Now I'm more curious. What kind of stuff would you confess? What if you had nothing to confess?

If you had nothing to confess, you made something up. Your whole class was in line, one after the other so you were going in, no questions asked.

Actually, now that I'm reflecting on it, I'm surprised they put us in a room alone with a priest even in the 90's. Over time, you'd more often have two chairs out in the open but on like the other side of the church: You couldn't hear what was being said but everything was fully visible. Probably a wise move.

It was also like a twice-a-year thing. Kind of like fire drills, you got the impression they had to get a couple in each year. Not like they made us do this every week.

I remember my first confession back in the 70s and I absolutely refused to go in the confessional booth. The nun in charge was about to whack me and my mother was mortified. The priest came out and talked to me one on one and gave me my penance and that was that.

Thank you, R9, you should write a column. Your presence here in the DL is sorely needed.

As a kid I felt wonderful after, because I believed I had been forgiven and I felt renewed, as much as a perfectly innocent child can feel renewed. As a total Atheist, I do believe that forgiveness is one of the main themes and challenges in our lives. I think wherever one can practice it, one should.

IDK, but SO is a non-practicing Catholic. He had to go to confession before acting as best man in his cousin's Catholic wedding. He confessed whatever he confessed, and the old Irish priest was all, "what about any self-abuse... any readin' of paaaarn-ah-graphic materials?" Old. dude was fishing.

My confessions were along the lines like “ I said curse words” or “I fought with my brother” or “I stole some of my sister’s Halloween candy”. I instinctively would have never confessed things I knew were really wrong or of a sexual nature.

I'm an eldergay and my first partner was much older than me so we are talking about the 1940s or 50s. At any rate when he was a teenager, he confessed to his priest that had masturbated. The priest told him that he a a disgrace before God, would probably end up rotting in Hell for eternity and gave him an endless list of things to do in penance, repeating how depraved and disgusting he was. He told the priest "Fuck you" and never set a foot in church again the rest of his life.

It's now called the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and you can do it face-to-face with the priest, or use the traditional divider for anonymity. I hear they now offer the Express Confessional for 10 Sins or Less.

They don’t make you say an x number of prayers any longer? I remember as a kid everyone making shit up as to what their sins were. And it usually was fighting with a sibling, not obeying parents, the basics. And I do remember the dark confessional booths that you see in the movies, pretty accurate. Scared some kids.

Mary isn’t revered as a saint, but given a role of acknowledgement for being the mother of Jesus. This is a topic the young, cute priests with YouTube channels all discuss under the false info about the CC. Check them out. Some of them can be very interesting. And the young priests are cute to look at. One included a segment on himself working out at the gym. These vids and their channels are easy to find.

Op — you should have done a poll on how many are ex-Catholics, and those who still are. I bet the former would win. There’s good cause for it.

[quote] Now I'm more curious. What kind of stuff would you confess?

Rape. Arson. Murder.

The usual.

Bless me father for I have sinned. It's been a very long time since my last confession.

I got bukake'd (pounded) last week by 5 large Afro-Brazilian cocks while super high on XTC for nearly 6 hours... other than that, I've followed the path of Christ our Lord and Saviour.

OK, 5 Hail Mary's? Done! Thank you Father.

R23 Did the priest hearing your confession ask you how he could get in contact with those 5 guys for himself?

Some contemporary parishes give the person a choice between the traditional confessional (where you can't see each other) and a reconciliation room, where you walk in and face the priest as you sit across from him in comfy chairs. Most sins are about losing one's anger, lying, cheating, drinking too much, but it can get more involved as with adultery, abusing a loved one, etc. Rarely will a priest hear a confession about murder or rape, but it's possible. When the priest gives a penance, he bases it on the sins confessed and how long it has been since there person's last confession. For example, if you haven't been to church in 20 years, your penance will be more involved, e.g., 5 Hail Marys, and 5 Our Fathers, or even a rosary or the Stations of the Cross.

Mary is more than a saint but less than God. And yes, you can pray to Mary.

I've disobeyed my parents, many times. I've taken the Lord's name in vain, many times. I've had sinful relations. Boys at my school. Many boys, many times. Father, there's one more thing...I loved every minute of it.

If the person "confesses" anything he's either not sorry for or doesn't believe is wrong, the priest can't forgive those. Sorry, Charlie.

With the father, son, holy spirit, Mary and all those saints, it’s hard to think of Catholics as monotheists.

One is obliged to go to confession if one intends to take communion at Mass on Sunday so if one follows this rule confession takes place every week. Wednesday used to be a popular day for confession when I was a boy No idea if this still holds true Priests keep confessional hours

Is it true that the priest can't tell on you if you admit to something really bad.

[Quote] why is Mary such a big deal for Catholics?

Because men are more apt to disappoint.

You're supposed to go to confession at least once per year. I don't know many Catholics who do.

I'm not sure you understand why children love going to confession.

The confession booth is open during the long, boring mass every Sunday. If you are stuck in mass with your parents and dying to get out, you can stretch a trip to the confession booth (with a trip to the water fountain and a trip to the bathroom) for a good fifteen minutes. That's almost a quarter of the mass that you can spend away from your pew. And then there is the fun of getting into a massive wooden booth with the wooden slats between you and the priest. There's the theatricality of it--the set, the props, the costumes, etc--about church that is very appealing to children.

So many of the rituals of catholic life are about allaying boredom (of catholic life).

My experience in the 90s -

Our teacher (a nun) would take us to confession as a class, so all the priests were on duty. We had a choice of going into a confessional booth (the dark screen separating you from the priest, like in the movies), a private room with two chairs where you sit face-to-face, or some screened-off areas around the church where you sit face-to-face.

You begin by reciting the “Bless me father for I have sinned” language quoted above.” Then you confess. There is always something to confess! “I raised my voice to my brother,” “I took the Lord’s name in vain,” etc. I would never, ever have confessed something scandalous…I tried to lawyer my way out by saying at the end, “and for anything else I did that I might have forgotten”—the priest would just nod, probably rolling his eyes internally. It was somewhat like a counseling session, where the priest would talk to you about why you disobeyed your mother and offer some suggestions about how to stay calm next time, or the like.

Then, the priest would pray over you, grant you absolution, and assign you a penance to do. Ours usually assigned prayers to say (three Hail Marys) but the more progressive or more tough priests would get more creative. “You lied to your mother, so you have to go home and tell her the truth.” Things like that.

And then you’d walk out and go kneel at the altar to do your prayers. I never felt particularly “cleansed.”

In high school, a girl in my class confessed to the priest that she’d had a beer at a party. He replied, “just because something is against the law doesn’t automatically make it a sin.” Haha.

Mary and Joseph are both very significant as role models to Catholics. There was a big emphasis on this in my Catholic school.

Mary teaches us to obey God no matter what he asks of us. This was often taught alongside the idea that people who feel a “calling” to become priests or nuns should obey that feeling. (One of my greatest fears as a child was that I would be “called” to this, lol.)

Joseph is similar, but also about having faith in others who are following God’s plan and putting God’s plans before yourself, even when something might be embarrassing to you personally. Joseph would have been walking around town with his pregnant girlfriend Mary, knowing it’s not his kid, and having to trust Mary that she didn’t cheat on him, it’s actually a miracle God baby. And Joseph was a stand up guy and married her, travelled to the manger with her, acted as a father to Jesus, and all of that. Joseph was a good dude.

Mary is absolutely a saint. She is called St Mary Mother of God for a reason.

In Catholicism, saints are people who are believed to have gotten into heaven. (The process of proving--according to the church--that someone is a saint has many qualifications--but the point that is being proved is that they got into heaven and thus can perform miracles for the living, etc.)

Mary is the only person (in the church) that we believe was "assumed" in heaven. Her assumption is a special day in the catholic calendar, and this notion that she went--body and spirit completely--into heaven is absolutely unique among any of the saints or normal people.

Catholics had to double down on the veneration of Mary after Lutherans and especially Calvinists challenged this during the 16th century.

We had to go to weekly confession at my Catholic parish school. Honestly how many "sins" can a 10 yr old have? So: Impure thoughts, impure actions, lying, disobedience, etc. That was about it. What was really important was instilling a sense of guilt and uncertainty in you. And fear of retibution, punishment. And that Men, especially priests, were SUPREME. Go watch that movie, Doubt, and you'll get an idea of the tone of the church. Meryl Steep's nun was someone I knew.

Sins are forgiven if you mean it. Forgeivebess is granted according to your conscience by God and the priest is the mere conduit. The whole of Reconciliation is to unburden yourself of the damage that guilt and hate - and in terms of this Sacrament, personal guilt and self-hate - bring upon yourself; and to go into the world and live your life accordingly, ie, when someone harms you, when you are ready, forgive them so you yourself do not carry that pain as (to put it in contemporary terms) a trauma.

If you rock up to Reconciliation tell the priest you cheated on your wife, jerked off to your neighbour’s daughter and pissed in your boss’ salad dressing and after some discussion he says, ok, here’s what I suggest you do in future, now go say x Our Fathers and y Hail Marys, and your response is to mumble the prayers as you sext your mistress then no, your sins aren’t forgiven, because you weren’t sorry for them in the first place.

Also, if you have committed a serious crime the priest will not offer you penance until you turn yourself into the police.

The most important thing for you to know OP, if you have kids in your family, especially boys, keep them as far away as possible from Catholic churches.

To the poster who asked about the priest’s confidentiality duty - I believe the priest will only share information from confession with outsiders if your or someone else’s life is in danger. But like in therapy, the priest can bring his problems to another priest to discuss.

[quote]I got bukake'd (pounded) last week by 5 large Afro-Brazilian cocks while super high on XTC for nearly 6 hours

What were your sins?

[quote]Forgeivebess is granted

Not to me!

The Virgin Mary didn’t have much of a role until the church was trying to convert pagans. They created a supernatural version of her so that pagans could relate to a female energy within the new religion.

BOY: Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been one week since my last confession.

PRIEST: Tell me your sins, my child.

BOY: Why? You were there.

I have to disagree that Joseph is venerated on anything like the level Mary is. He's not put forth as anyone's role model except occasionally, like on Father's Day during the homily or at Christmas. He's more like Mary's plus-one who's given his due for seeing her through all of that, even though it wasn't his kid. This is just in my experience, of course.

Everything is Mary this and Mary that. I've never quite understood it. I thought she was loose.

The image of Mary, who we were taught to revere is one of some benign goddess figure who is prayerful and who will "listen" to our petitions. But the real brains, Mary Magdalen, they suppressed and taught us that she was a sinner, who confessed and found "grace." They fucked Magdalen over and gave us this prototype for the docile, obedient prayerful loving Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus. Joseph was not important. He was merely a devout caretaker who allowed himself to be cuckolded by an Archangel, and God the Father. In real life Mary should have been stoned. But Joseph kept her secret. Or so they say.

For many, many centuries confession has been a great tool for the Church to keep control over the entire population of its domain: "We know everything bad that's been done by every one of you." This, and the threat of the imposition of "eternal damnation", together, constituted perfect and complete authority for domination over the entire population of the Church's empire. This is why Henry the VIII's divorce was such an earth-shattering thing for the Catholic Church - Henry stepped into the Pope's position as the top of the hierarchy, and thereby started the process that has, effectively, destroyed the Church's power as an institution. Good.

The primary reason that Mary is venerated is because Catholics believe that she is the Mother of God - the person who bore God in her womb and gave him his humanity.

Everything else flows from that. If you want to understand it more fully, Google the term “Theotokos.”

I think another reason Catholics made Mary and the saints more prominent is because in the early days of Christianity, the Church was trying to convert people whose current-former religions were more polytheistic, and females had been included in their beliefs. IOW, they needed something of a replacement. Veneration of saints was somewhat similar as certain saints became associated with some occupation or activity. Do you have a patron saint?

R52 that's a brilliant point. In fact the Early Church borrowed liberally from Pagan deities and from Pagan holiday celebrations for their feast days.

My middle school religion teacher (a nun) taught us the Church borrowed from pagan celebrations, even for Easter. (She’s the one who told us Joseph was important too.) She was a super-tough lady, but I think she was part of one of the communities of nuns scolded by Pope Benedict for caring too much about child poverty and not enough about the March for Life, so go her.

And Easter is still a celebration that's based on an astronomical event as opposed to being a set day, since it's celebrated on the first Sunday, following the first full moon, after the Vernal Equinox.

I thought confession was like this.

In some parishes it is, R56

I have never seen a confessional "open" while a mass was going on, and never heard of that in my life. I choose not to believe that statement in R32. Confession and Holy Eucharist (the Communion during the mass) are both sacraments, and the church would not allow both to go on simultaneously. Both sacraments require a priest, and there is a big shortage of priests all the time. (Yes, the sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Matrimony and Holy Orders also involve a Mass with a Eucharist - but those are special Masses and it is integrated into the Mass.) Typically a confessional is "open" during scheduled hours only. The church posts and publishes the hours. For churches that have a Saturday evening mass, saay at 5:00 pm, then confessions may be offered prior to that, such as3:30 to 4:30 for example. It is NOT required to go to confession again before every time you take communion. This would be impractical as many people take communion every Sunday and Holy Day. It is a little vague, but the stated requirement for taking Communion is only that you are in a "state of grace."

Full of grace!

This is one of the many young, cute priests on YouTube. He has interesting topics and takes on the Catholic Church, like this one. He has an interesting one debunking myths about the Church, which includes the role of Mary.

Worshipping Mary is a sin and only for common, servile trash.

Why would a guy who looks like R60 become a priest?

R2 Really? I thought the whole idea of Jesus was that H-d was busy and Zjesus had more time for our bullshit

[quote] I have never seen a confessional "open" while a mass was going on, and never heard of that in my life. I choose not to believe that statement in [R32].

Well, hop into your Delorean: set the clock for 1980s-1990s Miami, and then go find a clock tower with a lightning strike.

I've never heard of a confessional being open during mass. That would be very odd, especially as parishioners would hear your sins during quiet portions of the service. Funny to read this thread now. I'm at a very low point following a breakup and am considering going to confession to try to relieve myself of the guilt and remorse I feel for my part in torpedoing the relationship. I haven't been in at least 20 years, but think I'll give it a go. My therapist said it might not be a bad idea!

Are you gay?

R63 We were taught Jesus and his life and death is the ultimate sign of God’s love for humanity - “that he so loved the world that he sent his only Son…” etc.

It always felt pretty cold-blooded of God to me! But without Jesus we wouldn’t have the actually worthwhile messages of the New Testament, we’d be stuck with the Old Testament “burn in the fire of hell” stuff.

R62 I imagine some religious Catholics still go into the priesthood to "avoid" living life as gay men. That's not to say all are pederasts, although it could explain why many priests are alcoholics.

R60, I'm getting Paul Rudd vibes from that priest.

R67, yeah, at least there's a coherent message in the Gospels. They should be the official book of Christianity, not that mess of a historical agglomeration that is the Bible in its entirety. And Saint Paul can go fuck himself for what he did to that message.

I still don't think the divine part of the story of Jesus makes much sense, though.

here's a story OP: when going to confession you say an act of contrition which is: My God, I am sorry for my sins with all my heart. In choosing to do wrong and failing to do what is right, I have sinned against You whom I should love above all things, I firmly intend, with Your help, to do penance, to sin no more, and to avoid whatever leads me to sin.

There used to be an oil refinery where I live and it caught on fire. One guy was working on top of one of the tanks and was trying to get off the tank but his safety harness jammed and he couldn't get down. He was about a foot below the top so it was a ways down. He knew he was going to die so he said the act of contrition. When he said the last word the harness just opened up on it's own and dropped him to the ground and he survived unharmed. Our local newspaper carried the story.

Yes, the act of contrition means you are sorry and intend not to sin again. If you don't make a least somewhat sincere act of contrition you don't get forgiveness even with absolution and penance. The penance is to allay purgatorial punishment. I usually get one Our Father and one Hail Mary.

If I go I try to find the few remaining old hippie priests or Jesuits since they are pretty lenient. The last time I went to an old hippie priest I had to remind him that he had forgotten to assign a penance. He said "don't worry, life's a penance. "

Confession was open during the beginning of Mass in our Catholic Church until it was time for the Gospel. Once you reach a certain point in the Mass, you really must be present. Priests who did confessions would start about 30 minutes before Mass and shut it down a few minutes before Gospel.

I would love to go into a confessional booth and regale some dirty old priest with sordid details of my sexual sins until his grandpussy is absolutely sopping wet... do they still exist?

The Catholic Church I attend doesn’t even offer Confession as far as I can tell. And in the two years I’ve been going not once has the pastor mentioned abortion one way or the other.

[quote] It is a little vague, but the stated requirement for taking Communion is only that you are in a "state of grace."

It means not having committed a mortal sin, which deprives the soul of sanctifying grace.

I’ve never done this R74, but older people often just walk up to the priest and ask him to hear their confessions.

There's an extremely conservative Opus Dei (cult) parish in NYC where they hear confessions during mass. I think their idea is "You are all fucking sinners and you should be confessing all the time."

They have a bunch of Opus Dei priests on staff so they can do this.

Stick with the Jesuits, Friars Minor Franciscans, and old post-Vatican II hippie priests.

R36 Bitch stole my act.

I lost several IQ points reading the stupid and ignorant shit the anti-Catholics posted on here.

R79 ^

[quote] I've never heard of a confessional being open during mass. That would be very odd, especially as parishioners would hear your sins during quiet portions of the service.

It's in a different portion of the building.

In the church I grew up in, to the extreme right and left, there was a separate hallway flanked with statues of saints and candles. (If you would like a special intention, you drop 50 cents into a little collection box and light a candle.) At the far end of that was the enormous wooden--and I'm talking solid wood--booth for confession. And then next to that, was a separate smaller chapel. (Also, the bathroom was back there, too.) If you were in the booth, no one waiting in the line to enter the booth could hear you, let alone the parishioners in the church.

There is a place in the Mass where congregants ask forgiveness before communion. "Domine non sum dignus...Lord, I am not worthy, say the words and my soul shall be healed?" And at the beginning of Mass, the whole "Lord have mercy" thing. But the most significant ask is in the Confiteor which is said at the beginning of Mass:

I confess to almighty God and to you, my brothers [and sisters], that I have greatly sinned, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and in what I have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault; therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin, all the Angels and Saints, and you, my brothers, to pray for me to the Lord our God.[1]

All this sort of makes Confession superfluous. One of the recent Popes changed the rules so that Confession is always available if a person wants to go to the priest and confess. But the church saw it more as an opportunity for Spiritual Counseling. In the old days it was that weekly or monthly bullshit with the "I jacked off 12 times this week..." And the priest giving you a penance. But now the congregation all coming together at Mass confessing to being sinners and asking forgiveness is sufficient.

[quote] Why would a guy who looks like [R60] become a priest?

A few weeks ago Father Casey hosted hot daddy Bishop Parkes at his parish.

We had a young priest who looked like George Clooney in my parish growing up. He was there less than a year and then he ran away with one of the wives in the parish (seriously).

I was raised [italic]very[/ITALIC] low Episcopalian, but I understand this stuff relates to High queens (usually converts) as well.

r60 believe it or not some have higher aspirations than just fucking all the time.

They can still fuck Monday thru Friday, go to confession on Saturday, and say Mass on Sunday.

[quote]I would love to go into a confessional booth and regale some dirty old priest with sordid details of my sexual sins until his grandpussy is absolutely sopping wet... do they still exist?

" And he shot his load without touching himself, screaming like an unsaved whore at the gates of Hell itself ... shall I go on, Father?"

" ... Please."

I haven't been to confession since c. 1990. Should I go? Perhaps. But I do not regard anything having to do with my sexuality or same sex acts as sinful, but I would confess and ask for forgiveness for mistakes made in my relationships with other: self-centeredness, selfishness et al.

I view confession as therapy, and I'd have to chose which priest to go to...a Jesuit or a well-educated priest...not your average parish priest.

Mary and the saint are popular for veneration because of tradition, OP.

The Catholic church is the one and only true Christian church. All the others are not legitimate.

r83 Casey did a video with Fr. Patrick Tuttle(Swoon!) Tuttle also did a TED Talk.

R90 I am not a practicing Catholic but agree with you.

I consider myself a Catholic but rarely attend Mass. Since leaving NYC, it's difficult finding a parish with a priest with whom I am comfortable. I'm not close to any Jesuits or Franciscans and I have been disappointed by the Diocesan parish priests I have encountered (NJ/Bucks County, PA). I used to travel to a Franciscan Center where the priests were progressive and intelligent. Haven't formally been to confession for years but I do examine my conscience and self confess. I find it helpful. Self forgiveness is a powerful thing.

OP yes that is the origin of the phrase a " Hail Mary Pass".

Fr. Mike has gotten more animated with time. To the posters asking about confession.

I used to go to confession as a kid. I never could think of any sins to confess so I made them up.

"Please forgive me for I have sinned. Last week father I had nasty thoughts."

"I'm listening, go on..."

And now, an old Catholic school confession joke:

The janitor was sweeping the church floor during Confession hour, when suddenly the priest darts out of the booth. "Johnny" he says, "you're going to have to finish saying confessions. I'm having some horrible intestinal distress and I have to leave immediately". The janitor says, "Father, I don't know how to say confession". The priest says, "Don't worry, the sins are all posted on the wall and next to them the penances". And with that, he runs off as fast as he can to find a bathroom. The janitor goes into the confession booth, closes the door and a few minutes later, someone comes into the other side. The little grill opens and the confessing person says, "Bless me father for I have sinned. This is my sin. I have indulged in oral sex". The janitor peers at the list, but nowhere on it does he see oral sex. So without thinking, he opens the door of the confessional and spies an altar boy nearby. "Mikey" he says, "what does Father Murphy give for oral sex?". Mikey answers, "Gosh, I don't know about the other boys, but he gives me a Snickers bar".

R 97. Lame joke.

It's exactly like a glory hole at a video arcade.

Exactly.

"Is confession like it is on TV?"

Yup. Just like it is on RuPaul's Drag Race, Big Brother, Survivor--the whole kit and caboodle.

I think Saint Agatha is the patron saint of kit and caboodle.

"How often do you go to confession?"

Never. But just in case memorize that perfect contrition prayer for when you're on your deathbed and you're having second doubts.

" Do you really have to say a hail Mary or whatever and all is forgiven?"

One Hail Mary? Bitch, please. What kind of weak ass pennance is that? We had to pray whole fucking rosaries if you stole a goddamn candy bar .

We had to sit through a day long hellfire and brimstone harangue about mortal sin the day of prom. I think they overestimated the whole "let's not do it until prom night" scenario that was so popular in movies at the time.

"Also why is Mary such a big deal for Catholics?"

If it's good enough for Jackée Harry , it's good enough for us.

When I was a boy our confessional chamber had doors on them. Are they all open now?

Growing up in the Catholic church I have found that the women who practice the faith are what I would generously term Catholic Cunts. They say their Hail Marys and their rosaries and do everything they can to destroy their children to the point of even managing indirectly to kill some of them. I have come to the conclusion that the Blessed Mother is actually Satan in a della Robbia blue cape.

I get the impression that the priesthood is a way for their parents to explain why the sons aren't married.

R100 Exaggerate much? If you stole a candy bar, no priest would give you the entire rosary for a penance.

R60, I love Father Casey. He's a cutie and is very bright and compassionate.

I figured something like this was probably pretty common.

R2 are the types of responses I live for on DL! LOL

I don't know if it's been pointed out already but anyway. The particular term escapes me (since I think there's a particular term for this), but Mary's petitions are not rejected by Jesus, one example of this is Jesus miraculous turning of water into wine at Cana before His ministry began, and hence why Her effectiveness is held n such a high esteem.

Here's what I meant.

He has to do whatever she says:

I was raised Catholic but I find the idea confessing my sins to some dirty old man to be very distasteful. I will not do it!

There was a priest at my parish who was kind of a starfucker/social climber. He had lived a glitzy life and then decided to become a priest later on, for some reason. He did a lot of fundraising for the parish, which to him meant being wined and dined by the richer parishioners who would do things like donate nice furnishings for his living quarters. Then all the sudden, he kind of fell out of favor…it turns out that during marriage counseling sessions, he would ask very probing questions to the couple, demanding they do things like detail their sexual fantasies so he could “evaluate” them. There was a whisper campaign warning people not to do counseling with him. Creepy.

Sex should only be for procreation, there shouldn't be any fantasizing involved.

Yes you can fantasize about England.

I think I'm over the Church. I am still spiritual and I try to be a good person. I try to be humane, and treat people with respect and kindness. I try not to be petty or dishonest or cruel. But I am over the bullshit. I think the Catholic Church is inherently corrupt. I think the institution has always been corrupt ever since it evolved from a local cult and was coopted by ruthless manipulative leaders. It does nothing for me. I get more out of volunteering for a literacy program, or at the local food panty. I don't need someone who diddles little boys, telling me about sanctifying grace and begging God to forgive my sins so I can go to heaven. Fuck it. Just be good people. If you need the comfort of coming together as a group then join some prayer group or other shit.

This sums it up

I was never abused by a cute priest as a boy and I take it as a grave insult.

However I was picked up by a good looking priest in the Adonis and his parish was not very far from mine. We made great love under Jesus on the cross in his room in the rectory who blessed our union.

ThInk about it. Do we really need the authority of an institution to tell us to be decent? Or else?

[quote] Do we really need the authority of an institution to tell us to be decent?

You may not, but take a good look at the deplorables and the anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers.

Keep in mind it was the church that partly came up with the chivalric code during the middle ages to stop the constant violence, theft, killing, and rape.

And then they came up with the best innovation of all--send all the excessively violent men on a "crusade" far, far away--and hope they don't come back.

Right like the Deplorables and other odious creatures really are governed by a set of rules or a code of conduct set out by religious beliefs? LOLOL! Please. This county...and the rest of the world has millions of people who profess their believes in God, or Allah, or Jehovah, or Buddha, or Vishnu, or WTF ever, and the world is just as fucked up as it ever was. We may have become more efficient at it, but we still kill people or lie, cheat, and steal. We are fouling the environment and killing the planet, and we commit acts of genocide often in the name of some deity. It's been going on for centuries. The Church is pat of the problem and it always has been. Go back and look at church history. You just mentioned the Crusades? religious wars. Genocide. Popes in the Vatican had their own armies.

R115 Fuck you.

Wow, R122, did someone piss in your cornflakes? Thanks. You're comment made me laugh.

There is only one true Christian church and that is the Catholic church. All the others are not legitimate. To say nothing about all the non Christian "religions" which are just a complete joke. Who in their right mind would pray to some Buddha? What a joke!

I only did confession once, when I was about 11 & it was our “final” in CCD class. Unfortunately I missed the last class & somehow missed out on confessing! So I had to wait a year, when my sister made her first confession, & did mine then.

It was nothing like the movies. The priest sat across from me at a table, it was very laidback & casual. My sins then were gossiping & fighting with my sister (40 yrs later & not much has changed!). He told me to say some Hail Marys & Our Fathers as penance. I can’t remember how many of each but I think it was like 5x as many HMs.

Right after that my parents separated & we stopped going to church, & I kinda lost the faith. My sister became born again (Southern Baptist at one point but now nondenominational), Repub, but doesn’t like Trump.

R68 In rural parts of Croatia and especially Catholic part of Bosnia it is very common that a young boy joins the church because he is homosexual. These are his options, either church or closet.

R126 Where are you getting that information from?

I am Croatian.

You're lying. There is no information anywhere to show data confirming that. NUN lol

R129 I will ask the Diocese's Register of homosexual priests and monks to give me data in the written form to back my statement.

A few years ago a Catholic priest came out to his congregation and gave an interview to Advocate, I believe. In the interview he said he didn't realize he was gay until after he was ordained. I know that's a lie because he was having sex with a friend of mine while in the seminary, and because I've seen him at gay bars. He thinks he's a hero for coming out but has no problem lying about not knowing before ordination.

Can you combine Catholicism and Radical Faerie spirit?

Actually I believe the entire construct of religion was an attempt to explain phenomena that early man could not understand. I also have to wonder about...do not laugh... if the mythology is early man's way of explaining an alien presence. I did research papers long ago in college on comparative mythologies and their intersection with early religious beliefs, and I was surprised to discover how, in different cultures, whether it was Scandinavian, with Thor, or the Ancient Greeks or WTF ever, were similar.

Mythology and the Bible had a lot of similarities in the Old Testament. And all of them referenced the sky and specific phenomena. The ancient Egyptians seemed to have a particular affinity with things celestial. In any case, there were mystics running around in the deserts spouting off all kinds of things, so what happened with Jesus was not something unique or rare. And yes, the cult of Christianity was adapted and superimposed on pagan holidays, etc. after the Death of Christ.

Of course everything was politicized very quickly and armies and invaders from that time on used Christianity. religion to exploit, oppress and control. The pope had his own fucking army. Today we have science to navigate though a lot of things Early man could not explain. Personally when I look at the history of the institution of the Catholic Church they were some pretty scummy people. The institutional corruption over dozens of centuries, is pretty staggering.

I remember the very first time I, a life long Catholic, went to the Vatican for the first time it was actually scary. The power of that organization sort of hit you in a way that was a little bit terrifying and overwhelming. It was funny to me because I remember entering St. Paul's in London and really feeling I was in a spiritual place. Same with Westminster Abbey. But at the Vatican, my reaction was vastly different.

R133, plenty of the psalms read as if in tribute to extraterrestrial overlords.

From a NYT article:

Fewer than about 10 priests in the United States have dared to come out publicly. But gay men probably make up at least 30 to 40 percent of the American Catholic clergy, according to dozens of estimates from gay priests themselves and researchers. Some priests say the number is closer to 75 percent. One priest in Wisconsin said he assumed every priest was gay unless he knows for a fact he is not. A priest in Florida put it this way: “A third are gay, a third are straight and a third don’t know what the hell they are.”

It's tough to estimate the number of gay clergy but 1/3 seems low to me. I was in the seminary for 8 years and in the priesthood for 12, and I would say the number is closer to 50%. However, not all were aware or accepting of their own orientation; and not all are sexually active. The other half is straight but again, they're not all mature in terms of human sexuality or how to form relationships. Again, some are sexually active and some aren't.

Orientation and celibacy aside, the bigger question is how many of them are good or very good priests? It's just a guess, but in my experience, I'd guess 1/3 are good/very good ministers; the rest were weak leaders and uninspiring.

Today there are increasingly large numbers of seminarians/priests from other countries such as Poland, Nigeria, Philippines, etc. So my estimates above are from many years ago; not sure if the are reflective of today's clergy but my guess is Yes.

What bothers me about these %% is that the image of priests right now is that most of them are Pedos. And it is very easy for Society at large to make the short leap from Pedo Priests to the "Gays are perverts"

Unfortunately, they are pedos, much more inclined to male children. I don't know if it goes from one generation to next, so the priests that were abused as children start abusing the next generation of boys.

The sacrament of reconciliation is explained these days as a celebration of God's unending love for us. When we make a mistake or a bad choice (sin = "missing the mark") we can bring it to speech, and the words of absolution that the priest says, remind us that God desires to offer forgiveness and does not hold our mistakes against us. Like in the parable of the Prodigal Son....the son who requests his inheritance early and leaves his father's farm to squander his inheritance and then becomes poor, returns home, ready to beg his father to allow him to be a servant just so he can eat. Much to his surprise, when his father sees him coming, the father runs to greet him and embraces him. He then tells his servants to kill the best calf in order to have a celebratory meal, and the father gives him a ring to wear. His father says, "This son of mine who was lost has now been found." The message? God's love is as real as the love a good parent has for their child. God's love for us and his desire to forgive is extravagant and always available.

The sacrament of reconciliation is healing and is a reminder that we needn't beat ourselves up for the mistakes we make. So, we say we're sorry and the priest offers absolution and some sort of penance. People leave confessionals feeling as though a great burden has been lifted. That can't be all bad.

I'd be happy to take your confessions. The priest is busy but he said I could do it.

And priests don't "give" confessions or "take" confessions.

They "hear" confessions.

Yeah, I'm not the priest. I'm his deputy. Update: I'm happy to take your confessions-- except for r141's.

I haven't been to confession in years. But back in the old days you went into the confessional, knelt on a kneeler and then the priest opened this sliding window. It was tiny and it had a screen. The Priest didn't face you, he sat in pofile, and you did the "Bless me father for I have sinned, " then you recited a list of sins, "I lied 6 times, I cursed twenty times, I was mean twice, I slapped my kid brother, etc." Then the priest said some prayer like, "ego ti absolvo" and "Go and sin no more. For your penance say three rosaries." Something like that. It was designed in the early days of the church, to humiliate a person and subject him to the will of God (the Church.) The Confessional is small and dark like a closet. It's anonymous. And the Priest is bound by the seal of Confession so that even if you confessed to murder he could not tell anyone about it. But now, I just ty to be a good peson and ask God to help me do better. I don't bother with priests. Truthfully, I'm not much of a Catholic. I'd rather go to the Episcopal church.

The Catholic church is the one and only true Christian church. All the others are not legitimate, including the Episcopal church, which is not really a church.

My first & only confession wasn’t anything like in the movies. The priest sat next to me at a table, very casual, like we were just having a convo. I was 11 or 12 & my sins were gossiping & fighting with my sister.

Phew, so glad I’ve done a 360!

I went when I was a kid because my parents forced me to. I hated it. I remember when I was 15 I confessed to the priest that I’d had sex and he was so disgusted. It was weird. Imagine if I had told him it was with a boy!

r146 Was this your first confession at age 15?

R147 no. Just my most traumatic and final one. I refused after that and really drifted away from that cult.

OP says she has "a question for DL Catholics" but then asks 4 questions.

^ I was on a bus once and a lady (it was Long Island so just imagine the typical Long Island Italian 50 year old) came to the door and said "I just have one question" to the driver and then proceeded to ask endless complicated questions about bus routes and time tables. What an entitled cunt. I was sitting in front and finally shut it down with "Lady, everybody on this bus have places to go." The driver thanked me, he said he was not allowed to say that.

Typical entitled and selfish Long Islander.

I was unaware there were still Catholics anymore.

Do people really still go to a priest to absolve them off their sins? It seems so ridiculous

The Catholic church is the one and only true Christian church, all the others are not legitimate.

^ Thanks, Francis.

.....

Mary is more than just a saint but less than God. And yes, you can pray to her.

See? In ancient Greek mythology, she would be a Demi Goddess. Interesting how in Ancient Greek Mythology, Zeus would come down and fuck someone and impregnate them. So the belief that Mary was impegnated with Jesus by the Holy Spirit replicates this in Christianity and it also points to a hole because without Jesus thee was no trinity.It was God the Father and God the Holy Ghost but no Jesus until the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary.

[quote] and it also points to a hole because without Jesus thee was no trinity.It was God the Father and God the Holy Ghost but no Jesus until the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary.

Not exactly. We believe that one God eternally exists in three distinct "Persons"—Father (the Creator), Son (the Redeemer), and Holy Spirit (the Sanctifier). We say, "Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in [bold] the beginning [/bold], is now, and will be forever" because of the Christian belief that the second Person of the Trinity—the Son—has existed eternally. The Trinity didn't just come about 2,000 years ago. God has always been a triune God. You are confusing the historical Jesus with the Christ—the second Person of the Trinity.

[quote] it also points to a hole

While she may have been a virgin when Jesus went in, she sure wasn't a virgin after he came out

R157, thank you for displaying the complete gobbledygook that Christians believe

One of the only times I confessed was NOT how it was on TV. Confession is a requirement prior to your First Communion, the second of the three sacraments (the others were Baptism and Confirmation). The pastor sat me down in the rear office/crying room of the church. No partition and no confidentiality, just face to face with the asshole priest. Of course, I didn't say anything of consequence.

I despise the Catholic Church. A friend of mine told me that when he advised the local church leaders that he was abused while in the seminary, their response was: Well, we don't have a file on that priest so who's to say it happened - and they refused to speak with him any further. My friend was about 18-19 when it happened, so the statute of limitation has long passed, and the Church just ignored him. How cruel.

^ and by "we don't have a file on that priest" I mean they say there have been no prior claims of abuse.

Well R161, your friend could have been making it up. You can destroy someone's life with out proof.

R163 Sure, he could have but he didn't. I've known him for nearly 30 years and he told me about his experiences more than 20 years ago. He was in counseling for about 7 years but never advised the Church of what happened until a few years ago. Now knowing they won't do anything, he has to move on.

Another way you can destroy someone's life: Not believing him when he finally has the courage to step forward and tell the truth. Keep that in mind.

The Catholic Church needs to die.

Mother worship is among the oldest in every religion.

[quote] The Catholic Church needs to die.

So do you. And, happily, you will die long before the Catholic Church does.

R167 So will you, Trumpster.

I stopped going when I was 13. I remember seeing little children making their first confessions in an open area of the church away from the main congregation, but visible. The priest had tears streaming down his face trying not to laugh at what they considered sinful.

That's so odd that the Catholic Church would let their priests hear confessions right in front of an audience. WTF

[quote] [R167] So will you, Trumpster.

Yes, obviously. However, I am no Trumpster. What on earth would make you think that? Or is that just an insult that you use because you lack creativity and intellect. You're an idiot.

[quote] That's so odd that the Catholic Church would let their priests hear confessions right in front of an audience. WTF

That is common practice now. Think about it. Having children go off into a space where no one can see them is not done these days. Confessions are commonly held, as R169 said, "in an open area of the church away from the main congregation, but visible." No one can hear the children but they can still be seen. Are you a halfwit?

R11, Please. Everyone at least gets angry. Everyone covets. Everyone fibs. There's always some "sin" or other to confess!

As previously explained by others, Mother Mary (etymologically "sea"; hence, her color is always blue) is the Goddess, always a part of pre-Biblical religions. Astarte, Ishtar, Hera, etc.

Until patriarchy conquered the world, and the Male Power became THE God, and the revered "family unit" removed the female, removed the maternal, to become:

The Father, the Son, and the.....Holy Spirit. What's wrong with this picture?

Think of how modern culture has helped that unnatural concept along. Certainly the---ahem---Mother Church has, what with its disallowing of female priests.**

Then there is the more mundane world of television, with its many shows of unmarried/widowered/divorced fathers raising a family.

Henry VIII became Head (NPI) of the Anglican Church by divorcing one daughter's mother and killing another's. Erase the maternal; the Anglican Church (the Father Church, if you will) is okay with it.

**However, reverence for Mary as the Mother of Christ and His Intercessor is a main tenet of the RC Church. So some acknowledgment at least of the ancient Goddess remains.

Greg are you a Catholic? Awesome. Hugs!!!!!

R16- 0/10

[quote] Greg are you a Catholic? Awesome. Hugs!!!!!

Yes, I am a Catholic!

The Great Whore of Babylon = The Catholic Church

"Call ye no man Father for you have but one Father Who is in Heaven."

[quote] The Great Whore of Babylon = The Catholic Church "Call ye no man Father for you have but one Father Who is in Heaven."

Yeah, okay. Byeeee.

R171 Like Trump who felt the need to mock the disabled, you "happily" look forward to someone dying. God, what an idiot.

[quote]R67: But without Jesus we wouldn’t have the actually worthwhile messages of the New Testament, we’d be stuck with the Old Testament “burn in the fire of hell” stuff.

Hell isn't a concept from the Jewish testament. All of the 'burning hell' talk is from the New Testament.

[quote]R158: While she may have been a virgin when Jesus went in, she sure wasn't a virgin after he came out

Many authorities in the Church have insisted that Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth.

[quote]R176: Yes, I am a Catholic! —Greg

Greg, what's your take on Bishop Robert McManus of the Diocese of Worcester in this article?

R177 Please stop misinterpreting Matthew 23:9. The New Testament has many examples of the term “father” being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker. There are so many uses of “father” in the New Testament, that the objection to Catholics calling priests “father” logically must be wrong. (I wish fundamentalist pastors were commonly educated in theology.) Catholics for many, many centuries did not refer to their priests as "Father." The one exception being Irish Catholics. The first widespread use of calling ministers "Father" was by Methodists. Once Catholics made it a common practice, it all of a sudden became "unbiblical."

[quote]The New Testament has many examples of the term “father” being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker.

Kindly give us those examples, R183.

Your argument is predicated on what you insist Matthew 23:9 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠𝑛'𝑡 mean, while you never say, if not that, what it 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 mean.

[quote]Please stop misinterpreting Matthew 23:9... There are so many uses of “father” in the New Testament, that the objection to Catholics calling priests “father” logically must be wrong.

Nothing in the bible or pertaining to matters of faith can be justified by "logic."

Even if it were true that there's other uses of 'father' in the bible, there's no indication that Matthew 23:9 has any bearing on them, or that the author(s) of that passage was aware of any of the others. (Next to nothing in 'the bible' was written with an awareness of, or in deference to, any other parts of the bible. This is especially true of the New Testament.) For that author, the intention seems to have been not to call 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒 'father' - not the head of the Church, not a priest, not even one's own biological father (remember that there are passages mandating the rejection of one's own family in favor of following Christ, i.e. Matthew 10:27 and Luke 14:26). If one personally decides that Matthew 23:9 is unreasonable and cannot be obeyed, that's fine. In fact, 𝑎𝑙𝑙 believers have a few passages in the bible they choose to ignore, or otherwise don't observe. For Catholics, Matthew 23:9 is simply one of them. (Strictly speaking, Protestants don't follow it either, since they still call their own biological fathers by that appellation.)

[quote](I wish fundamentalist pastors were commonly educated in theology.)

They are, and the argument can be made that they study little else, since their focus tends to be polemical, combating the beliefs and practices of others. It's just not Catholic theology.

[quote]Catholics for many, many centuries did not refer to their priests as "Father." The one exception being Irish Catholics. The first widespread use of calling ministers "Father" was by Methodists. Once Catholics made it a common practice, it all of a sudden became "unbiblical."

The issue wasn't originally about priests, but about calling the head of the Church 'Father' (Greek πάππας, 'páppas', thence to "pope"), a practice that seems to have begun in the 3rd century, and made its essay into English in the 10th century.

Poisoned Dragon!

R183 has been nulified. Gratia.

-R177

I am awaiting a reasonable answer to the question I asked in R182.

C'mon, Greg/R176 - answer the question that I asked in R182: what's your take on Bishop Robert McManus of the Diocese of Worcester in this article?

"Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect..." (1 Peter 3:15b).

𝐁𝐢𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐩 𝐬𝐚𝐲𝐬 𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐥 𝐧𝐨 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐫 𝐂𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐜 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐟𝐥𝐲𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐋𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐌𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐫, 𝐏𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐟𝐥𝐚𝐠𝐬

A bishop has declared that a central Massachusetts school "may no longer identify itself as Catholic" because it refuses to remove Black Lives Matter and Pride flags it began flying on campus last year.

Arguing that the flags "embody specific agendas and ideologies (that) contradict Catholic social and moral teaching," Bishop Robert McManus of the Diocese of Worcester issued a decree on Thursday punishing the Nativity School of Worcester, a tuition-free private middle school that serves about 60 boys from under-resourced communities.

The decree prohibits the school from calling itself Catholic and prevents Mass and sacraments from taking place on school grounds.

In a statement, the school said it began displaying the flags in Jan. 2021 at the request of its students, the majority of whom, it noted, are people of color.

"As a multicultural school, the flags represent the inclusion and respect of all people. These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching," said the school.

According to the school, when McManus became aware of the flags in March of this year, he asked the school to take them down. Later that month, an unknown person removed them, the school said, “[causing] harm to our entire community. The flags were later raised again.

In May, McManus threatened to punish the school in an open letter, where he claimed the Church is “100% behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’" but accused “a specific movement with a wider agenda” of “co-opt[ing] the phrase.”

The school said it would seek to appeal the bishop's decision while continuing to fly the flags.

A spokesperson for the diocese did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment.

PoisonedDragon,

I think that what's happened in Worcester is a disgrace. I can't imagine what Bishop McManus is thinking and I don't imagine Francis would approve of the bishop's actions. I give credit to the Jesuits for doing the right thing and I'm glad that they will appeal to the Vatican. If there's any good news here it's that this won't disrupt the running of the school in any way, since they receive no money from the diocese and are independent from the diocese. But it's a real shame.

Thank you for your response.

Why did you ask, PoisonedDragon?

Protestant bitchez don't realize the Eastern Orthodox also 1 venerate Mary, 2 have confession and 3. Call priests "Father". All developed separately from the Latin church and sometimes prior. How do you bitchez deal with that?

[quote]R190: Why did you ask, PoisonedDragon?

Because of the way you answered in R167, which I found troubling, and the overall... stiffness of your answers regarding doctrine, which seemed somewhat humorless and pedantic. (I often come across that way myself.) R178 suggests intolerance or unawareness of other Christian viewpoints (such as Protestant). Because of R167 and R178, I began to suspect a correlation between yourself and PosterA - R90 / R113 / R124 / R144 / R152 / R163, and also PosterB - R79 / R98 / R122 / R174 / R175 / R183 (these latter two posters may be socks of the same person) whose posts reflect open bigotry. I wanted to know what sort of a Catholic you were, and resolved that the best way to find out was to ask you directly regarding a test issue. Would you take the side of the people or that of an authority figure speaking for the Church? (For me, R163's reflexive siding with the Church against a victim is terrible.) Would you be a Benedict XVI sort of Catholic or a Francis I sort of Catholic?

For now, I am relieved and satisfied with your answer - although you certainly seem to have thought long and hard before you gave it. I hope it really reflects your first and most genuine response to the issue, rather than merely what you thought might satisfy me.

Why did you decide to come out to the DL as a Catholic? You must have known the potential for trouble from your haters over such a personal disclosure.

Fuck the church, all of them.

Confession booths would make great glory holes. Just sayin.

^ Thanks, Father.

Why do people even believe this horseshit? It's ridiculous even on its face.

DL doesn't make anyone an atheist. That's your choice, Mary.

The same reason people look in the mirror and think they look 40 when they are 60.

True. The "Oh, Dear" fag frequently posts that he's in his 50s but looks 25. Please, granny.

[quote] Because of the way you answered in [R167], which I found troubling, and the overall... stiffness of your answers regarding doctrine, which seemed somewhat humorless and pedantic. (I often come across that way myself.) [R178] suggests intolerance or unawareness of other Christian viewpoints (such as Protestant). Because of [R167] and [R178], I began to suspect a correlation between yourself and PosterA - [R90] / [R113] / [R124] / [R144] / [R152] / [R163], and also PosterB - [R79] / [R98] / [R122] / [R174] / [R175] / [R183] (these latter two posters may be socks of the same person) whose posts reflect open bigotry. I wanted to know what sort of a Catholic you were, and resolved that the best way to find out was to ask you directly regarding a test issue. Would you take the side of the people or that of an authority figure speaking for the Church? (For me, [R163]'s reflexive siding with the Church against a victim is terrible.) Would you be a Benedict XVI sort of Catholic or a Francis I sort of Catholic? For now, I am relieved and satisfied with your answer - although you certainly seem to have thought long and hard before you gave it. I hope it really reflects your first and most genuine response to the issue, rather than merely what you thought might satisfy me. Why did you decide to come out to the DL as a Catholic? You must have known the potential for trouble from your haters over such a personal disclosure.

PoisonedDragon,

I stand by my response to R167. He will die before the Catholic Church does—as will we all. And I am happy about that.

Sorry that you find me humorless and pedantic. This doesn't bother me at all. I am well aware and respectful of other Christian viewpoints and my partner is a Protestant clergyman.

You ask "Would you take the side of the people or that of an authority figure speaking for the Church?" and I think it depends on what we're talking about. If we're talking about abuse, then of course I would support a lay person. It's not as simple as you want it to be. That said, I am not at all supportive of what R163 is saying.

I am a supporter of Pope Francis and hope that the College of Cardinals will elect someone as open to change during the next papal conclave.

You said:

[quote] For now, I am relieved and satisfied with your answer - although you certainly seem to have thought long and hard before you gave it. I hope it really reflects your first and most genuine response to the issue, rather than merely what you thought might satisfy me.

I honestly don't care if you are relieved and satisfied, now or ever, with my answer. And I find it annoying for you to say that I thought long and hard before responding. I have other things going on in my life and DL isn't always a priority. And there is nothing in me that feels the need to satisfy you.

That said, yes, that was my first and most genuine response. I have lots of Catholic connections in various schools and parishes and am part of a petition to get the metropolitan archbishop (O'Malley) to exercise some authority here. We already have over 15,000 signatures and are trying to get 10,000 more to show Bishop McManus and the press that Catholics interested in social justice and in upholding Catholic Social Teaching stand in solidarity with the students and Jesuits at Nativity School of Worcester.

[quote] Why did you decide to come out to the DL as a Catholic? You must have known the potential for trouble from your haters over such a personal disclosure.

I did not decide to come out on DL as a Catholic. I was writing anonymously and someone figured out it was me. Frankly, I've gotten less abuse over this than I have over my posting about cod, tomatoes, and prunes or my posting on afternoon tea.

The arrogance out here is quite something.

[quote]I stand by my response to R167. He will die before the Catholic Church does—as will we all. And I am happy about that.

I find that both glib and extremely mean-spirited. The Church has damaged many people, more than can be counted. Sometimes, even in modern times, it kills. People who have been harmed by it are entitled to their anger. You seem to feel entitled to curse them, adding to the harm the Church has done.

[quote]Sorry that you find me humorless and pedantic. This doesn't bother me at all.

I originally put that as part of a self-deprecating statement. I'm sorry that you didn't receive it in the way it was intended, but it now appears to have been more true than I knew.

[quote]I am well aware and respectful of other Christian viewpoints and my partner is a Protestant clergyman.

Your response at R178 does not bear that out. Either you weren't aware that the identification of the Roman Catholic Church as 'Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth' (per Revelation 17) is a classic Protestant Reformation viewpoint, or you didn't care; you weren't even curious as to why someone would say that. Far from being "respectful," you seem to want others dead.

[quote]I honestly don't care if you are relieved and satisfied, now or ever, with my answer.

I merely exercised utter candor with you. I'm sorry that you don't seem to value that, and that you didn't recognize this exchange as being the respectful offer of friendship it was intended to be.

[quote]And I find it annoying for you to say that I thought long and hard before responding. I have other things going on in my life and DL isn't always a priority.

I was aware of that possibility. However, you posted elsewhere on the DL during the space of that long pause before returning to the question.

[quote]That said, yes, that was my first and most genuine response. I have lots of Catholic connections in various schools and parishes and am part of a petition to get the metropolitan archbishop (O'Malley) to exercise some authority here. We already have over 15,000 signatures and are trying to get 10,000 more to show Bishop McManus and the press that Catholics interested in social justice and in upholding Catholic Social Teaching stand in solidarity with the students and Jesuits at Nativity School of Worcester.

Good for you. I wish you all success in that endeavor.

[quote]Frankly, I've gotten less abuse over this than I have over my posting about cod, tomatoes, and prunes or my posting on afternoon tea.

I've never understood why others on the board attack your food threads. I have no plans to join any stoning parties on that account, or over your decidedly less pleasant religious response.

[quote]The arrogance out here is quite something.

°–°

When the non believers are burning in the fires of hell, they will be saying "I wish I had believed" but it will be too late!

When believers aren't in heaven because there is no heaven, they'll be saying "I wish I had a lot more fun while I lived" but it will be too late!

R200/Greg: Have you left?

I'm still go to mass. Do I adhere to everything? Good God, of course not.

I haven't been to confession in decades, but I might go back to particular priests who understand sin as coming from problems in relationships with spouses/kin/friends and what not. It's a form of therapy in a way.

The best confession I ever made was in high school. I've told this story on here before. I went to a Jesuit high school. We were on retreat. Went to confession to a Jesuit and confessed that -- at age 16 or 17 what else? -- I masturbated. He told me it was not a sin as long as it never prevented me from forming meaningful relationships with others. From that day on, I never felt guilty about jerking off.

R205 You either misunderstood or the priest lied. Catholic teaching is that masturbation is a sin, dear.

All religions preach against masturbation.

R207, really? Many Protestant churches in Northern and Western Europe and some Protestant churches in Northern America and in Australia/New Zealand see masturbation as not a sin.

Of course, the Protestant spinoffs from the one true Christian church are not legitimate.

Of course, the reasons for the protestations were legitimate, bitch.